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Monday, May 25, 2015

Racists vs Child Rapists

The Campbell-Delany divide pretty well sums up the two sides in the science fiction culture war. To translate how the New Republic describes it, it is scientagic realists against child-molesting pedophiles and their defenders in the science fiction community:
To outsiders, the struggle over the Hugos can be confusing. It involves the arcane details of a complex nomination procedure and factions named Sad Puppies 3 and Rabid Puppies. But the ruckus makes a lot more sense in the context of science fiction's historical lack of diversity, and there's perhaps no better illustration of that problem than the career of Samuel R. Delany.... John W. Campbell, Analog's editor, claimed that he enjoyed shaking up his audience with outrageous ideas, but [Delany's] "Nova" proved too much for him. According to Delany, Campbell called the author's agent and said that while he liked the novel, "he didn't feel his readership would be able to relate to a black main character." Campbell's contention that fans weren't ready for a book like "Nova" was belied by the fact that it was shortlisted for a Hugo in 1969.

Campbell used his audience as a cover for his own racism. He had published editorials arguing that slavery was a perfectly sensible system for pre-industrial societies, championing the racial theory that whites have a fundamentally higher level of intelligence than blacks and asserting, "One of the major reasons the Negro people are having so much trouble gaining acceptance is, simply, that the Negroes are not doing an adequate job of disciplining their own people, themselves." Campbell was no fringe kook. He was the most influential science-fiction editor of the last century, whose vision of rule-based, scientifically informed fiction shaped the careers of such canonical writers as Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, Theodore Sturgeon and Frank Herbert.

Amid the strife of the 1960s, which polarized science fiction no less than the rest of culture, it was easy to cast Campbell and Delany as diametric opposites: Campbell as the old reactionary apostle of heroic, manly tales of space cowboys, and Delany as the young subversive practitioner of cutting-edge speculative fiction that challenged certitudes about identity.
We have called for a Cambellian revolution in science fiction; to a certain extent, that's what Blue SF is. And "subversive speculative fiction that challenges certitudes about identity, morality, religion, sexual orientation, and tradition" is about as good a way as any to describe the Pink SF we oppose. Campbellian SF vs Delanyite SF. Science vs Subversion. White Male Racists vs Gay Child Rapists.

One thing you'll note that the mainstream media never does is to dig up and expose the evil that lies at the heart of Pink SF. They love to point-and-shriek at the late Campbell's racism, never mind that he was, and is, absolutely correct, as whites have been reliably observed to possess a higher average intelligence than blacks. One would expect a top science fiction editor to be up on the relevant science, after all. Here is a quote from William Saletan, a writer of whom Delany himself cites respectfully:

Among white Americans, the average IQ, as of a decade or so ago, was 103. Among Asian-Americans, it was 106. Among Jewish Americans, it was 113. Among Latino Americans, it was 89. Among African-Americans, it was 85. Around the world, studies find the same general pattern: whites 100, East Asians 106, sub-Sarahan Africans 70.

So, are we all East Asian supremacists now? Is science intrinsically racist and therefore anathema? In the meantime, both the media and the science fiction community resolutely avoid looking into the likelihood that good old "Chip" Delany is a criminal pedophile, like Walter Breen, like Marion Zimmer Bradley, like Ed Kramer, like David Asimov, and like other members of the science fiction community whose sex crimes the science fiction community has either ignored or defended for decades.

The New Republic article quoted Delany talking about Campell; what a pity they didn't quote Delany talking about himself.

"I read the NAMBLA [Bulletin] fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found.  I think before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about."
- Samuel R. Delany, June 25, 1994.

