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Wednesday, May 06, 2015

A Secret Master's summary

Mike Glyer has not only been doing yeoman's work in allowing all sides of the Hugo 2015 controversy to speak their bit, he's also presented one of the most balanced summaries of the situation while putting it in historical perspective:
Participation in the Hugo nominating phase has always been anemic compared to the final round. Often less than a hundred votes are needed to land something on the ballot in most categories. It’s the most vulnerable point of the award, for obviously nothing can win that doesn’t get on that list. Past incidents of bloc voting have been few and obvious—for example, L. Ron Hubbard’s posthumously published Black Genesis was nominated in 1987, while in 1989 a couple withdrew their collaborative work from the ballot after learning around 20 questionable ballots were cast for it. However, not all attempts to organize blocs have been criticized, especially in the fan categories where a demonstration of social media clout has tended to be applauded.

Only by tapping into anger over the culture wars has someone succeeded in motivating the requisite number of fans to buy supporting memberships at $40 a pop and take control of the Hugo ballot.

Among fans who are critical of the outcome there has been widespread talk of voting “No Award” ahead of nominees from the slate (again). There is also a great deal of technical discussion of rules changes designed to limit the influence of voting slates without creating any barriers to new voters.

Perhaps the most surprising thing was the rash of articles in the mainstream media in Britain and Australia, denouncing the “Sad Puppies” slate as the work of misogynists and racists. Surprising, because the news rarely covers this early phase of the awards. Nor was it clear how reporters decided slates with eight women, or a number of Hispanic writers, could be characterized in those terms, and one of the outlets, Entertainment Weekly, subsequently issued a correction on that score.

A writer for Salon also gave the back of his hand to the Hugo’s democratic rule structure: “We should have learned a long, long time ago that ‘Just let the public give their input’ is a lazy, useless and above all dangerous way to make decisions.”

The Federation of Heinlein’s Starship Troopers may have felt the same way; however, the story is more commonly admired than its philosophy of government.

The Road Ahead: Hugo Awards lore comes in both an idealized Disney version and a noir Oliver Stone version. If someone says Hugo voters are trying to pick the best stories of the year, you can find someone else who’ll say it’s just a popularity award. The enthusiast will point out growing participation has produced record–breaking numbers of Hugo voters. The cynic will dismiss that number as trivially small. But just now the only thing anyone can say about the future of the Hugos is that it’s unlikely to resemble the past; even idealists and cynics have to agree on that.
Yes, it was indeed strange that there was so much coverage of the Hugo nominations in the international media. I wonder how that may have come about? Perhaps an enterprising investigative reporter should consider looking into that. It is certainly rather remarkable how many people writing about the Hugo Awards for the Guardian have links with a certain SF publishing house that didn't do quite as well as it is accustomed in 2015.

Speaking of Secret Masters of Fandom and Mike Glyer, this comment at File 770 will likely amuse the Ilk:
It doesn’t take a genius that the regulars at Vox Populi would do it for entertainment value alone (leaving aside their philosophical beliefs). And despite the apparent belief of some, they are, in general, very intelligent and perfectly willing to light a match. For those who doubt me, spend a few days quietly reading his site. I can’t decide if it’s closer in character to a Pirate’s Den or a Wild West town.
He's referring to us responding to a proposed change in the rules in which we'd need to split up and coordinate our actions, and his conclusion is entirely correct. It's amusing to think that anyone imagines we're going to be dissuaded by the threat of being accused of "behaving in bad faith" when, as Mike Glyer noted, we're already being accused of misogyny, racism, crimethink, and perpetrating badfeels everywhere from the UK to New Zealand.

As for this site, I tend to lean towards Pirate's Den, but then, we do rather like our showdowns and seeing overconfident challengers gunned down in a hail of dialectic too. I also find it a little bizarre that some sort of contradiction between "people willing to vote along [my] recommended lines" and "mindless posters" is postulated. Forget 4GW, the basic concept of "flash mob" must be totally impossible for some of these people to grasp.

Nobody has to pay $40. Nobody has to vote at all. Nobody has to vote the way that I recommend. I'm not a dictator, nobody elected me to anything, and I'm not holding anyone's kitten hostage. They can bitch and whine all they want about "slates" and "bloc-voting", but there is nothing new about the former and there is no statistical evidence of the latter. In fact, the statistical evidence absolutely disproves the false accusation of "bloc-voting", as there is a greater variance among the ballots cast for various Rabid Puppies nominees in both absolute and percentage terms than seen in many past years.

I've sent out the material for the Hugo Voters's Packet, which should be going out later this month. I will be posting my voting recommendations in July, after I get the chance to read the works I haven't read yet.

Labels:

143 Comments:

Anonymous Cat Lady May 06, 2015 8:17 AM  

Now that I've voted how you wanted, will you let Mittens, Belvedere, Lord Dunsany, Fatso, Mr. Twinkies, Rogair, Hambone, and lucy with a small 'l' free?

Please?

Blogger Edward Isaacs May 06, 2015 8:17 AM  

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just sitting in an echo chamber, visiting sites like yours and JCW's and Monster Hunter Nation on the regular and watching Sargon of Akkad vids.

Then I notice the international media coverage of both #gamergate and Sad Puppies, and I realize our society REALLY IS falling this far, this fast.

I just hope the fall is into the trough of a sine wave, and not over the edge of a cliff.

Anonymous RedJack #22 May 06, 2015 8:32 AM  

Mr Glyer seems to have realized a bit of truth there.

Which is rather interesting, given that it takes logic to reach that conclusion

Blogger Jay Lucas May 06, 2015 8:35 AM  

First post I read here: http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/04/chicken-with-dark-lord.html (The second comment sold me on being a regular reader.)

And the Wild West town seems to fit in with the bible literacy rate.

Blogger Poor Guy May 06, 2015 8:42 AM  

I am going to throw one of my stories up on the Amazon once I devise a good cover for it, just because the end of the world is nigh.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother May 06, 2015 9:00 AM  

LET MY KITTIES GO!

