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Friday, June 12, 2015

Tor Books and the terror bots

I have no idea how legit this is, but it was posted on Reddit today by someone claiming to be a Tor employee:
Tor employee here: We stand by her too. Legal reacted to terrorist tactics of the Puppies (who created bots and have sent thousands of threatening emails to various people in the company) and, without stopping to speak to anyone else in Tor who damn well better understood the Puppies and the broader situation, made that statement from Tom go up. What people read was a draft that hadn't been vetted by anyone and Tom was horrified when it went public. The internal handling of this situation has been deplorable and the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor.

Our reputation is heavily damaged and both sides of the aisle have lost faith in us as a company. As for fallout within the company? Other than a lot of upset employees, loss of faith in the corporate culture, and a shiny new Social Media Policy; very little. No one is going to get fired.
Fascinating. So, let's examine the claims to determine how credible this is:
  1. The Puppies are using "terroristic tactics". That's false.
  2. The Puppies have created bots and sent "thousands of threatening emails". That sounds like a variant of the old "#GamerGate is just 200 people" narrative that everyone in GG knows to be false. We're expecting 100 for GGinParis alone. In any event, it means that if you have sent an email to Tor Books or Macmillan, you had better send another one with proof that you are not a bot. And "thousands" of emails? I know people are pissed off, but I find that hard to believe. Dozens, definitely. Hundreds, maybe. But thousands? No. And I very much doubt the emails were threatening anyone either.
  3. Tom Doherty didn't write the statement from Tom Doherty. That's a fascinating claim. Doubtful. If he was angry about it, why did he leave it up?
  4. Tor's reputation is heavily damaged. All right, that's true enough.
  5. No one is going to get fired. If that's true, then I will publicly endorse the boycott of Tor that many have been urging. However, given the nature of the previous statements, we should probably get confirmation before taking any such action.
If Tor Books is foolish enough to follow the lead of its editors and double-down, I expect they will soon learn that is a tremendous mistake. If they thought their reputation was "heavily damaged" by Irene Gallo's comments about Tor's authors and customers, how much more will it be damaged by officially endorsing them through a refusal to hold her responsible for them? I suppose there is only one way to find out.

That being said, don't forget, one very important thing: SJW's always lie. This may not even be from a Tor employee. It could be nothing but fantasy. So take this supposed leak with a grain of salt and don't overreact to it.

UPDATE: The purported Tor employee expands upon her statement:
[Tom Doherty] is an 80 year old man who "doesn't get social media" and responded to a carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in some of Tom's oldest friends and most established authors calling him, personally enraged, by what "they saw on them there internets being said by one of his lady workers." Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice. THAT was his error, rather than inherently being racist, homophobic, or greedy (he is none of those things, I know him personally). 
Except she previously said that Tom Doherty didn't respond at all, that it was Legal that reacted. This description is incoherent and somewhat self-contradictory. If Doherty wrote the draft letter and he "doesn't get social media", how did it end up posted on Tor.com without being vetted by anyone? If Legal reacted, how were they not involved in the vetting? Does Doherty actually endorse Gallo's opinions of Tor's authors and customers despite having disavowed those opinions in the draft that he a) personally wrote or b) never saw?

This Tor employee makes Tor Books sound even less professional and more haplessly dysfunctional than I'd imagined. If I were the Macmillan CEO, I'd clean house. It sounds like Tor Books needs it even more than Tor UK did.

Labels:

185 Comments:

Blogger Rabbi B June 12, 2015 4:13 PM  

"Thousands of threatening emails."

Waaaaaay understated. I sent six-million. I mean, they called me "neo-Nazi " for cryin' out loud.

Blogger Guitar Man June 12, 2015 4:14 PM  

I'm a bot, you're a bot, we're all bots.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream June 12, 2015 4:14 PM  

* and the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this [b]manor[/b]*

Employee at a respected publishing firm doesn't know to spell. I could believe it.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 12, 2015 4:15 PM  

We need T-shirts. Preferably in brown.

(And that's when the SJWs shout, "See, see! That's what we were talking about!")

Blogger Rantor June 12, 2015 4:19 PM  

I am thinking a letter in German to their parent company, mailed from Berlin would be good. I think the Tor staff needs some remedial training in what it is to be a Nazi and why it is wrong to call people that when they are not.

Anonymous daddynichol #126 June 12, 2015 4:19 PM  

Reading that muddled comment from an alleged Tor employee demonstrates just how low the literary bar has been set at that firm.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 4:20 PM  

Tom Doherty didn't write the statement from Tom Doherty. That's an interesting claim.

Legal ... made that statement from Tom go up.

Right there! I call bullshit. No lawyer would do such to him in his position. Not without his say-so, coming from a meeting discussing how to handle the situation.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #368 June 12, 2015 4:25 PM  

I sent emails, but the only threats they contained were threats to stop buying TOR books until all of the senior staff who despised the readership and their authors were gone.
.
And now I'll be sending more emails, with this statement included.






Yeah, employee at major publisher can't spell. That's pretty bad. I mean, bots can spell.




As for the claim that Legal made up the claim from Doherty, I could see a lawyer doing that. I could see a lawyer getting FIRED for doing that, but lawyers do dumb shit just like the rest of us do.

Blogger JartStar June 12, 2015 4:27 PM  

If the place is completely taken over by SJWs this is possible. It also means that Macmillan Publishers would have to get involved to instigate a change. Time will tell...

Anonymous dh June 12, 2015 4:27 PM  

ehh, no history. newly created account. probably fake.

Blogger Groot June 12, 2015 4:30 PM  

What great fun! VD's genius is eliciting the tribal in even a tree like me.

Anonymous VFM #0247 June 12, 2015 4:30 PM  

If the statement from Mr. Doherty was not vetted before being posted, then why did they a) keep the statement up and b) allow comments to go on for several days? Sheesh.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 4:31 PM  

@ VFM #0247

Yeppers.

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 4:34 PM  

So... you're telling me that I need to load up on Neal Asher and JCW (Count to a Trillion series) right now... before we declare that boycott.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 12, 2015 4:36 PM  

Smells like typical SJW "we won the war and there are no enemy survivor. Ignore the carpet-bombing that is ongoing and the tanks bulldozing your home, they are only aftershocks of the dead enemy" talk

Blogger Jourdan June 12, 2015 4:38 PM  

The Puppies are using "terroristic tactics". That's false.

Agreed. The distortion of our language they put on display daily would shock Orwell.

The Puppies have created bots and sent "thousands of threatening emails". I very much doubt it, that sounds like the old #GamerGate is 200 people lie that everyone in GG knows to be false.

Also agreed, and another example of their Orwellian use of language. When they say "threatening" they don't mean it as a reasonable person would interpret it, they mean "emails that threatened the righteous and winning side with negative consequences of varying types.

Tom Doherty didn't write the statement from Tom Doherty. That's an interesting claim.

Strongly disagree. Principles don't write for principles in modern American business and political culture; they have writers/lawyers draft and then edit and "clear" for delivery. On the contrary, I would be very shocked if Doherty wrote one word himself.

Tor's reputation is heavily damaged. All right, that's true.
Agreed, though "brought in line with what we deserve pursuant to our actions" is more accurate; though no doubt the meaning here is "damaged due to caving in to neo-nazis"

No one is going to get fired.

100% accurate, the winning side doesn't sacrifice their own people, that's what loser right-wingers do. If Gallo were to be fired, she would have been fired by now.

If that's true, then I will publicly endorse a boycott of Tor. However, given the previous lies, we should probably get confirmation first.

Why would they confirm this affirmatively? Isn't her continue employment with the publisher title evidence enough?

Blogger Jourdan June 12, 2015 4:39 PM  

*principals (not principles).

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 4:41 PM  

I am thinking a letter in German to their parent company, mailed from Berlin would be good.

