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Wednesday, July 08, 2015

A time of Romans

I guess we won't be seeing the New Zealand library-troll around here again anytime soon.
Internet trolls face up to two years' jail in New Zealand under a controversial new law which bans “harmful digital communications”. The law will help mitigate the harm caused by cyber-bullying and give victims a quick and effective means of redress, supporters said. Under the Harmful Digital Communications Act in effect from this week, anyone convicted of “causing harm by posting digital communication” faces two years in prison and a $50,000 (NZ) (£6,500) fine, while businesses face fines of up to $200,000. Harmful communications can include truthful as well as false information.
The Romans always win. In fairness to Phoenician, he had the sense to knock it off when I started going after Andrew Marston.

Labels:

56 Comments:

Anonymous ticticboom July 08, 2015 11:38 AM  

You expect that law to be applied equally and fairly? That's optimistic of you.

As an aside, I don't know any Kiwis personally, but everyone I know who does work in the Pacific Rim loathes them and loves Aussies.

Blogger pyrrhus July 08, 2015 11:44 AM  

A totally vague restriction on free speech--NZ is becoming Europe.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 08, 2015 11:44 AM  

Harmful communications can include truthful as well as false information.

Can't even speak the truth.

Blogger darkdoc July 08, 2015 11:47 AM  

And this will include those hundreds of SJW tweets designed to get people fired? Right? Anyone? Why is it so silent all of a sudden?

Anonymous Alexander, #10 July 08, 2015 11:50 AM  

It's quite a fantastic time we live in. The argument used to be that there was a balance between the right to free speech and the right to privacy. It seems, we solved the problem by getting rid of both.

Wordplay aside, I just don't see the ascendance of SJW barbarism leading to sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, fresh water systems and public health!

Anonymous Alexander, #10 July 08, 2015 11:51 AM  

That being said, I'm not one to let the enemy burn the old rule book and then demand to be judged by it. No tears for Phoenicians.

Blogger Salt July 08, 2015 12:03 PM  

“causing harm by posting digital communication”

Feelings, you hurt my feelings...

Blogger Nate July 08, 2015 12:18 PM  

"Harmful communications can include truthful as well as false information."

holy shit. Nazi much?

Anonymous Stephen J. July 08, 2015 12:18 PM  

"I don't know any Kiwis personally, but everyone I know who does work in the Pacific Rim loathes them and loves Aussies."

Why? I know nothing of either beyond being a fan of both Peter Jackson and Hugh Jackman.

Anonymous A Visitor July 08, 2015 12:24 PM  

That's absurd. Thoughts on the NYSE tech glitch Vox?

Anonymous kfg July 08, 2015 12:29 PM  

I scratched New Zealand off my post retirement, ghost site list in 1994 when they enacted a mandatory helmet law. Doesn't surprise me a bit that they want matching jack boots.

Blogger YIH July 08, 2015 12:31 PM  

OT - BREAKING: New York Stock Exchange shut down over tech glitch.
A glitch... Yeah, right.

Blogger Salt July 08, 2015 12:34 PM  

Chk this site out, realtime maping of cyber attacks... supposedly.

Anonymous Roundtine July 08, 2015 12:37 PM  

That is an amazingly broad rule. Harm will equal bad feels within 5 years.

Anonymous Roundtine July 08, 2015 12:39 PM  

New York Stock Exchange shut down over tech glitch.
A glitch... Yeah, right.


Why do people want to believe it is an attack? These glitches happen every week in individual stocks. It's a much bigger concern if it isn't an attack.

Blogger YIH July 08, 2015 12:48 PM  

Rooundtine:
Why do people want to believe it is an attack? These glitches happen every week in individual stocks. It's a much bigger concern if it isn't an attack.
Total NYSE halt - everything down.
WSJ down too.

Blogger YIH July 08, 2015 12:51 PM  

Forgot link. Total blank, all activity down as of 11:38am EDT.

Anonymous Cheddarman, vile faceless minion 0187 July 08, 2015 12:51 PM  

New Zealand is well down the road of post Christianity.

