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Saturday, July 11, 2015

Paging Mr. Lind

The Pentagon has no idea what to do about 4GW:
The Pentagon is increasingly concerned about how to combat “hybrid warfare,” the combination of stealth invasion, local proxy forces and international propaganda that Russia used to annex Crimea and destabilize eastern Ukraine, U.S. officials said.

Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Thursday released the 2015 National Military Strategy, in which he cited Russia’s actions in Ukraine and said “hybrid conflicts” will persist well into the future.

This kind of warfare transcends traditional notions of one military confronting another by incorporating conventional and unconventional forces, information warfare such as propaganda, as well as economic measures to undermine an enemy, according to Frank Hoffman, a professor at the National Defense University.

“The critique was, and still is, that America’s view of war is overly simplified,” he said. “We think of things in black-and-white terms.”
I suppose I'll have to send Gen. Dempsey a copy of The 4GW Handbook when we publish it in September.

Labels:

126 Comments:

Anonymous DavidKathome July 11, 2015 12:04 PM  

Unfortunately Gen Dempsey is far more concerned with the strategic questions of how to keep money rolling from Congress to the Pentagon than the strategic question of how to succeed at 4GW.

Blogger Edd Jobs July 11, 2015 12:07 PM  

Are advance sales going to be offered?

Anonymous Rolf July 11, 2015 12:11 PM  

The first step is admitting you have a problem. Only 11 more steps to go, Gen Dempsey.

Anonymous Thales July 11, 2015 12:12 PM  

“How do we confront cyberattacks, propaganda campaigns and hybrid warfare?”

Oh, I know the answer to that second one there: capitulate. The US has been doing that since the Soviet days, and it's been 100% successful! #LoveWins!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 11, 2015 12:14 PM  

Dudes we got like the F-35 so chill

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 12:17 PM  

I don't know if this is the answer, but at least it is a response.

From Debka:
Israel merges IDF elite units to form the new Commando Brigade tailored to combat ISIS

The elite units merged into the new commando brigade are:

1. Meglan, which specializes in destroying enemy systems with the accent on armored units. Its members are equipped with intelligence technology for gathering data and its transmission in real time.

2. Duvdevan's tasks are to liquidate targeted terrorists and round up suspects. Its members operate under cover by blending into a hostile population in disguise. They are trained for single combat in the heart of enemy terrain.

3. Egoz commandos employ guerilla tactics borrowed from the books of terrorist organizations.

4. Rimon commandos also blend into a hostile population disguised as locals for the purpose of spotting and foiling terrorist operations in difficult and complex areas.
The commander of the new combined brigade is Col. David Zinni who defers to the 98th (Esh) Division.

Gen. Eisenkott has brought the four elite units together from the Paratroops, Golani and Givati brigades, among which they were formerly distributed. His action capped the reassessment of the IDF’s war doctrine which he found essential for dealing with the new volatile and constantly moving enemy.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 11, 2015 12:28 PM  

@Zen) at #6: How about one or more entire divisions tasked with those objectives?

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 11, 2015 12:29 PM  

The military needs a major overhaul and it's not going to get one. None of the candidates except Webb is interested in doing it and lets face it Webb has no chance of getting on the ticket.

We are still going off of Ludendorf's concept of Total War as a default national strategy. That simply isn't possible for western nations today. Our civilization is too corrupted to do it. The closest we got to that concept recently was back in 1991, with Desert Storm.

The civilians cheered and USA Today put out Extra editions with headlines blaring America at War. But society made no sacrifices. There weren't even any inconveniences. It was a kabuki theater version of Total War.

The US services are defaulting back to their preferred modes of combat and are hoping the world will cooperate and supply them with an enemy that will play by those rules.

The Army still wants to fight the Battle of Fulda Gap. The Marine Corps wants to storm Iwo Jima. And Air Force wants to shoot down the Red Baron. They are building their training regimens accordingly.

More worrying is that the Navy does appears to have a taker in the PLAN.

In terms of tactics the Chinese seem willing to play by the US Navy's rules. But in terms of strategy our cultures are light years apart.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents July 11, 2015 12:36 PM  

Vox, you could send Dempsey a copy but I'm sure his staff would not read it to him.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents July 11, 2015 12:41 PM  

We are still going off of Ludendorf's concept of Total War as a default national strategy.

We are heading away from that at light speed. Only nations can do that, empires don't do it, because of the natinoal unity issue. Heck, it won't be too long before the DOD accepts trannies, probably the Air Force will lead the way on that. There's no way to create Ludendorf's total war machine when significant percentage of the population is viscerallly repulsed by some of those in uniform.

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata July 11, 2015 12:43 PM  

So we need to watch for the Russians in California.

Blogger Jack Ward July 11, 2015 12:47 PM  

Sept. eh? We may need it far sooner than sept. I will, happily, right now, pay triple the going price regardless of state of edit and will happily sign an agreement never to let it out of my sight [computer]. AND, will buy the fully edited version some sept. At least two copies and two of the paper version if available.
I know Castalia does not usually do the paper version until later. Now, would be a great time to forgo that. I think the sales would be there. Hell, if you printed it on field grade waterproof I would buy that. Probably multiple copies.

Anonymous Godfrey July 11, 2015 12:52 PM  

Don't help them. They're the enemy of humanity.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 11, 2015 12:53 PM  

Translation from the main article:
Our systems of mass media propaganda and general brainwashing have not had the desired effects we hoped for.

We did not manage to go to war in Syria. We are not doing so great at full out war in Ukraine and despite massive logistic support ISIS has not yet started a seriously major escalation in the middle east.

Perhaps it's time to turn up the experimental HAARP mind control generators to full blast.

Those pesky Russians use truth as a weapon and that's just unfair.

Blogger The Deuce July 11, 2015 12:57 PM  

I think the solution is obvious: Ease standards for women so we can get more female Marines to fight this menace.

Blogger njartist July 11, 2015 1:03 PM  

how to combat “hybrid warfare,” the combination of stealth invasion, local proxy forces and international propaganda

the military doesn't know how to fight the North Vietnamese/Viet Cong? Congratulations boys you've taken back to 1958!

Blogger Rantor July 11, 2015 1:13 PM  

We have Dempsey's replacement saying Russia is a threat while the Army has announced that they are cutting 40,000 troops and pulling our last two combat brigades out of Germany. We have an irrational Republican Congress acting like hawks but cutting like doves. Zerohedge announces that the national strategy reads like America must dominate the world. (I'll be reading the strategy soon enough, paying bills and getting summer tires on the car have been more improtant today). But with what. Deter Russia by removing combat forces from Germany and Italy?

I am not saying we need to stay in Europe (although I think a moderate deterrent force would be better than total withdrawal), nor do I want a war with Russia (Yes I think US agitprop in Ukraine put us in the mess we are in and is unforgivable) I am arguing that the National Strategy the administration has announced is irrational to the extreme when you look at the actions we plan to take in DoD over the coming years. (cutting 40,000 troops is just the Army piece, and not all of it).

