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Wednesday, June 03, 2015

Depository confiscations coming

If you thought the bank bail-outs were bad, just wait until you see what the bail-ins are like:
The European Commission has ordered 11 EU countries to enact the Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive (BRRD) within two months or be hauled before the EU Court of Justice, according to a report from Reuters on Friday.

The news was not covered in other media despite the important risks and ramifications for depositors and savers throughout the EU and indeed internationally.

The article "EU regulators tell 11 countries to adopt bank bail-in rules" reported how 11 countries are under pressure from the EC and had yet “to fall in line”. The countries were Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Sweden, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, France and Italy.

France and Italy are two countries who are regarded as having particularly fragile banking systems.

The rules, known as the Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive (BRRD) ostensibly aim to shield taxpayers from the fall out of another banking crisis. Should such a crisis erupt governments will not be obliged to prop up the banks. At any rate most countries are far too deeply indebted to play such a role.

Instead, the burden is being placed on the creditors. As Reuters put it

    The rules seek to shield taxpayers from having to bail out troubled lenders, forcing creditors and shareholders to contribute to the rescue in a process known as "bail-in".

However, if recent events in Austria are anything to go by, creditors now also include depositors of banks. In April, Austria enacted legislation which removed government liability for all bank deposits.

Until then, the state would protect deposits of ordinary people and companies up to a value of €100,000. In its place a bank deposit insurance fund is being set up. This fund appears inadequate to protect savers’ deposits in the event of any kind of bank failure. We covered the story in more detail here.

Each country will enact its own version of the BRRD. How vulnerable savers are in specific countries is difficult to tell at this time. The drive towards a cashless economy which has accelerated in recent months makes deposit holders and savers ever more vulnerable.

This bail-in legislation which is being driven by the BIS through the Bank of England, ECB, Federal Reserve and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)  appears designed to protect banks by allowing them to confiscate deposits to prop them up rather than the noble stated objective - "to shield taxpayers".
This doesn't sound so bad... until you realize that another word for "bank creditor" is "depositor".  Remember, your bank deposits are legally loans made from you to the the bank. That's why they pay you interest, however little that might be.

So, when the bank needs money, instead of going to the taxpayers to get it, they can simply take it from their depositors. This explains why the war on cash is heating up; the banks want to make sure that you don't take your money out of the banking system in case they need it to pay their debts.

And don't think this is an EU-only thing. The only reason the USA isn't taking similar action is because the US banks already have a legal framework that permits it. See: MF Global.

Labels:

111 Comments:

Anonymous Giuseppe June 03, 2015 2:21 PM  

well, it's some 20 years late, and will probably be another 5-10 before it kicks in (or it may be tomorrow) but finally, what I saw back in 1993 is basically about to happen.
I did wonder how it could continue so long.
Mr. Ponzi was quite smart apparently. For a time anyway.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 03, 2015 2:27 PM  

It is the logical next step after "negative interest rates". Also it's probably not a coincidence that this is being proposed only after multiple rounds of bank mergers / buyouts. It's a lot easier to roll this out when a country has basically three banks.

Keynsian clowns will go along with this, because "what's the alternative?" Of course the alternative was way back in 1971 when Nixon found it impossible to continue a War on Poverty and a Land War In Asia. Another alternative was in 1987, when Greenspan papered over a stock market crash, or in 1996 when Greenspan papered over a potential recession, or even in 2008 when killing some banks would have saved all the others.

But, no. No, we must ride this sorry train all the way to the end of the line. I'm sure when banks and governments basically seize everything of value, and still can't deal with the ocean of debt, the Keynsian clowns will explain it all away, saying "Oh! We just didn't go far enough!".

Oh, and this definitely explains not just the war on cash, but the war on bitcoin and other alternatives. Every thing of value that can't be stolen by the government must be made stealable. Because It's Different, This Time.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 2:29 PM  

Bail-ins remain simply one among several ways to recognize the cupboard is bare.

They are banks marking-to-market for real.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 June 03, 2015 2:29 PM  

Got gold?

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 2:37 PM  

All roads lead to nominal wealth destruction.
High taxes reduce the value of what is taxed.
An ocean of bonds now in existence is poised for historic collapse.
Highly regarded stocks lose luster in obvious ways.
Leverage ratios decline from manic heights as the stuff they chased collapse in value.

Look at Japan, where politicians double down on policies collapsing their birth rate. A typical Japanese 9 year old can interpret the fate of his country in three or four generations.

What parallels will metastasize in the USA? Or is flooding 30,000,000 Meso-Americans into the USA just the mild, early indicator?

Blogger RobertT June 03, 2015 2:38 PM  

Are you aware of any banks that contractually skirt around this nonsense?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 2:39 PM  

I thought MF Global was just plain lawlessness. The depositors' funds, which were supposed to be segregated from the funds used by MF Global for investment, were appropriated for use by MF Global.

Jon Corzine should have gone to prison, but didn't because he belongs to the ruling class. Stealing money from the peasants is one of his perks.

Blogger JartStar June 03, 2015 2:41 PM  

If things get bad enough there's no safe place for your money, only places which you take fewer losses.