Anonymous Cutlure War Draftee #151 July 08, 2015 12:52 PM  

@Roundtime-Five years? I give it a lot less. This law is an open invitation for abuse. This reminds me of the Judge Cal storyline from 2000AD. You have heard the law! The penalty for disobedience is death! Or a $50K fine, and internet death!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139574/2702253-insane.png

Anonymous Book_Girl July 08, 2015 12:59 PM  

Might be an attack, based on this seemingly prescient tweet by Anonymous last night:

https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/618626955433349120

Anonymous Jason July 08, 2015 12:59 PM  

New York Stock Exchange shut down over tech glitch.
A glitch... Yeah, right.


Someone at the NSA has been catching up on he last season of Person of Interest.

Anonymous Jourdan July 08, 2015 12:59 PM  

This is why even small concessions to the Left have to be opposed.

When the N.Z. Govt. began maniacally including Maori ritual in everything, no one complained.

When the N.Z. Govt. switched its currency to bi-lingual, with the Maori language, no one complained.

When the N.Z Govt. and courts completely re-interpreted the long-established and astonishing clear Waitangi Treaty between the British Settlers and the Maori, no one complained.

When the N.Z. Govt. proposed outlawing their own flag and replacing it with a black flag with a leaf, a Maori symbol and also, ridiculously, a symbol of their leading rugby squad, it was in-cllooooooo--sive.

And, now, with little comment and trouble:

Ancient Anglo rights of speech are outlawed completely in a matter of days.

Anonymous Stickwick July 08, 2015 1:00 PM  

NorthernHamlet: Can't even speak the truth.

You know the saying, truth hurts.

One gets the sense this probably means something like divulging true, but potentially damaging private information, e.g. doxxing someone, posting that they own firearms along with a home address, or posting embarrassing private photos. I can kinda, sorta see the point. The problem, of course, is that it's probably pretty broadly defined and the potential for abuse is significant.

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 08, 2015 1:18 PM  

Stickwick - I bet you the first use will be against someone who mentions a minority group in less than favorable light.

Anonymous Wiccapundit July 08, 2015 1:24 PM  

5. Alexander, #10:

Nice "Life of Brian" reference.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 08, 2015 1:24 PM  

Stickwick,

That's a good point I hadn't considered concerning private information.

Blogger Alexander July 08, 2015 1:32 PM  

In theory yes. In theory it's a reasonable point.

But I'm betting that 'person X has firearms and here's the address' doesn't count because all right thinking people consider that the public's right to know in the name of safety...

... whereas say, publicizing that the new neighbor is a tranny with a drug problem would obviously be an invasion of privacy of the worst kind of oppression and destruction of the right to dignity...

Anonymous Stickwick July 08, 2015 1:44 PM  

I agree with you guys. The intent of including truthful information in the law is one thing, but the application is another. This is why a wise person once said the following (paraphrasing): when you're writing a law, a good guideline is to imagine your worst enemy executing it.

Anyway, It'll be interesting to see how it works out.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 08, 2015 1:50 PM  

Is this a reference to Carthage?

Blogger Alexander July 08, 2015 1:51 PM  

That was 3rd Generation Social Justice Warfare. 4th Generation is 'imagine writing the law such that your enemy, if in power, can interpret it any damn way he pleases, constrained not at all by language, custom, or intent.'

The law must explicitly forbid certain applications and be watched carefully even so, or those applications will inevitably come to pass.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 08, 2015 1:54 PM  

"This is why a wise person once said the following (paraphrasing): when you're writing a law, a good guideline is to imagine your worst enemy executing it. "

That is just such an Anglo-Saxon thing to say.

Blogger Alexander July 08, 2015 1:57 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Alexander July 08, 2015 1:57 PM  

Heh, true. Both that it's an Anglo-Saxon thing to say it's a good guideline, and an Anglo-Saxon thing to say the person saying such is wise.

Blogger Alexander July 08, 2015 1:58 PM  

A more up-to-date version for our multicultural climes and times.

when you're writing a law, a good guideline is to imagine your worst enemy executing you.

Anonymous Soga July 08, 2015 2:00 PM  

Laws only mean something if people hold their rulers to account for these laws. What happens when people don't lift a finger against a ruler having his way with the law like Genghis Khan with a timid, downcast Chinese virgin?

The answer... we are seeing in progress right now.

Blogger Valtandor Nought July 08, 2015 2:43 PM  

I'm a New Zealander and have just read the Act, but I'm not a lawyer. This Act doesn't scare me as much as all that for several reasons.

One, it won't catch the common or garden commentator who criticises another's position in derogatory terms.