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) May 06, 2015 9:09 AM  

"As for this site, I tend to lean towards Pirate's Den, but then, we do rather like our showdowns and seeing overconfident challengers gunned down in a hail of dialectic too. "
I lean towards Wild West. I like the frilly dresses.

Anonymous clk May 06, 2015 9:16 AM  

The only down side to all this rabbid puppy stuff is its pushing the other interesting subjects off the blog .. firstly we have the large mutlistate army/navy/marines exercise that is suspected of being a prelude of Federal take over of Texas and then theres the Texas "hero" cop that kills two armoured terroists wanabe's with just his trusty glock 45 -- in the past these would have be 300+ subjects here... Hardly even a peep on either here....

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 9:18 AM  

And the Wild West town seems to fit in with the bible literacy rate.

And gun ownership too, I guess.

Blogger AmyJ May 06, 2015 9:23 AM  

I'm leaning toward Wild West, too. Wasn't homosexuality rampant among pirates?

Plus, like Lulabelle said, the dresses.

Anonymous Steve May 06, 2015 9:23 AM  

“We should have learned a long, long time ago that ‘Just let the public give their input’ is a lazy, useless and above all dangerous way to make decisions.”

Who said that?


I'll take 'creepy sex fiend Arthur Chu' for $200, Alex!


I can’t decide if it’s closer in character to a Pirate’s Den or a Wild West town.

Why not both?

The batwing doors of Vox Popoli swing open and a STRANGER swaggers in, his spurs jingling as his boots clobber the bare timber floorboards.

He approaches the bar.

"I'll have a fruity wine cooler, please, barkeep!"

The hubbub of the regulars dies down noticeably and the STRANGER feels unfriendly eyes prickling the back of his neck.

The barman spits a wad of chaw into an iron bucket and bares a lopsided grin. "You aint from around here, are ya, friend? We serve whiskey for men, brandy for the girlies, and ichor for them shiny metal giants. Here's your whiskey."

The STRANGER turns to face the regulars. They are the meanest and orneriest looking bunch he has ever seen. There's a group of grizzled cowboys playing liar's dice with some pirates, a couple of moustachioed and bandoliered Mexicans sipping rotgut in sullen silence beside a ninja cyborg, and the biggest Injun he's ever seen leaning against a wall and pointedly stroking his laser-knife.

The STRANGER gulps.

"So... Vox Day? Where is this so-called 'Voice of God'?"

The piano player scurries away and the bar is suddenly filled with a tense silence.

One of the gamblers thumps a calloused fist on the table, sending cards and dice flying. "What did you say, boy?"

The STRANGER licks his lips nervously.

"I was just wondering... the sign says 'Vox Day', that means 'voice of God', right?"

The gambler sighs. His cobalt blue eyes are as hard and cold as diamonds. "That's what I thought you said. Git 'im, boys!"

As a fusillade of bullets, plasma bolts, daggers, and a particularly vicious-looking electric hatchet fly through the air with deadly accuracy, the STRANGER barely has time for one final thought.

"I shoulda stayed at the Making Light tavern."

Blogger YIH May 06, 2015 9:24 AM  

for example, L. Ron Hubbard’s posthumously published Black Genesis was nominated in 1987
That's hardly a surprise - nor is it a surprise it didn't win, Hubbard is even worse than MR CAPS LOCK.

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 9:28 AM  

Pirates.

Black flag and all.

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii May 06, 2015 9:31 AM  

Not a kitten, no. But I do miss my greyhound, oh dread and awesome lord of utter darkness, and I hope he's been consuming enough rabbits.

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) May 06, 2015 9:35 AM  

Steve - loved that saloon scene write-up!

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 9:38 AM  

@Steve
[...]stroking his laser-knife.

For some reason, I read this as "sharpening his laser-knife", which resulted in a great big question mark in my head.

Anonymous Steveo #238 May 06, 2015 9:40 AM  

Wild West Town...

because guns.
GUNS!
and because the Japanese Navy coulda invaded California, except for the guns.

*ducks*

guns & dead horses.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 06, 2015 9:42 AM  

To Glyer "racist" = white. Well the propaganda is strong in that one

Anonymous RedJack #22 May 06, 2015 9:47 AM  

OT: Appears that John C Wright's blog is down.

Blogger wrf3 May 06, 2015 9:49 AM  

More historical perspective:

In 1967, the inestimable Harlan Ellison published the "Dangerous Visions" anthology. In the forward to Lester Del Ray's story, "Evensong", Ellison wrote:

“I’ve always thought a story must stand by itself, and that the writer behind it is of no consequence to its merits.”

Nothing new under the sun.

Anonymous Steve May 06, 2015 9:50 AM  

Lulabelle - thanks :)

Student in Blue - sharpening would be better, but I really wanted to make it a laser-knife, because there's not enough lasers in stories these days, and pew pew pew!

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 9:50 AM  

Steve, write a frickin' book already so we can nominate it for a Hugo next year.

Blogger 184 (188) May 06, 2015 9:53 AM  

Neither Pirates' Den nor Wild West Town is accurate. Both are error.

It's the final Animal House party.

And everyone's carrying.

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 9:54 AM  

@Steve

If I ever have a laser gun, I shall endeavor to modify it so that whenever I pull the trigger, a sound effect of "Pew!" plays.

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 9:55 AM  

It's the final Animal House party.

And everyone's carrying.


So you're saying the Germans were going to invade the west coast?

Blogger 184 (188) May 06, 2015 9:57 AM  

No Josh, I'm saying it's the normal way for fun-loving frat boys (and girls) to attend parties. Who doesn't carry these days?

Blogger 184 (188) May 06, 2015 9:58 AM  

And the frat is Iota Lambda Kappa by the way.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2015 10:02 AM  

AmyJ May 06, 2015 9:23 AM
Wasn't homosexuality rampant among pirates?



hey, hey, HEY!

just because we walk around in puffy shirts ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFRoXoh6aks

wear golden earrings ...

accessorize with bandanas ...

handling and brandishing our unsheathed blades ...

we sing about putting "15 men on a dead man's chest" ....

keep colorful parrots named Polly as pets ...

use single shot sidearms ...

drink really sweet mixed beverages ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumbo


... ya know what? we are pretty queer.

