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Saturday, April 04, 2015

Their opinion doesn't count

Keep this literary interpretation in mind when you see SJWs in science fiction striking poses and attempting to dismiss the literary quality of the Sad Puppies-recommended works. Considering their complete lack of reading comprehension, they shouldn't even be allowed Hugo ballots. Or any utensils beyond plastic sporks.
#313 ::: rea :::April 03, 2015, 10:07 AM:
Nancy Lebovitz @300: 'I think that if people hadn't been aware of VDs history, the reaction to his nominated short story would have been more like "why is this mediocre thing on the ballot?" rather than "kill it with fire".'

I read the story last year. I thought it was deeply, deeply racist, with "elves" being a stand-in for blacks and other minorities. Elves don't have souls. Most of them commit atrocities. One elf manages to set aside his atrocity-committing tendencies, adopt the traits of human civilization, and even make friends with humans ("some of my best friends are elves"), but it doesn't help him--he's still soulless--and moreover all of the humans who have befriended him get massacred by the evil elvish majority. Moral--association with members of other races is at best futile, and likely to be dangerous.
Now, if you've read "Opera Vita Aeterna", or any of my fiction set in Selenoth, for that matter, you will recognize that this particularly reading of the Hugo-nominated novelette isn't merely wrong or stupid, it is downright insane.

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68 Comments:

Anonymous Smokey April 04, 2015 10:19 AM  

isn't merely wrong or stupid, it is downright insane.

It's also quite telling.

Elves a stand-in for blacks and other minorities because they commit atrocities?

Oops.

Blogger Nate April 04, 2015 10:20 AM  

i'm amazed she was able to stop licking the windows long enough to type that...

Anonymous RL April 04, 2015 10:28 AM  

She must have ingested a large quantity of lead based paint when growing upl

Blogger JACIII April 04, 2015 10:30 AM  

A fine example of the left's self-corrupted reasoning facility. Every time you tell a lie it reinforces false reasoning - this is the result.

Do it enough times and you will eventually lie when you think you are telling the truth and, as a consequence, your ability to discern and draw logical conclusions will fail leading to bizarre assertions and a false intuition.

They have destroyed their own minds.

Anonymous Salt April 04, 2015 10:31 AM  

That reading's hysterical. Off their meds comes to mind.

Anonymous trev006 April 04, 2015 10:32 AM  

I think it's entirely reasonable. After all, if there's one accurate stereotype of black Americans, it's that of the insanely sophisticated and intelligent archmage who is functionally immortal.

Uh- you were trying to imply that elves have a less advanced civilization than humans in the books, right? I might have skimmed that part.

Anonymous fish April 04, 2015 10:33 AM  

I read the story last year. I thought it was deeply, deeply racist, with "elves" being a stand-in for blacks and other minorities.

Projection....thy name is Nancy Lebovitz.

Anonymous The other robots (who read Opera Vita Aeterna and liked it.) April 04, 2015 10:37 AM  

Elves a stand-in for blacks and other minorities because they commit atrocities?


I am reading Hannibal by Theodore Dodge. I came across this passage early on:

The Africans were peculiarly tough, faithful and uncomplaining. They were hideously cruel to their prisoners and hard to restrain from massacre; ...

Anonymous Ain April 04, 2015 10:37 AM  

Angels don't have souls either. Her leap that it must be referring to blacks is hilarious.

Anonymous Smokey April 04, 2015 10:47 AM  

I am reading Hannibal by Theodore Dodge. I came across this passage early on:

The Africans were peculiarly tough, faithful and uncomplaining. They were hideously cruel to their prisoners and hard to restrain from massacre; ...


Not challenging black people's inclination to violence. Merely pointing out a hypocritical slip of the tongue by an SJW that would, no doubt, throw a temper tantrum if you so much as implied such a possibility...

Blogger Foster April 04, 2015 10:51 AM  

"...and moreover all of the humans who have befriended him get massacred by the evil elvish majority."

Actually, they get massacred by goblins or orcs (I can't remember which). That's not just an insane interpretation. It's factually incorrect.

Blogger rcocean April 04, 2015 10:51 AM  

Nancy Lebovitz - SJW, honorary black person, and expert in Christian theology.

