ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, June 16, 2015

Before you can save civilization

You must first save yourself and help your fellow men do the same:
Benedict believed that idleness was the enemy of the soul. For the 21 st century layman, there have never been more opportunities for idleness. How many men do we know who constantly read articles on sites like Return of Kings but never actually do anything with what they’ve learned? How many of our brothers spend their free time drinking to excess, eating Doritos, playing video games, and generally wasting their lives away?

Aristotle, and later Saint Thomas Aquinas, described virtue as good habits. The virtuous man becomes that way by repeatedly doing good things. Those of us who have no plans to be monks can still derive much benefit from following a similar rule. Develop a set time for going to the gym, or reading good books, or engaging in prayer or meditation.

The idea behind monastic life is it is easier to live a disciplined life when we have friends who share the same goals and avoid those who do not. We can offer support to one another when we inevitably experience setbacks and failures. That is one of the great lessons offered by the Rule: be patient with yourself and others as you work toward your goals. Rome wasn’t built or destroyed in a day.

It’s worth noting that Benedict had no intention of saving Western civilization from itself.
Not the sort of thing one would normally expect to see on Return of Kings. It looks as if Roosh is indeed serious about exploring spirituality and eucivicism. And Beefy is right, too many conservatives are not only in love with the idea of noble defeat, but expect instant victory in a war without end.

Labels:

85 Comments:

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales June 16, 2015 12:11 PM  

Let's just hope he doesn't become like White Knight Leo.

Blogger JartStar June 16, 2015 12:12 PM  

The noble defeat comes second, as "expect instant victory in a war without end" has been the problem. The conservatives went to Noble Defeat only after abandoning the field as they grew tired of fighting and frustrated that they couldn't win once and for all.

Blogger Shimshon June 16, 2015 12:12 PM  

"...but expect instant victory in a war without end."

This is my feeling when I discuss big issues with right-leaning but otherwise mainstream folks. They fall for the political rhetoric every time. They really do believe all they need is five of "their" judges on SCOTUS and all will be well in the land. Even when you point out literally decades of betrayals just in modern American politics, for example, they still believe in the Unicorn of getting that single victory that will smash the SJWs once and for all.

Anonymous Viking June 16, 2015 12:16 PM  

Life must be lived deliberately.

Blogger Azimus June 16, 2015 12:31 PM  

VD:
expect instant victory in a war without end.


I gave a message about this in our church's open meeting a few months ago: the Christian's fight is a siege, a battle of endurance. Too many want the fight to wrap up neatly into a 90 minute matinee, a pitched battle. I gave this message to my sister and brother in law who were going out to be missionaries in Africa. It wasn't the Communists who came up with the idea of the Long March, afterall...

Anonymous Andrew Spooner Jr. June 16, 2015 12:42 PM  

Roosh is simply growing up. It had to happen eventually. At least he's smart enough to recognize it happening and start asking questions. You can't rely on instinct forever.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 16, 2015 12:47 PM  

Nullification. Convincing enough state legislatures to make it happen will be a long, hard slog, but will be worth it.

Anonymous fluffer June 16, 2015 12:48 PM  

does Roosh know more than the Pope?

www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/15/popes-encyclical-links-global-warming-to-human-activity

Anonymous Nemo Maximus June 16, 2015 12:49 PM  

It took the early Christians three hundred years of faithful good works, adopting the exposed children, and preaching the gospel in the face of unmentionable abuse and torture before Rome fell to them. Long march indeed.

They also used rather different entryist tactics to gain access to the inner santums of Ceasar's palace. They were enslaved en masse, but due to their honestly and good stewardship were valued and given responsibilities that placed them in the halls of power, where eventually Constantine was converted (however imperfect he was).

Again, three centuries. Long march indeed.

While that behavior may fairly describe the aspirational attitudes of men like JCW, where do the ilk fit in all this? Consider the effect of the also-Christian barbarians who pressured the empire from the outside. (Recall that in the sack of Rome (410), the main Basilicas of Peter and Paul were nominated and respected as sanctuaries.) Perhaps the role of the Ilk, Dread Ilk and VFMs play more into the barbarian function.

Blogger Dexter June 16, 2015 12:49 PM  

This is my feeling when I discuss big issues with right-leaning but otherwise mainstream folks. They fall for the political rhetoric every time. They really do believe all they need is five of "their" judges on SCOTUS and all will be well in the land.

