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Wednesday, June 17, 2015

Updates

Since many of you have been asking, no, no one has received any response from anyone at Tor Books or Macmillan. We know at least some of the emails have been read by the recipients. Be patient, we have to give Macmillan time to investigate the situation and discover for themselves just how dysfunctional and unprofessional their U.S. subsidiary is. Remember that Julie Crisp, Editorial Director of Tor UK, left the company "following a review of the company's science fiction and fantasy publishing" in May, and her public behavior was unobjectionable in comparison with that of Irene Gallo, Moshe Feder, and Patrick Nielsen Hayden. 

Also, Jagi has asked that when you send her your pictures of your Tor books, please tell her what state or country you are from. She's received them from 65 people to date.

And finally, TV invites those interested to a new Facebook group.
I would like to direct you and your commenters to a Facebook group I have started. There is a profound dearth of Facebook groups currently who support true open debate on the topic of "social justice" devoid of deletion happy moderators, and I intend to make this one the destination of choice among those who share the sentiments of the Ilk.

Labels:

72 Comments:

Blogger njartist June 17, 2015 7:47 AM  

I took up TV's Facebook offer: I'll see what it is about; but I am no longer going to join myself to people just spouting another form of ungodly idiocy.

Blogger Salt June 17, 2015 8:18 AM  

Membership is pending.

Blogger #0006 Hammer June 17, 2015 9:33 AM  

"We know at least some of the emails have been read by the recipients"
For the first time I received a read confirmation request (although automated) today.

Anonymous Jeff Wood June 17, 2015 9:34 AM  

Given that this is a sort of Praxis post, I have something of possible interest to other British readers (like our host I live in Italy so disqualify).

Someone - I don't have the reference - has started a movement to persuade the Right to join the Labour Party. It costs about three quid to join online, I am told. You then vote for Jeremy Corbyn in the current leadership contest.

The point is that Corbyn is the most insane Lefty, SJW candidate on the ballot, and if he gets the job, Labour are finished. Depends where the union bloc votes go of course, but perhaps worth a try.

I think the genius who thought this up must look in here.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 10:12 AM  

Speaking of deletion happy moderators, I have been banned from 770. Tsk. Double tsk.

Actually, I'd become such a magnet for attacks - to which attacks, it must be said, I responded with reasonable vigor - that Glyer was having to moderate all my posts and any posts aimed at me. Thus, at that point, he probably had no choice. However, the error I am not sure he understands is that a) it was his fault for letting attacks on me get out of hand in the first place, while b) he has just encouraged even more of a hive mind in his publication as well as attacks on anyone who is not an open SJW. IOW, he has encouraged bad behavior, not reduced it.

Anonymous Earl June 17, 2015 10:17 AM  

...freakin' Kratman. (smh)

Anonymous BGS June 17, 2015 10:36 AM  

What is to stop facebook itself from deleting it? You tube has banned police departments that posted crime videos looking for tips because only posting black/brown crime is racist.

Blogger Jourdan June 17, 2015 10:57 AM  

@Jeff Wood - An excellent idea, though I wouldn't count out Corbyn entirely, especially as your demographics get worse; you're likely to see what many on the continent have seen in a white-socialist/Islamist alliance.

But, perhaps Corbyn is as unelectable as you say. I'm old enough to remember poor old Foot as Labour leader, so admittedly my views of just how hopelessly out-of-touch left-wing Labour can get is highly colored.

@BGS -

I know that your views regarding our african brothers are rather more common in the gay community than admitted in public. One of the things I've noted upon my return to Washington DC is the very successful re-taking of the Capitol Hill neighborhood by whites, and I hear that it was gay men who provided the "shock troops" in re-taking the neighborhood.

I'd be very interested to hear your views on this aspect of gay urban life in America and what the real sentiment among gays are with regard to our african countrymen.

Blogger rcocean June 17, 2015 11:02 AM  

Tom - sorry to hear it. I'll go back to not reading 770. Its too hard trying to find an interesting diamond under all the SJW Bullshit.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 11:03 AM  

As far as keeping up property goes, Jourdan, gays seem to be male-squared. I know of two mixed neighborhoods in Boston, for example, that one would expect to be or have become hell holes which are not, as near as I can tell _precisely_ because gays moved into a number of the houses and insisted of keeping their property immaculately. The example seems to go a long way with others - white and black - who might either have given up on their property or never even tried to keep it up.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 11:05 AM  

There is a lot of SJW bullshit there, yes. I am more than ever convinced that the SJW is a skunk, in the sense that S/H/It sprays stupidity as a skunk sprays it's stink, which is to say as a defensive measure.