Blogger Josh April 04, 2015 10:51 AM  

Can't elves be elves? Not everything has to be a stand in for something else. And if you want to read it the way these idiots are, the elves are CLEARLY a stand in for gingers.

Blogger ajw308 April 04, 2015 10:58 AM  

Noooo, the elves are clearly representative of either homosexuals or soccer players.

Anonymous MrGreenMan April 04, 2015 11:09 AM  

I thought everybody understood that, starting with Tolkein and all that came after, elves are angels.

Blogger IM2L844 April 04, 2015 11:19 AM  

W.T.F. This goes to show that a vicarious education isn't as good as the real deal.

Blogger Mad Dok Rob April 04, 2015 11:27 AM  

I loved Opera. I have loved all the Selenoth stuff. I have no idea where they get this stuff. Sometimes I wish there was an English-to-SJW dictionary so I could see the crazy stuff they read into everything.

Anonymous Heh April 04, 2015 11:30 AM  

Methinks Nancy is projecting her own feelings about blacks onto Vox.

Anonymous Aeoli April 04, 2015 11:32 AM  

Even for a delusional idiot, it would be difficult to read the ending and conclude the massacre was perpetrated by elves. Not impossible- I can imagine someone skimming over the physical description of whatsisname the demon, and then skipping the last 30 pages or so (delusonal idiot, recall). Anyway, she clearly read somebody else's summary.

Blogger Anthony April 04, 2015 11:36 AM  

It's not Nancy Leibowitz who says that Opera is racist, it's "rea". Nancy just thinks it's mediocre. Or at least in that comment.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 04, 2015 11:37 AM  

Wow. That is downright delusional.

Anonymous Strange Aeons April 04, 2015 11:41 AM  

JACIII - I remember once reading a hypothesis on that. It wasn't a PubMed entry or anything, but well articulated nonetheless. It essentially proposed that habitual dishonesty rewires the neural pathways until the person could no longer differentiate between truth and lie. The article cited lawyers & such, not liberals per se, but the extension goes without saying. Wish I could remember the site, pretty sure I found it via the Dread Ilk anyways. From the compulsive dishonesty to the rampant psychological projection, the SJW mind certainly is a malevolent medley of insanity and vitriol.

Blogger Huggums April 04, 2015 11:44 AM  

Absurd. I did think the orcs might've fit that bill, but even so, you note in the book that there are some orcish converts. This person read the exact opposite of what was written. Assuming they read at all.

Anonymous pseudotsuga April 04, 2015 11:49 AM  

So we need to be certain to downgrade books written by rapists (including self-professed McRapists) and child molesters (MZ Bradley). After all, if we were aware of certain authors' histories, then we certainly can't judge their writing fairly!

Blogger darkdoc April 04, 2015 11:55 AM  

I've mentioned to my wife many times - they lie even when they don't need to.

It's an identifying feature, a base characteristic of them.

There really must be changes in brain function.

Anonymous fish April 04, 2015 11:57 AM  

Anthony April 04, 2015 11:36 AM


Good catch! Redirected!

Anonymous Stilicho April 04, 2015 12:04 PM  

It reads as if she didn't actually read the story, but read some other people's negative reviews and extrapolated from them.

Anonymous The other robot (who votes) April 04, 2015 12:07 PM  

The announcement is not up yet!

Blogger IM2L844 April 04, 2015 12:07 PM  

Anyway, she clearly read somebody else's summary.

This is how SJWism in-grouping works. I have to admit that, for the uninitiated, reading Vox Popoli can be conducive to conclusion jumping and, with a mixture of intentional abrasiveness and subtle nuance, raises the requisite attention paying to a level that's not necessary across most of the webernet. It takes some getting used to. You're not going to get it from merely accepting the opinions of the perpetually offended cursory readers who are ideologically hypersensitive.

Anonymous The other robot (who votes) April 04, 2015 12:08 PM  

OK, they say at noon PDT ...

Blogger Zimri April 04, 2015 12:11 PM  

re Dodge and "Hannibal": "African" during the Punic / Greek era meant "Berber", not "Black".

Anonymous NorthernHamlet April 04, 2015 12:21 PM  

She seems to have totally missed the point that supports her most: "elves" rhymes with "themselves" which being soulless, is the author's ironic jab at their lack of agency.

I can read!

