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Sunday, July 19, 2015

Another kick of the can

The EU and the IMF managed, with extreme difficulty, to kick the can one more time than anyone thought they would be able to. But the cans keep getting bigger and heavier. And in the meantime, Paul Craig Roberts points out that the financial powers' savage treatment of the Greeks, and determination to wring them dry in order to avoid paying out on the losing derivative bets by their banks, is teaching countries outside the system that there is nothing in it for them.
When a member of the EU itself is being looted and driven into the ground by its compatriots, how can Russia, China, and Iran expect better treatment? If the West has no good will toward Greece, where is the West’s good will toward Russia?

The Greek government was forced to capitulate to the EU, despite the support it received from the referendum, because the Greeks relied on the good will of their European partners and underestimated the mendacity of the One Percent. The Greek government did not expect the merciless attitude of its fellow EU member governments. The Greek government actually thought that its expert analysis of the Greek debt situation and economy would carry weight in the negotiations. This expectation left the Greek government without a backup plan. The Greek government gave no thought to how to go about leaving the euro and putting in place a monetary and banking system independent of the euro. The lack of preparation for exit left the government with no alternative to the EU’s demands.

The termination of Greece’s fiscal sovereignty is what is in store for Italy, Spain, and Portugal, and eventually for France and Germany. As Jean-Claude Trichet, the former head of the European Central Bank said, the sovereign debt crisis signaled that it is time to bring Europe beyond a “strict concept of nationhood.” The next step in the centralization of Europe is political centralization. The Greek debt crisis is being used to establish the principle that being a member of the EU means that the country has lost its sovereignty.

The notion, prevalent in the Western financial media, that a solution has been imposed on the Greeks is nonsense. Nothing has been solved. The conditions to which the Greek government submitted make the debt even less payable. In a short time the issue will again be before us. As John Maynard Keynes made clear in 1936 and as every economist knows, driving down consumer incomes by cutting pensions, employment, wages, and social services, reduces consumer and investment demand, and thereby GDP, and results in large budget deficits that have to be covered by borrowing. Selling pubic assets to foreigners transfers the revenue flows out of the Greek economy into foreign hands.

Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West. Consequently, median family incomes are declining. Governments cover up the decline by underestimating inflation and by not counting as unemployed discouraged workers who, unable to find jobs, have ceased looking. By not counting discouraged workers the US is able to report a 5.2 percent rate of unemployment. Including discouraged workers brings the unemployment rate to 23.1 percent. A 23 percent rate of unemployment has nothing in common with economic recovery.

Even the language used in the West is deceptive. The Greek “bailout” does not bail out Greece. The bailout bails out the holders of Greek debt. Many of these holders are not Greece’s original creditors. What the “bailout” does is to make the New York hedge funds’ bet on the Greek debt pay off for the hedge funds. The bailout money goes not to Greece but to those who speculated on the debt being paid. According to news reports, Quantitative Easing by the ECB has been used to purchase Greek debt from the troubled banks that made the loans, so the debt issue is no longer a creditor issue.
And so the world spirals closer to widespread violence. Having repeatedly ruled out the possibility of change through the ballot box, what else does that leave? Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Greeks haven't resorted to politics by other means yet.

ISIS has already brought the War in Iraq home to America. It seems highly unlikely that they will be the only ones to do so.

These actions by the global financial community smack of either desperation or provocation. I can't tell if they actually want war - as Gen. Butler would say they do - or if their position is so precarious that they are willing to run the risk of war just to buy a little more time before the crash.

Either way, it doesn't bode very well for the rest of us.

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130 Comments:

Anonymous ? July 19, 2015 6:47 AM  

Doesn't "allowing them to borrow more money even though they have no ability to repay what they already borrowed" count as "goodwill"?

Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West.

Oh please! Unregulated naked capitalism does not exist in the West and has not existed for many decades. This is just more bullshit in which the predictable results of socialism are blamed on capitalism in order to support of call for more socialism.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan July 19, 2015 6:57 AM  

Everything I look at clearly indicates they are very intentionally pushing for outright war.
I am not sure why you don't seem to see this as clearly.
I think the off-planet tech may be a factor, but even with that element missing the push for war is obvious I think.

Anonymous Giuseppe the Kurgan July 19, 2015 7:01 AM  

Everything I look at points very clearly to them intentionally trying for outright war. I am not sure why you don't seem to see it this way too.
I think maybe the off-planet tech is an element in it, but even removing this view from the equation, I think the observable events clearly show this all the same in an obvious way.

Blogger Shimshon July 19, 2015 7:02 AM  

I thought the IMF was out of the "bailout" game for Greece. Did they sign on to the latest installment?

Blogger Joe A. July 19, 2015 7:05 AM  

Nothing like unregulated naked capitalism has been operative anywhere on the globe in the twenty-first century. Such a silly assertion to make in the midst of an otherwise informative analysis.

Anonymous p-dawg July 19, 2015 7:11 AM  

@Joe A: Totally agree. Came to make the same point.

Blogger Rantor July 19, 2015 7:18 AM  

While it is true that we suffer from oligarchies colluding with banks, to me the most important point is that Tsipras ran on a platform promising to escape debt-slavery. In the end he never even had an inkling, and appears to have done zero work towards figuring out how to bankrupt Greece and leave the Eurozone. He also went into negotiations accepting EU frameworks and EU demands as the basis for discussion. When you let your opponent define the terms, you have already lost.

This was bound to happen, for as I and many have pointed out, Tsipras is a statist, international-socialist. He has no personal beliefs that would help him take Greece out of debt-slavery and into a new era of independence and wealth.

Anonymous Steve July 19, 2015 7:25 AM  

? - yes, I'm wondering which Western countries Mr Roberts thinks practice unregulated naked capitalism, by which I assume he means free markets and minimal government.

We have highly state-regulated capitalism, with high taxes and bloated welfare systems.

Even Switzerland - the most economically liberal country in the Western hemisphere - spends about 20% of its GDP on welfare.

The EU certainly isn't about unregulated capitalism. It has always been, from its inception as the European Coal and Steel Community, about corporatism. Today it issues thousands of Directives and Regulations and ECJ judgements every year, instructing the EU's 503 million citizens on such diverse matters as:

* How many hours a week you can legally work
* Which ingredients may be used in cat food
* What types of lightbulbs one may buy or sell
* Whether restaurants may serve olive oil in jugs or dishes
* Manufacturing standards for dishwashing gloves

And so on. And so on. And so on. Every new rule another little straw in the great big wicker man of pettifogging red tape that looms menacingly over the EU economies.

And Greece didn't get into this mess because of unregulated capitalism. They got into this mess because they - eagerly - joined the Euro, then used the resulting cheap credit to run up unsustainable debt.

I feel sorry for them, but they were determined to stay in the Euro, so they have to take the consequences.

Anonymous Heywood July 19, 2015 7:27 AM  

Why all the loan-pandering? The Greeks were happy to run a unlimited deficit state propped up mostly by cooked books and a never-ending stream of loans. It is regrettable that the GlobEUlists have managed to hand out another one of those instead of finally forcing an exit and default, but all the talk of disrespecting democracy is just stupid. If you take loans the creditors own you. What is this, some inner city ghetto where the critters know that other people will forever be paying their bills? Cry me no tears about the plight of the poor downtrodden innocent Greeks. The only tragedy here is that the taxpayers of the productive EU states where forced to give their money away yet one more time just so that Greeks can go right on retiring at 55 and GlobEUlist bankers don't have to take any haircuts. As for Greek "fiscal soverignity"... come on. It's like 28 yo latte pyjama boy loudly declairing his independence from Mommy's basement. It's not the Greeks who should be up in arms over this latest travesty - it's the Germans, the Dutch, the Scandinavians and all the others who will be picking up the tab so that Greek social spending can keep up and bankers can go right on cashing in on their bonii.

