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Thursday, May 07, 2015

Get him to neurology, stat!

Seriously, David Gerrold is not merely incoherent, he's directly contradicting himself:
Here's what I suggest. Consider this a starting place for the conversation, not a finished proposal. First, we as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness -- everybody's welcome, regardless of political views, religion, sexual orientation, gender, skin color, ethnicity, place of national origin, body shape, disability, age, whatever. The only requirement is a love of fantasy and science fiction and respect for other participants.

My own rule about discussion is that disagreement should be about issues, not personalities. This is because most of us have issues, not all of us have personalities. I would recommend this as a general policy as well. I might think that X or Y is a big stinky poo-poo head, but speaking it aloud is not the best way to win points in a debate.

Second, after we reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness, we need to consider whether or not the Hugo nominating rules need to be adjusted. I believe that the administrators of the award should have the power to disqualify slate-ballots, but the mechanisms for this might be controversial....

But the point I'm working toward is a difficult one -- it's a conversation that we tend to shy away from. But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies. Groups can and do disinvite those who spoil the party.

The SFWA expelled Vox Day for his unprofessional behavior. Fandom as a community, and the Worldcon as an institution, should have the same power to invite someone to the egress. Other conventions have taken steps to protect themselves from toxic and disruptive individuals -- and based on the back-and-forth conversations I've seen, and as unpleasant a discussion as this will be, maybe it's time to have a discussion about the mechanisms for shutting down someone who has publicly declared his intention to destroy the awards.

That's the point. We cannot talk about healing while the knife is still being twisted in the wound. I can't speak for the sad puppies, I can't tell them what to do -- but I would hope that they would recognize that being perceived as standing next to a man who wants to destroy the system is not the best place to stand.
TL;DR: Worldcon must be inclusive and tolerant, so we must expel Vox Day and anyone associated with him in any way who fails to publicly denounce him before presenting themselves to us and requesting absolution.

Gerrold still hasn't figured out that there is no way to expel someone from a group who doesn't belong to it and doesn't want to belong to it. But I like where he's going with his suggestions. As I have often pointed out, it's hard to destroy things from the outside, and it's a lot easier if you can get the insiders to do it for you.

It's also amusing to see them insist that they are not at all political, when the first point is a call to establish SJW ideology as a core principle. As Brad Torgersen has said, the fish don't understand that the water in which they swim is wet.

Labels: ,

93 Comments:

Anonymous B. Lewis May 07, 2015 9:13 PM  

[W]e as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness -- everybody's welcome, regardless of political views, religion, sexual orientation, gender, skin color, ethnicity, place of national origin, body shape, disability, age, whatever.

Why?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 07, 2015 9:15 PM  

Is he their best thinker? B. Lewis you probably know their answer to that but for a follow up you could ask for proof. They always seem to come up short on proof that their ideas work.

Blogger Dave W. (#0257) May 07, 2015 9:16 PM  

Aw, Gerrold's trying Alinsky's Rule 12 again. How cute!

I swear, I just don't have enough popcorn to enjoy watching them go.

Anonymous Bah May 07, 2015 9:22 PM  

[W]e as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness -- everybody's welcome, regardless of political views, religion, sexual orientation, gender, skin color, ethnicity, place of national origin, body shape, disability, age, whatever.

Why?


Because Gerrold is an old Leftist Jewish flamer and the fascists stand ever-ready to send him to ovens if inclusiveness does not prevail.

Blogger automatthew 0062 May 07, 2015 9:23 PM  

But does their inclusiveness extend to including bad writers?

If not, why not?

Blogger Torial (#170) May 07, 2015 9:25 PM  

Yeah, how stupid do they expect everyone to be? The bait is evil!

The Sad Puppies know they are going to go all PETA on them, once they are done with Rabid Puppies!

Blogger Jason May 07, 2015 9:26 PM  

"I believe that the administrators of the award should have the power to disqualify slate-ballots, but the mechanisms for this might be controversial.... "

This made me chuckle.

I wonder what he expects the result to be beyond, people posting slates, and publically declaring them slates of books according to whatever will work for the purposes of disqualification, just to insure they cannot be nominated.

The comedy and mischief such a foolish rules change would encourage cannot be understated.