They just want to go back to not paying attention to politics.

Because they think "civilization" is the normal, steady state of affairs, and if they just get the crazy people out of the wheelhouse, the ship will sail along just fine.

Blogger Beefy Levinson June 16, 2015 12:51 PM  

Thank you for the link Vox.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2015 12:54 PM  

People fool themselves in thinking that this is some sort of war, with a destination of victory or defeat.

It's a pageant, a parade, and each of us is both participant & spectator. It was running before we got here and it will continue aftet we're gone.

I just work to live my life honorably.

Blogger Jeff Y June 16, 2015 12:58 PM  

I'm an Orthodox Christian, so I'm more inclined to the Desert Fathers and cenobitic monasticism. Still, the revived interest in monasticism in the Western Church gladdens my heart.

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 12:59 PM  

The Benedict Option is the brainchild of Rod Dreher:

Benedict Option
A medieval model inspires Christian communities today.


Posts in category “Benedict Option”

Posts tagged “Benedict Option”

Anonymous MGTOW June 16, 2015 1:02 PM  

How many men do we know who constantly read articles on sites like Return of Kings but never actually do anything with what they’ve learned? How many of our brothers spend their free time drinking to excess, eating Doritos, playing video games, and generally wasting their lives away?

STOP TELLING US TO MAN UP AND MARRY THOSE SLUTS!!!

Anonymous Earl June 16, 2015 1:06 PM  

A few weeks ago Roosh put out a call to hire a committed weekly theology writer on RoK.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 16, 2015 1:16 PM  

The idea behind monastic life is it is easier to live a disciplined life when we have friends who share the same goals and avoid those who do not.

And here I thought monasteries were just a place to put weirdos who weren't going to reproduce anyway, where they could at least do something productive and respectable, or at least uplifting. Ya know, people like me.

This is why I really hate universities- they replaced monasteries, turned education into a status game, and kicked the monks out onto the streets.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 16, 2015 1:16 PM  

Apparently I touched someone's nerve.



Well, I do like seeing things like this from Vox, sometimes Vox sounds less like "the line must be drawn here" and more like "enjoy the decline".

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 16, 2015 1:19 PM  

STOP TELLING US TO MAN UP AND MARRY THOSE SLUTS!!!

Go read something else then.

A few weeks ago Roosh put out a call to hire a committed weekly theology writer on RoK.

JCW has a huge back catalog. I figure the sorts of people who suddenly want religious structure will enjoy the RCC take on things.

Blogger ray June 16, 2015 1:21 PM  

Don't need Roosh and Rossy. Got the Bible.

When the wisdoms of the Roosh and Rossy cults exceed that of the Bible, then I'll start getting interested in the pontifications and strategies and advice of the Game Gurus. Until then, bleh.

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 1:27 PM  

Don't need Roosh and Rossy. Got the Bible.

When the wisdoms of the Roosh and Rossy cults exceed that of the Bible, then I'll start getting interested in the pontifications and strategies and advice of the Game Gurus. Until then, bleh.


GBFM?

Anonymous BGS June 16, 2015 1:30 PM  

A few weeks ago Roosh put out a call to hire a committed weekly theology writer on RoK.

He is going to write about how to pick up nuns.

They just want to go back to not paying attention to politics.

Its almost as if the natural state of man is to be lazy cowards.

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 1:35 PM  

Its almost as if the natural state of man is to be lazy cowards.

No, it's that most of the folks on the right are busy with jobs and families and community obligations. There's a finite amount of time and energy. They'd rather spend it coaching Little League than protesting.

Anonymous Porky June 16, 2015 1:40 PM  

Is Bang Subiaco about to be published?

Blogger Jourdan June 16, 2015 1:42 PM  

Josh, that's a dodge: there is more to the choice than between coaching Little League versus protesting.

The Internet has been both a blessing and curse. A blessing, in that men of the right know they are not alone.

A curse, in that the vast majority think that posting and encouragement are action. They aren't.

I used to run a fairly popular political website back around 2004-05. I had hundreds of regular commentators. When I tried to get people to meet up in real life, to begin organizing as a political community in real life, nothing. Not one agreed to even meet for a pint and talk.

Blogger Owen June 16, 2015 1:45 PM  

Its almost as if the natural state of man is to be lazy cowards.

