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Wednesday, June 10, 2015

Peter Grant issues a second warning

Does Tor really want war to the knife? Peter Grant counsels action:
I've been . . . not astonished, really, because I've seen it all before, but . . . taken aback, at least, by the depth of ignorance, prejudice and blind, religious-fervor-style 'group-think' displayed by many of those arguing in favor of Ms. Irene Gallo's comments that precipitated the crisis concerning Tor....

Those tactics are not going to work in this case.  I've had enough.  So have many other people. Ms. Gallo's words were the last straw for us, as I explained in my earlier posts.  They're merely the latest example of a long-standing pattern of behavior by senior employees at Tor.  I'm not joking about my response, either.  I'm willing to give Tor a few days - a week at most - to rectify the situation and deal with all those involved, not just Ms. Gallo.  If the company fails to do so, I will call for a boycott of its products and publications . . . and I won't do so alone.  I've consulted with a large number of fellow authors and other individuals about this over the past few days.  There are some influential figures involved, as Tor may soon find out to its cost.

If that happens, some readers may be surprised to learn how widespread is the anger and bitterness that has built up during the past few months and years concerning the individuals I've identified at Tor.  Their conduct and attitudes have become inseparably intertwined in the minds of many - including myself - with the conduct and attitudes of their employer.  We don't believe they can be separated.  It's for Tor to prove us wrong . . . but I suspect that's not about to happen, because to my mind - our minds - Tor really is standing behind them, despite Mr. Doherty's attempts to distinguish between the company and its senior staff.

I truly hope it doesn't come to a boycott . . . but if it does, so be it.  We no longer have anything to lose by acting.  Tor, on the other hand, risks losing everything by not acting.  I say that as a former director of companies, with post-graduate business education and a good understanding of the financial pressures on Tor and companies like it.  (Yes, individuals at 'some companies' do talk about such things to outsiders, particularly when they're also angry over what's happening internally.  The numbers are . . . interesting.)

Your move, Tor . . . for a short time.  I truly hope you make the right one before it's too late.
The Evil Legion of Evil has not yet called for a boycott by the many Tor customers attacked by Ms Gallo. It has, after all, only been two days since the management at Tor Books learned about her attack on them. But the one thing they must understand is that an apology is not enough. We expect a resignation.

Sooner or later, Ms Gallo will resign. It's only a question of how much damage Tor Books, and perhaps more importantly, Macmillan, are willing to take first.

Meanwhile, John C. Wright clarifies a previous statement:
A reader asked what I meant when I said, that as a matter of formality, Irene Gallo’s pro forma and possibly insincere apology for her pro-forma and possibly insincerely insult satisfied my sense of honor.

It is difficult for me to explain something that is second nature to me, which is alien to the modern world at every point. In the military, the soldier is obligated to salute the uniform wore by officers of higher rank, not the man wearing it, and the man wearing it is obligated to behave as the uniform requires. The salute satisfies the formality.

An apology satisfies the demand for apology; if the person proffer it did so with deceptive intent, God Almighty, who sees and knows the hearts of the sinners, will punish the falsehood with penalties nightmarish, vehement, absolute, and infinite, that my heart quails to contemplate them. I cannot burn a disembodied soul in hell forever, and neither can I read minds and hearts. Hence, I am not in a position judge the sincerity of an apology, nor do I have the least desire to do so.

Honor is an external thing, a matter of form. If the form is satisfied, honor is satisfied. Refusing an apology on the grounds of it insincerity is a privilege reserved to women.

In the case of Irene Gallo, I do not need any further words from her, nor does she owe me anything more. I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her.

Labels: ,

195 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous June 10, 2015 8:41 AM  

As a loyal minion, I will also be contacting the military MWR libraries and defense commissaries who stock Tor books and informing them of Tor's/Gallo's stated views toward serving authors and the customer base. Tor sells a lot of hard copy through these Defense outlets.

JT - #00096

Blogger Kull June 10, 2015 8:45 AM  

It looks like the establishment set is going all in and declaring Gallo a feminist martyr. Yeah. Feminism. It won't quit until no woman anywhere can be criticized for anything ever. Because that's equality!

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 8:46 AM  

It would appear that the point has come where conservatives/reactionaries have gotten tired of firing for opinions being a one-way street, and have fully committed to making sure the knife cuts both ways.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 10, 2015 8:47 AM  

It would appear JCW expects a resignation as well.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey VFM #337 June 10, 2015 8:49 AM  

Surely by now they should know that the Legion does not bluff. They know not themselves nor their enemy. Let them twist in their ignorance and vacillation.

We Don't Care.

Anonymous Hong Hu Shi June 10, 2015 8:53 AM  

I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her.

Heh heh heh...

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 8:56 AM  

People have been archiving the Tor thread on archive.is. It's a treasure trove of rabbitry.

Taking Mr Wright's lead, if and when she offers an appropriate apology I'll accept it in the same vein. I doubt I'll ever unlearn all the socialist propaganda the culture pushed on me throughout childhood, but I'm trying.

Anonymous AlteredFate #92 June 10, 2015 9:06 AM  

Join the Vile Faceless Minions and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 10, 2015 9:13 AM  

I'm willing to give Tor a few days - a week at most - to rectify the situation and deal with all those involved, not just Ms. Gallo.

He makes an important point here: this is not one maverick employee saying something out-of-line that came as a shock to her bosses. I'm not in the business, but to an outside observer, it looks like she was expressing the attitude of Tor management in general, and just got caught being unusually honest about it. It won't be enough to accept her resignation and try to pass it off as one person screwing up and now that she's gone everyone should forget about it. Management also needs to disavow her position, which may require getting rid of other people who clearly have the same attitude even though they may be more careful with their words.

That will infuriate their SJW friends and supporters who expect Tor to die on this hill for them, so they're going to have to do their best to triangulate that somehow.

Blogger Alexander June 10, 2015 9:18 AM  

Even if one were to set aside Mr. Wright's concepts of honor and professionalism - one can't expect those on the side of darkness to comprehend the light...

... you would at least think the bloody idiots could recognize that he is a newspaperman, a gem of a writer, oh, and a bloody lawyer.

I understand that record breaking nominations + Christian = a signal to attack they literally cannot ignore... but you'd think at some point, somewhere, one of them would look at the credentials and figure there's if you're only avenue to attack us publicly is through words, there's got to be a softer target out there.

Blogger darkdoc June 10, 2015 9:19 AM  

Join the Vile Faceless Minions and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship.

Would you like to know more?


I don't care who you are - now that's funny.

Anonymous Earl June 10, 2015 9:19 AM  

Doug Wilson has a good article on apologies used as weapons. Search his name + a theology of apology.

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 9:31 AM  

"I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her."


Where's BlackKnight??

C'mon out sugarbritches... we want to hear all about how Mr Wright will stab us in the back.

Anonymous Mignon510 (VFM #243) June 10, 2015 9:39 AM  

Having read the comments at the Tor site, my heart has hardened against the SJWs. As far as I am concerned, this is definitely "war to the knife" now.

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 9:42 AM  

The saga continues at http://www.themarysue.com/tor-irene-gallo/

They claim they reached out to Gallo and Tor for further comment, but make no mention of reaching out to Vox Day or John C Wright, whom they libel (slander?) in the hit piece. The comments, of course, are hilariously hypocritical.

Blogger rcocean June 10, 2015 9:43 AM  

Gosh has it really come to this? A boycott seems pretty radical. Do we really want to stoop to their level? Wouldn't Jesus turn the other cheek? Plus, I don't want to do anything that isn't 100 percent guaranteed of success, so will the boycott succeed?

I see so many problems. I think people need to moderate and be careful and remember, what about the children?

Blogger Raggededge June 10, 2015 9:43 AM  

Vox left off the ending of Mr. Wright's statement...do yourself a favor and go over and read it.

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 9:46 AM  

All this Christian talk about forgiveness and God taking retribution at some future point, combined with talk about how we might do something about it in a few days, well....

It's squishy, guys.

I used to be hard-left. Let me assure you you are not impressing anyone at this point.

An organized campaign to shut out all things Tor, including all of their authors, is the only vehicle that will work. I've seen companies put left-wing politics ahead of the bottom line all the time, especially NYC-based companies. The fact that they didn't immediate fire Gallo speaks volumes.

I hate to say this, but we're being too nice. And this talk about honor and some uniform Gallo is wearing that demands respect is making me sick.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 10, 2015 9:52 AM  

Jesus did not call on us to be nice, He demands that we be good.

He also made a whip out of thorns, and beat the day lights out of the money changers at the Temple. Oh, and called the leaders of the day vipers, rotting flesh, full of dung, and a host of other things.

Jesus was not nice. He is Good. He did not tell the woman caught in adultry "keep it up! Who am I to judge you!" He said "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more!".

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 10, 2015 9:59 AM  

@rcocean

There are the children, but have you thought of the poor people with foot fungus in Sub Saharan Africa as well? What Would Bono Do?

Blogger Salt June 10, 2015 9:59 AM  

TOR's image is being tarnished by some of its senior employees. A boycott by readers is one thing, which I find problematic as to effect, but what about their authors' associations with TOR?

Lose an author and that's a 100% boycott; no readers for you, TOR. TOR's actions are damaging to itself, but they also damage their authors, and that's arguably a breach of (fiduciary?) duty to contracts.

Readers have some power, but it's the authors who hold the cards.

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 10:08 AM  

"It's squishy, guys.

I used to be hard-left. Let me assure you you are not impressing anyone at this point."

Jourdan... child... have you no faith?

What have ever half-assed? Did we half-ass the Hugo awards?

Upon what grounds do you assert that we are half-assing this?

Gird up you loins. Hold your staff in your hand. Put sandals on your feet and eat your meal in a hurry.

Victory is coming.

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 10:09 AM  

I hear you, Nate, and I understand. I'm just fighting mad and in no mood for honor or saluing the uniform. I want to kick their asses and drink their mother-fucking milkshakes.

Blogger Alexander June 10, 2015 10:14 AM  

All in due time. Every single time that Vox says 'hold your fire' it hasn't been because he would weep bitter tears if he did not give them one more chance to parley...

... it's to ensure that they all step boldly into the kill zone.

Anonymous Stilicho June 10, 2015 10:14 AM  

Get your straw ready

Anonymous Anonymous June 10, 2015 10:15 AM  

>> All this Christian talk about forgiveness and God taking retribution at some future point, combined with talk about how we might do something about it in a few days, well....

The right needs to either remember, or realize something, depending on the person:
Ghandi's tactics work against THE BRITISH.
Ghandi's tactis would NOT have worked against the Soviets or the Chinese.

Do you think the SJW's are more like the British, or more like the Soviets?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 10, 2015 10:15 AM  

This is exactly like what has happened in the video game journalism industry. A year ago, they were writing about how gamers are dead (nothing like telling the lifeblood of paycheck that they're dead) and now they are scrambling to unionize in the face of mass layoffs.

The Scifi/Fantasy publishers are looking like they will be in the same situation in short order. The Hugo awards are going to be very interesting to watch this year.

Blogger Nikis-Knight June 10, 2015 10:16 AM  

I'm pretty much the only one who buys books of new authors for my wife, a voracious fantasy reader but creature of habit. When u land upon one she likes, we end up buying a lot of that author (ebook format has been a godsend for space reasons alone) . We won't be trying new Tor authors anytime soon. (We both liked One Bright Star, but she finds Novellas in general to end frustratingly quick, so feel free to write a novel length sequel, John.)

Anonymous Minion #0172 June 10, 2015 10:17 AM  

"...but it's the authors who hold the cards."

I'm sure most if not all of Tor's authors have contracts they're legally bound to, so we cannot expect to see many immediate disassociations by their stable.

I wonder, though, would a loss of writers make Scalzi and the remaining, presumably solid SJWs all, more valuable? Or would the diminished revenues force economies that result in lower advances, fewer book tours, and perhaps trigger "out" clauses in existing contracts?

I'm interested in the opinions of those in publishing.

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 10:20 AM  

@26. Anon. - Yes, exactly, nail, hammer, head, you got it. One appeals to a Briton's sense of honor and fair play. One shoots a commissar.

Blogger Alexander June 10, 2015 10:21 AM  

Hey, fun fact. It's interesting what you can glean from wikipedia when you know what games they play there.

So, the "Tor Books" wikipedia page has a section of 'notable authors'.

That list of authors is in alphabetical order, except one name shunted to position #2, almost exactly opposite of where it should be.

Name that author!

Blogger VFM 188* June 10, 2015 10:21 AM  

"Gird up you loins. Hold your staff in your hand."

And don't forget your rod. Hold that in your hand too. And to gird yourself, always remember...

We don't care.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 10:24 AM  

My take - We're still recruiting from the middle and the Tor.com thread has brought about a few people to our side. Their initial freak out attempt in the MSM was a disaster (retract! retract! retract!) so that route seems closed to them and one of their bastions is under attack and the only sane options for dealing with it are anathema to them. I want them to keep screaming their vitriol until every sane person has heard it. Our frustration pales in comparison to their blinding rage. They're in the middle of committing a major error. Stand back and enjoy the show.

Blogger VFM 188* June 10, 2015 10:27 AM  

Doing so...popcorn in hand.

Blogger Nikis-Knight June 10, 2015 10:29 AM  

Say, how hard would it be to make a palemoon browser plug in that blocks tor books on amazon?

Anonymous DeepThought June 10, 2015 10:31 AM  

@ Quizzer W

Marysue and other sites block people whom they disagree with. I am blocked and I used no profanity or other insulting comments. I just pointed out Vox was part American Indian and Hispanic and white liberals should check their white privilege.

So considering they block comments, that go against their world narrative, this site should be avoided or blocked by us to avoid giving these weaklings a podium to espouse their garbage.

Blogger Nate Winchester June 10, 2015 10:32 AM  

It would appear that the point has come where conservatives/reactionaries have gotten tired of firing for opinions being a one-way street, and have fully committed to making sure the knife cuts both ways.

Ugh, and I hate it. Still, war is upon us whether we like it or not. It is time we heed the words of the Sisko: "We're losing the peace - which means a war could be our only... hope."

People have been archiving the Tor thread on archive.is. It's a treasure trove of rabbitry.

Which tor thread you referring to? Links and/or highlights?

OpenID michaeltho June 10, 2015 10:32 AM  

In general, I am sort of apolitical, or at least try to be. I imagine if you really nailed down my beliefs, I would probably be pretty far on the other side of the ideological spectrum from you guys, so my take on all of this is a little different. What I am is an amateur writer who works pretty hard to make the transition to professional writer. So my take on all of this is likely to be a little bit different than most of yours, which seem to be mostly fueled by ideology and/or negative emotion. My take is as an aspirant, who might want to submit to TOR in the future.

The issue that I have now is that Irene Gallo has publicly decried that work of authors who she was presumably supporting, calling their work 'bad to reprehensible.' Bad is one thing. I suppose no matter who you are, there will be people with whom you collaborate who do not think your work is the best and only do the work necessary to collect their paycheck. And that is well and good. Reprehensible is another thing entirely. That implies she believes the work of at least some of her collaborators to be morally repugnant. And apparently she opted to use Facebook as the forum to let those feelings be known.

As an aspiring writer, how can I submit to them, knowing this? How could I possibly trust that they will have the best interests of my career at heart or even be honest enough to tell me this is how they feel about it? That is the problem. When you are in the position of having little to no power in business transactions, which is the case when you are in the process of submitting and submitting and submitting, hoping that someone will bite. When that bite finally comes, how can you possibly turn it down... even if you are in a position of doubting the people who bit on it?

I think this may be a long term problem for TOR. I suspect that there are probably others out there like me right now who are watching this and having their own doubts about submitting to the company. I doubt it will really affect the number of submissions they receive, but numbers of submissions are never really the problem for any publishing house. They will continue to get submissions. However if they just alienated 3 authors of future blockbusters and convinced them to submit elsewhere, there's no way to calculate the damage done.

Blogger Nikis-Knight June 10, 2015 10:33 AM  

Blocks then from being displayed to you, I mean, nothing about Amazon's servers implied.

Blogger Dexter June 10, 2015 10:35 AM  

Honor is an external thing, a matter of form. If the form is satisfied, honor is satisfied.

A transparently insincere apology does not satisfy honor. Indeed, honor demands rejection of an insincere apology, as it is a lie and an insult to one's intelligence.

Blogger Chad June 10, 2015 10:37 AM  

Here's an up beat song for the Ilk to listen to while watching the scrambling around.

Run Little Rabbit by Cab Calloway
http://youtu.be/BWFI4HwCPzc

Anonymous Earl June 10, 2015 10:37 AM  

For Christians squeamish about boycotts:

Were doing this in love for Tor, that they would repent and be set apart for good from evil, so that they may return to the fellowship instead of being turned as unto the devil. May our prodigal publisher put aside the whores gamblers and swine and return to their father. God save Tor!

Anonymous Better Dead than Red June 10, 2015 10:39 AM  

"Honor is an external thing, a matter of form. If the form is satisfied, honor is satisfied."

The Japanese loved to wax about honor in dubya-dubya-two. Didn't do shit against A-Bombs.

In 4GW being honorable is how to get killed. Or ...when it comes to SJWs... fired, enslaved, emasculated, manipulated, etc.

Anonymous The other robot June 10, 2015 10:39 AM  

As an aspiring writer, how can I submit to them, knowing this? How could I possibly trust that they will have the best interests of my career at heart or even be honest enough to tell me this is how they feel about it?

Aren't you making a mistake in thinking that a publisher of that sort is going to have your interests at heart in a shrinking market?

What they care about is their continued existence and I would think that unless you present as a megastar author that fits within their ideological framework on your first submission they won't have much interest in you.

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 10:46 AM  

The social justice warriors are going to win. Recently I was perusing the book store at Valparaiso University, and found the book "Why Social Justice Matters."--Brian Barry This in a Lutheran university. This cause, which I had never even heard of has become the fervent belief of fanatics. It has already replaced the gospel of Christ, in liberal religious churches. And this has been happening for a long time. I've just had my head in the sand.

I've watched my beloved stated of Indiana fall to mobs of these radicals. Now I am watching the United States wax ecstatic over Bruce Jenner cross-dressing. I've watched full blown men, who claim to be hetero, gasp in homosexual proclamations at how "HOT" Bruce Jenner looks. I've watched women state in awe, that Bruce Jenner is more beautiful than themselves. When would any woman claim such a thing as that? It seems to be time to "abandon our gardens and go home."

Blogger Daniel June 10, 2015 10:46 AM  

Jourdan, JCW does business with Tor. There is a hierarchy and his sense of honor is satisfied in the saluting of the uniform. Especially considering that it's wearer is about to be stripped of it, this should be of no concern to you. No one is saying you are obligated to the uniform.

Anonymous Mike M. (minion #315) June 10, 2015 10:47 AM  

All together now...

Sep-pu-ku! Sep-pu-ku! Sep-pu-ku!

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 10:48 AM  

DeepThought,

Aye, but as the article had some libelous assertions, folks here may want to be aware of it. And as some of the VFMs enjoy watching harpies rending their prey, it may be of interest. Also, the article is an excellent example with which to ask moderates: gee, that's an interesting point of view you have about us. Perhaps you'd like to ask the other side (see this link), or see what the other side says, before you condemn us with your "knowledge" of the whole affair.

And some of us have a sarcastic comic to write, and thus must venture to the wellspring in order to find material...

Blogger J June 10, 2015 10:49 AM  

actually, I think JCW wrote that with a twinkle in his eye. After all, he does expect to work with Gallo's successor. And note the sly insult hidden under what appears to be a sweeping statement about women. Why make a fuss about rejecting an apology when you can accept it and go for bigger game?

Blogger David The Good from FloridaSurvivalGardening.com June 10, 2015 10:51 AM  

@michaeltho

You may do better by "faking it 'til you make it" in your writing.

My goal is to become the #1 garden writer in the world. When I launched my blog, I wrote as if I was already an accomplished expert. In a way I was, since I had already been experimenting with gardening for years; however, no one knew who I was. After a year, though, I started getting offered teaching and writing gigs. Then I was approached by some bigger folks, including a prepper publisher. You have to just jump in and do your best and assume you're going to make it and that people want to read what you write. If they don't, keep tweaking. I'm still nobody... but I'm a nobody with a lot of readers. Tor is on its way out. Write good stuff and self-publish. Read lots of stuff on marketing and self-market. You will succeed if your writing is at least half-decent.

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 10:52 AM  

45. Guest

Do not give in to despair. Pull up your big boy panties and join the fight, or quietly retreat to the sandbox where you won't be in our way.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 10, 2015 10:52 AM  

michaeltho,

Submit your stuff to Castalia House. If it's good SF/F, they'll take it, politics be damned. You'll make better money, you'll have automatic access to the Dread Ilk as an audience, and they won't treat you like shit.

Just think about how nice it would be not to be treated like shit.

Blogger Anthony June 10, 2015 10:52 AM  

Like one of Mr. Wright's commenters, I'm not convinced that Gallo's apology met the forms required by the dictates of honor. Tom Doherty's apology meets, if not exceeds, the requirements.

OpenID michaeltho June 10, 2015 10:52 AM  

"Aren't you making a mistake in thinking that a publisher of that sort is going to have your interests at heart in a shrinking market?"

I don't have any illusions about them, (or anyone for that matter), coddling me along and nurturing me until I blossom like a butterfly. I'm pretty sure that any publishing house, including Castalia House, would operate under the same general principles that you laid out, which is, 'I think this guy is going to make me a ton of money, so I'm going to buy his stuff' or 'I don't like the first 4 paragraphs of this, so I'm going to send him a form letter.'

That's not the real issue to me. My concerns at the very least operate under the assumption that at some point, I will be a relatively marketable entity with something resembling a career. My issue at that point is that if I've chosen the wrong horse to ride from the outset and the publishing house is managed by people like Irene Gallo, who might be telling me one thing to my face, but not putting their full weight behind my work in favor of writers they favor more for reasons that have nothing to do with the work itself, then I've basically placed a terminal point on how far my career might go before it ever starts.

That may seem like a ridiculous thing to worry about at this point, but this isn't the '30's, 40's, or 50's anymore. This is an era when people are very, very open and public about their ideological leanings and the fights they pick. If I were, to example, be published by Castalia House, I would immediately probably cut off a massive portion of my potential audience right there for no other reason than they were the ones that picked me. Now, with TOR, it might be the same thing. There are very few real options at this point, other than to just go it alone and put it up on Amazon, which means that you're hoping to be spotted in a sea of crap.

It does not help to go in thinking that even the people who bought my book in this shrinking market might not really give a crap about its success simply because there are others in the pipeline who fit their ideal better.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 10:53 AM  

Jourdan, JCW does business with Tor.

Exactly. When you are in a business relationship with someone, you don't draw first blood.

And note the assumption in Wright's acceptance of the apology that not only will Gallo be fired, but that this is so obvious to not even be worth mentioning. He accepts the apology in terms of the spiritual, not the practical.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 10, 2015 10:54 AM  

Guest, 45,

No, they are not going to win. Eating the seed corn isn't a win, no matter who says so. They may succeed in destroying the nation, and Western civilization, but their shiny utopia will end in filth and fire.

In other words, we may all lose, but they won't win.

Blogger David The Good from FloridaSurvivalGardening.com June 10, 2015 10:57 AM  

guest: "abandon our gardens"

NEVER ABANDON YOUR GARDENS

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 10:57 AM  

Okay, well the writing is on the wall. I'll just place "Gallo fired" next to "Greece Leaves Euro."

Blogger Feather Blade June 10, 2015 10:59 AM  

I've watched full blown men, who claim to be hetero, gasp in homosexual proclamations at how "HOT" Bruce Jenner looks. I've watched women state in awe, that Bruce Jenner is more beautiful than themselves.

Here's the only response you need:

"It's amazing what you can do with Photoshop, isn't it?"

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 11:01 AM  

"The social justice warriors are going to win. Recently I was perusing the book store at Valparaiso University, and found the book "Why Social Justice Matters."--Brian Barry This in a Lutheran university."

Go to bed old woman.

The menfolk are talking.

Blogger Daniel June 10, 2015 11:02 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Daniel June 10, 2015 11:02 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous physics geek June 10, 2015 11:03 AM  

In the case of Irene Gallo, I do not need any further words from her, nor does she owe me anything more. I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her.

This might be my favorite sentence that Mr. Wright has ever written.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 11:04 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 11:05 AM  

@Nate Winchester - I was referring to the Doherty statement. I just tried to archive again but it wouldn't grab the comments this time.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster June 10, 2015 11:07 AM  

'I'll just place "Gallo fired" next to "Greece Leaves Euro."'

Greece will leave the Euro sooner or later, because it can't remain in the Euro unless the Germans keep working hard to send money to Greece so the Greeks don't have to work hard. Of course, 'later' may still be several years from now.

