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Saturday, July 25, 2015

Mailvox: "we're waiting for ISIS"

Shimshon asks about the Middle East:
i think i mentioned before. i heard word from someone who knows. the region north and west of amman, and all along the syrian border is thick with refugees. have you seen some of the pics? there's around 600k i think. around 10% of the native population. my understanding is that king hussein is pretty terrified of the powderkeg in his midst.
Powderkeg barely begins to describe it. The refugee situation is even worse than that. I had lunch with a Lebanese Christian last week, who was visiting while on vacation. Apparently there are over a million refugees there now. I asked what the Maronites were doing and he said "we are waiting for ISIS."

That sounded rather fatalistic, so I asked him if they would fight or if they would simply submit like the Assyrians and the Yazidi did. He smiled and said "We have always had to fight to stay alive. The difference is, this time many of those we used to fight against will be fighting with us." It's perhaps worth remembering that they were winning the Lebanese civil war when Syria entered and forced a settlement.

What the US and Israel should do is materially support Assad and the Alawites, the Jordanians, and the Lebanese Christians without getting involved in the fighting, and at the same time, clean house at home. Instead, they appear to be playing the same stupid game they did in Afghanistan, where they create a weaponized puppet who rapidly grows beyond their control. Too many parties appear to be too caught up in their historical concerns, such as the Turks with the Kurds, or their grand strategic vision, such as the Israelis with Iran, to focus on the actual danger at hand.

Sure, the Islamic State is no danger to Israel or the USA now, so they think they can use it to settle old scores. But just as the anti-Soviet mujahideen eventually transformed into the Taliban, Daesh is in the process of developing into a more serious and formidable force.

The Iran agreement, and the fact that Turkey, Israel, and the USA are all cooperating to hit Daesh in Syria may indicate that they're finally beginning to rethink their previous perspectives. The one thing that is certain is that Syria is far less dangerous with Assad in control than Daesh.

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55 Comments:

Anonymous A. Nonymous July 25, 2015 7:48 PM  

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother #225 July 25, 2015 7:51 PM  

WHAT DOES JOHN HAGEE SAY?

Blogger David-093 July 25, 2015 7:53 PM  

@Stg

Vote for Israel!

I mean, vote for Dubya!

Dammit...let's see...

The end is here? Yeah, that's it!

Anonymous nil July 25, 2015 7:56 PM  

https://mkaradjis.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/%e2%80%8bthe-israel-backs-jabhat-al_nusra-fairy-tale-and-its-deadly-consequences/

This is a good debunking of the theory that Israel wants Assad to fall. Well worth a read.

Blogger Eric July 25, 2015 8:02 PM  

The Iran agreement, and the fact that Turkey, Israel, and the USA are all cooperating to hit Daesh in Syria may indicate that they're finally beginning to rethink their previous perspectives. The one thing that is certain is that Syria is far less dangerous with Assad in control than Daesh.

And yet ISIS is being heavily support by somebody. There's no way they could be operating the way they do without large amounts of economic and military aid from an external state.

Anonymous Pax Romana July 25, 2015 8:03 PM  

I see Ezekiel's Gog/Magog war coming ever closer. Just have to wonder who will fire the next Shot Heard Round the World and get the war started...

Anonymous Jack Ward July 25, 2015 8:05 PM  

A pit of snakes for sure. With Obama and his traitorous minions in control there seems little hope that the USA will to do anything except help out the jihadis. Lord help us all.
Maybe a bit of military coup locally? The dangers of such a happening are legion; but, then, so is the price of doing nothing.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 25, 2015 8:06 PM  

My guess is that the ISIS open source warfare effort is selling a few guns here in the occupied states of America. The script reader in chief all this time befuddled his aura is not enough to inflict gun control upon the serfs

Blogger Corvinus July 25, 2015 8:18 PM  

@Eric

ISIS directly borders Saudi Arabia... there's one possible source.

Anonymous Tallen July 25, 2015 8:37 PM  

There've been over a million Syrian refugees in Lebanon since Christmas or earlier. To put that in perspective, that's a quarter of Lebanon's population.

Anonymous Discard July 25, 2015 8:49 PM  

Is there a link to Shimshon's article? I googled his blog but it wasn't there.

Anonymous cheddarman July 25, 2015 8:49 PM  

Follow the money. The U.S., Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf States still want to see Assad go, as he is an ally of Putin. They also want a natural gas pipeline to Europe going through Syria. It will strengthen the petrodollar. Without the petrodollar, the American Empire is dead.

Blogger bw July 25, 2015 9:06 PM  

Instead, they appear to be playing the same stupid game

Unless their motives are other than what a Westerner would ever possibly believe.

Anonymous zen0 July 25, 2015 9:10 PM  

@5 Eric

And yet ISIS is being heavily support by somebody. There's no way they could be operating the way they do without large amounts of economic and military aid from an external state.

Turkey was the incubation area for ISIS.

I am still going with the idea that ISIS is a stalking horse for Turkey. When ISIS has gained the appropriate territory, Turkey will step in and consolidate their territorial gains by wiping them out. Basically, they will shoot their horse to get it out of the way so they can fire freely.

Turkey is not going to go up against Israel until they have established the Caliphate, but Egypt and the Saudis should be concerned, although Iran might take care of the Saudis for them.

It sucks to be the Saudis right now.

Anonymous BGS July 25, 2015 9:15 PM  

The US is only taking in moslem refugees from the area. Saddam, Kaddafi and Assad where the closest things to secular fair powers the middle east had.

Blogger MendoScot July 25, 2015 9:20 PM  

60 years ago the US was offered the opportunity to freeze the Chinese out of Tibet.

The SD socialists wouldn't have it. And in that day and age, they didn't dare show their faces.

Now that they own the Goverment, they will offer platitudes, while they place pawns to be sacrificed in a game that was lost when our Civilization began.

*spit*

Anonymous zen0 July 25, 2015 9:21 PM  

@16 BGS

The whole strategy of the British was to establish rulers from minority groups so that majority groups could not seize power and persecute everybody else.

Obama and Bush seem to have come to the conclusion that was not a good idea.
You ever notice how new managers always seem to think they should make changes just for the sake of change, so that it does not look like they are passive?

Stupid is as stupid does.

Anonymous Big Bill July 25, 2015 9:21 PM  

The Middle East is and always will be chaotic until they run out of oil. It would be nice if the next shipload of advanced weapons would so something new this time, but I just see no evidence whatsoever that they will either bring peace, stability or 'democracy'. Whoever we give weapons to, whoever we train, whatever schools, and clinics, and McDonalds, and Burger Kings we build make absolutely no difference. Semites are corrupt and depraved peoples for a host of reasons, only one of which is religion. Increasing their killing power just increases the slaughter.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 25, 2015 9:30 PM  

zen0 @19 : "You ever notice how new managers always seem to think they should make changes just for the sake of change, so that it does not look like they are passive?"

Is this the "New Coke" theory of foreign policy?

Anonymous cheddarman July 25, 2015 9:31 PM  

Interesting article over at Zero Hedge on how Russia, China, India are building trade and transportation networks with each other that will include Europe Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan as well as much of the rest of Asia. Meanwhile, we (America) are sowing political, economic and moral chaos throughout the world. I think the rest of the world would like to be done with the U.S.

Anonymous zen0 July 25, 2015 9:52 PM  

@21 Whitey McWhite

>Is this the "New Coke" theory of foreign policy?

Coke at least kind of admitted they may have made a mistake. Presidents and Premiers, like other middle managers, never do.

Anonymous BGS July 25, 2015 10:03 PM  

Moslems want to set up no go zones in the US.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/02/video-filmmaker-walks-around-minneapolis-neighborhood-asking-muslims-key-questions-about-shariah-law-and-insulting-muhammad/

"That's not a baseball bat with strips of bacon nailed to it, it's just a dildo"
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2015/07/25/well-this-should-be-entertaining-and-informative/

"A Swedish Nationalist Group is planning on routing a gay pride parade through a Mohammedan neighborhood.
Gay pride parades in Europe generally don’t go anywhere near Muslim areas, for obvious reasons. In Nørrebro, Copenhagen (where only 30% of the population are Muslim, as opposed to the more than 75% in the Swedish areas), gay pride parades learned the hard way not to tread within Islamic strongholds. Formerly, there was a large gay pride parade that went through Nørrebrogade (the main high street of the area). Gays would take stones to the head every year from Muslims, so they re-routed."


Remember that pic of Mantraman and I https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/0/0d/Nazis_and_gays_hate_feminists.png

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 25, 2015 10:24 PM  

@6

Revelstion 24 ... They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection..... 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his 7 prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the 8 earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

So, Christ has been reigning for almost 1000 years already? And missed welcoming the first resurrected too.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales July 25, 2015 10:58 PM  

@cheddarman

Fuck off, dude. Everyone of those countries you mentioned wished they were as top dog as to be able to cause and stop the kind of chaos we could, especially the Chinese.

However, as their recent economic bubble burst and the fact their citizenry hate the CCP with a vengeance, China is going to have difficulties being a new USSR much less a new US.

Anonymous Joe July 25, 2015 11:21 PM  

@19

zen0:
"The whole strategy of the British was to establish rulers from minority groups so that majority groups could not seize power and persecute everybody else."

If that was their strategy for Iraq, it didn't work with Saddam who seized power and persecuted everybody else.

April 19, 2002:
"The [United Nations] Commission on Human Rights … Recalling: … [UNSCR] 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, in which the Council demanded an end to repression of the Iraqi civilian population and insisted that Iraq cooperate with humanitarian organizations and that the human rights of all Iraqi citizens be respected … Strongly condemns: (a) The systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and of international humanitarian law by the Government of Iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror."

zen0:
"You ever notice how new managers always seem to think they should make changes just for the sake of change, so that it does not look like they are passive?"

There were better reasons for Operation Iraqi Freedom than "changes for the sake of change" - see this explanation.

It was working, too, until Obama deviated from Bush. See this and this.

Anonymous cheddarman July 26, 2015 12:00 AM  

Emmanuel Mateo-Morales,




Emmanuel Mateo-Morales


I don't argue with people that cant write coherent sentences. Sober up or learn how to write properly in English.

By the way, your pen name means " God with us, God's gift, and "Right and Proper" none of which you are

Anonymous A Visitor July 26, 2015 12:11 AM  

I'd don't care for Assad but this is one instance where USG needs to support the lesser of two evils. We need to take out ISIS now! On a personal note, if any of the Ilk are in LA and want a unique experience, go to Our Lady of Mount Lebanon on Sunday for Mass. They're Maronites and very welcoming to outsiders.

Being Christians they're our natural allies as far as I'm concerned.

They aren't ="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UBBxGHvjNFM" too bad on the eyes, either.

Blogger bob k. mando July 26, 2015 12:18 AM  

29. cheddarman July 26, 2015 12:00 AM
Emmanuel Mateo-Morales,
I don't argue with people that cant write coherent sentences. Sober up or learn how to write properly in English.



weird.

i thought Morales used to be all right. now he just shows up and concern trolls and tries to shame.

am i misremembering?

Blogger David-093 July 26, 2015 12:25 AM  

@Emmauel Morones

"Fuck off, dude. Everyone of those countries you mentioned wished they were as top dog as to be able to cause and stop the kind of chaos we could, especially the Chinese."

MURICA FUCK YEAH

Get back on your meds. I remember growing up hearing how Superpower America used its military and economic strength wisely (I know, I know) and that it was our responsibility to continue doing so. But sometime after 9/11 that became "we can do whatever the hell we want!!". And you know what happened? America became a degenerate, power-mad kleptocratic oligarchy that believes in using its influence to spread wickedness and depravity.

Is that what you think we should be proud of?

Blogger Groot July 26, 2015 1:09 AM  

@31. bob k. mando
I just googled him on the site (site:voxday.blogspot.com "Emmanuel Mateo-Morales") and I think you're right. His ideas aren't insane, just his delivery, lately, you slave-owner. Maybe 32. David-093 is correct about it being a meds thing.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 26, 2015 1:14 AM  

David-093, declining empires nearly always always lash out and/or go mad dog. The US has been in decline, with a few moments of relief since what 1973 ?

There was no way that we could continue to behave in a benefical way. Heck greed, killing dishonesty and grifting is as much part of our national DNA as the rights of man.

Also no matter what happens, the US is not going to be the hegemon for that much longer. Any nation with an eye on its future better start looking to its own defense and to policies that promote it.

The rules out Europe unless the Ultra Nationalists or the military takes over but Russia is on the ball as much as they can be as is I suspect China and Israel.

And yes the'll be a bit more "hope for change" especially if a Republican gets elected but in the end, its a done deal. Nations are on their own.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 26, 2015 1:51 AM  

A.B. Prosper: "The US has been in decline, with a few moments of relief since what 1973 ?"

1965.

A.B. Prosper: "Heck greed, killing dishonesty and grifting is as much part of our national DNA as the rights of man."

There's been an enormous change in the national DNA.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 26, 2015 2:43 AM  

Whitey McWhite, I agree that 1965 makes good sense as the start of the decline year, its the point where the Left got its act in order and its troops into place and of course the year of the the Immigration reform act .

And ignoring the race issue for a second, nice pun by the way, I was kind of referring to cultural DNA . That too has gotten worse even among Whites.

This is a natural decline in some ways, without going into a long and boring dissertation on Vox's blog , largely we are reaping what was sown and the implosion into a 3rd world culture was fully predictable.

The horrible thing though is had the US remained homogeneous and fairly socially conservative we could have patched in some kind of solution.

As it is, I suspect the 50 State continent wide US is basically done for within a few decades. If it survives it will be a dangerous crappy poor despotism

This will have profound effects on a lot of nations, none of them good.

Of course we could end with a Right takeover too but that won't happen as long as the US Right is mostly Cuckservatives



Anonymous George of the Jungle July 26, 2015 3:28 AM  

The various countries and would-be international power brokers want to use ISIS for their own conflicting purposes. It will be a last laugh literally and figuratively if ISIS ends up using them.

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 26, 2015 3:40 AM  

The various countries and would-be international power brokers want to use ISIS for their own conflicting purposes. It will be a last laugh literally and figuratively if ISIS ends up using them.

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 26, 2015 3:43 AM  

BTW and OT, why do my comments always get deleted after a few minutes when I post them using Pale Moon, but are retained with no problem when I use Explorer?

Blogger Groot July 26, 2015 3:53 AM  

@38. George of the Jungle:
Pale Moon is just a white man exposing his bum. It's just gross, man.

Anonymous zen0 July 26, 2015 4:11 AM  

@28 Joe

If that was their strategy for Iraq, it didn't work with Saddam who seized power and persecuted everybody else.


No. People who tried to overthrow Saddam were persecuted. Christians and other minorities were protected. This is obvious now.

For a good article on the subject which warned about the current mess from 2004:

When Minorities Rule


America cannot revive the Ottoman empire, but it might take a lesson from its legacy: that empire is most effective when it is invisible, that there are things worse than minority rule, that there is no greater evil in the Middle East than an intrusive state, that people who do not rebel deserve to be left alone to run their affairs as they see fit, and that it is wisest not to overturn existing heirarchies, but to maneuver and meander within them. Pursue the idea of majority rule, come what may, and we may eventually find the majority of the Middle East agreed on one thing: that America is an evil empire. That kind of consensus is bound to undermine American interests, and would be the worst outcome of the best intentions.

Blogger VD July 26, 2015 4:12 AM  

Don't cross-comment, Big Gay Steve.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 26, 2015 4:36 AM  

A.B. Prosper @33 , we agree on everything this time.

I also agree with Vox's recommendations too much to have anything useful to add to them.

It's very sad. A better world was there for the taking, but the people who had to make better choices left no evidence of ever having considered the better way. (I've already said what I think that was -- the "cherish the Christian Zionists" option -- and I wouldn't rehash it.) There are better options on the table still, both in America and in the Middle East. They're not going to be taken either.

Anonymous Drogger July 26, 2015 5:19 AM  

I guess I could care... but that's why are best dear well-funded friend Israel is there. Right.... right?

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 July 26, 2015 5:33 AM  

And christian one fights christian two And nations sigh, yet nothing do

mother Shipton had this sorted.

Mental Note:
duplicitous lying charismatic Nobel peace prize winners from Kenya can never be trusted. Follow the money indeed. That stinking fiat money

Blogger Mark Citadel July 26, 2015 5:56 AM  

How much suffering on the part of our brothers in Christ could have been averted if they had won the Lebanese Civil War outright. There would have been a Christian state that all could have fled to.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 26, 2015 7:27 AM  

@WhiteyMcWhite
One thing only recently observed by geneticists is that various behaviours feed back into your DNA. It is not quite Lamarckism, but he wasnt too far off.
This is one reason the po mo crowd consistently misread genetics, mistaking correlation for causation only in one direction, and of course always in the direction that affirms their predispositions.
Human DNA has visibly degraded in the short time we've been able to observe it, and genericists have been shocked at the pace this is occurring.

Anonymous kjj July 26, 2015 10:03 AM  

@12 cheddarman

The petrodollar myth is widely believed, and may even be part or all of the motivation of political leaders, but it is nonsense.

The dollar is holding value because it is the least bad option, not because of any political trickery involving oil sales. The global FOREX system ensures that no one that buys oil needs to hold dollars for that purpose beyond the millisecond before the sale, and it ensure that no oil seller needs to hold them more than the millisecond after the sale.

The notion that countries are forced into long term dollar holdings because they need them to buy oil would make a lot of sense in the pre-telegraph era. It would make a little sense in the pre-internet era. It makes zero sense in the global digital FOREX era.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 26, 2015 10:28 AM  

"I'd don't care for Assad"

Watch out, we got a badass over here!

Blogger bob k. mando July 26, 2015 11:31 AM  

30. Groot July 26, 2015 1:09 AM
I just googled him on the site ... and I think you're right. His ideas aren't insane, just his delivery, lately, you slave-owner.



oh good. i was afraid it was EOA.

old age is a terrible thing.

Blogger Thucydides July 26, 2015 12:02 PM  

One problem with our analysis of the situation is we are looking at it from "our" perspective, i.e. how does ISIS affect us?

The real question is how does ISIS affect the local players, and the answer becomes quite different. ISIS received material support form the Gulf States at first because it was seen as a useful proxy to fight Iran. ISIS promotes a very radicalized Salafist version of Sunni Islam, and their thrust into Syria destabilized and was intended to knock out Syria as an Iranian ally/proxy and isolate Hezbollah in Lebanon by cutting off the overland supply routes.

Turkey was fairly happy to go along with this at first, since ISIS also provided a means of dealing with their Kurdish issues, which had been becoming more intense given the appearance of a de facto Kurdistan in northern Iraq and the rapid growth of Kurdish power in North Eastern Syria, as the Syrian State evacuated its forces to fight the civil war with the implicit understanding that Syrian Kurds would not participate in the war.

Saudi Arabia was also happy to let the situation run, since their policy of pumping oil reduced Iranian revenues while the Iranians were committed to fight ISIS in support of their fellow Shi'ites in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. Having Iran devour its limited resource base reduced the ability of Iran to realize their hegemonic ambitions. Saudi Arabia has hegemonic ambitions or its own, and certainly will not sit aside while apostate Shi'ites are trying to claim the throne (not to mention the Persians are also seen as a hostile ethnic group by both the Arabs and the Turks).

Finally, the ISIS "Caliphate" essentially provides a scorched earth "firebreak" to prevent the Turks form realizing their imperial ambitions of reviving their former sphere of influence in the Middle East.

So there are plenty of reasons driving the events in the Middle East which have nothing to do with the United States or the West, and the sooner we realize that and incorporate them into our understanding the sooner we will be able to make sense of events and lay our own plans to exploit or mitigate what is happening over there. (For example, while Obama's legacy will be the ignition of a Middle Eastern Nuclear arms race, something along these lines would have happened eventually as the various competing players attempted to impose their will on each other).

Anonymous BGS July 26, 2015 1:18 PM  

it didn't work with Saddam who seized power and persecuted everybody else.

Saddam was as good as it gets with that level of multiculturalism. That's what it takes to have order & running water with jews Christians and moslems in the same nation, without people blowing themselves up. Growing up there was a friend of the family who was a Syrian Christian whose family came to the US before the welfare state got as bad as it is. America could use more people like him instead of importing only Syrian moslems at taxpayer expense & putting them on welfare/sect8.

Anonymous cheddarman July 26, 2015 3:14 PM  

The petrodollar myth is widely believed, and may even be part or all of the motivation of political leaders, but it is nonsense. - kjj

kjj, i dont know about the global Forex system. Thanks for that information, i will look into it.

However, I do know that we waged economic war and covert war against countries that were trying to trade or wanted to trade oil in nondollar currencies, including Iraq, Lybia, Syria and Iran. We sucessfully destroyed two of them as nation states, and are close to destroying Syria as a nation state.

It appears as if we had to give up on Iran, as they were sucessful in joining the China/Russia/India/Brazil/et cetera power bloc

Anonymous Pax Romana July 26, 2015 8:01 PM  

@23
I hadn't considered the Revelation account to be the same as the Ezekiel 38 and 39 one; I had always considered them two separate battles. There are definitely some differences, especially since Ezekiel's list of nations that rise against Israel is very specific, but Ezekiel and John could both have been reporting the same event, just focusing on different details.

Anonymous kjj July 26, 2015 8:57 PM  

@50

You listed 4 Islamic shitholes. You think they may have other things in common than wanting to set up their own oil markets?

The Iranian bourse picked up other currencies in 2012, and Obama has been trying to blow their supreme leader ever since. And didn't China and Russia sort out a deal to trade oil in local currencies a while back too?

Blogger Jew613 July 27, 2015 12:01 AM  

There has been a lot of talk in Israel of setting up a druze "safe zone" in southern Syria. If this happens I believe it will be to create a buffer state between Israel and ISIS.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 27, 2015 3:07 AM  

@ScuzzaMan: "Human DNA has visibly degraded in the short time we've been able to observe it, and genericists have been shocked at the pace this is occurring."

This is true.

Anonymous Uncle Pol July 27, 2015 2:07 PM  

@36 Some of my rainy day list items are making Moon Man and Ben Garrison Linux distros. There's one that was done for Justin Beiber with Puppy/Knoppix.

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