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Friday, July 03, 2015

Another SJW lie

As with the marriage parody, SJWs are using the public high ground to create a false picture of changing public views with regards to the Confederate flag.
Washington (CNN)American public opinion on the Confederate flag remains about where it was 15 years ago, with most describing the flag as a symbol of Southern pride more than one of racism, according to a new CNN/ORC poll. And questions about how far to go to remove references to the Confederacy from public life prompt broad racial divides.

The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride.
In other words, nothing has substantially changed, but the government-media-corporate alliance has teamed up in order to sell their version of reality. Confederate flag backers can puncture this propaganda by following the lead of the pro-gun forces and destroying the careers of every politician who supported the attack on the flag, beginning with South Carolina governor Nikki Haley.

Of course, it should come as no surprise that the former Nimrata Nikki Randhawa would completely fail to understand Southern Pride. Along with Sen. Edward Kennedy, she is Exhibit A in the inability of second- and third-generation immigrants to understand the spirit of America, even though they were born inside its geographical boundaries, and even though they believe themselves to love and be loyal to America.

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304 Comments:

1 – 200 of 304 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 10:43 AM  

Preach! Talk 'at thang!

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 10:46 AM  

We're all confederates now.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2015 10:51 AM  

The good news is that the billion dollar propaganda campaign was a bust, that has to hurt.

The Occidental Dissent web site is doing a good job of organizing if anyone is interested

Anonymous Huckleberry July 03, 2015 10:51 AM  

I'm really keen to see how many NASCAR fans 1) leave the flag at home and 2) also stay home themselves. And I'm not talking Daytona. I'm talking about Talladega or Bristol or Hell even Darlington.
That's your barometer, and I'm banking the Stars and Bars are more dear to more hearts than The Car Of Tomorrow.

Anonymous Stephen J. July 03, 2015 10:53 AM  

I suspect Haley is far more a victim than a perpetrator of that particular misapprehension. Everything I've read about her says she's otherwise pretty decent as far as policy goes, but even decent right-leaning pols can stampede the wrong direction once or twice if the polls look bad enough. Why not call this a strike and keep going? (Unless she already has two strikes against her which I don't know about.)

Anonymous Dave July 03, 2015 10:53 AM  

I'm shocked CNN couldn't get the poll results they were expecting. They need some new pollsters.

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 10:56 AM  

Why not call this a strike and keep going?

Look at the damage she caused by giving the SJWs the inch they were looking for. No. She's toast and deservedly so.

Anonymous Nathanael July 03, 2015 10:59 AM  

The Confederate flag or the rainbow flag; the choice facing every American.

Blogger Guitar Man July 03, 2015 11:00 AM  

They'll take my General Lee matchbox when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Blogger beerme #0183 July 03, 2015 11:03 AM  

The Republicans have forgotten the case of Roy Barnes here in Georgia. He changed the flag and a Republican became Governor for the first time since Reconstruction.

We now fly a variant of the first national flag of the Confederacy as our state flag.

Anonymous Dave July 03, 2015 11:03 AM  

Huck did you see the BS SJW statement nascar eventually released? I hope their fans slam em hard conf flags covering Daytona

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 11:07 AM  

@Stephen J

That is a ridiculous position. Ridiculous. She caved immediately when she had to know, she HAD to know, that doing so would expose Southern whites to collective guilt for this hateful murder.

But, then again, she's not European-American or a Southern White.

What she is, in spades, is a Republican.

Anonymous R Wilson July 03, 2015 11:08 AM  

He screwed up a lot of other ways too.

The flag was probably the tipping point though.

Anonymous Ain July 03, 2015 11:12 AM  

Stephen J.: I suspect Haley is far more a victim than a perpetrator of that particular misapprehension.


That just highlights the point that she doesn't understand America. It turns her into a useful idiot.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 11:15 AM  

South Carolina .... Lindsey Graham.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 03, 2015 11:16 AM  

Politicians understand trust. If you don't think so, back-stab one and see how much help you get from them after that.

They also understand suckers. If a politician back-stabs you and you don't punish them, they'll diagnose you as one.

Anything they or you say makes no difference, and forgiveness doesn't enter into it; there's people who can't be back-stabbed with impunity (like the politicians' rich backers) and people who can, like you. Who gets badly treated follows with mathematical inevitability.

When a politician back-stabs you, you have to deafen your ears and deliver the punishment. There's no other practical option.

Blogger Patrick July 03, 2015 11:18 AM  

Anything to say about the man formerly known as the Southern Avenger?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/the-southern-avenger-repents-i-was-wrong-about-the-confederate-flag.html

When is the next NASCAR event where we will see the new policy play out?

Blogger Bateful Higot July 03, 2015 11:19 AM  

@Dave

The answer is obvious: continue taking polls until the correct result is collected, declare that a majority of Americans see the Stars and Bars as a hate symbol, and say that the debate is settled. No future polls will be needed.

Anonymous The other robot July 03, 2015 11:22 AM  

More SJW Lies about first-cousin marriage and how marrying half savages is good for your children.

Naturally, enlightened opinion increasingly supports legalization of first-cousin marriage, due to its usual ignorance, perversity, and nihilism.

Blogger rho July 03, 2015 11:27 AM  

destroying the careers of every politician who supported the attack on the flag, beginning with South Carolina governor Nikki Haley.

Is this not shooting at those on your side? Or is this purging the weaker allies to buttress the stronger ones?

Anonymous cheddarman July 03, 2015 11:28 AM  

Too bad Elvis is not around to defend the Flag.

Anonymous Dave July 03, 2015 11:28 AM  

@ Patrick

This weekend in Daytona. Their statement calls for fans to be more inclusive but I don't believe they have actually banned anything yet.

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 11:28 AM  

If Southern Whites don't take any stand or make any efforts against NASCAR, the "we are well and truly fucked" meter will go down by at least -15.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 11:29 AM  

Southern Avenger is a retard. Lets look at is logic...

So because millions of atheists see the cross as a symbol of hate... it is a symbol of hate?

Symbols are defined by those who love them... not those who hate them.

Blogger Bateful Higot July 03, 2015 11:32 AM  

@Patrick
"But I am here to say there is something at stake far more important than this symbol.

Heritage might not be hate. But battling hate is far more important than anyone’s heritage, politics, or just about anything else. We should have different priorities."

So tolerant! One hopes that his status as a Respectable Conservative™ is remembered when he is accused of a microaggression by the degenerate freak mafia.

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 11:32 AM  

@rho

You need to stop thinking that there are two "sides" and the Republicans are "our side." It took this bitch, what, 2 hours to declare that somehow a symbol of Southern white pride and heritage are officially connected to a mass murder?

Do you recall anyone anywhere asking for any flag to be lowered to half-staff when a European-American was killed by a vibrant?

You're not even in the fight, man. You're in Fox News territory. What's next? You going to tell us all the great things Rush Limbaugh had to say about this?

Anonymous Dave July 03, 2015 11:33 AM  

@Bateful

That beg's the question, why publicize this poll that shows almost no change from previous poll. Is CNN so desperate they are courting southrens now

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2015 11:39 AM  

"Failed Rebellion" wow must be a PhD candidate, but what University? And apologies for my negativity

Blogger YIH July 03, 2015 11:39 AM  

Huckleberry: That's your barometer, and I'm banking the Stars and Bars are more dear to more hearts than The Car Of Tomorrow.
No-brainer that one - The (cookie-cutter) ''Car Of Tomorrow'' sucks.
Nathaniel: The Confederate flag or the rainbow flag; the choice facing every American.
Or respond to those pushing the rainbow flag with another one.
Guitar Man: They'll take my General Lee matchbox when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
When Viacom found out they were rerunning Dukes of Hazzard you can guess what they did about it. Some of the TV cast are about as happy about it as you are.

Anonymous The Obvious July 03, 2015 11:43 AM  

It looks like CNN does stand for Communist News Network.

Blogger Cecil Henry July 03, 2015 11:46 AM  

Hey maybe race matters for white people. And for their society.

It matters for everyone else. So why wouldn't it matter for whites???

I;m tired on the anti-white bigotry against southern whites and the Confederacy. IT may not be MY flag, but I respect their right to live as THEY please.

Enough.

Blogger Bateful Higot July 03, 2015 11:55 AM  

@Dave

Not at all. Simply feeding the narrative. Obviously the problem is that white people are too privileged and sheltered. This is settled by the fact that education is correlated with the correct response.

Blogger rho July 03, 2015 11:56 AM  

You need to stop thinking that there are two "sides" and the Republicans are "our side." It took this bitch, what, 2 hours to declare that somehow a symbol of Southern white pride and heritage are officially connected to a mass murder?

It took you five minutes to make a bunch of (incorrect) inferences about the question.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2015 11:56 AM  

Well Cecil IMO if that poll quoted is correct and I think it close enough then I would guess the whole mess of the "racist" part of the three headed monster of cultural Marxism could be negated. Terms borrowed from Lind's "Victoria"

Anonymous BGS July 03, 2015 11:58 AM  

More SJW Lies about first-cousin marriage and how marrying half savages is good for your children.

Because the children count as black they are smarter than average blacks.

But battling hate is far more important than anyone’s heritage, politics, or just about anything else.

Why if we just ban the flag then n!ggers will do as well as Asians in school

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 12:01 PM  

And apologies for my negativity

S'all right.

Is this not shooting at those on your side?

