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Tuesday, May 26, 2015

Vox's First Law at work

Vox's First Law: Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from insanity. Or, in this case, autism:
State therapy specialists claimed Jacob Barnett would never tie his shoes, read or function normally in society. But the boy’s mother realized when Jacob was not in therapy, he was doing “spectacular things” completely on his own.

She decided to trust her instinct and disregard the advice of the professionals. Instead of following a standardized special needs educational protocol, she surrounded Jacob with all the things that inspired passion for him – and was astonished at the transformation that took place.

Following a diagnosis of autism at age two, Jacob was subjected to a cookie cutter special education system that focused on correcting what he couldn’t do compared to normal children. For years, teachers attempted to convince Kristine Barnett that her son would only be able to learn the most basic of life skills....

By the time Jacob reached the age of 11, he entered college and is currently studying condensed matter physics at Indiana University-Purdue University in Indianapolis. According to an email Professor Scott Tremaine wrote to Jacob’s family:
“The theory that he’s working on involves several of the toughest problems in astrophysics and theoretical physics … Anyone who solves these will be in line for a Nobel Prize.”
Jacob also has an IQ of 170 — higher than that of Einstein.
This is an object lesson in what we discussed at the May Brainstorm. Never, ever, blindly trust the so-called experts. Respect, but verify.

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166 Comments:

Blogger David-093 May 26, 2015 1:12 PM  

"“The theory that he’s working on involves several of the toughest problems in astrophysics and theoretical physics … Anyone who solves these will be in line for a Nobel Prize.”"

That's great and all but does he support gay marriage?

Anonymous Beau May 26, 2015 1:14 PM  

Excellent post. I'll show this to Scipio.

Anonymous Leonidas May 26, 2015 1:15 PM  

Any word on when the transcripts are getting mailed out for those of us who missed it?

Blogger grendel May 26, 2015 1:15 PM  

Homeschool or let the state try to kill your child's mind...Unfortunately I'm sure the "Experts" in question are too smug to learn anything from this.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling May 26, 2015 1:17 PM  

David-093: If Official Academic Scientists in the US are allowing him to collaborate with them, by definition he's at least willing to mouth the required platitudes towards gay marriage and all that. As far as I can tell, from all the reports I get, there is no room in that community for people who don't.

Anonymous Edjamacator May 26, 2015 1:17 PM  

Yeah, but is he socialized? I mean, let's focus on what's important here.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 26, 2015 1:18 PM  

Huh, turns out I was completely wrong about the general dysfunction thing in a previous thread. Should amend that to apply only to dysfunctional cases with deficits and no corresponding benefits.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 26, 2015 1:18 PM  

I'm just glad the vaccines didn't mess him up permanently.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 26, 2015 1:21 PM  

"That's great and all but does he support gay marriage? "

I am more interested in his thoughts on gay alimony.

Jacob also has an IQ of 170 — higher than that of Einstein.

That's great but what if he notices demographic differences in crime? Mainstream media will cover a 95IQ black accepted to every ivy league university but not MIT but would never cover this.

Blogger VFM 188* May 26, 2015 1:29 PM  

Yet another example of male, patriarchal, white privilege. He didn't build that.

Anonymous Sam the Man May 26, 2015 1:31 PM  

My brother got a PHD from Princeton NJ in Plasma Physics. Works in the field to this day. He learned to read without any parental help at 4 years of age. When he was in 3rd grade the school tried to tell my parents that he was a retard (literally as in definition of such).
That would have been back around 1966, so this is not a new problem.

What I have noted with intelligent kids is they seem to develop later in some respects, most of the parent s I know that have had late talking children end up with very bright little tots.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 26, 2015 1:32 PM  

I posted before about a new book out claiming autism is linked to overuse of fetal ultrasound. Based on studies in China where socialized medicine has limited unequal availability of this common device. Grandparents had x-rays machines to see if shoes fit to put risk vs benefit into perspective. . http://gizmodo.com/the-insane-cancer-machines-that-used-to-live-in-shoe-st-789073694
http://www.whale.to/c/50_human_studies.html
http://www.amazon.com/Studies-Conducted-Indicate-Prenatal-Ultrasound-ebook/dp/B00X06QDYS/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432228674&sr=1-1&keywords=jim+west

Anonymous Beau May 26, 2015 1:41 PM  

Why would someone expect a system designed to control and throttle the mind into obedience of the state to produce exceptional individual talents as created by God?

Blogger Profit May 26, 2015 1:50 PM  

I've been wondering for years how many boys have been ruined by the foolish "Professionals" and their drug regime. Though this Boy is a very rare gem, how many creative and passionate boys will not develop due to being drugged-to-oblivion because Mama and SJW-teacher can't deal with a creative boy?

Blogger CarpeOro May 26, 2015 1:55 PM  

A two year old nephew of my wife showed some indication of not liking loud sounds, his grandmother started talking about him being autistic. He is able to talk far better than his cousin, a spoiled little girl two year old who you can barely understand. Haven't heard the concern that she may be autistic yet. Just that no one wants to watch her for the parents.

Anonymous Miss Brickwall May 26, 2015 1:57 PM  

Better fix that hole in the net before another one slips through.

Blogger RobertT May 26, 2015 2:04 PM  

Respect, but verify.

Well ... verify at least. I've noticed people respect me a hell of a lot more when they've seen me perform. I see no reason to turn that around just because someone has a credential. I've also noticed most credentialed people under perform their credential. This is especially true in my own profession., The my credential ranks as one of the highest at 87%, just tells me MPAI.

Anonymous Giuseppe May 26, 2015 2:10 PM  

Vox,
You have no idea how much this post has affected me. Thank you.

Anonymous Cheddarman, vile faceless minion 0187 May 26, 2015 2:11 PM  

I am always right when it comes to cheese, but otherwise, follow Vox's advice

Blogger collisioncat67 May 26, 2015 2:27 PM  

A great many of these "experts" are baby boomers. Baby boomers inherently trust other baby boomers, especially those who happen to be credentialed, or pedigreed.

How could anyone go wrong for putting absolute faith in the expertise of an educated boomer?

Anonymous Giuseppe May 26, 2015 2:27 PM  

Vox,
You have no idea how much this post has affected me. Thank you.

Anonymous Keep Smiling May 26, 2015 2:33 PM  

"“The theory that he’s working on involves several of the toughest problems in astrophysics and theoretical physics … Anyone who solves these will be in line for a Nobel Prize.”"

Yes... but does he have any shirts with big-boobed women ... OOPS .. I mean Smart Women on them.

Blogger Res Ipsa May 26, 2015 2:35 PM  

Unfortunately Jacob's experience is too common. It's not confined to kids with "superstar" IQ's either. Most teachers have average IQ's and most teachers are female. By definition they cannot conceive of a different way of perceiving the world other than theirs. When a kid doesn't fit they would rather find a label like, "special needs", than help him find his way in the world.

Modern public schooling is just another way of saying child abuse.

Good on Jacob's mom for opting out of a system designed to steal her son's mind and soul.

Anonymous Stickwick May 26, 2015 2:51 PM  

Vox, I have a 12 year-old boy enrolled in my modern physics course next semester, and I'd appreciate any advice you have in terms of how to treat him, what to expect from him, etc. I've met this kid -- he's very bright, but he's awkward and difficult to understand at times. The other profs have told me that he has the intellect to handle the material, but in a lot of ways he's still just an adolescent boy.

Anonymous STICK May 26, 2015 2:54 PM  

DON'T WORRY. EVERYTHING WILL BE OK.
Top Vatican adviser Jeffrey Sachs says that when Pope Francis visits the United States in September, he will directly challenge the “American idea” of God-given rights embodied in the Declaration of Independence.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3291368/posts

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 26, 2015 2:57 PM  

"Most teachers have average IQ's"

If only, then they could be reeducated in the skilled trades and contribute to society.

Anonymous Brother Thomas May 26, 2015 3:03 PM  

That young man should be seized and drugged!

Blogger Gunnar Thalweg May 26, 2015 3:03 PM  

There's also a management lesson here, too: Play hard to people's strengths. Magnify what they do well, and try to manage (with the usual caveats) around their weaknesses.

Anonymous Porky May 26, 2015 3:03 PM  

What a nerd.

Anonymous Brother Thomas May 26, 2015 3:04 PM  

He's not equal! Widgets, we need widgets!

Anonymous Giuseppe May 26, 2015 3:07 PM  

Stickwick,
My suggestions would be:
1) observe HOW he handles a problem. Try to understand his path of reasoning. Observation, as always, is the key.
2) Ignore status politics. Deal with him as one human to another. If you keep most of the interaction on the material then respect his intellect by treating him as an equal (though perhaps lacking in experience). For those times where he may behave wrongly in social contexts, chastise if you must but move on swiftly. "This is the rule and the rule is this because xy and z. Now stick to it."
If punishment need to be meeted out then do so but do not linger or make a social display of it. It hets done and then you move on.
3.) when explaining a new idea, concept etc, he may take comparatively longer to grasp it. Patience and letting him make mistakes with only gentle guidance after an error is the way. Praise when he figures things out on his own. Once he learns he will become one of the fastest.
4. The magic ingredient, as aleays, is love.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 3:09 PM  

Stickwick May 26, 2015 2:51 PM
The other profs have told me that he has the intellect to handle the material, but in a lot of ways he's still just an adolescent boy.



duh?

don't know how long you'll have him per day, but you should be able to keep him occupied for an hour or two.

any more than that and, if he's given to physical things, you may want to try to provide him a break to go out and stretch his legs or something.

socially, it's going to be practically impossible for him. no one at the college is going to be near his developmental stage and few will be near his intellectual capability.

none of his age peers will be near his intellectual level but he may be able to find some that he can get along with in a hobbyist sense.

Blogger David-093 May 26, 2015 3:14 PM  

Jacob sounds like all my friends growing up that had ADHD. They werent as smart as him, but they were smart enough to be insanely bored in school and were constantly acting up. Most of them had been held back a year while none of the girls were held back. This was at a small private school btw.

Anonymous Mike M. (#315) May 26, 2015 3:14 PM  

If he wins a Nobel Prize in Physics, he can have a SJW tie his shoes for him.

After all, Gender Studies majors need jobs, too.

Blogger David-093 May 26, 2015 3:17 PM  

@Stickwick

I hear kids work best when theyre given a lot of energy drinks by the teacher. Might wanna give that a try.

Blogger JAY WILL May 26, 2015 3:23 PM  

You can get fined in the UK for taking your kid out of school during term time for holidays. Clearly this is a criminal act as any good citizen would simply pay the much higher costs of going during school holidays, where companies can happily hike the prices up. They still do it though, cos the fines are less than the extra cost for your holiday.

My nephew has not had a qualified maths teacher for 3 years. I paid for tutors at £35 an hour to try and help out. Thats your "free school education" for you. (Bit like the "free NHS" where you go on a waiting list to get on another waiting list.)

Which seems the criminal act to you?

I worry about what he gets taught, the PC totalitarian crap all over the media is presumably even worse in schools. Perhaps Ive read to much conspiracy stuff but its seems like its deliberate to me. Young boys will become men, but what kind of men. Seems to me that those with real influence just want obedience from the general population, and males are the ones most likely to cause trouble so they have to put psychological handcuffs on them as early as possible.



Anonymous Thales May 26, 2015 3:27 PM  

So basically Mom followed the Montessori method.

Gee, I wonder why every elementary school doesn't do that...

Blogger Joshua Sinistar May 26, 2015 3:32 PM  

Oh come now! Who cares about some measly White genius? What have Whites ever come up with? Western Civilization? Why that's just racism and envy there -oh, wait I went too far.
Did you know a black man came up with the Super Soaker? Why it must have been all those fire hoses that Whitey used to keep him from raping his wife that got him to make a giant squirt gun. Those squirt guns are vital to the Military Industrial Complex. You could never get land so cheap if cities weren't ruint by diversity!
Who needs engineering or technology anyway? What is this the 1950s? HELL NO! Lookie what's in the White House! Its the Stone Age all over again! Hallelooyahoo, or something...

Anonymous Stickwick May 26, 2015 3:35 PM  

Thanks for the advice, guys. What I really need is advice from people who are either parents of gifted children or have taught them at a high academic level.

This is a university course, which means 50-minute lectures three times a week. There is weekly assigned practice homework that is not graded, so the course grade is based on exams only. I have thirty students, so there's not much time for individualized attention in class. There will be a weekly help session in the evening where I can give more individualized attention. I've rarely had to discipline students for behavioral problems, because so far they've all been (nominally) adults, so I'm not sure what to expect from this kid. The structure of the class is, most of the time I will be lecturing while the students are taking notes, daydreaming, or whatever. We will sometimes have class discussion, and sometimes the students will solve problems at the blackboard.

By the way, no surprises here, but this kid is homeschooled. He's only taking math and science at the university, everything else he gets at home.

Blogger kh123 May 26, 2015 3:41 PM  

"Why it must have been all those fire hoses"

For the love of God, man. And that was a good cup of coffee too. Bastard.

Anonymous SugarPi May 26, 2015 3:46 PM  

Amazing... some institutional experts aren't as smart as their patients/clients/customers.

Blogger Feather Blade May 26, 2015 3:46 PM  

@Stickwick - I suppose you could contact the kids' parents, find out if this is the first time he's taken a course at the college, ask the format his homeschooling has taken (i.e. does the parent lecture, or is it handing him a book and letting him read it then answering questions, etc), to discover if he has any background in proper classroom etiquette, then giving him a brief rundown of what is expected in a college classroom.

Alternately, on the first day of class, you could take the first five or ten minutes to review the expected classroom behavior with all of the students (because Heaven knows that most college students need this anyway), and then just hold him to the same behavioral standards as the older kids.

As long as the standards are clear and evenly enforced, there shouldn't be any problems.

Anonymous Teenage Jail May 26, 2015 3:50 PM  

It's a distressingly common story for exceptionally intelligent children to be referred for a psychiatric evaluation because a teacher thought they were mentally retarded, only for an IQ test to tell the truth.

Regardless of IQ, great things happen when parents surround a child with the things that inspire them. On top of excellence at the things they care most easily about, they gain the chance to find the people they care most easily about, and this has the power to resolve social difficulties as well. So that, I think, is the path to helping a child like Jacob, and the adult he will be, deal with society.

Stickwick, asynchronous development in gifted children would be something worth reading about -- I don't have any particular articles or books to suggest, but search engines seem to turn up some good stuff. Giuseppe's post at 3:07 PM is excellent as well -- deal with him as one human to another. Still, doing this well means remembering that your student is still a 12-year-old, and many things come with being that age that have nothing, or little, to do with the intellectual horsepower he obviously has plenty of.

Bob, depending on the level of the students at Stickwick's college, her 12-year-old student may be able to find people there who can relate to him -- even people who were, not so many years ago, a lot like him, though likely not quite as smart. It would have to be the kind of person willing to make an effort at this, though, because of the developmental difference. Yes, I know I'm being optimistic.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 3:50 PM  

Stickwick May 26, 2015 3:35 PM
This is a university course, which means 50-minute lectures three times a week.



i'm not really sure what your concern is, then.

< an hour per day is certainly short enough to expect and demand that he behave in class and pay attention.

otoh, if he's achieving this much on home schooling, i'm pretty sure he's got the whole "pay attention and concentrate" thing down pat.

you're going to have him for less than 2 hrs per week so i'm unsure how else the issue of his 'adolescence' is supposed to impact his classroom experience or your teaching.

given his high achievement, perhaps prepare a few more extra credit problems or give pointers to some of the math / physics conundrums so if he gets bored with the regular class work he's got something to distract himself that's still on topic.

Anonymous BoysMom May 26, 2015 3:58 PM  

Stickwick, I wasn't a boy (obviously) and was a bit older, but started university courses with Astronomy at fourteen and took a 300/500 level Astrophysics class at 15. I didn't want or expect anything special from the Astronomy prof, just to be treated like all the other hundred-odd students. Astrophysics was a small class--nine of us. None of the other students cared how old I was. Same prof--he looked at my grades in Astronomy and asked if I wanted special permission to take his Astrophysics course.
The only person I had any trouble with in the whole under-eighteen-university-experience was the Astronomy Lab TA. He was convinced that the proper lab partner for me was a gal who's IQ was at most 70. This was extremely frustrating because she just couldn't do the work. There were a couple unhappy administrators but they weren't in strong enough positions to go up against the number of tenured professors I had on my side (this was back in the nineties) across several departments.
I mostly hung out with the grad students who were on the same academic wavelength I was, whom I'd already known for a couple years from the Astronomy club. I didn't have any trouble finding as much social life as I wanted, though much of it was not on campus.
I'd say treat him like any other student. If he needs extra help he should ask, just like any other student. We didn't enroll our oldest in university yet because we aren't seeing the responsibility level we need to.

Blogger Daniel May 26, 2015 4:00 PM  

Stickwick, do nothing special but make sure he knows to take advantage of your office hours. Obviously, he can't be allowed to consume them all, but if you have him schedule a half-hour once a week starting early in the semester, that's going to do wonders, for him and for you.

Honestly, that may be all you need, and he may not even need to do it every week after the 1st or 2nd exam.

Anonymous Beau May 26, 2015 4:01 PM  

@Stickwick

Give him a historic problems to solve; e.g, the pogo-stick effect on the Gemini astronauts, or the MIRV-weight reduction locus solution problem. He'll see how to translate principles into solutions.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 4:11 PM  

Teenage Jail May 26, 2015 3:50 PM
Bob, depending on the level of the students at Stickwick's college, her 12-year-old student may be able to find people there who can relate to him


a - IF they were intellectually capable of hanging with him THEN they should have been taking Stickwick's class when they were his age ... ie - pretty much every 19 year old he meets is going to be well behind him in mental acuity.

now, they may understand the current material nearly as well as he grasps it and be useful study partners, but that's due to the extra years of instruction and study, not actual mental horsepower.

if he finds someone who actually is comparable to how intelligent he is, and yet is still ~10 years older than him in this class then that person has been significantly knee capped by pub.ed.


b - the larger issue delta isn't intelligence, it's body development. all of his classmates are well past puberty and, in the 1800s, would have been considered full fledged adults by now.

Jacob is either just past or ready to enter puberty. that can bring a host of issues. however, there really shouldn't be time in a < 1 hour class for those to express.

Stick
the only thing i'd suggest would be to keep an eye on who he sits with. if he starts hanging out with somebody who thinks it would be funny to induce the youngster into acting up to be 'cool', that could be a problem.

this is the kind of thing a ne'er do well, rebel alpha type ( narcissist / borderline / sociopath / etc ) might pull with the kid. goad the kid into doing things so the 'smart' kid gets in trouble while the cool dude sits in the background smirking, pretending to be innocent.

Anonymous Stickwick May 26, 2015 4:13 PM  

bob k. mando: i'm not really sure what your concern is, then.

This is why I'm specifically asking Vox and other people who have direct experience with teaching gifted young boys.

I'll have this student for 2.5 hours a week; I'm not concerned about any behavior problems in class or his impact on my teaching.

What I am concerned about is this. The other professors who have had him in their classes have said that, in spite of his intellectual horsepower, the kid is scattered in his ability to stay on track with assignments and what's going to be asked on the exams. He's also, as I've already said, a bit awkward and difficult to understand when he speaks -- he speaks very quietly and is mumbly.

I have no idea how much I should expect from him in terms of his preparation for exams. Should I let him sink or swim like I do with the other students? Coddle him a bit since he is, after all, just an adolescent boy? I have no clue. I also want to take care not to embarrass him in front of the other students when trying to deal with his awkwardness in class. I do call on students from time to time to answer questions or solve problems at the board. Is this a "manning up" experience or is it too much pressure for a kid? I just don't know.

I want to make sure this kid gets the most out of my class that he can, so I need some advice on how to prepare.

Blogger Sean Carnegie May 26, 2015 4:25 PM  

@Stickwick

As someone who used to be the kid horrendously bored in school with an IQ close to the kid's in the article quoted, if he's there, he's willing to learn and he's interested in the topic. The 3 50 minute lectures might just be the best three hours of his week if he's going to be a physics or math major.

Treat him like any other student, don't dumb down conversation with him on the topic, and if you can see some wheels turning in his head that others might not exhibit, help them along.

Blogger Brenden May 26, 2015 4:25 PM  

I took a couple physics classes with that kid. He's smart but not 170. He studied hard and did well but he was on par with the bright but not exceptionally intelligent students. Given his age it's impressive but from what I saw of him he's hardly the next Einstein or Newton. His story is hyped up a bit.

Anonymous Teenage Jail May 26, 2015 4:30 PM  

"IF they were intellectually capable of hanging with him THEN they should have been taking Stickwick's class when they were his age ... ie - pretty much every 19 year old he meets is going to be well behind him in mental acuity."

Should have been, but few children, even among those who are capable, get that opportunity. That may be changing; I hope so.

What happens to highly gifted children who don't get the chance to learn at the speed they're capable of? Often, they become highly-gifted college students who, even if they're seeing this material for the first time, have the capacity, at least, to relate to someone like Stickwick's student, even if they don't have quite the same horsepower. Like all highly-gifted people, they're rare, so there might well be none that this particular student will meet, but they exist.

Otherwise, I agree with your comment, particularly in watching out for social manipulators like you mentioned.

"if he finds someone who actually is comparable to how intelligent he is, and yet is still ~10 years older than him in this class then that person has been significantly knee capped by pub.ed."

Indeed. It happens.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 4:41 PM  

Stickwick May 26, 2015 4:13 PM
The other professors who have had him in their classes have said that, in spite of his intellectual horsepower, the kid is scattered in his ability to stay on track with assignments and what's going to be asked on the exams.


sounds like he's not being fully engaged.

because, believe me, when guys find something that REALLY interests them, we can memorize facts and figures to an amazing level of detail and knowledge.

sports trivia, D&D rules, how to tell every production year of the Mustang apart from every other ( and, for the GM guys, why the Camaro is better ) or Pokemon just to name a few examples. that's the kind of "useless knowledge" that we're likely to devote completely unreasonable amounts of time to knowing.

which is something you may not be able to 'fix'. it may be that pure math or astrophysics is just not something that ( heh ) triggers him.

there's not really anything you can do about that.

i already suggested more EC and links to math / physics conundrums. if your regular course work just isn't advanced enough to keep him interested AND the really high level stuff doesn't hook him, math isn't his thing.




Stickwick May 26, 2015 4:13 PM
He's also, as I've already said, a bit awkward and difficult to understand when he speaks -- he speaks very quietly and is mumbly.


that's a child rearing and self confidence problem and i don't see how you can fix that within the class.

i'm sure Vox would suggest putting him in a full contact combat class and make him start working out ...

which i agree would help, but is still not going to 'fix' the underlying fact that all of his cohort in the class are significantly larger and more physically capable than he is.

nor is that going to solve the problem that he sticks out like a sore thumb compared to everyone else in the class.

maybe suggest a public speaking course to his parents?

he probably doesn't follow Nate's dictum to always look people in the eyes either ... you could observe if he's not doing that and suggest to him that he start.




Stickwick May 26, 2015 4:13 PM
I do call on students from time to time to answer questions or solve problems at the board. Is this a "manning up" experience or is it too much pressure for a kid? I just don't know.


a - this would vary for every child
b - given that this one seems rather timid, you may want to acclimate him to working problems on the board in a one-on-one setting before throwing him out there in front of the whole class.
c - maybe let him know ahead of time that he's going to be called up?

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 4:48 PM  

Teenage Jail May 26, 2015 4:30 PM
Indeed. It happens.



you don't need to inform me of this. i was put into every 'gifted student' program available at every school i attended.

none of them were anything more than glorified study halls and places to park shite teachers that you couldn't demand anything of.

absofuckinglute waste of time.

Blogger Sean Carnegie May 26, 2015 4:57 PM  

@Bob K

Same here with placement but I had a couple of real teachers, one in particular, that really gave me a kick in the ass when I was there. However, once one gets to high school those classes are gone.

I think the secondary part of the placement programs, and this is something that's very much overlooked, is to give kids an environment where they're not expected to dumb themselves to keep up with the class. You're surrounded by kids who are largely in the same boat as you are: looked down upon by other kids, teachers unsure of how to approach or engage you, school being reaaaaaaaally easy, and school that isn't really school. Those programs were the best part of my school year and the parts that I look back with missing the most.

Blogger Doulos Minion May 26, 2015 4:57 PM  

As a bright/gifted pre-teen in Algebra II I struggled with the approved State Method of Equation Solving, since I could visualize the problems and devise unique ways of solving. Most times, no work was involved as I could just give the answer. This was a problem! The local State Educational Officer in charge of Mathematics Studies and Cog Formation, informed me that I would not amount to anything unless I conformed and followed his rules. Since my rural poor parents had no other option than to send me back to the State Education and Indoctrination Center for Building Little Round Pegs, I never took another math class, which I regret to this day. Instead I found philosophy and history, and though they do not pay well, I am happy with my profession. Many of us have been ruined by mid-intelligence losers sent to us from "colleges" with "degrees/credentials" in education, but we must always remember why they exist!

Example #1--I was asked to do a session at the local university on Religion in the Classroom for a course titled "Teaching for Social Change". It was a required course for the Social Studies Education Major. Of course, I took up the challenge and infuriated all the little numbskull idiots including the instructor. Funny thing is, I have not been asked back.

Anonymous Teenage Jail May 26, 2015 5:03 PM  

I know it, Bob. I had my own wretched experience with school, though my school was the sort of place that didn't have gifted programs because every last parent would have thought their children belonged in them.

Anonymous Leonidas May 26, 2015 5:04 PM  

you don't need to inform me of this. i was put into every 'gifted student' program available at every school i attended.

none of them were anything more than glorified study halls and places to park shite teachers that you couldn't demand anything of.

absofuckinglute waste of time.


In my elementary school days, those programs were some of the best things that ever happened to me. Surprisingly, the gifted programs were really, really good in semi-rural Alabama in those days.

Of course, they couldn't let that go. They systematically destroyed any value that the gifted programs had over the course of about five years. By the time I finished the age groups that even had them, they were absolutely the waste that you describe.

Blogger Danby May 26, 2015 5:24 PM  

@Duolos
I never took another math class, which I regret to this day.

me too. Fortunately, it gave me time for more language classes.

Blogger Azimus May 26, 2015 5:24 PM  

Brenden May 26, 2015 4:25 PM I took a couple physics classes with that kid. He's smart but not 170. He studied hard and did well but he was on par with the bright but not exceptionally intelligent students. Given his age it's impressive but from what I saw of him he's hardly the next Einstein or Newton. His story is hyped up a bit.

You should watch his TED talk (there is a link to it in the linked article). It might inform on your opinion of him. He is - anti-education? - after a fashion, so I would not expect he would excel by ordinary measures of performance.

Blogger Azimus May 26, 2015 5:31 PM  

Can someone explain the substantive "horsepower" difference between a 170 IQ and a 100 IQ? I understand the bell curve and standard deviation and all that, but what does the number 170 mean? Is it simply a percentile rank, or is it comparative? Does a 170 IQ produce 70% more thought power than a 100 IQ? Is there any way to define what IQ means in real terms like that? Does a 170 IQ in a 12y.o. mean something different than the same score in a 50y.o.?

And is IQ really calibrated for extreme IQ's like this - what I mean is, is the number really meaningful past a certain lower and upper limit? At some point, does comparing high IQ's lose meaning (is a 180 IQ really smarter than a 175 IQ)? I have not had success googling these questions, so if anyone could offer thoughts or direction it would be a kindness.

Blogger Quadko May 26, 2015 5:42 PM  

This conversation just reminds me of how much I loved the movie "Real Genius". I'm still disappointed that Uni wasn't like that.

But I went to an engineering school, an... interesting... choice for me - should have chased either a strong CS school or entrepreneur work, or just had fun writing until I figured out how to make it publishable. As it was, "glorious failure," but I learned a lot of lessons I needed to know about structure, failure, and the differences between raw intelligence, diligence, and its expression through different personalities. Wish I'd know better than to just go get a programming job, though. Raw intelligence isn't that useful; applied intelligence is the trick.

Blogger Nobody May 26, 2015 5:43 PM  

How about just educating him? And not treating him lake a special one of a kind snow-flake?

Blogger Danby May 26, 2015 5:44 PM  

Can someone explain the substantive "horsepower" difference between a 170 IQ and a 100 IQ?

Let's put it this way. I figured out how to read when I was 3. Within a month I was reading at a junior-high-school level. Not understanding everything, obviously, but once I got the mechanics of reading down, I could read any word on the page. If I wasn't familiar with it, I could often work out much of the meaning from context. It was just another form of talking for me, except I could read faster than I could talk talk.

And is IQ really calibrated for extreme IQ's like this - what I mean is, is the number really meaningful past a certain lower and upper limit?

No, it's not linear, and beyond about 150 is only a very relative measure.

Blogger Corvinus May 26, 2015 5:51 PM  

Vox's First Law: Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from insanity.

That's interesting. I once overheard someone describe me as "a little crazy" and "his mind works on a totally different level".

Anonymous BarneyFrank&BryanSinger May 26, 2015 6:00 PM  

That young man should be seized and drugged!

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 26, 2015 6:04 PM  

That young man should be seized and drugged!

You laugh, but there are likely a whole host of special education teachers out there lamenting the fact that this kid didn't get the help he so desperately needed...

Blogger Cail Corishev May 26, 2015 6:04 PM  

Azimus, let's assume that 170 IQ is on the 15-SD scale (the other common scale is 16-SD). A 170 IQ means he's smarter than 99.9998467663% of people his age. To flip the fraction, he's 1 in 652,598. So if he lives in a town or smaller city, he might be the smartest person there.

As I mentioned, it's normalized to age. So while raw brain power and speed tend to rise until middle age and then decline (with some cognitive abilities falling sooner than others), your IQ score won't change much over time because you're always being compared to your age cohort and they're rising and falling with you.

So that's what it means. To the extent that it's comparable to a 100, it's not 70% more horsepower; it's exponentially more. If a 100-IQ third-grader needs 15 minutes of instruction and an hour of practice to learn a new concept, then his 170-IQ classmate won't learn it in 70% less time; he might learn it in 30 seconds with no need for practice. It's that big a difference, in general.

And you're right to think that it becomes less accurate and meaningful at the upper levels, because there are so few people at that level to compare to. Also, at 170, you probably have the horsepower to learn and understand pretty much anything you want, so traits like ambition and determination, plus that spark of genius that Vox talks about, separate the pack much more than a few IQ points.

Anonymous Anubis May 26, 2015 6:21 PM  

Stickwick "Vox, I have a 12 year-old boy enrolled in my modern physics course next semester......time I will be lecturing while the students are taking notes, daydreaming, or whatever"

Physics with no toys to play with. Shouldn't you have some lab experiments to do to keep the boys entertained? Physics can be playtime

"Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus -That young man should be seized and drugged!You laugh, but there are likely a whole host of special education teachers out there lamenting"

The funny part was the names Barney Frank and Bryan Singer for saying that. Perhaps I should have put Samuel R. Delany instead.

Blogger CarpeOro May 26, 2015 6:23 PM  

Interesting. When I was young I occasionally had issues with my advanced math classes where I would have a difficult time showing my work because I would make either an intuitive leap or arrive at the answer by some other method. I do know that very few teachers were ever able to get me genuinely interested in anything. History was always my favorite subject (reading my father's college texts, nearly floored a 6th grade teacher when I told her where Mesopotamia was), with computers coming in a close second. Since I was growing up during the pc revolution (mom bought a TRS80 CoCo when I was 15) I missed a lot I would have gotten interested in if I had been born a decade later.

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 6:30 PM  

Stickwick,

The difference between 12 and 16 is probably greater than the difference between 16 and 29 (my age now), so I'm not sure how helpful this will be. But I took college math (Calc 3 and DiffEq) and physics (calc-based Physics 1) in college, starting at 16. The first two were similar to what you will be teaching in form, the latter was a huge lecture hall.

I think the biggest hurdle for me was the idea that college was going to be so much tougher than high school was before I took the first class. It turns out, it really wasn't that different except slightly less homework, more weight on tests and 3 days/week instead of 5. I'm a high delta, so probably less awkward than your kid. But the one thing I might have wanted would have been for the professor (in my first class) to maybe pull me aside and sort of lay out how things were going to work, mainly to quell any doubts or fears I had about the differences between high school and college. After the first class, this wouldn't have been necessary. It sounds like he's taken other college classes, so I'm not sure this will be necessary, but it might be nice to do anyways. Other than that, I just wanted to learn and fit in and be a regular (albeit younger) student.

Again, the differences between 12 and 16 are vast, but that was my experience. FWIW, I took these classes at Colorado State, so I don't think that my experience in general was much different than what you guys have going on at UT.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 6:32 PM  

Azimus May 26, 2015 5:31 PM
And is IQ really calibrated for extreme IQ's like this



depends on the specific test being used. the 'extreme IQ' societies use specialized tests in order to get meaningful resolution at the higher ranges.

gen pop tests aren't really going to be able to tell you anything more specific than "This'n is a smarterer".

there's also the issue of competencies and proclivities.

iirc, Vox scores something like 150 ... but is just miserable at spatial thinking. so a 130 may well be able to best him at something like rotating 3d objects in his mind.



Azimus May 26, 2015 5:31 PM
Does a 170 IQ in a 12y.o. mean something different than the same score in a 50y.o.?



all meaningful IQ tests are age weighted. a 145 is going to have different mental capabilities at 5, 15 and 30.


Azimus May 26, 2015 5:31 PM
At some point, does comparing high IQ's lose meaning (is a 180 IQ really smarter than a 175 IQ)?



the number is the number.

as long as you understand that there will be some variance from test to test, generally speaking a higher one is going to process more quickly than a lower one.

there was some talk earlier this week about how there seems to be a qualitative difference in thinking between ~130 to 150.

whether there might be other, higher plateaus, i have no idea.

as to your specific question of 175 vs 180, that's probably inside the error bars on the test.

Anonymous Beau May 26, 2015 6:35 PM  

@ Stickwick

the kid is scattered in his ability to stay on track with assignments and what's going to be asked on the exams. He's also, as I've already said, a bit awkward and difficult to understand when he speaks -- he speaks very quietly and is mumbly. .

In addition to aforementioned advice:

a) Use your syllabus structure to guide him; refer to it regularly. It's a pilot's checklist, a general contractor's punch list, etc.

b) Tell him the concept you will be testing for on each exam. If he can see the pattern in advance it will keep his focus, especially if your examples are historical breakthroughs, unusual, or current cutting-edge.

c) Mumbly goes away with acceptance. When he recognizes you respect his input, you may find him a fount of speech and ideas. At his age his mind hasn't yet ossified into compartmentalized thinking. He might harbor some strikingly novel ideas unfettered by boundaries of traditions; but he's probably figured out to be quiet in the presence of the non-curious.

Firing the imagine for a thirst to master the subject matter:

Teacher: Since we know the surface of the moon has an ambient background radiation rate comparable to Chernobyl, where do we build the moon base?

Student: Underground.

Teacher: Mining equipment is a very heavy lift, how else might we carve out moon base tunnels?

Student: (hmm) Lasers!

Teacher: Good, let's discuss the engineering necessary to make this a reality.


Enjoy




In addition t

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 6:40 PM  

a) Use your syllabus structure to guide him; refer to it regularly. It's a pilot's checklist, a general contractor's punch list, etc.

Excellent as well.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 6:41 PM  

Nobody May 26, 2015 5:43 PM
How about just educating him? And not treating him lake a special one of a kind snow-flake?



because, you dumbass, he IS a snowflake. he's going to be a third YOUNGER than everyone else there.

kind of hard to pretend that he's "just the same as everyone else" when he so clearly is not.

do i think he ought to be held to the same standards of behavior? certainly.

but he's not in this class to be taught how to behave.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 6:56 PM  

SJWs take their forced social conformity automated:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/riot-rolls-out-automated-instant-bans-for-league-of-legends-trolls/

Blogger Thordaddy May 26, 2015 6:56 PM  

Experts do not believe in God-ordained free will and therefore are automatically self-incriminated subject to de facto suspicion and the maxim "guilty and forever proving innocence."

Blogger Azimus May 26, 2015 7:04 PM  

Danby, Cail - thank you for your comments. Do you find increased IQ correlates to creativity? Obviously our host is both intelligent and creative - in my own walk as an "SD+1" I find that I am much more willing to find a fix myself than to hire somebody @ $105/hr to do it for me, which is what the vast majority of people in my orbit do - a humble demonstration of creativity maybe, but measurable in the pocket book. Or is IQ just raw analytical power?

Anonymous MendoScot May 26, 2015 7:04 PM  

Maintain discipline in your classes. Including him.

Blogger Azimus May 26, 2015 7:10 PM  

Bob just caught your comment, much appreciated.

So for age-weighting, this means if I tested 115 at age 12, I'm going to be there within some tolerance when I'm 45?

Anonymous rho May 26, 2015 7:16 PM  

Stickwick:
What I am concerned about is this. The other professors who have had him in their classes have said that, in spite of his intellectual horsepower, the kid is scattered in his ability to stay on track with assignments and what's going to be asked on the exams. He's also, as I've already said, a bit awkward and difficult to understand when he speaks -- he speaks very quietly and is mumbly.

My only suggestion would be to not hold yourself wholly responsible for whatever course this boy's life takes, good or ill. It's impressive that he's taking a college course, but it's not likely that he is ready to do so. The concerns raised by the other professors should raise a flag. Genius untempered with an ability to navigate the world can end unhappily.

The lack of focus may simply be because he's 12, in which case he shouldn't be taking college level courses. He's not ready. It may be because he's a singular genius with unique perspective, in which case it's unlikely that you will be able to mentor him properly. However it works out, you can't shove your other students aside to cater to his eccentricities. And won't on you if he fails to become Doogie Howser.

My only experience is kinda/sorta mentoring a fifth grader. I introduced a bunch of different stuff to him, and he went on to be totally crazy about flying, both airplanes and helicopters, and is now studying aeronautical engineering. None of which I had anything to do with, as I consider planes to be skybuses and helicopters to be whirling death machines held aloft with witchcraft.

Blogger VD May 26, 2015 7:25 PM  

Vox, I have a 12 year-old boy enrolled in my modern physics course next semester, and I'd appreciate any advice you have in terms of how to treat him, what to expect from him, etc.

Find him a male mentor in the class who will agree to sit next to him and look out for him. Talk to the boy before the first class and let him know that if he's got any issues, anything at all, he can come to you and talk to you about them.

Tell him that you know he's smart, but you're going to push him to be the best he can be. All most smart kids are looking for is a modicum of understanding and acceptance for what they are. And the mentor will be important to keep the other students from harassing him.

OpenID simplytimothy May 26, 2015 7:25 PM  

Teacher: Since we know the surface of the moon has an ambient background radiation rate comparable to Chernobyl, where do we build the moon base?

Student: Underground.

Teacher: Mining equipment is a very heavy lift, how else might we carve out moon base tunnels?

Student: (hmm) Lasers!

Teacher: Good, let's discuss the engineering necessary to make this a reality.

Enjoy


A gun thread!

Anonymous JRL May 26, 2015 7:29 PM  

That's great and all but does he support gay marriage?

This is all that matters.

If you don't support gay marriage you are an idiot. Therefore IQ scores are meaningless AND progs are smarter.

Blogger Danby May 26, 2015 7:33 PM  

Do you find increased IQ correlates to creativity? Obviously our host is both intelligent and creative - in my own walk as an "SD+1" I find that I am much more willing to find a fix myself than to hire somebody @ $105/hr to do it for me, which is what the vast majority of people in my orbit do - a humble demonstration of creativity maybe, but measurable in the pocket book. Or is IQ just raw analytical power?

1)Define creativity. For some values of creativity, no, for finding creative solutions to problems, yes.
2) Fixing things is FUN. Why would I hire someone to have fun for me?

Anonymous Sarah May 26, 2015 7:44 PM  

It's the case that many kids are misdiagnosed or simply not given the correct kind of care.

But worse is that many parents with kids with different needs are simply at a loss with no idea how to proceed. They don't have the inclinations or wherewithal of the mother you describe. Sometimes the "system" is a blessing for them and their children.

Blogger Nate May 26, 2015 7:51 PM  

"Can someone explain the substantive "horsepower" difference between a 170 IQ and a 100 IQ? "


Yes.

At 170... someone with an IQ of 100 is closer to a chimp's IQ than they are to yours. Much closer.

Blogger Nate May 26, 2015 7:52 PM  

the bad thing is... this isn't as stratospheric as you'd be lead to believe. I guarantee you there are guys here with IQs around 170... if not higher.

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 8:03 PM  

Find him a male mentor in the class who will agree to sit next to him and look out for him. Talk to the boy before the first class and let him know that if he's got any issues, anything at all, he can come to you and talk to you about them.

Tell him that you know he's smart, but you're going to push him to be the best he can be. All most smart kids are looking for is a modicum of understanding and acceptance for what they are. And the mentor will be important to keep the other students from harassing him.


The mentor idea is excellent as well. I had a pseudo-mentor in another guy from my high school who was a year older than me in the class, which helped greatly.

Glad to see that my other points are in relative agreement with VD's ideas.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 8:04 PM  

Azimus May 26, 2015 7:10 PM
So for age-weighting, this means if I tested 115 at age 12, I'm going to be there within some tolerance when I'm 45?


generally speaking, yes.

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 8:07 PM  

I guarantee you there are guys here with IQs around 170... if not higher.

Yeah, I'm in the upper tier as well, and rarely post for fear of sounding dumb. Although I have trouble believing that VD's IQ is only in the 155-160 range.

Anonymous Boomer "bafoon"[sic] "validictorian"[sic] May 26, 2015 8:09 PM  

"the bad thing is... this isn't as stratospheric as you'd be lead to believe. I guarantee you there are guys here with IQs around 170... if not higher."

Every internet thread about IQ has at least a couple posters at 170, and most of them have a half-dozen PhDs, as well. Most of those scores and degrees are super serial, too.

I'm guessing the quoted comment was a veiled reference to the kind of Ilk who can't figure out how dictionaries work, and who try and claim their wife's income as their own to impress strangers on the the net, however.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 8:14 PM  

Boomer "bafoon"[sic] "validictorian"[sic] May 26, 2015 8:09 PM
I'm guessing the quoted comment was a veiled reference to the kind of Ilk who can't figure out how dictionaries work, and who try and claim their wife's income as their own to impress strangers on the the net, however.



at least you're bright enough to paraphrase "Nate seems to be saying ..."

i'm calling you for ~115.

probably a bit higher than the tard who doesn't want to snowflake over a 12 year old.

Blogger Nate May 26, 2015 8:15 PM  

"Although I have trouble believing that VD's IQ is only in the 155-160 range"

Vox's IQ is a statistical anomaly. The guy's spacial reason scores are something that you'd expect from a medium size primate. I don't mean they are a lot less than his others and therefore look retarded. I mean actually retarded. Like making coffee with a normal coffee machine is to much for him retarded.

In terms of packing a car there are probably kids with extra chromosomes who are better planners than him.

So remember those all factor in to bring down his other scores... and he's still around 149 or so.

So if you account for the retardery bringing everything else down you have to figure he's running with the equivalent of the 160s if you aren't talking about spacial reasoning.

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 8:28 PM  

Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 8:07 PM
Yeah, I'm in the upper tier as well, and rarely post for fear of sounding dumb.



*shrugs*

that never stops me.

Blogger Azimus May 26, 2015 8:28 PM  

Nate May 26, 2015 8:15 PM
So if you account for the retardery bringing everything else down you have to figure he's running with the equivalent of the 160s if you aren't talking about spacial reasoning.


So probably wipes out his whole platoon calling in an airstrike, but saves millions of lives cracking enigma code. Got it.

By the way who won the Frontier War?

Blogger Cee May 26, 2015 8:29 PM  

SJWs take their forced social conformity automated:
That can't possibly go wrong.

Blizzard just rolled out a massive ban wave for botters in WoW that I am 99.9% sure used an automated algorithm to identify bot-like behavior, and it got a lot of people who weren't (actively) botting due to comparatively trivial behavior.

I'm looking forward to hearing about this piece of work handing out indiscriminate permabans in the future due to MOBA players using it to punish each other for things other than being RSHDs.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 26, 2015 8:32 PM  

Do you find increased IQ correlates to creativity? [...]. Or is IQ just raw analytical power?

I'd call it a combination of raw power and speed, though some have more of one or the other. It doesn't include creativity. I don't know if it correlates with creativity in general, but it doesn't for me. I can probably count the genuinely creative moments in my 45 years on two hands. Give me something broken and I can fix it, a problem and I can solve it, an idea and I can run with it, but don't wait for me to come up with the new idea myself. It boggles my mind to think there are people who sit down on a schedule and say, "Okay, it's time to come up with a story for this week's show" -- and then do it.

The thing about high IQ is that it can cover a multitude of defects. Someone said that raw intelligence isn't that useful (which is something only an intelligent person would say), but it's like height, in that it's so constantly useful that you don't even notice it most of the time. The tall guy doesn't notice all the times he doesn't have to get a stool to reach the food on the top shelf like the short guy does. High IQ is like that. You don't notice all the little ways it helps you do things better and faster than normal.

So while I'm not creative, there are people who would say I am, because I'm able to cover for the lack. When I was in art class in school, I was terrible at the creative aspect, never had any idea what would look good -- but I could pay attention to the teacher and at least mimic what he did well enough to turn out a couple paintings that weren't embarrassing. When I design a dungeon for D&D, I generally don't have any cool new ideas, but I'm able to pull in ideas I've seen in modules and other sources and put them together in a way that makes sense. I don't consider that creative, but the result looks creative.

So when studies find that IQ correlates with pretty much everything good, that's probably why: the high-IQ person can use it to make up for other deficiencies.

Anonymous Mike M. (#315) May 26, 2015 8:37 PM  

Hmph. As Vox has pointed out, once you get into the +3 SD range, interest and inspiration dominate. My higher math skills aren't that good (partly due to poor Government schooling), my language and history skills razor-sharp...

So I became a flight test engineer. The sort you can turn loose on exotic programs and platforms. I don't think outside the box - I don't recognize there IS a box.

You can't teach innovation.

Blogger Nate May 26, 2015 8:38 PM  

"I'm guessing the quoted comment was a veiled reference to the kind of Ilk who can't figure out how dictionaries work, and who try and claim their wife's income as their own to impress strangers on the the net, however."

are you sure its not my giant confederate penis?

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 8:48 PM  

So if you account for the retardery bringing everything else down you have to figure he's running with the equivalent of the 160s if you aren't talking about spacial reasoning.

Yeah, that's probably true. Although I'm also pretty lazy, and maybe a lot of the stuff that impresses me is how he is able to want to find time to do so many things.

*shrugs*

that never stops me.


Yah, but I find that a lot of the things I would comment on have already been. So my commentary would wind up redundant.

Blogger Sean Carnegie May 26, 2015 9:00 PM  

@Nate

I wonder how much of finding so many +5SD guys here is self sorting. Trying to find other people of like mind (in more than one definition) that one can converse with without having to explain everything completely.

As far as what higher IQ would show, I would put it as depth of thought, speed of calculation, ability to hold many threads at once and the like. I could read by 3, spelled at a university level in Grade 1 and did arithmetic and other math in my head quicker than most teachers and adults. Had all the Monopoly deeds memorized before public school just because they were numbers. Sorta spergy that way, I suppose.

How many of the +5SD crowd here are at jobs/careers that most people would put as being beneath those of a higher intelligence?

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 26, 2015 9:04 PM  

IQ:Hard problems::Horsepower:Steep hills

IQ is often measured by speed at solving easy problems under a time constraint. This is more like top speed in a vehicle. So high IQ can mean hot rod or monster truck: the hot rod is going to excel at overcoming many small hills, whereas the monster truck is going to handle the steeper hills with nearly the same ease as it handles the easy hills.

Specifically high-IQ tests tend to have a lot of difficult problems, which favors the monster truck. General IQ tests tend to have problems with gradually increasing difficulty, which especially favors any hot rod with at least enough power to crest the higher hills.

Anonymous Stickwick May 26, 2015 9:06 PM  

Beau, Vox, thanks. That helps. I especially like the idea of a male mentor in the class.

Blogger ray May 26, 2015 9:07 PM  

Bingo. Never rely on Experts, or Godling Science, or Mammy Gubbermint. Each of these has vested interests, and often will only suffer the truth when it advances their own power, prestige, or wealth.


Instead, verify by personal experience, as recommended supra.


The main deficits of profound autism involve communication, fine motor skills, spatial relations, and general body awareness/control. The inability of many autistics to speak/communicate has zero bearing on their intelligence, innate gifts, and abilities. The most intelligent (and impressive) person I've ever met is autistic and has spoken perhaps twenty words in his lifetime. He goes 'EEEE' all day, and most people assume he is 'hopeless'.


Imagine what that is like -- to be brilliant, creative, vibrant, just loaded really -- and to be unable to express any of this. And in fact, to be degraded as a 'retard' or a 'moron'. The frustration level of many autistics is as off-the-charts as their intelligence.


My experience with them has been astonishing. I've been amazed at how some non-verbal autistics are able to utilize alternate means for intimate and complex communication -- songs, video clips, objects in their immediate environment, anything and everything that helps get their points across. It's so inspiring. And some of them have a LOT worth listening to.


It'd be tragic enough if these people really were unintelligent, and 'useless' to society. But it's even worse than that. Many of them are brilliant and wonderful, but are trapped and imprisoned by mere physical limitations, which can be alleviated and often overcome IF they get attention and help from the right people. This is a vast untapped 'resource' about which Holy Science and the Elite Experts know little, nothing, or worse -- their own ignorant and wrong assumptions.


Thanks for bringing this topic up. Remember that most non-verbal autistics are male, and have the specialized gifts of masculinity. These people deserve our help and best efforts, and those who do strive on their behalf inevitably are rewarded far beyond their expectations. As I was.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 26, 2015 9:08 PM  

Creativity means you are allowed to go sideways too. Some cliffs and mountains are too steep and you have to go up them sidelong.

Anonymous BigGaySteve May 26, 2015 9:21 PM  

Nate-are you sure its not my giant confederate penis?

In my studies I was not aware of any differences between yankee and southern penis. What pray tell is the difference?

Here is Voxs SJWS always lie
http://retractionwatch.com/2015/05/20/author-retracts-study-of-changing-minds-on-same-sex-marriage-after-colleague-admits-data-were-faked/

“Several weeks after the canvassing launched in June 2013, Michael LaCour showed me his survey results. I thought they were so astonishing that the findings would only be credible if the study were replicated … Michael LaCour and Dave Fleischer therefore conducted a second experiment in August of 2013, and the results confirmed the initial findings.”

What happened to independent review?

Blogger ray May 26, 2015 9:23 PM  

"Why would someone expect a system designed to control and throttle the mind into obedience of the state to produce exceptional individual talents as created by God?"


Well said.


If it were only the State with its boot on them, that could be remedied, without too much fuss. Unfortunately there are even worse elements involved.


The morons and retards often are smarter, more noble, and more capable than their 'superiors' in the political, economic, and professional classes. Wonder how that news would go over?


I do believe we'd find it safely buried on page 795 of the '2015 UN Report on Special Needs'. Never to be uttered again.

Blogger Nobody May 26, 2015 9:27 PM  

"...probably a bit higher than the tard who doesn't want to snowflake over a 12 year old."

Well, maybe you are into fawning over 12 year old's.

Regardless of his IQ, he is still a kid, and a boy. Their is nothing wrong with nurturing his intelligence, and self-confidence. But you don't want to go all ga-ga over him. Do you ga-ga snow-flake on your boys? Probably.

Anonymous BGS May 26, 2015 9:33 PM  

Do you ga-ga snow-flake on your boys? Probably.

You don't want him to sit next to this guy, a blond pretty boy who grew up on an Indian reservation.
https://news.blog.gustavus.edu/2015/05/21/jace-riggin-16-a-champion-for-justice-in-his-home-state/

Blogger Patrikbc #0344 May 26, 2015 9:59 PM  

When Inwas in 1st grade the school teachers and social worker wanted to send me to special Ed schools too thinking Inhad some form of autism. I had a 12th grade reading level etc.

My wife swears they were right. :s

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 26, 2015 9:59 PM  

Eric Wilson (#0242) May 26, 2015 8:07 PM
Yeah, I'm in the upper tier as well, and rarely post for fear of sounding dumb.


Think of it as a chance to learn by error. :P

Blogger Eric Wilson May 26, 2015 10:07 PM  

Think of it as a chance to learn by error. :P

Oh, indeed. But I've heard that one should read a blog for a week or month before commenting. This one has made me realize that it may be closer to three years.

Off topic, are we ever going to get a PDF of the Great Inflation/Deflation debate?

Blogger bob k. mando May 26, 2015 10:33 PM  

Nobody May 26, 2015 9:27 PM
Well, maybe you are into fawning over 12 year old's.

Regardless of his IQ, he is still a kid, and a boy. Their is nothing wrong with nurturing his intelligence, and self-confidence. But you don't want to go all ga-ga over him. Do you ga-ga snow-flake on your boys? Probably.



told you this one was retarded.

hey, dumbass, in my very first post i said that he should be held to normal standards of behavior, and in the second that class time of less than an hour would certainly not be too much to ask for his attention.

and if you're so concerned about going "ga ga" over him, you shouldn't be letting him take college classes. that alone sets him well outside all norms.



Eric Wilson May 26, 2015 10:07 PM
Off topic, are we ever going to get a PDF of the Great Inflation/Deflation debate?



speaking of pdfs, they appear to be dark magic beyond the ken of British SJWs:
https://everythingisnice.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/hugo-voting-fan-writer/
I don’t consider PDF to be an accessible format.
Martin 21 May 2015 at 16:45

Blogger Feather Blade May 26, 2015 10:51 PM  

I don’t consider PDF to be an accessible format.
Martin 21 May 2015 at 16:45


,,, I'm surprised this commenter is even capable of using a computer. Has anyone given him a link to Adobe Reader?

Blogger Harsh May 26, 2015 11:08 PM  

I don’t consider PDF to be an accessible format.

Maybe we should be nice and send him the crayon on construction paper version.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly May 26, 2015 11:17 PM  

Reading some of the comments in this thread it seems a lot of others have had similar experiences to my own.


How many of the +5SD crowd here are at jobs/careers that most people would put as being beneath those of a higher intelligence?


If you recall the thread a few days ago titled the Excluded, Vox linked to a bit of research pointing out that after a 133IQ a person's chance of employment drops rather steeply in the higher end professions and the cut off is 120 in other areas (including a lot of academia). I am certainly not +5SD but I am smarter than most and I have run into this wall repeatedly. I have never worked a job that was not menial.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 26, 2015 11:44 PM  

The transportation experts up here put in a roundabout on our country highway about ten years ago. It made the intersection more dangerous, but of course the experts claimed it was safer. Last week there were two nasty accidents with a few days of each other, and I replied to a comment on a community discussion forum that we shouldn't be surprised by accidents on a dangerous traffic feature.

Of course a bunch of numbskulls immediately criticized me, saying I was ill-informed and that roundabouts are far safer than stop signs (what was there before) or even traffic lights (the cheaper, faster, better understood option they could have installed). But then one of the guys who said I didn't know what I was talking about actually took the time to go get accident records from the state patrol and county sheriff. Lo and behold, accidents were up by over 30% since the roundabout was installed. I admired the guy for actually correcting himself.

Morons claiming to be experts are screwing up every walk of life. They're destroying children with bad education, killing people with unsafe roadways, and degrading our lives in smaller ways like light bulbs, toilets and gas cans that don't work as well as the ones invented by people a hundred years ago.

The common thread in all their malfeasance is they're only able to do it through government decree. The greater the power of government, the more society suffers from credentialed idiots.

Blogger Nobody May 26, 2015 11:45 PM  

told you this one was retarded.

hey, dumbass, in my very first post i said that he should be held to normal standards of behavior, and in the second that class time of less than an hour would certainly not be too much to ask for his attention.

and if you're so concerned about going "ga ga" over him, you shouldn't be letting him take college classes. that alone sets him well outside all norms.


Stupid, maybe you thought I was talking to you way-way up there. I wasn't. Not until you cut in with your stupidness. Despite his IQ he is still a boy who will one day, hopefully, grow into a man. The last thing this boy is going to need, is people going ga-ga over him, JUST BECAUSE OF HIS IQ. As I said, it is okay to nurture his intelligence. It is okay to nurture his self-confidence. But don't treat him like a freak. If you don't get that, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

And by the way stupid, I am not the one "so concerned about going "ga ga" over him." It has never been an issue for me, except, don't.

Okay, stupid?

Blogger maniacprovost May 26, 2015 11:48 PM  

In my studies I was not aware of any differences between yankee and southern penis. What pray tell is the difference?

The South is half black. The bottom half.

Yeah, I'm in the upper tier as well, and rarely post for fear of sounding dumb.

Well, I hope this post puts your fear in perspective.

Blogger Harsh May 26, 2015 11:49 PM  

Okay, stupid?

It would have been funnier if you had spelled it "stoo-pid".

Anonymous Laz May 26, 2015 11:58 PM  

"I am certainly not +5SD but I am smarter than most and I have run into this wall repeatedly. I have never worked a job that was not menial."

While they haven't all been menial, I feel ya. (and I'm certainly not +5SD either)

Anonymous EH May 27, 2015 12:00 AM  

Stickwick,
I have taught electrical and electronic circuits to boys age 9-13 up to about +3 s.d.

The main principles I use are:
1. Firehose method / give a bit more than the top student can learn
2. your understanding of he material is beside the point. All that matters is what they come to understand. This depends on their succession of thoughts and observations, not your presentation. Time devoted to what they already understand is wasted, as is time spent trying to teach things that don't build upon what they already know. Try to entice them to learn about the subject on their own -- its the only real learning.
3. find connections between subjects - Pythagorean theorem and special relativity, optics and general relativity, AC circuits and QM matrices -- the content is in the connection.
4. the most important type of connection to cover is the physical model - eg. 3 projections of a helix as sin, cos, Argand diagram; hydraulic analogy for circuits (see William Beatty's electricity articles at amasci.com).
5. Give a buffet of thought-provoking possible additional readings, give extra credit for summaries of these.
6. A weekly 20-40 minutes of one-on-one exploring possibilities and ideas can have great results with HG+ students.
7. The best assessment method is projects that are adaptable to the students changing interests, content- rather than form-focused and usually four to six weeks in length. Paper reports on the project are the main thing submitted, but equipment, experiments and data are also valuable.

Blogger maniacprovost May 27, 2015 12:01 AM  

Also...
the kid is scattered in his ability to stay on track with assignments and what's going to be asked on the exams. He's also, as I've already said, a bit awkward and difficult to understand when he speaks
That describes most of my old classmates.

Anonymous wEz May 27, 2015 12:19 AM  

Lol. Great first comment right there. Thank you sir!

Blogger Markku May 27, 2015 12:21 AM  

When I was in England (where they sure love their roundabouts) I heard that it is a known fact that they lead to more accidents than the alternatives. But they lead to fewer FATAL accidents.

Blogger bob k. mando May 27, 2015 12:27 AM  

Nobody May 26, 2015 11:45 PM
Okay, stupid?



got it. you're going to continue to argue against Stickwick doing what ... not a single person in the thread has suggested she do.

keep up the good work, champ.

Blogger bob k. mando May 27, 2015 12:31 AM  

Markku May 27, 2015 12:21 AM
\But they lead to fewer FATAL accidents.



almost a tautology. when you have to slow down to <30 mph to navigate the roundabout, killing yourself / others gets pretty damn hard.

puts a crimp in my whole Death Race 2000 style.

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 27, 2015 12:38 AM  

I don’t consider PDF to be an accessible format.

Hey now. I never said I was in that echelon of advanced thought. Although my question still remains. Probably mainly to Nate, who said awhile back that he was working on a PDF, and less to Vox, who said he didn't really have the time. I have a number of friends and a dad who would benefit greatly from reading it, I think.

Anonymous EH May 27, 2015 12:38 AM  

What is intelligence? According to Rasch statistics / Item Response Theory, ability is mathematically identical to the measure of the difficulty of problems. Intelligence is ability measured along the general intelligence factor, g, which is the principal common factor of ability on all sorts of mental tests.

The probability of answering a question correctly is given by the test-taker's ability divided by the difficulty of the question. (Questions also differ by the steepness of the transition between "hard" and "easy"; the difficulty of a question can be varied somewhat by the amount of time given to answer it.)

For easy questions high intelligence has no advantage other than somewhat greater speed. Differences in intelligence are only revealed by hard questions.

Anonymous Eric Wilson (#0242) May 27, 2015 12:44 AM  

When I was in England (where they sure love their roundabouts) I heard that it is a known fact that they lead to more accidents than the alternatives. But they lead to fewer FATAL accidents.

I don't doubt this at all. The nearest major intersection (and the one that I have to go through to get anywhere) is a roundabout. In general I prefer roundabouts to most other forms of traffic control. Although, I do wish that local governments would make up their minds and decide which street is dominant and make the submissive street have a 2-way stop sign. Also, flashing yellow-flashing red lights late at night would be greatly appreciated, but one step at a time, I guess.

Anonymous Jakey May 27, 2015 12:50 AM  

Have any of you read "Filters Against Folly: How To Survive Despite Economists, Ecologists, and the Merely Eloquent" by Garrett Hardin

Its basically a book on how to wade through the bullshit that the experts put out there using nothing more than mere common sense

Anonymous Jack Amok May 27, 2015 12:50 AM  

When I was in England (where they sure love their roundabouts) I heard that it is a known fact that they lead to more accidents than the alternatives. But they lead to fewer FATAL accidents.

That's the line used here too (by traffic planners who think anything in Europe is très sophistiqué, n'est-ce pas? But the thing is, they limit the alternatives.

For instance, the guy who admitted to the accidents going up also said fatalities were down, but that's in comparison to the stop sign that was there. It's not in comparison to the traffic light that could be there. In fact, a traffic light was put in about half a mile away at the same time, and at that location, both accidents and fatalities are down.

Blogger Cee May 27, 2015 12:51 AM  

Somewhat OT, but here's a thing: A great time for women in STEM
And slightly more on-topic, another thing: Are video games making people sexist?

Blogger Enrique May 27, 2015 1:09 AM  

Hans J Eysenck regarded the genius as a combination of high intelligence with creativity. Creativity is correlated with psychoticism. Psychoticism has three main stands:

1. Associating a broad field of concepts
2. Impulsiveness, spontaneity, a desire for rapid gratification.
3. Emotional detachment, unawareness or indifference to feelings of others, selfishness, the opposite of agreeableness.

This is from:
http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.ca/2012/08/creativity-and-eysencks-psychoticism.html

Psychoticism and psychopathy have superficial traits in common, but are opposite in morality. The psychopath is parasitic, but the genius is altruistic:
http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.ca/2015/01/genius-and-eysencks-concept-of.html

The standard definition is that psychopathy and psychoticism are practically the same, in my opinion that is missing the root of the matter.

Anonymous rho May 27, 2015 1:23 AM  

Vox's IQ is a statistical anomaly. The guy's spacial reason scores are something that you'd expect from a medium size primate. I don't mean they are a lot less than his others and therefore look retarded. I mean actually retarded. Like making coffee with a normal coffee machine is to much for him retarded.

You've said this before, and I still don't know what that means. VD seems capable of reading hex grids in a wargame scenario. That's not that far from looking at a floor plan and visualizing how it looks, which is what I would regard as spatial reasoning. There are many people, many smart people, who are baffled by a floor plan, but is VD one of those?

Or am I confused as to what spatial reasoning is?

Blogger Nobody May 27, 2015 1:33 AM  

got it. you're going to continue to argue against Stickwick doing what ... not a single person in the thread has suggested she do.

keep up the good work, champ.


No, you do not "got it." I was not arguing against Stickwick at all. I wasn't even accusing anyone, of whatever you think I am accusing them of. The only place you are going to find that, is in your head. Heck, I wasn't even talking to, much less arguing against you, until you stuck your head up your butt.

Look, maybe you are embarrassed by your uncalled for accusation dreamed up in your head and slight to whatever you think my IQ is, because you thought, that somehow, I was slighting you. Er, Stickwick. Er, everyone else. Instead of just giving it a rest, admitting you are wrong, you think you are going to outwit me to prove what?

That I was arguing against you?

That I was arguing against Stickwick?

That I was arguing against everyone here?

And like I said, I am not the one "so concerned about going "ga ga" over him." It has never been an issue for me, except, don't.

So what, exactly, stupid, is your issue?

Anonymous rho May 27, 2015 1:47 AM  

So what, exactly, stupid, is your issue?

From one asshole to another, it's probably because you're an asshole. Strive to be a less vociferous asshole, and you can asshole all the live long day.

I liked VXDY's suggestion. It's rational and decent. The fact that Stickwick cares means a lot, too.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit May 27, 2015 2:39 AM  

Tl;dr: Whot VD said. Best possible advice. My respect for Mr. Beale just went up considerably (not that he cares, or should)

It can't hurt to make it clear that office hours aren't just for help with the coursework but for more/more challenging problem sets.

Blogger bob k. mando May 27, 2015 2:46 AM  

rho May 27, 2015 1:47 AM
Strive to be a less vociferous asshole



this advice offends me.

how am i supposed to troll Porkstar by being a less vociferous asshole?



Nobody May 27, 2015 1:33 AM
because you thought, that somehow, I was slighting you.


complete and abject comprehension failure. as expected.

this is the full text of your first two comments:
" Nobody May 26, 2015 5:43 PM
How about just educating him? And not treating him lake a special one of a kind snow-flake?

Nobody May 26, 2015 9:27 PM
Well, maybe you are into fawning over 12 year old's.
Regardless of his IQ, he is still a kid, and a boy. Their is nothing wrong with nurturing his intelligence, and self-confidence. But you don't want to go all ga-ga over him. Do you ga-ga snow-flake on your boys? Probably
."

note that you're the one who is fixated on going ga-ga. i didn't introduce that term, you did. so you can stop using quotes around it, unless you like quoting yourself.

Stick has already noted that he is reported to be excessively diffident and quiet. giving him an over inflated ego is NOT the problem here, getting him to engage in the class is.

YOU are the one who is fixating on a problem that exists only in your own head.

as an example, why'nt you take a look back through all of the people who have self identified as experiencing 'Gifted' classes in this thread ... and look to see if any of them have said anything remotely close to what has your panties in a bunch.

i'm really not interested in coddling a buffoon who is afraid that a smarty pants 12 year old in Texas is going to threaten his precious self esteem by being more intelligent than he is.

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

your 'advice' does not offend me because i thought it was an insult to myself; it aggravates me because it is completely contra-indicated by every single fact which has been relayed to us for the evaluation of the case. ( yes we are, all of us, captive to the validity of Stickwick's evaluation )

had he been a pompous, arrogant little shit who was demanding that all of his classmates kneel before Brad's Big Brain ( which Jules painted the wall with ), you'd have a point.

he's the diametric opposite of your point. but you're still so terrified of the possibility that he might try to use his Big Brain to lord it over you that you are stuck-on-stupid telling us that we've got to make sure to bash his head in about how he's nothing special.

i'm not concerned that Stickwick will follow your advice.

and i'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. ( for this would require you to consider the facts )

i'm just pointing out for others what you're doing. and how fallacious it is.

Anonymous rho May 27, 2015 3:05 AM  

this advice offends me.

how am i supposed to troll Porkstar by being a less vociferous asshole?


You're grandfathered in, but you're still an asshole.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza May 27, 2015 3:37 AM  

How wonderful for Jacob!

Anonymous Shut up rabbit May 27, 2015 4:44 AM  

@BGS What happened to independent review?
Social studies academics view things like peer-review as "patriarchal". The really believe that if they feel something is a certain way then it is as valid as some horrid cis-white-male proving it with their sexisss, racisss science.
PS. I am not kidding. Look at some of the stuff being unearthed about Digra (Digital Games Research Association) members by #GamerGate. Shoking that these are teaching the next generation but it does explain much.

@JYW WILL Perhaps Ive read to much conspiracy stuff but its seems like its deliberate to me.

The word "conspiracy" does not automatically nullify your argument the way MSM & their SJW followers seem to think.

Watch this documentary by one of the best teachers in 'murica who actually researched why the way he was taught to teach failed to help the children achieve, while his own methods which did were more-or-less illegal. All sourced and referenced unlike most social studies research.

Blogger Markku May 27, 2015 4:51 AM  

Or am I confused as to what spatial reasoning is?

It is the ability to manipulate a shape you see in your head, to find some optimal combination of manipulations. Usually to fit maximum amount of things to minimum space by rotations.

For Vox, Tetris would be difficult, and Blockout (3D version of it) outright impossible.

Blogger Markku May 27, 2015 4:53 AM  

Also, a real life example is reading maps - to look at a place on a map and imagine what it would look from the perspective of standing on the ground, or vice versa.

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 May 27, 2015 7:30 AM  

The Social Justice Warriors, and the all powerful state they created, would drown genius in the toilet, because it doesn't fit into their narrowly defined parameters of good behavior.

Markku
Also, a real life example is reading maps - to look at a place on a map and imagine what it would look from the perspective of standing on the ground, or vice versa.


That's what google street view is for bro

OpenID simplytimothy May 27, 2015 7:50 AM  

Or am I confused as to what spatial reasoning is?

It is the ability to manipulate a shape you see in your head, to find some optimal combination of manipulations. Usually to fit maximum amount of things to minimum space by rotations.


Go to the Home-Depot without a sketch and buy the parts necessary to build one of these.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.kGSpuGW8C57ndm%2bz9hdvmw&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0. Then assemble it.

Bonus points if it doesn't leak when (if) assembled.
Super bonus points if the number of trips to the Home-Depot is = 1.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat May 27, 2015 8:42 AM  

Super bonus points if the number of trips to the Home-Depot is = 1.

Now you're just asking for a miracle. It's impossible to do any project without at least 2 trips to the parts store. Impossible, I say.

(Or at least that's my excuse to Milady why I need that second trip to Harbor Freight....)

Blogger denizenofgoo May 27, 2015 11:07 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger denizenofgoo May 27, 2015 11:09 AM  

Teachers are high verbal(comparatively) and low spatial. No wonder spatial thinkers are neglected in the school system.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-the-next-einstein/201208/three-reasons-why-schools-neglect-spatial-intelligence

Blogger Markku May 27, 2015 11:17 AM  

That's what google street view is for bro

I mean when you are lost somewhere with only a paper map with you, and you have a few hypotheses on where you might be. So, you test in your mind whether any of them fits what you see in front of you.

Blogger Markku May 27, 2015 11:20 AM  

Or, a problem from before navigators: You are driving in heavy traffic and when you have to make that important turn, you will have no time to look at the paper map. So, you look at the intersection a bit in advance, and imagine how it will look from the perspective of behind the wheel. Then, when those visuals happen, you know where to make the turn.

Anonymous BGS May 27, 2015 11:28 AM  

Teachers are high verbal(comparatively) and low spatial. No wonder spatial thinkers are neglected in the school system.

Also whites beat everyone else out on spatial orientation so tests have been trying to remove test questions that which non Asian minorities fail. The handicapper general for affirmative action.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) May 27, 2015 11:41 AM  

Super bonus points if the number of trips to the Home-Depot is = 1.

How much parts overage am I allowed? :)

Anonymous rho May 27, 2015 12:52 PM  

Also, a real life example is reading maps - to look at a place on a map and imagine what it would look from the perspective of standing on the ground, or vice versa.

How does VD read a map while playing a wargame then? Is it just number crunching?

Anonymous Sheila May 27, 2015 12:54 PM  

Azimus and others - when others here were listing their IQs, it was definitely unclear which test had been used and when. For example, my son was tested both at age 6 and age 12 using the WISC (for kids who can read) which has a ceiling of 160 or 165 (excuse my poor memory). Thus his score of 156 (might have been 154; can't be bothered to find the box it's packed in) was particularly impressive to those not normally impressed by purportedly gifted kids. I was told almost no one used the older Stanford Binet with the higher limit, and couldn't find anyone to test him on that. There seems to be no way to comparatively rate scores on the two tests. The only thing I could conclude from my reading was that it was likely higher than the WISC indicated.

FWIW, I also seem to recall reading that the test setting can affect the score as well - for example, my kid was tested privately by a paid professional (I know, beware credentials, just noting) whereas someone else I knew parroted her kid's purportedly high IQ based on a group test given by public school teachers.

Interesting points about spatial orientation (not one of my strengths). My son was really into Lego when he was 3-6 (lost interest when other kids started picking it up) and while I'd sit and read the instructions when he'd ask me to help or got stuck, he'd begin by merely looking at the picture of a 400+ piece set and just start building it, and then start to experiment. (He also used Lego and his drawing skills to reinforce whatever intellectual kick he was on at the time - built a model of the Kennedy assassination scene from Lego when he was 5, built a really nice lobster, did a Joan of Arc scene when he was 4, drew tons of Bonnie and Clyde scenes using distance perspective, etc.).

Anonymous rho May 27, 2015 12:58 PM  

Also, a real life example is reading maps - to look at a place on a map and imagine what it would look from the perspective of standing on the ground, or vice versa.

How does VD read a map for a wargame? Is it just number crunching, with no visualization?

Blogger Nobody May 27, 2015 1:26 PM  

bob k. mando

Yes, I said: How about just educating him? And not treating him lake a special one of a kind snow-flake?

And in your schizophrenic mind, this means I was:

Arguing against you.

No, wait!

I was arguing against Stickwick.

No wait!

I was arguing against everybody.

As if I was accusing, you. Er, Stickwick. Er, everybody. Of what exactly? Educating him and treating him like a one of a kind special snow-flake?

You're grasping at straws dumb-ass. You are creating an argument, based on your belief that I was arguing AGAINST you, er Stickwick, er everyone, where it doesn't exist.

Unless of course, you think he should not be educated, and should be treated like a one of a kind special snow-flake.

Grasp on bob.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 27, 2015 2:08 PM  

I have trouble giving directions or remembering road names to places I can almost drive or walk to in my sleep........it's just an orientation and intuition thing, although it seems to diminish with age a bit....

During my brief stint in the military I got lost at night in the middle of Denver after a concert, alone.....I walked, wandering around for a while, somehow I realized I was going the wrong direction, and found my way back to the base without using a map at all...........

Blogger Harsh May 27, 2015 3:19 PM  

And in your schizophrenic mind

bob is a lot of things but schizophrenic is not one of them.

And friendly tip: you lost credibility when you pulled out the "going ga-ga" straw man and then wouldn't back down when you were called on it.

Blogger Danby May 27, 2015 4:23 PM  

I have trouble giving directions or remembering road names to places I can almost drive or walk to in my sleep........

I read an article recently that posited that differences in male and femal behavior can often be accounted for by certain mental processes. As an example, it seems most men learn the route to and geography of an area by constructing a mental 3-d map of it. That way, when they are in a part of it they have never seen before, they have reference points and can often find their way to their destination. Women usually construct a narrative using waypoints, "turn left at the rock that looks like a bear, and right at the bear that looks like a rock"*

That's why women will always ask for directions, and men rarely will. They have a map, it's just not got enough data points in it. If they accumulate more data points they'll have a better map.

Also why men are more likely to just drive around, taking alternate routes.

* 5 points if you know the reference.

Blogger Nobody May 27, 2015 4:33 PM  

To funny.

Now it's the "you lost credibility when you pulled out the "going ga-ga" straw man and then wouldn't back down when you were called on it."

Yeah, I guess I should have just stuck with the, "How about just educating him? And not treating him lake a special one of a kind snow-flake," that got his panties all in a bunch.

But, then, that just proves, in his mind, that I was:

Arguing against him.

Then, I was arguing against Stickwick.

Then, I was arguing against everyone.

Just because the boy is highly intelligent, doesn't mean he has to be treated like a special one of a kind snow-flake, hence ga-ga. Like I said, despite his intelligence, he is still a boy. That doesn't mean he can't be mentored, by a man (or woman). You can encourage him. Lead him. Guide his self-confidence. You just don't want to fawn all over him.

It's just a statement of fact. It isn't arguing against anyone or accusing anyone.

I am sure the boy knows he is different than his peers already.

because, you dumbass, he IS a snowflake. he's going to be a third YOUNGER than everyone else there.

And he is, despite his intelligence, a boy.

Blogger Harsh May 27, 2015 9:02 PM  

To funny.

Indeed, to funny! (raises glass)

Blogger Harsh May 27, 2015 9:02 PM  

To funny.

Indeed, to funny! (raises glass)

Blogger Thucydides May 27, 2015 10:19 PM  

I found this out quite by accident. My son has a form of Autism (Aspergers syndrome), and was not responding well to the program at school. I did notice that in any extracurricular activity he chose to enter, he could perform at a very high level, from martial arts to music to sports. While home schooling was unfortunately not an option due to the work and financial situation, I made a point of generally ignoring school and spending much more time and attention to the extracurricular activities instead. He seems to have recovered from state schooling quite well, and I believe he will do well later in life because of this grounding.

Blogger bob k. mando May 28, 2015 12:14 AM  

Nobody May 27, 2015 4:33 PM
You just don't want to fawn all over him.



only a fucking retard would consider ANY recommendations given in this thread thus far as "fawning".

but i'm the schizophrenic one.

keep up the good work, champ! i don't know where we'd be without you and your low self esteem issues.



Harsh May 27, 2015 9:02 PM
Indeed, to funny! (raises glass)



yeah, i've already taken note of how his speeling is worse than Nate's. but i don't see any point in commenting on that, the quality of his 'thought' is sufficiently miserable so that he can beclown himself with that.

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