Can't see that being the natural state, since we made it through the more brutish eons.

Blogger Danby June 16, 2015 1:47 PM  

STOP TELLING US TO MAN UP AND MARRY THOSE SLUTS!!!

As if that were the option you're facing.

Blogger Owen June 16, 2015 1:49 PM  

I'm pretty sure the MGTOW post was farce, guys.

Anonymous Mike M. (minion #315) June 16, 2015 1:51 PM  

"...too many conservatives are not only in love with the idea of noble defeat, but expect instant victory in a war without end."

Amen! I've seen this CONSTANTLY. Win one election, and All Our Problems Are Over. NO! This is one battle in a long war. More like keeping below-sea-level land in Holland dry...a matter of constant dike maintenance and pumping. Hard work, but it beats the alternative.

Anonymous Pax Romana June 16, 2015 1:52 PM  

"No, it's that most of the folks on the right are busy with jobs and families and community obligations."

Possibly, however when you're single, the obstacle becomes less about time and more about caring about the future when you have little-to-no stake in it. It's not an insurmountable obstacle, of course, merely something to consider.

Blogger Danby June 16, 2015 1:59 PM  

...a matter of constant dike maintenance and pumping. Hard work, but it beats the alternative.

i'll pass, thanks.

BTW, you misspelled a word there.


@ Owen,
I know that, but it was too good a dig to pass up.

Blogger Jeff Y June 16, 2015 2:02 PM  

Neo Maximus wrote, "It took the early Christians three hundred years of faithful good works, adopting the exposed children, and preaching the gospel in the face of unmentionable abuse and torture before Rome fell to them...Perhaps the role of the Ilk, Dread Ilk and VFMs play more into the barbarian function."

On the first part, yes. On the second, I don't think so. It is as it was.

Like the early Christians, we must build alternative institutions that contain and protect traditional culture. We must accept that we will have to double pay. We will be taxed to pay for the progressive technocratic institutions, and we must pay for our own. But build those alternative institutions we must.

On another point (not made by Neo), indolence isn't something new. Perhaps adopting passive methods of participation is one way forward. Crowdfunding our alternative institutions, for example. This allows people to passively support the cause by giving resources to those who will work.

I don't know if that's the answer but it's an answer, FWIW.

Anonymous Beau June 16, 2015 2:12 PM  

Our heavenly Father,

Thank you for the beginnings of awakening, the stirring of souls, the girding on of our gear, counting the cost, and determination to fight despair, deception, and hubris. This is our hour, and I thank you for it in Jesus' name. Amen.

Blogger Corvinus June 16, 2015 2:25 PM  

@fluffer
The putative Pope has proven himself to be a heretic, and by divine law, a heretic cannot actually be the Pope.

And on top of being a heretic, he's a flaming SJW.

Anonymous AlteredFate June 16, 2015 2:47 PM  

Speaking of altering idle lives, what ever happened with Vox's experiment with life coaching? I don't recall ever hearing about it after that single post.

Anonymous Cheech And Chong Found God June 16, 2015 3:04 PM  

“It looks as if Roosh is indeed serious about exploring spirituality and eucivicis”

The only thing Roosh is serious about is his image, not pursuing the love of Christ.


“Roosh is simply growing up. It had to happen eventually.”

Has he publicly renounced his lifestyle? Has he begun to shutter his website? Has he had a conversion experience? Otherwise, he’s still an overgrown child.


“And on top of being a heretic, he's a flaming SJW.”

Offering your support to Roosh and Roissy, known champions of perversion, only jeopardizes your soul, Corvinus.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2015 3:13 PM  

There are two ways to "fight" the battle:
1. Organized activity meant to change others' minds, i.e., politics
2. Improve yourself, live righteously, tend your own garden, and let the chips fall where they may.

#1 is a fool's errand, akin to enlisting in Lucifer's legions in order to battle Satan.

Anonymous AlteredFate June 16, 2015 3:17 PM  

Cheech & Chong Found God is the worst kind of troll. Utterly useless except that we can point and laugh, knowing a hypocrite and buzzkill when we see one.

Blogger Doom June 16, 2015 3:18 PM  

I'm split. Health is an issue, but it's more than that.