Unless you somehow managed to buy all of your precious metals without leaving an electronic trail they know who has them and how much if they need to, and no-knock raids can solve the "gold hording" problem. If you withdraw lots of cash you get reported, if you save your money banks might get it, if you invest your money the business might fail and you lose it all.

Anonymous Roundtine June 03, 2015 2:42 PM  

Best bet would be cash in the safe deposit box. When the bail in happens, the next day stand outside the bank and offer to buy people's newly received equity shares for hard cash.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 2:43 PM  

Not that Vox is wrong about deposits being loans to the bank. The whole reason FDIC exists and banks are supposed to be heavily regulated is that they can go broke and lose their depositors money.

Anyone that has any familiarity with history and economics should know that.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales June 03, 2015 2:45 PM  

"Jon Corzine should have gone to prison, but didn't because he belongs to the ruling class."

Never, EVER call these fucking chud monkeys 'the ruling class.' If you do, you might as well fucking bow-down to them and suck their cocks like a good little fucking serf.

Call them what they are: the political class.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 2:46 PM  

@JartStar

If things get bad enough the best place to have put your money may be into firearms, ammo, and whiskey.

OpenID genericviews June 03, 2015 2:47 PM  

But how can they take it from you a second time? The banks already have full possession of your cash when you deposit it. it they get into trouble, there is no THERE there to take again.

In effect, this is just an abreviated bankruptcy procedure where they wipe out their debts without going to court and they get to decide which creditors get the remaining bank assets instead of letting a judge decide.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 2:48 PM  

@Emmanuel Mateo-Morales

I see your point. How about "the oppressor class?"

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 2:52 PM  

got gold?

If the balance sheet wealth of dollar-holders collapses, large numbers of people are out of work and hoarding each nickel to cover food and heat, what might the price of gold do?

Your answer may vary from mine. I don't know, it depends on variables I can't predict, but it is far from certain that gold's price changes will differ from stocks or bonds while deflation rages.

We've seen unimaginable, unprecedented inflation in the form of a market that accepted a veritable ocean of IOU's in the form of bonds, now valued at the inverse of a near-zero percent yield. That's wealth inflation dwarfing John Law's Mississippi Scheme or the South Sea Bubble. Its inversion seems the most likely path ahead.

Blogger RobertT June 03, 2015 2:53 PM  

Or bitcoin. Hovering around $230. Although it's a little volatile, that makes more sense for me than gold. We really need an alternative currency. Bitcoin's a bank killer.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 2:55 PM  

"That's wealth inflation dwarfing John Law's Mississippi Scheme or the South Sea Bubble. Its inversion seems the most likely path ahead."

Someday someone will write another "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds." It will include chapters for the Satanic Daycare Moral Panic, Global Warming, and the modern bond market.

Anonymous Ras al Ghul June 03, 2015 2:56 PM  

Roundtine:

"Best bet would be cash in the safe deposit box. When the bail in happens, the next day stand outside the bank and offer to buy people's newly received equity shares for hard cash."

You're safe deposit box has the word "deposit" on it. It is an asset of the bank and there is case law out there where that can be used to pay off the possessor's debts as well.

If you are not in actual physical possession of something and capable of defending it, you do not own it.

Attempts at securing your wealth %100 are just as foolhardy as women trying to make the world 100% safe. It cannot be done.

I have to wonder though if this will encourage people to pay off debt faster, its the closest thing to not having your money taken.

Blogger YIH June 03, 2015 2:57 PM  

Roundtine:
Best bet would be cash in the safe deposit box.
Two problems; One, who has access to that ''safe'' deposit box? Two, what if that bank won't allow you to put ordinary cash in one?
Chase even goes as far as to prohibit the storage of cash in its safe deposit boxes . In a letter to its customers dated April 1, 2015 pertaining to its "Updated Safe Deposit Box Lease Agreement," one of the highlighted items reads: "You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."

Blogger Quadko June 03, 2015 3:10 PM  

2015 $100 bills are historic... it's printed in the 7th year of Obama's presidency, and you don't hate our black president, do you mr. racist swine banker?

Of course, I find all cach to have collectible value personally. Though my wife doesn't necessarily believe that. :)

Blogger Sam Hall June 03, 2015 3:15 PM  

Rundtine
Best bet would be cash in the safe deposit box.

Not any more

REPORT: JPMORGAN CHASE BANS STORAGE OF CASH IN ITS SAFETY DEPOSIT BOXES

Anonymous Roundtine June 03, 2015 3:20 PM  

The banks don't want people putting cash in the boxes because of the federal government, not because they don't want people storing cash. If there weren't federal laws that treated using cash as a crime, the banks would be happy for you to pay them to stack money in their vault, instead of having to pay you. It's not like they need it to run the banking system.

