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Monday, June 29, 2015

Animal Firm

Rand Paul observes some legal rights are more equal than others:
While I disagree with Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage, I believe that all Americans have the right to contract.

The Constitution is silent on the question of marriage because marriage has always been a local issue. Our founding fathers went to the local courthouse to be married, not to Washington, D.C.

I’ve often said I don’t want my guns or my marriage registered in Washington.

Those who disagree with the recent Supreme Court ruling argue that the court should not overturn the will of legislative majorities. Those who favor the Supreme Court ruling argue that the 14th Amendment protects rights from legislative majorities.

Do consenting adults have a right to contract with other consenting adults? Supporters of the Supreme Court’s decision argue yes but they argue no when it comes to economic liberties, like contracts regarding wages.

It seems some rights are more equal than others.
I think Friday's Supreme Court decision was the biggest step the USA has taken towards theocracy in some time. I already converted from pure abstract libertarianism to National Libertarianism some time ago for purely practical reasons; events had made it sufficiently obvious that the abstract position simply could not function in the real world.

Now I find myself wondering if even this more practical and pragmatic approach is logically consistent with real-world human behavior. It may be that if John Adams is correct and there is no system of government that can survive an insufficiently moral people, what the progressives think of as a linear progression will turn out to be even more cyclical than I had imagined. We know, per Cicero, that democracy leads to aristocracy. But does cultural degeneracy precede theocracy? Or is it simply the decline into low paganism that I have anticipated?

White Christian conservative attachment to the Constitution and traditional American ideals such as representative democracy are consequences of their deeper attachments. Once those connections severed, they are simply a larger, more dedicated, more effective, and better-armed group playing the game of power. I tend to doubt post-democracy is going to be all that those celebrating it now believe it will be.

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156 Comments:

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 June 29, 2015 8:07 AM  

What, you mean the Social Justice Warriors will turn into wilting pink pussy willows once the day of flying lead arrives? Nah, I'm sure they're willing to die for what they believe in...totally. It's who they are, they would never shirk their ideals to preserve something as crude as their own privileged flesh.

Anonymous Stephen J. June 29, 2015 8:13 AM  

How would you differentiate "cultural degeneracy" from "low paganism"? (I'm biased in that I tend to see anything non-Judeo-Christian as both pagan and degenerate, but I grant my blinkers on that one.)

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2015 8:14 AM  

We were unique in the world by adopting a social contract as basis for government. It made us, "The City on a Hill."

Individual Americans are going to have to start asking themselves some very hard questions..

At what point is the constitutional contract completely broken?

And what do I owe the United States of America, a nation that I deep love; afterward?

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 June 29, 2015 8:16 AM  

Narcissism always flies too close to the sun. Delusions of moral adequacy in the starship of fools..
I suspect the Russians will do if for you. Having outsourced everything else so too the correction comes from left field. Otherness is where they came unstuck anyway, otherness will totally do them in. {blind, naked, poor, wretched is a paraphrase of Laodicea}

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 29, 2015 8:17 AM  

I have a Muslim friend in Australis. Right at the beginning of the GWoT he began to boast to me how Muslim people were out-breeding my kind, and that the future of the whole world belonged to them, because demographics.

But I, thinking that culture matters, replied that he was making an awful - perhaps fatal - error. That my people are the most cold-blooded mass murderers this world has ever seen, having perfected the art of slaughter on an industrial scale and (via the atomic bomb) on the post-industrial scale.

The last thing he or his people should want or encourage, is for the white man to abandon our historic restraints, to enter fully into an existential conflict with the Other.

It is like World War One all over again: everyone can see it coming, everyone wants to avoid it, but nobody wants to change direction.


"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. " -Leo Tolstoy

In some ways that is a neat encapsulation of the difference between gamma and not, between SJW and us.

Blogger IM2L844 June 29, 2015 8:20 AM  

Maritalisss!

Someone had to say it.

Anonymous indpndnt June 29, 2015 8:20 AM  

I'm really tired of hearing marriage called a right to contract.

I've asked people who are for the supreme court decision to define marriage for me. They have yet to include anything related to the government in the definition. Therefore, a 'right' to marry has nothing to do with the government. It also has nothing to do with a contract. Contracts about property are secondary to the main promises of marriage (fidelity, permanence, etc.).

What was established is not a 'right to marry', but rather access to government goodies and some legal shortcuts for particular kinds of relationships.

Anonymous Jourdan June 29, 2015 8:21 AM  

Not only is this correct, bit it brings into sharp relief the statement of the LCMS President quoted at length here which included an open and quite explicit warning to the temporal power that their actions were calling their very legitimacy into serious question.

I cannot recall a more mainstream, middle-American leader ever doing such a thing. It's significance cannot be overstated.

In fits and starts, and certainly with the type of clarity one would expect of persons from below to just above average intelligence, more of my people--our European-American people--are beginning to realize that what dwells in Washington is merely a government: it is not us writ large, it is not the Const embodied, it's not even ant sort of personification of the United States.

It's just that thing that Jefferson wisely warned us that would have to be abolished, amended and/or replaced from time to time, men being what we are.

Be hopeful, friends. We just may live long enough to see proper power restored and beauty and the humane grace of true friendship return to us at long last.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown June 29, 2015 8:34 AM  

@Cataline
"At what point is the constitutional contract completely broken?"
Take a look at this picture of the White House two days ago.
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/white-house-rainbow.jpg

If there was ever any doubt that the Obama administration is an occupation government, this pretty much settles it. The contract has been broken, repeatedly.

*sigh* America was such a cool idea.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2015 8:35 AM  

At what point is the constitutional contract completely broken? -> It was completely broken in 1861.

And what do I owe the United States of America, a nation that I deep love; afterward? -> Nothing.

I'm really tired of hearing marriage called a right to contract. -> Yes. No human institution has the authority to define or redefine marriage, any more than it has the authority to declare theft moral or that 1+1 = 3.

Blogger Chris Mallory June 29, 2015 8:36 AM  

"Judeo-Christian" does not exist. Judaism is anti Christian.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown June 29, 2015 8:38 AM  

We know, per Cicero, that democracy leads to aristocracy. But does cultural degeneracy precede theocracy?"

Given that the Bush and Clinton clans have emerged as our de facto aristocrats, cultural degeneracy has most certainly preceded theocracy.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 June 29, 2015 8:44 AM  

indpndnt
the gag gets better, Marriage includes parental blessing, conjugal rights, willingness to conceive off spring for no other reason than obedience to God.
ipso facto: love honour and obey a man,
ie. for this reason a child will leave their parents;
be fruitful and multiply is arguably the first commandment in creation.

WORD of God, smashes like a 2.4 km wide asteroid travelling roughly 42 kilometers per second. That has substantial momentum by the way. Ha Ha Ha. It won't just be good, It will be very good.

Anonymous Mike M. (Minion 315) June 29, 2015 8:44 AM  

Given that there seems to be a cycle of about 100 years between a secular and a religious phase, I think we're looking at another 10 years. There should be an abrupt shift around 2025.

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2015 8:46 AM  

It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.

They were not easily moved,
They were icy -- willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.

Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.

Anonymous p-dawg June 29, 2015 8:50 AM  

@ indpndnt: Marriage is nothing more than a contract. That's legally what it is. You might not agree with that, but your opinion doesn't influence the law. What do you think the exchange of vows is? Remember that all contracts are oral contracts, and written contracts are simply the highest and best evidence that an oral contract exists. When two people promise consideration to each other, that is a contract. Divorce is the dissolving of that particular contract. Reality is what it is, not what you wish it was.

Blogger AmyJ June 29, 2015 8:51 AM  

Have been doing a study of the minor prophets the last week or so, and it strikes me that, though no other nation on earth ever enjoyed the favor of being the Chosen of God, American has been a prime example of what a nation of mostly Believers can accomplish. Which means it is also a prime example of what can happen to a nation that rejects God in favor of the world.

Though the prophets were speaking directly to Israel and Judah, their warnings to wicked, godless nations carries through the ages. Knowledge of God decreasing steadily by the generation? Rejection of God to worship the baalim? Attacks on and mockery of the righteous? Decadence and entertainment attained at the expense of the poor? Political prostitution, lying, and underhandedness with allies? Weak, impotent, and evil rulers? A corrupt legal system? The embracing of sexual deviation through cult behavior? A whole lot of "religion", but no piety or true repentance? A slow culling via infertility? Invasion and degradation at the hands of outsiders? It all sounds too familiar.

We may achieve a theocracy eventually, but history says we may have to pass through doom, destruction, and exile first to get there.

Anonymous redsash June 29, 2015 8:51 AM  

It is as simple as the CLN. Christian libertarian nationalists. Christian culture and values (not Judeao-Christian there is no such thing, no cults, women denied suffrage, only Christians can vote, own real property, or hold elective or appointed office), libertarian (small government and fewer taxes, if we are not killing, raping, or robbing leave us the hell alone), nationalist (English only in all transactions, closed borders for a generation, no visas period, deportation of everyone not born in U.S. since 1990 including anchor babies). Wasp culture perserved, but there will be blood shed.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 8:53 AM  

"Contracts about property . . ."

. . . are not the only forms of contract. "I'll meet you under the clock at noon," is a contract. The first and second covenants are contracts. "You will be my children, my people, and you will have no other gods before me," is a contract.

Contracts are not a function of government. Only the framework under which contracts are enforced is a function of government.

That said, the chief property governed by the marriage contract is children. The government must make marriage a matter of the government if it is to define itself as the owner of children.

Blogger Stephen Ward June 29, 2015 8:54 AM  

"How would you differentiate "cultural degeneracy" from "low paganism"?"

The low paganism will see the return of the practice of some Christian virtues (self-discipline primarily) and a renewed focus on practicing the requirements of a pagan religion. Cultural degeneracy is simply the pursuit of hedonism.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 29, 2015 8:59 AM  

""The last thing he or his people should want or encourage, is for the white man to abandon our historic restraints, to enter fully into an existential conflict with the Other.""

