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Thursday, June 04, 2015

He REALLY likes rape

George Rape Rape Martin explains that books without rape are "boring and "fundamentally dishonest":
Martin, 66, said that the characters in his novels using rape to get their way is legitimate because it reflects European history, which inspired his own fantasy novels.

Speaking to Entertainment Weekly, Martin said: 'I’m writing about war, which is what almost all epic fantasy is about. 'But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that.

'Rape, unfortunately, is still a part of war today. It’s not a strong testament to the human race, but I don’t think we should pretend it doesn't exist. I want to portray struggle. Drama comes out of conflict. If you portray a utopia, then you probably wrote a pretty boring book.'
Sure, but one has to question his devotion to historical realism when there is one rape every twenty-four pages, while children apparently spring into existence without married couples ever having sex.

Labels:

133 Comments:

Blogger Harsh June 04, 2015 3:05 PM  

Wouldn't it be fun if George had a moment of clarity and then came over to the dark side?

Anonymous tiredofitall June 04, 2015 3:10 PM  

"I want to portray struggle." - George Rape Rape Martin

I imagine he's never had sex where there wasn't some kind of struggle...mostly the poor women trying to get out from underneath his massive gut.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami June 04, 2015 3:11 PM  

"using rape to get their way is legitimate because it reflects European history"

"If I denounce Whites, the SJWs will support me," pined Martin.

Anonymous Alexander June 04, 2015 3:16 PM  

The irony of course is that even the Vikings recognized rape as being a crime against the woman herself, not just a crime against her husband.

I'm curious how many non-European societies today can claim that level of progressive thinking.

Anonymous Kel-Tec PF9 June 04, 2015 3:17 PM  

Martin's sex scenes aren't supposed to be tittilating, they are supposed to be awkward (think Sam's "fat pink mast") to horrific (all the rape), because realism. The implications for the guy's sex life is obvious.

That's without mentioning Meathouse Man... If we're sad puppies, he's a sick puppy!

Blogger Corvinus June 04, 2015 3:18 PM  

It certainly reflects Muslim history, at least.

Blogger Joshua_D June 04, 2015 3:18 PM  

"George Rape Rape Martin"

Now that's funny.

Blogger Rabbi B June 04, 2015 3:19 PM  

"'I’m writing about war, which is what almost all epic fantasy is about."

So was Tolkien, CS Lewis, and countless others. Sometimes less is more.

I thought there were a few points worth mentioning here:

"It’s just a shame that “adult,” in our culture, always means “pornographic.” In a more intellectual society, that wouldn’t be the case. Purchasing an “adult” pay-per-view movie in your hotel room would mean you ordered “A Man For All Seasons” or something, not some XXX pornfest. If things made sense, “adult” would signal that a story is substantive, rich, deep, complex, nuanced, and mentally engaging. Instead, in our Idiocracy, it just signifies that someone’s genitals are prominently featured. That said, I do think an actual adult story — as opposed to an “adult” story — can be appropriately dark, and even, at times, graphic."

"That’s the other problem with the proliferation of these depressing, amoral, sex-crazed shows and movies: they’re just lazy. Dumb. Contrived . . . It’s easy to tell a story where the characters are horrible and horrible things happen and people have sex and then everyone dies. It’s cheap. It’s juvenile. Yes, horrible things are a part of life, but so are redemption and goodness. A more enthralling, exciting, fascinating part, in fact. TV shows and movies offer a relentlessly nihilistic view of the world because the people producing them lack the intelligence to go deeper, say something profound, and make virtue interesting. So they compensate by populating their scripts with sociopaths and deviants, hoping we’ll confuse “grim and filthy” with “bold and smart.”"

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/christians-now-is-probably-a-good-time-to-stop-watching-game-of-thrones/

Blogger kh123 June 04, 2015 3:20 PM  

The Raper Theory of Narrative Value.

Anonymous NateM June 04, 2015 3:24 PM  

"The implications for the guy's sex life is obvious. "

Guys like GRRM always think they are too smart to be as transparent as they are

Blogger AmyJ June 04, 2015 3:29 PM  

It's his gleefully graphic and repetitious depictions of rape that disgust people. Better authors have been able to convey the horror of rape without even having to refer to the act itself.

Tolkien's brief line about what happened to Elrond's wife at the hands of orcs, comes to mind. You know bad things happened; there was no need to spell it out or describe in detail what was done to her.

Anonymous j43094 June 04, 2015 3:35 PM  

So, to be clear, we're only pretending to be insufferable SJWs who think Martin should censor his creative vision to mollify the fat feminists who are boycotting him after the Sansa/Ramsay sex-scene, right?

Because, like him or not, the guy is right about the importance of honesty in fiction. ASoIaF is a big as it is because he doesn't pull his punches. I hope none of you are actually suggesting that there's too much rape/mutilation/violence in his books.

Blogger Rabbi B June 04, 2015 3:40 PM  

"I hope none of you are actually suggesting that there's too much rape/mutilation/violence in his books."

Unless it manages to take all of the "imaginative" out of imaginative literature.

I second AmyJ's point.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 04, 2015 3:40 PM  

"using rape to get their way is legitimate because it reflects European history"

Just wait, my next book with have rapes almost as often as modern day Congo.-GRRM.

"The implications for the guy's sex life is obvious. "

Nate said that GRRM likes Doritos more than I like penis, but I doubt he could sell any books based on Doritos. He is obviously a buysexual, like the dwarf that pays for sex.

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 3:43 PM  

LIke GRRM I always expect gritty realism with my medieval fantasy - that's why I expect plenty of rape, Dragons, and magical witches.

Blogger Harsh June 04, 2015 3:44 PM  

LIke GRRM I always expect gritty realism with my medieval fantasy - that's why I expect plenty of rape, Dragons, and magical witches.

You forgot rape.

OpenID genericviews June 04, 2015 3:45 PM  

Tolkien's brief line about what happened to Elrond's wife at the hands of orcs...

Today that would be racist. Would have to rewrite it as East German Hobbits with Nazi sympathies.

Blogger Chiva June 04, 2015 3:45 PM  

@j43094.

I don't give a crap what Mr Martin has put into his books. What I do find funny is his statement that a book that does not portray rape realistically is 'dishonest'.

Blogger Jourdan June 04, 2015 3:45 PM  

George Rape-Rape Martin, on Game of Thrones:

Martin, 66, said that the characters in his novels using rape to get their way is legitimate because it reflects European history

Snoop Dogg, on Game of Thrones:

I watch it for historic reasons, to try to understand what this world was based on before I got here. I like to know how we got from there, to here, and the similarities between then and now.