Anonymous malcolm June 03, 2015 3:38 PM  

Completely off topic, but The OC's essay from "James Bond in the 21st Century" is available for a short time on smartpopbooks.com:

http://www.smartpopbooks.com/james-bond-now-more-than-ever/

Anonymous Bz June 03, 2015 3:40 PM  

So this means the failing bank will chew up my deposit until it dies, whereafter I get deposit insurance ($0). It's furthermore not possible to get cash anymore. And given Cyprus, you probably can't transfer your funds to another bank either. The rational response is to get out of the banking system.

All in all, the consumer bank model would thus seem to be dead. There is little way to compensate your increased risk exposure by giving higher returns, for example. Indeed, that could trigger what you want to avoid. The failure of a big bank would thus wipe out enough voters, which means I would expect a great deal of social unrest. That's the one way to transfer risk back to those responsible. What a mess.

Blogger Salt June 03, 2015 3:43 PM  

Careful how you work your cash with the banks. You could run afoul of Structuring.

Anonymous Koppernicus June 03, 2015 3:43 PM  

Ha! I'm broke so their nefarious plans are foiled.

Anonymous Gecko June 03, 2015 3:46 PM  

Minor nitpick:

instead of going to the taxpayers

If there was any semblance of a balanced budget or any realistic expectation of paying off debt, then one could make a connection to taxpayers. The idea that taxpayers are on the hook for bailouts, or really any spending, is looking quite silly these days. As you've pointed out in the past, Vox, the "debt doesn't matter" crowd makes taxation basically irrelevant.

Blogger JartStar June 03, 2015 3:49 PM  

If the crash is big enough it's likely most of your financial assets will take big hits, it would be more prudent to concern yourself with: location (at least an hour from a major US city), 3-6 months food and living supplies, and making good community ties because you will have to depend upon your neighbors in TEOTWAWKI situation.

Even if there is no big crash doing the above will make for a better standard of living, and in the event of a disaster of some type (earthquake, flooding, hurricane, etc., ) you'll be better off.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 03, 2015 3:53 PM  

Of course, to fix this lingering problem, we'd have to start our own private currency. The problem is, it was done before and the Federal government jailed those responsible calling them "financial terrorists".

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 3:59 PM  

In 1933 FDR's admin seized the people's gold in preparation for a devaluation of the dollar in gold terms. This time it looks possible that banknotes will serve the same role and they'll ignore the metals.

The last thing the overlords want is for Joe Citizen to sidestep their deflationary catastrophe by simply sitting on banknotes. Of course, if the destruction of wealth is interpreted as a "shortage of money," eventually the political elite will try to reflate the economy with banknotes anyway, which in turn will probably go Full Zimbabwe.

Anonymous Trimegistus June 03, 2015 4:00 PM  

Buy land. They can't print more of it.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 4:05 PM  

the "debt doesn't matter" crowd makes taxation basically irrelevant.

That's topline, but life is lived in the world of real things. The FedGov can't redistribute that which does not exist. Production (and product) are all that matter, and the Debt-Doesn't-Matter crowd seems to love ignoring Say's Law. Redistribution, whether by tax (theft) or perpetual debt/monetization (fraud) always reduces the value of producers' wealth.

The production of real things has been undermined for a long, long time. While innovation has masked the damage, one has to wonder what is really left if Uncle Sam stopped being the dominant buyer across the American marketplace.

Blogger Valtandor Nought June 03, 2015 4:06 PM  

Yep. On the other hand, nothing stops them from "correcting" the register of title and then sending men to quash opposition. There's no such thing as truly safe property - though I guess repossession of land and physical items has to be much more blatant.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 4:06 PM  

Buy land. They can't print more of it.
But they can, in most places, tax it into worthlessness.

Blogger Kurt June 03, 2015 4:07 PM  

Gold will become the reserve world currency, replacing the dollar, and currencies will float against one another freely - at some point in the not too distant future when the IMF$ falls apart. It won't be necessary or reasonable to seize any gold from citizens. Get physical gold and store it somewhere safe that only you and close family know. Diversify your assets so you have cash and other options. I might even suggest (some) Euro cash.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 4:08 PM  

nothing stops them from "correcting" the register of title

Speaking of that, whatever happened to all the real estate whose title was clouded by MERS and the breaking the ownership of all those loans into MBS tranches? That was a Big Story in 2008-9, and seems to have gone down the Memory Hole big time.

Anonymous Steve Brown June 03, 2015 4:09 PM  

@Ron
MF Global proved there's no "insurance" or laws to protect any customers of financial institutions. Obama started this lawlessness when he took control of GM & Chrysler. Where were the judges?
You seem to be the sane voice here. What's your education/background? Thank you.

Blogger Salt June 03, 2015 4:11 PM  

Cash is not a problem. There's plenty floating about; not that the bank keeps a lot on hand as they don't. When you deposit cash it becomes represented digitally. Just a number on a ledger.

It's all the digital Money that will get wiped-out. A massive crash will make Cash, King.

Blogger Quizzer W June 03, 2015 4:12 PM  

It'll never happen. See, when the banks run out they'll just borrow from the FED, when the FED runs out it'll borrow from the EU and when the EU runs out it'll borrow from George Soros. When George runs out, the banks will give him a loan.

See all the pretty money swirling around and around? Look how sparkly it is! Watch it... watch it... around... around... back to sleep, peasants, back to sleep...

and RobertT:
Bitcoin is nice if you like a currency that tracks which wallet bought or sold every single block, recorded for all eternity. Governments love this about it. Karl Denninger did a lot of heavy lifting on Bitcoin analysis a couple years ago.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 03, 2015 4:13 PM  

But you can't "buy" land. You have in reality, a limited lease from the Government. They can, and will, evict you for any and all reasons. If this plays out, don't you think they will start forcing people off productive property?

This is a "End of State" situation. It means the currency is gone, and the State will soon follow.

Blogger Harsh June 03, 2015 4:14 PM  

If things get bad enough the best place to have put your money may be into firearms, ammo, and whiskey.

Well, I have one out of three covered anyway.

Anonymous Drew_Deuce's June 03, 2015 4:20 PM  

Ha! Wait til they come for my bank account. They'll be mighty disappointed.

I'm always one step ahead... hahahah

Blogger Noah B #120 June 03, 2015 4:23 PM  

Primary risks (as I see them) by asset class:

Stocks & bonds - market risk, bail-ins
Land - taxes, confiscation/theft, market risk (depending heavily on location & type)
Bank balances - hyperinflation, bail-ins, negative interest, regulatory risk (criminalizing the use of your own money)
Cash - confiscation/theft, devaluation or discontinuance, regulatory risk
Paper PM's - LOL
Physical PM's - confiscation/theft, short term market risk, regulatory risk
Other valuable physical assets - confiscation/theft, obsolescence, spoilage
Businesses - market risk, availability of goods and services necessary for continued operations
Bitcoin & cryptocurrencies - ???

Diversification, to at least some degree, is key. We can guess but none of us really knows how this will play out. I don't think that both cash and bank balances will lose their value except in a situation of near total economic collapse, which I definitely would not rule out.

Blogger Harsh June 03, 2015 4:27 PM  

Paper PM's - LOL

Paper precious metals does make for an amusing oxymoron, doesn't it?

Blogger Jack Ward June 03, 2015 4:31 PM  

A desperate government will do anything and everything to save their power and hides. Use of gold would probably be outlawed with nice payoffs to those that turn you in for trying to use gold. The dollars you hoard are just an executive order away from worthless when existing cash must be turned in for the 'new currency.'

Any level of government can take any real property they want; and, no recourse to the courts. The courts are mostly purchased long ago any way.

The military and the police will be given a choice. Do what we say to do even if it is illegal per the constitution or we will not provide protection and support for your families. And, those families will probably be 'secured' somewhere [fema camp] as insurance against any moral sense you might have as a cop or soldier.

Its really getting too real these days.

Blogger Rek. June 03, 2015 4:33 PM  

Should start to read zerohedge more often. Thank you for the post. I was aware of the bail-in happening behind our back but the update sure can't hurt.

Most people think that not following MSM regularly will keep you in the dark, so most people blindingly switch on the TV every night. Quite ironic. All the info worth knowing is not discussed in the MSM.

Blogger Noah B #120 June 03, 2015 4:38 PM  

"Most people think that not following MSM regularly will keep you in the dark, so most people blindingly switch on the TV every night. Quite ironic. All the info worth knowing is not discussed in the MSM."

Propaganda is an insidious attack on the mind. And no matter how good you think you are at spotting it, you're almost certain to believe one lie or another.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 03, 2015 4:52 PM  

Buy land. They can't print more of it.

They can't squeeze blood from a turnip either. I think I'll go out and pull a couple for supper, to remove a bit more wealth from their reach.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 5:03 PM  



IIRC, a significant percentage, if not an outright majority of folks forced off their land during the 1930's lost their property to property taxes, not the mortgage holder.

We always get the "government" to which our neighbors consent, and nowadays our neighbors have been weaned on the evils of wealth redistribution. Our political rulers will undoubtedly give into every demand to spread the wealth, taking but a small commission for themselves, naturally.

This might continue until there's nothing left to redistribute.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 5:03 PM  

This is a "End of State" situation. It means the currency is gone, and the State will soon follow.

No it isn't. The State will survive. It may go through a hiccup, but it will survive. They have played this out numerous of times. They have a plan, and their plan is better than your plan. Go out and start talking to people about all this. In the end, the people will panic, and the government will eventually come to save them. Maybe not you, but THEM. And there is more of them than you.

It may not be the country they were accustomed to, but it will do.

Blogger Harsh June 03, 2015 5:08 PM  

No it isn't. The State will survive. It may go through a hiccup, but it will survive.

Never studied history, did you?

Blogger Dan in Tx June 03, 2015 5:08 PM  

LOL @ another case of the ruling class thinking they are so smart but act like there will be no consequence for their action. I don't have my money is a big bank but just for giggles, let's pretend I did.
1. Mega U.S.A. bank suddenly declares bail - ins are on.
2. Mega U.S.A. bank sends me a letter giving me the bad news along the lines of, "All your deposits are belong to us."
3. I stop paying my debts, especially unsecured debt. Turns out, I owe Mega U.S.A. bank a hell of a lot more than what I had on deposit.
4. The masterminds of this plan sit around scratching their heads wondering why they didn't wind up with all this money that they thought they would when they came up with this brilliant plan.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 03, 2015 5:14 PM  

"The last thing the overlords want is for Joe Citizen to sidestep their deflationary catastrophe by simply sitting on banknotes."

