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Sunday, June 21, 2015

More immigrants, less water

Waterworld had it exactly backwards:
What are we going to do once all the water is gone?  Thanks to the worst drought in more than 1,000 years, the western third of the country is facing the greatest water crisis that the United States has ever seen.  Lake Mead is now the lowest that it has ever been since the Hoover Dam was finished in the 1930s, mandatory water restrictions have already been implemented in the state of California, and there are already widespread reports of people stealing water in some of the worst hit areas.  But this is just the beginning.

Right now, in a desperate attempt to maintain somewhat “normal” levels of activity, water is being pumped out of the ground in the western half of the nation at an absolutely staggering pace.  Once that irreplaceable groundwater is gone, that is when the real crisis will begin.  If this multi-year drought stretches on and becomes the “megadrought” that a lot of scientists are now warning about, life as we know it in much of the country is going to be fundamentally transformed and millions of Americans may be forced to find somewhere else to live.
Keep in mind that this ran on Zerohedge back in May and the situation in California has continued to get worse. And it has absolutely nothing to do with global warming, it is the direct and obvious consequence of immigration, both internal and external.

Sure, the multi-year drought is the proximate problem. But the fact is that California now has 38,802,500 residents. It had less than 3 million when my grandparents were born there, and less than 7 million when my mother was. There is plenty of water for 10 million Californians. There is nowhere nearly enough for 40 million people who are drinking and flushing and irrigating the liquid equivalent of their seed corn.

The simple fact is that mass immigration is one of the most intrinsically destructive forces known to Man. The inevitable dessication and depopulation of California is only one of the many deleterious consequences of the 1965 immigration reform that will ultimately turn out to be one of the primary roots of American collapse.

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149 Comments:

Anonymous Steve June 21, 2015 9:19 AM  

California's gubernatorial inauguration in 2050.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey June 21, 2015 9:23 AM  

I completely agree with this. We saw this coming back in the 1970s. I mention the connection to mass immigration to White colleagues, but their eyes glaze over. There is profound denialism among our people.

Anonymous hausfrau June 21, 2015 9:27 AM  

It doesn't help that the Cali government is flushing massive amount of fresh water out to sea for the sake of a minnow. The government is actively working against the people to make this drought worse and destroy agriculture in what used to be some of the best farm land in the country.

Anonymous JohnnyLightwave June 21, 2015 9:29 AM  

From the linked article:
>Thanks to the worst drought in more than 1,000 years,

From a ten second google search:
>But scientists say that in the more ancient past, California and the Southwest occasionally had even worse droughts — so-called megadroughts — that lasted decades. At least in parts of California, in two cases in the last 1,200 years, these dry spells lingered for up to two centuries.

When you encounter an egregious lie in the first paragraph, assume the entire article is for manipulative purposes.

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:30 AM  

holy crap is this stupid.

Run out of ground water? Dude. It hasn't stopped raining. Ask Texas.

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 9:31 AM  

We're @ ground zero here, no pun intended.

Right now, the biggest users of water in Ca. are agricultural. Around here, that means marijuana growers. Last year the creek ran dry because of them pulling water illegally. Their presence is tied to the liberalization of marijuana, done by native Boomers. So a portion of our problem is home grown, so to speak.
But Vox is right. The state is naturally semi-arid,
and cannot support current numbers. But fiven our insane welfare abd employment policies, our Camp Of The Saints scenario will continue unabated.

I'm ready for the State of Jefferson to be born.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 21, 2015 9:31 AM  

I grew up in Salinas, California. The TV station letters were KSBW, SBW standing for "Salad Bowl of the World". All the lettuce eaten in America and many more vegetables are grown in Salinas Valley. It is a rich verdant valley but with a chaparrel environment. It is a Mediterranean environment. Not much rain.

All the fields were irrigated by flooding down the rows of lettuce.

In the late 1980s, the word came out about salt water intrusion into the ground water basin. The old water table of Salinas was 18 feet below ground. Salinas is five miles from the Pacific Ocean in the Monterrey Bay. Salinas sits 32 feet above sea level.

Now the water table in the 1980s was 118 ft below sea level. There was a rock rim that prevented salt water intrusion with a high water table. Now, with way lower water table, the ocean is infiltrating the water table of the Salinas Valley.

At the city council meetings, I brought this up and asked them to have a moratorium on building permits and all these new subdivisions and new shopping malls. To no effect.

So don't cry for California. This is what happens. Most of Salinas is Mexican with huge gang problems. The environment of Salinas can't handle the influx.

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:32 AM  

as for the californian drought... ... fuck'em.

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 9:33 AM  

given/and

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 21, 2015 9:36 AM  

I spent some time in New Mexico.

I love the west. I really do. But you can not build a society on imported water. It never works.

California will have to depopulate. But I don't want them to come here, so where do they go?

Anonymous homesteader June 21, 2015 9:37 AM  

Nate, we've fucked ourselves quite well. No need for outside help.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 21, 2015 9:39 AM  

Nate,

Cali is pulling water from as far east as Colorado. They are suing places like western Nebraska over water rights (which is pretty stupid, they are on the Mississippi side of the Continental divide). The West has always been a water poor area. Cali is making it worse. I fully expect a bunch of farmers to start shooting the pipelines one of these days.

Blogger haus frau June 21, 2015 9:40 AM  

It's easy to say fuck'email till the locusts swarm.

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 9:42 AM  

Red Jack, probably next door to you. And they won't be native born. Ir if they are, they'll be Boomers.

Either way, I recommend .243 or .22/250. No need for a .308 or 30.06. In pistol, I favor plain old .22 LR, at the base of the head. Like with goats.

You DO have options..

Anonymous joe doakes June 21, 2015 9:44 AM  

Lack of water isn't a climate problem, it's not even an engineering problem, it's a political problem. California is out of water and nobody cares enough to solve the problem. Whether we Should solve it is an open question, but whether we Can solve it should not be.

Northern Minnesota is one big swamp. Texas is flooded. There's plenty of water but on the wrong side of the Continental Divide.

Look at Pont du Gard. The Romans built it as part of a network of aquaducts miles long, some bridges, some tunnels, all gravity-fed. We have tunneling machines. We have pumps. We have pipelines running thousands of miles from Canadian oil fields. We know how to build canals - huge ones that span Panama. We know how to build dams - huge ones like Hoover. If we can't move water from where it's a nuisance to where it's a necessity, then we truly are doomed and not because of a little dry spell.

You want shovel-ready jobs? Here's a public works program that would literally transform the nation. Now, are we willing to do it?

OpenID mattse001 June 21, 2015 9:46 AM  

Q: Why is groundwater "irreplaceable?" Won't it simply take a few wet seasons to replace it?

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:48 AM  

who ever said ground water is not replacable is well... a giant dumb dumb

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 21, 2015 9:50 AM  

Hausfrau, I don't understand (maybe others don't either) your reference to the Californian government flushing fresh water into the Pacific. Care to elaborate?

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 9:51 AM  

Because "never waste a crisis"....

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:52 AM  

"It's easy to say fuck'email till the locusts swarm."

its even easier then.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 21, 2015 9:54 AM  

It's funny that so few people are mentioning that SoCal was ALWAYS a mostly-arid area. Pretty much ALL of its water comes from elsewhere.

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:54 AM  

"The government is actively working against the people to make this drought worse and destroy agriculture in what used to be some of the best farm land in the country."

Also... it was never the best farm land in the country. Not even close.

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 9:54 AM  

The Delta Smelt. They stopped farm water distribution for a minnow...

OpenID mattse001 June 21, 2015 9:54 AM  

@ Franz Lionheart:
California environmentalists forced water diversion into rivers to benefit the Delta Smelt. That water cannot be used by people, and goes straight into the ocean.

Anonymous Steve June 21, 2015 9:55 AM  

joe doakes - We have pipelines running thousands of miles from Canadian oil fields.

Yup. From an engineering point of view, diverting water to arid regions is something human beings solved thousands of years ago in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Maybe it's an economics problem. Getting fresh water to California isn't difficult, but somebody will need to pay for it.

And the usual suspects who hate industry, technology and human beings will try to sabotage it, just as they've been holding up Keystone XL.

