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Tuesday, June 09, 2015

The rules of the game

VFM 0007 illustrates why the Supreme Dark Lord does not leave the philosophizing to his minions:
I'm not entirely at ease with this. It doesn't seem just to demand that she be fired for her personal opinions. Would someone explain how it is, please?
The rules of the game of Cultural War, as defined by the SJWs, is that when a member of the other side is foolish enough to overstep the current PR bounds, their employment is a legitimate target. See: Brandon Eich. Or see: every attempt to DISQUALIFY and expel and blackball and disassociate me for the last ten years. Remember that a single tweeted link to a measured response to a vile personal attack was all it took justify the SFWA witch hunt against me, a witch hunt in which Tor Books Senior Editor and Manager of Science Fiction Patrick Nielsen Hayden not only participated, but co-orchestrated. Note the dates below.

John Scalzi @scalzi
I just renewed my @sfwa membership!
2:18 PM – 14 Aug 2013

P Nielsen Hayden ‏@pnh Aug 14
@scalzi So did I! What a coincidence! @sfwa

If a CEO can lose his job for donating to a successful political campaign in the past, an Associate Publisher can, and should, lose her job for attacking her publishing house's own authors and customers. That is not only just, it is entirely fair play. It doesn't matter if Gallo apologizes or not. Eich apologized even though he did nothing wrong and he was still pressured into resigning.

Gallo issued an unapology under pressure from her employer and she will probably end up issuing another one before she eventually resigns. Unless, of course. Mr. Doherty or someone higher up the chain finally does what should have been done yesterday and fires her. If someone at Castalia House were ever to attack our authors or customers in that way, they wouldn't even be given the chance to apologize. They would be fired on the spot. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly out the door. The fact that neither Mr. Doherty nor Mr. Patrick Nielsen Hayden saw fit to fire Ms Gallo for cause speaks volumes about where their priorities are.

Those priorities, of course, are their prerogative. Unlike Tor Books, everyone at Castalia House, from our volunteers to our Publisher, respects and values our authors. We value every single one of them, even those with whom we inevitably disagree on one issue or another. We value our customers as well, and as those who have had the occasional problem with getting their books delivered know, we go out of our way to take care of them even if the problem is on their end.

The idea of actually attacking them is the polar opposite of our attitude towards our customers. Without our customers, we not only don't exist, we have no reason to exist. Tor Books appears to have forgotten that.

Stephen Ashby is nevertheless dubious:
You expect a resignation? I can see why you want one, but I don't see what would lead you to expect it. Personally I expect Tor will simply pretend the matter is dealt with, and if you don't accept that then they will claim you're the one being unreasonable.
Absolutely. I expect one because I don't believe Tom Doherty or Patrick Nielsen Hayden are entirely stupid. If they don't accept her resignation soon, then I expect Macmillan, who I don't believe to be stupid in any way, shape, or form, to not only fire Gallo but also remove those executives who have been derelict in their management duties.

The further away one is from the cultural battle in SF/F, the more totally inexcusable Gallo's behavior appears. Especially from the purely corporate perspective. Not only was Ms Gallo's attitude and statement in direct conflict with the Macmillan Code of Conduct, it is is direct conflict with one of the most basic rules of business: cherish your customers and treat them with care and respect.

Many of us are waiting to see how Tor is going to respond. If Mr. Doherty thinks his initial statement is sufficient to conclude the matter, he is woefully mistaken. If no further action is forthcoming I expect that more than a few people, myself included, will be publicly endorsing the boycott for which some writers and SF readers have already called.
Mr. Doherty, with the greatest possible respect to you as an individual:  until Tor publicly dissociates itself from the outrageous positions taken by the individuals I have named (all of them), publicly rebukes those concerned, and takes steps to make sure that no such statements are ever again made by senior members of the company, I shall be unable to believe any assurances that their views are not those of Tor.  Actions speak louder than words - and so does the absence of actions.  All Tor has offered is words.  It's time for actions.  What is Tor going to, not say, but DO about the situation? - because unless and until it does the right thing, others are going to do what they believe to be necessary and appropriate under the circumstances.

There is very little time left to address these issues before this situation gets out of control.  For the sake of all of us in the SF/F community, I hope Tor uses it wisely.
You can leave your own comments on Mr. Doherty's statement at Tor.com. And speaking of management duties... Malwyn? It appears #7 wants further instruction in the art of proper minionhood.

Labels: ,

136 Comments:

Anonymous Gorgo June 09, 2015 7:25 AM  

Seems like a good way to demonstrate your impotance.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 09, 2015 7:31 AM  

No it doesn't, what are they going to do double down on SJW rhetoric and turn themselves into Mattress Girl publishing house? Every piece of failed literature they turn out can be lumped onto her head. Gallo wanted to "social signal" well she is going to get it, all she deserves.

Blogger Rigel Kent June 09, 2015 7:32 AM  

I'm not entirely at ease with this. It doesn't seem just to demand that she be fired for her personal opinions. Would someone explain how it is, please?

One has to remember that in war, the terms of engagement are set by the aggressor.

Blogger stats June 09, 2015 7:37 AM  

impotance?

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 7:41 AM  

Seems like a good way to demonstrate your impotance.

I know for a fact that Tor is deeply concerned about the possibility of a boycott. What do you think inspired our various posts about leaving Tor alone back in April? That was a professional courtesy. They asked us to leave them out of it, we did, and their Associate Publisher turned around and attacked us.

We don't owe them any further professonal courtesy until she is gone. And they know it.

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P June 09, 2015 7:45 AM  

"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else - Sam Walton, Walmart"

Tor seriously needs to bear this in mind. Personally, I'm already boycotting Tor and have been for a few years now. So far they have given me ample reason to continue not buying their products.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 09, 2015 7:48 AM  

As I said in a previous thread, I am merely being polite by not trading with Tor. After all, I can't imagine that they would want to do business with a Nazi.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 8:01 AM  

"cherish your customers and treat them with care and respect"

This is an even more important rule than "the customer is always right," which is patently untrue.

Blogger Markku June 09, 2015 8:07 AM  

There was a time when people weren't so aspie, that you could say something trite like "customer is always right" and have everyone understand it.