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 3:50 PM  

And of course GRRM is right about rape and the need for drama. Where would Tolstoy, Shakespeare, and Hemingway be without the endless dramatic rape scenes? And of course, who can forget the famous rape of Orson Welles in Citizen Kane?

Anonymous j43094 June 04, 2015 3:50 PM  

Rabbi B

>I second AmyJ's point.

About how GRRM should aspire to write more like Tolkien? Tolkien was a great linguist and world builder, but he's not famous for his gripping storytelling ability. Anyone here who actually thinks they can give writing advice to Martin should start their own series of books; I'm sure fame and fortune await you.

I think a lot of you are actually serious about this. How very bizarre. If GRRM hadn't come out on the side of the anti-puppies, would you still be raking his personal character over the coals because he includes rape scenes in his books?

A lot of these comments are indistinguishable from the ones you'd find at feministing or jezebel: Martin's books have rape scenes, so he's a fat creepy loser who can't get laid. I'd have sworn these were parodies, but, apparently not.

I guess there's some truth to what they say about one's bitterest enemies being those who are most like them but for some minor, ideological detail.

Blogger Dexter June 04, 2015 3:51 PM  

Tolkien's brief line about what happened to Elrond's wife at the hands of orcs.

Tolkien didn't want to face the obvious truth - the gritty realism - that she was a mudshark who liked the dark-skinned alpha badboy Uruk Hai.

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 3:52 PM  

"You forgot rape."

You're right. I forgot to write "rape rape" as the brilliant intellectual Whoopi Goldberg phrased it. Thanks.

OpenID genericviews June 04, 2015 3:54 PM  

Martin said: 'I’m writing about war...

Wait. He is still writing? Talk about fundimentally dishonest.

Blogger Dexter June 04, 2015 3:56 PM  

Martin's books have rape scenes, so he's a fat creepy loser who can't get laid.

He's a fat creepy loser who also writes books with rape scenes.

Do you not have eyes?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/04/05/2957780800000578-0-image-m-22_1433392286132.jpg

Looking at this photo, if he doesn't play for the Marion Zimmer Bradley / Walter Breen team, I'll be veeeeeeery surprised.

OpenID genericviews June 04, 2015 3:56 PM  

You're right. I forgot to write "rape rape" as the brilliant intellectual Whoopi Goldberg phrased it. Thanks.

Wrong reference.
"you said rape twice"
"I like rape"

OpenID malcolmthecynic June 04, 2015 3:57 PM  

Tolkien was a great linguist and world builder, but he's not famous for his gripping storytelling ability.

Bwahahaha, this is such an aggressively stupid comment it's actually pretty funny.

Anyone here who actually thinks they can give writing advice to Martin should start their own series of books; I'm sure fame and fortune await you.

This assumes that skill at criticism and skill at actual fictional writing are the same thing. They're not - a great many editors, some of whom are excellent, don't write at all. And of the ones who do write they are undoubtedly worse than some of their best authors - and yet even great authors suffer when somebody doesn't properly edit their work.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 04, 2015 4:00 PM  

"12. j43094 June 04, 2015 3:35 PM
So, to be clear, we're only pretending to be insufferable SJWs who think Martin should censor his creative vision to mollify the fat feminists who are boycotting him after the Sansa/Ramsay sex-scene, right?

Because, like him or not, the guy is right about the importance of honesty in fiction. ASoIaF is a big as it is because he doesn't pull his punches. I hope none of you are actually suggesting that there's too much rape/mutilation/violence in his books."




Sorry, that ship has sailed, the tool is out of the toolbox, chickens flew the coop, horses out of the barn. There will be no "neener neener that's not fair."

Why.

Because we don't care.

So take off your concern troll cosplay costume and go home.

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 4:00 PM  

I always find it amusing that you can never go on any right-of-center message board and criticize any bat shit crazy left-wing author/film producer/ artist without some right-wing fanboy showing up to defend them. Some even pull the "how many books/movies/drama have you done?" - yep, I guess we can't criticize anyone unless we can do it better. Who am I to criticize a comic genius like Pauly Shore?

Blogger Rabbi B June 04, 2015 4:00 PM  

"About how GRRM should aspire to write more like Tolkien?"

Methinks you may have missed my point (and AmyJ's).

"Anyone here who actually thinks they can give writing advice to Martin should start their own series of books; I'm sure fame and fortune await you."

Fame and fortune await me, because I comment here and you're just jealous.

Blogger Chiva June 04, 2015 4:01 PM  

If GRRM hadn't come out on the side of the anti-puppies, would you still be raking his personal character over the coals because he includes rape scenes in his books?

You must not have been here very long. He has been mocked here for a while.

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 4:02 PM  

GRRM and the TV show are popular right now. 50 years from now, I doubt people will care about GRRM. But people will still be caring about Tolkien.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 04, 2015 4:02 PM  

Oh puh-lease, he's throwing in gratuitous rape to move sales and that is all he's doing.

Although now that Little-Wounded-Bird Sansa has been defiled and the SJWs have discovered they disapprove of artistic rape. It's all about the evils of => European<= history.

Martin really isn't being all that brave or accurate. Margaret Tudor gave birth to Henry VII at the age of freaking 12. Giving birth nearly killed her, Her husband was dead before her son was born yet she remained deeply devoted to the memory of Edmund Tudor until her death at age 66.

Try putting that in a modern fantasy book.

Oh that's right. He didn't.

And you know, I don't remember incest being that big a feature of European royal history and I'm quite certain I would have woken up for that portion of the class.

Now that I think about it. One of the War of Roses kicked off largely because one woman wouldn't let herself be raped. Well I don't know that Edward IV tried to rape Elizabeth Woodville but he wasn't used to taking 'no' for an answer or 'stop' for an order but in her case he did.

But as Vox pointed out, there is almost no room for normal marital relations in Westeros.

Anonymous GM June 04, 2015 4:02 PM  

"'Rape, unfortunately, is still a part of war today" True.

"while children apparently spring into existence without married couples ever having sex"

Ok...But what does married couples making babies have to do with war.

You are stuck in a category error.

OpenID malcolmthecynic June 04, 2015 4:02 PM  

Martin's comments about being honest in fiction are technically correct; the problem is that Martin isn't taking his own advice. His aggressive nihilism and "rape every 24 pages approach" is no more realistic than "Rainbowland" from "The Campaign".