Anonymous hausfrau June 21, 2015 9:59 AM  

California barring farmers from irrigating their fields because of the Delta smelt. Here are just a couple articles off a quick search. Much of Cali's problem is being driven by the radical environmentalists.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why-does-california-let-billions-of-gallons-of-fresh-water-flow-straight-into-the-ocean/

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/delta/article7602641.html

Blogger Nate June 21, 2015 9:59 AM  

We moved the mississippi 3 times. This is really not a big deal.

Jesus...we fantasize about terraforming mars but we can't terraform california?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey June 21, 2015 9:59 AM  

If California depopulates, I expect the goobers in the South will be begging for White Californian refugees to settle in their communities to redress the worsening racial demographics in Dixie.

If Civil War 2 takes off in the South, I expect White Southron refugees to flee to the West including places like California to escape the state-sponsored genocide.

OpenID mattse001 June 21, 2015 9:59 AM  

California has had an oversized influence on the rest of the country for too long. At some point, a state has too many residents and needs to spread the wealth around.
...call it the Obama theory of population management.
If we're very lucky, the residents will remember WHY they're leaving California too.

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 10:00 AM  

In a normal state, we'd be increasing reservoir capacity, converting all lawns to greywater, and setting up an australia style water exchange system.

But we're not. We're California. Because we may not know better, but we FEEL better. And that's what counts....

Anonymous hausfrau June 21, 2015 10:01 AM  

"Also... it was never the best farm land in the country. Not even close"

Perhaps. But it was highly productive.

Blogger VD June 21, 2015 10:02 AM  

Q: Why is groundwater "irreplaceable?" Won't it simply take a few wet seasons to replace it?

They're talking in the short term. The problem is that the usage is continuous. If you never drive it below its replacement level, it's not a problem. But once you cross that point, you start running into problems when the water is being used before it can replenish the groundwater. And if you don't have any wet seasons, well, you're screwed.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 10:03 AM  

I have wondered why cisterns are not more widly used in Texas and other western states. Water basin areas have laws against water collection, think Austin, our little Cali. Idiots.

How long does it take for surface water to filter down into the underground system?

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 10:03 AM  

Me, Laguna Beach- What's the California ilk contingent come to these days?

Anonymous Homesteader June 21, 2015 10:09 AM  

1. Lawns. California lawn area would COVER the state of Washington.

2. Export Ag. Marijuana and pistaccios.

3. Delta Smelt. See above.

4. F'ing insane immigration policies. Because FeelGood.

Problem solved. I'll be announcing my candidacy shortly.

Anonymous DavidKathome June 21, 2015 10:09 AM  

There is plenty of water for 40 million Californians for their homes. There is nowhere near enough water for 40 million Californians and the farmers who use up most of the water growing crops. Most irrigation projects in the long-term eventually fail.

Blogger David-093 June 21, 2015 10:10 AM  

Goddamn it. This just means the Californians are going to move to the South and Midwest and vote Democrat.

Pray for rain? Pray for a border fence.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 21, 2015 10:15 AM  

All the diversity will move East bringing with it all the joy. So much for the theory of Azlan in the South West - no one will want it. They'll cross the Mississippi and go after the goodies to the East. Whites get ready to fight, die, or leave.

Anonymous hausfrau June 21, 2015 10:16 AM  

I have wondered why cisterns are not more widly used in Texas and other western states. Water basin areas have laws against water collection, think Austin, our little Cali. Idiots."

I don't know about California but cisterns were outright illegal in Colorado when my husband looked into setting one up in the early 1990's. IN Oregon it is illegal to have a water catchment system on your own property because the state claims ownership of the rain. You need a special permit and if it is revoked or the water board refuses to renew it for whatever reason you have to take the dams out. Anyone dealt with these laws? I think it's just another sign of creeping Agenda 21. I wouldn't be surprised if there were legal barriers to rain capture systems in California if other less crazy states have them.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/oregon-man-sentenced-30-days-jail-collecting-rainwater-his-property

Anonymous Clk June 21, 2015 10:17 AM  

"California has had an oversized influence on the rest of the country for too long."

I think you mean Iowa & New Hampshire.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 10:17 AM  

Groundwater is, as noted, not irreplaceable, but depending on the geology it can take a long time for it to trickle down from the surface and replenish.

The biggest problem is not immigration, which of course has historically included a lot of citizens moving to "California, the land of opportunity" (yeah, hard to believe now, isn't it), but the fact that the state stopped building out its water systems in the late '60s to early '70s, due to the "environmentalism". After that it was just a matter of time.

Illegal immigration is now a factor because, well, how many citizens now move to California? Numerically small numbers to work in high tech or I suppose Hollywood, but otherwise the state is very good at chasing us away. But since agricultural use of water vastly outstrips other human consumption, 80/20, plus per half of the use is "environmental", this is all due to human choice at higher levels (like governmental). Although the same is true for illegal immigration, of course.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 10:19 AM  

Lawns! Whoever came up with that idea?
I have never watered mine. Saint Augustine grass if cut tall and not watered, the roots will grow deeper. My lawn can handle drought pretty well. Not that it is an issue lately.

Blogger pyrrhus June 21, 2015 10:20 AM  

The previous California mega-drought in the 16th and 17th centuries lasted more than 100 years, and forced even the minimal Indian population to scramble for water. A great book on the science is The West Without Water, by three UC scientists....

Blogger pyrrhus June 21, 2015 10:21 AM  

Groundwater can be replaced very slowly--the next glaciation should handle it nicely!

Blogger Bobo #117 June 21, 2015 10:22 AM  

We're importing to our beach areas in Costa Rica (wrong side of the hills from the volcanic aquifer) desalination units in 40' containers that will produce 100,000gals/day of fresh water, situating them under a "shed" of 37kW of solar panels. About $250k for 36mil gallons a year.

Of course every coastal area in Cali would find a regulation against such capitalist lunacy.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 10:23 AM  

The system of laws that make it illegal for you to set up your own catchment like a cistern in the arid West are very old, see Wikipedia for a start, which says they go back to the California gold rush. In short you can't because the water that would otherwise drain off your land has already been allocated to others.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 10:23 AM  

I guess you can use a pool rather than a cistern.

California Pool Construction In Drought Could Hit Highest Level Since 2007
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/06/19/california-pool-construction-in-drought-could-hit-highest-level-since-2007/

Anonymous clk June 21, 2015 10:24 AM  

"All the diversity will move East bringing with it all the joy."

The east has more than its fair share of diversity ... no ... I suspect the deep south, being closest kn climate with be the destination of choice.

Look.. california and the west have had a wet 200 years .. ite changing.. doesnt have to be a global warming.. but look on the bright side .. when the yellowstone caldera goes off , aftrr it all cools off we will have a nice inland sea again and lots of new waterfront property with far few tourists to spoil the view.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 10:28 AM  

I know the reason and it is dumb. Some water is captured but not all. Most of it will not be captured.

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 21, 2015 10:28 AM  

Hausfrau and others who kindly replied to my question - thanks for the prompt replies. That story indeed sounds crazy. The drought will force the politicians to rethink (likely too little too late).

OpenID imwithferris June 21, 2015 10:29 AM  

The ground water in the West is coming mostly from underground caves in the form of aquifers. These don't refill quickly, and certainly there's no guarantee that they will refill with fresh-water.

Similar problems are seen in geothermal power. You have these basins of hot rock, but the rate of heat diffusion from deep in the earth is so slow that they can be depleted. This is a problem in New Zealand, for example. Stuff doesn't diffuse quickly through rock and dirt.

Anonymous Jake June 21, 2015 10:33 AM  

Not all aquifers are replaceable, the water that irrigates most of the midwest all the way down to Texas is pumped up from an aquifer something like 1000 feet down that was created by glacial melt. Until we're on the backside of the next ice age there's no way that water is getting replenished faster than it's being used.

The commenter above is half correct that we have the means to pump water from the eastern US to California. It is probably possible, extraordinarily expensive, but possible. But it doesn't solve the problem. If we did it, the population would just grow more and consume more water until we had the same problem on an even bigger scale. It'd be a bandaid, not a solution. We've already been through a cycle or two of this approach.

California needs to deal with the reality of it's existence, which is that there's just not enough water to continue along it's present trends using water for everything it's currently being used for. The "household use" gets the most blame and attention but is a small part of the problem. The BIG users are agriculture and industry. If they can't figure out how to to all get by with what's available then someone's going to have to move or do without. I see no reason the rest of the country should be forced to pay for allowing a few states to consume far more water than they can supply, espeically when that will only make the problem bigger in the long term.

Anonymous clk June 21, 2015 10:33 AM  

Just a question .. VD ... are you not an immigrant as well ? ... dont the italians have rules against you and your immigrant horde? :).....

Happy fathers day all ... you are fulling Gods plan by keeping your families together...its a hard job but with the grace of God nothing is too hard to overcome.

Anonymous clk June 21, 2015 10:37 AM  

"from the eastern US to California."

Sure .. we will charge $100 a barrel .. a similiar cost to what TX charged us for "its" oil ...

Blogger Cail Corishev June 21, 2015 10:43 AM  

We have tunneling machines. We have pumps. We have pipelines running thousands of miles from Canadian oil fields.

All true, I'm sure we could do it, but should we, when we know it would mean they'd just import even more aliens to use it? If the "drought" gets them to feel selfish about their resources and less inclined to invite the world to share them, shouldn't we stay out of the way?

Or to consider it another way: how much do we want to spend on the San Sebastian Line?

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 10:49 AM  

A solution is single home desalinization. Combined with cistetns, brown water reuse, etc. a home could be mostly self sufgicient water-wise. But if you can go off the grid, well, that is a no-no in some places.

Here is an interesting design for desalinization:
http://www.homemade-circuits.com/2011/12/make-your-own-rapid-sea-water.html

OpenID mattse001 June 21, 2015 10:57 AM  

Franz Lionheart: "... The drought will force the politicians to rethink (likely too little too late)."
I predict the rich elites in Hollywood, SF and Silicon Valley will be so insulated from this, they will do nothing. They will let the state depopulate before they give up their enviro-fanaticism. In the end, they'll probably be happy that they don't have to share the state with as many of the hoi polloi.

Anonymous RCPete June 21, 2015 10:57 AM  

One comment on groundwater: Not sure if it applies to all aquifers, but take enough water out of some, and the rock collapses. California's Central Valley (as well as other portions) have seen subsidence from this. You can lose a lot of capacity that way.

Thanks (yeah, right) to Jerry and his buddies in the '70s, a lot of dams never got built. We're still fighting a losing battle to keep dams on the Klamath River. I escaped Cali 12 years ago to the saner eastern portion of Oregon, but the water wars are forever.

Anonymous zen0 June 21, 2015 11:01 AM  

If this is one of those 200 year droughts, pumping water from other states merely spreads the area of drought.

Israel went big into desalination in the late 90's .An Israeli company is now building a desalination plant near San Diego.
They are also recycling sewage water. This is probably the future for SoCal.

All this will be useless if the population keeps increasing like it has since 1970, however.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 11:06 AM  

Thanks (yeah, right) to Jerry and his buddies in the '70s, a lot of dams never got built.

Per The Age of Reagan: The Fall of the Old Liberal Order: 1964-1980 it started with Reagan, who was governor 1967 to 1975, between Pat Brown and his son, Jerry Brown. Although Reagan wasn't opposed to all projects, just some that were slated to inundate some particularly scenic land.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 11:23 AM  

Like the Keystone pipeline, building dams is all well and good. The devil is in the details on how private property owners are screwed.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 11:26 AM  

As to sending water from, say Texas to Cali, hell no. Sonn, that water will become a right and no way to turn it off. Another solution to California's water crisis is to pay a real market valuation for it. I will not hold mh breath.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 21, 2015 11:28 AM  

It is the left stabbing other parts of the left in the back, do you honestly think those white hippies want the colored barbarians and their employers running the show? Not a chance they want their state to look like a barrio of the third world or having a few rich "farmers" making millions while polluting the country.

In this case I fully support the leftists in saving the smelt and the salmon, and for farmers raising alfalfa to feed to Holsteins that is stupid with a capital S.

Any Rightists here looking for moderately entertaining fiction dealing with drought and reversion to the mean I suggest Abbey's "Good News."

Now to completely alienate my conservative allies I must say "fuck the bourgeoisie and their 'cheap' labor." note this is written from a suburban house by an alienated hypocritical 'Murkan sick of all this shit

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 12:08 PM  

Here is an interesting design for desalinization:
Make your own rapid sea-water desalination plant


Where are you going to dump the extremely salty and salt that builds up in the sphere?

Anonymous Gapeseed June 21, 2015 12:10 PM  

I second the comment regarding charging market prices for water. California has subsidized the price of water for years. Stop the market distortions, and let the chips fall where they may.

Blogger Carnivore June 21, 2015 12:11 PM  

California will have to depopulate. But I don't want them to come here, so where do they go?

Y'all come to Illinois. Specifically, C(r)ook County and the collar counties around Chicago. State needs even more democratin'. Our city, county and state busted budgets will make you feel at home.

Blogger JDC June 21, 2015 12:18 PM  

Hey...in MI we do have Detroit, Flint and Saginaw (7,6,and 5 respectively for murder rate), but we also have the great lakes. Leave us to our murder and water. I fully expect CA to begin suing for water rights to Lake Michigan anytime.

Anonymous liljoe June 21, 2015 12:20 PM  

If we're very lucky, the residents will remember WHY they're leaving California too

as a Nevada resident, I can tell you first hand how unlikely that is

Anonymous A Reader June 21, 2015 12:27 PM  

In industrialized countries, politics makes a drought worse. Other have pointed out laws against cisterns. Another example is that Chicago, being in a compact with some states and two Canadian provinces, cannot sell Great Lakes water. Water for money trade would be beneficial to both parties.

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 12:29 PM  

All true, I'm sure we could do it, but should we, when we know it would mean they'd just import even more aliens to use it?

This is the curse of being productive people, isn't it. Eventually the leaches move in claiming that as humans they are entitled to free stuff because you have oppressed them.

We build paradise and they take paradise and turn it into a shit hole. (Joni Mitchell was a clueless SJW bitch, BTW.)

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 12:32 PM  

as a Nevada resident, I can tell you first hand how unlikely that is

In what way?

Wyoming?

Anonymous farmer Tom June 21, 2015 12:32 PM  

I get really ticked at criticisms of farmers using water. Shut your f***ING pie hole you moron. Much more important that you water you lawn or protect some damn fish than grow food you idiot?

Damn we are stupid sometimes.

Blogger Doom June 21, 2015 12:45 PM  

Buying all the water they can, from every state around probably three deep on top of pumping and dumping, while not holding on to enough through reservoirs. No desalination going. Couldn't get either of those up in time, and doesn't look like they are even thinking of those in the future, assuming they make it. All of this based on the 40 yo virgins in Silicon Valley, the trammeled sluts in Hollywood, and the paper debt pushers as the goddaddies to a gimped eco-political system that is beyond long in the tooth. As stocks get corrected, the papering over of Cali's real debt problem will become clear. Pumping was thought to bring down Texas, and raise Cali's prospects... but all rigged systems eventually fail under their own weight.

Yeah, Cali is doomed. They chose it in every way they could, and have doubled down on that even when it wasn't their call. A very special people out there. I do wonder if border states will put up border stations, and patrol the state lines, to keep those vamps in their own territory? Let them eat their own. Of course, in less than a generation, Texas will be the same. Unfortunately, they can't just drop off the map with a misguided test or three. :p

Blogger Cail Corishev June 21, 2015 12:49 PM  

Farmer Tom, I agree with you in general, but irrigating arid land in California to grow watery, nearly calorie-free Iceberg lettuce and shipping it cross-country is pretty stupid.

Blogger David-093 June 21, 2015 12:58 PM  

@Cail

How else will soccer moms lose weight though?

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 1:00 PM  

" Where are you going to dump the extremely salty and salt that builds up in the sphere?"

Depends.

1) Back to the sea.
2) Use it for cooking.
3) Use it for scrubing.
4) Use it for pools yhat use salt instead of clorine.
5) Sell to others.

