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Saturday, June 27, 2015

"We shall obey God rather than man"

The Lutheran Missouri Synod responds to the Supreme Court's further rejection of representative democracy yesterday:
A one-person majority of the U.S. Supreme Court got it wrong – again. Some 40 years ago, a similarly activist court legalized the killing of children in the womb. That decision has to date left a wake of some 55 million Americans dead. Today, the Court has imposed same-sex marriage upon the whole nation in a similar fashion. Five justices cannot determine natural or divine law. Now shall come the time of testing for Christians faithful to the Scriptures and the divine institution of marriage (Matthew 19:3–6), and indeed, a time of testing much more intense than what followed Roe v. Wade.

Like Roe v. Wade, this decision will be followed by a rash of lawsuits. Through coercive litigation, governments and popular culture continue to make the central post-modern value of sexual freedom override “the free exercise of religion” enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

The ramifications of this decision are seismic. Proponents will seek to drive Christians and Christian institutions out of education at all levels; they will press laws to force faithful Christian institutions and individuals to violate consciences in work practices and myriad other ways. We will have much more to say about this.

During some of the darkest days of Germany, a faithful Lutheran presciently described how governments lose their claim to legitimate authority according to Romans 13.... “We shall obey God rather than man” (Acts 5:29). Christians will now begin to learn what it means to be in a state of solemn conscientious objection against the state.
One almost has to laugh at the disingenuous way in which the rainbow lobby is frantically claiming the matter to be settled. Nothing could be further from the truth. As the Lutheran pastor observed, the issue is now as settled as abortion in the USA, which means it will now become a much bigger and more divisive political issue than before.

The most significant problem with the decision has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand, but the way in which it rendered hundreds of millions of votes cast over decades to be totally irrelevant. The whole point of voting on divisive political matters like this is to avoid politics by other means. But when voting is no longer a permissible option, what else does that leave?

Nor was conscientious objection the only response to the decision, as ISIS took a decidedly different approach to the #LoveWins hashtag. "#Love", such as it is, already has a bodycount.

 That's "diversity"? It sure all looks the same to me.

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145 Comments:

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 June 27, 2015 9:43 AM  

I can imagine Peter shaking his fist at the chief priests when he told them "We should obey God rather than man".

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 27, 2015 9:44 AM  

We're all Christian bakers now.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes June 27, 2015 9:47 AM  

I'm shocked. I thought the Lutheran church had been swallowed by SJWs. At least around here in the northeast it seems they have.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 June 27, 2015 9:51 AM  

Elijah, there is more than one Lutheran synod in the country.

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 9:52 AM  

The elites want to reduce population levels. They are literally waging a culture war on the masses. They are waging war on the family. They are using the homosexuals (among others).

They will literally PROMOTE sodomy in the government school system in the future. They don't want too many roaches on THEIR planet using THEIR resources.

The Jaffe Memo, written over forty years ago. outlines what has happened and is happening.

OpenID mattse001 June 27, 2015 9:57 AM  

Someone needs to literally nail a list of objections to the front door of the Supreme Court. A symbol so obvious, not even the SJWs could miss it.

Anonymous You, Me, & Bud Dupree June 27, 2015 9:57 AM  

There is support against legalization of gay marriage but not enough to overthrow the State. In fact I'd say that 50 percent of the nation sees this as the "gateway" to the SCOTUS legalizing drugs which is all they REALLY care about. For adults under 30 nowadays it is all about the drugs or nothing.

Anonymous Stingray June 27, 2015 9:57 AM  

Nor was conscientious objection the only response to the decision, as ISIS took a decidedly different approach

I find it amazing that the SJWs can'e see that, potentially, they will be begging Christians to help them down the road. I sit here and think they are incapable, intelligence wise, to make the connection (which is undoubtably true of some of them) but upon second thought they have just stuck their fingers in their ears and are shouting LALALALALALALALALALA!!! when it comes to Islam.

Anonymous Strelok June 27, 2015 9:58 AM  

Cant figure out why you even defend democracy VD. I think more and more the Neoreactionaries have it exactly right, public opinion simply becomes a tool in the hand of media and academic power once they turn their eye on a certain topic long enough.

Blogger Sgt Polite June 27, 2015 10:01 AM  

As a longtime lurker and rare commenter, I've often wondered about some of the comments made about Lutherans here. I grew up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, and it's traditional and as close to Catholicism you can get without accepting a commie Pope.

OpenID ar10308 June 27, 2015 10:07 AM  

Thankfully, the church I currently attend is a Lutheran Church of the Missouri Synod (LCMS). The liberal Lutherans are the ECLA.

I see ISIS is doing their #GravityWins celebration like only they can.

Blogger Jack Ward June 27, 2015 10:12 AM  

Had to ask my wife but she felt the Lutheran church was mostly based on German descendents, was very conservative [usually], very stubborn, and took their Christianity very, very seriously.
You know, if you were looking for a good church to attend this litmus test will help decide. Find one that gave the uplifted finger to the SC and the government and kept it up.

Anonymous clk June 27, 2015 10:16 AM  

Lutherans neighbors are very easy to get along with ... all you have to do is make sure you cut your lawn...

Anonymous 11B June 27, 2015 10:17 AM  

The elites want to reduce population levels. They are literally waging a culture war on the masses. They are waging war on the family. They are using the homosexuals (among others).

It has nothing to do with population levels, as evidenced by the fact they continue to facilitate the growth of third world populations both in the third world and at home. It might have more to do with eliminating population groups that might be competitive with them, however.

Blogger Jack Ward June 27, 2015 10:20 AM  

With the resultant talk here and other places it occurred to me that if the freak crowd starts picketing churches and targeting their members for email barrages and their companies to fire them, then, why not conservative business folk, with existing business concerns or new business's out of whole cloth to hire the victims? It seems a good push back. Hire only people you are sure are of our mind [I know..which mind is that?], have a year long probationary period. No sjw or lgbt can keep their mouth shut that long. Its like holding your breath. They cannot.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 27, 2015 10:21 AM  

We can make life difficult where we can. No more spouse like benefits for gay couples

You want the bennies. Get married.

Anonymous clk June 27, 2015 10:23 AM  

"the issue is now as settled as abortion in the USA, which means it will now become a much bigger and more divisive political issue than before."

I dont what to dismiss the seriousness of the situation but morally abortion is an abomination to God.... the gay situation makes him sad, but not the same as abortion...

What needs to happen is a. 1. All christains need to come together and 2 make sure it is understood that we demand the right tk beleive and practise our religions...

You have to stop this crap of these are not true christians etc... the differences between the faiths is insignificant compared to a common enemy.

Anonymous 11B June 27, 2015 10:24 AM  

One almost has to laugh at the disingenuous way in which the rainbow lobby is frantically claiming the matter to be settled.

That's a good point. Whenever there is a law they dislike, or a court decision they lose, all they talk about is continuing to work to eliminate said law or rectify said decision. Yet when the cards fall their way, they expect the other side to drop all dissent and fully accept their position.

It is sort of like voting when the left demands another vote each and every time they lose a referendum, but won't permit any once they get the vote the want.

Don't listen to them if they tell you that this is "in the Constitution" and fully settled. Remember the 2nd Amendment has been in the Constitution from the get-go and interpreted for over 200 years as a private right to gun ownership. Yet the left today refuses to accept this and dreams of the day they will have their 5-4 majority to overturn this. So even something recognized as Constitutional for over 200 years isn't considered settled to the left. So why should something 24 hours old be considered settled by us?

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 June 27, 2015 10:31 AM  

Ezekiel puts it thus:
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it.
Pardon the pun but no-one really much does give a bugger about what gay's do in privacy. The SCOTUS decision and, apparently, God's Judgement wasn't much about sex, sexual and human health and child needs.. Arrogance, apathy, selfishness, greed, was the actual undoing. Much like the SCOTUS decision.

In other words the "It's all about me generation", from baby boomers to Gen Y, Rich, stupid, and about to get blown away in another chapter of historical. Unless I'm reading the book wrong. look up.