You can work like a pilgrim, morning to night, secular or religious. You can push at every opportunity. You can become desiccated in a set rhythm, and simply stop being as an individual that way. It is safer, easier to stay on the straight and narrow. But much as I found when I first seriously came to faith, being a servant of God's will is not the same as become a child of God. You can be a servant, to God's will, a form of exact living as described. I just haven't found that to be what God is asking. I sense that He wants me to be lively, alive, and... hmm... curious. He knows I will make mistakes, and that some structure is good. But... balance. He has my sins covered. If I live as I believe He wishes it, through study and prayer, it will be by changing, doing, not doing, and conscientiously, not forced. He doesn't want people who slavishly abide laws, but children who attempt to live right, mistakes and all.

I literally can't live a scheduled life. But further, I would not live a scheduled life. I do believe monks are... special. Truly. But not all can be special in that way. Less some of my sort, and further some of my health. I do what I can, the best I can, when I can. I don't even worry about the rest. Even so, I still sometimes call exhaustion laziness, but get over it when I realize my body is done. Then leave it to rest. Picking up where and when I can. Some just aren't based on that kind of structure. Nor can I even fight every good fight. Less so men who work and are of my nature.

As for wanting the war to be quick and solid? If, as I suspect, Tor does nothing and McMillan follows suit? I have already stopped buying Tor books. Which is a pain, there are at least a dozen books I had been planning on buying from them, with leads into potentially more, as well as hard or soft covers for some of the e-books I already have so as to have hard copies. I can't force them to change, and there isn't much else to do. That war, pretty much, is done. Shots fired, line drawn, ways parted. That's just how I fight, too. You need an army, and a survival need, to really fight any other kind of protracted war. I don't go to movies, I don't buy magazines or news, I don't watch television, I even avoid manufacturers from Colorado, Cali, and NY. The only thing left, in many cases, is a shooting war. And I don't see the need. They will have to spill the first blood for that.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2015 3:20 PM  

To me, Roosh's emphasis on 1+1=2 (casual sex) simply means he's swallowed the False Narrative of our Age hook, line and sinker. "Game?" Talk about folly....(unless his entire program is a phenomenally intricate Black Knight approach.)

Those who eschew what Nature (God, whatever) offers us (full partnership sexual reproduction and a social system that nurtures it) simply choose to travel Life's Path in the rockiest, pothole-strewn lane. I'm still trying to figure out why this False Narrative of loneliness and sadness is sold so diligently these days.

It makes me think that most people actively reject happiness, even when it is offered.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 16, 2015 3:29 PM  

"A curse, in that the vast majority think that posting and encouragement are action. They aren't."

Yea, all this inaction has inspired me to shoot more, play more music, support my local parish better, and generally spend less time staring at glowing pixels.....oh, and to consume more whiskey and cigars...totally worthless.....

Anonymous Luke June 16, 2015 3:56 PM  

22. BGS June 16, 2015 1:30 PM

"A few weeks ago Roosh put out a call to hire a committed weekly theology writer on RoK."

"He is going to write about how to pick up nuns."

Given that the average age of nuns in the U.S. is probably the other side of 60, why would anyone bother?

Blogger Owen June 16, 2015 4:00 PM  

Luke,
They're the last American virgins, man!





Ok. Now I feel gross. That was the line, apparently.

Anonymous A Visitor June 16, 2015 4:43 PM  

Good post.

"Amen! I've seen this CONSTANTLY. Win one election, and All Our Problems Are Over. NO! This is one battle in a long war. More like keeping below-sea-level land in Holland dry...a matter of constant dike maintenance and pumping. Hard work, but it beats the alternative."

It is easy to get discouraged about the current state of affairs, no doubt. Who knows if the next election will help to start to turn the tide or not? If it doesn't and we continue in a downward spiral, then double down on your faith.

I reminded of how I came back to the Church and I was on a retreat in Spain in 2008. One day the priest told us, "Remember, our homeland is not here (pointed towards the ground) but there (pointing towards Heaven)."

"Possibly, however when you're single, the obstacle becomes less about time and more about caring about the future when you have little-to-no stake in it. It's not an insurmountable obstacle, of course, merely something to consider."

As I'm currently single and with few obligations beyond myself, it is difficult to care about the future. I do care though. Being so selfish at to only care for yourself is not something to aspire to nor is it a way to live a life.

"The putative Pope has proven himself to be a heretic, and by divine law, a heretic cannot actually be the Pope."