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 10:02 AM  

No Josh, I'm saying it's the normal way for fun-loving frat boys (and girls) to attend parties. Who doesn't carry these days?

Sigh...

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:10 AM  

Looks like Wright got hacked, was used as part of botnet, and the ISP shut him down.

Anonymous Stingray May 06, 2015 10:13 AM  

Plus, like Lulabelle said, the dresses.

The dresses and the men

Definitely the Wild West.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother May 06, 2015 10:15 AM  

Y'all done forgotten about the Southron contingent of The Ilk. That just ain't rahhhgggttt...

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 10:16 AM  

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:17 AM  

Sadly, it may take quite a bit of time for Wright's blog to recover from that. Cleaning up a hacked site is an absolute nightmare.

Let that be a lesson to all of you who have important WordPress sites you can't afford to lose: Look into the issue of WordPress security NOW, before it's too late.

Anonymous Alexander Olaffson May 06, 2015 10:17 AM  

Earl Ragnar chedderman, to the longboat! There are those who claim they cannot determine whether we our the lords and masters of our wine-dark demesne or drunken cow chasers. Let us burn their dwellings and enthrall their daughters and take every brass tripod and see if the few cravens who - for the nonce - escape our wrath by abandoning their kin... can come up with a more definitive answer.

Anonymous Stingray May 06, 2015 10:21 AM  

was used as part of botnet, and the ISP shut him down.


Would you mind explaining what this means in english?

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 10:21 AM  

Bob K. Mando: "No no no Danby, you make them dance by shooting a pistol at their feet. A glock or a colt."
Danby: "I don't HAVE a pistol. how about this BAR in full auto."
Bob K.Mando: "No! That just cripples them, you want them to dance. It's funny when they dance. Here, use mine, try it on Owen there."
Danby: (throwing hand grenade) "Dance, Monkey or DIE!"
Bob K. Mando: "Dammit....."

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:26 AM  

ISP = internet service provider. The company to which he pays to host his site

Botnet = A group of sites captured by a hacker, or a group of hackers. They are programmed to do the hacker's bidding, to keep his own identity safe. If the hacker himself tried to look for vulnerabilities in other sites, that would leave a track record that would eventually lead back to the hacker, and he would get caught. So, he makes the captured sites do the dirty work instead. They bombard other sites for vulnerabilities, and when they find one, that site gets captured and becomes part of the botnet.

ISP's, when they notice that a site has become part of a botnet, shut that site down. At that point the site is probably so thoroughly infected that unless it is of absolutely huge importance, it's usually best to just shut the site down entirely. If that is not an option, there are services that clean up hacked sites. But they are not cheap, as that is manual labor.

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 10:28 AM  

Many botnet spies died to get us this information

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 10:29 AM  

What does this mean?

It means someone hacked his site and used it to do illegal things. When the people in charge noticed that they closed his site.

Anonymous Stingray May 06, 2015 10:29 AM  

Thank you.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:31 AM  

It COULD of course also be that someone has complained about there having been something un-PC on the site, and it was shut down for hate speech. Wright will probably know, when he logs in.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2015 10:34 AM  

Danby May 06, 2015 10:21 AM
Danby: (throwing hand grenade) "Dance, Monkey or DIE!"
Bob K. Mando: "Dammit....."



i protest. this isn't the way i would talk at all.

i mean, i'm perfectly aware that you can make rabbits dance with high explosives.

you just need enough high explosives set off sequentially to keep the bodies jumping for a long time.

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 10:35 AM  

ISP = internet service provider. The company to which he pays to host his site

I'm pretty sure I've only seen people use ISP to refer to the companies who provide access to the Internet, not webhosts.

Botnet = A group of sites captured by a hacker, or a group of hackers.

Quibbling over terms again, but it's not just limited to sites. The defining point is that the code being run essentially forms a collective, like the Borg.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:46 AM  

I'm pretty sure I've only seen people use ISP to refer to the companies who provide access to the Internet, not webhosts.

Both are internet services. The word applies to both.

Quibbling over terms again, but it's not just limited to sites.

I think Stingray would be delighted if you went full nerd on her. She would probably appreciate an essay on the intricacies of the subject matter. Here, let me look up her email...

Anonymous Viidad (Vile Faceless Minion #156) May 06, 2015 10:47 AM  

@ Josh

I laughed out loud.

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 10:52 AM  

@Bob K. Mando
The old values are crumbling

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 06, 2015 10:53 AM  

I lean towards Wild West. I like the frilly dresses.

@Lulabelle

Um...wow...awkward. Not really for all of us, you know.

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) May 06, 2015 10:58 AM  

" Markku

............ Here, let me look up her email..."

Markku has the info. Dangerous. I guess I'll be sure to be super-nice to him from now on.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:58 AM  

Um...wow...awkward. Not really for all of us, you know.

Yeah, that would be... another blog.

NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 10:58 AM  

Markku has the info. Dangerous. I guess I'll be sure to be super-nice to him from now on.

I've got nerds and I'm not afraid to use them.

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) May 06, 2015 10:59 AM  

" Cataline Sergius May 06, 2015 10:53 AM

I lean towards Wild West. I like the frilly dresses.

@Lulabelle

Um...wow...awkward. Not really for all of us, you know."

Oh come on. Where's your sense of fun? Post a pic of yourself in a frilly dress. You don't even have to shave your legs.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 06, 2015 11:00 AM  

Pirates.

Black flag and all.


Every member of the Dread Ilk must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Alternatively...

Every member of the Dread Ilk must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the Raven Banner, and go a viking.

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 11:03 AM  

"Every member of the Dread Ilk must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

I used to. Lately the enemy has been busy slitting his own throat. I'm going to let the enemy do the work for me.

Anonymous The other robot May 06, 2015 11:04 AM  

I think that the important voting will be at the business meeting where certain people will attempt to ensure that the unexpected does not occur again.

Don't you have to be present to vote at that time?