Vox create an English text (I can't be arsed to waste time on the Gallo to formulate). I'll word it in native German and send to their head office... from London.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 4:45 PM  

If Gallo were to be fired, she would have been fired by now.

By Tom Doherty, yes. By Macmillan, no. They have absolutely no idea what is going on at their subsidiary. If I were at Macmillan, the first thing I would want to know is: "why do all these people seem to have it in for our people at Tor Books?"

And I would look into it much more deeply than just glancing at a few stupid and unprofessional statements. After all, there has to be a reason why those employees felt comfortable making statements like that. And there has to be a reason why so many people are so hostile to the subsidiary.

That's not something that happens overnight. There are servers to search, tens of thousands of emails to peruse, and so forth.

Isn't her continue employment with the publisher title evidence enough?

After a few weeks, yes. After four days, no.

Anonymous Ashterah June 12, 2015 4:46 PM  

One bot, two bot, three bot, FLOOR!

SMDH they are just stupid, pedantic fools, aren't they?

Blogger darkdoc June 12, 2015 4:47 PM  

Tor employee here: We stand by her too.

Our reputation is heavily damaged and both sides of the aisle have lost faith in us as a company. No one is going to get fired.


I keep saying they feel so superior (ethically, morally, intellectually, religious, and racial) to the rest of us, and as our superiors, they owe us no respect. None of the Puppy reputations have ever been damaged - How could they be, they are neo-nazi puppies for crying out loud.

Now we are not people, but bots.

Well, bite my bot, SJW's.

Blogger Jack Ward June 12, 2015 4:48 PM  

If Tor does not fire anyone; A boycott. The bare minimum, I say. Best, perhaps, legal action for libel? A libel suit or 10 would not be overreaction. I suppose there is some chance the plaintiff might lose that libel suit but I would put good money on the plaintiff; especially on the appeal.

Anonymous Nathan June 12, 2015 4:48 PM  

If true, someone really needs remedial training on social media and possibly even NDAs as they weren't paying attention the first time around. Also, if true, it does illustrate that the problem is endemic through the company and not restricted to Gallo, Feder, and Hayden. If false, well, Vox is right; SJWs always lie.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 4:48 PM  

I'll word it in native German and send to their head office... from London.

Du hast kein Vertrauen auf mein Deutsch? Actually, what would be helpful is if you learned who at Holtzbrinck is responsible for Macmillan US. It's too soon to contact them, since Macmillan may well handle it. But it's not too soon to find out who needs to be contacted if they do not.

Blogger Russell (106) June 12, 2015 4:49 PM  

Ah, but are we neo-nazi bots?

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 4:49 PM  

Libel suits in the USA are futile. The UK is the only place they are really viable.

Blogger Student in Blue June 12, 2015 4:49 PM  

I'll word it in native German and send to their head office...

Oh that's easy. I'll cut out the middle man and do it right here.

"Dier Tordeutscheleader,

Zie Socialjustisevarrioren ist ein problem. Du must ztop it.

Sincerely,
Franz Lederhosen"

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 12, 2015 4:51 PM  

It was Gamergate! Sockpuppets! Bots! says the shrill minority of nutjobs. Project much?

I suspect a professional organization run by adults and not a bunch of catty women and SJWs will take a loud boycott of a small wobbly subsidiary seriously enough to take action.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) June 12, 2015 4:51 PM  

Rabbi, that was doubly funny, coming from you.

If a person is a bot trapped in a human body, and sends an e-mail, is Tor correct that 'bots' are mailing them?

Blogger jaericho (#107) June 12, 2015 4:51 PM  

That was funny Student In Blue.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 12, 2015 4:52 PM  

Libel suits in the USA are futile. The UK is the only place they are really viable.

Is there a personal story behind this or just observations from your throne?

Blogger JartStar June 12, 2015 4:53 PM  

The fact that she followed Vox makes me think she was told she was not being let go (by Tor) and so she felt like she could do what she likes.

Blogger Sean June 12, 2015 4:54 PM  

" without stopping to speak to anyone else in Tor who damn well better understood the Puppies and the broader situation"

Hmmmm....I can completely imagine her nuanced and in depth understanding of the Puppies probably looks something like this: "There are two extreme right-wing to neo-nazi groups, called the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies respectively, that are calling for the end of social justice in science fiction and fantasy. They are unrepentantly racist, misogynist, and homophobic. A noisy few, but they've been able to gather some Gamergate folks around them and elect a slate of bad-to-reprehensible works on this year's Hugo ballot."

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 4:57 PM  

Du hast kein Vertrauen auf mein Deutsch?

Nein, leider: "Denkst du wirklich, ich sei der deutschen Sprache nicht mächtig?"

It's those little things that, although everyone understands what you meant to say, make your sentence sound really... foreignerish. (The combo "auf mein" sounds really weird, although it is perfectly clear you just literally translated "in my".) We call it "deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache". Sometimes I believe our forefathers (or rather, foremothers) have done that deliberately.


Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 4:59 PM  

27. Student in Blue

ROFLMAO

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 12, 2015 4:59 PM  

Just checking for credibility-

"Tor employee here: We stand by her too. Legal reacted to terrorist tactics of the Puppies (who created bots and have sent thousands of threatening emails to various people in the company)..."

If it were true that Puppies had send lots of emails to various people in the company, who but an insider would know and confirm that? Either it's speculation, a false flag, or this is really a Tor employee.

Terrorists don't sent emails- they use bombs and stuff like that. That kind of drama-queen lie is diagnostic of SJW fever.

and, without stopping to speak to anyone else in Tor who damn well better understood the Puppies and the broader situation, made that statement from Tom go up. What people read was a draft that hadn't been vetted by anyone and Tom was horrified when it went public. The internal handling of this situation has been deplorable and the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how...."

This is all great news if the memo is for real.

"...a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor."

Probably not a writor or an editer.

"Our reputation is heavily damaged and both sides of the aisle have lost faith in us as a company. As for fallout within the company? Other than a lot of upset employees, loss of faith in the corporate culture, and a shiny new Social Media Policy; very little. No one is going to get fired."

More good news. The part about "loss of faith in the corporate culture" is especially heartening: it's about time someone over there woke up and smelled the excrement. Tor employee: tell us more.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 June 12, 2015 5:00 PM  

Terror Bots? If I knew there were going to be terror bots I might have graduated from Not-So-Merry to Vile and Faceless.

Now if everybody gets their own mini-drone, I might have to cave.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 5:00 PM  

VD, it believe it's John Sargent; CEO MacMillan.

175 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10010

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 12, 2015 5:00 PM  

Ah, but are we neo-nazi bots?

Sing it to the tune of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Nazi gamer-gater robots...

OpenID crazdmadman June 12, 2015 5:02 PM  

"made that statement from Tom go up. What people read was a draft that hadn't been vetted by anyone and Tom was horrified when it went public. "

Bullshit!

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 12, 2015 5:03 PM  

If they start going with the terrorist angle like I predicted they would, we'll have to drop the "-gater" part to preserve the trochaic quadrameter:

Nazi gamer terror robots,
Nazi gamer terror robots,
etc.

Anonymous Leonidas June 12, 2015 5:05 PM  

Tom Doherty didn't write the statement from Tom Doherty. That's an interesting claim.

Legal ... made that statement from Tom go up.

Right there! I call bullshit. No lawyer would do such to him in his position. Not without his say-so, coming from a meeting discussing how to handle the situation.


I would absolutely believe he didn't write the statement and that a lawyer wrote it... except that a) you're right, no lawyer would put it up without notifying him and getting his permission. And b) if a lawyer wrote it, it would've been a far better statement.

He should have had his lawyer write it. Not doing that was a huge mistake.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 12, 2015 5:06 PM  

Eh? My comments went away.

Anonymous Leonidas June 12, 2015 5:06 PM  

Also, no lawyer is taking the fall for him on this. If it comes to be necessary, I guarantee you the lawyers come out pretty fast with the, "we didn't write it" statement.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 5:08 PM  

It's those little things that, although everyone understands what you meant to say, make your sentence sound really... foreignerish.