Blogger Alexander June 17, 2015 11:21 AM  

An interesting SJW flashback in the publishing world for me today.

All talk of shitty books took me back to a time when I was a boy, reading a book that to this day I recall being the worst I ever read. I cannot actually remember a single character, quote, or scene... just brutal, brutal agony of trying to read Secret of the Andes

Fucking terrible.

So today I look it up on the wikipedia to try and see if I can't get some inkling of what bloody happened in the book out of the repressed memories in my skull... and instead, found this.

Fuckin' A. SJW bullshit, circa 1953.

From wikipedia:
E. B. White's Charlotte's Web was a runner-up for the Newbery Medal the year Secret of the Andes won the award.[1] According to a 2008 article by children's literature expert Anita Silvey in the School Library Journal, one member of the Newbery committee stated that she voted for Secret of the Andes rather than Charlotte's Web "because she hadn't seen any good books about South America."

Bonus points if you notice the alpha-game nugget.

Anonymous Andrew Spooner Jr. June 17, 2015 11:47 AM  

My thanks to Vox for giving the group a mention. We just gained 37 members in about 2 hours. My plan is to keep moderation to an absolute minimum unless something that threatens the existence of the group comes up (porn, doxxing, threats etc.)

Anonymous Viidad June 17, 2015 11:58 AM  

@Kratman

770 was too small to hold your level of awesome. Screw 'em.

Anonymous fish June 17, 2015 12:18 PM  

4. Jeff Wood June 17, 2015 9:34 AM

He sounds like a real peach! Sacrifice your children to "the struggle". The UK deserves a guy like Jeremy Corbin!

From the Daily Mail:

Labour leadership hopeful Jeremy Corbyn is so left wing that he divorced his wife when she refused to send their son to a failing comprehensive (school)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3127962/Labour-leadership-hopeful-Jeremy-Corbyn-left-wing-divorced-wife-refused-send-son-failing-comprehensive.html#ixzz3dKw990W9

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 17, 2015 12:28 PM  

Unexpected side effect of Searching my collection of TOR books. I found my 1970s reprint of Isaac Asimov's Lucky Starr adventures. The cover art for that release was utterly awesome.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 12:41 PM  

I don't know that I am happy about it.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 12:42 PM  

In thinking about it, I should have stressed that those immaculately kept houses were owned by male _couples_. Might that make a difference, at least in reducing the depth of the condom layer?

Blogger Daniel June 17, 2015 12:46 PM  

IOW, he has encouraged bad behavior, not reduced it.

Several months before the Hugo swamping of File 770, I mentioned that poor Mike was going to be on the SJW barbie at some point, precisely because he tried to be so even-handed, even though he sided somewhat with the SJW concerns, and had some himself.

SJWs view their allies as a disposable buffer, and certainly the fence sitters, while normals view the fence sitters as an obstacle one must shoot through at times.

Lesson: don't be a fence sitter. "Objectivity" is just another word for "1st casualty."

If I had to guess, Mike's going to play along with the SJWs as long as they let him, but as soon as they decide that his attack on Scalzi's award pimping from several years ago, or that his tolerance and "glorification" of Rabid Puppies was too much, they'll fry him, and those who might have been moved to defend him will have long since moved away from file 770.

Right now, it is merely a mine for SJW idiocy. I don't think that was Mike's intention.

Blogger Giraffe June 17, 2015 1:18 PM  

Big Gay Steve is the queen of TMI.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 1:39 PM  

Big Gay Steve, you're getting out of line with your anecdotes. Both in number and in the graphicness.

Settle down and show some self-discipline.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 17, 2015 1:42 PM  

graphicness
indeed, gay paraphernalia or something would have sufficed. The ilk already have good imaginations. ;)

Blogger Migly June 17, 2015 2:30 PM  

Daniel: I'm pretty sure my intentions are practically invisible under the circumstances. If people are willing to participate I want to host a broad spectrum of debate about science fiction, and at the moment, the Hugo Awards. People need to represent their own views -- it's not as if I can create a vacuum in the conversation that only conservatives can fill. Mainly I am trying to limit the abuse, namecalling and insults based on sexual innuendo.