As for Gallo, Tor seem to be in 'let's try to find a compromise' mode, and are presumably just realizing that there's no way to find a compromise between one side who'll only be satisfied if she's sacked and another who'll only be satisfied if the company stands resolutely behind her. Their choices now are to pick a side, or run to the Torbunker and hope it all blows over.

Which it won't.

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 11:08 AM  

David the Good. I just bought your book too! You're right! That would be letting good money go to waste. I CANNOT abandon my garden! I MUST not abandon my garden. My garden shall NOT be abandoned!

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 11:11 AM  

I've watched full blown men, who claim to be hetero, gasp in homosexual proclamations at how "HOT" Bruce Jenner looks. I've watched women state in awe, that Bruce Jenner is more beautiful than themselves.

Which are obvious lies.

It's obvious that Jenner is in the uncanny valley regarding his appearance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

The reason that the SJWs work so hard to suppress speech is that most people don't buy into their bullshit, but keep silent out of fear of being ostracized. However, they are losing control of the means of communication.

A lot of what people state as their beliefs are actually just what they think is socially acceptable. Once they realize that other people share their beliefs they will cease espousing the old beliefs and switch.

I also think that a lot of people, including a lot of SJWs, believe what they do because it is socially acceptable. There beliefs are held solely because it allows them to belong to a group. They haven't really thought about those beliefs. And I think most SJWs would switch to being Brown Shirts in a second if they saw it as socially advantageous. Hell, they already use Brown Shirt tactics.

They would turn Nazi in a second.
http://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

Anonymous Max June 10, 2015 11:13 AM  

"I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her."

And boom goes the dynamite.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 11:14 AM  

They would turn Nazi in a second.

And they would be self-righteous about it.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 11:15 AM  

From the Tor thread:
387. Russell B. Farr Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:41am 1 Favorite [+]
#jesuisgallo


Sweet Baby Jesus, let this catch on!

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 10, 2015 11:15 AM  

Vox - I left a comment on Tor's blog yesterday as you suggested. Aside from not buying any of Tor's books, what else can be done to put pressure on them now?

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 11:18 AM  

Another dynamic in the Tor mess is that Mr. Doherty may be looking for new opportunities in the publishing industry after the parent company sees the way he has handled this. I'd be shocked if that knowledge didn't weigh in to whatever step Tor takes next.

Blogger David The Good from FloridaSurvivalGardening.com June 10, 2015 11:18 AM  

@ guest

Thank you very much. Semper hortus fi.

@ michaeltho

You're worrying too much. Full speed ahead. Live is too short to be concerned about everything. Just write, write, write and get it out there no matter what. Self-published is better than not published.

OpenID michaeltho June 10, 2015 11:23 AM  

David The Good from FloridaSurvivalGardening.com:

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. You're probably right. I can't control what I can't control and what I should be focused on is getting it out there.

Blogger IM2L844 June 10, 2015 11:25 AM  

While perusing the Twitter, it became clear that militant SJWs prefer suicide to course correction

Blogger Alexander June 10, 2015 11:30 AM  

Hmm, another little gem: the citation the wikipedia uses to notable authors of Tor takes you to Macmillan homepage. One notes that in that list of 'our notable authors through Tor', Scalzi isn't mentioned at all.

So someone at wiki took the list that they cited, cut out a couple of the authors that were listed, alphabetized it, then added John Scalzi to the front just because.

I suppose its possible that Scalzi was listed as a notable author when the list was made, and they have since removed him from the Tor/Forge page at macmillian.com. but if that's the case... that sounds like an interesting story.

Blogger Feather Blade June 10, 2015 11:31 AM  

I'm in for $10 if she's not gone within a month of making them. Anyone want to take the other side of that bet?

Doesn't this mean that you've lost already, since she made those comments a month ago?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 10, 2015 11:32 AM  

Which are obvious lies.

Yes. With, presumably, the best plastic surgeons, and the assistance of the best makeup and lighting people for magazine shoots, Bruce Jenner still looks like a man in drag. If anything, he should serve as a cautionary tale for any men out there who are in such emotional pain and sexual confusion that they think they'd be better off as women: Dude, you're still going to look like a guy, only creepy. And if you think it's hard to deal with people now, wait until they're all telling you how "cute" you look and you can see the lie in their eyes.

Anonymous anonimo June 10, 2015 11:36 AM  

Peter who?

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 10, 2015 11:38 AM  

Surely by now they should know that the Legion does not bluff.

They think we are merely saying we will not buy more sci fi, but not that their hypocrisy can be used against them. Consider the difference in the effects of a boy cot between me simply saying I will not pick up an black tranny hookers versus reminding people that the NYC outbreak on encephalitis that followed Hurricane Sandy was traced back to one bath house, which reminds people actions can still have consequences.

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 11:39 AM  

"Doesn't this mean that you've lost already, since she made those comments a month ago?"

No. You have to start the timer from when the shitstorm started.

Anonymous BGS June 10, 2015 11:39 AM  

sorry meant pink sci fi

Blogger Jack Ward June 10, 2015 11:40 AM  

Peter Grant seems like a rock solid guy. Good for him. We need all those types of thinkers that can be found. I'm adding his site to my desktop.

Anonymous Gecko June 10, 2015 11:42 AM  

I disagree with the premise that an apology was given to those attacked. At best, an apology was only given to a subset of those attacked. It's posible that subset does not even exist. This is a matter of logic before it can be a matter of honor. Honor demands that she answer for the entire scope of her offense.

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 11:52 AM  

Ron Winkleheimer: Using the term "uncanny valley" is being kind. Bruce Jenner is ugly. He has gotten more and more ugly as his dysphoria, and probable autogynephilia, combined with all of the money in the world, can make him. If he were a real woman, I would be ashamed to attack him. I loathe his fake female voice, and his fake female mannerisms. Cross-dressers are always over the top, when they mimic women. What to Christian fundamentalists, Muslims and TERFS (radical feminists) have in common? The shared drive to keep these sick men out of their private dressing places. And yet, even combined we all seem to be drowning in this wave of trans-worshipping hysteria. Ms. Gallo, I am quite positive would label every one of us as neo-nazis.

Anonymous Bz June 10, 2015 11:52 AM  

Tom Doherty disavows Gallo. But what about the views of the several other Tor employees who have made similar statements, such as PNH? Some clarification is needed.

Furthermore, it would be useful if Doherty could also clarify the editorial policy on work that belongs to 'the other side'. For example, will such authors be rejected or otherwise unfairly treated because of their political views?

Anonymous Bz June 10, 2015 11:53 AM  

PS. On an entirely different topic I'm happy to see that the captcha now has been resized into something legible.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 10, 2015 11:58 AM  

I love John's style in this.
I asked him a question and he writes an essay to reply in full detail which also educates me on theological points, as well as answer the original question.

Mr. Wright has rare class. Thank you, sir.

Anonymous Lana June 10, 2015 11:59 AM  

As for Gallo, Tor seem to be in 'let's try to find a compromise' mode

This. This is the time for the concern trolls and tone police to do their work to engineer the cease fire that always saves the SJW when our side is on the move. The conciliatory conservatives who will back down, attack their own side and do "the right thing" because we are not like them and will not stoop to their level. What is happening is the SJWs are slowly realizing we will do nothing of the sort, but they have nothing in their arsenal except double down so they are flailing about.

Blogger Shimshon June 10, 2015 12:00 PM  

"Tom Doherty disavows Gallo. But what about the views of the several other Tor employees who have made similar statements, such as PNH? Some clarification is needed."

If (when) Gallo goes, the repercussions for those who remain will, for the short term at least, be quite potent. PNH's offensiveness will be constrained. Scalzi, as a Tor author but not employee, not as much. But I am sure the message will be received by him too.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 10, 2015 12:02 PM  

This is not a anger or bitterness matter, this is Ms. Gallos failed professionalism and outright poor choice of words. There is no emotionalism involved, there are no hearts in involved, this is a serious industry issue that no one at Tor for, was it 1 to 2 weeks (?) said nothing about, to repeat, no one flinched, did nothing.

We are past the point of any conversation about a apology, I request a resignation.

I request a re-print of Ms. Gallo's comments with every update post associated with this.

As for Honor, I doubt there is any Honor present therefore the female imperative suggest nothing will be done by Ms. Gallo or Tor
as a 2nd warning, grievance was expressed.

We all wish everyone to be honorable, healthy, productive, etc., but Gallo's comments were not honorable.