Here is a good read on the difference between material and formal heresy.

Here is a worthwhile article on whether a Pope can be a heretic.

Blogger Corvinus June 16, 2015 4:59 PM  

Here is a good read on the difference between material and formal heresy.

Here is a worthwhile article on whether a Pope can be a heretic.

A Visitor, I've heard that spin before.

I'll see your spin, and raise you this.

Blogger Jourdan June 16, 2015 5:05 PM  

Roissy does more in a week for the Restoration than most putative conservatives do in lifetimes.

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 5:14 PM  

Roissy does more in a week for the Restoration than most putative conservatives do in lifetimes.

Seriously?

Blogger Jourdan June 16, 2015 5:27 PM  

Seriously. He is the best writer in favor of a grand restoration around and he speaks to many who are not politically-minded. This seems obvious to me as a long time reader of his.

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 5:45 PM  

Seriously. He is the best writer in favor of a grand restoration around and he speaks to many who are not politically-minded. This seems obvious to me as a long time reader of his.

The closest he's ever come to a "grand restoration" is his occupy wall street political platform he blogged about maybe a month ago. I would hesitate to describe his vision as coherent.

Blogger Jourdan June 16, 2015 5:48 PM  

Well, either one of us is reading a different guy or one of us can't read very well, and it's me. You win.

Speaking of restoration, any news on the fight today? Any response from Tor or Macmillan? Any word on Gallo's position?

Anonymous Earl June 16, 2015 7:59 PM  

Roissy evangelizes in the way Francis Schaeffer does, except without the Gospel. Schaefer would crush you under the weight of your own nihilism merely by drawing it out, working toward its conclusions, demonstrating the relativist/'snihilist's inability to follow it due to its nightmarish consequences and the person's undeniable humanity. He admitted that in two cases people may have killed themselves after talking to him but before accepting the Gospel. Many came to Christ under Schaefer's tutelage.

Roissy delivers the nihilist evangelion without the 4 Gospels to follow. It is true that the only good a nihilist can do is to kill himself. Jesus would agree, and ask that you be born again in the Spirit.

Anonymous BGS June 16, 2015 8:20 PM  

...a matter of constant dike maintenance If you think dikes are high maintenance you should stay away from the pretty boys.

Anonymous RS June 16, 2015 9:50 PM  

Benedict was one man with no responsibilities. Taking your ball and going home is not an option for the religious right in America, the subset of folks actively trying to be fruitful and multiply and raise Godly families. How many posters here can forge an independent living? How many lurkers like me could do that? So, so very few.

The American Christian community does not need to run. The American Christian community is not a group of budding ascetics, and even out of the most holy American Christian men only very few could cast aside their true nature and successfully follow Benedict's example.

We are the Sons of Liberty, rebellion is our heritage, and freedom - freedom from authoritarians, hedonists, SJWs, communists and every flavor of discivic serpents - freedom is our birthright. To hell with running. Stay put, gear up, make friends, and be ready to strike back when the serpents over extend themselves.

Anonymous RS June 16, 2015 9:53 PM  

Also where the hell is Nate to tell everyone how dumb they are for even considering this? I'll put some words in his mouth - "you are not Benedict and this is just some pie in the sky version of MGTOW for Christian dummies. Going to drink bourbon now."

Blogger overcaffeinated June 16, 2015 10:35 PM  

fluffer & Corvinus,

I'd suggest you actually read the document for yourself, rather than relying on "usnews.com."

There is more to it than the liberal hack clickbait headline writers might be interested in.

I've seen those Novus Ordo Watch and Rorate Caeli type ultra-rad-trad more-Catholic-than-the-pope type sites. If you have a particular point on which you disagree with the pope, then argue that point. There is a name for general rebellion against the papacy: Protestantism. It has a history.

From what I have seen in the latest encyclical (of which a draft in Italian was leaked -- I have no Italian and I'd doubt usnews.com does either), the pope addresses a range of topics related to 'ecology,' broadly understood.

On the topic of "climate change," he appears to have taken certain scientists at their word that it is man-made. That may prove to have been ill-advised. The pope, however, has no authority, even within the Church, to adjudicate on scientific issues, any more than on who will win the World Series this year. (White Sox, obviously.)

Reducing the pope to a "SJW" simply because, according to an American news outlet, he appears to have endorsed a scientific position you disagree with, is irresponsible. Again, please actually take the time to read the documents you're referring to.