There needs to be a critical mass of four or five more conservative fans to become active at the same time in order to give each other conversational elbow room. I can't argue that's an ideal use of anybody's time unless it seems so to them, I'm just saying it's hard for one person who becomes the focus of debate not to feel piled on and exhausted.

Blogger VD June 17, 2015 2:55 PM  


There needs to be a critical mass of four or five more conservative fans to become active at the same time in order to give each other conversational elbow room. I can't argue that's an ideal use of anybody's time unless it seems so to them, I'm just saying it's hard for one person who becomes the focus of debate not to feel piled on and exhausted.


The bigger problem there, in my opinion, is that the SJW commenters there are so reliably stupid and dishonest that they constantly repeat and repeat and repeat the same falsehoods without any of them bothering to verify the truth of them. As I have stated, they always lie. Correct them with the facts, and they will turn around and tell the exact same lie they did before.

Just to give one obvious example, look at how they keep babbling on and on about how none of the Puppy supporters say anything about why we love various books. Now, first of all, we're not stupid. We know that if we do, they will promptly produce some reason for why our reasons are invalid, wrong, racist, sexist, and homophobic. We KNOW what SJWs do and we know there is no point in engaging with them.

But second, I spent TWO HOURS discussing just that sort of thing with Phil Sandifer. One of them even chortled about how awesome the post-interview session was. And then they promptly kept complaining that no Puppy had ever talked about why they liked any of the nominated works.

There is no point in trying to communicate with people who try to reason by emotion. As Aristotle, who they repeatedly malign without understanding in the slightest, pointed out in his RHETORIC, there is no amount of information capable of changing their minds.

Anonymous Alexander June 17, 2015 3:25 PM  

To add on to VD's statement. Last year we had all the SJWs going on about how nobody could say what they liked about A Throne of Bones or any of the short stories set in that universe.

Never mind of course that we have done so among ourselves, or even that nobody is required to give anybody else a bloody book report - a number of us, in good faith, went to the blogs that were 'just asking' to see what those who liked it saw in it... and were promptly banned, disemvoweled, deleted, called racist, etc. etc.

So no, this year haven't bothered. It's not an enjoyable group to have a discussion with, not is it apparently possible. And given that it's a bad faith invitation anyway, with the unwritten understanding that trufan works are brilliant without saying, whereas puppy works are... well, I'm afraid we'll need you to make your case.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 3:29 PM  

Sarah Hoyt is pissed at Glyer:


Which is why I’m furious. Because truth matters and because Mike Glyer Fifty Hugos  intentionally lies and rapes it to make his followers blind and to make them follow him and do what he wants.

...

It is the fact that the prize is so small that makes the lies and manipulations more heinous. If they lie like this in small things that bring them no monetary reward, what do you think they’re doing to the truth in things that matter?


Turns out she doesn't like being lied about and called a homophobe (HOYT?! AYFKM?!) by someone too cowardly to link her. Who could've seen that one coming?

Anonymous Boogeyman #0240 June 17, 2015 3:38 PM  

You reason with people. You ignore termites. It's the exterminator's job to talk to them.

Blogger Corvinus June 17, 2015 3:56 PM  

As I have stated, they always lie. Correct them with the facts, and they will turn around and tell the exact same lie they did before.

@VD
Yes. I remember that video of Gavin McInnes when he blew up at the SJW Mary Anne Franks and called her a "f*cking idiot" because she did that very thing, and of course the SJWs tried to make hay out of it.

Blogger Migly June 17, 2015 4:10 PM  

ticticboom: I know it's fun to play "Let's you and her fight" but count me out. Here is the response I made to her post --

You have been reading these roundups for weeks and cannot have failed to understand the title is a trope, not a comment on the nature of the writers quoted in it. Do you know who the first writer quoted in the “Hydrophobia that falls on you from nowhere” was? David Gerrold. Therefore, how can your interpretation possibly even make sense?

On the other hand, if it would make you happy to have me quote an “I am not a homophobe” paragraph in the roundup, that suits me fine because I never had an agenda about that either way.

Blogger Migly June 17, 2015 4:12 PM  

Vox Day: The bigger problem there, in my opinion, is that the SJW commenters there are so reliably stupid and dishonest that they constantly repeat and repeat and repeat the same falsehoods without any of them bothering to verify the truth of them. As I have stated, they always lie. Correct them with the facts, and they will turn around and tell the exact same lie they did before.

So you're trying to talk people out of representing their views at File 770?

Blogger Alexander June 17, 2015 4:27 PM  

I'd say he's pointing out the "Danger: Landmines!" sign that the SJWs turned over as they waved at us to join the discussion.

Blogger VD June 17, 2015 4:31 PM  

So you're trying to talk people out of representing their views at File 770?

Not at all. If anyone wishes to do so, they are certainly welcome to try it. I'm just explaining why I no longer bother. I like what you're doing with your roundups, but a portion of your commenters are simply too shamelessly dishonest for me to bother with them. You know that I gave it a shot.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 4:54 PM  

@Migly:

When they inevitably turn on you and you get the cisgendered heteronormatve white Christian male (it won't matter if you're transitioning, shacked up with Big Gay Steve, and a Jewish Ugandan), I'm gonna laugh long and hard. But not as much as when it happens to Scalzi or PNH.

Hope the pile of rocketships gives you some consolation. Personally, I don't think I've kept any trophy. Takes up space that can be used by something valuable. My boss got pissed when I just shrugged and put the 15 year anniversary cheap plastic plaque on the conference room table, left it there, and walked away without saying anything.

Now, a bottle of Jameson, that I would've appreciated.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 4:59 PM  

So you're trying to talk people out of representing their views at File 770?

Gamma tell.

Blogger Migly June 17, 2015 5:13 PM  

automatthew: Don't be a lameass conflict avoider, spit it out man.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 5:19 PM  

Migly,

My impression of you is overall a good one. My comment about the "Gamma tell" was primarily meant as a callback to a trope Vox has detected and identified. As such, it was an aside to the audience.

A less gnomic utterance might have been, "That resembles the kind of subtle straw man that Vox has previously identified as the Gamma Tell, e.g. "So what you're saying is..."

This is a high-context forum. Telegraphing my intent is not the same as avoiding conflict.

Blogger Migly June 17, 2015 5:32 PM  

automatthew: There are people active here who sometimes comment on File 770, and while we know that nobody is ever persuaded in an internet argument, if Vox said don't bother, that would make it even harder to keep the place from being an echo chamber.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 5:46 PM  

Migly: thanks.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 5:51 PM  

@Migly:

Can you at least admit that it is not unusual for someone looking at what you post on File 770, what kind of comments get someone banned compared to what is allowed to pass without notice, and come to the conclusion that you're a partisan of PNH, Scalzi, and GRRM?

That File 770 is, in fact, an echo chamber, and any opposing voice will be shouted down and banned?

I will, however, give you credit for not following the Toad of Tor's example of disemvoweling. The sheer disdain that shows for the written word is... unbecoming in someone supposedly making a career in literature.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 17, 2015 5:58 PM  

"Yes. I remember that video of Gavin McInnes "

That was awesome,.."the only thing people need to be scared of is people like Gavin..." BWAHAHAHAHAH !!
priceless....yes, they should be scared, very scared....

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 6:08 PM  

Why, oh, why, did they pass over Gavin for that schlub?

For lulz they could've made Tamara Holder a regular.

Blogger Daniel June 17, 2015 6:25 PM  

Mike Glyer should in no way be associated with the censoring screaming bantam meringue awardpimping disemvowelling lying jerkboots like Scalzi, George Rape Rape Martin, Uncle Charlie Stross, the Nielsen-Hayden damacy, Glenn "Dog Downer" Hauman, Puppeteer or others in the SMOFia. He is a historian of the genre and of exclusive Fandom.

It is like being the unwitting honest accountant in a double books system. When things get bad, the honest one is just as disposable as the one keeping the fakes.

But that doesn't mean the honest books aren't accurate. I have consistently applauded his efforts despite the SJWS who have swamped the lifeboats there.

Blogger Daniel June 17, 2015 6:29 PM  

I independently stopped commenting there for the very fact that for every reasonable independent insight, there were 50 repeated and inaccurate lies. There are even entire phony topics ("slates") that are tossed up as noise whenever the math gets to hard for the 106 IQ club that is team SJW.

Blogger VD June 17, 2015 6:49 PM  

Can you at least admit that it is not unusual for someone looking at what you post on File 770, what kind of comments get someone banned compared to what is allowed to pass without notice, and come to the conclusion that you're a partisan of PNH, Scalzi, and GRRM?

