ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Saturday, July 18, 2015

Hey, you asked for it

Having kept the Scots in Great Britain thanks to the votes of non-Scottish people resident in Scotland - the majority of actual Scots voted for independence - the English are now upset that the Scottish National Party is daring to interfere in English affairs.
 The barefaced perfidy of the SNP’s decision to rat on their pledge not to vote against legislative measures that did not affect their constituents has been breathtaking. But, then, for all who know this lot, were any of us really surprised? This is, after all, a cult-like movement that knows no principle that it won’t abandon and no promise it won’t ditch in pursuit of its one and only goal – the break-up of the United Kingdom.

You will remember that Nicola Sturgeon pledged - no doubt hand on heart - on the metaphorical stack of Bibles that her Fearless Fifty Six MPs would interfere in laws that affected only England if that legislation materially affected the lives of their constituents and, specifically, if it caused a reduction in the Barnett formula cash that flows north from the Treasury.

However, at the first time of asking and with Labour stupidly – is there any end to this party’s suicidal tendency – offering them an open goal, the Nats put partisan advantage ahead of any semblance of sticking to their promises. In ordering her pathetically obedient troops to vote against a measure that would bring fox hunting legislation in England and Wales into line with that in Scotland Ms Sturgeon has shown that you can trust her word as much as you could her predecessor’s.
Who could have seen that coming? The SNP's strategy is obvious. Make the life of the English Parliamentarians a living hell until they openly support Scottish independence. The English forced them to stick around when they wanted to leave, so making sure that the Union is as unpopular with the English as it is with the Scottish is the logical thing to do.

Labels:

62 Comments:

Anonymous p-dawg July 18, 2015 10:19 AM  

"Hey, no fair betraying me when I'm over here working as hard as I can to betray you!"

Blogger njartist July 18, 2015 10:21 AM  

Have the English made the same promises in regards to issues only relevant to Scotland?

That was a rhetorical question.

Anonymous Erik July 18, 2015 10:22 AM  

> retreat from principle, barefaced perfidy, rat on pledge, barefaced perfidy (again, bad style there, needs better editor), rat on, breathtaking, cult-like movement, no principle that it won’t abandon and no promise it won’t ditch, suicidal tendency, partisan advantage, any semblance of sticking to their promises, pathetically obedient troops, no matter how hollow, fell over themselves, out the window at a rate of knots went all of Sturgeon’s promises, retreat from principle, gross imterference

Tell us how you really feel, Telegraph. I'm not sure you have been maximally clear in communicating your emotions.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 18, 2015 10:28 AM  

Why is no one talking about Wales? I mean, luckily they seem to stay where they are but we should fence off Wales, as well as Scotland. Then break up all of Italy too so I can go back to my natural City state environment.

Blogger borderwalker July 18, 2015 10:31 AM  

I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.

Blogger kh123 July 18, 2015 10:36 AM  

"...Why, those coal black eyes aren't shimmering with hate, lad. That's merely a knight's eagerness to rush in and comply with whatever orders given. This isn't a fly-by-night operation after all."

Anonymous Roundtine July 18, 2015 10:38 AM  

The Conservative back benchers who are pro-England should push these issues as much as possible. Labour will gladly hang themselves with all the rope you give them, voting with SNP to give Cameron a black eye. End result will be Scottish Independence and Labour annihilation.

Anonymous Roundtine July 18, 2015 10:39 AM  

Why is no one talking about Wales? I mean, luckily they seem to stay where they are but we should fence off Wales

As I understand it (a faded memory of a history show), the Romans dug a 6-ft trench to keep the Welsh out and it's still there to this day.

Anonymous Jeigh Di July 18, 2015 10:45 AM  

We need to try that over here.

Anonymous Clint #47/#73 July 18, 2015 10:48 AM  

Love the comments over there on the link. Good British insults:

"You have disparaged me..."

Blogger bearspaw July 18, 2015 10:58 AM  

Run with the fox and hunt with the hounds.

