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Sunday, July 05, 2015

The Eurofascists lost

Live updates here:
BREAKING: Greek interior ministry projection says 'no' camp will get more than 61 percent of vote.
17 25 31 40 50 percent reported, 61 percent NO, 39 percent YES. Now, the bankers will double-down, threaten, and promise economic apocalypse if they aren't bailed-out. Or bailed-in. They always do. But the people are finally beginning to realize that the bankers are serving only themselves.

But how is that possible? After all, we were told that the Greeks are desperate to stay in the EU and in the Euro. June 28: In a poll conducted by Alco for the Greek newspaper ‘Proto Thema’, 57% of the participants said they would vote yes in the upcoming referendum, favoring a deal.

What an amazing 18-point turnaround in only one week! Or, you know, perhaps the media is not to be trusted.

UPDATE: Heh. Glenn Reynolds is the master of pith:
TIME.com @TIME
'No' campaign likely to win tight referendum vote in Greece

Instapundit.com ‏@instapundit
Not that tight.

Labels: , ,

169 Comments:

Anonymous Soga July 05, 2015 2:09 PM  

Well, I'm mystified at how honestly they are counting the votes.

I guess when your government hates their pseudodemocratic rulers, the polls run a little more honestly.

Anonymous Rolf July 05, 2015 2:12 PM  

Hang a bevy of big bankers. Let a number of the politicians and lawyers and government employees that lead the nation into such a horrible place by lying about everything to the people follow them to the gibbet. Write off most of the debt. Reduce pensions to a sustainable level. Require a balanced budget going forward, balanced by real cuts in actual spending, Eliminate the dole. Sink boats full of illegal immigrant "refugees" headed for your shores. Hang a few more bankers, lawyers, and politicians, compost the bodies in the olive groves. Get people back to work, even if it's menial work.

That is the moderate solution.

The hard-core version does nothing more than let the natural consequences of poor choices come to pass in the slightly longer term, where the pols, lawyers, and bankers continue to live fat and happy, and a great many more of the common people die slowly.

Anonymous WillBest July 05, 2015 2:14 PM  

2.5% is a landslide and a blank check for reform when it is their guy. 15% is a close win where the winner best be cognizant of the substantial minority vote when its not their guy

Blogger Cinco July 05, 2015 2:18 PM  

The count is incomplete; but, it looks like I got this one wrong. I really thought the referendum was a way to manipulate the vote and shift the blame from the lords to the serfs. Maybe there is hope for the world yet. Iceland 2.0 awaits.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell July 05, 2015 2:23 PM  

Greece needs to be able to fight deflation. With the Euro they cannot.

Blogger Cinco July 05, 2015 2:26 PM  

@Derrick Bonsell

Yeah we wouldn't want food prices to fall too much, they could all get fat.

Blogger IM2L844 July 05, 2015 2:26 PM  

The beginnings of Euro Spring cascade?

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 2:27 PM  

In other news Trump is exploiting the killing of a woman in Scum Sanctuary City by an illegal immigrant, but the media is all out to paint him as an intolerant asshole who supports throwing acid in women's faces.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 2:35 PM  

Now this would be a turn up for the books. AEP has heard rumours that Yannis Stournaras, the current Bank of Greece governor and former finance minister, is set to head up a technocratic government if Mr Tsipras resigns tonight.

Like Romney 2012.

Anonymous Steve Brown VFM#0273 July 05, 2015 2:38 PM  

Well, I think this would be good for Greece. They are tired of austerity, it's not working. So they want to try it themselves, good. But...

We live in interesting times.

Blogger David-093 July 05, 2015 2:38 PM  

Trump is tapping into the discontent of Americans. He knows the populace better than any candidate currently in the field. Which doesn't mean he's the one to necessarily vote for, but it's a start.

Back on topic: what's the EU going to do after this? I doubt they'll be able to do to them what they did to the Irish and make them vote until they get it right.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 2:48 PM  

Trump is tapping into the discontent of Americans. He knows the populace better than any candidate currently in the field. Which doesn't mean he's the one to necessarily vote for, but it's a start.

