ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, June 18, 2015

Mailvox: customer care fail

A Vile Faceless Minion sent me this:
Your message

   To: Nielsen Hayden, Patrick
   Subject: Irene Gallo's comments regarding the Sad Puppies and Tor authors.

 was deleted without being read
That's the only response anyone has received. Furthermore, John Scalzi, Stephen Brust, David Gerrold, and Laura Resnick are all proclaiming that Tor Books is as indifferent about continuing to sell books to their unhappy customers as they are, and PNH's refusal to even read email from Tor's customers does appear to accurately reflect that indifference.

It's certainly a novel approach to selling books. We'll see how well it works out for them.

Especially in light of how Macmillan's Compliance Officer is not ignoring the emails sent to her.
Your message

   To: Brown, Rhonda
   Subject: Regarding comments from TOR senior employees

 was read
It's certainly an interesting contrast. Whether it is meaningful or not, we'll find out soon enough.

Labels: ,

99 Comments:

Blogger Achillea June 18, 2015 10:23 AM  

I'm disappointed to hear about Brust, having very much enjoyed his books, especially the Vlad Taltos series. Still, if he doesn't want my money, that can easily be arranged.

Blogger jayb June 18, 2015 10:23 AM  

I thought you said they always lie? Look! Honesty from PNH. Looks like you're losing the moral high ground in this war, Mr Day.

Blogger GK Chesterton June 18, 2015 10:32 AM  

I just don't get it. Honestly, I can't imagine being that dumb. I haven't sent a letter or emailed photos (and yes I have Tor books...going back to those given to me from my father's purchases) simply because like at the beginning of puppies it seemed like too much. Then they talk...and don't stop. Do they realize how mad that is making some of us? How they are motivating us far more than you could?

Blogger Blume June 18, 2015 10:32 AM  

Do you have a link to brust's comments? I would like to send him a picture of my book collection of his.

Blogger VD June 18, 2015 10:35 AM  

Apparently the sad puppies are planning to boycott Tor, my publisher. I'm scared. Oh, wait, no I'm not.
— Steven Brust (@StevenBrust) June 17, 2015

Anonymous JI June 18, 2015 10:37 AM  

I don't care if a boycott is declared or not. I just won't buy any Tor books until VD writes something along the lines of, "Gee, Tor is a great publisher that respects its customers and authors."

Anonymous Nathan June 18, 2015 10:38 AM  

"Do they realize how mad that is making some of us? How they are motivating us far more than you could?"

Of course not, we don't exist as anything more than electronic sheep for a single rogue hacker. We're not people. People agree with Tor.

Anonymous Anonymous June 18, 2015 10:39 AM  

can you really blame him? why would anyone bother reading botmail? lol

-AmicusC

Blogger Chris June 18, 2015 10:43 AM  

After all "bots" don't buy books, people buy books. They will see which are which.

Anonymous Stilicho June 18, 2015 10:44 AM  

I'll just have to not buy any more of Brust's books from any publisher. Too bad, I enjoyed the Taltos books (except for the one "Teckla" where he brutally sacrificed story on the altar of socialist message).

Anonymous Steve June 18, 2015 10:47 AM  

Apparently the sad puppies are planning to boycott Tor, my publisher. I'm scared. Oh, wait, no I'm not.
— Steven Brust (@StevenBrust) June 17, 2015


"That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age."

Anonymous JN June 18, 2015 10:48 AM  

Bold Strategy

Blogger Blume June 18, 2015 10:48 AM  

More on the alter of the death of his marriage.

Blogger Alexander June 18, 2015 10:51 AM  

I'm feeling charitable today:

Rabbits, CHORFS, Puppy Kickers, guy who lurks here on behalf of Whatever;

I am not going to Worldcon this year. Already got my summer plans lined up, thanks, and after two years of working at DragonCon I've seen enough men in pony costumes and retards who feel the need to spend three minutes bumbling through a personal story they want to share with Harry Turtledove during question time to know that I need a break.