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 1:17 PM  

I don't think Generals want to hear what Mr. Lind has to say.

Rank Incompetence

Why is military incompetence so widespread at the higher levels of America’s armed forces? ........Thomas Ricks’s recent book The Generals has reintroduced into the defense debate a vital factor the press and politicians collude in ignoring: military incompetence. It was a major theme of the Military Reform Movement of the 1970s and ’80s. During those years, a friend of mine who was an aide to a Marine Corps commandant asked his boss how many Marine generals, of whom there were then 60-some, could competently fight a battle. The commandant came up with six. And the Marine Corps is the best of our services.

Blogger Rantor July 11, 2015 1:19 PM  

The new Chairman nominne, USMC General Dunford upset the administration by saying that the number 1 problem is Russia. The White House adn State are busy saying no, No, NO it isn't. can't have Romney being right about anything now.

Now I like Dunford more than Dempsey, he has at least started out by pissing off his masters. Unfortunately I don't know if he will be the kind of guy to maintain the standards of Marine Infantry Officers Course or Ranger School. We will know soon enough.

correction to above, we are pulling last two combat brigades out of Europe, one in Germany, the other in Italy.

Anonymous Miserman July 11, 2015 1:29 PM  

Perhaps American Christians should adopt hybrid warfare in its efforts to push back against the progressive / liberal left and their hybrid war, which has proven successful over the past fifty years. Of course that would require lying and deception through misinformation and misrepresentation and Christianity is heavily steeped in the concepts of truth and reality. Christians lying, deceiving, and backstabbing to win a culture war seems ... well ... un-Christian.

Anonymous ZhukovG July 11, 2015 1:30 PM  

The Pentagon learns nothing, save through humiliating defeat.

But this does point to the ongoing butt hurt over not only failing to deny Russia's Black Sea Fleet access to Sevastopol, but losing the entire Crimean Peninsula as well.

The recent visit to Odessa by a US Navy vessel is the most pathetic attempt at compensation since the comb-over.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 11, 2015 1:35 PM  

All-out war between the U.S. and Russia would help eradicate the remaining white blight that exists in the world. All-out war between any two white countries would help tremendously in fact.

Demographic collapse just isn't happening fast enough.

Blogger Rantor July 11, 2015 1:35 PM  

Hey Zhukov, the Pentagon doesn't even learn from humiliation and defeat...

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 1:40 PM  

> The Pentagon learns nothing, save through humiliating defeat.

Not even then. What Generals had their career path interrupted by losing a war?

There are no consequences. Why should they care.

As Mr. Lind states They know little and care less about their intended product, military victory. Their expertise is in acquiring resources and playing the military courtier.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 11, 2015 1:43 PM  

I just finished Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari. Interesting book, Harari is one of those people who clearly can think in a non-linear fashion and recognize interesting ideas but still get's hung up on the simplest of things.

(NOTE for anyone who takes their religious beliefs seriously contemplating reading the book, Harari is quite clear about labeling religious beliefs as made-up fantasy, though he doesn't have the frothing hatred of most atheists. The thesis of the book is that the success of Homo sapiens has come from creating large scale "myths" - not just religion but he also labels money, nation states, corporations, law, socialism, capitalism, and even human rights as myths - that allow us to cooperate on a scale larger than the extended clan. In that light, he treats religion as a useful tool. Just fair warning. )

Anyway... towards the end in one of the head-slappers, he makes the claim that war is essentially over and goes on to list how few post-WWII invasions there have been, and notes that since then, not a single nation-state recognized by the UN has ceased to exist due to conquest. Of course to reach that conclusion he has to ignore the installation of puppet states, has to ignore revolutions and break-ups that shifted spheres of influence, and has to ignore the infiltration of nations by 4GW actors like ISIS and the Russians.

Harari is a Military Historian. An Israeli one at that.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 11, 2015 1:49 PM  

The number one problem and the only problem is these uSA intervening everywhere. Military doctrine is meaningless if the political leaders do not have a clue.

"cutting 40,000 troops"

And the pentagon budget keeps increasing.

Anonymous ZhukovG July 11, 2015 1:51 PM  

In the past at least, during major conflicts such as WWII, the US has been able to weed out political generals and find a few fighting generals who knew how to win.

The thing that's going to hurt the US is that now our wars don't create the kind of pressure to force replacement of political generals. So unless we get lucky no more Pattons for us. Best we can hope for is an Eisenhower, who combines political skill with organizational skill.

Blogger Anthony July 11, 2015 1:52 PM  

We used to at least understand how to combat "hybrid warfare", even if we weren't very good at it. That was before the MBAs (McNamara) took over the military.

Anonymous Ain July 11, 2015 1:57 PM  

I wonder how much of 4gw are state proxies going at it because the nuclear bomb has ended total war. It seems to go against Lind's recommendation that centers of order ally with each other for stability against 4gw.

Blogger papabear July 11, 2015 2:02 PM  

Yuval Noah Harari

Secular Jew?

Anonymous Eric Ashley July 11, 2015 2:02 PM  

Its simpler than Mr. Lind's brilliance....

1. A Democrat is in office. Republicans can fail, but Democrats never fail to fail.
2. We're interfering right in Russia's front yard, and in a half-baked way.
3. No large group of Americans is in favor of intervening so its just going through the motions half the time. See point two.
4. We have a strong dislike to handing out nukes. So, my plan would be to A. Give the Ukraine back their nukes. B. Teach them how to defend themselves. C. Walk away. D. Sell them the weapons they want to buy.

My plan is, of course, DOA.

And yes, I want to pull our troops from Germany. If Europe's little punks can't defend themselves now, they might as well surrender to the Russians.

Blogger sykes.1 July 11, 2015 2:03 PM  

If Dempsey doesn't understand what happened in Ukraine, hoe can he he to combat hybrid warfare?

Anonymous The Obvious July 11, 2015 2:07 PM  

Perhaps these two interviews might explain the problems the military has. (Satire)

Bird and Fortune: George Parr, Army General

Bird & Fortune - Admiral Sir George Parr

Anonymous Jack Amok July 11, 2015 2:13 PM  

Yuval Noah Harari

Secular Jew?


Gay too, according to Wikipedia.

