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Monday, June 22, 2015

Free expression and cultural war

This seemed relevant in the present circumstances:
A lesson is learned most firmly when the application of what has been learned turns failure into success. The failure, in Clausewitz's estimation, was the humiliating defeat suffered by Prussia in 1806. He attributes this failure to Prussia's adherence to eighteenth-century methods of warfare against an opponent emancipated from the limitations of those methods. The success, as Clausewitz saw it, was the resurgence of Prussia as a military power and the victory over Napoleon in 1813-15. Clausewitz attributes this resurgence to the replacement of the small professional (eighteenth-century model) army by a mass (citizen) army; that is, by recourse to the weapon with which France dominated Europe for almost two decades. In other words, Prussia achieved full nationhood by accepting the principle of national war.
- The Clausewitzian Century, Anatol Rapoport
In like manner, the SJWs have dominated the public discourse for almost two decades by assiduously targeting, attacking, and disqualifying those public figures they deem dangerous to their Narrative. In their foolish confusion of method with objective, conservatives, libertarians, and liberals have, like Prussia, insisted on adhering to outdated methods and gone from defeat to defeat as a result.

This is why the SJWs are so ferociously fighting against Irene Gallo's well-deserved and overdue dismissal for cause by TOR Books. They know that the successful adoption and utilization of their own methods will lead to the freedom-loving right learning a very important lesson that will help bring about its resurgence at SJW expense.

We can beat them. We will beat them. The only way that we will fail is if we fail to emancipate ourselves from the limitations of outdated methods to which those who have been attacking us for over a decade do not subscribe.

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155 Comments:

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 8:24 AM  

Spot on!

It is this key insight that has brought me to be much more optimistic in our chances than I have been for over 30 years now.

This, and mockery, are the key.

(the guy who coined "SJW" advanced the cause more than the entire work of all National Review writers combined)

Anonymous AlteredFate June 22, 2015 8:35 AM  

Like I informed a concern troll yesterday, the difference between us and the traditional coalition of the right is we are here to win. Not to lose nobaly. We Don't Care about nobility, only victory.

Anonymous Hypocrites June 22, 2015 8:39 AM  

Yet Jesus says "turn your other cheek."

In this case, Sky Daddy makes sense.

Why can't you listen to your Pope and instead focus on fighting global warming?

Blogger Nate June 22, 2015 8:39 AM  

Could've used the The Revolutionary War as an example as well.

Anonymous Alexander, #10 June 22, 2015 8:54 AM  

From File 770's roundup:

I can barely skim the Puppy summaries at FILE 770 any more because I literally start to feel physically ill. These people and their utter lack of interest in facts, their lunatic paranoia, their rationales for justifying every kind of tactic and practice on the grounds of imagining and alleging that their enemies do it, their crazy tropes (the Nazis were really left-wing!; Planned Parenthood is genocidal!; Emanuel A.M.E. Church isn’t a black church!; Tor Books is an leftist ideological publisher!”), literally make me sick.

Sounds like an SJW with a triggered amygdala!

Anonymous Homesteader June 22, 2015 8:57 AM  

Insofar as we know how murderous and amoral these people are, they should be subject to all the trials they have imposed on others.

They'll come to realize how uncomfortable their own petards can be.

Anonymous Mike M. (minion #315) June 22, 2015 8:59 AM  

Vox, can we please ship the SJWs to St. Helena after we win?

Though somehow, I don't see any of them meriting a crypt in Les Invalides. :-)

Anonymous The Obvious June 22, 2015 8:59 AM  

Yes,

You can win by changing the rules, and you don't have to be a market maker to do it. If you want solid proof, I recommend a book called The Impossible Advantage.

It lists quite a few examples of small groups effectively remaking the industries they're in, and how to do it.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 22, 2015 9:00 AM  

Did somebody actually say it wasn't a black church? That's the first I've heard that.

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 9:03 AM  

That's right, VD!

Show the world you mean business by getting a private individual -hardly a 'public figure' - sacked from her employment from a SF publishing house no-one gives a flying shit about. REMEMBER THE PRUSSIANS!

Her heinous crime? Posting a nasty comment about himself (indirectly) on her personal web page. Her tone being no more or less vitriolic than countless comments VD has himself routinely directed at numerous figures online.

So we enter that curious world of the cyptro-conservative geek, wherein the matter of who receives a Hugo award this is akin to continental war in significance.

Until today, I haven’t commented about this Sad Puppies thing mainly because it is one of those extremely tedious farragoes that signify precisely nothing. But I have to admit, it sometimes throws up hilarity -such as VD’s preposterous self-importance displayed here. Funny.

Anonymous grey enlightenment June 22, 2015 9:04 AM  

If it seems like the SJWs are winning it's because they still have control over the hiring and firing of people. But public opinion on the other hand, is more evenly split. Even academia, a domain that is supposed to value free speech, professors have to worry about not offending these 'protected' groups of people and being forced to apologize or step-down. The left wants the freedom to offend people with their delusional beliefs, but not to be offended when people respond. They want free speech - only for the speech they approve of.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja June 22, 2015 9:09 AM  

The old left understood itself and understood its opponents. They spent a half century positioning themselves in the cultural high ground. When the culture war began, we on the right spent a half century getting mowed down in what amounted to endless human wave assaults against an enemy in fortified positions.

The new left does not understand us. And they no longer really understand themselves. They will continue to score victories through sheer inertia, but I think their ideals are growing stagnant and their moral prestige is starting to rot. As it rots, they will resort to naked force to silence the opposition and become more tyrannical. Where once they could silence with moral authority, now they have to use crowd sourced tyranny and institutional force.

We on the right have a better understanding of them, but we still haven't quite figured ourselves out yet. Until we do, we have to fight a cultural and intellectual insurgency from a position of material weakness, but one of small, but growing moral strength.

Remember, No war but the culture war.

Anonymous RS June 22, 2015 9:09 AM  

This whole ordeal has been absolutely hilarious. Vox literally tells the CHORFs what the RPs are willing and planning to do and how they will be defeated, yet they still feel compelled to walk directly into the buzzsaw. The most effective illustration of changing tactics is not the massive success RPs are seeing by adopting new tactics, but the complete inability of the SJW crowd to do so. Their shrieking, fainting spells, and outgrouping have been completely ineffective; however, they still have no other option than blitzing followed by watching the ball sail into their endzone.

(also, I propose that if RPs ever need to encrypt their communications to protect them from the mincing lefties, simply speak in sports terminology)

Anonymous Dr. J June 22, 2015 9:09 AM  

Yet Jesus says "turn your other cheek."

I'm pretty sure you haven't the first clue what this means. Dumbass.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 June 22, 2015 9:10 AM  

Is it just me, or are there more ankle-biters about lately? Vox must be doing something right to bring 'em out of the woodwork.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja June 22, 2015 9:14 AM  

@Bohm

There is a saying: It is better to cut off a single finger than to break five. Small victories now lead to bigger victories down the road.

Anonymous Soga June 22, 2015 9:19 AM  

To the poster named "Hypocrites:"

You want to give us biblical advice? Take this one first: first, take out the log in your eye, then you can take out the speck in your brother's eye.

No? Then STFU. Nice ironic name, though.

Anonymous Menelaus June 22, 2015 9:19 AM  

The SJWs are neo-nazi (the Democratic party is the new National Socialist party), misandrist (man-hating), homophobes (man-fearing).

Blogger Nate June 22, 2015 9:22 AM  

"Until today, I haven’t commented about this Sad Puppies thing mainly because it is one of those extremely tedious farragoes that signify precisely nothing. "

Window licker on Aisle five. Clean-up... Aisle five. Also someone help him get his helmet back on.

Anonymous Stingray June 22, 2015 9:23 AM  

the guy who coined "SJW" advanced the cause more than the entire work of all National Review writers combined

Given all we have learned National Review did more to hurt the cause than standing against history yelling stop. Rather they say, well okay. We'll give you that if you need it. But it must not go further. Wait, you need just a little bit more? Okay. But that's all . . . . okay? Promise?

Anonymous Soga June 22, 2015 9:23 AM  

Also, how is this a "turn the other cheek" situation? The goal here is literally to lift up a corporation of people, helping them meet a higher standard of behavior and attitude.

Troublemakers like Gallo and PNH actively hurt Tor Books and Macmillan. As liberals are so fond of saying to conservatives: "Actions have consequences."

Blogger VD June 22, 2015 9:24 AM  

Until today, I haven’t commented about this Sad Puppies thing mainly because it is one of those extremely tedious farragoes that signify precisely nothing. But I have to admit, it sometimes throws up hilarity -such as VD’s preposterous self-importance displayed here. Funny.