In the past they simply issued new currency. You had to turn in your soon to be worthless paper for the new, devalued, currency.

@Steve Brown

Autodidact mostly. My family was/is working poor. I started reading at a young age and just kept at it. I have a Masters in "Information Assurance," but I only got my BS degree because I work in IT and HR started throwing away resumes that didn't have at least a Bachelor.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis June 03, 2015 5:16 PM  

Never studied history, did you?

I have to agree with Nobody, the world isn't going to go all Mad Max. What I expect will happen is that the state will simultaneously become more totalitarian and less able to enforce outside, and in some cases even in, certain areas.

Blogger Harsh June 03, 2015 5:22 PM  

I have to agree with Nobody, the world isn't going to go all Mad Max.

The end of the state doesn't necessarily imply a Mad Max scenario.

But if I can get my hands on a V8 Interceptor, I'm in.

Blogger luagha June 03, 2015 5:25 PM  

"Speaking of that, whatever happened to all the real estate whose title was clouded by MERS and the breaking the ownership of all those loans into MBS tranches? "

Some states had a 'go with it' law where they just acknowledged whoever claimed to have the ownership of the loan and went with it.

Other states did not, and cases were being worked through in those states. Sometimes various banks didn't want to get into it and MERS couldn't prove they owned something and the ownership went to the actual human living in the house. But this process was slow and did not happen in all states. Some people who got good lawyers and saw it through and had the luck to live in the right states were rewarded for being right.

Obama was pressured, early in his administration, to sign a national 'go with it' law, just to eliminate trouble. To his credit, he did not do it and for many years this was the only thing I could point to when people asked me, "Do you think Obama has done EVERYTHING evil and wrong?" I had to admit that his not signing that 'go with it' bill was the only thing he'd done right.

Of course, that could not stand. He did, eventually, about 4 years later, sign a national 'go with it' law and now MERS can stand in for the banks and tranche ownerships in the various real estate courts even though they lied and cheated and robosigned. Laws? Doing things right? Who cares!

And now when people ask me, "Has Obama done EVERYTHING wrong and evil?" I can answer, "Yes. Yes he has."

Blogger Jim June 03, 2015 5:26 PM  

Ammunition & Whiskey: The only sensible investment strategy.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 03, 2015 5:26 PM  

"3. I stop paying my debts, especially unsecured debt. Turns out, I owe Mega U.S.A. bank a hell of a lot more than what I had on deposit.
4. The masterminds of this plan sit around scratching their heads wondering why they didn't wind up with all this money that they thought they would when they came up with this brilliant plan."

I'm guessing they don't care about the people that owe them a bunch of money as much as the ones who don't.....and somehow live ok without debt or maybe even the state banking system....those are the people that keep the oppression class up at night.......I'm not one of them.......

I wonder how much and what kind of panic actually happens during a buy-in? Will I have enough time to go run up my credit cards with a bunch of ammo, whiskey etc, and then tell the bill collectors to talk to the banksters, cuz' they have all my money....hahah....

Anonymous DT June 03, 2015 5:28 PM  

1. Mega U.S.A. bank suddenly declares bail - ins are on.
2. Mega U.S.A. bank sends me a letter giving me the bad news along the lines of, "All your deposits are belong to us."


Honestly, at that point, I would have no moral issue with a group of depositors who decide that step 3 is: gather arms and proceed to the home of each bank officer to forcibly seize their real material assets.

I would also be OK with step 4: as necessary, use lethal force against any person acting under color of authority who tries to interfere.

Anonymous DT June 03, 2015 5:30 PM  

I have to agree with Nobody, the world isn't going to go all Mad Max.

Detroit would like to have a word with you, and Baltimore is waiting on line 3.

Anonymous p-dawg June 03, 2015 5:30 PM  

@ Trimegistus: You can "buy" all the land you want. They don't let you have allodial title anymore. If they want "your" land, they just take it. Also, if you don't pay rent (which we misname "property tax"), then the real owner evicts you from the property. If you're going to buy land, I don't recommend buying it in the USA.

Blogger YIH June 03, 2015 5:31 PM  

Looks like Blogger just did a tweak of the comments.
I refreshed the page and now each comment is numbered (before the name).

Blogger JartStar June 03, 2015 5:35 PM  

It is funny to see the Fed talk about raising rates soon, every quarter and soon never coming. I don't think they can do it, the cost of the current debt will be too much.

Anonymous Supernaut June 03, 2015 5:36 PM  

Centralized Banking and fiat currency means the Banksters are the ones who control the economy, the media, and own enough politicians to control the Governments. Since they control all that, the only thing we the sheeple need to understand is that the "economy" is perfectly under their control, and the "recession" is simply the part of the cycle where they make us all suffer from inflation and/or deflation so they can seize more control, buy up more capital and assets, take away more of our rights and implement another building block in their bankster run new world order. When "Bail Ins" are anounced, it's not really about Banks "seizing money because they are desperate," it's about the Banks ratcheting up the economic pressure on we the sheeple, to effect dramatic changes in our society and way of life.

