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Monday, June 01, 2015

Mailvox: a collection of questions

A new reader has a boatload of questions. This is merely the first half. I'll address the other half later this week:
First time e-mail correspondent here, as well as a reader of your blog for about a month-and-a-half now. My religious beliefs could best be described as "conflicted", or "confused", or "I'm not even 100% sure what I believe but I'm trying to find out". My political ideologies and other personal beliefs are in a similar state of flux, and thus, all four of my questions are asked mostly out of curiosity, partly because I know you'll give a good answer (Should you choose to respond), and partly because you (unlike quite a few people) cite your sources.

Oh, and I read The Irrational Atheist from front to back. Twice. Once when I was 14, the old man gave me TIA to read, because that was when I was really asking the hard questions about my childhood faith and wondering whether or not the godless teenagers that went to high school with me had a point or not, but it was a bit intellectually above me and I didn't really absorb the arguments presented all that well. Now, at the tender age of 20, having read the book a second time, I can say with absolute confidence: They really, really didn't. And having seen what passes for the intellectual atheist, I can also say with the same confidence: Whatever my religious beliefs turn out to be in the future, I certainly never want to turn out like THAT.

1. Given the rather thorny issue of homosexuality, this isn't really one question but several related ones. I've read your beliefs that homosexuality is an evil, but not really much beyond that. (Others have claimed that you said it's a birth defect, but I'm aware that's not the case. I recognize a media smear campaign when I see one) So, I have a few questions to pin down exactly what you think about it:

a) Do you believe all evils are inherently equal? b) Do you feel that homosexuality equals coveting your neighbor's possessions equals adultery equals murder? c)Is there a set hierarchy? d)Or does God judge such things on a case by case basis, acting in the role of The Universal Judge?

e)Do you believe that homosexuality is a choice? The act itself clearly is, but the desire as well? Many gay people that I've personally spoken to claim they would have "opted out" if they had been given a choice in the matter, not necessarily out of any love for Jesus Christ (Although there are those that do), but a desire to be normal and get through the day unmolested. f) If the desire is not a choice, if it is something that is designated at birth, then how does this relate to the Christian view of homosexuality, which seems to view it as an active choice that the perpetrator can choose to stop doing at any time?

g) Do you know of any testimonial or historical evidence that indicates that a person who is gay can become straight by means of conversion, prayer, or worship of the Christian God? I am aware of testimony that such prayer and worship that has cured diseases, addictions, psychological issues, ended crippling pain, and even cured physical birth defects like limps or both legs being different lengths. Wouldn't it then follow, that such a God would be capable of ending a homosexual desire to those who asked? Wouldn't it then follow that such a God would WANT to do so, to remove evil desires from those who wish to have them removed?

h) Hypothetically speaking, if you had turned out to have a primarily (or even exclusive) male sexual preference, how do you believe this would have affected your belief and worship of Jesus Christ? i) Do you think you would attempt to be chaste? j) Would you still denounce the behavior as evil? k) Would you even renounce your worship of God altogether?
I have no idea what the young man's reason for asking these questions might be and I don't see any need for anyone to play any guessing games in that regard. After all, it could be anything from an inexplicable craving for Erasure to an overreliance on the philosophy of Macklemore. I will admit that I found it rather amusing to see how some reacted so badly to the "birth defect" comment, considering that it is the preferred alternative explanation to abnormal sexual orientation being a matter of choice. Any abnormality that renders a living being considerably less fit by virtue of presenting a reproductive handicap, be it physical or psychological, must be regarded as a material defect by anyone who subscribes to TENS, and if we are to believe that homosexuality is determined in the prenatal state, then "birth defect" is exactly what gay activists have been proclaiming homosexuality to be for decades. By literal definition from Wikipedia: "Congenital disorder, also known as congenital disease or birth defect, is a condition existing at or before birth regardless of cause."

I'd think people would be more considerably concerned that one could also make an alarmingly strong case for high cognitive capacity being a congenital disorder in modern society on this basis, but then, we mustn't deny the rainbow crowd their dramatics.

a) No. All evils are not equal, either in terms of their consequences or the way in which we are informed God regards them. b) No. In addition to the 10 Commandments being specified, Jesus explained that one Commandment was the most important one. c) There does not appear to be a strictly ordered A-Z hierarchy. d) Yes, as we are told God knows and judges what is in a man's heart.

e) I believe all actions are choices, though not necessarily conscious and definitely not always rational. And I believe some inclinations are innate. But it's not a binary situation, as our choices lead to consequential inclinations we would not possess had we made different choices. It's quite clear, if you happen to know any homosexuals, that some come to their orientation very naturally, others choose it for a variety of reasons, and still others have it thrust upon them by others.

f) This is a misunderstanding of the Christian perspective. We all have evil inclinations. We all experience temptation. What tempts you does not tempt me, and vice-versa. But we are all responsible for resisting whatever temptations happen to call to us.

g) Yes, I have known people who no longer act on their homosexual inclinations and some who say they are no longer troubled by them. Not all of them are Christian, as it happens. I believe in a tantiscient God who can do whatever He decides to do. But we live on the Silent Planet, in a world that He does not rule, a world that is riddled with evil, and so it should be no surprise that evils and misfortunes continue to be inflicted upon us by its ruling power. That's why we ask, why we pray, that His will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven, because for the most part it is not being done that way right now on Earth. (Note to Team Calvin: not now.) If it was, we wouldn't need to ask for it.

h) Very little, considering that I was a hedonistic pagan agnostic with a Porsche and a record contract. Temptation is temptation. i) Yes. j) Yes. There are plenty of things that I would very much like to do that I have no problem describing as evil and rejecting on that basis. k) No chance.

There is a reason that Christianity is described as the hard and narrow path. It's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. Don't listen to the idiots who claim that Jesus Christ will solve all your problems and make you rich and cure your hangnails if you only say the magic words. They're just scam artists trying to sell you something. Christianity isn't Candyland, it is a very dark and terrible vision of a very scary place, of a universe that isn't merely indifferent to you, but is actively seeking to destroy you, body and soul.

And if that doesn't better reflect the reality we observe around us than every other philosophical and religious creed you've ever encountered, then I have to very seriously question whether you are paying attention to the world around you. To reject that reality because you really, really, really want to nail the hot little brunette in the miniskirt who is making eyes at you isn't even wrong, it's category error.

As for the issues of God's inclination and ability to address orientational temptation, I think you would be much better off listening to this man on the subject than to me:

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140 Comments:

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 01, 2015 6:33 AM  

>I'd think people would be more considerably concerned that one could also make an alarmingly strong case for high cognitive capacity being a congenital disorder in modern society on this basis, but then, we mustn't deny the rainbow crowd their dramatics.

I foresee such status whoring...as this world has never seen...

Honestly I hope the SJWs start running with that one. Would get interesting fast.

Anonymous ODG June 01, 2015 6:59 AM  

1) All sin separates us from God. Whether or not some separate us further than others is up to debate, but once separated, only the shed blood of Jesus can bring us back.

2) Some sins are definitely worse for our earthly relationships than others. My wife is going to be a lot more affected and angry if I commit adultery than if I covet the neighbor's Porsche.