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 04, 2015 4:05 PM  

Speaking about liking rape why is the media ignoring the CAIR jihadist arrested for trying to hook up with a 12yo, who also used to run a youth camp while focusing on the Serf Sufficient Druggars? They could at least give it as much attention as the new Jenner-based reality series, Look at me, I’m a Tranny.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/shocker-muslim-group-cair-official-is-a-pedophile-caught-red-handed/
http://soopermexican.com/2015/06/03/sickening-cair-official-arrested-for-seeking-child-sex-was-in-charge-of-children-at-muslim-youth-camp/

Anonymous BGS June 04, 2015 4:05 PM  

self sufficient

Blogger VD June 04, 2015 4:06 PM  

Anyone here who actually thinks they can give writing advice to Martin should start their own series of books; I'm sure fame and fortune await you.

I did. It does.

Blogger AmyJ June 04, 2015 4:07 PM  

@Rabbi B

I was about to write a few paragraphs to try to explain my point further, but I see you've already dealt with it in a more appropriate fashion. Thanks!

Blogger rcocean June 04, 2015 4:08 PM  

To defend GRRM a little. Its odd that people seem to be cool with endless GoT torture porn, decapitations, burnings, mass murder, and 100 different forms of painful death - but rape is somehow beyond the pale.

OpenID malcolmthecynic June 04, 2015 4:10 PM  

Where would Tolstoy, Shakespeare, and Hemingway be without the endless dramatic rape scenes? And of course, who can forget the famous rape of Orson Welles in Citizen Kane?

This is where some writing advice forums make me shake my head. You'll always find writers who ask some variation of "How often would X masturbate in this situation?"

I'm not only being entirely serious, if you wanted me to I could show you the forums.

To which I respond that I have never, once, read a book or story that was improved by including masturbation.

Blogger thule222 June 04, 2015 4:11 PM  

It's not censorship to note that there's a whole lot of rape here. Sam and Gilly's encounter seemed sad and joyless to me. It seemed like she was paying a debt, or sealing a deal.

Blogger Dexter June 04, 2015 4:14 PM  

To defend GRRM a little. Its odd that people seem to be cool with endless GoT torture porn, decapitations, burnings, mass murder, and 100 different forms of painful death - but rape is somehow beyond the pale.

That is not a defense of GRRM.

That is an indictment of everybody else.

OpenID jeffro June 04, 2015 4:15 PM  

I couldn't finish the first Game of Thrones novel.

I had to call in sick when I got about half way through Throne of Bones because I *had* to finish the darn thing.

In general, I far prefer reading works from before 1970 to the stuff that is on the book store shelves right now. To me there is no comparison.

Anonymous Steve June 04, 2015 4:17 PM  

Rcocean - Who am I to criticize a comic genius like Pauly Shore?

G R R Martin's original screenplay for "Bio-Dome" had a lot more rape scenes.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 04, 2015 4:22 PM  

Because, like him or not, the guy is right about the importance of honesty in fiction.

Unlike most SJWs, GRRM is smart enough to sweeten his lies with truths. Of course honesty is important in fiction, but he's being (typically) dishonest by suggesting that European civilization was one long story of rape.

Sure, rape happened, but so did cathedrals, Michelangelo's David, and the victory at Lepanto. Where are those things in Westeros? When anything positive is introduced, you can bet it's there for someone to crap on it.

It's no more honest to show only the bad side than to show only the good. I was going to say that ASoIaF is a color negative of those 1950s Lone Ranger shows, except that's not true: despite being clean and always having a happy ending, those did portray greed, jealousy, war, and other negatives. Yet those are laughed off as childishly unrealistic, while Martin is called honest and courageous for his historical revisionism and nihilism.

And you're wrong again: we were criticizing his series well before he stuck his foot in his mouth about the Puppies.

Anonymous JI June 04, 2015 4:25 PM  

I'm so happy GRR did not write The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I hate to imagine the inter-racial relationships.

Blogger jay c June 04, 2015 4:26 PM  

OT: I forgot to mention it before, but I like the numbered comments.

Anonymous Gecko June 04, 2015 4:29 PM  

Tolkien was a great linguist and world builder, but he's not famous for his gripping storytelling ability.

What are the chances the last two books will contain anything close to this unforgettable moment?

Blackness and stench and crushing pain came upon Pippin, and his mind fell away into a great darkness.
'So it ends as I guessed it would,' his thought said, even as it fluttered away; and it laughed a little within him ere it fled, almost gay it seemed to be casting off at last all doubt and care and fear. And then even as it winged away into forgetfulness it heard voices, and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above:
'The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming!'

Blogger Corvinus June 04, 2015 4:35 PM  

Tolkien's brief line about what happened to Elrond's wife at the hands of orcs, comes to mind. You know bad things happened; there was no need to spell it out or describe in detail what was done to her.

Exactly. It was obvious what happened to Celebrian, but it would be rather distasteful to go into gory detail about it. Gruesome sexual scenes are pure pornography, which would destroy the story as a work of art.

Blogger Corvinus June 04, 2015 4:37 PM  

(That's probably why, while I liked Tom Kratman's Caliphate, I won't ever read it again.)

Anonymous Gecko June 04, 2015 4:40 PM  

what does married couples making babies have to do with war.

What do children springing into existence have to do with war? It's still an important part of the plot.

That is an indictment of everybody else.

The same goes for the appeal to popularity.

Anonymous Trimegistus June 04, 2015 4:43 PM  

Apparently GRRM is as rigorous in his research as the team that designed the game F.A.T.A.L.

Heck, maybe he just read the rulebook and used that as his source.

Blogger beerme #0183 June 04, 2015 4:45 PM  

I couldn't finish the first Game of Thrones novel.
Same here. When you come to the realization that it isn't an evil character that you wish to see vanquished, but instead want to see the entire perverted world of Westeros destroyed that you know it is time to stop reading a book. I've always imagines GRRM as a fat pig that is happily wallows in the most vile shit out of human history.

Anonymous NateM June 04, 2015 4:47 PM  

Ok...But what does married couples making babies have to do with war.

You are stuck in a category error.


And the point whizzes by untouched

Anonymous DT June 04, 2015 4:48 PM  

There's a meme image, often posted to a board that shall not be mentioned, with a clock and a character saying "Look at the time."

Every time slot on the clock face says Rape.

I never imagined George Rapey Rape Martin dabbled in meme pics on the side.

Anonymous dh June 04, 2015 4:50 PM  

entire perverted world of Westeros destroyed that you know

It's been a long time science I read some of the original GOT source material, but my feeling was the same way. Why would I care about this tiny petty Westeros, when there are much more interesting people to investigate.