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 06, 2015 11:07 AM  

I followed a link from the Paw of Oberon file 770 ( second blue text) to the link of season of the red wolf which listed vox as being homophobic and racist. The post says comments are open but I couldn't see any comments or how to do so. it.https://seasonoftheredwolf.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/a-pox-on-both-their-houses-sad-puppies-vox-day-social-justice-warriors-the-hugos-circus-and-the-irrelevancy-of-a-dying-genre/
"Vox Day really is a racist, not because Social Justice Warriors and the mainstream genre Left say he is, but because his own words reveal him to be prejudiced against blacks, women and homosexuals"

I was going to direct him to http://www.gaypatriot.net/ to having his mind blown by they existence of gays that don't want more taken out of their paychecks just because LaTrina squats out a couple dozen illegitimate crack babies.

"the basic concept of "flash mob" must be totally impossible for some of these people to grasp."

They think flash mobs are Asian/white people dancing, their news doesn't cover gangs of blacks looting, not even in the recent Baltimore riots for the heroin dealer.


"If you're murdered by Islamists for cartoons, liberals support you. If you have the gall to defend yourself & survive, not so much. -TammyBruce "

Blogger Sam Hall May 06, 2015 11:15 AM  

John Wright's site is back up.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 11:18 AM  

John Wright's site is back up.

Interesting. Proper hackings never clear that fast, unless it's the most incompetent hacker ever, or unless it was noticed almost immediately after the hack, and a backup restored, thereby clearing the site.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 06, 2015 11:19 AM  

While I'm playing with derivative works... To the SJW's to Make Much of Time...

Gather ye warrens while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same rabbit that squees today
Tomorrow will be dying.

The glorious hope of banksters, the debt,
The higher it's a-going,
The sooner will its race be run,
And nearer it’s to blowing.

That warren is best which is the first,
When resources are many;
But of scarcity, the worst
Will still succeed the plenty.

Then be not coy, but take your chance,
And while ye may, go squeeing;
For once the music stops, your dance
May consist of naught but fleeing.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 06, 2015 11:21 AM  

Pirate's Den or Wild West Town? Rum or Whiskey? That's a hell of a choice to force a man to make, and I can't decide if I want to hang the SOB or make him walk the plank.

Hmmm, I think that decides it - pirate for me. Hanging involves a lot of work, building a gallows and all. Easier just to toss 'em overboard when you have as many what needs dealing with as we're looking at.

(Captcha must vote for Wild West though, cause it keeps asking us to prove we're not Yul Brynner)

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 11:25 AM  

@Markku
Both are internet services. The word applies to both.

Technically true, but in my experience not true colloquially, which was what I was trying to point out in the first place.

I think Stingray would be delighted if you went full nerd on her. She would probably appreciate an essay on the intricacies of the subject matter.

1. Nerd is the new hot. Big Bang Theory told me so. (/s)
2. Why in the world do you think that substituting "sites" with "computers" constitutes going full nerd on someone? It's changing one word and being more accurate while being just as easy to understand.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 06, 2015 11:26 AM  

Texas "hero" cop that kills two armoured terroists wanabe's with just his trusty glock 45 - Don't tell Nate. I wonder if the left would have had as much sympathy for Pam Geller if she was stupid enough to be a victim like Charlie Hebo. She was called homophobic or running ads in San Fran that showed how moslems treat gays. Ready for HilLIARy to give back $40million she took while sect of state from nations that execute gays.

We serve whiskey for men, brandy for the girlies, and ichor for them shiny metal giants- you have not seen the picture captcha. Vox gave me another wedding cake in the captcha

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 11:30 AM  

Now I want to see Yul Brenner as a pirate captain. He would be incredibly awesomely badass.

OpenID malcolmthecynic May 06, 2015 11:30 AM  

Well, damn. I broke his site.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 11:31 AM  

Sigh. This is why nerds always have to give the wall of text answer with lots of asterisks and footnotes, instead of the one that would actually have been useful to the person asking the question. And it still won't result in not getting all the usual "quibbles" from other nerds, but it will cause the asker to go "Ok, never going to ask that kind of question again".

I explained what the words meant IN CONTEXT. Because there was no way on God's green earth that she was interested in the most technically accurate and general answer to what they would mean in any imaginable context.

Blogger Daniel May 06, 2015 11:31 AM  

Mike Glyer may not be fluent in the dialectic, but he is both a student, a record keeper, and a longtime participant of SF fandom. He may not like the RP effect, but he clearly has seen an explosion in interest in his niche, and the fact that despite his initial dismay and criticism of Correia, he has nonetheless not kotowed to the ignorance of the No Awardens.

There really was only one person in fandom who could do what he is doing, and it is a credit to him that he is doing it despite it making GRRM, Johnny Con, The Guardian Gang, the Haydens, Jo Walton and others look like craven, lying fools.

Anonymous Alexander May 06, 2015 11:32 AM  

Hmmm, I think that decides it - pirate for me. Hanging involves a lot of work, building a gallows and all. Easier just to toss 'em overboard when you have as many what needs dealing with as we're looking at.

Well you settled it... just not the way you intended.

Gallows take longer to build than throwing them off overboard. Gallows represent longer time preference. Therefore, wild west it is.

If it's any consolation, I was pushing for Pirates with ya. But alas, I can no more deny the facts that I can deny Malwyn the spiked six-whip.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2015 11:54 AM  

Danby May 06, 2015 10:52 AM
The old values are crumbling



so, it seems we have action video of Malwyn using her whip.

warning: toplessness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OokCkaNP5-s


Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 11:03 AM
I used to. Lately the enemy has been busy slitting his own throat. I'm going to let the enemy do the work for me.



you're going to get soft and lazy letting the rabbits do all the work, Dread Pirate ... Russell?

that way lies the deadly sin of Sloth.

also, you KNOW that the rabbits are going to screw it up.



Danby May 06, 2015 11:30 AM
Now I want to see Yul Brenner as a pirate captain. He would be incredibly awesomely badass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAK7ZgwrcYg

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 11:55 AM  

Imagine I had said "computers" instead of "sites". What does the normal person picture in his mind when I say that? Wright's own personal computer.