Blogger Ragin' Dave July 18, 2015 10:59 AM  

They wanted to keep Scotland, they got to keep Scotland. Now they're shocked that Scotland is full of Scots.

Fucking maroons.

Anonymous carpeoro #105 July 18, 2015 11:22 AM  

How dare the Scots not keep in line after they were screwed by Labour? Do they not understand the meaning of bohica?

Blogger Steveo #238 July 18, 2015 11:23 AM  

Scots wha hae... do these Scots still exist? Our clan motto w/ which I agree: "I hope in God." - that they do.

Scots Wha Hae
BY ROBERT BURNS
Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led;
Welcome to your gory bed,
Or to victory!

Now's the day, and now's the hour;
See the front o' battle lour;
See approach proud Edward's power—
Chains and slavery!

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave!
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!

Wha for Scotland's king and law
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Freeman stand, or freeman fa',
Let him follow me!

By oppression's woes and pains!
By your sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty's in every blow!—
Let us do or die!

Blogger Cinco July 18, 2015 11:35 AM  

The decline of western civilization and how came to love some forms of trolling.

Anonymous Alexander July 18, 2015 11:36 AM  

A few points in defense of the English (people).

1. Nobody asked the English if they wanted to kick the Scottish out. The English did not vote to keep Scotland in the UK.

2. Scotland went about deciding who got to vote in the plebiscite. They chose poorly.

3. Scotland has gone out of its way to bring in non-Scots. It is cheaper for an EU continental student to go to University in Scotland than it is for an English student to go to Uni in Scotland.

So frankly, it's the English who didn't get a say, Scotland who determined who would vote and - by its own policies determined by the Scottish parliament - has created the current demographics of the 'no' vote (which from the foreign perspective is more likely a no against the risk of losing the EU than leaving the UK).

No sympathy for Parliament though - the conservatives MPs with Cameron at the helm went about begging Scotland to stay, so I too shall join in the delight of watching them suffer in that particular misery. But the English themselves have every right to be upset that everyone else gets at the very least devolution and they get stuck with law-by-committee.

On the other hand, maybe if things get bad enough England can vote to secede from the UK. T'would be glorious.

Anonymous BGS July 18, 2015 11:45 AM  

Wouldn't this fox hunting legislation remove whatever sporting advantage one side had? Kind of like having a bar on the border of areas that can't serve booze? If Scotts can more freely hunt foxes this is simply rent seeking in their interest.

Anonymous BGS July 18, 2015 11:48 AM  

"If you where a rent seeking caged fox hunting reserve my love." the hugo award winning story of hunting foxes in fenced in property.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster July 18, 2015 11:50 AM  

"The English forced them to stick around when they wanted to leave"

'The English' were never asked their opinion, and most English people I know wish the Scots would just stop whining and go. It was the politicians who wanted to keep Scotland in Britain, and went to extreme lengths to ensure they voted to stay.

If there'd been a referendum in England to kick Scotland out, I suspect the Scots would have 'won'. Without Scotland, Britain wouldn't have been saddled with thirteen years of English-hating Labour party Scots who destroyed their economy.

Blogger Thucydides July 18, 2015 11:57 AM  

The SNP shares a lot of similarities to the Parti Quebecois (and the allied Bloc Quebecois that used to sit in the Federal Parliament). The short answer is all three parties are "National Socialist" parties (i.e. they believe in using the power of the State to transfer wealth to certain groupings based on ethnic origin).

Like the Scots, the PQ and BQ screwed themselves with immigration policies, betting that settling people from Haiti and former French colonies like Algeria would help drive out Anglophone Canadians, or at least dilute the vote. What they didn't count on is these people only spoke French, but did not share may of the particular values of the "native" Quebecois. Indeed, a quick moment of thought would have told them that French speaking Algerian Muslims would have almost nothing in common with the local population, and the Creole speaking Haitians even less.