Who is the "Other" talking about multiculturalism? Who is the "Other" that created and propagates Cultural Marxism? Who is the "Other" that has instigated the dissolution of the European? It ain't the Muslim. Until you face the true "Other" there is no cure.

Given that the Bush and Clinton clans have emerged as our de facto aristocrats, cultural degeneracy has most certainly preceded theocracy.

Bush and Clinton are just the puppets. They are NOT the aristocracy of America. Who controls America and sets the culture? Who owns the Media in America? Who set up the Institutes of Social Research, which are really the cultural comissars, on American college campuses? Who? Bush and Clinton own no media outlets. Who is in control of every American President since Woodrow Wilson? Who has been their advisors? Who were the advisors to Bush and Clinton and Hussein? Those are the elite that run this country.

Nietzsche wrote:
"The democratic idea favors the nurturing of a human type prepared for slavery in the most subtle sense of the term. Every democracy is at one and the same time as involuntary establishment for the breeding of tyrants, taking the word in all its connotations, including those of a spiritual nature." (quoted by Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Liberty or Equality, pg 24)

Ibid, pg 28: "It was also De Tocqueville who foresaw, in a more precise and concrete way than all his contemporaries, the danger of an evolution from democracy--and especially from democratic republicanism--to tyranny".

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 29, 2015 9:02 AM  

An acquaintance of my bride is an old Algerian Muslim of the colonial school. Drinks wine (a little), feels guilty of eating sausage on pizza, etc.

She made a similar comment to my bride, that the muslims were out breeding the West. My bride made the comment that the West is among the most methodical and barbaric people in the world. We just haven't started yet.

Now it may be to late. That may come to pass. But the old Russian/Asiatic state is awakening, with the old goals. In the west, there are countries beginning to identify that they are a Christian nation, and will act like it (Christmas carol marches through the Turkish neighborhoods). Even the Greeks acting like Greeks fortells that the era of a grand Star Trek atheist utopia is coming to an end.

We are at a turning point, as Dan Calin states. We are in the prelude to what may be a very horrible opening act.

God be with us, God help us, for man is not known for his humanity to man.

Anonymous FriarBob June 29, 2015 9:02 AM  

@chris mallory

You clearly don't know anything about history, then. Modern Judaism is certainly not Christian but the early church was considered a mere sect of the Jews by the Romans.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:06 AM  

"Bush and Clinton are just the puppets. They are NOT the aristocracy of America."

Roland was of the aristocracy. He was not of the Royal family.

Anonymous Jonathan June 29, 2015 9:09 AM  

Exacly why I forsook libertarianism

Anonymous indpndnt June 29, 2015 9:10 AM  

@p-dawg

but your opinion doesn't influence the law

Probably because I'm not a supreme court justice.

I love it when everyone starts getting all technical about what a contract really is whenever I bring up that marriage goodies from the government aren't a right. Don't try to derail or ignore my main point with your pointless dialectic distraction.

Blogger Nate Winchester June 29, 2015 9:11 AM  

Or is it simply the decline into low paganism that I have anticipated?

Semi-off topic, but I wanted to mention the other day that in his radio derb podcast, Derbyshire mentioned almost the same thought you did in TIA only he labeled it "hot" and "cold" which is, IMO a bit more accurate and easier for people to grok. So in the above: "cold paganism."

Although... describing Dawkins et al as "hot atheists" might give them delusions of centerfold potential... so maybe there is room for both terms.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 29, 2015 9:11 AM  

“…quite explicit warning to the temporal power that their actions were calling their very legitimacy into serious question.”

The question has already been answered, FedGov is illegitimate. Has been since 1861. Recent events simply underline the answer.

The term “Judeo-Christian is a legitimate term as the morals of Christianity are deeply rooted in the Old Testament law.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 29, 2015 9:13 AM  

Socrates in Plato's Republic, Sec 564a:
Probably, then, tyranny develops out of no other constitution than democracy--from the height of liberty, I take it, the fiercest extreme of servitude".

Democracy breeds tryanny. Democracy in the kyklos turns into Tyranny, not aristocracy. Aristocracy means "Rule of the Best". That a single person or a small oligarchy rules in a Tyranny doesn't make it an aristocracy.

QUOTE: "In early times, according to Aristotle (Pol. E 5. 1305^{a} 7 ff.) democracies used to give rise to tyrannies. The tyranny of Dionysius I of Syracuse is a notorious illustration from later history (see Grote c. 81). But tyranny had other origins as well: it constantly appeared for example during the transition from Aristocracy to an oligarchical form of government (Whibley Gk Olig. pp. 72—83). Plato deliberately selects that particular origin which accords with his psychological standpoint. In the decline of an individual soul, ‘lawless’ or unnatural (παράνομοι) desires succeed the ἰσονομία in which all desires are treated as equal. Hence tyranny, which is only the political expression of unnatural desire, succeeds democracy in the fall of a State. Granted that Plato thought Athens was still degenerating, he must certainly have expected her, unless the process of decay should be arrested, to end in a tyranny.(James Adam, The Republic of Plato, commentary from Perseus Search)

Athens suffered many tyrannies. Athens was constantly in turmoil and suffering the kyklos.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:13 AM  

FriarBob:

It was the Church that ran Marcion out of town on a rail for asserting that Christianity had no Jewish roots. They understood full well what without provenance Christianity was a new religion, i.e. pulled out of someone's arse.

Without a First Covenant, there could be no Second Covenant.

Blogger HalibetLector June 29, 2015 9:14 AM  

Individual Americans are going to have to start asking themselves some very hard questions..

Like "What is the constitution?" Don't be surprised to get a lot of blank stares at that one from the younger generations.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 June 29, 2015 9:17 AM  

p-dawg,, do you seriously accommodate LEGAL FICTION ? in a gold braided flag admiralty court? Rabbit holes this wide and deep consume entire ships in a vortex. Never to be seen again.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:18 AM  

Q."What is the constitution?"

A: "A piece of hemp paper, duuuude. Roll it up and smoke that puppy."

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2015 9:22 AM  

The term “Judeo-Christian is a legitimate term as the morals of Christianity are deeply rooted in the Old Testament law.

What happened in the 1940s that would make someone want to tack Judeo onto Christian?
Google N-gram Judeo-Christian

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 29, 2015 9:23 AM  

I've had thoughts like these about Al Sharpton and his gang of activists before.


Whites oppose racism because we actually believe that it is *bad*, and we believe that the whole of society is better off if we don't have any of it. The discovery that the people on the other side of the race question don't agree with us is very, very bad, for those people on the other side. Our side has most of the guns, most of the wealth (meant in terms of concrete assets and skills in addition to money terms), and the most social and cultural cohesion. We might have our political differences, but most of us actually *like* law and order.

If whites actually turn against blacks again, it will turn out *very badly* for blacks. The elephant might not want to squish the mouse, but if the mouse keeps biting the elephant's tail it's eventually going to get tired of that mouse.

Blogger VD June 29, 2015 9:24 AM  

Democracy breeds tryanny. Democracy in the kyklos turns into Tyranny, not aristocracy. Aristocracy means "Rule of the Best". That a single person or a small oligarchy rules in a Tyranny doesn't make it an aristocracy.

Plato was wrong. Cicero was right.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:25 AM  

Roundtine:

What is The Law?

Anonymous Dirtnapninja June 29, 2015 9:25 AM  

Alexis De Tocqueville, Democracy in America:

" It is indeed difficult to conceive how men who have entirely given up the habit of self-government should succeed in making a proper choice of those by whom they are to be governed; and no one will ever believe that a liberal, wise, and energetic government can spring from the suffrages of a subservient people.

A constitution republican in its head and ultra-monarchical in all its other parts has always appeared to me to be a short-lived monster. The vices of rulers and the ineptitude of the people would speedily bring about its ruin; and the nation, weary of its representatives and of itself, would create freer institutions or soon return to stretch itself at the feet of a single master."

OpenID countenance June 29, 2015 9:26 AM  

Definitely. Once the white right has figured out that democratic republicanism and Constitutionalism and Americanism have both done nothing but work against them, even as the white right has spent most of its existence swearing allegiance to them, then Katie bar the door. That's when and where the dark enlightenment will come in.

Blogger VD June 29, 2015 9:28 AM  

The term “Judeo-Christian is a legitimate term as the morals of Christianity are deeply rooted in the Old Testament law.

No, it is not. Judeo-Christian is about as Christian as Social Justice is justice. That's the whole point of the modifier. Marxism sprang from from capitalism too, but we don't describe his economic system capitalo-socialism.

You can reasonably use "Judeo-Christian" when you start offering sacrifices and living by Old Testament Law.

OpenID countenance June 29, 2015 9:29 AM  

Also, I have been amused for quite some time by this notion that some right-libertarians peddle when saying that public entities shouldn’t be in the marriage business, that marriage should be purely a contractual matter between interested individuals. To me, that’s a cop-out, mainly because the right-libertarians who peddle it are caught in between the rock of being on the right and being around social issue conservatives and the hard place of being libertarian and therefore being scared witless of social issues.

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2015 9:32 AM  

What is The Law?

Do you ever refer to Athenian-American democracy or the Roman-American Republic?

Blogger ddddddd June 29, 2015 9:34 AM  

I can't wait for all the happy gay marriage stories. Chicken soup for the soul.

People in this country are obsessed with entertainment. They accept the messages given to them by the propagandists through their entertainment and all their buddies will boo them down if they disagree.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 29, 2015 9:35 AM  

Democracy breeds tyranny, true. But tyranny IS tyranny. That's why your forefathers warned that revolutions are necessary.

As for the distinction between aristocracy and tyranny, it is a distinction without a difference.
Taken seriously it is an ideal never realized. Even taken pragmatically it becomes solely a conflict of opinions as to who is "best".

Or, in Wheeler's case, who is worst.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:44 AM  

" Do you ever refer to Athenian-American democracy or the Roman-American Republic?"