Soon all currency's will be collapsed and the new, global, purely digital currency will become the only officially sanctioned medium of exchange. Then their control of the world that they have constantly been working for eons to achieve will be nearly complete...and only barter will be the official currency of exchange for the black market.

Got RFID chips?

Anonymous DT June 03, 2015 5:40 PM  

Got RFID chips?

No...but if the Federal Obamacare exchange is any indication, every script kiddie will be able to allocate themselves a million credits while simultaneously selling all your personal information to identity thieves.

Anonymous zen0 June 03, 2015 5:41 PM  

OMG the comments are numbered.....I have waited for this day for at least a decade.

I can die happy now.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 5:42 PM  

Never studied history, did you?

I'm not a historians, no. But I do read history for kicks. Thucydides, Tacitus, Herodotus. Just to name a few on my bookself.

And like I said: It may not be the country they were accustomed to, but it will do. The united States of America will not cease to exist. Maybe as you KNOW it, maybe in name, but it isn't going anywhere. Neither are governments.

Italy is still here. Greece. Egypt. Etc.

Anonymous Cheddarman, vile faceless minion 0187 June 03, 2015 5:44 PM  

There was a time when I would have laughed at hillbillies for burying their goodies in mason jars. Now i think the hillbillies will have the last laugh.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 5:46 PM  

And just to clarify, I am not saying this country, or the world for that matter, won't throw a hissy-fit. But in the end, see my last comment.

Blogger VD June 03, 2015 5:47 PM  

Looks like Blogger just did a tweak of the comments.
I refreshed the page and now each comment is numbered (before the name).


Not Blogger, but VP IT.

Anonymous Will Best June 03, 2015 5:49 PM  

This is why 60-70% of my investable assets are in real estate. Nobody is going to walk off with it. Yes they can slap a draconian tax on it, but they are going to exhaust a lot of indirect methods before they get to that hostile.

Though I suppose, that assumes 2008 was idiocy rather than malice. Divide and Conquer. High RE taxes crowds out independent land owners. The renter class won't care because that is too many logical steps for them. All they will see is their landlord charging too much. And of course they will turn to rent controls.

Blogger automatthew June 03, 2015 5:49 PM  

Looks like Blogger just did a tweak of the comments.
I refreshed the page and now each comment is numbered (before the name).


It's just a JavaScript trick Vox let me try out. It's also really flawed, in that the numbers will change if an admin deletes or spams comments. I suspect we'll be removing it for that reason.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 03, 2015 5:52 PM  

Attempts at securing your wealth %100 are just as foolhardy as women trying to make the world 100% safe. It cannot be done.

Agreed.

I have to wonder though if this will encourage people to pay off debt faster, its the closest thing to not having your money taken.

Personally I am seriously thinking of borrowing as much as possible and buying a house in the mountains along with a couple of shotguns.
Let them come and reclaim it when the zombie apocalypse starts.

Anonymous Amok Time June 03, 2015 6:09 PM  

How about the classless anus idiots?

Anonymous Molon Rouge June 03, 2015 6:11 PM  

"This is why 60-70% of my investable assets are in real estate. "

Why not invest all you have in Bank Stocks as they seem to be the ones that will be holding everyone's cash??

Blogger Doom June 03, 2015 6:11 PM  

Oh, it might be quashed, if taken to the wrong judge. However, taken to the right judge... think about this.

If interest rates become negative, or if an individual with a large debt to the bank... in either case, if they get a good bank of lawyers, they might well be able to flip that on it's ear and drag the bank into their debt... or would it be termed liquidity... problem. Think of it as bankruptcy, but more on a corporate level, with the bank being turned from just lender into a partner. Add a little clause into a complex loan, and you could black knight this right into a fiefdom!

Not saying I would do it, though if I had something going, and the wherewithal, plus nothing to lose, I sure might give it a shot. Well... don't say I never gave you anything.

Anonymous IsMise June 03, 2015 6:18 PM  

Back in the 80's people who bought gold and buried it were considered nuts. I'm gonna need a deeper hole.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 03, 2015 6:26 PM  

Italy is still here. Greece.

So because there's currently a country called Greece, the Greece of Pericles and Leonidas (not to mention its governments) never ceased to exist? Congratulations, you win the Asspie of the Day Award. You should give those books away to someone who can use them, like a random 13-year-old.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 6:30 PM  

Get on Ebay. Bid on Morgans, Standing Liberty, Franklin, etc. G to VF. Bid only on the commons, not key dates. Most of the SHTF coins I have I obtained below spot. You don't always win, but if you do it long enough, you'll get some good deals and get a pretty good horde. Play around with it for about a month and you'll learn Ebay and come to your method. And don't get bid happy. If you lose, you lose.

Blogger gunner June 03, 2015 6:44 PM  

Just consider what's happened to Venezuela as a model for what could happen. Once the banking goes they go after the merchants, once all the business are done they go after the landlords, once the land lords are done they go after the land owners, once they've consumed everything not tied down to keep their sorry behinds in power they retire to the South of France. And the majority of serfs will vote for this right on down the line. Currently you cannot even buy toilet paper there and cannot find a place to rent as they passed a law that land lords cannot evict renters for non-payment so no one pays and no one will rent out since they know you won't pay. Once the socialism really gets going it's hard to stop and it will destroy all wealth with no where to hide. Best advice is (if you can) have assets in as many countries as possible (which is what the rich Chinese are doing by buying houses everywhere they can).

Also, don't buy silver on E-bay, most of it is fake, you can't get something for nothing and the people selling them are not fools but the people buying it and thinking that they're getting it below spot certainly are.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 6:44 PM  

78. Cail Corishev: So because there's currently a country called Greece blah, blah, blah, blah.

The Greece of Pericles and Leonidas, as it was once known, has ceased to exist. But let me check. Yes, Greece is still there.

I can't help it if you are too stupid to follow. America will still be here, just not as we know it. Now you can carry on with arguing with yourself. I don't need a pet.

Anonymous p-dawg June 03, 2015 6:59 PM  

@Will Best: RE: increased property tax - the historical pattern is to double it one year, then double it again the next year, double it one more time the third year, and then reduce it back to normal the fourth year, once a bunch of land has been transferred out of private hands. It's my recommendation that you plan accordingly.

Anonymous Will Best June 03, 2015 7:02 PM  

Never understood the point of silver myself. 5 pounds of it only stores about $1500. You aren't going to put on a rucksack and lug it around.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 03, 2015 7:08 PM  

America will still be here, just not as we know it.

"America" isn't a sequence of 7 letters, you moron. That people in the future may use that word to refer to something that bears no resemblance to the America of today is meaningful because....?

Never double-down on stupid.

Blogger RBooster Man June 03, 2015 7:09 PM  

@Nobody
And like I said: It may not be the country they were accustomed to, but it will do. The united States of America will not cease to exist. Maybe as you KNOW it, maybe in name, but it isn't going anywhere. Neither are governments. Italy is still here. Greece. Egypt. Etc.


"Nobody" cannot tell the difference between monoethnic states and multicultural ones. Japan is older than the Roman Empire...

Anonymous 83. 84. 85. June 03, 2015 7:11 PM  

I wonder if Maxwell Smart will chime in soon...

Blogger RBooster Man June 03, 2015 7:16 PM  

@Cail Corishev

"Nobody" has no clue how societies actually hold together. His inability to tell the difference between monoethnic states and multicultural states means he has no idea why multiculturalism is bad.

Anonymous Jim R June 03, 2015 8:00 PM  

"Never understood the point of silver myself. 5 pounds of it only stores about $1500. You aren't going to put on a rucksack and lug it around."

silver is good for things like bread, hard to get a small enough piece of gold for that to work.

Blogger Harsh June 03, 2015 8:18 PM  

The Greece of Pericles and Leonidas, as it was once known, has ceased to exist. But let me check. Yes, Greece is still there.

I can't help it if you are too stupid to follow. America will still be here, just not as we know it. Now you can carry on with arguing with yourself. I don't need a pet.


The Aspergers is strong in this one. Nobody, Red Jack -- who made the original point -- was talking about the end of states, not countries. The end of the US Federal Government is not the same as the end of the country. And then you call Cail stupid because he points that out? Son, if you can't follow the point of a conversation, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 03, 2015 8:24 PM  

Every strategy offered (including the ones I prefer) has very real criticism.

These are very, very difficult times to plan for, so I must assume that living during them will be an order of magnitude worse than that.

FTR, doing the "survival blog, Mel Tappan thing of moving to the sticks worked very poorly for people after Argentina's 2001 meltdown. "Isolated" translated to "vulnerable" according to one seemingly credible blogger (Ferfal.)

I figure if everyone bugs out to the woods, the woods will be 1) crowded and 2) depleted of edible fauna in about three days.

Anonymous Geoff June 03, 2015 8:51 PM  

"Diversification, at least to some degree, is key"

Diversity is evil...except when it comes to one's investments.

Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber June 03, 2015 9:01 PM  

If you've come to the conclusion that burying your goods is a good idea.....well, consider ground penetrating radar. Learn to camouflage under ground....just sayin'.

Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber June 03, 2015 9:01 PM  

If you've come to the conclusion that burying your goods is a good idea.....well, consider ground penetrating radar. Learn to camouflage under ground....just sayin'.

Blogger Nobody June 03, 2015 10:39 PM  

This is a "End of State" situation. It means the currency is gone, and the State will soon follow.

The State will survive. It isn't going to go anywhere. Whether it is a aristocracy, timocracy, oligarchy, democracy, tyranny. It will survive. And so will the country as a distinct political geography. After all, what is a country but a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.

Blogger Nate June 03, 2015 11:56 PM  

They can declare war on cash till they are blue in the face.

We have gold.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly June 04, 2015 12:00 AM  

1. Go intro overdraft and take out as much credit as you can.
2. Put as much of that as you can into cash.
3. Pretend to spend it on booze, cigars and hookers.
4. When the banks try calling in their outstanding debts declare bankrupty.
6.....
7. Profit....until hyperinflation kicks in and my 10,000 dollars is barely enough to buy a happy meal.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 12:57 AM  

"We have gold."

And copper and lead. And fertilizer. Nails for caltrops. Swine for ... ah ... cleanup.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 1:24 AM  

Serge,

Have you considered devoting your life to Jesus, the Christ?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 04, 2015 1:24 AM  

Oh for cryin' out loud, Nobody. Pull your head out of your Asperger and drop this one. You missed the turn a ways back and I don't think you're going to get back on the road in time for this discussion.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 04, 2015 1:32 AM  

FTR, doing the "survival blog, Mel Tappan thing of moving to the sticks worked very poorly for people after Argentina's 2001 meltdown. "Isolated" translated to "vulnerable" according to one seemingly credible blogger (Ferfal.)

That's why my preference is move to a smallish rural town and make a lot of friends.

Anonymous Stilicho June 04, 2015 4:33 AM  

@Jack Amok, guess what I just did...

Anonymous Stilicho June 04, 2015 4:41 AM  

Not much time for detailed explanation for gold/deflation talk, so here's short version: gold is money and is becoming widely recognized again in this capacity... Money is a safe harbor in deflation... Debt deflation is coming with a vengeance.

N.B. Bitcoin is nearly as easy to track, manipulate, and confiscate as electronic entries at your local bank. Your govt loves electronic currency. Sure, limitations on printing it don't make it happy, but everything else about it is part of the govt end game for currency.

Blogger Nate June 04, 2015 8:43 AM  

'"America" isn't a sequence of 7 letters, you moron. That people in the future may use that word to refer to something that bears no resemblance to the America of today is meaningful because....?"

Actually kids I think you should step back and look at what Nobody actually said.

Because what he is saying is no different than what i've said dozens of times and none of you called me stupid when I said it.

Rome for example is a fantastic comparison... because yes... Rome the empire is gone... but there sits Rome the city and Italy the nation and no they are not the same as the Empire... but the culture is the same.

Oh... and multicultural?

Well the german horde that sacked Rome was imported there deliberately by the Romans for cheap labor.

Sound familiar?

Tennessee and Alabama... Ohio and Indiana... Wyoming and Colorado... These states ain't going anywhere. No matter what happens.

Now Nobody said "america may not exist as you know it today" and he's absolutely right. And I sure as hell hope it doesn't. Because America today sucks.

The coming storm is not the end of the world.

Yes... lots of things will be very different after its over. But ya know that's the great thing about hurricanes... Hurricanes always take out the trash.

Blogger RC June 04, 2015 10:09 AM  

One thing that is crystal clear for anyone paying a modicum of attention: The "authorities" are working to make it as difficult as possible to live free and to preserve wealth. To list and describe all the encroachments on the human liberties as understood by our Founding Fathers would take volumes.

As I've heard Doug Casey mention several times, they see us as current milk cows and potential beef cattle.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 04, 2015 10:13 AM  

Nate, I'm not calling Nobody stupid for what he's claiming, I'm calling him stupid for willfully misunderstanding what others are saying and arguing over some aspie definitions of things.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 04, 2015 10:18 AM  

guess what I just did...

I'm going to assume it wasn't "moved to Baltimore and opened a Bitcoin mint."

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 04, 2015 3:32 PM  

Nabbing deposits is financial rape like taxation is theft.

Blogger Nate June 04, 2015 9:11 PM  

"That's why my preference is move to a smallish rural town and make a lot of friends. "

The same thing I did 5 years ago?

Find a community guys. A neighborhood of families with similar interests and goals. No... everyone isn't going to be on the same page... but if there are 4 or 5 of you that have your mindset right... the rest will fall in line.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 04, 2015 10:20 PM  

The same thing I did 5 years ago?

I've been here almost 20, but I might be a bit older than you. Small town an hour away from the closest major city (which is one of the whiter ones in the country) on a back road, under 10k population, minimal vibrants, large percentage of families, an agricultural preserve with lots of fertile (often fallow) farmland and plenty of water, and lots of trees (plus guys who know how to fall them). Good group of shooting buddies, active maker culture...

We're kind of screwed if a new Ice Age starts, as our valley was carved by a glacier, but other than that, it's a decent place to ride out a storm.

Anonymous Mark #0038 June 05, 2015 10:38 AM  

The anti cash propaganda was taking place earlier this week on local TV news with a story on how many germs are on bills and coins. I lol'ed.

Anonymous Discard June 06, 2015 1:49 AM  

Mark #0038: Many years ago, we were all sent to watch a piece of propaganda called, The Prejudice Film". In it, a mother is shown telling her child, "Don't put that penny in your mouth! A dirty Nigger might have touched it!"

So, will the banksters take the hint and use an effective slogan or not?

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