Anyone who knows that websites run on computers, virtual machines or cloud services running a HTTP server, with the contents of said server compromised, is going to already understand the original message. So now, just in order to establish the most generic meaning for "botnet", in order to avoid all the usual corrections, I have to start explaining the software and hardware architecture of websites. That is a wall of text in the making. Guaranteed to make her eyes glaze over.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 06, 2015 11:55 AM  

"Alexander May 06, 2015 11:32 AM
Hmmm, I think that decides it - pirate for me. Hanging involves a lot of work, building a gallows and all. Easier just to toss 'em overboard when you have as many what needs dealing with as we're looking at.

Well you settled it... just not the way you intended.

Gallows take longer to build than throwing them off overboard. Gallows represent longer time preference. Therefore, wild west it is.

If it's any consolation, I was pushing for Pirates with ya. But alas, I can no more deny the facts that I can deny Malwyn the spiked six-whip."




You want some work? Look up keel-haul.

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 11:58 AM  

Sigh. This is why nerds always have to give the wall of text answer with lots of asterisks and footnotes, instead of the one that would actually have been useful to the person asking the question.

*looks at length of Markku's explanation, then at length of my own explanation*

Hmmm...

I explained what the words meant IN CONTEXT. Because there was no way on God's green earth that she was interested in the most technically accurate and general answer to what they would mean in any imaginable context.

So being technically accurate in regards to ISP = fine, but being technically accurate in regards to botnet = way too much?

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 12:03 PM  

So, this is how you picture the conversation, with it resulting in understanding what happened to Wright's site:

-...was used as part of botnet, and the ISP shut him down.

-Would you mind explaining what this means in english?

-ISP=companies who provide access to the Internet
-Botnet=A group of computers captured by a hacker, or a group of hackers

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 12:07 PM  

@Bob: you're going to get soft and lazy letting the rabbits do all the work

"Never attempt to murder a man who is committing suicide." -- Woodrow Wilson

that way lies the deadly sin of Sloth.

That's why I hit the gym :) While the rabbits are rabbiting, I'm working on hitting a new PR.

also, you KNOW that the rabbits are going to screw it up.

True, which will be all the more amusing. These people beclown themselves with gusto and fervor that's almost surreal.

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 12:11 PM  

@Markku

No, actually I pictured it differently.

-...was used as part of botnet, and the ISP shut him down.

-Would you mind explaining what this means in english?

-It means someone hacked his site and used it to do illegal things. When the people in charge noticed that they closed his site. (This is my exact response from further up)

I explained the situation, which I believe to be the intent of the original question, not the explanation of the terms.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 06, 2015 12:17 PM  

Texas "hero" cop that kills two armoured terroists wanabe's with just his trusty glock 45 - Don't tell Nate.

Glock 45? What caliber is that? Or did they mean a Glock 21, 30 or 36 .45 ACP? I assume they didn't mean 37, 38 or 39 .45 G.A.P. I mean, if Markku is going to have to go into details about the nuances of ISPs vs Hosts and botnets vs worms vs viruses, we can at least get our plastic gun model names right...

But assuming it was a Glock shooting .45 ACP, the cop gets partial credit for having the right caliber. And full credit for having the right targets.

Now, how long do I have to wait for a binary/linear thinker to complain that a few threads ago I was criticizing the Baltimore cops for killing a heroin dealer and now I'm praising one for killing a couple of jihadis?

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 12:22 PM  

@Bob K. Mando
Thanks for that. I was not aware of that movie at all. Funny to see Brenner with a wig though.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 06, 2015 12:25 PM  

Gallows take longer to build than throwing them off overboard. Gallows represent longer time preference. Therefore, wild west it is.

And you think a ship is quick to build, you lubberly dog? Or did you think we was going to make 'em walk the plank from yer bedroom window into a horse's waterin' trough? We gots to sail out to where they can't just swim home.

Difference being matey, a ship can be used to plunder afterwards. Or smuggle. And when you think about it, liberals and SJWs like to live near the coast...

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 06, 2015 12:31 PM  

Leftist, rope, tree...lather, rinse, repeat. QED.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 06, 2015 12:31 PM  

Now I want to see Yul Brenner as a pirate captain. He would be incredibly awesomely badass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAK7ZgwrcYg


Oh bob, you've just made Nate's day, a movie that puts Lincoln into the same group of leaders as Hitler and Bonaparte.

Anonymous joe doakes May 06, 2015 12:36 PM  

Responding to aproposed change in the rules in which we'd need to split up . . . I missed that discussion, where was it?

Blogger Doom May 06, 2015 12:41 PM  

I love the notion of being included in the ilk, if I am not quite ilk. And, yes, just that part is purely for entertainment purposes (beside the philosophy). I'm just not a good follower, don't want to be leader, but I can join in from time to time.

I don't know if I can figure out how to vote next time, but I want to do that at least once before I die. More because I'd like to see good writing nominated and win though. I'd love to be able to go to a bookstore, and be able to pick up almost any sci-fi/fantasy, or really any genre, and actually enjoy it again. Then again, putting my psychic, economic, and other size 13 up some jackwagon's sensitivities is truly pleasurable and rewarding. Two for one, I LOVE some sales!

Blogger Nate May 06, 2015 12:42 PM  

Pirates Den. This isn't even a debate. VP is the Booty Bay of the interwebz

Anonymous RedJack #22 May 06, 2015 12:49 PM  

Gentlemen,

Gallows, walking the plank, keel haul...

We have a member who specializes in crucifixion...

Let the man have some fun

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 12:57 PM  

Do the Green thing - re-use your gallows!

Anonymous Steveo #238 May 06, 2015 12:57 PM  

Holy crap Nate, there is a debate; odds are running on pedantic, nerdy chess club if this thread is any evidence.

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 1:03 PM  

Student in Blue, Markku, this can only be settled one way.

Cage match.

You can hold in a corral or on the ship's deck, but it must be held.

OpenID verusconditio May 06, 2015 1:06 PM  

Why in the world do you think that substituting "sites" with "computers"

What Markku has said is 100% correct. Beyond giving me enough to understand what he meant is entirely unnecessary because any more than that and I just don't care. He knows this so why give more?