Anonymous clk July 19, 2015 7:32 AM  

How about 1 day a week ... or if thats not possible, one day a month, you post something positive.... surely theres some good news somewhere on the planet you can find and share....

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 7:34 AM  

I respectfully continue to disagree. This "crisis" was utilized in a purposefully phoney and hyped manner to allow that.

If I may put it in my preferred Parliamentary terms:

I would also ask my right honorable friends, and I say this with the hope that it will not be taken by them as any sort of bragging or self-congratulation, that it was precisely my statements of how the affair would turn out at the end of the day which were precisely accurate, while that of the learned experts, the WSJs, the Bloombergs, the FTs of the world, and their so-called alternative brethren at sites such as Zerohedge, now read in retrospect as humorously over-wrought alarmism.

Further, I disagree with the honorable member on his prediction of outcome: far from being unstable or likely to lead through politics-by-other-means, the outcome is precisely the very sort of new stability our ruling class seeks, has sought and is imposing at increasing speed.

In short, the Wilsonian-Hamiltonian alliance, firmly in charge of the United States since hashing out their differences arising out of the New Deal and solidifying during the War--producing the political and economic combine that no less an authority than President Eisenhower himself clearly identified and warned of--has, having conquered the new world, extended its vision to the old.

The EU and its institutions are in that sense as star-spangled as the 4th of July.

Expanded markets, expanded demand, a permanent reserve pool of labor from the teeming Third World, political institutions replaced with regulatory and administrative bodies, a unified media solidly behind the ruling ideology, a vast entertainment complex of the same sort, and, most important of all:

The whole-sale replacement of the only possible alternative ideology--the old Anglo idea of ordered liberty, tradition, restrained government and trade free but bound by national or imperial interest--through the actual physical removal of Anglos and other adherents of that outdated idea and their openly celebrated replacement with Latins, Africans and Asians more used to a ruling class ruling nakedly and openly in its interest and its interest only.

The debt our host refers to is entirely illusory: if the debtors go along with the programme, they will be bailed out and all is forgiven; if they cause a problem, the debts will be used to impose suffering until the programme regains its lustre.

Anonymous zen0 July 19, 2015 7:39 AM  

8. Heywood

The Greeks were happy to run a unlimited deficit state propped up mostly by cooked books and a never-ending stream of loans.

And who helped them cook the books enough to qualify for membership in the European Union at great profit to themselves?

Blogger D. Lane (#0067) July 19, 2015 7:40 AM  

How about 1 day a week ... or if thats not possible, one day a month, you post something positive.... surely theres some good news somewhere on the planet you can find and share....

What part of Vox day is evil don't you get?

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 7:42 AM  

> Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West.

As others have noted, where in the west has "unregulated naked capitalism" exist?

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 19, 2015 7:43 AM  

In the dark inner sanctum of their fastness, the struldbrugs of the EU have laid their plans.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 19, 2015 7:45 AM  

This IS good news.

Just not for Greeks.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 7:45 AM  

> The debt our host refers to is entirely illusory:

To the country, yes. To it's citizens, no. They live in continually worse economic conditions, while continually paying more of their meager income to the banking system. Unable to save or build for the future, unable to make or enforce their own laws, they become slaves in all but name.

Blogger The Deuce July 19, 2015 7:49 AM  

Roberts' overall point is right, but how bad does your eyesight need to be to look at the EU and the ECB and see "unregulated naked capitalism," or to think that Greece would be helped by more of the pensions and social services they bought with the EU loans that they can't pay back in the first place?

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 19, 2015 7:50 AM  

In the dark inner sanctum of their fastness, the struldbrugs of the EU have laid their plans.

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 7:58 AM  

but how bad does your eyesight need to be to look at the EU and the ECB and see "unregulated naked capitalism," or to think that Greece would be helped by more of the pensions and social services they bought with the EU loans that they can't pay back in the first place?

Suppose he knows this is not true. (I know nothing of PCR except for what Vox posts here from time to time)
What rhetorical purpose does it serve to introduce this distraction?
We see that it is the capitalists who have to revert to defense while the socialist can retain his position of intellectual authority.

Anything else? Any other possibilities?

Again, the analysis is not on the merits, just as a rhetorical device.

Blogger Jew613 July 19, 2015 8:13 AM  

I do not think the elites want war. Though their actions are leading to revolution. I believe the modern western elite is so distant from those they rule over, living in bubbles surrounded by other members of the elite and their servants, that they can't see where their actions are leading. It is akin to the French aristocracy before the revolution. Every effort at changing course blocked by narrow interests that thought they would always hold power.

Anonymous joe doakes July 19, 2015 8:15 AM  

clk - this IS good news. World War III has been postponed a bit longer. You still have time to stock up on whiskey, bullets and SPAM. Feel better now?

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 8:24 AM  

@Jew613

I think that is correct, except today's ruling class is, shockingly, even more arrogant and blind than the worst of the Bourbons. (Nor nearly as capable of producing beauty or art).

As Talleyrand said of them, we can say of today's ruling class: "they remember nothing, they learned nothing, they have forgotten everything."

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 19, 2015 8:30 AM  

" Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West."

Same reaction here - where are these places?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 19, 2015 8:37 AM  

Just shocking that a socialist sold his people into slavery, shocking I tell you.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 19, 2015 8:40 AM  

Can unregulated capitalism even exist? Has it ever?

Blogger D. Lane (#0067) July 19, 2015 8:48 AM  

Can unregulated capitalism even exist? Has it ever?

IIRC, there was something close to that immediately following the American Revolution. Needless to say, it was quickly put down and replaced by garden variety cronyism.

Blogger Rantor July 19, 2015 8:50 AM  

Let us not forget Goldman Sachs role, they refinanced 2.8 B to get it off the books and turned it into Greek debt of about 5 B, while pocketing .6 B. Great work for the unethical. And no, I don't think the Greeks understood what magic banker man was doing to them. That was the work to get them into the Eurozone.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 8:51 AM  

Curses. has --> does and it's --> its. I hate it when I do that. But sometimes my fingers get ahead of my brain and my eyes don't catch the mistake.

Blogger LibertyPortraits July 19, 2015 8:57 AM  

"Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West."

Where can one find an example of unregulated "naked" capitalism in the West in the 21st century? Citation needed, Mises books need to be mailed to this author.

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 9:02 AM  

Can unregulated capitalism even exist? Has it ever?

That's not the author's point. He isn't asking it in the libertarian sense, which is the same sense that a communist asks "does communism even exist? Has it ever?", i.e. a purist arguing that their unrealistic theory isn't wrong, it just hasn't ever been tried properly yet.

His point is that the financier class has been unshackled from any pretense of public control through reasonable regulation and oversight, and, further, such regulatory and governmental power is now either powerless or in actual alignment with these market capitalist forces.

That's all he means by it.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 9:02 AM  

> Citation needed, Mises books need to be mailed to this author.

Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal would work too, But both would be rejected immediately.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 9:04 AM  

> That's all he means by it.

Sure it is. But that's not what he chooses to say. One might almost suspect either an ulterior motive or brainwashing.

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 9:05 AM  

@ Rantor

And no, I don't think the Greeks understood what magic banker man was doing to them.

Oh, man, c'mon. I mean, please.

Of course the Greeks knew full well they could not qualify for Euro membership without some serious cooking of the books. That is precisely WHY they hired Goldman Sachs, that was the entire point of their retention.

Everyone knew this: the Greeks, the Germans, all other EU member states, the U.S., hell, I'm sure there at least 20 guys who deliver deli sandwiches on Wall St. who know this.

Anonymous p-dawg July 19, 2015 9:16 AM  

@NorthernHamlet: Of course it *exists*. We just call it "The Black Market" in order to scraify it for the rubes. For example, why is marijuana the #1 cash crop in states where it's not legal? Unregulated capitalism.

Anonymous Sam the Man July 19, 2015 9:17 AM  

I think folks are missing the forest as they bossily point out that the trees identified as birch are actually beech. True but you are missing the point.

The fundamental point was the logical thing to do was to realize Greece was in a very bad position, and that if they wanted them to remain in the EU they had to write down a lot of debt. There was no other way to clear the problem, the debt is beyond the means of being paid.

The other alternative was to let the Greeks go bankrupt, get out of the EU, repudiate their debts and start over again as a poor second world nation.

Instead the solution was to paper over the problem once again, in a manner that is sure to result in even more economic decline. Yes for a period of time the banks will appear whole, and the sale of the various Greek assets will make it appear for a while that the creditors are have some possibility of generating a revenue stream but at the price of absolute poverty for the average Greek.

Now folks are forgetting Golden Dawn. The left, the center and right-center of politics have betrayed the Greeks, what is left is the far right so to speak. Golden dawn was put down by semi-illegal means once, be sure the Greeks know that even if no one is saying it in print. At some point a similar political movement will arise again, but this time they won't be as nice. Folks that have seen their father and uncle die because they could not afford cheap medicine do not attend to small niceties. As the far left betrayed the folks it will have to be the far right. At some point the Greeks will decide to go sharply nationalist, repudiate all the debt and take back anything they supposedly sold, while throwing out all the immigrants. That is now inevitable, just as the Turks found the Greeks are not really all that manageable as a servile people.

At which point we will see if NATO is controlled by the bankers or not, do they send in troops or not and does a guerrilla war such as Greece saw in 1944 to 1949 begin again.

All the signs indicate war, as to when , well it took Germany about 15 years of bad times to elect a far right guy, we are 7~8 years into this mess.

Anonymous p-dawg July 19, 2015 9:18 AM  

scraify = scarify.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 July 19, 2015 9:31 AM  

"...But the cans keep getting bigger and heavier."
Au contraire, "the cans get smaller, and hold progressively less water.
On the OTHER hand.
"Once you open a can of worms...."
It's "the can's" previous intended contents that get bigger, and heavier, with nothing but a crushed-beyond-recognition can to PUT them in.
CaptDMO

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 9:38 AM  

@Now folks are forgetting Golden Dawn.

Given the Greek experience in WWII, no matter how great GD's political programme is nor how good and correct its tactics are, it will never garner anywhere near enough support to win or take power as its symbolism is simply too closely identified with German National Socialism.

To the average Greek, even one who might otherwise be sympathetic to GD's ideas and solution, openly identifying with them is openly identifying with a national enemy.

It's like asking Mexicans to support a fantastic right-wing group that has adopted a variant of the Stars and Stripes as its symbol.

I have no idea why GD made this stupid decision, as it is entirely unnecessary, but I have received enough first hand reports on the ground from Athens and Thessolonika to know that this connection with German National Socialism symbolically is turning off almost all possible support.

Greece needs an answer, but GD is not it. Besides, any group that makes an error that fundamentally stupid is probably not going to be able to actually deliver on its promises anyway.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2015 9:52 AM  

"Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West."

*shudder* These ancient canards.

Unregulated, "naked" capotalism hasn't been tried in Europe since WWI.

Anonymous zen0 July 19, 2015 10:09 AM  

21. Jourdan

I think that is correct, except today's ruling class is, shockingly, even more arrogant and blind than the worst of the Bourbons.

Arrogant, yes. Blind, not so much. I am beginning to suspect that they don't mind a little turmoil here and there, and sometimes encourage it, because the modern state is not as vulnerable to revolution as those in previous times. Plus, any major outbreak of insurgency simply results in growth of state power in reaction.

The banker elites don't care one way or another, because there is always a way to make money off turmoil. Who financed the Bolshevik revolution?

Obama goes out of his way to set groups of people against each other. Elites import masses of immigrants to destroy social cohesion so that no large opposition bloc can be formed.

Pretty soon they will have total control of all transactions. If you put all your money in cash or PMs, they will just outlaw cash and PMs as currency.

They don't care.

OpenID xsyq July 19, 2015 10:09 AM  

>His point is that the financier class has been unshackled from any pretense of public control through reasonable regulation and oversight, and, further, such regulatory and governmental power is now either powerless or in actual alignment with these market capitalist forces.

If that was his point he should use the correct word. Capitalism is a system of economics, not a system of government. Plutocracy or Oligarchy more accurately describe the current situation.

Blogger Salt July 19, 2015 10:26 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sad Puppy July 19, 2015 10:27 AM  

34. Sam the Man July 19, 2015 9:17 AM

All the signs indicate war, as to when , well it took Germany about 15 years of bad times to elect a far right guy, we are 7~8 years into this mess.

I thought everyone knew by now that Hitler was a lefty?

Blogger Salt July 19, 2015 10:27 AM  

surely theres some good news somewhere on the planet you can find and share....

Milo's hair is still fabulous.

Anonymous rubberducky July 19, 2015 10:37 AM  

I agree with everyone above about his point that unregulated capitalism as proven a failure in the 21st century. I stopped reading him right there, and went and got some coffee. Sheesh. I really, really resent blaming capitalism for the failures of our oh so wonderful political economies.

Anonymous Sam the Man July 19, 2015 10:40 AM  

Sad puppy,

Yes, I know the NAZI's were national socialists, but of a distinctly different kind then the far left socialists/communists. I think among folks such as hang out here the general idea is that politics is more of a circle with freedom/libertarians at one point in the circle and at the other hard right and hard left sort of come together.

In nay case what comes next will not be of the far left socialist/ internationalist/ communist type. but something very much of a nationalist bent. Either way it will not be democratic but authoritarian.

Anonymous roversaurus July 19, 2015 10:47 AM  

@Jourdon
"His point is that the financier class has been unshackled from any pretense of public control through reasonable regulation and oversight, and, further, such regulatory and governmental power is now either powerless or in actual alignment with these market capitalist forces. "

Then his point is idiotic. The "financier class" is highly regulated. Fools clamor for the regulation and the financier class gladly creates its own regulation. This whole mess could not have been accomplished without a great deal of regulation. If the force of government were withdrawn from the various banking deals in "support" of Greece and those who loaned money to them it would all collapse in an instant. It is *precisely* the *reasonable* regulations you seek which enable this monstrosity.

Blogger Jim July 19, 2015 10:53 AM  

I think folks are missing the forest as they bossily point out that the trees identified as birch are actually beech. True but you are missing the point.

