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Saturday, May 02, 2015

Police accountability

It appears there has been at least one positive consequence of the Baltimore riots:
Six city police officers were charged Friday in the death of Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old man who suffered fatal spinal injuries last month while in custody, a swift development in a case that has heightened the national focus on policing in black communities.

The announcement by State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby, the city’s chief prosecutor, surprised many in a city where officials had cautioned for days that the investigation might not come to a quick resolution. Spontaneous celebrations broke out in some neighborhoods that were roiled by looting and violence after Mr. Gray’s funeral on Monday, while police union officials said they were disappointed in what they called a rush to judgment.

The most serious charges were brought against Officer Caesar Goodson, who was driving a police transport van that brought Mr. Gray to a police station after his April 12 arrest. Mr. Goodson, 45 years old, was charged with second-degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and other charges.

Officers William Porter, 25, Lt. Brian Rice, 41, and Sgt. Alicia White, 30, were each charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office. Officers Edward Nero, 29, and Garrett Miller, 26, were charged with second-degree assault and misconduct in office. Lt. Rice and Messrs. Nero and Miller were also charged with false imprisonment for making what Ms. Mosby termed an illegal arrest of Mr. Gray.

The officers surrendered to police and bail was set in amounts ranging from $250,000 to $350,000, according to court records and state officials. By Friday night, all six officers had posted bail and been released, according to public records. Like Mr. Gray, three of the officers, including Mr. Goodson, are African-American.
I have no doubt that the six officers will get off without a penalty, but at least the case will draw further attention to the problem of US police believing they are able to freely murder US citizens without being held accountable. Even though they will probably be "exonerated" by the legal system, the arrest and trial itself serves as a moderate deterrent for future officers tempted to impose rough justice on the public.

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129 Comments:

Blogger Gordon May 02, 2015 7:14 AM  

Oh, I think these six cops are going to suffer some serious consequences. They have been designated as the fall guys (and girl) and the fix is in. It's not like the city and the people who run it are going to do any soul searching. I don't think the second-degree murder charge will stand, but I could be wrong. The jury could be chosen from the fine residents who spent the other night liberating razors, baby formula and the contents of ATMs.

Vox, you live in Italy. The prosecutors and police there are fairly well known for abuses of power and discretion. Have you suffered any consequences of your own for your choice of residence?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 02, 2015 7:18 AM  

And we'll get months of racism from the media that would have impressed the Der Sturmer editors for its ferocity. 'Murka fuck yeah.

Maybe one good thing might come out of this show trial is that the Ned Flanders type of conservative leader who sits on the edge of his chair when being interrogated by the media might just be rejected by the masses of consheeple.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 7:40 AM  

They should have tacked on a conspiracy charge as well.

Anonymous ZhukovG May 02, 2015 7:42 AM  

While it would be nice to these six thugs get the book thrown at them. I am pessimistic.

Blogger sykes.1 May 02, 2015 7:46 AM  

We also have a President who claims the right to kill Americans without trial and has actually done so.

Of course, his main claim to fame is being a serial mass murderer.

Blogger Buddy E. May 02, 2015 7:47 AM  

While in glad to see some sort of attempt at accountability, this is coming off more a as a witch hunt than anything else. FFS they are charging the officer that put the SECOND suspect in the van. I really don't see how the arresting officers are culpable for what the driver potentially did, either, especially seeing there's no conspiracy charge. If the driver rolled on a nickel ride, nail his ass to the wall. I'd there was a conspiracy to cover that up, charge them. That's not what we're seeing here though.

Anonymous Earl May 02, 2015 7:50 AM  

They all posted bail, over $250k each?!

Anonymous x May 02, 2015 8:02 AM  

all a set-up for a National Police Force.

Political theatre to federalize police into a Gestapo.

But yeah, let's all cry tears for poor innocent Freddie's "murder"...

Anonymous SugarPi May 02, 2015 8:05 AM  

Oh, good... justice, so peace, right? Right? Hello...

Anonymous jm May 02, 2015 8:07 AM  

Yeah, Al Sharpton is calling for the nationalization of the police. Clearly he does not ever expect a Republican to sit in the White House again.

Blogger Alexander Thompson May 02, 2015 8:11 AM  

This isn't good either. It's a political rush job by a questionable prosecutor.

Blogger Buddy E. May 02, 2015 8:19 AM  

@Alexander Thompson

Yea woman prosecutor who's husband is up for re-election on the city council. No conflict of interest there at ALL ;-)

Anonymous x May 02, 2015 8:27 AM  

Obama called for National Police back in 2008: mobile.wnd.com/2008/07/69601

Van Jones (founder of Occupy) and Bill Ayers also.

Anonymous p-dawg May 02, 2015 8:32 AM  

I think they should call the national police force the "Secret State Police". It has a certain ring to it.

OpenID luagha May 02, 2015 8:36 AM  

Yep. For all we hear about the 'nickel ride' there was another perp in the paddy wagon and he was unharmed.

The cops are leaking that the toxicology test will show that Freddie was tripping balls on heroin at the time as he was known to do. Given that, the story of Freddie thrashing in the back of the van on his own makes more sense, and the charges the prosecutor brought are a big over-reach.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 8:47 AM  

The Jewish media is on the hunt for the great White defendant. It is always about pushing the narrative. This is about gravitating to any excuse to hold an anti-racism party. It is about fueling the engine. They have to search out and then glamorize any mistakes, in order to inflame the crowd. This is pouring fuel on the flames. It is about feeding the Social Justice Machine with Victims so SJWs can gloat and party!

I think everybody is blowing this out of proportion including the prosecutor. The driver who has the most serious charges is a 45 year old Negroe. There are three Negroes charged. If you listen to Marilyn Mosby this is about """""systemic change""""", like nationalizing the police force everywhere! I don't think some people understand what is going on.

There is also the possibility that this man suffered a hangman's injury in a previous altercation in the past that brought this about. Or a bone deficiency. We don't know anything at this point!!!! Certainly NOT 2nd degree murder.

Has anybody listened to the Negress Marilyn Mosby????? Have any of you listened to her? She is a SJW graduate of Oberlin College!! Vox, you are attacking SJWs all the time. Marilyn Mosby is the poster child of SJWism, a product of Oberlin College. Does she talk like a WASP with English Common Law experience? Does she act like an experienced WASP Lawyer?

NO!

This is a witch trial. This is a Salem Witch Trial to catch the bogeymen of the SJWism. This State Attorney Negress has NOT done her homework---She has NOT gone to a Grand Jury---She is going to have her ass handed to her. She has NO real world experience whatsoever! And it shows.

This is all a disgrace. This is about Political Correctness/Social Justice. If you run from the cops, you will be chased down forcibly. This has to fail and when it does, Baltimore will be burned to the ground. I think some people are jumping the gun on this.

Blogger Salt May 02, 2015 8:53 AM  

No over-reach at all. He was in their custody with both arms and legs restrained. His safety became their responsibility.

I once watched as Fisheries officers handcuffed a guy, transferred him to their boat with only a life-preserver loosely placed over his head. His life was imperiled because of them.

Anonymous George May 02, 2015 8:56 AM  

The police have a few bad apples, but for the most part they are "rough" on people who deserve it - the thugs, the violent, the criminal class. If you are polite to police they are almost always polite to you.

I don't really have a problem with the police being rough on the criminal class - they need to be, and I WANT the criminal class to live in fear. The criminal class needs to feel intimidated and SCARED. And following laws to the letter isn't deterrent enough.

I live in NYC and I take the subways everyday. The black criminal underclass here is waiting to explode - and I remember what it was like in the 90s when they had a sense of impunity. It was terrible. These people need to be AFRAID or they will go wild. And the only way to do that is for the police to be "rough" beyond what the law allows. They need to basically oppress and intimidate the criminal underclass so the rest of us can live in peace. I've seen quite a few examples of the police in NYC being rough and doing stuff that wasn't legal and I thought it was fine.

The police are dealing with these thuggish types every day, day in day out, so that you and me don''t have to and can live in peace. Of course they're gonna be rough on them - they KNOW they have to be.

I was once arrested for a suspended license and taken to central booking in Manhattan. When they gathered everyone to put into different cells, it was like 90% black, and this big black police officer gave a speech that I am sure was completely illegal. He was aggressive, violent, and was cursing the whole time, and saying how they would beat the crap out of anyone who stepped out of line. Those tactics are necessary for dealing with thuggish types.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:06 AM  

"Yep. For all we hear about the 'nickel ride' there was another perp in the paddy wagon and he was unharmed."

He was picked up a half hour after Gray was put in the van. Gray was arrested around 5 blocks from the police station he was transported to. The second person was not put in the van until the van had already driven miles out of it's way and made at least one undocumented stop that was caught on a security camera.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/30/us/what-happened-freddie-gray-arrested-by-baltimore-police-department-map-timeline.html?_r=0

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:07 AM  

George, in most of the nation the cops are the "criminal class".

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:08 AM  

"I once watched as Fisheries officers handcuffed a guy, transferred him to their boat with only a life-preserver loosely placed over his head. His life was imperiled because of them."

There was a recent case where a water deputy lost a handcuffed man out of his boat. The citizen drowned, the cop got a paid vacation.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 9:09 AM  

Thanks for visiting us from the 1950s, George.

I wouldn't expect to see any punishment for these cops beyond loss of job, maybe nothing worse than suspensions with pay. Though being arrested and having your mugshot posted for the world to see isn't exactly a picnic, of course.

If the cops were all white, or at least the driver were, we might see some scapegoats. But since that's not the case, it'll be dealt with like all black-on-black crime: both sides are the true victims, and the fault lies with The Man. The main thing they'll have to decide is how best to make it all go away. They're already shifting the story on Gray from martyr to criminal, but no matter how they portray it, the riot-inclined are not going to be happy with the results, because either black cops will be punished or a black victim will get no justice. It's no-win, so they'll drag it out as long as possible so some will forget (high time preference), and hope that some other race-riot-worthy story takes precedence.

Overreaching on the charges makes sense too, because that way they can tell the Gray supporters, "Hey, we tried to get justice. You can see how seriously we tried to punish these people, but the System failed you."

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 9:14 AM  

I'm with George. You need a "rough" police force.

What is happening is that the amoral Negroe Thugs are conditioning the police to respond in kind. It is a feedback loop. This people play games all the time. I listened to a Baltimore cop on the Hannity Radio Show. He said, this people fake medical situtations to keep from going to booking. They make up stuff all the time. So here you have another situation with a con saying "I have a med problem". The officers are going "yah right" and shove them in the car. There is NO Trust in the Hood. It is a Thug culture which Rap and Hip Hop celebrate and create in its listeners.

What is more disturbing is the amount of White SJWs walking in the celebratory parade yesterday. Aren't we all back seat drivers to a situation we have NO clue on. Baltimore is 48% Black with a Negroe Mayor, Negroe Police Chief, Negroe State Attorney, and on and on. You mean to tell me that the Negroes running that city can't get it right? Because that is all what you are saying! So a Black run Police Department is mistreating its own Negroe citizens!!!!!!

Yaaaa ...Right!

Just like the White Europeans left Detroit, it is time for White Europeans to leave Chicago, Washington D. C., New York and Baltimore and Atlanta. Ain't nothing good to come out of it. Wait for the Negroes in Baltimore to stick it to the White European SJWs and rape a few White SJW Females in the coming riots while they burn Baltimore down.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 9:24 AM  

I'm with George. You need a "rough" police force.

No "we" don't. If you and George live in a large city and need a thuggish police force to compete with your thuggish criminal class because you don't know what else to do with them, I guess that's your business. But out here in the parts of the country that are still civilized, we don't want or need either one. We don't want your thugs, and we don't need your feds militarizing our cops so they're handing out parking tickets armed to the teeth and looking for some excuse to use it.

Anonymous The other robot May 02, 2015 9:28 AM  

Some people thing the charges are the Duke Lacrosse case all over again

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 9:31 AM  

Cail, you need to be more sophisticated. Amongst your own and out in the country with no thugs one doesn't need a rough police force. And there isn't one. In an urban area dealing with a Thug culture, one needs it.

----------------

At Isteve.com Unz Review, a commentator left this:
38.unit472
says:

May 2, 2015 at 4:10 am GMT • 300 Words

I think the story behind this story is that Freddie Gray was trying to set up a phony lawsuit against the police. He and his sister had already sued a landlord for ‘lead poisoning’ and the insurance company had settled with them. Freddie had probably burned his way through his settlement and was looking for another scam. Baltimore had a new Mayor and States Attorney who had made no secret of their anti-police pro criminal stance so Freddie may have been better informed and sharper than your average ex-con. He knew he only had to provoke the police to arrest him and the new SA wouldn’t prosecute him on some minor charge so he makes eye contact with the bicycle cops and takes off running. They naturally pursue him and ,as comedian Chris Rock has explained, if the police have to come get you they are bringing an ass kicking with them so Freddie starts hollering about needing medical attention and goes limp as he is dragged to the paddy wagon. He isn’t paralyzed though and steps up into the Paddy Wagon but continues his disruptive behavior in it. They check on him and cuff his legs. At some point Freddie seeking to self inflict some real injury to himself stands up in the van and as the van lurches forward he loses his balance and is rammed into the door of the van head first. He gets the injury he was trying to self inflict but it is a bit more serious than he bargained for.


Here is another possiblity. We don't know what is going on. We are all jumping the guns. You have to wait for the trial and for evidence to be presented. Unlike the State Attorney Marilyn Mosby who thinks that we just charge everything and it will all stick. This is a Stalinist Show Trial.

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 9:35 AM  

You get 2 choices, Cal.

1. Rough cops localized to vibrant inner cities

2. Rough cops nationalized to all the USA

Libertarians like Vox Day already made their choice for option #2. "Fuck the (local) police" they said. What is YOUR choice, Cal?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey May 02, 2015 9:42 AM  

I'm standing with the cops on this one.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown May 02, 2015 9:44 AM  

$10 says Lt Rice and Sgt White are the first to be cleared of all charges. Sergeants don't typically make a lot of arrests and certainly don't fasten seatbelts. I'd be very surprised if Lt Rice was even on the scene. They're being stingy with the facts, so who really knows at this point? But the fact that they've charged the entire chain of command smacks of a witch hunt.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:47 AM  

"At some point Freddie seeking to self inflict some real injury to himself stands up in the van and as the van lurches forward he loses his balance and is rammed into the door of the van head first."

A man who is handcuffed behind his back and who has his feet shackled just happens to stand up?

What other fairy tales do you believe?

"1. Rough cops localized to vibrant inner cities

2. Rough cops nationalized to all the USA"

Cops are like a virus. Once you allow them to breed in one area they spread to all other areas. The only way to deal with cops is to have them very strictly controlled and as powerless as you can make them.


Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:49 AM  

Lt Rice was the government employee who started the whole mess. His chasing of the citizen with no reasonable suspicion was the first mistake. Breaking eye contact and avoiding a group of armed thugs is not suspicious, it is common sense.

Rice also spent time in a mental hospital and had his guns taken from him by a Maryland sheriff's department. He should not have been roaming the streets armed and carrying the power of the state.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 9:49 AM  

If anyone knows the history of policing in America, Irish cops used to go all billy club on their own. It was a war in Boston, New York and Philidephia. The Old West was built on Rough Justice. Watch history channel on cowboys. America was built on rough justice when revolutionaries tarred and feathered Tories and terrorized their families.

Thanks to "The Other Robot" for posting that link. The cop there speaking said:

“these cops are political prisoners,” offered up as human sacrifices, thrown like red meat to an angry mob”

This is George Zimmerman/Travyon Martin all over again. We don't know what happened here. Not even the State Attorney Marilyn Mosby knows what happened!!! This is important. She does NOT know how he was killed. In every case of murder, one knows what event caused death. Here, they have a broken spine----but nobody but nobody knows how this occured. How can anyone press charges against another if we don't know how the crime was committed! So he wasn't buckled in. Well, how does that create a broken spine? Who knows. How does this Negress expect to win in court when she doesn't even know.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 9:53 AM  

"If anyone knows the history of policing in America, Irish cops used to go all billy club on their own. It was a war in Boston, New York and Philidephia. "

The Irish are another group that should have never been allowed to come to the United States.

Anonymous The other robot May 02, 2015 9:54 AM  

I think the story behind this story is that Freddie Gray was trying to set up a phony lawsuit against the police. He and his sister had already sued a landlord for ‘lead poisoning’ and the insurance company had settled with them. Freddie had probably burned his way through his settlement and was looking for another scam.

I don't think they were smart enough for that. Did you see that article by La Griffe Du Lion that claimed that the average black IQ in inner-city Baltimore was 76?

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 9:55 AM  

" The only way to deal with cops is to have them very strictly controlled" <--- via Nationalized police, right Chris? fucking libtard

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 02, 2015 9:57 AM  

The people on trial will be US, day after day endless repetitive propaganda aimed at us. What happened exactly 32 minutes of Grays death ride is purely tertiary his case is the mosquito carrying the social malaria

Blogger Josh May 02, 2015 10:01 AM  

The Old West was built on Rough Justice. Watch history channel on cowboys.

Because history channel has to be the worst appeal to authority since because bachelor's degree.

Anonymous The other robot May 02, 2015 10:03 AM  

The President has diverse and divergent views about the number of fires in Baltimore.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 10:11 AM  

" The only way to deal with cops is to have them very strictly controlled" <--- via Nationalized police, right Chris? fucking libtard"

No, because the larger an organization gets the less control you have over it. Disarm the cops. Enforce the entire Bill of Rights, as written.
Remove all immunity for government employees.

Pretty easy, right you statist cop fluffer?

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 10:15 AM  

Cail, you need to be more sophisticated. Amongst your own and out in the country with no thugs one doesn't need a rough police force. And there isn't one. In an urban area dealing with a Thug culture, one needs it.

One might wonder if we should have large cities at all, if a police state is the only way to make them livable.

But you repeated what I just said, except that we ARE getting an over-the-top police force "out here" in recent years, thanks to federal programs, training, and procedures filtering out from the cities. Our crime consists mostly of high school vandalism, car stereo theft, domestic violence calls, and the occasional bar fight; but our cops now have SWAT teams, drug-sniffing dogs, armored cars, metal detectors around public buildings, and anti-terrorism training. With all those toys, they're bound to find opportunities to use them. They're law enforcement now instead of peace officers, and we needed none of that.

What is YOUR choice, Cal?

I think I'll choose to ignore people who value snark more than spelling.

By the way, I'm not "standing with" anyone. Distrusting the cops doesn't require that I side with the criminals. Many of these cases involve corrupt or sloppy cops abusing their authority in dealing with scumbag criminals, with both sides coddled by corrupt leftist politicians. There are no good guys here. Stuff them all in one gunnysack and throw it in the river as far as I'm concerned.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 02, 2015 10:20 AM  

" The Old West was built on Rough Justice."

Actually, no.

Better read real history rather than watch westerns.

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 10:32 AM  

" Disarm the cops." <-- and WHOM will do this disarming, Chris? That's right, Obama's National Police... fucking libtard.

Anonymous paradox May 02, 2015 10:38 AM  

W.LindsayWheeler

I'm with George. You need a "rough" police force.


Bullshit, Wheeler! Blue is a more dangerous ethnicity than Black is to White. Uppity rioting Blacks are for the most part contained in their Yankee hellholes. Uppity Blues are everywhere and have carte blanche power to kill Whites. What we need are less cops, more armed citizens, laws that allow armed citizens to do their job, and a side of Nathan Bedford Forrest vigilantism. Laws that allow citizens to shoot looters on sight, would be a step in the right direction.

Anonymous Roundtine May 02, 2015 10:43 AM  

Perfect set up for riots. The rioters have already said if the cops are let off, the violence will pale in comparison to what just happened.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma May 02, 2015 11:14 AM  

There are two sides to this. The affirmative action lawyer bringing the charges is angling to ingratiate herself with her community and its leaders. You should have heard her speech when she announced the charges. Something about, "I hear those of you who say, 'No justice, no peace.' I will bring you justice." So, she's going on a witch hunt for whitey.

Blogger Henry Smith May 02, 2015 11:20 AM  

This is a media-driven lynch-mob, with most of the players on both sides being black. I say withhold judgment pending further information. But Vox is right: the frenzy may have a salutary effect if it tempers routine mistreatment of citizens by police.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 11:21 AM  

I'm with Mantraman:
The people on trial will be US, day after day endless repetitive propaganda aimed at us. What happened exactly 32 minutes of Grays death ride is purely tertiary his case is the mosquito carrying the social malaria

From Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, America, WASP America is on trial. It is about prosecuting those "evilish WASPISH Guys that built this place that we, the vibrants, have enjoyed so much. Because you know, back in our home countries, we'd be starvin' and livin' in a Third World Shit Hole with a ton more of corruption and violent police.

This case is about fundamentally changing America and attacking the so-called "White priviledge" and White America even though three of the perps are Negroes.

Maybe those who complain about the police---go live in Mexico. They have an above board Policing there!!! No abuse in Mexico!!

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 02, 2015 11:43 AM  

"Yep. For all we hear about the 'nickel ride' there was another perp in the paddy wagon and he was unharmed."

I can climb up or down a rock face that would kill someone drunk or high on bad stuff.

"toxicology test will show that Freddie was tripping balls on heroin "

Every so often bad batches of heroin go around that leave people dead with the needles still in their arms.

"Yea woman prosecutor who's husband is up for re-election on the city council. "

Not to mention the c#nt let over 100 arrested looters go free in the name of SJW . http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/baltimore-may-release-arrested-rioters-meet-legal-requirements-n350626

His chasing of the citizen with no reasonable suspicion Have you seen they arrest record for the druggy?
Every cop in his area probably knows him by name. Lots of crooks try to fake injuries, prisoners are allowed to sue for free.

"Freddie had probably burned his way through his settlement and was looking for another scam. I don't think they were smart enough for that."

In CA there social security disability factories that take low IQ mestizos and give them fake medical evidence to commit fraud. The fact that Freddie was stupid enough to turn a $120K+ structured settlement over for only $18K lump sum makes the fraud with crooked lawyer seem more plausible.

Just like the BITCHES wanted in Ferguson we should demand • A special prosecutor• Fire the mayor• Fire the Police Chief & Put the DOJ in charge of the local police department

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 11:45 AM  

The people on trial will be US, day after day endless repetitive propaganda aimed at us.

Right. The unstated narrative will be, "Even with black cops and black suspects, we get brutality and injustice, therefore America must be even more racist and unfair than we realized, so much so that it even corrupts situations where whites aren't directly involved. It's even more insidious than we thought, so we need even more of a national orgy of penance about it and even more reparations to all blacks who are (by definition) harmed by it."

Blogger Sgt Polite May 02, 2015 11:48 AM  

Chris Mallory- I work in a jail and I assure you, being shackled at the feet and cuffed behind the back you can still stand, and create quite a bit of trouble (headbutts, biting, etc). Also, criminals lie, about everything. If I had a dollar for everytime an inmate told me they were dying and I'd be sued I'd be retired now.

Anonymous Dan in Tx (I dindu nuffin) May 02, 2015 11:49 AM  

What you have here really is a bad choice of pick your poison. I hate, HATE how the police have become increasingly militarized in the U.S.. However what a lot of people are coming to realize, such as Wheeler is basically stating in his comments, is that the race war is going live. Blacks always side with their own, no matter what. Whites, though perhaps not liking the idea of the cops being over aggressive nonetheless are seeing this more and more as "us vs them" (which it is) and attacking the cops as shooting at our own side. Like I said, it's not a good choice to make but reality is what it is. After reading multiple stories of rape, murder and knock out games from blacks how many tears should I shed over a dead black criminal? Not many.

Blogger darkdoc May 02, 2015 12:09 PM  

I'm suspicious the police bear a lot of resposibility for what happened.

But i'm pretty sure that we are NOT being told what is really happening.

The day before we hear that there is little knowledge of what happened to the prisoner while in custody (again, probably a lie).

But, then Sharpton shows up, has a little session with the prosecutors and mayor, promises are delivered from the new Attorney General (and probably POTUS) and suddenly, everything has changed. We know everything, we can charge police, "Alleluia I AM SAVED" - well at least the mayor is saved.

This is all WAY too convenient, suspicious as hell.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 02, 2015 12:14 PM  

I really don't see how the arresting officers are culpable for what the driver potentially did

Perhaps because they failed to buckle his seatbelt? If he was belted into his seat, he couldn't have stood up, or been flung around the inside of the van during the ride. Theory is, he broke his neck when the van took a sharp turn and flung him against the other wall.

I'm with George. You need a "rough" police force.

Fucking idiocy. We do not need a rough police force. What we need is a competent police force that can take suspects into custody as peacefuly as possible, a competent court system that gives the accused a fair trail, and an incarceration system that locks up predatory criminals.

If we're not going to have all three, then we should disband our entire justice system and leave it up to vigilantes. Insisting we need "rough cops" is what someone unwilling to defend themselves would say.

Anonymous johnc May 02, 2015 12:18 PM  

What we need are less cops, more armed citizens, laws that allow armed citizens to do their job, and a side of Nathan Bedford Forrest vigilantism. Laws that allow citizens to shoot looters on sight, would be a step in the right direction.

George Zimmerman had the law on his side and, let's be honest, by the skin of our teeth we came out of that one without national riots. Though there were a lot of instances of isolated payback.

Without the police, armed citizens would need to step in to maintain order. But that would be far bloodier and with a lot more consequent riots.

Anonymous liljoe May 02, 2015 12:24 PM  

George,
what criminal class? violent crime is down year over since 1992. average citizen is more likely to be beaten or shot by a policeman than a member of your "criminal class". police can seize your property at will without due process or even charge you w a crime. excuse me if I refuse to thank them for their service,

Anonymous MendoScot May 02, 2015 12:27 PM  

Quoth paradox:

Blue is a more dangerous ethnicity than Black is to White

Blootiful! I am so going to steal that, paradox.

OT: That popping sound you heard was Dick Dawk's head exploding...

British judges rule God exists.

Anonymous FP May 02, 2015 12:30 PM  

George: "I live in NYC and I take the subways everyday. The black criminal underclass here is waiting to explode - and I remember what it was like in the 90s when they had a sense of impunity. It was terrible. These people need to be AFRAID or they will go wild."

I've grown to hate NYC moderates, republicans etc. more than "libtards" these days. When that fed judge took away stop and frisk (rightly so) a ton of your types wringed your hands and cried about how it was a necessary evil. I watched The Five (idiots) on Fox news defend it because they all live/work in NYC and know what will happen. Yeah I get why you think that and it makes sense.

Yet, did any of you advocate getting rid of your insane gun laws in New York state/city? Ones that have been around for 100 years? You know, the Sullivan act? Nah, you have no balls to do so because you've let the state protect you for too long and you live among idiot libtards. Let people arm themselves and go Bernie Goetz style. After awhile, the thugs will get the point, if not they will keep dying in greater numbers.

I'd let those big cities have big brutal police forces if I didn't have to listen to their so called expertise as it drifts out to the rest of the nation, telling everyone how to do it their way, because "it works here in NEW YAWK" and "obviously everything is awesome in NYC, you freakin hayseed hicks". Then I have to hear about how gay marriage should be the law of the land because of equality yet New York can't follow the Constitution on arms or even tolerate other states' laws on them. Its all those pro gun states' fault that guns get into NYC. Maybe what is needed is a good cleansing fire George.

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 12:37 PM  

" I hate, HATE how the police have become increasingly militarized in the U.S."

I call bullshit. Getting tossed into the back of paddy-wagon is a police tactic at least 50 years old. NOTHING to do with militarized police.

"Fucking idiocy. We do not need a rough police force. What we need is a competent police force "

Why is roughness not competence? But maybe you can become a police officer and show us how your SWPL good intentions will somehow magically civilize the Dindus into libertopia?

Anonymous The other robot May 02, 2015 12:39 PM  

Also, criminals lie, about everything.

and

SJWs always lie

I think I see an equivalence here.

Anonymous ZhukovG May 02, 2015 12:44 PM  

As a former cop, I can assure you. The police are a criminal class.

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 12:50 PM  

50 years ago, Baltimore cops used to carry a long stick called an Espantoon. It was used to beat the shit out of people. Look up how the Baltimore riots of 1968 were quelled. It is a SWPL myth that local police today are "more violent." I refuse to buy it, especially as justification for national social engineering.

Anonymous Dan in Tx May 02, 2015 1:00 PM  

RR: "I call bullshit. Getting tossed into the back of paddy-wagon is a police tactic at least 50 years old. NOTHING to do with militarized police."

Dude, even small town PD's have Armored Personnel Carriers. The fact that the police or more militarized isn't even debatable.

Anonymous paradox May 02, 2015 1:02 PM  

johnc

Without the police, armed citizens would need to step in to maintain order. But that would be far bloodier and with a lot more consequent riots.



Ninja please! Citizens can maintain order far better than Blue ninjas. The ninjas always exacerbate things.

Blogger ajw308 May 02, 2015 1:03 PM  

I think they should call the national police force the "Secret State Police". It has a certain ring to it.
Sestapo? The standard has been set for a national secret police forces name. I don't know if that contraction has the panache that meets the standard.

Blogger Ghost May 02, 2015 1:05 PM  

"Why is roughness not competence?"

You mean, aside from the evidence of their massive incompetence? Rough can be competent (like most branches of the military), but competence should always be the first standard to reach. Otherwise, you end up with cops arresting people for legal activities like open carrying or carrying a pocket knife. We need a competent police force.

As far as need, look at most other civilized countries and ask if we "need" a rough police force. The evidence says we don't.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 1:06 PM  

ZhukovG May 02, 2015 12:44 PM As a former cop, I can assure you. The police are a criminal class.

Is that Russia? I would believe it.

Blogger grendel May 02, 2015 1:17 PM  

There will be no good effects of this case. If it gets bad enough that the pigs throw in the towel on nightsticking the colored folk, they'll just spend more time parked on the interstate writing tickets.

We need nationwide constitutional carry, and a revamp of the court system such that if you have to shoot a dindu for something you can drag their whole arrest record into the case and vice versa, so the jury has an idea which of you was the dirtbag.

Anonymous Raw Paw!! May 02, 2015 1:21 PM  

"As far as need, look at most other civilized countries and ask if we "need" a rough police force. "

These"civilized" nations have national police forces. Which is perhaps your point.

"Dude, even small town PD's have Armored Personnel Carriers. "

Freddie died in an APC or MRAP?

Blogger Ghost May 02, 2015 1:48 PM  

"Which is perhaps your point."

If you aren't a leftist, you should stop acting like one. I advocated no such thing. Because if that's the game you're after, we can play it all day. Maybe it's your point that police officers should be able to wantonly inflict extra judicial punishment on the citizenry to their hearts content. Perhaps you believe that a rough police force needs the leniency to rape hookers, and perhaps that's your point. You said nothing about it, but obviously...

Anonymous DavidKathome May 02, 2015 1:51 PM  

For those who think a rough police force is necessary, take a look at the private security firms replacing police in Detroit in some of the best and worst areas. They are doing what police used to do back when they were called peace officers. Emphasis on keeping the community safe and protected, not on law enforcement.

Blogger Poor Guy May 02, 2015 2:11 PM  

What is really galling is how the violent rioters walked, the gangs were praised and city officials even apologized for the "Thug" comments. Gangs are probably responsible for half the crime in the city!

Blogger Poor Guy May 02, 2015 2:11 PM  

I also oppose most house raids, which are almost always totally unnecessary

Anonymous Dan in Tx May 02, 2015 2:13 PM  

RR: "Freddie died in an APC or MRAP?"

Now your just being an aspie. Ok, I'll go real slow for you:

"I hate, HATE how the police have become increasingly militarized in the U.S.. " Now, you will note that I said, "in the U.S.", not, "in this particular case in Baltimore." As you can tell, from this statement, I was speaking of police militarism in general. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding on your part.

Blogger Poor Guy May 02, 2015 2:17 PM  

Now it might be that the guy on TV claiming to be other guy in the van is a fraud. He appears to be the lover of one of Mosby's deputies. If this is true, the prosecutor and her staff need to be removed from their positions.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/02/explosive-the-curious-case-of-freddie-grays-paddy-wagon-companion-baltimore-prosecutor-marilyn-mosby-manipulating-the-media/comment-page-2/#comment-1407241

Blogger Poor Guy May 02, 2015 2:42 PM  

Mosby is tearing apart the prosecutors office and replacing them with SJW's...

http://goodbyeandthankyoubcsao.blogspot.com/2015/01/my-open-goodbye-letter-to-states.html

Anonymous redsash May 02, 2015 2:50 PM  

Maryland state police have somehow obtained the names of those Florida residents who have concealed carry permits, and guess what, many a Floridian have found themselves pulled off to the side of the road and asked if they minded having their cars searched. Thugs all. Maryland's blacks, police, and citizens. No wonder the Colts left for Indy.

Thirteen percent of the population and 60% of the crime. Surely we are getting close to the point where reparations and repatriation is cost effective. Those whites who miss the singing dancing and running please feel free to hit the exits also.

Less I be accused of being un-Christian perhaps exceptions could be made for the elderly and the infertile.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2015 2:52 PM  

For God's sake--isn't there some way for both sides of this mess to lose?

Blogger rumpole5 May 02, 2015 2:59 PM  

If the prosecutor can get one of the officers to flip, and tell the truth, (the only way that testimony can hold up on cross exam is if the witness is testifying from actual recollection) then she may get a conviction. The fact that she has only been in office three months is a plus, because she has not had time to totally purge her office along SJW lines. There might still be an older trial prosecutor in the office, dating from merit based days, and nearing a state pension, who can actually try a case. Another good item is the race of the elected prosecutor. Even if she screws up it is not because of racism obviously. So - - get out the popcorn!

Blogger subject by design May 02, 2015 3:06 PM  

If a non-cop did this, it would kidnapping. The cops had no probable cause. This guy did not commit a crime. We must not tolerate one set of laws for the cops and another set for the People. Whatever happens after an illegal arrest should be dealt with severely. It is the only way to deter illegal arrests.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 02, 2015 3:08 PM  

Why is roughness not competence?

Because you can't read? The police need to take suspect into custody as peacefully as possible. Roughing them up doesn't qualify.

Why do you think the police need to rough people up?

Blogger Sgt Polite May 02, 2015 3:10 PM  

I think a fair number of you ragging on the police would be shocked if you had to walk their beat and deal with today's criminals. That said, there are bad cops and they are hard to fire. If you want REAL CHANGE end Public Sector Unions. Unions protect the lazy and bad apples.

Blogger Poor Guy May 02, 2015 3:20 PM  

"If the prosecutor can get one of the officers to flip, and tell the truth".. the prosecutor is a NoJusticeNoPeace radical. The cops could very well be telling the truth, it won't matter to Mosby. The Mosby lied in front of the whole world when she said the knife was not illegal (spring-assisted knives ARE illegal in Maryland), plus there was a warrant for Frddies arrest.

Now it seems that Mosby created a fake "other van passenger" for the TV cameras.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 3:30 PM  

George: "I live in NYC and I take the subways everyday."

So because you choose to live in the jungle, you think everyone else should be required to dress in mosquito netting and get regular shots in case of infection or bites. Brilliant.

Why the rest of us haven't built a wall around you all yet, I have no idea.

Blogger rumpole5 May 02, 2015 3:49 PM  

@ Poor Guy.

The law imposes special duties of care on LEOs who have someone restrained and in custody. I don't know what happened in that van, but if the impact of the bolt on the inside of the van did cause the death, as the Medical Examiner is reported to have concluded, then the death happened after the arrest and restraint, in a setting presumably under control of several officers who were present, unrestrained, and able to act.
Those circumstances appear really, really suspicious to me. It is also reported that five of the six officers have given statements. That suggests a possible treasure trove of reliable evidence, especially if two or more of the interviews match the physical evidence. I just hope that the new cutie state's attorney has retained at least one old grizzled Boomer prosecutor who knows how to actually prosecute a case.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 02, 2015 3:54 PM  

If you want REAL CHANGE end Public Sector Unions. Unions protect the lazy and bad apples.

I don't disagree, but ah, who votes for the leadership of these rotten unions? Seems that if the good apples really didn't want the bad apples around, they'd stop voting for union leadership that protected the bad apples.

Anonymous clk May 02, 2015 4:14 PM  

I doubt the police will be able to get a fair trial... its unlikely that any of thecriminal charges stick ..this will just turn out to be another payoff in civil court...

Anonymous takin' a look May 02, 2015 4:16 PM  

Well, the nose knows....

Project Interchange

Oh.....myyyy, I'll be hornswaggled.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 4:58 PM  

The law imposes special duties of care on LEOs who have someone restrained and in custody.

Yes. I'm not that old, but I seem to remember a time when cops were held to a higher standard than the general populace. Now we're being told that we should look the other way and let them do what they like because their jobs are sooooo hard.

That's not how it works. If people really think cops should be allowed to beat confessions out of perps and shoot unarmed suspects who flee, then they should get out there and stump for changing the law to allow that. See how that flies in the next election cycle.

Cops, more than anyone except lawmakers, must be held to the letter of the law, because they have the power to do so much damage if they aren't. Change the law if you don't like it; don't say they should get to ignore it.

And I'm not talking about this case, because we don't know what happened here yet and may never know. I'm talking about a general trend that's taken place in my lifetime.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 5:31 PM  

I find this "need for one officer to flip on others" interesting because usually a conspiracy requires prior planning. This event was spur of the moment with the arresting officers having no idea of who they were going to run into and handing off an individual into another's charge.

"Flipping"? Not in the case. There is no collusion. You've got an higher echelon officer supervising the loading of the arresstee and the everyone goes their own way. I very much doubt any "flipping" will occur because there is nothing there to flip on. They just arrested a man who ran and knowing his background, chalked up his ranting as a con game. Sorry if it turned out tragic---con men usually get conned in the end and I am thinking this is the case here.

Blogger rumpole5 May 02, 2015 6:25 PM  

I apologize. " Flipping"- Is a term of art that we used, at least when I was a prosecutor, to refer to calling one co-defendant to testify against another. It is a valuable tool, but fraught with potential problems. The advantage is that you can obtain detailed admissible evidence that might not otherwise be available. The problem, of course is that a co-defendant has a motive to lie or embellish, and he might also have a change of heart and try to exonerate the co-defendant. In worst possibility is that one can offer leniency to a more guilty perpetrator. A possibility that a prosecutor loses sleep over. In this case, the reported facts suggest that the injury was not intentional, so I doubt that there was any " conspiracy ", at least until the "oh crap!" moment when the officers realized that the poor fellow was in trouble. If they made some agreement then, I doubt that it held, because at least some of them did not approve of whatever action led to the injury and just went along with it. In the hands of an experienced trial practioner justice might be served in this case.

Blogger Robert What? May 02, 2015 6:32 PM  

@George

The reason New Yorkers live in fear is that responsible, law abiding citizens have been effectively disarmed. Otherwise you wouldn't have to hope the police show up to save you from the "vibrants", which, incidentally, they are under no legal obligation to.

Blogger subject by design May 02, 2015 6:34 PM  

@rumpole5 - and this is another reason why I have come to have so much disdain for prosecutors. Instead of getting actual evidence that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that the charges are just, prosecutors rely on shifting and unreliable testimony of snitches and others out to cover their own behinds. All to get a conviction. So men can be held in cages like animals. Justice should be their goal, not convictions. Sometimes the guilty go free, but that is better than corrupting the process to get convictions.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 6:43 PM  

" Disarm the cops." <-- and WHOM will do this disarming, Chris? That's right, Obama's National Police... fucking libtard."

Armed citizens would be more than able, cop fluffer.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 6:45 PM  

"Not to mention the c#nt let over 100 arrested looters go free in the name of SJW . http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/baltimore-may-release-arrested-rioters-meet-legal-requirements-n350626"

When did Habeas Corpus become a SJW cause?

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 6:46 PM  

"Also, criminals lie, about everything. "

So do government employees. Especially those so lacking in character that they voluntarily put themselves in jail. A screw isn't much better than a con.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 02, 2015 6:54 PM  

"What is really galling is how the violent rioters walked,"

They didn't have to walk. All the government had to do is bring them before a judge and produce charges. If the government fails to do this, walking is the correct option.


"This event was spur of the moment with the arresting officers having no idea of who they were going to run into and handing off an individual into another's charge. "

The cops having a huddle and deciding that this citizen needed a "rough ride" is conspiracy. You think they didn't talk about it before the van drove off? You are naive if you don't.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 7:01 PM  

On "Rough Justice", "Rough Policing".

Case in point. The Vietnam War/American-Philopino War. The Vietnam War changed warfare for Americans. We were used to WWI, WWII and Korea. The Vietnam War was much different. Here one was fighting a guerrilla war that followed no rules. The atrocties visited upon the American Soldier changed him--brutalized him. So, in turn, Americans did unto the Viet Cong the same thing. In the American-Philoppino War the same thing. Brutality is matched by Brutality. You have to met Force with Force. What you meet---you must meet.

In the Con World of Ghetto Thug Culture you meet Brutality. Hip Hop/Rap are Brutal types of music; it is then transferred spiritually. Plus, countless years of Political Correctness which teaches Aggravation. Then, the Media pick this up and plays it for all it gots. Political Correctness is always throwing past crimes into the hapless Victims and actually teaches revenge. This milieu feeds upon people's minds. On top of this Americanism is basically Anarchism (all this talk of liberty and Freedom) which teaches people to naturally rebel, to lash out at restrictions.

What we have then is a boiling cauldron of hate and discontent. This is not how one builds a society or breeds social cohesion. It is a recipe for disaster. This is all filtered down into the lower classes and the lower criminal element within. It is a circularity, a feedback loop. It eats upon itself. Police are dealing with violent drug gangs, violent gangs and vicisous barbarians. Face it, we have barbarians and we are creating barbarians and the police are then socially conditioned in brutality because they are dealing with brutality.

Furthermore the lower classes are the shock troops for overturning "The System". It is about constant need for annihilation. They are the leverage because they can destroy things. It is about unleashing them upon "The System" for the continued Marxization of America. They are useful idiots.

The Business man requires peace and order in order to conduct his business. Just like in the case of Eric Garner, the police are used to clean the streets. Of ones like Eric Garner selling black market cigarrettes that undercut the Business man who has to pay property taxes and Freddie Gray who is doing drug trades on the street that turn the streets dirty, impossible for people going to school or Businessman to conduct business. The Police are being used to create clean cities. You have to use brutality against brutality. Eric Garner and Freddie Gray and Michael Brown ALL refused to comply. At that point, force, brutality must ensue.

That is just the nature of that which is.

I mean look at the violence by the Left and the Negroes in Baltimore. Violence is used unsparingly in Baltimore.

Anonymous rubberducky May 02, 2015 8:01 PM  

I gotta part ways with you on this score, Vox. I'm a American citizen, therefore I'm a victim of the police. True. Those assholes on the police force come out here and enforce policy as they have ordered. but they are simply too dumb and weak to realize that their criminal missions are unjust. They are robots, by and large, who just follow orders.

In Baltimore, we had a riot sparked by one Freddie Gray, who was a heroin dealer well known to the police that was found plying his trade in Baltimore's infamous Druid Hill drug market one Sunday morning. Somehow he wound up dead on arrival when they brought him in, and that very much is a point of concern.

But, if you as a drug dealer go down to Druid Hill and come back in a casket, you can't complain. And you can't blame the police, either, because almost all of the very, very numerous homicides at Druid Hill happen by the gang bangers. The police are not in the business of killing the drug traders on Druid Hill. Demonstrably.

And if some heroin dealer like Freddie Gray heads to Druid Hill, knowing the risks, and comes home in a casket, he's not a source of sympathy. Death is the wage of sin. Freddie Gray would be alive today if he did not engage in criminal activity. He was not randomly taken down by the Baltimore police. Mr. Gray was a known heroin dealer in Druid Hill, one of the most violent, blighted, crime-ridden, and dangerous neighborhoods on America's east coast. More Baltimoreans have died there than in America's overseas wars.

The details about what happened to Mr. Gray are unknown to me, and it is very troubling that he died in police custody. The police do have to answer to that.

But I'm not going to shed a tear for a heroin dealer who got in trouble with police plying his trade, setting off an insane riot that trashed an American jewel (Baltimore), leading to calls that America's police force now needs to be nationalized.

No. Feddie Gray was heroin dealer and those who rioted are thugs. The police are not the ones who failed to defend the populace, they are not the ones here who put aside the notion of law and order and winged it.

No, that was the mayor of Baltimore. Not the police.

Anonymous George May 02, 2015 8:02 PM  

Great comment Wheeler.

I recently entered a new business where my old behaviors simply weren't adaptive. In my old line of work, people were polite, reasonable, respectful, and I brought these behaviors along with me. I figured you treat people with respect - even if there are disagreements and financial competition - they'll do the same. That's how it worked in the past for me. After all, we're all adults here, right? Well, wrong. I was suddenly in an environment where normal business disputes were the subject of angry, rage filled outbursts, where gamesmanship and brinkmanship, fueled by rage and occasional threats of violence, were the norm. So I adapted. I stopped being nice and became brutal. Brutality is met by brutality. That's how it is. But people who haven't experienced what I did simply wouldn't understand - especially since my business seems like it "shouldn't" be subject to these kinds of behaviors. My new work reality actually made me think a lot about how people change based on the realities they confront, and how outsiders rarely "undestand". And made me understand cops more.

What's emerging from most of the ant-rough comments is that these people don't live in big cities with an underclass so don't understand the necessity for police brutality. That's fair enough, police in small quite nice towns shouldn't be rough (but then are they?).

But if you live on a big city with a large thuggish underclass around every day, all the time, you'll have a different idea. NYC is pretty safe these days, but that's because police have been brutal. But even today, the body language, behavior, and mannerisms of the huge thuggish underclass - which is EVERYWHERE, in the trains and streets, everyday - is visibly anarchic and aggressive. It rarely spills over into actual violence, but there is an air of violence and aggression, of lack of inhibition waiting to explode, of vaguely threatening behavior and demeanor. Its OK to deal with at this level - but any worse, and no.

And the police are selectively brutal, which is fine by me. Its not like they're terrorizing the entire population. Not at all. But a lot of these thugs simply aren't intimidated by a nice, polite police officer who will gently escort them into the van and politely interview them at the station house where they spend a few days or hours before seeing the judge. Not even by a few days in jail. The experience needs to be as scary and unpleasant as possible. Low level aggression often won't fetch a heavy sentence - the judge might even just fine you and dismiss you. But if the entire process until you see the judge is scary, unpleasant, and you know very well that you might be treated violently before, that's a deterrent.

Now if police were doing this to ordinary people I'd be against it. But they're mostly doing it to people who are OBVIOUSLY career trouble makers. Everyone knows what kind of person you are by how you act and present yourself.



Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 8:20 PM  

I just learned that Freddie Gray was ON PROBATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cries of illegal arrest---is absolutely ludicrious. When you are on probation, you must immediately obey any officer of the court. When Freddie started running from the law, it was grounds for his arrest.

Second, he was high on marijuanna and also had heroin in his system. What the Baltimore cop said on the Hannity Show was that usually if you are selling heroin on the street and the cops come, instead of throwing it away which might be picked up for evidence, you swallow it.

Him being on probation, being nabbed with a knife, running from officers, and possibly selling drugs aka Eric Garner, he probably pulled a con of not going back to jail. High on both Heroin he swallowed and marijuana, I could envision him beating his head uncontrollably on the van walls in order to protest and get away or have an excuse to go to the hospital instead of booking. His drug addled brain did not control his movements and he went to far and hurt himself.

Anyway, he was an habitual criminal, violent and not worth the trouble, incapable of rehabilitation. It is better that he died. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. If you live a life of crime, you deserve to die from crime.

Anonymous liljoe May 02, 2015 8:21 PM  

But they're mostly doing it to people who are OBVIOUSLY career trouble makers. Everyone knows what kind of person you are by how you act and present yourself.

exactly. unfortunately the Constitution provides for due process, so strictly speaking cops can't go around beating apprehending shooting non-cops because they don't look right.

Anonymous George May 02, 2015 8:34 PM  

Strictly speaking they can't, but if we are to live civilized lives they have to, and I'm glad they do. Strictly speaking.

If you're the "wrong" kind of person - the kind that makes civilized life impossible for the rest - you better except a whole load of brutality to come your way.

That's the way things work, and I'm glad enough people get it despite the rules and regulations. Rules have to strike a balance and compromise, but they aren't always effective at dealing with realities. Latitude and judgement are key. Simply being taken in for a few hours might be deterrent enough for nice people. But the reality is for many it simply isn't. Yet you can't write rules about how to differently treat prisoners. But you can just do it that way. Rules are necessary but can't cope with the messy realities of life.

Anonymous rubberducky May 02, 2015 8:36 PM  

Freddie Gray was no Eagle Scout, he was a heroin dealer. But being a heroin dealer does not justify showing up dead with a broken neck at the police station. The man died in police custody, and citizens are rightly motivated to ask why and to ask how that happened.

Yet, citizens should understand that Mr. Gray was a heroin dealer picked up (again) in vey seedy circumstances. Yes, he can't defend himself anymore, he's dead. But then again death and misery are part-in-parcel to you, your family, and your neighborhood once you join the heroin trade.

Heroin's a death ticket that brings death and ruin to everybody around including innocent bystanders.


Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 02, 2015 9:41 PM  

I found a comment that parallels my take on the situation. Duramater at Legal Insurrection writes: Finally, the violent thrashing of the subject within the prisoner compartment reported by the other prisoner in the van, may have been a continuation of Grays willful resistance BUT could also have been a drug induced grand mal seizure. The ferocious force and diminished level of consciousness associated with this scenario is more than sufficient to propel him into unyielding metal appliances and explain devastating neuro-trauma. None of the officers involved in his detention, arrest or transport could possibly predict or intervene in this instance.

This is another possible scenario. Either he was hitting his head against the walls of the van in protest or having a gran mal seizure that caused him to hit his head violently. The man had probably overdosed on heroin or close to it.

I don't believe the officers had anything to do with his death.

Third scenario, he already had a hidden spinal fracture, there is rumor that he underwent neck surgery a week before this incident.

Or fourth scenario, his bones were brittle. There was a case of a father being charged with child abuse and the child died. Well, in a retrial of the case, the defense brought forward that the child suffered from a genetic disorder that made his bones brittle. Had nothing to do with the father. The father was exonerated.

There are so many possiblities that doesn't require police brutality.

What this means is that at the end of the day, my prediction, is that these officers will be acquitted and all hell will break lose in Baltimore.

America is finished. It's gone. It's over. The Michael Brown situation taught us that the Rule of Facts is gone. There can not be any society whatsoever when the Rule of Facts is not agreed upon much less the Rule of Law; both are gone. America is a Marxist state and it is in throes of Marxization that will continue to devolve upon itself. It will commit hari-kari. Nihilism does that. Political Correctness/Social Justice are Nihilist programs. They have to eat upon itself, called an oruburos. The Left has to constantly relive the constant agitation of unrest of the Sixties. It is their soul, their juice. And so every incident is a Selma. It is how they energize their base. As David Horowitz said, Political Correctness is an ersatz religion. It is a religion of Nihilism. Nihilism ends in only annihilation; self-immolation. America is in the process of self-immolation. There is nothing to stop it.

Blogger Cuca Culpa May 02, 2015 9:55 PM  

The FBI is already the national police.

Blogger Cuca Culpa May 02, 2015 10:16 PM  

>But I'm not going to shed a tear for a heroin dealer

So I imagine that you don't care about the CVS drug dealer who had his store burned.

Heroin is a trademark of Bayer. As with gun laws, Prohibition makes everything worse.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 10:24 PM  

But I'm not going to shed a tear for a heroin dealer who got in trouble with police plying his trade

I haven't seen anyone else here shedding a tear for him either, so don't worry, you haven't "parted ways" with anyone here.

Thing is, it's hard to get ordinary Americans worked up over things that don't impact them personally or get their attention in some extreme way. You can talk all day about how the police are increasingly corrupt and militarized, and their eyes will just glaze over. But show them a sensational case where it looks like some cops really went over the top -- regardless of whether the victim was a saint or a thug -- and that'll get their attention. Show them ten such cases, and they might even start to realize there's a problem.

You have to work with what you're given. No, this isn't the ideal case for pointing out police corruption. It'd be much better if they'd been caught being a 90-year-old Irish lady up for her Social Security check. But this is the case we have at the moment, and it does have the bonus that it also shows the affirmative-action politicking that goes on behind the police in a particularly clear light as well.

I don't particularly care about Freddie Gray. I do care about whether the police might come for me or someone I care about someday -- rightly or wrongly -- and whether they'll be able to violate our rights because the media and politicians tell the public we were dirty criminals who deserved it just like Freddie Gray, and the public goes back to sleep.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 10:27 PM  

Now if police were doing this to ordinary people I'd be against it. But they're mostly doing it to people who are OBVIOUSLY career trouble makers.

Oh well, as long as the people the cops brutalize are "mostly" troublemakers, I guess that's okay. I withdraw my foolish objections. Nightsticks ho!

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 02, 2015 10:41 PM  

"In the American-Philoppino War the same thing. Brutality is matched by Brutality."

Good grief! Were are you getting this stuff?

The Filipino were defending themselves from an occupying invader. They were the ones matching the attrocities during their civilizing. I am rustybin my history but I do not think they came even close. Ungratefull bastards. What burden to bear by white man!

Anonymous The other robot (voter) May 02, 2015 10:45 PM  

The SJWs want a new legal system, one that does not depend on facts etc:

The Social Justice crowd need a social law and order system that does not depend on virtue and morality, because the grievance community does not share the same virtues and morality of the larger society.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 02, 2015 10:48 PM  

Anyway, he was an habitual criminal, violent and not worth the trouble, incapable of rehabilitation. It is better that he died.

As I said before, if you think "he needed killin'" should be legal justification for the cops to do an impromptu bit of neighborhood cleanup now and then, by all means get out there and campaign for changes to the laws. Until you accomplish that, they're supposed to obey the laws we have, which don't make them judge, jury, or executioner.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 02, 2015 10:49 PM  

Wow. Coppers are super human They can turn off their bad habits upon contact with ordinary citizens.

Blogger rumpole5 May 02, 2015 10:58 PM  

"and this is another reason why I have come to have so much disdain for prosecutors. Instead of getting actual evidence...". Umm -- testimony IS actual evidence. What one does is look at the other evidence to see what corroborates the testimonial evidence. Example: I had a case where one of two burgars accosted and shot a neighbor who came over to investigate. The victim survived, but could not ID the shooter. I flipped the one I thought was the non shooter to get that ID. In the presentation of what he would testify, the flippee included the fact that at the the time he heard the report of the gun, he was unsuccessfully trying to exit the back door. When I examined the scene photos there was a shoot of the back door with a shade hanging down over the dead bolt. The CST also lifted the shade and photoed the DOUBLE KEY deadbolt ( which was why the codef. could not get out). I offered the " snitch" a lighter, but still significant sentence. It got me a trial conviction and a long, long sentence on the other fellow, who had a long, violent record. It was the right thing to do. The guy was a monster a cold as ice.
In the Baltimore case, if one or more of the less culpable officers is willing to testify, the prosecutor should do exactly the same thing. Life is not perfect. One's reach often exceeds one's grasp, but that is not a reason to stop reaching!

Blogger Jassi May 02, 2015 11:03 PM  

I'm still waiting for evidence of wrongdoing on the part of these police. Sure, the spectacle will put fear into them, but not enough fear to keep them from punishing whites who defend themselves against vibrants.

This whole fiasco only emboldens black criminals and in no way lessens police power or corruption. It will simply be diverted toward far more innocent people ie whites, instead of the obviously dangerous and destructive underclass aka blacks.

OpenID joshtheaspie May 03, 2015 12:11 AM  

Dan in Tx May 02, 2015 2:13 PM
RR: "Freddie died in an APC or MRAP?"

Now your just being an aspie. Ok, I'll go real slow for you:


Just so you know, I am an aspie (see the name)... and I got that you were talking about police militarization in general, and proving your general case with the specific point of armored personnel carriers.

It's also clear that both sides in the exchange have engaged in purposefully blurring points about the general case and the specific case, along with escalating the level of insults and bravado.

Anonymous Steve Brown May 03, 2015 1:26 AM  

Do I have anything to add? Can I enlighten anyone about anything? Maybe, just maybe, I can give some advice. Reread, internalize, and ponder all comments by W. Lindsay Wheeler.

Anonymous Frank Brady May 03, 2015 2:21 AM  

1. We have far too many laws.
2. We have far too many people ready to empower the state out of fear and hatred at the expense of every one's freedom.

Blogger Kirk Parker May 03, 2015 2:36 AM  

What is clearly needed is a Committee to study this issue.

I'm having a bit of trouble deciding whether it should be about Public Safety or State Security.

Help me out, please...

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2015 2:41 AM  

Brilliant Wheeler. You used an example of soldiers dealing with the enemy in a foreign war to justify brutality among police officers dealing with US citizens in US cities.

Do I need to spell out the problems with that, or would you rather dig yourself out of that hole?

Blogger Kirk Parker May 03, 2015 2:44 AM  

rubberducky,

"...an insane riot that trashed an American jewel"

The 19th century called: they want their city back.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 03, 2015 8:54 AM  

There is an old saying, you feathered your nest, now lay in it (here are other versions). Peace Officer stopped being that a long time ago and went into policing. The people on the other side of the "blue line" are getting fed up. As someone pointed out, the cops is a new ethnicity with all the privileges.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 03, 2015 9:52 AM  

Jack Amok, I was using the soldiers in a foreign war as and example, a paradigm, of what goes on in the inner cities. The same paradigm repeats.

What gives this concept is Socrates in Plato's Republic where he states if you want beautiful people, you have to surround them with beautiful things. It is subconscious learning. Architecture, pictures, poetry, music all have to ensconce The Good and the Beautiful. The Greek word for a gentleman is kaloskagatha meaning "the Good and the Beautiful". The envirnoment must be good in order for the person to be good. The analogy Socrates uses is a Tree. A sapling in a crowded forest grows crooked and weak because it has to stretch faster in competition. A sapling in a meadow grows fat and true. It becomes rather a beautiful specimen. It is the same with farming. you put a plant in GOOD soil because it performs better in Good soil rather than in Poor soil. The environment affects the living thing.

The same thing with human interactions as George points out his personal experiences in business. Victorian England was a place of manners and etiquette. The German Classicist again points to this paradigm in his famous book Paideia where he writes that the races' aristocracy forms the culture and then it filters down to the lower classes who absorb aristocratic culture. This was true of the Greek and the Victorian England. It is the aristocracy that sets the culture. Well, in America we don't have a true aristocracy. What we have is the elite, academia and those that control our media. Those are the "elite" and they set the culture. Well, who controls our culture is the Jews, Apostate and Marxist Jews. They set the standards of our culture. They are Nihilists and so our culture is Nihilist. What is going on is Nihilism. The act of destroying things which are traditional is Nihilism.

Culture defines Politics is the sociological law. The culture of warfare defines the characters in it. The culture of thugs is what defines the Politics, policing characteristics.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 03, 2015 10:58 AM  

The German Classicist is Werner Jaeger.

-----

Ann Barnhardt has piece on her predictions on what is coming. On her list is a race wars, and financial collapse. She also links to Matt Bracken on how to take on rolling mobs of vibrancy. Her article here.

Anonymous Native Baltimoron May 03, 2015 11:15 AM  

Late to the party, apparently, but someone noted above that spring-assisted knives are not banned by Maryland statute. This is correct, but it is important to note that Maryland does not pre-empt local knife laws, and Baltimore's definition of "switchblade" is sufficiently vague to include spring-assisted knives. Since weapons charges are usually the first to be plea-bargained away, and the police usually do not have reasonable articulable suspicion to search the construction workers, et al. who regularly carry penknives, this hasn't really come up in court a lot.

Nonetheless, the state's attorney's office advises officers on when to arrest, and in Baltimore, officers have generally been trained to make the arrest and let the courts sort it out. The case for knowing false arrest thus becomes exceedingly flimsy, much like the murder 2 charge.

I would like to see all felony charges brought before a grand jury in future; at least a panel of citizens is less likely to be as incestuously bound up in the case as SA Mosby is in this one.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2015 12:23 PM  

What gives this concept is Socrates in Plato's Republic where he states if you want beautiful people, you have to surround them with beautiful things.

So surrounding ourselves with entitled blue-badged thugs will turn us into what sort of people Wheeler?

Let's go back to the soldier vs peace officer comparison. Yes, of course, you're saying our inner cities are essentially war zones. But if they're war zones, than we need to send in soldiers, not police. Soldiers go in and clear out the enemy. The purpose of a soldier is not to fight the war but to end the war by winning it. After the war is over and the place is no longer a war zone, then and only then do we send the police in.

But you're on board with this absolutely insane idea of making perpetual low-level warfare the normal way of life. Fight wars effectively, brutally if you have to, but bring them to an end as quickly as you can. Anything else is evil.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 03, 2015 1:33 PM  

I never said "surrounding ourselves". Nor did I say entitled blue-badged thugs. I meant none of that. I am trying to say is that environment affects people. Culture defines politics. Culture defines War. Culture is the envirnoment. The environment people live in affect their characteristics.

I'm saying nothing about fighting war zones in an inner city. Policing is not a war.

I am guessing that the "amok" in your moniker is about you being an anarchist. Your prejudices are plain in your response: hatred of all authority. That is basically "Americanism". I understand that. Civilization requires authority. So if your basic premise is that all authority is evil, then you are part of the civilizational collapse here in America. It's like talking to a brick wall. I am NOT comparing soldiers to peace officers. Absolutely not. What I am talking about is a paradigm. Obviously you don't understand paradigms.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2015 5:59 PM  

Wheeler: I'm with George. You need a "rough" police force.

On "Rough Justice", "Rough Policing".

Case in point. The Vietnam War/American-Philopino War. The Vietnam War changed warfare for Americans. We were used to WWI, WWII and Korea. The Vietnam War was much different. Here one was fighting a guerrilla war that followed no rules. The atrocties visited upon the American Soldier changed him--brutalized him. So, in turn, Americans did unto the Viet Cong the same thing. In the American-Philoppino War the same thing. Brutality is matched by Brutality. You have to met Force with Force. What you meet---you must meet.

In the Con World of Ghetto Thug Culture you meet Brutality. Hip Hop/Rap are Brutal types of music; it is then transferred spiritually. Plus, countless years of Political Correctness which teaches Aggravation...


You supported your claim to needing bully-boy cops who go around roughing people up and occassionally kiling them by pointing out how soldiers have to act on the battlefield and likening it to inner cities. Don't pretend you didn't, or that you meant something else. That's exactly what you were trying to do - justify aggressive, deadly, knock 'em around cops by claiming they're soliders in a war on the ghetto.

What you don't seem to grasp is that the bully-boy thuglife cops you want brutalizing the darkies in darkietown won't stay in darkietown. The Blue Gang will eventually leak out of the ghetto and into your neighborhood too. They'll shoot your dog, grope your wife, break your damn neck, and you invited them in to do it.

Soliders are for war zones. Peace officers are for civilized areas. You and your thimblebrained allies have been spending decades turning Peace Officers into soldiers. It's a civilizationally retarded thing to do.

Blogger Weouro May 03, 2015 7:09 PM  

trayvon just wanted to enjoy his skittles in peace, Brown was running away with his hands up don't shoot, "chokehold death" was cruelly strangled to death on the street by a group of cops, and now Freddie Gray supposedly had his spinal cord severed and voice box crushed by a group of cop thugs...I wonder what the actual facts will show this time.

Anonymous Shut Up, Jack May 05, 2015 7:02 PM  

“justify aggressive, deadly, knock 'em around cops by claiming they're soliders in a war on the ghetto.”

Why not? As far I’ve been told, vibrants are vermin. What do you do with vermin? Shoot them. Why are you supporting their uncivilized conduct? Wheeler is absolutely correct here. The police are in a war zone. Shoot on sight. Ask questions later. Vibrants lack any capacity to reason. Isn’t that what we’ve been told? Do you want to solve the race problem, Jack? Well, this is the ONLY sure-fire solution. What, you think legalized segregation and/or repatriation will work? Surely you jest. And you really think that white cops will come into your neighborhood and start shit with you and your family? If you are white, you have NO issues with the police.

Stop embarrassing yourself.



“Fight wars effectively, brutally if you have to, but bring them to an end as quickly as you can.”

And bringing vibrants to an end as quickly as one can means removing them. Permanently, right?


“But you're on board with this absolutely insane idea of making perpetual low-level warfare the normal way of life.”

Jack, this IS the normal way of life for the police and the vibrants. Wake up!


“So surrounding ourselves with entitled blue-badged thugs will turn us into what sort of people Wheeler?”

Those who advocate civilization, Jack. Why are essentially siding with vibrants on this matter?

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