Literally, no. In practice, yes. That is to say that I do not contemplate the principles of the American republic without referring to the Athenian and Roman republics.

The principles of the latter are woven in to the principles of the former. Demokratia is a Greek word. It is a part of the foundation of Western Civilization.

Anonymous Reason Magazine Subscriber and Millennial voter June 29, 2015 9:49 AM  

There is a huge socially-liberal, economically-conservative base in this country. Millions and millions of millennials are reaching voting age. If you guys will just submit to gay marriage... give up your guns and churches... and basically agree to the current levels of social welfare and.. then I am certain you can make common cause with the majority of this country. Just make a few concessions, OK? I promise we'll all come out ahead. Just turn the GOP a little leftward, and it will be in power for decades.

Anonymous Dr. Doom June 29, 2015 9:53 AM  

Everything is going as I have foreseen. I told you all this was Weimar 2.0 a long while ago, and lo and behold it is now coming to pass. All the degeneracy, all the corruption and all the unpayable bankers' bills. Hyperinflation and riots followed by Civil War are now the future.
Democracy and egalitarianism is about to die. A New Order will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes of the United States. White America is the only America there was, is, or shall be. All the fake Americans will die or flee the Coming Storm. Make no mistake, there is a Storm coming!

Anonymous cheddarman June 29, 2015 9:53 AM  

I personally find it hilarious that the U.S. will probably explode right after the last boomer has retired.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 9:55 AM  

Cheddarman:

The fuse was lit by the Old Men of Versailles.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell June 29, 2015 9:59 AM  

I'm hoping that when the IRS ends tax exemptions for religious organizations that a great backlash comes. It won't however.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell June 29, 2015 10:00 AM  

People tend to believe whatever the media tells them. Many don't but they are firmly in the minority.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 29, 2015 10:02 AM  

Gays and the lesbians are going to make national liberation feasible, gay narcissism will drive them to be absolutely hated and lesbians have gone from being the gal you could drink beer with to one you want no where near you

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 29, 2015 10:04 AM  

Aristotle's Good forms of government are Monarchy, Aristocracy, Politiea (Mixed Governments/Republics. Aristotle's Bad forms of government are Tyranny, oligarchy, democracy. How does a Bad Form degenerate into the Good form of Aristocracy?

If we look at the Roman Republic which suffered the kyklos. How did it begin? Around 100 B.C when the tribune Saturninus brought forward redistribution land decree which had embedded in it a clause which said that the Roman Senate had to publicly swear an oath and could not upon pain of punishment and expulsion oppose the people's will. The people were made soverign over its traditional institutions. Civil war erupted. This turned the Roman Republic into ochlocracy, i.e. mob rule. Then, Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with his legions using this as a pretense to set himself up as tyrant.

The Roman Republic was a politiea, mixed government. The Good Form. Erik von Kuenhelt-Leddihn recognizes that yes this was in accord with Plato's observations. Where did the Roman Republic turn into an Aristocracy?

Anonymous Trouble June 29, 2015 10:04 AM  

Oh, my, there's trouble in River City! Gay marriage! With a capital G and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool!

"There is a huge socially-liberal, economically-conservative base in this country."

Yes, and while we do not like SJWs and the hyper-left, we don;t like the hyper right, either. We will fight you and your little theocracy. Not that any of you will ever actually get up of your asses and do anything, though, much less be any sort of "Storm". Storm, with a capital S and that rhymes with F* and that stands for fools.

"if we are not killing, raping, or robbing leave us the hell alone"

Ha ha ha! Yeah, that'll work.

---
* kinda




Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey June 29, 2015 10:08 AM  

"Everything is going as I have foreseen. I told you all this was Weimar 2.0 a long while ago, and lo and behold it is now coming to pass. All the degeneracy, all the corruption and all the unpayable bankers' bills. Hyperinflation and riots followed by Civil War are now the future. Democracy and egalitarianism is about to die. A New Order will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes of the United States. White America is the only America there was, is, or shall be. All the fake Americans will die or flee the Coming Storm. Make no mistake, there is a Storm coming!"

Well said. I saw all of this coming, too. It's going to get worse. Civil War 2.

The solution for the White Right is authoritarian government and Fascism, but few would admit it, or even see it.

OT: All I wanted when I was younger was to build a nice, productive, peaceful life surrounded by the people and things I loved. And I have. But what I face now is a world of increasing conflict and impending war. Perhaps in the coming conflict we find our specific purpose?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2015 10:14 AM  

Plato was wrong. Cicero was right.

I'll be studying Cicero next year, so I'm interested to see how he lays it out and defines the terms. But Plato defines aristocracy as the rule of the good, of the best, most virtuous citizens who are ruled by reason. By that definition, the Bushes and Clintons don't qualify (it's questionable whether anyone really would, but they don't come close). They would be oligarchs (rule by the wealthy), which is the stage Plato says aristocracy devolves to, perhaps going through timocracy (which doesn't seem to appear very often), and then oligarchy devolves to democracy.

Having only read Plato, it seems to me that the US was an attempt to create a hybrid aristocracy and democracy. Since it started as a partial democracy, it couldn't devolve to that, so it messes up Plato's cycle. Some of the founders may approach Plato's concept of the aristocrat, men who really weren't out for their own power and wealth, but were trying to do the right thing for the nation. And the original setup of the Senate and the electoral college was a way to try to keep at least some control in the hands of the "best." But it started turning into oligarchy almost immediately, so now we have an oligarchy with democratic trappings, which is giving us the grasping control of the oligarchs plus all the negative aspects of democracy that Plato describes, especially the idolizing of tolerance and license.

But at this point, there's no tyrant on the horizon to take us to Plato's next step, and it's not clear to me that one can arise given the oligarchs' hold on the media, so maybe it breaks down there and we go back to oligarchy. This isn't Athens, where one man could start shouting in the forum and reach a significant part of the population. If Carlos Slim and Google and Hollywood and Madison Avenue all agree that someone should not be heard, maybe he won't be. While the Internet has loosened their stranglehold on public discourse somewhat, most ordinary people I talk to still recite the media's talking points on things.

I'd think it depends on how bad things get. As long as there are enough bread and circuses, the oligarchs will be able to hold power. Plato says the tyrant appears when license and tolerance have brought anarchy and the people look for a strong man to save them from it. We aren't there yet, though last week was a big step in that direction.

Blogger VD June 29, 2015 10:19 AM  

We will fight you and your little theocracy.

With what? By putting a rainbow flag on your Twitter profile? Strong stuff!

OpenID countenance June 29, 2015 10:22 AM  

We're also experiencing peak baby boomer. The boomers now range between 55 and 69 years old, and are therefore at their zenith in terms of running things, exercising serious control over serious institutions. And it's no surprise that such a narcissistic rotten spoiled generation that really had no real struggles would create the world that we're in. The millennials are nothing more than the generation that you knew that their parents, the boomers, would beget.

I think that the boomers aging out of power positions will mean a huge paradigm shift. It's only matter of a shift to what.

Blogger njartist June 29, 2015 10:34 AM  

@11. Chris Mallory June 29, 2015 8:36 AM

"Judeo-Christian" does not exist. Judaism is anti Christian.
True.
The true expression of Judaism is Judeo-Bolshevism: hell, they even bragged about it.

Anonymous Nathan June 29, 2015 10:36 AM  

"We will fight you and your little theocracy. "

Considering how quickly people are embracing the deification of Love (Eros, or puppy love) as the highest virtue, I think you have your guns pointed at the wrong theocracy. Feelgood Love Without Responsibility is the lord of this land.

Blogger njartist June 29, 2015 10:40 AM  

@23. FriarBob June 29, 2015 9:02 AM

@chris mallory

You clearly don't know anything about history, then. Modern Judaism is certainly not Christian but the early church was considered a mere sect of the Jews by the Romans.


I suggest you learn your history.

Blogger El Borak June 29, 2015 10:40 AM  

No one expects the Thermidorian Reaction.

Blogger James Dixon June 29, 2015 10:44 AM  

> That my people are the most cold-blooded mass murderers this world has ever seen, having perfected the art of slaughter on an industrial scale and (via the atomic bomb) on the post-industrial scale.

I've tried to explain that to people before. I just get blank looks. Oh well, every generation must find out for itself that the stove is hot. Looks like it'll be time for another lesson very soon.

> I'm really tired of hearing marriage called a right to contract.

The government version of it is. But then marriage has never really been a government institution.

> What was established is not a 'right to marry', but rather access to government goodies and some legal shortcuts for particular kinds of relationships.

Being members of the government, they don't understand the difference.

> It was completely broken in 1861.

Yep. A union which is not voluntary is not a union.

> Marriage is nothing more than a contract. That's legally what it is

Legally, yes. But marriage isn't only a legal institution, and predates our legal systems by millennia.

Anonymous bw June 29, 2015 10:46 AM  

wondering if even this more practical and pragmatic approach is logically consistent with real-world human behavior.

While I note you're simply trying to push and nudge the reluctant a little further down the natural and logical road, you already know that only a homogeneous ethnic, spiritual and educated culture can thrive in the relative liberal freedoms of 19th Cent America - as it in fact did.

Since the weakness in Liberalism (Libertarianism) has been exploited to the max by the collective networks - that is how they've pulled it off; the jury is still out for me if it was the plan from the get go - it sure as hell won't be anything resembling that if the Tower of Babel and the money changers of the Temple are to be taken down.
It's about true Power at that point, and the issue will continue to be whether phony White conservatives will wake up and dump the century of lies (circa 80% R. vote is White?) concerning business and Corps and the MIC, and whether their biggest adversaries, Globalist, Socialist Egalitarian Whites (D.) dump their lies and liars as well.
Both are really tied at the hip with the new world religion of Equality.
There's a reason it is Whites who are being genocided and browned.
There seems to be little light in the material realm - outside of the power of nature which has been subsumed of late - but there's always Kipling, who noted that it takes awhile for the Saxon to stir, but if and when he does....

