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Tuesday, July 21, 2015

Don't laugh, it will happen everywhere

Greeks don't appear to be inclined to provide their banks with any more unsecured loans:
President of Greek Banks Association Louka Katseli appealed at the citizens to return their money to the banks. “Banks are absolutely trustworthy,” Katseli told Mega TV “as guaranteed by the ECB and the Bank Association, but they would have been even more powerful if 40 billion euros had not been withdrawn in the last months.

Katseli, a former PASOK Minister, appealed to citizens to return their deposits  to the banks “now that the banks are open” after a three-week holiday and capital controls.

“Let’s all help our economy,” Katseli urged Greeks and added “If you take your money out of your chests and houses – which are not safe in any case – and deposit at banks, this will enhance liquidity.”

Katseli’s appeal triggered laughter among Greeks and one stressed with hint to capital controls “Oh yes! I will bring my money back to the bank and get it back 60 by 60 euro.”

Another one noted “Ah sure! Banks will never see my money again, I prefer to buy tonnes of peanuts with it.”

A third commented “Certainly. And the banks will go bust after a while…”

A fourth reckoned a very unfortunate incident in 2010 and busted into tears and laughter. Back then Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos had appealed to the Greeks to buy Greek bonds. The man invested 10,000 euro to help Greece. Two years later, his investment underwent a 53%-Haircut due to the PSI. Now the nominal value of his investment is … “I don’t even open the envelopes coming from the bank anymore, too frustrating,” he told me.
We are witnessing the slow death of the global financial system. While the elites fantasize about the idea of electronic money that can be controlled at all times, everywhere, they had better remember that their whole plan depends upon keeping the masses fat and happy.

Because these days, no one is untouchable.

Labels:

174 Comments:

Anonymous Stilicho July 21, 2015 12:04 PM  

Let's see, put your money somewhere the thieves have to find and then break into or put your money in a place that known thieves already control? Decisions, decisions...

Anonymous Rolf July 21, 2015 12:05 PM  

Sure the banks are trustworthy. I trust them to be the play-things of idiot politicians.
And the bankers running them are trustworthy. I can trust them to be greedy, short-sighted, stupid, self-centered, corrupt, lying, hypocritical, the players of idiot politicians, and in need of a gibbet.

Anonymous Paul (#0348) July 21, 2015 12:08 PM  

Louka Katseli:

Same as you! Same as YOU! I throw the ball to who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't give a darn!

Budka Abotsalis: What?

Louka: I said I don't give a darn!

Budka: Oh, that's our shortstop.

OpenID mickoneverything July 21, 2015 12:08 PM  

I've been warning people in person and in print to get their money out of banks. It still galls me that pur government has the stones to prosecute ponzi schemes.

Anonymous 360 July 21, 2015 12:09 PM  

If it's in your hands, it's not in theirs. This applies to all things, money, data, etc.

Anonymous zen0 July 21, 2015 12:14 PM  

Canary/Coal Mine.

I know of at least one guy that had to crawl around in his back yard on moonless nights to make deposits and withdrawals.

Of course, he was a "person of interest" to the FBI. Soon, we will all be " persons of interest."

Anonymous Recipe July 21, 2015 12:15 PM  

So where does one keep their money once you take it out of the bank?

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan July 21, 2015 12:25 PM  

So where does one keep their money once you take it out of the bank?
Next to the loaded shotgun.

OpenID vfm360 July 21, 2015 12:33 PM  

@Recipe

Um, where ever you want?

Blogger hank.jim July 21, 2015 12:36 PM  

The next question is which currency is the safest and easiest to barter.

I may need to invest in a fireproof safe.

Blogger Nate July 21, 2015 12:39 PM  

ya know the video of the snaggle tooth guy with the crazy high pitched laugh? We need that... with him being a greek who is telling about the time they asked him to give his money back to the bank.

OpenID probabilitybroach July 21, 2015 12:42 PM  

Well, since the TriLateralists want 90% of the population dead I wouldn't count on the "masses fat and happy" concept. Additionally, the system is almost cashless and they are pushing strong to get there. Maybe 20 years at the outside, and places like Britain and Switzerland will be the first there. Also, 'cash' is a problem for banks, small depositors and their cash are net losers for them, so... draw your own conclusions.

OpenID vfm360 July 21, 2015 12:44 PM  

Even if the system was cashless what would stop the common man from using some other form of currency?

Blogger JartStar July 21, 2015 12:46 PM  

The latest deal was a joke adding VAT of 1% of GDP to a country who will never be able to pay it's current debt.

If Greece leaves their pension program will take a massive haircut which one of the reasons so many Greeks still want to stay in the EU and euro.

Anonymous The Original Nekkid Stillers Capitaliss Fan July 21, 2015 12:48 PM  

Funnier is that in America the fluoride heads would probably go straight to the bank money in hand with what little cash they had. After all, Fox News channel bimbos would never lie.

Anonymous CunningDove July 21, 2015 12:56 PM  

And of course here in the USA it is illegal to travel with "large" amounts of cash. Since large remains undefined, it is impossible to know how much is too much to pull out of the bank at one time.

Also, some businesses may balk at taking cash for work done because if they deposit too large an amount of cash (there's that word again) then it can trigger an IRS investigation as to who their customers are that are using cash.

I'm sure many other examples exist to make one wonder about keeping cash in hand. I just know, it is a safer bet that you will lose it if you leave it in the bank.

Blogger Salt July 21, 2015 12:58 PM  

Greeks don't trust the banks. Greeks don't trust keeping their EURO in banks. Even if banks go full digital. Greeks no work for EURO but for something else.

Hello silver?

It is a slow, masochistic death by a thousand cuts.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 21, 2015 1:01 PM  

There's gotta be a Hitler video in this, where Hitler is the head of the banks, or maybe some EU head, who's bitching out his guys for letting the Greeks get their money out in the first place, and now can't believe they think the people will be suckers enough to put it back.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 1:05 PM  

I keep all my valuables in water proof containers submerged in my septic tank.

The containers look just like foot long turds.

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 21, 2015 1:06 PM  

heavy in floor safe hidden under a piece of furniture and carpet or rug. With a shot gun on top.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 1:07 PM  

You can fit a whole lot of gold American Eagles in a turd.

Anonymous BGS July 21, 2015 1:09 PM  

“If you take your money out of your chests and houses – which are not safe in any case – and deposit at banks, this will enhance liquidity.”

I don't think any robber will steal money from Bruce Jenners padded bra

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 21, 2015 1:09 PM  

Tiny add a 'safety lock' to your tanks and you've got a great system. Just have to make sure everything is really well sealed. Sounds like a winner especially for back ups to me. Are you allowed to pump your own septic in your county? That would be the only down side I could see.

Anonymous The Original Nekkid Stillers Capitaliss Fan July 21, 2015 1:10 PM  

Yes! I was just thinking Hitler video. I don't think I'll survive the Hitler video of this one, I barely survived the seizure of laughter over the new stadium in south Florida episode...

Blogger JartStar July 21, 2015 1:12 PM  

The Greeks managed to hold out for the worst deal too in a classic NFL "That's an insult!" move.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 1:14 PM  

The next question is which currency is the safest and easiest to barter.

1) US "junk silver" coins. 90% silver, large supply, readily recognizable.
2) Official US Eagle 1oz silver coins
3) Foreign 1oz 99.9% silver coins
4) other size silver coins
5) mint-stamped 1oz silver coins
6) gold coins
7) bullion

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 21, 2015 1:14 PM  

There are good reasons the Jews of Europe became diamond traders.

I love the unabashed self-contradiction. "Please! Bring your money bsck - the banks are safe!"

If they're so fucking safe then how come they're so fucking needy?

Prizzi's Banker

Anonymous VFM293 July 21, 2015 1:17 PM  

"Because these days, no one is untouchable."

Ya, its amazing where 180 grains of lead in a .30" diameter aerodynamic copper jacket can reach...

Anonymous rienzi July 21, 2015 1:23 PM  

Have you ever hired people from the hood? They don't do direct deposit because almost none of them have a bank account. They cash that paycheck in a New York minute.

Just how is the drug trade supposed to operate in a cash-free society? Malik, on the corner, doesn't take Mastercard in exchange for his rocks of crack. He doesn't take EBT cards either.

You want to explode the hood as quickly and violently as possible? Eliminate cash.

Blogger David-093 July 21, 2015 1:28 PM  

The naked, shameless and cynical begging for these people to give the rich their money is disgusting.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 1:29 PM  

@rienzi
Then you have what transpires in Appalachia, where oxycontin and cases of soda substitute for gold and silver. Once people get the idea of money, they don't forget it. If they need to conduct transactions off the books, there will be some good they can use as an independent measure of value, i.e. money.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 21, 2015 1:31 PM  

In jails, cigarettes and sex.

Anonymous BGS July 21, 2015 1:37 PM  

There are good reasons the Jews of Europe became diamond traders.

Because once you control 90% of the supply you can over charge. There is no reason to pay so much for crystalized carbon when the only way to tell if its not man made it to look for flaws in the natural ones.

Anonymous LegallySpeaking July 21, 2015 1:45 PM  

Louka Katseli reminds me of Kevin Bacon in Animal House: "Remain calm! All is well!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

Or when a President gives an embattled cabinet member a "vote of confidence." Dollars to doughnuts said cabinet member is gone pretty shortly afterwards.

History is laughing at us.

Anonymous HardReturn¶ #0030 July 21, 2015 1:49 PM  

However "aw come on guys… pretty please with honey on top" translates in Greek might have worked just as well. The empty trust that folks will remain just as gullible tomorrow as today is so quaint.
FWIW reminds me of the geezers back in '70s with their "gold"-plated Social Security cards--a worthless shiny totem of an unsustainable scheme, backed by empty promises and other peoples' money.

Blogger Alexander July 21, 2015 1:50 PM  

There are good reasons the Jews of Europe became diamond traders.

Yes - it is because racist Europeans refused to let them scratch out a living digging up potatoes and cabbage, and forced them instead to look after the precious stones and metals.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 1:51 PM  

We recently received a significant windfall.

Is there anyone here who could direct me to some quality resources for investing in gold and silver? What is the max you can buy at a time? Coins? Bars? Just basic questions, but I am a bit ignorant. We have a local place here in town.

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 21, 2015 1:57 PM  

I love these bank holiday news stories. Each one makes another group of people curious. And once they're curious they start down the road to learning how the sausage is made. It may take months or years but they eventually figure things out and after that point all their faith in the current financial system is completely undermined.

Anonymous GreyS July 21, 2015 1:58 PM  

they had better remember that their whole plan depends upon keeping the masses fat and happy.

Because these days, no one is untouchable.


It's going to be interesting because the internet changes the game for them. How long until some new Baader-Meinhof-type organization starts hunting bankers and government crooks down? I'm thinking of that (German?) govt official who they tracked and nabbed his fingerprints in protest of an onerous law. It's a small step from that to assassinations once private dirty banking deeds and private information become public. These people aren't nearly as safe as they think they are.

Anonymous ticticboom July 21, 2015 2:09 PM  

The typical progression of where to put your liquid assets as things go from good to bad is:
Stocks > Bonds > Munis > Treasuries > Precious Metals > ATF ( Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, especially ammo).

TPTB have suckered a lot of people into stock market the last seven or eight years, so it's gone up as bonds and munis have gone down, but that is rapidly coming to an end.

I think .22 will be the new small change soon, loosies the small bills, and jars of moonshine larger bills as things come apart.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 2:11 PM  

@Rabbi,
There are no limits in the US, but any cash transaction of more than $10,000 is reported to the treasury department. And structuring your transactions to avoid that limit is a crime.
Certain large purchases of specific coins are also reportable, I think 25 Krugerrands is the privacy limit.
The real question you need to ask yourslef is why do you want to buy precious metals. For investment? for store of value? For buying flour rice and beans when there are troops in the streets. Each of those will give a different answer as to what to buy and how to buy it.
For SHTF scenarios, you want small value, easily recognizable silver coins. For storing cash in a down economy, you want larger vaue, likely gold. Coins or bars make no difference really, except in how easy the transaction is. For investment, well, I don't think PMs are a great investment. I'll let others talk about that.

Any reputable metals dealer will be happy to talk with you about what investment makes sense for you. Just stay away from the guys who advertise on the radio.

Anonymous Difster VFM #109 July 21, 2015 2:12 PM  

“Banks are absolutely trustworthy,”

Sounds like an abusive husband begging the wife to come back. "It will be different this time baby. I've changed!"

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 2:16 PM  

@Danby

Thanks. Helpful.

Not as an investment, but more for SHTF scenarios like you mentioned. PM's don't seem like the best investment. I'll do some more research and asking around.

Blogger YIH July 21, 2015 2:16 PM  

rienzi:
Just how is the drug trade supposed to operate in a cash-free society? Malik, on the corner, doesn't take Mastercard in exchange for his rocks of crack. He doesn't take EBT cards either.
Jugs of Tide detergent. I kid you not.

Anonymous Stilicho July 21, 2015 2:19 PM  

Rabbi, did you just ask a bunch of goyim for advice on investing, in gold no less? Take a look at the Apmex website for a good overview of what's available and standard markups over spot price. My advice would be keep it physical and keep it in your possession.

Blogger Nate July 21, 2015 2:20 PM  

"Hello silver?"

how silver is not $30 an ounce I have no idea.

Anonymous Laz July 21, 2015 2:21 PM  

rienzi: "He doesn't take EBT cards either."

Wrong. They have and they will. I've seen it with my own eyes more than once.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 21, 2015 2:21 PM  

The problem with reflexive jew-hating is you idiits keep missing the point. Diamonds are small, easy to hide, easy to transport, readily tradable, relatively inflation proof, and a dense store of value.

The rest of yiur personal obsession comes after these facts.

Rabbi B; check out Peter Schiff's website. They have some good recommendations.

Take possession in direct exchange for cash. No postal arrangements, no monry in advance.

Anonymous Stilicho July 21, 2015 2:22 PM  

Rabbi, quick caveat: if you are serious about making aliyah in the near future, you may need to make other arrangements depending on where you'd want it stored: e.g. Israel vs Switzerland etc.

Anonymous Roundtine July 21, 2015 2:24 PM  

Invest in moose caca.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 21, 2015 2:28 PM  

I used to think "get a safe."

Sounds good until you discover that
1. UL rates safes for burglary-resistance.
2. The vast majority of gun safes are not so rated.
3. The only safe I found that was both UL-burglary-rated B and a firesafe and large enough to store long guns was....over 2,000 lbs.

The question of "which safe?" does not come with an easy answer.

Blogger RC July 21, 2015 2:31 PM  

@Rabbi

Two dealers with whom I've been satisfied:

http://buysilvernow.com/
http://www.apmex.com/

I still like junk silver for SHTF scenarios.
Gold coins are less hassle to sell than bars, especially large bars.

Blogger YIH July 21, 2015 2:32 PM  

@rienzi
Then you have what transpires in Appalachia, where oxycontin and cases of soda substitute for gold and silver.
At the birth of the US whiskey was a 'currency'. Does not spoil, easily tested for value. And even before that, rum.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 2:32 PM  

"Rabbi, did you just ask a bunch of goyim for advice on investing, in gold no less?"

I was waiting for that. (Just part of my super--secret- conspiratorial plan to keep y'all guessing and off balance . . . shhhh)

"Rabbi, quick caveat: if you are serious about making aliyah in the near future, you may need to make other arrangements depending on where you'd want it stored: e.g. Israel vs Switzerland etc.'

Yeah. Good point. We're actively working on aliyah right now, so I will have take that into consideration. Thanks for the reference.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) July 21, 2015 2:35 PM  

@DC, you don't want a safe that can be carried away. If you have to hire piano movers to deliver your safe, you're doing it right.

Anonymous 0007 July 21, 2015 2:35 PM  

ScuzzMan -
The fox in the hen house regarding diamonds is that the diamond market is about as real as the stock market. It is a wholly made-up and owned by the DeBeers corporation.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 2:36 PM  

Thanks RC. Favorited the references in my browser.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 2:39 PM  

It is been rumored John McCain hides his precious items in Lyndsey Graham's jacksy...

Blogger JartStar July 21, 2015 2:40 PM  

@46. Nate

I'd love to see it get to $10 an ounce.

Anonymous Laz July 21, 2015 2:41 PM  

0007: "It is a wholly made-up and owned by the DeBeers corporation."

Check your facts. If DeBeers did have a monopoly then they wouldn't have to put serial numbers on their diamonds now.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 21, 2015 2:43 PM  

Rabbi B,
If I had that I would get a chuck of it in small silver coins and also a chunk in larger denomination gold coins. I would also buy whatever weapons are allowed where you are and ammo for it. Plenty of ammo. And secure a bolt-hole in a remote area, be it mountains, a little sailboat or whatever.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 21, 2015 2:46 PM  

@DC, you don't want a safe that can be carried away. If you have to hire piano movers to deliver your safe, you're doing it right.

It doesn't matter if, with hand tools, a knowledgeable burglar can break your piano-weight safe in 10-15 minutes. UL B-rated safes must pass 30 minutes without cracking, that's all. Unrated safes in all likelihood won't make it that far.

I wonder if setting up an area-denial OC "trap" (I've seen them available on-line) that would fill a room with the stuff if triggered would be more effective than false confidence in a safe that is relatively easy to open. Since I'm not a professional criminal, I'm not sure of the answer.

Safety of storage of anything is all about time. With enough time, nothing is secure.

Blogger Nate July 21, 2015 2:49 PM  

"The question of "which safe?" does not come with an easy answer."

there are a lot of excellent options. Patriot... Cannon... get a big one... skip the biometrics... just make sure it has a great fire rating... and then bold the sumbitch to the floor.

Blogger Alexander July 21, 2015 2:52 PM  

Well... yes, and no.

If you're being robbed by a knowledgeable burglar who carries the right equipment, then that sucks. If your concern is a vibrant with the same breaking-and-entering technology as Ug the caveman, then a big heavy metal box is probably going to be fine.

Anonymous cheddarman July 21, 2015 2:52 PM  

It's going to be interesting because the internet changes the game for them. - GreyS

The internet kill switch is to make sure the rules don't change

Anonymous Difster VFM #109 July 21, 2015 3:00 PM  

I want a walk-down floor safe. Essentially a cellar with a high fire rating.

Anonymous BGS July 21, 2015 3:07 PM  

I saw something posted before about thieves having moles in some of the gold delivery services so you might want to take physical possession at their location.

get a big one...then bold the sumbitch to the floor.

What should gay safe owners do? At least you don't have to worry about the sum of all bitches cheating on you. Burying a catch in your yard, or some fake plumbing for an emergency supply wouldn't be a bad idea.

Rabbi, did you just ask a bunch of goyim for advice on investing, in gold no less?

I guess they found out about him and cut off his Soros allowance.

If DeBeers did have a monopoly then they wouldn't have to put serial numbers on their diamonds now.

That's because people are making fake flawless diamonds in their backyard. They need a way to recognize natural flawless diamonds.

Blogger Justin C July 21, 2015 3:08 PM  

"....In Soviet Russia, ...bank robs YOU!

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 3:23 PM  

PVC piping will last 1,000 years in the ground and won't leak if sealed properly.

Purge the air out with dry nitrogen (inert) from the top down (without top cap). Nitrogen will pool in the pipe while you glue and put the cap on. Test it in a pool to make sure there are no leaks.



Blogger Bluntobj Winz July 21, 2015 3:26 PM  

@roundtine:

My uncle used to make moose nugget earrings as a gag gift. A little gold spray paint and you could sell them to tourists, no problem....

Since it was Alaska we could just go and mine our own gold, but the tourist route had less variable costs.

Blogger luagha July 21, 2015 3:27 PM  

Put the safe in your burmese python habitat.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 21, 2015 3:30 PM  

"37. Rabbi B July 21, 2015 1:51 PM
...
Is there anyone here who could direct me to some quality resources for investing in gold and silver? What is the max you can buy at a time? Coins? Bars? Just basic questions, but I am a bit ignorant. We have a local place here in town.
..."


Depending on how much cash you have to convert to tangibles it may be better to do several transactions over time, on a schedule. Never too much at one time and always in cash and in person. Try to do the transaction when no other customers are in the store. Yes, I'm paranoid.

I don't think a precious metals seller would have a limit. It would be how much they had on hand rather than how much they'd be willing to sell.

But maybe you're alluding to fed regulations. In that case I don't know enough specifics.


Here's something I wrote some time ago.

Gold is for buying land. Silver is for buying groceries. Two different purposes. Gold is long term wealth preservation. Silver is daily expenses.

Even so, gold can be gotten in 1/10th ounce coins. But that's still more than I make an hour.

For those thinking about precious metals there are some things to keep in mind. In general buy coins rather than bars because coins have some qualities that make the price premium worth it. The very form of a coin is useful to communicate two things, mass of metal in the coin and the purity. Using coins makes it much easier to transact business, no need for assayer.

Only buy bars when you have enough wealth that you can safely lock some of it into bars for long term storage.

One thing you will find out, silver takes up much more cubic footage than gold for the same dollar value. And by that same metric ends up weighing more for the same dollar value though gold is denser.

Since you will be buying coins for the metal value you want to avoid paying for a numismatic premium if you can help it. Simply, the numismatic value of any coins you buy means exactly zero. Therefore you want the crappiest looking coins you can lay your hands on because you're buying money and not a collector's item. In America that means something called junk silver.

Junk silver being circulated treasury issued dollar and smaller face value silver coinage.

Anonymous KBT July 21, 2015 3:31 PM  

The investment return in a floor safe is somewhere in the neighborhood of zero.

I'll stick with real estate and covered calls on the side. I'd like to retire some day.

OpenID dalrock July 21, 2015 3:32 PM  

It doesn't matter if, with hand tools, a knowledgeable burglar can break your piano-weight safe in 10-15 minutes. UL B-rated safes must pass 30 minutes without cracking, that's all. Unrated safes in all likelihood won't make it that far.
The problem with trying to store liquid wealth at home goes beyond the problem of safes being easier to break into than most would expect. If there is enough wealth, and the safe is hard enough to open, then the thieves will look for a way to convince you to open it yourself. I don't see any easy answers here.

I have noticed however that with us being in election season most calibers of ammo are now available at good prices. The local walmart has 200 round WWB value packs of .45 for $73, and 100 round WWB value packs of 9mm for $25. I can't find hard figures but this is around where I recall prices were pre Obama. I wouldn't hoard ammo as an "investment", but it seems like a good time to stock up a bit for future consumption.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 3:34 PM  

@Athor Pel

Very good. Thank you.

Just like a gun thread . . . knew I would get some good advice. You goyim are all right. :)

Blogger Curtis July 21, 2015 3:35 PM  

Find a corner in your house with a moderately heavy piece of furniture placed there. Lift the carpet up carefully. Bust the concrete. Dig six inches larger than your safe. Fill that extra six inches with concrete. Border the top one half inch by one inch. Place in safe. Lay half inch metal sheet on top. Re-flap carpet. Re-place piece of furniture.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 3:39 PM  

I understand in a certain war torn country when the inhabitants were fleeing they left poisoned liquor bottles in the house, or with their other valuables, say in a safe if they had one.

Marauders have a real hard time passing up free liquor.

Strange factoid from history.

Blogger James Dixon July 21, 2015 3:44 PM  

> Take a look at the Apmex website

I'll third the recommendation for Apmex. We've dealt with them before and been happy customers.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis July 21, 2015 3:45 PM  

The next question is which currency is the safest and easiest to barter.

Whatever commodity or item that people will want. I imagine that in some places things like water and/or canned food will be vastly more valuable than even gold or silver. I imagine things like antihistamines, pain medication, blood pressure medication, anti-viral or bacterial medication etc will also be FAR more valuable than gold or silver and even more readily acceptable.

I believe Ferfal, gentleman who blogged about surviving the Argentina economic collapse, also recommended that you DO NOT rely on mint bullion alone, be it either silver or gold. There isn't anything wrong with holding the metals, but he says that paying for items with a watch, a ring or something else makes you look like nothing more than a person who is desperate i.e everyone else. Paying for items with a mint bullion coins marks you as someone who is prepared and might have extra valuables that can be stolen.

Anonymous Dan July 21, 2015 3:50 PM  

Good advice is to pay off debts and own everything free and clear. That is because the odds of a slow, agonizing financial torture (especially in the US) is much greater than the odds of a sudden stop.

Getting a personal cost structure that is well within below income seems prudent.

Blogger J Van Stry July 21, 2015 3:50 PM  

They should do, what they do here: Take out too much money, you go to jail!
Yup, only in America, is it against the law to take YOUR money out of the bank!

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 3:56 PM  

If SHTF you need to be prepared to go to ground at any time. The most violent episodes usually occur in the first few months then taper off.

It is a free for all at first, especially if you have been demonized and the military buys into it. If it is the vibrants coming to rob you, then you are in trouble from the get go regardless.

By the way, you won't be holding down the fort. They will kill you in no time flat.

Head to the mountains and ride it out.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 3:57 PM  

Get in shape, get off the meds, go paleo...

Develop the plan and train. It is coming.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 21, 2015 3:59 PM  

With how the response was worded around zerohedge and other outlets, not here, it reads like the system is coming for Greece mattress euros but no one really has any cash left so banks are screwed themselves.

The banks are UNTRUSTWORTHY.

Stateside is AWFUL, I am offered credit card after card for some kind of good credit score, did the banksters ever worry about their free money or credit score?

Meanwhile I wont charge a damn thing on a credit card.

I have $3 left to my name and its fine by me, I dont care.

There was some $110 of fraud done on my debit card utterly unhappy about it, I reluctantly called to report, my 110 or 120 whatever was frauded (like I care enough to check my balance) was returned. That was nice, it bought gas, toiletries and some nil food.

I hate OH, PA and that is enough for now. I just cannot stand going into jefferson county for damn thing. hate it.

Blogger Salt July 21, 2015 3:59 PM  

Check these out. Various sizes and styles.

I have a 12ga adjustable mortar. It can send a golf ball near 1/2 mile. Golf ball delivers calculated >1000 Ft-Lbs at 10'. Wouldn't be wise to come down the companionway uninvited.

Blogger tweell July 21, 2015 4:02 PM  

PM's are handy for stashing high value in a small footprint, not so much as an investment. As a hedge against trouble, I'd recommend having all the food and tools you need first, then you can start collecting PM's. Remember, FDR stole our gold, so PM's are liable to government theft. I personally prefer redneck precious metals - steel, brass and lead.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 4:03 PM  

Bankers are blood sucking crooks.

If you trust one you are a fool.

Blogger VD July 21, 2015 4:08 PM  

Yup, only in America, is it against the law to take YOUR money out of the bank!

It's not your money. It never has been. Once you grant the bank an unsecured loan, it is legally their money.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 4:09 PM  

Since you will be buying coins for the metal value you want to avoid paying for a numismatic premium if you can help it. Simply, the numismatic value of any coins you buy means exactly zero. Therefore you want the crappiest looking coins you can lay your hands on because you're buying money and not a collector's item. In America that means something called junk silver.
I would add a caveat to that. Junk silver is good, but since it's well-worn, the weight is only approximate. Numismatic value disappears in a crisis, but some bullion coins can help with transactions. You pay a higher premium for American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leafs, but they are more readily accepted.

The best defense for a safe is to have a walmart special gunsafe in the living room, with a couple of junker rifles and $100 in silver. Then the real safe in the back room, or basement, hidden with the real guns and money.

BTW, a 4" x 4' PVC sewer pipe could hold 1500 rounds and a decent rifle. If filled with used motor oil and it would keep the metals in good shape. You could bury it deep with an auger-type post hole digger in about 10 minutes.
Just as a hypothetical.

Anonymous BGS July 21, 2015 4:10 PM  

It can send a golf ball near 1/2 mile. Golf ball delivers calculated >1000 Ft-Lbs at 10'.

The average distance for a male with a driver club is 240yards around 1/7 of a mile for an average 15+ handicapper,
http://www.golflink.com/tips_5459_average-distance-each-golf-club.html

Anonymous Clint #47/#73 July 21, 2015 4:14 PM  

how silver is not $30 an ounce I have no idea.
Well, I was buying a boatload of the stuff, but then, alas, it was lost in a canoe accident with all the gold and firearms I own. I am bereft of all such things now....

Seriously, this sub $15 price for silver is a great time to be buying.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 4:14 PM  

When using PVC, purge the atmosphere with dry nitrogen (inert) and glue/cap immediately.

N2 is heavier than air. Keep the pipe upright while you cap it.

Your items will be good for 1,000 years.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 21, 2015 4:15 PM  

Not only is it not our money it is purely their funds. Wonderfully, evil, complete with absurd maintenance fees, free checking that is not free but utterly pointless.

Banks are above the law.

Anonymous BoysMom July 21, 2015 4:18 PM  

Since my husband's current employer requires direct deposit, one thing we've done (mostly me--he's almost never off when the credit union's open) is talk Dave Ramsey at all the tellers. If we should happen to trip the might be evading reporting line, wherever it is, we're known to everyone to be harmless eccentrics already, or crazy cultists, or whatever they've decided Ramsey-fans are.

Anonymous Kiwi the Geek July 21, 2015 4:21 PM  

"Since you will be buying coins for the metal value you want to avoid paying for a numismatic premium if you can help it. "

However, some numismatics dealers will sell junk silver cheap when they get it, because it's not their priority. With the rising price of silver / falling value of dollars, a significant amount of formerly collectible coins are now junk coins.

Also, it's worth posting on Craigslist. Sometimes you can find good deals there, with people who'd rather sell to an individual than a dealer.

Blogger Salt July 21, 2015 4:21 PM  

It's not your money. It never has been. Once you grant the bank an unsecured loan, it is legally their money.

What makes it an unsecured loan? The simple act of depositing with them? That hardly seems enough. Or is it that one has agreed to accept interest on the funds deposited. Only reason anyone would pay interest is because you have given tacit or express permission for them to use it. The quid pro quo. Of course, current projections are no guarantee of future performance. It could be lost.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 4:29 PM  

I missed a couple of payments on a real estate loan during the crash of 2007.

My father also had an account with the same bank. The bank went into my father's account and took the money because my WW2 vet father wanted me on his account in case he ever became incapacitated and needed me to cover his expenses. It was a small town and the Bank President had known my dad for 30 years.

As the president of the bank told me "it might be immoral but it is legal".

Thank you Wells Fargo.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 4:34 PM  

Bankers will kick a 90 year old great grandma to the curb without a conscience.

Do you think they give a rip about you.

A man I know who owned a construction company also had a big ranch. He used his ranch as collateral for his line.

The bank called the man's loan even though he was successful, had a strong backlog of work, and had not technically defaulted. The President of the Bank has owned my friends ranch for the last 25 years.

Even after that the bank harassed him for some items. The calling of his line destroyed his business and he lost his company. He went into the bank presidents office and said to him "see that big window here in your office, see that field across the street... you have left me with nothing... have a good day."

He never heard from the bank again.

Blogger Floyd Looney July 21, 2015 4:52 PM  

It would be hard-pressed for anyone to identify a nation not heavily indebted these days, we are literally robbing the grand-kids and devaluing the currency at the same time.

Blogger Floyd Looney July 21, 2015 4:55 PM  

Do they think can spend their way to Utopia... which we all know is impossible

Blogger dc.sunsets July 21, 2015 5:05 PM  

During the 1930's people who lost their homes or farms did so most often due to falling behind on their taxes, not the mortgage. Also, most of the ocean of debt in existence is denominated in US dollars.

This seems to argue in favor of having dollars (or reliable claims on dollars, which are challenging to acquire...reliably) on hand.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 21, 2015 5:11 PM  

It would be hard-pressed for anyone to identify a nation not heavily indebted these days, we are literally robbing the grand-kids and devaluing the currency at the same time.

Each debt is also an asset, which allows people to have the illusion of wealth while eating it, too. No grandchildren are being robbed, except in the sense that occult overconsumption now guarantees a poorer future for them.

All consumption is in Real Time. Only that which exists can be consumed. Credit-debasement of currency is, in all likelihood, temporary...even if the illusion lasts decades.

Blogger Student in Blue July 21, 2015 5:13 PM  

@Tiny Tim
My father also had an account with the same bank. The bank went into my father's account and took the money because my WW2 vet father wanted me on his account in case he ever became incapacitated and needed me to cover his expenses. It was a small town and the Bank President had known my dad for 30 years.

Thing is, whenever you get your name put on an account, it is essentially, and I think legally, *your money*.

What your dad did was essentially deposit money into your account and depended on you using it correctly if he became incapacitated.

I am not a lawyer, but your dad probably should've made a living will instead.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 5:13 PM  

"During the 1930's people who lost their homes or farms did so most often due to falling behind on their taxes, not the mortgage."

I also believe that during this time a significantly higher down payment was required to buy a home and it was expected to be paid off in a few years, lump sum. Around the 1950s I think is when the 20% down, 30-year mortgage becomes "conventional."

I wonder how much better things might be if at least 50% down, 10 year mortgage was "conventional."

But, it's the college loans that are crazy. Who gives an 18-year old kid with zero credit history a $40,000.00 loan for crying out loud?

College loan = the new mortgage (except worse).

Blogger SirHamster (#201) July 21, 2015 5:22 PM  

College loan = the new mortgage (except worse).

Pffth, who would value a plot of land over a piece of paper and a box full of college textbooks?

Don't forget the College Experience.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 5:29 PM  

In ythe 1920s there was a real estate bubble much like the one in the 1990s-2000s. Same cause, real estate prices will "always go up", easy money, low or no down, liars loans, the works. exactly the same thing happened with the stock market crash. Thousands of accounts get margin called, thousands of people have to sell everything, including real estate, to make the margin call. prices go down and the panic starts setting in. etc

There were entire towns in Chicago area platted, subdivided and mostly sold that never had a hole dug or a nail driven. They were later aggregated and sold off as farmland.
Hell, we've got that here in mys small rural town right now. Grand Prairie, 1500 lot development, had some of the roads cut, 3 demo houses built, and utilities put in. Sign said "Homes from the low 300s", which is insane, given how far we are from any jobs. Anyway, whole thing was bought at auction, including 3 houses for $115k. Now the buyer is now going into bankruptcy and the city just attached the property for unpaid debts re: utility hookups and demolition materials dumped as a public nuisance.

Anyway, it was the reason so many lost their homes in the early '30s. They bought into a bubble.

Blogger Rabbi B July 21, 2015 5:31 PM  

"Don't forget the College Experience. "

Priceless.

Blogger Danby July 21, 2015 5:33 PM  

But, it's the college loans that are crazy. Who gives an 18-year old kid with zero credit history a $40,000.00 loan for crying out loud?

Since student loans cannot be discharged via bankruptcy, the creditors are people planning on essentially enslaving the debtors through accrued interest and onerous "fees" for the rest of their natural lives.

That's who.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 5:42 PM  

The private banks who issue federally backed student loans push the borrower to default.

When you default, the private bank hits you with a ~30% one time default charge, has the accrued interest rolled up into the principal, then says... hey Federal Government, this deadbeat defaulted on their loan, I want to be made whole.

The Feds make the bank whole by paying off the loan and the bank books a really, really nice profit.

Then the Feds get to harass the stupid kid for the rest of his life.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 5:42 PM  

Like Smedley Butler said "student loans are a racket..."

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 5:45 PM  

Student: "I'z wants to go to college..." . I'z wants to get an edumacation".

Bank: "Sure vibrant student. Here is $50K... enjoy".

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 5:46 PM  

Bank: "We parlayed that $50K into $90K with interest deferments and the default fee of 30% in just three years.. winning! Ok Federal Government, make us whole...".

Blogger Tiny Tim July 21, 2015 5:52 PM  

I helped a girlfriend out one time who got a law degree via student loans. She got in way over her head and I called the DOE on her behalf (they had encouraged her to defer her interest payments from the loans inception with the interest being capitalized - more principal to hit with the default fee).

The rude vibrant lady on the other end said "you never should have borrowed $60K if you couldn't pay it back. I said " you shouldn't loan $60K to an unemployed kid with zero collateral and no job." She hung up on me. She was a vibrant and mad about white privilege I guess.

Blogger njartist July 21, 2015 5:56 PM  

MTV has been taken over by the anti-white SJWs: "MTV Bullies Kids, Makes Them Cry to Raise Awareness for ‘White Privilege". The war on whites is gathering full momentum: this is Obama and those behind him.

Anonymous p-dawg July 21, 2015 6:53 PM  

@Salt: What makes it an unsecured loan? The terms and conditions you sign when you open your bank account. Read them sometime.

Blogger Bard July 21, 2015 7:01 PM  

Rabbi B,
If you will be leaving soon, I would buy one oz gold coins. Silver is way to dang heavy to lug around in any decent amounts. Only do about 1/4-1/3 net worth. Like one of the other commenters said, a safe in the ground yields no return. It is insurance. Use the rest of your money to make you money.

Blogger VD July 21, 2015 7:13 PM  

Thing is, whenever you get your name put on an account, it is essentially, and I think legally, *your money*.

You could not be more wrong. It has been established since the 1600s that the money legally belongs to the bank. All you hold is an unsecured loan that the bank can default on at any time.

Blogger VD July 21, 2015 7:15 PM  

What makes it an unsecured loan? The simple act of depositing with them? That hardly seems enough.

Yes. Why would you think what something "seems" like to you is relevant in the slightest? This isn't up for debate. It has been settled case law for literally hundreds of years. Don't opine and theorize, just look it up.

Blogger Salt July 21, 2015 7:18 PM  

@Salt: What makes it an unsecured loan? The terms and conditions you sign when you open your bank account.

That's funny, p-dawg. Stating the obvious. Of course it's the terms and conditions.

Read them sometime.

Which them? Is there only one kind?

Anonymous p-dawg July 21, 2015 7:30 PM  

@Salt: If you knew the answer already, why'd you ask the question? Also, if it was so obvious, why did I have to point it out to you? And which ones? Well, the ones for the bank account you're interested in, of course. Did you think that there was some kind of single document somewhere that lays out the terms and conditions for all bank accounts?

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 21, 2015 8:18 PM  

Rabbi. It is difficult to give advice of this type without knowing details.
From my side, I would look at what debt I have, and depending on a yes answer, amount and current income, paying off the debt mighg be better.
Then, a piece of land in the country, far enough but not too far, where you could build a cottage with needed features ;) but off the grid might be another option. Large propane tanks, a septic tank or composting/incinerator toilet, a pond, a water well, propene generstor, etc. are design features that can be added to you weekend gettaway. Grandkids will have a place where they can be kids snd a cool grandpa and grandma to spoil them.

Anonymous Jim Milo July 21, 2015 8:31 PM  

How long until some new Baader-Meinhof-type organization starts hunting bankers and government crooks down?

Shhhh... the feds may hear!

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

A few months ago, I had a truly and quite literally "revolutionary" idea, and I jokingly called it "Assassination Politics": I speculated on the question of whether an organization could be set up to legally announce that it would be awarding a cash prize to somebody who correctly "predicted" the death of one of a list of violators of rights, usually either government employees, officeholders, or appointees. It could ask for anonymous contributions from the public, and individuals would be able send those contributions using digital cash.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bell

In April 1995, Bell authored the first part of a 10-part essay called "Assassination Politics", which described an elaborate assassination market in which anonymous benefactors could securely order the killings of government officials or others who are violating citizens' rights. Following an investigation by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), Bell was arrested and subsequently jailed for 11 months on felony charges of harassment and using false Social Security numbers.

Blogger Groot July 21, 2015 8:50 PM  

Steven Levy has a section in Crypto (2001) about this encrypted prediction market idea. Great book. This idea, though, scared some of the crypto guys.

Blogger J Van Stry July 21, 2015 8:55 PM  

Vox IS right here. I think most people just have trouble wrapping their heads around it.

My (recently passed) Father lived through the great depression. He saw the banks back then take everyone's money away.
As a child I was surprised to learn that my father did not keep any of his money in the bank, and paid all of his bills in cash. He didn't write checks to anyone, he went to their office and paid them. I don't think he had a checking account until the late seventies and he taught us all growing up, to never trust the banks, because they can take your money at will.
In the last few decades, because of his age, he used a bank, but he never trusted them, and kept ALL of his records until the day he died (I cleaned them out last month) and checked them carefully.

Looking around the other day, I noticed that I have the same habit, I don't keep much money in banks, I tend to buy things that I can trade or resell. I also don't have much in the way of debt, other than a mortgage and a car loan.

A friend of mine works for a bank, it was a small bank, but under pressure from the feds, who seem suddenly to not like small local banks anymore, it has now been sold (twice) to larger and larger banks.
So yeah, Vox is right, and if the banks ever were deserving of your trust, the government isn't, and they (the government) sure has its hands deep inside them now. And while you may not be able to insure cash money in your house against theft, you sure can insure that silver coin collection, or that rifle collection, or those tools, get the picture?

Blogger James Dixon July 21, 2015 9:42 PM  

> Pffth, who would value a plot of land over a piece of paper and a box full of college textbooks?

Oh, mine's been worth far more to me than an average plot of land. But that was over 30 years ago. I have no reason to think that's still the case.

Anonymous Tar Heel (VFM#0245) July 21, 2015 10:02 PM  

Rabbi B, if you're still looking for hard currency information, I have a little tidbit to add. I'd stick with coins over bars, especially gold bars. If you're buying or bartering for silver specie, keep a small rare earth magnet on hand, and run it over the coins. The problem with real money is there are fakes, and the magnet will stick to any false ones. Right now, the odds of you picking up a false one from a credible dealer are little, but whether you're buying in bulk or, Lord forbid, trading for a loaf of bread if Mad Max becomes non-fiction, you can spare yourself a headache.

That said, don't get any Chinese Pandas. The premiums are too much, and... Hey, guess who's been minting the bad coinage and passing off tungsten bars as gold bullion?

Apologies for the off-topic post, mods.

Anonymous BGS July 21, 2015 10:30 PM  

In the last few decades, because of his age, he used a bank, but he never trusted them, and kept ALL of his records until the day he died (I cleaned them out last month) and checked them carefully.

A tip for those with older relatives that might have a safety deposit box, don't have the obituary run before you have looked in it. Some unscrupulous banksters have used their keys to loot goodies before family can get to it. You can get a peek into it in many states early with the death certificate, in states that recognize holistic wills, so you would state that you would be looking for a holistic will & you can verify what is in there. That way you don't have to worry about them saying sorry it must be somewhere else.

Anonymous IsMise July 21, 2015 10:48 PM  

Where have you gone John Dillinger, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you - koo ku choo.

Blogger IM2L844 July 21, 2015 11:13 PM  

So where does one keep their money once you take it out of the bank?

Inside a frozen turkey in the bottom of the deep freeze, of course. Same as everybody else.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 21, 2015 11:16 PM  

njartist OT MTV received negative reviews regarding their very weirdo show regarding race.

Anyways, the pressure is similar to or an complete hypnotic state. Post America is mostly hypnotized due to tyranny. Yet the Greeks are not hypnotized by the banks fear mongering.

Banks can throw fits forevermore, by God's providence may we be swifter and smarter than their timing.

Anonymous Anonymous July 21, 2015 11:22 PM  

DC: UL rated safes are junk. Here are safe ratings explained:

http://www.deansafe.com/ratings101.html

The best method is to have a "honey pot" safe for thieves to crack, and the real one hidden.

- Nothing to See Here

Blogger bob k. mando July 22, 2015 12:05 AM  

100. Floyd Looney July 21, 2015 4:55 PM
Do they think can spend their way to Utopia... which we all know is impossible



no, that's just what they say when they claim that Keynsianism 'works'.

it's been known for thousands of years that high taxes, large government debts and devaluing the money is bad for a nation.

it IS, however, an excellent way for parasites to leech wealth out of a nation.

Blogger bob k. mando July 22, 2015 12:06 AM  

84. LP 999/Eliza July 21, 2015 3:59 PM
I hate OH



yes Linda, we know.

Anonymous Dan July 22, 2015 12:10 AM  

I'm not sure why this banking issue gives people so much trouble.

When you deposit money at a bank, it takes the majority of the money and loans it out or uses it for some other purpose. The bank keeps a small fraction of your money as reserves in their Federal Reserve account. In return, you get the bank's promise to pay you money on demand with interest (from their reserves with the Fed). Under the definition of some economists, this debt obligation is part of the "money supply". But it's not money. Money is cash, coins, and reserves held in Federal Reserve accounts. Bank depositors are creditors of the bank, and nothing more.

If you lent money to your friend, and he was obligated to pay you back whenever you asked, you would be in exactly the same position, Economists just wouldn't count the debt as part of the "money supply".

Anonymous bolo-toto July 22, 2015 12:16 AM  

Well, the collapse is upon us .. AAPL is crashing .. All bets are off now ..

The solution to the banks? Simple, new ownership. That is someone that can actually purchase them ..

Wanta Plan

[submitted in 2010]

But since The Wanta Plan has not been implemented, the entire original $27.5 trillion (now worth about $70+ trillion) is collectable; and since so much of this money has been stolen, Ambassador Leo Wanta will wind up owning a sizeable number of large financial institutions, if the funds are not disgorged as will be required. Alternatively, sizeable banks will go to the wall, and their supervisory central banks will be obliged to pay Wanta what these banks owe him, to authorise control to be passed to Leo Wanta, or else to nationalise the banks in question.

THE WANTA PLAN: A MACRO FINANCIAL AND ECONOMIC CHECK LIST

[submitted on June 18, 2015]

The 32.1 trillion he amassed in the process has finally been recovered and accounted for after it was hijacked by the a criminal non-Government organization known as the Federal Reserve and the Corporate State of Wisconsin. Controversial and true with hundreds of documents included to support this compelling true story.

Mastermind: Wanta! Black Swan White Hat on Amazon Now

And did anyone mention China?

I'm just waiting for Jim Willie's July letter. This one should be a doozy to date ..

Anonymous Jack Amok July 22, 2015 12:43 AM  

PM's are handy for stashing high value in a small footprint, not so much as an investment. As a hedge against trouble, I'd recommend having all the food and tools you need first, then you can start collecting PM's.

The Precious Metal priority list:

1 - Lead and Brass in various denominations
2 - Iron and Steel (in the form of tools you know how to use)
3 - Gold and Silver (as with #1, in various denominations)

This seems to argue in favor of having dollars (or reliable claims on dollars, which are challenging to acquire...reliably) on hand.

Be prepared. For what? Anything. There are a variety of possible forms the coming chaos may take. If Vox is right and deflation hits, cash will be king. If Nate is right and hyperinflation hits, metals will be. You should have both on hand. I've been setting aside a monthly investment - some goes into small bills and some into gold and some into silver. They all go into that frozen turkey in the deep freeze.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 22, 2015 12:53 AM  

But, it's the college loans that are crazy. Who gives an 18-year old kid with zero credit history a $40,000.00 loan for crying out loud?


Modern day slavers.

Blogger ray July 22, 2015 1:17 AM  

'Racism is neither a sin nor is it a societal evil. Race-based self-segregation is not only the observably preferred human norm for all races throughout the entirety of recorded human history, it is inevitable'


Not racist, just unpopular and anti-babylonian. Skitters the mob.

It's Scriptural, as the peoples deliberately were divided into nations. For their own protection. So demanding otherwise is rebellion against God. Good luck.

Anonymous Discard July 22, 2015 1:34 AM  

Regarding safety deposit boxes: They are not secure. The bank has a key.

Anonymous Discard July 22, 2015 1:39 AM  

If anybody, including the delivery men, sees you getting a gun safe delivered, they know you have a need for it.
And don't let the trash men see the box your new gun came in either.

Anonymous kjj July 22, 2015 1:45 AM  

@134 (and others, nothing personal)

Banking can turn your head inside out.

First, money is that which people use as money. No other definition is useful. You can choose to define money differently, but if you do, you can no longer learn anything about reality, only your imaginary land.

Aside: Why do you list Fed deposits as real money? Fed deposits are to banks what your checking account is to you. Neither is more or less real than the other. A crude understanding of how ACH works is very helpful for understanding this.

Second aside: Cash and coin are, from the bank's point of view, ephemeral. Mere bearer bonds that they sell and redeem at or very near to face value.

Second, no bank is waiting for your deposit, and when they get it, they don't lend part of it out. Banks are demand-limited, and have been for a long time now. When they find a borrower that won't get them in trouble with the regulators, they make the loan, and the money appears out of thin air. After that, they may need to seek deposits to come into compliance with reserve regulations, but those are readily available from other banks, including the Fed which was originally designed (mainly) as the lender of last resort for exactly this reason.

Third, the "debt obligation" is not part of the money supply, but it doesn't need to be because, and this is crucial, banks create money out of thin air. Banking regulations restrict when and how they are allowed to do this, so your loan is a crucial part of the process.

Blogger YIH July 22, 2015 2:48 AM  

Tar Heel:
Rabbi B, if you're still looking for hard currency information, I have a little tidbit to add. I'd stick with coins over bars
Agreed, coins can be measured for both size and weight quickly and easily. Bars can only be accurately weighed - which can lead to some nasty surprises.

Blogger Brad Andrews July 22, 2015 2:51 AM  

Get in shape, get off the meds, go paleo...

Paleo may be a bit hard in many areas if things fall apart. I recall it relying on a lot of fresh food, which would not be available.

LewRockwell.com had a link to an interesting article a few days ago about how hard it would be to hide your stash and garden if things really did go bad.

How would those of you who hate banks save up for a car? Buying one with cash in hand would likely put a big target on you, even if you saved that up legitimately over time.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 July 22, 2015 2:52 AM  

On a lighter note Kent Hovind has very recently been released from prison for the crime of structuring; that's withdrawing your own money from your own bank account in amounts less than ten thousand dollars.
Yes, you live in a bat shit crazy world.
Fortunately God is pissed. Thank God for Holy Wrath. Something He hasn't outsourced.

Anonymous map July 22, 2015 2:53 AM  

OT,

I do have a question about guns. I am looking to purchase my first handgun. The one idea that I hit upon was buying common guns in common calibers. Can anyone tell me if the Glock 19 is more common than the Smith&Wesson M&P series or the Ruger SR9?

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 22, 2015 3:33 AM  

Map, the Glock 19 is a very common weapon more than the S&W or Ruger,

However you'd be well served by any of those weapons and you'll probably run out of ammo before any of them break or wear out.

Which one you might want may also depend on your budget, Glocks are often about a hundred US more.

What matters when you have three solid choices is which one handles best for you.

My recommendation is that you go to a range that rents guns and try one or more handguns of the type you like. When you find one that fits your hand well, is comfortable to shoot and has a general reputation for reliability buy that one.

Yes this will cost you an extra I dunno $100 or so but its cheap compared to swapping guns off and ending up with a gun you really like the 1st time instead of churn and burn will enable you to focus your resources on getting good instead of getting guns.

Also don't get hung up on ammo minutia, Its fun but at the real world level of granularity, one good hollow point is as good as another, My advice is to select the most reliable round. If you can use a less expensive round, all the better, You'll practice more.

I have no advice on carry though. Sorry.

Blogger Sam July 22, 2015 3:58 AM  

Remember, the real problem is Red State Goyim. Paul Krugman even said so last year (6:00 min.)

"...a lot of the craziness comes from White rural Americans who feel they're losing their country - they're losing the ownership of the country - and they're right, we are becoming more diverse, more multicultural, and they are, in the end, they are not the future; in the end, the power they still have, will go away. But it's a very difficult time until then..."

http://www.nrk.no/verden/--amerikansk-politikk-er-galskap-1.11457779

Anonymous TroperA July 22, 2015 4:19 AM  

I think Paul Krugman needs to live in a vibrant multicultural neighborhood for a little while before he decides to dismantle the Old White Male Dam holding back the Third World Tide.

His wooden, Sigmund-Freud head would make a tempting target for roving bands of Polar Bear Gamers...

OpenID thenoisyrogue July 22, 2015 6:01 AM  

"... I also don't have much in the way of debt, other than a mortgage and a car loan ..."

Sounds like a lot of debt to me.

Blogger Big Sexy July 22, 2015 8:07 AM  

@144. map July 22, 2015 2:53 AM

A.B. Prosper's comment is spot on. Glock's are the most common of the 3 though you need to be mindful which generation you're considering. M&P's are popular and gaining market share but aren't at the same level yet. The SR9 numbers likely aren't in the same ballpark considering it's not aimed at LEO/military.

As an addendum to his advice, I'd suggest trying to find a competent shooter to hit the range with you when trying things out.

Anonymous kjj July 22, 2015 8:30 AM  

@145

Once you get your pistol, don't do anything to it.

You listed three quality guns, any of which should fire and load reliably as long as you resist the temptation to start trying to "improve" it. Buy a couple of factory magazines for it. Also get a LULA for it, that will greatly reduce the temptation to buy cheap magazines.

Get a quality hollow point and buy a case. I'm partial to Federal HST or Hi-Shok, but as #146 says, don't obsess over it, the difference between brands isn't huge. Practice with what you intend to carry in it. That gets insanely expensive though, so also get some cheap ammo in the same weight and nearly the same velocity, then shoot both during practice sessions.

Blogger dlw July 22, 2015 8:36 AM  

A friend got audited by the IRS five years in a row. Each time, his first notice was when checks started bouncing after the IRS froze his bank account. Nothing important; mortgage payment, car insurance, credit card bills... each time it cost him hundreds of dollars in bounced-check and late-payment fees, and it hammered his credit score badly.

The IRS claimed it was a "random audit" each time. (there was nothing to find; not only were his finances very simple, he had a part-time job every spring as a tax preparer...) It finally took the intervention of both his Congressman and his Senator to stop it.

What I took away from this was... if the money isn't in your direct control, it's not *your* money. Far too many people can cut you off from the money you put in the bank.

I still have a bank account so I can write checks and do an occasional EFT. The balance is usually $100. When I need to send money somewhere I put enough in to cover the transaction.

Blogger dlw July 22, 2015 8:47 AM  

@38: investing in gold and silver
---
The simplest way is to buy ingots with assay certificates. You'll be paying top dollar for the convenience, though.

Otherwise, look up the current selling prices for scrap, then go by your local pawnshop and make them an offer for the metal by the ounce. If you can meet the price of their wholesale buyers they'll sell to you instead.

However you want it, you want cold metal you can hold in your hand. If you buy into any sort of "certificates" that claim there really truly is some metal somewhere, hopefully on the same landmass you live on... you might as well just stay with paper money.

Blogger J Van Stry July 22, 2015 12:23 PM  

It is very easy to assay any metal, I'd have to look up the numbers, but simply put, first you weight it, then you put it a full cup of water with an overflow spout. Then you weight the water. Mass and Volume are fixed for each metal.
Now with larger bars, like the chinese were making, they had to mix metals in order to get the weight to volume measurement correct. But with smaller items, like coins and small bars, I don't think anyone would bother going to that much trouble. But there are quick ways to check for some of that as well (like a rare earth magnet).

Remember also, the chinese are crooks and they will always cheat you. That's what my Chinese friend who fled communism to come here told me, never trust them. And when I see all the scams coming out of China, I can't help but feel he was correct.

Blogger J Van Stry July 22, 2015 12:34 PM  

FYI:
Suppose you have a piece of metal that weighs exactly 1kg, and it displaces 3.25 fl. oz of water (or 95.3 cc). You simply divide the weight by the volume, and the resulting density is 10.49 grams per square centimeter. Looking on the periodic table of the elements, we see that only one element has a density of 10.49 g/cc. The block must be made of pure silver. On the other hand, suppose that object displaced 107cc of water, making the density only 9.35 g/cc. You will know immediately that it's not a bar of pure silver (in this case, 25% Ag, 75% Cu).

This test could also reveal the difference between tungsten (19.25 g/cc) and gold (19.30 g/cc) if precise instruments were used. A 3110g (100 ounces troy) tungsten bar would displace 0.4ml more water than a gold bar of the same weight. The density measurement would be very difficult with coin-sized pieces of gold, but that is okay, because a coin with a tungsten core would be immediately given away by the fact that it would not ring when flicked into the air.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 12:50 PM  

Large is defined as equal to or in excess of $5,000. Do take this with a few grams of NaCl, as my source of info is a friend who works for the IRS, and it is a couple of years old (I cant point to a reference amount in law or openly available policy)

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 12:53 PM  

Yep. Which is the real currency. Gold and silver are such great ideas, until one has to physically carry them.....

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 12:57 PM  

Malik does indeed take EBT cards in various and sundry forms.

It would be a life saving idea for those of us intending to survive until an old age to begin trade on the local arm of your black markets so that you begin building a reserve of trust and cred. You will learn more about capitilism and the efficiency of markets this way then in any text book.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:01 PM  

As an aside, if one is to hoard gold and silver, one should melt it down, and invest some small time and effort to learn jewelry smithing. Not only does this skill provide one the ability to hand load as necessary, but it provides strong plausible denyability as to why someone would have any prescious metal in any quantity.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:06 PM  

Opiate based pain medications are currency right now in more oppressed areas of California. Or at least, so i am told by people on the street.

And its not just for what you think. This is an exercise for the reader to complete.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:09 PM  

Make no mistake, Malik also takes bitcoin. If one wants to learn how to survive, one should seek out those who do for instruction.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:14 PM  

Consider that every drug dealer has an electronic scale that can measure weights at a minimum of .1 grams of accuracy, and that testing for metal purity isnt terribly difficult to do, holding any metal in an establishment provided form is quite pointless.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:16 PM  

A firesafe that will hold gold and silver. How wonderful physics must be at your bugout place.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:18 PM  

Set your house on fire, wait for the gold to pool under the safe. Mischef managed.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:22 PM  

If you cant accomplish this, a reasonable alternstive would be to fill and cap the pipe while it is upright and submerged in oil.

Blogger RobertT July 22, 2015 1:24 PM  

We are witnessing the slow death of the global financial system.

Bitcoin?.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:26 PM  

Bankers should call the loans soon then. Your daughters wont have much of value to "repay" the bankers once they hit their 30's.....

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:34 PM  

I live as the white top of chicken shit - the sole cracker in a very vibrant soup bowl.

Might i suggest that, when moving in, you very clearly want your neighbors to see you carrying in rifle and gun cases. Not all of them, but just a couple. And wear and cultuvate a look that says militia or cop. Eve feared snakes. Vibrants fear The Man.

It will save your life.

Blogger Wayne Earl July 22, 2015 1:40 PM  

Bitcoin is pure fantasy. It presupposes that the internet and electricity will be redily available long term.

Anonymous map July 22, 2015 2:45 PM  

Thanks for the gun advice.

My thinking is this. First, select for common caliber. The 9mm NATO round is probably the most common caliber in existence. Second, select for magazine. The Glock magazine is very common and other gun makers make use of it in their weapons. Finally, there is the gun. The Glock is probably the most common polymer 9mm out there. So Glock seems the way to go. Plus, there are lots of accessories for it.

Is there a difference between the Gen 3 and Gen 4 models? Are magazines interchangeable? What about accessories and reliability.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 22, 2015 3:08 PM  

Map, I don't know much about Glocks other than its a rock solid choice.

Go try one first though, Some people don't find it comfortable to shoot and since you have the luxury of choosing your own weapon, you should try before you buy.

As for Gen 3 vs. Gen 4 I suspect you'll have to check around for info. I'd start with The High Road. Its a friendly, generally helpful forum that may have the information you need

http://www.thehighroad.org/

Also re: accessories. They are fun and cool but they distract you from you main mission which is to get good.

You may want a holster if you can carry, a safe place to store the weapon, factory magazines, cleaning kit and ammo.

Everything else is optional. Stuff like light mounts ,aftermarket sights , lasers and the other doodads can come after you are proficient . I can't stress that enough .get good

Good training is a better investment than aftermarket anything anyway and I wouldn't bother buying gizmos until you get proficient with the weapon.

Good luck!

Anonymous map July 22, 2015 3:44 PM  

A.B. Prosper,

Thank you. :)

Anonymous Kiwi the Geek July 22, 2015 6:19 PM  

How would those of you who hate banks save up for a car? Buying one with cash in hand would likely put a big target on you, even if you saved that up legitimately over time.

Buy from an individual. They will prefer, and maybe insist that you pay with cash.

Blogger Groot July 22, 2015 11:28 PM  

A.B. Prosper
"A.B. Prosper,
Thank you. :)"
Look at you go! That editing is serving you well. Dang!

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