There are many other uses, I am sure.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 21, 2015 1:15 PM  

"There are many other uses, I am sure."

I'm saving mine for the ruins of Tor.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 21, 2015 1:16 PM  

Where are you going to dump the extremely salty and salt that builds up in the sphere?

From the movie Top Secret:

Doctor Flamond: You see, a year ago, I was close to perfecting the first magnetic desalinization process, so revolutionary it was capable of removing the salt from over 500 million gallons of seawater a day. Do you realize what that could mean to the starving nations of the earth?
Nick: Wow, they'd have enough salt to last forever!

Anonymous Booga June 21, 2015 1:17 PM  

--From the movie Top Secret:--

An absolutely hysterical film. And Kilmer pulls off the "straight man" job as well as anyone.

Blogger Chris Mallory June 21, 2015 1:35 PM  

"but irrigating arid land in California to grow watery, nearly calorie-free Iceberg lettuce and shipping it cross-country is pretty stupid."

The same can be said for keeping vineyards and nut orchards alive in a desert. Instead of planting yearly crops that can be not planted during years of drought, these farmers are wasting water keeping these plants alive. Nut orchards make sense in the South where it rains, they don't in California.

Farmer Tom, I am getting ticked at rich farmers who refuse to pay an American wage and instead depend on importing hordes of 3rd world trash to work for slave wages. I am also getting ticked about water being sprayed on fields at below market prices.
Nothing like a farmer to complain about his welfare checks being threatened.

Anonymous bw June 21, 2015 1:37 PM  

Leave us to our murder and water.

Thread winner. 14 on the Sarcastic "but seriously" scale of 1-10.
Nothing funnier than serious Irony. Or Sirius Irony.

Now to completely alienate my conservative allies I must say "fuck the bourgeoisie and their 'cheap' labor."

I hear you. You should have used "conservatives" thogh.
Africans were imported in a "free trade" slave labor deal run by ruling elite families and their jewish friends to the aristocratic ag South, the latter of which could have simply paid their poor white brethren a living wage to pick cotton. Kept it in house. But no, now we have hyphenated -Americans that have been used on the SJW marxist tide to beat guilty whites over the head with, and dispossess them of the continent(s) their ancestors created.
But remember, you didn't build that. It hasn't appeared that most people understand these words and meaning put into Barry's mouth. It is the language of dispossession. You, white folk, only have agency in the Negative regard, Never the Positive. Remember that. And get to the back of the bus.
Only Whites have Negative agency in the world. Only whites.
And Black lives matter - but only when Whites take them.



Blogger Nobody June 21, 2015 1:38 PM  

Hausfrau, I don't understand (maybe others don't either) your reference to the Californian government flushing fresh water into the Pacific. Care to elaborate?

Off the top of my head - Environmentalists sued the State and won. 300 Billion gallons of water were diverted and flushed down a dry creek to save a little fish. And this also. California is also destroying some man-made water reservoirs to bring back those area's into equilibrium with Gaia.

Anonymous Crudeetay June 21, 2015 1:45 PM  

The simple fact is that in normal rain years there is more than enough water for 50 million.

Stay writing about stuff you know about. There must be someone out there you can call a savage on account of their race.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 1:48 PM  

Long time resident Victor David Hanson points out that a lot of water is now being used to maintain salmon runs on rivers that previously had none because the rivers were seasonally too intermittent.

A general comment someone made is that California is now a tragedy of the ruling class legislating their tastes into policy. I add that their taste is generally poor.

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 2:09 PM  

It seems that Joni Mitchell believes in Morgellons disease which the ever reliable (sarcasm!) labels as Delusional Parasitosis

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 2:10 PM  

That should have been: the ever reliable Wikipedia

Blogger Nobody June 21, 2015 2:12 PM  

Living in the High Desert in San Bernardino County, I've seen this coming now for several years. Our winters here have been unseasonably warm and dry. This time of year, we used to get these fly-through monsoon type rains that would cause flash flooding within an hour, gone. We used to sit out in the garage and watch the lightening show at night, haven't had one in several years now. Two weeks ago, a system came through and left just barely enough to wet the concrete, and the local paper tells us we got much needed rain.

We got a new local paper editor that moved here from the city down the hill. His big schtick now is telling us to remove all our grass and desert landscape our lawns. Meanwhile, he and his wife like to think themselves as travelers. So they go the Vegas, gee, why can't we be like Vegas. They go to Atlanta, gee, why can't we be like Atlanta, and etc. We NEED to grow. We NEED to beautify. We NEED more people. We need to build more affordable housing, which we did back in the 80's, which brought L.A. mommies here to get their kids out of the gangs. Gee, let's build another prison to bring jobs here, when we already have 7, and all its prison hanger-ons. But dern it, we have to save water. We should tear up our lawns and turn them into a desert landscape. And we need renewable energy windmills so when we get up in the morning and look at the mountains, we get to see windmills instead. We used to a nice, quiet, sleepy town, until idiots had a vision.

A general comment someone made is that California is now a tragedy of the ruling class legislating their tastes into policy. I add that their taste is generally poor.

That pretty says it. And they are like Tumble Weeds. Everywhere they go, they drop seeds and grow.

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 2:12 PM  

Crud Tay says:

The simple fact is that in normal rain years there is more than enough water for 50 million.

That is simply not true because we have to account for low-rainfall years, and we know they occur.

Why don't you stick to making up shit about Vox?

Blogger Bobo #117 June 21, 2015 2:13 PM  

"How else will soccer moms lose weight though?"

Wait...soccer moms lose weight?!!

Anonymous cheddarman June 21, 2015 2:13 PM  

"We moved the mississippi 3 times. This is really not a big deal.

Jesus...we fantasize about terraforming mars but we can't terraform California - Nate


Nate, you are trying to solve this problem like a Southron. The real problem is we have museum quality specimens of Yankeedom running the show in California.

Blogger James Dixon June 21, 2015 2:21 PM  

> Where are you going to dump the extremely salty and salt that builds up in the sphere?

Evaporate the water away and sell the salt as "organic sea salt" to SJW's.

Anonymous bw June 21, 2015 2:24 PM  

must be someone out there you can call a savage on account of their race.

Why you be hatin' on (D.) Lyndon Baines Johnson and tape recorders, nigga?

No one has kept the African down more than an SJW true believer, unless you're trying to point out honestly that they need special rights and favors to exist (core marixst socialist belief and policy) that white men do not. Direct question: how long do the Blacks need post segregation and affirmaction/quotas, and how much more money before they stop killing each other in the inner cities, where Black Lives Don't Matter. It's always just a little bit more, right honey?

@VD this goes to your Shoot-Aim complaint. Drive by's who are just sniping. They aren't here to ask questions or nor do they have intent to debate any issue whatsoever (occasional exception vs rule). Why not frag 'em? They know exactly where they've come and are here mostly for one snarky, disengaged SJW purpose.
The simple fact is that in normal rain years there is more than enough water for 50 million Is this sincere engagement?? The fucking purpose of the thread is that scientists and observable evidence are noting there is not enough "normal rain" in Cali and these are not "normal rain years" even for 12million less than "50 million".

Anonymous bw June 21, 2015 2:33 PM  

Wait...soccer moms lose weight?!!

Nothing smoking hotter than a fit, sexy soccer mom at the gym - or anywhere, for that matter, but the fitness has to be very evident.
Smoking hot selection of my own people, of course.
I'm with Muhamed Ali on that one.

Anonymous The other robot June 21, 2015 2:35 PM  

Evaporate the water away and sell the salt as "organic sea salt" to SJW's.

Whoa! I'm a believer. A dual-purpose desalination plant that a locovore would love!

Blogger rcocean June 21, 2015 2:44 PM  

Basically until your average boobus Americanus is hurt directly and significantly by immigration it will continue. I assume that when the Democrats get unbeatable majorities in all 3 branches due to immigrants of color, some Americans will wake up. But of course it will be too late.

Blogger rcocean June 21, 2015 2:48 PM  

Plus you've always had an enormous numbers of short-sighted Greedheads in the USA.
1- Hey, lets bring in some African Slaves, think of all the $$$.
2- Hey, lets get some cheap labor from Europe - after all none of them will be communists or socialists and they'll let the WASP's rule for ever.
3- Lets let in the all the people of color from all over the world - think of the $$$ - and what could go wrong?

Anonymous Quartermaster June 21, 2015 2:49 PM  

"Q: Why is groundwater "irreplaceable?" Won't it simply take a few wet seasons to replace it?"

Effectively, some ground water is irreplaceable. The Ogallala aquifer, for example, underlays the great plains from South Dakota to Texas, and has fallen hundreds of feet in the last 40 years. At present rainfall rates, it would take centuries to recharge. Here in the southeast it might take just one good wet winter to recharge the aquifers.

The west is a region that few understand, and that means no libtard understands it at all.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 21, 2015 2:51 PM  

"It's easy to say fuck'email till the locusts swarm."

its even easier then.


Even more important to say it then, too.

The simple fact is that in normal rain years there is more than enough water for 50 million.

That is simply not true because we have to account for low-rainfall years, and we know they occur.


Reminds me of people who build houses on flood plains. On a normal day, the river isn't running through your living room...

Nate, you are trying to solve this problem like a Southron. The real problem is we have museum quality specimens of Yankeedom running the show in California.

As someone born and raised in California who left 20 years ago, I can attest to the enormous number of New Yorkers who migrated to California and the amount of damage they did.

As far as desalinization goes, I believe Santa Barbara built a desal plant during the last drought, then once the drought ended, decommissioned it and sold the parts. Efforts to build a new one are being stymied by environmentalists who worry it will harm fish.

Blogger Bard June 21, 2015 2:53 PM  

"California will have to depopulate. But I don't want them to come here, so where do they go?"

All those abandoned cities in China?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 21, 2015 2:56 PM  

California has had an oversized influence on the rest of the country for too long.

California is a near-perfect microcosm of the rest of the country, the USA in one-tenth scale. If you live in the rest of the country, CA is the place where you can see tomorrow's problems today,

Anonymous Jack Amok June 21, 2015 3:04 PM  

California will have to depopulate. But I don't want them to come here, so where do they go?

For instance, this issue. People like to complain about "Californification" when idiot liberal voters flee the results of the policies they've voted for in CA and then proceed to vote for those same policies in their new home. But that sort of glosses over the millions of Rust Belt Refugees who moved to CA last century and brought about the mess in CA by voting for the liberal policies and politicians that ruined their former cities.

It's clear that the majority of people don't learn from their mistakes at a political level. At some point, if you want to stop this cascade, you have to come up with a Crazy Eddie plan that prevents people from bringing the problems they are trying to flee with them. Considering that one of the possible (perhaps likely) scenarios for the mid-term future is an E Unum Pluribus breakup that will see lots of relocation and internal migration, it might be worth thinking about.

Blogger Matt June 21, 2015 3:45 PM  

Heeey homes, my peoples is here first, ese.

¡¡ARRIBA LA RAZAAAA!!

Blogger Matt June 21, 2015 3:51 PM  

Really though, just kill then all. Take the 3 good looking females and slaughter the rest. When I see these 5'5" men, I want to step on them. I dont care if tacos taste good. Yes I like tamales. I like crisp lawns and quiet neighborhoods even more.

SJWs have never spoken to Mexicans. They dont know how ignorant they are. Ive had many acquaintences from Mexico, south America, Africa, all shades of brown. And Im fine without them.

If they cant assimilate and become freedom loving, gubmit hating White Americans, I dont want them here. Certainly not in large numbers.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 3:56 PM  

The simple fact is that in normal rain years there is more than enough water for 50 million.

The point here is that there's fewer people than that in the state, so a system of reservoirs can in wet years store surplus water for the dry years. But as noted above, the state canceled the building plan necessary to keep up with its increasing population 6 decades ago when the population was half the size (and didn't they destroy one or more?), and it was only a matter of time before a long enough dry spell caused disaster.

Ditto agriculture, which normally uses 4/5ths of the human used water in California. The US population has increased by 50% since the end of new water projects, and one would imagine so the demand for the fresh veggies that California's climate and soil are good at producing given enough water; I read that the state produces 1/2 of the nation's demand. Well, that's going to end, but again there was no compelling need for this, aside from those who love bait fish, or really, anything, more than their fellow citizens.

Anonymous DT June 21, 2015 4:04 PM  

California's gubernatorial inauguration in 2050.

Honestly? I would vote for Lord Humungus over Governor Moon Beam.

Anonymous DT June 21, 2015 4:10 PM  

Yup. From an engineering point of view, diverting water to arid regions is something human beings solved thousands of years ago in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Maybe it's an economics problem. Getting fresh water to California isn't difficult, but somebody will need to pay for it.


Hmmm...doesn't California have nearly $70 billion set aside for a high speed train that nobody wants? How many canals and pipelines can that build?

Anonymous RCPete June 21, 2015 4:12 PM  

Not doing well on Pale Moon. Attempt #2: Western Oregonians (frequently Portlandia wannabees) hate Californians, though the differences are pretty subtle. East of the Cascades, we welcome them (especially when they spend money), but nobody figures they're going to stick around until they make it through a winter or two.

Anonymous oddrob June 21, 2015 4:24 PM  

Also... it was never the best farm land in the country. Not even close.

Clearly you have never lived in California. You can grow pretty much any crop you want if you have the water. Central Valley one of the most productive ag regions in the world.

Blogger Achillea June 21, 2015 4:28 PM  

I live in California and never cease to be amazed at the sheer stoopid on display here. We have 840 miles of coastline bordering 95%+ of the world's water for cripe's sake. DROUGHT SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 4:29 PM  

Maybe Mexico is handling water issues better and maybe the prbkem liberals will move there. I think that Mexico style of government suits the liberals.

Yawn. I had this intriguing dream ....

Anonymous BGS June 21, 2015 4:44 PM  

One thing about water is people forget is that they used to seed the clouds in the west to get more rain.

I'm ready for the State of Jefferson to be born.

SJWs have a 6 state solution but none of them will bear the debts of the old CA.

The Romans built it as part of a network of aquaducts miles long, some bridges, some tunnels, all gravity-fed

There are still a few working aqueducts in Europe but they got built on white privilege. Anyone building now would need affirmative action. Most of LA's waterworks got built by men with picks, shovels and mules in a year but they had an advantage of the majority of workers had an IQ of over 90, now that 100+year old system is being overused as CA runs out of Asian/white legacy.

we fantasize about terraforming mars but we can't terraform california? If SJWs chain themselves to rockets its not a problem

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey June 21, 2015 5:26 PM  

well, how many citizens now move to California?

Plenty, in my experience. I suspect more citizens leave than arrive annually, but it seems as if every other White American I meet here was born somewhere else and migrated to the state. They come from places like OH, IN, and FL. The economic downturn 2008-2011 pushed down house prices in the state, making it more affordable for the rest of the country, which probably attracted more citizen migrants. California is still very popular with Americans, although you wouldn't know it from grumpy conservatards who have an obsessive hatred for the state.

Anonymous Anonymous June 21, 2015 5:28 PM  

What's happening to California is indeed a microcosm of our collective flight from reality for the lie that is utopia. Theories artificially subsidized by fiat dollars; fiat dollars generated by utopian theorists! Science and technology don't have the answers to every one of life's problems; the land - we ourselves - have built-in physical and moral limits! Violate those limits and you pay the price!

Respecting those physical and moral limits would likely result in a good many of us going back into farming and animal husbandry, taking care of our patches of ground, feeding our families and communities, and worrying about social and "cultural" issues on the other side of the state, let alone the other side of the world - and definitely on "reality" TV - a good deal less, if at all!

Regards,
David Smith

Anonymous jdgalt June 21, 2015 5:35 PM  

Blaming immigration is so silly, maybe we should make it a filksong to the tune of "Blame Canada."

There are two main reasons for California's shortage of drinking water.

1) Since the '70s we haven't been building dams to keep up with population growth. No, we have NOT run out of places to put them; they've been killed by the NIMBYs and eco-nuts. The Auburn Dam, near me, is a good example. It should have been built decades ago. It should certainly be built now.