Blogger J Thomas April 04, 2015 12:21 PM  

SJWism is caused by child abuse. If you want to create a world of Christian/Jew-hating, self-loathing mindless anti-religion/anti-science psychopaths, all you have to do is really fuck up your kids.

For some reason, God has allowed humans to be able to severely interrupt human brain development, by allowing humans to severely abuse children (and thus permanently destroy their future brain development and eventual adulthood).

This is undeniably caused by child abuse, and as such inevitably creates a generation of God-hating monsters.

Do the future a favor, and stop fucking up your kids.

Anonymous T14 April 04, 2015 12:27 PM  

And here I took the elves to pretty clearly represent the white elite. Down to the lacking fertility rates.

I've got nothing on the dwarves.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 04, 2015 12:29 PM  

Two and half hours until the ball drops.

I have starved myself for a day so that I may all the more savor the sweet, sweet taste of SJW tears when the short ballot is announced today.

BWAAAA-HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!

Blogger Bard April 04, 2015 12:40 PM  

"JACIII - I remember once reading a hypothesis on that. It wasn't a PubMed entry or anything, but well articulated nonetheless. It essentially proposed that habitual dishonesty rewires the neural pathways until the person could no longer differentiate between truth and lie. The article cited lawyers & such, not liberals per se, but the extension goes without saying. Wish I could remember the site, pretty sure I found it via the Dread Ilk anyways. From the compulsive dishonesty to the rampant psychological projection, the SJW mind certainly is a malevolent medley of insanity and vitriol."

Do thoughts have mass and exist in real time/space? I propose they do. They exist as electrochemical markers mapped onto the brain neurons. How do you recall 2+2=4? It is something you learned. As you bring it to mind, you set off a chain reaction that runs through the brain and spinal chord and brings it to the forefront of thought; but it is there, permanently. When does that electrochemical process project out of your head and into someone else's reality? When you speak it and it becomes traveling sound waves and makes an impact on their eardrums and then begins the electrochemical process in their mind to form a memory. Again, imprinted and implanted on a neuron. Hear the same info enough, and it gets stored into long term memory permanently altering that neuron forever (I call it the 2+2 neuron). Now, listen to lies long enough and you hard wire your brain with false information. Speak lies often enough, and you hard wire another. View pornography and you optically imprint sinful images so it is not just the spoken word. What is occurring is a real physical corruption of the mind with SIN. That is why we are exhorted to put on the mind of messiah and renew our minds in multiple places in scripture. Until the we begin mapping our minds with truth through the indwelling of scripture, we continue further and faster towards what Vox said: insanity. Now this is not a perfect illustration of the principle, but one that I contemplate often as I encounter people who are not clinically insane, but morally.

Blogger Bard April 04, 2015 12:42 PM  

meant indwelling of holy spirit, not scripture...oops

Anonymous Aeoli April 04, 2015 12:50 PM  

Re: IM2L844, are you addressing me or the peanut gallery? I've been around for a little while now.

Re: Strange Aeons,

Pathological lying- lying when it doesn't make sense- is a real thing. I've seen it and it's a either a dangerous or pitiable condition, depending on the liar's IQ. Like people with stutters, such a liar has to develop coping mechanisms and go through mental contortions to tell the truth and subdue their first impulse.

Sometimes it's self-inflicted, dunno how often. Hard to miss over time, especially if the person is low-functioning.

Anonymous Roundtine April 04, 2015 12:54 PM  

She did exactly the same thing as the guy who went to see Lord of the Rings and said the movie is racist because the orcs are obviously blacks.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 04, 2015 12:58 PM  

Not quite. The demon (and possibly those with him) slaughtered everyone. I didn't see the part where demons and elves were the same though.

Anonymous Stilicho April 04, 2015 1:04 PM  

@Nate: licking windows is a symptom... licking lead paint was probably the cause...

Blogger Brad Andrews April 04, 2015 1:04 PM  

I skimmed some of the comments on the linked site. Most comments are of the "they disagree with me so they must be bad," but they actually allowed a couple of posts to stay that questioned their logic and made the exact points that are the flawed part of their arguments.

I didn't see the discussion of the work itself, but noting whose site it is means commenting would be relatively worthless.

It wouldn't matter how long I had read science fiction, probably longer than many of them had been alive. The fact I didn't like what they called science fiction would instantly disqualify them, along with my comments here and general agreement with most of what is said here.

People really are idiots.

Blogger Noah B April 04, 2015 1:05 PM  

Wait -- the elves didn't symbolize Jews?

Anonymous Strange Aeons April 04, 2015 1:12 PM  

Interesting. About 3 or 4 years ago I met a fellow who runs a personal polygraphing service in this state and one over, and I inquired of him as to whether he could ferret out a pathological liar as well as the cliched nervous sweaty liar, since they are more practiced. Apparently he could.

Think I'm getting off topic though, all apologies to any vibrant elves in the room.

Anonymous Fp April 04, 2015 1:13 PM  

"Methinks Nancy is projecting her own feelings about blacks onto Vox."

You know it.

Blogger Huggums April 04, 2015 1:16 PM  

The demon who used to Bessarias' familiar recruited goblins to massacre the monks I believe.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis April 04, 2015 1:22 PM  

I read the story last year. I thought it was deeply, deeply racist, with "elves" being a stand-in for blacks and other minorities. Elves don't have souls.

Not that Vox actually had an analogous human race in mind when writing the elves, but If I had to pick any actual race to liken the elves to then it certainty wouldn't be Africans. Non of the historic stereotypes about Africans fits the bill. If you had to pick one then I think it would have been either the Chinese or Japanese. Ancient civilization that is inscrutable to the Amorrans and Savondirs, insular, xenophobic, very strong sense of honor and adherence to traditions. Even from a pop culture standpoint her criticism makes no sense, the only time I ever heard a quip about another race not having a soul was a joke in South Park about the Japanese.

Blogger IM2L844 April 04, 2015 1:22 PM  

Re: IM2L844, are you addressing me or the peanut gallery? I've been around for a little while now.

No. I wasn't aiming at anyone in particular. Just pointing out that most of the people that complain about Vox only have a superficial understanding. I've been guilty myself of not paying close enough attention and thinking Vox was saying something he actually wasn't saying. Whether or not Vox does this by design is up for debate. Personally, I think he does.

Anonymous Alexander April 04, 2015 1:22 PM  

Noah,

All will be revealed when during the civil war, citizen of Amorr begin to blame the Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelves.

Anonymous WRI April 04, 2015 1:30 PM  

They know that in their stories they put in messages that agree with and attempt to push forward their innermost treasured beliefs (these sadly being their political positions), thus Vox must do the same. And as they are certain of, Vox is crazy racist. So they take what MUST be the theme (MAXIMUM RACISM GOGO) and try to shoehorn it into his story.

I pity them and offer my prayers for them.

Anonymous Dan in Tx April 04, 2015 1:34 PM  

"I thought it was deeply, deeply racist, with "elves" being a stand-in for blacks and other minorities."

Since Vox recently pointed it out, it's getting easier and easier to spot the, "So what you're saying is..." or "So in other words..." tip off. Now I realize this was written by a woman and not a Gamma male but still, there it is. Quite telling and easy to spot when you learn to look for it.

Anonymous Daniel April 04, 2015 1:42 PM  

Don't make Elrond cut a bitch!

Anonymous Mr. Colbert April 04, 2015 1:46 PM  

I used to push a voting slate for everything from NASA to bridges in Hungary, and the SJW's couldn't get enough of it! Dunno what you guys are doing wrong.

Blogger GK Chesterton April 04, 2015 1:59 PM  

Let's try this again...possible spamming?...elves aren't blacks in his stories I thought they were post-colonial whites. They act like them. In fact all of the stories are somewhat anti-colonial.

Blogger GK Chesterton April 04, 2015 1:59 PM  

And elves in Tolkien are not angels. The Istari are a closer match but even they fall short of the description of angels.

Anonymous Mike M. April 04, 2015 2:10 PM  

Good grief. Especially since Summa Elvetica makes it clear that Selenoth elves are considered to have souls.

Blogger James Dixon April 04, 2015 2:13 PM  

> Projection....thy name is Nancy Lebovitz.

> Methinks Nancy is projecting her own feelings about blacks onto Vox.

Pretty much, yes. Though as someone pointed out, that seems to be a reply to Nancy, not Nancy herself.

> Assuming they read at all.

> It reads as if she didn't actually read the story, but read some other people's negative reviews and extrapolated from them.

I'd say that's at least a 50-50 chance, yes.

Blogger Cee April 04, 2015 3:58 PM  

And here I took the elves to pretty clearly represent the white elite. Down to the lacking fertility rates.
And women in combat hampering their effectiveness.

This review is hilariously absurd.

Anonymous Red Comet April 04, 2015 4:09 PM  

I read the story last year. I thought it was deeply, deeply racist, with "elves" being a stand-in for blacks and other minorities...moreover all of the humans who have befriended him get massacred by the evil elvish majority.

Well, which is it?

Should have only let one headmate write up the paragraph instead of all of zxhem.

Anonymous Ain April 04, 2015 4:21 PM  

trev006: I think it's entirely reasonable. After all, if there's one accurate stereotype of black Americans, it's that of the insanely sophisticated and intelligent archmage who is functionally immortal.

Morgan Freeman, also known as Black Gandalf.

Anonymous Koanic April 04, 2015 8:07 PM  

You guys are missing the point by engaging the dialectic. She's been mudsharking and guiltily solipsized it into an insinuation that extra-racial fraternization carries increased risk of violent death.

For all that the rabbit appellation is fun for K's to say, I think the AC's cross-dressing squid is a more vivid sociobiological analogue. Betraying the species for individual genetic gain.

I'd say give her points for crimestop for failing to notice that blacks can't be superior, but perhaps it's just the generic female male status evaluation idiocy misconstruing American black unstifled entitlement as a tribal status marker.

Anonymous Alexander April 04, 2015 11:06 PM  

Have these people never watched South Park? If there's a serious issue as to whether the elves have souls, then the only logical parallel is either gingers or Japanese.

Anonymous Alexander April 04, 2015 11:08 PM  

That being said, I would love to see someone write a book about a very sophisticated, highly intelligent, advanced culture that had a demographic problem due to the women desiring/needing to remain chaste... and then the author to come out and be all "yep, them's a representation of black folk."

Anonymous Tom April 04, 2015 11:31 PM  

I always thought the elves were the stand ins for the highly intelligent and productive atheists who have descended into a depraved culture due to their lack of belief in an overall point to life.

I think it was the highly intelligent and productive parts that made me sure I was reading a FANTASY novel...

Anonymous Koanic April 05, 2015 12:51 AM  

You guys are missing the point by engaging the dialectic. She's been mudsharking and guiltily solipsized it into an insinuation that extra-racial fraternization carries increased risk of violent death.

For all that the rabbit appellation is fun for K's to say, I think the AC's cross-dressing squid is a more vivid sociobiological analogue. Betraying the species for individual genetic gain.

I'd say give her points for crimestop for failing to notice that blacks can't be superior, but perhaps it's just the generic female male status evaluation idiocy misconstruing American black unstifled entitlement as a tribal status marker.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 05, 2015 1:24 AM  

Now, if you've read "Opera Vita Aeterna", or any of my fiction set in Selenoth, for that matter, you will recognize that this particularly reading of the Hugo-nominated novelette isn't merely wrong or stupid, it is downright insane.

Indeed, like suggesting C.S. Lewis of all people was racist because the Calormenes had dark skin.

Lewis, who portrayed an interracial marriage in children's fiction (Aravis and Shasta/Cor in "The Horse and His Boy").

Lewis, who had a Calormene enter the New Narnia at the end of "The Last Battle".

Surely nobody would believe LEWIS to be a racist, of all people, right?

Oh, wait...

https://malcolmthecynic.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/the-bigotry-of-c-s-lewis/

Anonymous Ain April 05, 2015 2:05 AM  

Alexander: "Have these people never watched South Park? If there's a serious issue as to whether the elves have souls, then the only logical parallel is either gingers or Japanese."

Or underwear stealing gnomes.

1) Steal underwear
2) ?
3) Get rich

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown April 06, 2015 1:38 PM  

Oh, I don't know. L'Ithriel Eva-Bryte is a much better hip-hop name than Iggy Azalea or Nikki Minaj. Title of album "Keepin' It L'IthREAL".

Yeah, Ms. Lebovits is clearly on to something. Elf-Hop would be a vast improvement over what passes for Top 40 these days.

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