"Since I spent eighteen years of my life as a child, and nine years of that life as a pretty sexually active gay child, my complaint against the current attitudes is that they work mightily to silence the voices of children first and secondarily ignore what adults have to say who have been through these situations. One size fits all is never the way to handle any situation with a human dimension. Many, many children—and I was one of them—are desperate to establish some sort of sexual relation with an older and even adult figure."
- Samuel R. Delany, Wednesday, July 9, 2014

"Adults hurting children is my notion of a bad thing, whether it is through corporal punishment or in any other way. Children hurting children is equally bad. Pain is not a good teaching tool. So that’s where I tend to stop."
- Samuel R. Delany, Wednesday, July 9, 2014

That last quote is particularly problematic, as contra his self-appointed public defenders' claims, Delany is clearly referring to physical pain, not sexual contact, when he says "hurting children" is his "notion of a bad thing". Most people assume that sexual contact is intrinsically harmful to children. Delany actively denies this.

Delany has admitted to being in sexual contact with adult men since the age of 6 and considers himself to have been sexually active since the age of 9. He has attacked the idea that children cannot consent to sexual activity with adults and only opposes children being hurt in the sense of physical pain, and has even quoted a Carlin joke in claiming that it is less harmful to a boy to receive oral sex than be spanked. He has written, repeatedly and at great length, about his fantasies of pre-adolescent boys and girls being raped and otherwise sexually molested by men in a number of his novels, most particularly Hogg: A Novel, which was published in 2004 and is described as follows by Publishers Weekly:
Hugo-and Nebula Award-winner Delany - whose early books were fascinating but whose recent efforts have grown increasingly obtuse - has been trying to get this pornographic novel published since 1973. The main narrator here is an 11-year-old boy who joins up with a raping, murdering pederast named Hogg. Coprophiliac Hogg violates women for pay. He enlists the help of other pedophiliac murdering rapists - Nigg, Dago and Denny - and the group sets off to perform acts of hideous violence. After the attacks, a biker friend of Hogg's sells the boy into sexual slavery to dockyard slum resident Big Sambo, who keeps his 12-year-old daughter for prostitution and his own perversions. The traumatized little girl is gang-raped by Hogg's crew as well. Meanwhile, teenaged Denny goes on an insane mutilating and mass-murder spree, eludes the police and finally returns to Hogg and the hopelessly confused narrator, who has been "rescued" after Hogg murders Big Sambo. Gang-rape attacks and criminal sex orgies are detailed at excruciating length, with photographic realism. This potent emetic is all the more disturbing for want of modulators of honest outrage. 
If one can reasonably declare John W. Campbell a racist on the basis of his essays and reported words, then one can absolutely, and with utter certainty, declare Samuel R. Delany to be a child-raping pedophile on the basis of his own stated beliefs and published fantasies. This is true despite our limited information about his actual historical actions. Whether or not Delany is a literal child rapist, he certainly has child rapist views. And as for his past actions, we certainly know a hell of a lot more about the SFWA Grand Master pedophilic inclinations than we did about Marion Zimmer Bradley's only eleven months ago. Is anyone going to even pretend to be surprised should evidence be uncovered that good old "Chip" acted on his criminal fantasies at some point in the past?

Here are two questions for Samuel R. Delany. If the media or SFWA continue to avoid asking them, you'll know they're simply afraid to receive the answer; even Will Shetterly, who otherwise addressed the issue in a forthright manner, failed to ask the obvious and important question. I will say one thing for Mr. Delany, he is alarmingly forthcoming, he hasn't been afraid to answer difficult questions posed to him in the past, and one can't blame him for not answering questions that were never asked. So here they are:
  1. Have you ever had any form of sexual contact with an individual under the age of 17?
  2. What is the oldest age at which you had some form of sexual contact with an individual under the age of 17?
Until those two questions are answered honestly by Mr. Delany, anyone who denies that good old "Chip" Delany, SFWA Grand Master has ever behaved inappropriately is doing so dishonestly on the basis of no information at all and in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary. What a pity that Delany didn't throw a few spaceships into Hogg or it might have made the Hugo shortlist too.

On a lighter note, this quote from George R.R. Martin cracked me up:
"We're SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY FANS, we love to read about aliens and vampires and elves. Are we really going to freak about Asians and Native Americans?"
Well, George, judging by the continuing series of articles about Sad Puppies and the Hugo Awards, to say nothing of your own copious posting on the subject, you certainly appear to be freaking out about this Native American.

Labels: ,

51 Comments:

Anonymous zen0 May 25, 2015 5:17 AM  

no voxiversity this week?

Blogger VD May 25, 2015 5:24 AM  

Voxiversity will be posted later today. I was at a festival and forgot to schedule it before I left.

Anonymous Steve May 25, 2015 5:35 AM  

And "subversive speculative fiction that challenges certitudes about identity, morality, religion, sexual orientation, and tradition" is about as good a way as any to describe the Pink SF we oppose.

Dunno about that Vox.

Maybe 20 years ago I'd have agreed with you. The way I see it, the Pinks are now the reactionaries and we're the insurgents.

For Pink certitudes about identity (identity politics for EVERYBODY! Except (spit!) white men), morality (Thou Shall Not Be To The Right Of HuffPo), religion (all religion is evil, except Islam and Wicca), sexual orientation (Buttsecks for EVERYBODY!), and tradition (Every season is the Summer of Love) *are* the dominant establishment narrative.

Sure, they haven't fully percolated down to evil white-male-ridden provincial towns yet, where Godawful conservatives and whatnot still cling to their patriotism and their non-gederqueer pronouns. But these are the dominant cultural norms in academia, in left-wing politics, and in the media, including major New York and London publishing concerns.

There's nothing subversive about toeing the establishment line. There's no risk in it. You can publish any old shite, but as long as you make the right feminist or multiculturalist noises the SJW's will pat you on the head and give you awards.

They are not challenging anybody's ceritudes about anything. They're simply parroting duckspeak to other members of the SJW tribe.

Also, the claim that puppies are against "diversity" is transparently bollocks, as the slates - both Sad and Rabid - showed.

I'm sure most of us would be delighted to read awesome SFF books by black authors. But don't want to give unearned awards to authors merely for having currently politically favoured levels of melanin.

So I think we are the rebels, the Resistance, the freedom fighters, against the Borg-like hivemind of the Pinks.

We'll fight them... and we'll win!

Blogger Rek. May 25, 2015 6:10 AM  

Delany is fucking disturbed. Mentally deranged. Madness and folly.

I am shocked and disgusted. How could anyone write such vileness, let alone come up with the idea.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 25, 2015 6:25 AM  

Given the age at which he was initiated, the odds that Delany isn't a child molester are drastically low.

Particularity, if you look at the sexual climate of the early 1970s. For a brief period, there was for a large chunk of society, no mores whatsoever. Kiddie porn was perfectly legal.

Opportunity and inclination often go hand in hand. The people he hung out with didn't know how to say, no.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 May 25, 2015 6:28 AM  

Speaking of all things sexually perverse since you brought up George does anyone else think Game of Thrones has firmly jumped the shark? I finally began watching season 5? the other day including the episode the SJW's are all in a tissy about and ... yes I can see why it gave them the hebbie jebbies. It wasn't rape but it wasn't daffodils and roses and wedding night crap that's supposed to grace a fantasy novel either. I guess it would have helped if he'd been a vampire rather than just a weak little creepy troll. Aside from this though the show really sucks. With all the main characters dead and only the dwarf left to carry the thing personally all I want to see is the zombies descend on and completely destroy Westeros. When did disgusting sex and degradation become a firm requirement for sci-fi and fantasy?

Blogger Jack Ward May 25, 2015 6:34 AM  

@Vox: you certainly appear to be freaking out about this Native American.

Since hard questions today...do you scalp?

Blogger VD May 25, 2015 6:44 AM  

Since hard questions today...do you scalp?

Only myself, when I haven't changed the blade.

Anonymous FrankNorman May 25, 2015 6:53 AM  

Do you people believe what this Delaney person claims about himself?

Blogger JACIII May 25, 2015 6:57 AM  

The neck beard's battle cry, "The Injuns are comin'! The Injuns are comin'!"

There is no room in modern society for paleophobes!

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 May 25, 2015 7:05 AM  

Samuel R. Delany, lower than pond scum. The Social Justice Warriors and their ideological forbearers have only one proper place, in the dirt.

Anonymous And it was copied across May 25, 2015 7:18 AM  

In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm. And as the ages passed, men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911, and their metalsmiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clarity of mind being clouded by lust.

The artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans did charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it. And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord, for they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as He had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the Lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

And being a deceitful spirit the Devil did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.

And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them, and which require a 'Dingus' to make them appear safe.

But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols, for lo, their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken.

Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed. And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol the Devil didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the Prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911's to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the Prophet intended.

Anonymous Bz May 25, 2015 7:30 AM  

The math of that quote creeps me out.

Here's more on Delany in the same vein, from someone sympathetic to him. Spoiler: It doesn't really help. http://www.tor.com/2012/05/31/a-good-life-samuel-r-delanys-through-the-valley-of-the-nest-of-spiders/

Don't forget the comments. Ugh. And of course the cherished degeneracy is trailed by the prim pseudomoralists: "What chiMaxx said. It really is fascinating that blowing up planets is par for the course but unusual sex renders a book unreadable."

Blogger Cail Corishev May 25, 2015 7:59 AM  

Particularity, if you look at the sexual climate of the early 1970s. For a brief period, there was for a large chunk of society, no mores whatsoever.

And in fact, there was a theory that a bit of sexual experimentation both ways might be helpful to a kid who was having some sexual identify confusion (which we were told was a normal part of puberty), to help the kid find himself (That's probably the sort of "nuanced" thing he enjoyed reading about in NAMBLA newsletters.) A bit like the parents who tried to keep their kids from smoking by making them smoke a whole pack at once. So having sex with a young person might not be bad; it might even be a sort of therapy.

Blogger James Dixon May 25, 2015 8:38 AM  

All of Delany's personal faults aside, the major problem is that his writing (IMO) sucks.

Blogger olaf lee May 25, 2015 10:09 AM  

Well said.
Got to love John M. Browning.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 25, 2015 10:32 AM  

When I saw the title I thought it was going to be about people being racist because Mexicans act like they are still in Mexico with an age of consent of 12. The movie Shenandoah about the illegal alien killed by High School football players blames sports culture but for some odd reason didn't cover the part that he lost a fight but while they walked away said he would have his gang banging buddies get them which led to him getting beaten more. I attended a screening of the movie and asked during the after the movie talk held why the movie blames sports culture but didn't mention the illegal alien that raped a 13yo in the town less than a month before. The SJW that made the movie saw no connection to one illegal alien (had to be tried as a john doe since he used different names)in town raping a 13yo girl & the later illegal's mouth writing checks his body couldn't cash. Lou Doubs covered the illegal alien rape of the 13yo.

Before grindr there used to be guys not old enough to go to gay bars that would have sex just for the attention because they were lonely. I know a gay Hispanic nurse whose specialty is peds, who has multiple former pediatric home health patients turn out gay(although the ones I know about are old enough to go out to the bars now).

Anonymous Northern Observer May 25, 2015 10:38 AM  

Remo:

You should read the books (actually, you shouldn't except to see what the complaints are all about). The writers for the TV series have actually done an excellent job of reining in the directionless mess that they had to work with.

I suspect that Georgie may be taking his moral nihilism and applying it to his world building. He appears to believe that there does not need to be a thread tying the various stories together or any satisfying endings or that characters need to have anything interesting happen to them (e.g. no interesting events, thoughts or dialog, etc). What you get are endlessly branching story lines being introduced that may never re-intersect each other, that don't appear to have any culmination in sight, and an endless amount of pixels and ink used to describe very mundane periods in a character's life in excruciating detail.

Or, he just wanted to make a money grab and take a single book's worth of story and spread it out over three books.

Either, or.

Blogger Jew613 May 25, 2015 10:57 AM  

This season of GOT has been the weakest. But episode 7 was very strong and actually drew me back in. I would say D&D are doing their best with the source material and if episode 7 was anything to go by will make a very strong show despite the books faltering.

I have not read Hogg, nor will I from the description from publishers weekly it sounds like absolute garbage. Has any one read it? Is there any redeeming feature or is the entire book exist just to revel in perversion and cruelty?

Anonymous ivvenalis May 25, 2015 11:04 AM  

When I read the headline, I thought this would be a post about Britain.

Anonymous The other robot May 25, 2015 11:17 AM  

Will File770 quote accurately from this blog posting?

Anonymous EH May 25, 2015 11:26 AM  

With the exception of the unreadable Hogg, Delany's writing is excellent. His extracurricular activities have little bearing on the quality of his books.

It is illogical to defend whatever the current age of consent may be -- it was set by lobbying by the pussy cartel to keep the most attractive competition off the market. Consent or the lack thereof makes a real difference in whether and how much harm is done at any age. The only valid metric to determine to what extent consent is meaningful is the mental level of the person rather than their age as such. The two go together on average, but the bottom 1/6 of adult blacks are less intelligent than the top 1/6 of white five-year olds. While neither should be treated as capable of giving consent, it would be wrong in meting out punishments to ignore the victims' judgements on whether they were merely seduced or violently raped, just as it would be wrong to treat fondling the same as forcible penetration with severe injuries.

Lest it sound like I'm advocating for complete emancipation, I think that extramarital sex in general should be a crime, in particular all homosex.

Blogger bob k. mando May 25, 2015 11:31 AM  

so, quotes from a favorable review of Delany's "Valley of Spiders"

http://www.tor.com/2012/05/31/a-good-life-samuel-r-delanys-through-the-valley-of-the-nest-of-spiders/
"Valley of the Nest of Spiders is a very good book. I cried at the end, not just standing water in my eyes but real choking sobs.
...
But my goodness it’s a difficult book to read. It’s as if Delany tried as hard as he possibly could to make it hard for me to enjoy.
...
It’s not just the graphic sex, though it is very graphic, very copious, and very descriptive. It’s not just the coprophagia and mutual snot-eating
...
I’m all for “Your Kink Is OK”, but we have father/son homosexual incest starting very young, bestiality, urine drinking, and a sexualisation of dirt.
...
While some people may find some of it erotic rather than squicky, I think there’s probably (and intentionally) something here to squick absolutely everyone. Delany’s been saying since Triton that there’s no such thing as “normal”.
...
By the end of the book, a boy called “Cum Stain” wearing transparent fronted pants, is at a party where it’s accepted that nice people don’t talk in public about science…
...
how they negotiate loving each other, while having sex with lots of other people and animals
"


frankly, it looks like Delaney has decided to bring 'Hogg' into mainstream SF.

also, i find it amusing that Delaney's imagined future is one in which discussions of 'science' are forbidden in 'polite' company but homosexual pedophilia is commonplace and respectable.

is this something Delaney actually wants?

Anonymous Mark McSherry May 25, 2015 11:38 AM  

Regarding JWC and Samuel Delaney--- There is a youtube video of Samuel Delaney interviewing Katherine MacLean at Readcon 2011. The interesting bit starts at the two minute mark and runs for 5 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9swcMDVSYpY

The incident described concerns MacLean's June 1950 ASFstory "Incommunicado"---

http://www.sfcovers.net/Magazines/ASF/ASF_0235.jpg

The tale suggests that John W Campbell (and by extension, ASTOUNDING's white male readers) may not be quite the misogynist some have faulted him as. And if he is not an unadulterated woman-hater, perhaps the charge of racism is suspect too.

Hell, I read NOVA in 6th grade via the SFBC and, even at that age, I knew it wasn't ASTOUNDING/ANALOG material. I subscribed to ANALOG at the time and remember how readers resisted the new editor's (Ben Bova) attempts to modernize stories by including mentions of sexual and bodily functions. So Campbell, who died in 1971, knew his readership's tastes--- It wasn't racism that led JWC to not serialize NOVA, but the (for its time) racy content.

Blogger Michael Maier May 25, 2015 11:40 AM  

Campbell used his audience as a cover for his own racism. He had published editorials arguing that slavery was a perfectly sensible system for pre-industrial societies, championing the racial theory that whites have a fundamentally higher level of intelligence than blacks and asserting, "One of the major reasons the Negro people are having so much trouble gaining acceptance is, simply, that the Negroes are not doing an adequate job of disciplining their own people, themselves." Campbell was no fringe kook. He was the most influential science-fiction editor of the last century, whose vision of rule-based, scientifically informed fiction shaped the careers of such canonical writers as Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, Theodore Sturgeon and Frank Herbert.

So his sin is being observant to reality?

Blogger Zimri May 25, 2015 11:42 AM  

The words are right there in front of us. Walter Breen was a raper. Delany is a rapist. MZB was both.

Anonymous Ain May 25, 2015 11:52 AM  

For all Delany's insistence that rape doesn't harm children and shouldn't even be called rape, Hogg is an adamantine case study of how it destroys the mind when left unhealed.

Blogger Zimri May 25, 2015 12:10 PM  

As for the age of consent, it's not that the age is arbitrary and that a better metric would be on the emotional maturity of either party, which is hard to gauge. All that is true. But equally it's not the result of "the pussy cartel".

It's because America has an educational system that requires almost all "children" to attend school up to, roughly, 18. If you lower the AOC, (more) young men and women (now defined) will be sexing their teachers. This will corrupt the educational system (further).

Lowering / means-testing the AOC will only work if you also enact harsh penalties for authority figures who act on it.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 25, 2015 12:10 PM  

Someday we'll be reading histories about antecanine SF, and the despicable sins of white oppressors like Delany who was actually a conservative Republican even though he'd describe himself as a progressive Democrat because, see, the parties switched names sometime in the past for no reason.

Anonymous Roundtine May 25, 2015 12:23 PM  

I was just a little boy readin' some Heinlein,
Trying to grok new ideas in my mind then,
Fell away for a time to the desert of the real,
Came back to find Jules Verne ass raped by a were-seal?
Sad Puppies tried to make you realize,
But you can see through those blind eyes,
So now the bell tolls for thee,
Shine a light on what you made of fantasy,
White Male Racists vs Gay Child Rapists,
Rabid Puppies gonna make you go ape shit,
SJWs turning all their old tricks,
Say it's all cause we just picks,
Who hate chicks wit dicks,
But y'all don't know the storm that's comin'
One the ELoL got the war machine hummin',
This body in motion ain't gonna rest,
Till it cleaned up yo' mess,
So go put on yo' dress,
Go whine to the press,
Ramp up your hate,
As we regulate,
Pray to the gods,
Old and new if you dare,
Their reply y'all ready know it:
We don't care.


We don't care.











OpenID malcolmthecynic May 25, 2015 12:25 PM  

Campbell called the author's agent and said that while he liked the novel, "he didn't feel his readership would be able to relate to a black main character." Campbell's contention that fans weren't ready for a book like "Nova" was belied by the fact that it was shortlisted for a Hugo in 1969.

But that's not racist. It is, at worst, wrong, and since I don't know how well "Nova" sold it may well not have been.

Anonymous SixtusVIth May 25, 2015 12:30 PM  

For all Delany's insistence that rape doesn't harm children and shouldn't even be called rape, Hogg is an adamantine case study of how it destroys the mind when left unhealed.

THANK YOU

Among the clearest proofs that the Left are insane and cannot be dealt with by rational, dialectical means (as Vox says lately) is their tendency to implicitly admit that everything their most vehement critics say about them is right, without realizing that they are in fact making a confession. Delaney is a classic example of this, his entire sexual biography (which is now clearly identical with his total biography and seemingly his bibliography) is a case study in every right-wing trope about homosexuals being played out to the hilt:

- Pedos run rampant in the gay community? - CHECK - Delaney supports NAMBLA

- Gays recruit? - CHECK - Delaney admits being recruited at age 6 and being regularly a participant at age 9. Likelihood that the he has "initiated" some boys himself? 97%+.

- Gays are compulsive promoters of deviance and aggressors against morality? - CHECK - "Delaney has been saying since Triton that there is no 'normal'".

Delaney is a (literally) God-damned right wing propaganda checklist. And none of them can tell.

Anonymous Hieronymus Bosch May 25, 2015 12:44 PM  

"When did disgusting sex and degradation become a firm requirement for sci-fi and fantasy?"

About the same time it became a firm requirement for all other media.

Dismemberment, cannibalism, gang rape, disembowelment, torture, burnt bodies, it's all there. Prime time.

You watch it. You let your children watch it. God help you, you watch it alongside your children.

Just turn it off.

Blogger Sean Carnegie May 25, 2015 12:47 PM  

I'm beginning to think the best news Vox has received since Ender's birth was the finding of Native American-ness in his genome.

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii May 25, 2015 12:59 PM  

Aw, man, you had to bring Religion into it. ;-)

Anonymous Donn #0114 May 25, 2015 1:04 PM  

Vox - Quit wearing the sombrero and poncho while shaving, it restricts your range of motion.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 25, 2015 1:15 PM  

I agree with Steve, we're the subversives these days.

I disagree with EH. What is illogical is looking at historical times when many women got married shortly after puberty and thinking the age of consent should be lowered to the same. Those 14 year olds weren't "consenting" in the way it's used today - they were for the most part participating in marriages set up by their parents, grandparents or guardians. Whatever you think about arraigned marriages, it was adults making those decisions, not early teenaged girls. Horny teenagers with limited experience of the world have no business making those sorts of decisions for themselves. Very few of them have the ability to protect themselves against predators like Delaney and the rest of the pedo brigade.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 25, 2015 1:54 PM  


"It's because America has an educational system that requires almost all "children" to attend school up to, roughly, 18. If you lower the AOC, (more) young men and women (now defined) will be sexing their teachers. This will corrupt the educational system (further)."

Many states have a law now that adds a "position of authority" rider to the age of consent laws. An adult who is in a position of authority over a teen is considered responsible until the teen is 18. So teachers, pastors, scout masters, etc can still be charged for statutory rape even if the teen is over the state's AOC.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 25, 2015 1:57 PM  

"Horny teenagers with limited experience of the world have no business making those sorts of decisions for themselves."

Do you put Mooney Lynn in prison or not?

Blogger bob k. mando May 25, 2015 5:01 PM  

Chris Mallory May 25, 2015 1:57 PM
Do you put Mooney Lynn in prison or not?



did Loretta's parents disagree with the marriage? remember, these are Appalachia hill folk we're talking about. her father wouldn't likely have had a problem leaving Mooney out back in a holler some place if he really had a problem with him.

also, while wiki says that Loretta married at 13, the dates they give don't work out. it says she was born in April 14, 1932 and married on January 10, 1948. that's almost 16.

Blogger Giuseppe May 25, 2015 7:01 PM  

That fat bastard's scalp seems too oily for anyone to want to take, but hey, if any Red-skinned savage can do it, you're it Vox. I'd help but physically touching oily fat old men with bestiality fantasies in their heads is one of those "must try to avoid" things that may well form part of my budding religious sentiments.

Blogger Giuseppe May 25, 2015 7:10 PM  

EH,
for my money, honestly, if that is how you really think, on my planet, if there were such a place, you should be shot. By your own "logic" fucking smart 5 year olds is fine as long as you don't physically tear them. Bullet. To. The. Head.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit May 25, 2015 9:06 PM  

Giuseppe: I'll bring the shovel.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 25, 2015 10:42 PM  

Mallory, I didn't say 15 year old's shouldn't marry, I said they shouldn't make those decisions for themselves. I don't know what the story was with Loretta Lynn's nuptials, so I can't say what should've happened to Doo Lynn. But one of the traditional punishments for a guy having sex with a young woman was being required to marry her. That tends to put a damper on the alpha cads

Anonymous AnalogMan May 26, 2015 1:17 AM  

We have called for a Campbellian revolution in science fiction

This article pretty well sums up the fundamental conflict, and I applaud your stance. However, I'm not seeing much light in this tunnel.

Remo asks " When did disgusting sex and degradation become a firm requirement for sci-fi and fantasy?" I can't say, but for me I think it was, of all people, Heinlein with that rubbishy "Stranger" thing of his. But the rot is deeper than the moral perversity. There's a huge aching vacuum where there should be stories and ideas.

I looked at the Hugo packet of John C Wright's short stories. Two pages in I thought, "Meh. Harry Potter goes to Narnia, via Neverland". I'm sure Mr Wright is an admirable person, and his fiction is morally pure and all, but it's not science fiction. Fantasy just doesn't interest me.

So, what do I want in a SF book?

I want a protagonist that I can identify with. He shares my values, broadly. Campbell was dead right in that respect. I couldn't identify with a black protagonist, and wouldn't read that book. I've lived all my life in Africa, and there's no way I could suspend disbelief to pretend that he's just like me, but with a different paint job.

I want speculation about a possible future, extrapolating from a specific catalyst: a present social trend, event or technological development. Space flight is the obvious example, with its possibilities of a virtually limitless frontier.

I want a story of people within that context. A bit of mystery, conflict, romance, courage, humour, the usual elements of a good story. But plausible, interesting and eventful.

Is that too much to ask?

Blogger Feather Blade May 26, 2015 1:22 AM  

arguing that slavery was a perfectly sensible system for pre-industrial societies,

Obviously. I mean, what else are you going to do with your prisoners of war?

Anonymous The other robot May 26, 2015 3:05 AM  

Predictably, File770 failed to discuss this item by Vox.

Anonymous Bz May 26, 2015 10:58 AM  

Another sympathetic review of another Delany memoir: http://www.tor.com/2010/01/07/the-whole-notion-of-autobiography-samuel-delanys-lemgthe-motion-of-light-in-waterlemg/

Choice quote:

"The sex stuff is very explicit, and can be hard to take not because it’s gay sex but because of the incredible level of promiscuity available in those pre-AIDS days in New York. He also talks about a lover who used to break into houses and rape old women, and while he’s disapproving he’s not half as horrified as I am. My general reaction to his descriptions of all this is a combination of envy (I don’t think this sort of thing would work for me, but it’s never been available to me to find out) disbelief (I have no problem with it in fiction, but for reality it’s hard to suspend my disbelief) and general bemusement. At least it’s never boring."

Fine people these SJWs.

Blogger Marissa May 26, 2015 11:35 AM  

But one of the traditional punishments for a guy having sex with a young woman was being required to marry her.

Yes, there's an age 50 / age 17 marriage in my ancestry, and the baby came along before nine months passed. Makes you wonder.

Blogger Youngblood May 26, 2015 11:53 AM  

He also talks about a lover who used to break into houses and rape old women, and while he's disapproving he's not half as horrified as I am.

Jesus Christ. This would destroy the career of anybody else.

Chris Kluwe (SJW, former Minnesota Viking) has admitted being aware of a statutory rape in the Vikings' locker room, but to the best of my knowledge he has not divulged that information to the police. Arthur Chu (SJW, former Jeopardy! champ) also stated publicly that he knew people who had raped women. And now this. Delany's lover breaking into homes and raping old women.

Could it be that they see rape as so prevalent because they spend time around rapists?

Blogger epobirs May 27, 2015 3:42 AM  

The Hugo nomination for 'Nova' is not a disproof of Campbell's decision. As today, the Worldcon membership was a small subset of the reader base out in the real world and rather more given to ideas that were not mainstream and would never be. And plenty of them were utterly miserable as a result.

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