2) The market is hugely distorted to favor farmers because they have lobbyists. Farmers in the Central Valley pay 1% of the residential price for water. Common sense says they should pay the full amount, or shut down their farms and move to Nebraska, where they'd have to deal with periodic flooding rather than the droughts we have here. It's a no-brainer.

It's also a no-brainer that as long as farmers consume 70% of the state's water and get it at 1% of the market price, the lion's share of wastage is going to be there. So rationing residential users is a complete waste of time, money, and effort.

Only a government bureaucracy could manage a resource this stupidly.

Anonymous ENthePeasant June 21, 2015 5:41 PM  

I had one geography teacher in high school (graduated in 1970) who was always running on and on about how California could not support the 20 million people then living in California. He kept telling us that historically there was only about enough water for 10 million and we were in an unusual cycle of extremely went winters that began in the early 1950s. He had been a US mail pilot in the 1930s (bomber pilot during the war) and talked about crossing the Sierras and not seeing very little snow. Where I live currently rain fall normal is considered to be 17 inches. We're only getting about 9 in the last five years. However, cores of the Bennett Juniper (estimated to be anywhere from 3000 to 6000 years old) have shown that as recently as three hundred years ago the average rainfall was 87 inches. Shit's gonna get real if we have a historic return to low rainfall.

Anonymous jdgalt June 21, 2015 5:42 PM  

Q: Why is groundwater "irreplaceable?"

Because if it's not replenished within a year or two, the ground will sink, filling in the gaps that once held the water.

Anonymous DT June 21, 2015 6:43 PM  

jdgalt June 21, 2015 5:35 PM - you have valid points, but immigration's contribution to population growth is another part of the problem.

You can't have rampant environmentalism, subsidized water for farmers, AND unchecked population growth. You can maybe choose 2 of 3, but don't be surprised if ultimately you have to choose just one.

Barring a significant advance in desalinization technology cost/benefit...

* If California wants to retain its farming industry and build as few water projects as possible, then it must send the immigrants packing.

* If California wants to keep the immigrants as well, then it must damn up every "pristine natural" canyon that can hold water.

* If nature and immigration are the priorities, then the farmers have to pay market prices which will force many to leave, and the rest to switch crops.

This is reality. Unfortunately California's government consists of liberal midwits who are experts at one and only one thing: burying their heads in the sand and pretending that reality doesn't exist.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 6:44 PM  

The market is hugely distorted to favor farmers because they have lobbyists.

That would be lobbyists many years ago; these arrangements were made to supply both farms and cities (people and industry), and then the increasingly numerous city-folk reneged on the deal 60 years ago, and since the government is even more dysfunctional, when the inevitable dry path occurred it's turned into a mess for everyone.

This sure looks like it's going to be catastrophic, material to the nation's economy. I've read half the nation's veggies come from California. There are also assets like fruit and nut trees and vineyards that could outright die, and one wonders if a fraction of them will be replaced (why bother, why would anyone insure them, with a batshit insane state government?).

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 21, 2015 6:49 PM  

Let California solve California's water problem. Not a drop from another state. They have enough water and places to build dams they just won't they also release water for a fucking minnow.

If every single one of them died of dehydration tomorrow it would be their own damn fault because they have the water now and would have more if they just built dams and aquifers and quit dumping water for the blue titted smelt or whatever the hell it is.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 21, 2015 6:52 PM  

Remember when all the environmental groups were screaming about over population and ZPG? Wonder where all their concern went when the entire 'crisis' is due to illegal aliens flooding the state? Since Cali and the Feds will never send them home this issue will probably be one of the actual fighting issues in the coming break up.

Anonymous Magus Janus June 21, 2015 6:56 PM  

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power_Alliance

Regardless the merits of the specific proposal the point is due to "environmental" and legalistic bs the West is incapable of large-scale projects like this anymore.

The Interstate Highway program for instance would almost certainly be impossible nowadays.

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 21, 2015 6:58 PM  

My grandfather emigrated to California from the upper MidWest in the early 20th century. My father was born there, and I was born there. But we left in the late 1960s, and never went back.
Where are all the surplus Californians going? They're taking their inflated housing gains and bring their Cal-mindset to Texas, Oregon, Utah, Washington, etc. I remember the "Don't Californicate Oregon" signs from the 70s. Too bad nobody stuck to their principles on that one.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 21, 2015 7:21 PM  

Blaming immigration is so silly, maybe we should make it a filksong to the tune of "Blame Canada."

There are two main reasons for California's shortage of drinking water.

1) Since the '70s we haven't been building dams to keep up with population growth...


Takes some talent to contradict your thesis with your bullet point #1.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling June 21, 2015 7:49 PM  

Jack Amok:

I think both of you are confused: the non-"environmental" (for fish etc.) share of California's water use is roughly 80% agriculture, 20% people and industry. So agriculture's share is overwhelming, and it's true it scales with demand, but also for the nation and the world. The nation's population got over 50% larger in this time, although, yes, a fair amount of that is due to immigration. But much of the rest of the world has gotten wealthier in this time and is eating better (although this has not favored the lower classes/castes of India).

So I don't see water demand being driven that much by the state's population growth, and per one paper I skimmed while trying to get better figures (one of them had a graph with labels like "Peak Sheep" :-), agricultural employment significantly dropped in the 1987-1997 period, after pretty much steady increases, no doubt due to increased automation. So less people in the sector to drink up water, in fact, I'm sure California is way past having sufficient potential agricultural workers (potential because welfare and other forms of grifting beats stoop labor).

I also have to wonder if the lifestyles of the lower class immigrants are as water intensive as the middle class and thereabouts; I don't know, but that's something else to factor in.

Anonymous Eric Ashley June 21, 2015 8:10 PM  

To protect Texas from California, institute everyone MUST carry laws.

Blogger Thucydides June 21, 2015 8:45 PM  

Since you "can't stop stupid" (well, actually you can, but it usually takes a firearm), the best mode of defense is to quietly decouple from the "grid". Some stuff you can do quite openly and the Progressives will not only never suspect, but even applaud you: Put solar panels on the roof and start a "victory garden" so you can become a "locavour" and you become a hero to them. Insulate your house to cut energy bills and they will be jumping up and down with excitement.

When the tax revenues go down because you are not buying as much stuff or paying utility bills, they (being innumerate) will not suspect that you were "going Galt" right in front of them, and run around in panic looking for the looters and wreckers.

Blogger Azimus June 21, 2015 8:46 PM  

Let's make the assumption that 7 million peoples (the old figure) could fully man the agricultural industry at more or less full capacity. What in the world are the other 32 million doing?

Blogger beerme #0183 June 21, 2015 8:47 PM  

Remember when all the environmental groups were screaming about over population and ZPG? Wonder where all their concern went when the entire 'crisis' is due to illegal aliens flooding the state?

David Gelbaum

Blogger Bobo #117 June 21, 2015 9:07 PM  

" Where are all the surplus Californians going?"

By rough eyeball estimates,Costa Rica.
We call it the 3 C's: Califiornia, Colorado & Canada. There here in droves.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going. The smart left a long time ago"

Blogger Bobo #117 June 21, 2015 9:08 PM  

" Where are all the surplus Californians going?"

By rough eyeball estimates,Costa Rica.
We call it the 3 C's: Califiornia, Colorado & Canada. There here in droves.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going. The smart left a long time ago"

Anonymous Jack Amok June 21, 2015 9:11 PM  

I think both of you are confused:

Don't call me confused if you're not even going to bother thinking through what I wrote. I pointed out that stating immigration is not to blame for CAs water woes and then going on to say the real problem is not keeping up with population growth is self-contradictory. If you need it spelled out, immigration contributes to population growth - significantly so in CAs case, where 27% of the population is foreign-born.

Now, in case you still think I'm confused after you've skimmed your paper, I'm quite aware of California's water situation, where it goes, where it comes from, what the debates have been over the years. Remember, I grew up there. Estimates are that CA is short maybe 2 million acre-feet of water, which is little less than 5% of the total state-wide water system capacity (around 42 million acre-feet).

Agricultural water use has declined from about 35 maf per year at the peak in 1980 to around 27 maf in 2005. Urban use steadily increased from about 3.5 maf in 1960 to almost 9 maf in 2005. Meanwhile something like 8 maf additional water has been "diverted" (or should that be un-diverted) to various environmental programs since 1996.