I imagine, for any number of reasons, most of the Ilk, Dread Ilk, Vile Faceless Minions, and the Silent Lurking Majority of Vox Day Readers will also not be attending.

Now you have two ways to play that. You can all either go to a convention which despite the award ceremony will probably be entirely pro-SJW. You'll go to your panels and talk among yourselves, enjoy a pizza or three, and generally have a good time doing whatever it is y'all normally do at your con in an ordinary year.

In which case, while the Hugos have become a battleground, you'll still hold a significant part of the turf that nobody cares to battle you for.

Orrrrrrrrr...
You could go to WorldCon, go to the business meeting and throw up a bunch of road block proposals aimed at shutting out Puppy votes. Then you could take to twitter and publicly gloat about how it's obvious based on attendance who the 'true fans' are. How Puppies talk big are afraid to show up against the popular front in person. Maybe some vendor will have some anti-puppy shirts you can all post on instagram. Maybe you can have another vendor thrown out of the hall.

If you do that, then I for one will enjoy seeing you in Kansas City. I suspect it won't be alone. And if we have to deal with bullshit like voting down some stupid 4/6 slate or whatnot, then expect counter voting proposals that cause as much Sturm und Drang as the nomination process did this year.

Anonymous Leonidas June 18, 2015 10:56 AM  

— Steven Brust (@StevenBrust) June 17, 2015

Who?

Anonymous The other robot June 18, 2015 10:58 AM  

I don't care if a boycott is declared or not.

I won't buy any new books until they publish Kratman!

Blogger Corvinus June 18, 2015 11:00 AM  

and PNH's refusal to even read email from Tor's customers does appear to accurately reflect that indifference.

Don't you get it? Tor is a Starbucks-style post-profit corporation!

Anonymous The other robot June 18, 2015 11:00 AM  

I won't buy any new Tor books until they publish Kratman!

FIFM

Blogger luagha June 18, 2015 11:01 AM  

Was kind of annoyed at Brust's last Drageara book that I read. Set up a huge thing about eavesdropping on the routine psychic communication that the people in the books use, and right when he could have done something interesting or profound or societally-upheaving that -gasp- would have had messaging relevance, he turned it into a heist-movie kind of ending where everything plays out according to plan.

Reasonably fun books, but he is not on the 'buy used, send money to author' list like Gene Wolfe and John C. Wright.

Blogger Corvinus June 18, 2015 11:03 AM  

I thought you said they always lie? Look! Honesty from PNH. Looks like you're losing the moral high ground in this war, Mr Day.

@jayb
Don't be an idiot. That was a message sent to the Minion by his e-mail program, which apparently has the ability to tell if an outgoing e-mail is read or not.

Blogger pdwalker June 18, 2015 11:14 AM  

@Corvinus,

Specifically, that looks like the message generated by MS Exchange Server when an unread message is deleted and read receipts are requested on the original message.

A quick viewing of the headers on the original message would show if that is the case.

Anonymous The other robot June 18, 2015 11:15 AM  

Don't be an idiot. That was a message sent to the Minion by his e-mail program, which apparently has the ability to tell if an outgoing e-mail is read or not.

Yes, some email programs have the ability to ask for a Read Receipt, etc.

Some could even ask for your email to be deleted before others read it.

It used to be funny in corporate environments to read an embarrassing email from someone and then to find a delete request for that email in your inbox.

Blogger Alexander June 18, 2015 11:16 AM  

So it seems like what you're saying is that an automated program designed by Microsoft is inherently more honest than the top level employees at Tor.

Anonymous Thuvia June 18, 2015 11:16 AM  

Brust's latest books were boring. I stopped buying and now skim through library copies. Too bad. The only Tor hardcovers I have are earlier books in the Jhereg series.

Blogger Rabbi B June 18, 2015 11:26 AM  

"So it seems like what you're saying is that an automated program designed by Microsoft is inherently more honest than the top level employees at Tor."

Nice one. +1

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 18, 2015 11:26 AM  

The email that got read was mine. I set the read receipts for precisely this reason.

Anonymous zen0 June 18, 2015 11:36 AM  

I was hoping for a mole update from Peter Grant but not so far.

Did anyone get aknowledgement from MacMillan?

Blogger jayb June 18, 2015 11:44 AM  

[Adjusts Sarcasmeter]

So, what you're telling me is that Tor have responded with 250% more words than Macmillan? How can you fault such commitment to open communication and positive public relations?

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 18, 2015 11:51 AM  

Confucius say, man with allergy to bee sting should not stick generative organ into hornet's nest.

Blogger Student in Blue June 18, 2015 11:55 AM  

@jayb
[Adjusts Sarcasmeter]

Nnnnope. Still not coming through clear. I'm afraid you're still within the Poe frequencies, either adjust up or down.

Blogger RobertT June 18, 2015 11:56 AM  

What could be simpler than a company policy statement that "we don't discriminate against anyone of any belief, and we value every customer equally?" Then fire everyone who doesn't agree with that. What is stopping this commercial enterprise from this path of least resistance?

Blogger darkdoc June 18, 2015 11:57 AM  

The Hillary defense.

Just ignore, wait, don't answer questions or respond to requests. Eventually everyone tires, and something else comes along to catch peoples attention.

But companies still need money to survive. Maybe every SJW buys three books of every author to cancel our boycott.

Anonymous Jay June 18, 2015 11:57 AM  

Expected reaction from Brust. The early Vlad Taltos books are fantastic, he is a very creative author and writes each one in a different style. That said, it is at 14 of a planned 19 books and is losing steam. He is a self proclaimed trotskyist sympathiser so pretty much a typical SJW.
Boycott seems to be the first thing for SJWs to do. We seem rather more forgiving in differentiating between a man and his work.
When do you stop paying for the ammunition they are going to use for your firing squad?

Blogger RobertT June 18, 2015 11:58 AM  

This could be a front row seat to corporate hara kiri.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 18, 2015 11:59 AM  

[Adjusts Sarcasmeter]
"Nnnnope ... I'm afraid you're still within the Poe frequencies"

Now that is some high quality snark right there. Well done.

Blogger jayb June 18, 2015 12:01 PM  

[Adjusts Up]

I can't even...

Blogger Corvinus June 18, 2015 12:01 PM  

So it seems like what you're saying is that an automated program designed by Microsoft is inherently more honest than the top level employees at Tor.

Yup.

And btw, I'm pretty sure "So what you're saying is..." is not Gamma if the other person said something so blatantly stupid and you're honestly boiling it down to the gist of what they're saying. I find myself using that phrase quite a bit with unbelievably ignorant progs.

A good example is right here. Some prog tried to seriously support the idea that the early Christians had gay marriage.

Me: Heh. So you're saying that a freaking bishop who studied the religion for years, who lived only 400 years from the time of Christ, doesn't know anything about what early Christians believed about homosexual perversion, but a postchristian academic in the 21st century does. That's a good one.

SJW tard: Yes of course the historians of today now more. where do you think someone who's only means of travel was an ass or a camel could gather historical documents art works and other objects? Do you think that the bishop had accesses to the methods of excavation that we have today. I could go on all day naming the methods that modern day historians have available to them to day to gather facts. Do you think that they knew more about dinosaurs, lost cities, the stone age and so on then we know now because they lived closer to the time. For god sake most people still thought that the world was flat back then. Again Face Palm.

Blogger Daniel June 18, 2015 12:12 PM  

"Yes of course the historians of today now more." is a wonderful quote. Nice to see a typo that unintentionally alters a false statement into one that is true. Historians of today not only now more than before some earlier historians...they now more than ever before! It may be the only factor that makes their body of current research historic in any way. First time for everything...

Blogger Jack Aubrey June 18, 2015 12:29 PM  

The callously-deleted-without-reading email was mine; you can imagine the feelbadz this caused me. I am still recuperating but there is no Safe Space here at the office. I will be on pins and needles the rest of the day I can tell you. Where's my Xanax?

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 18, 2015 12:29 PM  

Don't you get it? Tor is a Starbucks-style post-profit corporation!

Good call.

Although I am surprised that Teresa's power-bottom even bothered to delete them them.

Blogger jay c June 18, 2015 12:38 PM  

Steven Brust
@StevenBrust
I am a Practical Ontologist. Opinions expressed here are fully backed by Tor Publishing on all counts. No, really.


Interesting.

Anonymous Huckleberry (#87) -- est. 1977 June 18, 2015 12:40 PM  

Your message

To: Nielsen Hayden, Patrick
Subject: Irene Gallo's comments regarding the Sad Puppies and Tor authors.

was deleted without being read


You forwarded this to Tom Doherty and Macmillan, right?

Anonymous Scintan June 18, 2015 12:43 PM  

Did people honestly expect PNH to read the emails? If I could pick just one person over at TOR/MacMillan that I'd expect would not read them, he'd be that one person.

Blogger VD June 18, 2015 12:47 PM  

Did people honestly expect PNH to read the emails?

No. But it told me what I wanted to know about him.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 18, 2015 12:56 PM  

I don't care if a boycott is declared or not. I just won't buy any Tor books until VD writes something along the lines of, "Gee, Tor is a great publisher that respects its customers and authors."

I don't care what VD says about it, unless he's just scooping the news. I have no intention of giving Tor any of my business until they start catering to my needs. They've installed a team that doesn't care about me as a customer, has deliberately pushed works that I dislike, has deliberately marginalized works that I do, and then went out of their way to insult me.

My direction with regards to Tor depends on what Tor does, not on what VD does.

Anonymous Chuckles June 18, 2015 1:11 PM  

Your message

To: Nielsen Hayden, Patrick
Subject: Irene Gallo's comments regarding the Sad Puppies and Tor authors.

was deleted without being read

You forwarded this to Tom Doherty and Macmillan, right?"

No, but it should be forwarded to McMillan Compliance Officer Rhonda brown, who DOES read email communications...

Blogger Rek. June 18, 2015 1:11 PM  

I don't really keep track of the GG or Tor saga. Never been much of a SF/F enthusiast. Just a distant glance at the SJWist opposition.

In this case I have to ask, are SJWs, in this case PNH, that stupid? I can't get how these guys go about communicating, thinking, strategizing, doing things, living, let alone offer a convincing opposition. Either that or they've been completly hijacked by their emotions.

Blogger Danby June 18, 2015 1:25 PM  

Either that or they've been completely hijacked by their emotions.

That is the essence of being a cultural leftist. Some thoughts make them itchy, so they don't go there. Some thoughts come from badthinkers. Badthinkers are rejected by the collective, so best not to go there. Some thoughts are literally unthinkable. What was it the sissy faggot Chu said, as a leftist he has to mindkill himself every day? Which he explained as meaning deliberately removing any thoughts from his consciousness that are not approved by the collective.

These guys have been trained, and have trained themselves, to react with panic whenever rational thought enters their heads.

Blogger Quizzer W June 18, 2015 1:34 PM  

39. Jack Aubrey,

Take care of yourself. You might want to "block" everybody until you can get home. It is a well-known fact that if you are microaggressed more than once a day then you can get triggered, and triggering leads to badfeel, and badfeel leads to, well, more badfeel. The next thing you'll find yourself doing is shopping at a CVS trying to use a rock for a coupon.

I'll be praying for you :-)

Anonymous Beau June 18, 2015 1:46 PM  

Did anyone get aknowledgement from MacMillan?

I did, to my original email:

Subject: Store: Cancel Order Request

Name : Beau
Phone :
Store : MPS website (Macmillan, TOR, Palgrave, Iclicker, Bedford, Freeman, and Worth) Order #:

Reason : Irene Gallo's insults of her authors Kevin Anderson and John Wright and her slurs against sci-fi readers have crystallized my decision to cease buying Tor books. I will encourage others to do the same. You have a serious problem with senior management at Tor. I hope you clean house quickly.


The reply was polite and professional:

Beau,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We will forward your email to the appropriate department for consideration.

We appreciate your interest in Macmillan Publishers.


With Best Regards,

Macmillan Customer Relations

Anonymous mistaben June 18, 2015 2:54 PM  

I can see why your email got their attention, Beau. Nice.

Blogger Jason June 18, 2015 3:52 PM  

Somebody get Jack a room full of puppies stat!

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 18, 2015 3:52 PM  

Maybe but doubtful emails were not read. I suggest all emails regarding this matter were read and the staff had a 2 to 3 hour meeting over the content.

Blogger Jason June 18, 2015 3:55 PM  

Somebody get Jack a room full of puppies stat!

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 3:59 PM  

I called Macmillan 5 minutes ago and spoke with Rhonda Brown , She said they had received the emails and had not yet determined what to say or even if to respond. She was very accommodating and nice. I explained it was mind boggling that an employee even on her own facebook would trash their customers. She did not agree or disagree, Just took my comment and said it would be delivered and thanked me for the call

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 4:01 PM  

So they were received and Macmillan does know about them. Understand that Tor is being trashed by those of us that took offense at being called racist etc and those who took offense at Tom Doherty failing to back Ms Gallo completely. It really is not an enviable position

Anonymous GreyS June 18, 2015 4:02 PM  

I've never read Brust, and there's zero chance I will now. As an author, he should be ashamed of himself for not supporting other authors, let alone the ones who are Tor-affiliated.

To me, this is the worst part of Gallo's insults and PNH's entrenched dismissiveness-- throwing authors under the bus. I could see being a bit paranoid about VD and the ilk, but to treat authors you work for this way is disgustingly unprofessional. Brust is effectively giving the finger to fellow authors and potential Tor authors and saying "I'm already favored. F--- those who aren't."

Anonymous mistaben June 18, 2015 4:03 PM  

RAH...Mr. Heinlein, is that you?

And if you can comment here, where the heck are Bane and OutlawX?

Blogger Salt June 18, 2015 4:10 PM  

@RAH

Okay, Macmillan is the deer caught in the headlights. Tells me they're getting it from both sides. Not an enviable position. They really do need to think it through.

Blogger Salt June 18, 2015 4:13 PM  

@Beau

Now, that would be a way to get their attention. Order a book through Macmillan, do bots order books?, then cancel.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 4:16 PM  

No I am that great but my handle for years has been for RA Heinlein. Macmillan takes calls just not before 8 30 or after 5

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 18, 2015 4:17 PM  

Brust has been mentioned here before, if I recall.

Yeah, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx7fjpe4xvg

Blogger VD June 18, 2015 4:20 PM  

Okay, Macmillan is the deer caught in the headlights. Tells me they're getting it from both sides. Not an enviable position. They really do need to think it through.

Of course they do. And the most important thing they need to think about is why they are in this position and who put them there. At the end of the day, Gallo is merely a singular problem. PNH is a systemic one.

Anonymous Nathan June 18, 2015 4:21 PM  

As crazy as it sounds, I'd have settled for the same type of "promotion" (actually a demotion) that Sam "Bring Back Bullying" Biddle got from Gawker. But the two leaks combined with Feder as a loose cannon, make a strong argument that Tor leadership has insulated itself in an echo chamber hugbox. Had Tor even done as much as "we understand you're upset, but disagree with you," it would have mollified the crowd. But by saying that the people who where upset by her comments didn't actually exist, as both leaks have said, Tor's provoked even more anger and deservedly so. Unfortunately, if a sacrifice is required, I doubt it'll be PNH.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 4:22 PM  

Also Macmillan is the parent but TOR has a lot of autonomy . This has to handle diplomatically. I am sure that management is going to try to reduce the social media presence of PNH and Irene to blandness.

Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good. A personal apology to Mr Wright will probably be needed in writing To get her to knuckle to do gracious letter will take a while. She really did not make a mistake she believes in the righteousness of her cause.
Now I have no idea if PNH is good or not But he is a senior editor and probably hard to muscle into reducing his caustic comments.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 4:25 PM  

Macmillan # 646 307 5151 then press 9 and then enter Brown. But be nice and polite

Anonymous NateM June 18, 2015 4:27 PM  

And i'm sure PNH will hold this up as him being uncompromising and SP/RP's being whiny babies too. The delusion runs so deep

Blogger VD June 18, 2015 4:32 PM  

Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good.

Doesn't matter. Macmillan should not want anyone that unprofessional in a senior position. She should be MORE accountable than a McDonald's fry cook, not less.

But he is a senior editor and probably hard to muscle into reducing his caustic comments.

Then why on Earth would you ever want to keep him around? We're not going away. This situation only exists because of him. And he's only going to make the situation worse over time.

Blogger Chiva June 18, 2015 4:50 PM  

Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good.

Everybody is replaceable. A few times in my career I have seen the person a company thinks irreplaceable is the exact one that needs to be replaced.

Blogger luagha June 18, 2015 4:50 PM  

Irene Gallo does not have to personally apologize to John C. Wright. (She already has, albeit with a version of the standard non-apology apology, and her apology was accepted.) She has to graciously apologize to everyone she has insulted, and that she has not done.

To prove that her apology is genuine, she must then resign to acknowledge her position. Then everyone who was insulted will not carry their grudge to anyone in the field who dares to hire her for, say, freelance work.

Blogger Salt June 18, 2015 4:54 PM  

My question to TOR is, if you do not stand behind your authors, even to congratulating them upon being HUGO nominated, why have you not cut them loose? How does it serve anyone best interests for TOR personnel to work with people they hate?

Blogger John Wright June 18, 2015 5:10 PM  

"A personal apology to Mr Wright will probably be needed in writing "

No. No apology is needed to me. You all were the ones she insulted.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 18, 2015 5:17 PM  

39. Jack Aubrey
The callously-deleted-without-reading email was mine; you can imagine the feelbadz this caused me. I am still recuperating but there is no Safe Space here at the office. I will be on pins and needles the rest of the day I can tell you. Where's my Xanax?
----------

Oh no! Sound General Trigger Warning and tranny the fainting couches.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 5:45 PM  

I spent a bit of time on File 770 earlier tried to be tactful and civil. Despite calling them non puppies as some suggested or happy kittens, I evidently offended Peace. Of course I said her taking offense is her problem. But others chimed in and said I was being offensive. Had to sign off . Work you know.
I have to say that it more pleasant here . At least you accept some disagreement

Blogger Migly June 18, 2015 6:00 PM  

RAH: I just reviewed your comments from today and I didn't see anything offensive.

As you said yourself in the very first one, no one is ever persuaded by internet arguments, however, it's valuable for people to be reminded there's more than one way to look at things.

Blogger automatthew June 18, 2015 6:05 PM  

Brilliant idea: after Gallo gets fired, Castalia House offers her freelance work.

Anonymous Bz June 18, 2015 6:13 PM  

"Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good."

Oh, she's no nobel prize winner. And modern organizations fire those when they say something that might be seen as hurtful, without compunction. She's just a senior employee with a big mouth and no sense, and there are dozens of art grads who would do an equal or better job just a phone call away. Let's keep a sense of perspective here.

Blogger Dexter June 18, 2015 6:13 PM  

Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good.

For values of "being good at your job" that include "shitting all over your customers"...

Blogger James Dixon June 18, 2015 6:48 PM  

> Although I am surprised that Teresa's power-bottom even bothered to delete them them.

Tor probably has an IT department. He probably had someone from IT set up a rule to delete the messages automatically when received.