Anonymous Jourdan June 27, 2015 10:31 AM  

@ Elijah Rhodes - There are two mainline Lutheran churches in the U.S. The largest are the Evangelicals. They are more or less like the Church of England/Episcopal Church: full-on SJW, lesbian "pastors", etc.

The Missouri Synod is the smaller group, though still large, and is much more traditional. It has its roots in the strong Lutheran immigration to the New World, roughly from Saskatchewan down through to Missouri, in the late 19th Century. It is much more traditional.

As they both call themselves,naturally enough "Lutherans," the key is to look for the "E" or the "MS" after the name or, as a shortcut, take a look at the pastor. If the pastor is a 50-something quasi-dyke decked out in what appears to be a hand-me-down costume from a 1973 production of "Jesus and the Technicolor Dreamcoat", it's an Evangelical church.

Anonymous clk June 27, 2015 10:34 AM  

John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.…

Blogger dc.sunsets June 27, 2015 10:36 AM  

The elites want to reduce population levels.

I think the elites just want power, and the family is their direct competitor. Recall Goering's quote about political authority, and how those who wield it con their citizens into the King's wars.

Blogger Tommy Hass June 27, 2015 10:40 AM  

" but upon second thought they have just stuck their fingers in their ears and are shouting LALALALALALALALALALA!!! when it comes to Islam."

Who gaves you permission to equate ISIS with Islam you nasty slore?

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 June 27, 2015 10:51 AM  

Never give in to the freaks and deniers. They can never make abortion moral, homosexuality natural, or Christianity unimportant, no matter how hard they try.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 27, 2015 10:55 AM  

My first thought was that it'd be nice if the Vatican could stop counting carbon credits long enough to speak on this minor kerfuffle. My next thought was to remember Francis's previous statements on the issue, and the lack of action over Ireland's approval of homogamy, and I realized I should be careful what I wish for. Much as I hate to say it, there's no way the Vatican would release anything this plain-spoken and decisive today. (And yes, I'd love to eat crow on that one.)

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 27, 2015 10:57 AM  

It's worth reading the entire Lutheran statement. It includes the following quote from a German Lutheran writing in 1932, the year Hitler was elected:

The Caesar cult in its manifold forms, the deification of the state, is one great form of the defection from the [true] idea of the state. There are also other possibilities of such defection. The government can forget and neglect its tasks. When it no longer distinguishes between right and wrong, when its courts are no longer governed by the strict desire for justice, but by special interests, when government no longer has the courage to exercise its law, fails to exercise its duties, undermines its own legal order, when it weakens through its family law parental authority and the estate of marriage, then it ceases to be governing authority. ---Hermann Sasse, “What Is the State?” (1932)

Blogger Ragin' Dave June 27, 2015 10:58 AM  

Cail Corishev - Find a traditional Latin Mass. Most of them aren't attached to the liberal Novus Ordo diocese, and are staunch conservatives when it comes to cultural war. Pope Frank only thinks he's Catholic. The church I go to knows to our bones that we are.

My bishop still calls them "sodomites", not "homosexuals".

Anonymous BGS June 27, 2015 10:58 AM  

It might have more to do with eliminating population groups that might be competitive with them, however

That's exactly it. They don't care how many blacks barely smart enough to put their name & address correctly that get accepted to every Ivy League college but an Asian with a perfect ACT, perfect math SAT and 13 AP credit courses to his name applying to all Ivy League colleges must not enter. businessinsider.com/michael-wang-says-ivy-league-discriminates-against-asians-2015-5
Even worse he might figure out the rigged game.

as ISIS took a decidedly different approach to the #LoveWins hashtag. "#Love", such as it is, already has a bodycount.

Leftists are universally cowards that need others to enforce their will. If what moslems did yesterday in France with heads on fenceposts, was done to a couple looking to get married, the left would worship them like they do cop killers.

Who gaves you permission to equate ISIS with Islam you nasty slore? The Islamic State does. It is the IS in IS IS.

You want the bennies. Get married. #EndPartnerBenefits gets pearl clutching.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 June 27, 2015 10:59 AM  

ISIS is Islam, Tommy Hass.

Blogger Dan in Tx June 27, 2015 11:05 AM  

Strelok: "I think more and more the Neoreactionaries have it exactly right, public opinion simply becomes a tool in the hand of media and academic power once they turn their eye on a certain topic long enough."

DING DING DING We have a winner! This is why they love the democracy. The masses can be swayed by the media which they own and control. All the while, it allows them to stay behind the curtain pulling the strings to keep the heat off themselves. As the resident commenter who has found himself leaning full Nazi, you can guess who I generally mean by "them".

Anonymous The other robot June 27, 2015 11:12 AM  

White House deep involvement in the Zimmerman Trial?

What else are they deeply involved in?

(55M aborted Americans had to be replaced with Illegal Immigrants ...)

Blogger Dan in Tx June 27, 2015 11:14 AM  

From the Christian angle, I believe a great culling has begun in earnest. Too many who call themselves Christians but are instead of the devil are mixed in with God's people. I believe God is conducting a great sifting with this and you'll see a great number of so called "Christians" fall by the wayside and a minority percentage stand firm to their beliefs. Same as it ever was.

Anonymous Mark Call June 27, 2015 11:18 AM  

"... the issue is now as settled as abortion in the USA, which means it will now become a much bigger and more divisive political issue than before.

True, but can there be any doubt that such was the INTENT?

"Come out of her, My people...do not partake of her sins, so that you do not suffer her plagues," is STILL the best advice.

Anonymous J. J. June 27, 2015 11:21 AM  

Jourdan makes a very good summary of the ELCA vs. Missouri Synod Lutheran churches. I grew up in the ELCA but certainly the LCMS has always been much more solid. That would have been late 70's/early 80's. At that time the ELCA was a ticking time bomb. A lot of local parishes still had no interest in female pastors (let alone lesbian ones), taught fairly traditional Christian morality and so forth. However, there was a great fear of the "fundie" boogie man... picking and choosing which parts of the Bible modern man should adhere to was already being accepted. The outward results ramped up pretty quickly... eventually there were statements on human sexuality which didn't match traditional understandings, more and more female pastors, lesbians, left wing causes, and so forth. There's a little bit of independence from parish to parish, and a variance in how far down the road these things have gone... a few maintain a more traditional outlook, but not that many.

The only thing I'd caution against is referring to the ELCA as the "Evangelical" Lutherans. Yes, the E is for Evangelical, but why, I don't know. There's very little "Evangelical" about the ELCA... either in our modern cultural understanding of what an "Evangelical" church is, or in the proper understanding of the word Evangelical (i.e. related to the "evangel", aka The Gospel). When visiting my home church one time, my new wife leaned over during a service and asked me... "Do they preach the gospel here?". Good observation... not really. ELCA people are just as happy for you to say "ELCA" instead of "Evanglical Lutheran Church" as evangelicals would be to not be associated with the ELCA.

While I haven't been a Lutheran for decades now, I will put in a plug for Issues, Etc. (http://issuesetc.org/). It's a Lutheran Chuch Missouri Synod radio show/podcast that I listen to a lot... very solid and high thinking on a wide variety of issues related to theology, Christian living, and politics... several standard deviations above most pop-American-evangelical fare.

Blogger Heir to the Throne June 27, 2015 11:23 AM  

I hope the Soc Cons start calling the marriage between one man and one woman in a Church "Holy Unions".

It would be amusing to see the howls of protest from rainbow lobby/LGBTXYZ activists and progressives that Holy Unions should apply to their marriages.