She's not on our side. You have to look at the issues in order of priority. And as a second-generation immigrant, she should never have been permitted a position of influence, let alone authority.

Ann Coulter was right: “I’d really like to like Nikki Haley since she is a Republican, but on the other hand, she’s an immigrant and does not understand America’s history,” Coulter told host Kennedy on her Fox Business show Tuesday evening.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2015 12:02 PM  

Well Cecil IMO if that poll quoted is correct and I think it close enough then I would guess the whole mess of the "racist" part of the three headed monster of cultural Marxism could be negated. Terms borrowed from Lind's "Victoria"

Anonymous Stephen J. July 03, 2015 12:03 PM  

@VD: "Look at the damage she caused by giving the SJWs the inch they were looking for."

Caused? So you're saying that if she hadn't called for a flag's removal from a government display, all the rest of it, like TVLand pulling The Dukes of Hazzard reruns and all the game companies wastebasketing Civil War sims and NASCAR asking fans to leave the Stars and Bars at home, wouldn't have happened either? That seems a stretch.

Besides, if the demand in politicians is for absolute 100% resistance to any given platform, no politician is ever going to come up to speed; there are too many compromises necessitated by the process and the status quo. And the temptation to score quick brownie points by catering to what seems like an overwhelming popular position (bear in mind, lobbyists lie to politicians just as much as pollsters lie to the public) with an apparently costless gesture is also universal and everpresent; kicking someone to the curb for failing to resist it once also seems like too high a bar, in practice.

I agree it was a bad idea and a judgement failure; I just think treating all judgement failures as equally unforgiveable is ultimately an unfeasible and counterproductive approach, when it comes to state politics. Boycott NASCAR instead -- more direct expression, and quicker turnaround.

Anonymous eyes on the ballz July 03, 2015 12:03 PM  

DES MOINES, Iowa – Roman Catholic leaders in Iowa will call for candidates for president to follow the teachings of Pope Francis, and focus as much on the environment and income inequality in 2016 as they have in past elections on opposing gay marriage and abortion.

Blogger papabear July 03, 2015 12:05 PM  

"Is this not shooting at those on your side? Or is this purging the weaker allies to buttress the stronger ones?"

How is N. Haley on the side of Southron patriots? She obviously isn't and probably doesn't self-identify as one.

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 12:06 PM  

So you're saying that if she hadn't called for a flag's removal from a government display, all the rest of it, like TVLand pulling The Dukes of Hazzard reruns and all the game companies wastebasketing Civil War sims and NASCAR asking fans to leave the Stars and Bars at home, wouldn't have happened either?

No, they were waiting for someone to provide the spark. Someone else almost certainly would have. But she did. So she's no longer to be trusted; she never should have been in the first place.

Blogger papabear July 03, 2015 12:07 PM  

Good for Ann Coulter, even if she needs to be more realistic with her suggestions for dealing with the problem.

Anonymous Susan July 03, 2015 12:08 PM  

The last time a sitting governor tried to take the flag down, he not only lost his race by huge margins to Jim DeMint, but he is now so deep in political obscurity that you would need a serious brush hog to find him.
I do not remember the name of the group that orchestrated his downfall, but they are indeed gunning for Haley. She is toast. Burned and crumbly toast.

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2015 12:10 PM  

Rand Paul's Confederate Flag opinion was SJW nonsense too. And to add insult to injury, he gave his garbage speech on the US Senate floor. All he had to do was say it's a state issue.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 03, 2015 12:10 PM  

Why not call this a strike and keep going?

If she were solidly traditional and constructivist on every issue but just slipped up this one time, maybe you'd do that. I'd never heard of her before this, but I'd bet a good chunk of my wealth that that's not the case. I know she's a woman and that she identifies as a Something-American, so the odds are extremely good that this was not a "strike," but an expression of her beliefs and policies.

Any takers on that bet?

Is this not shooting at those on your side?

No, it's realizing that being "on your side" requires more than coming to your meetings and eating the donuts while everyone else agrees on tenets and strategy.

Anonymous Jeffrey S. July 03, 2015 12:11 PM  

I thought you all might enjoy this:

http://whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2015/06/i_thought_it_was_only_crazy_is_1.html

Anonymous 11B July 03, 2015 12:13 PM  

Well last week I purchased my first Rebel Flag. I noticed that the ban only seems to be directed at the battle flag. They don't seem to mind the Bonnie Blue Flag. I would love to see the Bonnie Blue Flag, and its awesome song, become more popular.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2015 12:13 PM  

I suspect Haley is far more a victim than a perpetrator of that particular misapprehension

Haley is no victim here. This was a calculated political gamble on her part.

With Hillary on the Democratic ticket, there is a perceived need for a woman on the ticket. The Republican establishment now has her on the short list for the VP slot next year.

The downside of of the gamble is the potential backlash once the tears in Charleston have had a chance to dry. Which I am now viewing as quite likely.

The cry-bullies were given an inch and naturally took a hundred miles. They went too far and now this is starting to feel less like an act of mourning and more like a crystal nacht.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 12:18 PM  

Sigh. And Donald Trump. And Rand Paul and Reason magazine. http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/23/rand-paul-backs-confederate-flag-removal

Anonymous Jack Amok July 03, 2015 12:18 PM  

Two things. One, I found this rather informative 1950's instructional video on propaganda. See how many techniques you can spot the SJWs using in the flag and gay things.

Two, y'all (yawl, you all) know I'm no Southron, but I feel like an unwritten agreement was breached last week. When the war ended, the South was told it could keep it's pride and whatever parts of it's culture it could make work without slavery. Southerners couldn't have their own country, but they could remain their own people.

The result was that after the kind of bloodshed that often lead to generation after generation of strife (the Balkans and Ireland being just two examples), instead of renewed war, we had 150 years of peace and teamwork. North and South (and West) didn't often have nice words for each other, but they worked together.

So now a bunch of johnny-come-latelies who don't know shit and never think about unintended consequences want to end all that. For what? So they can have one more opportunity to boss people around.

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 12:21 PM  

@38 Stephen J -

Caused? So you're saying that if she hadn't called for a flag's removal from a government display, all the rest of it, like TVLand pulling The Dukes of Hazzard reruns and all the game companies wastebasketing Civil War sims and NASCAR asking fans to leave the Stars and Bars at home, wouldn't have happened either? That seems a stretch.

You don't understand the difference in significance between the acts of a private actor, like TV Land or NASCAR, and the acts of a public actor, such as the Governor of South Carolina.

The first are the mere actions of private individuals or companies.

The second invokes the full imprimatur of the state, as an official matter, as an official declaration of policy.

Further, since the lowering of any flag to half-staff is by definition a public actor's decision on behalf of the state, in addition to adding the full force and weight of her state and its chief executive to the opposition's position, she was additionally certifying that the murder of these individuals was a *matter of state* which requires official recognition.

I'm hoping you see this distinction now, as it surprises me greatly that per your comments you seem to think that somehow what a NASCAR official says and what the Governor of South Carolina says are both simply statements from people with different jobs.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 12:27 PM  

When the war ended, the South was told it could keep it's pride and whatever parts of it's culture it could make work without slavery.

Not true, Jack. The army of the north occupied the south for years afterward and tried to impose northern values on them through "Reconstruction". The occupiers were referred to as "federals". It didn't end until 1877 when Rutherford B. Hayes agreed to withdraw the occupying troops in order to win the presidency.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 12:28 PM  

Southern Avenger no more.

Southern Reconstructed it is.

Anonymous MrGreenMan July 03, 2015 12:29 PM  

This certainly doesn't help Nascar. They really seem to hate their southern fans the most - I think they are embarrassed by them, but they will never, ever escape being the southern racing league. (Just like those who know - they know that Arca will always be the midwest racing league, and there's a hole where Hooter's racing should be.)

I watched, for a god long while, but the social programming was so off putting I stopped caring, stopped watching, stopped spending money, and it's far easier not to care.

The Danica Patrick Phenomenon didn't help my desire to watch, considering I remember when Chevrolet returned to Indianapolis and it was overshadowed by the media hype of the "record breaking" part that Danica led a lap by stalling it on pit road, thereby getting her off cycle, thereby having her stay out so the Andretti team could hope to get some press, because she wasn't getting that race.

I tuned out more when Michelle Obama and Jill Biden started using it to spout off on issues. Nobody wants to hear a politician, especially one who hates the fans, talk down to the fans and pretend to be one of them.

The "Nascar Diversity Drivers" program and the constant action of the TV network bringing our attention to somebody stuck in 30th place instead of the action at the front of the field sealed the deal. If I have to go and pay for a pass to watch the in-race camera from some subset of drivers and hope that one of them is near the front so that I can see the action, not see what Fox or NBC or TNT wants me to see for their chosen favorite drivers, this is too much work.

The confederate flag thing will probably be a big deal breaker for lots of the pre-Jimmie fans because they'll have it fully cemented that they are despised by Nascar and the France family - just like game journos despised gamers.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

The reason we had peace between the north and south was that the north withdrew, ending Reconstruction. In the face of Jim Crow blacks who thought they'd get a better deal up north migrated there.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

Thexsad thing is, that I, not native to the Southern soil know more history, Southern history and culture and am able to defend than most.
Not all is lost with some of us that became a band of brothers native to the soil through adoption.

Anonymous ZhukovG July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

I had been slightly concerned that Rand Paul would cause me to break my vow against voting.

I can see now that won't be a problem.

Anonymous MrGreenMan July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

"When the war ended, the South was told it could keep it's pride and whatever parts of it's culture it could make work without slavery."

Once Lincoln was dead, the remaining Republican leaders wanted to finish what Grant started and fully eliminate and eradicate the Southern culture. They didn't all say "y'all" until they realized it was a little way to stick it to the Northern carpetbagger, who couldn't tell a Palmetto Stater from an Alabaman from a Cajun, anyway. The South was told to hurry up and die already, and you're stupid, to boot.

Blogger papabear July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

11B Wish I had a Bonnie Blue flag and a flagpole, I'd fly it tomorrow.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

Rand Paul made the list at # 2. I'm sure Jeb will come in at 3, Fat Bastard at 4, etc.

Anonymous zen0 July 03, 2015 12:35 PM  

48. Cataline Sergius

With Hillary on the Democratic ticket, there is a perceived need for a woman on the ticket. The Republican establishment now has her on the short list for the VP slot next year.

Bingo

She don't need no stinkin' governorship. Look at Napolitano of Arizona. Just a step on the ladder.

Anonymous The other robot July 03, 2015 12:44 PM  

The Republican establishment now has her on the short list for the VP slot next year.

Can't wait to vote her down regardless of who is on the other side.

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 12:48 PM  

Modern "culture" is a contrivance of the power elite.

This is simply a divide and rule issue to keep the blacks on the reservation. 9 blacks killed and the establishment PRETENDS to be outraged. On average 1,867 blacks murdered daily in abortion mills and all you hear is crickets.

The establishment media is used to distort, lie, manipulate, and control.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 03, 2015 12:49 PM  

I am familiar with Reconstruction. I also know it wasn't as brutal as what happened to most other cultures who lost a war like that. Yes, I'm sure it sucked. It could have sucked a lot worse. As I said, the two sides didn't love each other but they worked together. If you don't think that's true, please explain the enlistment rates of southerners in the US (Federal) military. Explain it from both sides.

If there wasn't the sort of unwritten agreement I mentioned, why would so many southerners willingly join the army of their occupiers, and why would their occupiers willing allow so many into important positions within their military?

Of course, one of the effects of this insane crusade to get rid of the Confederate Flag is to blur people's minds to that, to highlight the disagreements and differences and obscure the cooperation. SJWs are divisive by nature because they need an inexhaustible supply of people to demonize.

So, 150 years of a workable compromise that kept two of the most militarily adept peoples on Earth from fighting each other is jeopardized because a coalition of petty tyrants and fainting ladies has temporarily gotten ahold of some power.

Blogger Matt July 03, 2015 12:52 PM  

Mainstream media and big gov live in their own universe, drinking each others urine.

Game of Thrones isnt so off the mark in the way it portrays the divide between the elite and the rest of the population.

Blogger rho July 03, 2015 12:52 PM  

She's not on our side. You have to look at the issues in order of priority. And as a second-generation immigrant, she should never have been permitted a position of influence, let alone authority.

Fair enough. Haley weakly defended the flag once before, but not from a historical perspective. I wouldn't use the flag issue--which is a debate SC has had for something like 20 years--as a proxy for arguing against second-generation immigrants attaining political power, but that's me.

Your point that it has emboldened others to take the purge a step further clearly has merit. One only has to read the news to see it. I have no argument there.

If a Southerner wants to really engage in a battle of flags, advocate flying the State flag over the U.S. flag. That would be a symbolic gesture with some teeth.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2015 12:54 PM  

"I’d really like to like Nikki Haley since she is a Republican, but on the other hand, she’s an immigrant and does not understand America’s history,'

I think people overestimate how socially conservative SC is. This is a state that elected Fritz Hollings and Lindseed Graham Cracker. And in every POTUS primary they vote for the establishment RINO over the more conservative candidate.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2015 12:56 PM  

Besides, does anyone really think Nikki was the best candidate for Governor? The Repubs nominated her because they wanted to get on the feel good diversity bandwagon just like the liberals. Oh, a person of color and a women, how marvelous - we're diverse too.

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 12:56 PM  

@VFM Bot 155 -

I think you perhaps misunderstood Jack Amok's statement. I'm sure he knows about Reconstruction and the extent to which the Union defeated and dismantled the South. I believe Jack was speaking of the larger, unspoken social settlement that grew to become a part of American politico-social discourse.

Like so much of that discourse, what Jack is speaking of is something that all Americans know but are not allowed to say much about out loud. But he is correct as to the general consensus: Yankees and other anti-Southerners will stay out of Southern cultural affairs and their (in their view) outdated and wrong-headed attachment to things like guns, the Confederate Battle Flag, loudly identifying as a "Reb", and other such things so long as those same Southrons remember their place, that they were defeated and that if they press any of these issues too far they will be slapped down twice as hard as they were before.

That has been the quiet understanding for decades. What Jack is saying is that by going after a main Southron symbol by using a crazed loner's mass murder is that the Yankees and other anti-Southern types have openly broken their side of the deal and have shown that open season on Southrons is back on.

Which means, Southerners are therefore equally no longer bound by that agreement and can, and should, begin to reclaim their ancient rights and symbols by, as the black saying goes, any means necessary.

tl;dr: There was a social truce between the descendants of the Civil War, and the Union side just broke it, so the truce is off.

Blogger The Remnant July 03, 2015 12:57 PM  

Of course, the real reason for a witch hunt against all things Confederate is the growing rhetoric of disobedience to, and secession from, the unconstitutional monstrosity choking the life out of us. For all its faults, including chattel slavery, the Confederacy was justified in resisting armed invasion and conquest. The slavery they practiced was limited, allowed for manumission, and would have expired naturally; the slavery they fought to prevent was universal, perpetual, and merciless. The battle flag is a symbol of courage and independence. Fly it proudly.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2015 12:57 PM  

As the Confederate flag that's already done. The SJWs' are moving on to getting rid of holidays commemorating Lee and/or Davis & eliminating public statues of any and all Confederates.

Anonymous Wyrd July 03, 2015 1:00 PM  

Congrats, fudge-packer proponents:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/07/oregon-labor-commissioner-orders-christian-bakery-to-pay-135000-in-damages-to-gay-couple/

Enjoy your sodomy while it lasts and please tone down the whaling and gnashing of teeth when Judgment comes. Some of us have sensitive ears.

Anonymous Wyrd July 03, 2015 1:04 PM  

Wailing, not whaling. No Herman Melvin references intended.

Blogger David-093 July 03, 2015 1:04 PM  

It doesnt do well to keep reminding people of their past failures. If people insist on shoving the result of the Civil War in the Souths face then Southrons are liable to not uphold this truce, especially if theyre seen (incorrectly) as the weaker party.

Anonymous LegallySpeaking July 03, 2015 1:08 PM  

This reminds me of the recent SJW-failure with changing the name of the Redskins.

The SJWs all coordinated suddenly to ban the term "Redskins" as offensive, and all the major networks got on board. That pipsquak rabbit Bob Costas semi-led the charge, but ESPN and others got on board too. Nothing would stop Washington from having it's football team's name changed!!

But Dan Snyder, the Redskins owner, stood firm and told the SJW's to screw off (he's a horrible owner for football fans, but he does love the team and its history, apparently). Then the polls came out: despite the SJW's best efforts, support for the team name was still high, and, importantly, Native Americans themselves didn't feel the team name was offensive---one article was even forced to point out that Native Americans themselves had named several high school mascots as the Redskins, and never were offended by it.

And, ultimately, the Redskins do have a larger-than-normal black fanbase, as they are in DC (David Aldridge, ESPN's longtime token milquetoast black, is from the DC area, and wrote an article once about how, growing up, DC blacks identified with the team).

And so the SJW's failed. The cause was abandoned---for the moment. Chris Berman is allowed to say Redskins again on the air, and I've heard him say it.

The Confederate flag issue is the same, I hope.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 03, 2015 1:09 PM  

"-as a proxy for arguing against second-generation immigrants attaining political power"

Second generation, nothing. I am opposed to even fifth and sixth generation immigrants having any influence or power.

Anonymous The other robot July 03, 2015 1:10 PM  

Time to boycott Amazon.

If 57% of Americans do not think the Confederate Battle Flag is racist and 50% of those stop purchasing shit at Amazon, I suspect Amazon will change their tune.

However, I won't forgive them. Time for scorched earth.

Blogger HickoryHammer #0211 July 03, 2015 1:11 PM  

I used to not give a crap about the confederate flag, then lady liberty took an arrow in the knee.

Blogger His Majesty July 03, 2015 1:13 PM  

http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2015/07/reacting-to-spree-killings-progressively.html

Blogger David-093 July 03, 2015 1:15 PM  

It doesnt do well to keep reminding people of their past failures. If people insist on shoving the result of the Civil War in the Souths face then Southrons are liable to not uphold this truce, especially if theyre seen (incorrectly) as the weaker party.

Anonymous ZhukovG July 03, 2015 1:17 PM  

It is obvious that the only way to save the American Progressive Union is to expel the Southern states and force them to suffer the horror of living in their vile traditionalist Confederacy.

For the sake of Social Justice, do it America!

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:18 PM  

American public opinion on the Confederate flag remains about where it was 15 years ago, with most describing the flag as a symbol of Southern pride more than one of racism, according to a new CNN/ORC poll.

Southern "pride" and racism are one and the same. The South was built on racism; the Confederacy dedicated to it.

Even in defeat, the South managed to perpetuate a systemic racism whose effects linger even now.

The Confederate flag belongs in a museum, and a concerted effort must be made to teach all Americans that it is a symbol of racism and treason against the United States. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 03, 2015 1:20 PM  

tl;dr: There was a social truce between the descendants of the Civil War, and the Union side just broke it, so the truce is off.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

I'm not claiming the North didn't dictate terms to the South - of course they did, they won the damn war. But those terms were settled a long time ago. Now a bunch of socially retarded fools want to retroactively add some more terms so they can feel good about themselves.

Anonymous Joe July 03, 2015 1:21 PM  

Are you saying understanding the spirit of America and defending the Confederate flag as state symbol (as she should have done) are one and the same? If so, that's a leap.

That being said, I am surprised and disappointed with Governor Haley. One doesn't require descent from a citizen of the CSA to learn the history and respect what the Confederate flag means to citizens of the state of which you're governor.

I agree that this episode raises a red flag that Haley at least abides by SJW-narrative puppeteering like many others Republicans, including Republicans with family lines going back in America for more than 3 generations, if she's not an SJW herself.

I disagree that her actions show that 2nd and 3rd generation Americans are unable to understand the spirit of America.

Anonymous SS July 03, 2015 1:22 PM  

Shut up, Tad

Blogger Jim July 03, 2015 1:23 PM  

Southern "pride" and racism are one and the same.

Why are you such a hateful bigot?

Anonymous Huckleberry July 03, 2015 1:23 PM  

Southern "pride" and racism are one and the same.

Shut up, Tad.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:26 PM  

Who's Tad?

And why are y'all so eager to silence dissent?

Anonymous Jourdan July 03, 2015 1:28 PM  

@ Tom Joad -

Thanks. It's always good to hear the enemy declare that we are nothing more than evil racists and our history and pride belong nowhere but in a museum.

We'll remember that principle should you end up on the losing side.

And, while you can talk the talk, I would be my bottom dollar you don't walk the walk....care to share the zip code of where you grew up?

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2015 1:32 PM  

I lived there for seven years and I still never really get some points of southern culture.

That said, I noticed some divisions within that culture that were emerging back when I was stationed here.

The old school Southron as personified by our Nate.

And the other side as typified by a friend of mine who felt the South had been "trapped in a memory play" long enough and that it was time to move on.

When I heard this I nodded my head in feigned sagacity, while not remotely understanding what he had just said.. But I was curious enough to hunt down the reference.

The scene is memory and is therefore non-realistic. Memory takes a lot of poetic licence. It omits some details; others are exaggerated, according to the emotional value of the articles it touches, for memory is seated predominantly in the heart. The interior is therefore rather dim and poetic.

-Tennessee Williams


Interesting view point and one that is very Southern.

Anonymous LES July 03, 2015 1:33 PM  

Probably most Americans believe that Lincoln's Emancipation
Proclamation freed the slaves. Actually, it did not free even one slave. The Emancipation Proclamation only "freed" the slaves of the Confederacy who Lincoln had no control over but did not free the slaves in the 4 slave states that remained in the Union.

There were 34 states at that time, 15 were slave states. When the South seceded from the Union only 7 slave states left, leaving 8 slave states in the North. Only after Lincoln declared war on the South did 4 of the 8 slave states join the South rather than take up arms against their brethren. It was not a Civil War. The North invaded and attacked the South. The South had no intention or ambition to overthrow and take over the North.

The War of Aggression Against the South was not about slavery but about the states' rights to secede from the Union. Lincoln stated in his First Inaugural Address that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."
I believe the issue of slavery would have eventually been resolved peacefully as it was in all the other western countries that abolished slavery.

The South did not secede over slavery but over tariffs, specifically the Morrill Tariff. There was no income tax at that time. The government was funded by tariffs which fell hardest on the agricultural South while protecting manufacturers in the industrial North. The tariff money from the South was being used to fund public works projects in the North. The Force Act of 1833 gave the president the power to use military force against any state that resisted the tariff acts. Since the South was out-numbered and out-voted in Congress, they had no way of preventing the North from economically oppressing the South.
They saw no other option than to leave the Union.

Lincoln's use of the Force Act resulted in an unnecessary war that took 800,000 lives. If you want to learn of how vicious the war was, study General Sherman's scorched earth "march to the sea." In a July 31, 1862 letter to his wife he wrote that his purpose in the war was: “Extermination, not of soldiers alone, that is the least part of the trouble, but the [Southern] people.” This war on citizens was not simply restrained to be applied against men and women but also children. Gen. Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Sec. of War, Edwin Station wrote, "There is a class of people men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order." Stanton replied, "Your letter of the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval." In other words, genocide.

"Look to the South and you who went with us through that land can best say if they have not been fearfully punished. Mourning is in every household, desolation written in broad characters across the whole face of their country, cities in ashes and fields laid waste, their commerce gone, their system of labor annihilated and destroyed. Ruin and poverty and distress everywhere, and now pestilence adding to the very cap sheaf of their stack of misery..." -- Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who left a 60 mile wide, 300 mile long path of death and desolation across GA and up through SC. Next on Sherman's list for extermination were the American Indians.

In a January 31, 1864 letter to Major R.M. Sawyer, Sherman explained the reason why he hated the South in general, and South Carolina in particular, so much. The war, he said “was the result of a false political doctrine that any and every people have a right to self-government.” In the same letter Sherman referred to states’ rights, freedom of conscience, and freedom of the press as “trash” that had “deluded the Southern people into war.”

Lincoln's war against the South was the end of the Republic and the beginning of the American Empire.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 1:35 PM  

Southern "pride" and racism are one and the same. The South was built on racism

And Yankees built their tariff collection posts right outside those Southern ports, and were more than happy to use that 23% (Republicans wanted to raise it to 38% i believe) tax money to build up the North.

You know, 23% is quite likely a much higher percentage of profit than the slaveowners themselves were making. Huh. So the North actually benefitted a lot more from slavery...while getting to use it as a moral sledgehammer at the same time.

Everyone...what do SJWs and their ilk always do, again? They are experts at the shell game.

I guess Farakkhan is kinda right when he says slaves built America!

So I guess all the yankees, including Mr. Joad if he is one, were founded on racism and should just kill themselves now, or self-hate, whatever.

Blacks are still enslaving other blacks to this very day in Africa. Blacks are all racist as a result and should just shut up and stop whining.

Since blacks are still enslaving other blacks, while slavery ceased to exist in the South approximately 150 years ago, and since the yankees profited the most from slavery, blacks and yankees are more racist than whites according to your own logic.

Everyone's a racist! Nobody gets to have any history or heritage!

Which, of course, is the point. The SJWs will write a new history for us, a glorious story of the Return of the King to Gondor after the fall of Berlor, a shining city on a hill spraying rainbow rays of equality over the landscape.

Why, we've always been at war with Eastasia.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:36 PM  

Jourdan,

I'm sorry if history is inconvenient for you, but that doesn't change the truth. The Confederacy was dedicated to nothing so much as continuing the institution of slavery and keeping an entire race of men, women and children in subjugation. Even after the Confederacy lost the war, the South maintained a racist system that kept blacks from voting or enjoying many other civil rights.

This is history. This is the truth.

And there is nothing in that history — or that flag — that should engender pride in a people.

There were, I have no doubt, many Southern men of honor who fought valiantly. But they were fighting for an evil cause, whether they realized it at the time or not. We realize it now, and when we honor their memory it should be with full recognition that the Southern cause was wrong.

I grew up in Missouri, near Kansas City, for what it's worth.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2015 1:37 PM  

Love the southern talk about "Yankees" - the people driving this stuff aren't related to 1860s WASPs in the least. Of course maybe you think Walmart, the guy who owns Amazon, the executives at Viacom and the SPLC are "Yankees" just like Abe Lincoln and WT Sherman.

Anonymous Geoff July 03, 2015 1:38 PM  

The public has changed their views on the Confederate flag just like they have evolved on same sex marriage.

Yeah, right. That's why the Supreme Court imposed a decision against the will of the majority of the people in many states.

SJWs always lie.

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 03, 2015 1:39 PM  

Is Tom Joad 'Tad' or another banned troll? He writes like Tad and about the same issues. I just want to be sure before I respond. Don't want to get added to the 'spam file'.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 1:40 PM  

Southerners, not whites, to be more accurate. I'll just go ahead and correct that now.

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 1:40 PM  

An election must be on the horizon. The establishment is trying to scam the blacks to make sure they show up and vote. The power elite must be worried that the blacks are starting to figure out that they've been sold down the river.

Anonymous Case July 03, 2015 1:41 PM  

The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it.

-Robert E. Lee

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 1:42 PM  

The public's "views" are shaped by the cultural elites.

The public's "views" are managed, manipulated, and controlled...

... but the establishment can't fool everybody. And they fool fewer every day.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2015 1:43 PM  

@Donn

He's either a historical illiterate or more likely just a troll. In either case he's too stupid to be interesting.

Don't bother.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 1:44 PM  

the people driving this stuff aren't related to 1860s WASPs in the least.

If you think that New England and California, along with their union and other pals in the Midwest etc don't exist as a political bloc these days, you're not tall enough for this ride.

Yeah, they also metastasized all over the country after they won the war. Isn't that perfectly obvious?

The major difference these days is that major urban centers dot the south, which is a factor that did not exist before. There are of course other differences, but we can't sit here picking nits.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 1:45 PM  

Additionally, modern leftism has portions of lineage that are directly traceable back to New England Puritanism, and Unitarianism.

Go read what some Puritans actually wrote, sometime. I'd bet you've never done it before.

They sound astoundingly similar to modern SJWs.

Blogger Jim July 03, 2015 1:48 PM  

I'm sorry if history is inconvenient for you, but that doesn't change the truth.

Spoken by someone who is baffled by a single book that he claims authority on.

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 1:48 PM  

There were, I have no doubt, many Southern men of honor who fought valiantly. But they were fighting for an evil cause, whether they realized it at the time or not. We realize it now, and when we honor their memory it should be with full recognition that the Southern cause was wrong.

The Southern cause was not wrong. Woodrow Wilson even endorsed it. It's called "self-determination". It doesn't matter why people want independence, it is enough that they do.

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 1:50 PM  

Interesting how suddenly this issue just pops up around every election cycle.

Time to con the general population again I guess.

But it is getting noticeably harder and harder for the establishment to scam the public.

Anonymous Joe July 03, 2015 1:50 PM  

@90. Cataline Sergius

I was born and raised in NE city. In other words, I'm a "yankee".

But I'm also a veteran. I served with Southerners and learned to respect the Confederacy from a US military perspective, which embraces the Confederate military in the US military heritage.

So, while I'm not from the South, I oppose the furious imposition of the SJW narrative of the Confederate flag and the stigmatization of a Southern tradition that also relates to an honored part of US military heritage.

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 1:53 PM  

I disagree that her actions show that 2nd and 3rd generation Americans are unable to understand the spirit of America.

That's stupid. Very, very few 2nd and 3rd generation Americans are able to do so. Most who have been here longer than that still don't get it. And I say that as a 1st generation immigrant who has under no illusions that my children grasp the essence of their new homeland as well as the natives.

I find it very amusing that people still consider me an American, but think that a Bangladeshi or a Nigerian who has been resident in the USA for less than half the time I've been here are real Americans now.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 03, 2015 1:55 PM  

And there is nothing in that history — or that flag — that should engender pride in a people.

An thus the SJW preaches his tolerance, by telling everyone else what they can take pride in.

Of course, Joad doesn't even know what pride is. He probably thinks it has to do with buggering each other in the town square.

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 1:56 PM  

103. Anonymous T July 03, 2015 1:45 PM
"Additionally, modern leftism has portions of lineage that are directly traceable back to New England Puritanism, and Unitarianism...They sound astoundingly similar to modern SJWs."


Correct, the SJWs are modern day equivalent of political Puritans. Who founded Massachusetts? Which state was the first to enforce government run education? What state has consistently been one the most politically intolerant and totalitarian since its founding?

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:57 PM  

Do the articles of secession lie?

Georgia: "For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

"A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose."

Texas: "Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?"

Face it. The Civil War was fought by the South to preserve the race-based institution of slavery. That's what the Confederate flag represents. And those who "honor" the flag, honor that sentiment, whether they realize it or not.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:57 PM  

More:

Mississippi: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove."

South Carolina: "We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection."

Blogger aut0062matthew July 03, 2015 1:57 PM  

Is Tom Joad 'Tad' or another banned troll? He writes like Tad and about the same issues. I just want to be sure before I respond. Don't want to get added to the 'spam file'.

He has not been identified as Tad yet. I personally don't think he is, just from the content of his comments. Doesn't have the smug, catty assertions of obvious counterfactuals.

Also, Tad shat up the comments a couple of days ago with a bunch of one-off aliases, at the same time "Tom Joad" was lying and being generally useless, but not outright syphilitic.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 1:58 PM  

Hey Tom...

Did the north invade Delaware?

Did Delaware free its slaves during the war?

No?

Good. So shut up.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 1:58 PM  

Growing up in the South I believed the propaganda about how smart, enlightened, and well-educated yankees were. Then I lived in New England. Suffice to say that yankee rednecks in their ugly, backward, intolerant, ignorant xenophobia make southern rednecks look kindly, decent, intelligent, cultured, and welcoming by contrast.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:00 PM  

Hey Tom, what about the North that profited that nice 23% cut for doing nothing but sitting in the port like a bridge troll collecting tolls, and spent all that nice money to build stuff for themselves?

Hey Tom, what about the blacks enslaving blacks as we speak?

Blogger Harold July 03, 2015 2:01 PM  

I have direct line ancestors who fought on both sides in the Civil War, or the War Between the States, or whatever you wish to call it. Confederate symbols were added to various state flags by racist DEMOCRAT governors and legislatures in the 1900's, well after the end of that war. And on those flags, they are/were indisputably racist symbols, and I have no trouble with non-racist REPUBLICAN governors and legislatures removing them from the state flags. They all should have been very aggressive in pointing out they were removing DEMOCRAT symbols of racism, but they weren't.

OTOH, removing Confederate flags from historical sites such as Fort Sumter is just plain stupid. In those types of places, the flags are an integral part of history, and erasing history is never a good thing.

As for what NASCAR does, I don't give a crap. Amazon, OTOH, has gone way overboard. Removing civil war games because the packaging shows the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia? Can't get much more stupid then that. History!!! It's part of the game!

Me? I currently live in the north, in NY, in an area that sent a whole lot of men to fight for the Union side. I won't ever fly a symbol of the CSA in my yard, or wear it on my clothing. You can tell me all you want about how the average Confederate soldier wasn't fighting for slavery, he was fighting for his state, and I'll even half believe that. Trouble is, the leaders of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis, John C. Calhoun, and others, all left written evidence that the war was about- keeping slavery as an intact institution. Doesn't matter why PVT Smith of the Army of Northern Virginia is fighting the war; it does matter as to why President Davis of the CSA started it. So I see it as a symbol of treason. Also doesn't help that anyone I've met in my life from the North who has a Confederate flag flying, or one tattooed on their bicep, or wore it on a t-shirt, has been some sort of an asshole who I don't want to associate with. The three places in my county where I see the Confederate flag flying on a regular basis are two house trailers needing serious work, and a motorcycle club HQ that is a constant source of police reports.

The state, whether a state or the federal government, should, IMHO, be displaying symbols of the Confederacy only where they have historical significance. Fort Sumter, Gettysburg, Appomattox, places like that. Individuals should be able to fly or display them wherever they are. And others should be free to have their opinion on the type of person who would do so.

Blogger aut0062matthew July 03, 2015 2:03 PM  

Nate: Did the north invade Delaware?

Tom Joad thinks words (and words of politicians, at that) speak louder than actions.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:03 PM  

Hey Nate, I've been pondering something, I think you may be able to shed light on it.

The North invaded New Orleans early on in the war. I'm positive that the reason for that was money.

I'm willing to bet that the Union army, once they pacified New Orleans, were pretty quick about getting that local economy restarted and getting those shipping lanes back open, provided they got their cut, and that that operation was ongoing through the war.

Seems relevant to the topic, too!

Blogger Eraser July 03, 2015 2:03 PM  

And as a second-generation immigrant, she should never have been permitted a position of influence, let alone authority.

Ann Coulter was right: “I’d really like to like Nikki Haley since she is a Republican, but on the other hand, she’s an immigrant and does not understand America’s history,”


Vox, I'm with you on a lot of stuff. I've been preaching for years against PC and SJWs to anyone who will listen (and I also lump environmentalists and save-the-whales types in the same bag). But I can't wrap my head around some of your broad-brush ideas about race and immigration.

Maybe some of this stuff hits me rather personally (I am a Latin American immigrant, not to the US, but to Europe). It's the generalizing. Not all "Latinos" are progressives who will always vote for more welfare. Actually, the way things are going in Europe, I'd guess Latin America has proportionately more conservative Catholics than in many European countries.

Going back to immigrants and positions of influence: Many immigrants value the culture and history of their new home much more than some natives do. They are there, after all, by choice and not by accident of birth.

Last, doesn't this stuff (I'm talking more about race here) make it too easy for opponents to paint a "racist" sign on your back?

Anonymous Shutup, Tad July 03, 2015 2:05 PM  

88. Tom Joad July 03, 2015 1:26 PM

Who's Tad?
And why are y'all so eager to silence dissent?


Tad is a veteran troll who has become a mascot of sorts. He shows up with different names now.
He is the poster boy for making bald assertions with nothing to back it up, ignores points supported by facts that contradict these assertions, but continues to spew the same goop over and over anyway.

In short, a rude, socially autistic bore.

That is not dissent.

Ergo, shutup Tom .

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2015 2:07 PM  

The War between the States was about economics. However, that debate is long over and irrelevant.

What is relevant today? How many black babies are aborted every day? According to blackgenocide.org, on average 1,876 black babies are aborted every day. Why isn't that being talked about by the MSM?

Answer: Because it isn't politically useful to the establishment.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:08 PM  

It's the generalizing. Not all "Latinos"

Here's a free hint, champ: 'Generally' doesn't mean 'all'.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 2:09 PM  

Also... there was nothing dear about the institution of slavery to the South. It as dying a slow economic death and the south was content with that. The South was very scared of a mass instant end of slavery... largely because of what happened in Haiti. It was big news all over America when that happened and it made an impact in a big way.

here are some more facts for you...

Less than 5% of whites owned slaves.

35% of blacks owned slaves.

In 1860 more than 55% of the blacks in the United States were Freemen.

Lee wasn't fighting for slavery. Grant wasn't fighting against slavery.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:10 PM  

The War between the States was about economics. However, that debate is long over and irrelevant.

It's playing itself out in modern times, just the same. It's always one bloc of people that try to make another bloc of people pay a disproportionate amount of the tab for an increasing amount of things they don't even want, until the weight tips over.

Economics is never irrelevant.

Blogger kh123 July 03, 2015 2:13 PM  

"...[The terms between North and South] were settled a long time ago. Now a bunch of socially retarded fools want to retroactively add some more terms so they can feel good about themselves."

If SJWs feel a real need to flex nuts, they could always go international and take the same approach with Japan, tell them to drop any flag that sports the meatball, and demand demolition of the Yasukuni Shrine.

Besides the rest of southeast Asia, quite a few ABCs (as well as Koreans) would be on board with it, which is a plus since they tend to steer clear of white devil political causes. Hell, you could even get that fat idiot Arthur Chu to lead the charge, just hand him a phone and lay down enough track for him to go at it head first, ramming speed.

Anonymous Huckleberry July 03, 2015 2:13 PM  

Maybe some of this stuff hits me rather personally (I am a Latin American immigrant, not to the US, but to Europe). It's the generalizing. Not all "Latinos" are progressives who will always vote for more welfare

Special Snowflake is Special.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 2:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 2:14 PM  

"The North invaded New Orleans early on in the war. I'm positive that the reason for that was money."

An argument could be made that the existence of the port at New Orleans is actually what caused the North to invade in the first place. Lincoln was terrified of the potential of New Orleans as a port city. He had a fear of basically all the goods going there or coming from there. Once when asked by a newspaper man why the North should care if the South leaves... he brought up New Orleans.. and said if it were to happen the South would eliminate all tariffs and the port of New York would fall to ruin.

The was about money and power. The same things all wars are about. The yankees had been screwing the south for decades before the war with their bullshit American System of tariffs. That is what caused the war. Slavery was a point of disagreement... and not even the major one. As proven by the fact that Delaware stayed in the Union and kept its slaves.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 2:15 PM  

"Confederates today and then were and are bigoted genocidal racist white trash. They deserve either the rope or be caged. "

I live in Southern Alabama. I'm easy to find. Come try.

Anonymous zen0 July 03, 2015 2:16 PM  

@ 120. Eraser

> Many immigrants value the culture and history of their new home much more than some natives do. They are there, after all, by choice and not by accident of birth.

Easy to say, but what we see is a stadium full of latinos benefiting from being in the States but rooting rabidly for the Mexican national soccer team against the US national Soccer team.

What we see is crowds of the same people marching in Cinco de Mayo demonstrations.

What we see is La Raza.

One snowflake does not a general argument make.

Anonymous LES July 03, 2015 2:17 PM  

If the South had not seceded there would not have been a war. The war was to prevent Southern states from forming a new country.

Lincoln was like an abusive husband, "If you leave, I will kill you."

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 2:18 PM  

Confederates today and then were and are bigoted genocidal racist white trash. They deserve either the rope or be caged.

Pretty strong words. Applicable to SJW's, for sure, but I don't think Confederates.

Blogger Eric July 03, 2015 2:18 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 2:20 PM  

Nate: "Slavery was a point of disagreement... and not even the major one."

Then how do you explain the major role slavery played in the articles of secession drafted by so many Confederate states?

And Deleware is a meaningless distraction. By 1860, more than 90 percent of blacks in Delaware were free men. It was illegal for Delaware to sell slaves or import them.

Anonymous Shutup,..... Tom July 03, 2015 2:20 PM  

128. Tom Joad July 03, 2015 2:13 PM

Confederates today and then were and are bigoted genocidal racist white trash. They deserve either the rope or be caged. Sherman had the right idea.


Tom, Tom, Tom. What has become of you? Where is the sweet voice of reason we have come to expect.

Maybe you should take a timeout and think about your behavior.

Blogger Eraser July 03, 2015 2:21 PM  

T:
Here's a free hint, champ: 'Generally' doesn't mean 'all'.

Vox didn't say 'generally'. He said 'never' to immigrants in positions of influence. Even 2nd. gen, who are nearly natives anyway (born in the country, speak the language as natives).

Anonymous Joe July 03, 2015 2:21 PM  

@108. VD

That seems mystical.

What is the spirit of America that 2nd and 3rd generation Americans are unable to understand?

And what are 4th+ generation Americans - eg, JFK/RFK/EMK's children - able to understand (whether they do or not) about the spirit of America that their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents could not understand?

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:21 PM  

Tom Joad, having lost on all points, proceeds to ignore all of the criticisms directed at him and leap into frothing, foaming at the mouth anger and hatred for the bigots.

"Damn the torpedoes!" What an appropriate quote!

And Nate, that's exactly what I was thinking, but my broader point is this: Did the Union get all those slaves surrounding New Orleans back to work, and get that port running again, raking in their tax dollars?

Basically, did they take New Orleans so they could get those slaves back to work, shippin' out goods so Washington could get its cut?

Because with the blockade, New Orleans was crippled as a port city...so if the Union invaded it and restarted the economy...with slave labor...hmm...

Anonymous Tom Joad July 03, 2015 2:22 PM  

By the way, I did NOT write the statement attributed to me at #128. I would appreciate if that post was deleted — or at least the name changed.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2015 2:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2015 2:24 PM  

"By the way, I did NOT write the statement attributed to me at #128. I would appreciate if that post was deleted — or at least the name changed."

Someone's trolling the troll . . .?

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:26 PM  

Vox didn't say 'generally'. He said 'never' to immigrants in positions of influence.

Not all urban black teens murder and rob other people. In fact, you can perhaps say most don't.

Does that make it a good idea to walk down an alley in New Orleans at midnight?

Blogger Jack Ward July 03, 2015 2:27 PM  

128. Tom Joad July 03, 2015 2:13 PM

Yeah, Tom, come on over. Northeast of Birmingham, AL. In one of my other lives I worked with the Marines in Nam. Be glad to trade moves with you. Just for the fun of it,,,of course.

Blogger Salt July 03, 2015 2:28 PM  

All these modern day Africans, wanting to emmigrate here for many and various reasons, to a place where once slavers (of many nationalities) forcibly brought their bretheren. If coming here is so sought after, seems logical those who got here first, having more time to assimitiate and walk the road to civilization, should thank their lucky stars.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 2:29 PM  

Well Tom, maybe you should get to work explaining why the south needs to be erased from history for evil, but it was okay for the North to jack up the tariff and profit from slave labor, using it to build up northern infrastructure.

Perhaps you should explain why it's okay for black Americans to embrace their African cultural heritage, which involved and involves slavery to this very day, but white Southerners are not allowed to have a history or culture.

Blogger Salt July 03, 2015 2:31 PM  

Does that make it a good idea to walk down an alley in New Orleans at midnight?

Used to live down there, in the area. Half the people you come into contact with are armed. I'd say the better question would be, is it a good idea to start some shit in an alley in New Orleans at midnight?

Blogger Eraser July 03, 2015 2:32 PM  

zen0:
Easy to say, but what we see is a stadium full of latinos benefiting from being in the States but rooting rabidly for the Mexican national soccer team against the US national Soccer team.

You must take soccer WAY more seriously than I do. Just let them cheer, immigrating does not mean forgetting where you are from.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2015 2:32 PM  

"And why are y'all so eager to silence dissent?"

There is no one here who is eager to do any such thing, but as you are finding out, "Vox Popoli is not an echo chamber, but it is also not the typical Internet cesspool where you can expect to get away with spouting factual nonsense or blatant illogic with impunity. You are expected to back up your assertions, so don't be surprised if you happen to get called on them."

You'll learn. One way or another, you'll learn.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 2:33 PM  

The first invasion of the Orleans district by these uSA was to make sure that the Republic of West Florida knew who is master. The flag of the Republic of West Florida is better known as the Bonnie Blue Flag.

Anonymous Geoff July 03, 2015 2:35 PM  

Based on the map below, the USA should break up into three parts:

1. The Left coast (west of the Rockies)
2. The Blue States around the Great Lakes (maybe join Canada).
3. The Rest, aka the Red States

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

Blogger MidKnight (#138) July 03, 2015 2:36 PM  

@VD
Ann Coulter was right: “I’d really like to like Nikki Haley since she is a Republican, but on the other hand, she’s an immigrant and does not understand America’s history,”

OK, I'm the first generation born here - but my dad served, my grandparents fought as partizans against communists, and my parents had the house full of american history which I cut my teeth on. I was raised in the south. I cherish this place, and cannot imagine living anywhere else, and loathe those who wish to remake it into some nanny state. I understand the pride behind the flag.

But overall, I think you're right. Too many first and second gen immigrants aren't raised as "americans" - especially these days - and even the ones who's families have reason to fear tyranny, etc., have forgotten their own past.

Hell - too many people in the 3rd or higher generations these days don't understand what's so special, and don't "get" being american.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 2:37 PM  

And, yet, no less than Lincoln, in his 1st inaugural address stated his spport for the Corwin Amendment (he lied about not having seen it). Lincoln, throught the war, to the day he died, was still working on sending blacks to other shores.

Blogger David-093 July 03, 2015 2:41 PM  

I wish people today werent so goddamn socially autistic that we didnt have add a disclaimer to every generalization.

Guy: "Americans like the color blue."
Tard: "Oh yeah? Well im an American and I like red!"

Blogger David-093 July 03, 2015 2:43 PM  

"immigrating does not mean forgetting where you are from."

And that right there is why the West is in this mess, because immigrants actually believe that.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) July 03, 2015 2:47 PM  

@Tom Joad
Southern "pride" and racism are one and the same. The South was built on racism; the Confederacy dedicated to it.

Even in defeat, the South managed to perpetuate a systemic racism whose effects linger even now.


Oh, you again?

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 2:47 PM  

"And Deleware is a meaningless distraction. By 1860, more than 90 percent of blacks in Delaware were free men. It was illegal for Delaware to sell slaves or import them."

its not a meaningless distraction. The claim that the United States gave a damn about ending slavery is thoroughly destroyed by the fact that Delaware was allowed to keeps its slaves.

And why was it allowed to keep its slaves?

Because it sent troops to invade the South.


Why the South seceded... and what the War was over... are two very different things. The North could've shutup completely about Slavery... and the South would've still Seceded.

Here are some more facts... the confederate congress made it law that all free blacks fighting for the confederacy would get the same pay as whites. They got the same rations as whites. In many cases they even fought together in integrated units with whites.. as well as in whole black militias run and organized by their own.

Yankees didn't pay their blacks equally to whites. They earned half what whites earned until congress stepped in in 1864.

Its easy to look back today and focus on slavery.. but the fact is it was a very complicated issue back then... when you have slave traders showing up at port with a few hundred black slaves and they say things like "You either buy these blacks or we're just going to set them loose here on the streets. oh and we may give them guns too!"

Of course they don't teach that part of it in the public school now do they?


Blogger bob k. mando July 03, 2015 2:49 PM  

2. Nate July 03, 2015 10:46 AM
We're all confederates now.



driving around rural Indiana / Ohio, i see battle flags all the time.

you remember those lantern jockeys, that are always painted in white face now?

i see them like they were in Fla when i was growing up, in black face and thick red lips. kind of weirds me out.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=palemoon&q=lantern+jockey&ia=images


4. Huckleberry July 03, 2015 10:51 AM
I'm banking the Stars and Bars are more dear to more hearts than The Car Of Tomorrow.


the CoT is the car of Yesterday. the CoT, ie - 5th gen, had the wing on the back instead of a spoiler. and everybody hated it.

6th gen / spoiler has been in effect since 2013. and nobody much cares about it one way or the other.

although, if we had to pick between Brain France and the Dukes, we're going to take the Dukes every time.



11. Dave July 03, 2015 11:03 AM
Huck did you see the BS SJW statement nascar eventually released? I hope their fans slam em hard conf flags covering Daytona


the hell with that, did you see the bitch ass statement Junior made?

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/06/26/nascar-dale-earnhardt-jr-calls-confederate-flag-offensive-to-entire-race/

^
^
funny thing is, that was posted at NASCAR.com yesterday ... but they've pulled it down.

doesn't really matter though. Junior is not Senior and will never be mistaken for Senior.

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2015/6/30/dale-earnhardt-jr-sonoma-racing-tony-stewart.html



16. Whitey McWhite July 03, 2015 11:16 AM
They also understand suckers. If a politician back-stabs you and you don't punish them, they'll diagnose you as one.
...
When a politician back-stabs you, you have to deafen your ears and deliver the punishment. There's no other practical option.



true dat.



17. Patrick July 03, 2015 11:18 AM
When is the next NASCAR event where we will see the new policy play out?



uhhhhh, this weekend at Daytona?

they're not going with a full ban, because they "didn't give people time to make their plans". but they are offering free US flags as substitutes to anyone with the battle flag.

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2015 2:51 PM  

Reason Magazine is a pro-illegal immigrant, gay libertarian bathhouse.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 2:51 PM  

" Lincoln, throught the war, to the day he died, was still working on sending blacks to other shores."

Correct. The second he was shot there was a plan on his desk to send the blacks to panama to dig the canal

Anonymous Joe July 03, 2015 2:51 PM  

148. Eraser

Vox's position goes far beyond zen0's example.

Vox specifically cited Edward Kennedy whose great-grandparents were immigrants and generally referred to 2nd and 3rd generation Americans who "believe themselves to love and be loyal to America".

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 2:53 PM  

Eraser, I am latino., from Puerto Rico. We learned real well the trade triangle: slaving ships built in the northeast, owned by rich folks from the northeast, carrying rum distilled by folks in the northeast, to trade for slaves captured by other blacks, to be sold and exchanged for molasses, to return to the northeast. At every leg of the journey, the ship's owner(s) got a cut of the goods.

The flag that flew over those ships was uSA's. Not a single Confederate flag ever flew on those ships.

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2015 2:55 PM  

I want to know why all these anti-Confederate Flag people, hate Native Americans so much. A lot of Native Americans fought for the Confederacy.

Blogger Eraser July 03, 2015 2:57 PM  

Not all urban black teens murder and rob other people. In fact, you can perhaps say most don't. Does that make it a good idea to walk down an alley in New Orleans at midnight?

Of course not. But would you throw away someone like Thomas Sowell because some black teens rob and murder? (by the way, lock them up and throw away the key)

Hell - too many people in the 3rd or higher generations these days don't understand what's so special, and don't "get" being american.

This. At some point it doesn't make sense to differentiate anymore. Leftist propaganda in the media and in schools affects natives and immigrants alike.

And that right there is why the West is in this mess, because immigrants actually believe that.

David, you're asking for the impossible. Even if you lived in a foreign country for half a century, you would never forget the place where you were born and raised.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2015 2:57 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 03, 2015 2:58 PM  

Many immigrants value the culture and history of their new home much more than some natives do. They are there, after all, by choice and not by accident of birth.

That might have been true before illegal aliens could get social security disability. Now people come to the US because welfare provides a better lifestyle then they could achieve on merit in their homeland.

Not all urban black teens murder and rob other people. In fact, you can perhaps say most don't.

Eric holder was nice enough to point out that 1 out of 3 voting age black males are felons when he fought the FL Felon No Vote Law

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 2:59 PM  

I almost forgot.


"Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand."

Robert E. Lee

Blogger VD July 03, 2015 3:01 PM  

What is the spirit of America that 2nd and 3rd generation Americans are unable to understand?

Limited government and unalienable rights.

And what are 4th+ generation Americans - eg, JFK/RFK/EMK's children - able to understand (whether they do or not) about the spirit of America that their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents could not understand?

Most of them don't get it either. You have to recall that the Common Law, which is at the core of the US Revolutionary spirit and "the rights of Englishmen", is completely foreign to all the other European immigrants. The Germans and the Scandinavians who settled the Midwest have NEVER grasped those principles. Nor did the later Italians, Irish, and Jews.

Anonymous 334 July 03, 2015 3:02 PM  

Also, Tad shat up the comments a couple of days ago with a bunch of one-off aliases, at the same time "Tom Joad" was lying and being generally useless, but not outright syphilitic.

Peed myself laughing over this. Never say the Ilk cannot turn a phrase with the best of them.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) July 03, 2015 3:03 PM  



@Jack Amock

Two, y'all (yawl, you all) know I'm no Southron, but I feel like an unwritten agreement was breached last week. When the war ended, the South was told it could keep it's pride and whatever parts of it's culture it could make work without slavery. Southerners couldn't have their own country, but they could remain their own people.

Well said

@rcocean

Lidsay Graham may not be as reprehensible in absolute terms as Ted Kennedy, but I still have no love for the man.


@VFM

Growing up in the South I believed the propaganda about how smart, enlightened, and well-educated yankees were. Then I lived in New England. Suffice to say that yankee rednecks in their ugly, backward, intolerant, ignorant xenophobia make southern rednecks look kindly, decent, intelligent, cultured, and welcoming by contrast.

Amen.

Anonymous rws July 03, 2015 3:03 PM  

We should also remember that the legal slave trade into the US ended on January 1, 1806. After that time slavers were considered pirates and subject to execution.

Course, that didn't stop the entrepreneurs. After all, it's always about the money.

Blogger YIH July 03, 2015 3:03 PM  

The other day Vox mentioned Rod Dreher. As you might guess he's weighed in on the subject:
On several occasions in the past, I have defended the display of the Confederate battle flag. I have never displayed it myself, and would not display it.
Standard beginning disclaimer.
After the South Carolina massacre, I thought about the only person I personally know who displays the Confederate flag. I believe him to be a genuine racist, based on things he has said. A visiting black friend of mine from New Orleans, driving around our area, saw the flag on the way to our house, and I was embarrassed by it. I didn’t want him to think that we were all like that white racist.
Sounds like someone who currently lives in Baton Rouge LA (but has spent most of his life and career away from it) but is more that a bit ashamed about it and it's traditions (from a *snort* ''traditionalist'' no less).
I still would have been troubled that the appearance of such would have offended my black friend. Yesterday, all that came to mind again, and I concluded that the Confederate flag has become impossible for most people to see as symbolizing anything other than white supremacy. Therefore, it cannot be redeemed. Therefore it should be retired from public display, except in clearly historical settings (e.g., museums, Civil War cemeteries, historical re-enactments), and then only in a limited way.
Sounds like someone who thinks his own race (and home state/town) is nothing but irredeemably evil - except, of course, maybe the food and music.
In fact, it sounds like the sensibilities of a writer from NYC, Miami, Dallas, Philly, LA and DC. I think that covers them all.
He's no more Southerner or Louisianan than Bobby Jindal or any tourist in New Orleans.
Hartiste coined a nice term for someone like that: cuckservative.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 3:07 PM  

What was Lincoln's view on emancipation in 1861, after his 1st inaugural's non-interference statement?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9mont_Emancipation

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 3:11 PM  

rws. Jim Bowie comes to mind. He had quite a racket down Noorleans.

Anonymous LES July 03, 2015 3:12 PM  

Jewish Involvement In Black Slave Trade To The Americas

Blogger Vogon X July 03, 2015 3:14 PM  

Je suis la confédération

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 3:15 PM  

Lets not forget the northern Black Codes, on which the Jim Crow laws were based.

Blogger Eraser July 03, 2015 3:17 PM  

161. Joe
That's not specific to immigrants. Millions of genuine americans would fail that same test (you call them "progressives"). I'd argue those principles aren't even being taught anymore.

BigGaySteve:
That might have been true before illegal aliens could get social security disability. Now people come to the US because welfare provides a better lifestyle then they could achieve on merit in their homeland.

I can agree with that. Immigration plus generous welfare is a terrible combination (see: Europe). Immigration plus no welfare plus functioning law enforcement means that the immigrants who stay will be the decent and hard-working ones.

Blogger David-093 July 03, 2015 3:18 PM  

What would Lincoln have done had he lived his second term?

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 3:23 PM  

Of course not. But would you throw away someone like Thomas Sowell because some black teens rob and murder?

Thomas Sowell isn't elected. So...let me fix your analogy for you.

Would I throw away Bobby Jindal as Governor and other Wonder-Immigrant Elected Republicans in return for restricting the franchise to those with a stakehold in our culture and civilization?

Yes.

Anonymous Joe July 03, 2015 3:24 PM  

168. VD

"Most of them don't get it either."

True. FDR was a 4th+ generation American.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 3:29 PM  

@179 shack up with his boyfriend.

Blogger aut0062matthew July 03, 2015 3:29 PM  

Tom Joad: By the way, I did NOT write the statement attributed to me at #128. I would appreciate if that post was deleted — or at least the name changed.

Checks out. Will delete.

Blogger aut0062matthew July 03, 2015 3:31 PM  

To whomever falsely commented as "Tom Joad":

If you're trying to help, that's not the way.

If you're trying to cause strife, stop.

Blogger Sad Puppy July 03, 2015 3:32 PM  

Keep an eye on Stone Mountain Georgia. There is a massive Confederate memorial carved into the mountain itself. The SJWs are already baying about doing something about it.

Blogger aut0062matthew July 03, 2015 3:35 PM  

"What would Lincoln have done had he lived his second term?"

Bitten many more pillows.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 03, 2015 3:36 PM  

It's the generalizing.

A generalization is just a useful way to simplify the complex so that it can be handled. The problem is taking the generalization personally.

It doesn't matter that there might be X% of immigrants who can understand the concept of America and would make good politicians. What matters is that the X is too low, which means we have to put up with a lot of bad ones in hopes of getting that special snowflake. Why not just say they can be citizens but not office-holders? Don't we have enough long-time natives to do that job? We need fewer government drones anyway.

Living in a nation, even legally, shouldn't imply the right to do everything in that nation. It didn't used to. We still have the restriction that only those born in the US can be president, and there used to be more restrictions than that. When Europe had Catholic nations, non-Catholics generally could live in them, but had restrictions on what they could do. They might be allowed to worship as they liked privately, but not proselytize in public, for instance. They might not be allowed to hire Catholics as servants. They certainly couldn't hold leadership positions. Many chose to live under those restrictions anyway.

If I, a white Midwesterner, moved to Japan and legally became a Japanese citizen, I wouldn't assume that meant I could run for office there. I'd expect to be treated fairly under the law, but I wouldn't complain if the laws treated immigrants or N-generation descendants of immigrants differently than the natives. That would just be sensible. No matter how much I loved my new home, I wouldn't know it as well as they.

Blogger kh123 July 03, 2015 3:37 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous T July 03, 2015 3:39 PM  

If they touch Stone Mountain, it seems like that would truly cause the feces to hit the fan.

Which is, of course, exactly why they'd go for it. They're trying to rub Southerners' wounds until they're raw, to gin up the Balkanization.

They've been baying for years and decades about their imaginary redneck white supremacist theocratic enemy, and now that the SJWs are being exposed and personalized, they are probably in a rush to go ahead and expose the evil White Devil to counterattack.

This is going to get ugly. They're clearly in a rush to start painting traditional American culture as the new target.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2015 3:44 PM  

Stone mountain? wow

Mt. Rushmore on the other hand.

Anonymous Realist July 03, 2015 3:49 PM  

I just heard that the country band, Confederate Railroad, was cancelled from performing at the Durham Fair (Durham CT) due to their name. This has reached the level of mass hysteria.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2015 3:53 PM  

I have had Shelby Foote's history of the Civil War sitting on my shelf for a number of years now, but have never gotten around to reading it. Is anyone around here familiar with the work and is it worth my while? Thanks.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2015 3:54 PM  

I agree the South should have allowed to secede . Losing 300,000 men to keep a bunch of slave holders in the USA was insane. No doubt when the South hooked up with the Big city ethnics to give us 20 years of FDR and Truman many Northerners regretted their Grand-daddies didn't let the South go. And if they didn't regret it then, maybe they regretted it after LBJ and Jimmy Carter. Too bad the South didn't try to secede peacefully instead of attacking Fort Sumter and trying to force Kentucky, MO, and Maryland into their confederacy at the point of gun. Not to mention oppressing the people of East Tennessee and West Virginia who wanted now part of their slave republic.

Blogger Thordaddy July 03, 2015 3:55 PM  

We need two standard dictionaries...

One for the Supremacists and one for the anti-Supremacists.

When one side's basic metric is Perfection and the other side's murky metric is total transgression then even though we use the same rulers, "we" are seeing entirely different numbers.

Blogger Parrothead Al July 03, 2015 3:57 PM  

13th generation Southron on my mothers side (Virginia, Georgia, Texas). Not shopping at Walmart, buying flag and flag decals as soon as they are available. Placed an order at Cafe Press only to receive an email that the order was canceled due to decision to stop selling all Confederate items. Responded that I would never buy anything from them again. No response. Cowards and idiots.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 03, 2015 4:06 PM  

The Taliban destroyed the Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan with artillery. Stone Mountain could be handled the same way. Mt. Rushmore too, come to think of it.

Blogger Groot July 03, 2015 4:08 PM  

@70. The Remnant July 03, 2015 12:57 PM:
"Of course, the real reason for a witch hunt against all things Confederate is the growing rhetoric of disobedience to, and secession from, the unconstitutional monstrosity choking the life out of us. ... The slavery they practiced was limited, allowed for manumission, and would have expired naturally; the slavery they fought to prevent was universal, perpetual, and merciless."

Well said, sir! The statists' hypocritical posturing on race only seeks to distract from their bone-deep aversion to freedom and their yearning for a return of feudalism. They see themselves as a new nobility, morally superior and born to rule. I know, even the rainbow-haired twinks!

Blogger Doc Rampage July 03, 2015 4:17 PM  

I can't imagine why so many non-Southerners care about the flag. I don't. To me the whole debate is just about tactics. For decades now, Southern Democrat politicians have been using the Confederate flag to garner support from Southern conservatives, adding it to state flags, flying it at the state capital, and other things. The media is always silent as death about these events. Then as soon as a Republican governor comes it, the media turns it into a controversy; forcing the Republican governor to either support the flag so they can call him a racist, or remove the flag so he loses support from conservatives. It's a deliberate trap that Democrats create for Republicans.

I remember when Democrats introduced the federal "school lunch program" under Reagan. It was an obviously stupid program --if parents are letting their kids go to school hungry then the kids have much bigger problems than just nutrition, and it's obviously a problem for the local government--and the natural Republican response was to say so and to veto it. But Reagan recognized that it was a trap. He could explain why it was as stupid idea and veto it, but he knew that forever after his reasons would be ignored and the only thing that anyone would ever hear on TV or in newspapers or in history books was that Reagan caused children to go hungry. So Reagan supported the legislation and ruined the Democrat plan to demonize him.

To any non-southerner, this flag issue is similar. It's a tactical decision as to how to respond the the Democrat trap. Nikki Haley came down on the same side I probably would have. Who cares, let them have a meaningless symbol. My only complaint is that she failed to stress that the flag was there because the Democrats put it there.

On the other hand, I never would have been elected governor of a southern state.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 03, 2015 4:18 PM  

But would you throw away someone like Thomas Sowell because some black teens rob and murder? (by the way, lock them up and throw away the key)

You're the only one talking about throwing people away. There are only 50 governors in the nation; it's not throwing people away to say they can't be one. Sowell is a good example, though: doesn't he manage to contribute to his nation without holding high office? Would we be better off if he were the governor of some state? Maybe, maybe not. If it kept him from writing as often, probably not. But just think: if Sowell were barred from holding high office, how many really bad politicians could we have avoided with the same rule?

For what it's worth, I'd be more inclined to bar what's-her-name from high office for being a woman than for being a whatever-generation immigrant, though both reasons are valid. Her sex probably had more to do with her caving in to the feelbads than anything else. Putting women in charge of anything larger than a tea social is insane.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2015 4:25 PM  

shut up, Thordaddy

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