Anonymous zen0 June 01, 2015 7:00 AM  

But we live in a world that He does not rule, a world that is evil, and so it should be no surprise that evils and misfortunes continue to be inflicted upon us by the prince of this world.

Kind of like a Valley of the Shadow of Death, so to speak.

And the older one gets, the broader the Shadow seems to be cast.

Anonymous PA June 01, 2015 7:34 AM  

"Christianity isn't easy"

The band U2 has drawn inspiration from Christian sources, however twisted by other imperatives they then become through the artistic process. A particular line in the song "One" long ago struck me as coming from a purely Christian place:

You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you've got
When all you've got is hurt.

Blogger Krul June 01, 2015 7:35 AM  

C.S Lewis' discussion of moral law and instinct has some relevance to the modern homosexuality discussion. Lewis points out that the moral law does not encourage us to indulge in all our instincts all the time. Rather, it tells us which instincts to act on and which instincts to suppress in a given situation. So if the homosexual impulse is a genetic tendency present in a person from birth, an "instinct", this does not imply that it is moral to act on it.

OpenID simplytimothy June 01, 2015 7:36 AM  

And the older one gets, the broader the Shadow seems to be cast.

And the more confidently we walk in the Light.

Anonymous Paul Sacramento June 01, 2015 7:57 AM  

It is quite obvious to anyone that understand biology and the TENS that homosexuality, if genetic, is a birth defect and that indulging in homosexuality is a deviant behavior. The issue is that people don't like the sound of those words. It's an emotional issue and not a logical one.
As for the rest, well said as usual.
Though I tend to not agree with the comment that God is not the ruler of this world.

Blogger LibertyPortraits June 01, 2015 8:13 AM  

Similar to the argument about religion being a crutch and what should we think of the crutch-kickers. If homosexuality is a birth defect, what shall we think of those who label such people as abominations, when clearly such misgivings are beyond their control? However, if homosexuality can be understood as a fetish, how many of us have been tempted to act on our fetishes but choose not to? Perhaps the temptation for buggery is not as intense as homosexuals would like to have us believe. Not that I care.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 01, 2015 8:16 AM  

It's quite clear, if you happen to know any homosexuals, that some come to their orientation very naturally, others choose it for a variety of reasons, and still others have it thrust upon them by others.

Yep. There are some boys who just seem light in the loafers from a very young age. On the other hand, active homosexuals almost universally report childhood abuse or at least an upside-down home life where their mother was dominant. It's always seemed to me that it's probably a combination of nature and nurture: some inherent traits toward effeminacy (whether genetic or disease-caused near birth), exacerbated by sexual abuse and/or family dysfunction. One or the other may not be enough to push a guy into mental illness.

Some people may be born with an urge to burn things, but it makes a difference whether they grow up in a house full of matches and oily rags.

Anonymous pvb June 01, 2015 8:18 AM  

Sy Rogers is a fascinating speaker. Formerly gay and a cross dresser, he is now married with a daughter and has been in ministry for 35 years. He still has effeminate mannerisms and would most likely be thought to be gay by people that meet him however he (as far as I know) has faithfully served God since his conversion. Very intelligent and articulate and specializing in issues of sexuality, I always enjoy when he comes to our church.

Here is a clip of Sy Rogers.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 8:24 AM  

It's always seemed to me that it's probably a combination of nature and nurture: some inherent traits toward effeminacy (whether genetic or disease-caused near birth), exacerbated by sexual abuse and/or family dysfunction. One or the other may not be enough to push a guy into mental illness.

That's the most sensible explanation.

Blogger Doom June 01, 2015 8:25 AM  

Better you than me. Though, for such a one, I would just have reverted him to his parents. Even if some like you spoke to me at his age, and several ages since. I don't have that gift. Though I am not sure I completely trust, nor would, he is who he suggests. Seems legit, could be a trap of many kinds. Probably wouldn't affect you, as things stand. A danger here.

I don't know, even being quite different from you in many ways, I don't see a great deal I would have suggested differently, especially the last part.

The last part is a defining part. If you don't understand that the world is set against the truly faithful to Christ, you won't ever see it coming. Seeing it coming may not even save your life, but it might allow you to prepare for the hit, the pain, death, and allow you to buck up against it even to your bloody end. Better than losing your soul for more air, often just enough extra breaths to damn yourself at that. Believe it or else, I think you did well.

As to my temptation, it is women... to answer one of his questions... outside of wedlock. I knew it was wrong when I was doing it, just did not care. I knew it was sin, accepted that fact on face value, even as a secular or agnostic. At the time, I considered myself damned, or irrelevant, or such, anyway. Now that I do care, found a way, I have chosen celibacy. Until or unless I can find a wife. There is more I could probably say, but that is enough. Not much trust. Twelve years. Celibacy sucks, but... better than sinning. And, yes, opportunity... abounds. Just ran away from a hard test recently. I knew I couldn't have turned her away, and I believed she was quite available. She was so right and so very wrong.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 8:30 AM  

I am so sick of hearing the whining about gay temptation.

Look you whiney little bastards... your temptations are no worse than any one's. We all were expected to deny those temptations. All through the teen years of raging hormones we're expected to fight down those urges in the face of an ever increasing wave of temptation thrown at us from nearly every direction.

Crazy thought.

Stop being a pussy. Deal with your own issues. We all have them. You think alcoholics are going to stop being tempted by booze? No. they aren't. Ever. They will deal with it the rest of their lives. Does that make alcoholism ok? No. It doesn't.

The same goes for any thing else. married men suffer the same temptations... probably worse than gays do.

And what about the gluttons? if they do manage to get control of their eating... you think they will ever be able to relax? You think there won't be huge displays of the yummy whatevers that tempt them so everywhere they go?

Oh but no.... you're just so damn special. Your temptation is just so much worse than everyone else.

Well piss off. I don't care how obsessed with sucking dicks you are. you don't love dick more than a 700 pound man loves doritos. In fact... neither of you really love those things at all. You're just running to them to hide some other pain (in each case almost always daddy issues).

So... to sum up...

quityerbitchin

Anonymous Baseball Savant June 01, 2015 8:33 AM  

Hey Vox, can you ask your grandpa can I have his hand me downs?

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 8:35 AM  

There's a reason self control is one of the fruits of the spirit.

Anonymous Earl June 01, 2015 8:35 AM  

The orthosphere.org blog has a regular commenter that is a traditionalist Buddhist abstinent homosexual.

There are many testimonies of recovered homosexuals, only a Google search away. I understand the desire for a personal testimony rather than a keyboard testimony though. For this a person need to get deeply involved in a counseling ministry and build the kind of relationships required for such confidence as to learn such a personal thing from someone.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 8:40 AM  

Hey Vox, can you ask your grandpa can I have his hand me downs?

Damn he got the Velcros

Anonymous Baseball Savant June 01, 2015 8:42 AM  

Hey Josh, I just bought a broken keyboard!

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 8:43 AM  

"Hey Vox, can you ask your grandpa can I have his hand me downs?'

That reminds me... Me and David the Good have to back to that parody of guys buying cheap world war two rifles...


"I've gotta Mosin Nag..."