Yes, your posture of elevated amusement is about as convincing as John Scalzi's abandoned attempts to strike the same pose. The reason you are commenting here is because you are worried and you are hoping to demoralize your enemies. It won't work.

Is it just me, or are there more ankle-biters about lately? Vox must be doing something right to bring 'em out of the woodwork.

They believed, wrongly, that the people they consider to be "thought leaders" like Feder and PNH were out of reach. The discovery that this is not the case has alarmed them. Once Gallo and PNH are dismissed, as they will be sooner or later, you can expect the hysteria to increase by an order of magnitude.

And every reaction will expose new vulnerabilities. Which is why we have only to continue in order to be certain of winning this particular battle even if it takes 10 years. Look at how all of this has come about from ONE SINGLE POST recommending Hugo nominations.

Anonymous Stingray June 22, 2015 9:25 AM  

Show the world you mean business by getting a private individual -hardly a 'public figure' - sacked from her employment from a SF publishing house no-one gives a flying shit about.

You mean like the pizza place and bakeries? Huh. It sounds familiar somehow.

Anonymous Roundtine June 22, 2015 9:27 AM  

Why can't you listen to your Pope and instead focus on fighting global warming?

Well, you don't have to follow the Pope on these issues, bBut let's see what he told us to do to fight global warming:
(155) Human ecology also implies another profound reality: the relationship between human life and the moral law, which is inscribed in our nature and is necessary for the creation of a more dignified environment. Pope Benedict XVI spoke of an “ecology of man,” based on the fact that “man too has a nature that he must respect and that he cannot manipulate at will.” It is enough to recognize that our body itself establishes us in a direct relationship with the environment and with other living beings. The acceptance of our bodies as God’s gift is vital for welcoming and accepting the entire world as a gift from the Father and our common home, whereas thinking that we enjoy absolute power over our own bodies turns, often subtly, into thinking that we enjoy absolute power over creation. Learning to accept our body, to care for it and to respect its fullest meaning, is an essential element of any genuine human ecology. Also, valuing one’s own body in its femininity or masculinity is necessary if I am going to be able to recognize myself in an encounter with someone who is different. In this way we can joyfully accept the specific gifts of another man or woman, the work of God the Creator, and find mutual enrichment. It is not a healthy attitude which would seek “to cancel out sexual difference because it no longer knows how to confront it.”
Or maybe:
Since everything is interrelated, concern for the protection of nature is also incompatible with the justification of abortion.
Or is it:
We were created with a vocation to work. The goal should not be that technological progress increasingly replace human work, for this would be detrimental to humanity. Work is a necessity, part of the meaning of life on this earth, a path to growth, human development and personal fulfilment. Helping the poor financially must always be a provisional solution in the face of pressing needs. The broader objective should always be to allow them a dignified life through work.
Or perhaps:
We have had enough of immorality and the mockery of ethics, goodness, faith and honesty. It is time to acknowledge that lighthearted superficiality has done us no good. When the foundations of social life are corroded, what ensues are battles over conflicting interests, new forms of violence and brutality, and obstacles to the growth of a genuine culture of care for the environment.

As far as I can tell, most people here are already fighting global warming per the Pope's instructions. Fight the SJWs, Save the Planet.

Anonymous Alexander, #10 June 22, 2015 9:31 AM  

Show the world you mean business by getting a private individual -hardly a 'public figure' - sacked from her employment from a SF publishing house no-one gives a flying shit about.

You don't get to kill a freedom and then demand your enemies abide by it.

Or... I guess you can do it, but you really ought not be surprised when they don't.

Anonymous Anarchopurplism June 22, 2015 9:31 AM  

@ Bohm

Gallo's comments were not some random "nasty comment." She actually slandered authors who write for her company & customer who read their products. I am certain that the MN Twins would not put up with a baseball executive in their own organization said: "Joe Mauer is a nazi & Twins fans are misogynist pigs!"

VD is merely highlighting the importance of the big picture culture war as it relates to the corner of the world that matters to him (Computer Games & SF).

For year's freedom-loving freethinkers have had to put up with hostile, lying, pc-thought-control types in multiple areas of society. If you don't think the fight is worth it....nobody cares about your opinion. Go ahead & move along. I could give a hoot about pc games & SF, but this culture battle is fascinating.

So, is this the next SJW line of reasoning: "this Hugo thing really doesn't matter."

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 9:36 AM  

On the AME church issue raised above:

Let's not respond to this shit because the dishonest losers will use anything--even a good faith answer to a question that appears to be honest--as evidence we are somehow speaking for one side or another on this issue.

We're not. We have nothing to do with it. Don't give them anything to start new strings of lies off of.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 22, 2015 9:36 AM  

PROPOSAL:
I held back on emailing the lady at mcmillan. There was a reason for that. As manyvare busyvand we are all a bit lazy, and the SJWs think thisvwill blow over in a few days,

Let's all just send our emails concerning our demand for immediate dismissal of Gallo, Feder and PNH this week.

Let's keep up an ongoingvstream to mcmillan.
And lets do it by writing individual mails until we get replies and satisfaction.

Blogger Zach June 22, 2015 9:36 AM  

Bohm,

Please point to your impassioned defense of Brendan Eich when it was his employment at stake.

Yeah, didn't think so.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 22, 2015 9:42 AM  

Gallo was posting on her public Facebook page which she mostly uses to promote the works of Tor and while promoting her latest feminist work she decided to insult customers. When asked to clarify on her public social media platform to a customer what she meant she further defamed customers and some of the authors of Tor. That's hardly a 'private individual' thing.

Oh, and by your logic, everything posted on this forum is also a 'private' conversation. Surely you don't mean to use anything said here in private by private individuals against them, right? I saw some retard trying to drag Castalia into it the other day, I'll wait here for you to upbraid them - what handle will you be using?

Blogger Mint June 22, 2015 9:43 AM  

I wonder why people (who haven't commented on sad puppies until today) compelled to do so? To change VD's mind? With that kind of post? I don't think they are that clueless about VD to know it won't work. To convince other readers of their position? Nah... to insult? Really?! What for? Wasting their time and energy for things they claimed 'extremely tedious farragoes' so they can claim higher moral ground? What? I am pragmatic. So I do not understand doing something that has no purpose (seemingly to me).

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 22, 2015 9:45 AM  

Please point to your impassioned defense of Brendan Eich when it was his employment at stake.

He doesn't do impassioned, he does bemused reverse psychology. Get with the program!

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 22, 2015 9:45 AM  

Butbutbutbut Vox, gunning for Irene Gallo's job just isn't nice! We need to show ourselves to be the better men!

**********

Forget all that. I want Irene Gallo's head so I can nail it up on my doorpost (RHETORICALLY speaking, of course).

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 22, 2015 9:46 AM  

I've got to give Bohm some credit, though--farrago is a great word. Good usage! Would read again.

Blogger Daniel June 22, 2015 9:46 AM  

Going to send get well soon cards to all those sjws getting literally sick. Literally.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 22, 2015 9:48 AM  

Worth repeating,
Gents and ladies,
I propose that once a troll has been identified as a troll, no response other than perhaps "VD/Markku, troll at 12 o clock, please nuke" or "Go away you lying SJW liar. Your lies are showing. As always"
once, and then that's it.

Keep in mind that making us use up energy better spent exposing them for the lying sacks of shit they are in other parts of the Internet is part of their gameplan.

If you MUST respond I suggest you do so by posting elsewhere an expose on one or more of them. Tweet, blog post, comment on other blogs, provide links, etc. In other words, respond to each of their lies with truth and expose them.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 22, 2015 9:51 AM  

Jourdan - I don't want to give the deliberately retarded any more ammo but that was the first time I'd heard anyone even suggest such a thing on any forum that I've read. Their lies are usually wrapped around a kernel of truth (such as a quote), so it's best to know the truth of the matter to refute it.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 22, 2015 9:51 AM  

@ 3 Yet Jesus says "turn your other cheek."

Pro-tip for all the liberals, agnostics, buttpirates, and other assorted rabble out there - if you don't believe the Bible to begin with, then you have no business cherry-picking one verse and misapplying so you can try to score a "win" on somebody. It is painfully apparent that you haven't got a clue, and it is equally apparent that none of us need to pay the least bit of attention to your flophouse theologising.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 22, 2015 9:54 AM  

"We need to show ourselves to be the better men!"

Heh. They scampered to the back lines to lick their wounds when we took the field. Fun time.