On a semi-related note, captcha is not working with the name/url. On my computer it gives the picture which doesn't work and on other computers the comment is simply deleted.

~ Stingray

Blogger CarpeOro May 06, 2015 1:12 PM  

Plus, like Lulabelle said, the dresses.

The dresses and the men

Definitely the Wild West. "

Gotta love Kurt Russel as an actor. From Big Trouble in Little China, Soldier and Tombstone, he appears to be that rarest of men: a child star that hasn't ODd or faded into obscurity. In his small part in Fast 7 he showed the eminent good taste to suggest Diesel put down the OCrona and try a Belgian wheat instead.

Anonymous Rolf May 06, 2015 1:25 PM  

The gallows drops a man, breaking his neck. Death is relatively quick.

On a ship, you run the line through a block on the yardarm, noose at one end, a hearty band of seamen at the other, and haul away, lifting the condemned relatively slowly to dangle and sway in the wind with the roll of the ship. They die of strangulation. Officers from the port yardarm, enlisted and civilians on the other IIRC.

Blogger John Wright May 06, 2015 1:25 PM  

I hate to stick my oar in, maties, but I will point out that that is no such thing as 'Talk Like a Cowboy' Day. Eh?

In terms of science fiction, it has been a while since I've seen an honest-to-Boskone Space Pirate book.

But on the other hand, we are all overdue for the Space Cowboy book. I will write one even if no one else does. Pardner.

Anonymous JN May 06, 2015 1:35 PM  

Student in Blue, THE Markku

Homer

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 06, 2015 1:38 PM  

>Holy crap Nate, there is a debate; odds are running on pedantic, nerdy chess club if this thread is any evidence.

Yeah, but it's a half-drunk, ornery, heavily-armed chess club of pedantic nerds.

Anonymous Steveo #238 May 06, 2015 1:40 PM  

@Aeoli Pera
That it is...

Anonymous Rolf May 06, 2015 1:41 PM  

Heck, now that you mention it, John, the AI in TSCB has a privateer/pirate personality/avatar that explicitly celebrates TLAP day, and gets issued a Letter of Marque to act as a privateer. So, yeah, I'll lean that way.

Anonymous jack May 06, 2015 1:42 PM  

@Markku: I've got nerds and I'm not afraid to use them.

Those nerds; would they be made of brass?

Question: Your English is about perfect. How long did it take you to learn it? I've heard that English is hard for non native speakers/writers.

The items concerning botnet and hackers was interesting. Are there decent books on the hacker world? I don't want to become one but a bit of info might save my butt some day; or, my computers, as it were.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 06, 2015 1:42 PM  

>But on the other hand, we are all overdue for the Space Cowboy book. I will write one even if no one else does. Pardner.

Menelaus Montrose is an astronaut, technically. (I'm only on book 3.)

You can find good anime inspiration in Outlaw Star, Trigun, and Cowboy Bepop, if you're serious about this.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 06, 2015 1:45 PM  

Gallows take longer to build than throwing them off overboard. Gallows represent longer time preference. Therefore, wild west it is.

SJWs would smell worse after hanging on a rope for a while, we could always say keel hauling is giving them a much needed bath.

Good riddance Charlie Hebo
Je Suis Pamela Geller


Hebo fired a man for making a jewish cartoon but they always denigrated x-tians and Western civilization. Geller has been against jihad for years. She was behind the San Fran bus ads that showed how gays are treated in moslem nations like the ones HiLIARy took $40million from as Sect of state.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 1:49 PM  

Question: Your English is about perfect. How long did it take you to learn it?

It's hard to say when exactly one has achieved fluency. We start learning English in elementary school when we're 9-10 years old. I'd say that at about eighteen a Finn will be indistinguishable from a native speaker as far as grammar goes, but to develop a good ear for the language, you have to communicate with natives on regular basis.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 1:52 PM  

As for books, yes there are, but I can't recommend any particular one. Personally I - quite randomly - read Hacking Exposed. But that will only give you the basics, to understand enough of the lingo. To keep your knowledge current, you just have to pick things up as you encounter them, or read some hacker newsgroups.

Anonymous joe doakes May 06, 2015 1:53 PM  

Fluent: except they call the little house with the hot rocks "sow-na."

Teasing. Some of my best friends are Finlanders. No, really.

Blogger Marissa May 06, 2015 1:56 PM  

On a ship, you run the line through a block on the yardarm, noose at one end, a hearty band of seamen at the other

I had to re-read that a few times.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 1:57 PM  

Wikipedia:

The word sauna is an ancient Finnish word referring to the traditional Finnish bath and to the bathhouse itself.

Finns right, Anglo-Saxons wrong.

Blogger Student in Blue (#21) May 06, 2015 2:01 PM  

@JN

*adjusts his coke-bottle glasses*

Well, I say!

Blogger Cail Corishev May 06, 2015 2:03 PM  

I've heard that English is hard for non native speakers/writers.

For what it's worth, my language teacher was born in Holland and learned English along with a few other languages in grade school. He spoke about 14 languages fluently, and he said English was the easiest.

Blogger Marissa May 06, 2015 2:04 PM  

Finns right, Anglo-Saxons wrong.

He was criticizing the pronunciation of the word, not what the word refers to. Most English speakers say SAW-nuh, not SOW-nuh.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 2:08 PM  

Most English speakers say SAW-nuh, not SOW-nuh.

Would you criticize a Mexican for calling his country "Mehico"? Sauna is just a plain, ordinary Finnish word, taken as it is to Germanic languages.

Blogger Marissa May 06, 2015 2:11 PM  

I wouldn't, I was explaining joe doakes's comment.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 2:12 PM  

Of course I understood it. I escalated the joke.

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 2:17 PM  

English was the easiest.

