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Friday, June 19, 2015

Tor boycott announced

Peter Grant explains why he is no longer going to buy any Tor products:
Regrettably, due to the apparent lack of action by (and the deafening silence from) Tor and Macmillan, the time has come to do as I promised.  I therefore ask all those who believe, as I do, that the recent statement by Irene Gallo, and the pattern of behavior and statements from others at Tor whom I've previously named, are completely unacceptable, to join me in refusing to buy any of Tor's products from now on.

I support and endorse what Larry Correia said about this yesterday.

    ... this is between Tor and its readers who feel insulted, not the Sad Puppies campaign or the people who ran it ... To the Sad Puppies supporters, do what you think is right. All I’m asking is that whatever you do, try to be as civil as possible in your disagreements. Stick with the facts.

I am not a member of, and I do not speak for, either the 'Sad Puppies' or 'Rabid Puppies' campaigns (although I support the former).  I don't represent cute puppies, playful puppies, cuddly puppies or hush puppies - only myself.  If you share, in whole or in part, my values and outlook on life, I invite you to join me in this boycott.  Don't do so just because I, or anyone else, is asking you to do so.  Act on the basis of your own informed conscience and reasoned judgment.
As you can see, I have been a Tor Books customer since 1986, when I bought a mass market paperback copy of The Edge of Tomorrow by Isaac Asimov. And because I have considerably more experience of Tor Books and the consistently abusive and unprofessional behavior of its senior employees than Mr. Grant, I will go a little further than he has. Until Irene Gallo and Patrick Nielsen Hayden are no longer employed by Tor Books or Tor.com, I will not:
  1. Purchase any books published by Tor Books
  2. Read any books published by Tor Books
Given (2), this means that if Ms. Gallo and Mr. Nielsen Hayden are still employed by Tor Books in 2016, I will not nominate any books published by Tor Books for any awards.

I encourage those who deem Ms. Gallo's behavior to be unprofessional and unacceptable to follow Mr. Grant's lead and join the Tor Books boycott. I am the leader of the Rabid Puppies, I do speak for them, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they will follow my lead in this regard with all the vim and vigor for which they are rightly known.

I am not concerned about whether the boycott is "successful" or not. The simple fact is that if Macmillan is at all interested in the long-term success of Tor Books, it will jettison both Ms Gallo and Mr. Nielsen Hayden on the basis of their disloyalty, their unprofessional behavior, and their repeated violations of the Macmillan Code of Conduct, regardless of what any outside parties may happen to believe. I simply won't have anything to do with Tor Books as long as those two individuals are employed there.

There will be those who claim that the boycott will make no difference at all. They may well be correct. Regardless, in response I can do no better than to quote the wise words of the VFM. "We don't care."

Labels: ,

124 Comments:

Anonymous Who Dat June 19, 2015 1:22 PM  

Who run Barter Town?

Blogger maniacprovost June 19, 2015 1:26 PM  

Just because PNH is a huge jerk who attempted to harm your livelihood in the fiction industry, doesn't mean you have license to be a jerk and try to harm the man's livelihood... oh, wait, I guess it does.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes June 19, 2015 1:31 PM  



Arrrrghhh!...

Anonymous Book_Girl June 19, 2015 1:37 PM  

I am a rapid puppy, a vile minion, and a big fan of sci-fi and fantasy. We have a $75 per month book budget shared between me and my boys, the oldest of whom also loves to read sci-fi and fantasy. Easily a minimum of 50% of all books we buy each month are in the sci-fi/fantasy genre. Not a cent will go toward anything published by TOR books. I won't so much as even check out a TOR published book from my local library.

If TOR wants Gallo, it doesn't want my money.

Anonymous MEC June 19, 2015 1:37 PM  

Is there a way to start tracking Tor Books sales, historical and from this point on?

Anonymous WinstonWebb June 19, 2015 1:38 PM  

If PNH loses his job (and therefore disposable income), you should all go short on Frito-Lay and Kraft. You'll make a killing!

Anonymous KJ June 19, 2015 1:40 PM  

A question that is perhaps tangentially related:
Do libraries report back to publishers on books that are checked out? Also when libraries lone ebooks are there any royalties paid back to authors on those?

Blogger grendel June 19, 2015 1:40 PM  

#OpTorDrop is a go! I suspect it won't shake the earth right away, but that the next couple quarterly earnings will disappoint, and be blamed on the Bush economy and global warming and shit. A year from now there will be a "Totally unrelated" wholesale restructuring of the business.

Anonymous BGS June 19, 2015 1:43 PM  

OT turns out SJWs always lie. The Evangelical outreach gone wrong guy bought his own handgun and passed the background check. http://www.weaselzippers.us/226893-charleston-shooter-bought-gun-at-store-passed-background-check/

Anonymous Obvious June 19, 2015 1:43 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous SS June 19, 2015 1:44 PM  

Considering the lack of responses from the parent company, would it be worth considering expanding this to include anything out of Macmillan and other subsidiaries?

Blogger guest June 19, 2015 1:47 PM  

Are any of these Tor stories being produced into movies? I rarely read fiction these days, but I do frequent movies. I might not be able to help much, but I will gladly avoid any movies that are produced from these books, as long as I know which ones these are.

Anonymous Soga June 19, 2015 1:48 PM  

SS:
No. Give them time to come to a decision on what to do.

Anonymous Leonidas June 19, 2015 1:48 PM  

I am in with a caveat: if Mr. John C. Wright is willing to sell me ebooks of the remainder of his Count to Infinity series, I will still read them. But I won't buy them through Tor. Same holds for any other author who doesn'tis capable of respecting their customers more than their publisher doez.

Blogger automatthew June 19, 2015 1:48 PM  

Which of your numerous IP addresses are you using today, Obvious?

Blogger Corvinus June 19, 2015 1:50 PM  

Until Irene Gallo and Patrick Nielsen Hayden are no longer employed by Tor Books or Tor.com,

What about Moshe Feder? Not sure tossing Gallo and PNH will do much good if he's still there too.

Blogger Danby June 19, 2015 1:51 PM  

Since I was already not buying any Tor books, I've expanded my boycott to MacMillan. Out of an attempt to simulate normal human decency, I'm writing to Rhonda Brown to let her know that they've lost a customer.

VFM #0301

Anonymous Obvious June 19, 2015 1:51 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Boogeyman (VFM #0240) June 19, 2015 1:53 PM  

Two men enter, one man leaves.

You know, a lot of this crap would go away if we brought back duelling.

Blogger Danby June 19, 2015 1:54 PM  

@Leonidas
I am in with a caveat: if Mr. John C. Wright is willing to sell me ebooks of the remainder of his Count to Infinity series, I will still read them. But I won't buy them through Tor.

Wright, being an honorable man, would not undercut his publisher in this way. He is, however, free to show his manuscript to his friends.

Blogger RAH June 19, 2015 1:54 PM  

I posted this in an earlier thread but it probably fits better herer

If you want to change corporate behavior they respond to the bottom line or the money. Not always though. Chick Fila A will not open on Sundays as an example.

For those who are not old enough to recall Smith & Wesson foolish accommodation with the Clinton administration in attempt to maintain its business was a fatal error

To recap per "On March 17, 2000, Smith & Wesson made an agreement with US President Bill Clinton under which it would implement changes in the design and distribution of its firearms in return for "preferred buying program" to offset the loss of revenue as a result of anticipated boycott.[7] The agreement stated that all authorized dealers and distributors of Smith & Wesson's products had to abide by a “code of conduct” to eliminate the sale of firearms to prohibited persons, dealers had to agree to not allow children under 18 access, without an adult, to gun shops or sections of stores that contained firearms.[7]

As expected, thousands of retailers and tens of thousands of firearms consumers boycotted Smith & Wesson" Their sales dropped from over 100 million to a low of 71 million Then they were sold for pennies to SAFT Hammer for 45 million.

That is a boycott. Since then no a gun manufacturer will accommodate a gun control measure not approved by by the gun community.

Another example of a boycott was more recent at the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in Harrisburg PA It was the largest show in the east coast It had over 1000 vendors and 500 outfitters.
Reed Promotion ran the show and they banned AR15 and the evil black rifle. I solidarity most of the vendors who had nothing to do with guns pulled out of the show and lost their deposits The show was cancelled and Harrisburg Pa lost millions.

The NRA decided they would take on the show and it was renamed and the next year it ran and most people were happy. IT is now called the Great American Show. Manufacturers of guns and equipment were sought after to be vendors.

These are two very sucessful boycotts that worked . Take a lesson from the gun rights people . Do not compromise and if one is quisler , shaft that company or person.

Anonymous LGrin June 19, 2015 1:57 PM  

Just picked up Marie Brennan's "A Natural History of Dragons: A Memoir by Lady Trent"

Blogger Giraffe June 19, 2015 1:58 PM  

PNH needs to get the Jim Zumbo treatment.

Anonymous 334 June 19, 2015 1:59 PM  

Count me in. Game on.

Blogger rcocean June 19, 2015 2:01 PM  

I can't join the boycott because I started boycotting Tor last year. I don't buy SJW products - period. And I won't vote for Jeb Bush either - no matter how much he begs me in Spanish.

Blogger RAH June 19, 2015 2:02 PM  

Yes, I thought of mentioning Zumbo, but thought that may be overkill. However SF&F is a group divided so the same power dynamics do not exist. The NRA had to be taken over by gun rights activist for them to more effective. But since that happen they listen to the open carriers , conceal carriers and target shooters. They no longer support just the hunters .

Blogger Jack Ward June 19, 2015 2:04 PM  

I'm so glad I've already purchased JCW Architects of Aeons. Now, I can hope that Tor gets it all together by the time the last of the Count to a Trillion series is done. Please.

As per the Commands of the Evil Lord of Evil and Darkness, or whatever he is calling himself this week, I will comply with the spirit and ruling of the boycott.

Anonymous IOUA Blowjob June 19, 2015 2:06 PM  

I quit reading Tor books in 2005 for the attacks Teresa the Toad made upon myself and other wrirters. Tor has no idea how hurtful those people are to their brand. I pray they find out now, even to the cost of them not having a brand any longer.

Blogger Kurt June 19, 2015 2:08 PM  

wait, are any other books part of Tor like Baen? I tried looking it up and they did not appear to be the same company

Anonymous FP June 19, 2015 2:09 PM  

A recent version of Zumbo is Dick Metcalf, former gun writer from Illinois who thought that maybe we should have a test to get a gun permit.

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/the-company-of-enemies-dick-metcalf-and-guns-ammo/

Heck even with many recent examples you still have many gun rights people get squeamish with things like open carry. The SAF and the NRA are demonizing open carry activists across the country and just advocating fighting in the courts, the legilslatures and public opinion.

Blogger GK Chesterton June 19, 2015 2:09 PM  

Opinions on the Hugos? I'm torn on this. Three Body was good but should the boycott cover awards? I'm leaning towards yes.

Blogger Jack Ward June 19, 2015 2:10 PM  

@ Leonidas He is, however, free to show his manuscript to his friends.

I would be happy to proof read his manuscript and, of course, sent him at least a $20 donation to his work.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 2:11 PM  

Opinions on the Hugos? I'm torn on this. Three Body was good but should the boycott cover awards? I'm leaning towards yes.

I've already read the books. No reason to punish the authors for their publisher's behavior. But obviously, if I don't read the books next year, I cannot nominate any of them in good conscience.

Anonymous Anonymous June 19, 2015 2:12 PM  

Vox, im curious if you aren't going to read anything published by Tor does that include books you have already purchased like the ones in the pic?

ive made up my mind on what im going to do but at the same time I do still have some good books I enjoy reading that are tor's

-AmicusC

Blogger Jack Ward June 19, 2015 2:12 PM  

@31. I would say no, at this point. 3 body was pretty darn good and it came out and was recco by the Dark Lord well before this boycott was ordered. I have already voted for it [though, you can go back and change your vote anytime before the deadline]

Anonymous Porky June 19, 2015 2:16 PM  

PNH needs to get the Jim Zumbo treatment.

You mean we should send in Ted Nugent?

Anonymous philip VFM 023 June 19, 2015 2:21 PM  

I'm Vile because they despise what I like. I'm Faceless because they don't think I matter and am of little consequence. I'm a Minion because they think I can't think for myself.

But I don't care.

And that should scare them.

And though there may not be as many with my Rabid bloodlust for carnage and destruction, there are a good many more Vile Faceless Minions out there than they realize. By the time they realize it, be it now or in a thousand years, it will be too late, and I will be fighting with the other Vile Faceless Minions over how many skulls I can take home to mount on my wall.

Blogger Brad Andrews June 19, 2015 2:24 PM  

Three body was quite interesting, though I did not appreciate the abrupt ending. It needed some closure beyond mere allusion. Though it may be just pointing to a sequel.

At least JCW has 2 more books in the series, so waiting for the second to be complete to acquire the other would not be as bad. I had series that aren't finished, but he is worth reading. I suspect he will still do fine even with this. I would ultimately hope his rights would revert, but I am not sure if that happens as much these days.

Blogger Achillea June 19, 2015 2:28 PM  

Just de-Tored my Amazon wishlist so nothing will get unwittingly bought on my behalf. The only one I'm really going to miss is F. Paul Wilson's "Dark at the End." I do loves me some Repairman Jack.

Anonymous Edjamacator June 19, 2015 2:29 PM  

I have had to do my own personal boycotts of a few companies now, and I will add Tor to that list. I know it means nothing to them, but I don't care. I just know I'm not giving them any of the money I'm allowed to keep after the government steals a portion from me.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 19, 2015 2:34 PM  

There are libraries, used book stories, and in the end, bit torrent sites if need be.

I will finish "Count to a Trillion" via those options.

Anonymous bill June 19, 2015 2:37 PM  

I just wanted to mention to those who want to read John C. Wright's Tor books but aren't going to do it the "traditional way" that he has a tip jar at his blog that lets you donate.

Blogger Rabbi B June 19, 2015 2:39 PM  

"There will be those who claim that the boycott will make no difference at all."

Yeah, because G-d forbid we should be driven and live by our principles rather than the results. Where would we all be if eleven men had chosen expedience and results over principles and faithfulness?



Blogger GK Chesterton June 19, 2015 2:41 PM  

Will do Bill. Once I get to that series.

Anonymous FriarBob June 19, 2015 2:42 PM  

Jim Baen was their employee a long time ago but found his own company at least 20 (I think 30+) years ago.

They have authors they share and people whk have friends in both companies, but I'm pretty sure there is no *direct* relationship

Anonymous Giuseppe June 19, 2015 2:45 PM  

VD,
you grow soft in your old age Red Man.
I will not have anything to do with Anything Tor OR Anything MacMillan until all three, including Moshe Feder are out on their ass.

Blogger pdwalker June 19, 2015 2:49 PM  

I'm good with not buying from Tor, after all, that's what good Neo Nazis do.

Sieg Heil!

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 2:51 PM  

Vox, im curious if you aren't going to read anything published by Tor does that include books you have already purchased like the ones in the pic?

Yes. I've already read most of them anyhow.

They have authors they share and people whk have friends in both companies, but I'm pretty sure there is no *direct* relationship

Tom Doherty Associates owns 25 percent of Baen, if I understand the relationship correctly, but beyond some co-distribution the two companies are entirely separate. Baen isn't involved in this.

Blogger Rabbi B June 19, 2015 2:52 PM  

" . . . that's what good Neo Nazis do."

I heard they also do book burnings . . .

http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2015/02/nazi-book-burning-e1423401566685.jpg

Blogger Jack Ward June 19, 2015 2:52 PM  

38. Brad Andrews June 19, 2015 2:24 PM

Brad, JCW's Architect of Aeons is out with one more to go. Three Body has two sequels to go, I believe, with the first due out this summer. I, will of course, wish to buy it and others he wrote. Maybe Macmillan can clean up Tor in time for all that.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 2:52 PM  

I will not have anything to do with Anything Tor OR Anything MacMillan until all three, including Moshe Feder are out on their ass.

I'm not entirely sure Feder is even an employee proper. I think he's a freelancer they use, so it's not appropriate to hold Macmillan responsible for him.

Blogger RAH June 19, 2015 2:53 PM  

FP,

Yeah and Metcalf suffered professionally from that stupid opinion. He stood by it so I have not sympathy for him He was not rehabilitated like Zumbo

Blogger Rabbi B June 19, 2015 2:56 PM  

"I'm not entirely sure Feder is even an employee proper."

So, he really didn't have any skin in the game when he stood bravely by Ms. Gallo's side? What a putz.

Anonymous Giuseppe June 19, 2015 2:59 PM  

I'm not entirely sure Feder is even an employee proper. I think he's a freelancer they use, so it's not appropriate to hold Macmillan responsible for him.

I've been a freelancer for over a dozen years. I definitely hold them responsible.
Even more so actually. Freelancers can be let go in minutes.

Anonymous Alexander June 19, 2015 3:01 PM  

I disagree.

Are we not 'punishing' Tor authors who we like, because of the editor? Mr. Wright calls gold, trash, but that does not change the fact that trash is being withheld.

No Tor books for Hugo's this year. Or rather, Tor books will default to below No Award until such time that Gallo and Hayden are no longer at Tor. If Tor/Macmillan decides to keep them on for weeks and weeks until after WorldCon, that's there business.

But if Hugo's have any prestige or monetary value whatsoever, or even if their only currency is SJW goodfeels... I refuse to do anything that gives such to Tor.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 19, 2015 3:14 PM  

The SJW at Tor should double down, call this The year of purity, yep that sounds good

Blogger ray June 19, 2015 3:15 PM  

I don't even know what Sad Puppies is. Or who they consist of. But I know what the Hugo Awards are, and I know what they used to be. And I definitely know what PC-fascism and totalitarian feminism are, as I've experienced and witnessed them for many decades.


Expecting Corporate America, including MacMillan, to separate from PC thuggery is absurd, as government, corporations, and academia have been vetted for forty years to ensure that only the Korreckt have employment and power in these corrupt institutions.


Why would these persons and groups voluntarily back-off from the very agendas that have put them into positions of power, wealth, and influence? Ain't gonna happen. If you want authentic Hugo Awards, or authentic anything-else, you are going to have to fight for it.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 3:23 PM  

Why would these persons and groups voluntarily back-off from the very agendas that have put them into positions of power, wealth, and influence? Ain't gonna happen.

Because the SJW agenda is not one that put them into positions of power, wealth, and influence. It didn't exist 40 years ago.

Anonymous JRL June 19, 2015 3:27 PM  

I'm in.

Btw, is Tom Doherty and Associates fair game? I've got books published by TDA and Amazon says the publisher is Tor.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 3:28 PM  

Btw, is Tom Doherty and Associates fair game?

Yes, that is Tor.

Anonymous 204 June 19, 2015 3:32 PM  

"I will not nominate any books published by Tor Books for any awards"
Do you plan these strategies in advance or do they come to you as you type?

Blogger Groot June 19, 2015 3:34 PM  

What great fun! Vox, along with the Indian and Mexican, is there any raccoon in the mix? There ain't no thing like you except you. Some of my best friends are raccoons.

Blogger Danby June 19, 2015 3:42 PM  

Nothing says "shut up, gay aspie asshole" like Obivous' comments being deleted.

Anonymous FriarBob June 19, 2015 3:43 PM  

I thought the codististribution agreement fell through... did I miss something?

Anonymous Thobby (#58) June 19, 2015 3:44 PM  

If Moshe Feder has no position of authority at Tor, he should stop referring to himself, as he does on his website, as a "Consulting Senior Editor at Tor". No doubt the "Consulting" part does mean that he's on contract, but "Senior Editor at Tor" means something too.

Blogger Chiva June 19, 2015 3:45 PM  

On Audible many of the Tor books listed 'Macmillan Audio' as the publisher.

Blogger Victor June 19, 2015 3:53 PM  

Hail aggressive action! Regarding good authors who are on Tor / Macmillan . Buy their non-tor works or send them money by other means. Authors: be sure you accept paypal and bitcoin or have some other method of accepting money like patreon, flattr, etc. And get off Tor of course and tell us all about it. As for the Tor works themselves, seek them out by other means than purchasing if you must. Ie borrow book from friend. But be sure to take the opportunity to explore and support publishers and authors who are more supportive.

Anonymous Alexander June 19, 2015 3:53 PM  

Much as how a Chinese anchor baby or a Guatemalan 'youth' are not magically Americans by magic of geography, so too one isn't magically "Ilk" by virtue of a web address.

You'd think around here at least, that would be Obvious.

Blogger ray June 19, 2015 4:07 PM  


"Because the SJW agenda is not one that put them into positions of power, wealth, and influence. It didn't exist 40 years ago."



I was in both education and the workplace forty years ago, and the SJW agenda was definitely alive, although certainly not progressed to its current level of power and influence. For example, in 1976 when I attended a California college, I clearly recall the pressure that some female professors and academic staff put on students to support the exclusive hiring of women to faculty positions. It was not pandemic then, but it did exist and I am not a liar.


Were you in college or in the workplace in 1975? Were you interacting with feminist professors or with PC elements in government jobs? If so, please elaborate on your knowledge and experience. If not, how would you know from direct experience what was happening in such places, and what level of SJW-ism existed? Because you are omniscient and the Leader of the Sad Puppies or whatever?

Get a grip this is not about You.

Blogger Daniel June 19, 2015 4:09 PM  

Ray, get a grip. This is not about You.

Anonymous Sun Xhu June 19, 2015 4:11 PM  

Awww.... isn't disqualify troll cute? You go ray.

Blogger Daniel June 19, 2015 4:12 PM  

And don't be stupid. Since you saw the infancy of the SJW agenda in its California college cradle 39 years ago, you are actually making Vox's case that it did not exist 40 years ago.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 4:17 PM  

Were you in college or in the workplace in 1975? Were you interacting with feminist professors or with PC elements in government jobs? If so, please elaborate on your knowledge and experience. If not, how would you know from direct experience what was happening in such places, and what level of SJW-ism existed? Because you are omniscient and the Leader of the Sad Puppies or whatever?

Well, Ray, since clearly you haven't done a damn thing to successfully oppose the SJW agenda in 40 years, whereas I have been part of two successful sallies against them in the last year, I suggest you shut up, stop whining about how they are irresistible, and follow my lead.

If you're just going to keep whining like a useless old man who is too decrepit to fight them, then go away and sit on your porch or something.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 4:18 PM  

I thought the codististribution agreement fell through... did I miss something?

Maybe it did. I'm not privy to the details of either operation.

Blogger Rabbi B June 19, 2015 4:30 PM  

" . . . disqualify troll"

Defeatist Troll ...

http://www.troll.me/images/brace-yourselves/brace-yourselves-the-spiritualistsnihilistsobscurantistsdefeatists-have-arrived.jpg

Blogger Chris Scena June 19, 2015 4:32 PM  

Obvious,

Go hang, bro.

Anonymous Ferd June 19, 2015 4:32 PM  

I wonder if Obama will do a few drone attacks on Tor? Tor sounds sort of terroristy???

Blogger Jourdan June 19, 2015 4:35 PM  

This is really heartening to see. We'll done all.

Blogger SQT June 19, 2015 4:45 PM  

I have been on vacation so I haven't been able to send in pictures of my collection of Tor books- and it's sizable. I will definitely be joining the boycott. Tor can endorse any ideology they want-- but I don't have to pay to have it shoved in my face.

Blogger Daniel June 19, 2015 4:46 PM  

Ha! Just saw that Jim C. Hines made a plea to Mike Glyer for him to stop doing the roundups.

Man, this is not going well for the SJWS and we are only the first few months into our first decade of pushback.

Blogger Chris Scena June 19, 2015 4:49 PM  

Vox,

Did Obvious get banned? I usually see a comment from you when someone's comments have been taken out.

Thanks.

Anonymous Nathan June 19, 2015 4:55 PM  

"Ha! Just saw that Jim C. Hines made a plea to Mike Glyer for him to stop doing the roundups."

I know Glyer took some heat from Sarah and the Huns for them as well. So, what's the other side's rationale?

Anonymous Cebollita June 19, 2015 5:02 PM  

I can already see The Onion headline --

"People who Buy Few Books From TOR Announce They Will Buy Even Fewer Books From TOR"

The world trembles!

Blogger rcocean June 19, 2015 5:11 PM  

Ray reminds me of the Waco Kid:

"Well, it got so that every piss-ant prairie punk who thought he could shoot a gun would ride into town to try out the Waco Kid. I must have killed more men than Cecil B. DeMille. It got pretty gritty. I started to hear the word "draw" in my sleep. Then one day I was just walking down the street and I heard a voice behind me say "Reach for it, mister!" I spun around. And there I was face to face...with a 6-year-old kid! Well, I just threw my guns down and walked away. The little bastard shot me in the ass! So I limped to the nearest saloon, crawled inside a whiskey bottle and I've been there ever since."

Blogger Tommy Hass June 19, 2015 5:11 PM  

"Where would we all be if eleven men had chosen expedience and results over principles and faithfulness?"

Aren't you a Jew?

Anonymous Scintan June 19, 2015 5:14 PM  

I can already see The Onion headline --

"People who Buy Few Books From TOR Announce They Will Buy Even Fewer Books From TOR"

The world trembles!


Abbey
P. Anderson
K. Anderson
Anthony
Asprin
J. Barnes
S. Barnes
E. Bear
G. Bear
Benford
O.Card
Carter
Carver
Clarke
Clement
G. Cook

That's just some of the TOR authors who's books I have, in the A-C listing. That doesn't count one-offs where I can't remember if I've still got the book, it doesn't count the classics (Austen) or generally non-SF authors (Clancy). It doesn't count any page 2 authors in any of the A-C letters.

In short, just my private purchases of TOR books alone run into the hundreds.

The boycott may not end up being effective, but it will involve more than just people who don't usually buy TOR books.

Blogger Rabbi B June 19, 2015 5:22 PM  

"Aren't you a Jew?"

So were they.

Anonymous Anonymous June 19, 2015 5:31 PM  

So I am thinking if the idea is to cut into Tor's bottom line that I am going to sell most of the Tor books I own to a used book store. If enough people did the same thing then the amount of Tor books demanded would be supplied by the used books market rather then the new books supplied by Tor. The used book store will get the profit and Tor will get none.

If my thinking is wrong here, or the business of used books or economics please tell me.

- Hooc Ott

Anonymous Krul June 19, 2015 5:32 PM  

ray - "If you want authentic Hugo Awards, or authentic anything-else, you are going to have to fight for it."

ಠ_ಠ

What a novel idea.

Blogger rcocean June 19, 2015 5:34 PM  

I agree with not only not buying more TOR books but dumping the ones you have. Especially if they are still in print.

Blogger rcocean June 19, 2015 5:34 PM  

BTW, if you're not buying anymore Scalzi - write and tell him so. It makes him happy.

Blogger Daniel June 19, 2015 5:37 PM  

Tor Books wants YOU to burn Tor Books, or else you are a neonazi...or an author of bad to reprehensible works.

Anonymous Beau June 19, 2015 5:39 PM  

a useless old man who is too decrepit to fight them, then go away and sit on your porch or something.

Ha! Just yesterday at lunch, "I'd be an old bloodhound sitting on the porch. Why I knew a musician who had an old deaf bloodhound. That dog would lay directly in front of the drum kit while the band banged out bluegrass." Oh, take me to the porch - but not yet. Anybody ever heard of Caleb?

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 19, 2015 5:40 PM  

Pretty Sure Lgrin was banned too. Isn't that GG?

Blogger Quizzer W June 19, 2015 5:47 PM  

I posted about this on another thread earlier, and wow! IMAX gave an actual apology for their behavior! Perhaps Tor could learn something from this.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/imax-apologizes-to-ars-for-its-trademark-retraction-demand/

Blogger John Wright June 19, 2015 6:13 PM  

@ Jack Ward
" I would be happy to proof read his manuscript and, of course, sent him at least a $20 donation to his work."

I accept the offer. Go to my website and scroll to the bottom. My email is there. Drop me a line. I have many spelling errors in my manuscript, and can always use a second pair of eyes.

Blogger John Wright June 19, 2015 6:23 PM  

@ 50. Jack Ward
"Brad, JCW's Architect of Aeons is out with one more to go."

Incorrect. Two more to go, not one. VINDICATION OF MAN is on the desk of my editor at Tor right now; and COUNT TO INFINITY is going to land on his desk in a fortnight.

And I destroy the universe at the end, so there are no sequels.

I told Tor I could do it in four books, but the tale grew in the telling due to a law of nature discovered by Jordan called fat fantasy splurge -- Tor very graciously allowed me two more volumes to complete the epic, which is one of the reasons why I am endlessly grateful to them.

And one reason why I hope this boycott will bring them to their sense quickly, so that they may return to business without this social justice bull-shirt and political correctness politics interfering with story-telling and money-making.

Blogger VD June 19, 2015 6:36 PM  


Did Obvious get banned? I usually see a comment from you when someone's comments have been taken out.


Yes, months ago.

Blogger automatthew June 19, 2015 6:42 PM  

I went to a Friends of the Library book sale today. Was surprised to find a Kratman among all the Mercedes Lackeys and Andre Nortons (Countdown: M Day). Was even more surprised to find two Jeff Sutton books I'd never heard of. Also some early PKD mass markets, and a Jack Vance Ace double (both sides by Jack Vance). Original Berserker mass market, some Keith Laumer.

Almost everything I bought, except for the Kratman, is older than I am.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 19, 2015 6:51 PM  

Cebollita "People who Buy Few Books From TOR Announce They Will Buy Even Fewer Books From TOR" The world trembles!

More like "Man who never used tranny black male prostitutes warns other people to avoid tranny black male prostitutes citing their recent treatment of customers. Learn from Marian Barry's mistakes." Does that make more sense to you?

Blogger Dexter June 19, 2015 6:55 PM  

BTW, if you're not buying anymore Scalzi - write and tell him so. It makes him happy.

I told him so when I made that decision back in 2007. He said he was just fine with conservatives not buying his books.

So I am thinking if the idea is to cut into Tor's bottom line that I am going to sell most of the Tor books I own to a used book store.

If someone scanned them and put them on the internet for free, that would hurt Tor.

Not that I would advise anyone to do that...

Blogger Dexter June 19, 2015 6:56 PM  

"People who Buy Few Books From TOR Announce They Will Buy Even Fewer Books From TOR"

Guess we'll find out how much Tor cares about the difference between "few" and "zero".

Anonymous Harsh June 19, 2015 7:04 PM  

People who Buy Few Books From TOR Announce They Will Buy Even Fewer Books From TOR

I love how the scared little Gamma boys are so afraid of failure that they mistakenly think we are, too. Maybe the boycott succeeds and maybe it doesn't, but that's okay. We don't care.

Anonymous Anonymous June 19, 2015 7:27 PM  

@101. Dexter

"If someone scanned them and put them on the internet for free, that would hurt Tor.

Not that I would advise anyone to do that..."

Pointless. The books are already there in torrent form...along with pretty much any S/F book you can think of.

Anyway the pirates already pirate same as they always have. I like reading paper and I think a large portion of Tor's bottom line depends on paper and if the used books I own are sold to the same kind of paying audience I am it would have a greater effect than just adding another copy of an already present torrent to piratebay.

- Hooc Ott

Blogger Cail Corishev June 19, 2015 7:55 PM  

Pointless. The books are already there in torrent form...along with pretty much any S/F book you can think of.

Yes. Which is another thing the older gatekeepers still don't get: if you treat your customers like the enemy or like a flock of sheep to be sheared, how much of a moral obligation will they feel toward your technical legal rights?

More than ever, publishers can't afford to act like dicks.

Blogger Mathew Moravek June 19, 2015 8:04 PM  

@Hooc Ott Hmm, buying anything in the future used would definitely help, and I suppose the more that are available used then the easier it will be for us who are boycotting to trade with each other, especially if they're online. It'd help avoid using the library too which I suspect might be helping them in a small way. I like where you're going. Time to get creative.

Blogger Elocutioner0226 June 19, 2015 8:23 PM  

"What a novel idea." -Krul

"And I destroy the universe at the end, so there are no sequels." - JCW

lololol

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 June 19, 2015 8:27 PM  

Just kicking ideas around. Instead of dumping or burning the old Tor books, consider sending them on down to the Flatiron Bldg. in a big empty box. Ask Tor for a refund, perhaps due to Deceptive Trade Practice, libel, harboring pedos, or what have you.
A nice big box ( L x W x H < 110" or so ) with one paperback it should also have loud stickers on all six sides of it- HANDLE WITH CARE, BOYCOTT TOR, GALLO MUST GO, FRAGILE, stuff like that. Be sure to request a refund for S&H as well.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly June 19, 2015 8:40 PM  

I gave upon modern sci fi and fiction many years ago, as I said in my emails. I am therefore among the crowd intending to boycott MacMillan.. Using cutting edge academic research techniques (also known as browsing wikipedia for 30 seconds) it turns out MacMillan is just a front for a larger German company, The Verlagsgruppe Georg von Holtzbrinck Group, the original MacMillan having gone bankrupt and been bought out.

I gather that MacMillan in the US is responsible for over a dozen different imprints in the US. These I shall obviously be boycotting.

In Australia we also have a lot of books published in the UK (probably because Americans can't spell) using the name MacMillan but I am not sure the MacMillan in the UK is in anyway responsible for Tor in America.

If the boycott of Tor does not work would a boycott of everything published by the German parent company be the next move? Force them to come down hard on some way down the food chain little imprint in America.

Here is a list of what MacMillan in the US controls:

Farrar, Straus and Giroux
Faber & Faber
Henry Holt and Company
Holt Paperbacks
Metropolitan Books
Times Books
Owl Books
Palgrave Macmillan
Picador
Roaring Brook Press
Neal Porter Books
First Second Books
St. Martin's Press
Tom Doherty Associates
Tor Books
Bedford, Freeman and Worth Publishing Group
W.H. Freeman
Bedford-St. Martin's
Worth Publishers
Hayden-McNeil
Nature Publishing Group
Scientific American, Inc.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 19, 2015 8:40 PM  

I'm a vile faceless minion and I endorse this message

Anonymous IncoherentM June 19, 2015 8:55 PM  

I'm finishing the two JCW books I recently purchased, but I'll pass on the other Tor books I was planning on buying. They don't appear to want my money anyway.

Blogger intuitivereason June 19, 2015 9:55 PM  

I wonder where most pressure could be brought to bear? Book chains? E-book retailers?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 19, 2015 9:55 PM  

Boycott affirmed.

At this junction gamergate updates or news should follow, SJW's lie, swirl and distract from other matters.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 19, 2015 9:56 PM  

Amazon and other retailers are watching this matter much closer than others proposed.

Anonymous zen0 June 19, 2015 10:11 PM  

@ Ray

Were you in college or in the workplace in 1975? Were you interacting with feminist professors or with PC elements in government jobs?

I was. My brother became a Marxist Historian. His wife is a rabid Commie English Lit Prof retired.

Both of them think this iteration of "Cultural Marxists" are loonies. Petite Bourgeois pretenders. No connection to the working class whatsoever.

Useful idiots of the Oligarchy.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 19, 2015 10:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 19, 2015 10:23 PM  

Edit; Rabid, rabid solipsism type Zero boomer chics.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 19, 2015 10:25 PM  

Due to the incredibly problematic clusterfrick at Tor and utter hatred towards our innocent host, I doubt any film offers.

Blogger Jack Ward June 19, 2015 10:26 PM  

96. John Wright June 19, 2015 6:13 PM

Done!

Very happy indeed to be wrong about the series count.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 19, 2015 11:40 PM  

Since I haven't bought anything from Tor for a couple of years anyway, I figured I'd just buy more from Castalia, including a Brainstorm pass.

Anonymous bw June 19, 2015 11:41 PM  

Because the SJW agenda is not one that put them into positions of power, wealth, and influence. It didn't exist 40 years ago.

Marxism didn't exist 40 yrs ago?
This is a Century Old. Not just 4 decades.
The money power is much older than 40 years.
Maybe that's our problem.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 20, 2015 12:15 AM  

Stop telling Ray to man up and marry those sluts. We're all doomed and it all sucks and you're all losers for trying... um.... to not lose.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 20, 2015 1:15 AM  

109. Rhys O'Reilly
"probably because Americans can't spell"

Just out of curiosity, do y'all speak English down there in Oz?

Blogger byronfrombyron June 20, 2015 5:17 PM  

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the OTHER way the boycott might succeed. That is, IF the SJW crowd has the scratch and wherewithal to become the only source of income for Tor. Then, they have little to no budget for SFF left, and the REST OF THE INDUSTRY starts to rely on conservatives and libertarians for readership, after all, the SJWs all read only Tor. The rest of the industry then decides to start leaning more to the right, not just tolerating it. After all, eventually people follow the money. Especially businessmen.

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