Anonymous MendoScot May 07, 2015 9:27 PM  

Brad responds.

This is why so many fans and professionals *avoid* Worldcon. WSFS. The Hugos. Etc. Because the "sniff test" is very glaring, and if the engineers of "inclusive" exclusivity (they know who they are) succeed in making it so that the poll tax (membership fee) is exorbitant, or that only attending members get to vote on the Hugo, or that the democracy is scuttled altogether (judges "your" side picks, always make sure "your" side gets the answers it wants) then Worldcon gets that much smaller, that much more exclusive, that much less relevant.

Anonymous trk May 07, 2015 9:30 PM  

This is so funny to watch. Ty for the entertainment VD. I literally laughed out loud after reading that first sentence knowing the "be inclusive BUT..." logic fail was about to happen. So rich.

Blogger VD May 07, 2015 9:30 PM  

Gerrold has no idea we're playing the long game, not the short one.

Blogger Danby May 07, 2015 9:42 PM  

@VD,
He doesn't know there is a long game.
He, like most SJWs, is literally incapable of understanding allowing your opponent an apparent victory which encourages and enshrines a fatal error. He doesn't know that such a thing is possible.
When you're and SJW, only today exists.

Anonymous takin' a look May 07, 2015 9:45 PM  

-Vox Day

Gerrold has no idea we're playing the long game, not the short one.

I always get the image of Darkness roaring with laughter whenever you say that.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell May 07, 2015 9:47 PM  

Short game? He doesn't even know how to win THAT.

Anonymous David-093 May 07, 2015 9:51 PM  

"Why?"

Because die Western man die!

Anonymous Harsh May 07, 2015 10:03 PM  

I'd like to see Harlan Ellison kick David Gerrold's ass.

Blogger Noah B #120 May 07, 2015 10:06 PM  

Over a month later and they're still in panic mode. This is awesome.

Anonymous The other robot May 07, 2015 10:07 PM  

Isn't this an interesting admission?

But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies. Groups can and do disinvite those who spoil the party.

So, we can disinvite all those unwanted illegal immigrants? Gerrold says so.

Anonymous zen0 the Egressor May 07, 2015 10:14 PM  

@ David GerroldThe SFWA expelled Vox Day for his unprofessional behavior. Fandom as a community, and the Worldcon as an institution, should have the same power to invite someone to the egress.

I see you boldly do profess
An invitation to egress
To satiate your tenderness
As you pose inside your frilly dress
You fain such hurt, but I digress
You'll miss the perks, that's what I guess.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:14 PM  

How many cattle cars do you think we would fill?

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 07, 2015 10:16 PM  

But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies. Groups can and do disinvite those who spoil the party.


*12 year old boy is browsing through the shelves of his local library*

*intrigued by the image of a rocket, he reaches for an SF book*

SF Community Police: "Hold it right there, young man."

Boy: "What?"

SFPC: "As a male, you are disruptive to the SF fandom community. You're not invited."

Boy: "I was only going to read the cover."

SFPC: "You're not allowed to be a fan. Now back away from the book or I'll have you arrested."

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:17 PM  

I know. I did not realize that their anxiety turbines went to 11. Just wait until we go after the things they really care about.

Blogger Nate May 07, 2015 10:18 PM  

So... if Rabid Puppies is a side show... why did Rabid Puppies kick Sad Puppies ass?

Blogger Crude May 07, 2015 10:19 PM  

That's the point. We cannot talk about healing while the knife is still being twisted in the wound. I can't speak for the sad puppies, I can't tell them what to do -- but I would hope that they would recognize that being perceived as standing next to a man who wants to destroy the system is not the best place to stand.

Fuck this guy.

They're not gatekeepers anymore. They're in no position to lay down the terms on which they'll so graciously consider possibly ;accepting' us. In case Sad Puppies, Gamergate and otherwise didn't make it clear: we'll go wherever we fucking please, and to hell with their 'perceptions'.

Blogger Nate May 07, 2015 10:20 PM  

"No, I don't like some of Card's public utterances. But he's never attacked his colleagues, he's never attacked the SF community. And he's a helluva good writer"

So... Attacking colleagues is bad. One wonders when NK Jemison will be reprimanded by Mr Gerrold.