But these days you have to RRRREALLY spell it out and say "If the customer wants something unreasonable or impossible, don't sell him anything. Don't act like you know better what the customer wants, than the customer himself. You may suggest an alternative, but if the customer rejects it, don't start arguing about it."

Anonymous Strange Aeons June 09, 2015 8:08 AM  

VFM #0017 would like to respectfully disagree with VFM #0007: in war, one does not lob water balloons at those who just fired 120mm mortar shells at us, this failing of a cultural sh* test only results in histrionics and disciplinary action over dongle jokes and pinup girl shirts. I firmly agree with the Dread Ilk policy of hitting back 2x as hard. Let the rabbits face the consequences of their opinions just as they demand of us, and may this Scarlet A of unprofessional SJW fascism forever taint her curriculum vitae.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 8:08 AM  

VFM #0004 has sent two emails, each lovingly customized, demanding her resignation in sweetly worded but utterly vile malice. As a Jew, I have no regret at all about dropping the anti-semitism card for the cause. Bwahahaha. I wonder how many more I will have to send before she walks the plank?

Blogger Jason June 09, 2015 8:11 AM  

Add i said over at superversivesf. I don't think a boycott as such would work they generally don't. I would still buy John c wrights books from tor.

But that being said, my time and money is finite. Why would i give it to someone who hates me? I don't see much value in risking a spend on a new author from tor.

I enjoyed red shirts by scalzi and agent to the stars but i won't buy his new stuff. More good books than time to read. Might as well give money to people that don't hate me for existing.

Anonymous black knight June 09, 2015 8:21 AM  

John C. Wright already betrayed you and accepted her "apology"....

With friends like Wright....

Anonymous JamesV June 09, 2015 8:22 AM  

I've had a limited boycott or Tor for a while as well. If I already know I like an author I wouldn't avoid buying from Tor. But knowing the SJWishness of their operation and how it guides who they publish I'm not going to risk wasting money on book that I will probably dislike. I stopped readying sci-fi and fantasy years ago because it became harder and harder to find stuff I enjoyed. Knowing that a lot of what Tor publishes will reflect what I was seeing back then makes trying a new author from them unappealing.

But now I think If I want something from Tor I'll go to the used market first.

Blogger Rantor June 09, 2015 8:24 AM  

I noticed today that the owners are in Stuttgart... Should have visited them last Friday. I am sure they may be more sensitive to their employees referring to their authors and customers as Nazis than the Patrick Haydens of the world are.

Blogger totenhenchen June 09, 2015 8:26 AM  

Nothing makes rabbits squee more than consequences.

SQUEE, RABBITS! SQUEEEEEEEE!

Blogger Jourdan June 09, 2015 8:29 AM  

I often expect an incomplete understanding of the nature of the enemy when reading what people on my side of the fence thing. But not here. It is distressing to me to read so many appeals to left-wing virtue (but I fought *apartheid*, but I'm married to an *African-American*, etc) as somehow an effective tactic.

Look, man. I watched these people countenance murder of young European-American men and the rape of European-American women in the name of their ideology.

And, no, that is not hyperbole for effect. I saw it up close and personal.

The hatred this Gallo demonstrates is real, and that Tor has been captured by SJWs of this sort is bloody obvious, right down to the hilarious un-apology to the comment moderation at their website.

One the things I find refreshing about Vox is his refual to stop naming the enemy and drawing the logical conclusions from that act.

Let's stay the course on that front. Please.

Anonymous JohnnyLightwave June 09, 2015 8:29 AM  

I had a friend e-mail this to me. The conversation was about video games, but it can apply to books as well:

"If a hardcore leftist writes an amazing game, will I buy it? Of course I will. I love amazing video games, and for me, art, skill, and craftmanship truly do transcend politics, etc.

But, I'm going to buy a lot of mediocre and bad games this year as well. And you can bet your ass that as I consider a less than perfect game, I'm going to be googling to see if the creators are people who despise me. I would buy Civilization 15 if I found out Sid Meier he was a hardcore socialist, but I won't be buying any Super Meat Boys from anyone who makes his socialistic shame public."

Blogger Jason June 09, 2015 8:29 AM  

@black Knight,

John has betrayed nobody. He can accept her insincere apology if he wants. That doesn't effect me.

He has had good experiences with the tor people he has worked with and he will give then the benefit of the doubt. That is his right.

Anonymous Breeder June 09, 2015 8:30 AM  

Vox, is Malwyn still issuing numbers?

Blogger Kull June 09, 2015 8:31 AM  

Fascinating. The sjws commenting on the Tor thread are really going for it. People are threatening to boycott Tor if they don't publicly denounce the puppies. And, apparently the personal is no longer political. Gallo's comments are her own business and don't reflect on Tor. So then why was Eich forced to resign? Habitual lateness? These people are so full of shit. Gamergate got brought in real quick, btw. Their playbook is tired.

Anonymous black knight June 09, 2015 8:33 AM  

If a Tor boycott is launched, Wright and his followers will stab you in the back. Just ask Jason.

Blogger Salt June 09, 2015 8:34 AM  

TOR's image is at stake. Making it visible all over social media is PR they won't enjoy. Gallo et al are SJWs and that's the paint they use. We can use it too with the truth. Time to paint pretty pictures.

Anonymous Difster VFM #109 June 09, 2015 8:36 AM  

Attacking one's customers is beyond stupid. Not only are they driving customers away, it has the future consequence of making new authors reconsider whether or not they want to sign with a publisher who allows their staff to openly condemn that author's readership.

Firing a person who initiates such an attack would be fully warranted even without the SJW rules in play.

Likewise, it's very bad business to be attacking one's vendors (in this case authors) given that they supply you with the materials that are to be sold.

Anonymous Paul #0348 June 09, 2015 8:37 AM  

OT, but add this to the pile of women ruin everything:

It was the first escape in the 150-year history of the maximum-security prison in Dannemora, N.Y., the state’s largest.