Anonymous bw June 27, 2015 11:25 AM  

That the Marxian-Trotskyist obliteration of the family was reversed under Stalin in Russia is something that is still lamented by the neo-Bolsheviks, the New Left, and the Feminists.
Under Stalin, the early great hopes for new ways of living and loving were brought to an end. "Strengthening the family" was made an official task, "free love" was denounced as a bourgeois invention...the "Order of Maternal Glory" was introduced as a reward for mothers of seven children or more. Anti-abortion and anti-divorce laws were passed in 1936, and homosexuality was outlawed - Feminism for Beginners, 1993
...while honoring motherhood (a conservative position), the U.S., bastion of the free world, was promoting feminism in order to "liberate woman from the bondage of motherhood" so that they could fully integrate into the workforce.
So which State, then, was the one pursuing classical Marxism?
-Bolton, Revolution from Above

Hire only people you are sure are of our mind

That's the purpose of having TheState backstop the cultural revolution. Not gonna allow it. Discrimination or what not.
Overturn or simply ignore the Laws that are in the way of the societal Marxist revolution, and make new ones that help accomplish that goal.
Power rules the masses, not Law.
The ritual mocking of the Creator's Nature with abortion and sodomy etc continues apace in the Kakistocracy.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 27, 2015 11:25 AM  

Ragin' Dave, that's good advice, and I have. But whether or not Francis is the true pope (and this isn't the place to argue that), the world thinks he is. So it'd be nice if the man the world sees as the leader of the Catholic faith would come out in strong defense of one of the sacraments of the Church established by Jesus Christ in His time on earth.

If there's a silver lining, maybe it's that this will make it harder for people to equivocate and play both sides, and we'll see where they really stand (in the case of the Church, do they stand with the Deposit of Faith or outside it?). When gay marriage was just a theory, men could claim to oppose it while doing nothing to do so. Now that it's a reality, that will be harder to do. But as I mentioned, it was already a reality in Ireland, which was once a Catholic redoubt. So I'm afraid we already know the answer.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 27, 2015 11:30 AM  

Proud to be LCMS. Yes of course, the LCMS has been substantially infiltrated by SJWs, but we are fighting back with success. In 2010 we kicked them out of the Presidency. The previous administration would never have put out a statement like Pastor Harrison's.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma June 27, 2015 11:34 AM  

"Rainbow lobby"? No, the new pejorative is now "Rainbow Nazis."

Blogger bob k. mando June 27, 2015 11:38 AM  

23. Tommy Hass June 27, 2015 10:40 AM
Who gaves you permission to equate ISIS with Islam you nasty slore?



since when does Sharia *not* say that the penalty for homosex is death, camel fucker?

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 27, 2015 12:03 PM  

Mr.MantraMan: "We're all Christian bakers now."

I think so.

Blogger kurt9 June 27, 2015 12:06 PM  

There is a bit of revisionist history being peddled by the right. When "gay" marriage first appeared on the political radar screen, there were sensible proposals made by several libertarian economists and professors to get the government out of the "marriage" business completely and allow the different factions of society (churches, secular groups, etc.) to define their own concepts of marriage. These proposals would have more than adequately protected religious liberty in America.

These sensible proposals were rejected, not by the liberals, but by various social conservative factions themselves. Its not clear to me why they did so but I think it is rooted in their obsession of having influence over those who do not share their world-view. That is, they are not content to practice their world-view on their own as autonomous individuals, but rather seek to have some sort of influence over others who do not share them. It is this obsession that drove them to essentially "double down" on their bet, which resulted in them loosing everything.

I believe in the preservation of religious liberty in America. But attempting to influence the lives of those who do not share a particularly world-view is not the proper way to protect the right to believe in and practice that world-view. This is a lesson that appears to be learned the hard way by the religious right.

Those of you reading this, consider GG effort against the SJW's as a case study. GG has been a smashing success because it did not attempt to impose a particular world-view on all of its participants. Rather, it was a consumers' revolt against an attempt to impose a single world-view upon everyone in the milieu, that is, the schtick of the SJW's. Same is true for the boycott of Tor Books, which I predict will also be successful in its aims.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar June 27, 2015 12:09 PM  

Oh, well let me explain this for all of you who are somewhat confused. The Obama administration and the SCROTUS has just ruled that there is now NO LAW.
"DO AS THOU WILT IS THE WHOLE OF THE LAW." OK nigger, I can do that...

Anonymous Stilicho June 27, 2015 12:10 PM  

The ELCA split in 2010 over the gay issue. The ELCA went full gay, and a new Lutheran Church was formed in Columbus, OH, the NALC that is closer to the missouri synod although they differ on female ordination.

Anonymous MPC June 27, 2015 12:13 PM  

That American Airlines picture.

Holy shit. It's like that movie THEY LIVE only for real.

Anonymous Stilicho June 27, 2015 12:14 PM  

The "evangelical" in elca is a vestige from a long ago merger with another church and not any connection to evangelical churches as we know them today.

Anonymous DeepThought June 27, 2015 12:16 PM  

This is why all major religions say homosexuality is a sin equal to murder. It destroys civilizations. I believe all major religions say they should die or am I wrong lol?

Anonymous Sheila June 27, 2015 12:18 PM  

Our older son attended a LCMS school for grades 6-8, and received an excellent education (public high school was an afterthought and utter waste of time). Although we're not Lutheran, he was required to attend the standard confirmation class they held (and it was far, far superior to the measly one our relatively conservative Episcopal church taught). My personal beliefs are classical Anglicanism (i.e. see the original Book of Common Prayer and 39 articles) and I never found the Lutheran services we attended a comfortable fit, but I will praise to the skies their unflinching devotion to God rather than government.

Anonymous ZJ June 27, 2015 12:21 PM  

Why does the government have to decide a religious matter? I seriously don't understand why they didn't replace marriage licences with civil unions 10 years ago and let churches perform marriages between whomever they wanted.

Blogger JACIII June 27, 2015 12:23 PM  

Its not clear to me why they did so but I think it is rooted in their obsession of having influence over those who do not share their world-view.

Of all the idiotic posts seen here this is as close to the top as I have witnessed.

Two men buggering each other in cohabitation is not marriage any more than a boy pretending to be a girl is a girl or 2+2=5 or islam is the religion of peace. World-view /= objective reality.

Social conservatives simply did not accept the depth of the unhinged depravity (despite blatant abundant evidence) or the intensity and elitist power behind the push to deny reality to combat it effectively. Just another noble defeat enabled out by the moderate.
Can they be held accountable in turn for ignoring the reality of the scale, scope, money, and elitist power behind the push for Orwellian law? Yes.

Blogger Patrick June 27, 2015 12:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

OpenID simplytimothy June 27, 2015 12:33 PM  

ISIS takes a different approach...

Did anybody else notice the "rainbow" that awaits the sodomites as they look down from the building?

Blogger Edd Jobs June 27, 2015 12:49 PM  

Maybe it's time for American Airlines to rename its Admirals Clubs. They could become Rainbow Clubs, complete with transgender bathrooms and "safe spaces" for the special people.

Anonymous Steve June 27, 2015 12:54 PM  

Maybe it's time for American Airlines to rename its Admirals Clubs.

Rear Admirals Clubs.

Blogger VD June 27, 2015 12:57 PM  

I seriously don't understand why they didn't replace marriage licences with civil unions 10 years ago and let churches perform marriages between whomever they wanted.

That's how it is done in Europe, and that is also why it's not such a big deal here. Two homosexuals want to get state-married? Fine, go down to the town hall and register it. But they're not getting a big service at the local Catholic church offending everyone. Which, of course, is all the drama queens really want.

That is also why there are so few "married" homosexuals in Europe even though it is legal pretty much everywhere but Italy. When normal couples get married, they do the church service, then they go down to the town hall to register.

Blogger kurt9 June 27, 2015 12:59 PM  

Social conservatives simply did not accept the depth of the unhinged depravity (despite blatant abundant evidence) or the intensity and elitist power behind the push to deny reality to combat it effectively. Just another noble defeat enabled out by the moderate.

Thanks for making my point about the social conservatives wanting influence over those who do not share their world-view. You need to admit your mistakes. You guys "doubled-down", rolled the dice, and lost everything (in Las Vegas speak). Your comments make clear you have not learned the lesson.

Anonymous Donn #0114 June 27, 2015 1:00 PM  

How can they force you to celebrate their sin if they can't shove it in you and your children's faces? Get with the program it's all 'Modern Family' all the way down from here.

Anonymous Jourdan June 27, 2015 1:01 PM  

I agree with Vox. If one looks at the gay marriage rate in Canada, for example, hardly any get married at all.

The only bright side to this I see is that all of my self-righteous work colleagues who have been talking about this non-stop for years while collecting married benefits while simply living together will now have to get married.