Anonymous Minion #0172 June 22, 2015 9:56 AM  

Vox, do you think it useful for the RPs to have a presence at Sasquan? I was planning to go, but the more I hear about what goes on at these things, the kind of people you meet, the dreary panels and joyless events, I'm reconsidering. And as the SJW comments on The Third Law in Action thread yet again prove them incapable of rational discourse, what would be the point beyond the fascination one gets on overturning a rock and seeing the vermin squirm?

Please advise.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 22, 2015 10:02 AM  

With the SJW ascending the left's hierarchy the Right will come to dominate the cultural scene within a decade.

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 10:02 AM  

I hear you Elocutioner. I have a hard time imaging anyone would deny a AME church is black as well.

Blogger VD June 22, 2015 10:02 AM  

Vox, do you think it useful for the RPs to have a presence at Sasquan?

Potentially, yes. We will a few folks there, not all of them openly RP.

Anonymous Soga June 22, 2015 10:02 AM  

We ARE being the better men here, though. It's not very loving to leave evildoers to their evil deeds. Evildoers should have their deeds exposed so that they will have the opportunity to repent and become better men and women.

Gallo losing her job would be an opportunity for her to reflect on her behavior and come to repentance and a change of heart.

We're doing this to help her and to thwart the dark deeds of the SJWs.

Seems like the anklebiters here are trying to propagate cruelty, crassness, and evil.

Turn the other cheek, you SJWs!

Anonymous Stingray June 22, 2015 10:05 AM  

I wonder why people (who haven't commented on sad puppies until today) compelled to do so?

It's an attempt to shame. It's also projection. They would feel shame if they did what Vox and the Ilk are doing to Irene Gallo so they try to shame us to tow the line as well. The fact that Vox and the Ilk don't feel shame at this is inconceivable.

In the warren shame is a very powerful tool.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 10:10 AM  

"I want Irene Gallo's head so I can nail it up on my doorpost (RHETORICALLY speaking, of course)."

Oh, and don't forget, your PERSONAL views don't represent VD or his affiliates, you are speaking strictly for yourself.

Clarify, clarify, clarify! You don't want to risk being MISUNDERSTOOD!

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 22, 2015 10:15 AM  

Three reasons (among others perhaps, but these stand out) we're going to win this battle, and then expand into the wider culture wars:

1. We're just using Alinsky's rules ourselves. It's about time. Works great too: IDENTIFY them. Publicly NAME them. TARGET them for the same treatment they intended for their victims...and more.

2. The moniker "SJW", as Jourdan said, is absolutely priceless (I think it may have been Larry Correia who coined it).

3. Perhaps most important of all, the one weapon that is simultaneously most devastating, most empowering, and most entertaining: "We don't care." It's as simple as that. It just yanks the rug right out from under them. Fun to watch'em tumble too..

Blogger Student in Blue June 22, 2015 10:17 AM  

@Stingray
It's an attempt to shame. It's also projection. They would feel shame if they did what Vox and the Ilk are doing to Irene Gallo so they try to shame us to tow the line as well.

It's "toe the line", as in lining up nice and orderly with your toes on the line. People using "tow the line" is starting to become a pet peeve.

Anyway, what I was wanting to say was for everyone else to realize that the shame they would feel is not because of methods used, but because of who it's against.

"There are no bad methods, only bad targets" is their effective motto, after all.

Blogger napari June 22, 2015 10:17 AM  

22. VD
Vox is 100% correct in his analysis! Back in 2008 I started debating leftists, of course to no avail, but they showed me their tactics so I benefitted. I was told all the same stuff.

I was smart if I agreed and stupid if I disagreed.

Leftists idea of compromise is to see how much ground I was willing to give up with themselves giving ...drum roll...zero!

If I scored points they would ignore my comments. Never an acknowledgement!

If I would catch them in a falsehood they would change the subject, conflate or obfuscate.

I took my lumps. Insults and all the vitriol that came with it. Now Im still out there attacking them and have become known. Their most skilled writers now get assigned to try and handle me. Now I am unafraid. I simply use the exact same ignore, conflate and obfuscate tactics they used to use on me and by myself I am managing to upset and demoralize groups of 4, 5 and 6 of them. Just as Vox advises I am merciless and they resent it 100%. Since they are never going to be reasonable once or twice daily I will go in on any subject and beat them for awhile. Sorry but even though it may be sinful, after getting beat for several years, I do enjoy dishing it out. At this point I'm all out of goodwill for these lying weasels.
Best of all! It was reading this blog that helped me realize why and how the leftists would win in debates. Once I realized leftists were never ever going to be reasonable I became totally unreasonable myself.

All the best from a wannabe fly on the wall that has learned much from all contributors on the Vox blog.

Blogger Student in Blue June 22, 2015 10:18 AM  

2. The moniker "SJW", as Jourdan said, is absolutely priceless (I think it may have been Larry Correia who coined it).

I've seen it used for a while on 4chan. It is not a new term by any means, as this movement has been festering for years.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 22, 2015 10:19 AM  

Potentially, yes. We will a few folks there, not all of them openly RP.

Vile Faceless Minions should remain faceless after all.

It should prove vastly amusing.

They will know we are there of course. But they won't know who we are. The CHORFs will see Judas on the face of every stranger and behave predictably.

Anonymous VFM #0158 June 22, 2015 10:20 AM  

Ahhhhh, the sweet, sweet hysteria of SJWs finally getting a well-deserved taste of their own medicine.

Anonymous DeepThought June 22, 2015 10:25 AM  

I strongly suggest giving purchased Tor books to the local library or used book store. Every Tor book checked out or purchased used is one less sale for Tor. Sound advice or is there a flaw?

Anonymous Stingray June 22, 2015 10:27 AM  

It's "toe the line", as in lining up nice and orderly with your toes on the line.

Thank you.

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 10:27 AM  

The reason you are commenting here is because you are worried and you are hoping to demoralize your enemies.

Yeah, I’m really worried about my Hugo Award enemies this year. Are you kidding me?!

I get it that some Conservative-minded folks don’t like the way SF seems to be going - in their estimation. I can’t comment on the fiction in question cause I haven’t read a Hugo winner since Asimov’s ill-advised Foundation Edge.

But I also get it that SF&F has indeed become more ‘feminine’ in outlook, with all the cloying messaging that entails. Guess what, this is because SF hasbecome more feminine - more women are reading and writing SF&F. Loads more. Personally I blame Harry Fucking Potter and fucking vampires and that other thing. Blokes, meanwhile, prefer SF games and movies. Notwithstanding the Gamer Gate farrago, I think we can all agree that the CoDs and GTAs of this world are quite safe from the SJWs.

If people are vexed about the direction of SF, there seems to me two ways to go about things, the good way and the bad way. And you, VD, have curiously elected to pursue both paths.

The good way: establish a publishing house to promote your kind of SF and let the market decide - in this instance an entirely appropriate strategy. Who knows, boutique house today, powerhouse tomorrow.

The bad way: act like your running for office -in Uzbekistan. Stuffing ballots, demonising opponents, inter alia. Causing an almighty stink all round, alienating readers who might otherwise have had some sympathy for your position, myself included.

For all its Clausewitzian grandeur, it seems to me that the bad way has one major strategic flaw. While you may ‘win’ the Hugos this year, what happens next year? And the year after that? Are the Sad Puppies going to continue fixing the ballot for the foreseeable? That stuff can get very old, very quickly.

I dare say you have considered this problem and have a devilish -(or angelic, if you prefer) plan in hand. But I think this Hugo battle can only deliver diminishing returns. If the puppies succeed in destroying the Hugo for good, what does that achieve? Obviously, you regard this as merely a step-stone to greater victories in the wider culture war - don’t bet on it.

So, is this the next SJW line of reasoning: "this Hugo thing really doesn't matter.”

It’s my line of reasoning, I don’t about the SWJs.

As I said, I haven’t made a comment about this thing until now, and you’ll be delighted to know that after today I won’t pitch in again.

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 10:28 AM  

I would say no, DT, especially as librarians are a strong left-wing cadre and will probably use such donations to political advantage. I strongly prefer mailing them back with a demand for a refund.

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 10:28 AM  

Actually, the last Hugo winner I read was Hyperion, by that bloke.

Anonymous NotAFan June 22, 2015 10:34 AM  

Just watch out if you go to Sasquan/other conventions. I was a smallish convention near Tor's home turf and was sexually propositioned by a female Tor (not Gallo) author, and then treated very crudely the rest of the convention. They are a reprehensible bunch. I am pretty sure it's par for the course for Tor to employ the most boorish, lurid, terrible people in the industry.