And then of course, the author went ahead and decided the same thing. Which was nice to be vindicated, but didn't help move the story along all that much.

Anonymous Cheddarman, vile faceless minion 0187 June 04, 2015 4:50 PM  

Why does George R.R. Martin hate women?

Anonymous Cheddarman, vile faceless minion 0187 June 04, 2015 4:53 PM  

George R.R. Martin writes rape fiction.
George R.R. Martin is a literary rapist.

Anonymous Huckleberry (#87) -- est. 1977 June 04, 2015 4:55 PM  

Why does George R.R. Martin hate women?

On the contrary.
George Rape Rape Martin loves women.
Especially when they don't want him to.

Blogger Danby June 04, 2015 4:58 PM  

Why does George R.R. Martin hate women?

Because they don't desire him.

Anonymous tiredofitall June 04, 2015 5:00 PM  

"And of course, who can forget the famous rape of Orson Welles in Citizen Kane?" - rcocean

That must be on the bonus features of the Criterion collection. Because I have no memories of Charles Foster Kane being bent over like a first day inmate.

"And you know, I don't remember incest being that big a feature of European royal history and I'm quite certain I would have woken up for that portion of the class." - Cataline Sergius

Look up the Habsburgs or any other royal family, they fucked each other like gangbusters back in the day.

Anonymous Gecko June 04, 2015 5:09 PM  

Why does George R.R. Martin hate women?

Because they don't desire him.


So the series is actually omega fantasy fulfillment. Huh.

Blogger CarpeOro June 04, 2015 5:12 PM  

j43094 - if you believe that rape is the fundamental building block of gripping fiction... you really need to expand your horizons past the internet.

"Look up the Habsburgs or any other royal family, they fucked each other like gangbusters back in the day."

Sorry tired, even though there aren't enough forks in their family trees, technically cousins and second cousins aren't incest.

Anonymous yerpistan June 04, 2015 5:13 PM  

Vox, I agree with you on almost everything including this but I selfishly ask you to leave him alone, I want those books finished!

Blogger David-093 June 04, 2015 5:18 PM  

"When you come to the realization that it isn't an evil character that you wish to see vanquished, but instead want to see the entire perverted world of Westeros destroyed that you know it is time to stop reading a book. "

I said it on an earlier thread: the whole series can be redeemed if the ice zombies come down from the north and just slaughter everyone on the wretched continent.

Blogger luagha June 04, 2015 5:18 PM  

Minds me of the whole, "The Israeli Army is racist, because they don't rape the Arab the women the way they're supposed to after they win!" deal that was all the rage a while ago.

I wonder what that means for evolutionary strategies. Maybe GRRM is actually trolling us all and setting up for a grand reveal about how all this rape is NECESSARY for the losers in these political struggles to make sure that their genes still propagate.

Blogger David-093 June 04, 2015 5:20 PM  

"Its odd that people seem to be cool with endless GoT torture porn, decapitations, burnings, mass murder, and 100 different forms of painful death - but rape is somehow beyond the pale."

The SJWs fixated on Sansa rape in the tv show, then attacked Martin for it. Everyone else has been criticizing him for wallowing in nihilism and gratuitous, over-the-top violence for years now. Are you surprised that the SJWs are morally depraved hypocritical assholes? I'm not.

Blogger CarpeOro June 04, 2015 5:21 PM  

"Sure, rape happened, but so did cathedrals, Michelangelo's David, and the victory at Lepanto. Where are those things in Westeros?"

Same place they are in this world - things of a past when God was honored and art had a positive effect on the soul instead of the darkening and pestilence of the soul that most modern art has become. Got to hand it to GRRM, he depicts a world devoid of God pretty well. Petty, vile, and with little to lift the spirit because that which does is reviled and destroyed as swiftly as possible lest people recall they were made for higher things.

Blogger CarpeOro June 04, 2015 5:23 PM  

Bonus points for the Blazing Saddles reference VD.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 04, 2015 5:26 PM  

"47. JI June 04, 2015 4:25 PM
I'm so happy GRR did not write The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I hate to imagine the inter-racial relationships."

Peter Jackson can help you with that. (I only watched the fan edit of The Hobbit, it was good.)

Anonymous fish June 04, 2015 5:27 PM  

36. BigGaySteve June 04, 2015 4:05 PM

Yeah...pretty lame name for "her" series too! I was thinking something along the lines of "Cait minus 8"........inches.

Blogger Rabbi B June 04, 2015 5:27 PM  

" (I only watched the fan edit of The Hobbit, it was good.)"

Is this still available somewhere?

Anonymous Huckleberry (#87) -- est. 1977 June 04, 2015 5:40 PM  

Are you surprised that the SJWs are morally depraved hypocritical assholes?

Depraved hypocritical assholes who never read the books.
Like all those brilliant sophisticates who freaked out when they saw the depressing ending of the movie version of a book that had been published quite a while before.
SJWs never read source material. They'd rather watch the movie/TV show, or take their ques off something someone else said about the source material.

Blogger bw June 04, 2015 6:15 PM  

They Hate Nature.
Reframe your belief system about honesty and the "intellectual Elite".
They Hate it.

Blogger Dexter June 04, 2015 6:25 PM  

the whole series can be redeemed if the ice zombies come down from the north and just slaughter everyone on the wretched continent.

The ice zombie rape scenes practically write themselves!

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 6:34 PM  

"I said it on an earlier thread: the whole series can be redeemed if the ice zombies come down from the north and just slaughter everyone on the wretched continent."

Theon and Seaworth the Hound are the only characters worth saving. Because the only really good thing the Grapist has explored in his series is loyalty.

Obviously the Grapist is opposed to loyalty, but his fallen Muse knows what's up.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 6:35 PM  

"Seaworth and the Hound", I should have said.

Blogger Banshee June 04, 2015 6:35 PM  

Re: Elizabeth Woodville, the "virtuous widowed beauty with the silver-gilt hair" -

Edward didn't have any problem finding women to sleep with him, because he was tall, handsome, and personable. He also seems to have picked widows and courtesans to sleep around with, thus avoiding messing with virgins.

Elizabeth Woodville refused to sleep with him unless she "got a ring on it," so they got married privately. The problem was that apparently, a previous lady, Eleanor Talbot, widow of Sir Thomas Butler, had also refused to sleep with him until after marriage.

So it would seem that Edward was no rapist, but he wasn't above convenient social lies that de-legitimized all his kids.

Blogger Cee June 04, 2015 6:45 PM  

Martin really isn't being all that brave or accurate. Margaret Tudor gave birth to Henry VII at the age of freaking 12. Giving birth nearly killed her, Her husband was dead before her son was born yet she remained deeply devoted to the memory of Edmund Tudor until her death at age 66.

Try putting that in a modern fantasy book.

Carol Berg actually had a very similar character in her own fantasy-Europe-where-the-magic-is-disappearing setting, the Collegia Magica series. (Granted, the woman remarried after the death of her husband, but her continued devotion to him is a plot point.)

If you can stomach the fact they're all part-romance, I recommend all her books. Except Rai Kirah, but that's because I haven't read them yet, so I have no informed opinion. Song of the Beast is probably the ... least coherent of them, I think because it should've been another duology or trilogy but was written as a stand-alone.

Okay, shutting up on that.

I haven't worked up the urge to read through A Dance with Dragons. I think the only characters I liked by that point in time were the priest of the Drowned God, Tyrion, and Brianne. I didn't want to like Jaime but kinda started to.

I think I'll just give it a pass though. More interesting, shorter, more-coherent work to read out there that's a lot more uplifting.

Anonymous The Millennial Falcon June 04, 2015 6:49 PM  

To be fair to Rape Squared, popular histories of medieval Europe like Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror did give the impression that it was all just a bunch of killing and rape and torture.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 6:55 PM  

Thesis:

The primary theme of [the good substrate of] ASOIAF is loyalty. Yeah, this
isn't a brilliant revelation, given the War of Roses influence, but I'm happy
with it.

Loyalty is immensely important, but largely absent from the surface of modern
discourse. We hate traitors and are fascinated with conflicts in loyalty, but
the purely, dedicated loyal men ... we cannot understand. We see them as
caricatures.

Juvenile minds try to romanticize ronin, lordless men, but they always substitute,
usually without knowing, loyalty to a code. The pirate fantasy is of Captain Blood,
not Somalians in a canoe with a Kalashnikov.

This explains both why [book] Bronn is boring and early Sansa is so exasperating.
We don't care what happens to mercenaries, and we despise little girls who
betray their fathers.

And this is why Tyrion became so boring after he killed his father. He had
no substitute to idolize. Tyrion became a free agent, and so became farcical.
The Prodigal Dwarf ended up riding pigs, not feeding them, but the degradation
is the same.

Jaime Lannister is an outright villain, the Kingslayer, until GRRM cackhandedly
humanizes him by revealing his conflicted loyalty.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 04, 2015 6:57 PM  

Bwahahaha, this is such an aggressively stupid comment it's actually pretty funny.

HAHAHAHhah FINALLY, an SJW-like term we can apply with total seriousness to SJWs:

Aggressive Stupidity

They always lie, and they are aggressively stupid.

It's like we have found both strands of their full their DNA sequence now!

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 04, 2015 6:58 PM  

I was thinking something along the lines of "Cait minus 8"........inches.

Don't forget hey have to have negative space for the hole. Actually a better title would be
"If you where an 65yo old attention whore who could only get the media's limelight by cutting off your cock on live TV my love." The hugo award winning story of the worlds quickest tranny.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 6:59 PM  

I forgot about Stannis. (Everybody does).

Stannis, as portrayed by GRRM, exemplifies my point about caricatures. The Grapist doesn't understand virtue, and so he cannot do justice to Stannis.

Blogger Cee June 04, 2015 7:00 PM  

Thesis:

The primary theme of [the good substrate of] ASOIAF is loyalty. Yeah, this
isn't a brilliant revelation, given the War of Roses influence, but I'm happy
with it.

And "a dog is more loyal than a knight". Yes.

That is undoubtedly the root of a lot of conflicted feelings about the series. As Mr. Wright points out, when GRRM is actually letting his muse work, there's potentially profound material there. Otherwise...

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 7:01 PM  

The Grapist, for those who were unaware.

Anonymous fish June 04, 2015 7:02 PM  

"If you where an 65yo old attention whore who could only get the media's limelight by cutting off your cock on live TV my love."

Kinda wordy......!

"Pimped by the Kardashians"

Hmmm.....I'm not married to it!

This is tougher than I thought.

Anonymous Anonymous June 04, 2015 7:02 PM  

George says that "it would be 'boring' and 'dishonest' to leave out sexual violence."

Wow, so he finds violent rape exciting and honest! What does it say about a (white) man if he finds VIOLENT RAPE EXCITING, and an HONEST expression of human behavior?

Sounds to me like he needs a bit of reeducation.

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 7:07 PM  

Pick a name, Anonymous 89. Rules of the blog are linked RIGHT ABOVE THE COMMENT BOX.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami June 04, 2015 7:27 PM  

Don't forget they have to have negative space for the hole.

How about: "Nothing To See Here"

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 04, 2015 7:41 PM  

Just noting it is from HBO is to note that it is nihilistic, so I might as well cheer for the Ice Zombies to come down and rape everyone, twice.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 04, 2015 7:47 PM  

there's potentially profound material there.

I plowed through four books and part of the fifth primarily on the strength of three words: "Winter is coming." That concept grabbed my imagination, provided an urgency that lay behind the events of the first 2-3 books, added depth to the background of the Starks, and promised a real epic scale to things.

Then he dropped that in favor of a soap opera featuring a bunch of people Jerry Springer would consider over-the-top nasty. I kinda doubt he can ever get back to the profound -- or that I'll be willing to plow through another book looking for it -- but I agree, it was there.

Blogger Rygor June 04, 2015 8:09 PM  

I used to think it's a PC bullshit free zone.
I stand corrected

Anonymous Trimegistus June 04, 2015 8:16 PM  

If I recall, Martin originally planned the book as a trilogy. My guess is that the plot was once a lot simpler: in Book 1, big Eddie Stark gets killed, the Lannisters take over, and Ed's kids scatter for safety; meanwhile Danaerys gets hitched to Totally Not Genghis Khan and gets a dragon. Then in Book 2, the Stark kids get the band back together, with allies they've gathered along the way, and Lessa, er, Danaerys and her dragons build up her forces and start moving in on Westeros. Finally in Book 3, there's a big old three-way cage match for the throne which gets interrupted by the arrival of the zombie Scotsmen from beyond the wall. Whoever the boss of the Lannisters is redeems his family honor by going down fighting, Danaerys's dragons incinerate a bunch of zombies, and we end with a dynastic marriage between her and John Snow because JESUS H. CHRIST IT'S RIGHT IN THE TITLE OF THE FUCKING SERIES HOW MORE OBVIOUS CAN YOU GET.

Or maybe the zombie Scotsmen kill everyone and then Henry Tudor takes over because it was all part of his plan.

Anyway: but somewhere along the line the narrative got hijacked by people like Brienne of Tarth or the Bolton dude or whoever. I kind of get the impression Martin just can't bring himself to drop the hammer and bring on the zombie Scotsmen and the big battles, so he's circling around killing time.

Blogger beerme #0183 June 04, 2015 8:35 PM  

I said it on an earlier thread: the whole series can be redeemed if the ice zombies come down from the north and just slaughter everyone on the wretched continent.

That sounds like a great ending, which is why the old fool will never do it.

OpenID ymarsakar June 04, 2015 8:36 PM  

Anyone here who actually thinks they can give writing advice to Martin should start their own series of books; I'm sure fame and fortune await you.

Isn't that why Brandon Sanderson started his own series?

He writes books for Tor, but is one of those rare talents I've never seen before. Well I did, but that one died pretty early.

Anonymous BGS June 04, 2015 8:39 PM  

That sounds like a great ending, which is why the old fool will never do it.

When I saw the first episodes of GOT I thought how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter? I guess magic is the explanation. The fact that kings landing barely has enough food after several years of summer there is no way without a magic Deus ex machina to not have a massive die off just from lack of food.

Blogger Krul June 04, 2015 8:54 PM  

automatthew - "I forgot about Stannis. (Everybody does).

Stannis, as portrayed by GRRM, exemplifies my point about caricatures. The Grapist doesn't understand virtue, and so he cannot do justice to Stannis."


I was surprised to find out a while back that Stannis actually has a substantial and energetic fan base. These are two top rated comments from a random youtube clip that focused on Stannis (from memory):

"There are two kinds of GoT fans: Stannis fans, and FUCKING TRAITOROUS DOGS!"

"The Wall was built to protect the White Walkers from Stannis Baratheon."

Then of course there's their meme: "Stannis the Mannis".

What you said about Stannis being a caricature due to GRRM's limitations is true, but the fans still love him because they can see in him the thing that he's a caricature of, I think.

Basically, Stannis is to GRRM what Rorschach is to Alan Moore.

Anonymous #0046 June 04, 2015 9:38 PM  

Odd how Tolkien, who lived through war, spends his efforts drawing beauty through the darkness, whereas G. Rape Rape M., who only had to survive Doritos, thinks a story is dishonest unless it wallows in darkness.

Martin knows nothing.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) June 04, 2015 10:01 PM  


@jeffro
I couldn't finish the first Game of Thrones novel.

I had to call in sick when I got about half way through Throne of Bones because I *had* to finish the darn thing.


I did finish the first book, but left it at that.

Bran getting chucked off the roof nearly made me stop right there - but the writing was sharp enough, and my experience with some of his shorts enough, I was willing to give it a chance.

By the end, with Ned and most of teh Starks dead, I gave up. Everybody I liked got crapped on, anything resembling beauty got crapped on or twisted. Like Cail said :



@Cail Corishev

Sure, rape happened, but so did cathedrals, Michelangelo's David, and the victory at Lepanto. Where are those things in Westeros? When anything positive is introduced, you can bet it's there for someone to crap on it.



Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 10:14 PM  

Krul: "What you said about Stannis being a caricature due to GRRM's limitations is true, but the fans still love him because they can see in him the thing that he's a caricature of, I think.

Basically, Stannis is to GRRM what Rorschach is to Alan Moore."

Yes, exactly.

An old pervert who wishes to remain a sound nihilist cannot be too careful in his writing. Virtu has a way of breaking loose.

Blogger J Van Stry June 04, 2015 10:38 PM  

Yes, we all remember how boring lord of the rings was, because there was no rape in it.
I think George just has a thing for rape, which is why he writes so much of it.

Anonymous Pax Romana June 04, 2015 10:40 PM  

Yeah, Stannis is great and all but - and my mind may have repressed large segments of book 5 in self-defense - doesn't he worship a daemon god at the behest of an evil sorceress (who apparently gave birth to a daemonic assassin)? And didn't Stannis have his brother and the only living good guy killed (by, once again, calling upon his daemon god)?

How does that have a following? Is it the idea of any port in the storm?

Anonymous NateM June 04, 2015 10:43 PM  

"When I saw the first episodes of GOT I thought how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter? I guess magic is the explanation. The fact that kings landing barely has enough food after several years of summer there is no way without a magic Deus ex machina to not have a massive die off just from lack of food."

THANK YOU.. I constantly wondered that myself. Unless the south could continue producing some food, albeit smaller amounts, to augment their stores, how would that even work?

"I haven't worked up the urge to read through A Dance with Dragons. I think the only characters I liked by that point in time were the priest of the Drowned God, Tyrion, and Brianne. I didn't want to like Jaime but kinda started to."

The books with Cersei as a POV character were just painful to read. She was so incredibly stupid. Sansa was pretty much boring in the books and on the show she is just annoying. I find very great difficulty sympathizing with her at all.

I enjoyed Tyrion in both, he was at least interesting, and somewhat decent. Sure he was an unabashed cynic but he stayed loyal to the family, despite his sister and father giving him ample reason not to bed. And The Hound was another favorite, just for being fun to read. I doubt he's really dead but GRRapist is an idiot if he is. Likewise, if he actually killed Jon Snow (again doubt it) he's broken the story irreparably. Brienne was a bit abrasive at first but she grew on me, especially her interplay with Jamie, and how he would seemingly purposely pester her (at first to annoy her, then just to get her to lighten up). Euron Crow's Eye is an intriguing character so far. Honestly found myself wanting to know where his story was going,

A lot of the other POV characters I just can't bring myself to give a shit about. It took me a while to really care to read about Davos, Stannis is just aggressively unlikable, Bran's plot just drags on and on. Arya's story would be interesting in it's own right, but it just doesn't serve the plot at all so it just seems like a big waste of time. It'd almost make more sense if she made appearances where necessary (which isn't a lot) in the main plot, and her story was a stand alone to fill in the gaps

I honestly think the guy really has no idea how he's going to wrap it up but his ego won't let him admit the hash he's made of it.

Blogger Krul June 04, 2015 10:51 PM  

Re: Pax Romana,

Having discarded ASOIAF after book 2, I wouldn't know.

Though I must say I found it odd that this character's uncompromising legalistic dedication to his country's laws and traditions apparently doesn't apply to his country's religion.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW June 04, 2015 10:51 PM  

And "a dog is more loyal than a knight". Yes.

A boy and his dog?

Anonymous NateM June 04, 2015 10:52 PM  

"How does that have a following? Is it the idea of any port in the storm?"

That's my feeling on it Pax. sort of why I lost enjoyment of the series. You're basically forced to choose between a number of awful, unpleasantly flawed protagonists, and at least one (probably the least flawed) will end up being revealed to have been on the wrong side all along. Cause screw you readers!

Blogger automatthew June 04, 2015 10:58 PM  

Yeah, Stannis is great and all but - and my mind may have repressed large segments of book 5 in self-defense - doesn't he worship a daemon god at the behest of an evil sorceress (who apparently gave birth to a daemonic assassin)? And didn't Stannis have his brother and the only living good guy killed (by, once again, calling upon his daemon god)?

Yes, but that's because GRRM is betraying his character.

Blogger Patrikbc #0344 June 04, 2015 11:02 PM  

So I guess we know his position on crisis resolution

Blogger Krul June 04, 2015 11:09 PM  

Pax Romana - "How does that have a following? Is it the idea of any port in the storm?"

I must admit, in scenes like this one, I can kind of understand the appeal. Although the thing that really impresses there is Davos' loyalty more than Stannis himself.

And the scene really does portray Stannis rather like a "port in a storm", come to think of it.

Blogger olaf lee June 04, 2015 11:18 PM  

Ooh. So the sword cuts both ways. And the sad aspect is that that minor point is that which devides those of the same faith. In this instance martins use of grafic rape is more about the porn then the symbolic use of power. If we just rape...rape...rape....then battle and rape....it becomes less about the the story but a more about a fixation.

Blogger buzzardist June 04, 2015 11:25 PM  

Showing fletchers putting the feathers on every arrow made for every battle would be realistic, but Martin doesn't do that. Why not? It's necessary battle preparation. But it would be boring.

That's really all Martin cares about. As with most authors, he plays with similitude of realism, but he doesn't want actual realism any more than his readers do. What Martin wants is to give excitement...and he regards rape as exciting. Regular sex is relatively boring. Rape is exciting. That's the only thing to take away from Martin's justifications.

And based on the popularity of the books and TV show, a lot of readers and viewers are of the same mind.

Anonymous FP June 04, 2015 11:34 PM  

Guys, its not about rape after all. Its about climate change.

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/4/8724821/game-of-thrones-climate-change

"The big wars in Game of Thrones — the Baratheon-Targaryen-Stark-Tyrell-Lannister free-for-all — are basically supposed to stand-in for these complications. All of these noble houses are focused on their short-term interests, but pursuing them is blocking the real problem: stopping White Walkers and their zombie army. Likewise, CO2 emissions skyrocketed in the past 100 years — with potentially catastrophic consequences for the human race.

Summer is coming."

Blogger Cail Corishev June 04, 2015 11:37 PM  

how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter?

With great difficulty. It's a lot of work to store up enough food for one year, let alone seven. You'd probably have to have a strong monarch or tyrant capable of overriding public sentiment, like the pharaoh advised by Joseph in the Old Testament. A democracy would never do it (it even eats the seed corn), and a squabbling group of kings like in Westeros probably couldn't either. Assuming the political will, it still wouldn't be easy, requiring a lot of storage space, hard work to preserve it and protect it from pests and spoilage, and organization to gather it and then pass it back out.

In some settings, hunting can provide a lot of food in the winter, so the Starks could be better off than some of the southerners. It depends on how bad the winter is, though. The Donner Party was camped next to a lake, but none of them knew how to fish through the ice, and the snow was so deep that the game disappeared.

Mostly, people who've never tried producing all (or even most of) their food -- and I assume Martin falls into that category -- have no idea what's involved.

Anonymous Will Best June 04, 2015 11:44 PM  

That this is happen while the Twilight fanporn author lady's new book from the rapists perspective is the #1 selling book provides me with much amusement.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales June 05, 2015 12:07 AM  

Hey, watching the fletchers assemble the feathers on the arrows for battle would be awesome, especially since it's something not usually seen and would add some dimension to the world.

Blogger buzzardist June 05, 2015 1:08 AM  

In a battle with 3000 archers firing at a leisurely pace of 10 arrows a minute...yeah, does anyone really want to see the arrow-by-arrow preparation that goes into manufacturing every arrow? On screen, the extent shown is usually a fletcher in the background as the camera pans across the scene, or maybe a lord asking about how many arrows have been made if this becomes an important plot detail. A detailed novel might give a page of description about how an arrow is made. A typical pass at realism might give a sentence or two about the extent of the preparations. Strict realism would leave your mind as numb as a fletcher's fingers after a 16-hour day making arrows. Seeing an arrow made...cool. Seeing half a million arrows made...boring.

Blogger buzzardist June 05, 2015 1:22 AM  

how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter?

With great difficulty. It's a lot of work to store up enough food for one year, let alone seven.


Considering that in one of the recent episodes Lord Bolton mentioned having six months of food stored in Winterfell--and that Bolton stated this as a point of confidence and pride--I'm skeptical that the show's makers or Martin have given half a thought to what's needed for a winter of uncertain length, but that will almost certainly last many years. Six months of food may have been enough for the Boltons to outlast a siege. To survive a seven-year winter, even if game was plentiful, they'd probably need ten times what they have.

For that much food, they'd need massive storage space for it all. They'd need methods to prevent spoilage. They'd need production methods to build up that surplus. They'd need the political will to organize the storage, even though no one is certain when the next winter will come. Lacking this, they'd need a transportation infrastructure and massive surpluses in warmer climates to maintain a steady supply of food. Has ASOIAF or GOT accounted for any of this to the extent necessary? No.

Ergo, in Martin's mind, rape is far more interesting and exciting than starvation. Realism would dictate that characters behave a lot differently than they do in preparing for winter, but that realism is lacking. Instead, Martin wants to imagine a lot of rapes.

Blogger buzzardist June 05, 2015 1:23 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger luagha June 05, 2015 1:54 AM  

Obviously, the thing to do is have some sort of conversation, information dump, minor emotional conflict taking place while characters are sitting around doing all the mundane things they'd better do in order to survive.

In other genres, this is sometimes done with 'gearing up montages' like in Rambo 2, and Stallone putting on all his guns and knives and manfully tensing his biceps while he ties the speedlaces of his combat boots super tight.

Blogger eharmonica June 05, 2015 2:19 AM  

110. Patrikbc #0344 June 04, 2015 11:02 PM

So I guess we know his position on crisis resolution

Thread winner.

Blogger murphaticlaw June 05, 2015 3:22 AM  

@j43094 Suprisingly enough, given Vox's evil bigotry, he's managed to collect quite a diverse audience.

So yes, some people are probably serious in their complaints about works of art about rape.

Others probably couldn't care less what kind of twisted maulk he puts in his stories, and are objecting to his hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of his fans.

Some may be objecting because, in the case of the Gengis Khan dude banging the blond chick and then with Sansa, neither says no. It's only rape under the active consent silliness.

By the way lady's, if you object that they couldn't say no, because consequences....well that's always been the problem with standing up to tyranny. Saying no might suck but it is still an option.


@BGS When I saw the first episodes of GOT I thought how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter?

Cannibalism, I thought that was already established? By the freaks beyond the wall?

And did anyone actually click the link? The actress playing Sansa says “It's also so daunting for me to do it. I've been making [the producers] feel so bad for writing that scene: "I can't believe you're doing this to me!" But I secretly loved it.”

Blogger Jmac June 05, 2015 3:36 AM  

Rape Rape is wrong. Epic fantasy isn't about "war," war is just the backdrop. Epic fantasy is about heroism. It's not surprising he gets that wrong.

Blogger JP June 05, 2015 7:23 AM  

So he thinks he's a better writer than Tolkien?

Blogger Steveo #238 June 05, 2015 8:14 AM  

George 2Rape Martin...

Name like that has street cred.

Blogger Steveo #238 June 05, 2015 8:18 AM  

George 2Rape Martin...

Name like that has street cred.

Blogger thule222 June 05, 2015 9:21 AM  

Ygrette fletched arrows once and it was really hot. That might have just been her though.

Blogger Calbeck June 05, 2015 9:25 AM  

He makes a perfectly valid point about rape (i.e., that it was common to the Middle Ages and particularly so in times of conflict). And of course, he's writing a fantasy novel.

However, this won't for an instant protect Mr. Martin from those who are, right now, declaring those exact same sorts of defenses UTTERLY INVALID for medieval fantasy stories set in times of conflict.

A new edition of "The Witcher", set in a culturally Polish realm with numerous fantasy elements, is currently under fire from The Usual Suspects in the gaming-criticism community. An excellent article on the subject is at TechRaptor: http://techraptor.net/content/diversity-gaming

"Attacking The Witcher 3 was the perfect game to showcase how the “culture critics” have wantonly cast aside diversity in favor for something as shallow as race. Basically, many arguments for the lack of diversity in The Witcher 3 have almost entirely to do with skin color, which only serves to illustrate an obsession with physical appearance."

Here's Polygon, spouting the nonsense TechRaptor was (in part) responding to: http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/3/8719389/colorblind-on-witcher-3-rust-and-gamings-race-problem

"Many players have responded to concerns about the lack of people of color in the game by saying it’s because the world is based on Slavic mythology... But this misses a crucial point: Things are not equal. We are not in a medium that features predominantly Indian men, Chinese women, or focuses on stories from Africa. We’re part of an industry that frequently tells the stories of white people and stars white people."

Notice the instant shifting of goalposts. From discussing the GAME, the writer is now discussing the INDUSTRY, and saying the issues of the latter should direct the content of the former. Either that, or the entire point is a complete non-sequitur. Then he gabbles some nonsense about how "whitewashing" and "racebending" are two completely different things because one is about replacing a given character's race, and the other is about... replacing a given character's race.

Well, I DID say it was nonsense.

"As Anjali Patel highlights: 'Whitewashing takes over the limited space people of color have to exist in the entertainment industry as complex, multifaceted individuals, and then shuts them out completely. Whereas: 'Racebending... counters that, in a way. It demands a space for people of color to exist in franchises where they are severely underrepresented.' Thus, wanting more people of color in stories that focus on mythology for a predominantly white culture doesn’t work the other way. Wanting white people in spaces dedicated to people of color ignores that stories of white people already dominate this and other creative industries."

It's all the same thing... to these people, it's about "spaces" and "domination" in the industry as a whole, and to them the game --- or rather, the game's characters and story --- are just the football. They always have to possess it, seize it, because without it they can neither "score" nor "win the game"... as they see it.

It's the same madness that seized the SF/F community. The Puppies and #GamerGate are most definitely dealing with the same self-entitled, self-appointed arbiters of moral doctrine, the sort who would likely have burned comic books and rock albums during similar moral panics of decades past.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 05, 2015 10:54 AM  

"119. buzzardist June 05, 2015 1:22 AM
how would a population that large be able to survive a 7 year winter?

With great difficulty. It's a lot of work to store up enough food for one year, let alone seven.
...
For that much food, they'd need massive storage space for it all. They'd need methods to prevent spoilage. They'd need production methods to build up that surplus. They'd need the political will to organize the storage, even though no one is certain when the next winter will come. Lacking this, they'd need a transportation infrastructure and massive surpluses in warmer climates to maintain a steady supply of food. Has ASOIAF or GOT accounted for any of this to the extent necessary? No.
..."




Along with the political will they would also need long term record keeping techniques and the social systems needed to maintain them. That would mean libraries would be everywhere and reverence for the written word would be deeply ingrained into every child. In other words something more than just the maesters. It would be society wide and bone deep.

You might wonder about the record keeping. How can you tell if this barrel of food is older than that barrel of food, without assiduous record keeping you can't. Yes, a culture that reveres the written word starts with accountants.

Anonymous Trimegistus June 05, 2015 11:39 AM  

There's an interesting fantasy to be written about a civilization trying to endure an unpredictable climate. Game of Thrones isn't it. My guess is that when he started on his "Wars of the Roses but with dragons" series, he threw in the irregular seasons as a cool background detail and thought nothing of it.

Anonymous BGS June 05, 2015 1:47 PM  

"Many players have responded to concerns about the lack of people of color in the game by saying it’s because the world is based on Slavic

Looking through the comments on that article I can not believe how many think Poland was chock full of niggers, they must be editing comments. White people are the only ones that have actual diversity for video game images. Chose eye ( brown, green blue) chose hair ( black brown blond red), no one else comes with choices. Have to tell these people that just because they saw a black queen of England on a show that they didn't exist in England when the bow was the greatest weapon.

For that much food, they'd need massive storage space for it all. They'd need methods to prevent spoilage.

Even freeze dried nitrogen packed years worth of food for one person takes up more space than you would think. Grains & rice can be good for 10 years honey never goes bad(if crystalized reheat), that's assuming you don't have pests. Older seeds are less likely to germinate

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 05, 2015 2:34 PM  

GRRM's dyshistory perhaps. I have zero interest in lecherous typecasting.

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