When Euros and decendants, for whatever reasons or beliefs, have been trained to see the actual positive of their own race and culture and heritage and language etc as a definitive negative (apparently the only ones that must see theirs as such) - to the point of allowing it to be subsumed and displaced - whether in the name of economic globalism and Oneness or in Jesus' false name (Churchianity), then we are in a world of shit.



Anonymous Alexander, #10 June 29, 2015 10:49 AM  

Rallying call of pro-immigrant, pro-gay liberals.

Any Theocracy but a Christian one!

Anonymous bw June 29, 2015 10:54 AM  

We will fight you and your little theocracy.

You're too stupid to realize that is has simply been your very Theocracy that has been winning and has currently "won" - your radical, blind faith in the State and the lies of the monopoly capitalists who own it. It's not for the good of humanity, honey, but rather the exact opposite.

But what do you care, you're just psych desperate to be accepted by your substitute father.

Anonymous Cole June 29, 2015 11:09 AM  

Delurking to sadly agree. It isn't a problem of government. It is a problem of people. And we won't return to a limited government until we separate the wheat from the chaff. I pray for us all. Not for what will be done to us, but for what we will be forced to do to others.

Anonymous Daniel #0189 June 29, 2015 11:12 AM  

Cail, read Cicero now. You'll be able to dispense with your hybrid theory astonishingly quickly.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 June 29, 2015 11:19 AM  

Hey don't pick on Trouble, Vox. I've got a rainbow on my profile picture too.

Anonymous ZhukovG June 29, 2015 11:21 AM  

It seems to me that the only thing which holds the Union together is the relatively comfortable standard of living. It is ironic that just like the RMS Titanic, even our nation's 'steerage' passengers enjoy an unprecedented level of comfort.

So, I am curious. Will we Christians only take action when our material comfort is at last threatened? And what does this say of our faith? Who is our Lord?

I ask these things not to accuse, but to confess my own hesitancy.

Then again, I may only get one chance to make a difference. I don't want to waste it stabbing wildly at a windmill.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 29, 2015 11:21 AM  

With apologies to Wanda:

"Don't call me an idiot! Idiots don't read Plato!"

"Yes they do, W; they just don't understand it."

Keep quoting. You show all the signs of education sans understanding.

"With all thy getting, get understanding!"

Anonymous Noah B. June 29, 2015 11:24 AM  

"Not that any of you will ever actually get up of your asses and do anything..."

Historically speaking, this is a very unenlightened opinion.

Anonymous FriarBob June 29, 2015 11:26 AM  

Sacrifices, no. Reread Hebrews more carefully next time. But the apostles never stopped keeping the rest. It was the illegitimate pretenders who came after them that did that.

The term has clearly been misused and abused since then. But the fundamental root accuracy of the concept in original form is not changed by that.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 29, 2015 11:29 AM  

@bw

I would argue that coercive monopolies (which is the type I assume you are referring to) are antithetical to capitalism, but your point is understandable in any case. Would you mind saying "cronyism" in the future?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 29, 2015 11:30 AM  

The great thing about living among Christians is their faith gives them a way to feel good about themselves without needing to boss me around. Now, granted, most Christians have fallen short of that ideal throughout history, and some have fallen very far short of it, but the Christianity that we had in the US from before the (I guess we should start saying First) Revolution up until the 1950's or 60's was one that did much to squelch people's desire to tell others what's what.

But what we have now - Churchianity on the one hand and Neopagan Leftism on the other - gives people neither inner peace nor a struggle within themselves that they can wage. It's all externalized. Goodness and morality are no longer measured by how well you live your life, but rather by how strongly you attempt to change the ways of others. That is one reason the SJWs are never satisfied no matter what concessions you make to them - they're not interesting in the particular subject, they're just trying to force you to change. From what to what is irrelevant, it is the exercise of power that attempts to fill the void in their souls.


Anonymous FriarBob June 29, 2015 11:30 AM  

I see SJWs arent the only people capable of projection...

Anonymous Anonymous June 29, 2015 11:37 AM  

God be with us, God help us, for man is not known for his humanity to man

That is quotable, powerful and true.

God will be with his people on earth, it will however be different than most people think.

When Jesus said John 18:36 that his Kingdom was not part of this world, (the world that VD rightly points out is ruled by Satan as its god), why does any one think the US or any other government will be helped by God?

Daniel 2:44 is the answer.

We wait, obey, teach and trust. Its way easier said then done

Anonymous cheddarman June 29, 2015 11:38 AM  

ZhukovG,

I agree with you totally that the only thing holding the U.S. together is economics. That became apparent to me when i moved from southern ohio to northern Vermont...it was mostly godless and cold as hell, and felt like being in another country that spoke american english

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 29, 2015 11:39 AM  

Jack;

Exactly. That's the point of my Tolstoy quote, too. It's all externalised.

Anonymous montyDraxel June 29, 2015 11:42 AM  

Seeing as all the major influential institutions - media, education, and some churches, have been taken over by radical lefties for some time, and mass third world immigration occurring as we discuss this subject, hard to see any reasonable way to save the USA.

Let us hope the ensuing demise of this unique nation is not entirely violent.

Blogger Kaijubushi June 29, 2015 11:44 AM  

Where should I start regarding Cicero? Want to get read up on it.

Blogger hank.jim June 29, 2015 11:50 AM  

Is marriage a contract? This doesn't make sense to me. No one has held a man or woman up to a contract while married. A contract is enforced when one is divorced or dead. In divorce, a new dissolution agreement is made up unless a prenuptial agreement exists. If one spouse has died, the marriage gives the surviving spouse more rights, but cannot be relied to divide property.

To redo the marriage as a contract, everyone needs to draw up prenuptial agreements. It is just a marriage license at this point. It gives sexual consent to the spouse, gives parental rights to children, and right to divide marital assets. These terms would be subject to negotiation at every marriage and should be renegotiated throughout the marriage.

A religious ceremony mainly centers on spiritual issues and marital compatibility. The marital vow is presumed to be a lifetime commitment, which doesn't always happen so how do we have a contract in this sense? A Christian wedding can't predict its dissolution before it begins.

I disrespect the Catholic approach to annulment in any case. They can't whitewash a divorce. Perhaps its time for Catholics to have real contracts so they know what they're signing up for or contractually prevent annulments.

Anonymous Pinky June 29, 2015 11:56 AM  

Anyone who thinks America's better future will be built by the kind of radical theist commenting here are nuts. Demographics and the cultural and intellectual trends will forbid it.

Blogger Nobody June 29, 2015 11:58 AM  

...the West is among the most methodical and barbaric people in the world. We just haven't started yet.

God doesn't give a crap about how super bad Americans think they are.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 12:00 PM  

Cheddarman:

Both the U and the S are required to make the U.S.

The U.S.A. was not conceived as a nation state. The states were conceived as states. They are fully operational without any federal government whatsoever. The Constitutional Convention was convened over economic issues between the states.

The federal push to eliminate states' rights is the attempt to create an American nation state. A nation state with which the traditions and cultures of the U.S.A. are entirely incompatible.

And so it would seem inevitable that there will be a second civil war, which this time will result in weakening the federal government instead of strengthening it, or succeed in dissolving the union entirely.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 12:04 PM  

"The marital vow is presumed to be a lifetime commitment . . ."

From whence does that presumption arise?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 29, 2015 12:05 PM  

Judeo-Christian is about as Christian as Social Justice is justice. That's the whole point of the modifier.

Didn't Peter and Paul have that argument 1,970 some odd years ago in Antioch? I always assumed Paul won too.

The fuse was lit by the Old Men of Versailles.

And the Boomers did nothing to stamp it out. That is their unforgivable failure.

Anyone who thinks America's better future will be built by the kind of radical theist commenting here are nuts.

Of course, in times of chaos optimists are often called nuts. It certainly could be howling mobs of bloodthirsty barbarians instead of us. Time will tell.

But, either way, the "cultured and intellectual" types like Pinky will die in a ditch somewhere. Regardless of who runs the show on the other side of this crisis, that much we know will be true.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 12:15 PM  

"And the Boomers did nothing to stamp it out. That is their unforgivable failure."

Nor did the Greatest, or the Silents, or the Xers. Each in their turn has added their own variety of accelerant.

Blogger Nobody June 29, 2015 12:15 PM  

From whence does that presumption arise?

So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.

Blogger Nobody June 29, 2015 12:17 PM  

Presumption --> got it.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 29, 2015 12:19 PM  

We know, per Cicero, that democracy leads to aristocracy.

So what will it be queen HilLIARy or prince Jeb?

What, you mean the Social Justice Warriors will turn into wilting pink pussy willows once the day of flying lead arrives?

In reality they are more like the woman who denies her partner beats her until her dying day.

deportation of everyone not born in U.S. since 1990 including anchor babies).

The Dominican republic is deporting all Haitians that don't have a blood ancestor since 1929. India has people earning a dollar a day but they all have IDs to vote. Think about how bad our affirmative action govt workers are in comparison.

Mr.MantraMan lesbians have gone from being the gal you could drink beer with to one you want no where near you

I am going to doxx MantraMan his real name is Methuselah.

"We will fight you and your little theocracy. "

The current theocracy whoreships equalism, and global warming. If you are smarter than a mestizo you will want merit based society.

Anonymous Drew_Deuce's June 29, 2015 12:19 PM  

I'm not sure the US would go theocracy unless Christ Himself is the ruler (of course, at that time He will reign over the whole earth). I don't see the church, or Christians in general, having the stones to do the things that are required to adequately rule. I belive God's plans now are to bring the whole thing down, not transfer power of the government to the church.

I do, however, expect the Church to grow in both numbers and influence as the low grade paganism and chaos set in.