I never claimed to be fluent, merely functional. My Italian is better than my German, which is in turn better than my French. Which is nevertheless better than the dimly remembered remnants of my Japanese, which was functional 25 years ago.

Although that it still good enough to crack up the Japanese people I meet. At a conference, a friend encouraged me to say something in Japanese to his colleague. So I said something, which caused the Japanese guy to immediately explode laughing.

Afterwards, my friend asked, "what on earth did you say that made him react like that?" I said, "I propositioned him using polite nightclub slang."

Anonymous Difster VFM #109 June 12, 2015 5:08 PM  

It's a poor attempt and trying to goad Vox in to making a mistake or go on the defensive.

Blogger luagha June 12, 2015 5:08 PM  

Again, if Tor were a real company and the above posted by an actual employee, it would be a firing offense.

When the boss is handling messaging, the minion does not anonymously undercut the boss, either to support or deny or anything. Again, right there in standard boilerplate in the employee handbooks that they all copy out of.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 5:10 PM  

VD, it believe it's John Sargent; CEO MacMillan.

Come on, Salt. Do try to keep up. Macmillan is owned by Holzbrinck. That means there is someone at Holzbrinck to whom Sargent reports. Hence the need for a proper Cherman to navigate the org chart and find out who the right people are.

Blogger Double E June 12, 2015 5:10 PM  

"...how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor. "

I don't know why, but that error cracked me up. Maybe it's some kind of weird Freudian slip.

Reminded me of step brothers. "this is a house of learn-ed doctors!"

Anonymous Scintan June 12, 2015 5:10 PM  

"made that statement from Tom go up. What people read was a draft that hadn't been vetted by anyone and Tom was horrified when it went public. "

Bullshit!


It would say a whole lot about TOR if it were true that an unvetted statement was sent out, horrified the publisher, and still remained up on the official site for days.

That would be something that I'd expect the parent company would be very interested in.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 5:13 PM  

Sorry, VD. Misunderstood what you seek. Should be easy enough to find.

Blogger Rabbi B June 12, 2015 5:14 PM  

"Other than a lot of upset employees, loss of faith in the corporate culture, and a shiny new Social Media Policy; very little. No one is going to get fired."

I heard that rattlesnakes don't commit suicide in certain parts of the country. What about in New York?

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 12, 2015 5:14 PM  

And now for your daily What The Fuck from TOR.

This is the most entertainment I've had from TOR books in years.

Blogger Rabbi B June 12, 2015 5:16 PM  

"This is the most entertainment I've had from TOR books in years."

And its FREE!

OpenID crazdmadman June 12, 2015 5:19 PM  

BTW Vox have you joined "Writersofcolor" yet:

Mary Robinette Kowal
@MaryRobinette
Hey editors? Trying to find writers of color? Check out @WritersofColor and writersofcolor.org

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 5:22 PM  

Hence the need for a proper Cherman to navigate the org chart and find out who the right people are.

Not sure why you'd need to be German to do that. I would start with the legal board of Macmillan, which is surely published on the Internet somewhere. The chairman / non-exec directors are bound to be a good bet, assuming Macmillan is a fully owned subsidiary of Holtzbrinck.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 5:26 PM  

MacMillan is privately owned Corp. by Verlagsgruppe Georg Von Holtzbrinck GmbH. The current parent structure is -

Stefan von Holtzbrinck 8 Relationships Chairman of Executive Board, Chief Executive Officer and Partner --
Jens Schwanewedel 54 Relationships Chief Financial Officer and Member of Executive Board --
John Sargent No Relationships Member of Executive Board and Chief Executive Officer of Macmillan Publishers --
Annette Thomas 8 Relationships Member of Executive Board and Chief Executive Officer of Macmillan Science & Education 49
Michael Brockhaus No Relationships Head of Group Strategy & M&A and Member of Executive Board --
Sandra Dittert No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Christian Döttinger No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Claus-Peter Gosselke No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Rolf Landkammer No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Julian Oei No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Anka Reich No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Markus Schunk 7 Relationships Senior Vice President --
Ulrich Siebenmorgen No Relationships Senior Vice President --
Volker Smid No Relationships Head of Digital & Technologies and Member of Executive Board --
Martin Strempel No Relationships Senior Vice President


Who oversees him? The Board.

Anonymous Scintan June 12, 2015 5:31 PM  

Not sure why you'd need to be German to do that.

I believe that, given the current state of the laws of the various potential countries, a German, from Germany, would be more 'significant' concerning the issue of being called a neo-nazi than would an American from, say, Texas.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 12, 2015 5:32 PM  

29. ajw308 (#98) If a person is a bot trapped in a human body, and sends an e-mail, is Tor correct that 'bots' are mailing them?

Maybe Phil can field that one. Or maybe there's a bug in your brain implaaa... implaa... imp...

Update-
==========
SadbutHopeful23 0 points 7 hours ago
Tor employee here...

DiDgr8 -3 points 2 days ago
I think the takeaway from this interchange has to be: Tom Doherty is (probably) a racist and/or homophobe who WANTS the puppies to do his "dirty work" (causing profitable controversy) while he keeps his hands "clean" and and therefore rakes in as many bucks as he can from both camps. If so, I think he has miscalculated his market and the tactic might backfire. And maybe he's not a racist OR homophobe, just a greedy, spineless capitalist.

[–]SadbutHopeful23 2 points 7 hours ago
He is neither: rather, he is an 80 year old man who "doesn't get social media" and responded to a carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in some of Tom's oldest friends and most established authors calling him, personally enraged, by what "they saw on them there internets being said by one of his lady workers." Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice. THAT was his error, rather than inherently being racist, homophobic, or greedy (he is none of those things, I know him personally).
==========

Anonymous buzzcut #207 June 12, 2015 5:35 PM  

I'm a little terror bot, short and stout,

This is my handle, this is my other handle.

Oh shit, I'm a sugar bowl!

Blogger Student in Blue June 12, 2015 5:39 PM  

@jaericho and Franz Lionheart

I did my very best. I am sure my German heritage added the needed authenticity and fluency.

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 5:41 PM  

given the current state of the laws of the various potential countries, a German, from Germany, would be more 'significant' concerning the issue of being called a neo-nazi than would an American from, say, Texas.

For writing and owning the complaint, yes. That was the background to my original idea, as a matter of fact. For disentangling the Holtzbrinck org chart, no. That's a investigative secretary's job.

Anonymous fish June 12, 2015 5:43 PM  

Oh shit, I'm a sugar bowl!

Is that a spoon or are you just glad to see me?

Blogger jaericho (#107) June 12, 2015 5:45 PM  

59. Student in Blue

Coming from an American of mostly German heritage and also someone who has seen a lot of Hogan's Heroes and 'Allo 'Allo, I can say with confidence that your authenticity and fluency is spot on!

Blogger The Aardvark June 12, 2015 5:46 PM  

They spelled "aisle" correctly. At least there's that.

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 5:47 PM  

This is from Holtzbrinck.com:

Executive Board

Stefan von Holtzbrinck
Chief Executive Officer
Michael Brockhaus
Head of Group Strategy and M&A
John Sargent
Chief Executive Officer Macmillan Publishers

Jens Schwanewedel
Chief Financial Officer
Volker Smid
Head of Digital & Technologies
Annette Thomas

Anonymous Daniel #0189 June 12, 2015 5:48 PM  

I don't think Tor quite understands what it is like to be cis-sane minority in a predominantly bonkers-positive world.

It is like if they made black people play football for the Washington Wrongskins, and had separate drinking fountains: one for tap and one for Perrier.

Or something. The point is Tor really doesn't get it, whether the above statement is really coming from their employee, or especially if it is a hoax. "Heil heckler" and all that.