Blogger MendoScot June 18, 2015 7:00 PM  

At least you accept some disagreement

Accept? We gorge on disagreement. It can be in your face, couched in Socratic dialogue, or linked to clips and songs on YouTube.

Pick your style, then bring it on.

And learn.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 18, 2015 7:15 PM  

78. Dexter June 18 Irene is good at her job. TOR does not want to lose an employee that good.

For values of "being good at your job" that include "shitting all over your customers"...

79. James Dixon > Although I am surprised that Teresa's power-bottom even bothered to delete them them.

Umm, what's Teresa's power-bottom? (cring)

Anonymous ticticboom June 18, 2015 7:21 PM  

@Forrest:

PNH. You could Google power bottom but I don't recommend it.

Blogger Lockestep June 18, 2015 8:03 PM  

I get the urge to boycott, but what have Neal Asher or David Weber or John Wight done to deserve it? Other than taking a paycheck from the same people who give Gallo a check? I agree with the sentiment but not with the execution.

Blogger beerme #0183 June 18, 2015 8:10 PM  

I get the urge to boycott, but what have Neal Asher or David Weber or John Wight done to deserve it? Other than taking a paycheck from the same people who give Gallo a check? I agree with the sentiment but not with the execution.

Buy used. Send money to tip jar on author's web page. You and author win, Tor loses.

Traditionally published authors are typically only paid royalties semiannually, so you are getting the author money faster than you would by buying the book new.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 8:22 PM  

Reality is not acknowledged over there

Anonymous zen0 June 18, 2015 9:19 PM  

> Buy used. Send money to tip jar on author's web page. You and author win, Tor loses.

Does anyone know what the author share is of the retail price? They should get at least that.

Blogger RAH June 18, 2015 9:29 PM  

Migly , thanks for the acknowledgment. I thought I as being reasonable. No insults and name calling.like they use. But though it engendered 750 comment thread , I doubt I made any headway.

Anonymous Feh June 18, 2015 11:19 PM  

I get the urge to boycott, but what have Neal Asher or David Weber or John Wight done to deserve it?

Lockestep the Retard in 1941:

"I get the urge to boycott Germany, but what have Ford, Standard Oil, ITT, and Chase done to deserve the pain such a boycott would cause them?"

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 19, 2015 12:21 AM  

Thank you, ticticboom. I took your advice.

Blogger Daniel June 19, 2015 12:28 AM  

Don't call yourself Lockestep, Lockestep. And stand down. Your concern has been noted.

Blogger John Wright June 19, 2015 2:05 AM  

"I get the urge to boycott, but what have Neal Asher or David Weber or John Wight done to deserve it?"

I worked with a company that does not have my back.

If my sales fall due to Irene Gallo, then bookstores will be unwilling to stock my books. If Tor is not sharply reminded that the customer is always right, my loss is worse and longer than anything a boycott produces.

Honor is eternal; money is not.

You may always click my tipjar on my webpage to pay for any books of mine you read without buying during the boycott.

My sale records are Tor will nonetheless suffer, but one does not fight the invisible powers ruling this fallen world without taking losses in the areas, like money, which the world esteems, and I do not.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 19, 2015 2:48 AM  

@Lockestep Go and tell that to the good volk at File 666 or whatever its called.

They will laud and praise you highly for not letting silly things like principles or morality get in the way of your own selfish, instant gratification.

Oh, and don't forget to feed your cats. Remember, you're only one missed meal away from having your face eaten of when the hypo- hits!

Blogger SirThermite June 19, 2015 3:21 AM  

Thank you for sharing your perspective, Mr. Wright, and for the reminder about your tip jar. As a fan who would've never heard about you without Vox, and one who already owned all your Castalia titles (in addition to purchasing copies for others to enjoy, including a hard copy of "Awake in the Night Land" for a public library), the possibility of the necessity of an indefinite boycott of Tor basically forced me to purchase all 12 of your Tor-published titles that are available for my Kindle. I realize that this may be counter-intuitive to the cause in the short term, but up until now I've not been a pirate of any worthy work (or even most unworthy ones), and I'm guessing a lot of the Ilk have felt the same way. At the rate I read these days, Ms. Gallo may have died of natural causes before I'm caught up on all Castalia's existing books and all your current Tor-published books, but I'm still proud to say they're in my library.

