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Wednesday, April 08, 2015

To pretend and to shoot

It's time to take away the police excuse of "feeling threatened" for shooting someone or cutting them any slack when they kill someone. It should take a genius to know that basing law upon feelings is not the best idea, and it is becoming increasingly clear that the so-called "good cops" are perfectly willing to cover for the supposedly few "bad apples":
Patrolman Michael Slager, 33, opened fire on father-of-four Walter Scott, 50, in North Charleston, South Carolina, on Saturday morning after reportedly stopping him over a broken tail light.

Slager was arrested, jailed and charged with murder yesterday afternoon after the incendiary footage emerged. An outraged representative of Scott's family said: 'This was a cop who felt like he could get away with just shooting anybody that many times in the back.'

The killing comes at a time of mounting unrest over police use of force - particularly against black men - after violent protests erupted over the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson last summer.  Slager had previously defended his actions as being in line with procedure, saying he 'felt threatened' by the Coast Guard veteran.

The officer claimed Scott ran away after being pulled over at which point he tried to Taser him. But he claimed Scott managed to wrest the stun gun away, prompting him to draw his pistol. At no point in the video, which does not show the initial contact between the men, does Scott appear to be armed.

In the footage, Scott gets a few yards away before Slager opens fire - seven shots in quick succession followed by an eighth, with three of them missing. Scott collapses face-down on a patch of grass. Slager then walks over, shouts at him to put his hands behind his back, then handcuffs him.

Footage then appears to show Slager jogging back to the point where the Taser fell to the ground, bringing it over to Scott's body around 30 feet away and dropping it next to him.

According to police reports, officers performed CPR on the victim. But video shows that Scott remained face down on the floor for several minutes without being given any medical attention. It is only after two-and-a-half minutes that Slager is seen placing his hand on Scott's neck in an apparent attempt to check his pulse.
The police are not, contra their all-too-common assumptions, above the law. And if they are not held accountable by the justice system, it is entirely predictable that they will be brought to rough justice by vigilantes and family members seeking revenge. It is stupid and short-sighted for police officers to think they can continue to get away with dirty business as usual; the ever-present eyes of the Panopticon are watching them just like everyone else.

Remember the idea that with great power comes great responsibility? That means that those given badges and guns by the state or local government must be held MORE accountable than the average untrained citizen. Not less.

Labels:

104 Comments:

Blogger Salt April 08, 2015 8:11 AM  

Why would an unarmed 50 y/o black man, in a Mercedes no less, run from an armed white cop over a tail light? Why oh why?

Anonymous Fred April 08, 2015 8:16 AM  

I need a chart showing police shootings per year going back 20 years. Is it happening more often or is it being reported on more often. What's the trend?

Blogger Jason Rennie April 08, 2015 8:19 AM  

The solution to these problems is really straight forward I don't understand why it isn't being implemented forcibly everywhere on police departments.

Make all officers at all times while on duty be required to have 2 go-pro style cameras, with audio, running at all times with the video footage stored and available under FOIA or with a subpoena. 2 in case one breaks or malfunctions.

Make it a presumption of wrong doing when allegations are made against an on duty officer who has cameras not functioning or footage that is missing.

This would solve most of those "police brutality" accusations, and imagine how far the whole Ferguson lunacy would have gotten with video footage of the incident showing him attacking the officer and then charging the officer.

Blogger Josh April 08, 2015 8:23 AM  

Why would an unarmed 50 y/o black man, in a Mercedes no less, run from an armed white cop over a tail light? Why oh why?

In this case, it doesn't matter.

Blogger bob k. mando April 08, 2015 8:25 AM  

Salt April 08, 2015 8:11 AM
Why oh why?




doesn't really matter how much crack he was selling. the vic was still obviously offering NO THREAT to the officer.

also, you have to love the repeated demands to "put your hands behind your back" after he just filled the guy up with lead. as i've pointed out before, that's just kabuki theater for any bystanders so he can 'claim' that the vic was 'refusing to cooperate'.

being too fat to engage in a foot pursuit is no justification for murdering someone.

Blogger Salt April 08, 2015 8:26 AM  

Is it happening more often or is it being reported on more often

I have a dash cam in the car, but today I think I'll go to Best Buy, get a small HiDef video I can keep with me.

Blogger Josh April 08, 2015 8:27 AM  

I need a chart showing police shootings per year going back 20 years. Is it happening more often or is it being reported on more often. What's the trend?

Short answer: we don't really know because police departments don't really make a distinction between homicides and justified homicides.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 April 08, 2015 8:34 AM  

"Slager was arrested, jailed and charged with murder yesterday afternoon after the incendiary footage emerged"

Where's the beef?
Expect more details to "emerge". But it seems pretty clear at this point.
CaptDMO

Anonymous Observable Fact Man April 08, 2015 8:37 AM  

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2015 8:37 AM  

The solution to these problems is really straight forward I don't understand why it isn't being implemented forcibly everywhere on police departments.

Because if you go to your local city council meeting and argue for that, your neighbors will accuse you of being a dirty hippie and siding with criminals. Not to mention you might come out to find a cop putting a ticket on your car for that broken taillight you didn't know was broken.

Anonymous Omar's Running Shoes April 08, 2015 8:40 AM  

"Why would an unarmed 50 y/o black man, in a Mercedes no less, run from an armed white cop over a tail light? Why oh why?"

Perhaps he believed the policeman would murder him without justification.

I guess he was right.

Anonymous Sam the Man April 08, 2015 8:42 AM  

The moving of the tazer is the thing that will show bad intent.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2015 8:58 AM  

You know, what I was taught growing up by TV cop shows was that a cop pretty much can't shoot unless he's being shot at, and that his force had to be proportional. They were like white-hat gunfighters, expected to let the bad guy draw first. Shooting an unarmed man would get the cop fired at least, and likely imprisoned. There was story after story where a cop would shoot someone and then the guy would turn out to be reaching for a gun-shaped hairbrush or something, and then we'd feel bad for the cop as he was persecuted by Internal Affairs and go through a period of angst until he had a "good" shooting that proved he was a good guy after all.

