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Saturday, April 18, 2015

You wanted Union

You've got Union:
Politicians who begged Scotland to stay in the Union should not complain if the SNP calls the shots at Westminster after the election, Nicola Sturgeon said last night. Polling last night showed that the nationalists are extending their lead – threatening to all but wipe out Labour north of the border.

But Ed Miliband yesterday refused four times to rule out going into a power-sharing agreement with the SNP if its MPs hold the balance of power for the first time. Yesterday she said: ‘During the referendum campaign last year, we were told repeatedly by politicians who were trying to persuade Scotland to vote no – and they succeeded – that Scotland was an integral part of the UK, that our view mattered,’ Miss Sturgeon said.

‘It’s completely unacceptable now for those politicians to say, when Scotland is perhaps going to make its view heard by voting SNP, to say your voice can’t be heard in the UK.’

She said her MPs – who could number as many as 50 after May 7 – would vote to roll back reform of the NHS in England. Traditionally, Scottish nationalists have not voted on health and matters that do not affect their constituents, since they are controlled in Scotland by the Holyrood parliament.
That's some quality black knighting right there. The English shot down Scottish independence, so there is no reason that the Scottish MPs shouldn't wreak havoc in Westminster.

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44 Comments:

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P April 18, 2015 2:33 PM  

If the English had a say in the Scottish Independence referendum, they would be independent by now.

Our craven politicians are British, they sure as hell aren't patriotic Englishmen.

That said - she is right, the political class can reap what theyve sown. Same goes for how theyve treated UKIP supporters.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream April 18, 2015 2:47 PM  

Sucks to be English.

Anonymous Steve April 18, 2015 2:54 PM  

Vox, the English didn't shoot down Scottish independence, the Scottish electorate did. More English people supported Scottish independence than did Scots.

The SNP lost fair and square. It turned out that, after been campaigning to break up the UK since the 1930's, they didn't have convincing answers to a number of vital issues - like which currency an independent Scotland would use.

Not that what was being offered to was "independence" anyway, the SNP wants Scotland to be the multicultiest, Nanny-Statiest, most smotheringly politically correct little protectorate in the EU.

They want to be like Sweden. Hell mend them.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 18, 2015 2:56 PM  

Steve, is English support for Scottish independence larger in absolute or relative terms?

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 18, 2015 3:00 PM  

Steve, is English support for Scottish independence larger in absolute or relative terms?

Anonymous Steve April 18, 2015 3:03 PM  

Derrick - In terms of raw numbers of people minded that way. In percentage terms, no part of the United Kingdom wanted Scotland to leave the Union.

Anonymous bushka5 April 18, 2015 3:06 PM  

You know if we had some genuine decentralization of power like to county level the SNP could be stopped in it's tracks. The scots conplant is very much the same as the rest of the country. an out of touch arrogant and indifferent London. The funny thing is most of this is left's fault they have been doing most of the centralization. In the 1930's and before we had local power most modern scots ( and others ) would kill for.

Blogger Antonio From Spain April 18, 2015 3:21 PM  

Vox, you present this as if it were a reaction to the referendum but this Scottish meddling in English affairs predates it. Are you unaware of this?

Sean Gabb wrote last year "the Scottish political class, through their weight in the Labour Party, has, at least since the 1990s, been a hostile elite among the English.... Dissolving the United Kingdom cannot bring back the Ancient Constitution. But it would end the power of the Scottish political class in England. Set these people on the high road home, and there is some chance that the conservative liberalism that, in every change of the past century, has remained the default prejudice of the English might reassert itself." (http://thelibertarianalliance.com/2014/09/09/thoughts-on-scottish-independence/)

And, as Steve says, the English didn't shoot down Scottish independence, the Scottish electorate did. Are you unaware of this as well?

Anonymous Gx1080 April 18, 2015 3:36 PM  

@Steve

That's the point. They screamed "independance" but they quickly bended because being part of the UK meant better welfare. So they don't get to complain.

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2015 3:46 PM  

Antonio From Spain April 18, 2015 3:21 PM
the English didn't shoot down Scottish independence, the Scottish electorate did. Are you unaware of this as well?



the last i saw on this, native born Scots voted narrowly for secession while the immigrant vote went heavily towards union.

can you post numbers that break down whether this is true or not?

the whole part of the interview where the reporterette kept trying to pin Nicola down on whether Scotland was a net debtor or creditor part of the UK was quite amusing.

Nicola is probably quite correct that Scots tend to pay more tax per capita into the union.

otoh, that has nothing to do with whether Scotland draws more FROM the union than they pay in taxes.

but if she goes down *that* rabbit hole, she has to admit that the entire Union is broke and meeting it's annual budget ONLY by borrowing money from foreign investors.

which is really going to throw a huge monkey wrench into all of the social welfare spending she wants to do. someday.

Anonymous MendoScot April 18, 2015 3:52 PM  

Slow up, people. The reason the independence vote didn't go through by an overwhelming majority is that most of us were ineligible to vote. So the retirees and welfare leeches voted to continue living off of English taxes.

I come from a large extended family of Scots - over 200 the last time that I checked. Very few of my generation still live in Scotland. Of my 40+ cousins, half a dozen still live there, mostly from one family that inherited a great deal of money from their father who, ironically, made his fortune working and living in Holland.

Now if Scotland got independence and, predictably, collapsed I would buy property in a moment and look to spend half the year there. Winter sucks that far North.

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2015 3:55 PM  

MendoScot April 18, 2015 3:52 PM
I come from a large extended family of Scots



reeeeeaaaaallly? are you sure?

then why don't you type in a Scots brogue, eh?

Blogger Pirran April 18, 2015 4:07 PM  

"That's some quality black knighting right there. The English shot down Scottish independence, so there is no reason that the Scottish MPs shouldn't wreak havoc in Westminster."

Don't forget that Cameron is a Scot (his family are Scottish Aristo's and proud of it) - the third in a row after Blair and Brown. It was his desperate and needy grovelling to the Scot's that was highlighted at the time (not to mention giving them effective independence in return for a no vote through devo max - a bizarre accommodation indeed) by Scots north and south of the border. Outside of the metropolitan chatterati, most of the UK was happy to see Scotland go or just plain indifferent.

Independence for Scotland has been inevitable since devolution. The question was simply when and how. The latest move by the SNP seems to be motivated by irritating the rest of the UK so much that they let them go at any price rather than being more rigorous in their demands. I suspect that Sturgeon and Salmond want effective debt relief on all Scottish debt (far higher pro rata than the UK average) and a big wadge of cash to make their policies seem utile for a while rather than the rag-bag of South American style anti-capitalist drool that they truly are. So black-knighting in that sense at least, but they knew the break-up was just a matter of time and they're banking that soon all the UK will welcome it.

The interesting question is what happens when a country like Scotland with a GDP per head about the same as Hampshire (Scotland is the third richest part of the UK after London and the South-East) and yet with 70% employment by the State manages on its own. How, exactly, will its tiny private sector support that debt load and how many of them will flee south? Diminishing oil reserves? Really? I'm sure the SNP is right; Scotland really subsidises everyone else.....or something.

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion April 18, 2015 4:18 PM  

News:
Family crises averted when charming gentleman of a son living in attic convinced not to move off on his own, thanks incessant browbeating, fearmongering, and promises of large allowance with voice in family decisions.

In completely unrelated news, Family distraught when idiot son in attic barges into living room, confiscates envelope of money with his name on it, and loudly interrupts family meeting where he was never welcome.

-------------------

Meanwhile, on other side of Atlantic street, scant majority of Family is offering large allowance and voice in family decisions to children, anywhere, willing to be adopted into Family. No references required.

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion April 18, 2015 4:20 PM  

I guess the Left is successfully Blacknighting western civilization.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja April 18, 2015 4:34 PM  

Quebec was masterful at this for many years. They called it the 'knife to the throat' strategy. Since Quebecers tended to vote in a bloc, and they openly and gleefully voted for the party who gave them the most goodies, Quebec ran the show. But then somethign odd happened..a party got elected without taking Quebec. Now Quebec finds itself rather isolated, with its influence dwindling and the western provinces are rising.

Anonymous Quartermaster April 18, 2015 4:36 PM  

As teh SNP is a hard socialist party, the UK is going to get what they voted for good and hard.

Anonymous MendoScot April 18, 2015 4:53 PM  

reeeeeaaaaallly? are you sure?

Well I'm the spitting image of both my father and uncle, so there is some room for doubt in my heritage - but it's all in the family, nyet?

Anonymous Steve April 18, 2015 5:01 PM  

bob k. mando - the last i saw on this, native born Scots voted narrowly for secession while the immigrant vote went heavily towards union.

A very slight majority of Scots-born voters opted for Yes in the referendum. Most Scottish-resident voters who were born elsewhere voted No.

But the SNP has been saying for years that anybody who gets off a plane at Glasgow Airport is a "New Scot", and that diversity is wonderful, and that they want more immigrants. So.... LOL.

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2015 5:05 PM  

Steve April 18, 2015 5:01 PM
A very slight majority of Scots-born voters opted for Yes in the referendum. Most Scottish-resident voters who were born elsewhere voted No.



yes, that's the hearsay i heard.

do you have any links?

Anonymous Steve April 18, 2015 5:09 PM  

Yarp.

Blogger Corvinus April 18, 2015 5:11 PM  

Just like with Quebec. You'd think they'd put eligibility requirements in the rules...

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 18, 2015 5:17 PM  

Oh please. If voting in elections could actually change anything it would already be illegal.. How many of those ex-Soviet EU ministers were voted in as opposed to appointed by moneyed bankster scum? Not many if any!
Mao Tse Tung said the only thing a Communist ever said that was true. The Law comes from the barrel of a gun. Get some law today!

Blogger kh123 April 18, 2015 5:32 PM  

"In completely unrelated news, Family distraught when idiot son in attic barges into living room, confiscates envelope of money with his name on it, and loudly interrupts family meeting where he was never welcome."

All in this week's sterling edition of The Digger.

Blogger Kallmunz April 18, 2015 5:40 PM  

Forgive me, I don't mean to hijack this thread. But did you notice that Making Light has shut down discussions, PARTY ON DUDE!

Anonymous Geoff April 18, 2015 6:39 PM  

Dirtnap and Corvinus,

Yes, it's interesting that the separatist movement in Quebec (not to mention in Alberta) has diminished significantly under the Conservative government. Although Prime Minister Harper certainly has his faults, he does deserve some credit for strengthening the "union". If I were him, I'd play up the national unity file in the upcoming election.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 18, 2015 7:47 PM  

I still think if Scotland had gone independent it wouldn't be long before they were begging someone for aid. I've seen the arguments Scottish nationalists made and I haven't been impressed.

The referendum wouldn't even have been a 100% guarantee of independence, there was still a lot of negotiation to do before Scotland would be independent. The SNP wanted a republic but even that was far from a guarantee. The Scots would probably be voting in the upcoming general elections because they weren't set to be independent until sometime in 2016.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 18, 2015 7:49 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 18, 2015 7:52 PM  

Ironically Sturgeon is not running for a seat in Westminster and that says a lot.

Sinn Fein for example has seats in Westminster but is in abstention. The SNP will not do that because they want control over various matters and has far too many seats not to do anything with them.

Clearly it doesn't matter if Labour is strong in Scotland or not, if SNP is going to play kingmaker all the better for Labour if Labour has less seats than the Conservatives. All the better for Milliband at least, even if it puts Labour unionists in a bit of a bind.

Blogger Unknown April 18, 2015 8:13 PM  

Are you not entertained!!?

Blogger Zimri April 18, 2015 9:08 PM  

Here is Google Preview for the Dozois anthology #31: https://books.google.com/books?id=eoXAAwAAQBAJ

Dozois likes to prepend a summary of the year's SF highlights, including the Hugo and the Nambula I mean Nebula winners....

I searched for "Vox Day"; nothing. For "Castalia": nothing. "Puppies" - one mention, of actual puppies in a story. Hey, at least that proved the search function worked.

No "Correia". Three "Wright"s, none relevant. (I'm not looking up "Torgerson" as he is involved this year.) Also no "gamergate", "Sarkeesian", or "Quinn".

Next year's intro should be... more interesting.

Anonymous obat perangsang wanita April 18, 2015 9:17 PM  

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Anonymous zen0 April 18, 2015 9:45 PM  

> I still think if Scotland had gone independent it wouldn't be long before they were begging someone for aid.

But they would not get it because no one would understand what they were saying.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 18, 2015 10:22 PM  

The majority of Scotts voted to leave those not born in Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay on the teat.

Speaking of Unions Bath House Barry wants to destroy right to work laws by having all workers pay into unions Pay for Performance & not attendance. Actually that's not an accurate position because attendance doesn't matter that much for feminists, have 5 pregnancy leaves and want it to count as if she was working hard the whole time. http://weaselzippers.us/221105-nlrb-may-gut-right-to-work-laws/

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 18, 2015 10:32 PM  

"A very slight majority of Scots-born voters opted for Yes in the referendum. Most Scottish-resident voters who were born elsewhere voted No."

Its ok you can say it the 3rd world refugee scum dumped on Scotland unanimously voted for more free stuff. Seriously all they have to do is become what Switzerland was a place for the rich to hide money that wouldn't squeal to peoples homelands and they could enjoy luxurious freedom

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2015 11:42 PM  

obat perangsang wanita April 18, 2015 9:17 PM
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this looks like an adbot that just slipped through. time to ban an IP number.



BigGaySteve April 18, 2015 10:32 PM
Its ok you can say it the 3rd world refugee scum dumped on Scotland unanimously voted for more free stuff.


look at the posted article. it wasn't "3rd world refugee scum" that was the problem. oh, sure, those born outside the UK voted some 55% to stay.

but the problem was the 1st world, non-Scots members of the UK ( English, Welsh, northern Irish ) living in Scotland. they were something like 70% to stay.

Blogger bob k. mando April 19, 2015 2:38 AM  

wait, Will Shetterly was one of the 'racists' from RaceFail'09?

how did we not know this?

http://fanlore.org/wiki/RaceFail_%2709#More_derails:_Will_Shetterly_and_Coffeeandink

Anonymous Pubes McKinley April 19, 2015 8:11 AM  

MendoScot April 18, 2015 3:52 PM

The reason the independence vote didn't go through by an overwhelming majority is that most of us were ineligible to vote.


Eh? How comes?

Anyway, my big question is: how many of those idiot Scotch would have voted to leave if the hated Tories hadn't been in government? And how different would modern Scottish history have been if it wasn't for Braveheart? In other words, how many of them were thinking it through at all?

Anonymous Anubis April 19, 2015 12:39 PM  

1st world, non-Scots members of the UK ( English, Welsh, northern Irish ) living in Scotland. they were something like 70% to stay.

About the new black James Bond, is he a Scot, English, Welsh, northern Irish, or Asian? Its hard to keep track. His first movie he will be chased by recruiters and head hunters as the only black in the world smart enough to pass as a sigma. The women he sleeps with will be HR women hoping to sign him up to their college.

Blogger G. Tingey April 19, 2015 4:09 PM  

WRONG in the last sentence, actually.
The SCOTS ( OR those living ins Scotland at the time, whioch was the leigibilty criterion) voted full independance down, in a referendum ....
This makes an important difference.
The pathetic fact that the SNP are now inventing conspiracy theories to "explain" that loss is another story. ....

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 19, 2015 9:57 PM  

"1st world, non-Scots members of the UK ( English, Welsh, northern Irish ) living in Scotland. they were something like 70% to stay."

Yea I am hearing Local man joins ISIS when I read things like that. Is it not important when an illegal alien from Honduras sodomizes a 3yo that he is not actually a local man? http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_27929910/prosecutor-appeals-sentence-man-who-sodomized-3-year

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