Anonymous Spirit of 76 July 11, 2015 2:17 PM  

I served in Iraq (I am no longer in service) and am presently contemplating the employment of 4G in CONUS. Just for the the satisfaction of my intellectual curiosity, you understand.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 11, 2015 2:21 PM  

I think the 1st advice the Pentagon ought to give the Congress is to reign in the Leftists before they start 4GW here, Its too damned close for comfort now or perhaps long overdo

And they ought to emphasize that they almost certainly can't win, huge chunks of the military and veterans may well side with the rebels and there is nowhere to hide.

of course they won't do this but hey, sow, reap

Blogger Tom Kratman July 11, 2015 2:23 PM  

Wouldn't matter. Americans simply _can't_ think about 4GW (which I think of as 0GW, anyway). We can't think about it because the solutions to it are not technological, have no place for social engineering, are unfriendly to feminism - indeed, do not even require sending women to Ranger School, are fairly immune to throwing money at the problem, etc., etc. The solution involves nukes and nails, terror on a level Mongol and Roman centurion would understand and applaud, and, frankly, elimination of the domestic machine - the lefties, the liberals, the tranzies, and the local chapter of ICOTESCAS - which are, far more than hijacked planes, and IEDs, the enemy's chief weapons. Even people willing to nuke Riyadh over 911 are probably not willing to toss the constitution so that we can get rid of enemies of the constitution. In short, we're fucked' we're doomed.

Anonymous Roundtine July 11, 2015 2:32 PM  

In order to fight 4GW, USG must admit what it really stands for. Homosexuality, feminism, anti-religion, Keynesian economics and socialist democracy. No wonder they want a robot army so badly.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 11, 2015 2:40 PM  

Even people willing to nuke Riyadh over 911 are probably not willing to toss the constitution so that we can get rid of enemies of the constitution. In short, we're fucked' we're doomed.

Ah, but that's were our enemies come in so handy. They're willing to toss the constitution for us. We just have to do them the courtesy of taking what they say seriously and we'll be fine. For some definitions of "fine" anyway.

Anonymous Quartermaster July 11, 2015 2:46 PM  

Tom, the only thing that will save this country from political bloodshed is a peaceful break up of the US. I doubt that will happen. Civil War is likely and 4GW is least of my worries in that regard.

Anonymous old man in a villa July 11, 2015 2:48 PM  

Everyone is quick to criticize the top brass@ the Pentagon, but you don't have the right until you've walked a mile in their high heeled pumps.

Blogger David-093 July 11, 2015 2:55 PM  

@Tom Kratman

Women actually can help combat 4th gen warfare, though not in the way thats HR friendly for the Pentagon.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 11, 2015 3:12 PM  

These uSA are like a dying oak, extending huge, long branches outward but rotting in the core. Those branches, extending into foreign lands just add more stresses to the structure. Too much energy in growing but none in healing.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 11, 2015 3:12 PM  

Tom, the reason we can't use those methods is less moral, that's an issue sure but far more people than we need would be would be willing to do the bad stuff. Its a matter of a society that is too complex and brittle. Calling exterminatus on the Left would end up causing so much damage to society it might not recover for generations if ever.

Also its not just a Black and White, Left/Right issue, I hate the Social Left (Cultural Marxists) but the people who point out that huge level of inequality and lack of social mobility are huge problems are correct. No one knows how to fix them and while I'd be delighted to be rid of the Left for good, being governed by Globalists Oligarchs of any kind is nearly as bad and more than a few of them are "Right" by many measures,

Also its not like some of Left can't do the same stuff be just as violent. They won't win but they can make it cost a shit-ton and a modern society that killed by violence and atrocity upwards of 1/3 of its population and burned its cities and suburbs to the ground is going to be more akin to the Sudan and Rwanda and stay that way. As Ann Coulter put it "The natural state of man is Darfur, not America."

And yes , it wasn't like this in the past , we could recover faster but technology is quite different, it far harder to recover from "Complex Post Industrial Hack-fest" than "Iron Age Slave State Rebellion." ala Rome or Medieval Feudalism gone bad .

Lastly, recovery kind of presumes a natural desire for men to be Delta Dads. I'm not sure that is the case and I'm not sure post hack-fest Men will want to pick up the yoke. Nothing really in it for them.

All that said I think we are probably fucked too for much the same reasons as well as the crossover issues of technology and wealth distribution.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 11, 2015 3:26 PM  

The problem with the generals is not that they're incompetent to reply effectively to modern attacks - although that is a problem - but THE problem with the generals is that they're choosing the battles and the wars. Americans, in my experience, like to comfort themselves with pretty lies and soothing fantasies, and one of these is the idea that the armed forces are under civilian control.

Plainly, the generals who nominate America's primary enemies on the 6 O'Clock News didn't get the memo.

Blogger Danby July 11, 2015 3:34 PM  

The only only only solution is conversion. Until men turn to God, wholeheartedly, there can be no resolution.

A friend of mine is fond of the saying "There is only one revolution." by which he means the personal, internal revolution of thought. He's half right. There is no salvation for men or for nations separate from God.

The single most revolutionary act you can commit is to see things as they are.

Anonymous Eric Ashley July 11, 2015 3:37 PM  

A.B. Prosper, didn't you read 'Victoria'? We can wave a magic wand, and the Left will shoot themselves. Its not like both sides before the Civil War thought they'd be done by Christmas, or that the Left would be willing to nuke Atlanta and Houston if it got them their way.

We haz magik.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) July 11, 2015 3:50 PM  

One night The ATF Show had a pair of US and Finnish SpecOps guys. One of them commented that the Russian military in the Ukraine was operating like the US SpecWar guys would and that that was a new disturbing ability that they've learned recently. I think there's dark corners of our military who have the answers Mr. Dempsey is looking for.

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 11, 2015 4:00 PM  

Tom, the only thing that will save this country from political bloodshed is a peaceful break up of the US. I doubt that will happen.

Both conservatives and silicon valley want to break CA up into different states. Conservatives want the north with per captia share of the debt, and SV wants 6 with no one holding the debt.

Women actually can help combat 4th gen warfare, though not in the way thats HR friendly for the Pentagon.

Baking hemlock cupcakes?

Even people willing to nuke Riyadh over 911 are probably not willing to toss the constitution so that we can get rid of enemies of the constitution. In short, we're fucked' we're doomed.

The constitution has already been trashed, you have to clean house before you can reinstate it.

In order to fight 4GW, USG must admit what it really stands for. Homosexuality, feminism, anti-religion, Keynesian economics and socialist democracy.

You forgot affirmative action, single moms and pedophilia

A.B. Prosper, didn't you read 'Victoria'? We can wave a magic wand, and the Left will shoot themselves.

Actually you have to cut power to die vese cities at the first of the month so they Free Stuff Army will take care of disingenuous white liberals for us. The food stamp system going down on 10-12-2013 for 8 hours in 16 states was a preview for the nigapocalypse.

Blogger Joe Keenan July 11, 2015 4:00 PM  

Judging by many of the posts here, many do not understand the nature of the American Empire. The Military Industrial Complex is a creation of the political class. The MIC exists to carry out the wishes on the political class. Promotion in the military is dependent on conforming to/reflecting the beliefs of, the political class. All wars are fought according to the dictates of the political class. Vietnam dragged on because that's what the political class wanted. This is true in every war. If the plitical class wanted ISIS destroyed, it would be. It's not, because they don't.

Anonymous Ain July 11, 2015 4:35 PM  

A.B.: "I think the 1st advice the Pentagon ought to give the Congress is to reign in the Leftists before they start 4GW here, Its too damned close for comfort now or perhaps long overdo"

We already have it in the shape of gangs and drug cartels. Even the knock out game is a form of 4GW.

Blogger Michael Lawson July 11, 2015 4:42 PM  

Miserman
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Blogger Danby July 11, 2015 4:58 PM  

Now it’s serious! Venezuela is almost out of beer

I'm not sure it gets much worse than that.

Blogger Doom July 11, 2015 5:11 PM  

I am afraid, due to political vagaries, even if he understood... which I think he is quite capable... it would still be lost on him. A gift to such a man has it's value, however. Even if he takes it as a sting.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 11, 2015 5:35 PM  

@A.B. Prosper at #44: A.B., this isn't meant as a personal attack on you, but you're SO wrong on SO many points that I cannot resist pointing them out. So here goes....

Its a matter of a society that is too complex and brittle. Wrong. It's *easier* for a post-industrial society to bounce back, because the knowledge is not lost, despite all the dystopian sci fi tropes to the contrary.

Calling exterminatus on the Left would end up causing so much damage to society it might not recover for generations if ever. Wrong. Countries that have called exterminatus on the left just in the past 100 years are doing fine, including Chile, Argentina, Spain, and Indonesia.

the people who point out that huge level of inequality and lack of social mobility are huge problems are correct. No one knows how to fix them Wrong. Inequality is not a "huge problem," it is a natural result of reality and human biodiversity. Thus, there is nothing to "correct" other than the threat of the people who seek to destroy civilization in order to "correct" the "huge problem."

Also its not like some of Left can't do the same stuff be just as violent. They won't win but they can make it cost a shit-ton and a modern society that killed by violence and atrocity upwards of 1/3 of its population and burned its cities and suburbs to the ground is going to be more akin to the Sudan and Rwanda and stay that way Wrong. We are not Sudanese and we are not Rwandans, and the process of solving the problem of the Left does not involve "burning our cities to the ground." But even if that were true we wouldn't "stay that way," for the same reason that we don't look like the Sudan and Rwanda now.

Dammit! I've got a poker game coming up, so I can't continue. Gotta go. Will win big of course. But in the meantime, there are at least a half dozen OTHER total errors in your posting above, A.B.

Sorry.



Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 11, 2015 5:36 PM  

What the heck?! This is insane...

Dear Lord help us, the MIC is out of control.

Paging Lind and Crevald for answers, solutions and clarity - what an utter disaster in military history. Then again, war is hell.

The 4GW HB is going to be regarded as required reading.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 11, 2015 5:58 PM  

The American view of war should be black or white. It is pretty simple, is another nation threatening our shores? Yes or No? If it is "yes", then deal with the threat. If it is "no", then mind our own business.

The last war where American troops fought to defend their homes, their uniforms were gray and they lost the war. We should have stayed out of every conflict since.

Anonymous cheddarman July 11, 2015 6:03 PM  

well, there is one visible ray of hope in the darkness...an American expat living in Italy seems to be directing an effective cultural counterinsurgency against the cultural Marxists...he seems to be quite adept at it, actually...those in despair should take note and learn

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 6:04 PM  

Gay too, according to Wikipedia.

Is his first thought "Is it good for the gays" or "Is it good for the Jews?"

Blogger Groot July 11, 2015 6:05 PM  

OT, but these people know how to treat a tree:

http://www.citylab.com/tech/2015/07/when-you-give-a-tree-an-email-address/398219/

Take a lesson, folks.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 11, 2015 6:06 PM  

."by which he means the personal, internal revolution of thought."

Isn't that a definition of jihad? LOL

" Military Industrial Complex"

Originally, in the draft of the sperch it was " Military Industrial Congressional Complex."

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 6:08 PM  

Is Donald Trump (nee Drumpf) fighting a 4th GW war for the presidency?

I suspect they will get him.

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 6:15 PM  

If Dempsey wrote fiction would it be as good as Kratman's novels?

I think not but could be mistaken.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja July 11, 2015 6:38 PM  

4gw is intensely political, and if you lack the proper political strategy, the operational strategy will always fail.

Anonymous BGS July 11, 2015 7:23 PM  

Trump just gave a live speech. Liked everything except he sounds like he might fix obamacare with one payer socialism. 4,000 got turned away HillIARy hardly gets more than press.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMQYzKhsnGM

Gay too, according to Wikipedia. Is his first thought "Is it good for the gays" or "Is it good for the Jews?"

I wish Soros shills asked "Is it good for the gays" wait until Gay Divorce Court.

Blogger macengr July 11, 2015 7:27 PM  

Can I just say that if that's the cover art, I would buy the book just for that?

Anonymous BGS July 11, 2015 7:32 PM  

Trump had all the reporters get on their knees.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 11, 2015 7:47 PM  

VFM Bot #188, we are all grown ups and pretty free of gammas. I don't think anyone would take offense at what you said. I usre didn't, no apology necessary.

Now re: your ideas. I think you are seeing ACW2 as a modest Right Wing Junta with a few disappeared Leftists and only a little atrocity. I agree that with good leadership its possible to bounce back pretty fast from such a thing

I don't see that easy an outcome as likely, I'm seeing a multi-racial complex hack-fast with mass casulties.

using Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship_of_Chile_(1973%E2%80%9390)

Taking Chile as an example, its highest estimated number of deaths was about 30,000 out of 10 million or about .3% lts say 10x this has pretty severe psychiatric trauma or about 3% of the population

My guess is the US will have much higher casualty levels maybe 20 million deaths call it 7% of the population or 22x higher and psychiatric causalities nearing 1/2 or more.

That level of damage will greatly slow any recovery especially with the need to reindustrialize

Anonymous DT July 11, 2015 7:49 PM  

We can wave a magic wand, and the Left will shoot themselves.

Well...if we can convince them that suicide is the only way to stop Glowbull Warmingz, they might just willingly drink the Kool-Aid.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 11, 2015 7:59 PM  

Is his first thought "Is it good for the gays" or "Is it good for the Jews?"

As BGSs comment hints at, an awful lot of people seem to get the wrong answers when the ask those questions.

Funny thing reading the book though, Harari was never overtly jewish or gay. There was generalized background SJWism going on (e.g. using "she/her" instead of "he/him" as generic pronouns), but for a while I wasn't sure if he was a genuine SJW or if he was conducting an epic troll of SJWs.

Anonymous Mike M. (minion #315) July 11, 2015 8:01 PM  

Discussions like this reming me of Admiral Tom Hayward's immortal words, "I'm sick and tired of hearing about the threat. Let US be the threat."

Sage counsel.

Concur with LCOL Kratman that 4GW = 0GW. All military history is cyclic...if you had praised Patton for inventing 3GW, he'd have laughed in your face and reminded you of Napoleon.

With regard to the current situation, I've got several observations.

First, our media is part of the enemy. They can be relied on to spread enemy propaganda in preference to our own. The obvious measure is wartime censorship...combined with selective conscription. Why risk a valuable robot to defuse a bomb when you can use a treacherous reporter?

Second, our own people are terrible at PR. I can remember a time when the Navy, in particular, was very forward-leaning in public affairs. Today? The attitude is very much to flee from anything resembling a reporter. Which leaves the propaganda battlespace to the foe.

Third, the American electorate will NOT stand for a conflict that lasts much more than 36 months. This has been a constant throughout our history - 36 months after the fighting starts, the public expects to see a victory within reach or a disengagement being attempted. Or it will go Very Hard for the party in power come Election Day. This means that we must win fast...and rely for counterinsurgency on allies. Reagan's campaigns in Central America were complete victories...but he had the sense to let the locals do the fighting.

Fourth, we MUST not forget our own advantages. Fight OUR way, not theirs. We can hit terribly hard with seapower and airpower. As Hayward said, "Let US be the threat."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 11, 2015 9:04 PM  

"We" how quaint, perhaps Lord Obama should start a foreign war so all you "We" people can rush off to fight, but you will have F-35 for air cover

Anonymous A Visitor July 11, 2015 9:28 PM  

But but but...we have the F-35, F-22, and the Abrams! WE NEED MOAR!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, when I worked out at Fort Irwin, I took a tour of "the box." It was enlightening to say the least. The chief of staff of the base a half bird colonel explained that beginning January of last year they were moving towards a hybrid warfare training environment which to me seems smart in the short term. FYI: Anyone, U.S. citizen or foreign national (there were two chicks from Canada on my tour) can tour it. Just go to Fort Irwin's web site, click on box tours, see when they're having one that matches up with your schedule go. It's a good time. Say hi to the 11th ACR if you see'em! ALLONS!

While it is doubtful we will have a 3rd generation war (then again, who could've predicted two years ago that Putin would swallow Crimea; thank the Almighty Ukraine was not a part of NATO!) in the near future, it still will be necessary to keep that competency for at least the next decade or two. There was an article written in Small Wars Journal (I just got back from an all day thing, too lazy to search to be frank) in 2010 by a tank commander warning entire tank crews had deployed to Afghanistan without qualifying on the Abrams. His point was we were (I don't know if we've rectified it, I hope we have!) coming close to losing our ability to do combined arms breach, which is how state on state war is fought (in the beginning at least, pre insurgency).

So, two thoughts: 1) this could be the Pentagon's theme song, Congress' for that matter, with their unwillingness to change and 2) Let' see what Kevin has to say about not adapting to new military environments.

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 9:54 PM  

67. BGS July 11, 2015 7:32 PM

Trump had all the reporters get on their knees.


I bet they liked that better than being cordoned off by Hillarybots, eh?

Anonymous Billy July 11, 2015 10:15 PM  

This Yuval Noah Harari guy is a natural born piece of shit. I read the amazon page for Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind and this crock of shit book had 506 reviews with the majority 5 stars. Yeah were pretty fucked. A gay athiest jew huh.

Blogger commoncents July 11, 2015 10:23 PM  

Judge Jeanine Pirro - Opening Statement - Sanctuary Cities , Kate Steinle - Fox News - July 11, 2015


http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/07/judge-jeanine-pirro-opening-statement.html

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 10:24 PM  

The meeting in Paris has probably concluded. I hope there is a manifesto.

Anonymous paradox July 11, 2015 10:34 PM  

VD,

Don't send a copy to Dempsey. While I'm sure he wouldn't read it. Let's not even remotely help them, let Grand Gay Army of the Rainbow Republic rot.

Anonymous zen0 July 11, 2015 10:54 PM  



Don't send a copy to Dempsey. While I'm sure he wouldn't read it. Let's not even remotely help them, let Grand Gay Army of the Rainbow Republic rot

.Don't trouble yourself, paradox.

Vox would not waste a copy on a moron like Dempsey.

He is not really interested in doing anything functional, he is just making noises that might get him some traction in the milicratic service.

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 11:17 PM  

“Sapiens tackles the biggest questions of history and of the modern world, and it is written in unforgettably vivid language.” (Jared Diamond, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Guns, Germs, and Steel, Collapse, and The World until Yesterday)

No doubt Harari also believes that Papua New Guinea Highlanders are the smartest people in the world.

Maybe it's a Jewish joke.

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 11:28 PM  

“Sapiens tackles the biggest questions of history and of the modern world, and it is written in unforgettably vivid language.” (Jared Diamond, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Guns, Germs, and Steel, Collapse, and The World until Yesterday)

No doubt Harari also believes that Papua New Guinea Highlanders are the smartest people in the world.

Maybe it's a Jewish joke.

Anonymous The other robot July 11, 2015 11:29 PM  

Vaccines and Narcolepsy and Auto-immune disease?

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 11, 2015 11:34 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 11, 2015 11:39 PM  

The problem with being the threat is that walking around with a big stick, sooner or later, everyone gets tired of careless breaking of things accidentally, not to mention breaking things purposely that w have no business breaking.

Blogger Curtis July 11, 2015 11:56 PM  

That's funny, there are a lot of qualified ex SOF guys out there right now training civilians for just that. Everything from combat through Intel.

Blogger Curtis July 12, 2015 12:00 AM  

international propaganda that Russia used to annex Crimea and destabilize eastern Ukraine

Right. We didn't spend 5 BILLION USD to destabilize Ukraine. Lies! All lies! It was bribe money!

Blogger Forex Trading July 12, 2015 12:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 July 12, 2015 12:26 AM  

I've been watching and waiting like everyone else. The reason 'Christians' can't see a way out of this is 'there isn't one'. Having pushed prayer out of school, everything else is sequelae.
Watched Robert DeNiro play Hub last night in 'second hand lions' It has this strange every man for himself sort of fatalism to it: Hub: Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.
It was a fitting but saccharine bit of weepy eyed bullshit.
It does matter if its true. Truth matters like nothing else.
Stupefied by relativism means you've/ they've fucked every sense of logic, empirical truth, rational coherent argument available to you.
Unless the Lord builds a house they labour in vain. Insert Jesus for Lord.
look up, cheers

Blogger Feather Blade July 12, 2015 12:51 AM  

Meglan, which specializes in destroying enemy systems with the accent on armored units.

Which accent are they putting on the armored units - acute, grave or circumflex?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 12, 2015 2:13 AM  

True ChedderBro, there is a hilarious ray of hope. Can you imagine how the boomers are going to continue to throw fits as 4GW says 'no' and makes 'no' known?!

Blogger Groot July 12, 2015 2:39 AM  

@55. VFM bot #188:
"but you're SO wrong on SO many points": A.B. Prosper is fecund with the wrong. It is rare that he doesn't stir a battering of "A.B., you confused idiot'" with every post. Your patience will wear out before his stupid does. You have my condolences.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 12, 2015 2:45 AM  

SEO is a very popular way to top rank your site here are variety of softwares...

Oh, so... the Ilk bigwigs go off to party in Gay Pair-ee and (probably gayer) Austin and spammers leak through. Fellow minions, we're on our own, our leadership has abandoned us.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 12, 2015 3:50 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zONMBOFNKXI

I thought it was exaggarated, but the weasel faced Jew called Bill Maher is even more worthy of being printed on a speedbag than I could've ever imagined.

Did I do well in the comments? :D

Anonymous Wyrd July 12, 2015 4:02 AM  

Bill Maher is a tired-ass whore-monger.

Anonymous Discard July 12, 2015 5:14 AM  

BigGaySteve: I think you've got the key. Shut down all the EBT cards in ghettos and barrios nationwide. Perfectly doable, by a knowledgeable techie I would think. Don't banks close overdrawn accounts at will?
Let the diverse run wild. The unprepared Whites will bear the brunt, utility companies will guard their power plants and pumping stations (Yes, they have contingency plans, and rifles to back them), and the prepared will clean up later. Even Hiroshima is a thriving city today. Surely the ill-effects of your nigapocalypse could be set right in a few years.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 12, 2015 7:44 AM  

PhillipGeorge©2015, that dialog ruined the movie for me.

Blogger Rantor July 12, 2015 8:52 AM  

@phillipgeorge,

All Christians should disagree at the point where he says people are basically good. No. People are basically fallen, without God they are not good. Oh they may try to conform to what society says is good, but that is not what God says is good. Just look at the Supreme Court, several of them have no idea what is truly good. They just make up stuff.

Blogger Noah B #120 July 12, 2015 10:05 AM  

Paris must have been one hell of a party.

Blogger Jack Ward July 12, 2015 10:48 AM  

Hey Ilk. Cannot you even do without Vox a few days? Really, we are all adults here and professionals [we are the Ilk!] we can handle this.
Recco more bourbon.

Anonymous The other robot July 12, 2015 11:25 AM  

Greeks must bend over and spread em!

Blogger Groot July 12, 2015 11:25 AM  

@88. PhillipGeorge©2015:
"Robert DeNiro": How many decades is he into the "will bang no ho but a black one" now?

@99. Jack Ward:
It is pretty pathetic, isn't it?

Blogger maniacprovost July 12, 2015 11:26 AM  

Jack Ward,

Please, sir, I am trying to loot some TVs here.

Anonymous Eric Ashley July 12, 2015 11:35 AM  

BGS, a legit point. However, I don't see the city leaders just hiding and dying when the diverse start to track them down.

I'd see the military and police mobilized, and if things went really bad, the ROE would be radically loosened on the diverse.

Its also my opinion that the leaders of the diverse and Kim Jong have a lot in common. Neither wants to really thrown down because they know they'd be destroyed quickly.

So, the diverse mobs, mob up, Roe's get loosened, and the leaders all council calming down. The police and army go out to engage the power line cutters...

Some success on both sides.

Not sure what happens next.

Anonymous The other robot July 12, 2015 11:56 AM  

I'd see the military and police mobilized, and if things went really bad, the ROE would be radically loosened on the diverse.

Do the police and military want to die for idiotic politicians and elites?

What happens if the diverse get hold of mixtures of gasoline and styrofoam in bottles?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 12, 2015 12:21 PM  

I've read some of the anti-gay comments upthread, and let me say as having served, gay men will not ruin the service but gay identity politics will utterly destroy the services. IMO all the identity politics will destroy the services.

FTR this is the opinion of a straight white man who just doesn't give a fuck about PC.

Anonymous Wyrd July 12, 2015 12:21 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger MendoScot July 12, 2015 12:25 PM  

Well, for Ilk in withdrawals, here's a nice long essay on Tolkein, Lewis and the defense of the West

Tolkien wrote to his son Christopher. “I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate realm of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate!”

Anonymous FAILBOAT July 12, 2015 2:40 PM  

This stuff is completely unsurprising to any student of Soviet Cold War era unconventional warfare doctrine. The Russians don't call it "4GW", because unlike the West, they understood WWII for what it was, and are applying its' lessons, over and over again, just like the Soviets did in every 20th century conflict.

Anonymous Quartermaster July 12, 2015 2:42 PM  

If some of you ilk are feeling a bit bereft, just break into VD's likker locker and drown your sorrows.

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 12, 2015 2:55 PM  

utility companies will guard their power plants and pumping stations (Yes, they have contingency plans

For miles of high tension power lines? How hard is it to make thermite again?

gay men will not ruin the service but gay identity politics will utterly destroy the services

Having been gay in the military I would say at best 1 out of 6 gays in the military are better than the blacks/women in the military.

Gay Pair-ee and (probably gayer) Austin Austin is far gayer than Paris.
BGS, a legit point. However, I don't see the city leaders just hiding and dying when the diverse start

Every city that gets rush hour traffic would have transportation crippled by a few boxes of thumbtacs at a some interchanges. The free stuff army might not get the biggest fish who know how bad non Asian minorities are but lie about equality, but no one would leave the die verse city alive that believed in equality.

The police and army go out to engage the power line cutters

No one would be standing around, they wouldn't cut the lines but down the towers, and you wouldn't want to be near when they fall.

I'd see the military and police mobilized, and if things went really bad, the ROE

Katrina & Sandy had over a weeks notice and over 1/3 of NO cops abandoned their posts. Read ""Dear Mr. Security Agent." A Cautionary Essay From Matt Bracken. " http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/01/dear-mr-security-agent-cautionary-essay.html

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 12, 2015 3:58 PM  

Groot you aren't too bad at claiming my ideas are stupid , that's fine but why don't you offer yours instead?

Do you or does anyone here really think that the US will have some kind of velvet divorce if things go to hell. Given our history and some basic observation skills its seems highly unlikely.

I'll link you to Matt Bracken on the issue. His ideas along with others and some basic observation lead me to my opinions which are within the limits of my understanding pretty close to his.

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2010/07/bracken-cw2-cube-mapping-meta-terrain.html

Now as to economic issues, anyone who thinks the economy or the environment would suffer from laissez faire, libertarian neo-liberalism is willfully foolish, a fanatical Right/Wing ideologue or has a poor grasp of history.

Pretty much every economic improvement from the 40 hour work week, overtime safe work conditions , clean air and water (anyone remember the unbearably dirty California air in the 70's or the Cayuga River Fire I do) better wages, etc were a direct product of government regulation. Sometimes regulation is necessary and in the end you can't stint on the actual costs of civilization.

We've been doing this, trying to avoid paying for thinsg since the founding of the country (c.f slavery) but TANSTAAFL and the costs have come do.

Certainly mass immigration, the dysgenic welfare class, the inability cultural Marxists and Progs to leave well enough alone , the cost of the MIC and feminism, marriage 2.0 among other stressors make the people who keep things running be able to or even want to pay the bloated costs less and less and that is IMO what will lead to the implosion of the system.

And in case anyone asks, its going to be an amazing uphill battle to fix things after if it can be done. ,

Its beyond Right/Left, White/Not White and even rebuilding our depleted economy. Heck many people aren't Christian nor do they want to be and nor can they easily be made to be. You aren't getting cheap social capital from there either, Rebuilding anything may prove to be too hard

You might find it interesting that two of our largest Christian denominations, L.D.S (the 4th largest) . and Evangelical (probably grouped together the 2nd) are bitter rivals. I would not be surprise to see outright religious warfare, Mostly Whites (Evangelicals) killing other Mostly Whites (LDS) as heretics . Around here, So-Cal many Evangelicals I know think LDS is Satanic and given a chance I think they will kill them or drive them off.

If you think otherwise on some of these issue , say so. Hey maybe I'm wrong. I'm open to hearing useful ideas.

Personal insults or gamma style snark however is unworthy of anyone here.

Anonymous Discard July 12, 2015 4:02 PM  

BigGaySteve: In the aftermath of a Nigapocalypse, replacing power lines is the work of a few weeks. Maybe wooden poles instead of steel towers, but the juice would flow. OTOH, power stations could take years to rebuild, so you defend those.
BTW, do you really think that rioting Blacks would learn to make thermite and make the effort to take down the power towers? Unlikely, to me. Simple smash and burn and shoot is more their style.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 12, 2015 4:39 PM  

Discard. Who says its just going to be Blacks doing this? Its just as likely crazies (or groups of them) enemy agents wanting to make the US permanently weaker, terrorists, drug dealers or some other group.

Heck Some on the Right/White might be in on it to deprive Op-For of resources to to help speed up the elimination of the dysgenic class.

Also repairing things and keeping them repaired will depend on a high degree of order. Depending on the nature of the crash, when it happens and so on, it might prove more useful to simply ignore parts of the grid.

In the end we may never in our lifetimes have wall to wall infrastructure, regular power or water or a the other trappings of a 1st world country.Heck the infrastructure is already crumbling right now and it may fail on its own in places.

Or PGNR may just rebuild. I honestly do not know and as no one else does, I can see as angry as people are why they aren't cheer-leading ACW 2.0

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 12, 2015 7:12 PM  

BTW, do you really think that rioting Blacks would learn to make thermite and make the effort to take down the power towers?

@ 112. Discard- seriously contemplate that a faggot understands Bracken better than you do., unless you have sucked more cocks than me. No the people setting the Free Stuff Army on the disingenuous liberals would be making the thermite. The riots would be after the power/EBT goes out. Every time power goes out in a non-Asian minority-majority area there is looting. Without power many cities are unlivable not just in the summer heat or winter cold. Katrina having blacks shoot at medevac helicopters shows reversion to the mean of Somalia.

Most cities have run out of the legacy of White Privilege. Most of LA's water infrastructure was laid down by Asian/White men with shovels picks and mules over the course of a year over 100 years ago, they over engineered it to accommodate natural growth. Now just fixing a single water main in LA is the work of years with heavy equipment and low IQ affirmative action workers since they have used up the over engineering safety gap.

Anonymous Heaviside July 12, 2015 8:55 PM  

>The Russians don't call it "4GW", because unlike the West, they understood WWII for what it was, and are applying its' lessons, over and over again, just like the Soviets did in every 20th century conflict.

I'm hesitant to say this because there is so much I still don't understand, but 4GW may have its roots in the fact that WWII didn't end in 1945 -- not in Asia, nor in Europe.

>Even Hiroshima is a thriving city today.

Japan had the benefit of American assistance. Who will help Americans after the collapse?

Blogger Floyd Looney July 12, 2015 10:05 PM  

That pic is cool

Anonymous Discard July 13, 2015 2:40 AM  

A.B.Prosper: I brought up Blacks specifically in response to BGS's comment. I agree that others would join in any mayhem, but I think they'd all get put down pretty quickly by some of the 100 million law-abiding gun owners in the country. Note how, in times of riot, Whites get their guns out and Darks stay away and burn their own neighborhoods. The armed White homeowner may not scare the 2nd Armored Division, but he scares the riffraff.

I also agree that some parts of the grid might be allowed to go to ruin. SoCal and much of the American west are overbuilt, and cutting off the water would do a lot to accelerate the repatriation of La Raza as well.

BigGaySteve: I freely acknowledge that you understand Bracken better than I do, as I've never heard of him. I'm not trying to be a general here, just a curious sergeant.
Regarding the coming White privilege legacy shortage, I repeat what I said to A.B.Prosper. Much of the country is overbuilt, and there's no nice way to unbuild it. Things will come apart, and capable people will put back together the things that are needed. The low IQ'd AA hires will not be needed.

Heaviside: Japan had their 60 largest cities leveled, their transportation systems wrecked, no fuel, and they were not self-sufficient in food. In the event of some kind of mass economic collapse, race war, and mass suicide of SJWs, we would still have food, shelter, tools and fuel. Maybe not as much as before, but enough.

Anonymous Quartermaster July 13, 2015 10:27 AM  

“You might find it interesting that two of our largest Christian denominations, L.D.S (the 4th largest) . and Evangelical (probably grouped together the 2nd) are bitter rivals. I would not be surprise to see outright religious warfare, Mostly Whites (Evangelicals) killing other Mostly Whites (LDS) as heretics . Around here, So-Cal many Evangelicals I know think LDS is Satanic and given a chance I think they will kill them or drive them off.”

I’m Evangelical and the likelihood of Evangelicals hunting down the LDS as heretics is unlikely in the extreme. Mormons are outside of Christianity because of their view of Christology and Theology proper, but Evangelicals aren’t going to be hunting them down as heretics. The declaration is sufficient.

“Or PGNR may just rebuild. I honestly do not know and as no one else does, I can see as angry as people are why they aren't cheer-leading ACW 2.0”

There was no ACW 1.0. The war of 1861-’65 was a war of independence for the south and a war of imperial conquest for the north. This country has never seen civil war, but there appears to be an increasing likelyhood that it will in the not too distant future. The few people that seem to be saying “bring it on” have no idea what they are asking for, and the left is utterly clueless as to what they are setting up. No one with two brain cells to run together wants a civil war. Lincoln’s war was bad enough.

Blogger racketmensch July 13, 2015 6:04 PM  

Someone should tell Dumpster* that the PTB don't want to win any wars; that there's a reason we haven't since '45. We are essentially anti-firemen that start fires and keep them burning. If we ever won anything, we wouldn't need to borrow a trillion bozo-bucks a year, and then what would the bankers do? Payday loans?

*He probably does knows this, doesn't care

Blogger racketmensch July 13, 2015 6:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Steve Canyon July 13, 2015 8:01 PM  

The police aren't showing much competence in 4GW either.

Blogger Groot July 14, 2015 12:17 AM  

@111. A.B. Prosper

"Groot you aren't too bad at claiming my ideas are stupid , that's fine but why don't you offer yours instead?"

You get points for remaining civil, so I will respond in kind.

"Do you or does anyone here really think that the US will have some kind of velvet divorce if things go to hell. Given our history and some basic observation skills its seems highly unlikely.

I'll link you to Matt Bracken on the issue. ... within the limits of my understanding pretty close to his.

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2010/07/bracken-cw2-cube-mapping-meta-terrain.html"

This doesn't offend me. It's a much less granular view of what Charles Murray covers in Coming Apart (which I highly recommend, if you like Matt Bracken), or of what Joel Kotkin writes about. A very important element Bracken misses is that the very white rich cities (S.F., Austin, Seattle) or the most segregated cities (Washington, D.C., New York City, Chicago) are the densely populated centers of the SJW. These are their bubbles.

"Now as to economic issues, anyone who thinks the economy or the environment would suffer from laissez faire, libertarian neo-liberalism is willfully foolish, a fanatical Right/Wing ideologue or has a poor grasp of history.

Pretty much every economic improvement from the 40 hour work week, overtime safe work conditions , clean air and water ... better wages, etc were a direct product of government regulation. Sometimes regulation is necessary and in the end you can't stint on the actual costs of civilization."

See, this is the stuff that irks me (I am irked). You say "anyone who thinks the economy...would suffer from laissez faire... is willfully foolish." But I think you're saying the opposite of what you intend: You mean "anyone who thinks the economy... would suffer from laissez fair... is exactly right." Obviously, libertarians disagree with you. But then to accuse a libertarian of "Right/Wing" ideology and then accuse THEM of a poor grasp of history is, well, to remain civil, the reason why people are always accusing you of being confused, etc.

There are many brilliant books about the bounties of the free market, written by Nobel Prize winning economists even, if you like. I highly encourage any writing by Murray Rothbard, Milton Friedman, F.A. Hayek, or Ronald Coase (the latter 3 with prizes in hand). There are endless books, papers, audiobooks, films, interviews at mises.org for free.

You cite a list of the benefits of big government, right out of the SJW playbook. Refuting them is easy and often-done, and I'm not going to address each item now.

"We've been doing this, trying to avoid paying for thinsg since the founding of the country (c.f slavery) but TANSTAAFL and the costs have come do."

This appears to be gibberish. Apparently it's time to pay for slavery, or something.

Blogger Groot July 14, 2015 12:19 AM  

@A.D. Prosper, 2nd Part:

"Certainly mass immigration, the dysgenic welfare class, ..., the cost of the MIC and feminism, marriage 2.0 among other stressors make the people who keep things running be able to or even want to pay the bloated costs less and less and that is IMO what will lead to the implosion of the system."

Again, gibberish, but you seem to have completely flipped into A.B Jeckyl, and now hate SJWs and all they stand for.

"And in case anyone asks, its going to be an amazing uphill battle to fix things after if it can be done. ,"

Because not enough welfare and government spending and too many dark feminists lead to exploding costs and an imploding system? Somebody help me out here. Is it me?

I'm going to skip the next couple of paragraphs, because gibberish, and I want to.

"Personal insults or gamma style snark however is unworthy of anyone here."

OK, that made me laugh. Congratulations on being the first to ever accuse me of "gamma style" anything. In real life, I am Groot-like, and rarely get shit from anybody. I guess that's one disadvantage of internet anonymity. Looming over people is hard to do in text.

I wasn't really trying to insult you. I've actually rounded up reactions to your previous posts and re-posted them. I was trying to warn 55. VFM bot #188.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 14, 2015 7:40 PM  

Groot, I don't like Cultural Marxism, hate most of it, am tepid on a few points but I actually don't have an issue whatsoever with economic nationalism or some redistribution/state control/etc as needed.

Technology among other things sometimes make it necessary.

Let me post the Hipcrime Vocabulary's article for an explanation

http://hipcrime.blogspot.com/2015/07/modern-work-patterns-make-no-sense.html

That’s a huge amount of the population that is just not in the job market anymore. That is actually forced out of the job market by law – it’s illegal to hire anyone below sixteen with a few exceptions. That is, we artificially keep children out of the job market. That a huge portion of the population – actually the majority of the population in some countries (less so in the West – which is not coincidental). Again, we just think of this as the normal state of affairs, but as the above points out, it is anything but. In fact, like selling our time instead of anything useful, it is the aberration for most of human existence. We just take modern working patterns for granted thanks to Shifting Baseline Syndrome. In the movie of human existence, the industrial model would be the last few frames, yet we tend to assume it was the entire movie.

Now HC is an economic lefty but this is more or less his point and mine

Simply modern society can't survive if too few people work or wages are arbitraged down too much or unaccountable corporations/bureaucracies have too much power and money.

Modern society is too complex and expensive, It must be paid for and we as a society seem to not want to do that and instead spend limited resources on stupid Cultural Marxist projects or end up concentrating it in too few hands.

In the current situation adding Cultural Marxism to that is like pouring accelerant on a fire but it it doesn't start the fire, others things do.

However any proposed fixes won't work without a highly homogeneous, moral population.

Because we don't have that kind of population and because the infrastructure is so complex, if there is a collapse, recovery may prove to be too difficult. To paraphrase Ann Coulter "The natural state on mankind is not America but Darfur." and this applies to Euro-Folk as well though for us, some degree of civilization is the norm, wattle and daub huts maybe ;) We aren't by nature civilized to the high degree we are now

Also note for many people, life under the Cathedral isn't generally that bad or at least wasn't till recently and for many, its going to better than the "root hog or die" existence under NrX . They are better off supporting it.

In order to even get critical mass to change things, not a majority, just enough to "get er done" either there must be a collapse or people must come to feel the alternative is better, I'm not getting that vibe and even NrX is tepid on the why we are better issue sometimes.

It does seem of late though the Cathedral and its SJW allies are doing our work for us and as the saying goes

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake

However I'll give you one point here, I need to edit better. What looks good in my head and when I parse it seems fine. It isn't. My points get muddy and it comes on like gibberish. Thanks for pointing this out. I will work on this.

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