Anonymous Didas Kalos June 16, 2015 10:50 PM  

I agree with Beau.
"Our heavenly Father,

Thank you for the beginnings of awakening, the stirring of souls, the girding on of our gear, counting the cost, and determination to fight despair, deception, and hubris. This is our hour, and I thank you for it in Jesus' name. Amen."

Anonymous johnc June 16, 2015 10:56 PM  

@overcaffeinated

This pope is a complete trainwreck.

Anonymous taqiyyologist June 16, 2015 10:59 PM  

Sweden is the reductio ad absurdum for SJWs.

Sweden is what happens when SJWs take control of a nation.

What they are doing to industries, individually, are only microcosms.

http://www.returnofkings.com/65984/a-brief-introduction-to-the-country-formally-known-as-sweden

Blogger overcaffeinated June 16, 2015 11:01 PM  

On the topic of political engagement, the silver lining in the left-wing clouds is that they oppose nature, and they always take things too far. The West did not defeat the Soviet Union so much as it defended itself long enough that it crumbled under the weight of its own absurdity and enforcement mechanisms, with some pushing at opportune moments.

For every Stalin, there was a Solzhenitsyn and a Wojtyła. Neither were warlords who subjugated the Communists. They were practitioners of political jujutsu who studied silently in the shadows, wrote thoughtfully and honestly to those who would listen, and then waited for the opportune moment to deftly deflate the leftist balloon.

The left relies heavily on media hype and intrusive public school programs. It has few true believers, instead focusing on fear, intimidation, and brainwashing. We've seen the past week how the idea of "transrace" has stolen the thunder from the left's Jenner media blitz. That was fortuitous, but in the future God may rely on a more deliberate campaign to remind the common people of the true law.

Anonymous taqiyyologist June 16, 2015 11:04 PM  

And what I mean by industries is what they are doing to all of us, what their end-goal is.

I really wish Francis A. Schaeffer was still alive.

What he would have to say, I can only wonder.

Anonymous taqiyyologist June 16, 2015 11:07 PM  

Bruce Gender, Racial Dolezal.

What a world.

Blogger overcaffeinated June 16, 2015 11:07 PM  

@johnc, again, that's not a real argument. What in particular do you have an issue with?

Blogger Josh June 16, 2015 11:30 PM  

Benedict was one man with no responsibilities. Taking your ball and going home is not an option for the religious right in America, the subset of folks actively trying to be fruitful and multiply and raise Godly families. How many posters here can forge an independent living? How many lurkers like me could do that? So, so very few.

Read the Dreher links I posted. The Benedict Option isn't taking your ball and going home.

Blogger Corvinus June 17, 2015 12:05 AM  

@overcaffeinated

I've seen those Novus Ordo Watch and Rorate Caeli type ultra-rad-trad more-Catholic-than-the-pope type sites. If you have a particular point on which you disagree with the pope, then argue that point.

Novusordowatch has about 1,000 points on which they disagree with the "pope". I don't need to repeat it all. You can go there and read for yourself, since it's clear you haven't even begun to do so yet.

There is a name for general rebellion against the papacy: Protestantism. It has a history.

Actually, this isn't a rebellion against the papacy. It's a rebellion against a fake papacy, an antipapacy if you will. Let's get things straight here.

Blogger Jourdan June 17, 2015 12:21 AM  

@Corvinus - In that case, we're going to need us a new Pope!

There's a certain palace in Avignon that would do nicely, I think.

(In all seriousness, as someone who has lived and worked extensively in Latin America, I can say with 100% accuracy that Francis is simply a very Latin Latino, very common views, very common type, nothing exceptional about him in any way that I can tell. Everything he says could be said by any Latin American foreign minister or university president. Which is really just a nice way of saying he's full of shit, but at least he's authentic.)

Blogger Jourdan June 17, 2015 12:22 AM  

I'm all for the Benedict Option, as long as I don't get stuck in the same cloister with Dreher.

Blogger Beefy Levinson June 17, 2015 12:46 AM  

I'm all for the Benedict Option, as long as I don't get stuck in the same cloister with Dreher.

I laffed.

Blogger Jourdan June 17, 2015 2:01 AM  

The man is insufferable. Nice guy, and lately it appears as if he is beginning to suspect that perhaps it might be possible that there could be, at times, in a certain sense, people who hate him and wish him and his family ill and that perhaps he could be expected to take his own side in a fight.

Nice article, Levinson. Applying the rule to live one's life accordingly is a good idea. People need structure and this is one way to impose it. I think people feel very alone right now, and the Internet in a rather odd way is making it worse, not better.

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 17, 2015 4:27 AM  

I've seen those Novus Ordo Watch and Rorate Caeli type ultra-rad-trad more-Catholic-than-the-pope type sites. If you have a particular point on which you disagree with the pope, then argue that point. There is a name for general rebellion against the papacy: Protestantism. It has a history.

For shits and giggles, I looked up a priest who taught me in high school and who was known for saying Latin Masses. Natrually, he's a mere 'presbyter' and Not-Protestant-Enough for them.

This is the same guy who wouldn't give me Communion in my hands when I used to altar boy for him.

Anonymous hh June 17, 2015 6:40 AM  

"Actually, this isn't a rebellion against the papacy. It's a rebellion against a fake papacy, an antipapacy "

Heresy = Protestantism = Hersesy

You can't square this circle, no matter how many weird websites you are obsessed with.

Blogger Jeff Y June 17, 2015 8:42 AM  

Corvinus wrote, "There is a name for general rebellion against the papacy: Protestantism. It has a history."

There's a name for a general rebellion against the Church Councils and the apostolic ecclesiological traditions, it's called Roman Catholicism. Protestantism is merely the logical end-point of those theological errors.

Blogger Corvinus June 17, 2015 9:26 AM  

@Cuca Culpa
Snark doesn't cut it here. If he was ordained after 1968 in the mutilated new rite, he isn't even a priest.

@hh
And you apparently are a complete moron.

Vatican II taught heresy. What do you do if whoever's running the Vatican is into "heresy = Protestantism = heresy"?

@Jeff Y
Are you some sort of Eastern Orthodox? Okay, in that case, which of these religions has been the only one to not allow divorce and remarriage?

Anonymous FrankNorman June 17, 2015 10:10 AM  


@Jeff Y
Are you some sort of Eastern Orthodox? Okay, in that case, which of these religions has been the only one to not allow divorce and remarriage?


Which of all those old liturgical traditions hasn't been infiltrated by Leftists?

Blogger kurt9 June 17, 2015 11:22 AM  

A little recent history is in order. Remember those Gen-X slackers of the early 90's? When the economy got better, they morphed into the dot-com start-up people, investment bankers, or management consultants of the late 90's. Many of the current hot shots in Silicon Valley (Musk, Thiel, the Google guys, etc.) are all gen-Xer's. Take home lesson? American young people, particularly young men, work plenty hard when there is plenty of economic opportunity. When we have a zero-sum, non-growth oriented economy that seems to be favored by the liberal-left, becoming a slacker is a rational choice.

Incentives work.

Anonymous Cheech And Chong Found God June 17, 2015 1:05 PM  

“Nice article, Levinson. Applying the rule to live one's life accordingly is a good idea.”

For those men who claim to be religious while gaming women and remaining since without children, sure, it’s a well-written piece. For those Christian men who practice what we preach, the article is nothing more than drivel.

Speaking of heresy, Corvinus, every time you take the advice of Roissy, you embrace anti-Godly masculinity.

Blogger Corvinus June 17, 2015 2:47 PM  

Which of all those old liturgical traditions hasn't been infiltrated by Leftists?

@FrankNorman
At least for the Catholic rite, it's traceable to when Montini (the future Paul VI) got Annibale Bugnini, the inventer of the Protestantized "Mass" of Paul VI, to start messing with it in the 1950s, while he was acting as Pius XII's secretary of state. For that reason, Sedevacantists use the early-1950s rite.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 17, 2015 4:06 PM  

@RS:
"Taking your ball and going home is not an option for the religious right in America.....
The American Christian community does not need to run..... "

It is not running or going home. It is a strategic re-direction of energy and focus.

"Stay put, gear up, make friends, and be ready to strike back when the serpents over extend themselves..."

Hide in plain sight but don't talk about fight club.....

Anonymous patrick kelly June 17, 2015 4:08 PM  

@ Jeff Y.

Please stick around, I tire of being the lone representative of the EOC here.......it gets lonely...sniff......and the ilk are mean....wahh...wah.....

