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Wednesday, April 29, 2015

THEY are in retreat

I told you that George RR Martin has lost the plot. After publicly declining the very debate for which he called, he actually repeated his call for what he already rejected:
Here's an idea -- debate the issue without epithets. Namecalling, whether with old epithets or new ones, is no substitute for actual discussion.
Oh, come on, you cowardly sad sack of an SJW. I gave you the opportunity to debate the issue. Honestly. Civilly. Rationally. You declined. So, guess what that leaves? And while we're at it, just get it over with and hand the books over to Brandon Sanderson or Joe Abercrombie to finish already.

As Martin's befuddled post demonstrates, it is readily apparent that science fiction's CHORFs aren't entirely confident they are winning anymore. Jim Hines steals yet another page from John Scalzi's playbook, this time playing the classic "hey, forget my past attacks on you, we're all just friends who happen to disagree" card:
I am so damn tired of the insistence on shoving everyone and everything into an artificial “Us vs. Them” framework. The Puppies thing is just the latest example. The only clearly defined “side” in this mess is the puppies themselves, and even that’s a slippery argument. Is Theodore Beale of the Rabid Puppies on the same side as Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia? Correia suggests they are: “Look at it like this. I’m Churchill. Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.” But what about the commenters? Can people support some of what the puppies said they wanted — say, greater awareness of tie-in work in Hugo nominations — without having to swear allegiance to all things rabid?
There is nothing artificial about it. The main reason SJWs were successful in infiltrating the science fiction establishment and imposing their ideology on it was due to their Fabian strategy of denying any conflict was taking place. Their entryism depended entirely upon stealth and plausible deniability. That's why the single most important aspect of both #GamerGate and #SadPuppies was the way in which it was made perfectly clear to everyone that there are, in fact, two sides.

There are those who want to be able to define what is permissible to read, write, design, develop, play, think, and say, (SJWs) and those who wish to read, write, design, develop, play, think, and say whatever the hell they happen to please. (Everybody else)

Jim Hines isn't "so damn tired" of "an artificial Us vs. Them framework". He is simply alarmed that their most effective tactic has been exposed and rendered impotent.
 I keep coming across commentary and arguments that assume you have to be either pro-puppy or anti-puppy. In broader discussions, you’re either us or you’re the enemy. Left or Right. Puppy or CHORF. Lately, I’m seeing more accusations of blacklists and gatekeepers and people’s careers being hurt because of their politics or beliefs or whatever, because some publishers are for Us and some are for Them, and you can’t succeed in this business without swearing allegiance to the Evil Gun Nuts of Baen or the Evil Tree-hugging Lib’ruls of Tor. To be honest, that last bit is funny as hell.
His point might be more convincing if we didn't have Charles "15 Hugo Nominations" Stross on record warning me about the danger to my career if I didn't stop writing my op/ed column and start sucking up to the then-Toad of Tor and Tor Senior Editor PNH. Or testimony from everyone from Larry Correia to Sarah Hoyt. You certainly can succeed in this business by fighting the establishment, but that doesn't mean the establishment doesn't exist or that it won't attack you. It's not like everyone doesn't know that opinions deemed badthink can not only ruin your chances of getting published by an SJW-dominated publishing house, but get them to conspire to have the SFWA Board vote to "expel" you.

I know some of the Sad Puppies desperately want there to be some kind of Social Justice Warrior Conspiracy that’s been manipulating the Hugos and persecuting them for years, because that creates a simple narrative with them as the feisty rebels striking a blow against the Evil Empire. But there’s been zero evidence for it. Correia himself said he’d audited the Hugos a few years back and found no sign of anything suspect.
The lesson, as always, SJWs ALWAYS lie. Correia found no sign of anything suspect in the ballot-counting by the WorldCons. He did not admit there was no SJW conspiracy. A very dishonest switcheroo by McCreepy.
Part of my anger at Torgersen and Correia is because I feel like they deliberately encouraged this Us vs. Them mentality in order to win support and votes. They invented an evil cabal of “Them,” then rallied people to join their side against this fictitious enemy. Which only increases the abuse and the hatred. And please note: I’m angry at them as individuals, not because they’re conservative, or because of their views on gun control, or because they might have a different religious belief than I do. I’m angry because whatever problems were out there, these two individuals actively made them worse, and they hurt a great many people in the process. Themselves included.

Fandom is not two distinct sides. It’s a bunch of people who like things in a really big genre, a genre that has guns and spaceships and dinosaurs and dragons and magic and manly men and genderfluid protagonists and grittiness and erotica and humor and hard-core feminism and sexism and racism and hope and stereotypes and anger and messages and politics and fluff and were-jaguars and superheroes and so much more.

Criticism is not war. Choosing not to read or support things you don’t like isn’t censorship. Liking something problematic doesn’t make you a bad person.
He shouldn't be angry at Brad and Larry, who both seriously attempted to fix the Hugo system. He should be angry at me, because I have successfully exposed that which Hines and the other SJWs desperately wanted to keep hidden, for the same reason they hid their history of embracing child molesters like Breen, MzB, and Kramer, to name a few. But we didn't make anything worse, any more than Deidre Saoirse Moen raped any children when she helped bring MzB's behavior to light.

Criticism isn't war. But taking over the SF establishment for ideological purposes is war. Of course they don't like the fact that an opposition has arisen and is fighting back. That's why they tried to discredit and disqualify and defenestrate me 10 years ago. They correctly sensed a potentially dangerous enemy and attempted to marginalize me. But I'm still here, and more importantly, I am not alone.

That's why they are suddenly declaring there is no war. But it's too late. The mask has been ripped off and too many have seen the true face of the SJWs.... as Dave Freer of the Mad Genius Club notes their recent behavior:
But seriously, what have the AP [Anti-Puppies] tried so far, and what success has it brought them?  They’ve brought out media attacks accusing the Puppies and nominees of being sexists, racists, misogynist, homophobes – the usual made-up get out of jail cards rubbish with no substance and some funny twists – we’re all white Mormon men. Especially Sarah Hoyt. And a twenty year bi-racial marriage makes Brad Torgersen a racist. Then the voters weren’t real fans but slaves who voted to order (which was a true PR disaster, angering a huge circle of people).

Then there were the ‘you’ll never work in this town’ again threats to careers and reputations – with the Nielsen-Haydens and David Gerrold shrieking ‘who will rid us of these troublesome puppies?’ and providing precise instructions of what to do. Not a ‘blacklist’ of course (slither). Just things that people would do, like exclude them from publications, cons and reviews. Unlike the puppies, who actively said that their people shouldn’t, for example, boycott Tor, no such criticism came out of the AP. We’ve had people inform us we’re mad (at great length. It was funny, and very revealing – about the bat-sh!t loony writer), and bad, and just downright unfeeling to poor David’s tender sensibilities. Some AP camp-follower called Jane Carnall of Edinburgh, who has written a few opinion pieces in ‘The Guardian, went off and followed the instruction issued on ‘Making Light’ and started issuing fake 1 star reviews on Amazon on John Wright’s stories.

Oh and the cheering announcement that they will ‘No Award’ the Pups nominees out of existence, and we’ll never ever win Hugos. The latest (from a chorus, including Scalzi) has been that if the puppies and nominees do not immediately and forthwith viciously denounce Vox Day they will declare us stupid dupes and one with him. Deserving of his fate too. I’ve kind of lost track of the ‘if you do’ offer. Maybe we’ll be allowed to live out our short miserable lives like penitent whores in a nunnery, being kindly permitted to clean their chamber-pots with our tongues. Think for yourselves what you’d do given that choice: live free and maybe win or die, or surrender and live as a second – or third or fifth class citizen, continually used as a kicking boy?

And if the AP told me otherwise, I wouldn’t believe a word, given their track record. The AP really have credibility issues they need to work on.
Never believe an opponent who tries to tell you the game hasn't even started yet. And never believe an enemy who tells you that because there is no war, you should stop shooting at him and lay down your arms. Remember, rabbits only win when wolves refuse to fight.

Interestingly enough, after an amount of his usual meandering, R. Scott Bakker reaches much the same conclusion:
 The fact that Beale managed to pull this little coup is proof positive that science fiction and fantasy matter, that we dwell in a rare corner of culture where the battle of ideas is for… fucking… real.
Only it's not a rare corner. The battle of ideas is ongoing and everywhere throughout the culture. It's in Games, it's in Science Fiction, it's in Comics, and it's in TV and Movies. And for the first time in decades, those who favor liberty are on the offensive.

Labels: ,

224 Comments:

1 – 200 of 224 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Anonymous April 29, 2015 2:12 AM  

How do I set myself up to comment without using anonymous.

Anonymous Boogeyman April 29, 2015 2:17 AM  

Being a barbarian is a blast. Enough talk already. Let's get to the fun part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9WHasIZk0

Blogger Brad Andrews April 29, 2015 2:21 AM  

Recognizing it matters should be a small step from realizing many don't believe the party line.

Blogger Noah B April 29, 2015 2:33 AM  

I never would have thought I would give a damn about what's going on in the world of SFF literature awards, but it's so exciting to see our side aggressively playing offense for a change instead of debating how quickly we should retreat.

Blogger Poor Guy April 29, 2015 2:37 AM  

Anony - Don't you have a Google Account?

Anonymous Anonymous April 29, 2015 2:43 AM  

I do not have a Google account that I know of. Google is my homepage when I go online though. Would creating a Google account just to comment here intermittently be wise and secure?

Anonymous Barko Ramius April 29, 2015 2:46 AM  

Popcorn maker on overdrive. Need to fashion a more efficient one using only dried yp sjw bones.

Blogger Krul April 29, 2015 2:53 AM  

Bakker? The Prince of Wangst is getting into it now? Just when I thought this Hugo thing couldn't get any more entertaining!

"The fact that Beale managed to pull this little coup is proof positive that science fiction and fantasy matter, that we dwell in a rare corner of culture where the battle of ideas is for… fucking… real."

Are you certain of all that, Mr "Doubt-as-our-highest-virtue"?

Blogger murphaticlaw April 29, 2015 2:56 AM  

Has GRRM every repudiated his story where the Dude with the God complex bamboozles the Black Female into using a bio-weapon to force mass sterilizations for eugenic purposes?

Which is just like the patriarchal ploy of condemning women for the sin as in the Adam and Eve story?

Which means GRRM is guilty of sinful bad thoughts like misogyny, patriarchy, racism and advocating genocide?

Not that I really care, I'll still enjoy the Haviland Tuf stories, I just think it would be funny.

Anonymous Giuseppe April 29, 2015 3:05 AM  

This war needs to accelerate as fast as possible. I think speed is on the side of truth. Which is why committees are indeed satanic.

You know, even if one were thoroughly atheist, an objective observation of SJW behaviour would still lead you to the conclusion, on probabilities alone, that there really may be something to the whole concept that there is such a thing as the Lord of Lies.

Anonymous rho April 29, 2015 3:06 AM  

Is The Endurance: Shackleton's Legendary Antarctic Expedition better or worse than every Hugo nomination, since ever?

Anonymous Daniel April 29, 2015 3:11 AM  

Don't write "sucking" and "Toad of Tor" that closely ever again. You really are evil.

Meanwhile, at File 770, they are convinced you must be sockpuppeting by the dozens, because there's no way there can be that many articulate Indians on the Internet who are massing against them.

Blogger Jordan179 April 29, 2015 3:17 AM  

They're going to cheat, you know. Though the most obvious way in which they can do so will mean cutting the ground right out from under the Hugos, rendering them a quaint curiosity, along the lines of "And here are the Hugos. Once upon a time, science fiction writers actually wanted them ..."

Blogger Poor Guy April 29, 2015 3:18 AM  

Wordpress, Typepad, Livejournal, AIM also work, OpenID - whatever that is. Or Name/URL, where you could at least use another handle.

Blogger Poor Guy April 29, 2015 3:19 AM  

I have stories. I don't know what to do with them. Post them right here and let you guys rip them apart? :p

Anonymous Daniel April 29, 2015 3:20 AM  

The other thing that SJWs like McCreepy don't get: because he has never lost a fight (because he never fought one) he can't possibly understand that no one gets ginned up to fight a fictitious enemy. He gets ginned up to fight a real one whom he hates.

So even if the lie is actually true, that McCreepy has no enemies, it doesn't matter.

The enemies have him.

Blogger KRW April 29, 2015 3:45 AM  

Checking....

Blogger KRW April 29, 2015 4:01 AM  

Google account established. Can now comment, as per rules, mostly un-anonymously. Umm....now what?

Blogger Shimshon April 29, 2015 4:15 AM  

If the word "defenestrate" didn't exist, it would have to be invented.

Blogger Matt April 29, 2015 4:21 AM  

There is no such thing as "no conflict". Life is conflict. Believing youre not in conflict and opposition to everything that is not you, (and often within yourself) is what leads to bigger problems. You werent just minding your own business. There is no living in this world without being a part of it. There is only rolling over, waiting to die.

Be not of the world, but show the people the better way, through action.

Blogger The Original Hermit April 29, 2015 4:25 AM  

"Umm....now what?"

Say something witty.

Blogger The Observer April 29, 2015 4:25 AM  

@murphaticlaw: I was 13 when I got my hands on Tuf Voyaging, and even then I realised those particular short stories were a poorly disguised Take That against those nasty evil religious breeders. If they could hire Tuf to do all that, certainly they could export their population away from the system, even if the other planets weren't taking immigrants. If they weren't exporting to the other local planets, there wouldn't be a reason for the blockade to exist.

But hey, it ended on a happy note, because Tuf genocided those nasty non-contraceptive-using religious fundies for their own good.

Anonymous Bz April 29, 2015 4:28 AM  

Did ever anything good come out of LiveJournal?

Blogger Poor Guy April 29, 2015 4:38 AM  

KRW - Good to see you aren't Anonymous anymore... wait how do we know that is really you? lol

Blogger KRW April 29, 2015 4:43 AM  

Goodthink? Badthink? Sortathink? Now wittythink too?
I am thinkin' wittythink is....hard.
Because think.

Just a thought. Sorta.

It is late....or early....or something. Got a headache because of think.

Off topic anyway...time for bed.

KRW

Anonymous Gary April 29, 2015 4:49 AM  

"The battle of ideas is ongoing and everywhere throughout the culture. And for the first time in decades, those who favor liberty are on the offensive. "

I want this on a shirt with the Legion of Evil Minions logo above it please.

Anonymous Bz April 29, 2015 5:07 AM  

Bakker seems, like so many atheist cottage philosophers, to get stuck at declaring some sort of hypocrisy the great moral failure. In this particular case, everyone is a "moral clown", etc., because they cannot act rationally at every time. (A little while later, shaming seems to be a great tool though. Bigots must be exposed! Because shame is part of a rationalistic moral? It gets a little confusing.)

He concludes:

"Everyone’s crooked is someone else’s straight—that’s the dilemma. Since all moral interpretations are fundamentally underdetermined, there is no rational or evidential means to compel moral consensus. Pretty much anything can be argued when it comes to questions of value."

Well, as my friend says about these things, speak for yourself, buddy.

Blogger murphaticlaw April 29, 2015 5:14 AM  

No he didn't remember? He left the choice up to Ma Spider, the antimony on her shoulders.

She could either choose to release the manna plants, and sterilize 99% of the population, or she could signal for the attack and kill the populations if not outright destroy the surrounding planetary systems and quite probably destroy her own.

In the real world I suspect she would have shot Tuf in the back of the head and cried havoc,

One of the things that has always bugged me about Space Opera type science fiction, is how little the authors value their craft.

The best solution would have been a Dyson Sphere or even a Ringworld, but apparently everyone forgot those as possibility

Anonymous Bz April 29, 2015 5:17 AM  

That sort of moral philosophy appears, because it has little more to say regarding morals, to fixate on simplistic internal consistency. Hypocrisy and bigotry are bad essentially because 'what if someone did that to you'. (Yet they seldom have much to say about customs like jizya for some reason. I suppose that reluctance is cultural.) That reasoning only takes you so far, though.

Thus, I'm surprised that these people don't even get as far as the greater lights who have preceded them, like Nietzsche, Kierkegaard or Sartre for that matter. At least they then would be stuck on a higher level.

Blogger IM2L844 April 29, 2015 6:01 AM  

I don't think you're demonstrating the requisite degree of deference to guys riding the rails of the their white male privilege. Keep it up and they are going to shun you real good, chief.

Blogger Vox April 29, 2015 6:18 AM  

Shun me? But how can that be? That would create, you know, US vs THEM!

Blogger Rantor April 29, 2015 6:18 AM  

@Gary, simplify the motto... Liberty is Offensive.

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 6:43 AM  

> Oh, come on, you cowardly sad sack of an SJW.

At which point did he *ever* say he'd debate *you*? Or that he'd go to the table in the first place?

He's saying his side should argue against the Sad Puppies. Not your pithy arguments.

All you can manage as a response to R Scott Bakker is an insult ("meandering").

Having actually read through your posts, and being remarkably intelligent myself, I dismiss thee. This was your last chance to look even remotely intelligent.

I point at you and laugh, Theodore.

Blogger Vox April 29, 2015 6:48 AM  

Having actually read through your posts, and being remarkably intelligent myself, I dismiss thee.

Dost thou? But nay, I prithee, judgeth not in overhaste, milady!

Blogger Sherwood family April 29, 2015 7:17 AM  

Pulvatory: Calling for debate, kind of...you know...seems to indicate a desire to...you know...debate, right? I mean if I call for a sandwich and my wife brings me one it should not be surprising to me. I should not say, "Well, no. I meant sandwiches as generalities, not this specific sandwich. That would be gauche. I cannot believe you would bring me a sandwich. How could you possibly misunderstand?"

So if GRRM calls for debate and someone obliges...then it follows that his surprise is because he was A) lying in his call for debate or B) a coward who is incapable of standing up for what he believes in a direct exchange.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2015 7:24 AM  

They first depend on conservatives to give them entry, then they depend on conservatives to inflate them into unbeatable monsters of unstoppable force.

Reality is much closer to what we are witnessing here not what the castraticons and bimbos of Conservative Inc. peddle to the masses of droolers.

If I was to gain the power that the SJW actually worship I would round them up and sell them to some Muslims.

OpenID simplytimothy April 29, 2015 7:33 AM  

Vox

This Hugo-Puppies thing is a very good read; I am referring to your series of blog posts on the matter and the various snippets from twitter and other blogs, some blog radio as a story qua story

It has all the elements of a good story--mystery, subterfuge, rebel-alliance, moral subtext, danger, loss, anger, courage , victims, heroes , resilience, implacable will, good guys, bad guys , a character with the moniker Daddy Warpig ....

Its got that 'Tune in next week, same Bat channel, same Bat station!' feel to it.

cheers.




Anonymous Google April 29, 2015 7:36 AM  

Google account established. Can now comment, as per rules, mostly un-anonymously. Umm....now what?

Are your info are belong to us.

Blogger maniacprovost April 29, 2015 7:40 AM  

Pulvatory, so far as I remember, none of the people who are actually smarter than Vox have ever stated it. Arguing from your own authority is not effective.

Anonymous Usualjay April 29, 2015 7:41 AM  

This:
“That's why the single most important aspect of both #GamerGate and #SadPuppies was the way in which it was made perfectly clear to everyone that there are, in fact, two sides.”

And this:
“Criticism isn't war. But taking over the SF establishment for ideological purposes is war.”

This is what they – GRRM, Hines, et al, don’t get. Or as VD points out they do get it and hence the desperate attempt to break out of the rapidly closing kessel. They might have been successful if they had looked at and learned from the “Gamers are dead” fiasco last August. But then, from my experience people in the SJW camp will usually tolerate nothing less than the unconditional surrender of their foes. Foes being anybody who doesn’t embrace their same “uber ultra Good” ideology. Convert or die leaves you with very little room for maneuver.

As for Bakker: “We need to get over ourselves—and now.”

You first dude. I haven’t been assailed by that kind of relentless self-important droning this early in the morning since I was in college.

Anonymous Joe Doakes April 29, 2015 7:41 AM  

Thanks for calling out the clumsy auditing lie in the column, that really annoyed me.

Larry: As far as I can tell, they carefully counted every Cuban's ballot cast in favor of Fidel.

Jimmy: Larry concedes the counting was accurate! That proves it was an open and fair election, despite there being only one person nominated, the opposition having been excluded for political incorrectness.

Oh wait, wrong biased election, wrong Jimmy. My bad.

As for no evidence, that brings to mind Slick Willy saying "I don't think you can find any evidence of the fact that I changed government policy solely because of a contribution." Not saying he didn't change it, not even saying there's no evidence he changed it, saying you'll never find the evidence.

Maybe not. But the Romans solved that problem more than a thousand years ago with a neat little saying: res ipsa loquitur. Good enough for me.

Blogger Salt April 29, 2015 7:42 AM  

Alvaro Garces @ not a blog -
Then you ask us to use the term "liberals" instead of "SJ Warriors". But the problem is that those concepts have little to do with each other. You, for example, are a liberal, but not a SJW. To be a SJW you would need to act like a bully, to say that you wouldn't feel safe in the WorldCon if Mr. Torgersen attends, to take part in mass-outrage campaigns in Twitter against people who have done nothing to deserve it... You do none of those things, so you can't be called a SJW (and really, I do not want to use insulting terms, but what other term is there for that concept?). The worst that you could be called is an enabler. Someone who looks the other way when those things happen, preferring not to see what he doesn't want to see, or who just accepts that bullying as the natural order of things, without taking part in it.


That's incorrect, as Martin has chosen sides. Doesn't matter he's willfully blind, that he wants his precious Fandom to remain within his personal comfort zone. He wants to stay above it all. He needs to check his shoes.

I left a comment there, a succinct reply from Rabid Puppies - "We don't care."

It was promptly removed.

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 7:43 AM  

> Dost thou? But nay, I prithee, judgeth not in overhaste, milady!

1. I'm not a lady.

2. Since you apparently lack the attention span needed to read a short sentence, see the part (focus here! Stay focused!) where I read through your posts. Unless you're saying I read through your dribble really fast.

*Do* you admit I read through your dribble really fast?

Anonymous Godscalc April 29, 2015 7:49 AM  

pulvatory,

I doff my trilby to thee, for in sooth was that scorching bilious. Our host must forthwith apply himself a generous portion of salve.

Blogger Vox April 29, 2015 7:53 AM  

I'm not a lady. Since you apparently lack the attention span needed to read a short sentence, see the part (focus here! Stay focused!) where I read through your posts. Unless you're saying I read through your dribble really fast.

I don't care what you do, think, say, or write, Gamma boy. Go thou and pestereth yourlady or whatever. It seemeth I apparently seemeth to be sayingeth I don't care.

Blogger IM2L844 April 29, 2015 7:56 AM  

>1. I'm not a lady.

I'll say.

Anonymous daddynichol April 29, 2015 8:06 AM  

pulvatory,

Did you fail to notice that Sherwood family corrected your intentional fuck up regarding the debate? Then again, even if you accepted you were wrong, you would never admit it, gamma boy.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2015 8:13 AM  

John Ringo, is off the reservation, (okay he was never exactly on the reservation to begin with)
and has now gone public as well.

Redshirts by John Scalzi was a fairly banal Star Trek fan-fic that featured a cast of Security that as I was told (never read it) was a fair SJW cross-section.



John Scalzi, although a cis-male, has relentlessly promoted social justice in various venues including purging the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America of persons who oppose the militant social justice approach or were otherwise in the way of promoting social justice.



John Scalzi has written good social justice books.



John Scalzi is therefore a good person to vote for an award even if it's for a fairly banal book that frankly could barely have been published were it not for his contacts and already being a fairly popular author. (Like me, people will publish his grocery list. I think every SF author at one time or another has considered a Redshirt type book and has taken a pass because, honestly, most of us have more couth.)



This is nothing against John, he's a pretty decent author and Old Man's War was pretty good. But let's face it, he's got to be a bit ashamed of getting a fucking Hugo for 'Original Science Fiction Novel' for a Star Trek fan-fic. If he's not, shame on him.



But the reason he got one was he talked the talk and walked the walk of whatever new insanity and inanity the SJWs come up with. How he even keeps up I have no clue. They are CONSTANTLY changing the goal posts. And while most of it is, to most people, insane and inane there is a logic.

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 8:21 AM  

Sherwood family,

That's your interpretation. Considering how dismissive GRRM is of Day, no, I'm pretty sure he won't stoop to his level.

Vox,

> I don't care what you do, think, say, or write, Gamma boy. Go thou and pestereth yourlady or whatever. It seemeth I apparently seemeth to be sayingeth I don't care.

You avoided the exact kind of question you yourself throw at people (because you know it's a loaded question and only resort to it because you've lost the argument), insinuated that my "gamma boy" (?!?) status somehow makes me less intelligent, and yet failed to raise a single point.

Oh sweetie.

You are pathetic. And so stupid it almost hurts.

Anonymous Alexander April 29, 2015 8:32 AM  

You would think the enemy would have more sense than to flee the rabid puppies. That just gets the juices flowing.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 8:32 AM  

KRW April 29, 2015 4:01 AM
Google account established. Can now comment, as per rules, mostly un-anonymously. Umm....now what?



demonstrate you're an SJW so the Rabid Puppies can tear you limb from limb and skulls for the skull throne and blood for the blood god?

no?

damn.


pulvatory April 29, 2015 6:43 AM
Having actually read through your posts, and being remarkably intelligent myself, I dismiss thee. This was your last chance to look even remotely intelligent.

I point at you and laugh, Theodore.



take this one for instance.

demands Vox perform "intelligence" to her satisfaction ... but demonstrates none of her own.

makes appeals to own authority and intelligence, while providing proof of neither.

pretends that 'Disqualify' will be sufficient here.

could be Ann Morgan's twin sister.

we really need to do something about these psychometricians quoting IQ in non-Base10, they're confusing a lot of people.

Blogger 223366 April 29, 2015 8:38 AM  

Extremely insightful, important observation: "The main reason SJWs were successful in infiltrating the science fiction establishment and imposing their ideology on it was due to their Fabian strategy of denying any conflict was taking place. Their entryism depended entirely upon stealth and plausible deniability."

Thank you Vox Day.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 8:38 AM  

pulvatory April 29, 2015 7:43 AM
1. I'm not a lady.



you are, however, a bitch.



pulvatory April 29, 2015 8:21 AM
Considering how dismissive GRRM is of Day,



because germ has standing to be dismissive of a person he just demanded a debate with?

dddddddddddddddddiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssqqqqqqqqqqqqquuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifffffffffffffffyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!



pulvatory April 29, 2015 8:21 AM
and yet failed to raise a single point.



says the poltroon who ... hasn't raised a single substantive point.

whoop-de-do.

*twirls finger in air*

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 8:38 AM  

1. I'm not a lady.

You may not be biologically female. None here can say with authority, I'd venture.

But you are a woman.

Blogger Copperheaded April 29, 2015 8:39 AM  

Purvatory, thank you for helping me see the light. Your arguments as to Theo's stupidity are so overwhelming that I can no longer read through his dribble. Thank you Vox for the near decade's worth of education, but you are too stupid for me. Pervatory: you can come to my parents house for coffee. Bring pajamas.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 8:42 AM  

"You avoided the exact kind of question you yourself throw at people (because you know it's a loaded question and only resort to it because you've lost the argument), insinuated that my "gamma boy" (?!?) status somehow makes me less intelligent, and yet failed to raise a single point.

Oh sweetie.

You are pathetic. And so stupid it almost hurts."

Well this is just boring and predictable as all hell. I mean for crying out loud can't you people at least come up with a new trope for once? You have the same 3 troll cards... and you play them over and over and over again.

I'm not asking for a miracle here ok? I'm not asking you to not troll.

I'm just asking you to troll better. Or at least... differently.

Show some creativity for once.

Anonymous Joe Doakes April 29, 2015 8:43 AM  

Pulvatory is putting words in GRRM's mouth ("argue" rather than GRRM's actual word "debate"), then chiding Vox for misunderstanding what GRRM didn't say.

In high school debate, we learned that was a Straw Man.

Of course, in those days, we didn't hide threats of physical violence under a fake Latin tag. So what did we know?

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 8:45 AM  

bob k. mando,

> you are, however, a bitch.

Are you saying I'm on the receiving end of The Bunk's compliment? Did you just call me McNulty?

Joshua Dyal,

> But you are a woman.

Hello, earth to brain. Earth to Joshua's brain. Are you there? What does that even mean, Joshua's brain? Hello? Do you exist?

How can I be female but not a woman, you sad, strange little man?

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 8:49 AM  

Joshua: You may not be biologically female. (...) But you are a woman.
pulvatory: How can I be female but not a woman

*cuckoo*
*cuckoo*
*cuckoo*

Blogger Underwater Operative April 29, 2015 8:54 AM  

Larry & Brad didn't take over the Hugo's. Vox and RP did. The numbers show this to be true.

So when GRRM calls for a debate concerning the Hugo Award controversy, who else should he debate but Vox?

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 8:54 AM  

Hello, earth to brain. Earth to Joshua's brain. Are you there? What does that even mean, Joshua's brain? Hello? Do you exist?

I love how in her zeal to denounce all and sundry as stupid--a rather specific insult, she also manages to routinely have to ask what everyone means because she can't understand it.

Classic.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 8:55 AM  

oh come on, Markku. isn't it obvious?

pulvatory SO FAR beyond us that she has left standard language comprehension in the dust.

she means what she means REGARDLESS of what she actually says.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 8:57 AM  

"I love how in her zeal to denounce all and sundry as stupid--a rather specific insult, she also manages to routinely have to ask what everyone means because she can't understand it."

That's how it knows how smart it is. The way it can't follow simple conversation.

Anonymous Rob April 29, 2015 8:59 AM  

I point at you and laugh, Theodore.

I know this has been discussed before, but what's with using Vox's real name as if it's some sort of insult or maybe using the fact that you know his real name, which is extremely easy to find, as some sort of marker of intellectual superiority?

You used to see it quite often with Internet Atheists (maybe you still do), smugly calling Jesus "Yeshua" as if pretending you know Hebrew somehow makes your terrible argument better.

Thus, I'm surprised that these people don't even get as far as the greater lights who have preceded them, like Nietzsche, Kierkegaard or Sartre for that matter. At least they then would be stuck on a higher level.

Well, Kierkegaard was an extremely devout Christian, so it's unlikely they would give him the time of day. As for Satre and Nietzsche, that would be actively counterproductive to their purposes. They want to be the sort of atheists who Nietzsche's madman is yelling "God is dead" at, and whom Nietzsche despised. In this sense, Nietzsche is as much, if not greater, an enemy than the intellectual luminaries of Christianity.

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 9:02 AM  

@pulvatory

"remarkably intelligent"? You cant even recognise when you're being mocked.

Anonymous Anyone Can Use the Name/URL Option in the Comment Box and Ucan2 April 29, 2015 9:03 AM  

How do I set myself up to comment without using anonymous.

Blogger Vox April 29, 2015 9:04 AM  

You avoided the exact kind of question you yourself throw at people

I wouldn't answer any question you ask me, Gamma boy. You're not capable of following me. You've already made that perfectly clear. Let me see if I can put this in terms you might be able to follow.

Me smart. You no smart. Me no make talkee-talk at you.

Anonymous Usualjay April 29, 2015 9:05 AM  

@pulvatory

"How can I be female but not a woman"

Look up Bruce Jenner for some clues.

Blogger David April 29, 2015 9:08 AM  

"those who favor liberty are on the offensive" because the pendulum of trust (and its derivative, tolerance) has begun to reverse from an historic extreme.

Too much trust gets you historic asset value bubbles. It gets you a rogue's gallery of politicians. It gets you an angry underclass that blames everyone but its members for their dysfunction, leading to chaos and disorder. It gets you a self-described elite of sophists and fools running your academies and defining deviancy so low that those attempting to differentiate themselves by their actions and appearance become caricatures of side-show freaks.

When I was 12 I was much bigger and stronger than most of the kids. One little bully delighted in punching me at will, secure in his folly that I'd tolerate it indefinitely. One day he hit me once too often; I wheeled, wrapped my arm around his neck and picked him up off the floor, dangling his feet 6" from it. I was irrationally enraged and if not for his friend jumping on my back to get me to drop him, I might have strangled him...yes, to death.

SJW's are that little bully, punching me and mine, delighting in their "strength" to beat on the Big Guy. They seem inscrutably unaware of the vast reservoir of rage they've filled behind the dam of our tolerant facade.

Anonymous Anarchopurplism April 29, 2015 9:09 AM  

"Pulvatory is putting words in GRRM's mouth ("argue" rather than GRRM's actual word "debate"), then chiding Vox for misunderstanding what GRRM didn't say."

Well said

As a casual observer not in the SF/Gamer community, its a little disappointing that GRRM chose not to debate or discuss "the issues" with VD.

If you are considered a leader of 1 camp & you make suggestion that a dialogue be started with another camp, it is fully EXPECTED that when one of the leaders of the opposite camps agrees to the suggestion.....YOU TALK.

It is completely clear that GRRM is A- genuinely not interested in debating the other side (*cough* *cough*....liar!) or B- fearful (*cough* *cough*.....pussy!)

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 9:10 AM  

Markku,

> *cuckoo*
> *cuckoo*
> *cuckoo*

LOL OWNED.

Facetiousness aside, how can I be a woman if I'm not female, Joshua? Am I trans man? How did you figure it out?

How did you know the truth which I so diligently tried to conceal?

Apollo,

> "remarkably intelligent"? You cant even recognise when you're being mocked.

I can, but since you're all so biased you immediately assumed I was a woman, I didn't bother being serious.

Hey you guys.

You guys.

Are you really going to wear the Evil League of Evil badges at Worldcon?

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 9:12 AM  

Me smart. You no smart. Me no make talkee-talk at you.

Should have been, "White 'man' speak-em with forked tongue, isn't it."

Plus, I love a good 80s pop culture reference. I can't resist 'em.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:13 AM  

"Me smart. You no smart. Me no make talkee-talk at you."

Have you considered trying a random series of clicks and pops? It may be more effective.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:14 AM  

Uses "sweetie" as an insult.

complains that we use female terms as insults.


Because smart.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 9:15 AM  

Facetiousness aside, how can I be a woman if I'm not female, Joshua? Am I trans man? How did you figure it out?

I'm confident, as a soi-disant genius without parallel, that you'll figure it out on your own without me having to explain the joke.

Anonymous Giuseppe April 29, 2015 9:16 AM  

Shun me? But how can that be? That would create, you know, US vs THEM!

No, no, of course not! You see for that to be true you would have to be an actual, you know, person! And you are not, you unperson you. Why, being an injun, you're not even really human, or civilised, but above all you are a mucho-non-gringo-badthinker. You not an US or a THEM you see. You're a Vox.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:19 AM  

"I'm confident, as a soi-disant genius without parallel, that you'll figure it out on your own without me having to explain the joke."

Maybe I should translate...

***click click POP click****

oh wait.. maybe I should try whale...

IIIIIIIII'mmmmmmm coooooooonfideeent YOOOOOOOOO willllllllll FEEEEGUUUUUURRRRR ITTTT...

no?

Oh I know... this will work...

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 9:22 AM  

Endless entertainment this morning.

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 9:24 AM  

@pulvatory

I can, but since you're all so biased you immediately assumed I was a woman, I didn't bother being serious.

The milady reference WAS mockery, and it flew right over your head.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 9:24 AM  

pulvatory April 29, 2015 9:10 AM
Facetiousness aside, how can I be a woman if I'm not female, Joshua? Am I trans man? How did you figure it out?



FINALLY. after all this time, pulvatory uses that 'big brain' of hers to extrapolate *A* possibility.

don't spend those 2 digits of IQ you've got all in one place.

whatsamattayou, pulvy? you're not bigoted against the Trans, are you?



pulvatory April 29, 2015 9:10 AM
Hey you guys.
You guys.
Are you really going to wear the Evil League of Evil badges at Worldcon?


what? now you're the emotional equivalent of a five year old?

damn, you're just covering yourself in glory here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:25 AM  

MEEEEEEHOOOOOWWWWWW EEEEEHOWWWW HOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN

Anonymous Alexander April 29, 2015 9:27 AM  

I either want a troll from the rankest depths of hell, or no troll at all.

This is just pulgatory.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:29 AM  

"This is just pulgatory."

The ELoE doesn't get to pick the bones they throw to us... they throw what bones the Lord provides.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 9:30 AM  

Pulvatory, with the reading comprehension you've demonstrated so far, it may well have been easy, but you probably skipped over the words you didn't understand.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:31 AM  

"Pulvatory, with the reading comprehension you've demonstrated so far, it may well have been easy, but you probably skipped over the words you didn't understand."

no no... you're doing it wrong... like this... listen...

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNN!


See? Now you try.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:34 AM  

Sea Slug's own Glocks?

I had no idea.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 9:35 AM  

Nate, tru dat.

Gotta get out the crayons, and break it down Barney style.

Oh, well, Wendell it is...HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

OpenID cailcorishev April 29, 2015 9:36 AM  

If you are considered a leader of 1 camp & you make suggestion that a dialogue be started with another camp, it is fully EXPECTED that when one of the leaders of the opposite camps agrees to the suggestion.....YOU TALK.

Ordinarily, yes. But remember the theory that Tyrion is an author avatar for GRRM. In that case, he's probably waiting for an actual warrior to step up and be his champion.

Do you admit it was really easily for me to read through your drivel?

Gosh, how clever. I haven't seen anything that clever since I was a Games Jr. subscriber and did the logic puzzles.

Vox, I hope your wife watches her back, because this one is obsessed with you. You've tried everything to drive her away, and she just won't stop embarrassing herself over you.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:38 AM  

"Oh, well, Wendell it is...HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!"

very nice. You're practically like a native. the nuance is all there... even if the subject matter is triggering and problematic.

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 9:38 AM  

@pulvatory

That cock will likely be the smartest thing to come out of your mouth all year.

...wait, do I need to explain that insult to you?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:40 AM  

"...wait, do I need to explain that insult to you?"

translate more likely... try the hooon. I think its the most effective means of sea slug communication.

Anonymous Gecko April 29, 2015 9:42 AM  

I point at you and laugh, Theodore.

If Vox is doing any sock puppeteering, this is it.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:44 AM  

WEEEEEEEE DOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN't CAAAAAARRRRRRR

Blogger Josh April 29, 2015 9:46 AM  

If Vox is doing any sock puppeteering, this is it.

Seems to be an actual person.

And not Tad.

BigGaySteve, do you know who this queer is?

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 9:47 AM  

VQPF on steroids

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:48 AM  

why is it still talking about owning Glocks? I had no idea glock ownership was so common among sea slugs...

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 9:48 AM  

yeah, it could be Tad's wife.

that'd fit.


Gecko April 29, 2015 9:42 AM
If Vox is doing any sock puppeteering, this is it.



nah. most of the typos Vox makes now are Ital-glish.

this one is just tarded.

wonder what she's going to do when BigGaySteve shows up?

Blogger Daniel April 29, 2015 9:49 AM  

Them bones is biblical: like morons from heaven.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:49 AM  

"VQPF on steroids"

No... the Vox's Glock Owning Party Friends were entertaining... spoke standard human languages and understood complex concepts.

This strange creature is something else... Glock owning sea slugs..... who knew?

Blogger Josh April 29, 2015 9:49 AM  

You can join, but bring your own condoms.

Is this a rape threat?

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 9:51 AM  

Bob Commando,

Are you coming to Worldcon with a big ELoE badge?

Blogger Josh April 29, 2015 9:52 AM  

Me and my black boyfriend are typing with one hand,

Are y'all both tying on the same keyboard like the super 1337 haxorz on ncis?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 9:57 AM  

"Are y'all both tying on the same keyboard like the super 1337 haxorz on ncis?"

that's never going to work. try the manatee. its your only real chance.

Anonymous Harsh April 29, 2015 9:58 AM  

@pulvatory

We don't like Gammas like you. And you'll never be part of the group. And we really don't care what your opinion of us is.

Other than that, you seem like a nice guy.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 9:59 AM  

You guys keep making me chuckle. Quit it!

I need to get some progress on this project.

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 10:01 AM  

@pulvatory

I assure you.

My boyfriend coming in my mouth is very much not an insult.

You can join, but bring your own condoms.


So I DO need to explain it. OK.

The basic gist of the insult is to imply that you're stupid - if the cock is the smartest thing to come out of your mouth then this suggests that the things that you say are not very intelligent, and therefore, that YOU are not very intelligent.

...

Cocks are generally not known for being smart, you see.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:01 AM  

pulvatory April 29, 2015 9:51 AM
Are you coming to Worldcon with a big ELoE badge?



*shrugs*

so far as i know, nobody is talking about making badges.

try again.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:03 AM  

Apollo April 29, 2015 10:01 AM
Cocks are generally not known for being smart, you see.



oh, come on.

dicky dawk is smarter than you, he's got a science degree.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 10:04 AM  

This strange creature is something else...

C.S. Lewis explores this psychology in The Great Divorce:

There were Ghosts, plain and simple: mere bogies, fully conscious of their own decay, who had accepted the traditional role of the spectre, and seemed to hope they could frighten someone. I had had no idea that this desire was possible. But my Teacher reminded me that the pleasure of frightening is by no means unknown on earth, and also of Tacitus' saying: "They terrify lest they should fear." When the debris of a decayed human soul finds itself crumbled into ghosthood and realizes "I myself am now that which all humanity has feared, I am just that cold churchyard shadow, that horrible thing which cannot be, yet somehow is," then to terrify others appears to it an escape from the doom of being a Ghost yet still fearing Ghosts - fearing even the Ghost it is. For to be afraid of oneself is the last horror.

But, beyond all these, I saw other grotesque phantoms in which hardly a trace of the human form remained; monsters who had faced the journey to the bus stop - perhaps for them it was thousands of miles - and come up to the country of the Shadow of Life and limped far into it over the torturing grass, only to spit and gibber out in one ecstacy of hatred their envy and (what is harder to understand) their contempt, of joy. The voyage seemed to them a small price to pay if once, only once, within sight of that eternal dawn, they could tell the prigs, the toffs, the sanctimonious humbugs, the snobs, the "haves," what they thought of them.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 10:04 AM  

I think I'd seriously consider ordering an otherwise blank mask that has the ELoE logo on it.

Faceless minion #21 representing.

Blogger Josh April 29, 2015 10:07 AM  

so far as i know, nobody is talking about making badges.

Badges?


Badges?



WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 10:09 AM  

"So I DO need to explain it. OK."

I told you.

c'mon... try it with me...


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNN!!!!!

Anonymous pulvatory is a teenybopper April 29, 2015 10:12 AM  

This pulvajayjay twit is the funniest troll in a while. My guess it's a teenage girl (15? or so). What with the demands on Vox and defining it's own victory conditions.

Funny stuff.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:12 AM  

Josh April 29, 2015 10:07 AM
WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!



THERE we go.

Anonymous Harsh April 29, 2015 10:13 AM  

This pulvajayjay twit is the funniest troll in a while. My guess it's a teenage girl (15? or so).

Unfortunately it's probably a mid-thirties male.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 10:14 AM  

"THERE we go."

You said rape twice.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 10:14 AM  

You know what we need? A mobile app that will identify other ELoE members in the vicinity, but only if both have inserted their correct password for their ID. Perhaps using Diffie-Hellman algorithm for making sure that both parties are ELoE. Nobody who has a valid password, assigned by Vox, will get any response from someone else's app. So, a non-ELoE will never know, even if they get the app somewhere.

I'm sure that would be useful at Worldcon.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 10:16 AM  

I got rid of my smartphone. Now what?

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2015 10:16 AM  

"Endless entertainment this morning."

Yeah but someone mentioned Bruce Jenner and I went into dry heaves.

Not fun :P

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:17 AM  

Nate April 29, 2015 10:14 AM
You said rape twice.



too much is not enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPvadhQr44g

Anonymous KC9ZNR April 29, 2015 10:18 AM  

I have stories. I don't know what to do with them. Post them right here and let you guys rip them apart? :p

Does anyone know if The Friday Challenge (or similar) is still around?

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:18 AM  

say, bimbo with black boyfriend?

shouldn't Wheeler be in this convo?

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 10:18 AM  

Nate

MEEEEHOOWWWWW HOOOOOOOOONNNNN!!!!

I expect no further misunderstandings...

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 10:19 AM  

Hey Vox Day. You lose.

pulvatory is a teenybopper,

> What with the demands on Vox and defining it's own victory conditions.

Eh, Vox's own conditions, really.

Whatever.

I win I win I win.

MWAH.

Goodbye losersssss. See you at Worldcon!

OpenID pulvatory April 29, 2015 10:20 AM  

Oh and remember, Vox Day.

You chickened-out.

You. Chickened. Out.

You big mama's gamma boy you.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee April 29, 2015 10:20 AM  

"Here's the question:

Do you admit it was really easily for me to read through your drivel?"

Why would anyone other than you know if it was easy or not for you to read Vox's "drivel" [sic]? That's along the lines of "Answer me this smart guy, is it more comfortable for me if I tilt my chair slightly back or have it level? Come on mister IQ 197, tell me which I prefer?" Vox is smart, but not a mind reader. (Or is he? That's got to be terrifying thought for Scalzi?)

Alexander's right, we need a better class of troll.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 10:22 AM  

"I expect no further misunderstandings..."

hey I made no promises. Sea Slugs are notoriously difficult to communicate with. I'm just offering the best chance. I think you may have gotten through though.

Anonymous Harsh April 29, 2015 10:24 AM  

I win I win I win.

MWAH.

Goodbye losersssss. See you at Worldcon!


Well, you told us.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 10:25 AM  

I win I win I win.

MWAH.

Goodbye losersssss. See you at Worldcon!


*gollum*
*gollum*

Losersssss!

Blogger Josh April 29, 2015 10:29 AM  

The puppies, they wants our precious

False, tricksy puppies...

Anonymous Apollo April 29, 2015 10:30 AM  

Nate

I remain cautiously optimistic about my chances for success.

Anonymous Bz April 29, 2015 10:41 AM  

Victory is declared while bounding away. Godspeed, rabbit warrior.

Blogger JCclimber April 29, 2015 10:45 AM  

Vox,
all your regular readers know to whom you are referring when you write MzB, but I'm wondering if the new traffic has any clue what a sick, disgusting, spawn of hell that person is with those initials.

I would love to see her name spelled out, if I hadn't been reading this blog, I'd never have known what a vile creature she was (beyond extrapolating it from her novels).

And this comment section is Cackle out Loud. I rarely have time to read comments lately, glad I made the time today.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 10:45 AM  

well, this is what happens when men of integrity are no longer permitted to kill rabbits in duels when challenged.

Anonymous Godscalc April 29, 2015 10:46 AM  

I am probably a delta with some gamma admixture, for much the same reasons that John C. Wright probably is, according to Vox in a comment to a recent post. The only difference is that I wasn’t a complete flop with women before I was married. I was however an orbiter and a “nice guy.”

Despite this fact, the gamma in his pure form is incomprehensible to me. It's like being able to personally relate to a degree of narcissism, a certain lack of empathy, and a touch of suppressed cruelty, but not being able to conceive of how someone can be a true psychopath.

I'm not sure I have ever encountered a real gamma in the flesh, but that may be because I would never allow a face to face conversation with one to go on for more than a few minutes before politely disengaging. Even the lambdas I have known are not as effeminate in the relevant sense. If it were not for the low class of trolls I have seen here and elsewhere on the Internet recently, I would think Vox’s classification was an exaggeration.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 11:04 AM  

Despite this fact, the gamma in his pure form is incomprehensible to me. It's like being able to personally relate to a degree of narcissism, a certain lack of empathy, and a touch of suppressed cruelty, but not being able to conceive of how someone can be a true psychopath.

I am not sure myself, now, that a number of these anklebiters are 'pure' gammas. I'm starting to believe that a solid number of them, maybe even a majority, are gammas with omega admixtures.

Anonymous Trimegistus April 29, 2015 11:07 AM  

There's something actually a little disturbing about that kind of troll: the ones who are so fucking stupid they don't even realize how fucking stupid they are. The ones who need to have all the insults explained to them. How can such people exist in the world? How can they negotiate the purchase of a computer, or find the money to buy one?

Blogger Russell April 29, 2015 11:13 AM  

@Rob

"I know this has been discussed before, but what's with using Vox's real name as if it's some sort of insult or maybe using the fact that you know his real name, which is extremely easy to find, as some sort of marker of intellectual superiority? "

It's heap powerful medicine to control the demon Voxemort!

They expect Vox to wail in anguish as his unholy flesh burns in the light of Goodness.

They get a chuckle from the vast horde of Evil Faceless Minions. Vox doesn't notice, or care if he did.

And, watching this thread, the Brave SJW becomes more and more incoherent when the Talisman of Pure Truth does nothing against the Dark Lord Vox.

The more Gamma, the more this backfires into hilarity.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 11:13 AM  

I assume it is some kind of autism spectrum disorder. The poor bastard actually thinks he won.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 11:17 AM  

Nate April 29, 2015 11:13 AM
The poor bastard actually thinks he won.



no he doesn't, not in any way that we would recognize.

remember, "SJWs always lie."

he came here to fling poo.

he succeeded in flinging poo.

even though his hands are covered in shit, he's "winning".

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 11:23 AM  

"no he doesn't, not in any way that we would recognize."

my experience with these types...is that they will actually brag to their friends about this sort of conflict. They'll point it out to others to show how awesome they did.

I think you're mistaken Bob. I think he really believes he's super smart and he proved Vox is a dumb dumb.. and we're all dumb dumbs.

Blogger Russell April 29, 2015 11:24 AM  

@Trimegistus
"How can they negotiate the purchase of a computer, or find the money to buy one?"

They don't. It's their single mother's used, older computer in their basement.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 11:25 AM  

I think a useful addendum to "SJWs always lie" is "...and they believe their lies too."

Self-delusion is a potent thing.

Anonymous Caedryn April 29, 2015 11:27 AM  

You know what they say: "Build 1000 bridges and you're a bridgebuilder. Build 1000 bridges and suck a single cock and you're not a bridge builder, you're a cock sucker."

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 11:28 AM  

@Russell

The people who are usually SJW, and really originated the term, are those who really haven't had much to want. They never had to have reality stare them in the face.

So it'd be a new computer paid for by their single mother, in their own apartment that their single mom pays the rent on.

Blogger Chiva April 29, 2015 11:31 AM  

If that creature was trying to shock and repulse then it failed. I think Markku was correct in associating the "grotesque phantoms" of C.S. Lewis with this creature.

Anonymous Sevron April 29, 2015 11:33 AM  

This blog deserves a better class of troll than teenage girls, or middle-aged manboobs who mentally are teenage girls. I'm not going to give it to them, but I would hope somebody would.

If the rabbit is still reading (and you know you are, little bunny, you can't help yourself), I have this to say:
HHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 11:36 AM  

"If the rabbit is still reading (and you know you are, little bunny, you can't help yourself), I have this to say:
HHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOON"

So brave. Thanks for this.

Blogger GK Chesterton April 29, 2015 11:36 AM  

Though the most obvious way in which they can do so will mean cutting the ground right out from under the Hugos, rendering them a quaint curiosity, along the lines of "And here are the Hugos. Once upon a time, science fiction writers actually wanted them ..."

This would be by far the best result as only the "clique" would think so. If they abandon the Hugo's then we have effectively won. We get to honor them with good writers and move on.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 11:37 AM  

you're getting hung up on the fact that he intellectually beclowned himself ( doesn't know the difference between "drivel" and "dribble", etc ).

remember, actual accomplishment and competence ARE BLUE metrics. yes, to *US* he is obviously an idiot.

but that's not his point.

HIS point is too identify himself as part of the feelgoods, rightthinkings tribe. and to accuse us of being the 'other'.

and he has done this. he's Charlie Sheen winning, he is.

you're thinking "dumb dumbs" means low IQ. to *them*, it doesn't. to them, calling someone stupid merely indicates that you have not YET been properly socialized.

and they intend to fix that.

this problem has been around for a very, VERY long time. Dave Sim wrote the "12 impossible things to believe before breakfast" essay back around 1990. the Chinese cultural revolution started in the 60s. the Russians have been doing it since Lenin.

Blogger Russell April 29, 2015 11:40 AM  

@Student in Blue
"So it'd be a new computer paid for by their single mother, in their own apartment that their single mom pays the rent on."

You're probably more on target.

My mind reels at contemplating the uselessness of such a life.

Anonymous Caedryn April 29, 2015 11:43 AM  

It's also funny pulvatory doesn't understand why her own question isn't worth answering, as it has effectively infinite answers. For example:

"*Do* you admit I read through your dribble really fast?"
Maybe not Vox's, but you seemed to finish up your boyfriend's pretty quickly.

(spoiler alert, smarty pants: Its drivel)

Translated: MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Blogger Feather Blade April 29, 2015 11:52 AM  

I got rid of my smartphone. Now what?

Secret handshake, maybe? Or a set of matched passphrases? Maybe one person carrying an Italian newspaper and the other with a white carnation in his lapel!

Low tech? Sure, but classic

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 11:54 AM  

Maybe one person carrying an Italian newspaper and the other with a white carnation in his lapel!

No, the question is more difficult than two specific people meeting. This is an unknown, large number of people meeting. If the solution isn't going to be digital, then it will probably have to be some EPIC spy games.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 12:01 PM  

not really. call and response. the app broadcasts and recieves. you put it the call out message... when you recieve the proper response... the app marks Ilk.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:04 PM  

Yes, but that will be just ONE shared secret. If the adversary catches it, the plan is foiled and not only that, but now the adversary can identify all Ilk. Hence my idea of individual passwords that "touch" each other but are never actually sent wirelessly, private/public key style.

Imagine then if this network would be "bootstrapped" by secret instructions from Vox's lair, just to a couple of key individuals, and they would then meet up with others and tell them the plan, which would not have been told ANYONE prior to that? The possibilities!

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 12:06 PM  

two secrets.

You'd have to know the call... and the response.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 12:06 PM  

plus we'd change the code every day

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 12:07 PM  

Bah, just make a Dick Tracy watch and be done with it, Markku.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 12:07 PM  

Nate April 29, 2015 12:06 PM
You'd have to know the call... and the response.


open carry a 1911 would be simpler.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:08 PM  

Yes, but if the adversary catches either, it is useful against all ilk. If it is thte call, they can identify ilk by making the call and seeing them respond in a strange way. Or, if they get the response, they will hear secrets and give false instructions.

But with individual passwords, just the one node in the network is compromised.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:10 PM  

Imagine an ad hoc flash mob at WorldCon. Can you do fings with a flash mob? Eebul fings?

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 12:14 PM  

oh shit.

i figured the People's Republic of Washington would have banned open carry.

NOT TRUE!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States#Jurisdictions_in_the_United_States

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:17 PM  

LITERAL trigger warning...

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 12:17 PM  

evil things? like a spontaneous 'gun safety' demonstration?

Blogger Feather Blade April 29, 2015 12:18 PM  

I got rid of my smartphone. Now what?

Secret handshake, maybe? Or a set of matched passphrases? Maybe one person carrying an Italian newspaper and the other with a white carnation in his lapel!

Low tech? Sure, but classic

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 12:18 PM  

I think you're mistaken Bob. I think he really believes he's super smart and he proved Vox is a dumb dumb.. and we're all dumb dumbs.

The corollary, or perhaps addendum to the dictum that SJWs always lie is that they start by lying to themselves, not to you. The lies to you and everyone else are secondary. Simply by-products of the lies that they tell themselves, really.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 29, 2015 12:21 PM  

I think a technological call and response is inferior to an actual. vocal call and response. Because it out-groups the rabbits who aren't involved. And as they start to guess what it means, they'll be afraid. This would be both amusing and pragmatic for any Ilk who actually go to WorldCon.

It needs to be something that evolves over time, though, or the rabbits will simply be able to mimic it, which won't do at all.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 29, 2015 12:23 PM  

I know this has been discussed before, but what's with using Vox's real name as if it's some sort of insult or maybe using the fact that you know his real name, which is extremely easy to find, as some sort of marker of intellectual superiority?

I think I figured this one out. He writes (mostly) under the pen name Vox Day, so that's what us outsiders know him has. But the insiders, the members of the Club, they know him by his real name. It's just their way of claiming special status as insiders to the industry, like some wannabe Hollywooder calling Martin Scorcese "Marty".

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 12:25 PM  

Legionaires, I'm not so sure we'd even need to go crazy with any recognition signals, I'm fairly sure most of us would stand out from the typical con crowd, never mind SJWs.

Just look for the type that the rabbits will instinctively flee from, and there's your ELoE.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:36 PM  

Clearly you lack imagination, skiballa. Perhaps your mind just isn't suited to intrigue, cloak and dagger.

Blogger Daniel April 29, 2015 12:53 PM  

I know this has been discussed before, but what's with using Vox's real name as if it's some sort of insult or maybe using the fact that you know his real name, which is extremely easy to find, as some sort of marker of intellectual superiority?

They have taken him for the devil, and believe there is occult power in his secret name. Recite it with enough faith in their non-existent God, and they shall summon Vox himself to do their bidding. It is like Ordo Templi Orientis, but with fewer decent results and way worse sex. Apparently it involves paper cuts and a keyboard.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 12:56 PM  

It is like Ordo Templi Orientis

As the top, so the bottom, eh, BigGaySteve?

Blogger Russell April 29, 2015 12:59 PM  

Have everyone run up a flight of stairs.

The ones that make it without breaking sweat are Ilk, the ones needing emergency medical services aren't.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 1:00 PM  

Markku, I am not usually noted for my subtlety, not saying I'm not subtle, just that when I am, it's not noticed.

Subtlety and intrigue may be the way to go, but what's the fun if they don't know you're there?

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 1:02 PM  

Oh, they would know. At the correct moment.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 1:05 PM  

I'd be the type wearing a kilt, either traditional or one the more modern versions, going commando, and an offensive, firearm, or mil t-shirt, and waiting for someone to think I was fair game so I could black knight them for fun.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 1:06 PM  

" Oh, they would know. At the correct moment."

Well, sometimes you need someone to draw fire, a feint if you will.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 1:11 PM  

"Yes, but if the adversary catches either, it is useful against all ilk. If it is thte call, they can identify ilk by making the call and seeing them respond in a strange way. Or, if they get the response, they will hear secrets and give false instructions."

No.

You're over thinking this. You install the app. The app asks for the broadcast code and the recieve code. Broadcasts continually... recieves continually. would only show anything if it had a match.

Blogger Blume April 29, 2015 1:13 PM  

Actually no, gammas aren't stupid as a rule just self deluding.

Blogger skiballa April 29, 2015 1:14 PM  

Nate, that would probably work, there are veterans group apps, gaming apps, etc. that do something similar, showing where you are in relation to those on the same.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 1:14 PM  

Perhaps if it were made to mimic some existing protocol and therefore appear harmless, but the actual payload would be encoded to a secret location in the fake data

Blogger Markku April 29, 2015 1:16 PM  

Especially some protocol that SJW's love to use, like Instagram or Tumblr.

Blogger Russell April 29, 2015 1:16 PM  

Call: "Do you even lift?"

Response: "My daughter lifts more than me."

Confirm: "But your lawn?"

Response: "I can't mow it in my dress. Allergies, you know."

Anonymous SumDood April 29, 2015 1:19 PM  

"she means what she means REGARDLESS of what she actually says."

So she is the mayor of Baltimore?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 1:21 PM  

we can send out the codes on the other blog site... that way it will be secure. Stop worrying so much Marrku.

We got this.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 29, 2015 1:22 PM  

bob k. mando: "open carry a 1911 would be simpler.
.
.
.
oh shit.

i figured the People's Republic of Washington would have banned open carry.

NOT TRUE!
"


Even though it may be permissible by law, no doubt that law also allows private venues the right to refuse firearms themselves.

Which, unfortunately, the Spokane Convention Center does:

"Weapons and Concealed Handguns

In accordance with provisions of Municipal Code 10.10.050, it is the policy of the Spokane Convention Center that handguns and other weapons are strictly prohibited in Spokane Convention Center. Individuals who fail to comply with this prohibition or otherwise violate penal laws with respect to carrying a handgun or other weapon are subject to immediate arrest and prosecution. This prohibition applies to all persons including concealed handgun Licensees, with the exception of licensed law enforcement officers.
"

Anonymous Caedryn April 29, 2015 1:27 PM  

Oh, what about a keyword cipher using the 5th word of vox's first post of that day
or a decoder ring that comes in the bottom of a box of castalia house books?

Anonymous Caedryn April 29, 2015 1:30 PM  

Or we could use the post time to find the word from the post, effectively making a double layer cipher.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 1:33 PM  

do they know Neal Stephenson is Ilk?

Anonymous joe doakes April 29, 2015 1:46 PM  

Gamma Boy didn't go away because he was humiliated in defeat, but because he was frustrated at not being able to understand Manatee typed with a Southren accent. The lad's got a point.

Anonymous Sevron April 29, 2015 1:46 PM  

Is this actually true? I used to like his books, but he can't write women for shit and making a woman a central character in The Baroque Cycle lost me. Loved The Dianond Age though.

Met him at a book signing. He seemed like a real gentleman. I also supported his dueling video game kickstarter, wish it had worked out but no regrets.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 29, 2015 1:54 PM  

Would creating a Google account just to comment here intermittently be wise and secure? Please clear your cookies from the My Little Pony sites before you come here.

Google account established. Can now comment, as per rules, mostly un-anonymously. Umm....now what?Are your info are belong to us.

You could have used the name an URL option and put in your ex boyfriends webpage.

BigGaySteve, do you know who this queer is? I may have been around but I don't know everyone. A lot sound the same.

That cock will likely be the smartest thing to come out of your mouth all year. ...wait, do I need to explain that insult to you? The insult is that there is only one cock in his mouth all year.

wonder what she's going to do when BigGaySteve shows up? Its taking a while to get through all these comments. I was on the riot one for a while.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 2:04 PM  

"Especially some protocol that SJW's love to use, like Instagram or Tumblr."

instagram is a favorite of mine for this sort of thing. You name an object and share a photo with that object somewhere in it. This is an exceptional security protocol. almost impossible without instagram though

Blogger Franz Lionheart April 29, 2015 2:04 PM  

Part of my anger at Torgersen and Correia is because I feel like they deliberately encouraged this Us vs. Them mentality in order to win support and votes. They invented an evil cabal of “Them,” then rallied people to join their side against this fictitious enemy.

Having grown up as a Bavarian boy with a sound primary school education including Roman Catholic religious instruction, I well know this general rule of thumb : "What is at the core at all the Devil's sins? The lie. What is the Devil's biggest lie? That he tells the people : Don't worry about me, I don't even exist!"

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2015 2:09 PM  

Nate April 29, 2015 1:33 PM
do they know Neal Stephenson is Ilk?



oh, THAT'S why you're so bonkers about Cryptonomicon.

*spockbrow*

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 29, 2015 2:16 PM  

"VQPF on steroids"No... the Vox's Glock Owning Party Friends- There is more than just a glock in my safe but there is no point in arguing over make and caliber as the gun you carry beats whatever is in the safe.

Me and my black boyfriend are typing with one hand, Are you the one white gay in the US that doesn't have No Blacks on their GRINDR profile

A mobile app that will identify other ELoE members in the vicinity The black moslem serial killer of gays in 3 states Mohammad Ali Brown used GRINDR to find his victims. He was caught 2 weeks after the Ferguson liquor store robber was killed by officer Wilson.

SJW... are those who really haven't had much to want. They never had to have reality stare them in the face. ~ Its lack of punches to the face according to http://takimag.com/article/never_trust_anyone_who_hasnt_been_punched_in_the_face/print#axzz3YiuM7BWK

It is like Ordo Templi Orientis~ As the top, so the bottom, eh, BigGaySteve? I am not sure what you are asking. A quick search seams to associate that with the illuminati. When I said about the Temple of The Bacon Eating GRIDR Rabbi I was talking about this actual temple http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/31/meet-the-grindr-rabbi-who-says-the-gay-sex-app-can-bring-jews-together.html

Blogger Nate April 29, 2015 2:19 PM  

"there is no point in arguing over make and caliber as the gun you carry beats whatever is in the safe."

Its ok mate... my wife carries a Glock too.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2015 2:21 PM  

Its ok mate... my wife carries a Glock too.

You know... I've never seen Nate's wife and BigGaySteve in the same room together...

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 29, 2015 2:25 PM  

You know... I've never seen Nate's wife and BigGaySteve in the same room together...

We sneak out to the gun range together & I shoot cheap mil surp ammo through Nates guns for her so he thinks he forgot to clean them.

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