But National Socialists are nothing if not persistent, and they also share a lot of DNA with Progressives and SJW's, so you can expect them to lie, project and continually change the goalposts whenever and where ever you encounter them.

Killing them with cleansing fire is too good a fate.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 18, 2015 12:05 PM  

Anglo politics are fucking hilarious.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 18, 2015 12:08 PM  

I haven't been there for a long time. Is there a stronger sense of an English identity these days?

As opposed to the British one. I mean.

Blogger bob k. mando July 18, 2015 12:08 PM  

also hilarious that this article was written by the Scots Scottish Editor ...


say, Cochranes aren't related to the bloody bastard Campbells, are they? if they aren't Alan may want to change clans. the Campbells have always been known as a tool of the Crown.

Anonymous Alexander July 18, 2015 12:10 PM  

Hilarious... Up until the moment the Saxon begins to hate.

Blogger Josh July 18, 2015 12:10 PM  

Would a Southron Party work in American politics, or does this only work in a parliamentary system?

Blogger bob k. mando July 18, 2015 12:12 PM  

20. Thucydides July 18, 2015 11:57 AM
But National Socialists are nothing if not persistent, and they also share a lot of DNA with Progressives and SJW's, so you can expect them to lie, project and continually change the goalposts whenever and where ever you encounter them.



well, DUH.

i mean, they're Socialists. what did you expect?

Blogger bob k. mando July 18, 2015 12:15 PM  

25. Josh July 18, 2015 12:10 PM
Would a Southron Party work in American politics, or does this only work in a parliamentary system?



it would face the same difficulty as all third parties currently in existence.

it is possible that it could succeed, though. the Repubs started as the northern states anti-slave party.

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 12:26 PM  

If you like your Scotland, you can keep your Scotland.

Anonymous Anonymous July 18, 2015 12:34 PM  

Now, if we Scots here in the South, can think of a way to get the "English"/Yanks/Progressives/Multi-cultis, to kick us out of their Union (and get the heck out of our territory!), then we'd be a whole lost better off!

"Alba go breagh," "Deo Vindice," and all that!

Regards,
David Smith

Anonymous Anonymous July 18, 2015 12:35 PM  

OOPS! "lot" not "lost!"

Regards,
David Smith

Blogger Josh July 18, 2015 12:37 PM  

"Alba go breagh," "Deo Vindice," and all that!


Preach

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 18, 2015 12:44 PM  

Would a Southron Party work in American politics, or does this only work in a parliamentary system?

We used to have one. the "Dixiecrats" were their own party closely allied to the rest of the Democrats. It was a tumultuous marriage at the the best of times. And one that ended in the 1948 walkout of the Democratic convention.

They did briefly form the States Rights Party for one year. It was dissolved after Truman won without them. Effectively breaking the power the Dixiecrats.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 18, 2015 12:51 PM  

I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.

Ta-da boom!

Good
one.

Anonymous Clint #47/#73 July 18, 2015 12:54 PM  

Would a Southron Party work in American politics, or does this only work in a parliamentary system?

As I remember, there was an attempt a decade or so ago. It was called "The Southern Party" or something similar. It began with a whimper and ended without that much force. It was the victim of some of the characteristics that are common in the South: different views of race; propensity to get worked up, even over minor issues, etc.

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P July 18, 2015 1:17 PM  

Sorry Vox, but as 16. Alexander has said, then English had absolutely nothing to do with this - we were not given a say in the matter, the Scots decided who would vote and I seriously suspect that they knew they wouldnt win anyway due to the number of British (not English) residents who appear to care about "The Union", but not local Scottish politics.

Frankly, if the English and Welsh were given a say (as a matter pertaining to the whole Union), it would laso have included Scots living south of the wall - and they would have got independence. The vast majority of the English are utterly sick of the Scots interference and whining.

Cameron should have given them financial independence and then watch it go greek, but he's a fool. Instead we're lumbered with a large block of Scots Nazis in parliament who are going to interfere in absolutely everything, regardless. A political example of 4GW perhaps?