Two, when it comes to revealing "sensitive personal information", the argument would have to be that the information is personal (public interest considerations would come into play here), that it's sensitive, and that the communication was what revealed it.

Third, the law does call for objectivity. It's not enough for a complainant to claim to have been harmed; the Approved Agency (whoever they're to be) and the Courts have to consider whether a reasonable person would consider himself to have been harmed by that communication.

Fourth, although the process may be apparently quick and straightforward, one must still complain to a bureaucratic organisation, and may only go to court after that.

Having said that, the thing I don't like is the idea that what constitutes acceptable or unacceptable online communication will come down, in the final analysis, to the opinions of judges. A good statute ought, in my opinion, to be objective enough that anyone reading it will know what actions it prescribes and what it prohibits. I look at this one and think that I'll have to see what precedents get set by District Courts and appellate courts.

Anonymous JI July 08, 2015 2:52 PM  

Wow, sounds like a perfect law to finish the stifling of free speech in NZ.

Blogger Sioux July 08, 2015 3:00 PM  

Have a daughter living in NZ with her Kiwi hubby and baby. They are terribly uninformed on SJW issues, and believe hook-line-sinker in the Nanny state. I understand them a lot better now that I realize it's all about being "kind" and not hurting anyone's feelings (impossible). Seeing how telling the Truth is included in this law as a NO-NO, let the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ROLL !

Blogger James Dixon July 08, 2015 3:12 PM  

Second try. In addition to the NYSE, United has ground all of it's planes today due to a "technical issue".

Anonymous Grinder July 08, 2015 3:18 PM  

This is a completely bad move by NZ. I am disappointed that you seem to not have seen the possible implications for all writers and bloggers and a little surprised that it was your minions who spotted it first.
It is not Nazis who are drafting these laws, it is anti-white Marxists. However, when White Nationalists retake control of their nations, they can hardly be blamed for using against enemied all of the same tools that were forged and implemented by those who wanted to stifle all dissent and opposition to white genocide. Nothing is too extreme to these pigs, even digging up the bodies of their ideological enemies and banishing from their former places of eternal peace like Rudolf Hess and soon N.B. Forrest and Jefferson. Many did not even make it that far.
They keep setting precedents that they do not think through. The weeping will come later but Obadiah's prophecy was already made that not even stubble shall remain of the Esau Edomites.

Anonymous Grinder July 08, 2015 3:38 PM  

36. Blogger Valtandor Nought July 08, 2015 2:43 PM
I'm a New Zealander and have just read the Act, but I'm not a lawyer. This Act doesn't scare me as much as all that for several reasons.

As a New Zealander, how attached are you to your flag? Maybe you have seen the ruckus surrounding the Confederate flag in the US. There are a great many who would say that they are harmed by the continued display of the flag. Once the number reaches a tipping point (not a majority opinion, but a sufficient number to allow the Marxist overlords to plausibly claim that they are looking to end the suffering of people by removing it, it disappears. Marxists aren't impressed by demonstrations of outraged citizens who feel their heritage trampled. Is it so farfetched that the formerly cannibal Maoris balloon their numbers and then object to the Union Jack on your Southern Cross flag? And if so, how far a stretch is it there is sufficient support by downtrodden (in their own minds) groups who will use legislation like this improperly? Just look USA's Constitution in which judges are still able to find new meanings from words written more than two centuries ago (queer marriage ok according to the intent of the Founding Fathers)

Anonymous Quartermaster July 08, 2015 3:47 PM  

"Harmful communications can include truthful as well as false information."

Give the leftist nature of the Kiwi government, you knew truth would be trolling. didincha?

Blogger Maple Curtain July 08, 2015 4:09 PM  

"Harm."

What is harm? Who defines harm? Hint: those with the biggest guns/army/police force.

So, ya, "harm" is hurt feelings, and that is the end of free speech.

Anonymous KBT July 08, 2015 4:12 PM  

"causing harm by posting digital communication"

Well, at least they wrote the law in a clear and unambiguous manner.

"When the N.Z. Govt. began maniacally including Maori ritual in everything, no one complained."

Really? I'll have to Google that when I get home. Sounds entertaining. Here in California one state politico tried to get feng shui involved in government building designs.

@#5 Just follow the gourd! No, wait, the shoe! Wait...

Anonymous KBT July 08, 2015 4:16 PM  

In case anyone doesn't believe me:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Yee-calls-for-feng-shui-in-building-standards-2826275.php

Anonymous zen0 July 08, 2015 4:22 PM  

Like other totalitarian creeds, Nazism was unwilling to leave any part of German life unorganized or to allow any group or individual to contract out. German men and women were to be as accountable for their thoughts and feelings as for their actions, and no claim of individual conscience was to be allowed to withstand the demands of the Party and the state.

History of the 20th Century Issue no50
Hitler's Germany
Allan Bullock pg 1376

Blogger Valtandor Nought July 08, 2015 4:24 PM  

Grinder,

I'll flag (heh) your question about the flag as a tangent, but respond to it briefly by saying that the current debate around whether to change our flag has a lot more factors than Maori opinion.

You're right that the assessment of an opinion (e.g., of whether a given online statement or image is "harmful") as reasonable or unreasonable has its own problems. For example, it relies for its strength and moral force on the notion that the great majority of people are "reasonable". Therefore, "harm" can come to be defined by popularity: the less popular a statement, the more credible the claim that it is "harmful [to a reasonable person in the complainant's position]".

The appeal to objectivity in the form of the "reasonableness" standard is one of this law's saving graces. I still have reservations about it. Time will tell.

It will be interesting to see whether a negative comment about a group of people or a behaviour is ever construed as a "harmful communication" against a particular individual who self-identifies as a member of that group or as a practitioner of that behaviour. If so, and if that determination is upheld on appeal, it will show that any appeals to objective standards in the Act are merely smoke screens, and that the Act is neither more nor less than a harsh censorship tool.

Blogger Ben July 08, 2015 6:09 PM  

FYI, yama is still at it. He popped up on Jeremiah's deviantart page commenting on John C Wright cover art and being his usual douchey self. That guy needs a better hobby or something...

Blogger M Cephas July 08, 2015 6:27 PM  

Cyber bullying seems to have surpassed regular bullying in terms of consequences.

Anonymous zen0 July 08, 2015 10:19 PM  

45. KBT July 08, 2015 4:16 PM

In case anyone doesn't believe me:


Oh believe me, KBT, I believe you. If you can stop it, use this info.

Here is a sample of what you might expect.
(Odd. It reminds me of something I read in History of Strategy by Creveld. Or was it somewhere else? Anyway, it was along the lines of "humans do not fully understand how to exploit an environment until they use it for warfare". Humans, eh?)

Hong Kong, along with other South Asian countries, is known for its deep and long-lasting faith in feng shui. The people there practice feng shui in every way of their daily life.

There is a feng shui war in Hong Kong’s Central district, the glamorous heart of the city noted as Asia’s leading financial area. It is also renowned for an auspicious site according to feng shui. Some conflict among the buildings in this area is unavoidable in order to see more benefits of good feng shui. The Bank of China building started the war by having the outer appearance of sharp edges like a sword by using glass as an exterior cladding. Accordingly this building became notorious for its dreadfully sharp energy. Then the HSBC building, located nearby, put a crane shaped like a cannon on the top of the building in order to fight against the harmful energy of the Bank of China. The other buildings in this area also installed reflected glass, dark curtains and other feng shui devices to block out the threatening energy from those two buildings.

Anonymous zen0 the Terrified July 08, 2015 10:23 PM  

Feng Shui is just another method of performing micro-aggressions

I feel unsafe just thinking about it.

Anonymous TroperA July 08, 2015 10:45 PM  

Salt:

Chk this site out, realtime maping of cyber attacks... supposedly.


Kind of reminds me of the war room from Wargames. Or this map. It seems to me that people were more apt to cling to traditionalism when nuclear bombs were being thrown around like parade candy. There was a sense that we needed to think of the world beyond this one, since this world could be blown all to pieces tomorrow.

I wonder how much of the current SJW nonsense can be blamed on people no longer having an existential threat to occupy their minds....

Anonymous My Dead Gramps July 08, 2015 11:30 PM  

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to black knight.

Anonymous Discard July 09, 2015 7:30 PM  

Valtandor Nought: You're relying on the enemies of civilization to be reasonable?

Anonymous Jim Milo July 09, 2015 10:15 PM  

Nova Scotia has a similar law. It will eventually be struck down as unconstitutional. An aging socialist actress tried to have a kid arrested for 'bullying' after he posted her appearance on 'The L Word.'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lenore-zann-l-word-actor-turned-mla-alleges-cyberbullying-1.2461743

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