Blogger Franz Lionheart June 12, 2015 5:50 PM  

59. Student in Blue

Did a double take over the Lederhosen. I LOL'ed. Are you stalking me? How do you know I was born in Bavaria?

Blogger MidKnight (#138) June 12, 2015 5:50 PM  

@crazdmadman

Remember - WHITE is a color. It's not like we're clear or anything....

Like the comedian said - "I don't trust that guy, I can see right through him"

Blogger MidKnight (#138) June 12, 2015 5:53 PM  

I was born to human parents but am actually an internet "terror" bot inside...

#WrongSkin

Blogger Jeff Weimer June 12, 2015 5:58 PM  

A "carefully crafted attack"? So Vox put Gallo's fingers to the keyboard and typed her Facebook rant?

He really *is* the Dread Overlord.

Blogger Student in Blue June 12, 2015 6:06 PM  

@Franz Lionheart
Are you stalking me? How do you know I was born in Bavaria?

I broke the simple cryptography on your name.

Lion = King of the Jungle = Leader = Leder
Heart = where the Home is = House = English for 'Hosen'



(Luck, I guess)

Blogger Minion777 June 12, 2015 6:08 PM  

Stefan von Holtzbrinck - Chief Executive Officer

SUPERVISORY BOARD
Prof. Klaus-Dieter Lehmann (Chairman)
Bernd Scheifele (Deputy Chairman)
Prof. Jürgen Mlynek
Monika Schoeller

CONTACT
Verlagsgruppe Georg von Holtzbrinck GmbH
Gaensheidestraße 26
70184 Stuttgart
Deutschland
Phone: +49 711 2150-0
Fax: +49 711 2150-269
E-mail: info@holtzbrinck.com

Blogger Corvinus June 12, 2015 6:09 PM  

It's those little things that, although everyone understands what you meant to say, make your sentence sound really... foreignerish. (The combo "auf mein" sounds really weird, although it is perfectly clear you just literally translated "in my".) We call it "deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache". Sometimes I believe our forefathers (or rather, foremothers) have done that deliberately.

@Franz
Yup. I understand completely.

It's why I insist that Russian is actually an easier language than German. The awkward word order (dumping verbs or participles at the end of a clause, for example) is one big factor. The biggest pain for me is trying to remember whether a noun is masculine or neuter, since there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I know some by osmosis (der Kaffee, das Bier, der Vertrieb), but have otherwise given up.

Blogger ScuzzaMan June 12, 2015 6:09 PM  

Reading their website, Holzbrinck are a very SJW-ish kind of company themselves. The sparklepony blather is thick and vomitous.

But John Sargent, CEO of MacMillan Publishers, is ALSO on the executive board of Holzbrinck. He would seem to be the guy to address.

Blogger Rabbi B June 12, 2015 6:10 PM  

"So Vox put Gallo's fingers to the keyboard and typed her Facebook rant?"

Nope. Mind control.

Blogger Dan in Tx June 12, 2015 6:12 PM  

"At a conference, a friend encouraged me to say something in Japanese to his colleague...."

This reminds me of the running joke around my house. Since what Japanese I know is gleaned from watching subtitled anime, about all I would be able to muster if I ever went to Japan would be, "Student Council President", "Thank you", "I'm sorry" and "BAKA". Though, if I tried I might be able to confess my feelings on the roof of the school.

Blogger Corvinus June 12, 2015 6:15 PM  

Now we are not people, but bots.

I'm pretty sure this is just a lame attempt by SJWs to explain why so many people appear to despise them. Since IRL, or on venues where people have to use their real names like Facebook, anti-SJWs remain quiet for fear of having their lives destroyed, SJWs are always gobsmacked when people don't hold back when they're protected by the filter of anonymity. So, since they don't know any people IRL who think SJWism is stupid, they come to the conclusion that anti-SJWs are all bots.

Of course, they must then ask themselves as to how these bot generators are able to imitate a real e-mail so uncannily well. One would think that putting all the effort into tailoring each bot could just as well go into writing a genuine e-mail...

Anonymous Aethelred June 12, 2015 6:20 PM  

So Vox, for those of us greedy capitalist authors looking to get in on the ground floor of the Castalia House publishing empire, would you be willing to clarify a few things about what you're willing to publish?

1. You're fine with publishing books with female protagonists as long as they're decent characters and aren't pushing an agenda, right? And I'm assuming kung-fu without a really good justification is a bad idea.

2. You're asking for a Heian-era fantasy. Would you be satisfied with a setting that feels Heian-y or do you actually want it in the world of the Shining Prince? Forgive my request for clarification, I'm a wretched midwit.

3. Would you be willing to discuss the volume of Castalia novels now festering beneath the Quartermaster of Evil's Finnish castle, pulsing with a dark glow, awaiting only their fell master's command to be unleashed on the unsuspecting world, plunging it (the world, not the castle) into unending darkness? Are you getting enough submissions?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar June 12, 2015 6:23 PM  

You know, I have to wonder about this whole slash and burn strategy they're using. They want to jettison the White males who are over 90% of their audience and appeal to whom?
Those illiterate blacks who can't read their shampoo bottles? How about those Meskins who can't read Spanish either? Maybe the Chinese will enjoy Dino porn?
Print is dead. Trees and wood pulp are so 20th Century. Why clutter your house with wood pulp if you can have a library in your pocket?
Those vibrant new trans authors are going to appeal to nobody. I wonder what these people value more - politics or money? Oh, come now we all the answer don't we?

Anonymous T-800 formerly Donn #0114 June 12, 2015 6:30 PM  

I'm a cyborg. Haven't they seen Terminator? Not a bot. And I'm going to get that phased plasma rifle in the 40Watt range damn soon now.

Oh and WTF it asks me to identify all the food (as if I eat) then one of the pictures is of multicolored vibrators. Hell no I'm not eating that.

Blogger James Dixon June 12, 2015 6:38 PM  

> ...who created bots and have sent thousands of threatening emails to various people in the company

They can just never bring themselves to admit the possibility that they just might be outnumbered by sane people, do they?

> So... you're telling me that I need to load up on Neal Asher and JCW (Count to a Trillion series) right now... before we declare that boycott.

Seriously people, haven't you ever heard of used bookstores, libraries, or Bittorrent? It's not like there aren't alternative sources. If you think the author needs rewarded, send them a check.

Anonymous Ridip June 12, 2015 6:42 PM  

"I propositioned him using polite nightclub slang."

Vox, Why do you hate gay Japenese so?

Blogger Minion777 June 12, 2015 6:42 PM  

Most SJW have probably not went through any prolonged scarcity, resulting in spoiled emotionally-distorted semi-functional adults who can't make the connection between customer service / PR impact and their own livelihood.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 12, 2015 6:44 PM  

"... the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor"

Was this a typo or is this another way of saying that "good help is hard to find"?

Nate, unless you have had enough bourbon to be excused, no giving away of the historical reference.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit June 12, 2015 6:47 PM  

@Franz Lionheart

No, the suggestion is that you forgo your own immediate satisfaction in the hope of making the world a better place in the future for others - your ego my vary

Blogger James Dixon June 12, 2015 6:49 PM  

And yes, John Sargent is on the executive board at Holtzbrinck, along with the others listed above.

There is a supervisory board, however. It consists of:

Prof. Klaus-Dieter Lehmann (Chairman)
Bernd Scheifele (Deputy Chairman)
Prof. Jürgen Mlynek
Monika Schoeller

Now, not know much about how such companies work, I don't know the exact relationship between the executive board and the supervisory board. But it might be worthwhile finding out how to contact the members of the latter.

Blogger Eskyman June 12, 2015 6:55 PM  

Waaay back at the beginning of this thread, Guitarman said: I'm a bot, you're a bot, we're all bots.

OK, so we're all bots then!

That means I can add, "-bot" to my title, thus: Vile Faceless Minion-bot #0276

Have I got that right? I've always felt like I was part metallic, this explains it. Yeah, that's it, I 'feel' like a bot!