Blogger Doom July 18, 2015 1:36 PM  

God bless the filthy communist curs. If they succeed, and I pray they do, may their people tend to their quick burial after a quick celebration, trial, and execution. Love me some slapstick.

Anonymous Pax Romana July 18, 2015 2:05 PM  

We shall make ourselves so repugnant in your eyes that you will beg us to leave.

Scotland won her freedom from the Romans at the point of the spear, from the English at the point of a sword, and now, again from the English, at the nub of a pen.

Albion gu brath.

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 2:51 PM  

Scotland went about deciding who got to vote in the plebiscite.

Sounds like a valid point if true.

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 3:10 PM  

This is not to say that I would blame the Scots for excercising the representative democracy to the fullest that the UK laws offer them. The only proper recourse for the union is to kick them out of it. If they are not willing to do that, then there's no use bitching.

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 3:21 PM  

Now, obviously they are going to pump every penny from the English that they can while they're at it, because not only do they not need to maintain goodwill, they actually want to GENERATE ill will in order to get closer to their objective. And what better way to do that than to leech as much money as they can.

Anonymous Ain July 18, 2015 4:54 PM  

Tommy Hass: "Anglo politics are fucking hilarious."

Now, just because they're fighting over proper fox hunting legislation it doesn't make it hilarious. Ok, maybe it does a little..

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 4:58 PM  

They're trying to take fox hunting away? Haha, no true Scotsman is queasy about hitting below the belt.

Blogger Markku July 18, 2015 5:10 PM  

By the way, what I just said is not a No True Scotsman fallacy. If you don't immediately realize why, then you need to read the specifics of the fallacy again.

It gets on me tits when people erroneously apply No True Scotsman.

Blogger bob k. mando July 18, 2015 5:28 PM  

43. Markku July 18, 2015 5:10 PM
It gets on me tits when people erroneously apply No True Scotsman.



Markku has tits?

dude. too much information.

see, this is what happens when you let in the homos like Milo and Steve. all a sudden you've trannies running around everywhere.

Anonymous A Reader July 18, 2015 5:39 PM  

I'm trying to figure why Cameron and Conservative Party leaders: (1) want to keep the union between England and Scotland and (2) want to stay in the EU.

If Scotland leaves, they would take all their left wing members of Parliament with them, which would greatly increase the vote share and power of the Conservatives in Parliament.

Concerning the EU, if Cameron supported leaving it, I estimate that at least 1 million voters who voted for UKIP will go back voting Conservative.

The only thing that I can come up with, explaining why Cameron and the Conservative leadership do not want to do things that would increase their political power, is that they are beholden to cooperate interests. Sort of like what going on now in the Republican primaries. Trump is getting a lot of traction due to his views on immigration. Why don't the other candidates take a clear stance on the problems of immigration? Because they are trying to get campaign contributions from big business that benefit from cheap labor. Now, Trump, who has his own money, doesn't have to grovel to big business.

Blogger Floyd Looney July 18, 2015 8:54 PM  

Maybe England, like Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should also have its own Parliament.

Blogger bob k. mando July 18, 2015 9:15 PM  

45. A Reader July 18, 2015 5:39 PM
I'm trying to figure why Cameron and Conservative Party leaders: (1) want to keep the union between England and Scotland and (2) want to stay in the EU.

If Scotland leaves, they would take all their left wing members of Parliament with them, which would greatly increase the vote share and power of the Conservatives in Parliament.



yes, it is confusing.

UNLESS ...
you consider Cameron as 'controlled opposition'.

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 19, 2015 12:41 AM  

#8--Roundtine: "As I understand it (a faded memory of a history show), the Romans dug a 6-ft trench to keep the Welsh out and it's still there to this day."
Are you referring to Offa's Dyke? Offa was the 9th century Mercian (Anglo-Saxon) king to whom the building of the wall is attributed. If it isn't actually of Roman beginnings, then it is proof that the animosity between the Welsh and the English dates back a very long time.