Blogger Raghnall Ó Mordha May 07, 2015 10:24 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Raghnall Ó Mordha May 07, 2015 10:25 PM  

I have an issue with one phrase that is bandied about quite a bit nowadays..."First, we as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness". I question that premise. Why do we need to commit ourselves to inclusiveness? The hallmark of a connoisseur is the ability to discriminate. Between that which is good, that which is bad, and that which is superlative.
If we surrender to inclusiveness and no longer discriminate, we cease to be Oenophiles and revert to park bench dwellers drinking MD 20/20 from a bottle in a bag.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:25 PM  

Full savages get punished by having to drive the train, Nate.

Anonymous Alexander May 07, 2015 10:27 PM  

I want to hear more about this freedom to disassociate thing. I think it could have some interesting, real world applications. So if Mr. Gerrold wouldn't mind expanding on that point a little further, I'm all ears.

Anonymous BGS May 07, 2015 10:29 PM  

"First, we as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness".

If you where a really bad sci fi writer, my love. The story of a midget transsexual dyslexic obese person of color.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:29 PM  

And yes, this is the lamest declaration of surrender ever. Don't worry David, we are gracious masters. You can revise it as many times as you need until the end.

Anonymous zen0 May 07, 2015 10:30 PM  

@ Raghnall Ó Mordha

If we surrender to inclusiveness and no longer discriminate, we cease to be Oenophiles and revert to park bench dwellers drinking MD 20/20 from a bottle in a bag.

Nice one. Cultural Marxists romanticize the struggle masses of whatever pursuasion, but they do not really like them, and find them quite inferior.

Anonymous MrGreenMan May 07, 2015 10:31 PM  

@Raghnall

This is, in decreasing order of ire, committing themselves to the non-Christian, the non-Western, the non-male, the non-white, and the non-heterosexual. The words have private meanings to them - much as a little English village with white English kids has 0% diversity and a little Nigerian village with black Nigerian kids has 100% diversity.

Blogger Michael Maier May 07, 2015 10:32 PM  

Good point, Nate. Brad doesn't seem to be much of an ally.

And Gerrold is only making me less inclined to give the lying, hypocritical SJWs a fair shake in my voting this year.

Blogger Noah B #120 May 07, 2015 10:32 PM  

"How many cattle cars do you think we would fill?"

That's hard to say. How many of them are there?

Blogger Rabbi B May 07, 2015 10:43 PM  

"Worldcon must be inclusive and tolerant . . ."

Yes, the champions and paragons of tolerance and inclusiveness.

These spineless snot-gobblers who expect tolerance everywhere and who feign to practice tolerance toward every man of every color, of every faith, of every orientation, congratulating themselves for shunning even the slightest appearance of a denigration, and yet PRACTICE the lowest, meanest, and most insensitive intolerance towards "anyone associated with [VD] in any way who fails to publicly denounce him . . ."

"I would hope that they would recognize that being perceived as standing next to a man who wants to destroy the system is not the best place to stand."

Since they live in constant fear and torment of how they might be "perceived", they apparently think that we should be no less animated and governed by what people may think, or say, or do about us. The contradiction between their demands for acceptance and tolerance of their views on the part of the Sad Puppies and their denunciation of VD and the Sad Puppies couldn't be more clear and clearly risible.

I guess their tolerance and inclusiveness does not extend to the more "toxic and disruptive" among us. It's a shame. They don't know what they're missing. We're a lot of fun to be around.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:49 PM  

Brad is a flanking ally. Until he runs away, he is going to draw their fire and inspire the sjws to kill civilians...and the families of the dead will turn to us. Forgive his missteps, as they don't harm us in any way.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2015 10:51 PM  

I agree. Brad was useful. He tried moderation.

Now we don't need to try it again.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 07, 2015 10:53 PM  

First, we as a community need to reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness

Before we throw out Vox and Rapid Puppies.

Here is the thing, this cri du coeur for inclusiveness is really just an SJW, Call to Worship. Just some rote prayers to be offered up at the start of service, before working his way to the sermon. The words aren't meant to be dwelled upon or even seriously considered. It's just something that has to be done so he can get it out of the way, before getting down to the real business at hand.

This was just drive-by hypocrisy on David Gerrold's part.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:55 PM  

Yeah, but they aren't Rabbi. And we have the most fun with those who are incapable of having it. They tend to break out in hives.

That is what they are afraid of right now.

Hives.

They haven't got a clue that we are carriers of a plague that could do them in forever.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) May 07, 2015 10:56 PM  

Damn. Seriously. Just... damn.

He should have stopped after the second quoted paragraph, but went "full retard" instead.

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 10:56 PM  

Yup.

Blogger Michael Maier May 07, 2015 10:58 PM  

Brad seems more and more dismissive of RP despite, as Nate points out, that the RP numbers made SP much more successful and the SJW attacks have only become more shrill and obnoxious.

The SJWs know they're going to get knocked the Hell out this year and they are not moderating or accommodating us "BadThinkOthers" in the least.

Thus, I find it hard to see what Brad thinks he could possibly have to gain by softly shooing us under the bus.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 May 07, 2015 10:59 PM  

Since Gerrold is the Guest of Honor this year will they exclusively reserve one of the fainting couches just for him?

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 May 07, 2015 11:01 PM  

David Gerrold is the gift that keeps on giving. He's a tribble farmer. I can only hope he's appointed the Permanent High Rapporteur for Diversity over the Hugos with full authority to enforce inclusiveness by immediate expulsion from fandom. "You'll never eat lunch at this con again kid!"

Blogger Nate May 07, 2015 11:06 PM  

"Thus, I find it hard to see what Brad thinks he could possibly have to gain by softly shooing us under the bus."

Basically brad is taking the megaphone we handed him... and using it to shout about how we don't matter.

Blogger rcocean May 07, 2015 11:06 PM  

It seems that under Stalinist Gerrold everyone will be allowed to vote but some votes will be more equal than others. Under Comrade Gerrold, selected "administrators" will disqualify any Hugo votes that are "slate votes". What are "Slate votes"? Anything the "administrators" say they are. As Stalin said, it doesn't matter who votes, it only matters who counts the votes.

Blogger rcocean May 07, 2015 11:08 PM  

Brad has a great response. Of course, all his protestations that he is not a wrecker allied with Fascist running dog Vox Day will do him no good.

Blogger Harsh May 07, 2015 11:12 PM  

So I assume Mr. Gerrold won't complain when we gain control and kick the SJWs out of the SF community on the basis of our need to "protect itself from disruptive agencies".

Anonymous Jack Amok May 07, 2015 11:16 PM  

First, we must lie to ourselves about how noble we are by claiming we are committed to inclusiveness while our strongest desire is to exclude people who challenge our delusions of adequacy. .

Second, we must lie to ourselves about how powerful we are by pretending our scorn is a potent weapon that will wound people who think we are complete buffoons.

Third, we must lie to ourselves that the system we have taken control of is still respected enough that anyone besides ourselves would feel any remorse at its destruction.

Did I miss anything in his declaration?

Blogger rcocean May 07, 2015 11:18 PM  

Gerrold has turned into Station Manager Lurry with Brad as Captain Kirk and VD as Mr. Spock.

Blogger rcocean May 07, 2015 11:20 PM  

Like most SJW's old Stalinists Gerrold isn't "lying to himself" - he's lying to everyone else except the SJW clique.

Anonymous The other robot May 07, 2015 11:20 PM  

I wonder if they realize that with Castalia republishing some old favorites and some good new stuff and with all this noise around how much bad think Vox engages in and how he is a homophobic whatever that there will be lots of men who will be interested in buying books from Castalia. Maybe boys will be interested as well.

And, contrary to what Vox said a while ago, I think he is a better writer than McRapey. I have never wanted to reread his books. I am happy to reread QM:AMD and QM:APM

Anonymous BGS May 07, 2015 11:39 PM  

revert to park bench dwellers drinking MD 20/20 from a bottle in a bag.

If you thought the CEO of Apple wailed his lamentations at not being served Pizza at his gay wedding, just think of how he would react if the purveyors of MD 20/20 would not participate.

Blogger overcaffeinated May 07, 2015 11:42 PM  

Called this correctly at "we as a community." Why don't you just say what's on your mind instead of attempting to ritually invoke a 'community' (a Newspeak term on the level of 'inclusive' and 'equality').

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 11:45 PM  

Basically brad is taking the megaphone we handed him... and using it to shout about how we don't matter.

Yes, but this is effectively PSYOPS, even if Brad doesn't get it. See, Brad only has two sides to pick from, and he has clearly picked the side, and hasn't switched yet. Ultimately, whether he realizes it or not, he ends up being the bastard whispering "easy, easy...easy, my sweet, the bad man can never harm you" while the bad man slides the blade in... to the hilt. Like a surgeon.

So even though he may be attempting to sound reasonable to the poor SJWs, he ends up being the psycho kindness killer from hell. They hate him. He knows this. Although it is poor form for him to dismiss the reigning ruling body as "weeds", it isn't like anyone thinks he's right, or the main threat anyhow.

He reminds me of one of those less-than-stellar generals who nonetheless gets enough of the job done to matter. If he was coming here and trying to settle us down or tone policing us, or giving us strategy, that would be one thing. But he is literally telling our enemies to pay no attention to us.

This is bad...how?

Blogger Daniel May 07, 2015 11:47 PM  

And didn't they hear the Toad of Tor? The Hugos belong to Worldcon. Fandom can have their "community" somewhere else.

Anonymous taqiyyologist May 07, 2015 11:58 PM  

OT hory shet I was just thinking about Ms. Pacman.

Ms.

Was that the start of gamergate's nemesis? Right there?

I never played all of Will Crowther's Adventure , but I'm gonna go ahead and guess that there's no fisting or TG characters, nor even references to such in any bit of it (pun!).

Ms. Thor. Grr.

Anonymous taqiyyologist May 08, 2015 12:01 AM  

Had the arcade game makers in the 80s been even more forward thinking, we would have seen Blacman and Ms. Blacman.

Anonymous taqiyyologist May 08, 2015 12:04 AM  

Gotta give them commies credit for Ms. The initial infiltration, right there. Probably influenced by some

never mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms._Pac-Man

Ms. Pac-man is patient zero.

Blogger Daniel May 08, 2015 12:10 AM  

I always thought the Ms. was a Luke-Leia thing, so that gamers could be inclusive: was she Pac-Man's wife, sister, cat lady neighbor? All three?

Besides, if it really was feminist propaganda, she would have been called Ms. Pac-Mansplain.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2015 12:16 AM  

Is it not rherorically much better that we had someone actually try moderation and believe in it, than to say that it wouldn't have worked and they just have to trust us on that?

Blogger automatthew 0062 May 08, 2015 12:22 AM  

"Is it not rhetorically much better that we had someone actually try moderation and believe in it, than to say that it wouldn't have worked and they just have to trust us on that?"

No.

Everybody hates the lukewarm mouthful.

Blogger automatthew 0062 May 08, 2015 12:23 AM  

Which Brad is experiencing, but probably not learning.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2015 12:24 AM  

Better for US, I mean. To radicalize the overwhelming majority next year.

Anonymous Viidad May 08, 2015 12:53 AM  

@ The other robot

Agreed. QM:AMD was great entertainment with unexpected depth. Solid, classic writing.

Anonymous Viidad May 08, 2015 12:55 AM  

As for Brad, he may have helped... but I'm damned sick of pussy moderates. F#$%^$G BURN IT DOWN ALREADY!!!

I mean, uh, Mayweather. Long game. Yeah.

I'm trying. I really am.

Anonymous The Original Hermit May 08, 2015 1:05 AM  

"Gerrold has no idea we're playing the long game, not the short one."

No army could cross the desert. But maybe a small army could get a quarter of the way, and leave a cache of water. And do that several times. And another small army could use part of that cache to go further, maybe reach halfway, and leave a cache. And another small army...
It had taken months, a third of the men had died, of heat and dehydration and wild animals and worse things that the desert held...
You had to have a mind like Vorbis's to plan it.
And plan it early. Men were already dying on the desert before Brother Murduck went to preach; there was already a beaten track when the Omnian fleet burned in the bay before Ephebe.
You had to have a mind like Vorbis's to plan the retaliation before your attack.
-Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

Blogger Daniel May 08, 2015 1:15 AM  

Everybody hates the lukewarm mouthful.

True, but even this is to our advantage. "You took the prophet who warned you of us and stoned him. What mercy then do you deserve?"

Blogger kudzu bob May 08, 2015 2:34 AM  

@Harsh

I'd like to see Harlan Ellison kick David Gerrold's ass.

I realize that Harlan is elderly and recovering from a stroke, but I still find it intriguing that an outspoken leftist (albeit an honest one) who has won eight-and-a-half-Hugos has said nothing on this issue. Even a few words of support from him would be deemed quite helpful to the SJW cause, given his prestige. Surely they must have reached out to him many times by now.. And yet from Harlan there is only silence.

Blogger Shimshon May 08, 2015 2:51 AM  

It has long been believed that the hard limit of cognitive dissonance that man can tolerate was six impossible things at once (and only before breakfast). David Gerrold has achieved the previously believed fatal level of SEVEN impossible things, AFTER breakfast. A study has now been initiated to see if this level of extreme brain dysfunction is more prevalent among the SJW population in general.

Anonymous Scintan May 08, 2015 3:11 AM  

Vox Day is a side show. A red herring. Don't water that weed.


Fascinating

Anonymous Peter Garstig May 08, 2015 3:33 AM  

Does it hurt?

Blogger Bogey May 08, 2015 3:35 AM  

Hilarious, not usual you get such a blatant example of someone talking out of both sides of his mouth.

On the one hand he wants to be all inclusive but on the other he wants the Constitutional right to free association, what will it be Gerrold?

OpenID joshtheaspie May 08, 2015 3:38 AM  

"But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies. Groups can and do disinvite those who spoil the party."

So... is he affirming the ability of Israel to kick out arabs, and the rightness of such an ability?

What about the ability of arab nations to kick out western education and western thinkers?

Christians to show feminists, divorcees, and homosexuals the door if they choose not to reform and follow the actual edicts of the religion? (Of course, in America, that would leave a very small number of Christians left).

What about the ability of Baltimore to arrest the rioters en mass and ship them else-where?

Or perhaps he thinks that those in a given country illegally can be sent else-where?

What about leagues of nations deciding unilaterally to turn nations "disruptive" to a region (such as, say, Cuba in the Americas) into glass parking lots? Which countries get to decide this?

Is he saying arabs slaughtering all Isralis would be a good thing?

Blogger IM2L844 May 08, 2015 4:03 AM  

What in the hell is keeping Gerrold's head from exploding?

*bows head*

Please, Lord, don't let it be that I'm just too stupid to grasp the magnitude of his noetic scintillations.

OpenID eidolon1109 May 08, 2015 4:05 AM  

My inner pedant can't get past the fact that he talks about "disruptive agencies" rather than "agents." He's an author, you say? I suppose you don't have an editor on a blog.

Anonymous Gary May 08, 2015 4:20 AM  

This guy is a writer? Forget his head, I thought my mine was going to explode.

We must exclude no one while coming up for a way of excluding those we don't like comrades!

Blogger Cail Corishev May 08, 2015 4:40 AM  

But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies.

He could write for VDare!

Blogger Rantor May 08, 2015 4:53 AM  

"There is no secret cabal of leftists," D Gerrold.

Yup, there has been nothing secret about the cabal for a long time. Seem to still be in the first stage of grief, denial. They still don't understand that they are lying on the floor and that man counting over their head means something bad has happened. Once the count has finished, they'll be dragged away, their head bobbing listlessly. Having no wind with which to speak, inwardly they tell themselves they are still in the game. But the doors have closed and the sound of a siren is now adding itself to the throbbing pain inside their head.

Blogger ScuzzaMan May 08, 2015 4:55 AM  

"It's also amusing to see them insist that they are not at all political, when the first point is a call to establish SJW ideology as a core principle. As Brad Torgersen has said, the fish don't understand that the water in which they swim is wet."

Maybe they understand, maybe they don't.

But by loudly and long proclaiming their superior understanding they have removed the burden on others to give them the benefit of the doubt (should there be any remaining).

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 08, 2015 5:20 AM  

I find it hard to see what Brad thinks he could possibly have to gain by softly shooing us under the bus.

I don't know Brad or read his stuff, so this could be off-base. But he sounds like a Nice Guy. Nice Guys believe that A) SJWs can learn, and B) compromise with them is possible.

When the downtrodden, outnumbered Hero finally gets the upper hand, he's supposed to nobly offer a truce to his Enemy. His Enemy will be so impressed by his fortitude and nobility that he will gain a new respect for the Hero, and they will forge a new, better understanding based on mutual respect. Everyone lives happily ever after. Think of all the fantasy stories and buddy movies that are based on that kind of reversal.

So now that Vox has the SJWs on the ropes, he's supposed to back away and offer them a draw, and they're supposed to be so relieved and impressed that they turn over a new leaf. Then everyone can get along and just focus on good writing.

But as Corwin said to Borel outside the Courts of Chaos, this isn't the Olympic Games. If the Hero offers a truce, his Enemy will only use that to prepare another attack on him -- probably a knife in the back. The Hero has no choice but to carry the battle until it's over and the Enemy is entirely vanquished (sometimes in the stories he learns this after multiple attempts at a truce fail). Nice Guys have a very hard time accepting that.

Anonymous Giuseppe May 08, 2015 6:02 AM  

You know what? That screed feom DG, just ensured that short of Vox joining ISIS, I aim to be a lifelong RP supporter. As Nate said: Fuck these people.

Blogger SirThermite May 08, 2015 6:22 AM  

Gerrold: "Inclusiveness...blah, blah, blah...issues not personalities...blah, blah blah...we refuse have sex with Vox or any of his minions!"

Vox: "Mating? No, we're exterminating. You've been replaced, you no longer matter, and WE DON'T CARE"

Anonymous philip #023 May 08, 2015 7:15 AM  

@Gerrold

I really don't care. I'm rabid.

Blogger VFM 188 May 08, 2015 8:12 AM  

@CC: Very insightful analysis of Brad's words and actions. But I like Brad. He's got a kindness and generosity of spirit that makes him likable, yet at the same time it makes him easy meat for the SJW's. He is a Russian Menshevik circa 1916, before the minority Bolsheviks seized power and started exterminating his kind.

But in Russia in 1917 there were no Rabid Puppies, i.e. a revolutionary faction prepared to attack and destroy the Bolsheviks before they could seize power and install the murderous dictatorship they always wanted. So in a sense the Rabid Puppies are protecting the Sad Puppies from an attempted putsch by the Bolsheviks...I mean the SWJ's.

Bottom line: the Sad Puppies are good people, they just don't fully understand the vicious depravity of their SJW enemies. Rabid Puppies do. Oh do we ever....

Anonymous Eric Ashley May 08, 2015 8:14 AM  

Its possible gents, that Brad might become more of a terror than Vox. Why? Because Nice Guys, once they finally lose their temper, tend to react by pulling out nuclear weapons.

Vox is willing to accept a surrender. Once Brad loses his cool, he might be 'No Quarter!'

Blogger pbuxton May 08, 2015 9:34 AM  

“Kerensky, that jerk—if only he’d shot a few people, millions would be alive.” — Arnold Beichman in front of the Winter Palace

Blogger darkdoc May 08, 2015 10:04 AM  

You keep using that word, inclusive.

I think it does not mean what you think it means.

Blogger VFM 188 May 08, 2015 10:06 AM  

Kerensky was interviewed many years later, in the 1950's on American TV (he'd escaped to the U.S. after the revolution before they could liquidate him). He was asked, "Why didn't you just start arresting Bolsheviks and throwing them in jail?" when they started moving to seize power. He answered something like "We couldn't do a thing like that, we were social democrats, we wanted democracy for everyone." And thus consigned millions upon millions suffering, misery, slavery and death.

Big mistake. One the Rabid Puppies do not and will not make.

Blogger pbuxton May 08, 2015 10:10 AM  

“Kerensky, that jerk—if only he’d shot a few people, millions would be alive.” — Arnold Beichman in front of the Winter Palace

Blogger Buddy E. May 08, 2015 10:21 AM  

Brad's only about 10 years behind in dealing with these asshats. He'll figure it out in due course.

Anonymous horsewithnonick May 08, 2015 12:25 PM  

"Demons run when a good man goes to war."

Blogger Fatebekind May 08, 2015 4:19 PM  

Why can't Gerrold concentrate on finishing his Chtorr series?

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