"no really, ask your grandpa, can I have is battle rifle?"

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 8:43 AM  

Damn that's a cold ass honky

Blogger VD June 01, 2015 8:47 AM  

No, it's my chair now.

It's interesting to watch Sy Rogers. He's fairly camp, and yet when he is speaking of the Word, his mannerisms and posture become more masculine and his voice becomes more assertive.

Blogger Elmo Shangnaster June 01, 2015 9:03 AM  

@Paul Sacramento Though I tend to not agree with the comment that God is not the ruler of this world.

And He [the Holy Spirit] , when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. - John 16:8-11

He, satan, is the prince or ruler of this world, but that doesn't mean he's sovereign over it.

Blogger Markku June 01, 2015 9:05 AM  

Technically, Satan is regent.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 9:10 AM  

Technically, wouldn't man be back in charge since Jesus took the keys from Satan, the same keys Adam had given to Satan?

Or would that only be true for the redeemed?

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 9:12 AM  

"Technically, wouldn't man be back in charge since Jesus took the keys from Satan, the same keys Adam had given to Satan?"

Navel Gazing in 3.... 2....

Blogger dc.sunsets June 01, 2015 9:18 AM  

For the rare atheist here, substitute "vice" for "sin" and use reason (instead of rationalization) to arrive at the list of do's and don'ts.

Today is saturated with vices. Casual sex. Porn. Chemicals (both legal and illegal drugs and alcohol.) Endless swapping of banalities on text or social media. Hoarding. Any of these and more often suck in the unwary with transitory pleasure, but damage long-term happiness. They make shallow relationships and foment blind narcissism in place of rational self-interest (which paradoxically highlights the need for devotion to select others.)

Western Civ is visibly self-destructing, in a fraction of the time it took for the Roman Empire to waste away. It is doing so one person at a time, and the means is vice. Or sin, if you prefer.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 9:22 AM  

"For the rare atheist here, substitute "vice" for "sin" and use reason (instead of rationalization) to arrive at the list of do's and don'ts. "

Reason?

I don't think that means what you think it means. Reason leads to conclusions... but they aren't the ones you're imagining. Kant was a moron.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 9:23 AM  

Hoarding.

Do you mean preppers or those people who never throw anything away?

Blogger dc.sunsets June 01, 2015 9:23 AM  

Technically, wouldn't man be back in charge since Jesus took the keys from Satan, the same keys Adam had given to Satan?

I thought, during Satan's Temptation of Christ, that he pointed to all the kingdoms of Earth and said, "These are all mine to give you."

This remains one of my most amusing thoughts when I see one church after another, one priest or minister or pastor indulge in political activity from the pulpit. They don't even know whose team it is for whom they really play.

Is it blasphemy, as Lawrence Vance suggests, when churches display the American Flag, or is it just truth in advertizing?

Blogger dc.sunsets June 01, 2015 9:26 AM  

"Hoarding" in the sense that many Americans are so addicted to shopping that they must rent self-storage units to handle the overflow.

My astonishment meter noticeably ticked higher when self-storage firms began to spring up, what, about 20 years ago?

Blogger VD June 01, 2015 9:26 AM  

What part of "not now" did some of you not understand? This is NOT a theology thread. Learn to exercise that fruit of the spirit, self-control.

Get one thing very straight: there is not a single individual here who is the Theology Police.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 9:27 AM  

Is it blasphemy, as Lawrence Vance suggests, when churches display the American Flag, or is it just truth in advertizing?

I don't see how the pledge of allegiance is compatible with the ten commandments. You're literally making a vow to a graven image.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes June 01, 2015 9:29 AM  

Every homosexual that I’ve know has grown up under particular environmental conditions. I’ve seen this pattern time and time again, and even discovered that Camille Paglia shares this view. I have yet to meet a gay man that does not grow up under the following conditions:

An absentee or abusive father (in either case, physically or emotionally), combined with a mother who, since her needs are not being met by her spouse, looks to the child for her own emotional nurturing, thus stimulating an unnatural closeness and feminization of the child.

This abnormal relationship with the mother results in boys associating all female relationships with motherhood, causing a revulsion toward normal male/female attraction. In girls, this abnormal motherly closeness results in seeking out female relationships, because there was never a healthy man in their life and all emotional needs were exclusively met by mother.

Not all children who grow up under these conditions become gay, so there seem to be some additional personality components that must be in play. But the basic environmental condition is usually present.

Blogger SarahsDaughter June 01, 2015 9:32 AM  

Thank you for posting that video.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 9:32 AM  

What do y'all think of the gay pathogen theory?

Blogger dc.sunsets June 01, 2015 9:35 AM  

I don't think that means what you think it means. Reason leads to conclusions... but they aren't the ones you're imagining. Kant was a moron.

Sorry, you're speaking Greek to me. I don't pay attention to the sophist-philosophers. I have yet to encounter one who didn't end up in circles, and I long ago gave up being impressed by those whose purpose was to demonstrate their superior intellects by spouting confusion and painting it opaque. Philosophy 101 would have bored me silly.

There is a Path onto Happiness Plateau. It can be discerned. Actions either keep me on my Path or lead me into the Ditch. I'm on HP and my main job is to stay there. Since paradox suffuses every corner of life, it turns out that self-interest drives interest in the happiness of my fellow travelers (wife, kids, etc.). Vices lead to the Ditch. It's pretty simple.

Your mileage may vary.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 01, 2015 9:37 AM  

Reason 143 why I don't envy noted bloggers: Confused proto-adults ask questions you feel compelled to answer. Ugh.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 9:45 AM  

"Reason 143 why I don't envy noted bloggers: Confused proto-adults ask questions you feel compelled to answer. Ugh."

Its an opportunity to help someone. Many someone's actually as, for every 1 person that took the time to email you, there are likely dozens that have similar questions and just didn't bother to take the time to ask.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 9:46 AM  

"There is a Path onto Happiness Plateau. It can be discerned. "

sure... and maybe the path there means eating people. Or listening to the Pet Shop Boys just a little to much...

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 9:49 AM  

People are drawn to different sins, when they act on those desires and engage in that behavior, that strengths the association their brain has with that behavior and pleasure.

Blogger wrf3 June 01, 2015 9:52 AM  

dc.sunset wrote: I thought, during Satan's Temptation of Christ, that he pointed to all the kingdoms of Earth and said, "These are all mine to give you."

Remember, Satan is an SJW. He always lies.

Blogger Corvinus June 01, 2015 9:54 AM  

Starbucks doubles down on SJWism, encourages those who aren't sodomogamophiles to dump its shares and boycott it:

Link

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 9:55 AM  

yep. That's literally all it is Josh. But... as always... you have an Enemy out there using sin and vice to divide people and drive a wedge in the church.

Blogger wrf3 June 01, 2015 9:56 AM  

Josh wrote: People are drawn to different sins...

Exactly. So the primary issue isn't to change one's behavior with respect to that particular sin. The primary issue is to believe what the Savior has done for that sin. Believe the Gospel first, and then deal with the sin. You might find it gone in an instant. You might find the struggle actually becomes harder. But now you have an intercessor and you've become part of a family that should love you and help you.

Blogger wrf3 June 01, 2015 9:59 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote: There is a Path onto Happiness Plateau.

And why that particular path, especially since God says that the ultimate goal isn't Happiness, but Holiness? If your primary goal is happiness then you'll end up in misery. If your primary goal is holiness, you'll end up in joy everlasting.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 10:00 AM  

There is a Path onto Happiness Plateau.

The "God Just Wants You To Be Happy" message that is prevalent in many churches (think of Joel Osteen) plays right into the gay agenda because all they have to do is respond with "well, having sex with men makes me happy."

Anonymous Jay Will June 01, 2015 10:03 AM  

Don't discount lack of sexual options as a reason for homosexuality. A local example near me of a man who "came out" in his 40's. He was short, bespectacled, grey early in adulthood, presumably little sexual experience. His first public boyfriend was a Thai guy, who had a feminine look to him and wore makeup. Yeah...he was born gay, obviously.

Also I had a strange moment in my youth. During a period where I was diagnosed with clinical depression I had a period of a day or two where I thought I might be gay. Ironically one evening, while very drunk, I talked to a mate about it I ended up pulling a student in the local town who came on to me. Went back to her flat etc etc. This was crazy because all of that self-doubt was immediately burst by a one night stand. It seemed ridiculous to me that Id even thought it in the first place. I realize for most men that doubt would never arise but how many men have had those thoughts at some point. Maybe it isn't so tiny. In that context think about "woman in a mans body" Bruce Jenner types, sexual failure, cuckoldry etc etc. Its all really brutal when you break it down to a personal level. Who would I be right now with regular sexual intimacy with women?

Also, just to note the student who came onto me lay on my chest for about 5-10 minutes then abruptly got up and said I had to leave. I realize now that is possible that she felt intimate (oxytocin?) and her career/student self took over- fight against that emotion your future matters more sort of thing. Love equals kids, family, settle down. Thats a career destroyer so must shut the emotion down.

Seems likely that guys like me, in a more K selected environment can easily feel left out. There are all sorts of possible side effects to this, including an increased tendency towards gamma fantasy. Dominance seems a crucial word in all this. Its what I search for, hope for, Ive retreated to fantasy because its hard to find it anywhere else. It seems like in womens innermost sexual nature wants this and I can't give it to them. Then you get blanked...though don't moan or whinge loser (effectively this is feminism, its aimed at men like me not at patriarchal dominant men)

I think the truth about homosexuality, however complicated, would be a disaster for the LGBTQX crowd. Don't study it, you might not like what you find ;)

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 10:04 AM  

" Christianity isn't Candyland, it is a very dark and terrible vision of a very scary place, of a universe that isn't merely indifferent to you, but is actively seeking to destroy you, body and soul."

indeed. Its something Stickwick touched on just a bit on the ATF Show... and something I'd love to talk more with her about. Darkness appears to be a Thing in the Bible... not just the absence of a thing. The implications of this to a theoretical physicist christian is pretty obvious. God is fighting darkness and "the waters" in the Bible. Darkness = Dark Matter and Dark Energy?

I dunno. But its certainly fascinating and something I will talk with her about again.

Anonymous pvb June 01, 2015 10:10 AM  

You're welcome. Sy is also a musician in the style of 80's-90's new wave bands.

Media Slaves video.

Anonymous jamsco June 01, 2015 10:19 AM  

"a world that is riddled with evil, and so it should be no surprise that evils and misfortunes continue to be inflicted upon us by its ruling power. That's why we ask, why we pray, that His will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven, because for the most part it is not being done that way right now on Earth. (Note to Team Calvin: not now.)"

I chuckled when I saw the Note. I was also a bit relieved.

And I'd also like to say that I agree with almost everything in this post, including all of the above text.

Blogger Bruce Lewis June 01, 2015 10:21 AM  

(Note to Team Calvin: not now.)

Literal LOL.

Of course, since you were eternally predestined to write those words, and I to read them, it really doesn't matter.

Blogger Josh June 01, 2015 10:23 AM  

I realize now that is possible that she felt intimate (oxytocin?) and her career/student self took over- fight against that emotion your future matters more sort of thing. Love equals kids, family, settle down. Thats a career destroyer so must shut the emotion down.

Or maybe she sobered up?

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 10:27 AM  

"Don't discount lack of sexual options as a reason for homosexuality."

Jay way back years ago we had a regular commenter here called El Zinky Pinky... he was the founder and president of Vox's Queer Party Friends.

He was queer as a football bat... but it had nothing to do with him liking guys. He just couldn't stand putting up with women's bullshit. He would talk about how much easier it was to just go let some guy blow you and not have to deal with women.

That's all it was for him.

Blogger Quadko June 01, 2015 10:32 AM  

We all have evil inclinations. We all experience temptation.
I've wondered how a discussion/debate on the "Christianity must change to approve homosexual actions" topic would go when put in a context of everyone's need to resist temptation, whether for an Arabian Nights harem, stuff, power, or same sex attraction. The discussions I've heard are so focused on the detail of the topic at hand I think they lose powerful contextual arguments; but then, I'm a top down thinker so always think that.

Anonymous RS June 01, 2015 10:43 AM  

OT: Update on women in the Army's Ranger School

... of the 8 of original 20 that recycled into the program, all 8 failed to graduate (but hey, 3 of those 8 were invited to try again!)

Of course, this obviously means that something is wrong with the standards: All 8 women fail Ranger School: Some Rangers say standards should change (+video) (click to follow)

Blogger Bruce Lewis June 01, 2015 10:57 AM  

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


source

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma June 01, 2015 10:59 AM  

Sy Rogers is fantastic. Heard him speak in person. He is very much a voice of God to address sexuality in the modern world. And the fact the he is a voice of God, proves that God has quite the sense of humor.

Anonymous Baseball Savant June 01, 2015 11:02 AM  

I thought this was a poppin tags post!?

Anonymous Gaydahr June 01, 2015 11:12 AM  

Calling homosexuality a birth defect changes the definition of "birth defect". Furthermore, being gay in no way prevents a person from passing on their genes. Finally, if it did, then you would rationally need to look for the Birth Defect that prompted a straight person to not have children.

Most important, VD, you've violated an important rule: if you are going to write for public consumption, don't write about something of which you are completely ignorant.

Blogger David-093 June 01, 2015 11:12 AM  

@Nate

"He was queer as a football bat... but it had nothing to do with him liking guys. He just couldn't stand putting up with women's bullshit"

I've read a few things in my time that were completely beyond my comprehension. Quantum mechanics, advanced economics, calculus, and the like. Somebody willfully prefering dudes over women is among them.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 11:14 AM  

e)Do you believe that homosexuality is a choice? Men can either love women or understand them.

indicates that a person who is gay can become straight by means of I know some guys that have gone str8 or gotten married to women, and a few dikes that have gotten married to men. For the dikes it seems like they broke free of feminism. If it was not pushed in schools I doubt there would be many lesbians. The guys ended up with women more feminine than the average gay guy(edge of the bell curve for American women). If boys were not abused there probably wouldn't be so many bottoms on the gay scene.