Oh, and @66. Franz Lionheart- I could feel your surprise at being "uncovered"- and LOL'd, but there are a lot of people on this blog who are not slow on the uptake, if you know what I mean!

#0276-bot, heh.

Anonymous JRL June 12, 2015 6:58 PM  

I'm a bot, you're a bot, we're all bots.

When the minions get into formation, we're rowbots.

Anonymous Bz June 12, 2015 6:59 PM  

That actually sounded rather encouraging. Thousands of letter ... has to be bots, surely they can't all be from customers? Meanwhile Doherty is apparently ready to disavow his previous letter, etc. Not to mention him getting caught in the friendly fire from behind. Things look a bit chaotic over there.


SadbutHopeful23 0 points 7 hours ago
Tor employee here...

DiDgr8 -3 points 2 days ago
I think the takeaway from this interchange has to be: Tom Doherty is (probably) a racist and/or homophobe who WANTS the puppies to do his "dirty work" (causing profitable controversy) while he keeps his hands "clean" and and therefore rakes in as many bucks as he can from both camps. If so, I think he has miscalculated his market and the tactic might backfire. And maybe he's not a racist OR homophobe, just a greedy, spineless capitalist.

[–]SadbutHopeful23 2 points 7 hours ago
He is neither: rather, he is an 80 year old man who "doesn't get social media" and responded to a carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in some of Tom's oldest friends and most established authors calling him, personally enraged, by what "they saw on them there internets being said by one of his lady workers." Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice. THAT was his error, rather than inherently being racist, homophobic, or greedy (he is none of those things, I know him personally).


And now Doherty is made out to be a doddering old fool ready to be put out to pasture, undercut by someone who might be an employee. I'd say it looks like he will either have to clean house or retire himself. Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied with Doherty's retirement if the Hateful Four of Tor stay on.

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 7:01 PM  

James, you can contact all Board members through Company official channels via the addy Minion777 provided. These days, with all the BS going on, I'd probably not do it any other way.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 7:03 PM  

1. You're fine with publishing books with female protagonists as long as they're decent characters and aren't pushing an agenda, right? And I'm assuming kung-fu without a really good justification is a bad idea.

Yes. Considering that I know an amount of Wing Chun, you had better really know your kung-fu if you're going to include it. And have a reason for it to be there. If you're just looking to have kick-ass waifus, no. I have personally beaten the crap out of women with black belts without them being able to touch me and I don't buy that nonsense.

2. You're asking for a Heian-era fantasy. Would you be satisfied with a setting that feels Heian-y or do you actually want it in the world of the Shining Prince? Forgive my request for clarification, I'm a wretched midwit.

What I'd really like is for it to be in the perceived world of the Shining Prince. Assume their mystical and spiritual beliefs to be true. Not the purely historical world of Shikibu and Sei Shonagon.

3. Would you be willing to discuss the volume of Castalia novels now festering beneath the Quartermaster of Evil's Finnish castle, pulsing with a dark glow, awaiting only their fell master's command to be unleashed on the unsuspecting world, plunging it (the world, not the castle) into unending darkness? Are you getting enough submissions?

We're getting enough submissions, we're not getting enough high-quality submissions. And I'm well behind on responding to them.

Blogger Steveo #238 June 12, 2015 7:06 PM  

I for won, wood never tolerate being dressed down in that manor, I'd let those suits have it write back. Certainly - sjws always lie...

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 12, 2015 7:07 PM  

that you are not a bot. And "thousands" of emails? I know people are pissed off, but I find that hard to believe. Dozens, definitely.
Leftists are usually bad at math. For example the 20yo black woman that started the Pool Hoax is identifying herself as a teen. The question is if she is too stupid to know teen means 13-19yo or if she is too stupid to do the math to figure out her age.

I'm a bot, you're a bot, we're all bots. I identify as an Orc Gargant

Those illiterate blacks who can't read their shampoo bottles? How about those Meskins who can't read Spanish either?

Why its just racism holding them down, quantum entangled racism that even affects the people in their homelands.

"I propositioned him using polite nightclub slang."Vox, Why do you hate gay Japenese so?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gay-Translator-Hookups-Languages/dp/1885948425

Anonymous Aethelred June 12, 2015 7:09 PM  

Thanks, Vox. I'll work on that last one for you.

Blogger James Dixon June 12, 2015 7:11 PM  

> James, you can contact all Board members through Company official channels via the addy Minion777 provided. These days, with all the BS going on, I'd probably not do it any other way.

Sorry, I'd missed that post in reviewing the information. :(
And yes, I agree that the official channels are the way to go at this point, but I'm not ready to go off half-cocked. I'll wait for our Evil Overlord to make the call before upping the ante.

You do have to wonder how the supervisory board of a German organization would react to one of them employee's calling folks neo-nazi's, though, don't you.

Anonymous MendoScot June 12, 2015 7:12 PM  

Hence the need for a proper Cherman to navigate the org chart and find out who the right people are.

I would have said the buck stops at Richard von Weizsäcker, but I see he died in January so that might be aiming a little high, as it were.

In March 2006, Holtzbrinck forced Tor Books, which is owned by Holtzbrinck, to stop making its books available as eBooks via Baen Ebooks because of concerns regarding the lack of digital rights management (DRM). These concerns abated in 2007 and selected Tor titles will soon be available as e-books via Baen and a variety of other online retailers. The company also received a good deal of attention when it bought the then leading German social networking platform StudiVZ in January 2007.
Holtzbrinck has total annual sales of 2.1 billion euros (as of 2005); 49% of sales are in Germany and 23% in North America. It had 2005 earnings before taxes of 142 million euros, and a total of 14,000 employees. Chairman of the group is Stefan von Holtzbrinck. John Sargent is CEO of Macmillan, the company that unites the US-based businesses of the group.[2]


From here.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 June 12, 2015 7:15 PM  

87. Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice.



From Holtzbrinck. com section on VALUES


Individuality

Our intellectually and culturally diverse company is driven by independent thought and actions. We think in terms of the individual and collaborative networks, not in terms of hierarchy.

Responsibility

Our responsibility extends beyond our daily work: we are committed in a larger sense to having a positive effect on the earth and on the society in which we live.

Anonymous Anon123 June 12, 2015 7:21 PM  

So if its true about no firings, the boycott is now on right?

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 12, 2015 7:24 PM  

Holy affirmative action bat man. The Massive data breach was discovered by people that came in to do a product demonstration. This is more of a criticism of affirmative action than the Obamacare website that had 3 asian/white guys in CA create everything it lacked over a weekend for free. #Asian/whiteprivilege
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/11/wow-the-federal-cyber-breach-was-not-discovered-by-u-s-govt-was-discovered-by-private-company-during-product-demo/comment-page-1/

Anonymous MendoScot June 12, 2015 7:26 PM  

From here.

Blogger VD June 12, 2015 7:27 PM  

So if its true about no firings, the boycott is now on right?

Not yet. Let's see what happens next week.

Blogger Dexter June 12, 2015 7:28 PM  

Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice.

Vox, your mental powers are AWESOME.

Hannibal Lecter had to be in an adjacent cell to talk Miggs into killing himself, but you are able to force an old man to do your bidding from 4,000 miles away.

I am proud to consider myself one of your ilk, My Master!

Blogger Salt June 12, 2015 7:29 PM  

So if its true about no firings, the boycott is now on right?

Vox is right; it's too soon. That there's a problem has to get from TOR to Macmillan, and still be an ongoing problem for Sargent to disclose to the executive board. Wouldn't want to cry wolf to soon up in the rarefied air of the Board. I'd go to Sargent first, as CEO Macmillan.

Blogger Krul June 12, 2015 7:36 PM  

"[Tom Doherty] is an 80 year old man who "doesn't get social media" and responded to a carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in some of Tom's oldest friends and most established authors calling him, personally enraged, by what "they saw on them there internets being said by one of his lady workers." Tom responded exactly how Vox Day wanted him to because he made the bad decision to not pause for a moment and ask other members of his team for their advice. THAT was his error, rather than inherently being racist, homophobic, or greedy (he is none of those things, I know him personally)."

If I were a boss and one of my employees went online and posted something like this about me, especially during a PR crisis when my company is taking a lot of flak, I'd probably be displeased.

It's a bad thing to say about a personal friend, too. Seriously, "them there internets"? What's next, jokes about adult diapers?

Yeah, I doubt it's legit. Who would talk about their employer or friend that way?

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 June 12, 2015 7:42 PM  

Terrorbots, no. Sexy ass loverbots who like to make fun of the goat lickers of Tor..... yes.

Blogger IM2L844 June 12, 2015 7:54 PM  

Not entirely off topic:

Philip "Verberabilis" Sandifer struggles to remain relevant.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz June 12, 2015 8:17 PM  

@BigGaySteve

I laud your choice of identification. I prefer forgeworld's Gigantic Squiggoth as mine, but I wholeheartedly endorse your Orkyness.

Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber June 12, 2015 8:19 PM  

Thing is, most Germans are leftist socialists, to say the least. To be a surviving company in Germany, it doesn't look good. Fact is, the only real thing that will work is protests with face time. If, and I say if, the press will report it. That's not insurmountable, but it requires ruthless tactics.

Blogger Russell (106) June 12, 2015 8:19 PM  

As a bot, you may call me Fisto

"Greetings. Fisto is programmed to please."

Blogger Nate June 12, 2015 8:21 PM  

Dread Ilk radio! 9 central.

AFT Show.

http://tobtr.com/s/7693655

Or just hit my blog. bloggerblaster.blogspot.com

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii June 12, 2015 8:37 PM  

Rabbi, may I perform a mitzvah and join the conspiracy ?

Blogger Corvinus June 12, 2015 8:40 PM  

carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in

So our Dark Lord has caused chaos within Tor Books.

Blogger Jourdan June 12, 2015 8:50 PM  

@Russell -

I am always very happy to see any F:NV references here!

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 12, 2015 8:58 PM  

I apologize that I have not taken part in this action before, but who are the relevant people I should contact at Tor and McMillan and what are their e-mail addresses? I am, of course, talking about upper management who should correct these abuses, not the nimrods who are making the asinine comments.

Blogger Tommy Hass June 12, 2015 8:59 PM  

"Du hast kein Vertrauen auf mein Deutsch?"

"in mein Deutsch", I believe. :)

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii June 12, 2015 8:59 PM  

Rabbi, may I perform a mitzvah and join the conspiracy ?

Anonymous BB June 12, 2015 9:00 PM  

Sehr geehrter Tor Vorstand,

die jüngsten Äußerungen einiger Ihrer Mitarbeiter bedrücken uns zutiefst. Als historisch kundige Intellektuelle sollte Ihnen bewusst sein, dass der Entnazifizierungsprozess der deutschen Gesellschaft, und damit auch der hiesigen Scifi-Leserschaft, gründlich und effektiv durchgeführt wurde.

Demnach entschüttert uns, seitens Ihres Verlages der Anklage des Neonazitumes belastes zu werden. Wir sehen uns infolge dessen gezwungen, umgehend personelle Konsequenzen Ihrerseits einzufordern, oder ansonsten, wenn auch unserem eigenem Unwillen (angesichts Ihres Vertrirebes von Autoren wie etwa John C. Wright) zu einem Boykott Ihres Verlages aufzurufen.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen, und bester Hoffung auf eine baldige Besserung der Umstände,

Ihre deutsche Leserschaft

Anonymous BB June 12, 2015 9:06 PM  

*wenn auch zu unserem eigenen Unwillen ...
BTW @ Tommy Hass: You're not from Cologne by any chance? I know that Franz lives in London, but I could swear there were a couple of Kölsch among the Ilk. Selamlar dostum

Anonymous The Kulak June 12, 2015 9:09 PM  

Meanwhile, on the subject of trolling -- our SJWs and fanatically pro-NSA trolls are mainsplaining and p'owning those Kremlin bots as I type this:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/209425/trolling-america?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow#

Blogger Patrikbc-EgyptianPrincess#wrongskin June 12, 2015 9:19 PM  

sure, because we have nothing better to do

Blogger D. Lane (#0067) June 12, 2015 9:26 PM  

function terrorBot () {
document.write ('Woof.');
window.open ('https://youtu.be/WofqmWpXJZ8');
}

Blogger Student in Blue June 12, 2015 9:27 PM  

@The Kulak
"Comments for this thread are now closed."

Quelle surprise.

I'm pretty sure they don't know what actual trolling looks like, and so instead just label it on anything they think is "bad" and "harmful".

Then again these kinds of people don't seem to give a shit about definitions and would rather just make stuff up.

Blogger Rabbi B June 12, 2015 9:58 PM  

"Rabbi, may I perform a mitzvah and join the conspiracy ?"

Well, of course. But first things first . . .

http://i.imgur.com/bNLJJEM.gif

. . . you provide your own ice. :0p

Good Shabbos! This has been fun ... gotta go ...

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 12, 2015 10:01 PM  

200 people? Bah. GamerGate is nine guys and an Amiga.

And maybe one of those acoustic modem suction cup doohickeys you use to dial in to the college mainframe to read the newsgroups.

Anonymous proud transnegro June 12, 2015 10:12 PM  

"[Tom Doherty] is an 80 year old man who "doesn't get social media" and responded to a carefully crafted attack by Vox Day who manipulated a situation that resulted in some of Tom's oldest friends and most established authors calling him, personally enraged, by what "they saw on them there internets being said by one of his lady workers."

I believe the technical term for this is "shitthatdidnthappen.txt"

Anonymous BGS June 12, 2015 10:12 PM  

Is Nate too drunk to do his show?

Anonymous The other robot June 12, 2015 10:23 PM  

That $40 was well spent.

Anonymous The other robot June 12, 2015 10:33 PM  

OT: Is the new 12 Monkeys series any good?

Blogger Positive Dennis June 12, 2015 10:44 PM  

I was so inspired by the comedy of this that I am watching the Marx brothers.

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 10:46 PM  

104. IM2L844 June 12, 2015 7:54 PM

Not entirely off topic:

Philip "Verberabilis" Sandifer struggles to remain relevant.


My comment, that was not accepted there:



"Mystiscism is an epistemology of non-rational truths."

John C. Wright.

Mr. Wright is correct here, but he is being kind.
Mysticism is simply Bullshit expoused by those unable to handle the truth.

In fact, mysticism is a mechanism conjured by those who need to avoid the truth.

Do with me as you will. It is still the truth.



Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 10:50 PM  

> I was so inspired by the comedy of this that I am watching the Marx brothers.

Excellent choice. Zany, yet profound, sort of.

Do you have any 3 stooges material. They are a riot. I imagine that is what is going on at Tor right now.

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 10:51 PM  

Knyuck, knyuck,knyuk

Anonymous The other robot June 12, 2015 10:52 PM  

OT: Somone in Britain finally figured out fertility problems.

Blogger Eric June 12, 2015 10:53 PM  

This Tor employee makes Tor Books sound even less professional and more haplessly dysfunctional than I'd imagined. If I were the Macmillan CEO, I'd clean house.

They should start at the top, too. Can any publisher headed by an old guy who "doesn't get" social media really survive in this day and age? The next twenty years are going to be tough for traditional publishers even if they do everything just right. And this is just about as far from "just right" as you can get.

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 10:56 PM  


.131. The other robot>


OT: Somone in Britain finally figured out fertility problems

Excellent pick up. Its Science!

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 11:02 PM  

They should start at the top, too.

Sorry , as I exclosed in 95. Not-So-Merry zen0
Their culture is teamic, not heirarchic.

The Big Cheeze Holtzinck will have to consult with his "team" (whoever that may be) before he does anything drastic.

(bwahaaaahaaaa)

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 12, 2015 11:04 PM  

Reading the comments are better than watching anything by the 3 Stooges!

Anonymous Steve June 12, 2015 11:07 PM  

IM2L844 - Lolz at Phildo Sandifer crying about "advocating for murder". He is known to the police for his own creepy murder fanfic... as those dang internet trolls over at ED have chronicled.

Anonymous Jonathan June 12, 2015 11:09 PM  

Isn't "lady worker" a hate crime these days?

Anonymous zen0 June 12, 2015 11:11 PM  

Actually, if this controversy is enough to illuminate that there actually is a hierarchy (in contradiction to the sjw* lie of team decisions, that would be a tactical victory that can be replicated.

Anonymous Steve June 12, 2015 11:14 PM  

Isn't "lady worker" a hate crime these days?

Only if you tell them to put down the Maltesers, get off Facebook, and do some work.

Blogger Jourdan June 12, 2015 11:16 PM  

Maltesers! Now, there is something I haven't heard about in a very, very long time. Takes me back, little Jourdan, Davidson Road newsagents, Croydon. It was a different world...

Blogger Laramie Hirsch June 12, 2015 11:43 PM  

I am so troubled by Gallo's recent statements. How can I trust this company in the future? It is as if they hold a promising product in one hand, but a sharpened stiletto in the other hand.

I wonder if I will soon have to seek out good fiction from other sources.

Anonymous Ain June 13, 2015 12:21 AM  

"What people read was a draft that hadn't been vetted by anyone and Tom was horrified when it went public."

An apology has to be vetted? What a freaking joke.

Anonymous Tom June 13, 2015 12:22 AM  

Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality? Do I need to hire a professional editor for it before I submit it? I wish I could get someone I didn't know who was literate enough to read and critique the first five chapters or something. I don't have any writer friends that will read things that aren't already done. AAARRRRGGGHHHH!

Blogger Groot June 13, 2015 12:25 AM  

I am Groot.

Anonymous The other robot June 13, 2015 12:36 AM  

I am Groot.

Wait! I thought you were Lugash!

Blogger Eric June 13, 2015 12:42 AM  

Their culture is teamic, not heirarchic.

Macmillan can fire the whole team if they want.

Blogger Eric June 13, 2015 12:48 AM  

An apology has to be vetted? What a freaking joke.

It's not a bad idea to have your lawyers look at that kind of stuff. The wrong wording can cost you money in a lawsuit.

Blogger Harsh June 13, 2015 12:48 AM  

I've personally programmed an army of terror bots to spam Tor employees with thousands of email. Unfortunately, all the email contain is recipes for frozen yogurt, but it's a start.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 13, 2015 12:51 AM  

Well he don't know talkin' good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to "I" and "am" and "Groot," exclusively in that order.

Anonymous Ain June 13, 2015 12:52 AM  

"the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor.


We don't care.

Blogger automatthew June 13, 2015 12:56 AM  

Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality? Do I need to hire a professional editor for it before I submit it?

Quality is not in the details, Tom. Your sentences have to be parseable, but not necessarily stylish. Think about what Vox says are the four elements of writing. I always forget what order he puts them in, but Style is not first.

Plot/Story comes first for me, but my favorite author, Gene Wolfe, has said in interviews that Character is paramount for him.

The remaining aspect is Concept/Idea. This can include what Scott Card called Milieu, but also what others might call Theme.

If your writing, be it ever so rough, can hit on two out of the primary three cylinders (Character, Story, Concept), it's likely to be considered of high quality.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. Don't worry whether your first five chapters are themselves high quality writing. Determine whether anyone cares about your characters, or cares about What Happens Next?

Blogger Robert Coble June 13, 2015 1:03 AM  

"The internal handling of this situation has been deplorable and the community should know that Tor employees are very, VERY angry at how a respected coworker was publicly dressed down in this manor."

SJWs live and work in the Tor manor; it's the manner to which they have become accustomed as the true guardians of the gates of SF/F stardom.

As for the supposed misspelling from Hamlet, Act I, scene 4:

"And to the manner born, ... (i.e., predisposed to the practice. This phrase is sometimes mistakenly rendered as "to the manor born", and used to mean 'of the privileged class”; see references for more on this one. In recent years this misconception has spread through the popularity of the British sitcom To the Manor Born, the title of which was a deliberate pun on Shakespeare's phrase.)"

Link: Phrases from Hamlet in common English

The context certainly implies that "manner" would have been more accurate, but it's amusing to contemplate the elitist attitude exposed by the use of "manor" instead.

Blogger maniacprovost June 13, 2015 1:14 AM  

We're getting enough submissions, we're not getting enough high-quality submissions.

Unfortunate. Sadly I am too busy to complete The Tale of Benji, my 1300 age Heian-era Inu gaiden. All I have so far is the title.

Blogger Owen June 13, 2015 1:15 AM  

How can they not take headsr?

If companies could, they'd ban all employees from social media for just this reason.

This dustup is bad PR, it has ginned up the legal departments, it distracts and reduces productivity, it creates countless rumors within the company that the corporate communications team has to listen for and quash, and it was completely unnecessary.

They were direct, full throated comments. No weasel words, no "you misunderstood." No mistaking she wanted to injure her targets.

If they want more headaches, slap the wrist. Because if she stays, they will trumpet victory and more comments will flow. Good luck firing the next one, since you let this one pass.

If they want to send a signal to all employees to stop dragging the company name into pissing matches, especially when you're slamming the product you want to sell millions of, walk into Tor and fire her, her boss (for creating an understanding that employees aren't concerned about breezily draining company resources to settle a pissing contest), and anyone else who utters so much as a hiccup when it happens.

They are burning up resources that are needed to compete in a market with tight margins and an uncertain future. All because people can't keep work at work an home at home.

Blogger maniacprovost June 13, 2015 1:18 AM  

Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality?

Slavish, literal-minded adherence to Strunk's Elements of Style. Also, write with the attitude that you must prove yourself cleverer than John Updike.

Blogger IM2L844 June 13, 2015 1:19 AM  

The context certainly implies that "manner" would have been more accurate, but it's amusing to contemplate the elitist attitude exposed by the use of "manor" instead.

Good eye, Bob. I totally missed that.

Blogger automatthew June 13, 2015 1:22 AM  

Probably I oversimplified Character in saying that it's concerned with whether any one cares about your characters.

One aspect of Character deals with the memorability and distinguishability of characters. Heinlein has been falsely accused of writing interchangeable heroes; van Vogt is actually culpable of it. Jack Vance's heroes are nearly puppets, but his villains ... they are memorable.

The "cares about what happens" aspect is more important for uncomplicated enjoyment, but I think it necessarily builds on the first aspect. Generic white-robed hero defeats generic dark robed villain is unlikely to produce emotional involvement.

Here I'm going to tread boldly in offering an apparent criticism of one of my other favorite authors, John C. Wright. I can clearly remember and distinguish many of the characters from his recent books and short works, but I care about vanishingly few of them. This has been startling to me, because the characters in his first two trilogies (Golden Age, Orphans of Chaos) engaged me in the way a scratch behind the ears engages my black Lab. Team Colin, reporting.

Don't mistake me: JCW's Count to the Eschaton sequence is definitely firing on the Character cylinder. So well that I find myself chagrined that I can't like Meany Montrose or Blackie Azarchel, or even the glorious Space Princess Rania. Mickey the Witch and the Fox Queen are tempting book-friends, but ephemeral in the narrative.

Gene Wolfe notoriously writes memorable, but unlikable characters, often as unreliable narrators. So likeability -- root-for-ability -- isn't required for the Character element. Another book full of great characterization is Catch-22, but is anyone in the book even remotely likeable? Possibly Orr, the grinning, apple-cheeked fool who manages to sail an inflatable lifeboat to Sweden. Everyone else is despicable, though we care about Yossarian because we share his viewpoint.


Anonymous Aethelred June 13, 2015 1:37 AM  

Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality?

Adding to that, are you seeing a pattern in what drags your low-quality submissions down? Is it more of a typographical quality thing or an I'm-just-not-caring-about-these-people thing?

Anonymous Satan's Hamster June 13, 2015 1:39 AM  

"All because people can't keep work at work an home at home."

I don't see the difference.

Suppose, in my day job, I work for Company X, and we do contract work for Company Y, one of our customers.

Suppose I go to the company X website and post 'Company Y is run by neo-Nazis!' Clearly that's a sacking offence for any sane employer, because it's going to cause a lot of aggro for Company X, if not cost a lot of money.

Now, suppose, I go to my Facetwitbook page, where people know I work for Company X, and say to my thousands of followers 'Company Y is run by neo-Nazis!'

What difference does it make that I posted from home? In my day job, I'm working for my customer, Company Y. How can they possibly work with me, if I think they're neo-Nazis? How could my employer continue to employ me, knowing that I think the customers are neo-Nazis and the customers know I think they're neo-Nazis?

Blogger Groot June 13, 2015 1:55 AM  

I like John C. Wright's pompous hero in Golden Age trilogy. I like Correia's Okie cog girl. Bronson Pinchot narrates a mean audiobook. Racoons rule.

Blogger automatthew June 13, 2015 2:05 AM  

Adding to that, are you seeing a pattern in what drags your low-quality submissions down? Is it more of a typographical quality thing or an I'm-just-not-caring-about-these-people thing?

I cannot speak for Vox, but I can make wild generalizations about slush piles.

Solecisms are not the problem with most writing. The content is more likely the problem, not the presentation.

Read your fiction aloud to someone:

1. Is it easy to read aloud, or do you trip over it?
2. Does your audience enjoy your performance?
3. Does your audience ask you for more?

Anonymous Jack Amok June 13, 2015 2:54 AM  

This Tor employee makes Tor Books sound even less professional and more haplessly dysfunctional than I'd imagined.

I figure that Tor employee is lying to herself (publicly, like SJWs do) to make herself feel better about what happened.

I'm a bot, you're a bot, we're all bots.

Take that, Capcha! We've been fooling you for months now!

Blogger Jim June 13, 2015 3:15 AM  

The really sad part about this whole situation is I am out of popcorn.

Blogger Crave Freestuff June 13, 2015 4:06 AM  

Crave Freebies for world residents are listed here. Updated daily. Crave Free Stuff to see the latest Free Samples offers.

Blogger Jason June 13, 2015 4:49 AM  

I don't know if the libel question got addressed.

There is no grounds for libel in the US. Take that from Lou Antonelli, newspaperman and over of the people Gallo attacked. He made mention of this and someone mentioned libel suit.

No one will have standing in the US because she didn't actually name anyone.

The Mad UK libel law migbt work but i think it would ultimately be a waste of time.

Anonymous al June 13, 2015 4:55 AM  

This might sound like an exercise in joke construction (it is), but what if actual neo-Nazis wrote a complaining letter to the parent company, demanding an apology from Tor (for being insulted) and demanding remedial training for Tor staff

As a joke, funny
As a reality... I doubt anyone here actually knows any neo-Nazis

Blogger Jason June 13, 2015 5:03 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Jason June 13, 2015 5:06 AM  

I find the use of the word bot deeply electrophobic.

The correct term is trans-mechanical and i am triggered into an involuntary segmentation fault and reboot by this comment.

This bigoted h8r should be fired.

Blogger Jim June 13, 2015 5:17 AM  

This bigoted h8r should GO TO 10.

Fixed that for you.

Anonymous zen0 June 13, 2015 5:33 AM  

167. Crave Freestuff June 13, 2015 4:06 AM

Crave Freebies for world residents are listed here. Updated daily. Crave Free Stuff to see the latest Free Samples offers.


Fat Shamer Bot

Anonymous zen0 June 13, 2015 5:42 AM  

@ 160. automatthew

Another book full of great characterization is Catch-22, but is anyone in the book even remotely likeable?

The Old Man in the Whorehouse was likeable for moi.



Capt. Nately: Don't you have any principles?

Old man in whorehouse: Of course not!

Capt. Nately: No morality?

Old man in whorehouse: I'm a very moral man, and Italy is a very moral country. That's why we will certainly come out on top again if we succeed in being defeated.

Capt. Nately: You talk like a madman.

Old man in whorehouse: But I live like a sane one. I was a fascist when Mussolini was on top. Now that he has been deposed, I am anti-fascist. When the Germans were here, I was fanatically pro-German. Now I'm fanatically pro-American. You'll find no more loyal partisan in all of Italy than myself.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

Capt. Nately: How do you know?

Old man in whorehouse: Because I am 107-years-old. How old are you?

Capt. Nately: I'll be 20 in January.

Old man in whorehouse: If you live.

Anonymous Steve June 13, 2015 6:35 AM  

Jourdan - Maltesers! Now, there is something I haven't heard about in a very, very long time. Takes me back, little Jourdan, Davidson Road newsagents, Croydon. It was a different world...

You can still get Maltesers in any newsagent.

Sadly, 5-4-3-2-1 bars are extinct, and for some damn reason they changed Opal Fruits and Marathon bars to the asinine sounding "Starburst" and "Snickers".

I'm not asking a shopgirl for a bloody "Snickers".

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 13, 2015 7:37 AM  

What a fascinating update, more pressure seems to mount at Tor. Wait n' see.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 13, 2015 8:32 AM  

It's interesting. My initial suspicion was the SadButHopeful23 was a subliterate and only slightly deranged SJW who is Facebook friends with someone at TOR and lives her life through her friend's.

It seemed kind of sad to me.

Now I'm not so certain. She seems to be reporting bottom of the corporate ladder rumors as facts. which explains why her story is constantly changing.

Blogger Nate June 13, 2015 9:21 AM  

"Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality? Do I need to hire a professional editor for it before I submit it?"

No.

Story story story.

Stop worrying about the writing. If the writing is the problem Vox and others can help you fix it. They consider it part of the job... and they will work with you on it.

The story is what matters. Is it a fun story that people will enjoy and want to read? Does it have a hook? Are the characters likeable?

that's what makes a good submission. Style is irrelevant.

Blogger Salt June 13, 2015 9:32 AM  

Read your fiction aloud to someone

It's not the best, but try the audio reader in Adobe Acrobat.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 13, 2015 11:17 AM  

.131. The other robot> OT: Somone in Britain finally figured out fertility problems Excellent pick up. Its Science!

Watch her get slammed by feminists for not wanting women to work while paying for crack hoes squatting out 21 kids.

Dangnabbit Vox, how do I make sure my submission will be high quality?

If you where a hugo award winning story my love. The hugo award winning story about writing a hugo award winning story.

Blogger maniacprovost June 13, 2015 5:15 PM  

I also want to point out, I love Christopher Nuttall's books, but I'd be hard pressed to help steal a Hugo for him, because he obviously writes them as fast as possible, has not style in his prose, and doesn't even lean up redundant sentences that he clearly should have edited. The stories are good, but could be improved, and the characters are good.

Blogger Tim June 13, 2015 6:29 PM  

So, since my first email was a bot, I will go into my library and take 4 pictures so a lot of Tor titles will be recognizable, and then reiterate that McKay's Used Books will be happy, but Tor and Amazon less happy, as I am old enough that waiting two weeks and buying for half price and sending the difference to the author is no big deal.

Anonymous JI June 13, 2015 7:08 PM  

All this drama is so very hard to keep track of. So I think I just won't buy any book published by Tor books until Vox says he's a Tor fan.

Blogger Moor June 14, 2015 3:56 PM  

I will be on the road and away from my computer, but I have mailed all 3 to register my thoughts. I did not attach a picture, but named every Tor book on my shelf to help give them a sense of my financial investment in their products over the years.

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