Blogger Markku July 19, 2015 12:50 AM  

Markku has tits?

If I did, it would get on them.

Anonymous Fnord P July 19, 2015 3:43 AM  

...these people only spoke French...

There is a political arrogance associated with the French language. They believe speaking French takes precedence over everything else (origins, race, social class) and unites them. There is a study to be made in how the French language works as a social control mechanism (I wish I had the time).

I thought this was just continental France, where a French speaking pacific Islander or newly arrived sub saharan African are more part of the culture than a wicked anglophone, anglo-saxon like me (despite two decades of residence) but I heard Gavin McInnes and Steven Crowder discussing Canada and the Quebecois and the same things happens there - language is everything AND language is centralised and controlled.

French language is a real world example of newspeak (imposed through force [look how many regional languages were wiped out in France], new words chosen by a committee [seriously;l'academie francaise], limited vocabulary but over complicated grammar) and it goes hand in hand with socialism.

They hate English as it can used for open communication between equals without the need for decades of learning obscure grammar (the french see it as a matter of pride that their language is complicated - they assume you must therefore be intelligent to speak it - lol) and the monolithic accent without which no french speaker ever feels obligated to understand you.

I met a university professor of English who was an unashamed, unreconstructed marxists who saw it as his job to keep the evil capitalist anglo-saxons and their language out of France. I don't think he was an exception. To become an English teacher in France requires very good knowledge of french literature and a high level of written French. Expat, native English speakers can rarely achieve the standard (see Sorbonne Confidential by Laurel Zuckerman about an American who tried).

Blogger sconzey July 19, 2015 6:04 AM  

Nah, this isn't a master-stroke by the SNP but a colossal miss-step. The proposed amendments to the rules on fox hunting with dogs would only bring the law in line with Scots law.

The result won't be Scotland leaving the Union (as previous commenters have said, if England had a say too, Scotland would be independent now, its kind of a running joke here in the UK)

The result will be support for Cameron's reform bill, restricting the rights of regional MPs to vote on devolved matters. The SNP are throwing away their say on English laws on a petty class issue.

I struggle to believe they're that stupid; Salmond and Sturgeon have been pretty savvy politicians in the past.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 8:44 AM  

> Sounds like a valid point if true.

I expect the EU largely determines all such matters now, but I don't know the facts of the matter.

Blogger James Dixon July 19, 2015 8:46 AM  

> Would a Southron Party work in American politics,

Not unless they succeeded in taking over one of the major parties. It would probably be easier for the state republican parties to disassociate from the national party and form a new one, not controlled by the current power structure.

Anonymous Oliver Cromwell July 19, 2015 2:08 PM  

It's all a bit messier than that. A few points in no particular order.

1. Many of those "real Scots" are actually Irish immigrants and their descendants, whose quarrel with the British state has nothing to do with Scotland. The most pro-independence areas were all the most Catholic areas.

2. Many more "real Scots" live in England or elsewhere in the EU/the world. They also weren't able to vote, and it seems likely they would have voted against independence to a greater extent than those resident in Scotland.

3. Related to 2., living outside of Scotland is much more appealing to Scots than living in Scotland is to non-Scots, so it's probable that the voting rules favoured independence.

4. In fact almost everything about the voting rules favoured the pro-independence movement, from the question itself to the inclusion of 16 an 17 year olds in the electorate, which is unprecedented in Britain. The likely reason for this is that the government expected independence to be voted down, so they wanted no possibility for the SNP to complain.

5. English popular opinion has little or nothing to do with the government's stance on this issue. The man on the street in England would be happy to see the Scots go. Ultimately the right elite will always support the Union because they want to rule over the largest and most powerful possible territory and the left elite will always support the Union because Scotland has become a prole vote bank.

6. I'm a little surprised to see this blog supporting Scottish independence. Scottish independence is an SJW plastic anti-colonialist movement, basically an attempt by Scotland to spiritually quit the wreck of the capitalist white male hegemonic British Empire and defect to the winning side. People comparing Scotland to the Confederacy don't have a clue; more like Massachusetts Social Republic.

Anonymous Senghendrake July 19, 2015 5:21 PM  

"Scottish independence is an SJW plastic anti-colonialist movement, "

Pretty much. Consider that the most socially -and linguistically- conservative area of Scotland (the Highlands and Islands) voted against independence.

The independence movement in Scotland is largely an urban, socialist, hipster movement which has little to do with wanting to preserve Scottish identity and everything to do with wanting to be free to create a more left-wing country free of conservative English voters.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 20, 2015 8:12 AM  

The independence movement in Scotland is largely an urban, socialist, hipster movement which has little to do with wanting to preserve Scottish identity and everything to do with wanting to be free to create a more left-wing country free of conservative English voters.

So? That's an argument against Scotland going its own way? Sounds like the opposite.

Blogger sconzey July 20, 2015 9:34 AM  

So? That's an argument against Scotland going its own way? Sounds like the opposite.

No, but it is an argument against Vox's view that it is the fault of English unionists that Scotland didn't leave the Union.

The problem is that, as Lee Kwan-Yew learned in Singapore is that democracy presents the elites with strong incentives to be divisive-- to emphasise the differences between people and hammer wedges between ethnicities and religions to create voting blocs.

Scottish Nationalism on the scale we currently see is a new thing. At first, campaigning for divisiveness won them a regional parliament, then after years and years of state-funded greviance mongering it wins them a referendum on independence. The referendum fails but its worked out alright because it's won them nearly every seat in Westminster north of the border.

In fact the SNP was always going to be better off losing the referendum than winning it. In an independent Scotland, every party is a Scottish Nationalist party.

Blogger Pirran July 20, 2015 3:37 PM  

"Having kept the Scots in Great Britain thanks to the votes of non-Scottish people resident in Scotland - the majority of actual Scots voted for independence - the English are now upset that the Scottish National Party is daring to interfere in English affairs."

That was Salmond's decision. He wanted only people resident in Scotland to have a vote. It was also his decision not to allow Scots living in others parts of the UK (or EU) to vote in the referendum. The motive was simple; he suspected they would be loyal to the Union rather than Scotland. Cameron bent over backwards to give him everything he wanted, including allowing the voting age to be reduced to 16 and paying for the whole damn thing in the first place. To blame Salmond's miscalculation on the English is bizarre.

Blogger Pirran July 20, 2015 3:41 PM  

"I'm trying to figure why Cameron and Conservative Party leaders: (1) want to keep the union between England and Scotland and (2) want to stay in the EU.

If Scotland leaves, they would take all their left wing members of Parliament with them, which would greatly increase the vote share and power of the Conservatives in Parliament."

You're forgetting that Cameron is a proud Scot (the third in a row to screw up Westminster). His father's family were a big deal near Aberdeen.

Blogger Pirran July 20, 2015 3:52 PM  

"Scotland won her freedom from the Romans at the point of the spear"

Actually, you weren't worth the manpower. That's why the Romans settled on defensive formations further south. Scotland didn't have the economic resources of, say, North Wales with it's silver and gold or the fertile land of England. The Cornish were happy to trade tin and copper, hence the reason there was no need to occupy further west than Exeter. The Romans were nothing if not pragmatists.

"Albion gu brath" - if you were being mischievous, you might translate that as Great Britain Forever.

Blogger Pirran July 20, 2015 3:59 PM  

"Have the English made the same promises in regards to issues only relevant to Scotland?

That was a rhetorical question."

What, precisely, do the English get to decide in Scotland??

Blogger Pirran July 20, 2015 4:03 PM  

"Have the English made the same promises in regards to issues only relevant to Scotland?

That was a rhetorical question."

Actually, that might be the point you were trying to make (if you're from the UK), but not if you're from the US

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts