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Saturday, June 13, 2015

Unequally gifted

It's a real mystery. What a shame that the teachers in Sarasota and Manatee Counties are so racist:
Only one in 50 black students and one in 15 Hispanic students are identified as gifted, compared with about one in seven white students. Overall, Sarasota County has the fourth-lowest rate of black students identified as gifted in the state, behind the less populated Martin, St. Johns and Wakulla counties.

The picture is similar in Manatee County, where about one in 12 white students are singled out as gifted, compared with one of every 42 black students and one in 32 Hispanic students.
Perhaps they should consider taking action to affirm that black students and Hispanic students are every bit as gifted as white students. Surely assigning more black and Hispanic students to the gifted courses will prove that those students are every bit as capable of excelling in those courses as the white students who test into them.

I mean, there can't possibly be any other explanation than teacher racism for this otherwise inexplicable racial gap.

Wait, I have a better idea! Why not quiz the gifted white students to determine how many of them are transracial. After all, we know that 10 percent of all people are transracial, so correcting for transrace should go a long way towards addressing this dreadful inequality.

Labels:

118 Comments:

Anonymous Orville June 13, 2015 2:10 PM  

Ha! This was on the radio in KC yesterday in the context of the "transblack" NAACP worker. A caller pointing out that the popular local magnet school had to fill their black quota (KC propper is nearly 50% black), before filling the white spots, but in a class of over 400, only 12 were really white, the other white openings were filled with the transracials who checked the "white" box this time around for their convenience.

Blogger Jim June 13, 2015 2:24 PM  

After all, we know that 10 percent of all people are transracial, so correcting for transrace should go a long way towards addressing this dreadful inequality.
10% is the lowend. Mr. Elfwick has agreed to redo his study, asking only two people (himself and one other) if they are wrongskin. So, it could be 50%, or maybe even 100%.

But then comes the question of how many of those have a wrongskin indentity that is also wrongskin. Would it be fair to include white students who feel they are black students that feel they are white?

Blogger Student in Blue June 13, 2015 2:25 PM  

After all, we know that 10 percent of all people are transracial, so correcting for transrace should go a long way towards addressing this dreadful inequality.

Just a heads-up, but initial findings from the top researcher in this field suggests that the number may climb as high as 50%(!)

https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick/status/609310024196857856

Blogger Daniel June 13, 2015 2:28 PM  

Even easier, in addition to recategorizing 1.2 out of 12 white kids, also simply assume that 4 black kids out of 42 and 3 Hispanics out of 32 are Wrongskin whites, and you will watch that gap shrink toward zero.

Blogger SamuraiJack June 13, 2015 2:29 PM  

As an Apache black white Hispanic of Vietnamese descent, I find the study racist to parts of my heritage. However, the white part of me is satisfied.

Anonymous cheddarman June 13, 2015 2:30 PM  

Speaking of transracial, there is a hillarious story breaking about a white woman who is president of the NAACP in Portland Oregon and a minority member of a police oversight board. She claims that she is multiracial, but her parents outed her as totally european, with maybe a sprinkling of native american, and released pictures of her as a blonde haired blue eyed child and adolescent.

Blogger Rantor June 13, 2015 2:33 PM  

Going back 35 years and thinking about my G&T class... Hmm. No minority kids, well except for 1 Jewish kid, and an Orthodox Greek girl. There was a guy who later turned out to be gay, he died of either drugs or AIDS in New York in his 30s. He was Anglo-Saxon though. Hmmm. Rampant racism in AZ? I guess the liberal NEA dues paying teachers were keeping the Mexican-American, African-American, and Native-American kids out of the G&T program.

The liberal teachers did get rid of corporal punishment though... Of course violence increased once that happened. But that wasn't the teacher's fault, right? They were trying to reduce violence and it is the thought that counts. Now they just call the cops and the kids get arrested, which is way better for them than having an assistant principal swat their ass with a wooden paddle, according to the liberal teachers union at least.

Anonymous Ostar June 13, 2015 2:37 PM  

Well, obviously Math is racist. Instead of using numbers, we must use Feelings. Just allow enough of every race into the Gifted program until we feel right about it.

Anonymous Discard June 13, 2015 2:57 PM  

If you click on the link, the picture is of a Hispanic girl who is unmistakably White.

Anonymous Discard June 13, 2015 3:03 PM  

If one out of every seven White kids are gifted, the standard for giftedness has fallen a lot, presumably in response to the demands of their midwitted parents.

Anonymous Ridip June 13, 2015 3:14 PM  

This is no shock. In the school district where I grew up, which was primarily run by black teachers and administrators, blacks students outnumbered whites ones by 17:1, and yet significantly less than a third of the students in the gifted classes were black. I am being kind. The highest participation I recall was 6 students in a science class of 25-30 some students.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera June 13, 2015 3:14 PM  

Well, obviously Math is racist. Instead of using numbers, we must use Feelings. Just allow enough of every race into the Gifted program until we feel right about it.

Or just change the gifted program so there's no math required! Easy.

There are lots of intelligences, like emotional intelligence and crafts and fingerpainting.

Blogger buwaya puti June 13, 2015 3:31 PM  

I wonder what the Asian rate of G&T is.
Something shocking I expect.

Anonymous Difster VFM #109 June 13, 2015 3:38 PM  

Cheddarman, you're a little late to the party. That's where the whole #wrongskin thing came from. Please rewind to yesterday morning and start over.

Anonymous grey enlightenment June 13, 2015 3:39 PM  

The irony is the left , by attacking/discrediting IQ and the SAT, are hurting the people they are trying to help.By neglecting the best and the brightest, the left would prefer a world where everyone is equal, even if it makes society worse-off. They want equal outcomes, not equal opportunity. Liberalism is at the root of every problem in society.

Blogger IM2L844 June 13, 2015 3:39 PM  

If the transcapable self-identify as gifted, who are you to disagree? Ability is a social construct.

Anonymous Discard June 13, 2015 3:44 PM  

grey enlightenment: The left is not trying to help the Darks, they're trying to harm healthy Whites. Assuredly, they believe in IQ when it puts them on top.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 13, 2015 3:46 PM  

If one out of every seven White kids are gifted, the standard for giftedness has fallen a lot

That's what I was thinking, though we didn't have gifted programs at all when/where I was a kid. I'd say there were at least 4 kids in my grade school class of 25 or so (all-white) who could have benefited from being on an accelerated track. There still would have been a large range between us, though, so even then we'd have been best off working solo.

But it wouldn't be surprising if they've tried to dumb down the requirements, both because so many parents think their kids are gifted, and to try to help some NAMs make the cut. But as Steve Sailer has pointed out many times, the only mental test that will give you racially balanced results is a test so hard that no one passes or so easy that everyone passes. Everywhere in between you're going to get what they always get.

I wouldn't be surprised to look at the IQ bell curves and find that the 86th percentile (1-of-7) on the white curve is near the 98th percentile (1-of-50) on the black curve.

Blogger Danby June 13, 2015 3:46 PM  

Liberalism is at the root of every problem in society.

I would say rather that Liberalism excuses, exacerbates and encourages every problem in society.

Anonymous grey enlightenment June 13, 2015 3:47 PM  

If one out of every seven White kids are gifted, the standard for giftedness has fallen a lot, presumably in response to the demands of their midwitted parents.

If the threshold for giftedness is an IQ of 120, that should be about 1/20.

Anonymous Rolf June 13, 2015 3:48 PM  

But what do you do with the people that self-identify as gifted? I mean, it would be unfair to leave the snowflakes of indeterminate color out of a gifted-but-of-immeasurable-ability from advanced classes, would it not?

Yeah, we really need a sarcasm / satire font.

Blogger napari June 13, 2015 3:52 PM  

15.
"grey enlightenment: The left is not trying to help the Darks, they're trying to harm healthy Whites. Assuredly, they believe in IQ when it puts them on top."

Very true words indeed! It is a part of the leftists opaque way of going about their business. If the left is pushing a false narrative such as racist they make it sound as if they are the minorities best friend but in truth the left could care less is minorities sink or swim.

Anonymous grey enlightenment June 13, 2015 3:55 PM  

grey enlightenment: The left is not trying to help the Darks, they're trying to harm healthy Whites. Assuredly, they believe in IQ when it puts them on top.

It would seem the left believes in survival of the un-fittest, Darwinism in reverse . That's why the left was up in arms over the abortion-crime studies . if aborting babies of rich, white ppl reduced crime, the left would probably be ecstatic

Blogger Tom Kratman June 13, 2015 4:00 PM  

"I would say rather that Liberalism excuses, exacerbates and encourages every problem in society."

Yes, progs have the reverse Midas touch, where everything they grasp turns to shit, but some societal problems liberalism originates - maybe better said, "invents" - all on its own.

Blogger Dexter June 13, 2015 4:03 PM  

But what do you do with the people that self-identify as gifted?

"I was born into the wrong standard deviation. I know I am at least two standard deviations smarter than the test says."

#WrongSD

Anyway, there's more of a problem with kids whose parents identify them as gifted.

"The test just didn't reveal Timmy's true giftedness! He's not a good test taker!"

Blogger Joshua Sinistar June 13, 2015 4:16 PM  

This is totally unacceptable! Who says that gifted programs have to be based on academic standards? Since when do we have standards at all anymore. They should simply find other ways that define giftedness, like washing your hair and making baskets. After all, public school isn't about education, its about being gay and worshipping Satan now. We have to dispense with this racist notion of school being about education and knowledge, that's so Western and reality-based. It discriminates on our new citizen voters from the Stone Age that come for Government Cheese for past discrimination by that Racist Darwin, the evil White cisgendered patriarchal bastard!

Blogger njartist June 13, 2015 4:16 PM  

OT: Side by side comparisons of the TPA bill as it is being changed:

And an excellent interpretation of it.

Anonymous T June 13, 2015 4:17 PM  

Elfwick's strategy is so genius that half of the SJWs can't tell if he's real or not, but they end up having to take him seriously because otherwise they'd have to admit their principles are wrong.

Then they get into arguments with the black people who don't think race is a 'social construct'...and the leftist infighting begins.

That's the brilliance of all this. The left is used to getting to choose which definition it uses, whether race is innate or a social construct, and being forced to defend both at the same time is devastating.

They're like a deer in headlights on twitter. They know the truck is coming, but they just...can't...move.

Blogger Danby June 13, 2015 4:20 PM  

@Tom
but some societal problems liberalism originates - maybe better said, "invents" - all on its own.

No, I think envy, covetousness, dishonesty, self-justification, unwarranted self-regard, perversion and hatred of one's father have been around a lot longer than Liberalism.

Anonymous George of the Jungle June 13, 2015 4:20 PM  

The ultimate solution for all blacks is not to have them in schools at all, as they are trying to learn the white man's idea of knowledge, and that be raciss and all...

So at the proper age just award them a diploma. Do this for high school and again for college. Then of course they shouldn't have to actually enter a white man's idea of a meritocratic society and try to work at a real job, just put them on the payroll of any huge company in bed with the government, tell them they don't actually have to come to work, and send them a paycheck each month.

I think this will effectively end all racial problems having to do with blacks. We simply pay them to stay at home and keep completely away from us.

Anonymous Rolf June 13, 2015 4:22 PM  

23. Tell me about it. I'm a teacher. It's not been too bad this year, but boy howdy, there are some parents out there that are utterly delusional about their child's real capabilities.

I was in a meeting with two moms over a final project grade their sons had received. To be honest, it was so poorly done it would have failed if submitted as a rough draft, but they were incensed that their kids should have done better than they did, after "all the work they'd done on it." I sort of forced them to cut to the chase - I said the real reason they were there was that the (very generous) D they earned on it meant the boys both failed bio, and what they really wanted was for me to raise the grade on the project enough to get them a passing grade for the course. I read a paragraph to them of scrambled grammar, spelling and usage errors, and word salad, identified a dozen factual misstatements, and recounted all the prodding I'd done to get them even that much done. They sounded appalled but could not deny the evidence before them. When I said the rest of the kid's scores were so low I'd have to give the cringingly awful report a B+ grade to get them to pass, they realized it was hopeless. There was no way they could claim it was even a C+ report with a straight face. They deflated right there in front of me as I continued to list the deficiencies of the paper. I mean, a bioethics report on assisted suicide that doesn't even mention Dr. Kevorkian? This was about 2009, when he'd been in the news a lot recently. It may have been the first time a teacher ever told them the truth about their kids - nice and polite enough to chat with casually, but unarguably on the dull side of normal, with near-zero work ethic, no organizational skills, and serious honesty challenges. Yet the mom's talked about how they had tried to get them into more challenging courses to keep them from getting bored. Yeah, right, that's the problem. Suuuuure it is.

I was polite and delicate enough in how I spelled it out for them, but there bearer of bad news is never going to be well-liked.

Anonymous bill June 13, 2015 4:34 PM  

"If one out of every seven White kids are gifted, the standard for giftedness has fallen a lot"

I believe that the way it works is that they get extra money from the gov't for each pupil in the gifted program, so there is an incentive to lower the standards for the money.

Anonymous fish June 13, 2015 4:34 PM  

I think this will effectively end all racial problems having to do with blacks. We simply pay them to stay at home and keep completely away from us.

Welfare, Earned Income Tax Credit, EBT, S-CHIP, MediCal, Section 8 vouchers...all already out there. Why saddle private industry, as screwed up as it already is trying to keep pace with the various edicts put forth by gubmint with more?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar June 13, 2015 4:36 PM  

George, what jungle do you live in? In my urban jungle we already have welfare that does exactly what you suggest without the need for any talk of "work". Don't you know "work" is the only four letter word blacks and liberals find offensive?

Anonymous cheddarman vile faceless minion 0187 June 13, 2015 4:43 PM  

Dister, fellow Vile Faceless Minion, I know about the party yesterday...i was trying to go for round 2 of the wrongskin party...did not remember the portland oregon feaux-black woman as part of the discussion, maybe i missed it

Anonymous Jonathan June 13, 2015 4:45 PM  

I saw a story on a Chicago public television news show a while back about a suburban school that remedied the lack of minority students in AP courses by enrolling all freshman students in honors level classes.

The story did mention that a group of parents and students argued that this just watered down the honors courses, effectively making them standard level courses.

There's an article about it here

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #368 June 13, 2015 4:49 PM  

I was in the gifted program. My IQ test score was so high that my parents refused to tell me what it was for many years, but it was high enough that I found most of the work in the program to be easy.

There was only 1 black kid in it, but I would say he earned his spot.

Blogger VD June 13, 2015 4:49 PM  

Speaking of transracial, there is a hillarious story breaking about a white woman who is president of the NAACP in Portland Oregon and a minority member of a police oversight board.

As a general rule, don't tell me about stories that are all over the Internet. I know. So does nearly everyone else. Tell me about things that are NOT on the Internet yet.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 13, 2015 5:03 PM  

I wouldn't be surprised to look at the IQ bell curves and find that the 86th percentile (1-of-7) on the white curve is near the 98th percentile (1-of-50) on the black curve.

A bit of mental arithmetic suggests you're right.  86th %ile is about 1 stdv, or White IQ of 115.  98th %ile is about 2 stdv, or Black IQ of about 112.

If the threshold for giftedness is an IQ of 120, that should be about 1/20.

That is true.  And there is another entire cohort upwards of 135 that is ill-served by programs aimed at IQ of 120.  These have no way of being properly educated in public schools.  Shouldn't the intelligent poor kid have the same opportunity as the intelligent rich kid?

we really need a sarcasm / satire font.

I suggest Papyrus; Comic Sans is already a cliché.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster June 13, 2015 5:06 PM  

"They're like a deer in headlights on twitter. They know the truck is coming, but they just...can't...move."

Yes. The SJWs have met the enemy... and it is them.

Their whole ideology is based around demanding special privileges for special interest groups, but when anyone can just claim to be a member of that group and shout oppression when an SJW says they're not, that whole ploy falls apart. Thanks to 'trans rights', we can all be black lesbians now.

Anonymous George of the Jungle June 13, 2015 5:07 PM  

I think you don't quite understand... the key is to not just give them the money, but to also give them the awards, including good grades, diplomas, job titles, merit increases, promotions, etc, etc., but without them having to show up or do anything at all.

White society will thus finally acknowledge the black version of meritocracy.

Anonymous George of the Jungle June 13, 2015 5:20 PM  

...and regarding big business in bed with the government? They've already made their corporatist pact with the devil, so any further matters like putting non-performing personnel on their payroll is simply a minor detail.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 13, 2015 5:25 PM  

Are you certain that those are every problem, Danby?

Anonymous Heaviside June 13, 2015 5:29 PM  

>Where are the minority gifted students in Sarasota and Manatee?

Chucking spears in Meinong's jungle.

Anonymous dr kill June 13, 2015 5:32 PM  

As a veteran of the Dade County Public Schools, a girl and three boys, 2001 to 2007, I can clear some of the mist surrounding giftedness. Very briefly, in education theory, giftedness is a quality not strictly related to IQ. In the Dade County Public Schools, we and other White parents used giftedness to escape the regular classes (96% Black) and enter the magnet system ( 20% Black). If your kid didn't test in with the District examiner, there were many private firms that would be certain to show results, for a fee, that your special snowflake was indeed gifted, and had been tested by the district on a bad day. Since most Black and Brown parents don't give a shit about the racial makeup of a class room I feel quite certain that the giftedness stats of any Florida Public School District are incorrect. But that's the way they do it here to try and keep White kids in the system.

Blogger ray June 13, 2015 5:47 PM  

The Final Solution has been implemented these many decades running. De-gift the white students, especially Those Privileged White Males, and super-gift those with lesser talent, drive, and merit. This must be done in concert with a national pogrom against males, particularly the PWMs. Elevate your daughters to 'valedictorian' by holding down Somebody Else's Sons, beginning in grade school. Etc. Then call this mass dispossession and degradation-propaganda equality and progress and protecting the victims.

This strategy, although undeniably successful in the cesspool of politics, has been a disaster for the nation. But that's of little concern when Me and My Identity Group stand to gain!

America could only have pulled this bullshit, and survived, by feeding off the intellectual, creative, ethical, and economic silos stored up prior to installation of the Identity Inquisition in the Seventies.

Not to fear, however. Because there is SO much more yet to be done! lol

Oh and p.s., Roosh is a Douche. Silencing those who disagree with you is the way of the coward. Be sure to include that on your World Tour. :O)

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 13, 2015 5:51 PM  

But what do you do with the people that self-identify as gifted?
Bad news its not sarcasm.1 in 50 Asian males scores a perfect math SAT(at least since they started removing questions no non Asian minorities get right. Sweden has found a way to get smart minorities let them self ID, I have decided to self identify as a Professor Doctor Rocket Surgeon
.http://www.europeanguardian.com/81-uncategorised/immigration/340-immigrants-in-sweden-are-allowed-to-self-determine-their-education-level

Blogger maniacprovost June 13, 2015 5:54 PM  

It's not that whites are smarter or more gifted. The schools are just extremely biased and irrational- the teachers and administrators pick more attractive children and put them into gifted classes, because bias.

Ergo, white children are more attractive. QED.

Blogger Groot June 13, 2015 5:58 PM  

If diversity of input (including intelligence, effort, etc.) leads to diversity of outcome, to most that sounds like justice. That's where the need for Social Justice comes in. Social Justice is to justice what Junk Science is to science, or Political Correctness to correctness, or Crony Capitalism is to capitalism. It's not necessarily the opposite, but it's at least twisted or broken.

You need to realize that equality (the same) and diversity (different) are opposites, but have their benefits in the proper place. I prefer equality of opportunity with diversity of input and output. No Social Justice needed.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 13, 2015 6:02 PM  

Social Justice is to justice what Junk Science is to science

"Social" is a modifier meaning "not".  It's a pity that we don't have such a simple rule of thumb for "racial".

Blogger beerme #0183 June 13, 2015 6:08 PM  

After all, we know that 10 percent of all people are transracial, so correcting for transrace should go a long way towards addressing this dreadful inequality.

I see a fight between transrace blacks and intolerant cisrace blacks of who actually constitutes the "talented tenth". Those transrace blacks are going to also steal a lot of "first black" moments from those intolerant cisrace blacks.

/sarc

Blogger napari June 13, 2015 6:08 PM  

Maybe I got it on a good day and I just got lucky but Castalia House = lightning fassst customer service!!!

A VERY BIG TY!!!

Anonymous BGS June 13, 2015 6:15 PM  

“In one century we went from teaching Latin and Greek in high school to offering remedial English in college.” – Joseph Sobran

10% is the lowend. Mr. Elfwick has agreed to redo his study, asking only two people (himself and one other)
It turns out by a quick poll the US is 100% gay and 50% redhead.

Anonymous grey enlightenment June 13, 2015 6:31 PM  

Yes. The SJWs have met the enemy... and it is them.

The enemy is reality...economic reality, biological reality

Anonymous Rusty Fife June 13, 2015 6:37 PM  

My kid's school system considers 'gifted' to be a special needs program.

If you will recall VD's link a while back to the idea that greater than 2SD makes you incomprehensible; 115 IQ to 85IQ identifies those students whom can inter-communicate.

It then makes sense to segregate the 116+ and 84- IQs out of the normal teaching environment.

Unfortunately, I wish they'd IQ test the GT teachers also; they really have a hard time understanding the course load for middle school AP classes.

Blogger pyrrhus June 13, 2015 6:40 PM  

Even at those numbers, the black students are getting preferential treatment....should be more like 1 in 72, based on average IQ.

Anonymous DT June 13, 2015 6:50 PM  

Student in Blue - Just a heads-up, but initial findings from the top researcher in this field suggests that the number may climb as high as 50%(!)

The science is settled. And anyone who disagrees is a denier.

Difster VFM #109 - Cheddarman, you're a little late to the party. That's where the whole #wrongskin thing came from. Please rewind to yesterday morning and start over.

Please check your time privilege. Perhaps Cheddarman felt like yesterday was really last week. Maybe today he feels like it's tomorrow, and he's ahead of you. He doesn't need to start over. You need to accept his time preference you cis temporal being.

grey enlightenment - By neglecting the best and the brightest, the left would prefer a world where everyone is equal, even if it makes society worse-off.

Definition of envy. They would much rather live in a world where everyone suffers the same then live in a world where they do well but other people do better.

Blogger Dexter June 13, 2015 7:16 PM  

The ultimate solution for all blacks is not to have them in schools at all, as they are trying to learn the white man's idea of knowledge, and that be raciss and all...

So at the proper age just award them a diploma.


And the diploma will say,

"Greetings from the President of the United States. You are hereby notified that you have been selected for immediate military service..."

Anonymous Matt June 13, 2015 7:21 PM  

Here's a hilarious bit of math you can verify in Excel if you want.

1. If 1/7 of white students are gifted, then "gifted" is 1.067 standard deviations above the white mean.
2. If black students are, on average, one standard deviation below the white mean, then "gifted" is 2.067 standard deviations above the black mean.
3. The proportion of the bell curve above 2.067 standard deviations is 0.0193.
4. Or expressed as a fraction - 1 in 52.

In other words, knowing literally nothing other than the white pass rate and the assumption that The Gap is 1 standard deviation (as it basically always is) , we were able to predict the black pass rate precisely.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 13, 2015 7:40 PM  

"Greetings from the President of the United States. You are hereby notified that you have been selected for immediate military service..."

Remarkably few jobs in the armed forces for the stupid, and none for the illiterate.

Anonymous Teenage Jail June 13, 2015 7:57 PM  

@Matt

In other words, knowing literally nothing other than the white pass rate and the assumption that The Gap is 1 standard deviation (as it basically always is) , we were able to predict the black pass rate precisely.

I noticed that, though it doesn't work for the Manatee County numbers (the difference between 1 in 12 and 1 in 42 corresponds to a difference of .6 standard deviations between whites and blacks).

Anyway, we don't know how these programs are selecting students.

Anonymous Matt June 13, 2015 8:13 PM  

Yeah should be about 1 in 116, if 1/12 of white students are gifted. Could be the gap is smaller, could be that the socioeconomic demographics of that county select for people born to richer (and correlating higher IQ) parents of all races, could be someone goosing the statistics. Second option would be my guess.

Blogger WarKicker June 13, 2015 8:17 PM  

"If one out of every seven White kids are gifted, the standard for giftedness has fallen a lot"

I grew up in Manatee County and attended a school of 280 children with 8 identified as gifted (I remember having to take the Standford- Binet test). We were bussed once a week to a facility with kids from two other similar size schools for about three hours a week. I don' recall more than an average size classroom full of students (about 25-30). That was 37 years ago.

Blogger Dexter June 13, 2015 8:37 PM  

@Tom,

We'll put you in charge of training them, and I'm sure they'll shape right up.

And at least they wouldn't cause the "stupid and energetic" problem. =)


Blogger Tom Kratman June 13, 2015 8:59 PM  

Probably not, Dex. All the really important training - important because a) an armed service can't give it and b) it is the difference between a good army and a waste of money and time - the prospective soldier takes in more or less with mother's milk. If it hasn't happened long before he or she reports to the colors, it is most unlikely ever to happen.

Blogger bw June 13, 2015 9:28 PM  

and Wakulla counties

Ha! My boy is head FB coach at the County HS. Gotta have you some brothers if ya gonna compete, ya know, equality and all. Typical mix of poor Blue Gums and Redneck Saltist Whites (near the coast).

Blogger pdwalker June 13, 2015 9:48 PM  

You all laugh and joke now, but how long before parody become "reality"?

Blogger maniacprovost June 13, 2015 10:13 PM  

how long before parody become "reality"?

About 25 years ago.

Anonymous Rolf June 13, 2015 10:54 PM  

*Sigh* Just re-read my post at #31. Gads. I am terrible at proof-reading my own work before I hit [Publish]. Hopefully you could figure out what I meant, in spite of how I said it.

Blogger Jourdan June 13, 2015 11:34 PM  

I don't know Mr. Kratman. I watched a U.S. Navy-produced documentary last night about what recruits can expect at Great Lakes for boot, wanted my sons to see it and wanted to compare/contrast with my experience there way back in 1983.

Wow.

There was a lot of obvious stupidity on display. The petty officers were almost all universally knuckle-draggers, which wasn't my recollection. They were almost all non-white as well.

Finally, they interviewed this captain (colonel, you know the drill) and my youngest son said, "Well, he seems to know standard English."

It was that bad.

Blogger Jourdan June 13, 2015 11:36 PM  

Other highlights of Navy documentary: 30 something men in charge of 18 something women; men get traditional buzzcuts while women get styling; recruit men and women sleeping in the same compartment at Receiving Division; even more Filipino chiefs than I remember, which is saying something; recruits now march in tennis shoes, not boots with leggings. It was just amazing.

Blogger Jourdan June 13, 2015 11:49 PM  

Well, ahem, shit. Back on topic. Two observations:

1) The ability of people to completely ignore massive, blindingly obvious evidence right in front of them demonstrates the power of ideology; and

2) Working from that, we will not win by convincing people their ideology is wrong by appeals to evidence.

Blogger Groot June 13, 2015 11:57 PM  

@69. Rolf:
I am Groot.

Blogger toadbile June 13, 2015 11:59 PM  

So let a quarter of the white kids be labeled as black kids and the "problem" will go away. They don't even have to self-identify because minors have no rights and we will just assign new racial identities to them.

Likewise, we can simply order a quarter of the sailors on naval vessels to "identify as women" for the duration of their enlistment and achieve the feminist goals of chicks in combat. Race and sex are what we say they are.


Blogger Patrikbc-EgyptianPrincess#wrongskin June 14, 2015 12:15 AM  

This isn't a shock after all, everyone knows that Vox is a European Neo Nazi who identifies as a Native American #wrongscalp

Anonymous Eric the Red June 14, 2015 1:02 AM  

How did we lose? Entryism... it all sounded so reasonable, just give a little here and there, and the opposition would be satisfied. Of course, only after they gained power did we realize that they would never be satisfied with anything less than absolute control.

How can we win? It will not be by changing hearts and minds. We know already that the oppositions' can't be changed. And what of the great masses of people? What if we assume that they are ideologically neutral, and are thus simply going-along-to-get-along by keeping a low profile? If that's true, then they will not be won over to our side by the logic of our position nor the stupidity of the oppositions' ideology. How can they, when they're afraid? The opposition holds the power, and can deal out punishment whenever they like, to whomever they want. Even if the great unwashed masses finally get fed up with tyrannical behavior on the part of their masters, the only thing left to do at that point is a revolution, 99% of which are violent. Minor inroads such as the Hugo's are fine, but they are indeed minor.

So ultimately we have no choice.

Blogger Cuca Culpa June 14, 2015 1:18 AM  

"Social" is a modifier meaning "not".

A quick search tells me

The word "Social" derives from the Latin word socii ("allies").

So your allies, also called a gang or a/the mob.

Mob justice. Mob media. Mob democracy (possibly redundant)...

Blogger Tom Kratman June 14, 2015 2:46 AM  

Can't really address that, Jourdan, except a) to note that everyone seems fairly stupid in BCT, b) naval is naval, not military, c) it might be a hit piece.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 14, 2015 3:42 AM  

Race is just a social construct so I always put "Native American / Eskimo" on my student aid forms and racial preference hiring forms. After all the forms read "What do you self identify as" and whenever I went to fill out those forms I felt full on Lakota.

While race may be a social construct the extra funds and instant acceptance was very real and real world measurable. My bank account certainly wasn't a social construct and the instant student aid funds that appeared *without* the previous hassle when I stupidly checked "White Caucasian" were very very real.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 14, 2015 5:44 AM  

78. Mr. Kratman, the Naval Academy really has gone to hell. They may be officers, but they're not gentlemen.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 6:43 AM  

Those two "colored" divisions did pretty well in WW2.

Anonymous Luke June 14, 2015 8:46 AM  

Re the Naval Academy (known in the USMC as "Canoe U"):
I understand that it doesn't even teach use of the sextant any more. let alone much of anything about how to offensively board another ship, or to repel boarders attempting to do that to your ship. Anyone want to confirm or deny these?

Anonymous Luke June 14, 2015 9:00 AM  

60. Tom Kratman June 13, 2015 7:40 PM

"Greetings from the President of the United States. You are hereby notified that you have been selected for immediate military service..."

"Remarkably few jobs in the armed forces for the stupid, and none for the illiterate."

Surely someone has to move around in the open to draw fire from hidden enemy guns to get them spotted, hurriedly clear minefields under heavy fire, etc. Working legs and legs/arms/hands are all those tasks would seem to require, not smarts.

Anonymous BGS June 14, 2015 10:32 AM  

"Those two "colored" divisions did pretty well in WW2."

Are you only counting mutiny and raping?
"Historian Götz Aly, the author of "Hitler's Beneficiaries", accused black Allied soldiers of the systematic rape of German women during World War Two. He also dismissed their share of defeating Nazi Germany on the grounds that they were forced to fight. He compared the acts of Britain and France's black soldiers to the mass rapes by the Russian Red Army soldiers in eastern Germany. "Every town in southwest Germany could tell stories of rape by black soldiers, no different to the Russian [practice of systematic rape]." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6140002/Mahatma-Gandhi-was-one-of-Nazis-greatest-friends-German-historian-claims.html

It will not be by changing hearts and minds. We know already that the oppositions' can't be changed.

If after meeting blacks in real life they still have not changed their hearts and minds the only way to do it is by putting holes in them.

Blogger Jourdan June 14, 2015 10:37 AM  

Recently in Annapolis I discovered by accident that the Naval Academy does have a very nice looking mosque, however.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 11:19 AM  

Are you only counting mutiny and raping?

That was mainly French colonial black troops who were stationed in Germany after the war. The two US black divisions served in Italy.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 11:20 AM  

(One in Italy, one in the Pacific)

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 11:22 AM  

And cry me a river about the German civilians after WW2. The Wehrmacht looted, raped, plundered, and slaughtered its way across Europe. Then it lost - and what goes around, comes around, bitches.

Blogger Bard June 14, 2015 12:05 PM  

"As a general rule, don't tell me about stories that are all over the Internet. I know. So does nearly everyone else. Tell me about things that are NOT on the Internet yet."

We received our first official army email Thursday detailing how to interact with our transgender civilian employees. Had some stats in it about the number of transgender military people so I am certain it is just prep for the full blown inclusion of them on active duty. Real ideas how to black knight the shit out of this will be greatly appreciated. I retire in two years and would love to make a statement on the way out.

Anonymous Discard June 14, 2015 12:27 PM  

Dexter 81: It's no surprise that enough Blacks could be enlisted to form a couple acceptable infantry divisions. We probably all know some decent and capable Blacks. Just not very many.

Keep in mind also that it is now the norm to greatly exaggerate the achievements of non-Whites, like the 442 RCT. Those two Black divisions could have been very mediocre, but nobody with a job to keep would say it.

Anonymous Discard June 14, 2015 12:32 PM  

Luke 82: I understand that the academies now offer degrees in history and the like, rather than the once mandatory engineering degrees. I suppose it makes it easier for the womyn to graduate. That is decline.

Anonymous Bad4Good June 14, 2015 2:48 PM  

Don't know if this is off topic, yet it seems like a modern day example of this kind of cultural dviersh*tty in action, skip to the 2 minute mark if you like:

Woman Contronts Militants

Anonymous Bad4Good June 14, 2015 2:50 PM  

Don't know if this is off topic, yet it seems like a modern day example of this kind of cultural dviersh*tty in action, skip to the 2 minute mark to see where the fireworks start:
Apologies, maybe this link will work:

Woman Contronts Militants

Blogger Tom Kratman June 14, 2015 5:00 PM  

"Surely someone has to move around in the open to draw fire from hidden enemy guns to get them spotted, hurriedly clear minefields under heavy fire, etc. Working legs and legs/arms/hands are all those tasks would seem to require, not smarts."

No.

Anonymous Heaviside June 14, 2015 6:39 PM  

>Then it lost - and what goes around, comes around, bitches.

Speaking as a resident of a major American city, that really doesn't engender much optimism in me.

It's a little telling that we don't have a word that captures the original meaning of "hubris".

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 9:47 PM  

It's a little telling that we don't have a word that captures the original meaning of "hubris".

French blacks and Soviet Central Asian troops turned loose on the women of the Master Race is a fine example of "nemesis".

As Bricktop put it - "A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2015 9:49 PM  

We received our first official army email Thursday detailing how to interact with our transgender civilian employees.

Good grief, how many of those are there supposed to be? What are the actual chances you'll meet one?

Blogger Barf Barfolo June 14, 2015 10:47 PM  



It's a little telling that we don't have a word that captures the original meaning of "hubris".

We have several, including "liberal", "progressive", and "selfie" ...

Anonymous Friend of Bill June 14, 2015 11:37 PM  

"It's not that whites are smarter or more gifted."

Nope, sorry, they are. I come from Earth. Where are you from?

Blogger SciVo June 14, 2015 11:56 PM  

@ George of the Jungle: "I think this will effectively end all racial problems having to do with blacks. We simply pay them to stay at home and keep completely away from us."

Uh huh. Sure. And if once you have paid him the Danegeld, it's totes easy to get rid of the Dane. Right?

Blogger Feather Blade June 15, 2015 1:24 AM  

To be honest, it was so poorly done it would have failed if submitted as a rough draft, but they were incensed that their kids should have done better than they did, after "all the work they'd done on it."

I hear this all the time, usually after someone has submitted a crap model with a project. "I worked so hard on this." "It took me so long to put this together."

....but it fits perfectly with the Marxist labor theory of value. If the value of a product is directly proportional to the amount of time and labor spent on it, then, even if the end product fails to meet every single one of the criteria given, it is still worth some amount of credit, at least in the mind of the person proffering the excuse.

Anonymous Luke June 15, 2015 7:27 AM  

94. Tom Kratman June 14, 2015 5:00 PM

"Surely someone has to move around in the open to draw fire from hidden enemy guns to get them spotted, hurriedly clear minefields under heavy fire, etc. Working legs and legs/arms/hands are all those tasks would seem to require, not smarts."

"No."

If the homies can scream, wave, and shoot wildly into the air in U.S. cities, they can do it in combat zones where enemy gunlayers can see them. If they can knife each other while standing in line for free lunches in 99% minority "schools", they can use knives to find shallowly-buried antipersonnel mines in hot combat zones. (Sure, there'd be plenty of attrition in both MOSs, but there is a huge stockpile of otherwise unneeded homies, and plenty more homies are being made all the time.)

Re discipline concerns, just watch the first 30 minutes of the movie "Enemy At The Gates" to see workable procedures.

Follow me now?

Blogger Tom Kratman June 15, 2015 8:32 AM  

You haven't done any of this, have you, Luke? Okay, lesson 1. To get them there requires that they be armed, clothed, and fed. All of this is expensive in time and money. Indeed, one can go to Harvard for a while for what basic training costs. Given that, there is little economic sense in using them. Moreover, it's been tried before, with McNamara's Project 100,000, which was a complete disaster.

Or you can skip training them, which leads to another problem or series of problems: You can try to lead that kind of armed rabble if you want to and I will applaud your bravery. I will not, however, join you. How do you propose to get them to do anything, once they've strung you up to the nearest still standing lamppost?

Enemy at the Gates...well, you can save money and effort by just machine gunning them right off, rather than wasting food and fuel getting them there. Then, too, those were Russians who believed at least in the legitimacy of defending their country and people, however much they may not have liked the techniques employed. One doubts that will be there to help with your conscripts, here. And, finally, one suspect that the guards would be more useful as actual soldiers than as guards.

Anonymous Luke June 15, 2015 11:32 AM  

Re training the homies: no need to spend the kind of dough that SEALS and plane commanders get. The Soviet penal battalions had the better model IMO (just the training battalions if you're feeling softhearted).

Re "haven't done that": Neither of us has served in, let alone commanded, a penal infantry unit, AFAIK about you. That makes us even that way. We've undoubtedly both read Suvorov, Manstein, Hanson, Chittum (well, I have) etc., though, so neither of us is starting from nothing.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 15, 2015 12:29 PM  

No, that's not what I meant. Your failure to grasp the financial and logistic implications, to say nothing of the administrative and moral downsides, of your proposal is what I meant.

Anonymous Friend of Bill June 15, 2015 1:57 PM  

"Your failure to grasp the financial and logistic implications,"

The failure to grasp the financial and logistic implications of all sorts of things, by virtually everybody on this blog, despite the manifest high intelligence of nearly all the commenters, is the thing that perpetually astounds me.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 15, 2015 4:31 PM  

I see it sometimes. I don't see it all the time and I don't think I see it from a majority, nor would one expect to since they're not important to most threads.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 15, 2015 7:42 PM  

I think that what Luke means is that if you imprison people, you have to feed them and clothe them too.  But if you march them at gunpoint into a minefield, you are relieved of much of that burden as well as the risk of recidivism.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 16, 2015 12:07 AM  

NO doubt, but getting them to the minefield is not cost free. If you want them dead, and have the power to make them dead, then kill them; don't waste time and resources.

Anonymous Luke June 16, 2015 1:00 PM  

109. Tom Kratman June 16, 2015 12:07 AM

" NO doubt, but getting them to the minefield is not cost free. If you want them dead, and have the power to make them dead, then kill them; don't waste time and resources."

The Soviets figured out how to make use of their indigestible problem people at a resource profit in combat zones. Do you not think we have people as smart as they did, to figure out how to likewise profitably make use of such incorrigible undesirables about how they did?

Blogger Tom Kratman June 16, 2015 4:21 PM  

They had no choice and had more of x than of y. We have a choice and have more of y than of x. Like I said, don't waste; if you have enemies, kill them if you can. You can kill them graphically, if you like. War is too serious a matter to allow unnecessary wastage in.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 17, 2015 1:24 AM  

War is also fought with information weapons.  Machine-gunning social enemies is one of the things still being used to guilt-trip the German people into auto-genocide.  Marching social enemies into the guns of military enemies can be spun as justice, forcing the social enemies to redeem themselves for their crimes.

Of course, doing this requires having control of the narrative.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 17, 2015 10:23 AM  

That's not especially useful absent a really properly calibrated crystal ball to know if you're going to win the war.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 17, 2015 11:08 PM  

It also gives your side's social problems a chance to desert, join the others and become THEIR social problems.

If they're a heavy enough burden on the other side, this might help win the war.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 2:30 AM  

Has that ever happened that you can think of?

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 18, 2015 10:25 AM  

We know what happened when we went the other way; the USA hasn't had an unequivocal military victory (in the long term) since the Great Society radically increased the blood-sucking ability of the parasites on the American public.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 18, 2015 1:26 PM  

Frankly, I don't see the connection between the two.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 20, 2015 3:08 PM  

The connection is that a society which uses penal battalions to get rid of social liabilities frees up the resources those liabilities require (if only to police them), allowing it to fight more effectively.  It does this without doing things which demoralize its own population.

The Soviets did use penal battalions, and they did win against Germany (with lots of help from us).  Castro didn't kill many of his lunatics and criminals, but he dumped them on the USA when the opportunity presented itself.  The tactic works.

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