But we've seen this forest before. We're just wondering why today's guide can't tell the difference between deciduous and coniferous trees.

Anonymous RedJack #22 July 19, 2015 10:54 AM  

Jew613

They want war. They feel they need war.

How often in a week do you see a message from someone saying "There are to many people on this planet! We need to reduce population! We need to reduce economic output! For the children! (Which you shouldn't have by the way!)"

Even the current Pope is saying we need to cut the population by 3 or 4 billion people.

How do you think they plan on doing that? Contraception? Abortion? Statists always go for broke and start killing people.

Anonymous Orville July 19, 2015 10:55 AM  

Sure it is. But that's not what he chooses to say. One might almost suspect either an ulterior motive or brainwashing.

I've always been a bit suspicious of PCR and his pontifications since he too was an policy wonk for senators and later the Reagan Treasury department. Though to be fair he has not imbibed the Neocon koolaid these last 15 years.

Blogger JartStar July 19, 2015 11:05 AM  

Capitalism is not the same thing as the free market. We've had capitalism and it has grown increasingly corrupt.

Anonymous Mike M. (vfm #315) July 19, 2015 11:10 AM  

I think the EU leadership is following the path the French, British, and Russian governments took in the First World War. They are proceeding with a bad policy because a change will cost them their jobs.

If Greece left the Eurozone, how long does Portugal stay in? Spain? Italy? They would all benefit from throwing the Euro out, devaluing their currency, and thus lowering the prices on export goods. Germany would take a face shot, but I think everybody else would come out ahead.

But this will crack the EU wide open. And the Bullies in Brussels would have to get jobs. So they'll kick the can until they can't....which will make the ultimate reckoning much worse.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 11:16 AM  

Golden Dawn is Greece's BNP. The UKIP equivalent will arise in short order. I will laugh if Varoufakis is head of it.

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 19, 2015 11:16 AM  

Unregulated naked capitalism,

Its not capitalism when bankers keep profits but socialize risk.

How about 1 day a week ... or if thats not possible, one day a month, you post something positive.... surely theres some good news somewhere on the planet you can find and share....

Did you miss the story of Ellen POA going down in flames? That was a positive win for gammergate & western civilization. If you can not find anything positive here perhaps you should look up the word schadenfreude, which Vox provides heaping helpings of. VD has been covering victories in the war against CHORFS & SJWs

the struldbrugs of the EU have laid their plans. I thought it was the Goldstienburgs

Golden dawn...At some point a similar political movement will arise again, but this time they won't be as nice

Golden dawn was tossing 3rd world savages out of hospitals that had gotten so full they wouldn't accept Greeks. If a Vlad Tepes rises and puts bankers on pikes they will recover as well as Iceland

as its symbolism is simply too closely identified with German National Socialism.

The Greek key is everywhere in Greece from courtrooms to Hellenistic ruins. Are you talking to ethnic Greeks or banker tribe?

Anonymous Dave July 19, 2015 11:16 AM  

The pope said "we" need to "cut" population by 3-4 billion?

Is he asking for volunteers? Will the RCC be the model? Oh that's right...they officially are against contraception and abortion.

Blogger Jourdan July 19, 2015 11:19 AM  

@roversaurus -

No, wrong. Of course the financial sector is heavily regulated. The author knows that, I know that, you know that. Which is why your lame attempt to force a literal reading of both the author's comments and my post is just silly.

When people say "they should be regulated," or "they are not regulated" they don't literally mean there are no regulations on the books. People are pretty much aware the SEC exists, there are state laws and regs, there is such a thing as the IRS, there is a Dept. of the Treasury that has regs.

Everyone already knows the powerful have used and are using regulations to keep their competitive advantage, innure them with immunity, drive out competition, protect their private losses, ensure public monies to cover losses.

Good God, man, the meaning of the author and myself could not be any plainer. In fact, I'm not even going to bother to spell it out for you because if you really DO need such a basic point spelled out for you and you somehow think your post above is some sort of clever "gotcha!" post, then you're well beyond any help I could provide.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2015 11:29 AM  

"Given the Greek experience in WWII, no matter how great GD's political programme is nor how good and correct its tactics are, it will never garner anywhere near enough support to win or take power as its symbolism is simply too closely identified with German National Socialism. "

I think Greeks already have a mortal enemy alread and it's not the Germans.

Blogger Doom July 19, 2015 11:38 AM  

How well armed are the Greeks? My guess is that the reason you haven't seen revolt is because pitchforks only worked in a time of swords. My .45 pistol, considered an emergency only combat weapon and then as backup, can kick the heck out of a pitchfork. It has 17 rounds, when one is in the tube, and actually works better at closer range, but further than a pitchfork can reach. And a single .45 per... doesn't have to kill. So, if the Greeks don't have reliable arms, the revolutionary to statist death toll would, at least from the front rows, seem a bit too steep. Then again, the Greeks aren't exactly known for being all that interested in, you know, working for it.

Hey, maybe they could slave themselves to a combat group. Any old white S.A. merch outfits still running? Put them all together, and let them do it. The Greeks seem to fall for anything, and everything. And whites still in S.A. are looking for a place to go. Looks like a twofer, to me.

Blogger Hunsdon July 19, 2015 11:47 AM  

I think this thread really needs more comments about the sentence where PCR said unregulated naked capitalism.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 19, 2015 11:53 AM  

but how bad does your eyesight need to be to look at the EU and the ECB and see "unregulated naked capitalism,"

From a marxist point of view, the definition of Capitalism is simply that the means of production are controlled by a small oligarchy. Banksters and their crony government ministers would certainly qualify. As to the "unregulated" part, well, as we've seen in the US and the EU, governments are increasingly unregulated. Constitutions, laws, and other long-standing mos maiorum no longer apply to the ruling class.

Anonymous Bz July 19, 2015 12:00 PM  

Tsipras is in an untenable position and I wouldn't be surprised to see his government go. Unfortunately, the next gang will be in a no better position. They too are expected to square the circle. They too will fail, and their successors, until there is a change in direction. Will democratic elections provide sufficient mandate to do this? Apparently not, as we have seen.

Hence I would be as unsurprised to see a military coup in a while if things get chaotic enough, followed by the required default on debts and exiting the euro.

As a bonus, receiving a set of generals would be an interesting circumstance for Brussels to handle. Oh, the gnashing of teeth! The dramatic proclamations! The walk outs!

Anonymous Jack Amok July 19, 2015 12:02 PM  

I do not think the elites want war...they can't see where their actions are leading. It is akin to the French aristocracy before the revolution. Every effort at changing course blocked by narrow interests that thought they would always hold power.

I think this is right, though some of them may recognize the dangers (but then are compelled to look away). The neo-elites are not the self-sacrificing kind -they got where they are by buying off groups with other people's money, not their own. Now that they're running out of other people's money, none of them want to be the sucker who ponies up the dough so they veto each other's proposals. As Mike said " They are proceeding with a bad policy because a change will cost them their jobs."

The violence that will result from their can-kicking is obvious enough to us, but consider the problem from a bankster/crony point of view. Changing course requires either sacrificing your own power, or forcing your rival power-grubbers to sacrifice theirs. Sacrificing your own power is a non-starter because you know your compatriots would just gobble it up and keep on driving for the cliff. Forcing them to sacrifice their power requires grabbing more for yourself first, which is indistinguishable from staying the course.

And none of them have been strung up.

Changing course is impossible for them, and so far the dangers (to them) of staying the course haven't materialized, so why should we expect anything different.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2015 12:04 PM  

It's bullshit. If people went lassez faire and full on Austrian economics, no way that these things could happen, mostly because many things cease to become profitable without the threat of force.

Anonymous Peter Pan July 19, 2015 12:05 PM  

These actions by the global financial community smack of either desperation or provocation. I can't tell if they actually want war - as Gen. Butler would say they do - or if their position is so precarious that they are willing to run the risk of war just to buy a little more time before the crash.

They're not thinking about war... they're thinking about money. It's an oversight. They don't look at the possibility of war because it's too ugly, and the world changed after WWII.

But guess what?

It's changing back.

Anonymous Bz July 19, 2015 12:11 PM  

Reading the PCR article, I'd also say it would be a good thing to diversify the global financial infrastructure quite a bit. Why do we tolerate asset freezing and financial blockades driven by any malcontent who can bribe a judge or politician in Washington? Give us our sovereignty back.

Anonymous Seneca July 19, 2015 12:11 PM  

I'm sure glad to discover that banks are operating in unregulated naked capitalism mode. Now I'm going to go back to reading the thousands of pages of regulations from the CFPB, HUD, Federal Reserve, SEC, and states, etc telling me who can originate loans, what words can be used in advertising, how many people of what races and family statuses have to be featured in the advertisements, what kinds of fees can be charged, the amount of those fees that are allowed, what kind of relationships a lender can have with other service providers, such as appraisers, who can talk to the appraisers, when they can talk to them, how often we have to review them and how many women and minorities they are supposed to employ, etc.

That naked, unregulated capitalism, sure comes with a lot of rules, agencies, and paperwork. But I'm sure those agencies don't do any regulating. No, none at all.

Anonymous Rolf July 19, 2015 12:29 PM  

The purpose of scaremongering with the phrase Unregulated naked capitalism is to set up a false dilemma with a straw man on one side, and the welcoming, open arms of something the writer prefers on the other (either because of ideology or prospect for personal profit).

I have to give him credit for acting ability, attempting to say such a thing with a straight face, though. It's such a bald-faced, belly-laugh-inducing, shameless bit of patently false crap that it makes the rest of the article instantly turn from apparently thoughtful analysis to satire. (Well, to be honest, the mention of Keynes in the paragraph before tipped me off that it was about to go all to shit, but it wasn't clear which direction of stupid it would head for; but prior to that it was mostly spot-on).

Blogger Jack Ward July 19, 2015 12:37 PM  

Sitemeter? Gone? Or, just sick?

Blogger Wayne Earl July 19, 2015 12:49 PM  

To all the capitolsm purity whiners, kindly STFU. You are doing little more then betraying your soft, Lilly white underbelly that you wishfully believe to be a suit of hardened armor.

The greatest market force in existence is strength, the currency of which is violence and death. 

The whole world is the market, every person, every government, every group, every institution. The only escape from the market place is death or salvation, if Christ be true.

And Christ is the only real escape. We've disussed morals and ethics on non biblical foundations before.

Why the fuck would I pay you one dime of currency to extract from you that which I want if I could not easier kill you and take the thing? The deterrent to do so must be greater then my ability to deliver violence (or perceived as such) - the police, the rule of law, your military, your long range missiles, all are factors in the market, all determine price.

The market value of any good or service is exactly that amount which will be paid for it, weather that currently be in dollars, yen, time, or blood. 

Violence, death, and mortality IS the open market. nature red in tooth and claw, and this bitch will have commerce.

The market is, always has been, and always will be completely and totally open, because all things in this mortal world exist only within This Mortal World. This means that only God exists outside of it, and it should clue you all into who operates and owns The Open Market.

OpenID mattse001 July 19, 2015 12:51 PM  

A couple of points:
1) I'm not sure this has been solved even in the short term. I was surprised by the complete capitulation of the Greek government (and the lack of riots by the citizens), but there's no reason to believe the Greeks have become responsible. The more sober creditors must know this, and they might not accept the surrender. They may be resolved on a more permanent solution by kicking Greece out finally.
2) "Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West."
WTF is this guy smoking? Where in the West has unregulated capitalism been tried?!? I will not stand for this historical revisionism that exculpates the interventionist central planners. I will not allow capitalism to be declared a failure until it has actually been tested.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 1:03 PM  

@Wayne Earl,
Shut up, fagget.

Anonymous Godfrey July 19, 2015 1:14 PM  

A banker controlled fiat monetary system that debases the stored capital of the masses isn't capitalism.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2015 1:21 PM  

Wayne Earl is really stupid. Has more ever been said with less meaning?

Protip: property rights are a necessity for the free market, i.e. voluntary transactions. If it's taken by force, it's not voluntary.

Blogger Zaklog the Great July 19, 2015 1:33 PM  

Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West.

Wait, he's blaming unregulated capitalism? I have never heard anything stupider in my life. Where in the world is there anything approaching unregulated capitalism in the 21st century? There's no such animal. Now, I admit, that if it were tried it might have problems I have not foreseen, but it is untried. Leftists are the stupidest creatures to have ever walked this planet.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 1:35 PM  

Okay despite the migraine, i will discuss Wayne Earl's faggotry.

Because it's bothering me.

Do you,Wayne Earl, know why are there only a few species that will ever prey on humans? Do you know why there are so few predators of even livestock, in areas where humans settle? It's because we take care of the problem. We band together, soft and weak individually as we are, and use our giant brains and co-ordinated intelligent teamwork, to root them out.

And we do the same to two-legged predators.

And if you want to say that the people here do not know how to deal with the people you seem to admire (I can't be bothered to read your whole idiot shrieking to see if you identify as the strong man you so ardently desire sexually), I invite you to try to implement your evident belief. Either on society in general, or on any regular here individually.

Hell, even on my wife, who is pushing 60 and crippled by cancer treatment. Senor Bersa will do her talking for her.

Anonymous Stilicho #0066 July 19, 2015 2:11 PM  

"Yes, I know the NAZI's were national socialists, but of a distinctly different kind then the far left socialists/communists"

No, they merely disagreed over who got to be in charge of the socialist utopia.

Blogger Rantor July 19, 2015 2:15 PM  

@Jourdan, what do you think the Greeks were told when they hid 2.6B in debt, turning it into 5B in debt to get in the Eurozone? They were promised prosperity and rainbow colored unicorn farts and somehow the debt would be manageable. Then they pocketed .6B and got the ECB to pay off the debt when it was obvious Greece couldn't pay. The people who accepted such lies are the same class of idiotic and clueless losers who just thought that becoming 400B in debt was better than being 300B in debt. The solutions being forced on Greece can't work and they area idiots for accepting them.

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 2:16 PM  

@Rolf The purpose of scaremongering with the phrase Unregulated naked capitalism is to set up a false dilemma with a straw man on one side, and the welcoming, open arms of something the writer prefers on the other (either because of ideology or prospect for personal profit).

Look at the attractiveness of the alternative when stated this way:

Unregulated naked capitalism vs. regulated well-dressed socialism

An interesting marketing exercise would to reverse the attractiveness of the left vs right in that expression.

i.e. something like:

Vibrant living capitalism vs moribund dying socialism...eh. not cheery or gloomy enough. Where's a marketing guru when you need one?

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 2:19 PM  

How about "sociopathic, failed, moribund socialism"?

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 2:41 PM  

How about "sociopathic, failed, moribund socialism"?

Good, but it needs some 'sex' in there to match the 'naked' of the other....tits are always good....but we want sagging tits, not perky tits...

How about "moribund, over-teated socialism?"


Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 2:47 PM  

How about "sociopathic, failed, moribund, impotent socialism"?

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 2:50 PM  

maybe leave out moribund, as that is sort of covered by impotent.
Tits'are always interesting. Dongs are never interesting.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2015 2:51 PM  

Tits'are`, new character in the Disney Star Wars.

Anonymous Rolf July 19, 2015 2:52 PM  

The left say they like "vibrant," and "freedom of expression," and they claim they care. Deeply.

So how about "Vibrant, flexible, capitalism where individuals are free to chase opportunity and express their creativity and unique abilities," versus "a bureaucratic, committee-driven, stifling, rigid, standardized regulatory straight-jacket that only the largest corporations can possibly navigate, where all individual expression is stamped out to avoid lawsuits, offense, and difference."

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it's accurate enough.

How about "Unaccountable, plutocratic, totalitarian socialism?"

Eh, they won't believe it no matter how accurate it is.

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 2:58 PM  

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it's accurate enough.

Marketing Rolf, Marketing. We aren't looking for truth, we are trying to sell something.

We need a liar....


OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 3:00 PM  

OT: the CAPTCHA just had a sandwich next to a Dunkin Donuts cup. Makes sense--marketing in CAPTCHA with pay per eyeball.

Blogger Factory July 19, 2015 3:01 PM  

I think what happened is obvious:

GREECE: Screw you brussels. The people wont take your shit any longer. Here is a proposal we can live with (hands proposal nearly identical to ECB demands).

BRUSSELS: Take your proposal and shove it. Heres one even worse for you.

G: The BRICS new bank has offered to take on financing us, provided we default on our debt to you. Seems like a good deal to us, but we thought we would try to be 'honorable' first. Anyway...bye.

B: Pull that shit and we reduce you to radioactive cinders when we attack Russia.

G: You win. Where do i sign?

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales July 19, 2015 3:03 PM  

"Unregulated naked capitalism, has proven in the 21st century to be unable to produce economic growth anywhere in the West."

Wow. The asshole who wrote this article seems like a socialist weasal.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 19, 2015 3:08 PM  

I don't think the Greeks would have much difficulty getting arms if they want them. Olives for AK's via Uncle Vlad's friends in the Orthosphere seems plausible to me.

Also The Golden Dawn has rather high police and probably military support too. Such support has allegedly been reduced because of the political machinations of the Greek Left (or the murder depending in who/what you believe) but that may or may not be true and those factions certainly have arms.

Also if Greece has a junta to kick out the bankers, unless the US gets involved there is nothing the EU can do about it. The Greek military is smaller than the German one but only by a margin and the Germans simply can't soak the casualties, they haven't the will or equipment.

US involvement is what the bankers are counting on to get their way and it is possible under the auspices of NATO , using an attack on an ally as as a pretext

But its a big risk since it risks Russian involvement that could go very badly, very fast . I suspect a few dozen Russian missiles with conventional or fuel air warheads like the big fuel air boomer everyone says they saw last year in the Ukraine would take the wind out of German sails.

Also note modern Russian missiles are certainly accurate within minute of factory or minute of bank (university, food distribution center, capital building, you get the picture) and they might have enough air superiority for bombing as well.

So at this point its up the the Greeks and how they handle it.


Anonymous roversaurus July 19, 2015 3:11 PM  

@Jourdan


When people say "they should be regulated," or "they are not regulated" they don't literally mean there are no regulations on the books.


Then people shouldn't use those words if they don't mean them.


Everyone already knows the powerful have used and are using regulations to keep their competitive advantage


Then I would suggest advocating greater regulation is a bad idea.
That claiming a lack of regulations is the problem, is in fact, wrong.
When the regulations and the institutions of those regulations create and enable the corruption, saying there is no regulation and implying the need for regulation is fairly counter productive.

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 3:19 PM  

Wow. The asshole who wrote this article seems like a socialist weasal.

That's it!

Weasel Tits!

hmmmmm....

Unaccountable, weasel-titted socialism
tired, weasel-titted socialism
????, weasel-titted socialism

Maybe something from Column 1 of Shakespeare Insult Kit to class it up a bit...

tottering, weasel-titted socialism

closer, closer...

Free Naked Capitalism vs Tottering Weasel-titted Socialism

Now we are getting somewhere....




Blogger Jew613 July 19, 2015 3:23 PM  

Jack amok, the worst part is how much blinder he modern elites are verse the French aristocracy. At least king Louis XVI saw the danger and attempted reform, though he was blocked at every step by the parlements. None of the current elites are even trying to avoid the coming catastrophe.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 19, 2015 3:27 PM  

What Wayne is saying here is in the long run power is truth. Does anyone actually disagree with that or are they just pissed because he foolishly seems to have conflated power with voluntary markets?

To remind folks there was a considerable part of recent history in which a totalitarian state with no market system to speak of could pretty easily have annihilated the US and Europe. They nearly did several times by accident or design.

Now sure markets with high cooperation, high honesty and minimal regulation plutocracy work better at producing wealth than command and control ones . Such markets are rare and usually don't last because they either fail on some levels and people try various fixes or more often because people are well people and want advantage for themselves or their tribe or other group This is human nature.

So to paraphrase Rumsfeld, we work with the economy we have no necessarily the theoretical one we want and getting all upset because different groups have different preferences is futile. Deal with what ones has or use power to make it the way you want if you can.

Anonymous EH July 19, 2015 3:28 PM  

ALL of the deficits run by the Greek government (and then some) since 2008 have been due to the usurious interest rates to roll over short/mid-term debt. If just the Greek bonds held by the ECB in 2011 had been refinanced at the rate given to the big banks, the Greeks could have expanded spending during the recession while at the same time retiring over a third of outstanding principal and would have a GDP at least 20% greater than it is today.

The usual narrative is a lie. Greeks work more hours per capita than do the Germans. Greeks have real freedom despite foolish laws, the Germans are slavishly obedient to bureaucracy. The Germans have effectively looted the rest of the EU with ECB policies. The Germans never paid back the "loans" they extracted from Greece during WWII. The loans to Greece were with money that never existed in the first place, at rates that were blatantly manipulated to the banks' profit. If Germany doesn't take responsibility for its government and bankers' fraudulent maneuvers over the past decades, it will pay a far worse price in the future even than Greece. The Greeks are not a peaceful people.

It is in situations like this I ask myself: "What would Genghis do?" (Though Phillip or Alexander might be more fitting in this case.) Allowing for modern circumstances, I think he'd start by charging high-level banker that has been involved with every crime imaginable: fraud, theft, terrorism, rape, murder, conspiracy, blackmail, war crimes. Some of these charges might even be true, though that isn't necessary. Officially declare the ECB a terrorist organization. Repudiate all debt in ECB hands. Call in Interpol, accredit snatch teams as diplomats in Brussels, Berlin, and anyplace else they might be needed. Offer bounties. Ram judgments through Greek courts against the creditors and file liens on everything owned by the bankers and their banks. Issue convictions in absentia. Get Israeli-style assassination teams in place. Get the Swiss to seize the accounts of corrupt Greek ex-leaders and their cronies. Send hundreds of thousands of the most fiery Greek patriots to the creditor nations as "refugees", (perhaps using the merchant marine) covertly direct them to seize or burn banks' headquarters. If (when) the news media puts out anti-Greek propaganda, charge them as conspirators and declare them terrorist organizations. Get covert Russian help in crashing securities markets and banking computer systems, and get a commitment to Russian UN SC veto of war. Evacuate Athens to Italy using the merchant fleet. (Or Constantinople, if they're really feeling their oats.) Declare war only after assets are in place to wage 4GW, but begin with decapitation strikes, assassinations and "guerrilla blitzkrieg" on communications, utilities, military aircraft and armories in the creditor nations. Burn cities by hand if necessary.

Actually, Greece needn't do all these things, just make their enemies believe that they are willing to burn the world to the ground rather than submit. (Which, based on my time in Crete and Exarchia and watching weeks of student riots in Athens, I think is in fact the case.)

Blogger Feather Blade July 19, 2015 3:29 PM  

There are to many people on this planet! We need to reduce population! We need to reduce economic output! For the children!

The part that I find most amusing about this is these are the same people who flip out when you refuse to vaccinate your kids. A good pandemic would achieve all of their population reduction goals, but somehow they just can't remove the artificial disease controls and let nature take its course.

It's as if they want all life, and means of living, and all means of death under their control.

OpenID simplytimothy July 19, 2015 3:37 PM  

@EH

Informative, thanks.

Anonymous Grinder July 19, 2015 3:45 PM  

There are rules and regs in our system, sure, but they are mostly just barriers to entering the market for would be competitors. For the biggest capitalist players, the rules and regulations are bent, broken and ignored whenever they get in the way of what they want to do.
The elites
seem to be aove the laws that the rest of us are subject to.
.
If someone went and robbed a dozen banks and was caught on the last job, most people would not think that his offer to pay back the money he took on the last job as a just punishment. The bankers haven't even been made to pay that much. How is that not closer to de facto unregulated naked capitalism than anything else?

Anonymous Grinder July 19, 2015 3:52 PM  

Just because the option to act as if in an unrestricted capitalist system is not available to most of us because we lack the political clout and influence over judges and legislators does not make this any less capitalist just as Canada is no less a monarchy just because I have no legal route to become king myself. We are serfs in a globalist judeo-capitalist empire divided into separate satrapies ruled by governors selected by the elites, not voters.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 19, 2015 3:52 PM  

Because, by definition, capitalism requires that you EARN your profits. True, it lets you keep them, which is its major sin according to the Lefterati, but capitalism requires that you earn them, not steal them.

Being handed total immunity from prosecution for your crimes, as long as you're a fucking banker, does not make you a capitalist, albeit they may be capital crimes you're committing.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales July 19, 2015 3:54 PM  

"It's as if they want all life, and means of living, and all means of death under their control."

Sounds like Darkseid and his never ending quest for the anti-life equation.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales July 19, 2015 3:57 PM  

@ScuzzaMan

Explain to him that the cronies he speaks of are capitalists when it comes to making and keeping their money, but since they have no balls or character, are socialists when it comes to the inherent risk involved in making and keeping said money.

Anonymous Grinder July 19, 2015 4:01 PM  

95. Anonymous EH July 19, 2015 3:28 PM

I agree with this. The Greeks have so far proven too nice when dealing with a foe out to destroy their nation. In dealing with a strong bully, the correct course of action is not to curl up in a ball at their feet and expect mercy. It is to use anything to strike back and resist any attack while inflicting pain on the attacker to make them aware of the cost if they persist.

Anonymous Grinder July 19, 2015 4:15 PM  

Capitalize gains (or privatize gains) and socialize losses is the way the game is now played. Greeks should be in revolt over this, as we all should be.

Anonymous Heywood July 19, 2015 4:19 PM  

12. zen0

And who helped them cook the books enough to qualify for membership in the European Union at great profit to themselves?

It does not materially affect this thing - the fact that the Greeks were aided and abetted by the GlobEUlists and the banksters does not mean that they didn't perpetrate the crime. Just because fences make good money off of their trade does not exonerate the theives. I remain incredulous of the attempts to paint the Greeks as some sort of poor, set upon victims.

Blogger Salt July 19, 2015 4:40 PM  

Greeks should be in revolt over this, as we all should be

Lets get real about revolt; different from mere demonstrations. Revolt costs lives, and sufficient intelligence says, "I accept there's risk, but being the early-bird is suicide."

What I find amazing is how little passive resistence people are even willing to take, in everything from traffic tickets to paying taxes.

Anonymous RedJack #22 July 19, 2015 4:42 PM  

Feather Blade

Lets say I developed a single dose contraceptive. It would cause a lot of miscarriages, sterility, and possible severe side effects for those who get the dose. Now, if I wanted to reduce population numbers slowly (because quickly seems to attract a lot of attention), I would start making it illegal to not get the dose. Of course, I can't say what it is, because I am trying to make sure the "problem" populations get it, and the "good" ones don't. Kind of like the krogan virus Mass Effect.

Seen from that view, mandatory vaccines make sense. I stopped believing it was about disease prevention when a local measles outbreak resulted in only known vaccinated kids getting sick. Of course it was blamed on an unknown SDA or Chiropractor's kid who wasn't vaccinated that got all the good kids infected.

Anonymous RedJack #22 July 19, 2015 4:44 PM  

Salt,
I have friends who are Greek. The reason that the Greek government collects so few taxes is that passive resistance is in their bones. One guy I know gets all sorts of imports from Greece that he sells locally. He never pays the import/export duties.

It might get him one of these days, but he is in his 60's so he has had a great run.

Blogger Salt July 19, 2015 4:50 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Salt July 19, 2015 4:59 PM  

Fine RedJack, but also was included, "as we all should be". Passive resistence is not an inherent American trait beyond sit-ins and ghetto burning. Americans are still trying to play it fair.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 19, 2015 5:03 PM  

Words like "voluntary" are meaningless abstractions, white and black in a world of grayscale.

The point ultimately, i suppose, is what we call capitalism can most simply be considered an abstract model of the natural consequences of commerse, as it arrises out of human interaction. It is a mutually agreed upon fiction. A pretty proxy for violence.

Might has always made right, because the dead dont write history books. We murdered on Calvery the sole.exception to this, our very animal nature.

Anonymous bw July 19, 2015 5:15 PM  

We are serfs in a globalist judeo-capitalist empire divided into separate satrapies ruled by governors selected by the elites, not voters

Indeed. I would only add, for Westerners of Euro descent, judeo-"capitalist"-white traitors empire
The game is setting up to let the Traitors walk.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 19, 2015 5:17 PM  

Then I would suggest advocating greater regulation is a bad idea.
That claiming a lack of regulations is the problem, is in fact, wrong.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it, though the quote sounds a bit off to us because what passes for education now is not what it was in Aristotle's day. Still, the point is valid. Also, ranting against how the majority of people express themselves is not going to solve any problems. Victory will come from using the average person's desires to reclaim our civilization. Lecturing them on how they are expressing themselves poorly won't help.

Anonymous Fp July 19, 2015 5:23 PM  

"Just shocking that a socialist (ie...leftist/leftard/SJW) sold his people into slavery, shocking I tell you."

Anonymous Fp July 19, 2015 6:05 PM  

"It's as if they want all life, and means of living, and all means of death under their control."

Yessir leftard/SJWs seek control of both.

Blogger Groot July 19, 2015 8:02 PM  

27. D. Lane (#0067
"Can unregulated capitalism even exist? Has it ever?" It can and has. A recent example is Hong Kong, before the Chinese takeover, under the benign eye of British libertarians. Witness their skyscrapers.

Early America included a period in Quaker Pennsylvania that was almost completely free of government.
After the Revolutionary War, the United States was largely libertarian, under the umbrella of the Constitution, the 35 years of the Marshall Court, and other individuals' efforts, such as Andrew Jackson's refusal of a central bank.

We still have the Constitution, of course, and steady work by a properly staffed Supreme Court could do wonders. Just one or two more judges. These are important times.

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 19, 2015 8:56 PM  

'Capitalism' is a term created by Marxists to delude the masses in actually describing corporatism. It is little to do with free enterprise, which is the true system of trade and trusted economic exchanges described by supply and demand, mostly between small-to-medium organizations.

The true traditionalist conservative detests Big Business just as much as he detests Big Government.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 10:08 PM  

> What Wayne is saying here is in the long run power is truth. Does anyone actually disagree with that ...

Of course. Any Christian knows that in the long run Truth is power. But that's the very long run.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 19, 2015 10:33 PM  

Well yeah James Dixon @ 118 I can't fault that.

Blogger Groot July 19, 2015 10:38 PM  

70. Wayne Earl
Violence, death, and mortality IS the open market.

95. EH
Greeks work more hours per capita than do the Germans.

These two evoke the economic calculation problem, addressed by Mises and Hayek. The rootin' tootin' Earl (who would be hilarious as a character actor) is correct that markets always exist, for allocation of goods must take place even in mangled messes like the Soviet Union. But centralized bureaucracies don't have the ability to allocate resources rationally, as they don't have market prices to inform them. Violence may be effective at scaring people, but doesn't elicit the intelligence we're looking for.

Here we come to EH's fallacy. I invoke Milton Friedman: "If all we want are jobs, we can create any number -- for example, have people dig holes and then fill them up again... Our real objective is not just jobs but productive jobs -- jobs that will mean more goods and services to consume." If you work very hard but very inefficiently, you will remain poor. Fifty percent of Greek GDP is spent by their government (in contrast to 20% in the US). If 50% of your money is spent by the DMV, you've got to re-think.

Blogger dfordoom July 19, 2015 10:43 PM  

Plus, any major outbreak of insurgency simply results in growth of state power in reaction.

Precisely. It's a feature, not a bug.

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) July 19, 2015 11:59 PM  

For over the last 100 years, America has been practising what we here in the Institution call
“Aristocrony Corporatism”

DannyR

Anonymous Jack Amok July 20, 2015 12:55 AM  

Plus, any major outbreak of insurgency simply results in growth of state power in reaction.

Y'know what historically results in a significant reduction in state power?

Population collapse.

We're going to get a Little Ice Age sometime in the next 15 years. I doubt that'll be good for crop production.

Blogger SciVo July 20, 2015 1:03 AM  

Relaxed, willing, fertile and naked capitalism vs. heavy-handed, dictatorial, sterile and creeping socialism.

You're welcome.

Blogger SciVo July 20, 2015 1:09 AM  

Wait, that can be reduced to:

Willing, Fertile and Naked Capitalism vs. Heavy-handed, Sterile and Creeping Socialism

Blogger Floyd Looney July 20, 2015 3:20 AM  

Pretty much the whole world is in the same boat, or at least the same class of boat

Anonymous Statists are so dull July 20, 2015 3:42 AM  

Living in a socialist economy where the latest immigrants off the banana boat are valued more highly than me (BSc,MSc,PhD) b/c they fit into the "social" structure is thoroughly awful to live through.

Nothing has meaning anymore. Socialism is anti-human and attracts freeloaders and self-haters. Fuck the patriarchy for providing such a surplus of resources to allow this to happen!

Blogger Groot July 20, 2015 11:54 AM  

125. SciVo:

Spectacular golden bozos are included in "fertile"?

Anonymous EH July 20, 2015 6:18 PM  

120. Groot
"If you work very hard but very inefficiently, you will remain poor. "
The S. Koreans work long hours, are very inefficient, have an economy dominated by government-backed industrial cartels, yet are not poor. My comment was directed against the commonly expressed falsehoods that the Greeks are lazy, the Germans are hardworking and each nation has their just deserts economically. It was not an endorsement of the labor theory of value.

"Fifty percent of Greek GDP is spent by their government (in contrast to 20% in the US)." Greek government spending is down a third since 2009; that obviously hasn't helped. Greek government spending as a % of GDP was substantially lower than Germany until 2006. Real GDP per capita grew nearly 50% from 1995 - 2007, but has since fallen about 16% from the peak (reducing the post-'95 gain to 30%). Pension spending per person age 65+ is well below that of Germany and the EU overall. From 12/2007 to 12/2011, the price of the benchmark 10yr bond fell from 98 to 44. Refinancing it all then at near that price (technically perhaps a default, but really a forced buyback at market price) would have gotten them back down to what they thought their debt was before the Goldman Sachs fraud was discovered. It would also have tanked the French banking system and had the rest of the PIIGS demanding the same. But that really was already baked into the cake, and the longer it is delayed the worse it is going to be when it falls apart.

Here's the best description I have read about how it went:
"Here's what happened. In 2006, Greece was $220Bn in debt, about 70% of their GDP but it was worse than it looked because, since 2002,Goldman Sachs (GS) had been helping the Government hide debt from the EU by juggling their books. This trick worked until the Financial Crisis, when Greece actually needed the money Goldman was pretending they had (kind of like sub-prime loans here). A new Government was elected, uncovered the plot and Greece's debt suddenly jumped 60%, to $345Bn without any benefit whatsoever from the borrowed funds.

With the uncovered shenanigans, the cost of borrowing shot up for Greece and they were rolling debt over at 10-20%, putting them $30-50Bn more in debt each year on interest alone until the EFSF was formed in June of 2010 and began to roll Greece's debt at more normalized rates. But it was too late – the damage was done because two years of EU dithering had cost Greece $100Bn.

Even worse, the EFSF was a Central Bankster solution and essentially what it did was REWARD the people who sold Greece 20% notes by guaranteeing their EXTREMELY RISKY PAPER as if it were AAA-rated. 'That's not how bonds are supposed to work! People putting the screws to a country for 20% interest on loans know damned well those loans have a high likelihood of default. Not in the EU, apparently. ' "

Of the 254B Euros in Greek borrowing 2010-2014, only 27B went to state operating expenses. All the rest went to one form of debt service or another.

Blogger Groot July 20, 2015 7:45 PM  

129. EH
Sounds like they shouldn't have been juggling their books, external parties abetting them or not. Regardless, looking to the future, the only way out of these situations is via growth. How much of the growth from 1995-2007 was not fraudulent? Given my libertarian bias, I just can't see achieving sustained growth with those levels of centralized command-and-control. Germany, France and the rest of Europe seem in the same boat, and all are unnervingly close to the precipice. I know nothing of South Korean politics, but doubt they can eschew economic law and float mysteriously to the heights. Economies are complex adaptive systems, difficult to predict, and extremely sensitive to initial conditions, but they can be characterized. I would be skeptical but interested to hear of a deviation from Freedom = Prosperity.

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