But you're right about the severing connections to the Constitution, nationalism, the American Dream, etc. Our kingdom is not of this world. US ≠ God's Kingdom.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 29, 2015 12:20 PM  

James Adam on his commentary on Plato's Republic (from Persues)

563E - 566D Such is the seed which developes into Tyranny, excessive freedom generating excessive servitude, in accordance with a common law. The drones wax more numerous and violent, and ruin the democracy in course of time as once they ruined oligarchy. A democratical State contains three classes of citizens (1) the drones, stinging as well as stingless, (2) the rich who serve as drones' provender, (3) the Demos, with whom the sovereignty lies. The most active members of the drone-fraternity become leaders of the Demos against the rich. By dint of extortion and calumny the propertied classes are at last compelled in self-defence to form an oligarchical party. Hence arise impeachments etc., and the people range themselves under a single Champion. As in the fable he who tasted human flesh became a wolf, so this Champion of the People, as soon as he spills the blood of fellow-citizens, is doomed to become a tyrant. Civil war begins; the Champion is either driven from the city, and returns a full-fledged tyrant, or receives a bodyguard to protect him from secret assaults, and thus achieves his end.

The "drones" are the SJWs for today's context. They work tirelessly for the Cultural Marxists, for the cause Cultural Marxism.

Fredrick Engels, Jew and co-founder of Marxism, claimed that revolution is the most authoritarian thing there is. The SJWs are revolutionists and they have authority due to their progressive ideas. There is an cadre of elite in America, that run the culture and define the law and the ideology. It is about implementing the Utopia where everyone is free and equal. Christianity will be outlawed as a hate group. If you are not a progressive, you are evil. That is the mindset being taught by the media, by Hollywood and by schools, colleges, and universities. It is about the culture the formation of people and their minds. If you don't control that, you've lost the culture.

Blogger CM June 29, 2015 12:25 PM  

Isn't marriage a covenant?

Like the Old & New Covenants (and other contractural agreements in OT law), it involves blood...

So... contract?

Also, aren't the covenants established by God with His people illustrated in terms of a marital contract? Passages in Isaiah, Jeremiah, all of Hosea, and Ephesians 5:22+... not even touching Jesus' collection of marriage parables and his first miracle...

Just because the terms have been innately understood without explicit statement doesn't mean the terms don't exist.

To the OP... this first step to Theocracy... with what as god? Are you referring short term or seeing it in the long term? I do agree chaos breeds controlling governments, whether that's our current overreaching government, a monarcy, or theocracy...

But i don't see a traditional theocracy without a lot more breakdown over a significant time frame (i'm young... so my ideas of significant could be skewed downward) or outright takeover from islam.

Unless you aren't using theocracy in the traditional sense... in which case this comment is largely moot.

Blogger Dan in Tx June 29, 2015 12:26 PM  

"Now I find myself wondering if even this more practical and pragmatic approach is logically consistent with real-world human behavior."

Come Vox, join me in going full Nazi.

Blogger Bobo #117 June 29, 2015 12:29 PM  

"But the apostles never stopped keeping the rest. It was the illegitimate pretenders who came after them that did that."

Art thou referring to Paul? (I use questions like this as an informal IQ test)

Anonymous bw June 29, 2015 12:33 PM  

"Don't call me an idiot! Idiots don't read Plato!"
"Yes they do, W; they just don't understand it."


"What is unintelligible to me is not necessarily unintelligent" - Nietzsche

is the relatively comfortable standard of living -ZhukovG
That is the logical conclusion.
That is, in their own words, exactly how they have done/are doing it.
It is Huxley's serfdom through pleasure (Orwell's was force and fear, Huxley's pleasure drugs, etc). To wit:

Information, from the Internet to rock videos, will not be contained, and fundamentalism (read: sovereignty) cannot control its children. Our victims volunteer....There will be no peace. At any given moment for the rest of our lifetimes, there will be multiple conflicts in mutating forms around the globe. Violent conflict will dominate the headlines, BUT CULTURAL AND ECONOMIC (read: Banking) STRUGGLES WILL BE STEADIER AND ULTIMATELY MORE DECISIVE. The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. To those ends, we will do a fair amount of killing...
Contemporary American culture is the most powerful in history, and the most destructive of competitor cultures...we are the first genuine people's culture. It stresses comfort and convenience - ease - and it generates pleasure for the masses. We are Karl Marx's dream, and his nightmare...
Secular and religious revolutionaries in our century have made the identical mistake, imagining that the wokers of the world or the faithful just can't wait to go home at night to study Marx or the Koran (etc). Well, Joe Sixpack, Ivan Tipichni, and Ali Quat would rather "Baywatch".
America (the Rulers, NOT the people) has it figured out, and we are brilliant at operationalizing our knowledge, and our cultural power will hinder even those cultures we do not undermine. There is no "peer competitor" in the cultural or military department. Our cultural empire has the addicted - men and women everywhere - clamoring for more.
AND THEY PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF THEIR DISILLUSIONMENT...they are attempting to escape our influence (by attempting to reassert their threatened, sovereign identities). But American culture is infectious, a PLAGUE OF PLEASURE, and you don't have to die of it to be hindered or crippled in your integrity or competitiveness. The very struggle of other cultures to resists American cultural intrusion fatefully diverts their energies (and resources) from the pursuit of the future ("we are way ahead of you"). We should not fear the advent of fundamentalist or rejectionist regimes. They are simply guaranteeeing their people's failure, while further increasing our relative strength.


- Ralph Peters, US Army War College Paper: "Constant Conflict", 1997
Neo-Con, Office Deputy chief of staff for Intel, US Army Command, Staff College, frequent media personna FOXnews

( ) my emphasis added

And Ledeen talks about "Creative Destruction".
Imagine That.

Anonymous The Obvious June 29, 2015 12:35 PM  

"Muslim friend"

One or the other, never both.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 29, 2015 12:37 PM  

Let us hope the ensuing demise of this unique nation is not entirely violent.

Then I would have moved for no reason. That's unlikely given the massive chimp outs on 10-12-2013 when the food stamp system went down for 8 hours in 16 states, the Free Stuff Army will cull liberals for us because they think wearing an Obama shirt will save them.

Anyone who thinks America's better future will be built by the kind of radical theist commenting here are nuts. Demographicsl

About those demographics evolution didn't stop at the neck. Here is a firefighter afraid to fight fires because he knew about the affirmative action that died being too stupid to avoid a backdraft. http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/257068/affirmative-action-firefighter-refuses-fight-fires-daniel-greenfield ,here is a black EMT that refused to do CPR on a black baby http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/12575/outrageous_detroit_emt_worker_refused_to_respond_to_baby_who_wasn_t_breathing#.VZFxu2d3uUk ""I'm not about to be on no scene 10 minutes doing CPR, you know how these families get," that is what affirmative actions are willing to do for their own babies, so what would they do to contribute to your society?

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 12:39 PM  

Nobody: " Presumption --> got it."

CM: "Isn't marriage a covenant?"

Been there already in this thread.

"Just because the terms have been innately understood without explicit statement doesn't mean the terms don't exist."

The point is that what Nobody cites isn't a presumption. It is a statement of fact, in the form of a third party ratification of an oath already sworn by the contracting couple.

The terms are explicit. They are only "presumed" or "innately understood" by those who have not bothered to read the terms of the contract, or, for that matter, listen to the words coming out of their own mouths.

Anonymous Trouble June 29, 2015 12:43 PM  

Well, you all demonstrated the real trouble. I dared disagree with you fanatics and your fantasy Civil War II: Jesus Bugaloo, and you made all sorts of wild assumptions about who I am.

You are no different than the SJWs you get your hate on for. You're lashing out against bogeyman and stereotypes. You're not just adopting the tactics of the SJWs, you're truly becoming them. Only the lyrics are different. Conspiracies lurk in every shadow.

"With what? By putting a rainbow flag on your Twitter profile? Strong stuff!"

*snore* By ignoring you for the most part. You people won't do crap beyond voting for Hugos and harassing random SJW idiots.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 12:53 PM  

" . . . you fanatics and your fantasy Civil War II . . ."

Where we goin'?

We're goin' to get shot.

Any way I can get out of it?

Wipe that foam from 'round yer mouth.

Anonymous FriarBob June 29, 2015 1:00 PM  

Then read him a bit more carefully next time. Unless he had multiple personality disorder (and I don't believe that any more than you do) then he didn't actually say what you want him to have said.

This was the man who wrote that the law was "holy, just, and good" and pointed out that true faith in Christ *established* the law, and also the man who said "what now? Shall we sin all the more that grace may abound? God forbid!"

Peter didn't mention "untaught and unstable men [twisting his words] to their own destruction" for fun.

Anonymous GracieLou June 29, 2015 1:01 PM  

Odd, Disneyland, Niagara Falls, the White House and all things digital went rainbow-y at the same time. Like those colored bulbs just happened to be laying around--why a conspirist could almost theorize it was all a sure thing, that heavy grease met palms.

Driving down the road yesterday, husband and I saw a billboard advertising a gay wedding expo...all of a sudden an entire queertastical extravaganza bloomed out of nowhere like a toadstool, weird. Luuurrrvve wins! For a tiny fraction of the population. Couldn't POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with sticking it to the bourgeois and the future persecution of Christians, that's JUST CRAZY.

Comic I saw years ago: Two pigs are feeding from a trough a farmer has just filled. One pig is saying, "You know, I never really thought about it, I guess he's just a philanthropist or something."

Trigger alert, mystical ponderings. Being a teacher of art to little children I have concerns because children love rainbows. They love them to the point of obsession. The Our Lady of Good Success apparitions are a good read. They've been around and approved since 1635. They refer to the 20th century when "Satan would reign almost completely " Most of this is blamed on unfaithful clergy and secular education. "...the Sacrament of Matrimony, it will be attacked and profaned in the fullest sense of the word. Masonry, which will then be in power, will enact iniquitous laws with the objective of doing away with this Sacrament, making it easy for everyone to live in sin, encouraging the procreation of illegitimate children. The Christian spirit will rapidly decay, extinguishing the precious light of Faith until it reaches the point that there will be an almost total and general corruption of customs...Moreover, in these unhappy times, there will be unbridled luxury which, acting thus to snare the rest into sin, will conquer innumerable frivolous souls who will be lost. Innocence will almost no longer be found in children, nor modesty in women. In this supreme moment of need of the Church, those who should speak will fall silent." The part I think about whenever I see the rainbows, knowing children as I do is, " ...having infiltrated all the social classes, will be so subtle as to introduce itself into domestic ambiences in order to corrupt the children, and the Devil will glory in eating upon the exquisite delicacy of the hearts of children. During these unfortunate times, evil will assault childhood innocence."