An employee at the prison where two convicted killers escaped over the weekend is being questioned as a possible accomplice.The woman knows the two escapees "very well,"

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 8:39 AM  

Regarding the Eich/Gallo comparison, besides Eich's indication of extremely moderate right leanings, what he has over Gallo is that he is a technological giant (regardless of Javascript's shortcomings, designing the language that literally runs the web, and doing it in a couple of weeks is a huge accomplishment) while Gallo is just a rabbit with a fancy-sounding title next to her name who will never do anything of note .

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 8:41 AM  

John C. Wright already betrayed you and accepted her "apology"....

John hasn't betrayed me. His acceptance or non-acceptance of her apology is his call. John is one of the ELoE's diplomats. Leave the diplomacy to him and Torg.

And leave the fighting to the Dread Ilk.

Anonymous Strange Aeons June 09, 2015 8:42 AM  

black knight -
When attempting to drive a wedge between allies, a 90/10 ratio of finesse to force might work better than a 10/90 ratio.

SA

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 8:42 AM  

Vox, is Malwyn still issuing numbers?

Of course. Email to request.

Blogger Alexander Thompson June 09, 2015 8:42 AM  

Usually in this situation the right winger is told to be the bigger person. "We're better than them and don't demand scalps."

And then they scalp you and you lose.

Not only should this woman be fired but maybe see to it she never works again.

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 09, 2015 8:42 AM  

Watch the Tor article; everyone is attacking John Wright. The puppet woman is going to try to make this a time where Tor must decide who their customers are; she wants to destroy Mr. Doherty's business for her ideals.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #338 June 09, 2015 8:43 AM  

Is it too late to apply for the position of Minion Disciplinarian?

Blogger Kull June 09, 2015 8:44 AM  

I don't give a shit what people are doing. I don't need to sign onto some official boycott. I know that prominent employees of Tor think that I am a nazi and misogynist. Ok. Message received. Do you think I am going to give them any of my money? Hell no.

Anonymous black knight June 09, 2015 8:44 AM  

No way a boycott will stick. Proof is on this thread. No dicipline. What's next?

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 8:45 AM  

Usually in this situation the right winger is told to be the bigger person. "We're better than them and don't demand scalps."

We're better than them. And we take scalps. It's my heritage, after all.

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 8:48 AM  

No way a boycott will stick. Proof is on this thread. No dicipline. What's next?

No discipline. That's funny. Congratulations, this is the first time I've ever actually seen Malwyn laugh. No, the second time. There was also that time she was whipping a captured SJW so hard that a spike actually came out through his eyeball.

Blogger Nate June 09, 2015 8:55 AM  

"No way a boycott will stick. Proof is on this thread. No dicipline. What's next?"

no discipline?

really?

and you conclude this from one weak comment? Out of curiousity have you have you happened to have seen the hugo nominations?

tell us all about the lack of discipline that not only smashed the SJW nominations... but also dominated Sad Puppies as well.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 8:55 AM  

"There was also that time she was whipping a captured SJW so hard that a spike actually came out through his eyeball."

She was just showing off.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 09, 2015 8:56 AM  

We're better than them. And we take scalps. It's my heritage, after all.

Aye laddie. And MY people took the whole head. And then nailed it up on the wall next to their doorpost.

What can I do to help?

Anonymous Mike M. (minion #315) June 09, 2015 9:07 AM  

A sound foreign policy has the carrot of diplomacy and the stick of military action.

Having said that, if I were Macmillan management, I'd be furious. Tor hasn't just insulted their customers, they've insulted their own authors. And done so in a way that is not only a personal insult, but also quite probably a financial loss.

Which is a Very Bad Thing. Both to the immediate bottom line, and even more when Hugo-nominated authors are filing suit to recover their intellectual property from a publisher who is publicly attacking them.

Having said that, remember that this is Tuesday morning. This blew up over the weekend. And you don't make decisions to dismiss high-level corporate officials overnight, they have to be legally vetted first. I think we're still in the opening moves of this game.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 09, 2015 9:08 AM  

no discipline?

really?


I wonder if he's thinking along the lines of assuming that most boycotts fail (which they do - look at the boycott of Disney for its "Gay Day, e.g.). Of course, as with success, prior failure is no guarantee of present failure.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 09, 2015 9:09 AM  

I think we're still in the opening moves of this game.

And the pawns are usually the first to fall.

Blogger Dexter June 09, 2015 9:10 AM  

Wright does what he thinks he's gotta do.

But so do I.

If he is harmed by a boycott, c'est la guerre. The fact of the matter is that he is trading with the enemy.

If a London company that specializes in fine French wines is harmed by the British blockade of France, so be it. The duty of every patriotic Englishman is to forego French beverages, however tasty they may be, for the duration.

In any event, what's going to happen is this:
1. Tor fails to promote Wright's books.
2. Therefore they don't sell.
3. Tor drops Wright. "Oh, so sorry, nothing personal, just a business decision."

My money will not go to Tor, period.

Blogger Markku June 09, 2015 9:11 AM  

John's acceptance of the apology doesn't really mean much. Towards him, the insult was about "bad to reprehensible" authorship. That's an opinion. Very unprofessional opinion from one's publisher to publicly express, but an opinion.

But towards Rabid Puppies, the accusation was about being Neo-Nazis. That's libel, not opinion.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 09, 2015 9:11 AM  

Rhetoric is in itself disqualification but per usual the targets of her hate spend time quibbling the definition of what ever rhetoric she aimed at them

Blogger Nate June 09, 2015 9:13 AM  

"Aye laddie. And MY people took the whole head. And then nailed it up on the wall next to their doorpost."

you're painting your butt blue as we speak aren't you...

Blogger Nate June 09, 2015 9:14 AM  

"But towards Rabid Puppies, the accusation was about being Neo-Nazis. That's libel, not opinion."

That's a strange place to draw the line. It appears to me, and apparently to Mr Wright, that we were all called neo-nazis. Himself included.

Blogger Markku June 09, 2015 9:16 AM  

Possibly. I consider "Rabid Puppies" to mean Vox and the voters, but an argument could be made for it to mean the authors on the list too. Not sure what she meant by it.

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 9:17 AM  

What can I do to help?