Blogger Shimshon June 10, 2015 12:04 PM  

Sorry, that should be McRapey or Jonny Con.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW June 10, 2015 12:06 PM  

Thanks to Vox I found out about Peter Grant's latest novel.

Castalia should sign him up.

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 12:10 PM  

Shimshon - I'll take that bet: $10 bucks to me if Gallo stays at Tor, $10 bucks to you if Gallo quits/fired/resigns from Tor.

Now, deadline for bet determination? How about June 19?

Blogger Rabbi B June 10, 2015 12:11 PM  

"I disagree with the premise that an apology was given to those attacked."

I disagree with the premise that it was an apology. Can we call it something else other than what it is most certainly was not?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 12:11 PM  

@guest

Yeah, Jenner's looks are pretty horrifying. And that is why I think we are coming to a tipping point. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but at some point people are going to start pushing back.

In fact some have. That's why Chick-fil-a got so much support as well as Duck Dynasty. Most of this stuff is being pushed from a political class and their sycophants. It cannot go on forever.

Anonymous RF June 10, 2015 12:17 PM  

" What to Christian fundamentalists, Muslims and TERFS (radical feminists) have in common? The shared drive to keep these sick men out of their private dressing places. "

Not necessarily true. In Iran the mullahs reached the conclusion that people can be born with the wrong gender and so man-on-man sex is legal as long as there has been some surgery first. As a result Iran is one of the countries with the most "sex change" operations per capita in the world, IIRC only behind Thailand. Presumably because a lot of gay men figures it is better to be able to have sex with no penis and fake tits than not either not having gay sex at all or having gay sex and risk being slowly hanged.

I don't know the implications for dressing rooms, but the policy is that any man that wants to become a woman must have the surgery. So that probably keeps down the number of straight pervs that in the words of Ramz Paul just want to exercise their basic human right as women to show other women their penis.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 10, 2015 12:18 PM  

Ms Gallo's apology was got hurting feelings, IIRC. So, if your feeling were hurt I can see where J.C. Wright's exposition has some merit.
Has Ms. Gallo acknowledged her calumny and asked for fogiveness of all whom she targeted?
I am on the road to St. Louis, from Houston. That is as long I am willing to wait for the not-forthcoming real apology.

Blogger Shimshon June 10, 2015 12:18 PM  

Jourdan, I said one month from last Sunday (7 June). So I'll accept 7 July or accept a "four week" month and give you 5 July.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 10, 2015 12:20 PM  

Doherty disavowing Gallo would mean firing her. She is an associate publisher. That's not the guy pushing broom in the lobby or the guy sorting mail in the basement. It's a face of the company.

It's past time Doherty to step in (if he really disagrees with the smear campaign) he should have stepped in when someone at Tor made a simultaneous press release smearing the puppies to everyone from Entertainment to The Guardian.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 10, 2015 12:22 PM  

The business etiquette expressed or the corporate dynamic at Tor is so questionable at this point whether its an OT update or formal post, Gallo's truth in humor of what is not funny requires a repeat of what was stated by Ms. Gallo with every update.

Anonymous Cee June 10, 2015 12:23 PM  

Consider the difference in the effects of a boy cot between me simply saying I will not pick up an black tranny hookers versus reminding people that the NYC outbreak on encephalitis that followed Hurricane Sandy was traced back to one bath house, which reminds people actions can still have consequences.
Nonsense.

The latest argument circling the tumblyweb is that consent to sex does not equal consent to pregnancy, ergo abortion is legitimate as a form of "birth control". Following this logic, you're allowed to withdraw consent at any time from any consequences that might arise from your actions.

If they occur anyway, it's because reality is a rapist.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 10, 2015 12:23 PM  

My concern about a boycott is that, it might make us look toothless.

I've already read all of the Frank Herbert I'm going to. It's been a while since I cared about what Orson Scott Card's latest book is. There is no way in hell I would buy a HALO tie-in. And my low opinion of John Scalzi is what lead me here in the first place. The rest of TOR's catalog is mostly Steampunk Dancing Space Unicorns in Love crap that wasn't selling anyway.

I've effectively been boycotting them for years, I doubt if I'm the only Campbellian doing that.

I just don't think an official boycott will effect TOR's bottom line all that much.

Blogger darkdoc June 10, 2015 12:24 PM  

The social justice warriors are going to win. Recently I was perusing the book store at Valparaiso University, and found the book "Why Social Justice Matters."--Brian Barry This in a Lutheran university. This cause, which I had never even heard of has become the fervent belief of fanatics. It has already replaced the gospel of Christ, in liberal religious churches. And this has been happening for a long time. I've just had my head in the sand.

I've watched my beloved stated of Indiana fall to mobs of these radicals.


People smarter than I have written about the decline of civilizations and empires. Key to their discussions is the observation that these declines are characterized by apathy, amorality, and inhumanity (and of course the "masters of the universe" scheme any way they can to maintain control and power).

This will not be limited to only the US, but is a world wide event.

So you learn to live within it, fight back to protect yourself and family, and join the remnant of the church still here when the worst is done. Cowboy up - The Gates of Hell shall not prevail...

Anonymous Scintan June 10, 2015 12:26 PM  

I disagree with the premise that an apology was given to those attacked. At best, an apology was only given to a subset of those attacked. It's posible that subset does not even exist. This is a matter of logic before it can be a matter of honor. Honor demands that she answer for the entire scope of her offense.

The dictates of honor are not universal. John's personal sense of honor apparently required that he accept the proffered 'apology', and that only women may refuse such apologies. Most people's sense of honor would, likely, not mirror Mr. Wright's individualized version on those two subjects.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream June 10, 2015 12:35 PM  

**I'm sure most if not all of Tor's authors have contracts they're legally bound to, so we cannot expect to see many immediate disassociations by their stable.**

Ms. Gallo's comments probably breach those contracts, and the subsequent tepid disavowal probably isn't enough to cure the breach. Firing her probably would be. Consult a lawyer and all, yadda yadda.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 10, 2015 12:35 PM  

"While perusing the Twitter, it became clear that militant SJWs prefer suicide to course correction"

Have you seen funny video, where the captain of an aircraftcarrier, on a collision course, communicates an order to the lighthouse keeper to "change course" ?

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 12:38 PM  

@shimshon

July 7 it is. Agreed.

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 12:39 PM  

@JaimeInTexas

You right-wing shitlord.

You stated that my Spanish had gender problems.

You goddam oppressor. My Spanish doesn't have a gender problem, it's transitioning.

Anonymous Anonymous June 10, 2015 12:43 PM  

Tipping point- Jenner, we must be close. Next up: "transablism"

-Arborist (VFM #0232)

Anonymous SumDood June 10, 2015 12:47 PM  

Didn't the Occupy Hypocrites picket the houses of bankers. (The irony of blue-on-blue attacks was lost on them).

Maybe a vocal protest presence at Tor/Macmillan press events will turn up the heat? Signs which quote Torling offensive comments could gain some TV coverage. Ideally the protestors would be minorities themselves, making it harder to dismiss their arguments.

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 12:48 PM  

RF

"I don't know the implications for dressing rooms, but the policy is that any man that wants to become a woman must have the surgery."

You apparently haven't heard about the Planet Fitness case in Michigan, in which a man walked into the women's dressing room and the woman who complained about it had her membership revoked, for "shaming"

In Canada a man walked into a women's dressing room, and exposed himself, and then sneered ""Come here often?"

The homosexual Greeks kept their women secluded and in order inside the house by different methods. The same thing is going to happen to women in the US and Canada--all done in the sophistry of "her choice" of course.--Her choice to avoid men in the dressing rooms, by staying home.

I don't know that much about laws. Can a private club, under religious laws, "discriminate against trans? I would think there was some money to be had, creating a religious sports club, that discriminates against trans. But LBGTQ groups are talking about the "tipping point." In which no discrimination will be permitted against them.--None.

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 12:54 PM  

re: 113 Anonymous "transablism"

We've had it. Don't remember where I saw it, though, EverNote has failed me. We started with transfats, then it was transgender. Transracial is a thing. Transnaming is a thing - John C Wright features an example in One Bright Star to Guide Them, the whole Sarah/Sally thing. But that is just the latest, it's been done before.

I'm thinking "transjob" might be the next thing. You know, when a person "identifies" with one job, but then needs to "identify" with a different one a short time later. Probably due to a bad economy.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 10, 2015 1:01 PM  

aaaaaah ha ha ha ha ha ha

aren"t verbs that are transitive?

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes June 10, 2015 1:03 PM  

It's instructive to read the comments at Tor. On one side you have the SJWs operating on a purely rhetorical, vapidly immature, illogical level. On the other side you have wholly reasonable arguments about the responsibilities that businesses have toward their customers. In the middle you have the preening, above-the-fray centrists with their upturned chins proclaiming both sides to be morally equivalent. I don’t know whether I have more contempt for the SJWs or the centrists. Probably the later.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 1:07 PM  

"You apparently haven't heard about the Planet Fitness case in Michigan, in which a man walked into the women's dressing room and the woman who complained about it had her membership revoked, for "shaming""

I had heard about that and it actually gives me hope. My guess is that a lot of people quit that club. Didn't give a reason, just left.

And women vote. Once they start feeling threatened by men pretending to be women with penises coming into their spaces something will be done.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 10, 2015 1:08 PM  

Transabled. Check. The loonies are a few crippled steps ahead of you

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/29197-trasabled-people-are-a-thing-i-am-not-making-this-up

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 10, 2015 1:22 PM  

1. Identify as a disabled black woman and apply for some STEM scholarships and grants.
2. Sue.

Blogger Shimshon June 10, 2015 1:33 PM  

Jourdan, you're on!

Blogger VD June 10, 2015 1:37 PM  

My concern about a boycott is that, it might make us look toothless.

So what? If we are toothless, then we should look that way. But we're not.

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 1:37 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer, Women may quit. They just may not have any other place to workout. OSHA has just made a work-place suggestion that places of business should allow men cross-dressers to enter women "safe-spaces." My understanding is that these "suggestions" laws in the making.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 1:38 PM  

Brotip: Identify as ablefluid so that you can act normal again after you have the money.

Anonymous Gecko June 10, 2015 1:42 PM  

I disagree with the premise that it was an apology.

I do too, but I am willing to concede John's point about accepting the form while allowing The Almighty to judge its sincerity. My point is that even with that concession, John has erred in considering it, in its current form, to be an apology to him.

The dictates of honor are not universal. John's personal sense of honor apparently required that he accept the proffered 'apology', and that only women may refuse such apologies.

I've read enough of his writing to know that John's code of honor includes upholding truth, justice, and logic. I believe that if John takes a closer look at who the apology was actually offered to, he will concede that it was not offered to him and that he is therefore not honor-bound to accept it - that he cannot reasonably accept something not offered to him. The form does not even allow him the opportunity to refuse it "on the grounds of insincerity."

I believe he would also admit that justice demand, at the least, an apology (or repentance) that acknowledges ALL who were attacked, even if, for some reason, he includes himself in said subset.

I certainly admire John's intent despite the mistake.

Anonymous taqiyyologist June 10, 2015 1:50 PM  

118. Elocutioner

Good God Almighty. SMH.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 1:50 PM  

"Ron Winkleheimer, Women may quit. They just may not have any other place to workout. OSHA has just made a work-place suggestion that places of business should allow men cross-dressers to enter women "safe-spaces." My understanding is that these "suggestions" laws in the making."

That's what I'm saying. Once OSHA starts issuing regulations that cause women to have to share bathrooms with men pretending to be women with penises a lot of women are going to stop supporting this trans nonsense and start looking for politicians that will put an end to allowing men to roam about in womens locker rooms.

Most women know that if you presently or have ever had a penis then you are not a woman. Even radical feminists know that.

Anonymous Scintan June 10, 2015 1:54 PM  

I've read enough of his writing to know that John's code of honor includes upholding truth, justice, and logic.

You realize, though, that John's 'acceptance' is every bit as pro forma as Gallo's apology, right?

Blogger guest June 10, 2015 1:54 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer: I hope you are right. It just seems that right now, the winds are blowing in the opposite direction. Not that I've ever been that politically astute or engaged. The LBGT victories that have come in the last decade, took me totally by surprise. And yet my brother, in the military stated that he knew it was coming in the 80s

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 10, 2015 1:56 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer,,

Voting, as many women are starting to find out, doesn't work.

It is rule by agency now. Audit "findings" have more force than law.

Anonymous Gecko June 10, 2015 2:05 PM  

@Scintan I certainly appreciated the underlying call for justice. That's classic Wright right there.

Blogger luagha June 10, 2015 2:09 PM  

Other people have said this but I'll emphasize it and add my experiences.

I've worked in several companies in Silicon Valley. In every one, Irene Gallo's post would be a firing event.

In the last three companies I've worked for, every individual office has a yearly meeting and a yearly review of the company handbook which details policies covering exactly this behavior and why it is forbidden. We have to sign off on a little document saying we've read the handbook and understand it. Our HR department puts it in our file which one presumes they will have to hand if we screw up, they have to fire us, and we sue.

At my current company I am suggested not to mention who I work for or in what capacity in any way in any such public posting. Not because it's any big secret, but because it leads to exactly this problem.

The original post in which Gallo's evil comment is a reply to, is a Tor book-pimping post. It's a post to her Facebook in which she is advertising for Tor. That's fine, it's a standard use of Facebook to advertise whatever you are up to in your life. But when you do that, you're working for Tor, and that's what she was doing then.

Blogger Rabbi B June 10, 2015 2:21 PM  

"I've worked in several companies in Silicon Valley. In every one, Irene Gallo's post would be a firing event."

Absolutely. As the financial controller of the engineering firm that employs me, I would be shown the door. People who hire professionals expect them to behave professionally and represent their company well.

I was legitimately discriminated against years ago and ended up resigning. In a subsequent interview with another company I was asked why I had left my former company. In my response, I made it a point not to bad-mouth the former organization, even though I no longer represented them in a professional capacity. I just felt it was bad form to do so, even though I was legitimately mistreated.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 10, 2015 2:25 PM  

Do not give in to despair. Pull up your big boy panties and join the fight, or quietly retreat to the sandbox where you won't be in our way.

Dude, we used to say that nearly thirty years ago about the album cover to Look What the Cat Dragged In too. But it wasn't sincere then, and it isn't now, either. People say these kinds of things because they feel that they're expected to. It's like a little thoughtless catechism. But they don't actually believe it.

Anonymous Jake June 10, 2015 2:26 PM  

The first boycott must be John Scalzi.

Cut off the snake's head.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 2:29 PM  

I was legitimately discriminated against years ago

They thought the M didn't quite go with the J?

Anonymous Scintan June 10, 2015 2:29 PM  

The first boycott must be John Scalzi.

Cut off the snake's head.


From what I've read and seen, Scalzi is more horse's ass than snake's head.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) June 10, 2015 2:30 PM  

@VD

So what? If we are toothless, then we should look that way. But we're not.

if it turns out we are toothless, then we need to fix that....

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 10, 2015 2:31 PM  

"I've worked in several companies in Silicon Valley. In every one, Irene Gallo's post would be a firing event."

I've seen a situation where someone was wearing their ID badge and got into an argument with someone in a check-out line after work, and got in trouble when the person they argued with called the company to complain.

Blogger jaericho (#107) June 10, 2015 2:35 PM  

Transableism. bwahaha This whole thing reminds me of this narration in the Hitchhiker's Guide:

The major problem which the medical profession in the most advanced sectors of the galaxy had to tackle - after cures had been found for all the major diseases, and instant repair systems had been invented for all physical injuries and disablements except some of the more advanced forms of death - was that of employment. Planets full of bronzed, healthy, clean-limbed individuals merrily prancing through their lives meant that the only doctors still in business were the psychiatrists - simply because no one had discovered a cure for the universe as a whole, or rather, the only one that did exist had been abolished by the medical doctors. Then it was noticed, that like most forms of medical treatment, total cures had a lot of unpleasant side effects. Boredom, listlessness, lack of - well anything very much, and with these conditions came the realisation that nothing turned, say, a slightly talented musician, into a towering genius faster than the problem of encroaching deafness. And nothing turned a perfectly normal, healthy individual into a great political or military leader better than irreversible brain damage. Suddenly everything changed. Previously best-selling books such as ’How I Survived an Hour With a Sprained Finger’ were swept away in a flood of titles such as ’How I Scaled the North Face of the Megaperna With a Perfectly Healthy Finger But Everything Else Sprained, Broken, or Bitten Off by a Pack of Mad Yaks’. And so doctors were back in business - recreating all the diseases and injuries they had abolished - in popular, easy-to-use forms. Thus, given the right and instantly available types of disability, even something as simple as turning on the Three-D T.V. could become a major challenge. And when all the programs on all the channels actually were made by actors with cleft-palettes, speaking lines by dyslexic writers, filmed by blind cameramen, instead of merely seeming like that, it somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 10, 2015 2:38 PM  

They would turn Nazi in a second.

They will turn Nazi, any second. History shows us that. That is why I fight them. I have children: I cannot abandon their futures to these retarded rabbits.

Blogger Rabbi B June 10, 2015 2:39 PM  

"They thought the M didn't quite go with the J?"

Close. More like the J didn't quite go with the M.

Anonymous GreyS June 10, 2015 2:44 PM  

I'm not waiting. I'm boycotting Tor until further notice. I simply do not buy the half-hearted "She expressed her own views, not Tor's". Tor is a big player who affects the SF market and SF mindset in a major way. It is clear that Tor is actively against me as a book-buyer and reader and against authors who don't follow their agenda. Tor has several employees (Scalzi, Gallo, Hayden etc) who hold this buyer/reader in contempt and still associates with one former employee (Hayden) who continually shows egregious and unprofessional behavior. I don't know Tom Doherty but I do know that he runs a company which employs people with disgusting professional behavior.

To boycott Tor is an easy call. The question is whether or not to boycott Macmillan.

Anonymous GreyS June 10, 2015 2:48 PM  

The first boycott must be John Scalzi.

Cut off the snake's head.


"Head"? I see him more as the snide conniver whispering into the ruler's ear.

Blogger Dexter June 10, 2015 2:49 PM  

The first boycott must be John Scalzi.

Cut off the snake's head.


Who here buys his lame, stupid shit now anyway?

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 2:52 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 10, 2015 2:56 PM  

No, I doubt critics find Vox or his people as weak or meek. Those who mistake meekness or mild/objective types as weak are rabbit fools.

I suggest Sabrina's changing the conversation has something to do with Tor. Something is wrong in the Force.

Anonymous ticticboom June 10, 2015 3:04 PM  

I am very disappointed with everyone who fails to appreciate the subtlety and finesse in John C Wright's wielding of the shiv. Gallo never noticed it slip in.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 10, 2015 3:05 PM  

145 Quizzer

Could you expand on your idea a little more? There are three aspects I'm confused about.

1) How is it that nothing the Dread Ilk has done has made a difference?
2) How is it that the efforts of the Dread Ilk are not sincere?
3) How in any way does the world today compare with an inconsequential album cover?


1) Completely unrelated to anything I posted, and I don't believe that anyway.
2) What are you talking about? I'm talking about people who said that the Bruce Jenner magazine cover was sexy. I don't believe that's sincere. They're trying to be polite, not honest.
3) What are you talking about? I'm talking about the conversations that guest had with colleagues about the Bruce Jenner cover.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 3:09 PM  

Joshua: I also thought you said "Dude, we used to say that nearly thirty years ago about the album cover to Look What the Cat Dragged In too." to the exhortation against defeatism, thereby presenting defeatism as the only honest attitude. Only now that you wrote that did I realize that you referred to an earlier discussion.

Anonymous Jake June 10, 2015 3:12 PM  

""Head"? I see him more as the snide conniver whispering into the ruler's ear."

Don't underestimate Scalzi's importance to Tor and (especially) PNH. Cut off Scalzi and their whole house of cards falls-- especially now that they've wedded their future to him.

The reason these morons think they can do what they do is because they have been able to produce a successful author who spits in the eye of people like us. Bring Scalzi down and the leadership at Tor will see the harm this editorial regime has done to the Tor brand and science fiction in general.

In other words, you don't have to take out every upstart author in the Tor catalog. Take down Scalzi, and the rest will fall into place.

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 3:15 PM  

In comment 133 you quoted me from comment 51:

This is me from comment 51, which you quote in 133:
Do not give in to despair. Pull up your big boy panties and join the fight, or quietly retreat to the sandbox where you won't be in our way.

This is you from comment 133:
"Dude, we used to say that nearly thirty years ago about the album cover to Look What the Cat Dragged In too. But it wasn't sincere then, and it isn't now, either. People say these kinds of things because they feel that they're expected to. It's like a little thoughtless catechism. But they don't actually believe it."

The second part was addressed to me as you quoted me. If you mistakenly quoted me then I'll delete my 145 post with no objections. Otherwise, clarification please.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 3:21 PM  

Yeah, it's clear NOW that Joshua meant that back in the day people were saying that the transvestites on that album cover were hot too, and it wasn't honest then either. His quote was just confusing.

Anonymous Jake June 10, 2015 3:23 PM  

"Who here buys his lame, stupid shit now anyway?"

This may be true, but how many people here have written a negative review of his books on Amazon? How many people have I had to argue with because they still claim that Scalzi must be a "good" writer because he has so many fans? It's one thing not to buy one of his books; it's another to get others not to buy his books.

If you are in a war, then go after the most forward general. That's Scalzi. If nothing else, it might stop him from buying a bigger lawn...

Blogger Dexter June 10, 2015 3:23 PM  

I am very disappointed with everyone who fails to appreciate the subtlety and finesse in John C Wright's wielding of the shiv.

Eh, I don't like dainty Elf assassins, I like a mighty-thewed barbarian who goes at 'em with a broadaxe. (Paging Colonel Kratman...)

Blogger VD June 10, 2015 3:34 PM  


This may be true, but how many people here have written a negative review of his books on Amazon?


Very few, because most of us don't read his books.

Blogger beerme #0183 June 10, 2015 3:36 PM  

My concern about a boycott is that, it might make us look toothless.
In this market where traditional publishing is fighting over a diminishing market we have an excellent position compared to most boycotts. By not firing Gallo, Tor/MacMillan has made her the SP/RP version of Sam Biddle. His bullying statements were the givf that kept on giving for GamerGate. Her statements are toxic to anyone on the right side of the political divide and Tor/MacMillan can't afford to alienate even a portion of the market at this stage.

They cannot afford for Instapundit to stop plugging Scalzi books. They cannot afford for Milo to send out his sarcastic barbs to the Breitbart readers. They definitely cannot afford for this to cross over to GamerGate and affect their tie-in novels.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 10, 2015 3:36 PM  

The second part was addressed to me as you quoted me. If you mistakenly quoted me then I'll delete my 145 post with no objections. Otherwise, clarification please.

I was responding to the same post you were responding to, actually. Sorry for the confusion!

Anonymous ticticboom June 10, 2015 3:41 PM  

@Dexter:

Both have their uses.

Anonymous Jake June 10, 2015 3:41 PM  

"Very few, because most of us don't read his books."

You just described 86% of Amazon reviewers.

No, seriously. Many people here have read a Scalzi book. I assume a person who describes it as "lame, stupid shit" here, can do it on Amazon as well.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 10, 2015 3:41 PM  

Just to help put things in perspective, in Europe Scalzi is pretty much an unknown. Mainstream book shops rarely have anything by him and specialist SF bookshops may have one copy of some of his books. I see Amazon.fr has some of his books in translation but I've never seen one in a book store. (Believe me, since following VP, I look).

P a p e r T i g e r

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 3:43 PM  

No worries, 145 deleted

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW June 10, 2015 3:48 PM  

That's what I'm saying. Once OSHA starts issuing regulations that cause women to have to share bathrooms with men pretending to be women with penises a lot of women are going to stop supporting this trans nonsense and start looking for politicians that will put an end to allowing men to roam about in womens locker rooms.

Yup. OHSA rules on Transgender Employees

It's primarily women who are going to pay for this.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 10, 2015 3:51 PM  

It's primarily women who are going to pay for this.

Where, see, normally I'd be inclined to simply shrug and tell them they will reap what they sow with a glint of schadenfreude, as it happens, I have a wife, a mother and a daughter, and will have daughters-in-law and likely grand-daughters before too long. So it pisses me off too.

Blogger Quizzer W June 10, 2015 3:53 PM  

I see a market opportunity for the "bathroom privacy tent"... I'll bet Japan has already invented it though.

Blogger Allen Armory June 10, 2015 3:58 PM  

RE: 163 Then we must encourage our own wives, daughters and other females friends and relatives to join the fight and start writing the books that they would enjoy reading and the SJW's would hate.

Blogger Dexter June 10, 2015 4:09 PM  

Re: 162

Make sure your wife, daughter(s), and sisters carry, and practice often at the range with their Hello Kitty Glocks.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 10, 2015 4:11 PM  

Post op trannys have the highest suicide rate out there because they finally realize they got lied to and there is no getting their penis back. Cutting off their penis and making a new hole will not make them happy if they never have been happy before.

gasp in homosexual proclamations at how "HOT" Bruce Jenner looks. I've watched women state in awe, that Bruce Jenner is more beautiful than themselves.

Tell them that you agree that Jenner has always been more feminine than the Williams sisters and see how they react.

David the goodguest: "abandon our gardens"NEVER ABANDON YOUR GARDENS

If you set up fruit/nut tree guilds, some permaculture & some offset land that has plants that recede themselves you can certainly abandon your gardens. Guerilla gardening is designed to be uncared for.

Ron Winkleheimer, Women may quit. They just may not have any other place to workout.

If I dress up really creepy and do this in women's restrooms how much do you think I could make a year in lawsuits to make up for my inability to work agency afterwards?

The LBGT victories that have come in the last decade, took me totally by surprise.

Not a single victory has come from the ballot box(not even in CA), and most are from judges. Most gays forget that there is occupied land between NYC & San Fran.

Eh, I don't like dainty Elf assassins, I like a mighty-thewed barbarian who goes at 'em with a broadaxe.

308 or 7.62 for the zombie nigapocalypse, poison for the blue helmets that come to take stored food.

Blogger IM2L844 June 10, 2015 4:13 PM  

Have you seen funny video, where the captain of an aircraftcarrier, on a collision course, communicates an order to the lighthouse keeper to "change course" ?

No, but somebody forwarded me an email of the transcript years ago. A fitting analog.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 10, 2015 4:23 PM  

"Yup. OHSA rules on Transgender Employees"

It's primarily women who are going to pay for this.


It is, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for women to object to it. Someone just claimed (I can't confirm it) that daytime soaps are now littered with scenes of man-on-man romance, and I haven't seen the overwhelmingly female audience complaining about it. Invading their bathrooms at work is more direct, but still a difference of degree more than kind.

Women as a group are remarkably tolerant of perversity, especially when the alternative means setting a standard and telling someone somewhere, "You're not allowed to do that." If this stuff is to be rolled back, I suspect it will be their husbands and fathers who do it, possibly over the objections of their wives and daughters.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 10, 2015 4:57 PM  

@Cail


I assume you've seen the relevant South Park episode.




Blogger Cail Corishev June 10, 2015 5:38 PM  

Cataline, actually no, I haven't watched past about season 14. Seemed like they started trying too hard somewhere along there.

I was actually thinking, among other things, of a family get-together last Thanksgiving. They had a parade on the TV, and at one point a bunch of men dressed up as women (trannies or drag queens, I have no idea) did a dance number.

Now, the women in my family are pretty conservative by all but Amish standards. They're mostly stay-at-home moms who garden and cook for their families. They married fairly young and go to church. They homeschool, or at least admire those who do. Yet they were obviously titillated by this display. The men in the room flinched and looked away, but the women were giggling and admiring their outfits. When I said something about how this was some fine morning family entertainment, they frowned at me like I was being a prude and spoiling their innocent fun.

Yes, these women would object to sharing a restroom with men -- but not vociferously, and when told to deal with it, they probably would, because they wouldn't want to hurt some confused guy's feelings. And these are conservative women. So I really don't expect to see a bunch of modern, working women refusing to let men into their restrooms. They may fuss a bit, but that's all.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 10, 2015 5:45 PM  

My problem with John's acceptance of that "apology" is that it wasn't an apology at all; even in it's form it was a continuation of the insult.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 10, 2015 5:46 PM  

Tp paraphrase, "I'll pretend I'm sorry that you racist, homophobic, neonazis are so morally weak that my deliberate attempt to offend you actually offended you. Pussies!"

Blogger Jourdan June 10, 2015 5:51 PM  

@ Tom Kratman

Thank you, yes, exactly. Even on the squishy wet terms Wright parades around as acceptable, the "apology" doesn't even come close to any real definition of the term.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 10, 2015 6:02 PM  

@Tom Kratman

JCW seemed more concerned with form than substance.

"I do not need any further words from her, nor does she owe me anything more. I look forward to working with whomever Mr Doherty hires to replace her."

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 7:30 PM  

"My problem with John's acceptance of that "apology" is that it wasn't an apology at all; even in it's form it was a continuation of the insult."

and reading between the lines... John's acceptance was just as superficial.. and his comments were just as personally insulting.

Blogger James Dixon June 10, 2015 7:37 PM  

> The question is whether or not to boycott Macmillan.

And the answer, if nothing happens at Tor, is yes.

> My problem with John's acceptance of that "apology" is that it wasn't an apology at all; even in it's form it was a continuation of the insult.

John's acceptance of it wasn't an acceptance either, Tom.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 10, 2015 8:19 PM  

I took it as more accepting than that.

Blogger Nate June 10, 2015 8:33 PM  

did ya read it at his place Tom? I took it the way you took at first... but once I read it over there I concluded he was treating her like a contemptuous child.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 10, 2015 8:46 PM  

I read it on Flint's page, Nate.

Anonymous tiredofitall June 10, 2015 8:52 PM  

"Say, how hard would it be to make a palemoon browser plug in that blocks tor books on amazon?" - Nikis-Knight

Way harder than to simply type "-Tor" at the end when you use the search function on the site.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 10, 2015 9:21 PM  

IM2L844

OMG! Some people actually thought this is something that actually happened!!!

Anyhoo, apparently there are a couple of different versions. Here is one of the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sYsdUgEgJrY

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 10, 2015 10:16 PM  

176. "My problem with John's acceptance of that "apology" is that it wasn't an apology at all; even in it's form it was a continuation of the insult."

and reading between the lines... John's acceptance was just as superficial.. and his comments were just as personally insulting. -Nate


It sometimes takes a couple reads while rubbing a couple brain cells together to really get Wright. And Sally is a diminutive of Sarah.

Anonymous The other robot June 10, 2015 10:43 PM  

BigGaySteve:

Post op trannys have the highest suicide rate out there because they finally realize they got lied to and there is no getting their penis back. Cutting off their penis and making a new hole will not make them happy if they never have been happy before.

I dunno if this interests you: Pathogens and Homosexuality and Gender Dysphoria

Seems Simon LeVay was onto something.

Blogger James Dixon June 10, 2015 11:54 PM  

> I took it as more accepting than that.

I can see how you can get that from what he said if you don't read it carefully, but I think if you do read it carefully you'll agree that it's not.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 11, 2015 12:22 AM  

Or, one can put oneself in the enemy's mind and see how s/h/it/they react to it.

Blogger John Wright June 11, 2015 2:48 AM  

"whom they libel (slander?) in the hit piece."

For those of you interested in the hairsplitting distinction, slander is spoken in speeches, libel is lettered in literature. The mnemonic is 'S is S and L is L'.

Or just listen to J Jonah Jameson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XscaGDxuQqE

(However, non-lawyers non-nitpickers are allowed to use the word slander to refer to defamation in any form.)

Blogger John Wright June 11, 2015 3:06 AM  

"I don’t know whether I have more contempt for the SJWs or the centrists. Probably the later."

Centrists are worse because they know better and stab both sides equally in the back. We call them 'Laodiceans'. See the revelation of Jesus Christ to Saint John for details.

Blogger VFM 188* June 11, 2015 10:07 AM  

A point for anyone who can identify the purported author of the following aphorism:

"Never be neutral, for the victor will consider you part of the spoils, and the vanquished will have no room for you in his cave."

Blogger Tom Kratman June 12, 2015 10:02 PM  

Pretty sure that was from The Prince.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 13, 2015 3:59 AM  

Col. Kratman gets it in one! Thank you sir!

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 13, 2015 4:24 AM  

From last year's hugs and kisses SJW festival:

“I reached back into my ancestral knowledge and realized: you can weaponize nice” — meaning, you can have the ability to “tell someone to go to hell and they’ll enjoy the trip.” -Erin McKean

http://i.imgur.com/xaodoAq.png

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 13, 2015 4:33 AM  

Marysue and other sites block people whom they disagree with.

They defend domestic abusers, scam artists, lying histrionics and puppy pedophiles. I call it Dogfucker Digest for a reason.

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 13, 2015 4:35 AM  

Marysue and other sites block people whom they disagree with.

They defend domestic abusers, scam artists, lying histrionics and puppy pedophiles. I call it Dogfucker Digest for a reason.

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