Divorces are bad enough. Imagine two drama queen homosexuals in a cat fight divorce. It'll be entertaining.

Blogger Josh June 27, 2015 1:14 PM  

If anyone doubts that this is primarily about the larger culture war and not gay hospital visits and rent control, this is from Gawker:

I can’t help but be happiest, though, about the defeat of the anti-marriage equality crusaders. The defeat of people who signed up to lose, who wasted their time and ours on a platform of animus and contempt. The defeat of people who put principle over the practical, who fought to preserve their limited understanding of an already imperfect institution over the actual human lives that would benefit from it. The defeat of people who did what bigots do: discriminate, vilify, fear-monger, argue irrationally and without respect to human dignity, and then bristle when they’re called out for what they are (bigots).

The jig is up. The world has turned and left you fuming, seething, weeping. Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible.

Anonymous GreyS June 27, 2015 1:15 PM  

Find a traditional Latin Mass. Most of them aren't attached to the liberal Novus Ordo diocese, and are staunch conservatives when it comes to cultural war. Pope Frank only thinks he's Catholic. The church I go to knows to our bones that we are.


Because who better to decide who is a "real" Catholic than the group whose "pope' lives with his mom in a two-bedroom farmhouse in Kansas?

Blogger Josh June 27, 2015 1:17 PM  

That's how it is done in Europe, and that is also why it's not such a big deal here.

What was the reaction in Europe to that Irish vote? It got a ton of attention over here.

Also, if you look at gay marriage as primarily a club to beat the cultural conservatives with, it would make sense that it's a bigger deal here if Europe really is as post Christian as reported.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 27, 2015 1:21 PM  

I seriously don't understand why they didn't replace marriage licences with civil unions 10 years ago and let churches perform marriages between whomever they wanted.

Because this was never about letting them "marry" or the equivalent thereof, or insurance benefits, or being able to visit each other in the hospital, or any of the other complaints that civil unions would have resolved. It was about attacking one of the main foundation blocks of Christendom -- the family defined as a married husband and wife with children. As long as there was any distinction between real marriage and whatever they were doing, that wouldn't cut it.

And it was also about freaking out the squares in flyover country, which I think is why they preferred to force it through the courts rather than gradually indoctrinate people into approving of it. The squares were okay with civil unions, but it's no fun to rub your square dad's face in something if he doesn't mind it.

Anonymous GreyS June 27, 2015 1:23 PM  

It might have more to do with eliminating population groups that might be competitive with them, however

It's both. They want to lower the overall numbers and target those who would be competitive with them. It's clear now they are after the continent of Africa. They promote abortion and contraception there while also introducing diseases which kill. The natural resources there are too great to not go after. Fracturing the U.S. is only one part.

Blogger Josh June 27, 2015 1:26 PM  

And it was also about freaking out the squares in flyover country, which I think is why they preferred to force it through the courts rather than gradually indoctrinate people into approving of it. The squares were okay with civil unions, but it's no fun to rub your square dad's face in something if he doesn't mind it.

Shorter version: "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING BIGOT!"

Blogger VD June 27, 2015 1:29 PM  

The jig is up. The world has turned and left you fuming, seething, weeping. Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible.

Meanwhile, ISIS trumps their argument with #GravityWins.

Blogger kh123 June 27, 2015 1:47 PM  

"Cant figure out why you even defend democracy VD. I think more and more the Neoreactionaries have it exactly right, public opinion simply becomes a tool in the hand of media and academic power once they turn their eye on a certain topic long enough."

Had always thought that no matter what system you have, someone will exploit a flaw somewhere down the line.

But when that system's roots lie in a country who, not long after accepting democracy, endorsed more than once a statesman who, when not breaking schlongs off of statues, was agitating for Athens, now for Sparta, now for Persia... now for Athens again...

Hell, even Pericles perfected the whole concept of a ricebowl economy well before that.

"I see ISIS is doing their #GravityWins celebration like only they can."

Hopefully, our resident Israeli can chime in on how what happens within the high places of our political backyard doesn't reach anywhere else.

Blogger kurt9 June 27, 2015 1:47 PM  

Guys, there were only two possible ways SCOTUS could have ruled on this case. One is the way they did. They other (which is what I preferred and thought they were going to) would be to rule that it was a state's rights issue and that the federal government had no jurisdiction over the issue. Traditionally, marriage has been a state-level issue and remains so with regards to family and divorce court.

However, even ruling as a state's rights issue would have still effectively legalized same sex marriage nationwide because of the full faith and credit clause in the Constitution.

Anonymous LES June 27, 2015 1:48 PM  

All laws legislate morality. Declaring something right or wrong is making a moral judgment. We have laws against theft because stealing is wrong. We have laws against murder because killing is wrong. Even running a stop sign is illegal because it is wrong, immoral, to endanger the safety and lives of others on the street.

The question is: who decides and what standard of morality will be observed?

For Western Civilization the moral standards were informed by Christianity.
Today traditional Christian values are being rejected in favor of the "New Morality" which appears fluid and based on public opinion.

Public opinion says that the old definition of marriage is out of date and should
be redefined to include same-sex couples. Will polygamy be next to be legalized? Who decides and what standard of morality will be observed? Those who reject Christian morals should not use them to oppose polygamy or anything else.

This really is a culture war. The issue of same-sex marriage was just the vehicle used to further marginalize traditional Christianity and Christians.
Those who do not kneel to the "New Morality" will be targeted and silenced.
Jesus warned us it would happen.

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

Anonymous Jassi June 27, 2015 1:53 PM  

Many of the "Churches" in MN fly the gay flag. They say it's "acceptance." I'll believe it when i see Nazi and Confederate flags on their "Church" too.

Blogger kh123 June 27, 2015 1:54 PM  

" 'The defeat of people who did what bigots do: discriminate, vilify, fear-monger, argue irrationally and without respect to human dignity, and then bristle when they’re called out for what they are (bigots).' "

Yes, repeat that word again, in parenthesis. Because we didn't catch it from the description.

I keep forgetting is as much their rabbit signaling as it is an attempt at political commentary, using English. Klaatu, barada, bigot...

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami June 27, 2015 1:55 PM  

"We're on board. Diversity is our strength"


Are there any dictionaries at American Airlines? "Diversity" is "hetero", not "homo".

If they were honest about their agenda, those rainbow screens would have stick figures buttfucking or scissoring.

Anonymous rienzi June 27, 2015 2:04 PM  

" The jig is up. The world has turned and left you fuming, seething, weeping. Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible."



Reads almost like it could have been lines for the demon in the movie "The Exorcist"

Blogger Rantor June 27, 2015 2:08 PM  

Pastor Harris is an awesome LCMS President and a real Bible-believing Christian and no I am not LCMS.

.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 27, 2015 2:09 PM  

LES: "Declaring something right or wrong is making a moral judgment."

It may not be a judgement on what is right universally; it may be a judgement that group X imposes on group Y.

LES: "The question is: who decides and what standard of morality will be observed?"

The Supreme Court consists of three Jews and six Catholics. (Protestants are not represented.) The Jews all voted to impose constitutionalized homosexual marriage on the Christian nation. A majority of Catholics opposed that, and all the dissenters were Catholics. But the Jewish bloc peeled off enough Catholics to win.

That is who decides.

LES: "For Western Civilization the moral standards were informed by Christianity."

Now it's Judeo-Christianity.

LES: "Today traditional Christian values are being rejected in favor of the "New Morality" which appears fluid and based on public opinion."

It's neither fluid nor based on public opinion; it's militant and based on a dominant minority's opinion.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 27, 2015 2:17 PM  

kurt9: -> SCOTUS could have said that "same sex marriage" is a contradiction in terms, and invalidated every "gay marriage" that's been issued so far.

because of the full faith and credit clause in the Constitution. -> Legalizing "same sex marriage" breaks faith.

Good points about how we lost the culture war. Time to stop surrendering and start fighting.

Blogger Corvinus June 27, 2015 2:17 PM  

Because who better to decide who is a "real" Catholic than the group whose "pope' lives with his mom in a two-bedroom farmhouse in Kansas?

Don't be an asshole, GreyS.

Only a tiny fraction of traditionalists are conclavists, and conclavists are seen as kooks by other traditionalists.

OpenID eidolon1109 June 27, 2015 2:19 PM  

I seriously don't understand why they didn't replace marriage licences with civil unions 10 years ago and let churches perform marriages between whomever they wanted.

There are valid societal reasons to encourage real marriage and give it a privileged status. Society benefits from a strong culture of marriage -- it encourages industriousness from men, discourages feral behavior in women, and promotes stable families in which to raise kids who don't turn out to be screwed up.

Now, if the alternatives are only 1) the government pretends gay people can be married or 2) the government doesn't really involve itself in marriage at all, then obviously #2 is a better option. But in the past we had 3) the government promotes marriage as a positive choice for normal people by creating incentives and removing problems for men and women, which was the best option by far unless it inevitably leads to #1.

It's frustrating to me that we can't even have an incentive program now without it turning into a "civil rights" thing. Marriage isn't a right, it's a system of incentives to encourage behaviors that are beneficial to society. As Christians we don't even believe that the state's sanction has any moral force at all. We mostly get married via the state to take advantage of some of the state benefits and as a way of publicly showing that we're married.

There are no societal benefits to gay people being "married." It encourages perverse behavior, encourages people to take behavior which is dangerous and spreads disease and turn it into an identity, and there are so few who would even want to get married that even if there were benefits, the upheaval in changing things would be far more damaging than any benefits that could be had. There's simply no reason the state would want gay people to be "married," the way it needs normal people to be married. There's no reason to incur the many costs of marriage itself to the state (licensing, court costs, etc.), let alone the societal disruption of pretending to change the definition of marriage.

Anonymous Veorary June 27, 2015 2:25 PM  

I'll second J. J.'s endorsement of the Issues, Etc. radio show/podcast. Pastor Harrison himself is an occasional guest. Lots of content - two hours every weekday - covering theological and cultural topics on a relatively high level, with no extraneous chatter. It's unabashedly conservative Lutheran, but I gather that it has a not insignificant non-Lutheran audience.

OpenID eidolon1109 June 27, 2015 2:26 PM  

It never ceases to irritate me how not sanctioning something via the state equals "disapproval" anyway. Gay people could already do whatever they wanted. The state simply has no interest in gay relationships. From the state's perspective, they're simply not important. They don't matter because they don't produce children, and the number of gays who would actually want to get married and stay that way for any period of time is so small as to be meaningless.

It's like someone said, "You will be made to care."

Blogger GoldRush Apple June 27, 2015 2:39 PM  

>> Vox Day: That's "diversity"? It sure all looks the same to me.

The flag has different colors, not just one (white) or two (male & female) colors, but six (?). Diversity isn't plain and backwards, gosh.

Blogger CM June 27, 2015 2:46 PM  

LES -

I disagree with your assertion that laws push morality.

While morality seeks to keep personal lives from chaos, laws keep society from chaos.

Some laws cross a moral threshold and some morals cross a law threshold.

Take murder, for instance - morally (self order), psychological or spiritual (take your pick) harm is done to the person who commits the murder.

Lawfully, it creates chaos in the immediate world around the incident... from harmed family members to possibility of it occurring again.

While I believe gay "marriage" has a lawful problem to it, our culture, society & gov't have wholly dismissed the importance of everything it causes chaos to.

I do not agree with legislating morality. Its taken a long time for me to get here, but you can't force people to be moral. The law only goes so far and its the heart that needs to change for there to be morals.

This is why i'm more libertarian than (what these guys call) conservative.

Blogger GoldRush Apple June 27, 2015 2:50 PM  

>> eidolon1109: It's like someone said, "You will be made to care."

I never took civil marriages seriously, or at least I did not view such a thing as I do a religious ceremony. Now two people of the same sex can have a civil marriage, which makes civil marriages to me ultimately meaningless. Sure, I'll show to a civil marriage between opposite sexes, but I won't show to a civil marriage between two people of the same sex -- that's a waste of my time and emotions.

The Office, Oscar, "The Dundies are kind of like a kid's birthday party. And you go, and there's really nothing for you to do there, but the kid's having a really good time, so you... You're kind of there. That's... That's kind of what it's like."

That's how I feel about same-sex civil "unions."

Blogger Edd Jobs June 27, 2015 2:55 PM  

While I believe gay "marriage" has a lawful problem to it, our culture, society & gov't have wholly dismissed the importance of everything it causes chaos to.

And anyone who believes otherwise is no longer part of society. Expel them from the warren!

Anonymous Book_Girl June 27, 2015 3:00 PM  

But when voting is no longer a permissible option, what else does that leave?

My husband and I were discussing this yesterday. Voting is meaningless. The courts (oligarchs) will impose whatever laws, regulations, etc. they want regardless of the will of the people.

So what option does that leave the people? Massive civil disobedience and/or violence.

I can't believe the leftists (and every Republican claiming SCOTUS decisions are the "law of the land" and must be accepted) can't see this.

I don't think I'm being paranoid or naive. You can tell me if I'm wrong, but if voting is meaningless, the only think people can do other than simply submit--which historically is never done forever--is resort to violence.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 27, 2015 3:11 PM  

Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible.

Millions of people were exterminated in the 20th century by the forebears of today's SJW's. There was no shortage of people eager to kill in the name of social justice. This guy is an example of the type. He seethes with SJW moral outrage and hatred toward those who disagree with him.

I repeat: SJW's are extremely dangerous, vicious animals. They must be approached as such. Their roiling hatred means they can and will kill if given the chance. Be aware.

Blogger Nick S June 27, 2015 3:19 PM  

The rampant sciolist sneers are astoundingly shallow.

Blogger Crude June 27, 2015 3:19 PM  

Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible.

Apparently what feels incredible is anger and hatred. Must be that lingering realization that, even with the SCOTUS declaring same-sex "marriage" legal, it's still a fake bit of pretend-play.

Just look on the bright side: at least now when two men or two women get married, the climate is such that only the boldest will tell you to your face that it's fucking ridiculous. The rest - including the SJWs - will at least have the graciousness to lie to you, even though you both know the truth.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 27, 2015 3:23 PM  

As Kratman once observed, that a Muslim work to establish Sharia, when it is possible, is a bad Muslim .... what about Jew/Israel that does not do what The Law demands?

Leviticus 20:13 New International Version (NIV)

“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 27, 2015 3:25 PM  

that a Muslim that does not to

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 27, 2015 3:43 PM  

I am a LCMS member, life long.

It isn't perfect. It isn't free from SJW (to many people get into "church" work because they "care"). But when you come to the table, the doctrines are clear.

When I was dating my bride, her priest warned her that the "Mo Lu's are pretty orthodox!"

My parish is making preparations should the need arise. Some will fail. Some may abandon the faith. But for me and mine, we shall follow the Lord.

Anonymous RedJack #22 June 27, 2015 3:49 PM  

Book_Girl
We are at the end of the democratic phase of our civilization. There are few choices left. The most common is that the Empire breaks up, an you are left with a plethora of states under some sort of noble leadership. The other choice is that the people demand a strong man to "solve" the situation.

Either way, the fiction of voting them out is almost dead. I live in Iowa, and few Republicans are very excited about the coming election. Many who were fired up the last three cycles are sitting this one out. On the Dem side, the only excitement I see is for Sanders, an admitted communist.

No one really thinks that an election will change anything. What worries me is that the current POTUS is cheering one side's rejection of peaceful activities, without wondering what the other sides are learning. Baltimore went up in flames, and cops are pulling out. What does that teach San Antonio? What does that teach Rose Bud Sioux reservation? It says that if you start acting up, the cops will be pulled.

We are heading into interesting times.

Blogger Ragin' Dave June 27, 2015 3:53 PM  

GreyS - No, we don't have another pope. And we're not Sedevacantists, either. But we know that this pope isn't really a man of religion. He cannot be, as his Marxist ideology trumps anything he might learn from the Church.

The Catholic Church has survived bad popes before, so long as the faithful remember that THEY are the Church. Frank may have the buildings, but we have the faith. He'll pass on eventually and reap whatever reward he's earned. In the meantime, Catholics the world over need to fight to make sure their local clergy are upholding the faith. And if they're not, leave, and let them preach to empty pews about how "tolerant" and "inclusive" they are. Find a Catholic priest who actually believes in God and the Gospels, and support them.

OpenID simplytimothy June 27, 2015 4:18 PM  

I don't think I'm being paranoid or naive.

No, just a bit late to the party. Preps for this have been ongoing for at least a decade. There are millions who think as you do.

Blogger Mark Citadel June 27, 2015 4:27 PM  

Yes, ISIS have their #GravityWins, which is surprisingly witty.

This entire debacle goes to show that democracy is a failure. Any government not explicitly Christian, will become anti-Christian. Conservatism is standing in the way of real right wing backlash.

Blogger Mark Citadel June 27, 2015 4:29 PM  

PS - As a Christian, I would not care a lick if ISIS decided to demonstrate #GravityWins on the entire Gawker media staff.

Blogger Thordaddy June 27, 2015 4:36 PM  

The enemy wants Liberation WITHOUT separation... So the enemy DEMANDS eradication.

Anonymous TroperA June 27, 2015 4:44 PM  

The jig is up. The world has turned and left you fuming, seething, weeping. Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. Fuck you, Bryan Fischer. Fuck you, Maggie Gallagher. Fuck you, Ben Carson. Fuck you, Fox News. You should all feel like assholes because you are all assholes. And now you’re also, definitively, losers. And it feels incredible.

Those following the Anonymous Conservative can see what's happening here; can see why so much effort and gold was poured into making gay marriage legal. Because the rabbits who wanted to see it legalized felt such an overwhelming anxiety at NOT having their life choices validated, that they NEEDED to transform the law of the land and attack those who dismissed their beliefs. This wasn't about "gaining rights". It was alleviating the howling cry of the Beast that rules their appetites. Now that they've destroyed the source of their anxiety (the system that allowed people to disapprove of them,) they can feel happy again. But it's the exuberant happiness of a Malignant Narcissist who just punched a bystander in the face and felt a rush of power upon seeing her victim writhing on the ground. Finally, she can forget her own emptiness and pain and revel in the pain of another.

Something tells me this SCOTUS decision isn't going to be accepted as readily as the Roe v Wade decision was. Abortion has lasted for so long because many pro-lifers who would be more vigorous in opposing it secretly want to keep it around just in case their own little Kaylee gets knocked up by the captain of the football team. Also, they view it as a eugenics program scouring out the sperm-droppings of the local ghettos and trailer parks. The Gay Marriage decision will be different since the Rainbow Militia WILL be gunning for religious schools and hospitals and will force all people to affirm state-approved Goodthink or else. That isn't going to go over as well in the parts of Flyover Land where belief is taken seriously.

OpenID simplytimothy June 27, 2015 4:47 PM  

While the Lutheran action is a church action, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates is a Protestant doctrine (?) that recognizes the covenantal nature of (Godly) government and defines some duties when "The King" goes off the reservation for lesser government officials.


“The primary duty of the lesser magistrates regarding the doctrine of the lesser magistrates is threefold. First, they are to oppose and resist any laws or edicts from the higher authority that contravene the law or Word of God. Second, they are to protect the person, liberty, and property of those who reside within their jurisdiction from any unjust or immoral laws or actions by the higher authority. Third, they are not to implement any laws or decrees made by the higher authority that violate the Constitution, and if necessary, resist them” (p. 15).



This stuff goes back to the 1500's folks. If they did not back down then, I will surely not back down today.

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 5:15 PM  

The SJW's are merely the storm-troopers of the elites. They're the easily deceived and manipulated knuckle dragging morons among our class. If the cultural elites promoted screwing the pooch on the front lawn, the SJW's would do it while screaming "PROGRESS!".

The elites can't fool all the people all the time. They can only fool some of the people some of the time. Even after nearly thirty years of 24/7 brainwashing, they still have to FORCE it on the masses.

The SJW's are the only people they can fool all the time.

This is about reducing population. Homosexuality WILL be promoted in the controlled "culture".

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 5:50 PM  

"... As the Lutheran pastor observed, the issue is now as settled as abortion in the USA, which means it will now become a much bigger and more divisive political issue than before."


The elites ran the exact same game plan when they FORCED abortion on the masses decades ago in the early 1970's. They promoted "feminism" 24/7 and then had the Supreme Stooges declare abortion a constitution right without much real support from the majority of the population. This is the exact same scam.

What do all the following have in common?

Contraception
Abortion
"Feminism"
Homosexuality
Sterilization

This is all about reducing population levels. It was all outlined in the Jaffe Memo nearly five decades ago. We're being manipulated and managed.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales June 27, 2015 6:05 PM  

Can someone here give everyone here a list of establishments and companies that we can chose to boycott?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 27, 2015 6:12 PM  

This is all about reducing population levels.

That's not all it's about, but it's one of the main underlying goals. When you look at the various groups that have worked together down through the years to replace the worship of God with worship of Man, they all seem to have population reduction on the brain. Not always for the same reasons, but generally agreeing on the methods.

That doesn't mean they want war, or other messy ways to reduce the population, if there are other options. Most of them want to reduce it without putting their own hides in danger, and without destroying a lot of the goodies. After all, gaining a bigger share of the goodies for themselves is one of their motives, so there's no point in reducing the earth's population to one billion if you destroy 95% of the wealth and natural resources at the same time. But whatever they can do to reduce the population "peacefully" through programs like enforced sterilization, they're pushing it. Whatever reduces the numbers of annoying peasants so the great ones can stride the earth enjoying its benefits as they deserve.

Blogger M Cephas June 27, 2015 6:27 PM  

@kurt9

I don't believe the homosexuals in America want government out of marriage. They never did. A not-government-recognized marriage has literally always been available to them. They could have gotten married as many times as they wanted in private before the Supreme Court decision. Nobody else's worldview was ever pushed on them in that regard.

Your argument, the Libertarian one, makes no sense if it is about pushing worldviews.

They want government involved in their marriages, and for government to recognize and enforce their "marriages". Everyone already has the option of a Libertarian style, not-recognized-by -government marriage, to whomever or whatever.

The Libertarian position could only speak to getting rid of any tax payer funded spousal benefits, but that's never been what the battle has been about.

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 6:36 PM  

They elites are using the psychological disordered against the general population. They are waging war on the family because they want to drastically reduce population levels. They don't give a shit about the homosexuals. The homosexuals are merely a means to an end.

Blogger Thordaddy June 27, 2015 6:44 PM  

Ummm... Godfrey.... The "default elite" IS the Homodyke with a sprinkle of Jew to keep those vicious "pit bulls" of "ws" perpetually preoccupied.

The only defense against the mind virus of self-annihilation that is high IQ "white" male Liberaliism is God-ordained free will and ALL the high IQ "white" males of the HBDbent deny that white man possesses such a "thing."

For the white masses.... Annihilation is desired and thus inevitable.

Blogger M Cephas June 27, 2015 7:08 PM  

If destroying the family, and aborting babies is part of a population control, the black communities seem to be taking the biggest hit on that front.

Perhaps they were merely the testing ground.

Blogger JDC June 27, 2015 7:28 PM  

Aside from Harrison's statement, all LCMS pastors were sent a "talking points" memo to discuss with our congregations this Sunday.

Link: http://files.ctctcdn.com/980ec1fe001/1eed0198-5bbf-403e-873a-7a2858adfba5.pdf

No matter what the court has decided, the struggle over the future of marriage will continue. Discussion about the future of marriage and laws affecting the family will continue. The LCMS is ready to engage in this discussion and calls for all Christians to uphold the sanctity of marriage within our culture.

We will be proposing at our next congregational meeting to get out of the state sanctioning of marriage altogether. Funny...the gripes have come from people worried about what message this sends to the community. Some still think that we can "accept" them into a right understanding.

Our task is simple, "No matter what the court has decided, the struggle over the future of marriage will continue.
Discussion about the future of marriage and laws affecting the family will continue. The LCMS is
ready to engage in this discussion and calls for all Christians to uphold the sanctity of marriage
within our culture."

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 7:46 PM  

We're in a class war.

The ruling classes want to reduce worldwide populations. And yes, the blacks were the test case. Want to see your future? Then just look at what they did and what they're doing to the blacks.

Blogger dfordoom June 27, 2015 7:53 PM  

but upon second thought they have just stuck their fingers in their ears and are shouting LALALALALALALALALALA!!! when it comes to Islam.

American conservatives need to wake up to the reality that they have much more dangerous enemies than Islam. The enemies within your White House, within your Congress, within your Supreme Court, within your universities and within your media are the ones who intend to destroy you.

The supposed Islamic threat is being used (consciously and deliberately) by the elites to distract your attention from the one war that really matters - the culture war. Iran is not a threat. ISIS is not a threat to the US. Why do you think the media and the neocons want you to worry about Iran or ISIS? So you won't notice as they trash your society.

A good rule of thumb is that if the media and the neocons are shouting and pointing in one direction it's because something is happening in the other direction that they don't want you to notice.

Anonymous JRL June 27, 2015 7:56 PM  

Kurt9, I didn't see liberals pushing for it either.

Anonymous JRL June 27, 2015 8:03 PM  

Man that AA pic is creepy.

"If you please direct your attention to the screen for an important announcement...notice the intricate pattern of shifting colors...you may find it difficult to keep your eyes open...you are feeling sleepy...

Anonymous GreyS June 27, 2015 8:05 PM  

No, we don't have another pope. And we're not Sedevacantists, either. But we know that this pope isn't really a man of religion. He cannot be, as his Marxist ideology trumps anything he might learn from the Church.

The Catholic Church has survived bad popes before, so long as the faithful remember that THEY are the Church. Frank may have the buildings, but we have the faith. He'll pass on eventually and reap whatever reward he's earned.


Yes, yes-- seen it all before. Remarkably similar to the Catholic SJWs-- all emotion, getting all Vatican info/opinion through non-Church sources, never having read a single encyclical, while demanding that any current pope adhere to your personal American political opinion, then when he doesn't, lumping him into whichever political viewpoint you see as Enemy, even refusing to use his name and referring to him by a nickname which you think hurts him somehow. (chuckle) It's like holding up a Commonweal to a mirror.

Anonymous The other robot June 27, 2015 8:11 PM  

Trigger Warning: You might find this funny, or you might not:

Bruce Jenner's Cat

Blogger dfordoom June 27, 2015 8:12 PM  

If there's a silver lining, maybe it's that this will make it harder for people to equivocate and play both sides

It might actually convince American conservatives that the Republican Party and Big Business are not their friends but deadly enemies.

Anonymous Godfrey June 27, 2015 8:41 PM  

This is not a surprise. It was all outlined decades ago in the Jaffe Memo. What's next?

Open promotion of the homosexual life style on media and within government controlled education

Efforts to further financially burden families

Total government control of healthcare leading to promotion of sterilization, "free" contraception, "free" abortions programs and manipulations to reduce family size

Further efforts to postpone marriage among young heterosexual couples

Blogger Unknown June 27, 2015 9:22 PM  

As a Christian with LCMS membership, I was encouraged to read our synod's statement. I think in the near future we will clearly see the nominal Christians fall by the wayside, but the church of Christ will prevail.

Linda Katy

Blogger Unknown June 27, 2015 9:22 PM  

As a Christian with LCMS membership, I was encouraged to read our synod's statement. I think in the near future we will clearly see the nominal Christians fall by the wayside, but the church of Christ will prevail.

Linda Katy

Anonymous farmer Tom June 27, 2015 9:30 PM  

I appreciated the statement from the LCMS.

Here are a couple of others I've seen today.

Christian Missionary Alliance

General Association of Regular Baptist Churches

I've seen a couple others, still hunting for them.

Blogger CM June 27, 2015 9:42 PM  

I finally read something by Rachel Held Evans!

Was not impressed.

Blogger JCclimber June 27, 2015 9:50 PM  

Using this opportunity to clean out my Facebook friends list.
11 gone so far today. If they care enough to change their profile picture to a rainbow, that means they care enough to throw me under the bus in the ongoing culture war.
Some of them have been my friends for more than 30 years.

The funny thing is, not all my FB friends who are gay or lesbian bothered to change their profile picture. So they stay as friends.

It's a little sad, yet is also liberating. If this keeps up, I might get my friends list below 400.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 June 27, 2015 10:03 PM  

The churchian response to abortion has been to sit on their hands lest the IRS get them. The response to this will the same of course. The only way to settle this now is through revolution and I can't see that happening. Monsanto had the job of making the country obese, lazy, tired, and unable to resist any evil the devil hands down through his government and that mission has been accomplished. The military is enervated and wearing high heels, the young men are drugged and fed nothing but propaganda and the adults are fat, immoral, and constantly told that thinking certain thoughts will get them arrested. The deed is done and the U.S. is finished.

Anonymous Stout Trident June 27, 2015 10:34 PM  

"My husband and I were discussing this yesterday. Voting is meaningless. The courts (oligarchs) will impose whatever laws, regulations, etc. they want regardless of the will of the people."

But you don't complain about all court decisions...just the ones you don't like. Shut up, hypocrite!

Blogger jaericho (#107) June 27, 2015 10:59 PM  

An lcms member here and I too would like to plug Issues, Etc... It's a fantastic program.

Blogger JCclimber June 27, 2015 11:21 PM  

Discussed this at length with my two pastors. I hope and pray that when that day comes, my denomination will choose God over 501c3 status. And see what membership levels shake out over the particular issue.

Blogger Corvinus June 27, 2015 11:26 PM  

No, we don't have another pope. And we're not Sedevacantists, either. But we know that this pope isn't really a man of religion. He cannot be, as his Marxist ideology trumps anything he might learn from the Church.

The Catholic Church has survived bad popes before, so long as the faithful remember that THEY are the Church. Frank may have the buildings, but we have the faith. He'll pass on eventually and reap whatever reward he's earned.


@Ragin' Dave
"Sedevacantist" is a defective term that has essentially come to mean anybody (like me) who believes that the heads of the Vatican starting with John XXIII and Paul VI are heretics and cannot possibly be real Popes. (On top of that, there's the fact that all the sacraments were mutilated in 1968, so they don't even have real priests and bishops either.)

Here's a good site that explains their heresies, including this one in particular that covers the difference between a "bad Pope" and a heretical antipope, and this one which explains why maintaining that Francis is a valid Pope is untenable, using Church magisterium.

@GreyS
Sigh... I warned you, but I guess since Rule #2: SJWs Always Double Down, you were bound to mouth off more...

Yes, yes-- seen it all before. Remarkably similar to the Catholic SJWs-- all emotion,

Rule #3: SJWs Always Project.

getting all Vatican info/opinion through non-Church sources, never having read a single encyclical,

Rule #1: SJWs Always Lie.

while demanding that any current pope adhere to your personal American political opinion, then when he doesn't, lumping him into whichever political viewpoint you see as Enemy, even refusing to use his name and referring to him by a nickname which you think hurts him somehow. (chuckle) It's like holding up a Commonweal to a mirror.

Yeah, well, if you want to follow an apostate who constantly praises Jews, Muslims, and even queers, and urges European governments to be "charitable" to the Afro-Muslim hordes and let them invade, then knock yourself out.

Anonymous Obvious June 27, 2015 11:47 PM  

Man it's fun watchin' y'all argue over which is worse, Muslims or Gays.What a bunch of yellow shit whiners.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 28, 2015 12:00 AM  

The victorious faction within Supreme Court has made homosexuality like race, legally.

The Christian response to anti-white coercion on race was a change of heart. Christianity is anti-white now. Christians have inner freedom, like Winston Smith at the end of 1984, because they have submitted so completely that there is no inner resistance to the Party.

The sanctification of sodomy is moving ahead in the same way.

This is going to do harm to Christianity. It's obvious, objectively, that this is bad news.

The arbitrary emperors harmed paganism. How do you maintain the dignity of your religion when the emperor Hadrian is using state power and coercion to promote the cult of the great god Antinous, whose claims to a place in Olympus seem to have been a sexy smile and a bottom like jelly on springs? It's impossible.

Pederasty of that sort was not native to Latin culture, no more than "gay marriage" (no such thing) is native to traditional American national culture. Some pagan authorities then condemned the corruption, just as some Christian authorities are condemning the corruption now. All this is good but not enough; the taint still sticks; too many go along.

Where there is such flagrant cause for shame, sooner or later there will be actual shame, and weakened attachment to the tainted religion will follow. It has been like that with other corruptions that modern (Judeo-) Christianity has submitted to, and this is not going to go any better.

And no, it is not different this time. We have not arrived at an unprecedented era when corruption imposed by a vile elite that thinks of itself as "sophisticated" really is enlightened and without consequences. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Blogger Ragin' Dave June 28, 2015 12:53 AM  

"Yes, yes-- seen it all before. Remarkably similar to the Catholic SJWs"

Seriously? You gotta go for the low blow?

all emotion, getting all Vatican info/opinion through non-Church sources,

Because ordained Catholic Priests and Bishops are so "non-Church", right?

never having read a single encyclical, while demanding that any current pope adhere to your personal American political opinion,

Actually, I'd prefer it if he adhered to Church doctrine rather than Peronist Marxism, but hey, that's just me.

then when he doesn't, lumping him into whichever political viewpoint you see as Enemy, even refusing to use his name and referring to him by a nickname which you think hurts him somehow. (chuckle) It's like holding up a Commonweal to a mirror.

Are you always this shallow and self-righteous, or is this a special event just for me?

Blogger Corvinus June 28, 2015 12:55 AM  

Are you always this shallow and self-righteous, or is this a special event just for me?

@Ragin' Dave
I wouldn't take it personally. He has a history of being a snarky Novus Ordo SJW dweeb who fires at traditional Catholics more than anybody else.

Blogger Ragin' Dave June 28, 2015 1:56 AM  

Ah, well, that explains it then. Thanks for the heads-up.

Blogger bob k. mando June 28, 2015 2:04 AM  

126. Obvious June 27, 2015 11:47 PM
Man it's fun watchin' y'all argue over which is worse, Muslims or Gays.What a bunch of yellow shit whiners.


you know what we all agree is worse than gay muslims?

SJWs. like you.

Blogger Sgt Polite June 28, 2015 3:08 AM  

This take at Ace of Spades HQ is interesting: "US bishops have spent decades advocating liberal big government programs (ObamaCare, as long as they are exempted and amnesty spring to mind) all while enjoying an exemption from its effects or sharing in the burden of the costs via their tax exemption.

Well they are going to get a taste of what they've been building and they aren't going to like it one bit."

Much like the supposed "Christians" on my facebook feed celebrating gay marriage, I wonder what their opinions will be once the legal assaults begin.

Anonymous FP June 28, 2015 3:31 AM  

Heh, for a hoot see law professor Ann Althouse's take from ten years ago she re-posted via her kid's blog:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2015/06/its-easy-to-distinguish-polygamy.html

"A polygamous marriage, however, puts a group of persons in a position to claim more economic benefits than the traditional heterosexual couple. That doesn't appeal to our sense of fairness."

Its all about that fairness you see and tradition! Tradition that the court just slaughtered irrationally.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 28, 2015 3:51 AM  

Probably most of the rainbow flag Christians will be fine with the persecutions of imputed homophobes, just as they are with the persecutions of imputed racists. They conform their consciences to the mass media, to what seems to be safe socially, to their economic advantage and to raw power -- entirely, without exception, with no inner reserve.

But this is not the time to blame Christians. This is not their fault, though the harm and the corruption will fall on us all no matter whose fault it is.

There are six Christians on the court, and four of them, that's a two thirds majority, voted against this. It this was a Christian rather than a Judeo-Christian court, this would not have passed.

Though very many Christians support this, they do so because of advantage and the effects of power, which at the top are not really Christian any more, and they also do because of relentless mass media domination, which again is not from Christians. (Joe Biden was truthful on who exerts the lion's share of the influence on "gay" issues and other issues of social and racial transformation.)

When Christian leaders address the American legislature the way Benjamin Netanyahu does, as he pleases, with or without the permission of the American president, and receiving dozens of standing ovations even if he is scolding the American President, then I'll be more willing to blame Christians. Because then there will be indications that they are in charge and they ought to be more responsible.

But for now, the true face of American Christianity is probably Crystal O'Connor of Memories Pizza. People like this aren't causing the corruption. They are upright. Unfortunately they are also powerless.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 28, 2015 3:52 AM  

Wicked and perverse generation, you cannot have me or anyone else.

You witches are without peer upon SCOTUS.

We belong to the Lord, may He deliver me from every evil. I'm sick and of a weakened constitution in post americant times where health care is no care death care.

Now is the day of salvation, forget being gay or whatever, trust Christ above all else.

No one can make you happy or complete.

Anyways, there is a deeper distraction at hand when the tides change its possible LGBT will be targeted for extinction. Afterall, who else throws off (reference to the film Equilibrium) lock step obedience than eccentric purple hands - who else, what else next will play conquer and divide over non-issues in a time where 100 million + americants are utterly unemployable?

Whats next?

Futureless futures will never be happy with all the acceptance, now endorsement of gay marriage among other things.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 28, 2015 3:54 AM  

God can grant the powerless power of not.

Power means nothing when we are all going to die, minus the morbidity, I'm just stating that life is short, time flies, straighten up our personal priorities.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 28, 2015 3:59 AM  

edit; "or not."

God can grant the powerless power or not.

Anonymous The other robot June 28, 2015 12:47 PM  

Possibly the most powerful way to fight this is to spread the word about the gay germ theory.

People these days are obsessive about cleanliness. If Homosexuality is caused by germs (and the arguments are very strong) people will be turned off quickly, I think.

Blogger 1sexistpig2another June 28, 2015 2:53 PM  

There are six Christians on the court, and four of them, that's a two thirds majority, voted against this. It this was a Christian rather than a Judeo-Christian court, this would not have passed.

I can call myself anything I want, that in itself doesn't make me what I call myself. These judges that voted to legitimize sexual deviancy (while at the same time pretending that marriage can be something other than what it is) have publicly denied the teachings of Christianity and cannot in good faith publicly call themselves Christians. The SC is not a Christian court.

Blogger 1sexistpig2another June 28, 2015 3:04 PM  

LES June 27, 2015 1:48 PM

Well said. In a righteous nation, all legislation is based on morality. As a nation turns a way from morality, so does it's laws. When immoral laws and perverted legislators govern the land, the laws become worthless and carry less weight in the hearts of those governed.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams


Indeed.

Blogger VFM bot #188 June 28, 2015 5:22 PM  

[T]he true face of American Christianity is probably Crystal O'Connor of Memories Pizzz....They are upright. Unfortunately they are also powerless.

Why are they powerless, when the majority of people in this country are on their side? How could this powerlessness be addressed and remedied? How can a minority have the power to abuse the majority? Why is this our present reality? How might we change it?

Anonymous some dude June 28, 2015 5:56 PM  

Delta Air Lines similarly rubbed our (the employees) noses in it. They've been doing it for years, actually. Several times a week.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 28, 2015 6:03 PM  

The magic 8-ball says: Better not tell you now.

(In other words, I don't want to get off-topic.)

I only started pointing to the numbers because one of the commenters here basically said: this is all about the Catholics; they ruin everything. And the votes say that's not true.

Blogger Sam L. June 28, 2015 6:09 PM  

This will be the 21st century's Roe v. Wade case.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite June 29, 2015 2:17 AM  

THOMAS, J., dissenting:

The majority’s musings are thus deeply misguided, but at least those musings can have no effect on the dignity of the persons the majority demeans. Its mischaracterization of the arguments presented by the States and their amici can have no effect on the dignity of those litigants. Its rejection of laws preserving the traditional definition of marriage can have no effect on the dignity of the people who voted for them. Its invalidation of those laws can have no effect on the dignity of the people who continue to adhere to the traditional definition of marriage. And its disdain for the understandings of liberty and dignity upon which this Nation was founded can have no effect on the dignity of Americans who continue to believe in them.

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