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Wednesday, May 20, 2015

The SJWs review the shortlist

Not that the outcomes were ever in any doubt, but it's always interesting to see what justifications the SJWs produce for their DISQUALIFY. Here are a few commenting at File 770:
Hampus Eckerman on May 19, 2015 at 9:04 am said:

Just finished the Related Works. Not satisfied again.

Wisdoms from my Internet was mostly a collection of tweets. Some were funny, some were well thought out, others were boring and a few were… well, lets say they catered to people with another political taste than me. Ranting about “SJWs” is not the way to get votes from me. Anyhow, who wants to read that amount of tweets? Nah, this is a no award.

Why Science is Never Settled was the standard article about the scientific methods, one of hundreds, just not as well done as many others. No award again.

Wright is as horrible as usual in his Transhuman and Subhuman:

“The female spirit is wise rather than cunning, deep in understanding rather than adroit in deductive logic, gentle and supportive rather than boastful and self-aggrandizing.”

“Contrariwise, when women in the kitchen or the nursery use the name of the Lord in vain, and the children they are nursing and teaching hear them, the vulgarity has the negative effect of deadening the emotions of the youngsters and making them vulgar and indifferent to vulgarity.”


“Also a woman who is crude inspires contempt, because she has contempt for God and man. The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”
And so on. Bollocks I say.

Hot Equations might be very interesting for a weapons nerd or for someone who loves reading about exactly how weapons work. Sorry to say, I’m not that person.

Which leaves Letters from Gardner which was just damned weird. A mix of a guys memoire, writing tips and then stories. As I had never heard of him before, the memoire part was kind of boring. The writing tips weren’t anchored in anything. Stories in the mix of this just felt strange. So, nah.

And thats it. No award I guess.

clif on May 20, 2015 at 9:39 am said:

so I’ve read all I’m going to read of the short stories … preliminary voting …

1. Totaled
2. A Single Samurai
3. No Award
4. Turncoat
5. On a Spiritual Plain
6. The Parliament of Beasts and Birds


Nate Harada on May 20, 2015 at 7:27 am said:

I will confess that I No Awarded four full categories and I’m pretty >_< about it. I *wanted* to like "A Single Samurai." I did, really! But, well, yeah. No. But it was good of Baen to include the entire anthology in which it appeared.


Katya on May 20, 2015 at 4:54 am said:

@Happy Turtle I’ve read most of 3 categories (Short Fiction, Novel, Graphic Story). In one of those categories, only two of the works are strong enough that I would have finished reading them if I came across them in a magazine. While both are OK, neither has strong enough writing or storytelling or characterization to be ‘award’ level writing. I’ve read short stories published this year that are much, much stronger than both of those works. I don’t feel it is right to give a prestigious award to works that are middle-of-the-pack. To me, it devalues the award.


nickpheas on May 20, 2015 at 1:08 am said:

OK, reads Hugo Packet. One Bright Star To Guide Me By.

Is there an in story reason why Wright seems to use Sally and Sarah to describe one of his characters, or just did he forget what he called her?


rob_matic on May 20, 2015 at 1:58 am said:

He may be using Sally as a diminutive of Sarah, although I can imagine it reading oddly if both are being used.

Peace Is My Middle Name on May 20, 2015 at 2:07 am said:
Given Wright’s stated attitudes towards women, I find it utterly unsurprising that he cannot even remember the name of his own character.


SocialInjusticeWorrier on May 20, 2015 at 4:43 am said:

I don’t think switching between Sally and Sarah is a problem, so long as the author has a good reason for doing it. I could see O. Henry, for example, using the shift in names very effectively to make a point about how different someone is/appears in a formal setting (as Sarah) as opposed to their normal life (as Sally). What I don’t see is John C Wright having any such purpose in his narrative, which argues for incompetence or carelessness.

 GSLamb on May 19, 2015 at 7:18 pm said:

Had a few days convalescence (and a few more ahead), so I thought it a fine time to catch up on my Hugo reading.

Thanks to a very good local library, I have been reading most of the Best Novel nominees on the traditional Ent-corpse editions. “Skin Game” was everything I thought it would be – no more, no less. “Three Body Problem” was either over my head or not something to read on medication (I will revisit next month). Even though I had not read the first novel, I enjoyed “Ancillary Sword”. It wasn’t until the end when I realized that not every “She” was female (again, medication).

With renewed access to my laptop, I started greedily digesting the Hugo packet.

Oy.

The worst thing about the packet is that I have to wait until they release the list of what would have made the Hugo ballot sans-slate so that I can read those works.

Having read that one story by John C. Wright (do not bother me with quibbles – they are all the same story*) five times was, admittedly, rough work. Luckily I had left the Graphic Story for afterwards. I nearly ruptured something reading “Rat Queens”.

Now, this might all sound very convincing were it not for the sort of works they were awarding in recent years. Or if you weren't able to see for yourself what "Rat Queens" is like. No, there can be no compromise, as those who were formerly neutral are coming to understand.

Will on May 19, 2015 at 4:43 pm said:

Until now, until tonight, I thought they were full of BS. Utter BS. But you make their case better than they do. Congratulations.

Will on May 19, 2015 at 4:49 pm said:

You couldn’t be helping Vox more if he was paying you.

And where would we be without SJWs to not only explain what is good and acceptable science fiction versus what is bad and unacceptable science fiction, but also our own principles.  After all, they obviously understand us so very well.

Bruce Baugh on May 20, 2015 at 8:26 am said:

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them.


Aaron on May 20, 2015 at 5:30 am said:

The Puppies have already lost. Even if one of their authors wins a Hugo, the Puppies lose, because what none of the Puppies seem to understand is the award doesn’t confer the prestige you all so clearly crave. The prestige has to come first, or the award will be seen as tainted and undeserved. Every Puppy campaign has been an admission on the part of the organizers that the works they are touting are too weak to get nominated on their own merits. Every Puppy campaign is an admission that the Puppy touted authors are simply too lousy at their profession to earn recognition for their actual work. Every Puppy campaign is itself a loss for the Puppies.

Labels: ,

162 Comments:

Anonymous Clint #47/#73 May 20, 2015 4:43 PM  

Bruce Baugh on May 20, 2015 at 8:26 am said:

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them.


Whew, good thing we have them to explain ourselves to us...

Blogger S1AL May 20, 2015 4:43 PM  

The only accurate statement I saw any of them make is that there are a couple of copy-editing errors in Turncoat. When that's the only accurate complaint - meh.

Liked the RtRH stuff enough to go get it off of Amazon and spend a couple hours reading it today. Well done.

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) May 20, 2015 4:45 PM  

"Wisdoms from my Internet was mostly a collection of tweets. "

He's attempting to find wisdom from internet tweets.
As Markku says - " Only Hindu gods have enough hands for adequate facepalm".

Blogger Jim May 20, 2015 4:46 PM  

The prestige has to come first, or the award will be seen as tainted and undeserved.

Funny. We've been saying that about the Hugos for years. They're just now catching on.

Anonymous Stephen J. May 20, 2015 4:47 PM  

"Even if one of their authors wins a Hugo, the Puppies lose, because what none of the Puppies seem to understand is the award doesn’t confer the prestige you all so clearly crave. The prestige has to come first, or the award will be seen as tainted and undeserved."

Good grief. Talk about missing the point. Does this man not realize that this is exactly what the Puppies have already been saying about the Hugo nominees and awards prior to this year? -- that the awards are tainted and undeserved as they stand, because the "prestige" attributed to them by their selectors is in fact the opinion of an incredibly small and professionally incestuous group of tastemakers who only gained that power by exploiting fandom's ignorance about the process?

In my time I've missed more than a few very large beams in my own eye while griping about others' motes, but honestly, this is a whole 'nother level in that art.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 20, 2015 4:49 PM  

Every Puppy campaign is an admission that the Puppy touted authors are simply too lousy at their profession to earn recognition for their actual work. Every Puppy campaign is itself a loss for the Puppies.

That boy's been huffing paint again. Lead paint.

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them.

I've long suspected that the whole libertarian thing was just a schtick. Now we know. Did he "furry-splain" it to Nate, or did he "otherkin-splain" it?

Blogger Alexander May 20, 2015 4:49 PM  

And here I thought, straight from John Scalzi's pen, that there was nothing wrong with voting for someone solely because you like the author and thought: hey, maybe this author I like would like a(nother) Hugo!

And that didn't diminish the prestige of the award?

Blogger D. Lane (#0067) May 20, 2015 4:50 PM  

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them.


I imagine it must be quite bothersome to live persistently in a fantasy, only to have some meddling asshole stroll in and refuse to play along. The audacity of it is just striking!

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 20, 2015 4:51 PM  

Hell, I want to read the monologue now. Nate, post it here so we can enjoy it or at least a link.

Blogger Student in Blue May 20, 2015 4:52 PM  

I nearly ruptured something reading “Rat Queens”.

What a coincidence, so did I. I nearly ruptured my gut reflex.

Anonymous Peter Pan May 20, 2015 4:53 PM  

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them.

Sigh. How much more self-important can they get?

Blogger Marissa May 20, 2015 4:55 PM  

These people are astroturf. I don't worry about them. I think the majority of people voting are Puppies of some sort or people who want to read and make a choice. The SJWs are a minority. They might not know it, but they are. That's why they've needed to pull strings behind the scenes so often just to win within a small pool of votes. They're done for.

Blogger JDC May 20, 2015 4:59 PM  

Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives:

Nate's a conservative? Whoo'da thunk it.

Blogger Chiva May 20, 2015 5:02 PM  

"Every Puppy campaign is itself a loss for the Puppies."

Next thing they will be singing "Dead Puppies" by Ogden Edsl.

Blogger AmyJ May 20, 2015 5:05 PM  

"I don’t feel it is right to give a prestigious award to works that are middle-of-the-pack. To me, it devalues the award."

Lol

Anonymous Nathan May 20, 2015 5:08 PM  

Sounds more like they are looking for reasons to justify what they've already decided to do.

As for graphic novels, can we burn that category down at least?

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 5:08 PM  

For the record, Sally is a diminutive of Sarah, and one is used for the character when she is ten years old, the other when she is thirty five.

How, from this, the Morlocks pretend to reach the conclusion that I have disdain for women is beyond even the imagination of a psychotherapist.

The quotes where I am praising women fulsomely should provoke scorn from the bold Men's Rights Blue Pill Alpha-Game loyalists, and that scorn would be deserved, for I am an unrepentant romantic.

How the feminists interpret flattery as insult, however, is again, a sign of self-imposed ideological insanity.

Hence, when I say the feminine spirit is wise and deep in understanding and Mr Eckermen says 'bullocks' -- so he is saying women are unwise and shallow? And from this, he draws the conclusion that my words insult women but his laud?

Drooling yahoo! I pray the day come swiftly when we may trample them to bits with our dispassionate Houyhnhnm hooves.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 5:09 PM  

Hrmm.... someone responded?

And such well thought out responses.

See... I commented responding to the dumb The Might Case Struck Out schtick some SJW commenter left.. suggesting we'd all be broken hearted if someone didn't win an award.

I simply told them the truth. This year was a scouting mission. After the vote... no matter what the outcome was... we'd have more information. Which is all we hoped to get in the first place.

And we'd use that information to be back next year.

And I explained that we don't care if everyone gets No Awarded. That's fine with us. Hell some of us would prefer that. And we don't care if we don't get all No Awarded... if some of our guys win... that's great too.

The point is... no matter what happens... this isn't over in 2015. We will be back in 2016... and it won't be gentle like it was this time.

Blogger Josh May 20, 2015 5:10 PM  

Nate on May 20, 2015 at 5:06 am said:
You imagine we who seek to end puppy related sadness and puppy related rabies will be angry and upset with no award. You imagine that we will be furious if one of our authors doesn’t win at least something.

There is a professional field where this would be called industrial stength projection.

If our authors win… we win.

If no award wins… we win.

And if you no award everything… we still win.

And please understand… we will be back next year. The slates aren’t going away. If anything they’ll just merge into one bigger more powerful slate than the two that dominated this year.

We have told you already… this year was just a scouting mission. We’re testing your strengths and weaknesses. We will know more about where we stand after the voting. So we will know better how to prepare for next year.

So if you’re looking to 2016 for relief don’t.

We’ll be doing it again in 2016… and it won’t be gentle like this time.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 May 20, 2015 5:14 PM  

We’ll be doing it again in 2016… and it won’t be gentle like this time.

Jim Hines just squee'd his panties

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 5:16 PM  

and of course they are idiots... incapable of strategy or tactics... so they assume everyone else is as well.

Even after someone like Martin has pointed out that the Hugo Awards cannot stand a whole night of "No Award" over and over and over again... they still can't grasp why that would mean we won.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 20, 2015 5:24 PM  

3. No Award
4. Turncoat


Are they really going to No Award Butcher because the Puppies recommended him? That would be awesome.

Blogger DaveofSpades May 20, 2015 5:26 PM  

I'm sorry, reading their inane, lying, evil comments just makes me want to punch them in the mouth. I can't dredge up the ability to feel sympathy for the SJWs. I try telling myself they're broken, blind, trapped, they don't understand they're the bad guys...but in the end it's consumed by rage as they lie, lie, & lie again and they rage against all that is good and shit on all that is beautiful. All the while berating us for being repulsed by their ugliness.

Blogger tweell May 20, 2015 5:30 PM  

Sad Puppies III was run by Brad (Carebear) Torgersen. Sad Puppies IV will be run by Kate (The Impaler) Paulk. This is incredible foreshadowing for anyone with half a brain, which evidently does not include SJW's. We have not yet begun to fight.

Anonymous Jeromus May 20, 2015 5:31 PM  

And so on. Bollocks I say.

With such solid logical reasoning, how could he not be wrong?

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 20, 2015 5:32 PM  

...what none of the Puppies seem to understand is the award doesn’t confer the prestige you all so clearly crave.

Yeah...that was plan A, all along.

We were certain that if only we could get our guys on the ballot, their intrinsic worth would be so blindingly obvious that the SJWs would be forced to press their foreheads into the dust and offer our nominees the praise and adulation they so richly deserve.

There is not the slightest possibility that the SJWs would judge a work on anything or than the most stringent standards of artistic merit, utterly devoid of political influence.

They have surely done so. Weighed our offerings and found them wanting.

How foolish of us. We could never hope to offer up works of beauty and grandeur like Red Shirts, If You Were A Dinosaur My Love and Queers Dig Timelords.

Such prestige shall never be ours. (*Cataline weeps*)

Blogger Jew613 May 20, 2015 5:32 PM  

After If You Were A Dinosaur My Love, was lionized its impossible to take any literary criticism by SJWs seriously.

VFM #322

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 20, 2015 5:33 PM  

OK, I tried reading the graphic novels and I think I am going to no award that category.

Surely there must be something out there worth reading. I'm no fan of the politics of The Watchmen, but artistically it has merit. Everything in the graphic novel portion of the Hugo Packet seemed juvenile to me, at best.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 20, 2015 5:35 PM  

The quotes where I am praising women fulsomely should provoke scorn from the bold Men's Rights Blue Pill Alpha-Game loyalists, and that scorn would be deserved, for I am an unrepentant romantic.

Mr. Wright, did you mean Red Pill? Blue Pill refers to those who hold to romantic ideals and pedestalize women, where Red Pill claims to see clearly and truly their more base nature.

Or did you mean that as an offhand criticism of those sorts actually having a Blue Pill (comfortable fantasy) view of women, as a sort of deluded cynicism?

Blogger Cail Corishev May 20, 2015 5:36 PM  

When I read stuff like this from SJWs, I often get the impression that they form their paragraphs from authentic paragraph parts, but without much idea how the parts should go together.* The sentences mostly make grammatical sense, with subjects and verbs and all that, but they don't follow each other in any logical sense. One seems to be making a point about something, and then the next one contradicts it or takes off in a different direction. And they're all so detached from reality that I can't tell when they're being serious and when facetious. It's weird, like reading something that was written to exercise a translation program rather than to communicate with human beings.

(*) I think that's a paraphrase of something from Douglas Adams, so credit where it's due.

Blogger VD May 20, 2015 5:36 PM  

As for graphic novels, can we burn that category down at least?

Go for it. It merits it.

Blogger Russell (106) May 20, 2015 5:38 PM  

Every Puppy campaign is itself a loss for the Puppies.

Getting a single award when the SP/RPs have none is a loss. So the more you win, the more you lose, understand?

The only way to win is not to play. Jeez, people, didn't you see that 80's movie?

Anonymous Teenage Jail May 20, 2015 5:39 PM  

Well, If You Were A Dinosaur won the Nebula, but lost the Hugo. The Water That Falls On You From Nowhere, which won the Hugo, wasn't much better, though at least it sort of tried to be speculative fiction.

So either it's a political popularity contest (ya think?), or they really do consider those the best SF/F stories published in 2013. I'm not sure which is worse.

Anonymous Scintan May 20, 2015 5:39 PM  

I've never read anything by Mr. Wright, so I can't comment on that, but I do have to say this:

Aaron is an idiot.

Blogger maniacprovost May 20, 2015 5:42 PM  

One seems to be making a point about something, and then the next one contradicts it or takes off in a different direction. And they're all so detached from reality that I can't tell when they're being serious and when facetious.

...FYI, I am not an SJW. AFAIK. TTYL.

Blogger Student in Blue May 20, 2015 5:46 PM  

Go for it. It merits it.

I would've done it anyway unless you had a really, really good reason why any of those are award-worthy.

I read them all, and they're all bad. Some worse than others for sure, but...

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 5:47 PM  

"Are they really going to No Award Butcher because the Puppies recommended him? That would be awesome."

Turncoat isn't Butcher. its a short story from Riding the Red Horse

But yes. I fully expect them to No Award Butcher.

Anonymous Huckleberry (#87) -- est. 1977 May 20, 2015 5:48 PM  

I had always wondered where on the Internet hid the most banal, gibbering and dimwitted group of navel-gazing Special Ed dropouts -- I had long thought it was a tossup between @scalzi's site or Dick-to-the-Dawkins' message boards.
I see that distinction belongs to File 770, and it isn't close.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 20, 2015 5:50 PM  

The Hugos carried prestige because they were first won by the likes of Heinlein, Herbert, Zelazny, and Niven.

The Hugos haven't gone to a works of that caliber in nearly twenty years.

The prestige is gone. Standing on the shoulders of giants doesn't make you less of a midget.

Blogger Student in Blue May 20, 2015 5:50 PM  

@Cail Corishev
The sentences mostly make grammatical sense, with subjects and verbs and all that, but they don't follow each other in any logical sense.

That's what happens when you operate on "feelz, not realz".

Seriously though they operate on feelings rather than concepts or a notion of truth.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 May 20, 2015 5:50 PM  

If there's one "prestige" I don't want, it's the kind conferred by SJWs. I figure I'm safe.

Blogger Blume May 20, 2015 5:53 PM  

Ya, we messed up there. Fables has been fantastic and I think qualifies as fantasy.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 5:54 PM  

"Go for it. It merits it."

It most certainly does.

Were there any puppy recommendations for this category?

Blogger RL (#0052) May 20, 2015 5:55 PM  

The SJWs are very silly rabbits. I look forward to what may come to pass in 2016.

Anonymous the bandit May 20, 2015 5:56 PM  

For the record, Sally is a diminutive of Sarah, and one is used for the character when she is ten years old, the other when she is thirty five.

Ah, that makes sense: Distinguishing between a grown woman and a child would be a distinction without a difference to perverted SJWs.

Anonymous Noah Ward May 20, 2015 5:57 PM  

I'm getting a good feeling about this.
They like me!
They really, really like me!

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 5:58 PM  

"Mr. Wright, did you mean Red Pill? "

Sorry, I get my pills confused. Because DARK CITY was a better film than MATRIX.

Yes, I meant Red Pill.

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P May 20, 2015 6:00 PM  

I stared with the Graphic Story category yesterday, wish I hadnt. Definitely no award territory. Childish for the most part, boring stories and the artwork was largely terrible. Sex Criminals art was probably the best of the lot, but barely scraped in as fantasy with an utterly awful story. Read far more interesting stuff borrowing Manga graphic novels from my kids.

Anonymous Scintan May 20, 2015 6:02 PM  

The SFWA election results are in. Go over to Fill 770 for the results. Stay for the likely ensuing comedy.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:03 PM  

cailcorishev: "When I read stuff like this from SJWs, I often get the impression that they form their paragraphs from authentic paragraph parts, but without much idea how the parts should go together."

It's talking-point headcheese.

Anonymous GreyS May 20, 2015 6:03 PM  

After If You Were A Dinosaur My Love, was lionized its impossible to take any literary criticism by SJWs seriously.

I am reminded of the George Carlin bit about plastic-- Maybe the entire purpose of literature and SF through the centuries has been to get humanity to the point where we produce If You Were A Dinosaur.

Our job is finished. Humanity can exit.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 20, 2015 6:07 PM  

As for graphic novels, can we burn that category down at least?

Schlock Mercenary didn't make the list this year. Whats up with that?

It's always been nominated before.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 20, 2015 6:08 PM  

Sorry, I get my pills confused. Because DARK CITY was a better film than MATRIX.

That film has an amazing synopsis. More things to check out one day.

Blogger JACIII May 20, 2015 6:09 PM  

I pray the sjw's never understand how much win we have garnered thus far, how much win we savor every day at their expense, and how much win there is yet to celebrate.

Daily, sjw tears are transmuted by glorious schadenfreude so that the ilk may receive infusions of Charlie Sheenesque tiger blood.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:13 PM  

DARK CITY also has a young Jennifer Connelly. That's always winning.

Anonymous Randy M May 20, 2015 6:14 PM  

"“Also a woman who is crude inspires contempt, because she has contempt for God and man. The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”
And so on. Bollocks I say"

I'm guessing the author of the "Bullocks" commentary has short, purple hair. And a nose ring.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) May 20, 2015 6:17 PM  

@Cail
When I read stuff like this from SJWs, I often get the impression that they form their paragraphs from authentic paragraph parts, but without much idea how the parts should go together.*

You reminded me of the bit from Gene Wolfe's New Sun books where they have to translate someone speaking entire phrases of Marxist cant as allegory.

on another note....

I find the very high percentage of selfsame SJW's reviewing as dreck the works that crawled up the list due to resignations and disqualifications interesting. Especially their inability to see that if that was the most nominated of the stuff THEY prefer, then maybe the stuff they claim to like is also dreck by their own standards?

(But only puppies are too incompetent to make art...)

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 6:19 PM  

"DARK CITY also has a young Jennifer Connelly."

Pardon me, but I was momentarily overcome by an unsightly attack of fanlust. I must shower and don a hairshirt.

Because not only is the young actress attractive in that film, she is Film Noir attractive, which is the crest and culmination of the decorative arts of hairstyle, makeup and mood when it comes to the female form. Just ask Lauren Becall.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:20 PM  

MidKnight is talking about the Ascians.

Good call.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:21 PM  

MidKnight, are you a member of the Urth.net mailing list?

Blogger Cail Corishev May 20, 2015 6:22 PM  

Turncoat isn't Butcher. its a short story from Riding the Red Horse

Thanks, I got them mixed up.

So, graphic novels: I looked through a couple at the library one day. They're what we used to call comic books, put together in volumes with a nicer cover, right? Am I missing something?

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:28 PM  

John Wright, if I find you're a member of the Urth.net mailing list, I'm going to kick you off, because you should be spending your time writing.

Blogger Marissa May 20, 2015 6:30 PM  

It's weird, like reading something that was written to exercise a translation program rather than to communicate with human beings.

I think it's a mixture of poor sentence structure skills--encouraged by creative writing teachers or professors and long nights on Xanga and Livejournal--and an attempt to be mysterious and prose-poetic. It largely fails to be beautiful, much less comprehensible.

Is the Urth.net mailing list an ongoing thing? I've just finished The Claw of the Conciliator and find some of my search questions end there.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:34 PM  

Marissa, yes, it's ongoing. We're having some severe problems with our host right now, such that the archives are not working.

But the list is active. We're currently discussing some arcane details of Book of the Long Sun.

Sign up here:

http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 May 20, 2015 6:45 PM  

Aaron on May 20, 2015 at 5:30 am said:

The Puppies have already lost. Even if one of their authors wins a Hugo, the Puppies lose, because what none of the Puppies seem to understand is the award doesn’t confer the prestige you all so clearly crave. The prestige has to come first, or the award will be seen as tainted and undeserved.


Sitting around waiting for the SJW's to grant you prestige tokens... that's a long wait for a train that will never come. I'd rather just run them over with the train.

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 6:46 PM  

"John Wright, if I find you're a member of the Urth.net mailing list, I'm going to kick you off, because you should be spending your time writing."

I am not smart enough to be a member of Urth.net. If you guys can figure out what Gene Wolfe's in-jokes and puzzles are, more power to you. The last work of his I actually figured out before the end was THE SORCERER'S HOUSE.

His next book A BORROWED MAN, I have on preorder

Anonymous Steve May 20, 2015 6:47 PM  

Randy M - I'm guessing the author of the "Bullocks" commentary has short, purple hair. And a nose ring.

Eh. Spiritually, maybe.

Meet Hampus Eckerman. (Hampus is the sex-offendery-looking manlet who's barely taller than some Indonesian girls. Fun fact: the average Indonesian woman is under 5 feet tall.)

Hampus is a Swede with a fetish for Islam, feminism and immigration. Like all good SJW Swedes, his micropenis has a weird little hate-boner for Israel. Indeed, "Israel", "Gaza" and "Palestine" feature more often in his tweets and blogs than any other subject.

He describes himself as a "nice guy", but has previously expressed concern that he might be arrested for child pornography.

You may be shocked to hear that Hampus is an atheist, hates sports, and lives alone.

It's almost as if they grow these people in some creepy Jim Hines shaped vat.

Delenda est.

Blogger Harsh May 20, 2015 6:47 PM  

Every Puppy campaign is itself a loss for the Puppies.

And we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Blogger Blume May 20, 2015 6:51 PM  

It was a great movie. Matrix would have been almost as good if 2 and 3 did not exist.

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 6:56 PM  

There were some scenes I like in Matrix 2, such as the fight scene on the freeway, and the duel in the chateau, and the idea of mythical monsters, vampires and werewolves, being the left over code from previous failed computer sims of the world was cool. And I liked seeing Monica Bellucci, but only because lust is one of my besetting and deadly sins. And the Merovingian had a good accent.

So, it is the kind of movie one should watch dubbed in a language one does not speak. Eye candy.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 6:59 PM  

John Wright, have you read Castleview? It's your kind of crazy. And NOBODY understands what's really going on at the end.

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 7:00 PM  

I have read CASTLEVIEW, and it is one of the few Gene Wolfe books I do not like.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:03 PM  

Would another be THERE ARE DOORS?

Blogger IM2L844 May 20, 2015 7:08 PM  

Well, now that we know we are going about courting the Hampus vote all wrong, that changes everything

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 7:25 PM  

"Would another be THERE ARE DOORS?"

That is the other. You can read minds.

Blogger Man. Cla. May 20, 2015 7:25 PM  

They deploy a cunning strategy indeed.

Phase 1:

No Award Everything.

Phase 2:

???????

Phase 3:

Profit!

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 7:26 PM  

While we are at it, how many awards has Gene Wolfe won? I say it is not enough. Next year, we must organize the Puppies for Truth and Penance, and have the puppies for the wolf.

Blogger Phunctor May 20, 2015 7:28 PM  

"That's what happens when you operate on "feelz, not realz".
Most of their stimulus-response network is based on associations and impressions. They are creatures of the propaganda techniques they've been pickled in.
They are pre-Aristotelian savages.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 7:28 PM  

"So, graphic novels: I looked through a couple at the library one day. They're what we used to call comic books, put together in volumes with a nicer cover, right? Am I missing something?"

Yes. What you are remembering as comics actually had stories. This trash doesn't.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:31 PM  

Apparently very few people really like THERE ARE DOORS, except for Gene Wolfe, who has stated it is his favorite of his novels.

I will further attempt mind-reading by guessing that you do value FREE LIVE FREE.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 7:32 PM  

Look at the Graphic Novel category. Its pure refuse. Its ejectus of the worst sort.

this is a great example of what the whole slate of nominations would look like if we pups hadn't have stepped in.

They should be having damn parades in our honor.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 7:33 PM  

"Apparently very few people really like THERE ARE DOORS, except for Gene Wolfe, who has stated it is his favorite of his novels."

its common for an otherwise good author to make such claims about a book that was a total flop.

He's pretending to know something you don't know.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:36 PM  

Nate, unless you've read much Gene Wolfe, you're out of your league here. I know that sounds like typical DISQUALIFY, but I think that's legit in this case.

Wolfe is one of a kind.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:41 PM  

Recommendations for starting on Wolfe:

* If you've read Herodotos: Soldier of the Mist
* If you like short stories: The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories
* If you like being confused: The Fifth Head of Cerberus
* If you're Nate: Starwater Strains

Anonymous Donn #0114 May 20, 2015 7:42 PM  

I grew up loving comic books. When Americans started working in graphic novels I was thrilled. I've looked at the recent stuff and it is crap. Especially the pink stuff. Most of them are terrible on all levels but what I hate most is the sub-jr high level artwork.

My fifth grade niece does better work. Much of the marvel stuff looks like it was drawn from a computer program.

Who says there's no 'message fiction' genre? Perversion is their message and they've hijacked scifi in all its forms to do it.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:45 PM  

I should add that Starwater Strains has at least 4 of my favorite Wolfe stories. I suspect that Nate will like "Viewpoint" and "Try and Kill It" as much as I do.

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 7:47 PM  

"I will further attempt mind-reading by guessing that you do value FREE LIVE FREE."

Now you are beginning to freak me out, Scanner. Because I ran a role playing game based on that book.

The playing characters got to stay for free in a condemend building, and in addition to traveling salesmen, gypsies, and witches, the character from the 'Short Sun' trilogy showed up as a time traveler. It seemed the guys in the High Country were trying to get the map of time from the hobbits in Time Bandit so that they could rescue Doug and Tony from Time Tunnel.

So it was kind of a kitchen sink game, but, yeah, I liked that book I stole my ideas from.

I have not read Gene Wolfe's PEACE, so do not ask. I am reading Tim Powers' DINNER AT DEVIANT'S PALACE right now.

How are you correctly guessing my taste in these things?

I assume you've read my stories and can see what I have stolen from whom or something. I would have gotten away with it, too, if it had not been for you meddling teenagers and your talking dog!

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 7:48 PM  

And I love SOLDIER OF THE MIST, and I know enough Greek to catch the puns and enough Greek history and mythology to recognize people at first glance. I wonder what non-Hellenophiles make of this book.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:50 PM  

"How are you correctly guessing my taste in these things?"

Emulation.

Anonymous JRL May 20, 2015 7:52 PM  

I *wanted* to like "A Single Samurai." I did, really! But, well, yeah. No.

What is it with SJWs and the smug cutsey snark. What makes people talk like that? Is it code? Is it actually seen as clever? It's got to be signalling. It's also got me thinking that if there's a gamma gene, it could be predicted via linguistic testing.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:53 PM  

PEACE is a fascinating book. If you liked Wolfe's use of stories-in-stories in NEW SUN, you'll at least appreciate how he does the same thing in PEACE.

I'd rather re-read the best novellas, though.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 7:55 PM  

"Now you are beginning to freak me out, Scanner. Because I ran a role playing game based on that book."

I don't even have to cranch.

OpenID luagha May 20, 2015 7:56 PM  

On Matrix 2 and 3, it is important to remember that there is a crazy woman in LA who writes basic hero's journey scripts, registers their copyright, and then sues writers/directors for 'copying' her.

Matrix 3 had to be completely rewritten due to her getting a stupid judge who fell for her trick. That's why there is so much setup and lain pipe in Matrix 2 that seems forgotten or stupidly used in Matrix 3.

The death of the original actress of the Oracle from diabetic complications in the filming hiatus between movies just made it worse.

#199

Anonymous Donn #0114 May 20, 2015 7:57 PM  

The one sjw yesterday didn't understand delenda est at all. He thought it meant that we'd _merely_ burndown this years hugos or 'murder' pink scifi to use his term. It means we will so thoroughly smash pink scifi that publishers will not touch it in hazmat suits with tongs. People will forget what it was really like and to most it will be a forgotten fad like pole sitting.

They've helpfully provided the salt and are doing most of the plowing themselves

Anonymous Donn #0114 May 20, 2015 8:02 PM  

John wright did you ever run a game called Tabula Rasa? You're style seems familiar.

Anonymous BGS May 20, 2015 8:03 PM  

Is file 770 letting anyone's comments thru I just looked at 3 pages of comments without a single non SJW/CHORF posting. They can't even understand pointing out hypocrisy (Matt Y on May 20, 2015 at 9:32) couldn't understand VD saying the SJWs are restricting free speech but welcomed known molesters. Thinking that Vox should be supporting molesters free association & speech rights. They hate badthink but are fine with badtouch.

note check if comment allowed BigGaySteve on May 20, 2015 at 4:51 pm

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 20, 2015 8:05 PM  

What is it with SJWs and the smug cutsey snark.

Adolescent mind. Don't you know they're, like, really cool and hip?

Anonymous Quartermaster May 20, 2015 8:41 PM  

Those people are such morons. They simply have no idea what conservatives are, or what you guys are fighting for.

They are a bunch of narcissists, and like thieves think everyone else is a thief, they think everyone else is just like them, a self centered idiot.

Blogger Krul May 20, 2015 8:49 PM  

So, Nate, did Bruce Baugh ever get around to explaining your principles to you? I'll bet that was... amusing.

Blogger grendel May 20, 2015 8:49 PM  

[b]I *wanted* to like "A Single Samurai." I did, really! But, well, yeah. No.

What is it with SJWs and the smug cutsey snark. What makes people talk like that? Is it code? Is it actually seen as clever? It's got to be signalling. It's also got me thinking that if there's a gamma gene, it could be predicted via linguistic testing.[/b]

Juvenile minds, yes, also cargo cultism. They've seen sarcasm without comprehending it, so when they try to be witty they end up with this twisted metal modern art piece that looks like someone welded half a lawnmower to a refrigerator sideways, consisting of memespeak, junior high insults and rabbit signaling.

Anonymous pseudotsuga May 20, 2015 8:50 PM  

It is too bad that the graphic novel "Stand Still Stay Silent" isn't on the ballot. It leans a bit pink, but the artwork is very good.

Anonymous JRL May 20, 2015 8:59 PM  

I have to back off the statement a little bit...I hadn't considered some of them may actually be in their teens. That would be a bit more understandable...but still annoying.

I want to know if they also say "I know, right?" on a regular basis.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 20, 2015 9:10 PM  

It is too bad that the graphic novel "Stand Still Stay Silent" isn't on the ballot. It leans a bit pink, but the artwork is very good.

I would definitely vote for that. Androgynous characters aside, there's interesting world building. It's well crafted.

What I've skimmed of the existing slate was not gripping. Depicting female characters giving people the finger may have been shocking, but it is not interesting.

Blogger Xmas May 20, 2015 9:19 PM  

Cail,

Yes, graphic novels used to be simple compendiums of comics. But there are some interesting graphic novels out there, if you find it in the library Guy Delisle's "Pyongyang" travelogue is one hell of a read.

Blogger Matt #0083 May 20, 2015 9:29 PM  

(Slightly) off-topic: Marsden is commenting over at Brad Torgerson's site and took our Evil Overlord's name in vain. Vox, I don't know what the details of your resolution of that situation are, but I suspect he is violating the agreement.

I want to know if they also say "I know, right?" on a regular basis.
Yes. Adult speech patterns arrive with maturity. Maturity comes via a long continuous process of absorbing data that is in conflict with ones beliefs and then adjusting those beliefs to conform to the data. When your belief system constantly routes around uncomfortable facts to preserve the FeelGoods, maturity is delayed indefinitely.

Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 9:30 PM  

"I don't even have to cranch."

You are too well read for me! I mean the scanners from the movie who read minds and make your heads explode, not the Haberman overseers.

But cool that you knew that. Cordwainer Smith is something of an idol with me: like Wolfe, a unique voice, unmistakable.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) May 20, 2015 9:31 PM  

@ automatthew
MidKnight, are you a member of the Urth.net mailing list?

No. Sounds like I should be. I'm about 2/3 of the way through the long sun series, though it's been slow going as it's mostly on my nightstand, been doing a log of other reading in ebooks.

Also have the Shadow and Claw compilation right under it to restart that.

Amended - I've registered....



In other news - I looked through the Graphic novel stuff last night (just got back from a trip) and.... was underwhelmed.

Let's leave aside the over-the - top boorishness (even for stereotypically "male jerk" characters) of Rat Queens, the plot doesn't make sense in the medieval setting and who transported a set of rebellious teenage girls from berkley into a S&S setting?

Every single one just reeks of self-satisfied signaling and posing. Saga is soo determined to make point of diversity being a good thing. Sex Criminals took what could have been an interesting concept - the ability to freeze time - and turned it into an angst-filled romp that made sex depressing. Marvel girl is washed out and full of PC to a statistically unlikely degree. Saga at least had pleasant artwork that fit its tone, even if it didn't blow me away.

Speaking of artwork, I remember image in the early SPAWN days of image - the artwork blew me away at the time. The Rat Queens and Sex Criminals books had an art style that was muddled, full of heavy lines, and just ugly/messy. NOT a worthy successor to the house that brought us some truly amazing stuff. Ms. Marvel was washed out with little contrast (and having been in NY recently, washed out does NOT describe the look there...)



Blogger John Wright May 20, 2015 9:33 PM  

"John wright did you ever run a game called Tabula Rasa? You're style seems familiar."

I always make up my own dice mechanics system for whatever game I run. It started when I was a poor student, too meager to buy a boxed game, and then I just kept it up.

For my Amber meets Tanelorn meets Tolkien game, I used a variation on the Chaosium dice mechanics from Runequest. They are simple and intuitive. Everyone knows what 55% chance means, not everyone knows what rolling an eight or better on four dice six subtract the lowest die means.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 20, 2015 9:34 PM  

I have to back off the statement a little bit...I hadn't considered some of them may actually be in their teens. That would be a bit more understandable...but still annoying.

I meant it less literally. Grown "men", thinking and speaking like teenagers.

Blogger Matt #0083 May 20, 2015 9:37 PM  

Puppies for Truth and Penance

Please tell me they appear in Somewhither!

Blogger grendel May 20, 2015 9:40 PM  

Heck, I work with a 50yo woman who used the expression "?????? Right?" in a work email.

Anonymous Aeoli May 20, 2015 9:44 PM  

Disagree. There is nothing about SSSS that leans pink. Please explain.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 9:56 PM  

"Cordwainer Smith is something of an idol with me: like Wolfe, a unique voice, unmistakable."

It is not a coincidence that they both serve/d the same Lord.

Anonymous Cynic In Chief May 20, 2015 9:58 PM  

This is turning out to be fun. Reviewing interesting books, hanging out with John C Wright, and watching SJW heads explode. Maybe if the puppies win some, we'll get to watch Scalzi-level fireworks.

I've always been reading science fiction (two of the top three books that have dramatically changed the way I think are science fiction), but I've always gone deep (i.e. reading all of Stephenson's books) instead of wide. I'm going to have to spend more time reading instead of playing video games to catch up.

BTW John, One Bright Star to Guide Them was excellent. The Parliament of Beasts and Birds was interesting, but I had to rank On a Spiritual Plane and Turncoat higher.

OpenID malcolmthecynic May 20, 2015 9:58 PM  

Look, if you doubted that what the Puppies claimed was true, read the graphic novels, one of the only non-puppy touched categories.

Miss Marvel was the best one.

It is TERRIBLE.

Terr. Ib. Le.

If you still have doubts, read what the SJWs are claiming about Wright's work.

Then read Wright's work.

If you STILL have doubts after all of that, you're an SJW yourself. And therefore lying.

Blogger automatthew 0x3e May 20, 2015 10:02 PM  

MidKnight, LONG SUN is hard going. I like having read it, but I don't always like reading it. SHORT SUN is amazing.

Anonymous Daniel #0189 May 20, 2015 10:03 PM  

You are awesome, mtc. And correct. Well put.

Anonymous Daniel #0189 May 20, 2015 10:07 PM  

Is Miss Marvel the one about the Islamic superheroine who really likes bacon? Or the goddess of Thunder who is worthy of her banhammer vs. misogyny? Or the bisexual children's icon catlady? I can't keep all of these super super superpopular yet windbreaking comics straight. Er, groundbreaking.

Anonymous Viidad May 20, 2015 10:09 PM  

@ John C. Wright

Gotta tell you - I'm on book 4 of Count To a Trillion right now.

Brilliant. The rise and fall of various cultures, the crazy math, the characters... it's insane and wonderful. Don't want it to end.

Thank you.

Blogger jayb May 20, 2015 10:19 PM  

@VD
Go for it. It merits it.

Don't tell me what to do! You're not the boss of me!

Out of curiosity, I noticed you've gone from posting as 'VD', recently to 'Vox' and now back to 'VD'. Any reason beyond the mundane?

#0112 (missed out on eleventy-one)

Blogger automatth0x3e May 20, 2015 10:23 PM  

jayb,

That's a long-established pattern. One means he's signed in to his main Blogger account, the other not.

Anonymous Viidad May 20, 2015 10:25 PM  

@ jayb

Sometimes Vox has difficulty holding his form due to his uploaded gestalt intelligence. The glitches are normal when reaching into this plain.

Anonymous Viidad May 20, 2015 10:26 PM  

@ automatth0x3e

Your explanation is really, really boring.

Blogger automatth0x3e May 20, 2015 10:39 PM  

I serve to live.

Blogger Durandel Almiras May 20, 2015 10:44 PM  

OT - Not sure if Vox will see this, but to the Ilk, I heard a song on the radio today by comedian Trevor Moore. It's titled "Bullies" and apparently he's going to film the music video soon. Anyway, it mocks much of the SJW movement. Thought I'd share the lyrics and have everyone on the look out. Gotta love using art to mock these twits. The song itself is all right, has a slow start and a lame chorus, but the second half of the lyrics really nail it on the head.


I saw a story about a girl not even 20 yet
She was bullied by some trolls just for being different
And as I read I wondered how much further we'd be along
If all society's bullies just disappeared and were gone
It's not okay to say that someone is different from us all
Assuming we are right and big, and that they are wrong and small
There's no excuse to make this poor girl feel she's off the plan
Even if she self-identifies as a... wolf?

Are you f***ing kidding me? A g*ddamn wolf?
That's what the stupid kid thinks she is?
Thank God I kept on reading
Can't believe I almost retweeted this
You're not a martyr or a victim, just an attention whore
Making a mockery of legit social movements from before
You're literally crying wolf while kids out there are being disowned for being gay
So claim discrimination 'cause you know damn well it's not the same
In fact, I take back what I said! Who knows where we would be today
Or what other crap these coddled kids would come up with if the bullies go away

If the bullies go away (x3)
Life is an ecosystem, at least that's what they say
You've gotta think about what happens
When you take one piece away
If the bullies go away (x3)

Life is an ecosystem, at least that's what they say
You've gotta think about what happens when you take one piece away
And when we crack down on the bullies, perhaps we just went too far
'cause with nothing but encouragement, these kids don't even know what they are
That one thinks that she's a vampire, this one thinks that he's a wolf
This one's got a pony toy and jerking off onto its hoof
This one bought a pillow printed with an anime cartoon
He's bringing it to family functions saying that it's his waifu
This one self-identifies as the planet Mercury
She's a genderfluid otherkin who's proud that she's obese
Reality's a trigger word, so we're quickly losing touch
We need some kids to have the balls to say you all are f***ing nuts
Look, you're not an animal no matter how you f***ing feel
Vampires and werewolves are not even f***ing real
Bullies, you need to right this ship, put us back on proper course
You need to come back and restore some balance to the force
That's a Star Wars quote I used, please make fun of me for that
Say my songs are never funny, and I'm looking old and fat
You still got it all within you, you just have to believe
So dust yourself off, get on out there, and go give some kids swirlies
Shove 'em into lockers, give 'em wedgies, you do what you do
Haters gonna hate and for that we depend on you
Our skin is getting thinner each and every single day
And there will be nobody left to guide us back if all the bullies go away

If the bullies go away (x3)
Life is an ecosystem, at least that's what they say
You've gotta think about what happens
When you take one piece away
If the bullies go away (x3)

(That's right, bullies
Never stop believin in yourself
Don't let anybody try and change who you are
You are necessary
You matter
So the next time someone tells you not to make fun of someone that's being a total weirdo
Just think of this song)


I wonder what made him choose "wolf" as the animal, considering the r/K theory that gets mentioned around these parts.

Anonymous Daniel #0189 May 20, 2015 10:48 PM  

When do the SJWs review the short bus?

"Wow. The bus driver is an old white man. How totally unfair. The epileptic Asian kid should get a turn...that's me! I don't have my license yet but I skimmed the manual, and let me just say, it sucked. Gimme the wheel!"

"Man, if we can just get this bus to crash and explode, that will totally prove that our oppressors from that other school didn't win the football game last week."

"This bus is worthless! I mean, if you care about combustion engines and stuff like a nerd, maybe...but, whoosh, this thing goes right over my head. It isn't like I need it to get home. I could walk. Really. Probably. It's just that, you know. My knees aren't that great."

"How come I'm sitting with all these retarded kids?"

These are, of course, excerpts. The full posts would be much much longer.

Blogger Durandel Almiras May 20, 2015 10:52 PM  

As to the post, this isn't anything new. I swear their critques most be templated, like an ad lib.

1. Write how the work made you ill/knocked you out/vomit/bored you beyond belief/etc. because of your weak constitution.
2. Find some inconsequential error and mangle it into being about xxx-ism.
3. Not offer any real critique. Just mention the bad think.
4. Write in a smug tone, even though your comment was vacuous hyperbole.

Anyone neutral has to at this point notice how obvious and unoriginal this stuff is.

Blogger Michael Maier May 20, 2015 11:07 PM  

Well GRAPHIC NOVELS are getting Noah Ward from me too... what utter shite.

Blogger Michael Maier May 20, 2015 11:10 PM  

And Fan Artist too.

Anonymous Nathan May 20, 2015 11:14 PM  

@Durandel,

Why a wolf? Because there are people(?) who claim to be wolf-kin. Because there's some female in Texas who claimed to be a wolf and claimed to cut off the head of a dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1GbBhu9hA

Anonymous Red Comet May 20, 2015 11:15 PM  

The graphics novel category is full of the biggest SJW pandering books:

-Ms. Marvel panders to Muslim immigration/invasion and is written by a white woman who appears to believe her conversion to Islam gives her non-white cred.
-Rat Queens panders to feminism despite being drawn by a wife beater.
-Saga is another case of a romance disguised as science fiction.
-Sex Criminals is yet another self-insert story by writer Matt Fraction, except this time around he also inserts his wife as the girlfriend. The characters are also drawn to look like them in case it wasn't getting weird enough yet.

The real best graphic novel of 2014 was Grant Morrison's Multiversity for DC comics, particularly the Pax Americana chapter drawn by Frank Quitely.

Anonymous JRL May 20, 2015 11:15 PM  

If you STILL have doubts after all of that, you're an SJW yourself. And therefore lying.

Ha! Q.E.D.

Blogger Student in Blue May 20, 2015 11:16 PM  

@Durandel

Rather, furries seem to have a... well, hard-on for wolves and foxes. By that I mean, whenever I had the displeasure to run into them, the vast majority of them claimed to be wolves or foxes.

Blogger Nate May 20, 2015 11:18 PM  

Actually i've read 3 or 4 books by wolfe... don't recall the titles... to be honest none made much of an impression on me.

That always surprises people.

Blogger automatth0x3e May 20, 2015 11:32 PM  

Nate, maybe try it this way...

John C. Wright is the Mozart of SF. "Too many notes." He throws out SF ideas like Mozart threw out melodies. Others might accuse him of producing light entertainment.

Gene Wolfe is the Bach of SF. He takes simple ideas and contrapunctally runs them into the ground.

There's no shame in not enjoying Bach. But be wary of dismissing him.

Anonymous JRL May 21, 2015 12:12 AM  

Rabid Puppies theme song

Blogger John Wright May 21, 2015 12:17 AM  

@ Viidad

"Brilliant. The rise and fall of various cultures, the crazy math, the characters... it's insane and wonderful. Don't want it to end. Thank you."

You honor me. I am your servant.

I destroy the universe at the end of book six, so there is no real room for a sequel. All good things must end.

Blogger automatth62 May 21, 2015 12:21 AM  

"I destroy the universe at the end of book six, so there is no real room for a sequel. All good things must end."

Said the guy who wrote a sequel to van Vogt.

Blogger John Wright May 21, 2015 12:26 AM  

"Said the guy who wrote a sequel to van Vogt."

Touche! I concede the point.

After all, when two multiverses collide, causing heaven, purgatory, hell, nirvana, and all souls trapped on the wheel of reincarnation, not to mention all time travelers, explode outward into the chaos from which new universes are made, so that each soul finds the power to make his own planet and continuum, there is always a way to work one more story in.

Anonymous pseudotsuga* May 21, 2015 12:44 AM  

Aeoli: ,Disagree. There is nothing about SSSS that leans pink. Please explain.
I will try to explain what I mean. (Also, I think it is a very slight lean, not a hard lean.)
1) the main characters seem, in some ways, to be gathered together because GENDER EQUALITY rather than for merit. If these people are going outside the wire into the horribly dangerous environment, why is the Finnish girl driver part of the group? She has a wanderlust--sure, but those who bankrolled this expedition take a horrible risk of her dying (immunity problems, no military experience, etc.)
2) The artist clearly has a "mary sue" thing for cats.
3) The androgyny of the characters. Yes, it's an artistic choice, but I think it's a slightly pinkish choice.
Those are the things that tinge the work slightly pinkish to me. It's still surprisingly blue, given that the artist is from Finland (and Sweden also, arguably). I don't see a lot of Scandi-socialism leaking into the story.
But her artwork is very good. She has a very strong, Northern-themed style that resonates with the world of the Norse.
She has much more of the high saga in her work, without the coarse modernity of "Sex Magic, or the coarse fantasy of "Rat Queens." Those graphic novels are basically one-liners, extended out and out and out. "Rat Queens" has some strong art in it, but I would have a hard time recommending it as high quality, award winning work that should inspire greatness. "SSSS" does that--it's "high fantasy" in the sense that Tolkien meant it. "Rat Queens," "Sex Magic" and "Ms Muslim...err, Marvel" are low fantasy. The "Marvel" thing wallows in self-awareness--"ooh look! I'm edgy: I'm using a MUSLIM superheroine! Take that, Christian phobic dudes!" And the story suffers from the teen angst that Marvel developed from Spider Man on. Most of the story is "oh, poor me...poor me!" and then a bit of "If You Had Big Hands, My Love...." Perhaps if the ratio were reversed, so that story superseded the pleas for sympathy, it would be less obnoxious. In other words a Superhero who happens to be Muslim, rather than a MUSLIM who happens to kind of be a superhero, too.

Blogger cavalier973 May 21, 2015 1:38 AM  

2d6+6 is my preferred method, if one wanted to roll stats. Arrays are superior, in my opinion.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit May 21, 2015 1:41 AM  

SJWs finally recognize the undeniability of what the Puppies are saying. Therefore it becomes their narrative and if they don't mention the florescent supertanker making a 180° turn under everyones' noses then maybe nobody will notice. Pathetic. Worse than pathetic.

Disingenuous, immature, unprincipled cowards who respect nothing, not the truth not themselves, and take no reponsibiity for their words and actions. Their lives are piss-stained travesties lived in fear of exclusion from the winning side of right thinkers (i.e. those propagating the MSM narratives).

These people are retarded parrots looking to see what everyone else is squarking so they can join in the chorus. God save us from their idiocy.

I think they are unintentionally right: they have to explain the otherside's behavior to them. That's because they always eventually end up adopt it once they can no longer snark, slander or squee the truth away. Then they must lecture us about how right they are this time.

It is truly a mark of the success of our forebears and the patriarchy that they built that so many of these retards can flourish on the excess productivity of the normal people.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) May 21, 2015 1:42 AM  

@ automatthew

Yeah, it's not the easiest book to read. That said, Silk is an interesting take on a catholic priest.

As to what I meant by ugliness. No, I wasn't the comic fanboy that many who dub themselves are, but I am certainly aware enough of good art when I complain that Ms. Marvel is washed out and blah storytelling, Saga the only one approaching good artistic line and aesthetic, and the lines and clutter of the two Image works just appealing. As boorish as Rat Queens is, it may have the strongest story that isn't depressing dreck.

What standards do I hold the art and story against?

Gary "Far Side" Larson, who's simple doodles nevertheless perfectly fit the tone of the weird. Watterson's "Calvin and Hobbes". As ugly as Frank Miller's "Dark Knight" could be, it also was clear, and fit the story. His work in Batman: Year one was fantastic. Sergio Aragones could be on the more doodl-ey side, but could evoke magic with his fantastically complex scribbles, and "The Death of Groo the Wanderer" is still a favorite of mine. Phil Foglio, and his many works, including the illustrations for the Robert Aspirin "Myth" Books, and Girl Genius.

Also, a great example of art complex or simple as needed, with a great story, was the collected "Mage - the Hero Discovered" by Matt Wagner (I just found out that a sequel to it had finally been published nearly ten years later....)

Not a single work up for consideration this year comes close to these works in fitting art and style to purpose, or complexity of character.

OpenID malcolmthecynic May 21, 2015 1:44 AM  

BTW - I'm in between "Totaled" and "Parliament" for my short story pick.

"Turncoat" I would have liked more if the twist wasn't the title. TERRIBLE title. Like naming "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd" "The Narrator Who Kills".

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit May 21, 2015 2:37 AM  

There's a sequel to Mage? :::::sqeueeeeeeeee::::

Anyhow. IIRC SSSS was still ongoing this year so we should be able to nominate it for Hugo 2016. Considering how bottom-of-the-barrel were the Expeditions choices, the "slightly pink" girl character is actually slightly blue: she exemplifies how desperate the organizers were. And as post-apocalyptic tale, it's more truly SF than most superhero comics.

Nothing exemplifies how clueless the Worldcon CHORFS have become than the last several years' winners. We are living in a golden age of graphic novel / "comic book" storytelling and these chumps are blind to any of it that doesn't fit the current political snit they want to throw.

Check out Delilah Dirk, Zita the Space Girl, Drive, Attack on Titan, anything by Kazu Kibuishi... go Indy, ditch the moribund hacks at DC/Marvel & their clones and enjoy!

Blogger John Wright May 21, 2015 2:46 AM  

"There's a sequel to Mage? :::::sqeueeeeeeeee::::"

In my humble opinion, the sequel was simple not as good as Matt Wagner's original masterpiece, so don't get your hopes up. It had some clever ideas, but...

Well, your mileage may vary.

Blogger jayb May 21, 2015 5:57 AM  

@automatth0x3e
@Viidad

Oh, I know. But it's usually brief. This time the posts as 'Vox' were sustained for quite a while.
I care because it's much easier to search for 'VD' than 'Vox'. That 10 seconds of extra search time per post is valuable.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 21, 2015 6:34 AM  

SJWs finally recognize the undeniability of what the Puppies are saying. Therefore it becomes their narrative and if they don't mention the florescent supertanker making a 180° turn under everyones' noses then maybe nobody will notice.

Yes, you have to watch for the switch. One of the excellent lessons of Atlas Shrugged is how the looters will change policy positions on a dime, in lockstep, without apology or explanation. They spend the first act trying to destroy Rearden and prevent him from selling his metal, then when he proves its worth, they immediately switch to demanding more of it and accusing him of hoarding it. They never once explain this switch, or even acknowledge it. And they get away with it, over and over, because every time the heroes think, "Well, that's annoying, but at least they're becoming sensible, so I'll let it go."

But they aren't becoming sensible; they're just regrouping for the next attack, and pretending to be sensible so the good guys won't counter-attack while they're vulnerable. Which means it's the best time: kick them while they're down.

Blogger Nate May 21, 2015 7:15 AM  

"There's a sequel to Mage? :::::sqeueeeeeeeee::::"

WHOA.

Stop that.

We don't squee here. Ever.

Blogger Darth Toolpodicus (#144) May 21, 2015 8:27 AM  

“We’ll be doing it again in 2016… and it won’t be gentle like this time.

Jim Hines just squee'd his panties”

“It's almost as if they grow these people in some creepy Jim Hines shaped vat.”

I needed that laugh today...I just didn't need the coffee sprayed on my monitor / desk in front of me.

Anonymous VFM.0157 aka Forrest Bishop May 21, 2015 8:32 AM  

I *wanted* to like "A Single Samurai." I did, really! But, well, yeah. No.

What is it with SJWs and the smug cutsey snark. What makes people talk like that? Is it code? Is it actually seen as clever? It's got to be signalling. It's also got me thinking that if there's a gamma gene, it could be predicted via linguistic testing. -JRL May 20, 2015 7:52 PM

There. Yes. It should be possible to construct an SJW sim similar to the "Defenders of the Faith" AI program described below.

(My background consists in part of years and years, thousands of emails, discussing things like "The Catt Question" with the likes of Brian Josephson, Geoff Landis, Lord Rees, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPBOilLFiG8
http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_6704.pdf

from the paper- "Defenders of the Faith"
"For one example, “Magic 8 Ball Replies” is named after the old toy that displays a random
and obviously thoughtless response to any question posed to it. Some of its 20 possible answers are “Concentrate and ask again”, “My sources say no”,
and “It is decidedly so”, answers remarkably similar to some of the more polite responses to things like “The Catt Question”,
described elsewhere in these Proceedings.
Feynman concludes his discussion on the waveguide with “There are many ways of looking at the same thing”
[6], an excellent example of the genre. A subroutine in “Defenders of the Faith” would emulate the Magic 8 Ball with a lookup table consisting of character strings
and a random-number generator for the address pointer.
The reserved-word linguistics sketched out above can be used to fill out a different table for a sentence generator. More elabo-
rate responses also follow very specific, context-sensitive patterns, in many cases almost as if they were cut and pasted from
some master document. Manually typing in combination terms like “relativity crackpot” or “evolution nutball” can turn up a
wealth of data relevant to the “Science of Defamation”, useful as program algorithms.
Many of the defamations are so stock that the program merely has to insert keywords from the jargon of the subject under
discussion into pre-assembled sentences. A program such as “Defenders of the Faith” might even be able to ‘supersede’ the
Turing Test, in that the combinatory possibilities opened up by the processing power may lead to new forms of defamation that
a government-school victim would not have thought of..."

Blogger John Wright May 21, 2015 9:23 AM  

@ Matt #0083
"Please tell me they appear in Somewhither!"

Sorry, no puppies in SOMEWHITHER. However, my hero is a Catholic boy in his late teens, who is somewhat bewildered to discover that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the Inquisition) is still operating out of their offices in Rome (which is true in real life) and has control of the Ark of the Covenant, which they let the order of Poor Fellow Soliders of the Knights of the Temple of Jerusalem (the Templars) use to cross the twilight areas between parallel timelines (that is totally make believe, so that I could have the Tower of Babel be the bad guys, in the version of Earth were that tower never fell, and there is still one language, one people, and nothing they attempt is denied to them).

So, Templars are in the book, Inquisitioners are in the book, evil Astrologers are in the book, but no puppy torturers guild members, not even Triskele (Sevarians dog) are in the book.

Blogger Brad Andrews May 21, 2015 9:24 AM  

Sally is a diminutive of Sarah

I did not know this. I had no idea what Sally was short for though for that matter and I am not sure I have had anyone with either name in my close circles at all. Kind of surprising given it isn't that rare. My own name is almost certainly rarer, but whatever. Thanks for that detail.

====

I will be voting No Award for the graphic novels. All 4 samples were downright nasty. I normally can finish just about anything, but those are supposed to be science fiction? The Ms. Marvel one was the closest and I was not impressed with its style, dialog or such. It was worse than the homosexual crud shoved in the Scarlet Witch-related story line of another graphic novel I had paid for a while back.

I couldn't stomach reading any of them all the way through.

What does being a sex criminal have to do with science fiction anyway? I guess it was the magic vibrator I think I read when quickly skimming it after I gave up.

That work might fit an award in another area, but that is not science fiction or fantasy in the sense I thought those terms covered.

Anonymous Daniel #0189 May 21, 2015 9:44 AM  

What does being a sex criminal have to do with science fiction anyway?

Nothing. However, SF fandom has been a haven for MZB, Ed Kramer, Ed Breen, Chip Delany, Isaac Asimov and numerous other accused sex offenders for 60 years now...so there is that.

Blogger Good Will May 21, 2015 10:29 AM  

Wright is as horrible as usual in his Transhuman and Subhuman:

“The female spirit is wise rather than cunning, deep in understanding rather than adroit in deductive logic, gentle and supportive rather than boastful and self-aggrandizing.”

“Contrariwise, when women in the kitchen or the nursery use the name of the Lord in vain, and the children they are nursing and teaching hear them, the vulgarity has the negative effect of deadening the emotions of the youngsters and making them vulgar and indifferent to vulgarity.”

“Also a woman who is crude inspires contempt, because she has contempt for God and man. The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”
And so on. Bollocks I say.


Wright effectively articulates here a truth I discerned when my wife, in front of our children, used just such a vulgarity. Swearing diminished, not increased her. It weakened her, not empowered her.

When a man who routinely doesn't swear uses a "choice" word or two, it seems to have the opposite effect, demonstrating his power (or his willingness to flaunt the feeble powers that be that hold him back and down). It inspires fear, at a visceral level, in the minds and hearts of those who hear him, or it cheers them on to say "Right on! That's the God's-honest-truth!"

But for a women, it is weakness, crudeness, a loss of her glory, as would be the shearing of her hair.

Wright's observation here makes me want to read his work.

Anonymous Joe May 21, 2015 10:47 AM  

Zombie Nation: Reduce, Reuse, Reanimate was on the RP slate. It is not included in the Voter's Packet. It is available as a webcomic, but thus far I haven't been able to figure out which strip begins the collection and Carter Reid (the writer / artist) didn't seem to know.

Blogger Dystopic May 21, 2015 11:18 AM  

I suppose the SJW folks think that if they keep repeating themselves, their wish will come true. Their capacity to rationalize victory from devastating defeat is truly remarkable.

It's like Ramesses II and the Battle of Kadesh. You can carve bullshit on the temple walls all day, but it doesn't change the truth.

Anonymous Ain May 21, 2015 11:22 AM  

"Nate’s monologue reminds me of the thing that really chafes me about a lot of noisy, disruptive modern conservatives: how much time the rest of us end up explaining their own principles to them. "


So it isn't just an act of willful obfuscation; they really are as stupid as they seem to be.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy May 21, 2015 11:48 AM  

I didn't remember ‘The Hot Equations’ saying nearly as much about weapons as it did about propulsion, power supplies, and sensors, so I re-read it. Indeed it does focus on the latter, not on weapons.

Also:

* Where are those many other better-done essays on the scientific method than ‘Why Science Is Never Settled’? I would like to read one of them.

* There were only four stories in the John C. Wright collection (and an essay on how to write more stories). Where can I find that fifth story that GSLamb is talking about? I want it! ;)

Blogger James Dixon May 21, 2015 11:49 AM  

> Who says there's no 'message fiction' genre?

That would be "Joe Author", I believe.

> It is too bad that the graphic novel "Stand Still Stay Silent" isn't on the ballot. It leans a bit pink, but the artwork is very good.

I'd say pretty good, not very good, but otherwise I have to agree. Though I personally like Gaia better.

Blogger Marissa May 21, 2015 3:30 PM  

Sex Criminals is yet another self-insert story by writer Matt Fraction, except this time around he also inserts his wife as the girlfriend. The characters are also drawn to look like them in case it wasn't getting weird enough yet.

Why is this a thing? There's a graphic novel called Titanium Rain that would be interesting if the SJW husband-wife team who wrote and "drew" it weren't such ridiculous white liberals. They are two of the main characters - the art is computer-generated and thus the characters look exactly like them. Which means, for some reason, that short, fat, pasty white dude is head pilot of an experimental government program.

Anonymous Red Comet May 22, 2015 5:25 PM  

To be fair, it’s not really that common in comics…I’ve only seen self-insert stories where the characters were made to literally look like the creators a handful of times. That said, I also realized the creators of Titanium Rain were using themselves for photo reference when I kept wondering why the government would allow their pilots to get that chubby.

Most modern comic writers fail at self-insert stories because they’re all sarcastic hipsters living in whitopias like Portland. Older creators had a great deal more life experience to bring to the page.

Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and other men of their generation tended to be World War II vets. Jim Starlin flew helicopters for the Navy before he moved to New York and turned his 70s acid trip lifestyle into Marvel’s famous cosmic stories involving Adam Warlock and Thanos (soon to be the central villain of their multi-billion dollar movie franchise). Larry Hama was a Vietnam vet that brought his experiences to the best-selling G.I. Joe comic book.

Vox illustrated the self-insert problem pretty well in one of his old Rules of Writing posts.

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