For now, let Mr. Doherty know your opinion of his handling of the situation.

Blogger Rabbi B June 09, 2015 9:23 AM  

"If someone at Castalia House were ever to attack our authors or customers in that way, they wouldn't even be given the chance to apologize."

Yeah, that's the part I am not getting. The publishers at Tor may say she doesn't reflect their views or that all the so-and-so' at Tor do not share her views (how do they really know?) and yet they can't see or refuse to see that by default she REPRESENTS TOR, so her views are going to reflect on Tor whether they share her views or not. At the very least she is fired for unprofessionalism and misrepresenting the company or representing a reputable company badly. Her position at Tor also makes her that much more accountable. More is expected from the top. Discretion is still the better part of valor. She has displayed none. She can even sincerely apologize, be forgiven, and still lose her job. Better yet, she can sincerely apologize, be forgiven, recognize the trouble she has caused and do the honorable thing by graciously stepping down. I don't think anyone expects this, but truth is some times stranger than fiction.

No one here is going to cause Miss Gallo to lose her job. That decision is up to either Miss Gallo or her superiors at Tor. But she is accountable for her actions and her decisions, and we, the vilified customers who keep them in business, are more than happy to do our part, no matter how small.

I am no one of consequence, just a skinny Jew trying to get to to heaven, but she called me a neo-nazi, for G-d's sake.

Vile Faceless Minion #0150 (Slayer of Six-Toed Uncircumcised Philistines)

Blogger Rabbi B June 09, 2015 9:25 AM  

"you're painting your butt blue as we speak aren't you..."

AYe! It's MY island!

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 09, 2015 9:33 AM  

@Kull

Exactly. I am not boycotting anyone, I am being courteous to Tor. I'm sure they would not wish to trade with a Nazi. Therefore I shall not do business with them. It would seem that this is a mutually beneficial relationship.

Anonymous Ridip June 09, 2015 9:51 AM  

No discipline. That's funny. Congratulations, this is the first time I've ever actually seen Malwyn laugh. No, the second time. There was also that time she was whipping a captured SJW so hard that a spike actually came out through his eyeball.

Hey! Do not make coffee come out my nose before 10:00 AM, even if you do share my own sadistic sense of humor.

And I fully expect to see that graphic implemented in your upcoming game.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 09, 2015 9:58 AM  

There was a time when people weren't so aspie

Man, I'd sure like to think so. Did the Internet create it, or just reveal it?

Comeuppance. Just deserts. Lie in the bed you made. Hold one's feet to the fire. Hoist on your own petard. Karmic boomerang. Faustian bargain (and how it always turns out). Dance with the one you came with. Reap what you sow. It's a such a central concept in human society that we have several ways to refer to the same basic idea, and it's all through classic literature.

I guess I can see someone not being comfortable administering the earned punishment himself. Not everyone wants to be the headsman. I don't understand the guy who tries to stop anyone else from doing it, so we can stand around agonizing about how well we're sticking to the rules of combat while they're shooting at us.

Blogger Jourdan June 09, 2015 10:08 AM  

My comment to Doherty's ridiculous statement

Private comments and opinions are just that, private.

What Gallo said: 1) was in the context of her work *as a publisher* at Tor; 2) directed at Tor authors specifically; and 3) was obviously on its face wildly untrue and indictivive of an extreme partisan.

That’s not private. That is directly connected to Tor, its authors and its audience.

What is private is her long-standing record of posting items indicating her extreme hatred of men. Of course, when one becomes aware of this, one must decide whether or not you wish to do business with a company that supports people who espouse hatred on the basis of gender, and it calls into question the atmosphere of this workplace, but if, as many commentators here believe, the issue is her private speech, than one would expect this to have been dragged into it. As it has not, that is highly instructive.

Look, here is the botttom line: You people on the left are victorious, you represent the winning faction in a long-running cultural battle, you have the government, the media (including publishers), academia and pop culture clearly on your side. Yet when we on the other side ask that a company NOT INSULT ITS OWN AUTHORS AND CALL THEM NEO-NAZIS, you find that flatly unacceptable.

I ask you to think about that.

As for Doherty’s statement and the hilarious modern American “un-apology” from this Gallo, it’s so far from being adequate that it’s an embarrassment. I will not buy Tor and I will encourage every fan I know to not buy Tor. And I know I’m not alone.

You can only piss on people for so long before they start taking offense.

Blogger Alexander June 09, 2015 10:13 AM  

"It's a such a central concept in human society that we have several ways to refer to the same basic idea, and it's all through classic literature."

And that, ladies and gentleman, explains exactly why are opponents can't figure it out.

Blogger Harsh June 09, 2015 10:16 AM  

No way a boycott will stick. Proof is on this thread. No dicipline. What's next?

Are you a moron?

Blogger luagha June 09, 2015 10:18 AM  

As for boycott discipline, remember that boycotts take a while.

Bookscan numbers aren't very good, but Kindle numbers are exact. Any time the publishing house wants to see who actually sells what, they can do it. But first, we know their attention must be drawn to it. As has been said, if your book at Tor doesn't sell into the six figures, you need your editor to be your personal friend to keep you around on the midlist.

Be funny if they see a big drop in sales... except when a Wright or Wolfe book comes out, then the numbers pop back up to normal for a few days.

Also keep in mind that on the midlist and lower, the publishing house does almost nothing to advertise. They leave that up to the author's blog now because it's cheaper (and it's not like they spent a lot before, usually it was just an advertisement in the ordering-magazine that bookstores get). I should tell the story of Wizard's First Rule and the editor who pimped it, I think it may have been Jim Frankel sometime.

So a threat to 'not advertise' Wright's books is a little pointless. Wright's books weren't getting bookends and displays at bookstores before and they won't now.

Blogger J Melcher June 09, 2015 10:19 AM  

Re #40 about lawsuit to recover intellectual property, I request more info. Or confirm a guess -- is that P&K Foglio and "Girl Genius" ?

Anonymous Max June 09, 2015 10:21 AM  

"Seems like a good way to demonstrate your impotance."

Impotence or importance?

Blogger The Deuce June 09, 2015 10:29 AM  

I'm not entirely at ease with this. It doesn't seem just to demand that she be fired for her personal opinions. Would someone explain how it is, please?

This isn't a matter of her personal opinion. It's not like we're going after her for having a particular political belief, or arguing for some position on some issue which we find disagreeable. This is a matter of an employee in a position of considerable power at Tor publicly libeling and attacking specific people, people who happen to be her employer's own readers and authors to boot. It's completely unprofessional, and between her comments and those of the Haydens and others, there can be no confidence that employees outside their little political clique are being given a fair shake.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 10:34 AM  

All Brian Williams did is play a little fast and loose with the truth and he's out (as seen on Drudge today). Gallo has done far worse. It's definitely telling how quickly Doherty has rushed to her defense.

Anonymous MendoScot June 09, 2015 10:36 AM  

15. Rantor June 09, 2015 8:24 AM
I noticed today that the owners are in Stuttgart...


Really? Are they part of the Klett Gruppe?

Vox - I just Bcc'd a mail to Amazon community to your account. It might be something trivial, but if it's happening to more people, it might be a new front opening up.

Blogger The King's Man (0007) June 09, 2015 10:36 AM  

The Supreme Dark Lord himself has turned his malevolent gaze upon me and uttered words that...put me at ease. It must be a trick. Yes, cause me to feel safe in order to make Malwyn's ministrations all the more horrific. Diabolical.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 09, 2015 10:47 AM  

"most boycotts fail (which they do - look at the boycott of Disney for its "Gay Day, e.g.)"

At no time in the last decade did I get that memo. My personal boycott remains in effect in perpetuity. I'm just one person, but few things Disney are knowingly shown in my house. I grew up with Star Wars but I'm going to skip the new SJW space opera. I'm in this for the long haul. My list started way back in 2001 (post-9/11 leftist slanderers) and it's getting rather long.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 09, 2015 10:58 AM  

@ 46 - you're painting your butt blue as we speak aren't you...

Did that last night

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 09, 2015 11:00 AM  

It's clear that the SJWs' plan is to be louder to give Tor a false sense of their greater numbers. Well, it's not so much a plan as an MO.

And yet, what percentage of SF/F customers are polite, beardy old white guys who dislike being called Nazis by raving lunatics?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 09, 2015 11:07 AM  

Just posted this at tor.com

"Just wanted to let the folks of Tor know that as a courtesy I will no longer be trading with them since I am sure they would not wish to do commerce with someone they feel is a Nazi.

This would seem to me to be a mutually beneficial arrangement. I spend my money with merchants that don’t think I am a Nazi (or at least don’t call me one) and Tor no longer has to suffer the indignity of taking money from a Nazi.

Good luck and God’s Peace"

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 09, 2015 11:07 AM  

A brief illustration of proper minionhood. The first 41 seconds....

Anonymous Leonidas June 09, 2015 11:07 AM  

One has to remember that in war, the terms of engagement are set by the aggressor.

If your opponent is unarmed, bring a stick. If he brings a stick, bring a knife. If he brings a knife, bring a gun. If he brings a gun, bring artillery.

Violence always escalates - until one side can't or won't escalate it any further. Invariably, that side is the one that loses. We are sportsmen, and we are bigger and better men. This tactic is low. Frankly, it's reprehensible.

But they went there. And it won't stop until we go there, too - bigger, stronger, and louder - and show them the error of their ways. Mercilessly.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 09, 2015 11:09 AM  

@ 46 - you're painting your butt blue as we speak aren't you...

Did that last night

Anonymous Keep Smiling June 09, 2015 11:20 AM  

"... as those who have had the occasional problem with getting their books delivered know, we go out of our way to take care of them

An unsolicited endorsement....

Recently I took advantage of a "buy vol 1 and get vol 2 free" offer from Castalia House on a Friday. Saturday I opened my email to see two links to the books.

I clicked vol 1 and it downloaded, I clicked vol 2 and got the message "you have reached your download limit"..

I sent an email asking for the link to be reset, I expected to hear a reply on Monday.

But instead (on a Saturday), I received an email apologizing and asking me about the format I needed. I replied and within a few minutes received an email with vol 2 attached. (on a Saturday!)

That is the definition of good customer service.

(I am a non-attorney non-solicited spokesman for the above comment).

Blogger Dexter June 09, 2015 11:23 AM  

what percentage of SF/F customers are polite, beardy old white guys who dislike being called Nazis by raving lunatics?

I plan to order one of those spiffy Finnish SS uniforms from Markku as soon as the design is finalized.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 09, 2015 11:29 AM  

There are many comments on the thread at tor.com indicating that they are shocked! shocked I say! that Tor would apologize to the puppies because the puppies are self-evidently evil.

The idea that Tor is a business and the responsible, professional thing for high level people at Tor is to simply not make any statements regarding controversial subjects on social media that could reflect badly on Tor is completely over their heads.

Hell, I have to take mandatory classes on appropriate use social media and have had to do so just about every year since I first got access to the great granddaddy of social media, Usenet. Apparently a publisher of cutting edge science fiction has not gotten that far in its policies and procedures yet.

Blogger Markku June 09, 2015 11:32 AM  

Boots, to get you started, Dexter

Anonymous RF June 09, 2015 11:35 AM  

I think it is pretty funny that Tom Doherty takes pains to be neutral and disavow the more bald faced lies like those about a neonazi connection and immediately 100+ Torlings chimes up and claims either a) "yeah the nazi part was a technically a lie, but close enough" or b) "Irene Gallo was 100% correct!". B) is even funnier since even Gallo herself admitted to not being correct.

Blogger Alexander June 09, 2015 11:38 AM  

So what we have is:

1. SJW's shocked that there is anything wrong with a corporation being an ideological gatekeeper.

2. Sneering at the Puppies for claiming that publishing companies are acting like ideological gatekeepers.

Say what they will, we never accused them of internal consistency.

Blogger Rabbi B June 09, 2015 11:43 AM  

"As a Jew, I have no regret at all about dropping the anti-semitism card for the cause." (11. Shimshon)

I wonder how interested the ADL might be?

"There are two extreme right-wing to NEO-NAZI GROUPS, called the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies respectively, that are calling for the end of social justice in science fiction and fantasy. They are unrepentantly RACIST, MISOGYNIST, and HOMOPHOBIC. A noisy few, but they've been able to gather some Gamergate folks around them and elect a slate of bad-to-reprehensible works on this year's Hugo ballot."

The Anti-Defamation League was founded "to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all." ADL fights anti-Semitism and ALL FORMS of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 12:02 PM  

Some idiot replied to my comment at Doherty's post where I said I would keep going up the line of his bosses until I see results with this stupid gem:

I think you'll find he *is* the boss.

It's like they've never heard subsidiaries.

Blogger Douglas Wardell June 09, 2015 12:03 PM  

@78 Rabbi B

I happen to be of Jewish descent if you want to add my name to a complaint.

Anonymous Scintan June 09, 2015 12:06 PM  

So, have the more conservative media outlets (i.e. Breitbart) been apprised of Ms. Gallo's comments, and the responses, yet? That seems like the next logical step.


Also, captcha needs to be fixed, or the picture aspect needs to be removed.

Blogger Shimshon June 09, 2015 12:14 PM  

Re the "anti-semitism card" I meant dropping bon mots like this in my minion-mails:

"As a Jew whose grandparents fled the Nazi menace in Germany and Poland, I find her remarks deeply offensive. Is this how Tor treats its customers and authors?"

I'm happy to add my name to any ADL complaint (and it would beneficial at the least to divert their attention from their usual right-leaning but not actually anti-semitic targets, so there is that), but I'm not going to initiate anything with them.

Blogger Rabbi B June 09, 2015 12:16 PM  

"I happen to be of Jewish descent if you want to add my name to a complaint."

With the Supreme Dark Lord's permission, I would be happy to compile a list of offended and interested parties and submit the "incident" to the ADL.

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 12:36 PM  

No, leave the ADL out of it. That's an escalation too far.

Blogger Quizzer W June 09, 2015 12:43 PM  

What started as a relatively minor PR faux pas has now gotten much, much worse for Tor. If the comments on Mr. Doherty's non-action action post are to be believed, the Tor customer base has now demanded that Tor pick sides in this fight.

Ms. Gallo's apology may have given them a way out, but that avenue is gone now, as it was the expected non-apology. Okay, perhaps not entirely expected as we are used to seeing the doubling-down apology. See, things are getting better!

I predict far more popcorn will be needed before this whole thing is settled.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 09, 2015 12:47 PM  

Vile Faceless Minion #0150 (Slayer of Six-Toed Uncircumcised Philistines)
Rabbi B, that is funny

Blogger automatthew June 09, 2015 12:51 PM  

Scintan: "Also, captcha needs to be fixed, or the picture aspect needs to be removed."

I don't think we can do much about that, as it seems to be a product of Blogger comments and the "Classic Template" Vox uses. You can always create a burner Google account for use here.

I will take a look at the problem, though; see if there's anything I can do to remedy or mitigate the issue with CSS.

Blogger Rabbi B June 09, 2015 12:53 PM  

"No, leave the ADL out of it. That's an escalation too far."

OK. Oh, but the irony, though . . .

Blogger automatthew June 09, 2015 12:57 PM  

I signed out and tried commenting as Name/URL, but I can't get Blogger to give me a captcha. Google knows me too well.

REQUEST: Anyone who knows how to save the HTML from your browser, if you get the captcha, please send me HTML. You can email my username at gmail.com

Blogger Nate June 09, 2015 1:21 PM  

why is it so damn hard to create a google account?

For fucks sake people you spend more time every week bitching about the captcha than it would take you to setup a gmail account... and it would solve the problem for you.

I doubt seriously you take your security more seriously than Vox does... and he has a gmail account.

Blogger automatthew June 09, 2015 1:28 PM  

Thanks to help from RR, I have a probable fix for the captcha display issue. Works in Chrome on OSX at any rate.

"For fucks sake people you spend more time every week bitching about the captcha than it would take you to setup a gmail account... and it would solve the problem for you."

But how much time have you spent bitching about the bitching? And now I'm bitching about the bitching about the bitching.

Blogger harry12 June 09, 2015 1:31 PM  

Speaking of bitching, are Glocks OT?

Blogger VD June 09, 2015 1:37 PM  

I doubt seriously you take your security more seriously than Vox does... and he has a gmail account.

I asked for one at nsa.gov to save them time, but they said gmail would do. The point is to grasp that there is no security and they are reading and listening to everything they want.

My recommendation is to run an extension that constantly surfs other sites in the background. They want information, give them information. To quote MercedesXXX: "have some porn!"

Blogger automatthew June 09, 2015 1:43 PM  

"My recommendation is to run an extension that constantly surfs other sites in the background"

Here's one for Chrome:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/paranoid-browsing/hnfdeaekggfbgjljcfdbfdhffoeopmbe?hl=en-US

Blogger hank.jim June 09, 2015 1:57 PM  

Never surrender over the cultural wars. Iggy Azalea was kicked out of a gay pride performance because of homophobic tweets in 2010. It's one thing to have homophobic thoughts, it's another when its clear that she doesn't right now. She transgressed so she must be punished. SJW will never accept an apology or for poor judgments in the past.

Anonymous Scintan June 09, 2015 2:58 PM  

Thanks to help from RR, I have a probable fix for the captcha display issue. Works in Chrome on OSX at any rate.

It worked on SRWare Iron and, if this post goes through, that means it worked on Pale Moon, so thanks for the effort.

Anonymous Porphyry June 09, 2015 2:58 PM  

"For fucks sake people you spend more time every week bitching about the captcha than it would take you to setup a gmail account... and it would solve the problem for you." true but at least you don't have to log in and log out every time you change your mind that your going to leave another comment from a public computer.

Blogger Alexander June 09, 2015 3:15 PM  

The problem with quitting captcha is that sometimes, you're sitting at your computer and you start to wonder.

Do I know, do I really know what a hamburger or pasta dish looks like? Could I guarantee a 100% identification rate?