But the prophecy ends happily. We win.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 29, 2015 1:02 PM  

Well, Mr Trouble, by my count two or three people opposed you. A couple called you names, and you manfully resisted lumping us all together because you're immune to all that flesh is heir to.

Oh, wait!...

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco June 29, 2015 1:05 PM  

"You people won't do crap beyond voting for Hugos and harassing random SJW idiots."

So, you have nothing to worry about.

So,

why are you here?

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 29, 2015 1:21 PM  

*snore* By ignoring you for the most part. You people won't do crap beyond voting for Hugos and harassing random SJW idiots.

Only 3% of the colonists fought against the British. Given that 2 escaped prisoners took NY state 3 weeks and every resource to capture, and that LAPD failure Dorner took all of CA with the national guard mobilized weeks to track down how few people that follow these plans I present to you to purge leftists?
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/mathematics-of-liberty-one-hundred.html
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/05/no-more-free-wacos-explication-of.html

If there is even one such person like this in each state it would overwhelm the governments capacity to stop them.
“We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand.

Blogger Retrenched June 29, 2015 1:36 PM  

In a sense we are already living in a theocracy, in which political correctness is the state religion and equality and diversity are our gods, before which all must bow or face severe consequences.

Blogger Retrenched June 29, 2015 1:46 PM  

In a sense we are already living in a theocracy, in which political correctness is the state religion and equality and diversity are our gods, before which all must bow or face severe consequences.

Blogger IM2L844 June 29, 2015 1:59 PM  

You are no different than the SJWs you get your hate on for.

Shut up, Tad.

Anonymous redsash June 29, 2015 2:01 PM  

The same tongue demanding that the Confederate flag be removed because of what it represents for a small segment of American society proudly sings Amazing Grace composed by a former slave trader. The most amazing thing of all is the sheer stupidity and hypocrisy of these revisionists.

Please note that the very first rino to call for the removal of the flag was Romney followed by governor Haley. And now that truth has given its inch, darkness will demand its mile. Next to go will be monuments, tombstones, even the very graves of soldiers who owned no slaves but who dared to stand up to tyrants and had the misfortune of being laid to rest on land that the federal government later acquired.

Also since Jesus spoke the world and universe into existence, would not Christianity predate Judaism?

Blogger CM June 29, 2015 2:08 PM  

Kfg,

It didn't seem settled from what I read - arguing whether it is a contract or not.

The latest post by VD quoting Mr. Cortes points out that contractural arrangements among early chistians did not require the government to legislate/validate them. And even so, God is the third party witness, but there are also bride's maids and groomsmen as witnesses... wasn't this their original purpose?

For some reason, the marriage vows completely were overlooked on my part. You're right, they are explicit.

I got to hank.jim's comment and wrote this and the argument of God's covenants mirroring marriage wasn't utilized... so i threw it out there.

Blogger Retrenched June 29, 2015 2:17 PM  

Anti-Democracy Activist's latest post is excellent (emphasis mine):

The truth of the matter is that the left hates Christianity because the left is a fanatical utopian cult, and Christianity represents competition in its space. There can be only one utopia, and only one true path by which it can be reached. Either it will be the Kingdom of Heaven, reached by following the Holy Word of Jesus Christ, or it will be the Whig/leftist “end of history” eschaton, reached by following the Holy Word of Equality. There is no room for both – for one to be true, the other must be false, and in order for people to accept one as true, they must reject the other as false. Anyone who attempts to find a middle way is a fool who is wasting their time on an impossibility. Leftists understand this, which is why they despise anyone of genuine Christian faith and treat those who practice “progressive Christianity” as mere useful idiots (which is precisely what they are).

https://antidem.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/short-takes-june-2015/

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 29, 2015 2:27 PM  

Nobody,

I wasn't talking about Americans.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 2:32 PM  

" . . .contractural arrangements among early chistians did not require the government to legislate/validate them."

Nor do I. State recognition serves only the purposes of the state. Note that the modern state does about everything it can to avoid becoming involved in common contracts, even after the state has been overtly invoked. Enforcement is work.

". . . God is the third party witness . . ."

Who appears in the form of a representative.

" . . . but there are also bride's maids and groomsmen as witnesses... "

Who appear as representatives of the community. A marriage ratified by God, but not the community, might well be a legitimate marriage, but it is likely to be a troubled one. See Romeo and Juliet.

Blogger Danby June 29, 2015 3:00 PM  

Damn, IM2L844 beat me to it

Still,

Shut Up Tad.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 29, 2015 3:02 PM  

"You people won't do crap beyond voting for Hugos and harassing random SJW idiots."

We already are, have been for a while.
The revolution will not be televised.
First rule of fight club.....

Blogger James Dixon June 29, 2015 3:23 PM  

> *snore* By ignoring you for the most part.

Promises, promises. We've heard them before.

Anonymous USD minded June 29, 2015 3:40 PM  

Why is he even making a comparison between marriage contracts and 'employer contracts'?
I'm amazed to see how many people on this blog think that two people, regardless of their gender identity, can't simply marry each other.
But then you quote Rand Paul who is saying that the decision was bad because employers agree to wages with their employees?

I honestly think some of you are just looking to complain for it's own sake. Because none of that quote portion makes a pinch of sense to me.

Anonymous bw June 29, 2015 4:12 PM  

You're not just adopting the tactics of the SJWs, you're truly becoming them. Only the lyrics are different. Conspiracies lurk in every shadow. Trouble

Do you know the definition of a conspiracy, honey? Do you know there are laws about it?
Can you count to two? Ok I'll spell it out - that's all that's needed to have one.

You're yet another excuse maker who lies to themselves that your politcal gods don't have bigger gods behind them, and that you haven't been ass raped by them due to what is in fact your own lack of due diligence and principle and knowledge and understanding.

Name for us some of these "SJW conspiracies"?

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 4:35 PM  

"I'm amazed to see how many people on this blog think that two people, regardless of their gender identity, can't simply marry each other."

I could be wrong, but I suspect it is because they believe the word 'marriage' exists to denote a state that is not the same as 'cohabiting fuck buddies'.

". . . none of that quote portion makes a pinch of sense to me."

Are you one of those who believes that the word 'marriage' represents the state of 'cohabiting fuck buddies'?

Anonymous ph2 June 29, 2015 4:46 PM  

according to Ace...
** Gay Reparations (!) .. are next:
ace.mu.nu/archives/357585.php

Blogger Groot June 29, 2015 5:24 PM  

@ScuzzaMan:

Germans vs. demographics: "my people are the most cold-blooded mass murderers this world has ever seen, having perfected the art of slaughter on an industrial scale" is a coldly historical, mildly-stated, horrifying, provable fact.

Don't worry, though, no matter the histrionics and over-reach we are about to see from the SJWs in response to recent Supreme Court decisions, there will be no backlash. This is a one-way pendulum. Go on, rub it in. Payback will not be a bitch. Relax.

Anonymous p-dawg June 29, 2015 6:09 PM  

@Chris Mallory: ""Judeo-Christian" does not exist. Judaism is anti Christian."

That's patently ridiculous. Judaism came first. It's pretty silly to say that it, as a thing, is anti something that didn't exist until thousands of years later. It's more logical to say that Christianity is anti-Judaism. However, considering that they share the same source material, any conflict must be coming from the people, since the source material contains no such conflict.

Anonymous ZT June 29, 2015 6:18 PM  

1 Samuel 8:

10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.

Anonymous BGS June 29, 2015 7:04 PM  

** Gay Reparations (!) .. are next:

LOL most of the gays kicked out during don't ask don't tell were actually str8s that wanted to get out and had a job already lined up.

If they are handing out 40 acres and a mule will gays get male mules and dikes female or will it be how the mule self identifies?

Blogger Groot June 29, 2015 7:05 PM  

"46. Reason Magazine Subscriber and Millennial voter June 29, 2015 9:49 AM
There is a huge socially-liberal, economically-conservative base in this country. Millions and millions of millennials are reaching voting age. If you guys will just submit to gay marriage... give up your guns and churches... and basically agree to the current levels of social welfare and.."

You are young, but hang out here a bit, and you will learn the disappointing truth inherent in your claims. Asking someone to give up their culture, their religion, and their economics is not the request of a liberal (small "l" or libertarian), social or otherwise. That is not live and let live. It is an inherently totalitarian despotic demand. Turn it on yourself, and see how offensive it is.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 29, 2015 7:29 PM  

VD, I think I found the text to which you refer. It is in the Laws, Book III, sec 32. Cicero writes that he disagrees with Plato that music changes the characteristics of a nation. Cicero remarks that it is the aristocracy, when it goes bad does.

He writes: "But I believe that a transformation takes place in a nation's character when the habits and mode of living of its aristocracy are changed. For that reason men of the upper class who do wrong are especially dangerous to the State, because they are corrupt, but also because they corrupt others, and do more harm by their bad examples than by their sins. ...[they] have the power either to corrupt the morals of the nation or to reform them".

Well I would agree. Plato and Cicero are both right. There are different circumstances and different affects will be present. The German classicist Werner Jaeger, brilliant guy, makes the point that the aristocracy creates the culture of the nation. They lead and their way of life filters down. It is like how "Trickle down economics" works.

America changed because not that Cicero's argument but a whole different situation occured. America changed because Black music started affecting America in the early 1900s. Jazz, then blues, and then Rock-n-Roll. It deteriorated the American character. Second, the aristocracy of America used to be land owning men. Well, they didn't grow corrupt like in Cicero's case but that the original aristocracy of America was supplanted by another foreign elite, the Jews. The Jews arose into positions of cultural power, of cultural formation, the colleges and universities. And their fellow goyim travellers, the Marxists. This all changed America. As Antonio Gramsci and Socrates both point out Culture defines Politics. The Nature of progressive ideas form the culture which then labels tradition was evil which must be stamped out, thus creating tyranny.