So, CA agriculture dropped it's use by about 8 maf, which was essentially redirected to environmental purposes, yet CA is still short 2maf water. Where did that come from? Ah, yes, there it is, 5.5 maf of additional urban water use. In 1960, CA had a population of 15.72 million. In 2005 (if you wonder why I use that year, it's the last I have good water usage numbers for, if you want to look you can probably find newer, but I did this exercise a few times over the years and it always works out roughly the same) in 2005 the population was about 36 million. Per-capital urban water use is up around 15% or so since 1960, so whether it's the new immigrants or the boomer children, the new population is using more water. (alternate explanation, per-captial water use is that same as 1960 but the population is really a little over 41 million, with an additional 5 million illegals not showing up in anyone's figures).

However you slice it, population growth is responsible for CAs water shortage, taking the state from marginally below full usage in 1960 to marginally above it in 2005. If the 10 million (officially counted) immigrants were sent packing, it would probably reduce urban use by about 2.5 maf - hey, shortage gone!

OTOH, if they stopped caring about the Delta Smelt and put those 8 maf back into use, they'd have enough water to import another 30 million illegals!

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2015 9:21 PM  

Amok. Great post. What will the libs choose, fish or illegals? Similar to choosing between feminism and multi-culturalism. Multi-culturalism being a synonym for immigration.

Blogger Stephen Ward June 21, 2015 9:36 PM  

@Bobo #117

Wow. that is insanely cheap. do you have any links for the setup?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 21, 2015 10:54 PM  

Remember when all the environmental groups were screaming about over population and ZPG?

Yeah, it turns out overpopulation is only a problem when it's people overpopulating their own countries. When they move to other countries and overpopulate there, that's a good and holy thing.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2015 8:56 AM  

The voices warning of overpopulation were bought off (see the David Gelbaum link above).

There was a battle for control of the Sierra Club over this very issue.  Gelbaum has allegedly declared that the SC will not get another penny from him if it returns to its former anti-immigration, ZPG stance.  Many members did not care and tried to wrest control of the board away from the money man's lackeys, but failed.  This is another example of what VDARE calls ADD:  Adelson Dollar Disorder.

In short, the destruction of California is another crime to be laid at the feet of our hostile elite, or should I say criminal elite?

Anonymous Viking June 22, 2015 9:20 AM  

I have always thought that Dune was a better story than Waterworld.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 22, 2015 11:49 AM  

IIRC Jerry Pournelle said that drought was a sign of Ice Ages not global warming. Makes sense.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2015 11:18 PM  

Pournelle is wrong.  The Sahara was a forest during the last ice age, and the Ogalala aquifer was filled.  The former has been trackless sand for thousands of years, and the latter is going dry.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2015 11:36 PM  

I get really ticked at criticisms of farmers using water.

How about "farmers using water that costs more than the value of their crops"?

Shut your f***ING pie hole you moron.

You first.

Much more important that you water you lawn or protect some damn fish than grow food you idiot?

The fish was there before your lawn or Central Valley irrigation.  What's more important:  that you grow food in California instead of elsewhere, or some long-established species continues to exist?  If the latter is discounted, why should your species continue to exist?

Damn we are stupid sometimes.

Especially when you don't think beyond the current growing season.

Jesus...we fantasize about terraforming mars but we can't terraform California

We can terraform Mars with perfluoromethane and SF6.  The same measures will de-terraform Earth.  Act accordingly.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 23, 2015 2:29 AM  

Pournelle is wrong. The Sahara was a forest during the last ice age, and the Ogalala aquifer was filled. The former has been trackless sand for thousands of years, and the latter is going dry.

You're dumber than a box of dry rocks. Weather patterns change and move where the water falls, but the Earth overall is wetter today than during the last glaciation. The Sahara was wetter when the monsoons dropped water on it, but 6000 years ago, the monsoon patterns changed and the rain started falling farther south.

When the earth is colder, there is less surface water to evaporate and less heat to evaporate it with. So there's less rainfall. Why do you hate science?

What's more important: that you grow food in California instead of elsewhere, or some long-established species continues to exist?

Do Mexicans qualify as a "long established species" in your book?

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 23, 2015 10:42 AM  

So what if the 'fish were there first'? They are fish. It's you leftist environnut bunches that believe in six day creation. The world is, was, and always will be just like the first moment you noticed it. Instead, you should realize that the snail darters, wolves in Manhattan, etc all will go extinct every damn species on this planet at one time was not and now is and will be gone again.

The world is not your static garden to remain the way you want it. And guess what? Let's say that hell those blue titted minnow darters even make it through the next two thousand years, they will at some point still go extinct and be replaced by something else.

There are no more sabertoothed tigers, elephants, camels, etc in the Americas. The rainforest I live in was not here a few thousand years ago and it will go away again.

And let's say for the sake of argument the entirely replaceable fish doesn't go extinct. In three thousand years it will have change enough to be a different species (or so our government would tell us). Then what? Do we kill off the new to protect the old?

The world changed, is changing, and will change. The only thing we can do is manage it the best we can for our own benefit right now. Because how the hell do we know what the future will hold or the next set of managers will want.

The world didn't begin when Columbus stepped off his little boat and it won't end when the next glaciers scrape Manhattan to bare gravel.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 23, 2015 1:49 PM  

When the earth is colder, there is less surface water to evaporate and less heat to evaporate it with.

Also less heat to evaporate water from land and freshwater surfaces.

So there's less rainfall.

Also less evaporation and transpiration from land, lakes and rivers.  This is why they tend to stay wet/icy instead of turning into dry deserts.  If things stay cool/cold enough, you can accumulate water/ice despite precipitation levels low enough to be considered desert (Antarctic ice cap).

Why do you hate science?

Ask yourself that question.  I'm sure these facts which debunk your position were known to you already, so the only reason you'd write it out and post it is because you're running with your brain turned off.  You are mooing with the herd, just like the SJWs you (say you) despise.

Do Mexicans qualify as a "long established species" in your book?

I think you need to look up the definition of "species".

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 23, 2015 4:29 PM  

(sigh) Censored, so must repost...

When the earth is colder, there is less surface water to evaporate and less heat to evaporate it with.

Also less heat to evaporate water from land and freshwater surfaces.

So there's less rainfall.

Also less evaporation and transpiration from land, lakes and rivers.  This is why they tend to stay wet/icy instead of turning into dry deserts.  If things stay cool/cold enough, you can accumulate water/ice despite precipitation levels low enough to be considered desert (Antarctic ice cap).

Why do you hate science?

Ask yourself that question.  I'm sure these facts which debunk your position were known to you already, so the only reason you'd write it out and post it is because you're running with your brain turned off.  You are mooing with the herd, just like the SJWs you (say you) despise.

Do Mexicans qualify as a "long established species" in your book?

I think you need to look up the definition of "species".

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 24, 2015 2:20 AM  

So what if the 'fish were there first'? They are fish.

So shouldn't the people who like to catch them and eat them, or preserve them for whatever else they do for the delta ecosystem, have precedence over the preferences of the people who'd just wipe them out in passing?

The cod fisheries of the North Sea and the Grand Banks (Newfoundland) were once amazingly productive.  Both have collapsed due to overfishing.  The livings people used to make from them... gone.  Are you willing to learn NOTHING from history, even recent history?

t's you leftist environnut bunches that believe in six day creation.

PROJEEEECK-SHUN!  If the delta smelt is God's own creation, doesn't that mean that humans have NO business wiping out that piece of His handiwork?

Instead, you should realize that the snail darters, wolves in Manhattan, etc all will go extinct every damn species on this planet at one time was not and now is and will be gone again.

If you were paying attention during this exercise, you'd realize that this is all about trying to restrain hubris:  humans once were not, and it behooves us to preserve the conditions that allow us to continue to exist.  If "indicator species" like the delta smelt are okay, conditions for us are very unlikely to be harmful.  But if you start losing 25000 species a year, 3 per hour... oh, wait, we are.

The world is not your static garden to remain the way you want it.