Also, "bad" cops (whom we saw on Hill Street Blues, but didn't really think existed, certainly not among our sainted local boys in blue) would carry a "drop piece": an untraceable gun they could put in the hand of a dead criminal in case he didn't already have one. It was that important for a cop to be able to claim he was being shot at and defending himself.

So was that entirely TV fantasy? Did that attitude never exist, or was it pushed out by anti-terrorism and SWAT training that assumes everyone not in uniform is an enemy combatant until proved otherwise?

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 9:03 AM  

Why would an unarmed 50 y/o black man, in a Mercedes no less, run from an armed white cop over a tail light? Why oh why?

It says in the article. They just buried it way down (surprise). Scott had a warrant for his arrest. And he didn't want to be arrested.

There was clearly a chase and some kind of scuffle.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2015 9:03 AM  

Perhaps he believed the policeman would murder him without justification.

Yeah, when people ask "Why did he run?" I have to assume they've never been in a pressure situation with a cop. I've never run from one, but I certainly understand the impulse, and it's not dependent on whether you're doing anything particularly wrong at the time.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 08, 2015 9:09 AM  

If he was a violent criminal there may have been cause for deadly force but I doubt it because you need special permission. At any rate the use of deadly force does not require shooting 8 times and leaving the victim face down without medical attention for over two minutes.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 08, 2015 9:09 AM  

If he was a violent criminal there may have been cause for deadly force but I doubt it because you need special permission. At any rate the use of deadly force does not require shooting 8 times and leaving the victim face down without medical attention for over two minutes.

Blogger bob k. mando April 08, 2015 9:24 AM  

holy shit:
"Scott may have tried to run from the officer because he owed child support, which can get someone sent to jail in South Carolina until they pay it back, Stewart said.

...

According to the Post and Courier, Scott had a warrant out for his arrest from family court at the time of his death.

He has been arrested around ten times, mostly for contempt of court charges for failing to pay child support, included one accusation of a violation stemming from an assault and battery charge in 1987, the paper reported.


murdered-by-cop for failure to pay child support. oh yeah, that was a real risk to society you got rid of there you brave blue knight, you.

Anonymous Will Best April 08, 2015 9:26 AM  

The irony the blow back from this will be less than Fergeuson because the cop is guilty. So there won't need to be as big of a PR push to get him convicted.

Blogger Guitar Man April 08, 2015 9:27 AM  

Dude shouldn't have been black while driving a Mercedes.

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 9:27 AM  

Yeah, when people ask "Why did he run?" I have to assume they've never been in a pressure situation with a cop.

He continued running because he had just assaulted an officer after being chased down over his arrest warrant.

Say Slager continues chasing him. He has no backup. Scott has already violently resisting arrest.

When he catches up again, then what? Tazer already failed. Get into another physical struggle, risk Scott grabbing his gun?

I understand why he shot him.

Blogger Josh April 08, 2015 9:30 AM  

I understand why he shot him.

Fascist

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 9:36 AM  

Fascist

Didn't say I agreed. But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with:

1) Let the guy go.
2) Shoot him.

Blogger Josh April 08, 2015 9:39 AM  

Didn't say I agreed. But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with:

1) Let the guy go.
2) Shoot him.


All other options weren't exhausted.

And if those are your only options, I'm in favor of letting anyone who's not wanted for a violent crime go.

Unpaid child support is not in the same class as murder, rape, etc.

Blogger Josh April 08, 2015 9:42 AM  

Also, officers should use deadly force to protect their own lives.

I don't see where this pig's life was in danger.

You don't just shoot someone because he's running away.

Blogger David April 08, 2015 9:42 AM  

Vox, your final sentence is a complete encapsulation of what should be, and is not.

How can it be that a "professional" is not held to a higher standard than Joe Citizen? In the Post-9/11 deification of cops and firefighters, common sense has been entirely disposable.

Blogger David April 08, 2015 9:46 AM  

All laws are, in the end, enforced by people who will shoot you.

While this is expected when considering laws against murder, armed robbery, etc., what does it mean when we have an endless proliferation of "laws" regarding seat belt use, cell phone use, littering and even how much water a toilet can use when flushed?

Deaths of (not exclusively) marginal people will continue to rise as long as the state and its enforcers are used by Progressive-minded people to make the world "better."

Blogger Jassi April 08, 2015 9:49 AM  

I'm not the least bit sympathetic toward black people, and I personally feel that society is way too easy on them, but this shooting was really unnecessary.

If for no other reason, this cop should have refrained from eliminating this 33 year old youth simply to avoid sparking more race riots and giving the SJW's more fake problems to worry about.

Wasn't "let the vibrants do what they will do' supposed to be the new unspoken rule? Why are these foolish cops putting themselves and everyone at risk? Let the vibrants destroy. Let them show their true colors without resistance, and let their city destroying behaviors themselves disprove the SJW alliance's claims.

Blogger Tank April 08, 2015 9:51 AM  

DissidentRight

Fascist

Didn't say I agreed. But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with:

1) Let the guy go.
2) Shoot him.


How about follow him and call for back up? The guy was an old fat dude "running at about 2 MPH.

Anonymous ZhukovG April 08, 2015 9:52 AM  

As a former cop, this is as cold blooded a Murder by Cop as I have seen.

Ferguson was a regretable but justifiable shooting.

This isn't trying to stop a suspect from fleeing, this is deliberately trying to kill a suspect.

Blogger David April 08, 2015 9:53 AM  

The notion of shooting someone (who is otherwise in no position to threaten the cop) for whom there is an arrest warrant speaks volumes about:
1. how little regard for life exists among typical Americans
2. how little grasp of the effect of proliferation of criminal law in the USA and how each and every person unknowingly commits, as the book title states, "Three Felonies a Day."

For those who think this is just a black underclass problem, have you so quickly forgotten Rev. Niemoller's little ditty?

Blogger Nate April 08, 2015 9:53 AM  

" But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with:

1) Let the guy go.
2) Shoot him."

Because running up and tackling him isn't an option?

Or maybe.. I dunno... waiting till he goes home and arresting him there?

Oh why I am bothering?

Shut up dude.

Anonymous Will Best April 08, 2015 9:58 AM  

Wasn't "let the vibrants do what they will do' supposed to be the new unspoken rule?

All men must be brought to their knees before the Court of Womanhood. You let 1 black get away, and the next thing you know its a Hispanic or god forbid a white.

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 9:59 AM  

How about follow him and call for back up? The guy was an old fat dude "running at about 2 MPH

That's what I would have done, anyway.

And if those are your only options, I'm in favor of letting anyone who's not wanted for a violent crime go.

That sounds reasonable, but I can easily imagine why others might disagree. What good are laws if they aren't being enforced? And I don't mean any old silly law. I mean laws against theft.

Unpaid child support is not in the same class as murder, rape, etc.

Of course. Just like how running, resisting arrest, and struggling with an officer for a taser is not in the same class as peacefully submitting.

You don't just shoot someone because he's running away.

If he was going to shoot him "for running away", he would have done that before the struggle even happened. He had already chased Scott from his car. He shot him because he didn't want to risk trying to subdue him again.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 08, 2015 10:07 AM  

My problem is that after Ferguson, I'm very skeptical of reporting of a police office shooting a black man who was offering him no harm. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that when I hear it, my first response is no longer, That's horrible! but, Really? Are you sure?

Blogger Chris Mallory April 08, 2015 10:12 AM  

"What good are laws if they aren't being enforced? And I don't mean any old silly law. I mean laws against theft."

You would be surprised how often laws against theft aren't enforced. Arresting people for theft would mean dealing with actual criminals. Criminals are often dangerous. Much safer to run traffic ticket scams and to arrest people for not paying child support.

" resisting arrest"
Should not be a crime.

"struggling with an officer for a taser "
The citizen has the right of self defense. No reason to even draw the taser or chase the guy down. You have his car. You in all probablity have his address. Wait a couple hours and have a couple officers in dress uniform go knock on his door and arrest him. If it gets cops killed, too bad, so sad. That is the risk they agreed to take when they started taking the King's coin.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 08, 2015 10:13 AM  

Blacks vs cops, no matter who wins, whites lose.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2015 10:19 AM  

What good are laws if they aren't being enforced?

You can faithfully enforce the law without enforcing it to the hilt immediately in every situation. Presumably, this cop would not have fired at the guy if he'd run through a schoolroom full of children. The danger of hitting an innocent person would trump the need to enforce the law at that moment, even at the risk of the man getting away completely.

But when the life in danger is that of a suspect -- someone the cop has already judged guilty in his mind -- then apparently his life doesn't count in that equation at all. If killing him now will reduce your chance of failing to enforce the law later, then start blasting.

Anonymous clk April 08, 2015 10:21 AM  

Hey .. anyone hear of a policing policy called "broken windows" .. if you punish the people hard enough for minor infractions they dont commit the bigger crimes.... just shooting one dead beat Dad should make the rest pay up in full..... :)




Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 08, 2015 10:23 AM  

The logical conclusion to the War on men

Blogger Jassi April 08, 2015 10:23 AM  

"Blacks vs cops, no matter who wins, whites lose."

This pretty much sums up the entire situation.

Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber April 08, 2015 10:24 AM  

If the man was running away, you don't shoot. Looks like a murder to me. Plain fact. Some that cold blooded, makes me wonder if there isn't something personal going on.

Blogger JartStar April 08, 2015 10:24 AM  

I had the opportunity to talk to the lead AP journalist for over an hour about Ferguson and Michael Brown a couple of months back. This journalist is a man I respect and have known for decades and is such a stickler for the facts that he sometimes agitates his bosses who wants more sensationalism. He led up a team of about 1/2 a dozen other reporters who spent days going through thousands of court documents relating to the shooting, besides being there at night when teargas was flying and during a random shooting as well while he was interviewing Michael Brown's father.

He came to the conclusion that the shooting was justified and Michael Brown had numerous occasions in which to comply and deescalate the situation. A couple of facts: He was so high as possibly hallucinating, there was a struggle in the car for the gun, it had gone off so closely he had powder residue on his hands, he had fled, he had turned around before being shot. What happened at the very end we may never know (charging or not), but this young man was not innocent of fighting with a police officer. It was arguably a tragedy, but it was justified--and he said that it was very obvious that so many "eye-witnesses" on both sides weren't even there and had flat out lied.

There is no comparison of the above to what was just witnessed in this video. Michael Brown was not a 50 year old man running at about 2 MPH getting gunned down from behind in a hail of bullets, and then the police office planted evidence next to him.

I know that there are some on the right which always defend the police and think they can do no wrong and you are part of the problem. You are allowing them blow away 50 year old men in the back and plant evidence. You are helping breakdown the trust between the police and the population at large. You are helping bring about a police state and one day they will come for you as well.

Anonymous Stilicho April 08, 2015 10:25 AM  

What good are laws if they aren't being enforced? And I don't mean any old silly law. I mean laws against theft.

See what I was talking about the other day when I said this:

There is a very unthinking, teutonic strain of order uber alles that permeates the feelings of many Americans. If there is a rule, then it must be followed.

As for this: Wait a couple hours and have a couple officers in dress uniform go knock on his door and arrest him

That would never happen, they'd at least have to SWAT up and conduct a no-knock raid, lest he flush the evidence (himself) down the toilet...

Blogger ajw308 April 08, 2015 10:30 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Donn April 08, 2015 10:39 AM  

It's a bad shoot and a bad after shoot. No question. Now we need to find out why (there might have been more people involved). Good call on arresting him. He'll be in PC for a very long time.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 08, 2015 10:41 AM  

Another father killed because of the broken child support system in our country.

Blogger Noah B April 08, 2015 11:11 AM  

I predict that since this appears to be an actual example of a cop murdering a citizen, this will get downplayed by the media and receive significantly less coverage than either the shootings of Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2015 11:36 AM  

See what I was talking about the other day when I said this:

There is a very unthinking, teutonic strain of order uber alles that permeates the feelings of many Americans.


Yep, that's what I was thinking of when I said if you go to your local city council meeting and criticize the cops, people will ostracize you as a hippie who's probably hiding some kind of criminal behavior. They see nothing wrong with random searches and regular background checks -- what, ya got something to hide? As far as they're concerned, the cops are still basically Andy Taylor and Joe Friday, and if they come to your door, you must have done something to bring them there. It's not that they're in favor of authoritarianism, because they don't need it themselves, but they aren't resistant to it either. They'd be orderly either way, so they don't see the big deal.

Interestingly, one of the local Catholic parishes is having a kerfuffle right now because the diocese now requires you to take the "You're Probably a Child Molester" class if you want to be involved in ANY volunteer activities at church, and it includes a background check. (It's an attempt to forestall liability, which won't work, but anyway...) Enough of the parishioners refused that the parish was unable to put on a recent fundraising dinner -- not enough people qualified to volunteer. What's interesting is that this parish is in a fairly Dutch neighborhood, compared to the German parishes around it which didn't put up a fuss. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Anonymous supersnake11 April 08, 2015 11:51 AM  

DissidentRight, you remind me of an SS officer. Pardon my weak imitation of a German accent via a keyboard.

"What good are laws if they aren't being enforced?"
Ze only vay to enforce ze law is to shoot ze filthy rebel. Resist ze law and you vill die!

"struggling with an officer for a taser is not in the same class as peacefully submitting."
You must peacefully submit to ze Reich! Resist ze Reich and you vill be shot!

"He shot him because he didn't want to risk trying to subdue him again."
I don’t vant to get my vonderful uniform dirty. Zee only vay to subdue zee enemy is to shoot zem!

"I understand why he shot him."
Yes, he vas trying to purge ze Fatherland of rebels. Very efficient too. If you refuse to pay ze child support you vill be shot!


Since when did “resisting” warrant the death penalty? Whatever happened to the good cop who could maintain control of the criminal in a petty situation like this one?

Anonymous patrick kelly April 08, 2015 11:55 AM  

" He shot him because he didn't want to risk trying to subdue him again."

That is not a reasonable justification for killing someone. A cop who will kill for this reason is a bigger danger and menace to the public than the guy resisting arrest to evade a warrant for child support.


Anonymous Curtis April 08, 2015 11:59 AM  

Didn't say I agreed. But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with:

1) Let the guy go.
2) Shoot him.


Please take your hand off your crotch and stop gyrating your loins in orgasmic adulation over copdom. It is really unbecoming of a man.

Maybe this explains his "resisting arrest": 6 'invisible' signs that a subject is resisting a police officer - http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/8516458-6-invisible-signs-that-a-subject-is-resisting-a-police-officer/

Anonymous FP April 08, 2015 12:02 PM  

Resisting arrest by not pulling over on a dark road at night...

http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/03/indiana-nurse-resisting-arrest

Obey your masters, or get shot, slave er I mean citizen. Yeah, thats the ticket. $200 for a broken tail-light.

Anonymous clk April 08, 2015 12:03 PM  

"teutonic strain of order uber alles"

Can someone translate this please ---

it seems like its "the Germanic/Nordic predisposition of imposing social/society order above all else (ie over personal/individual rights)"

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 08, 2015 12:05 PM  

The notion of shooting someone (who is otherwise in no position to threaten the cop) for whom there is an arrest warrant speaks volumes about:
1. how little regard for life exists among typical Americans


One is reminded of how prison rape is a subject of humour in American culture/media.

Anonymous FP April 08, 2015 12:10 PM  

So, has policeone.com actually hidden all comments from public view now? I know they've required commenters to be vetted cops since I've known of the site in two years or so but hiding them from public view is most amusing.

Anonymous Curtis April 08, 2015 12:10 PM  

Yep, that's what I was thinking of when I said if you go to your local city council meeting and criticize the cops, people will ostracize you as a hippie who's probably hiding some kind of criminal behavior.

Like this from a recent conversation on daily rag:

So he "turned on his lights and siren", so he/they says. But again, the deputy is going NORTH. The Cruz is going NORTH. The deputy claims he turned on his lights and siren, straddles the single double line to make a u-turn SOUTH in the middle of Highway 395. He/they then claims that the Cruz, rather than passing the deputy in the NORTH bound lane, with all that room before them, attempted to pass the deputy in the ONCOMING SOUTHBOUND lane. Assuming what the deputy says is true about his lights and siren, it is entirely possible that ossifer safety there got in a big hurry to suddenly turn on his lights and siren and STOP/ROLL into the single double lines without warning. There IS such a thing as reaction time, BOZO. But, I am still not buying that the Cruz attempted to pass this cop by going from the NORTHBOUND LANE, around the deputy and into the SOUTHBOUND INCOMING LANE, when the driver of the Cruz had the whole Northbound lane before them, by the very fact that the deputy claims he was straddling/pulling into, the single double line leaving the WHOLE Northbound lane open. Either some other mitigating circumstance was left out of the story, or someone is lying to cover their a**, it certainly wouldn't be the first time. But then again, I don't have my hand on my crotch and gyrating my loins and saying, "The cops say so! It must be true!" The whole happenstance, as detailed in the story doesn't make sense, unless you have your hand on your crotch.

Ok well clearly you have an axe to grind and dont like cops. Good luck with that. Too bad you arent either qualified to become one or man enough to become one.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 08, 2015 12:11 PM  

So was that entirely TV fantasy? Did that attitude never exist, or was it pushed out by anti-terrorism and SWAT training that assumes everyone not in uniform is an enemy combatant until proved otherwise?

I think Law Enforcement attracts two types of people: the sort of "serve and protect" good guys celebrated by those old TV shows, and Little Bill Dagget style bullies who like the idea of having authority. How much of each kind you have in a given police department depends a lot on the folks running it and what their priorities are. if the Police Chief and the Mayor and the local DA, judges, etc. have protecting the citizens of their community from criminals, they'll get more of the good cops. If they have revenue enhancement, nanny-stating and Social Justice Warrioring as their priorities, they'll get more of the bad cops.

Or maybe it's as simple as whether the folks running things think of themselves as citizens of their communities, or as barons who rule over the citizens.

Anyway, short answer, I don't think it was entirely fantasy, but like so much of civilization, it wasn't something that just happened. It took the sort of effort and judgement we don't get from elected officials these days.

Anonymous AlteredFate April 08, 2015 12:11 PM  

I get the feeling that video is a fugazi. Something seems off about it. A cop who would gun someone down in cold blood like depicted would not then just stand there and let a bystander film him plant a taser. Also the impeccable timing of whomever captured the video...just in time to film the shooting, but not in time to see the 15 seconds before? After Newtown, no one can blame me for being skeptical.

Anonymous cheddarman April 08, 2015 12:18 PM  

"teutonic strain of order uber alles" - The Scotts-Irish in me has contempt for this. Very few things in life make me grin from ear to ear more than seeing a traffic sign somewhere in rural America, most likely the South or Appalachian counties of the U.S. shot full of bullet holes.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 08, 2015 12:21 PM  

it seems like its "the Germanic/Nordic predisposition of imposing social/society order above all else (ie over personal/individual rights)"

Do keep in mind this nordic predisposition of following rules originally came as a package with the predisposition of expecting the people making the rules to follow them as well.

murdered-by-cop for failure to pay child support. oh yeah, that was a real risk to society you got rid of there you brave blue knight, you.

Well, look at it this way - there should be enough money left from the wrongful death suit to get the guy out of arrears on his child support.

Or maybe.. I dunno... waiting till he goes home and arresting him there?

That's what I just don't undersatnd. From news reports anyway, it seems like the majority of arrest warrants sit in a computer waiting for the guy to get pulled over in a traffic stop. Maybe if there were fewer revenue enforcement operations, there might be more time for proactively serving arrest warrants.

As Chris Mallory pointed out, the priorities our justice system has aren't quite the same as the average taxpayer's

Anonymous Curtis April 08, 2015 12:22 PM  

After Newtown, no one can blame me for being skeptical.

An appeal to your female side.

Meanwhile, cop fears for his life, shoots 12 inch miniature pig, says was ordered to: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/officer-feared-life-shot-killed-familys-tiny-miniature-pig/

Anonymous clk April 08, 2015 12:23 PM  

"It's not that they're in favor of authoritarianism, because they don't need it themselves, but they aren't resistant to it either. They'd be orderly either way, so they don't see the big deal."

Is this a bad thing ? These seem to be actually western, christian values/virtues - not those of a unthinking person but rather of someone which has a strong morals and is self civilized... so their fault is only assuming that all people are as civilized at themselves .. not bad people to be around --- works/worked in homogenous societies like Norse countries and the US midwest...

Anonymous Dan in Tx April 08, 2015 12:26 PM  

It seems that there are far too many cops that are simply in the wrong profession. If you are that much in fear, then you need to find another line of work. There is no shame in that. I have worked in various forms of the prison system before and you are not allowed any sort of actual weapons (the closest thing being a flashlight). There was more than once I was wading through a crowd of hostiles with more flying around to cuff two guys fighting. Not bragging but it was just part of the job. The point is: if this cop was so fearful (to be honest, he just looks trigger happy in the video) or lazy to go after an older guy that was running at a speed that is more like a fast walk, he was seriously in the wrong line of work.

As to conservatives always defending the cops, no matter how egregious the case may be: increasingly whites (not necessarily incorrectly, by the way) see the cops as the only thing standing between themselves and the violent black hordes. Blacks always defend each other no matter what they do (see Michael Brown / Trevon Martin). More and more, whites are feeling they need to do the same.

Anonymous clk April 08, 2015 12:26 PM  

But yes .. it bothers the Scotsman in me too...

"Damn those Scots .. your ruining Scotland..."

Blogger grendel April 08, 2015 12:33 PM  

Since basically every traffic law is a form of prior restraint, I'd be good with doing away with all of them. No more shootings that start with a taillight.

Anonymous clk April 08, 2015 12:36 PM  

"Do keep in mind this nordic predisposition of following rules originally came as a package with the predisposition of expecting the people making the rules to follow them as well"

Agreed ...I greatly admire the germans and other nordics (being a desendant of both as well) but there are times when the german desire of order gets out of control -- like when they start goose stepping invading the world (reference WW1, WW2, The EU, the world cup .. examples abound)

Anonymous Curtis April 08, 2015 12:36 PM  

“We don’t have a quota. We have expectations. And what that means is, you will make so many arrests a month, you should write so many tickets a month, and you should haul so many dumbasses to jail a month. If we’re gonna pay you $100,000 a year, we should expect something back from you, shouldn’t we?” says the officer.

“You better wipe that smile off your face brother, or I’ll show ya,” says the officer.

The officer replies, “Yeah, but you know what? I’m the guy that can make that record look dirty.”

“I didn’t give you permission!” says the officer as he yanks the phone from the teen’s hand.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/shock-video-3-minutes-cop-admits-quotas-falsifying-charges-extorting-poor/

But ya know, a cop would never murder a mundane.

Anonymous buzzcut April 08, 2015 12:40 PM  

Good Evening, Sir. Just wanted to let you know your tail light is out. Please get it fixed. Have a nice night."

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2015 12:41 PM  

But when the other options for executing an arrest warrant have been exhausted, you are left with: ... 1) Let the guy go. ... 2) Shoot him.

And unless the suspect is a threat to the cops or the public, the default police position is supposed to be 1).

Blogger grendel April 08, 2015 12:52 PM  

Re: cop shoots pet miniature pig.

In Oregon a cop recently shot a pony because he thought it was hurt. Turns out it was just lying down. He waved off the vet and shot it. Effing cops are obsessed with using their guns. Maybe if they went to the range more they wouldn't be so thirsty to fire their guns inappropriately. Lawful concealed carriers manage not to shoot every dog that barks at them. Even Mookie in da hood can manage to keep his gat in his pants when Jaequons dog growls at him.

Blogger Joshua_D April 08, 2015 12:58 PM  

Tank April 08, 2015 9:51 AM

How about follow him and call for back up? The guy was an old fat dude "running at about 2 MPH.


Right? Just jog behind him, call for backup, and report your location. If the man had turned and started running toward the cop, then the cop would have actually had justification for the shooting. When I first watched the video, I thought, "Is that guy pretend running? Wth?" and then bam, bam, bam.

Blogger S1AL April 08, 2015 1:03 PM  

Y'know... I can understand the use of deadly force in tense situations where it was questionable. I get that. As a private citizen, you put me in a situation where my life/physical well-being appear to be threatened? Yeah, good chance I react violently. But this? I just don't get it. There's no point here, unless there was something very serious that happened before the video, where I can say: "Yeah, that might have been justified." I'm generally pretty pro-law-enforcement (son of a sheriff's deputy), and I just can't see any angle here that justifies shooting the guy.

Blogger Giraffe April 08, 2015 1:09 PM  

RE the cop shooting the pig,

Apparently there is a standing order to shoot pigs because feral hogs are becoming established in that state. So if I saw a pig it would be natural to assume it was a wild one. If it came towards me instead of trying to run away, I'd be thinking the damn thing has rabies and I'd shoot it too. The story linking above only has the family's side of the story.

Plus it was a wildlife officer, not a cop. Plenty of dickheads in that part of law enforcement too, but I'll reserve judgement.

Maybe the guy was a dick, but a wildlife officer isn't a guy who is going to be afraid of a pet pot bellied pig, if that is what he knew it was.

Anonymous carry permit holder April 08, 2015 1:48 PM  

Pretend it had been a private citizen. Apply the laws of your state. What result?

In Minnesota, the right to use deadly force ended the instant the villain broke off the physical assault to run away. Whatever self-defense justification might have existed before, evaporated. After that, it's just plain murder. I had to learn that before I got a permit to carry a pistol.

Is there a separate justification in the cop's state? Is it legal to shoot to halt a fleeing felon? Do they allow Summary Execution of Deadbeat Dads? What did the cop learn about deadly force before they let him carry his pistol?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2015 2:06 PM  

Good Evening, Sir. Just wanted to let you know your tail light is out. Please get it fixed. Have a nice night."

Had a nice lady NCPD officer tell me that almost verbatim about 4 years ago, within a mile of where this happened.

Blogger Noah B April 08, 2015 2:09 PM  

"Is it legal to shoot to halt a fleeing felon?"

Debatable, but the victim here was not a common law felon. There's no justification for this one.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 08, 2015 2:15 PM  

Where is the footage from seconds before? There was a story that the raw video showed multiple felonies with a thug coming up behind a cop to attack him during a traffic stop that thanks to biased media & 27+ video edits with cursing silenced out became "cops shoot van full of kids" where just 8 seconds of video from before the shot fired would have made it obvious that the cop was in the right. If you want Mayberry style policing you need a citizenry that acts like Mayberry, the other option is having politically correct pansies that ignore little white girls being raped by 3rd world moslems because they are afraid of being called racist. Cops in San Fran won't bother to investigate anything less than murder when victim & perp are both protected victim classes.

So many Hoaxes have been disproved via dash cam including the recent Empire Starlet claiming her kid was inne cent while the released cop cam showed the cop actually gave her son a break by not charging him on everything that was evident on the video. Here is a story about a cops career being saved by a recording http://nypost.com/2011/12/10/lying-lawyer-slapped-2/

"the cops are still basically.... and if they come to your door, you must have done something to bring them there. "

You mean like invited them over for a BBQ, since I used to be an EMT/"Amber Lamps" driver and part of the first responder community?

"makes me wonder if there isn't something personal going on."

Some repeat offenders are like the homeless that are not allowed to enter homeless shelters because of their past actions so they spend most of the winter nights in ER waiting rooms. After a news story about a dead patient in an ER waiting room who had their watch stolen on security cam, I started an awkward discussion for what we would do if one died in the waiting room because there is a high likely hood when their time comes they might be in the waiting room with us thinking they are asleep.

"see the cops as the only thing standing between themselves and the violent black hordes"

I now live in a castle law state & the golden horde has a way to go to find me.

"Good Evening, Sir. Just wanted to let you know your tail light is out. Please get it fixed. Have a nice night."

Tim McVeigh would not have been caught when he was pulled over by your milquetoast cop . Cops run the plates of people they pull over before they get out of their car to know if there is a warrant associated with the owner like this guy did. If you are driving a Mercedes pay your child support. I never even touched LaTrina yet my paycheck has money taken out of it to pay for her 21 crack babies.

Please take your hand off your crotch and stop gyrating your loins in orgasmic adulation over copdom. It is really unbecoming of a man".

This is awkward. Is acceptable to you if I put my hand on the crotch of a sheriff's adult son in the privacy of my home?

"Debatable, but the victim here was not a common law felon."

We don't have his full history, Eric Gardner was killed for not paying taxes on cigs but he was arrested 30+ times including for a sex crime. His full history would have popped up when the license plate was run on his car.

Anonymous Curtis April 08, 2015 2:22 PM  

RE the cop shooting the pig,

Re: Law Enforcement Officer.

Rabies. Good one.

Anonymous Alexander April 08, 2015 2:22 PM  

Much like how I now assume ever rape to be a hoax, I'm afraid I must default to:

- Black man was doing more than he let on
- But that doesn't mean the cop isn't guilty

Frankly, if cops decide that they're being unfairly railed against, let's see them all demand body cameras. After all, the got nothing to worry about if they ain't guilty...

But yeah. Black man dindu nuttin. Okay.

Blogger Noah B April 08, 2015 2:28 PM  

"We don't have his full history, Eric Gardner was killed for not paying taxes on cigs but he was arrested 30+ times including for a sex crime. His full history would have popped up when the license plate was run on his car."

The fleeing felon rule was a principle of common law that allowed the use of deadly force to apprehend someone wanted for a common law felony (murder, theft, rape, etc). Past criminal history is totally irrelevant in this regard.

Anonymous DT April 08, 2015 2:38 PM  

Alexander - at this point my list of assumptions includes...

* Every rape is a hoax until proven otherwise.
* The black guy was likely doing more then he let on.
* The cop is lying and the force was likely excessive and/or the charges falsified.
* The child support order is simple thievery.
* The Amber Alert is likely a dad trying to escape with kids he will otherwise never see again.
* The politician is lying.
* The politician is thieving.
* The banker is lying and thieving.
* If a person is working for FedGov, that person is lying, thieving, AND breaking our most sacred laws.
* If the science is settled or 97% agree, it's likely a theory that has already been provably falsified.
* She has slept with 3x the number of guys she claims.

Christ can't return soon enough.

Anonymous Cheddarman April 08, 2015 2:45 PM  

"Agreed ...I greatly admire the germans and other nordics (being a desendant of both as well) but there are times when the german desire of order gets out of control -- like when they start goose stepping invading the world (reference WW1, WW2, The EU, the world cup .. examples abound)" - clk


clk, being half German myself, i would argue that goose stepping and invading other countries IS the world cup for Germans. What we call the world cup, they call it something else

Anonymous FP April 08, 2015 2:48 PM  

"If you are driving a Mercedes pay your child support. I never even touched LaTrina yet my paycheck has money taken out of it to pay for her 21 crack babies."

Classist. Go cry to the idiots who passed those welfare laws. Go complain to the US CONgress that made it federal law that no child support order is dischargable, even if found to be false.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 08, 2015 3:06 PM  

"deadly force to apprehend someone wanted for a common law felony (murder, theft, rape, etc). Past criminal history is totally irrelevant in this regard."

Tony Robinson was unarmed when shot by WI police but was on probation for armed robbery, should cops ignore their knowledge of the perps previous crimes?

Let me tell you about how I had 3 encounters with the same STR8 cop that I didn't even realize until he brought it up. He said " I have been here 3 times in last 2 years and I always end up getting you" I said "Sir if there is a problem I can find someone else but it might take a while". He said "Its ok I just wanted to know why I always get you" I told him "I am only scheduled to work here on Friday and Sat nights but it pays better than 5 days a week at a nicer hospital 45 min away, so it must be something about the city on Fri/Sat nights that makes people want to fight cops" I had not remembered our previous encounters but the 6 foot+ guy with tropical scrubs is easy to remember. If I smoked & gossiped there might have been a fair chance of him getting someone else.

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2015 3:06 PM  

A new report by ThinkProgress.com unearthed disturbing figures when it came to the number of police-related deaths that occurred in America in the month of March alone.



Just last month, in the 31 days of March, police in the United States killed more people than the UK did in the entire 20th century. In fact, it was twice as many; police in the UK only killed 52 people during that 100 year period.



According to the report by ThinkProgess, in March alone, 111 people died during police encounters — 36 more than the previous month.



This high number in March increased the average for police killings from every 8.5 hours, to nearly 1 police killing every 6.5 hours in the US.



China, whose population is 4 and 1/2 times the size of the United States, recorded 12 killings by law enforcement officers in 2014.

On average, US police kill people at a rate 70 times higher than any of the other first world countries as they “protect and serve” American citizens

Anonymous Alexander April 08, 2015 3:17 PM  

Yes, well. Let me tell you a little secret about the demographics of the United Kingdom in the 20th century.

Looking at the wiki, there's a single case in the 1920's of a copy shooting someone in the UK, then a hold until the late 70s. Then it slowly picks up through the 90s, and by the 21st century we're seeing definite signs of exactly what you'd expect.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 08, 2015 3:33 PM  

"zen0 April 08, 2015 3:06 PM A new report by ThinkProgress.com unearthed disturbing figures when it came to the number of police-related deaths that occurred in America in the month of March alone."

Let me point you to Operation Trident one of the more honest descriptions of the demographics of crime in the land where most LEOs are not allowed to have guns. "Operation Trident or Trident, is a Metropolitan Police Service unit targeting gun crime and homicide in London's black communities. " That explains the 50 year gap in crime, it was imported.

"China, whose population is 4 and 1/2 times the size of the United States, recorded 12 killings by law enforcement officers in 2014"

Yet as many striking black miners where gunned down by Chinese in a single day, I agree with your point that Asians commit less crime.
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Chinese-bosses-shoot-protesting-Zambian-miners-20101016

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2015 4:51 PM  

The cop's been fired.

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 4:56 PM  

You would be surprised how often laws against theft aren't enforced. Arresting people for theft would mean dealing with actual criminals.

That's the point, if we can't even enforce legitimate laws, the government should not waste its time with silly ones.

cailcorishev: You can faithfully enforce the law without enforcing it to the hilt immediately in every situation.

That's a contradiction, unless the law is _eventually_ "enforced to the hilt" in every situtation.

JartStar: I know that there are some on the right which always defend the police and think they can do no wrong and you are part of the problem. You are allowing them blow away 50 year old men in the back and plant evidence. You are helping breakdown the trust between the police and the population at large. You are helping bring about a police state and one day they will come for you as well.

Oh please. Trust has already been destroyed. We already have a police state. This thanks to 1) blacks and 2) progressives, who will always smear the police 100% of the time, regardless of whether or not what the police did was reasonable. Surprise, this encourages further police corruption! Given the choice between a black with some kind of record who is resisting arrest...and the police, yeah, I will side with the police almost every time. (Not in this case, though.) Until we accept that race-based policing policies are good and necessary, this will never stop.

Stilicho: See what I was talking about the other day when I said this: There is a very unthinking, teutonic strain of order uber alles that permeates the feelings of many Americans. If there is a rule, then it must be followed.

What part of it is unthinking? Most of the laws are stupid and should not exist, let alone be enforced. But certain laws (e.g., property rights) should certainly be absolutely enforced under all circumstances.

cailcorishev: They see nothing wrong with random searches and regular background checks -- what, ya got something to hide?

...um, that's because open racial discrimination is frowned upon.

supersnake11: Since when did “resisting” warrant the death penalty? Whatever happened to the good cop who could maintain control of the criminal in a petty situation like this one?

It obviously doesn't warrant the death penalty. And racial egalitarianism killed the good cops.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 08, 2015 5:15 PM  

"And racial egalitarianism killed the good cops."

Nope, it was the War on (some) Drugs and the War on "Terrer" that killed the good cops. Throw in a little hysteria about drunk drivers and you have the soup we are now being served. Both are progressive causes championed by so called conservatives.

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 5:38 PM  

You don't have to look very far to cast some blame for the problem on genuine (more or less) conservatives. Although mostly just ignorant ones.

However, to say "Nope" is absurd. Who are the drug war's intended/actual targets? Blacks. Silly laws don't help, but no police system can survive having to lie about diversity.

I really wish all the police who have to deal with blacks would do exactly what the progressives (and blacks) want. Refuse to enforce the law.

The progressives will tire of the mayhem real fast. But the police won't come back except on condition that 1) no one ever complains about disparate impact, and 2) that examples of black dysfunction (esp. in their interactions with the police) have a permanent place as front-page news.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni April 08, 2015 5:49 PM  

I'm waiting for the Feminazis to show up and argue that a guy who drives a Mercedes and doesn't pay his child support SHOULD be shot.

Anonymous Heaviside April 08, 2015 5:54 PM  

As soon as I read he was black I lost all sympathy for him.

Blogger JDC April 08, 2015 6:11 PM  

that's just kabuki theater for any bystanders so he can 'claim' that the vic was 'refusing to cooperate'.

I am surprised he wasn't screaming stop resisting.

Anonymous Anubis April 08, 2015 7:03 PM  

While I am ok with higher fine for criminals this is heading in the wrong direction.
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&article_id=2108&issue_id=62010
Generating New Revenue Streams Paul LaCommare, Commander, West Covina Police Department, West Covina, California
Possible New Revenue Streams
fine increases by 50 percent,• pay-per-call policing, • vacation house check fees, triple driving-under-the-influence fines by the court,
• resident fee similar to a utility tax,• tax or fee on all alcohol sold in the city,• tax or fee on all ammunition sold in, the city,public safety fees on all new development in the city, • 9-1-1 fee per use,• police department–run firearm safety classes.




Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber April 08, 2015 7:42 PM  

Steve, my comment was really about what brought all that on. What happened before the video? It seemed like there had to be a reason to shoot like that.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 08, 2015 9:28 PM  

"Who are the drug war's intended/actual targets? Blacks."

Funny,the faces I see on the news being arrested are white. Blacks do not make up enough of the population for the cops to be so out of control. These thugs aren't just limited to a few urban cesspits, the rot has reached the entire nation. There are no good cops, really there have never been any good cops.

I have family who are cops, were cops back in the 60s and 70s. They were crooked back then. Always talking about the latest gun they stole off a citizen. Always with a garage full of booze they had taken from people. Anyone who wants the power of a cop should be kept far from it.

Anonymous DissidentRight April 08, 2015 9:44 PM  

It's a common complaint on sites like VDARE that the media intentionally over-represents whites in its coverage of criminals.

Meanwhile the arrest and prison statistics paint a darker picture.

Anonymous Anubis April 08, 2015 11:03 PM  

"Funny,the faces I see on the news being arrested are white"

After the rolling stone piece was shown to be a hoax Thinkprogress went and posted info about 3 ongoing trials of campus gang rape to prove gang raps on campus was a significant problem. If anyone did more investigation into the cases mentioned they saw that all 3 where black on white gang rapes, but you wouldn't know from think progress. News will also use stock photos of whites when covering crime info like a pair of white hands in handcuffs to cover the story of EBT fraud.

Anonymous Anubis April 08, 2015 11:08 PM  

"Funny,the faces I see on the news being arrested are white"

I also try to catch British news because I cant read German fast enough to get international news. Low and behold the gang rape of an 11yo girl in Houston by 28 guys aged 15+ that included several from her middle school grade it turned out only one person in the building was not black. If equality existed the odds would favor one of the rapists to be the non black. Of course this was not mentioned in the US news.

Blogger Cuca Culpa April 09, 2015 12:03 PM  

So what's going to happen when we all have self-driving cars with remote kill switches?

Do you really think the gang, er, police union thugs would go for sensible layoffs?

Seems that the thugs use two types of tactics: mindfuckery on the stupid, and lead poisoning on the smart. Could get a little better as the steroid monkeys get pushed out and returning vets replace them.

Never trust a cop under 35.

Anonymous Deranged, incontinent rabbit April 09, 2015 1:03 PM  

More info on the shooting

Blogger Robert What? April 10, 2015 8:40 PM  

Given that judges and prosecutors give a pass to police in even the most egregious situations, it was completely reasonable for the policeman to believe he could shoot a fleeing, nonviolent suspect with impunity.

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