Only way to know is to play.

Blogger Josh June 09, 2015 3:21 PM  

But how much time have you spent bitching about the bitching? And now I'm bitching about the bitching about the bitching.

It's just bitching all the way down.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 09, 2015 3:22 PM  

I do know that the ADL takes a dim view of public statements that trivialise the holocaust and the long history of antisemitism.

As the husband of a polish jew I certainly consider co-opting the term neo-nazi in a spat over a sci-fi award to be trivialising those events.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 09, 2015 3:26 PM  

Clarification: notwithstanding the long-twrm and serious consequences of the culture wars in which we are engaged...

Anonymous SumDood June 09, 2015 3:52 PM  

If one were pressured into buying something from Tor, for example a new John Wright or Gene Wolfe book, which product (Hardcover, trade paperback, paperback or eBook) would give Tor the least amount of profit?

Is there a vendor that costs more for Tor to do business with?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 09, 2015 3:54 PM  

Thanks to help from RR, I have a probable fix for the captcha display issue.

Nice. I took a look at it from the client end a while back and determined it wouldn't be trivial, because it pulls the comment form in as a separate iframe, after a browser extension will have already applied any custom CSS/javascript. It might have been doable, but I took the easy route of a gmail account -- now no captcha at all.

Blogger Daniel June 09, 2015 4:01 PM  

Cut it out Sumdood. You can't get a girl half-pregnant.

Blogger automatthew June 09, 2015 4:23 PM  

Cail, it turned out to be an easy CSS fix. I just set the height on the iframe containing the comment-editor. It's stupid and ugly, but it works until someone finds a better way.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 09, 2015 4:40 PM  

Automatthew, yeah, that's what I was going to try. I could do it manually by changing the CSS value after the iframe was loaded, but it would change back every time the frame was reloaded (if I remember right, it was hard-coded in the HTML, so a change to the page CSS didn't affect it), so I couldn't set it on page load. Glad you were able to address it on the back end.

Anonymous WaterBoy June 09, 2015 5:07 PM  

automatthew: "REQUEST: Anyone who knows how to save the HTML from your browser, if you get the captcha, please send me HTML."

The odd thing about it is that it's apparently using cookies or something to (sometimes) remember the commenter, as the Captcha doesn't always appear. Sometimes you just click in the box to declare your non-robotic status, and it approves you without further verification.

As for the food matrix not showing in its entirety, the one that appears on Res Ipsa's site always has a scroll bar on the right to scroll down and see all the pictures. Not sure if this is what your fix entailed or not, since it isn't currently asking me, but is another option to consider if it isn't.

Blogger Kull June 09, 2015 5:20 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Kull June 09, 2015 5:20 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous WaterBoy June 09, 2015 5:28 PM  

Nate: "For fucks sake people you spend more time every week bitching about the captcha than it would take you to setup a gmail account... and it would solve the problem for you."

And again, it's not about security...it's about privacy.

Consider an example:

SELECT * FROM CommentTable WHERE AccountNumber = "02962463170236658764";

There's every comment you ever made on every blog using that account (for varying values of DB structure, of course).

Yes, "they" can also find every comment from non-account users, too, but it involves a far more complicated process involving IP addresses and proxies and disparate ISPs.

Some of us just prefer to not make it so easy for "them" to do so.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly June 09, 2015 6:03 PM  

Vox you should add an update you post. It appears all the comments under Doherty's apology were deleted and you can no longer comment. However, if you look through Tor's list of posts the entry for his apology has 227 comments listed.

Re: Captcha debate. I didn't delete Firefox when I added Pale Moon and I can comment using the former with no problems.

Blogger Douglas Wardell June 09, 2015 6:09 PM  

@Rhys O'Reilly

I had issues seeing them earlier today, but I can still see the comments there right now. I think their comment software is just wonky. I can currently see up to 311.

Anonymous tiredofitall June 09, 2015 7:49 PM  

"John C. Wright already betrayed you and accepted her "apology"....
With friends like Wright...." - black knight

Kindly go fuck yourself. Mr Wright is a decent and honorable man who did the decent and honorable thing, he accepted a proffered apology. The fact that the one doing the apologizing is an insincere cunt waffle is neither here nor there. Accepting the apology is Mr Wright's choice.

"If a Tor boycott is launched, Wright and his followers will stab you in the back." - black knight

Again kindly go fuck yourself. As a loyal "follower" of Mr Wright's works I have no intentions of stabbing anyone in the back, that's a SJW tactic.

"No way a boycott will stick. Proof is on this thread. No dicipline. What's next?" - black knight

1.) Yes, it will.
2.) No, it's not.
3.) Nigga please, have you seen what determined VFM's are capable of?
4.) You'll continue to spew retardation in this thread and many others I'll guess.

Anonymous JRL June 09, 2015 8:26 PM  

My list started way back in 2001 (post-9/11 leftist slanderers) and it's getting rather long.

My list started with Levi's jeans and pretty much ended there. I can't keep track. Haven't bought a pair of Levi's since whenever they frowned upon the Boyscouts for not offering a fudge packing badge.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 09, 2015 8:51 PM  

Good Lord Mr. Beale, I am laughing out loud in sheer awe at you recent maneuver.

www.tor.com/2015/06/08/a-message-from-Tom-Doherty-to-our-readers-and-authors

You have, literally hundreds of progressives passionately claiming that what people post on social media, in public, albeit on their own time must not be used to, no not ever, to get them censured, fired, or the company they work for boycotted. My hat's off to you.


Of course, SJWs are not known for their truthiness, so perhaps this wasn't a Supreme Lord of Evil Master Plan of Evilness. Still hilarious either way. "Curse you meddling //-hellhounds-/// kids! If it weren't for you Tor's customers would never know what their employees think of them!"

Anonymous Giuseppe June 09, 2015 9:30 PM  

Automatthew,
"But how much time have you spent bitching about the bitching? And now I'm bitching about the bitching about the bitching."

Thank you for perfectly understanding the K nature of the ilk. We may adapt very rapidly to moving targets. But we still want our toast cut just so!

Blogger Nate June 09, 2015 9:48 PM  

" But we still want our toast cut just so!"

Look.. how I use my chainsaws are my business.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) June 09, 2015 9:55 PM  

SELECT * FROM CommentTable WHERE AccountNumber = "02962463170236658764";

There's every comment you ever made on every blog using that account (for varying values of DB structure, of course).

Yes, "they" can also find every comment from non-account users, too, but it involves a far more complicated process involving IP addresses and proxies and disparate ISPs.


I don't know the comment schema... but I'd expect that you could get the same thing with:

SELECT * FROM CommentTable WHERE Name = "WaterBoy"

People pick their names for identification ... and it will generally be consistent. Anonymous is right out by the rules of the blog, and how much work would it be to change your nickname enough to not have any pattern?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 09, 2015 10:05 PM  

My recommendation is to run an extension that constantly surfs other sites in the background. They want information, give them information. To quote MercedesXXX: "have some porn!"

I use steganography to encrypt all the contact info of my sleeper cell into vidcaps of MercedesXXX.

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 June 09, 2015 11:28 PM  

The King's Man (0007) June 09, 2015 10:36 AM
The Supreme Dark Lord himself has turned his malevolent gaze upon me and uttered words that...put me at ease. It must be a trick. Yes, cause me to feel safe in order to make Malwyn's ministrations all the more horrific. Diabolical.


Well on your way to a blanket party in the barracks when she gets done with you mister. Stop hiding intellectual doughnuts in your mental footlocker.

Blogger automatthew June 10, 2015 12:10 AM  

Nate: "Look.. how I use my chainsaws are my business."

The real argument is whether you lubricate with clarified butter or coconut oil.

Blogger automatthew June 10, 2015 12:11 AM  

And ... I have to say ... there are three dots in an ellipsis.

Blogger Russell (106) June 10, 2015 12:22 AM  

automatthew, you're complaining about Nate's punctuation?

That's like worrying about too many candles on a birthday cake in the middle of the great Chicago fire.

Anonymous WaterBoy June 10, 2015 12:33 AM  

SirHamster: "I don't know the comment schema... but I'd expect that you could get the same thing with:

SELECT * FROM CommentTable WHERE Name = "WaterBoy"
"


Yes, assuming that person consistently uses the same name...not just on a single blog, but across all of them. History here has demonstrated that to not always be the case (c.f., "Gregg", "Dread", etc). And not all of them disallow anonymous comments.

Bottom line is that neither of these options are available if you use a registered account.

Blogger automatthew June 10, 2015 12:52 AM  

"automatthew, you're complaining about Nate's punctuation?"

I could forgive four dots. Leaving off at two is either sloth or palsy.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 10, 2015 1:39 AM  

And ... I have to say ... there are three dots in an ellipsis.

Nate's ellipsis used to have three dots too, before the chainsaw accident.

Blogger The King's Man (0007) June 10, 2015 2:25 AM  

Well on your way to a blanket party in the barracks when she gets done with you mister. Stop hiding intellectual doughnuts in your mental footlocker.

They're merely straw intellectual doughnuts, I swear! Just ask Cail.

Blogger automatthew June 10, 2015 2:44 AM  

"Nate's ellipsis used to have three dots too, before the chainsaw accident."

Now I'm wondering if he lost the left dot, or the right one.

Blogger John Wright June 10, 2015 3:18 AM  

" I would still buy John c wrights books from tor."

Jason, I would rather you did not, at least, not until this matter is settled.

You cannot imagine how deeply I am grateful to you for being a reader who likes my work.

You are like the prince who marries the peasant girl. Well, I do not want my prince insulted, and then for him to give money to a company that harbors enemies who hate him with a reckless and insane hatred.

I would rather send you the manuscript free of charge than have your money go to your deadly enemies.

Do not be deceived: Irene Gallo's comment was not a joke, was not sane, was not something from this world. It was pure hatred, from hell, and it was directed at you.

Go to my website, scroll to the bottom, and write me privately. I cannot sell my novels to you, as Tor has that privilege, and I will honor my contract with them. But I can show my work to a friend of mine.

Blogger John Wright June 10, 2015 3:21 AM  

"If a London company that specializes in fine French wines is harmed by the British blockade of France, so be it. The duty of every patriotic Englishman is to forego French beverages, however tasty they may be, for the duration."

Hear, hear.

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 7:09 AM  

Had Gallo just said "nazi", it could be argued to be fair-game rhetoric, in the vein of "feminazi" that we like to say. Perhaps stylistically something that a publisher doesn't want its employers to do, but still within the parameters of the general conduct in this war.

But she said "neo-nazi". That is not metaphorical, that is a claim about the facts of the matter. Neo-nazis are a particular group.

Blogger TrevorG June 10, 2015 9:33 AM  

You really think there's much difference between what neo-nazi's have said about race, and what Ted Beale said about race when he was smearing NK Jemisin.

Tell me that this sentiment would be out of place a gathering of Neo-Nazi's:

"Jemisin has it wrong; it is not that I, and others, do not view her as human, (although genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens), it is that we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.

She is lying about the laws in Texas and Florida too. The laws are not there to let whites ” just shoot people like me, without consequence, as long as they feel threatened by my presence”, those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them." - Ted Beale

If the suit fits...

Blogger Markku June 10, 2015 11:14 AM  

You really think there's much difference between what neo-nazi's have said about race, and what Ted Beale said about race when he was smearing NK Jemisin.

Yes.

Anonymous tiredofitall June 10, 2015 12:06 PM  

"You really think there's much difference between what neo-nazi's have said about race, and what Ted Beale said about race when he was smearing NK Jemisin." - TrevorG

Vox "smeared" her in much the same way Tawana Brawley was smeared with shit by the racist cops she blamed. Which is to say, she did it herself.

Jemisin called herself a savage. Vox just took her at her word.

Also using Vox's real name is a clear sign you're an SJW type.

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 13, 2015 3:23 AM  

out of place a gathering of Neo-Nazi's

Well, when you consider that one third of actual Neo Nazis are meth cookers and the other two thirds are undercover feds trying to justify their budget... uh, yeah, it would be.

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