OpenID mattse001 June 17, 2015 4:15 PM  

The reason it's so important to be a happy conservative warrior is because war against the left is a lifestyle. It goes on for as long as you live, and never stops.

Blogger overcaffeinated June 17, 2015 10:34 PM  

Corvinus, I don't believe that even the SSPX would say that V2 contains, strictly speaking, heresy. It is often vague and open to misinterpretation, but not objectively heretical. I believe the pope emeritus's final statements before resigning about the "council of the fathers" vs. the "council of the media" are wisest. Note for example that V2 specifically requires that Latin be retained and that Gregorian chant and polyphony be given pride of place in the liturgy.

With our present papa, the spirit of filial piety (孝) would suggest remaining close at heart and keeping the man in our prayers, even though, or perhaps especially when, we believe he has been led astray.

Blogger Jeff Y June 17, 2015 11:16 PM  

FrankNorman, I'm Greek Orthodox not Eastern Orthodox.

Matthew 19:9: “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Like Christ, the Church practices an “economia" toward sinful persons.

Christ allowed an exception to the indissolubility of marriage, and so the Orthodox Church also is willing to allow an exception.

The purpose of marriage is to sanctify the betrothed. Therefore, marriage is a form of asceticism. It is appropriate for people who cannot accept monastic life or celibacy.

However, when a marriage begins to distance the betrothed from God rather than leading them toward union with God, the Church exercises compassion and prudence and economia with the aim of saving the souls of the betrothed.

This is fully within the bounds of Christ's teachings, the teachings of the Holy Fathers, and the pronouncements of the Church Councils.

Anonymous FrankNorman June 18, 2015 5:58 AM  

Jeff Y June 17, 2015 11:16 PM

FrankNorman, I'm Greek Orthodox not Eastern Orthodox.

Matthew 19:9: “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Like Christ, the Church practices an “economia" toward sinful persons.

Christ allowed an exception to the indissolubility of marriage, and so the Orthodox Church also is willing to allow an exception.

The purpose of marriage is to sanctify the betrothed. Therefore, marriage is a form of asceticism. It is appropriate for people who cannot accept monastic life or celibacy.

However, when a marriage begins to distance the betrothed from God rather than leading them toward union with God, the Church exercises compassion and prudence and economia with the aim of saving the souls of the betrothed.

This is fully within the bounds of Christ's teachings, the teachings of the Holy Fathers, and the pronouncements of the Church Councils.


That makes a lot of sense. Especially the part about the purpose of marriage.

So how does the RCC get off with "NO divorce, eeeevah!" when the Bible very plainly does allow it in certain circumstances?

Blogger Corvinus June 18, 2015 2:39 PM  

So how does the RCC get off with "NO divorce, eeeevah!" when the Bible very plainly does allow it in certain circumstances?

@FrankNorman
The Catholic Church allows separation, but even if the spouse was unfaithful, the jilted spouse cannot remarry.

Blogger Corvinus June 18, 2015 2:43 PM  

Corvinus, I don't believe that even the SSPX would say that V2 contains, strictly speaking, heresy. It is often vague and open to misinterpretation, but not objectively heretical.

That's exactly how it was heretical.

The heretics had to be sneaky, so they used ambiguous statements that could be interpreted as heretical or orthodox. Pius VI condemned such ambiguous statements for that very reason.

So here we have Vatican II doing and proclaiming things that were explicitly condemned by earlier Popes.

Furthermore, in practice, the post-V2 "Catholic Church" has been going along with the heretical interpretations, for example, with the "popes" stating that Jews still have a valid covenant with God, that Muslims gain "abundant spiritual fruit" from Ramadan, and so forth. The practitioners of both religions, being unbaptized, cannot gain grace at all.

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 25, 2015 8:07 PM  

Corvinus: late to see this, but I don't see the Lord as petty. Also, intent counts. Somehow I doubt that a guitar Mass[*] is worse than bbq goat for Baal or whatever.

The point abut sedevecantists is that thay are like birthers. The current one had the votes and no matter what rules lawyering some canon lawyer comes up with, they will move the goalposts.

This happens in real law too. The courts are less Perry Mason and more poker, but remember the house runs the game and interprets the rules.
[*] This is my shorthand for when Van Driessen types used to lead the music, like a folk Mass.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts