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Monday, June 15, 2015

Waco II

It looks like something might be more than a little awry in the investigation of the Waco shootings that took place last month:
Four weeks after the deadly May 17th shooting incident outside a Waco Twin Peaks restaurant, more details have come out concerning the incident, but significant questions still remain about the actions taken by law enforcement and the police’s account of what transpired.

Although the national mainstream media has largely moved on from the Waco story, if critics of the police are correct, the incident represents an unprecedented civil rights violation and media cover-up campaign by the Waco authorities.

Police in Waco still have yet to state how many bikers, if any, were killed by the police, or to explain why the police showed up in force at all prior to the meeting on May 17th.

In a statement on Friday, the police said that of 16 officers that were in the parking lot, only three fired a total of 12 shots.  However, the statement still didn’t clarify how many of the bikers were killed by police. Authorities say they have not recieved final autopsy results that would clarify ballistics....

The Morning News piece quotes friends of Kirschner who praise him as a gentle family man, but also includes a quote from “Lori,” a friend of Kirschner, who echoed some of the rumors swirling as more doubts are raised about the police account of the Twin Peaks incident.

In fact, Lori said, the biker community is rife with reports about witnesses who heard the discharge of lots of high-powered weaponry after a few initial pop-pop sounds of handguns. The reports sounded like they came from “muzzled or suppressed high-powered weapons,” said Lori, though she wasn’t there. The theory is that the heavy fire came from tactical police officers.
I don't believe the police version for one very simple reason: police are usually a) trigger-happy, and b) terrible shots. In one incident in Minneapolis, police fired 41 shots at a man in the skyway - which means absolutely no cover at all - and somehow managed to score zero hits.

The key is probably to be found in the statement "of 16 officers that were in the parking lot". Fine, setting aside one's skepticism that three police opening fire would only pull the trigger an average of four times each, there were a lot more than 16 police officers on the scene who were not in the parking lot. How many shots did the rest of them fire?

Labels:

65 Comments:

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 15, 2015 11:48 AM  

My understanding is that *inexperienced* cops are trigger-happy, not cops in general. But from what I understand, lots of places have huge crops of new cops.

Of course even the FBI says that police officers aren't good shots.

Blogger Jourdan June 15, 2015 11:52 AM  

I don't find the police department's statements even close to credible. It's instructive that the U.S. Govt. feels no need to follow up on this matter as they do so often on others involving heavily militarized police forces involved in mass shootings.

It's almost as if the race of the dead matters to USG more than the rule of law

Blogger Mussorgsky112 June 15, 2015 11:59 AM  

"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied [by the government]"

Blogger Chris Mallory June 15, 2015 12:02 PM  

"My understanding is that *inexperienced* cops are trigger-happy, not cops in general"

Cops of all experience levels routinely empty several magazines . It happens more often than I care to count.

Agingrebel.com has done some good work in tracking down what really happened. Here is his take on what happened: http://www.agingrebel.com/13021

Blogger Tommy Hass June 15, 2015 12:02 PM  

You guys should start paying cops more so that dudes with 105+IQ bother apllying for the job.

Blogger Josh June 15, 2015 12:04 PM  

You guys should start paying cops more so that dudes with 105+IQ bother apllying for the job.

It's worse: some departments reject applicants who score too high on tests.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 15, 2015 12:06 PM  

The conservative treehouse the first week speculated that it was the result of an undercover cop being IDed and ousted with trigger happy cops shooting to keep people from chasing him. There are CCTV cameras pointing in the direction of the event FOIA requests had been sent out that first week.

177 people arrested but 117 had completely clean records you couldn't find that high a percent of clean records if you looked at blacks with security clearances. This had been a yearly gathering to discuss laws related to bikers. It is also likely that since Bath House Barry pissed himself when the bikers took over DC for 9-11 last year that he wanted to strike at the community to scare them away from repeating it. Note that Baltiwhore released over 100 rioters/looters arrested because "equality".

Anonymous Alexander June 15, 2015 12:16 PM  

I don't know - if we're at the point where a militarized police force unhampered by any meaningful enforcement of the constitution and private property rights... then I like the idea of a police force on the left side of the bell curve.

If I must have would-be tyrants, grant that they be stupid.

Blogger pdwalker June 15, 2015 12:27 PM  

the incident represents an unprecedented civil rights violation and media cover-up campaign by the Waco authorities.

Assuming you leave out Ruby Ridge or Waco I

Blogger MachoKing June 15, 2015 12:28 PM  

Unfortunately, the bikers were Caucasian, so no national outrage is coming. #bikerlivesmatter

Blogger Jeff the Baptist June 15, 2015 12:36 PM  

The reports sounded like they came from “muzzled or suppressed high-powered weapons,” said Lori, though she wasn’t there.

What does this mean? In my experience, a fairly small number of people actually know what suppressed rifles sound like. Let alone "muzzled" ones.

Anonymous Earl June 15, 2015 12:37 PM  

Somehow, if bama must react, this will be the fault of Christianity.

Blogger Noah B #120 June 15, 2015 12:40 PM  

Another good reason not to believe the official version of the story: if the cops actually had solid evidence against these guys, we would have been hearing about it non-stop. But the silence is deafening.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 15, 2015 12:51 PM  

dindu nuffin started wearing a badge?

OpenID rufusdog June 15, 2015 12:56 PM  

Hmm, why do we need high IQ police officers, is your average traffic stop equivalent to a calculus problem? We need wise and honorable police not high IQ. Using up the right side of the bell curve on cops would be a massive waste, not to mention punishing for most of those high IQ folks. Being a cop would be equal parts depressing and boring.

I realize (despite the posturing) that most of the Ilk aren’t shooters and really have little clue what they are talking about. It would be a vast waste of time and resources to train your average PD up so that they are highly skilled shooters, most of them will not draw their weapon, much less be involved in a shooting. The training, equipment, and ammunition it would take to maintain an elite fighting force among our PDs would be staggering, not to mention a further militarization of the police.

Those of you who think being involved in a shooting would be easy are deluded. The shooting skill is one thing, the control over one’s emotions, adrenaline, fear, plus the wisdom to know firmly when lethal force is called for, that’s the hard part.

Blogger Brad Andrews June 15, 2015 12:57 PM  

This is something that really disgusts me today. I want to support the police against destructive hordes (see the recent McKinney pool incident), but then police show they are untrustworthy.

Our own community pool had a meeting where we face some of the same challenges as the recent one. Same lack of respect for the property of others on the part of the "youths" and it could easily become a national headline if something blew up.

I suspect we are not as far from an active shooting war as I would prefer. I am sure I am not the only one getting completely fed up with the situation and many feel they have no way to respond, which will likely lead to some going completely past restraint until some semblance of order is restored. You can't have one group completely flaunt the rules forever.

Note that I am not advocating further escalation, I just see it as extremely likely.

Anonymous Anonymous June 15, 2015 12:58 PM  

With regards to "paying cops more", at least in my area the pay at the police department starts at 40k a year for a recruit, and after probation an officer can expect to make 60k a year with overtime.

Even when pay is "low" there are always at least a hundred applicants for every position with the local sheriffs office.

Anonymous BGS June 15, 2015 12:59 PM  

The reports sounded like they came from “muzzled or suppressed high-powered weapons,” said Lori, though she wasn’t there.

You must have missed the part that said "The Waco police press release on Friday confirmed the use of suppressors." Ex-military would recognize it, every military firing range needs a medic on the scene, or at least they used to. You can have a silencer added to a family gun trust which would save transfer fees. If you own a lot of guns you might want to consider a gun trust.

Anonymous Michael Maier June 15, 2015 1:06 PM  

rufusdog June 15, 2015 12:56 PM Hmm, why do we need high IQ police officers, is your average traffic stop equivalent to a calculus problem? We need wise and honorable police not high IQ. Using up the right side of the bell curve on cops would be a massive waste, not to mention punishing for most of those high IQ folks. Being a cop would be equal parts depressing and boring.

I realize (despite the posturing) that most of the Ilk aren’t shooters and really have little clue what they are talking about. It would be a vast waste of time and resources to train your average PD up so that they are highly skilled shooters, most of them will not draw their weapon, much less be involved in a shooting. The training, equipment, and ammunition it would take to maintain an elite fighting force among our PDs would be staggering, not to mention a further militarization of the police.


Yes, it's much better to train them to overreact, spray and pray and hit a few dozen bystanders.

Anonymous notbob June 15, 2015 1:10 PM  

Sorry, a little off topic, but BGS, could you explain the concept of "gun trust" a little more?

Anonymous Gecko June 15, 2015 1:11 PM  

It would be a vast waste of time and resources to train your average PD up so that they are highly skilled shooters

The ilk wants highly skilled police? Where have you been?

Blogger Tommy Hass June 15, 2015 1:12 PM  

"Hmm, why do we need high IQ police officers, is your average traffic stop equivalent to a calculus problem?"

High IQ people are less likely to do ALL kinds of stupid things. Including things like shooting yourself in the foot.

Blogger SirThermite June 15, 2015 1:13 PM  

"I realize (despite the posturing) that most of the Ilk aren’t shooters and really have little clue what they are talking about."

Speak for yourself

Anonymous John Smallberries June 15, 2015 1:17 PM  

Maybe they thought the bikers were chickens?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6ruQcgu9w

OpenID spastic0plastic June 15, 2015 1:26 PM  

They also haven't said how many undercover cops were involved. There is so much funding and law enforcement interest in this area that maybe it's better to ask how many weren't cops or working in a private capacity for the cops.

Anonymous frenchy June 15, 2015 1:26 PM  

@ notbob,

He means a Revocable Living Trust. You use one of the WillMaker programs, put your suppressors, or other Class 3 items on it, and have a Notary sign it. This allows you to bypass much of the ATF Form 4 requirements for buying Class 3 devices (getting an LEO signature, fingerprints, etc.), and also allows you to transfer your suppressors (if you put other people on it) without going through the ATF. Normally, that could take up to six months or more and cost you $200 for each item.

I own several suppressors, and if not for this one Class 3 dealer who told me about using a Revocable Living Trust, I would not have them because the then Fayetteville, NC Sheriff (Cumberland Cty) would not sign off on my forms. The Trust allowed me to bypass him.

Blogger Dan in Tx June 15, 2015 1:30 PM  

This whole thing has actually smelled bad from the get go. From the Police Chief's grandstanding statement that the restaurant was warned weeks in advance and then the management saying that it was the first they'd heard of it to reports trickling out later that the cops were there at the beginning complete in fatigues with their armored vehicle in the parking lot. Not to mention how the hell do you carry AK-47's on a Harley? There's supposedly surveillance video but we haven't seen any of it yet but the rumors are it only shows one biker with a gun and he's not shooting, the only ones shooting are the cops.

Anonymous TLM June 15, 2015 1:43 PM  

This will be whitewashed just like the Boston Scientific rep that was murdered by Las Vegas cops at Costco a few years ago and the Boone Cty, KY sheriff deputy that murdered a girl at a field party last year. I tend to believe that despite all the pseudo tough guy image that LEOs attempt to project, they are really acting out of fear. Society has been feminized considerably since I was young and it's only natural that the days of the old wise masculine cop with a proper temperament for the job has been replaced by some caricature of masculinity that grossly overcompensates for their internal fear with unnecessary aggression and escalation.

Anonymous zen0 June 15, 2015 1:45 PM  

Monday, June 15th: Anniversary of the Magna Carta Libertatum

The Field Where Liberty Was Sown



Blogger dc.sunsets June 15, 2015 1:45 PM  

Google "gun trust." It's a means to simplify ownership of NFA items like suppressors, SBR's and full-auto guns, that's all.

Blogger Doom June 15, 2015 1:50 PM  

I knew that pooch was screwed before I finished reading the first installment of the Liar's Daily on it. Even the writers and editors for the Liar's Daily were hedging their bets, from the start. You know it's bad when the water-holders are shaking in their boots so much that they spill.

Then again, bikers, unlike Christians, those civilians who just want to be peasants, and others, don't take kindly to snot-nosed liars printing bile. Actually, the one nice thing is, some reporters might really get hurt... no matter which side they pick. The cops, there, don't exactly seem overly friendly, and are quite willing to press the issue home as well. Now THAT is a crisis I would hate to see wasted. Or is it one I would want to see wasted? Both... uhrm... depending on some definition clarifications? It's like an academic being thrown into prison with not one, but two, titan pudwuckers who don't like each other. Stuck in teh middle! Yeah. It's gonna hurt. I hope!

Blogger dc.sunsets June 15, 2015 1:54 PM  

Biker gangs today, white-supremacist groups before that, militia groups before that, off-center religious communes before that.

Once a peculiar attribute gets the attention of leviathan's tax-paid monopoly enforcers, in no time they're infiltrated and railroaded straight to jail or the morgue. Guilt, innocence or actual crime are irrelevant. Google Branch Davidian, Randy Weaver, Viper Militia or a host of other examples.

It's all just theater meant to keep cops'/fed's budgets fat.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 15, 2015 1:55 PM  

"Not to mention how the hell do you carry AK-47's on a Harley?"

I've seen bikers carrying rifles to the range on their back in a papoose/bag looking thing slung behind them.

And whenever you read "AK-47" in the MSM it just means some scary lookin' gun, unlikely an actual AK-47, although carrying an actual AK in Texas is legal under many circumstances.

Anonymous Soga June 15, 2015 1:57 PM  

I see American police academies teach the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship curriculum.

It gets worse when you realize these cops are LITERALLY stormtroopers.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) June 15, 2015 1:58 PM  

Sorry, a little off topic, but BGS, could you explain the concept of "gun trust" a little more?
It's a legal entity that owns the guns. It's almost a requirement nowdays for Class III and NFA items.

For example, if an owner of a full auto Thompson takes his neighbor to the range and then takes 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, if he leave the Thompson with his friend, the law has been broken and all sorts of legal misery can follow.

While this may sound unreasonable, having had 1 Federal confidential informant in your local machine gun club lie and get another member thrown in Federal Prison, you realize you can never be to cautious (yes, that is exactly what CI's do).

They run about $500 if you know a gun friendly lawyer, and if set up properly, you can add people to the trust, temporarily. This allows you to add your neighbor to the trust before you go to the range and greatly minimizes your legal risk. Suddenly, loaning a suppressor to your brother becomes legal.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 15, 2015 2:01 PM  

As with "terrorism" today, if you attend any organized gathering of people whose views have attracted any attention at all, assume half the other attendees are on a government payroll.

At one time I figure every single person attending an Aryan Nation meeting was working for the feds, too stupid to realize they were all plants.

This works for politics, too. As soon as Tea Party made the national news it was doomed to infiltration and diversion.

Blogger Owen June 15, 2015 2:03 PM  

If there's a reasonable reason for the delay(s), I'd figure it would be federal agencies trying to sort out and protect the undercover agents and confidential informants within the gang membership.

That would explain the prolonged detentions without charges. They needed to keep their guys free to talk as they pieced things together. So, they used a heavy dragnet to pull far more in to give their guys "cover."

Setting up a multi-jurisdiction information clearing house (federal, state, and local) would probably be a bureaucratic nightmare (I know, poor fellas). Agencies would have to work out how much they could reveal, who has authority to share what, who takes the lead in charges (if any), etc. As much as we'd think this would be worked out years ago, I doubt it. The laws change, policies change, and they may not have any agreements in place with state and local police forces.

Maybe they are/were hoping to string together a larger RICO case, based on the events.

I don't know.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 15, 2015 2:04 PM  

It's also the only way to hand down expensive toys to your heirs.

Blogger YIH June 15, 2015 2:04 PM  

I smelled a rat early on. Namely the claim that all of those bikers were outlaw gangs. There are many legit MC clubs who ride Harleys and even wear 'colors' (club insignias). Nor is it unusual for many clubs to have a favorite haunt (such as a Hooters imitator). Would some of them not be on the up and up? Of course, but if LEOs wanted to make a big score why didn't they target 'bike week' in FL?
For 3-4 weeks FL is crawling with motorcycle riders with little trouble - arrests are rare, and 'spring breakers' tend to cause much more trouble.
Which is why 'spring breakers' have been run out of city after city.
Here's more info on the Waco mess.
For example: Waco Authority Demanding Liability Waivers Prior To Bond Reductions. For those who forgot, most of those arrested were held on a $1 million bond.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 15, 2015 2:08 PM  

For the M-4gery:

http://www.blackhawk.com/Products/Bags-Packs-Tactical-Nylon/Bags-Packs/Diversion%E2%84%A2/Diversion%C2%AE-Racquet-Bag.aspx

Blogger Owen June 15, 2015 2:11 PM  

if LEOs wanted to make a big score why didn't they target 'bike week' in FL?

That's why I figure, if anything, this caught them completely off guard and they had to scramble to get things set up.

Blogger murphaticlaw June 15, 2015 2:11 PM  

@ John Smallberries
You are a sad strange little man

Seriously though that's the first Reno 911 that I've actually laughed at.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo #0368 June 15, 2015 2:28 PM  

@rufusdog Speak for yourself. I shoot regularly. I carry my Glock 19 pretty much everywhere, too. I'm wearing it right now. 15 rounds of Atomic! 124gr +P bonded-JHP loaded, and a G17 mag in my pocket with the same. I've even checked out the ballistics gel tests for Atomic! to make sure I was actually getting my money's worth (reliable expansion to 0.71" at about 1250 fps, which is pretty good for 9mm).

The NYPD loads pretty much the same thing, but of a different make. Atomic! was reasonably-priced, and comes with a reusable plastic ammo case. They also make 10mm JHP, but I don't have a carry-able 10mm yet.

Anonymous neal June 15, 2015 2:50 PM  

The easiest way to pull an intelligence op is to make a hit look like a random shoot, just cops gone wild.

Just a bar, and bikers. Or a school, and kids.

Or an airliner, for just one target.

Messy on purpose. Random shoots are not always random.

Blogger Giraffe June 15, 2015 3:03 PM  

They came for the bikers, but I was not a biker.

Anonymous BGS June 15, 2015 3:14 PM  

"I realize (despite the posturing) that most of the Ilk aren’t shooters and really have little clue what they are talking about."

Even our gays and womenfolk know about gun trusts. The entire point of it is to add relatives or temporary friends.

Blogger David-093 June 15, 2015 3:35 PM  

Cops could get away with all the shooting they wanted if they killed pedophiles, crips, bloods, ms13, sex traffickers, murderers, but instead they go after non-criminals and piss off people that would otherwise support them.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 15, 2015 3:40 PM  

"Even our gays and womenfolk know about gun trusts."

Now there's a quote for the recruiting ads....

Anonymous Gunnutmegger June 15, 2015 3:56 PM  

@Jeff the Baptist,

You can reduce (but not eliminate) the noise of a rifle, but the bullet itself is traveling well in excess of the speed of sound, and will make a small sonic boom. Not silent, but different than what a non-suppressed shot sounds like.

This can have the effect of misleading the people being fired upon into believing the shot came from the opposite direction of where it was actually fired, if the noise of the bullet passing is louder than the reduced sound from the shot.

Blogger Nobody June 15, 2015 4:00 PM  

I can't speak for the Waco SWAT, but a lot of these SWAT teams throughout the U.S. are now being trained by SOF groups and Quantico. Because the War on Tur-er.

Blogger Nobody June 15, 2015 4:07 PM  

Cops could get away with all the shooting they wanted if they killed pedophiles, crips, bloods, ms13, sex traffickers, murderers, but instead they go after non-criminals and piss off people that would otherwise support them.

You really don't want to otherwise support them only to find out they THINK YOU are a pedophile, crip, blood, ms13, sex trafficker, murderer, and just shoot your ass.

Anonymous Molon Rouge June 15, 2015 4:09 PM  

Tor spelled backwards is ROT and we all know what happens to decay. Zipped out with a high-speed drill and all is ship shape! (Looks around for torch and pitchfork supple)

I am highly reminded of the scene in the original Frankenstein as the villagers chase him to the dark castle.

Anonymous Discard June 15, 2015 5:45 PM  

47 David: The biggest stink occurs when the cops do kill the trash. You think that cop in Ferguson actually got away with it? He's a marked man for life.

Blogger Noah B #120 June 15, 2015 5:53 PM  

@Discard

A result of media manipulation. They don't want to talk about cops wrongfully killing good people, because that would upset the hard working, tax paying citizens who are the last thread holding society together. Piss them off too much and it's game over.

So they pick the scumbags who got what they deserved to portray as martyrs while refusing to mention the innocent people who are attacked. Thus, we hear non-stop coverage of Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and the Gentle Giant, while the media maintains a disciplined silence with regard to Randy Weaver, the Seventh Day Adventists and bikers in Waco, Miriam Carey, Corey Maye, etc.

This simply cannot be an accident.

Blogger JWM June 15, 2015 6:32 PM  

Bikers may be hard asses, but they are not dumb asses. Those guys could clearly see that the entire place was crawling with heavily armed cops. Just the time to take a pot shot at a rival, and spark a gang fight, right? Nobody is that stupid.

JWM

Blogger bob k. mando June 15, 2015 6:57 PM  

22. Tommy Hass June 15, 2015 1:12 PM
Including things like shooting yourself in the foot.



well ... you know ... Tommy may have a point here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1_7g3PcvD0

Blogger bob k. mando June 15, 2015 7:01 PM  

55. JWM June 15, 2015 6:32 PM
Bikers may be hard asses, but they are not dumb asses.



this.

you're going to tell me that the bikers are going to start a turf war in front of a large and obvious ( armored vehicle in parking lot ) police presence?

bullSHIT.

whoever started that was on somebody's payroll.

Anonymous BigGaySteve June 15, 2015 7:40 PM  

whoever started that was on somebody's payroll.

The undercover cop who had his cover blown, with trigger happy cops shooting people running him out, is the most likely scenario of all I have heard.

So they pick the scumbags who got what they deserved to portray as martyrs while refusing to mention the innocent people who are attacked.

Its always gangbangers and thugs that the media embraces. If you point out the people looting in the persons name are wearing gang colors people clutch their pearls. Here is the video of the black cop that shot white teen Dylan Taylor, who was wearing headphones that couldn't hear him, in the back (2 days after the Ferguson liquor store robber was put down)which should bring more outrage than all of the fake hoax outrage since Duke Lacrosse. http://www.thedailysheeple.com/graphic-and-disturbing-video-of-police-shooting-of-dillon-taylor-released_062015 Most gays don't even know about the black moslem serial killer of gays in 3 states Ali Mohammad Brown that got caught 2 weeks after this.

Blogger bob k. mando June 15, 2015 8:02 PM  

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/graphic-and-disturbing-video-of-police-shooting-of-dillon-taylor-released_062015


yeah, that's another straight up cop murder.

and on a minority as well.

funny how THIS doesn't get big media play.

Blogger Eric June 15, 2015 9:37 PM  

If the cops really are lying about this (which seems likely) it's hard to believe they'll get away with it given the number of witnesses.

Anonymous VFM - uh, I forget what # June 15, 2015 11:17 PM  

Attended a CoC (like the one @Wacko) meet here locally - they are at least quarterly affairs - and neutral ground. They are political action meetings period, with some rather temperate (for us) drinking and almost always in public establishments.

Along with the 1% clubs, somewhere around half of the clubs present are veteran's clubs or Christian outreach ministries such as my club. We opened the meeting with the pledge and an invocation. Really.

Our latest meet was harassed by the local constabulary - city and county - and the bar owner was harassed and finally informed that the PD had called in the fire marshal to insure that the club was not over capacity. luckily, it was close to the end of the meet anyway and we cleared the bar before he got there.

Nice, huh?

Freedom of assembly? Speech? Erm, not so much in the good old USSA. It's pretty bad when even the Xtian clubs are pissed at the police.

Anonymous hausfrau June 16, 2015 1:01 AM  

"Society has been feminized considerably since I was young and it's only natural that the days of the old wise masculine cop with a proper temperament for the job has been replaced by some caricature of masculinity that grossly overcompensates for their internal fear with unnecessary aggression and escalation."

Funny you mention this. When professional trainers test the temperaments of dogs they are considering for schutzhund, protection, police, or military work they specifically look to eliminate this kind of animal. A dog that reacts viciously when panicked is a dangerous liability to both the trainer and the public. Too bad they don't temperament test police recruits with this in mind.

Blogger Robert What? June 16, 2015 1:41 AM  

Unfortunately the average new police recruit has morphed from the guy you went to highschool with to the 'roided up meathead who beat you up in highschool.

Anonymous 07NightTrain June 19, 2015 10:34 PM  

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/18/what-really-happened-in-the-waco-motorcy

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