What Cicero writes is that the leadership of the elite form the culture. If they are bad, then the state becomes bad.

Anonymous clk June 29, 2015 8:03 PM  

"Also since Jesus spoke the world and universe into existence, would not Christianity predate Judaism?"

Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

Creation is the providence of the Father, salvation of the Son and grace the Holy Spirit.

Anonymous redsash June 29, 2015 8:13 PM  

p-dawg: They were first called Judeo-Christians at Antioch. Yes? No? Judeo-Christians met on the first day of the week. Yes? No? Split the difference? You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. That verse doesn't bode well for Judeo-Christians.

Anonymous redsash June 29, 2015 8:34 PM  

clk: In the beginning God...(Genesis 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:1-3)

Buddy, sounds like Jesus does a little more than just saves.

Anonymous bolo-toto June 29, 2015 8:37 PM  

Vox, have you ever heard of JB Campbell? He's pretty brutal. Some call him a white-supremacist. Scratch that, I'm thinking of Harold Covington. He's equally brutal. Then again, I'm sure there are some that wish to make Campbell out into a WS. Campbell simply wishes to reinstate the Articles of Confederation. Despite how much blood it would take ..

Anonymous Stilicho #0066 June 29, 2015 8:43 PM  

Rand Paul should be quite happy: he got he Supreme Court decision he wanted on gay marriage. He should also be pleased that he is getting his wish regarding the Confederate battle flag. The open borders he prefers are a reality, although the welfare system he opposes is still in place (and will remain so as long as those open borders keep letting in socialists who want such welfare). His pandering to black voters won't help his candidacy much, but it will, presumably, give him good feelz. All said, I expect he's quite pleased with the direction of the country aside from a few pesky economic issues (but one can't blame a certified "free trader" for economic ills tied to "free trade" or to the financial system that supports and profits from globalized "free trade" can you?).

Oh yeah, one more thing: Rand Paul can kiss my ass.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2015 8:53 PM  

(Genesis 1:1) in the summit Elohiym fattened the sky and the land

Anonymous Godfrey June 29, 2015 9:03 PM  

They'll let the dumb monkeys screw each other up the ass, but they'll never let them have economic freedom and financial independence.

Anonymous Didas Kalos June 29, 2015 11:58 PM  

Agreed! "Judeo-Christian" does not exist. Judaism is anti Christian."

Righteousness exalts a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people.

Sin always, always, always, brings judgment. Only with repentance can it be averted. And with only about 1,000 people in the USA even thinking we have a 'need' to repent (from abortions to bombing innocents since 1861 to the present GWoT) I just don't see it happening. Only the Lord Himself can work a work like we need. And it's not just the USA of course.

Anonymous rubberducky June 29, 2015 11:59 PM  

Vox, you ask, "But does cultural degeneracy precede theocracy? Or is it simply the decline into low paganism that I have anticipated?"

I don't know what you mean by low paganism, but I would submit that theocracy is but a symptom of cultural degeneracy, for both entail a retreat from reality and the obligation to deal with reality.

In this whirlwind of a past month, we've seen leftism toss aside fact (Jenner is woman who isn't; Dolezal is a sista who ain't). We've seen them toss aside history (Confederate flag; attacks on George Washington's and Thomas Jefferson's legacy). We've seen them toss aside language (renewed attempt to toss Shakespeare out of the curricula; SCOTUS's bizarre inventions on "exchanges established by the State"). We've seen them toss aside the notions of federalism and state sovereignty (SCOTUS' discovery that the Civil War's 14th Amendment obligated all states to license gay marriage; state legislature cannot draw up their own electoral districts; etc).

It's all one great untethering of the leftist mind from every signal that I can think of that might ensure healthy human development. It amounts to the very definition of Neitzshean "decadence", it's a denial of life, and it does constitute a theocracy.

They have just revealed that what they have done is blinded themselves. And now they are off in the bog chasing the will 'o wisp signals from their false gods. They are untethered by any feedback loop that might correct them, for reality is now what each individual subjectively "feels" it to be. And what each individual perceives cannot be questioned anymore than you can question Caitlyn Jenner why he's a 6'2" woman with an Adam's apple and a penis.

We're in for a crazy, stupid ride.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 30, 2015 12:11 AM  

Nor did the Greatest, or the Silents, or the Xers. Each in their turn has added their own variety of accelerant.

The Silents might claim ignorance, or good intentions. The Boomers have no excuse as it was all pretty obvious by the time they had political power.

But I'm curious, what is the accelerant you think GenX has added? Cause GenX hasn't had much political power yet. The US Senate has 61 Boomers and 16 GenX members. The House has 279 Boomers to 110 GenX. 6 of the 9 SCOTUSians were nominated by Boomers, exactly zero by GenX.

Citigroup CEO - Boomer.
BofA CEO - Boomer
Morgan Stanley CEO - Boomer

Anonymous Jack Amok June 30, 2015 12:23 AM  

I'm amazed to see how many people on this blog think that two people, regardless of their gender identity, can't simply marry each other.

It doesn't matter to me what they do or even what they call it. But what amazes me is how many people think that two people can do whatever they want have the government rough up anyone who doesn't applaud loud enough.

Gays don't need a piece of paper from the government in order to be "married." They've been getting "married" for a long time as it is. I know, I attended a gay wedding before such a thing was recognized by any state in the union.

Why they want government approval is so they can sneer in the faces of people who disagree with their morality, and invoke legal sanctions against anyone who doesn't enthusiastically approve. We've already seen the lawsuits against cake bakers, next will be preachers and churches.

Because we just can't tolerate the intolerant, can we?

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 1:29 AM  

"The Silents might claim ignorance . . ."

Things the Silents remember: The tail end of the nihilistic party on loose credit that was the Roaring 20s (the Golden Age of the progressives), Black Tuesday, The Great Depression, starvation, gold confiscation, the New Deal, fighting the world war - again (I have living relatives who spent their formative years during the first), ration coupons, MAD, the Korean War, military intervention in Vietnam, the destruction of the coinage . . . these are just some things that came before a single Boomer had ever voted.

The Silents have no claim on ignorance. And Silents are still waiting for the Greatest to frickin' die already so that they can finally inherit the power. Boomers are still waiting for the Silents to die. Get in line. The Millennials are already queing up. Don't trust anyone over 30.

" . . .or good intentions."

Everybody claims good intentions.

"The US Senate has 61 Boomers . . ."

And Xers voted for every one of them. And Obama. They're going to vote for Hillary too. OWS was packed with Xers. Xers are as old as 50. They are no younger than 30. If you haven't come to some position of power in this age range, you're not someone who is likely to.

Boomers, as a group, began to have political power circa 1980, and in America voted for Reagan. At the moment they number somewhere around 50 million in America, against somewhere around 200 million who are younger, but of voting age.

Xers are now in about the same position as Boomers were in 1990. Use it well. If Vox were elected the next president, he wouldn't set the record for youngest.

He won't be. Not because Boomers wouldn't vote for him, but because Xers wouldn't vote for him. He (and for that matter few regulars here) are representative of the generation. This is an enclave.

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 1:39 AM  

" . . .are NOT representative of the generation."

Anonymous rubberducky June 30, 2015 1:55 AM  

Stop this pitting one generation against the others. Blame games never help. Each generation plays the hand it's dealt. My parents (Boomers), did their level best with me (Gen-X'er), who in turn did my level best with my children (Millennials).

That's the general pattern.

Nobody is served by pitting all of us against each other. That's a leftist, Alinsky move.

The real problem, as always, is how do we proceed.

It is NOT: please all you folks die off.

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 2:07 AM  

"Nobody is served by pitting all of us against each other. That's a leftist, Alinsky move."

Exactly. But as long as I'm here, I'll point out that Alinsky was Greatest.

" . . .how do we proceed."

Prepare for war.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 30, 2015 2:12 AM  

119. I'm amazed at how many people on this blog think that two people regardless of their gender identity can't simply marry each other

Don't be silly. I doubt anyone her thinks that. If one of the two has XY chromosomes in every cell, and the other has XX chromosomes of course they can marry, no matter what fantasy they've got going on in their heads about their masculinity or femininity. That's nobodies business but theirs (and we'd just as soon be left out of it, thanks.)

Anonymous Jack Amok June 30, 2015 2:57 AM  

And Xers voted for every one of them.

So just for the record, what year were you born in kfg?

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 30, 2015 3:37 AM  

Echoing Plato, Cicero, in de re publica, writes:

"This extreme liberty gives birth to a tyrant and the utterly unjust and cruel servitude of the tyranny." Book I, sec. 68.

He goes on:

"...and curries favor with the people by bestowing upon them the property of others as well as his own. To such a man, because he has much reason to be afraid if he remains a private citizen, official power is given and continually renewed; he is also surrounded by armed guards, as was Pisistratus at Athens; and finally he emerges as a tyrant over the very people who have raised him to power. If the better citizens overthrow such a tyrant, as often happens, then the State is re-established;..."

That is exactly what Plato taught. But here, Vox is where your contention comes in. Continuing on from the paragraph above:

"...if it is the bolder sort who do so, then we have that oligarchy which is only a tyranny of another kind.
"
Look at the phrase "a bolder sort", that means a different kind overthrows the tyrant and replaces that one tyrant with their committee of petty little tyrants. Those not interested in a State for the good of all but for their own purposes.

"This same form of government also arised from the excellent rule of an aristocracy, when some had influence turns the leading citizens themselves from the right path".

Cicero remarks that an aristocracy provides "excellent rule". But when the aristocracy loses virtue and duty and become into self-aggrandizement, then they lose their character and lose the right path. The aristocracy exists to serve, not to be served.

Cicero continues:

"Thus the ruling power of the State, like a ball, is snatched from kings by tyrants, from tyrants by aristocrats or the people, and from them again by an oligarchical faction or a tyrant, so that no single form of government ever maintains itself very long." (ibid)

I think far from refuting Plato, Cicero is just adding another situation that arises. Aristotle notes that Good Government exists to serve the whole society. Bad government exists when the leadership takes the reigns of power for its selfish ends, to enrich itself.

A single person or a group of people can be tyrants. Those that disobey law and make it up by themselves. There is a good aristocracy and then there are bad aristocrats that become an oligarchy. The difference is virtue.

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 3:45 AM  

"So just for the record, what year were you born in kfg?"

I believe the rules of the blog require me to answer any reasonable, direct question, but will a Boomer who remembers changing the flags do?

And in a previous thread I have already stated what I think the chief failing of Boomers as a group is. They like to take credit for things they didn't actually do.

The music was not theirs, they only listened to it. Hendrix, Joplin, Dylan, Baez, Slick, Jerry, the people who invented and made the music - none of them Boomers.

The movement was not theirs, they only went along for the ride because it seemed like fun. Leary, Rubin, Hoffman, Ginsberg, Owsley, Fonda - none of them Boomers.

But Boomers like to believe that they did the things that these older people actually did (who are the people I spent almost all of my time with. I left school after 6th grade and took up a quasi adult life, which required being a refugee for a while).

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 30, 2015 4:01 AM  

In the very next section, Cicero continues his digression on the kyklos, i.e. the turning of governments:

Sec. 69, (Loeb, pg 103)

"Since this is true, the kingship, in my opinion, is by far the best of the three primary forms, but a moderate and balanced form of government which is a combination of the three good simple forms is preferable even to the kingship".

Balanced government is mixed government which is a true republic. Sparta and Rome had mixed governments which then is called a Republic. Cicero is affirming both Socrates/Plato, and Aristotle in the love of mixed government.

"For there should be a supreme and royal element in the state".

Now, the only state that had and kept the royal element was Sparta. Cicero starts the Roman Republic under Romulus and its line of kings. Can a cell exist without its nucleaus? Can a family exist without its father? So the state can't exist without its royal head. That was the Old Order.

Cicero continues:

"Some power also ought to be granted to the leading citizens, and certain matters should be left to the judgment and desires of the masses." (mixed government) "Such a constitution, in the first place, offers a in a high degree a sort of equality, which is a thing free men can hardly do without for any considerable length of time, and secondly, it has stability. For the primary forms already mentioned degenerate easily into the corresponding perverted forms, the king being replaced by a despot, the aristocracy by an oligarchical faction, and the people by a mob and anarchy".

Now in Plato, it is linear. From King, to Aristocracy, to politeia (mixed government), to democracy (which is ochlocracy), then to Tyranny. Then the Tyrant, makes his son to replace him thus creating kingship, and the cycle repeats itself. Here Cicero has each of the Good forms translate into its bad forms which is also can be right. Plato was taking an historical approach or historical progression.

"...but whereas these forms are frequently changed into new ones, this does not usually happen in the case of the mixed and evenly balanced constitution, except through great faults in the governing class".

Well, what happened in America is nothing what Plato nor Cicero conceived of--that of a foreign group, the Jews, replacing the ruling elite of our country. They co-opted the WASP. Or they wormed their way into the advisory role pointed out in the OT by Edith. That shows the paradigm of Jewish methodology by grabbing the fascination and ear of the WASP so turning him to do the Jew's bidding.

The faults of America: Masonic foundation, free speech, lack of xenelasia, no foundation concrete in Christianity, rejection of distinctions of rank, the excess of liberty and equality, and then letting in the Jews.

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 4:23 AM  

Jews (passing as Catholics) were settled in what is now US territory before the first Roanoke expedition. In 1621 the first Jew arrived in James City. By the mid 1600s they were settled in New England and New Netherlands.

There was no "country." It was a giant, international land grab and by the mid 1700s almost everyone who would be here was here already, vying for a piece of the New World pie.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 30, 2015 5:29 AM  

True, kfg but millions of Russian Jews came into this country in the early 1900s.

It doesn't help either that the Puritans were called "demi-jews" by the Anglicans. The Puritans resurrected the Gnostic/Jewish error of messianism, of correcting the errors of the world, fixing the world.

Because of Jewish influence in Europe, the dogma of the Trinity was attacked. They thought there was no sentifiic proof of the trinity and so many Europeans returned to a strict monotheism called Deism. Thomas Jefferson was a deist. So was Washington. That is where you get the Unitarian Church. Freemasonry rejected the trinitarian doctrine as well.

Basically, America is a country based on the so-called Enlightenment. The "Enlightenment" was an atheist movement with Jewish overtones or undertones.

America is basically right now a Marxist country. Fr. Hardon wrote about this in the seventies. Cultural Marxism, or social justice is the morality of the ideology of Marxism. It is about setting up, creating the conditions necessary for the Jewish messiah.

Anonymous kfg June 30, 2015 11:50 AM  

" . . .millions of Russian Jews came into this country in the early 1900s."

That fact is not unrelated to the former. They had a political power base before the country was formed. Quite a number of Russian Jews also came into this country after the Second Division of Poland, which increased their base, specifically favoring "Russian" Jews. Even the German/Dutch Jews hated them and tried to keep them out, but it was way too late for that.

"It doesn't help either that the Puritans were called "demi-jews" by the Anglicans."

It doesn't help that they thought of themselves that way either. Harvard and Yale taught Hebrew alongside Latin and Greek from the outset. Benjamin Franklin's design, backed by Jefferson and Adams, for the US seal depicted the Jews crossing the Red Sea.

"Basically, America is a country based on the so-called Enlightenment. The "Enlightenment" was an atheist movement with Jewish overtones or undertones."

And removing the Jewish over and undertones from scripture was declared heresy by the Roman Church in the second century. There is a claim (by the heretic himself it appears), that the book of John was actually authored as part of this heresy.

But if so even that is a failure. The "logos" of John was the formed by a Jewish philosopher living in Alexandria before the birth of Christ.

"America is basically right now a Marxist country."

They had their major victories in the 30's and have been working to consolidate them every since, but the Fascists aren't actually dead yet and are still putting up a fight. What we have now is a rather schizophrenic blending of the two, with the Marxists hoping to force the Fascists into creating one giant, world corporation as the workers utopia, and the Fascists hoping to force the Marxists into a feudal system with corporations as the great houses.

In either case they both wish to reduce We the People into social insect worker drones, which I can't say I'm in favor of.

Blogger Groot June 30, 2015 5:02 PM  

150. W.LindsayWheeler:

Father Hardon?! My wife calls me that sometimes.

Anonymous LegallySpeaking June 30, 2015 7:38 PM  

I think the best option to balance the libertarian/theocratic divide was the pre-Civil War struture of the governments of these United States:

1. Minimal federal regulation with the guaranteed freedoms therein.
2. Allowance of states, cities, towns, and local areas to formulate morality and religious doctrine.

We forget that in the pre-Civil War days states---of the United States---had state churches. Anne Hutchinson was expelled by the religious authorities of Massachusetts. Clarence Thomas has alluded to this in his writings; he believes that states should have the power to have stae-run churches.

So we go back to a confederation: autonomous areas with absolute control and regulation of the religion and morality, but some centralized means to deal with international relations, migration, etc.

Of course, that all fell apart anyway, so maybe we're doomed as a species to constantly have the best governmental plans collapse in the face of human evil.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 02, 2015 2:52 AM  

I believe the rules of the blog require me to answer any reasonable, direct question, but will a Boomer who remembers changing the flags do?

That''ll do, thank you. For what it's worth, I was born in '66.

Speaking of age, this comment thread is getting long in the tooth itself, but I'll both agree and disagree with your assessment of Boomers. Certainly they like to take credit for things they didn't do, but that's not their worst flaw. The worst flaw is failing to do anything at all. Perhaps they're related, your generation being too busy taking credit for other people's stuff to bother doing anything yourself, but...

The nature of our political system is (or at least was) that we could veer off course but a later generation would correct that. The GI generation and the Silents veered off course. Boomers, instead of trying to fix anything, doubled down on all the mistakes previous generations had made.

GenX hasn't had a chance to make any changes yet, and by the time we do, there won't be any pleasant options left to us. Which is why "We don't care" is the perfect motto. We know everybody will object. We don't care. Needs to be done anyway.

I think most Boomers would find those words awfully hard to say.

Anonymous kfg July 02, 2015 11:20 AM  

" Perhaps they're related, your generation being too busy taking credit for other people's stuff to bother doing anything yourself . . .."

Exactly. They rested on laurels that were not their own. I'll point out, however, that everybody was suffering from counter culture burnout at the time and the resignation of Nixon flipped a mental reset that lasted until the 90's.

"Boomers, instead of trying to fix anything, doubled down on all the mistakes previous generations had made."

I am of the opinion that the exigencies of the Depression and WWII tend to obscure the fact that that was the pattern of the 20th century and that the 60's were, in essence, a continuation of the 20's. The Boomers, however got off easy, as the 70's featured a nasty little recession, but not a full blown depression.

" . . .there won't be any pleasant options left to us."

I am of the opinion that that Rubicon was crossed circa 1965. Lucky you. It had almost nothing to do with the counter culture and very much to do with the destruction of what was left of the money. You'll be hard pressed to find that even mentioned in conventional accounts of the 60's, yet it was pivotal.

"I think most Boomers would find those words awfully hard to say."

I don't care, but then I spend most of my social time around Millennials these days. They may have their problems, but at least they're not 99 and 44/100's percent boring as fuck. When I appear to defend Boomers it is only in the interest of veracity. I have never identified with them and the only time I have spent with them as a "peer group" was in grade school, which was forced.




















I am of the opinion that the Depression

Anonymous kfg July 02, 2015 12:11 PM  

Well that's an interesting editing glitch. Either I haven't had enough coffee yet, or way too much.

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