You don't get it.  The world's ecosystems operate in ways we barely understand.  Doing things that cause e.g. cod to be replaced by jellyfish are quite bad for us.  Doing ENOUGH things that are bad for us could go so far as to collapse civilization, or even drive the human species extinct.  I'd rather like humans to continue to exist; after all, everyone in the world that I care about is a human.  If I make sure that all our wild things are still okay, then our food things are probably okay as well and the conditions that let humans exist will continue.  But if those things are being lost, we're in unknown and dangerous territory.

let's say for the sake of argument the entirely replaceable fish

How do you know it's replaceable?  What can replace it, in all its functions and uses?  Be specific.

Looking at just my own land, I have seen the demise of the American chestnut, the American elm, and the almost-complete extinction of the American ash tree (only a few saplings to go).  There are new blights killing maples and oaks.  This was OUR doing, bringing those bugs and blights from overseas.  What's left of the American hardwood forests once these species are gone?  What replaces them, in all their functions and uses?

In three thousand years it will have change enough to be a different species (or so our government would tell us).

Even if you are correct (which you aren't), does that justify extinction?

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 24, 2015 3:13 PM  

Mr Rational - Please read for comprehension.

The fish are entirely replaceable by nature which will at sometime do so. No matter what you do. How do I know? Because there used to be another species there (that's how nature works and when the river dries up or is swallowed by another there'll be a different species again. Specific enough for you?

About the time to speciation? Well that's how long it took (actually sometime less than that) for the cut throat, and Rainbow to diverge from the fish in a neighboring lake when a landslide separated the two. The US govt. now determines them to be separate species. Argue with them if you want. And about that whole justifying extinction thing? Don't argue with me about argue with nature. It's going to happen.

About not understanding how eco systems work. Well you're wrong about that too. I worked for the park. I know how long it took for it to reach it's present stage and I know what will happen when the next ice age occurs. The world changes. This is not a garden and humans effects will and are dwarfed by nature. I watched St. Helens erupt twice, Man couldn't replicate the effects if we wanted to.

We've survived entire ice ages, giant caldera explosions, and meteor strikes. We'll survive anything humans can or will do. Go join the Club of Rome if you want to keep worrying about non-issues.

About your eighth grade girl spelling of projection, that's just embarrassing, unless you are an eighth grade girl then try to copy the grown ups not the other way around, anyway. If I were a young earth creationist, and a bible literalist. I would simply note that God gave man dominion over the earth to do with as he saw fit and He's going to remake it anyway.

As to who gets to do whatever use with the fish well that's complicated by water rights not by the fish. You want to preserve them? We've known how to hatchery raise fish productively for a long time now. You want them, catch all you want and preserve them. Domestication is a sure way to preserve and spread a species. Just ask cows. Shorter answer no you don't get first rights just because you want to look at the pretty fish or catch them and eat them. If you do really have to do both catch and release or maybe go the fisheries route the know how is already there and it is a mature industry.

As for fish just being fish, well they are just fish and if it comes to it people come first. So no you don't get to look at your pretty fish if somebody needs the water for drinking, growing crops or hygiene. Deal with it.

If you want broadleaf forest all over the Eastern US and convince everyone to go along with you more power to you. Just be aware there is a time limit to the northern section and that most of it will get scraped to gravel during the next ice age. Oh, and other species will probably replace a lot of what's there now. It's how it works. But knock yourself out. If you can convince people to reintroduce grizzlies to St. Louis, or camels, elephants, and lions to North America good on you.

I am arguing for more dams, reservoirs and water retention. I believe that'll increase the water for everyone including your Lucite preserved fish.

Anonymous Discard June 25, 2015 2:26 AM  

145 Don: It seems to me that fucking with systems you don't fully understand is short-sighted. We don't know if badly depleted aquifers will restore themselves. We don't know if the cod fisheries of the Grand Banks will ever come back. The fact that nature will make some change or other over a period of millennia is not a good reason for man to do the same thing in a few decades. If nothing else, a change effected over millennia allows plants and animals time to adjust.
To what purpose would you build more dams? To allow our population to equal China's? To provide cheap water for corporate farms? To give the invading 3rd Worlders something to drink? We have more than enough infrastructure to support all the useful Americans. Why should we invest in more than we need? To enrich government contractors? To build Section 8 housing? To keep the EBT cards working?
We have enough stuff, too much in fact. We are so addicted to more stuff that we have put ourselves in hock to China to get it. We have become a nation of Niggers.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 25, 2015 3:46 PM  

Discard - I agree with you on most points. I'm against everything you mentioned at the end, debt, increased pop, government crony handouts, etc.

There are some differences. I like dams and big infrastructure projects if done right. They are a patrimony we can pass to our posterity.

We'll never fully understand the complex cycles of nature. Maybe with honest models and something like quantum computers we could model nature and the effects we have but absent that we won't and can't know. So some things we'll have to do by our best estimates.

Now, I do not want our population to equal China's or even remain the same. I am a negative growth guy. We could easily be just as fine a nation with say 200,000,000 just to pull a number out of the air. I don't like cities.

I do want water for farms. Not necessarily corporate farms. I'd like to see family farms make a comeback but in my neck of the woods the Feds usually buy the family farms to pull them out of production and add them to 'wild areas' or 'wilderness'. IIRC most family farms are debt spirals that are doomed as long as they compete against the big boys. My grandparents quit agriculture for just that reason plus it's hard work.

We do have enough for 200 mil and for the most part it was our families' that built it. Smaller farms, neg pop growth, I'd be happy with all that.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 04, 2015 1:32 PM  

The fish are entirely replaceable by nature which will at sometime do so. No matter what you do.

Here I detect "God will provide no matter how much we fuck things up."  Evolution cannot replace a species if you've destroyed the environment that allows such a species to survive, and that is what's happening to the delta smelt.  When you eliminate such a species you create conditions for overgrowth of its food species and threaten any species that feed on it.

About the time to speciation? Well that's how long it took (actually sometime less than that) for the cut throat, and Rainbow to diverge from the fish in a neighboring lake when a landslide separated the two.

If you are able to wait 6 million years for the balance to be restored, sure.  It helps to have a species already filling the niche; if you've wiped everything out, it's going to take longer.

About not understanding how eco systems work. Well you're wrong about that too. I worked for the park.

Yet you don't understand that speciation takes lots of time, and that no new species can arise to fill a niche if the niche has been destroyed.

This is not a garden and humans effects will and are dwarfed by nature.

So we're back to "God will provide".

We've survived entire ice ages, giant caldera explosions, and meteor strikes. We'll survive anything humans can or will do.

History is full of examples of individuals, families, tribes and nations which had survived everything they'd done or had done to them, until one day they didn't.  To give just one example, the civilization of Sumer was brought down by irrigation which left salt in the soil until it couldn't grow anything anymore.  They did themselves in with ignorance.  You're claiming it can't happen to us.  That's known as "famous last words".

The whole point of preserving "indicator species" is that they show you when you're missing something.

As to who gets to do whatever use with the fish well that's complicated by water rights not by the fish.

The fish was there first and has first dibs on water rights.

You want to preserve them? We've known how to hatchery raise fish productively for a long time now. You want them, catch all you want and preserve them.

Not all species can be raised in captivity, and genetic drift under captive conditions is a problem even for those which can.  And what about the species which the smelt lives on, and which live on the smelt?  Do you just throw them away too, or let their populations get totally out of whack?

Tell you what.  If you've got a trout stream, let's just let industrial users dump their un-treated effluent into it and let you hatchery-raise trout if you want to have some.  You can put the nature you want to preserve into your own little museum at your own expense, and hang the rest.

I remember the brouhaha over Reagan's secretary of Interior supposedly saying that we shouldn't bother keeping giant redwoods in California, just have a couple and truck them around so everyone can see them.  I thought that was more or less a parody, but here you are, saying that the fish and everything associated with it should be in a museum so that some people can keep trying to grow water-hungry stuff in a desert.  Oh, and making me pay for it.  Screw that.

As for fish just being fish, well they are just fish and if it comes to it people come first.

You don't get that preserving the stuff that the fish needs also preserves the stuff that people need.  We don't need to grow non-desert stuff in deserts.  Propping up the land values of wealthy campaign donors is not my idea of a worthwhile expenditure.

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