Well, for a Dutch speaker, yes. Of all languages, including whatever it is they speak in Scotland, Dutch is by far the closest to English. Both are Plattdeutsch laid over a base of a Q-Goidelic ( Gaulish and Pretannic respectively) language. When England needed a new king, they even went to Holland to get one.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 2:20 PM  

There is, however, a more general principle at play, and it is one reason why Americans are seen all over the world as an incredibly obnoxious people. It is ok to take a word wholesale from another language, and change its pronunciation to better suit your own language. But if you then start behaving as if your version is the correct version, well, that's when anyone who takes linguistics seriously is going to get angry.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 2:30 PM  

Just to make it clear: Yes, I still understand that he was teasing. But teasing is always ABOUT something, and that was what it was about. Since he knows Finns, he obviously knew exactly what he was doing.

Anonymous Alexander May 06, 2015 2:48 PM  

I guess the lesson here is...

Don't start... what you can't Finnish.

Blogger Marissa May 06, 2015 2:57 PM  

Of course I understood it. I escalated the joke.

Sorry, I didn't know that. Muh aspieness.

Don't start... what you can't Finnish.

AHHAHAHA, now that's a joke I understand.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 06, 2015 3:20 PM  

"Nate May 06, 2015 12:42 PM
Pirates Den. This isn't even a debate. VP is the Booty Bay of the interwebz."




I remember a conversation I had with the guys I used to play WoW with. One day we asked ourselves the following question, if you were going to really live someplace in Azeroth, where would that be?

One guy liked Lakeshire. Pretty good answer, nice scenery and fresh water fishing on your doorstep. It's my number two choice.

One liked Goldshire.

One liked Darnassus.

I liked Booty Bay. Three things, rum, hunting and fishing, and year round warm weather. Well, maybe that's four things.

I always liked Booty Bay.

Blogger Josh May 06, 2015 3:33 PM  

I guess the lesson here is...

Don't start... what you can't Finnish.


Especially if you're Russian through it...

Anonymous Athor Pel May 06, 2015 3:34 PM  

" Danby May 06, 2015 2:17 PM
English was the easiest.

Well, for a Dutch speaker, yes. Of all languages, including whatever it is they speak in Scotland, Dutch is by far the closest to English. Both are Plattdeutsch laid over a base of a Q-Goidelic ( Gaulish and Pretannic respectively) language. When England needed a new king, they even went to Holland to get one."




The principle is like this. The closer the language is to your native tongue the easier it is to learn. The farther away the harder.

But there are some languages that are considered to be harder than others by virtue of level of complexity. DLI, (the Defense Language Institute), puts languages into categories of how hard they are to learn, for English speakers.

I found the following list with some searching:
________________
Category I languages, 26-week courses, include Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese.

Category II, 35 weeks, includes German and Indonesian

Category III, 48 weeks, includes Dari, Persian Farsi, Russian, Uzbek, Hindi, Urdu, Hebrew, Thai, Serbian Croatian, Tagalog, Turkish, Sorani and Kurmanji

Category IV, 64 weeks, includes Arabic, Chinese Mandarin, Korean, Japanese and Pashto
_______________

I was surprised at the 64 week course length for Cat 4. When I took the basic Korean course it was 47 weeks. But that was more than 20 years ago.

Anonymous Alexander May 06, 2015 3:41 PM  

Josh,

I'm afraid you can't win that one no matter what. The Finns, they'll also kill you for Stalin.

Blogger Joshua Dyal May 06, 2015 3:44 PM  

I've never understood the claim that English is so difficult to learn. We have no grammatical cases to speak of, and our conjugations are minimal. There's really not that much complexity to learn. There's a big vocabulary, but since much of it is common among all kinds of other European languages, that shouldn't be terribly difficult either.

The spelling is pretty bad, I'll give you that. Since English spelling was more or less frozen before events like the Great Vowel shift had happened, the spelling often makes little sense.

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 May 06, 2015 3:49 PM  

"Yes, it was indeed strange that there was so much coverage of the Hugo nominations in the international media. I wonder how that may have come about? Perhaps an enterprising investigative reporter should consider looking into that."

The easiest way to tell that blows were struck by both #gamergate and the puppy campaign was looking at the asymmetric response. NYT, Hollywood, British Tabloids, all laying down flak for the ultra feminist culture that's slouching towards Gomorrah. They would like to make you think you're taking on an aircraft carrier with a biplane. Fortunately, we don't care.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2015 4:00 PM  

Markku May 06, 2015 1:49 PM
I'd say that at about eighteen a Finn will be indistinguishable from a native speaker as far as grammar goes, but to develop a good ear for the language, you have to communicate with natives on regular basis.



eh, when i first started hanging out here you'd still kludge up a sentence pretty bad on occasion.

now you're probably better than 90th percentile of native born Americans.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW. May 06, 2015 4:05 PM  

Well, for a Dutch speaker, yes. Of all languages, including whatever it is they speak in Scotland, Dutch is by far the closest to English.

I read somewhere (maybe Wikipedia) that Frisian is (the closest to English.)

Blogger Feather Blade May 06, 2015 4:10 PM  

We have no grammatical cases to speak of, and our conjugations are minimal.

That's why it's so difficult to learn. Or rather, we have all of the grammatical constructs that the other languages have, but we use separate words to create them rather than changing and appending word endings like civilized (sniff!) languages.

And most of the vocab are false cognates anyway.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 06, 2015 4:12 PM  

My amateur's impression has been that English would be fairly easy to learn well enough to get by, but hard to master. Since there are virtually no inflections to learn, as long as you get the words in subject-verb-object order, you'll be able to make yourself understood well enough to get by. On the other hand, there are a lot of subtleties that make up for that lack of structure, so it seems like it would be very hard to become as fluent as a native speaker.

But that's pure speculation by someone who studied only two other languages and forgot one of them soon after passing the class.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 06, 2015 4:18 PM  

" Joshua Dyal May 06, 2015 3:44 PM
I've never understood the claim that English is so difficult to learn. We have no grammatical cases to speak of, and our conjugations are minimal. There's really not that much complexity to learn. There's a big vocabulary, but since much of it is common among all kinds of other European languages, that shouldn't be terribly difficult either.

The spelling is pretty bad, I'll give you that. Since English spelling was more or less frozen before events like the Great Vowel shift had happened, the spelling often makes little sense."