I think the truth about homosexuality, however complicated, would be a disaster for the LGBTQX crowd

I would say both sides don't want to know. Would leftists support abortions of future gay/lesbians? If it was not a choice how would churches address it

you don't love dick more than a 700 pound man loves doritos

GRapeRapeM likes Pringles more than doritos. I can be content with just one.

Me and David the Good have to back to that parody of guys buying cheap world war two rifles...

Mosins have their place, buried under the garden with a couple of spam cans in case the Bolsheviks try to recreate the Holodomor, or a zombie nigapocalypse

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 11:22 AM  

Somebody willfully prefering dudes over women is among them.

Women can be bleeding and moody for 8 days a month. Women don't get along with each other, even lesbian groups do the catty thing, Brigham Young keeping 51 women under one roof must have required a miracle.

I should probably post a link for the internet home for conservative gays that don't want more taken out of their paychecks just because LaTrina squatted out 21 illegitimate crack babies. http://www.gaypatriot.net/

Blogger automatthew June 01, 2015 11:22 AM  

You've got terrible reading comprehension, Gaydahr. Before you answer, try re-reading the post with your objections in mind.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2015 11:25 AM  

Everyone knows that the desire to put your penis in another man's anus is unnatural - I'm surprised their is even pushback on that one. I wonder what will happen if they ever do discover the "Gay Gene" and people get the option of aborting "Gay babies".

Blogger automatthew June 01, 2015 11:27 AM  

BGS: "Women don't get along with each other, even lesbian groups do the catty thing, Brigham Young keeping 51 women under one roof must have required a miracle."

That's a shallow understanding you've got there. It's women with bad character who can't get along, not women qua women. Modest women with strong husbands get along just fine.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2015 11:28 AM  

The questions the man ask are interesting, although I'm skeptical of the man's "I'm a little bid of this, and a little bit of that - Gosh, I'm just asking questions" introduction. 9/10 people like that are being disingenuous.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2015 11:30 AM  

"Women don't get along with each other"

Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men. Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men.

Anonymous JI June 01, 2015 11:37 AM  

Vox implied that "high cognitive capacity" is a congenital disorder these days, and he could be right about that. Scary. I think SJW-ness, the degree to which one has liberal/SJW tendencies, would be an even stronger predictor of the likelihood of having at least one child.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 11:39 AM  

Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men.

They might seem like they are cooperating but some are positioning to stab one another in the back. There is a term in corporate culture called the Crab Basket Effect, its basically women pretending to be nice to each other while pulling each other down.

Anonymous Scintan June 01, 2015 11:42 AM  

Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men. Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men.

You've either known almost no women, or almost no men, throughout the course of your lifetime. That, or trolling, is the only explanation for such a post as yours.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 11:46 AM  

I should warn you before you look up the Crab Basket Effect Men can either love women or understand them. there might not be any going back.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 01, 2015 11:50 AM  

@rcocean

Which is why women built the Pyramids, and the Roman Aqueducts, and the Hoover Dam, and the U.S. Interstate Highway System, and took a heteronormative cismale to the moon.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma June 01, 2015 11:54 AM  

BGS, I've heard it said — and had lesbian neighbors who illustrated the case — that evil men can turn women lesbian. Can evil women turn men gay? ;-)

Blogger Jourdan June 01, 2015 12:04 PM  

The key here is that gay folks have for a very long time been convinced that their sexuality was somehow different in nature than others, which is a real conceit
.
As Vox and others point out repeatedly here, I don’t think my gay friend’s desire for sex is greater than mine. If it’s greater than that felt by me when this Russian girl got on the Metro this morning, then God help them…..

There are two things going on here, I think:

First, as the Liberal Revolution promises unrestricted and equal access to everything we desire, that which we desire becomes our political identity, which raises a gay person from just another human being with sexual desire to a liberal political icon as their particular desire is still unacceptably beholden to restrictions.

Second, given the differences between the sexes, it is much easier for a gay man than a straight man to *easily* fulfill his sexual desires, thus giving the mistaken impression that a gay man’s sexuality is somehow stronger or more urgent than others’.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 12:10 PM  

that evil men can turn women lesbian. Can evil women turn men gay

First lesbians trying to avoid evil are making a mistake domestic violence in lesbian relationships are high.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/07/attack-of-the-killer-dykes/
" 45 per cent of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner and that 30 per cent of lesbians have reported sexual assault or rape by another woman."
While it is easy to blame bad women for turning men gay, they could always try to find the hidden masses of good women rcocean believes exists. I think they would have to at least be bi beforehand. Although I think trannies are mental, they think they could snag a str8 guy that would fall for them and not care when they found out it used to be a guy. They most certainly shouldn't be doing sex change operations with taxpayer subsidies.

Liberal Revolution ... raises a gay person from just another human being with sexual desire to a liberal political icon

Most gays think its free speech to have sex in graveyards, but hate speech to point out black & moslem crimes against gays.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 01, 2015 12:12 PM  

Brigham Young keeping 51 women under one roof must have required a miracle.

The more you learn about Game, women's herd behavior, social proof, pre-selection, and the way women will compete for a man they perceive as strong, it looks like the more women you have, the easier it gets.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 01, 2015 12:15 PM  

Sy Rogers is pretty incredible, if only because he did that for 50 minutes without a single notecard, a single stutter, a single "um", or even a sip of water.

Wow!

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 01, 2015 12:18 PM  

Correction: one note at 46m for a long quote. He barely uses it though.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2015 12:28 PM  

"Which is why women built the Pyramids, and the Roman Aqueducts,"

Which has nothing to do with 21st century America.

Blogger JDC June 01, 2015 12:32 PM  

What a powerful and well presented message...I'll be showing this to our H.S. youth group later this summer.

What really hit home for me (as well as encouraged me to continue as I have), is the "He won her heart first," argument. When people genuinely come to us (as Christians) seeking answers and guidance IMO the law is already working on their heart. We don't need to pile on more law, but gospel.

During the message he brought up the woman caught in adultery. What often gets brought up in this story is the, "He who is without sin," which is important. Recently (in preparing a sermon) I focused on Jesus' words to the woman. 1) Neither do I condemn you...2) Now...sin no more.

In the church we sometimes get that formula backwards. We require the sin to be "fixed" then offer non-condemnation from God. We either directly or indirectly indicate that a human righteousness must be achieved before entering the sanctuary. Jesus had another way.

Thank you for sharing this.

Anonymous Beau June 01, 2015 12:34 PM  

Do you know of any testimonial or historical evidence that indicates that a person who is gay can become straight by means of conversion, prayer, or worship of the Christian God?

Yes. I have seen this. I suggest you google Desert Stream ministries. These are people who are walking the walk.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 01, 2015 12:37 PM  

@rcocean

"Which has nothing to do with 21st century America."

As opposed to the statement you made that I was responding to?

You made statement, men aren't good at cooperation because they compete against each other.

I provided examples of large scale projects carried out by men that required they cooperate.

An obvious counter to that would to provide examples of large scale projects carried out by women that required cooperation.

Can you provide any?

Anonymous the bandit June 01, 2015 12:38 PM  

The "God Just Wants You To Be Happy" message that is prevalent in many churches

I like Sy Rogers's response to that: "There are two types of people in this world: people who think God is an idea and hope he will make them happy, and people who know God is a reality and live to make Him happy."