That's not fair. Mike is no more responsible for his commenters than I am for mine. He's one of the few people on the Internet who moderates as lightly as I do, which is one reason why he gets so many comments. Mike is a SMOF, but not a CHORF, to use Brad's parlance.

That File 770 is, in fact, an echo chamber, and any opposing voice will be shouted down and banned?

As Mike has already pointed out, Blue SF is heavily outnumbered by the Pink SFFers there. We could certainly show up in force and drown them out, but what would be the point? Mike doesn't get involved in the shouting down and he isn't quick to ban people; he's never even moderated one of my comments there.

Blogger VD June 17, 2015 6:51 PM  

Anyhow, Mike, if you ever wish to interview me and permit your commenters to ask me any follow-up questions they wish, I am certainly amenable. Perhaps after the Awards are announced would be a good time for something like that.

And if they aren't interested in asking any questions and simply want to hurl insults, well, that will be informative too. I'm certainly not afraid to face them or directly address their questions.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 8:27 PM  

Alright, I stand corrected. At this point, I've lost the desire, if not ability, to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Then again, I've never been squeamish about collateral damage.

Plus, while you're well thought of here, when I hear 'typical Worldcon voter' I think of the creepy old uncle who goes on about the Summer of Love, and that no one lets be alone with any kids. If they'd shown a fraction of the outrage at MZB, Delaney, and Breen et al that they've thrown at Larry and Brad, never mind Vox, I might be less quick to judge.

Is that a cheap shot? Honestly, I don't care anymore.

Anonymous Field Commander zen0 June 17, 2015 8:38 PM  

21. automatthew June 17, 2015 1:39 PM

Big Gay Steve, you're getting out of line with your anecdotes. Both in number and in the graphicness.

Settle down and show some self-discipline.


automatthew, are you not getting a little overreaching here? I thought chastisement regarding thread comportment was the Malevolent One's prerogative.

Besides, any military strategist would probably be happy to get as much information as possible for recon purposes.

Shrinking from reality is counterproductive.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 8:59 PM  

@BGS:

Greenwich Village is a cesspit, but that's maily either gays living alone or communally. Not too many exclusive couples.

For anyone wondering, I'm not gay, but I've had the misfortune of making service calls there and Chinatown. There were times they opened the door and I turned around and walked away.

Blogger VD June 17, 2015 9:11 PM  

automatthew, are you not getting a little overreaching here? I thought chastisement regarding thread comportment was the Malevolent One's prerogative.

No.

Besides, any military strategist would probably be happy to get as much information as possible for recon purposes.

Gays may inordinately favor the enemy, but they are not intrinsically the enemy.

Anonymous zen0 June 17, 2015 9:17 PM  

No

Merde!
There goes my commission.
Oh well.

Yes Sir. Thank you for the clarification, Sir.

Blogger MendoScot June 17, 2015 10:01 PM  

Gays may inordinately favor the enemy, but they are not intrinsically the enemy.

Long before I started thinking about biological explanations, I categorized homosexuals as the walking wounded in the battle of the sexes.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 10:19 PM  

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a vile faceless moderator in possession of unannounced authority must be careful of his tone.

Blogger automatthew June 17, 2015 10:40 PM  

Long before I started thinking about biological explanations, I categorized homosexuals as the walking wounded in the battle of the sexes.

Other battles, too.

Anonymous BGS June 17, 2015 10:49 PM  

"automatthew, are you not getting a little overreaching here? I thought chastisement regarding thread comportment was the Malevolent One's prerogative.

I might be a bit jaded, but I certainly didn't want my car wash bucket used for that. I apologize if that example of gays breaking stereotypes bothered you. You might want to avoid the news next week due to NYC pride.

ticticboomhere were times they opened the door and I turned around and walked away.

Pretty much every gay pride festival will have things you couldn't bear to see. NYC pride is next week June22-28 so don't say you haven't been warned. Ask them if they know about HilLIARy taking $40million from nations that execute gays if you want to push their buttons.

Not too many exclusive couples. For the most part the only gays in exclusive relationships don't know what their boyfriend is up to or lack options such as their boyfriend dragged them away from the die verse city, or they both look like GRRM.

Anonymous zen0 the Chastised. June 17, 2015 11:03 PM  

@ BGS

I might be a bit jaded, but I certainly didn't want my car wash bucket used for that.

Ewww! That IS rude. You would think he could get his own bucket. One with a lid like kitchen compost buckets.

So much for decorum. I hope you got another one.

Anonymous ticticboom June 17, 2015 11:51 PM  

@BGS:

Eesh, being in the general vicinity of the Village Halloween Parade was bad enough. I've seen the overflow from the Pride Parade scattering out over Manhattan and that was more than enough to make me call it a night long before the sun went down.

I don't take girls into gay bars and sloppily make out just to annoy them. Shame they don't return the courtesy. I've heard it called, 'Squick the square.' If the intent is to turn people who were inclined to tolerate gays into people who would just shrug if the government started shoving them into cattle cars heading to the Mojave, they succeeded.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 12:33 AM  

:So you're trying to talk people out of representing their views at File 770?"

What would be the point, Mike, when you have a hive mind of ill-bred, ill-mannered, stupid and spoiled children dominating it? Including yourself, I count a maximum of four civilized and intelligent people there, at least one of whom, however, seems very innocent indeed.

Personally, I don't have any trouble with your effectively banning me. But you should have a problem with encouraging bad behavior.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 18, 2015 4:23 AM  

54. BGS J

"automatthew, are you not getting a little overreaching here? I thought chastisement regarding thread comportment was the Malevolent One's prerogative.

I might be a bit jaded, but I certainly didn't want my car wash bucket used for that. I apologize if that example of gays breaking stereotypes bothered you. You might want to avoid the news next week due to NYC pride.
-------------------

BGS, I'll complain as well. Please leave these kinds of grotesque, depraved, perverted graphic descriptions to the professionals, like John Scalzi, David Gerrold and GRRM. That's what they do for a living and you are are cutting in on their action. They're also much better at it than yourself, from what I understand.

But thank you for the eye openers on gay palimony and other things.

Blogger VD June 18, 2015 6:33 AM  

I apologize if that example of gays breaking stereotypes bothered you. You might want to avoid the news next week due to NYC pride.

You're missing the point, Steve. Monomanias are not permitted here. I no more want you babbling about the gay take on every single subject than I want Thordaddy babbling about the white supremacist take, or guy who said he was a fish talking about the evolutionary angle. It's tedious.

That little technique of linking your monomania tangentially to the topic at hand is transparently obvious to those of us who have seen different people doing the same thing for 12 years now. If the topic is something relevant, fine. If it's not, don't. So stop trying to tie everything to your favorite subject. It's very interesting to you, understandably, but it's not anywhere nearly that interesting to everyone else.

Blogger TrevorG June 18, 2015 8:45 AM  

As we are now calling for Irene Gallo's resignation after her public apology; I call on Castalia House to lead the way in this genre. I'm publicly calling for Castalia House to apologize for the libelous comments made by their Lead Editor, Vox Day, against African Americans.

He stated, "She is lying about the laws in Texas and Florida too. The laws are not there to let whites ” just shoot people like me, without consequence, as long as they feel threatened by my presence”, those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them."

Calling "people like her" i.e. African Americans, "half-savages" is insulting and racist. Since Vox Day is attempting to hold Tor to a higher code of civilized conduct, I call on Castalia House to hold their publishing company to the same high standards and force an apology from Vox as well as obtain his resignation. I do not believe that any publishing house where the Lead Editor engages in such obviously racist and inflammatory conduct could truly state that they are open to submissions from any prospective writers.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 8:50 AM  

I suppose that, beyond trying to score a rhetorical point, Trevor, you can see no differences in the two cases? If so, my condolences.

Blogger TrevorG June 18, 2015 8:52 AM  

It's called pointing out the absolute stupidity of what Vox and the Rapid Puppies are doing. There actually are differences, but they require some understanding of nuance; something in short supply in the Rapid Puppy field, sad to say.

Also, well done on not addressing the larger point, and trying to drag down the discourse, distract from the point. You are a loyal minion and I commend you. This is going to go nowhere, as the slavering hordes rush to defend their racist leader. I'll leave you to the circle jerk now.

Anonymous Alexander, #10 June 18, 2015 9:04 AM  

You're right, of course, he should have called her a proud full-savage, as she has clarified she prefers to be labeled.

Though I think perhaps you are the racist one. I would take 'people like her' to mean 'people who lie about the motivations of the rights enshrined in the Constitution for the purpose of removing freedoms from the citizenry', you take it to be 'African-Americans'. So sad. So racist.

Anonymous zen0 June 18, 2015 9:04 AM  

> I'll leave you to the circle jerk now.

Of course you will, having failed to make any case at all while chanting boilerplate SJW word fetishes, in hopes of changing reality.

Anonymous Castalia House June 18, 2015 9:55 AM  

Since Vox Day is attempting to hold Tor to a higher code of civilized conduct, I call on Castalia House to hold their publishing company to the same high standards and force an apology from Vox as well as obtain his resignation

No.

Anonymous ticticboom June 18, 2015 11:11 AM  

@TrevorG:

Vox didn't say all blacks were savages. He said people Jemisin, who fantasizes about stabbing white people for the unforgivable crime of belonging to a race she hates.

YOU'RE the one who assumes all blacks are violent thugs. There's no place in society for disgusting bigots like you. Go back to Stormfront, you filthy racist.

Blogger Danby June 18, 2015 11:44 AM  

Room-Temperature-IQ SJW Repeats Dishonest SJW Talking Point--Film a.. .y'know what fuck it. I was going to comment on how dishonest and really fucking boring the drive-by trolls are, But fuck it and fuck him.

We Don't Care. We're winning and it makes you mad Trevor, because you're a lying, losing weasel. We're winning and you're losing, and that's really what counts. Call me any name you like as you lose. Denounce my double standards to the skies (not to God, obviously) while you go down to defeat. I no longer care. Just shut up and die already.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 1:21 PM  

Try the obvious one, Trevor, you idiot. TOR existed when Gallo spewed her verbal diarrhea. Castalia did not exist when Vox said that Jemisin was a (half, wasn't it?) savage. Thus Castalia can NOT be responsible in the way that TOR can be responsible. And that's not even getting into the truths of the claims, that Jemisin appears to be a loon, that Wright is not a Nazi nor a neonazi, that Vox didn't insult Castalia's writers or customers and Gallo did.

I said "idiot," above, but you're really worse than that.

Blogger Migly June 18, 2015 3:45 PM  

Tom Kratman: "Personally, I don't have any trouble with your effectively banning me. But you should have a problem with encouraging bad behavior."

When I moderate comments on F770, I find myself having to reconcile two incompatible philosophies.

First, I was acculturated in fandom during a period where there was a lot of no-holds-barred verbal feuding. In the late Sixties/early Seventies fanzines like Science Fiction Review (a multiple Hugo winner) and its imitators published a bunch of exchanges between writers filled with colorful Freudian insults and innuendo. It's not my goal to host that, rather, I bring it up because that environment schooled people to be prepared to handle themselves verbally. And now when two people mutually decide take each other on in my comments section, my inclination is to let them express their unhappiness with each other.

Second, in the virtual community of my blog I am a host. I can't let people overindulge the first principle without driving off others who would add value to the discussion, and having to read a lot of toxic stuff myself.

There are blogs that enforce civility in a very intrusive way, and in the past couple of months I have encountered many of the challenges that led them to choose those policies. Right now I am still making up my mind about the balance, and learning how to set it.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 June 18, 2015 5:42 PM  

@Migly, the old-school style of sparring was limited to the speed of an APA-mailing. You had time to think up a clever comeback. And time to cool off. I still write for 'zines, though I don't do any APA-activity. I have yet to see anyone truly change their minds about core issues, though I have noticed the occasional concession, usually some decades after whatever it was blew up. The better crushers tend to get put on the mantle to show the new kids. And some were damn clever.

We've gone from talking about SF stories to living in one. I truly think social media has transformed the nature of people's interactions. That's part of what I like about the Rabid Puppy motto, "We don't care." I intend to do what I want on my time and my dime. Tom and Vox have way more energy than I do to engage in the comments at your site.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 8:59 PM  

Well, Mike, you traded me, who, frankly, is a lot brighter than your ruck and muck, unfailingly civil and polite to everyone who's civil and polite with me, who is in the business, and who, also frankly, can bring a lot more insight and wisdom than you will find most places, for a much larger number of ill-mannered, idiotic, spoiled brats. If numbers is your goal, you've made the right decision. If quality was your goal, banning CPaca right off would probably have been a better move.

It wasn't necessary to reconcile philosophies; it was only necessary to stop rudeness in the first place.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 9:33 PM  

(WRT Unfailingly polite, I consider it impolite to be openly, plainly, and egregiously careless, lazy, intellectually sloppy, and apparently stupid - see Trevor's attempt to score an idiotic rhetorical point, above - when a little thought would spare the rest of the us the pain of being SJW-skunk sprayed.)

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