Yes, there are many things in English that make it easy. Like an alphabet. Hurray. I love alphabets. Korean has a great alphabet.

It's the other things, the weird and inconsistent things that make it hard.

Here are just two.

English has loan words galore. Lots and lots and lots of loan words. English is a sponge for words it likes. When learning a dead language like Latin helps in learning English better you know things are wonky.

Spelling and pronounciation are not consistent, at all. There are exceptions heaped on exceptions. Exceptions make learning anything exasperating and infuriating. But more so with a second language.

And remember, when talking about learning a second language where you are coming from, how different the native tongue is from the second, is as important for ease of learning as verbal facility in the student.

Blogger Joshua Dyal May 06, 2015 4:19 PM  

But that's pure speculation by someone who studied only two other languages and forgot one of them soon after passing the class.

Eh, that's me too. Frankly, I thought Russian was harder. A lot of constructs to remember; difficult to get to the point where you can do that without thinking without LOTS of practice; inflected nouns, conjugations, perfect and imperfect versions of every verb, etc. None of it was particularly difficult, just a lot to remember on the fly while you're speaking.

I even thought the same thing of conjugating Spanish after a while, especially in some of the more unusual forms that you don't use every day. Whereas in English, it's all pretty much the same with a small smattering of helper verbs and no inflections.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 4:22 PM  

Yes, there are many things in English that make it easy. Like an alphabet. Hurray. I love alphabets. Korean has a great alphabet.

I take you love Japanese thrice as much then?

Blogger John Wright May 06, 2015 4:57 PM  

SF Pirate trivia: In Poul Anderson's THE STARFOX, the main characters get Letters of Marque and Reprisal (from France, of all places), and likewise again in the girly anime series Bodacious Space Pirates (aka Miniskirt Space Pirates) the heroine inherits Letters of Marque from her missing Space Pirate dad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodacious_Space_Pirates#/media/File:Miniskirtpirates.jpg

In the Poul Anderson book, they are real privateers; in the anime, it is more like a gameshow, but which sort of turns real by the end.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:00 PM  

Less flair; that is correct. Your obsession about it is very odd. Usually people get fixated on his given name and not the Vox Dei -part, and treat it as patently obvious that Vox Day refers to Vox Dei. They usually draw conclusions - wrong ones, but conclusions nevertheless - as if the connection doesn't actually need stating. Because it doesn't.

So, I can only assume that you are under the impression that we are so stupid as to not realize that Vox Day = Vox Dei and that you somehow cause Vox emotional turmoil with it, like OH NO, NOW THEY'LL FIGURE IT OUT AND THINK ME BLASPHEMER!!!

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:07 PM  

Next thing we know, you're all

Hey guys! Guys! Guys? GUYS!!! VD = Venereal Disease! Hahahahahaha!

Hahahaha!

Haha!

*wheeze*

Haha!

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 6:08 PM  

Markku, he already did that.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:09 PM  

*Gandalf voice*

I might have known.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:14 PM  

Ok, I'll try another one.

Vox Populi is not spelled that way! So Vox Dei is really stupid, hahahahaha! *wheeze*

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 6:18 PM  

I might have known.

Yeah, scoob's OTO is predictable, dully so.

Worst sin in a environment such as this: dull predictability.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:20 PM  

I am almost entirely certain that this is not Scoobius. True, they share one common feature, they LOVE to talk about themselves. But this person doesn't actually react at all the same way to what takes place after that. He only starts the same way.

Blogger Markku May 06, 2015 6:22 PM  

Besides, I'm also almost certain that Scoobius is intelligent and educated. He just doesn't seem to read social cues very well, and goes right back to the same patterns of behavior time and time again.

Blogger Danby May 06, 2015 6:29 PM  

"an impulsive need to think of myself as a good person"

That's your problem right there. You're not. None of us are. No one is. Not one.

Blogger Russell (#0106) May 06, 2015 6:30 PM  

I am almost entirely certain that this is not Scoobius. True, they share one common feature, they LOVE to talk about themselves.

I thought so at first, but Scoob had been trying to pick fights for a couple of days without much response. That handle stopped posting around the same time OTO showed up, and the argument forms are highly similar, down to the over-the-top compliments followed by an attempt to impersonate Columbo.

If he's not Scoob, he's coincidentally similar. And I'm suspicious of coincidences.

Besides, I'm also almost certain that Scoobius is intelligent and educated.

Agreed. But that doesn't preclude him from toning it down a little as a ruse.

If I'm wrong, I'll apologize to both of them for mistaking one for the other.

Blogger VD May 06, 2015 7:20 PM  

OTO and Scoobius are the same. And he's now permanently banned and spammed.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2015 8:59 PM  

John Wright May 06, 2015 4:57 PM
in the girly anime series Bodacious Space Pirates (aka Miniskirt Space Pirates)


Miniskirt ... Space Pirates?

these ARE chicks, yes? and not sissyboys? you're SURE?

hrrrm, this may be relevant to my interests ....

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 06, 2015 10:44 PM  

John Wright:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodacious_Space_Pirates#/media/File:Miniskirtpirates.jpg

So both cowboys *and* pirates get frilly dresses.

I think we may need some modeling and pics to fully evaluate the options.

bob
these ARE chicks, yes? and not sissyboys? you're SURE?

Young high school girls (13-16, I think?) ... So underage, adorable but irritating.

Blogger Felix Bellator May 06, 2015 10:51 PM  

Rolf, you will need to secure the condemned's ankles with a line and tie it off. You really do not want a weight like that swinging around on deck.

Anonymous B. Lewis May 06, 2015 11:46 PM  

Poor Guy: I am a professional artist and designer with over 25 years in the business. I design book covers for many independent publishers. If you're interested, check out the samples of my published works over at my website. My rates are reasonable and I turn jobs around faster than anyone you'll find. References available upon request. Best of luck with your project!

Anonymous B. Lewis May 07, 2015 12:05 AM  

私はスペイン語、ドイツ語、フランス語、英語,日本語を話しの悪いです。日本語は、難しことではありません.

僕は「ミニスカ 宇宙海賊」がだいすきです。あなたたちも、それを愛します。

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