I'm still watching through the Rogers sermon, but it doesn't look like he's the same repentant former homosexual someone was telling me about last night. That person said that he actually did stop feeling the urges, but only after he forgave his father and the man who abused him as a child. I'm not implying that's a prescriptive formula, but I thought that was intriguing, given the general understanding around here as to what causes homosexuality.

Anonymous aviendha June 01, 2015 12:54 PM  

Thanks for sharing Sy. Born in the mid 70s he spoke to me and caused me to contemplate things I've never thought about before.

When someone is suffering usually its "I'm sorry [to hear that]". I've never thought about the root where it is that I 'value' you. You have value to me. How the root of many things taken for granted can be summarized as value, fear of value, etc.

As for his past behavior, willing to do anything for love 'including that'...for 10 minutes of feeling loved. Wow. I certainly will be thinking about that.

I'm trying to parse in my head how is that lack of love and willing to go through hell for a few minutes similar to women in abusive relationships. How does it rhyme with addiction(s)?

Great stuff.

Anonymous Orville June 01, 2015 12:54 PM  

It's interesting to watch Sy Rogers. He's fairly camp, and yet when he is speaking of the Word, his mannerisms and posture become more masculine and his voice becomes more assertive.

I have seen this only once in an evangelist who had 7 terminal diseases, but once in the pulpit he literally transformed in voice and stature. When he was done, it was like a light was turned out.

Blogger JDC June 01, 2015 1:10 PM  

FYI...I will be typing a manuscript of the sermon as well as an accompanying bible study. If anyone is interested in receiving a copy, just send me an email from the blogger tab. I will have it completed later this week.

Blogger RC June 01, 2015 1:12 PM  

@Orville: I have seen this before as well. The most memorable was an old man who was visiting my church nearly thirty years ago, a famous trumpet player. I do not remember his name unfortunately. My pastor recognized him and asked if he'd play. They sent out someone to his car to get his horn. He walked up to the stage slowly, like the ancient man that he was, but when he put his trumpet to his lips, fifty years fell off and he was amazing. When the song was done, the fifty years returned instantly. Fascinating, especially with a horn.

OpenID simplytimothy June 01, 2015 1:21 PM  

If that Sy Rogers is on the level (my sense from briefly watching the video is that he is) then he is a man's man. The Guy Upstairs made us different and here I tend to revert to the athletic analogies--sprinter, wrestler, gymnastic's, swimmers--but it is true in 'personality' or whatever it is that makes Sy express himself as he does.

When God shows up in a person, we sense Him there and we just get to enjoy the other person as they are without the baggage.

Note also Sy's severity and lack of compromise.

Thanks for posting the video.


Blogger macengr June 01, 2015 1:22 PM  

Nate -
Can you give a link to the ATF show with Stickwick - it sounds interesting!

Vox -
I don't always agree with your views on theology (is God omnipotent, the Trinity, etc.) but it always makes me stop and really think about what I believe. Thanks for that!

Blogger Guitar Man June 01, 2015 1:46 PM  

Glad to see you all discovered Sy Rogers. A good friend of mine, who used to be a practicing homosexual, introduced me to Sy a few years ago. The dude preaches like he doesn't care what others think of him.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 1:50 PM  

"Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men. Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men."

This is possibly the most idiotic thing anyone has said on all of the internet today.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 1:58 PM  

"Mosins have their place, buried under the garden with a couple of spam cans in case the Bolsheviks try to recreate the Holodomor, or a zombie nigapocalypse "

The proper place for Mosin's is helping homeless men defend their shopping carts.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 01, 2015 2:00 PM  

This is possibly the most idiotic thing anyone has said on all of the internet today.

I just assumed he forgot his sarcasm tags.

Blogger Markku June 01, 2015 2:00 PM  

This is possibly the most idiotic thing anyone has said on all of the internet today.

Considering I said something proves Calvinism today, that's some "strong meat" from Nate.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 2:03 PM  

"Nate -
Can you give a link to the ATF show with Stickwick - it sounds interesting!"

Go to my blog... bloggerblaster.blogspot.com

There is a link to the show at the top of the page... just remember.. its friday night... and everyone involved is drinking. The range of topics we cover in that two hours goes from dark matter... the nature of time / space time... gardening... .25acp vs .22 long rifle for human skull penetration... Putin vs Hitler.. Finnish soldiers shitting themselves during mock kidnappings...

its...

Ecclectic

Blogger Rabbi B June 01, 2015 2:11 PM  

"Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men.'

Just put my chest waders on, but they're starting to fill up.

Blogger wrf3 June 01, 2015 2:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger wrf3 June 01, 2015 2:15 PM  

BigGaySteve wrote: I would say both sides don't want to know. Would leftists support abortions of future gay/lesbians? If it was not a choice how would churches address it

It depends on the church. Those who hold to the doctrine whose name I dare not speak in this thread would say that man is responsible because the sovereign God says that we are responsible by divine fiat.

Other churches would say that since it isn't a choice it can't be wrong and therefore either Scripture is wrong, or our understanding of Scripture is wrong.

Other churches would go, "Huh? What?"

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 2:16 PM  

Steven Crowder and Milo Yiannopoulos Gay Conservative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzukiZkhGA0 I disagree with him about the gays being bleeding edge smart as I have meet lots of stupid guys. Its like saying all gays are rich by not counting the homeless gays in NYC/SF or saying gay parents that can throw away $50k to buy a kid are better parents than Latrina with her 21 crack babies.

The proper place for Mosin's is helping homeless men defend their shopping carts.

Nate goes down to the gun club with a print out of this, to post up that only gays own glocks and bury mosins in their garden. For the price of a good 308 you could get a dozen Mosin's with plenty of spam cans of ammo that you can hand out to people you trust after the zombie nigapocalypse.

Blogger Markku June 01, 2015 2:23 PM  

Nate goes down to the gun club with a print out of this, to post up that only gays own glocks and bury mosins in their garden.

The claim is not that only gays own Glock 9mm, it's that Glock 9mm is gay. It's like carrying a pink umbrella - it's either incongruent with who you are, or else it's very congruent. We don't know, we just see the pink umbrella.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) June 01, 2015 2:32 PM  

Christianity isn't Candyland, it is a very dark and terrible vision of a very scary place, of a universe that isn't merely indifferent to you, but is actively seeking to destroy you, body and soul.

Thank you for this quote, Vox.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 01, 2015 2:39 PM  

The claim is not that only gays own Glock 9mm, it's that Glock 9mm is gay.

If the zombie nigapocalypse happens and you run out of ammo, don't be mad that all the Tranny Biker Cannibal Raping Gangs you killed only had 9mm ammo on them along with blue helmets.

Blogger JDC June 01, 2015 2:42 PM  

So...

Since we're talking congruence here, I have a question regarding incompatibility...

If someone was riding a rice rocket, wearing a sea-foam mesh tank-top, and brandishing a Glock would this so-called 'gayness' be canceled out, lessened OR bolstered by the fact that they are from the south and dearly love SEC football?

I propose the latter, but of course, I am not an expert on such things.

Blogger Markku June 01, 2015 2:44 PM  

If the zombie nigapocalypse happens and you run out of ammo, don't be mad that all the Tranny Biker Cannibal Raping Gangs you killed only had 9mm ammo on them along with blue helmets.

Hey, I have a Mac too. But I can make it the idol on my altar of my desk, or I can put it away in an unnoticeable place and only fire it up when I absolutely have to program on it.

(It's the latter)

Blogger SirHamster (#201) June 01, 2015 3:09 PM  

Sy Rogers is pretty incredible, if only because he did that for 50 minutes without a single notecard, a single stutter, a single "um", or even a sip of water.

I'm listening to the video as I read the comments, and right as I read your comment, I heard a "you know" (filler) and "I-I ..." (stutter/false start). Did Toastmaster for a few years, so ear is trained to hear them.

Not that this takes away from him being a strong speaker. Strong content + God's Truth drowns out any small technical glitches a nitpicker might notice.

OpenID simplytimothy June 01, 2015 3:46 PM  

So...

Since we're talking congruence here, I have a question regarding incompatibility...

If someone was riding a rice rocket, wearing a sea-foam mesh tank-top, and brandishing a Glock would this so-called 'gayness' be canceled out, lessened OR bolstered by the fact that they are from the south and dearly love SEC football?


Mullet ?

Blogger Corvinus June 01, 2015 4:08 PM  

"Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men. Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men."

This is possibly the most idiotic thing anyone has said on all of the internet today.


"Misogynist:" A man who hates women as much as women hate women.

Blogger Rabbi B June 01, 2015 4:14 PM  

""Misogynist:" A man who hates women as much as women hate women."

Here is an enlightening comparison:

misogyny: 1. hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, or prejudice against women.

misandry: 1. a hatred of men

Both Merriam Webster definitions ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandrytions)

Why not simply "hatred of women" vs. "hatred of men"? Subtle, perhaps, but instructive.


Blogger rcocean June 01, 2015 5:05 PM  

"This is possibly the most idiotic thing anyone has said on all of the internet today."

Depends on what you *think* I said. Based on your prior comments, reading in context isn't your strong suit. I suppose if I wrote 'I just ran a six minute mile', you'd say that was idiotic because no one can run a 6 minute mile underwater.

Blogger Rabbi B June 01, 2015 5:10 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B June 01, 2015 5:11 PM  

". . . reading in context isn't your strong suit."

May not be mine either, then. What did you really mean?

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 5:12 PM  

""Most women get along with other women, much, much better than Most men get along with other men. Most women know how to cooperate, most men can only compete with other men.""

I think you said that. And then I think you defended it.

So do explain precisely what context I have missed.

Because honestly right we all think you're a giant idiot.

Blogger Ursus Maritimus Australialis June 01, 2015 5:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Student in Blue June 01, 2015 5:14 PM  

That linked video... at about minute 15 or thereabouts, where he's describing his childhood, I'm almost hearing him say "if only people accepted me the way I am, things would have been better!"

...which sounds almost exactly to me like "We just need more tolerance/acceptance and then we won't have little boys becoming gay."

Did anyone else come away with that interpretation?

Blogger Student in Blue June 01, 2015 5:15 PM  

I was imprecise, it's more 14:10-14:50.

Blogger Ursus Maritimus Australialis June 01, 2015 5:16 PM  

@Rabbi B - That is an interesting comparison.

Dictionary publishers really need to stop hiring people that change the definitions of words to mean whatever they want them to mean at any given point in time.

(Note to self: BBcode doesn't work here, use HTML formatting.)

Blogger JDC June 01, 2015 5:22 PM  

From about the 15 minute mark:
And where I grew up people expected little boys to act like it, but I was being raised by female influences. And therefore I unwittingly picked up their affect…just like you were not born with a Texas accent – it is learned and acquired from your environment when your brain is like wet concrete in childhood. You get the imprint absorbed from your community.

And therefore people didn’t understand where the affect and manner came from, and they began to judge me and criticize me, exclude me and then further exploit me and verbally and physically abuse me, because I guess they assumed that if I don’t measure up I don’t have value and deserve to be punished. At least that’s the way I viewed my world. I wonder what my life would have been like if somebody in school, a teacher, if somebody in church, a Sunday-school leader, could of looked beyond all of that and understood my need.

So…I grew up trying to be one of the guys. I was on swim team, I was on football team, I was an eagle scout, I had two motorcycles, I went dirt-bike riding… I could do anything any boy could do, but I would say to my dad and step-mother, “I might as well be gay, everyone else has turned in the verdict and I can’t win.” And that’s the power of words to tell you who you are.

_____________

I don't think he was advocating open tolerance or acceptance, but his wish that people had identified his true need - and that was to truly understand what a warped notion he had of himself and of what love truly was.

________________

He goes on to say this:

I came to the Lord very dirty and had to learn how to get clean. I came to the Lord very wounded, and I needed healing. I came to the Lord with an attitude of distrust towards Him. And He had to earn back trust which he graciously condescended to do. But I also came to the Lord hungry for love. The only kind of love I knew was of a sexual type. I was willing to trade off morality in the 10 minute sexual embrace because as Proverbs 27:7 says, “To the man who is well fed, dessert loses its seductive appeal. But to a person who is starving, even the bitter thing will taste sweet.”


Blogger Student in Blue June 01, 2015 5:25 PM  

@JDC

Right, so it's not "acceptance and tolerance!" but rather "realize I had a problem and deal with the source, rather than hammer on the symptoms"?

If that's the correct interpretation, that's something we need everywhere in medicine today too.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 01, 2015 5:26 PM  

Scintan and our resident Large Homosexual apparently both understand women far, far, better than rcocean.
I concur with you both, and sadly, BGS may also be right about the whole love or understand them.
It's damn hard to love them when you begin to understand them, but.... I have a (young and untested) theory that a lot of women are damaged at a young age by their own mothers. more so than they are by their own fathers or indeed than boys are.

I'd welcome the views of the ilk on this.

Blogger JDC June 01, 2015 5:30 PM  

I'm almost done with the manuscript, and for me, the fulcrum of his serrmon is found here.

I had to re-learn what is love, and the reason that matters is because pop-culture cannot tell me what love is, it can only point out the fact I want it. But it is not the originator of it, God is. And if God is love, and I’m to love Him above all things and love my neighbor as myself, and the world will now I’m God’s by the way I love, I had better be clear on the definition from the God point of view.

Aligning oneself with God's point of view, inviting people to walk with God, approaching people in love and truth and beckoning them to "Come and see this Jesus." It makes evangelism rather simple really when one puts it into this perspective.

Sorry for the unnecessary wordiness - I feel inspired, but I now promise I will shut it. Besides...the sun's going down and the walleye itch beckons...(and no, that is not an STD, at least not one I'm aware of).

Anonymous Giuseppe June 01, 2015 5:34 PM  

Which has nothing to do with 21st century America.

The red ant can carry multiples of its own bodyweight with ease.
I mean if we're just going to dodge the facts by using non sequiturs, let's at least talk about ants, which unlike gamma/sjw behaviour, are at least somewhat interesting.

Blogger DJ | AMDG June 01, 2015 5:43 PM  

"There is a reason that Christianity is described as the hard and narrow path. It's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy." - Mat 7:13

I've also come to accept this and have stopped trying to reconcile it to Mat 11:28-30. Yet, I still recognize that these things can both be true, but I struggle to experience that. Can you please comment on that seeming contradiction?

Anonymous Giuseppe June 01, 2015 5:46 PM  

Oh, and I had not read as far as Nate's precise explanation of rcocean's comment. Spot on.

Ona different note Nate, you going to gay Paree? (Paris)

Blogger Rabbi B June 01, 2015 5:50 PM  

@DJ AMDG

What would you rather carry on your shoulders in this world? The weight of your sin or the light and momentary troubles that accompany a Godly life? Troubles and trials which produce in us priceless riches that a life of ease and comfort could never produce in a thousand lifetimes. I much prefer His yoke and the privilege of sharing in His sufferings than the yoke of sin and death and the disgrace of living my life as if it was my own.

He paid a debt He didn't owe and that we could never pay, the least we could do is take the life that we have been given and dedicate it back to Him all of our days - come what may. We will have trouble in this world, but take heart, He has overcome the world.

Anonymous Andrew June 01, 2015 6:07 PM  

You say "team Calvin". Do you mean pre-mil? If not, I don't get the allusion

Blogger Hermit June 01, 2015 6:25 PM  

About homosexuality I'm convinced the "born this way" argument was only a clever move to make people see homosexuality natural and acceptable in the long run, now they're showing their true face with the gender theory.
It was really all about gender nihilism and infinite manipulability of the huma nature.
The "born this way" theory was only a useful tool, now they'll be pushing the "cis people discover your gay side". They'll teach kids in schools that sexual preferences can change and anyone should experiment.
Looking at Sodom it was pretty clear in the Bible that homosexuality is a sexual perversion and thus also a choice, to sin you need the will to sin and an illness can't be a sin.
Promiscuity breeds homosexuality in a culture, so it was in Sodom and so it is today.

That said we do not have full control on our thoughts and our mind: there are people who have homosexuals preferences but do not accept them. A chaste homosexual that resist his temptations is not a sinner.
I'm sure we would find a lot of chaste homosexuals who lived in the grace of God if we could look. After all the struggle against lust is the same for all people.

"Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."
A perfect christian must be ready to sacrifice everything if necessary, not only his life but also his personality.

Blogger Nate June 01, 2015 6:26 PM  

I will not be in Paris. There are plenty of urban shitholes on this continent if I want to see... And smell... That.

Anonymous BGS June 01, 2015 6:39 PM  

I have a (young and untested) theory that a lot of women are damaged at a young age by their own mothers.

On that Steven Crowder/ Milo Yiannopoulos video I linked, Milo say for all intents and purposes lesbians didn't exist until feminists used peer pressure to create them.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) June 01, 2015 6:44 PM  

I've also come to accept this and have stopped trying to reconcile it to Mat 11:28-30. Yet, I still recognize that these things can both be true, but I struggle to experience that. Can you please comment on that seeming contradiction?

If you've been following Vox's various SJW/Rabbitology posts, you'll note that that tribe is organized is around mass approval; anyone has the power to denounce and Other you; so you must work hard to always conform to the shifting "consensus", whatever that is. In many ways, that is the way of the world. Lies upon lies in a shifting rat race for approval.

God offers his yoke as an alternative. While it is a yoke and hard in its own way, it is simple and unchanging. Jesus, who offers the yoke, is gentle and compassionate and gives us strength in our weakness; unlike the faithless disloyal warren who feed upon the weak.

Christianity is a paradox - hard, yet easy. Die, that you may live. Even if the understanding is not yet complete, is it not true? We can test it, and find that God spoke truth.

Anonymous BGS June 01, 2015 6:45 PM  

"I will not be in Paris. There are plenty of urban shitholes on this continent if I want to see... And smell... That. "

I was last in Paris in the 90s and the blacks where revolting at the time. The news coverage of all the cars burning looks like it has only gotten worse.

@Giuseppe How bad are London & Dublin now I have not been there since the late 90s?

Blogger DJ | AMDG June 01, 2015 7:02 PM  

OT:

But funny and somewhat relevant nonetheless.

http://www.theonion.com/article/open-minded-man-grimly-realizes-how-much-life-hes--19273

Anonymous Andrew Spooner Jr. June 01, 2015 7:18 PM  

Thanks for turning me on to Sy Rodgers. He puts a lot of the things I've been trying to express for years into words I haven't been able to get across. Particularly his insight into transgender disorders rings particularly true for me, as I was in a similar position as him when I was younger, though I never lived a homosexual lifestyle.

Anonymous Baseball Savant June 01, 2015 7:42 PM  

Just check my pocket, only got 20 dollars.

Blogger automatthew June 01, 2015 8:22 PM  

Giuseppe: Yes, it's the mothers.

In every instance where I have knowledge of a troubled family, the mother is at the heart of it. In most, the father is a decent, puzzled man.

Anonymous dc red dogs June 01, 2015 11:36 PM  

giuseppe, automatthew - I wish you were correct, because if you were people would be better than they are. However, the Bible teaches us that the sinfulness of mankind is not restricted to one group, or one sex, or one race. Decent, puzzled men may exist in their millions, but if they are mating with women who are less than decent and can't be bothered to be puzzled, then your precious and decent and puzzled men are clearly choosing selfishly and poorly and probably sinfully with respect to the parents of their children. (The details in the Bible on this subject begin with the lecherous foolishness of Abraham as described in Genesis and end with the similar foolishness of the progressive hordes in Revelation. Abraham is only a saint because he repented).

Blogger rho June 02, 2015 4:20 AM  

As for the issues of God's inclination and ability to address orientational temptation, I think you would be much better off listening to this man on the subject than to me

Blogger Iowahine June 02, 2015 8:50 AM  

Women are damaged - by the first mother - Eve, and her curse passed on to us. We are become less damaged when we submit to the Lord, His leadership, and that of our husbands.

Blogger wwarriorr wwarriorr June 02, 2015 2:58 PM  

I think being gay is not a big deal, sure is not normal per se, but it happens in nature, meaning is like blindness for example, if being blind is not a sin, apparently defying your sense of vision, then neither should be being in love with the sex you are not supposed to be with.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 02, 2015 3:29 PM  

Wwarriorr, your thinking is as disjointed as your run-on sentence. What happens in nature? While I've seen livestock of the same sex occasionally ride each other, that's the result of one being in heat and others getting fired up by the pheromones and not finding the right target at first. It's clearly dysfunctional -- the males are trying to find the female in heat to have sex with -- and I can assure you none of them are "in love."

What the heck are you talking about?

By the way, you probably shouldn't use your blindness analogy around homosexuals, because obviously if we could cure congenital blindness,we would, so that makes you a bigot spreading hate-facts.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 03, 2015 4:50 AM  

I take back everything I thought (and the one thing I wrote) about you being coy about what you actually believed. Clearly, where it matters you are entirely straightforward, clear and thorough.

I apologise for my error.

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