Anonymous NotAFan June 22, 2015 10:34 AM  

Sorry, I wrote author, I meant, employee.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 10:35 AM  

" . . . in this instance an entirely appropriate strategy."

That's nice.

"Stuffing ballots, demonising opponents, inter alia. Causing an almighty stink all round, alienating readers who might otherwise have had some sympathy for your position, myself included."

1. 'Demonising opponents': a lie (They demonize themselves)

2. 'Causing an almighty stink': a lie (They already stink)

3. 'Alienating readers': a lie (They alienate themselves)

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 22, 2015 10:37 AM  

Bohm, per rules of the blog. Please provide proof of ballot stuffing by anyone or withdraw the slanderous accusation.

And yes unlike in the SJW world, 'ballot stuffing' has a specific meaning.

Blogger Tallawampus June 22, 2015 10:37 AM  

Oh! His name is *Bohm*!

First time I read it I thought it said Rohm and he was trying to be hipster ironic.

Anonymous VFM #0231 June 22, 2015 10:40 AM  

Got my Hugo confirmation email this morning from Sasquan. I'm #9689, which suggests that the participation level this year is running about triple the usual.

Blogger Feather Blade June 22, 2015 10:44 AM  

@ 55 Bohm

You are historically ignorant, Bohm.

Women have been writing in the genre since it was invented. The presence of women writers has nothing to do with decline in quality.

The presence of Marxists, on the other hand...

Anonymous BGS June 22, 2015 10:44 AM  

I can barely skim the Puppy summaries at FILE 770 any more because I literally start to feel physically ill. These people and their utter lack of interest in facts,

I posted a comment there it might not make it through. :
If you where so disingenuous that you would look at a city whose schools where 8% black but 71% of students arrested are black & think San Francisco is KKK headquarters my love, the hugo award winning story of reality.

Show the world you mean business by getting a private individual -hardly a 'public figure' - sacked from her employment from a SF publishing house no-one gives a flying shit about

Please show me anyone who has written code that was for Brendan Eich to be fired. None of the SJW CHORFs knew about him before the campaign against him despite all he did for the internet. 3rd worlders take for granted that which was build by Asians and whites.

You mean like the pizza place and bakeries?

Apple CEO Timmy Cook called for a boy cot of Indiana because he couldn't get pizza served at his gay wedding, he has no problem doing business with nations that execute gays because he wouldn't pay a smelly 3rd worlder for sex.

do you think it useful for the RPs to have a presence at Sasquan? Potentially, yes. We will a few folks there, not all of them openly RP.

To identify each other do something the SJW's wont. Take daily showers.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 22, 2015 10:45 AM  

Clarify, clarify, clarify! You don't want to risk being MISUNDERSTOOD!

I think it's an attempt to be clever by emphasizing RHETORICALLY with all caps like that, given VD's fondness of contrasting rhetoric with dialectic. Sadly, in context, it's clear that the word he meant to use was figuratively, not rhetorically, and you can't simply substitute one for another since they're not synonyms.

Anyway...

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 10:48 AM  

@notafan

I am pretty sure it's par for the course for Tor to employ the most boorish, lurid, terrible people in the industry.

To be fair, their offices are in New York City.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 22, 2015 10:49 AM  

The bad way: act like your running for office -in Uzbekistan. Stuffing ballots, demonising opponents, inter alia. Causing an almighty stink all round, alienating readers who might otherwise have had some sympathy for your position, myself included.

For all its Clausewitzian grandeur, it seems to me that the bad way has one major strategic flaw. While you may ‘win’ the Hugos this year, what happens next year? And the year after that? Are the Sad Puppies going to continue fixing the ballot for the foreseeable? That stuff can get very old, very quickly.


Ah, you've dropped the bemused above it all stance and become merely concern troll after all. All the while, projecting all of the things that the Marxists have done to the Hugos onto the Puppies. You lost it right there. While we could all see your tells easily enough to ignore you before this, when you trotted out the "stuffing ballots" and "demonizing opponents" lies, you screwed up your bluff. Now even the dimmest spectator who reads the comments and has even a passing familiarity with the Sad Puppies initiative will see you as a lying concern troll.

Couldn't keep away and leave well enough alone, could you?

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 10:52 AM  

"I think it's an attempt to be clever by emphasizing RHETORICALLY with all caps like that, given VD's fondness of contrasting rhetoric with dialectic."

Fair enough. My take was that he didn't want to frighten the SJWs who might feel like their actual lives were being threatened. It was for their benefit.

Also, the SJWs are always 'clarifying' (i.e. lying) and re-clarifying (i.e. lying some more) their position every time the current position (i.e. lie) they hold is shown to be untenable.

Anyway . . .

Blogger bob k. mando June 22, 2015 10:54 AM  

8. The Obvious June 22, 2015 8:59 AM
You can win by changing the rules, and you don't have to be a market maker to do it. If you want solid proof, I recommend a book called The Impossible Advantage.



ie - of which, rent seeking and regulatory capture would be two primary strategies. iow, the corporatism / fascism we have in the States today.



10. Bohm June 22, 2015 9:03 AM
Show the world you mean business by getting a private individual -hardly a 'public figure' - sacked from her employment



you mean, just like the Left does on a nearly daily basis?

yeah.

you obnoxious little fucks don't like it much when it's your turn to sup from the shit bowl, do ya?




31. Mint June 22, 2015 9:43 AM
I am pragmatic. So I do not understand doing something that has no purpose (seemingly to me).



the generation of confusion and chaos is, in no small part, an essential element of their tactics.

because you can't fight against their pull to go a certain direction if you don't even understand that there is a group ( or even individual ) attempting to pull in a certain direction.

it's a form of the classic magician's misdirection.

the particular form of the misdirection is pretty much irrelevant. the purpose is to get you to LOOK AWAY from the machinations that are going on.

that's why what Vox is doing is so important AND effective.

we're nailing the SJWhorerriors down on the salient *and not permitting them to distract us*.



3. Hypocrites June 22, 2015 8:39 AM
Why can't you listen to your Pope and instead focus on fighting global warming?



uh, because i and the majority of the regulars ( including the host ) here are NOT Catholics? so he's NOT "our" pope?

you fucking moron.




40. Minion #0172 June 22, 2015 9:56 AM
Please advise.



there's a reason why i was posting travel and Spokane area tips ( like local gun ranges ) earlier. you Left Coasters need to get together and have your own activities planned.

it should be primarily an Ilk get together with some Sasquan skiffy salted in, just so you don't get over whelmed with the stupid.

i would also recommend multiple recording devices being used as i would not be surprised by false accusations of harassment or assault.

as for myself, i'm not going be in attendance unless i happen on a Seattle / Kelowna delivery right about that time. and that's dead season for RV shipping ... so, probably not.

Blogger Student in Blue June 22, 2015 10:57 AM  

Funny how last week I was supposed to be unemployed thanks to the blog owner.

Yet here I am.


You have no clue how slow the law works, do you?

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 10:58 AM  

Gallo's comments were not some random "nasty comment." She actually slandered authors who write for her company & customer who read their products.

Are you sure about that?

VD is merely highlighting the importance of the big picture culture war as it relates to the corner of the world that matters to him (Computer Games & SF).

I get that. The irony is that for all his ‘enemies’’ evil intent, both sides have more in common than not - their enthusiasm for SF. I dunno, maybe your culture war doesn’t work like that.

Oh, and by your logic, everything posted on this forum is also a 'private' conversation.

Kinda. The point is, no-one is going to get sacked for a comment made here - I hope.

It’s all very well for VD to insist that this woman is sacked - no-one is going to sack him. Perhaps he might have a care for his fortunate position.

I wonder why people (who haven't commented on sad puppies until today) compelled to do so? To change VD's mind?

I admit, I might hope to give VD pause. Of course I know this ain’t going to happen.

Bohm, per rules of the blog. Please provide proof of ballot stuffing by anyone or withdraw the slanderous accusation.

I don’t mean precisely stuffing of ballots, you know -but that thing that happened with the nominations.

Oh! His name is *Bohm*!

Nothing significant in the handle - I choose it while listening to a Carl Bohm recording.

Anonymous Minion #0172 June 22, 2015 10:59 AM  

"To identify each other do something the SJW's wont. Take daily showers."

Everybody I've spoken with who has attended WorldCons says the same thing about lethal SJW BO. Thought they were kidding me.

Here's a thought. We should wear nosegays, as ID and protection.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2015 11:02 AM  

I wonder why people (who haven't commented on sad puppies until today) compelled to do so?

First, there's a good chance they have commented on it before; they just change usernames so they won't be identified and because it helps with the whole "above it all" act.

Other than that, it's performance art. They think it makes them look smart, and their SJW friends will pat them on the back when they tell them how they made us look foolish. Doesn't matter what's actually said; it's just motions they go through while developing the narrative in their minds. Fish stories: "You should'a seen the way I schooled those haters over at Beale's site today; it was this big!"

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 11:10 AM  

"The point is, no-one is going to get sacked for a comment made here . . ."

Duh. Nobody here is employed in a professional capacity (mis)representing an organization by vilifying and demonizing the consumers and producers of said organization.

"I hope."

That's nice.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes June 22, 2015 11:11 AM  

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.”— Sun Tzu


It is my conviction that the right has historically had a very poor understanding of the left and what motivates it, therefore, it has been impotent in fighting it.

I posted on another thread that the most fundamental difference is involves the nature of man. The right believes man is fallen and therefore each man must constantly seek to improve himself, the left believes man is good so any evil done by man is due to circumstance.

This difference explains why the left never looks inward. All battles are external. All foes are from without. The leftist individual must never be asked to improve. Instead, society must change to accommodate his every peculiarity. The individual must never be held to standards of virtue. Instead, any expression by the individual is proclaimed good, and any objections by society are proclaimed bad.

For example, if you are fat, you do not need to examine whether you have a self control issue, or whether objectively you have made yourself less desirable sexually. Instead, you proclaim that body-acceptance is a great social good, and anyone who doesn’t accept your beauty is a bigot. You then redefine accepted standards of beauty and health.

It’s such a simple formulation: The individual must never be required to change.

Understanding this reveals that our enemy is psychologically week. If the only thing they have been conditioned to do is project emotionally, then any real opposition can only be met with shrieks and hand wringing. This is why the left always seeks political power. Without it, they are truly weak and impotent. Men of the left are not builders of civilization, only parasites upon it. Without the host organism, they simply wither.

The real cultural war is going to be largely a political one. The individual SJWs are weak, pathetic, and morally repugnant. It is only when they can appropriate the power of the state that they become strong. But this is not real strength. Strip away their source of power and they wilt.

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 11:14 AM  

You are historically ignorant, Bohm.

Women have been writing in the genre since it was invented


You amaze me.

While we could all see your tells easily enough to ignore you before this

Thanks for your response. I have no idea what a ‘concern troll’ is. But where’s the lying?

First, there's a good chance they have commented on it before; they just change usernames so they won't be identified and because it helps with the whole "above it all" act.

I only comment here using ‘Bohm’. VD’s blog used to have quite an interesting mix of topics to scoff at (I’m rarely in sympathy with VD’s views, I grant you.) Obviously, in recent times, It has become a monotone platform banging on about SPs and SWJs. And, if I may put on my ‘above-it-all’ hat, I haven’t summoned the requisite interest to make cogent and hard-hitting observations until today. And that only happened coz VD cunningly lured me in with a post about 2040.

Nobody here is employed in a professional capacity..

That I can believe.

oh wait, there’s more:
…(mis)representing an organization by vilifying and demonizing the consumers and producers of said organization.

..yet.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 11:14 AM  

43. VD
Vox, do you think it useful for the RPs to have a presence at Sasquan?- #0172

Potentially, yes. We will a few folks there, not all of them openly RP. -VD

I'm really on the fence too, might go, probably not. I'm in Seattle, not too far away. I'd have to be openly Vile and Faceless, though.

One possibility would be to introduce an amendment to the rules at the Sat. night Worldcon business meeting, barring Pedophiles & Their Associates from attending Worldcon or receiving Hugos. As one SFWA member* put it, he'd show up for that with a bag of popcorn. "Pedos & Associates" would include authors like David Gerrold (Worldcon Guest of Honor) who write approvingly of pedos in stories published by houses similar to Tor Books.

*Forgot his name, (O-something...?) his wife outed a lesbian pedo/SF author... Marion Bradley? Should pedosfauthor be a single word?

"I was planning to go, but the more I hear about what goes on at these things, the kind of people you meet, the dreary panels and joyless events, I'm reconsidering. ...what would be the point beyond the fascination one gets on overturning a rock and seeing the vermin squirm?" -Minion #0172

Others have noted that the various SJW scream queens seem to be getting louder and less effective with each iteration. The fascination for me is in watching this psychodynamic unfold, not for the schadenfreude but for the science, particularly the military science. With each iteration, we learn and then apply.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 22, 2015 11:14 AM  

IMO what separates the Minion Free Expression movement from the Noble Losercons is the fact that the Minions do not accept the notion that the Left and its shock troops the SJW as morally superior.

That is a sea change probably on the scale of Reagan stating the obvious that the USSR was the Evil Empire. (stating the obvious is not a strong suite of the right, they love them some lengthy essays about the abstract)

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2015 11:14 AM  

The moniker "SJW", as Jourdan said, is absolutely priceless

Yes. Every once in a while, someone will suggest changing the W to something accurate, but that completely misses the point. They hate being called SJWs, because it shines a light on what scrabbling little nitwits they are. It's perfect.

As for who coined it, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The term "political correctness" was coined by college leftists who thought it perfectly described the speech codes they were instituting. And it did -- too well, to the point that it's now a term of derision that they run from. So I wouldn't be surprised if the first person to say "Social Justice Warrior" was referring to himself unironically, picturing himself with armor and a sword, slaying the dragons of social injustice.

Blogger VD June 22, 2015 11:18 AM  

The bad way: act like your running for office -in Uzbekistan. Stuffing ballots, demonising opponents, inter alia. Causing an almighty stink all round, alienating readers who might otherwise have had some sympathy for your position, myself included.

No ballots were stuffed. The opponents are demons. The alienated were never going to sympathize. Concern harder.

For all its Clausewitzian grandeur, it seems to me that the bad way has one major strategic flaw. While you may ‘win’ the Hugos this year, what happens next year? And the year after that? Are the Sad Puppies going to continue fixing the ballot for the foreseeable? That stuff can get very old, very quickly.

I'm sure you and a lot of other people would like to know. You'll find out next year. But I see no reason why we should tire of being nominated any sooner than Mike Glyer or David Hartwell have. I have a mere 3 nominations, I'll need 50+ more just to catch up to those fellows.

Blogger VD June 22, 2015 11:20 AM  

It has become a monotone platform banging on about SPs and SWJs.

See, and there you are caught lying AGAIN. There are multiple posts almost every day that have nothing to do with either. But apparently you're not interested in the Greek default drama, the possibility of the EU breaking up, or European football.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 11:21 AM  

"Nobody here is employed in a professional capacity..

That I can believe."

As an employee of say, Castalia House, you ninnie.

If roles were reversed, and a professional editor of CH pulled the same stunt that Ms. Gallo did, do you really think that VD would sit idly by while his customer base and authors were disparaged, denigrate, and defamed?

"I admit, I might hope to give VD pause. Of course I know this ain’t going to happen."

We are awed by your prescience.


Blogger Jack Ward June 22, 2015 11:24 AM  

Lately it's seemed to me that all the SP/RP dustup would get the sjw A team commenters here. Not seen that so much. Do they even have an A team? If what I see at 770 and here is their best then why have we waited so long to pounce?

Anonymous Scintan June 22, 2015 11:26 AM  

Are you sure about that?

If you're going to troll the joint, at least bring something new to the table. It's bad enough that you're spouting idiocies. It's worse that they are the same idiocies we've had to deal with time after time.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2015 11:26 AM  

Concern harder.

Heh. That might be as good as, "Thank you for your concern."

Anonymous Imnobody June 22, 2015 11:27 AM  

@Mint

They do it because, being worthless individuals, they derive all their self-esteem from adhering to SJW causes. This way, they can picture themselves as warriors, as being "on the right side of history". This bolsters their fragile self-esteem. In reality, they are mostly a bunch of losers hiding behind their keyboards.

They can come here, mock us so they feel superior and get a fix of self-esteem that allows them to get through the day.

@Giuseppe

I second the proposal of Giuseppe at 6:48. Trolls are going to come here more and more. It would be a mistake to argue with them: they are completely indoctrinated. Why are we wasting our energy on these leftbots with two neurons who only repeat three worn-out slogans and half-baked ideas? We can use this energy for more productive endeavors.

Blogger bob k. mando June 22, 2015 11:27 AM  

77. Bohm June 22, 2015 11:14 AM
I haven’t summoned the requisite interest to make cogent and hard-hitting observations


muwahahahahahahahahaha.

well, you may be failing miserably at Concern Trolololling but you are exceeding all expectations in Comedy Relief.



82. VD June 22, 2015 11:20 AM
See, and there you are caught lying AGAIN.



because, you know, he's not a SJWhorerrior. he's really not.

really, REALLY not.

all together, class.

WHAT do SJWs *always* do?

Blogger Jourdan June 22, 2015 11:28 AM  

It's not the A team, but it's not that far off. For example, their prime A team writes for the New York Times.

The New York "we have so few readers we had to be bailed out by a known criminal Mexican businessman with the ridiculous name of Slim" Times.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 22, 2015 11:29 AM  

Whoa Gamma Alert!

Behold my vile faceless brethren. The Secret Kings walk amongst us this day!

Anonymous 334 June 22, 2015 11:30 AM  

@3. Hypocrites

Yet Jesus says "turn your other cheek." In this case, Sky Daddy makes sense.

Yes, he certainly said that -- to his individual followers. And many of us practice it -- as individuals. When someone mistreats me at work, I try to manage my response rather than cutting loose intemperately. When someone loses it with me, I try to respond moderately. "A soft answer turns away wrath", and so on.

From the flippant, "Sky Daddy" reference, I get that you don't care about scripture. But for those who do, Jesus also made it clear that you cannot devote to God that which rightly belongs to someone else (Mark 7:9-13). So I can turn my own cheek. But I have no right to turn the cheek of my parents, my wife, my children, my friends, my neighbourhood, my country or my culture. The same Jesus who let soldiers spit in his face overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple. He would turn his own cheek, but not his Father's.

So there's your answer. There's no hypocrisy involved on our part. You've declared cultural war. You mock our God and our values, and try to misuse words you don't understand to your own advantage. We are under no obligation to indulge you or tolerate your nonsense.

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 11:33 AM  

No ballots were stuffed.

Yes, my legal people have assured me that the Hugo nominations this year were arrived at in an entirely above-board and legitimate manner.

However, legal have also noted that use of the word 'demons' may constitute vilification and be found groundless.

Concern harder

You don’t really mean that, do you?

I see no reason why we should tire of being nominated any sooner than Mike Glyer or David Hartwell have. I have a mere 3 nominations, I'll need 50+ more just to catch up to those fellows.

May your endeavours garner many deserved accolades.

Anonymous Imnobody June 22, 2015 11:34 AM  

@334

He is going Alinsky. #4 and #5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

Just ignore it. He is not worthy of your time.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 11:35 AM  

"And that only happened coz VD cunningly lured me in with a post about 2040."

Sucker.

His powers of mind control are unfathomable. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Blogger James Dixon June 22, 2015 11:49 AM  

> ...do you think it useful for the RPs to have a presence at Sasquan? I was planning to go, but the more I hear about what goes on at these things, the kind of people you meet, the dreary panels and joyless events, I'm reconsidering.

Go with a couple of friends who also like Sci-Fi if possible. The vendor tables are almost always worth checking out, and you can sometimes meet people (I met both Phil Foglio and Gary GyGax as vendors at a cons I attended in my younger years) that are worth meeting. And there's the occasional good looking Leia or 7of9 running around. :)

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 11:51 AM  

48. Student in Blue
It's "toe the line", as in lining up nice and orderly with your toes on the line. People using "tow the line" is starting to become a pet peeve.
------------------

Why reign in poor usage and affect change by honing in on that one?

Anonymous SJW June 22, 2015 11:52 AM  

This may be nitpicking but it's not a matter of attacking that which challenges their "narrative". It's a matter of them attacking and opposing that which they deem harmful social and economic trends and policy.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 22, 2015 11:53 AM  

It’s such a simple formulation: The individual must never be required to change.


Nope, that's not the Left at all. Individuals absolutely are required to change - IF they individuals don't share leftist politics. Leftists are the people who came up with re-education camps after all.



Blogger Quizzer W June 22, 2015 11:54 AM  

The term Social Justice Warrior comes from the left, the first mention being in a UN paper in 2001, I believe. James May has posted this before, I can't find it atm.

It was SJW behavior that poisoned it. Many, many internet posters merely used it in derision to point it out. Many SJWs now absolutely deny it ever existed, that it came from the left, and deny being one now. They will soon coin a new name, and I predict it will rapidly go the way of 'SJW'.

Words are magic, as we all know. Leftists just need to get the proper name and their actions will be unassailable. Those opposed to their ideology are merely trying to help them find that Name, by testing its resilience!

So do your part! When the new terms appear, mock mercilessly. Sooner or later, former-SJWs, you *will* find the correct magic Name. I will even help you out. Why don't you try calling yourselves 'Totalitarians' next?

Anonymous Case June 22, 2015 11:57 AM  

It had to start somewhere. I'm a bit surprised that it began in the Gamer and SF/F community. But it's important that the backlash against the SJW's continues and grows.

The corruption of the SJW's permeates our entire society and it's important that the effort against them spreads across our entire society.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 22, 2015 11:57 AM  

No ballots were stuffed.

If there was ballot stuffing it would be the side that is offering "Scholarships" for those that can not afford the equivalent value of 4 packs of cigarettes. If illegal aliens, the dead, illiterate , & multiple personalities in the same body are voting it would be on the CHORF side.

If you where a ballot stuffing CHORF my love, the Hugo award winning story of the Hugo Scholarships

Blogger Corvinus June 22, 2015 11:58 AM  

Concern harder

You don’t really mean that, do you?


You've made it abundantly clear you're a concern troll moderate who prefers to shoot at his own side rather than the enemy.

And then you're surprised when you're treated like an SJW interloper.

Really, how thick can you possibly be?

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 11:58 AM  

"Sooner or later, former-SJWs, you *will* find the correct magic Name."

SJG - 'Social Justice Gladiator!'

Anonymous Alexander, #10 June 22, 2015 12:00 PM  

If nominating people for the Hugos is 'tiring', then why has it been done annually since 1953! For six decades, fans have had to nominate... and then nominate the next year... and the next year, and the year after that.

But alas, if the SJWs are convinced that this gets 'old very quickly', then perhaps they can go about retiring the award forever.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 12:02 PM  

80. Cail Corishev
The moniker "SJW", as Jourdan said, is absolutely priceless

Yes. Every once in a while, someone will suggest changing the W to something accurate, but that completely misses the point. They hate being called SJWs, because it shines a light on what scrabbling little nitwits they are. It's perfect.

As for who coined it, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The term "political correctness" was coined by college leftists who thought it perfectly described the speech codes they were instituting. And it did -- too well, to the point that it's now a term of derision that they run from. So I wouldn't be surprised if the first person to say "Social Justice Warrior" was referring to himself unironically, picturing himself with armor and a sword, slaying the dragons of social injustice.
-------------

SJW might have been coined by a leftist/prog/commie/marxian. Anybody know the history? Scalzi calls himself an SJW, so do several others. Aurthur Chu calls himself "not just an SJW... a Social Justice Stormtrooper''' (paraphrased). They (who?, btw) coined "Social Justice" so why not SJW?

"Politically correct" supposedly dates to the Soviet Union under Stalin. PC was enforced by "Political Officers", loyal to the Communist Party, stationed in every Soviet (roughly, village or unit-of-community), academic, media (think Tor), and military unit. Then as now.

Anonymous Minion #0172 June 22, 2015 12:04 PM  

"...there's the occasional good looking Leia or 7of9 running around. :)"

To be hoped, but at the only SF con I attended years and years ago there were three Princess Leias, each who looked like Big Seanan McGuire with cinnamon rolls plastered to the sides of her head.

Couldn't keep solid food down for a week.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 June 22, 2015 12:05 PM  

I second James Dixon. Cons can be fun if you have friends with you. Besides the dealers' room, there may be readings by authors you like (or new ones you want to check out). Panels can be a mixed bag, I tend to drop in and sit at the back and slip out if they get too dull. Check out the topic & the members, some panelists are livelier than others. The con suite is often a good place to drop in and folks tend to sit & chat. It's a low pressure way to meet other fans.
There are usually room parties after hours. I have a few drinking buddies I hang with, as well as circulating around to see who's party is the most interesting.
It's hardly news, but most people are much better in person than online. With exceptions of course.
As always, YMMV.

Anonymous 334 June 22, 2015 12:05 PM  

@93. Imnobody

I hear ya. You're quite right. I was thinking more of the fence sitter who might read his misuse of Jesus' words and wonder if just maybe he might have a legitimate point.

Blogger James Dixon June 22, 2015 12:07 PM  

> The bad way: act like your running for office -in Uzbekistan. Stuffing ballots, demonising opponents, inter alia.

We followed the rules as written.

...alienating readers who might otherwise have had some sympathy for your position, myself included.

BS. You would never have been on our side.

> While you may ‘win’ the Hugos this year, what happens next year? And the year after that?

We'll still be here. They're our awards after all.

> Are the Sad Puppies going to continue fixing the ballot for the foreseeable?

We didn't stuff any ballots. We showed up and voted, as no less than John Scalzi told us to do.

> ...and you’ll be delighted to know that after today I won’t pitch in again.

Promises, promises. We've heard it all before. Now, what is it that SJW's always do again?

Anonymous Menelaus June 22, 2015 12:09 PM  

96. Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 11:51 AM
48. Student in Blue
It's "toe the line", as in lining up nice and orderly with your toes on the line. People using "tow the line" is starting to become a pet peeve.
------------------

Why reign in poor usage and affect change by honing in on that one?


Two usages:

1. "Toe the line"
Meaning: Maintain uniform discipline, e.g., VFM's should toe the line
From: Travis at the Alamo

2. "Tow the line"
Meaning: Promote dogma or spread propaganda, e.g., Tor employees tow the line for CHORFs
From: Bargemen sometimes had to disembark to the river banks with ropes and manually tow the barge

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 12:11 PM  

99. Quizzer W
The term Social Justice Warrior comes from the left, the first mention being in a UN paper in 2001, I believe. James May has posted this before, I can't find it atm.

Thank you, Quizzer W.


100. Case June 22,
It had to start somewhere. I'm a bit surprised that it began in the Gamer and SF/F community.
--------------

From another side, there is a certain, multifaceted beauty and symmetry about GG/SF as ground zero.

Blogger James Dixon June 22, 2015 12:14 PM  

> To be hoped, but...

It's been almost 30 years since my last con, so it's possible things have changed. At that time there were always some good lookers dressed up in appropriate costumes.

Anonymous Scintan June 22, 2015 12:21 PM  

Example of the left using "Social Justice Warrior":

Here's one from 2011

Blogger bob k. mando June 22, 2015 12:24 PM  

92. Bohm June 22, 2015 11:33 AM
You don’t really mean that, do you?


why wouldn't we? you haven't succeeded in making us care about your badfeels yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

Anonymous Scintan June 22, 2015 12:25 PM  

Example of the left using "Social Justice Warrior"

Here's one from 2009, on Twitter

Blogger Karl June 22, 2015 12:25 PM  

They know that the successful adoption and utilization of their own methods will lead to the freedom-loving right learning a very important lesson that will help bring about its resurgence at SJW expense.

Nassim NicholنTaleb ‏@nntaleb Jun 19
UCL, who fired Tim Hunt for his joke, has a campus in Qatar. The story is getting more interesting by the minute. Boycott UCL.

Nassim NicholنTaleb ‏@nntaleb Jun 18
UK univ take Saudi money (women can't drive) but fire a scientist for locker room joke. Cowardice or prostitution? http://on.ft.com/SnRZlf


Nassim NicholنTaleb ‏@nntaleb Jun 17
UK "bon pensants" moblynch scientist for idiotic remarks & try to be "understanding" with ISIS sympathisers who enslave women. Hypocrites!

Anonymous patrick kelly June 22, 2015 12:27 PM  

@napari: "All the best from a wannabe fly on the wall that has learned much from all contributors on the Vox blog."

All you naysayers complaining the ilk and other readers of this blog don't do or accomplish anything should read this and thoughtfully re-consider....

None of you know me, but I'm not quick to join band-wagons or raise banners, I make great efforts *not* to engage in cults of personality, but this blog has kept my interest for years now......I rarely recommend it to anyone.......I learned the hard way....most won't agree, most are not capably of understanding or willing to put the effort in to do so...........I'm quicker to link to Alpha Game as it applies directly to a more specific purpose, helping men find their way back to masculinity in a feminized culture.......young men licking their wound have a period of humility when they are more likely to pay attention and try to learn and improve themselves and the world around them........


Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 12:33 PM  

113. bob k. mando
you haven't succeeded in making us care about your badfeels yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY
------------------------

I was cheesed out at first, then couldn't stop laughing.
"We Don't Care" has a theme song.

Blogger James Sullivan June 22, 2015 12:35 PM  

Minion 0172,

"To be hoped, but at the only SF con I attended years and years ago there were three Princess Leias, each who looked like Big Seanan McGuire with cinnamon rolls plastered to the sides of her head."

Are you sure it was a Leia costume and not just a convenient place to hold her snack? That icing makes the hands all sticky, but if you just stick them to the sides of your head...

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 12:43 PM  

See, and there you are caught lying AGAIN. There are multiple posts almost every day that have nothing to do with either

Sorry, didn't read those posts. Let's just say the SP/SWJ thing has been your primary concern of late, to the detriment of other subjects - understandable given your involvement but not so interesting for me.

BS. You would never have been on our side.

On reflection, that’s probably true. It’s also true I don’t read much SF these days coz it all seems a bit blaah, rightly or wrongly; too much fantasy romancing - which I believe is a bone of contention for VD, too. Admittedly, I’m out of touch with the genre.

We'll still be here. They're our awards after all.

That’s half true. The Hugos, as I understand it, also belong to the evil SWJs. My point is that the tactics used this year won’t be as effected next year for the obvious reason that your ‘enemies’ will probably respond in kind. And yes, I know that this year’s hoopla is a supposed ‘response in kind’ in itself. In any case, something is going to happen.

We didn't stuff any ballots.

Of course I know ballots weren’t stuffed - my blasé terminology was meant as a disparagement, not as an accurate description of events.

We've heard it all before.

Rest assured.

you haven't succeeded in making us care about your badfeels yet.

Drat.



btw, I’m now wearing my above-it-all hat again and I’ve noticed that ‘SWJ’ appears to be a term of abuse, connoting mendacious, self-aggrandising, morally repugnant individuals who collectively present an existential threat to western civilisation. Is that fair? Or am I over-dramatising?

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2015 12:52 PM  

"‘SWJ’ appears to be a term of abuse, connoting mendacious, self-aggrandising, morally repugnant individuals who collectively present an existential threat to western civilisation.'

Actually its SJW.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 22, 2015 12:54 PM  

btw, I’m now wearing my above-it-all hat again and I’ve noticed that...

Alert! Alert!

Gamma Male metastasization is at critical mass!!

All males present are in danger of growing their own ovaries!

We are at peak Scalzi! REPEAT WE ARE AT PEAK SCALZI!!!

Blogger bob k. mando June 22, 2015 12:55 PM  

119. Bohm June 22, 2015 12:43 PM
btw, I’m now wearing my above-it-all hat again and I’ve noticed that ‘SWJ’


you're SO far above-it-all that you can't even get the acronym right.

Blogger bob k. mando June 22, 2015 12:57 PM  

119. Bohm June 22, 2015 12:43 PM
Sorry, didn't read those posts.



see?

Bohm admits that the 'fixation problem' is purely a figment of his imagination.

but it's a figment that is completely Vox's fault.

Blogger HalibetLector June 22, 2015 12:58 PM  

@Bohm: here's a shovel. Keep digging. *gets more popcorn*

We've been asking for a higher quality troll here for a while. Is it possible we have one, at long last?

Blogger VD June 22, 2015 1:00 PM  

Sorry, didn't read those posts. Let's just say the SP/SWJ thing has been your primary concern of late, to the detriment of other subjects - understandable given your involvement but not so interesting for me.

The detriment of other subjects you can't bother to read anyhow? Concern harder.

You don't seem to understand that this blog is an expression of my interests, not yours. You can expect daily SJW-related posts here through August at the very least.

Blogger Cee June 22, 2015 1:07 PM  

Why reign in poor usage and affect change by honing in on that one?
Do you want to hurt me? Because that hurt. Wow just wow.

Blogger James Dixon June 22, 2015 1:08 PM  

> That’s half true. The Hugos, as I understand it, also belong to the evil SWJs.

That they do. And as long as the voting is fair and above board, there should be no problems. One side will outvote the other. So, tell me, why does one of the sides want to change the rules all of a sudden?

> Of course I know ballots weren’t stuffed - my blasé terminology was meant as a disparagement, not as an accurate description of events.

Or, to put it in simpler terms, you were lying for effect. I must admit, you're one of the few that's been willing to admit it.

Blogger Danby June 22, 2015 1:10 PM  

@Bohm,
you mince pretty well, but I'm just not feeling the "I'm so pretty vibe." I think it conflicts with the above-it-all sneer.
2.3 out of 5
sorry, but you're going to have to step up a bit if you want to impress the judges. This isn't reddit.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 22, 2015 1:23 PM  

119: " Let's just say the SP/SWJ thing has been your primary concern of late, to the detriment of other subjects - understandable given your involvement but not so interesting for me. "

Yet here you are, commenting on it.

Just when I'm getting annoyed and bored with dem' wascally' wabbits, a new concerned commenter appears, and I'm lmao again.....

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 22, 2015 1:43 PM  

126. Cee
Why reign in poor usage and affect change by honing in on that one? -FB
Do you want to hurt me? Because that hurt. Wow just wow.
---------------

Aww, I sorr... sorr... ok I'm not. Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah....

Anonymous Bohm June 22, 2015 2:03 PM  

The detriment of other subjects you can't bother to read anyhow?

Exactly.

It is a fact that I visit less often these days because Puppy posts, rightly or wrongly. This is not a reflection on the focus or breadth of your interests -I would probably have taken exception to those other posts in any case.

You keep urging me to concern harder. Your encouragement is heartening. However, I have already said my concern begins and ends today.

So, tell me, why does one of the sides want to change the rules all of a sudden?

I’m presuming you mean the Hugo people about the rules for nomination. I think you can probably hazard a guess on that yourself.

to put it in simpler terms, you were lying for effect.

Well, originally I was compared Puppy tactics to Uzbekistan elections for the effect, mainly because I can’t spell Tadzickistan. From there it was convenient shorthand.

you mince pretty well, but I'm just not feeling the "I'm so pretty vibe.”

You obviously have an eye for such things. But 2.3 is pure flattery I think.


Gentleman, that’s me for the day. I thank all for your kind attentions. Pardon me if any query remains unresolved. I trust you will take my observations in good faith, cogitate on them at length and eventually renounce the error of your ways.

Anonymous Soga June 22, 2015 2:12 PM  

So Bohm, being above it all, when are you going to link to a post you made over at Whatever or some other space belonging to Tor Books authors criticizing the SJWs' approach to the nomination process that they had been using for decades?

We would like a sign of your good faith, so to demonstrate to us and lurking audiences that you indeed have reasonable concerns to cognate upon, as it were.

Blogger Joel #0164 June 22, 2015 3:16 PM  

Gentleman, that’s me for the day. I thank all for your kind attentions. Pardon me if any query remains unresolved. I trust you will take my observations in good faith, cogitate on them at length and eventually renounce the error of your ways.

You forgot to tip your fedora.

Blogger luagha June 22, 2015 3:24 PM  

Bohm's admission that he stopped reading SF&F because it got boring is hilarious.

He has to keep attacking because he's an SJW and has to lie and double-down, even in the middle of admitting the basic point underlying all of this.

Bohm; go read Cixin Liu's THE THREE BODY PROBLEM. It's different and it's great and lots of people are liking the hell out of it, not just Puppies.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) June 22, 2015 3:30 PM  

You forgot to tip your fedora.

And compliment the "M'ladies".

Blogger James Dixon June 22, 2015 5:44 PM  

> I trust you will take my observations in good faith

We'll take them in the same spirit they were offered and give them all the consideration they deserve.

Blogger Russell (106) June 22, 2015 6:14 PM  

My take away is that Bohm is Owen T. trying to dial it down and take a different tack.

He'll be back. Different name, but he'll back with the same basic approach.

Anonymous Sevron June 22, 2015 6:17 PM  

Even after all this time, I still really can't fathom what the Bohms of the world get out of these interactions. There's not one person who read his drivel that was remotely impressed with it, yet he acts like he just gave an Oscar-worthy performance. I suppose the warren will pat him on the back and say "attaperson!", but some part of him will know it's a lie and the gamma hole in his soul will grow wider. Why love this way?

Blogger byronfrombyron June 22, 2015 6:22 PM  

Get it right, Joel. Concern trolls wear trilbys.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 22, 2015 6:32 PM  

@Bohm
You take the name of one of the Frankfurt school and expect to be taken seriously on this planet? You know your cultural marxist shit only works through subterfuge, when your lies are hidden. You have no power here!

Anonymous Harsh June 22, 2015 7:11 PM  

Gentleman, that’s me for the day. I thank all for your kind attentions. Pardon me if any query remains unresolved. I trust you will take my observations in good faith, cogitate on them at length and eventually renounce the error of your ways.

Shut up, Owen.

Blogger automatthew June 22, 2015 10:55 PM  

My God. It's full of fedoras.

Blogger John Wright June 23, 2015 12:50 AM  

"For all its Clausewitzian grandeur, it seems to me that the bad way has one major strategic flaw. While you may ‘win’ the Hugos this year, what happens next year? And the year after that? Are the Sad Puppies going to continue fixing the ballot for the foreseeable? That stuff can get very old, very quickly."

I am a humble man, or try to be, but even my humility will not allow me to claim, without bursting into laughter, that the weakest story of mine for this year was not better crafted, better written, and more brilliant than my competitors.

What were the 'winning' short fiction from last year?

I dimly recall was a story about a dank homosexual Thai dinosaur genderless AI being splashed by water from nowhere who hated wereseal stories while his world was flipped upside down. Or something.

The ballots were voted and counted fair and square. I simply write better stories than the other candidates this year, and a wider range of readers voted.

So your claim is an obnoxious and deliberate and shameless lie, because if you creatures spoke the truth, it would burn your tongues to ash like molten gold.

Our strategy is continue to call people like you, who spill out lies, more lies, and lies atop lies, by the charming name of liars.

And then we will ignore you, roll over you, laugh and go on our merry we.

Because we don't care.

Your false world, false beliefs, false warren-signals, false ideas and false attempts to control, shame, warp, twist, move goal posts, isolate, infuriate, change the subject, and assassinate characters is something we reject without regret.

We don't care about your shallow complaints, your pretend outrage and your make believe wounded feelings. We don't care if liars tell lies and drug-addled malcontents pretend to sneer.

We do not care if bigots, neurotics, and freaks with sexual and psychological problems who favor euthanasia and killing babies disapprove of Christian moral codes, common decency, common sense.

We certainly do not care if orcs with no taste do not like wholesome and well written stories. You may eat the crap you prefer to solid food when it comes to SFF. We don't care because we do not need to brush your teeth after nor mop up your vomit.

Blogger automatthew June 23, 2015 1:20 AM  

I have it on solid authority that Orcs prefer manflesh, but will eat their own when necessary.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 23, 2015 8:10 AM  

Even after all this time, I still really can't fathom what the Bohms of the world get out of these interactions.

I hate to say it but I think its sexual. I think they masturbate themselves to climax every time someone responds to one of their mendacious posts.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 23, 2015 8:24 AM  

I think they masturbate themselves to climax every time someone responds to one of their mendacious posts.

I've had the same suspicion. True or not, if you assume it's true, it becomes much easier to avoid responding to them.

Blogger James Dixon June 23, 2015 9:31 PM  

Re: Post 144.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the incomparable Mr. Wright at work.

Blogger SciVo June 24, 2015 5:22 AM  

@SJW: This may be nitpicking but it's not a matter of attacking that which challenges their "narrative". It's a matter of them attacking and opposing that which they deem harmful social and economic trends and policy.

They're authoritarians. It is not a coincidence that their means is always more government and less freedom; their means is their ends, and whatever they "deem harmful" is just a pretext.

Blogger SciVo June 24, 2015 12:03 PM  

@ Quizzer W: It was SJW behavior that poisoned it. Many, many internet posters merely used it in derision to point it out. Many SJWs now absolutely deny it ever existed, that it came from the left, and deny being one now. They will soon coin a new name, and I predict it will rapidly go the way of 'SJW'.

Ah yes, the old euphemism treadmill.

Blogger SciVo June 24, 2015 12:12 PM  

@Case: I'm a bit surprised that it began in the Gamer and SF/F community.

It is entirely postdictable, or explicable in retrospect. Escapism is the last refuge of those that just want to be left alone; so when our enemies attacked that, leaving us nowhere else to go but through them, that's where we went. And we endeavor to make it so that they never bother us again, whatever that takes.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 24, 2015 12:15 PM  

That's the thing about SJWism, aka cultural Marxism, aka political correctness, aka communism....

It requires affirmative participation. You will not be left alone. You must not only tolerate, you must applaud and celebrate.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 24, 2015 12:15 PM  

Or else.

Blogger SciVo June 24, 2015 3:27 PM  

Or as Erick Erickson famously said, you will be made to care.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 24, 2015 4:10 PM  

Thus the irresistible weapon of the vile faceless minions and their leaders:

We don't care.

Our message to the pig-SJW-scum: Try to make us..

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