Blogger Eric Mueller June 19, 2015 6:22 AM  

Is that their attempt at "Soup Nazi" marketing?

"No crappy SJW pink fiction book for you!"

Blogger James Dixon June 19, 2015 7:57 AM  

> Does anyone know what the author share is of the retail price?

Well, there's the official rate and then the rate authors actually get. The two may not be the same. Suffice it to say that publishers are well known for "creative" accounting. It's probably not as bad as it is in the music industry, but I understand that many authors never see more than their original advance.

See http://www.rachellegardner.com/how-book-royalties-work/ and http://www.school-for-champions.com/writing/book_royalties.htm for some details of how the rates work.

Blogger James Dixon June 19, 2015 8:01 AM  

> You may always click my tipjar on my webpage to pay for any books of mine you read without buying during the boycott.

I would urge all other Tor authors to do the same.

Blogger Lockestep June 19, 2015 9:14 AM  

I entered one comment on the subject, so why the immediate hostility? The response was a good one (used, then direct to the author site). Then you go off and demand a stand down. Since the question was answered I will not keep harping on it. But that is not "standing down" because an Internet tough guy demanded it.
And I have been posting as Lockestep on boards for a decade, and will continue to no matter the opinions of self-appointed board police.

Blogger Lockestep June 19, 2015 9:23 AM  

Doesn't work. Ford et al made some portion of their profit from Germany, not all of it. Here is a closer analogy- gas station owners sign contracts to brand their stations. They are still independent operators but the corporation markets the brand for them. If that corporation has a well blow out in the Gulf what did the station owner do to deserve a boycott? He can eventually get out of the deal and rebrand, but the pain is felt more intensely by the dealer than the owner.
Again the user and library approach coupled with a tip jar hit makes sense and that is the way I will go.

Blogger RAH June 19, 2015 11:05 AM  

If you want to change corporate behavior they respond to the bottom line or the money. Not always though. Chick Fila A will not open on Sundays as an example.

For those who are not old enough to recall Smith & Wesson foolish accommodation with the Clinton administration in attempt to maintain its business was a fatal error

To recap per "On March 17, 2000, Smith & Wesson made an agreement with US President Bill Clinton under which it would implement changes in the design and distribution of its firearms in return for "preferred buying program" to offset the loss of revenue as a result of anticipated boycott.[7] The agreement stated that all authorized dealers and distributors of Smith & Wesson's products had to abide by a “code of conduct” to eliminate the sale of firearms to prohibited persons, dealers had to agree to not allow children under 18 access, without an adult, to gun shops or sections of stores that contained firearms.[7]

As expected, thousands of retailers and tens of thousands of firearms consumers boycotted Smith & Wesson" Their sales dropped from over 100 million to a low of 71 million Then they were sold for pennies to SAFT Hammer for 45 million.

That is a boycott. Since then no a gun manufacturer will accommodate a gun control measure not approved by by the gun community.

Another example of a boycott was more recent at the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in Harrisburg PA It was the largest show in the east coast It had over 1000 vendors and 500 outfitters.
Reed Promotion ran the show and they banned AR15 and the evil black rifle. I solidarity most of the vendors who had nothing to do with guns pulled out of the show and lost their deposits The show was cancelled and Harrisburg Pa lost millions.

The NRA decided they would take on the show and it was renamed and the next year it ran and most people were happy. IT is now called the Great American Show. Manufacturers of guns and equipment were sought after to be vendors.

These are two very sucessful boycotts that worked . Take a lesson from the gun rights people . Do not compromise and if one is quisler , shaft that company or person.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts