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Sunday, April 12, 2015

Who is the racist, George?

So, who is more reasonably deemed "racist as fuck", a white man active in science fiction fandom who created one of the most racially iconic scenes of the last decade and is openly trying to exclude a Native American from the science fiction world, or a part-Mexican Native American who dares to respond to people attacking him? I remember seeing that scene myself and thinking: "seriously, the white girl Christ?"
Last summer, in the finale of Game of Thrones' third season, mother of dragons Daenerys Targaryen stood outside the walls of Yunkai waiting for the slaves she just freed, hoping to convince them to join her army as free men. Daenerys, the white-blonde queen traded moons ago to the Dothraki by her brother, moves into the crowd of outstretched brown arms as they chant “mhysa”, which, we learn, means “mother” in their native tongue, and is carried into the crowd as the camera pulls back to show her floating in the middle of this sea of arms like the bright planet in a constellation of darkness.

I turned to my husband and said: “No one at HBO remembers the visual impact of slavery, I guess?” It was at that moment I decided to stop watching it. I’m aware that Game of Thrones is a TV show, a work of fiction, but having invested in it for three seasons, I no longer trusted the creators to bridge the gap of thoughtful conversation between action and intent. How much misogyny and racism are we expected to put up with in the name of entertainment?
 
Save us, little white girl!

The man who came up with this imagery is calling me racist? And doing so because I generously described a deranged black woman as a "half-savage" after she described Robert Heinlein as "racist as fuck", most of science fiction fandom as "racist as fuck" and me as "a self-described misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole." I tend to doubt Martin has any idea who and what he is defending when he attacks me.

I am not. And no doubt Dr. Martin van Creveld, the brilliant Israeli military historian I have the honor of editing and publishing, would be very surprised to learn about the anti-Semitism I supposedly proclaim so loudly. I know I was. Needless to say, I have never described myself as any of those things. Nor am I any of those things.

As it happens, my novelette that was nominated for the Hugo last year, "Opera Vita Aeterna" from The Last Witchking, is about a deep and abiding friendship between two individuals of different races, an elven sorcerer and a human monk. It is not a story of hate, but of three loves, the love of knowledge, the love of God, and the love of a friend. Another short story in that mini-collection, "The Hoblets of Wiccam Fensboro", is a story about a reluctantly righteous goblin saving innocent hoblets from the hoblet-hating orcs who occupy his village.

I am absolutely nothing like Requires Hate. When Martin says "Make no mistake. Vox Day and Requires Hate are twins. Mirror images of one another." he not only makes a mistake, he lies.

John O'Neill says I'm the most hated man in SF, but honestly, I don't think we've even come close to maximizing the hate yet. All we need now is for George Martin to have a heart attack from the stress brought on by attacking #GamerGate, thereby enraging all the Westeros fans who haven't given up hope that Martin has a Secret Master Plan to salvage the series and reverse the disaster of the last two books. Of course, the Torlings would inevitably put it all down to my cunning plan to market Castalia House in general and ARTS OF DARK AND LIGHT in particular.

"Vox Day is ruthless! George RR Martin's untimely death just proves he will STOP AT NOTHING!"

Anyhow, this tweet amused me: Be especially nice to @GRRMspeaking at the moment. He's getting much flack right now. 

Do you think? Because I was deeply moved by his plight, I felt I would be remiss if I failed to respond:

@GRRMspeaking My response to you is here: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/04/who-is-racist-george.html … I think it is clear who is, and is not, "racist as fuck". #SadPuppies

@GRRMspeaking Now those you called "toads" will respond. Only they're not toads. They are the Dread Ilk and they are wolves.

Labels: ,

132 Comments:

Anonymous please April 12, 2015 7:25 AM  

the world does love a blonde though.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus April 12, 2015 7:33 AM  

That girl is so white, she could almost work for Google.

Anonymous Anonymous April 12, 2015 7:33 AM  

Blondes are not. You get stares in parts of the world of blonde or red headed.
Stories from Egypt and India in particular

Anonymous Anonymous April 12, 2015 7:34 AM  

Hot* meant to type hot

Anonymous Jeremy April 12, 2015 7:39 AM  

So a man who writes a series about contesting civilisations with vastly different cultures each with its own strengths and pitfalls is demanding that people who notice such differences in real life be purged.

I really really hope grrm is just a naive fool.

Anonymous Bz April 12, 2015 7:40 AM  

Martin is being disingenuous to the extreme, from the beginning to the end.

As for Tsathoggua, Mr Martin:

"This I have known ever since I stretched out my fingers to the abomination within that great gilded frame; stretched out my fingers and touched a cold and unyielding surface of polished glass."

Blogger Sam Hall April 12, 2015 7:44 AM  

Emilia Clarke who plays the part is not blonde, she is wearing a wig.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilia_Clarke
This says to me that he wanted Daenerys Targaryen to be a blonde for some reason.

Anonymous Eric the Red April 12, 2015 7:45 AM  

Vox, don't try to out-progressive the SJW's. Personally, I am a racist, and proud of it.

Anonymous Bz April 12, 2015 7:47 AM  

Somewhat related: Wouldn't it be interesting to send someone to attend (and tape) Wiscon, "the world's premier feminist SF convention", which seems to be the source of a lot of the madness, just to see what's going on there.

For instance, Jemisin's GoH speech seemed plainly unhinged. She didn't quite break out into singing "kill kill the boer", but it seems like it was pretty close.

http://nkjemisin.com/2014/05/wiscon-38-guest-of-honor-speech/

Blogger Shimshon April 12, 2015 7:50 AM  

My brother was offered 2000 camels for my (white, blonde) mother while they were touring Egypt in 1989. The man who made the offer assured my brother it was an extremely generous offer (do you know how much camels go for!), as his sister only went for 20.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus April 12, 2015 7:54 AM  

N.K. Jemisin - what happens when stupid people use their race as a cover for their stupidity.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus April 12, 2015 7:55 AM  

My brother was offered 2000 camels for my (white, blonde) mother while they were touring Egypt in 1989. The man who made the offer assured my brother it was an extremely generous offer (do you know how much camels go for!), as his sister only went for 20.

By Allah, did he take the offer?

Anonymous Dan April 12, 2015 7:56 AM  

On Torgersen's blog, Doctor Locketopus wrote,

“GRRM (who has actually been fairly reasonable in this overall, given his personal politics) breaks out the “You must denounce Vox Day and all his works” card.

How about you denounce the Nielsen Haydens, George? They’ve been spouting rhetoric every bit as vile and inflammatory as Vox’s, and they’ve been doing it for decades. With them it’s arguably worse. Until recently, Vox was just some guy on the internet, while they are (or were, in Teresa’s case) highly-ranked editors for a major publisher.”

This is a tremendous point that is worth repeating. Even more, GRRM ought to denounce the several media outlets that have been literally breaking the law regarding defamation, committing legal libel by saying that Sad Puppies is an effort to silence women and minorities out when the slate shows that to be false.

It is not illegal to express negative opinions about someone or something. It is illegal to use clear falsehoods to do so. Vox Day is on the right of the law while several media outlets (EW, Slate, The Guardian) are on the wrong side of the law. Why is some blogger being held to a higher standard than these major media outlets?

Anonymous Steve April 12, 2015 7:59 AM  

I'm still chuckling and shaking my head at this:

When are you going to do something about Vox Day?

This sort of divide and conquer tactic worked well for progressives, as recently as the late 90's and early 2000's. Alas, in Space Year 2015, it's now as relevant as Nickelback.

"Everybody denounce the guy to your Right, or you're a racist!"

They had a grand old time seeing conservatives, libertarians and reactionaries tear strips off each other, hoping to earn Good Boy Points with the Left.

"See! See! I spat on that Bad Man for you! What do I win?"

"Nothing, you dipshit! You're still a racistsexisthomophobe. See ya!"

See, if only they could get Brad Torgersen to denounce Larry Correia, and Larry to denounce Vox, and Vox to denounce Roosh, they could sit back with a bag of popcorn (or a binbag of popcorn for the lady Seanan) and enjoy the show, instead of having to worry about mean old Puppies taking their little rocket-ship trophies off them.

Call it the Retardos Gambit.

It doesn't work so well any more, because the law of diminishing returns is a universal constant, and even the meekest and mildest of folks on what passes for "the Right" (which is basically anybody hated by SJW's, whether they regard themselves as rightwing or not) have started to notice that there is nothing they can do to stop progressives hating or slandering them, short of jumping off a cliff. We can hang together or hang separately.

George RR Martin is 66 years old, and, by the looks of him, he could stroke out at any time. (I hope he doesn't, mind you, the man's a weird little Commie-hobbit but I don't hate him) So it's not surprising that he's a bit out of touch.

The "racist" thing Vox points to above is proof of Martin's lack of awareness. George is a white, hetero "cis" male millionaire. He's exactly the sort of person the SJW's hate, just for being who he is. They might tolerate you while you're useful to them, but as soon as you're not, they'll toss your books on the fire too. When K Tempest Bradford tells people not to read books by white men, she means you, Georgie.

Blogger Rantor April 12, 2015 8:03 AM  

Mhysa sounds a lot like Massa don't it? How insensitive GRRM. You should probably go through and re-edit the first five books just to get rid of any inadvertent racism. I am sure your fans are willing to wait a little longer for the next volume.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 12, 2015 8:04 AM  

They basically have a one word political rhetoric arsenal, "racist." IMO they are fairly close to losing it as a weapon.

The Left has taken to RACE as a starving pig to slop, read their bulletin boards, their blogs, racial theorizing that would make Himmler blush.

Last bit of advice to anyone who still thinks "anti-racism" is anything more than anti-white learn the Mantra.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet April 12, 2015 8:18 AM  

VD,

This doesn't change your main point really, but my understanding was that she's albino, not necessarily white. There's a difference, culturally and genetically speaking.

Albinos won't necessarily have albino children nor do their own parents have to be albinos, I believe.

Anonymous Steve April 12, 2015 8:18 AM  

Mr.MantraMan - They basically have a one word political rhetoric arsenal, "racist."

Eh, sort of. There's also "misogynist", "homophobe", "Islamophobe", and my personal favourite, the new Mk V "transphobe" model.

But they all operate on the same principle, to laser-paint you as a baddie and call in Proggie verbal artillery strikes - the weight of community disapproval - on your position, while you're supposed to curl in in the foetal position and beg for mercy.

Unfortunately none of these weapons work when the target is a honey badger who doesn't give a shit.

Anonymous jack April 12, 2015 8:36 AM  

Some might say, that with this posting, Vox is at full court press; damn them torpedoes give me speed; loose the dogs.
I don't think so. Not yet. I haven't seen the seconds talk terms for the duel. The street is no yet full of blood. Correia is not trembling in fear, though they are on the both side. Sort of.
Are you all not entertained? My budget for popcorn is exhausted; I am devastated and thrilled all the same time. Beale simply must put all this into a book [or three]; Please.

Anonymous zen0 April 12, 2015 8:38 AM  

@ Eric the Red

>Vox, don't try to out-progressive the SJW's. Personally, I am a racist, and proud of it.

Please. The term is "race realist".

Anonymous zen0 April 12, 2015 8:46 AM  

@ Northern Hamlet

..... but my understanding was that she's albino, not necessarily white. There's a difference, culturally and genetically speaking.

Not if they are Caucasian albinos.

Still not clear on the rhetoric/dialectic thingy, eh?

Blogger pdwalker April 12, 2015 8:57 AM  

You do have to admit, it does make for a visually striking scene.

Blogger Salt April 12, 2015 9:05 AM  

I haven't seen the seconds talk terms for the duel.

What terms?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 12, 2015 9:10 AM  

Yeah Steve I know, but you see which word GM reached for even if race is nowhere near this kerfuffle.

Anyway no one person here is going to disqualify the word anytime soon so might as well ask the token black SF/F writer what she thinks of GM's blonde massa. Ask the SJWs as well if they are comfortable as well

Anonymous DirtnapNinja April 12, 2015 9:14 AM  

We need a world to describe 'hatred of whites'

Albaphobia? Leukophobia? Asprophobia?

Anonymous Dirtnapninja April 12, 2015 9:15 AM  

err. I mean a 'word' to describe hatred of whites

Anonymous NorthernHamlet April 12, 2015 9:16 AM  

Zen0,

Not if they are Caucasian albinos.

It's hilarious you think you can identify the races of fictional characters against the author even when they may possibly have generic disorders.

As much as I'd like to continue that line of argument for the sake of more laughter, I went digging and it seems there was one albino Targaryen, and though it's never been stated either way, she's probably just white.

Still not clear on the rhetoric/dialectic thingy, eh?

Still not clear on the whole "some men don't care about your enemies" thing eh?

Anyway, I'd have pointed out... TargARYEN... ARYAN.

Looks like George has some beliefs about language and ethnicity that are rather racist too, at the very least. At the worst, NAZI!

Blogger Felix Bellator April 12, 2015 9:23 AM  

@ Northern Hamlet - Targaryens, they be white.

Are there any black folk in Westeros?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 12, 2015 9:28 AM  

NYTs thinks there are too many white women in the teaching profession, so maybe Vox is right by the standards of the day Martin is a racist

Blogger Mark Citadel April 12, 2015 9:28 AM  

Watch these trolls declaring they will vote No Award

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqnMqRflums

Leftists literally think they OWN everything. No dissent will be tolerated.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey April 12, 2015 9:28 AM  

I remember seeing that scene myself and thinking: "seriously, the white girl Christ?"

I remember thinking the same thing. It was a "jump the shark" moment for Game of Thrones.

Anonymous Stilicho April 12, 2015 9:29 AM  

Now Vox can add "dwarfist" to his list of thought crimes.

Anonymous Harsh April 12, 2015 9:29 AM  

George RR Martin is 66 years old

I had to laugh at that because from seeing his picture I thought Martin was pushing late seventies. My 71-year old father is in better shape and looks younger than that fat moron.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 12, 2015 9:31 AM  

UNGAWA!!!!!

Anonymous Jeremy April 12, 2015 9:36 AM  

I saw the "blonde Christ lady" scene as being more about leftist white girl fantasies of being worshiped by hordes of darkies for having such impeccably PC opinions.

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 9:38 AM  

Anyway, I'd have pointed out... TargARYEN... ARYAN.

You might think it a coincidence... Until you recall that there's actually a character called Arya Stark.

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 9:39 AM  

I mean, does there need to be a character called Arya Stark-Aryan until people figure this out?

Blogger Jassi April 12, 2015 9:59 AM  

"George is a white, hetero "cis" male millionaire. He's exactly the sort of person the SJW's hate, just for being who he is. They might tolerate you while you're useful to them, but as soon as you're not, they'll toss your books on the fire too."

All they need is one instance of him using a newly-deemed politically incorrect term for a "protected class" and he's gone. Then after his removal, his removers come next. The left has no choice but to eat itself alive.

Anonymous Porphyry April 12, 2015 10:04 AM  

wait what did george think was the purpose of the wall in the north anyway? to keep the price of whores down?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 12, 2015 10:05 AM  

DirtnapNinja: "We need a world to describe 'hatred of whites' "

Antiwhitism.

Anonymous realmatt April 12, 2015 10:07 AM  

I never thought about it until now, but why are the Targaeryans so white? Arent they originally from Essos?? Everyone on Essos is swarthy if not black.

Blogger Josh April 12, 2015 10:12 AM  

We need a world to describe 'hatred of whites

Leukophobia.

Blogger badwhite April 12, 2015 10:21 AM  

"but why are the Targaeryans so white?"

Just lucky I guess.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera April 12, 2015 10:22 AM  

Misanglocism?

I'm sure Thordaddy will come to our rescue presently.

Blogger badwhite April 12, 2015 10:23 AM  

"We need a world to describe 'hatred of whites"

Europhobia. It's more intuitive, people will know what it means when you say it.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera April 12, 2015 10:24 AM  

Actually, anglophobia has a nice ring to it.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 12, 2015 10:25 AM  

PS: the picture...

Any special reason why the less white are executing a mass NAZI salute to the whitest of all?

Anonymous Aeoli Pera April 12, 2015 10:26 AM  

I saw Thordaddy in a thread yesterday and thought "He must be taking a vacation between bans." Still the most boring troll ever.

Blogger bob k. mando April 12, 2015 10:30 AM  

Shimshon April 12, 2015 7:50 AM
My brother was offered 2000 camels for my (white, blonde) mother while they were touring Egypt in 1989.



my uncle was offered ~200 goats for his daughter in Mali while the family was visiting his son in the middle of his Peace Corp tour. this would have been '94.

and the daughter is a short ( 5'-1" ), small breasted, dumpy litttle thing with black hair.

not sure if continent wide practical joke on tourists or actually serious.


Cataline Sergius April 12, 2015 9:31 AM
UNGAWA!!!!!



now that's a good word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZJ0rVc5BYE



VD
Based on the evidence, it appears Ms Jemisin may have been correct about Mr. Martin, for one, being "racist as fuck".


*golf clap*

Blogger badwhite April 12, 2015 10:31 AM  

"Actually, anglophobia has a nice ring to it."

Thats also a good one.

Blogger Cecil Henry April 12, 2015 10:39 AM  

A word to describe hatred of whites???

Anti-white.


As for Game of Thrones, it jumped the shark by season 2 with its anti-white undertones and race baiting. I left it quick at that point.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 10:45 AM  

That picture you posted looks like George R.R. Martin and John Scalzi's worst nightmare, Vox.

Let's see:
Sante Fe County 91.2% white (home of Martin.)
Ohio State 83.2% white (home of Scalzi, not sure what county though.)

My hometown 46% white. Hmm and I'm a reader of this blog and right leaning.

Anonymous JRL April 12, 2015 10:45 AM  

I stopped watching GOT early on, but this scene w daenerys is so un_pc it's awesome.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja April 12, 2015 10:47 AM  

Anglophobia already has a meaning though, and most whites aren't anglos. We need a nice 'phobia' word, and we need to hammer it relentlessly. Misandry is starting to find a measure of acceptance, so lets follow suit.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 10:53 AM  

It's basically a scene from one of my all-time favorite movies.

Captain Englehorn: He says, "Look at the golden woman."
Carl Denham: "Yeah, blondes are scarce around here. "

The chief than offers up 6 tribal women for the one blonde white woman.

Martin could have easily have written that scene.

*bonus points if you know the movie without searching.

OpenID trunthepaige April 12, 2015 10:57 AM  

I started reading Martin when I was still a middle school student. A fan was born that day, but I saw right away that in his worlds the noblest of nobles were very white and his woman tended to be raped over and over again. If the man would have just kept writing, I would still be a very happy fan.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 10:59 AM  

Also, this is a disappointment. I was entertained by the vitriol leveled at us cis males. It was like watching a crazy woman rolling her own turds between her fingers and flicking them at passerbys.

Anonymous Anonymous April 12, 2015 11:04 AM  

Scalzi lives in Darke county, OH. It's 98.09% white.

-Bystander

Anonymous Starbuck April 12, 2015 11:04 AM  

I have to laugh at all this. #GamerGate should be renamed #NerdWars. No blood letting. Just computer warriors trying to out smart one another with their fancy typing.

My hat is off to you VD. You sure know how to get the nerds to box themselves in and they can't figure out how to get out.

I laugh at them. Because I know they (SJW's) are now insignificant and they haven't figured that out yet.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 11:06 AM  

If the man would have just kept writing, I would still be a very happy fan.

To which Neil Gaiman famously said, "George R. R. Martin is not your bitch."

Sure Neil, you pay someone a lot of money to write a book only to see him spend years fucking around doing other shit.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee April 12, 2015 11:08 AM  

Dirtnapninja -You are correct, anglophobia is anti-UK sentiment, parallel with russophobia, and similar constructions. It's telling that there is still, decades after "reverse racism" became an idiom, no widely accepted word for anti-white bigotry. The actual, road-tested meaning of racism, as used by SJWs, specifically excludes non-whites from being racist. Normal people don't use the word that way, but SJWs sure do. A little Foucault-style analysis would go a long way there.

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P April 12, 2015 11:20 AM  

@Bogey

That'll be King Kong I reckon.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 11:25 AM  

An aside, the novelization of King Kong is pretty good by the way.

Anonymous Rolf April 12, 2015 11:26 AM  

If there is going to be talk of duels, at least there should be some comedy involved.

Duel at Blood Creek .

So what's it say about the universe that I've never understood why people like dystopian and "horrible people win" fiction so much?

Anonymous Aeoli Pera April 12, 2015 11:30 AM  

>Anglophobia already has a meaning though, and most whites aren't anglos. We need a nice 'phobia' word, and we need to hammer it relentlessly. Misandry is starting to find a measure of acceptance, so lets follow suit.

The problem is that racism is mostly directed toward Europeans northwest of the Hajnal line rather than, say, Italians or Croatians.

Also northeast Asians, but everybody knows they don't count.

Blogger Mark Citadel April 12, 2015 11:32 AM  

Your comment about the half savage was factually accurate as well, and if Martin doesn't realize that then he is incapable of any kind of reason. The entire Scalzi bloc is a clown car of SJWs

Anonymous Festus April 12, 2015 11:35 AM  

"I turned to my husband and said: “No one at HBO remembers the visual impact of slavery, I guess?”


Who should be dig up, General Lee?

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 11:43 AM  

Watch these trolls declaring they will vote No Award

If they want to burn it down, let them. Just keep a running tally of all the people openly buying extra memberships, declaring that they'll vote Noah Ward, and the like.

And remember the Martins, Scalzis and O'Neills, who might have helped avoid the situation but, instead, chose to throw gas on the fire.

Let it burn.
Bring marshmallows.

Blogger James Dixon April 12, 2015 11:46 AM  

> Now those you called "toads" will respond. Only they're not toads. They are the Dread Ilk and they are wolves.

Hey, he is capable of learning after all. Must be that white male privilege of his showing.

Blogger Danby April 12, 2015 11:55 AM  

"We need a world to describe 'hatred of whites"

I nominate caucaphobia.

Blogger Danby April 12, 2015 11:55 AM  

hint, say it out loud

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 11:56 AM  

I nominate caucaphobia.

Re-think that.

Anonymous JB April 12, 2015 11:57 AM  

Speaking of fans of Westeros, I ventured to the ASoIF forum, to the Hugo 2015 nominations thread (a close one). Needless to say, I haven't seen such intolerance, bigotry and ignorance for a while. Narrative uber Alles. Talk about a warren...

Blogger grendel April 12, 2015 12:08 PM  

"So what's it say about the universe that I've never understood why people like dystopian and "horrible people win" fiction so much?"~Rolf

It means you're not a spiritually retarded modernist. ATOB is so refreshing because the struggles and death have purpose and meaning. But so help me, if every bad guy gets a POV and becomes a saint victim in Atob II I'll Have to...Ha! Never happen, no need to worry about it.

I think I have a tell on GRRM though. I think he can't manage to kill Tyrion because the deformed dwarf who's great in bed is him, and he's trying to write his way to marrying the blonde.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 12:28 PM  

I think I have a tell on GRRM though. I think he can't manage to kill Tyrion because the deformed dwarf who's great in bed is him, and he's trying to write his way to marrying the blonde.

That would be so vastly amusing at this point.

Blogger Ghost April 12, 2015 12:29 PM  

I thought the word was "observant."

Blogger bob k. mando April 12, 2015 12:33 PM  

Danby April 12, 2015 11:55 AM
I nominate caucaphobia.


Scintan April 12, 2015 11:56 AM
Re-think that.



why?

are you saying, Scintan, that you ... love the cauc?

[ /Spockbrow ]

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales April 12, 2015 12:34 PM  

Hey, does anybody here know which of the Castalia House books have the most action in them, because I'm one of those guys where, if there isn't at least a half-assed attempt at action in prose, I get bored very easily.

Blogger S1AL April 12, 2015 12:39 PM  

It's odd... overall GRRM seems to be very balanced on this issue, especially given his politics. But for Vox he just has this incomprehensible hatred. I know Vox is good at pissing people off, and I still don't understand this situation.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 12:44 PM  

Hey, does anybody here know which of the Castalia House books have the most action in them, because I'm one of those guys where, if there isn't at least a half-assed attempt at action in prose, I get bored very easily.

QUANTUM MORTIS: A Man Disrupted and QUANTUM MORTIS: Gravity Kills.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 12, 2015 12:44 PM  

Martin has no clue what he has done.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 12:46 PM  

I know Vox is good at pissing people off, and I still don't understand this situation.

Perhaps he read one of the Amazon reviews that said ATOB is better than AGOT. It's not true, of course. I don't think it's better than any of ASOIAF except ADWD.

More likely is that he's an old-time Worldcon guy who is just angry about the violation of the Hugos.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 12:46 PM  

You must yield to the master race, Vox. Because equality.

Blogger automatthew April 12, 2015 12:47 PM  

"Hey, does anybody here know which of the Castalia House books have the most action in them, because I'm one of those guys where, if there isn't at least a half-assed attempt at action in prose, I get bored very easily."

Start with Quantum Mortis: A Man Disrupted.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 12:49 PM  

Martin has no clue what he has done.

I think it is funny that he can't figure out how Rabid Puppies was able to show up two centuries strong without #GamerGate. And the SJWs bragging that they have larger numbers across the whole of SF fandom than ONE author they claim is irrelevant and trivial... they're just incoherent.

"We can totally round up more people who support every publishing house and left-leaning author than support Vox Day and a 13-month old epublisher!"

Well, yeah, they had damn well better be able to do so.

Blogger Bogey April 12, 2015 12:51 PM  

If anyone could write action in Science Fiction like Robert E Howard did in fantasy I would find my favorite science fiction writer.

Blogger S1AL April 12, 2015 12:52 PM  

"More likely is that he's an old-time Worldcon guy who is just angry about the violation of the Hugos.

Yeah... kinda a shame. I like his tone on almost every issue under discussion. I do find it hilarious that you're supposedly "our" version of Requires Hate. I do think it says a lot for one side of the debate that that's the best available comparison.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 12:53 PM  

"His followers will just shrug that off."

Some stupidly optimistic thinking from GRRM here. Comments on his site seem to be shut down for the moment, and I can only guess that he's dealing with a flood of posts. Still, even if he never makes them public, a guy like this is still going to be deeply troubled by those calling out his lies, hypocrisy, and cowardice. So let him have it, folks.

Anonymous andy April 12, 2015 12:58 PM  

Don't sell yourself short Vox. A Throne of Bones is very good. Your series will probably end up being better than his. He is a very good writer though, unlike Scalzi, which is why I think he's not a full SJW retard. The full retard SJWs are people with no redeeming qualities so they take up SJW activism as their purpose in life. My theory anyway.

Blogger valiance. April 12, 2015 12:58 PM  

The blame for that white messiah scene doesn't fall at GRRMs feet. That's solely the fault of the tv production, which pulled extras from locals near where the scene was shot; locals who don't reflect the diversity of skin color of Essosi in GRRM's work. To be sure Essos has some brown people, but there are a lot of white people as well.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 1:03 PM  

The blame for that white messiah scene doesn't fall at GRRMs feet.

If he protested it, let him say so.

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 1:04 PM  

Still, even if he never makes them public, a guy like this is still going to be deeply troubled by those calling out his lies, hypocrisy, and cowardice. So let him have it, folks.

He already thinks those people are evil barbarians who don't deserve to live. Posts that attack him will just make him more sure of his position.

Anonymous Posleen scout force alpha April 12, 2015 1:04 PM  

The PEOPLE have high hopes for the Martinthresh. It is our greatest desire that all thresholds will emulate him in all ways. I salivate at the very thought.

Anonymous fish April 12, 2015 1:04 PM  

Scalzi lives in Darke county, OH. It's 98.09% white.

I swear the Scalzi jokes write themselves.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 1:07 PM  

Posts that attack him will just make him more sure of his position.

No, Scintan. He's a rabbit. Rabbits don't think like that.

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 1:10 PM  

No, Scintan. He's a rabbit. Rabbits don't think like that.

That is how they think. You can see it in blog after blog. You can hear it from them in person.

Anonymous Phil Mann April 12, 2015 1:17 PM  

And the SJWs bragging that they have larger numbers across the whole of SF fandom than ONE author they claim is irrelevant and trivial...

Vox, I imagine Worldcon is seeing quite a number of new supporting members join this year who have never participated in the past (e.g. me). Will these numbers be shared, officially or unofficially, with the SJWs? Will they know in advance of the vote what they are up against?

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 1:17 PM  

Generally, it's a bad idea to obtain advice from one's opponent. What they're actually doing is telling you what they're deathly afraid of. Think of it, Scintan... YOU can be their worst nightmare.

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 1:22 PM  

That is how they think.

No, that's what they wish to project. Gammas do the same. Think about how John Scalzi said he is enjoying Vox's attacks. But that just doesn't match his behavior. He just wants him to stop, and since just ASKING that doesn't even enter his mind, he is trying then to make Vox think that the time he invests on Scalzi ends up just in Scalzi's advantage.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 1:26 PM  

Try pointing out to GRRM, for example, that his sermon about the evils of McCarthyism was nothing more than a lead-in for his very own personal flavor of McCarthyism, in which he demands that B.T. denounce Vox or else be deemed guilty by association.

GRRM also wistfully mourns that he hasn't received any rape threats, but don't give him the satisfaction. They wouldn't have any credibility anyway since someone would have to actually carry it out.

I'm sure he's no longer reading my posts, so this should come from someone else. Unleash your inner barbarian.

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 1:27 PM  

No, that's what they wish to project. Gammas do the same. Think about how John Scalzi said he is enjoying Vox's attacks. But that just doesn't match his behavior. He just wants him to stop, and since just ASKING that doesn't even enter his mind, he is trying then to make Vox think that the time he invests on Scalzi ends up just in Scalzi's advantage.

I don't know if you two are misunderstanding my point or not and, if so, that may be the fault of how I wrote it, but it is how those people think.

If they think you are hostile and evil, and you respond with anything their brains can consider even remotely hostile, it serves as a reinforcement mechanism.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 1:29 PM  

What do you suggest instead? Bribing him into silence with donuts?

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 1:29 PM  

I understand what you are trying to say, and think it mistaken. Their amygdalae will indeed temporarily shut down from the negativity as a defensive mechanism. But it cannot withstand a prolonged barrage.

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 1:32 PM  

It would be a mistake to do some vacuous negativity, like "hey, George: FUCK YOU! lolololol"

But from what I've seen, our side doesn't have a proclivity to that.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 1:34 PM  

"It would be a mistake to do some vacuous negativity..."

Definitely. The best insults often require no vulgarity and are rooted in truth.

Blogger Blume April 12, 2015 1:37 PM  

And arya

Blogger Markku April 12, 2015 1:42 PM  

It's not very important in this case. Martin isn't actually doing anything we need to stop him from doing. Except perhaps farting around instead of writing the book.

The principle is more general. Conservatives had it so wrong, so long.

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 1:47 PM  

What do you suggest instead? Bribing him into silence with donuts?

Martin's already declared that the SJWs are "OUR SIDE". There's nothing to be done about it, beyond knowing your enemy.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 2:00 PM  

"Except perhaps farting around instead of writing the book."

It's difficult for me to see how the book series can successfully continue after it has been outrun by the TV series with a different writer. It's an odd situation.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 2:01 PM  

Martin's already declared that the SJWs are "OUR SIDE". There's nothing to be done about it, beyond knowing your enemy.

You're doing nothing. You think you should do nothing. That's fine. I won't criticize you for it. But understand that I'm not inclined to listen to a single word you say.

No one except those who support Castalia or threw in with GamerGate and Sad/Rabid Puppies, have accomplished a damn thing on this front in 30 years. So lend a shoulder or step aside, but don't think for a second that we're interested in your advice or your opinion.

Blogger valiance. April 12, 2015 2:12 PM  

@Vox re GRRM speaking for himself. Fair enough. I'm going by what I read in the text and what I remember reading about the scene when it aired. Heck if I know what GRRM thinks about the scene.

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 2:12 PM  

You're doing nothing. You think you should do nothing. That's fine. I won't criticize you for it. But understand that I'm not inclined to listen to a single word you say.

I'm not sure why you keep misunderstanding my posts. They seem pretty straightforward to me. It was asked, with obvious snark, if we should bribe Martin with a donut. The "nothing to be done" was in response to that, and all I noted was that he's chosen his side.

As for doing nothing, when this first broke a few days ago, I spent more time on your site than I probably had in years, updating with posts about what others were posting elsewhere, so that you'd be able to have them on record. You may not consider it much, but it's more than nothing.

Anonymous Donn April 12, 2015 2:14 PM  

Since we've already moved to a new thread. I'll mention it here, we are not in the 'Empire Strikes Back' stage of the Westros saga just waiting until the final victory for good.

I have been reading Martin since the eighties, he cannot portray heroes at all. Contempt for heroes and heroism have been oozing from his page (when not smacking people between the eyes with a hammer) at least since then. Read the stuff he's edited like 'Wildcards' and tell me he doesn't hate everything to the right of Che. For fucks sake he was still fighting the HUAC hearings in the 80's.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 2:19 PM  

"It was asked, with obvious snark, if we should bribe Martin with a donut."

Glad you picked up on the snark. GRRM is probably a wealthy man with sophisticated taste.

Clearly French pastries are called for.

Blogger Vox April 12, 2015 2:20 PM  

I'm not sure why you keep misunderstanding my posts. They seem pretty straightforward to me. It was asked, with obvious snark, if we should bribe Martin with a donut. The "nothing to be done" was in response to that, and all I noted was that he's chosen his side.

Okay, sorry, I misinterpreted. Yes, we won't convince him of anything. But putting pressure on one of their big guns and showing it to be a nothing but a pop-gun is far from nothing. And we will convince others when he does the usual rabbiting.

Blogger Nate April 12, 2015 2:25 PM  

The stars came back. Rolf rocks at action

Anonymous patrick kelly April 12, 2015 2:26 PM  

"I nominate caucaphobia."
LOL...really, glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee to spew, or I would have...

That's just funny and wrong on so many levels...I luv this blog...

Anonymous Scintan April 12, 2015 2:33 PM  

Okay, sorry, I misinterpreted.

Since you're not the only one who's misunderstood me this afternoon, it's probably something in the way I'm writing. So, my apologies for not being clear enough.

Blogger Corvinus April 12, 2015 2:44 PM  

But putting pressure on one of their big guns and showing it to be a nothing but a pop-gun is far from nothing. And we will convince others when he does the usual rabbiting.

That's true. Unless I'm misreading things, Vox's slow-burn of Scalzi over the past few years has already cost Scalzi a large chunk of his viewership and most of his respect. So if GRRM wants to go all-in with the SJWs, let the slow-burn commence.

Blogger Corvinus April 12, 2015 2:45 PM  

"I nominate caucaphobia."

I nominate we stop referring to Europeans as "Caucasian" entirely. Caucasians are folks like the Tsarnaev bros.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 12, 2015 2:46 PM  

The good news is the race card is losing its power, here is an article from the gay conservative Chicago journalist that said Barry was a bottom who rented himself for old white men at the bathhouses. http://hillbuzz.org/extreme-black-anger-in-chicago-at-obama-he-done-did-it-he-ruined-it-for-us-white-people-dont-feel-guilty-no-more-and-wont-do-stuff-for-us-now-64493

"So a man who writes a series about contesting civilisations with vastly different cultures each with its own strengths and pitfalls is demanding that people who notice such differences in real life be purged."

Perhaps he didn't understand the War of the Roses when he converted it to fantasy. Sort of like an Asian that would rather rote memorize a book than understand its contents. Or the bad translation: Beware of Safety, Slip and fall carefully.

“No one at HBO remembers the visual impact of slavery, I guess?”
~ I guess they remembered that whites are the only people to have freed slaves.

"he can't manage to kill Tyrion ...deformed dwarf who's great in bed is him," ~ Has anyone said that who Tyrion has not paid? Awkward

"overall GRRM seems to be very balanced on this issue, especially" He held up the façade of not choosing sided until the mask slipped, he is like a Queen that would demean a waitress for something not in her power but not at strong waiter.

"I nominate caucaphobia."~~The left either worship or envy it.

"So what's it say about the universe that I've never understood why people like dystopian and "horrible people win" fiction so much?"

Heroes are partially defined by their villains. Sir Muffy the vanquisher of parking ticket scofflaws, isn't as great as a dragon slayer.

"What do you suggest instead? Bribing him into silence with donuts?"~ You are going to need a bigger boat-load of donuts.

Blogger JDC April 12, 2015 2:54 PM  

John Snow. Racist. As bad as the Clorox racist emoji-gate debacle that has so threatened the civil rights movement.

Blogger Noah B April 12, 2015 3:23 PM  

They've even got the brown people doing a Sieg Heil.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 12, 2015 3:35 PM  

I actually get part of where Martin is coming from. He is determined to pretend WorldCon still is, what it once was.

We are very bad people for showing him, his fantasy is a fantasy. That today Larry Niven, Roger Zelazny and Robert Heinlein would be utterly shunned, when they weren't being constantly harassed.

Larry made him face this. And Martin can't face it at all. He needs to dismiss Larry's opinion as being the product of a bigoted mind. So he is demanding Larry publicly disavow Vox before addressing his editorial points. If Larry doesn't disown Vox, then he can safely dismiss all of Larry's talking points because he is clearly a Hitler apologist. It will allow him to condemn Larry, while avoiding confronting him.

When I was first involved with SCA in the mid 1980s. It was one big family, everybody pitched in to help. Lots of work hard, play harder fun. There were however problems on the horizon that didn't look problems at the time.

Primarily in the kingdom I was involved with, it was a female administrative officer that had turned into a queen bee. But I figured she'd go too far and someone would replace her sooner or later. She was already way too pushy and it was causing some major problems with outer territories. But not to worry I figured, the organization as whole looked healthy. Strong presence on college campus, young members joining (etc)

I then left the SCA completely alone for twenty years. While I went and had a life.

When I came back for a visit, I discovered that the Queen Bee was now an ancient unquestioned God-Empress before whom all the kings ritually prostrated themselves. All the outer territories had broken themselves off and sworn eternal hatred for their mother kingdom and that was just one kingdom

The SCA as a whole is now an extremely feminist stronghold. There are same sex thrones all through out this medieval re-creationist society. There is zero presence on college campuses, and the typical entry age is forty. By every metric it is a dying organization that is absolutely determined to resist any changes that might save it.

And here is big point of similarity. It is utterly dominated by women past their childbearing years.

A point that was driven home to me last week when I was talking to couple of WorldCon types and they swore that Paladin of Souls was Lois McMaster Bujold's greatest book of all time bar none. They were totally, passionately serious.

I'm not saying women ruin everything. But old Feminists damn well do.

Anonymous Giuseppe April 12, 2015 3:48 PM  

Actually, anglophobia has a nice ring to it.
As this was suggested after Europhobia, my first thought was, of course, "Rrraaccissstssss!"
But then I remembered...I'm a dago...probably misappropriating whiteness of the Thordaddy kind!

Blogger Feather Blade April 12, 2015 4:54 PM  

Danby April 12, 2015 11:55 AM
I nominate caucaphobia.

Scintan April 12, 2015 11:56 AM
Re-think that.


"Caucasophobia" would make the meaning clear.

But it's really the blond Notherners that they seem to hate most, so...Xanthophobe? Mis-xanthist? Boreanthrophobe? Misoboreanthope?

Anonymous Rottweiler April 12, 2015 5:41 PM  

@Vox April 12, 2015 2:01 PM
"No one except those who support Castalia or threw in with GamerGate and Sad/Rabid Puppies, have accomplished a damn thing on this front in 30 years. So lend a shoulder or step aside, but don't think for a second that we're interested in your advice or your opinion."

Vox, because of this paragraph I went over to Sasquan and forked over the $40 so I can vote for good SF in the Hugos.

... and my purchases from Castalia have given me more good reading material than I've had in a long while.

Thanks for opening a front on which to fight.

Blogger JvD April 12, 2015 5:54 PM  

I sent you an e-mail about this but I'll put the idea out here for others to chime in on: Have you given any thought to posting a running list of all the slanders, misquotes, accusations, misrepresentations, and whatnot about you and Sad/Rabid Puppies along with the names of the individuals writing all these things? List them and rebut them but best of all- catalogue them. I'm frustrated by the lack of accountability for people spouting things like, "He thinks it's a good idea for acid to be thrown in the face of women!"

Anonymous foxmarks April 12, 2015 5:57 PM  

#cisphobia

Fear of the normal.

Blogger Danby April 12, 2015 6:02 PM  

"Caucasophobia" would make the meaning clear.

I think Caucaphobia makes my meaning abundantly clear, thank you.

Anonymous Porphyry April 13, 2015 12:26 AM  

"I think I have a tell on GRRM though. I think he can't manage to kill Tyrion because the deformed dwarf who's great in bed is him, and he's trying to write his way to marrying the blonde." lol I picked that mary sue from season 1 of the tv I've never read the books but I mean come on that violence speech about cousins whats his name smashing beetles. Could the synecdoche be more obvious?

Blogger Feather Blade April 13, 2015 2:58 PM  

I think Caucaphobia makes my meaning abundantly clear, thank you.

Because, phonetically speaking, the first syllables are "caca", making the entire word sound like a childish linguist's joke meaning "the fear of shit"?

Hmm... I think I'm going to make use of my blonde-joke shoulder pads for this one. It's gone over my head.

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