Trump will drop out by the end of October.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 2:48 PM  

Trump is tapping into the discontent of Americans. He knows the populace better than any candidate currently in the field. Which doesn't mean he's the one to necessarily vote for, but it's a start.

The similarity between the two events is that the media is stonewalling on what the majority of the people want and releasing false polls, in my view, showing worthless Jeb having higher Poll numbers than are likely.

Anonymous John Regan July 05, 2015 3:03 PM  

Of course this is a great opportunity for the Greek government to restore a sound currency, but unfortunately I have no reason to believe THAT's going to occur.

Anonymous Red Comet July 05, 2015 3:05 PM  

The Republican nominee no longer matters. The Democrats have enough non-whites and feminist women to hold the Presidency from now until various minority groups form their own parties and the US inevitably cracks up.

The media wants Jeb Bush so he can be the Daily Show's court jester for a few months.

The best thing any 'Pub paying attention could do is black knight the situation by nominating a black candidate. Would be funny to see which words the media deemed suddenly not racist anymore.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 3:05 PM  

The No vote seems to be strengthening slightly, not fading as more votes are counted.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 05, 2015 3:08 PM  

What difference does it make if Greece is in the EU or not? I mean to the sovereignity of the country. It's not like the EU goons have a Red Army which can roll into Athens and impose it's will. Greece can just tell them to pound sand.

OR CAN THEY

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 3:10 PM  

I cannot rule out John McCain inserting himself into the events in Greece. I just can't.

Anonymous Jourdan July 05, 2015 3:14 PM  

The best outcome for the nationalist right is for the EU powers to replicate the overthrow of the democratic government they did in Italy, except this time it will be not a left-wing hate object but a left-wing party with just demonstrated democratic backing.

Short term, the banksters would win, but long term such a move would significantly reduce their legitimacy to rule in the eyes of a not insignificant number of non-political people.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 3:14 PM  

Greece can just tell them to pound sand.

Where is that NATO quick reaction force? Will the EU's tanks roll into Greece?

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 3:17 PM  

Can someone explain all of the cheering I see on this site for deadbeats who refuse to pay back their debts? I thought the people here were in favor of honor and keeping your word.

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 3:23 PM  

Can someone explain all of the cheering I see on this site for deadbeats who refuse to pay back their debts? I thought the people here were in favor of honor and keeping your word.

From http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/07/why-greece-should-vote-no.html

But what’s even worse, is the subterfuge that preceded the meetings; that’s what cast doubt on the character of the people running EU negotiations. Here’s the scoop: About 15 minutes before the confab began, Varoufakis was given a draft communique outlining the provisions of the proposed loan extension. He was pleasantly surprised to find that the document met all his requirements and, so, he was prepared to sign it. Unfortunately, the document was switched shortly before the negotiations began with one that backtracked on all the crucial points.

I’m not making this up. The freaking Eurogroup tried to pull the old switcheroo on Varoufakis to get him to sign something that was different than the original.


In this present battle between poor deadbeats and rich lying scumbags, I am firmly on the side of the poor deadbeats.

Anonymous Doc Rampage is an idiot July 05, 2015 3:23 PM  

Doc Rampage,
Why don't you send all your money to the US Treasury then. It's your debt after all.

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 3:27 PM  

Can someone explain all of the cheering I see on this site for deadbeats who refuse to pay back their debts? I thought the people here were in favor of honor and keeping your word.

That's an astonishingly stupid statement. None of these people are deadbeats. None of them took out the loans or signed for the loans. That's like claiming you are a deadbeat because you haven't paid off your share of the US federal debt.

The bankers get their own people elected - or in some cases, like Italy, install them directly without an election - then have them borrow scads of money, MOST of which is used to pay the bankers for previous debts. The bankers are the very, very, very bad guys in this, and to call people deadbeats who have neither borrowed nor spent the money is blatantly dishonest.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are speaking in ignorance

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 05, 2015 3:29 PM  

I thought the people here were in favor of honor and keeping your word.

We are.

But that is supposed to be two way street.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 3:33 PM  

The best thing any 'Pub paying attention could do is black knight the situation by nominating a black candidate. Would be funny to see which words the media deemed suddenly not racist anymore.

Do you not remember Herman Cain?

Anonymous Jourdan July 05, 2015 3:34 PM  

How stupid must the Irish feel at this point?

Anonymous paradox July 05, 2015 3:34 PM  

Which is scary, that those on the right are buying Trump's snake oil, considering how antigun he is.

Blogger Michael Maier July 05, 2015 3:35 PM  

Plus, predatory lending is a very evil thing. When you give folks loans you know they'll never be able to pay back, you deserve your genitals to be cut off. With a Play-Do knife.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 3:37 PM  

The bankers get their own people elected - or in some cases, like Italy, install them directly without an election - then have them borrow scads of money, MOST of which is used to pay the bankers for previous debts. The bankers are the very, very, very bad guys in this, and to call people deadbeats who have neither borrowed nor spent the money is blatantly dishonest.

Vox, have you ever read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman?"

Anonymous RJ July 05, 2015 3:38 PM  

Heh.

The Greeks will get to vote again and again until they get it right...

Anonymous trev006 July 05, 2015 3:41 PM  

Maybe previous Greek generations have been expecting low taxes and high spending, same as everyone else in the West. But they know that Europe's government and media are trying to outright crush them, so to defy under such circumstances shows only the greatest bravery. They're in for tough times, and I salute them for facing the bullets like men- even as the media calls them children seeking something for nothing. Ironic, given how completely Europe wants to cut Greece off, so that Italy can hear the screaming.

(I'm serious, a senior EU official described their tactics that way in the FT last week.)

If Americans could take the Greek approach, most of this particular problem would be eliminated.

Anonymous Jourdan July 05, 2015 3:44 PM  

Can we please keep the comments somewhat on topic, and not on a non-serious candidate for the nomination of a non-serious party to run in a non-serious election that will make no serious difference to anyone in how USG is ruled?

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 3:46 PM  

Which is scary, that those on the right are buying Trump's snake oil, considering how antigun he is.

You mean he could be the ultimate turncoat politician?

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 3:51 PM  

Can we please keep the comments somewhat on topic, and not on a non-serious candidate for the nomination of a non-serious party to run in a non-serious election that will make no serious difference to anyone in how USG is ruled?

Mom, is that you?

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 3:51 PM  

Vox, have you ever read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman?"

No, but I know a few.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 3:57 PM  

<a href="http://www.economichitman.com</a>www.economichitman.com</a>

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 4:04 PM  

It's emotionally satisfying to see them sticking it the Troika, the EU bureaucrats and the corrupt banks. But I'm afraid this might be more like the French Revolution, where they overthrew a king, experienced the Terror and ended up with an Emperor. There is no liberty camp in Greece, no Sam Adams or Patrick Henry, and no one has read John Locke.

Rolf's comments about hanging people sometimes come to happen. Tsipras is an ultra-statist. There has been no austerity: in the midst of going broke, they've hired 70,000 more government workers. So, yay for the No vote, but is there a Mason or a Jefferson, or only Robespierre?

Anonymous Discard July 05, 2015 4:09 PM  

Groot: I don't live in Greece, so if they burn themselves, it's just another headline to me. What I care about is will this action cause an economic avalanche that will break the power of the banksters?

Anonymous NateM July 05, 2015 4:10 PM  

Der Spiegel calls Angela Merkel 'woman of the ruins' (Trummerfrau)

Now THAT'S a word i'll definitely find some use for later

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 4:11 PM  

simplytimothy: the cheering that I'm talking about predates that by quite a bit.

VD: I didn't ask the question because I was too stupid to guess at your reasoning; I asked because I didn't want to argue based on a guess.

As to your reasoning: although I don't feel particularly responsible for the US national debt, I, and my recent ancestors, have always been opposed to the social programs that have gotten us into this mess and at best lukewarm towards the military spending that has contributed. But if any Democrat claimed to not be responsible for paying back that debt, I'd call him a deadbeat. And I do recognize the practical necessity, if not the justice, of taxing us all equally to pay back the debt even though we are not all equally responsible for it.

And although I'm not familiar with Greek politics, I find it hard to believe that the large majority of them aren't supporters of the reckless spending that has gotten them into this situation. They have been wallowing in corruption and easy credit for years and now that the bill has come due, they think someone else should pay it.

I also don't know who these bankers are, but it is my understanding that "bankers" are people who lend other people's money. So they aren't just trying to recover money for themselves but for others as well. How many of you have retirement accounts managed by someone else and don't know what you are invested in? How would you like to find out tomorrow that you have several thousand dollars in Greek bonds? Might that change your opinion just a bit?

I'm not defending the actions of the bankers here. They have contributed to this situation by giving credit to states that were clearly never going to pay back the loans. I'd be happy to throw them all in prison. But they aren't the ones who are going to pay the biggest price for an economic collapse. None of them are going to go hungry or find themselves searching trash cans for aluminium. The middle class people who have worked for years and contributed to retirement accounts because they trust the system are the ones who are going to suffer.

Anonymous Doc Rampage is an idiot July 05, 2015 4:15 PM  

So, a 1 year old American child and a 1 year old Greek child are both responsible for debt they did not sign for or agree to?

A person, is not their government. Fuck, most people don't vote in the US. As a young American, I am in no way responsible for any debt I did not agree to too you freakin imbecile.

Blogger VFM bot #188 July 05, 2015 4:29 PM  

Trump will drop out by the end of October.

Not if he comes in win, show, or place in NH and SC. Nor do I believe he's "not a serious candidate." That's what the media wants you to believe. But it's actually irrelevant: Voting for Trump is like jamming your thumb into the eye of the ruling class.

That may be enough, given that the Democrat will win handily anyway.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein July 05, 2015 4:29 PM  

@#3 WillBest

...2.5% is a landslide and a blank check for reform when it is their guy. 15% is a close win where the winner best be cognizant of the substantial minority vote when its not their guy

Exactly.

A 2% victory margin with half of eligible voters not even voting is a MANDATE, DAMMIT!!

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 4:31 PM  

Not if he comes in win, show, or place in NH and SC.

Those elections occur after October.

Blogger David-093 July 05, 2015 4:39 PM  

@Josh

"Trump will drop out by the end of October."

Probably. But his relentless attack on illegal immigration is stoking the fires for an anti-immigration candidate though. That alone means he should stay in the race as long as possible. Cruz is in the same league as Trump on this; he knows what the populace wants, even if he probably doesn't believe it himself.

"Which is scary, that those on the right are buying Trump's snake oil, considering how antigun he is."

He's been strongly pro-gun lately, which is pretty typical for a person running as a Republican. He's not going to last, but I hope he stays fixated on immigration for the time being. His refusal to apologize over it is waking some people up, which is valuable on its own.

"How stupid must the Irish feel at this point?"

Funny how the gay vote in Ireland doesn't demand a recount but a referrendum on the Lisbon treaty demands a second try. Fucking statists, they can't be hung from lampposts soon enough for me.

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 4:39 PM  

"So, a 1 year old American child and a 1 year old Greek child are both responsible for debt they did not sign for or agree to?"

You need to take a course in reading comprehension.

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 4:39 PM  

You're like a North Korean child born into the prison system, an unconvicted prisoner for life.

It's the central banks (the Fed here and ECB there), not regular Saving & Loans, which have the ability to print money. And boy howdy, they have: Trillions, and lent it governments at zero interest. Big businesses, too, have borrowed cheaply, bought back stock, and seen their stock prices soar. So the top 1% of the top 1% (who own most of the stock) are happy. But it's a house of cards,and very brittle, and no one knows what'll set it off, or when it'll happen. But it'll be something like this, if not this.

You, however, are a North Korean prison baby, and no, it's not fair.

Blogger ray July 05, 2015 4:40 PM  

"The Republican nominee no longer matters. The Democrats have enough non-whites and feminist women to hold the Presidency from now until various minority groups form their own parties and the US inevitably cracks up."


Sure. Done deal demographics. Did it matter when the Republican Revolution swept Congress? Nah. Didn't even make a dent in the matriarchy/identity power structure.

Did it matter when Junior Bush was in office? Nah. Same agenda, just slightly less exuberance implementing it. It WAS implemented however, heck his wife travelled the world preaching Woman Power to the nations.

There is no political opposition in America. It's just a scam rightwingers use to maintain fat and cowardly lives. No political figure in the past forty years has even SPOKEN against New Transformed Amerika, much less acted against it. Too much moolah in the pockets and too many wealthy wives at the helm. Vast institutional inertia.

Blogger IM2L844 July 05, 2015 4:40 PM  

There would be pain either way, Doc, but sometimes it's better to just rip off the Band-Aid and get it over with.

Blogger David-093 July 05, 2015 4:44 PM  

"A 2% victory margin with half of eligible voters not even voting is a MANDATE, DAMMIT!!"

A 2% margin of error!

Blogger Salt July 05, 2015 4:48 PM  

How stupid must the Irish feel at this point?

Iceland's gotta be feeling pretty good.

Anonymous Dirtnapninja July 05, 2015 4:49 PM  

OCHI!

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 4:50 PM  

And although I'm not familiar with Greek politics, I find it hard to believe...

I also don't know who these bankers are, but it is my understanding...


So you admit to not knowing anything about what's going on in Greece, and rather than doing some reading to educate yourself, blindly lurch forward with your analysis of the situation.

That is quite brave.

Blogger Corvinus July 05, 2015 4:51 PM  

@Jourdan

The Irish were never given a vote on bailout terms, unlike Iceland and Greece.

They did vote out the Cowen government who started the mess with the banksters, but then the Kenny government came in and continued bailing out the banksters.

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 4:55 PM  

@Doc Rampage

I am responsible for this how?

http://blog.eagleforum.org/2013/10/federal-debt-chart.html

Since 1980 I have been told that the debt would decrease. They lied.

Who will end up holding the bag? Not me! I don't have the money. No, I will not work in servitude to pay off somebody else's terrible decisions. No, I do not feel obligated to do so.

let. it. burn.


Anonymous Whodat July 05, 2015 4:57 PM  

Ha! What's he going to do? Worst case he's just like all the other politicians who are in office.
Personally I like his lies the best

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 5:02 PM  

@ Doc Rampage

I'm not defending the actions of the bankers here. They have contributed to this situation by giving credit to states that were clearly never going to pay back the loans. I'd be happy to throw them all in prison. But they aren't the ones who are going to pay the biggest price for an economic collapse. None of them are going to go hungry or find themselves searching trash cans for aluminium. The middle class people who have worked for years and contributed to retirement accounts because they trust the system are the ones who are going to suffer.

The Greeks are suffering now. Have been for years.
Be that as it may, Iceland actually did throw some bankers in prison, and defaulted. They went through hard times 2008-2011, bu then:

By mid-2012 Iceland was regarded as one of Europe's recovery success stories. It has had two years of economic growth. Unemployment was down to 6.3% and Iceland was attracting immigrants to fill jobs. Currency devaluation effectively reduced wages by 50% making exports more competitive and imports more expensive. Ten-year government bonds were issued below 6%, lower than some of the PIIGS nations in the EU (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain)

It is not about morality, but necessity, and it was all done legally.

But on the morality side. Is it moral for governments to sell their citizens into debt-slavery?

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 5:08 PM  

I can only imagine that the Vampire Squids were prepared for this. Someone is gonna pay!

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 5:12 PM  

"So you admit to not knowing anything about what's going on in Greece, and rather than doing some reading to educate yourself, blindly lurch forward with your analysis of the situation."

Yeah. Unlike most commenters on the internet, I feel a responsibility not to state things as fact when they are only suppositions and not to pretend to more expertise than I actually have. If I thought everyone commenting on here had made a serious study of the situation then I would stay out of the discussion, but there is an awful lot of what looks like reflexive hostility towards bankers without a lot of consideration of the other consequences.

Frankly, I'm not sure it would be a bad thing if international opinion changed so that no one felt responsible for paying back national loans. It would make lenders stop making national loans and remove one of the ways that the ruling class exploits everyone else. But it will cause a lot of pain getting to that point, and it isn't obvious to me that it would make things better in either the short run or the long run. And my default position is honoring your obligations, however you came about those obligations.

This idea that we only incur obligations by voluntary choice is an invention of the Enlightenment era. I'm not so sure it is an improvement over the web of natural obligations that used to bind society together.

Blogger Joshua_D July 05, 2015 5:18 PM  

Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 5:12 PM

there is an awful lot of what looks like reflexive hostility towards bankers without


Trust me, it's not "reflexive".

Doc, are you a banker, or do you have family or friends who are bankers?

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 5:21 PM  

but on the morality side. Is it moral for governments to sell their citizens into debt-slavery?

Or to reduce the value of their money? Or to lie about it ?

Blogger Student in Blue July 05, 2015 5:21 PM  

Hell, I'm currently working as a teller for a small locally-owned bank, and I don't like bankers either. To be more specific, I don't like the Fed.

It rubs me the wrong way to "sell" a drawer back to the Fed and have to "buy" it back every credit date. I'm guessing that might be due to FDIC but that still bugs me.

Blogger Salt July 05, 2015 5:23 PM  

Okay, so just WHO is going to pay the bill when it comes due?



I am Tired,
Yes, I'm tired.

For a couple years I've been blaming it on iron- poor blood, lack of vitamins, dieting and a dozen other maladies that make you wonder if life is really worth living.

But now I found out, it ain't that.

I'm tired because I'm overworked.

The population of this country is 237 million.
104 million are retired.
That leaves 133 million to do the work.

There are 85 million in school, which leave 48 million to do the work
Of this there are 29 million employed by the federal government.
This leaves 19 million to do the work.
Four million are in the Armed Forces, which leaves 15 million to do the work.
Take from the total the 14,800,000 people who work for State and City Government and that leaves 200,000 to do the work.
There are 188,000 in hospitals, so that leaves 12,000 to do the work.
Now, there are 11,998 people in prisons.
That leaves just two people to do the work.

You and me.

Bummer..

And you're sitting there reading this.

No wonder I'm tired.

And it looks like I gotta pay the bill!

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 5:29 PM  

First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with.

No, I'm not a "banker" of either type, nor is anyone in my extended family that I know of.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 5:34 PM  

First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with.

No. Banker means banker. Whatever made you think that Banker meant Jew?

Blogger Joshua_D July 05, 2015 5:35 PM  

"No". "Banker" "does" "not" "mean" "jew".

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 05, 2015 5:39 PM  

If the ultimate outcome is finally 'No', then I will pray and thank God. The banksters and their puppets in Brussels need to start lying awake at nights, and then set up a circular firing squad for the answer to "Who Lost Greece?".

Meanwhile, after years of doing the wrong thing, the Greek people may actually have learned something, and start to use their new freedom to get it right this time.

Anonymous Godfrey July 05, 2015 5:43 PM  

"Banker" is an individual involved in the fiat monetary system who prospers at the expense of the masses due to the economic manipulations of the government monopoly known as a central bank.

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 5:45 PM  

I suspect there will be a coup attempt in Greece that requires the EU to step in to restore order.

That always seems to be the go-to play in the playbook.

Blogger David-093 July 05, 2015 5:47 PM  

"First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with."

RELEASE THE WHEELER!

Blogger YIH July 05, 2015 5:48 PM  

Josh:
Do you not remember Herman Cain?
I most certainly do. IMHO, that's the role Trump is playing this time around.
Whether he exits in much the same manner remains to be seen - it's quite possible.

Anonymous Goldman Suchs July 05, 2015 5:54 PM  

does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with

Those Jewish International bankers and financiers are definitely quite hostile.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 05, 2015 5:58 PM  

First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"?

Why would you think that? I think you ought to go search your soul for what you have against Jews, that you would be the first to think of them when predatory lending is being discussed.

Blogger Nate July 05, 2015 5:58 PM  

"Okay, so just WHO is going to pay the bill when it comes due?"

The same people who paid it in Iceland.

Blogger Nate July 05, 2015 5:59 PM  

"First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with."

No banker means "asshole that has raped the whole world for the last 20 years and is now complaining that the world is fighting back."

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 6:00 PM  

I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with.

What the fuck? Do you think plumber means Pole and receptionist means Papua New Guinean? Banker means a fucking banker. Someone who is an executive at a large financial institution where they play various games with money at other people's expense.

Everything doesn't secretly mean "kill the Jews".

Anonymous MrGreenMan July 05, 2015 6:02 PM  

@Student in Blue

"Hell, I'm currently working as a teller for a small locally-owned bank, and I don't like bankers either. To be more specific, I don't like the Fed."

I think you're not alone; regional and local banks seem to know on the front lines that they've been screwed over for the last eight years in the US to shore up the four zombies. It has become an ever-increasing thing when I hear the teller or the bank manager say something bad about the Fed. One encouraged me to walk money across the street to my vendor's bank branch instead of paying via electronic transfer, because there's apparently a Fed fee for that, and they saw no point in paying the Fed. Having multiple businesses, I have multiple banks, and I've encountered the same disdain for the Fed across the board.

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 05, 2015 6:09 PM  

Wait, have those remarkable Papua New Guinna people Diamond writes about finally been recruited to call centers and office work? Do they have to accommodate their head dresses and penis gourds for the workplace?

Because he's said they are the smartest people he knows.

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 6:09 PM  

I also don't know who these bankers are, but it is my understanding that "bankers" are people who lend other people's money. So they aren't just trying to recover money for themselves but for others as well. How many of you have retirement accounts managed by someone else and don't know what you are invested in? How would you like to find out tomorrow that you have several thousand dollars in Greek bonds? Might that change your opinion just a bit?

No. Bankers are people who create credit money from nothing. Moreover, the bankers have known for years that Greece could never repay the money and yet they kept providing them with more debt in order to keep the interest payments flowing.

The predatory lenders are to blame. You completely ignored the fact that the politicians who borrow from them are THEIR representatives, they are not the representatives the people you are trying to blame.

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 6:10 PM  

In the spirit of F.U. to tyrants, the confederate flag is waving at Daytona speedway
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJLnWxpWIAESqSG.jpg

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 05, 2015 6:13 PM  

Is it just me or does anyone else hear 'Tubular Bells' playing whenever the subject of bankers come up?

Anonymous Steve July 05, 2015 6:17 PM  

"No". "Banker" "does" "not" "mean" "jew".

Apart from those sharp little guys with the big noses at Gringotts Wizarding Bank.

That's why J.K. Rowling never wears sleeveless dresses in public. It's so people don't see all the swastika and SS death's head tatoos on her biceps. She posts on Stormfront as "AryanSortingHat88".

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 05, 2015 6:20 PM  

I apologize if this turns into a duplicate:
Did those Papua New Guinea people that Diamond called the 'Smartest people he knew' move into call centers and office work? Will they have to accommodate their head dresses and penis gourds? Up till now they have been an untapped resource except for head hunting, cannibalism, and pederasty.

Blogger Student in Blue July 05, 2015 6:20 PM  

The politicians and the bankers are like criminals who mug a civilian. While there's things the civilian can do to mitigate risks, the mug-ee is not the one who is mugging, i.e., the victim is not legally responsible for the actions of the perpetrator.

Sure everyone could've been more active in keeping our politicians and bankers in line doing the right thing, but you know what? They're individuals too, and they are responsible for their own decisions. At some point there'll be someone who does the wrong thing regardless of how hard you try, and that is not the populace's fault.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 6:21 PM  

No, I'm not a "banker" of either type, nor is anyone in my extended family that I know of.

So when you say you're not a "banker," do you mean that you're not a "jew?"

Blogger Kevin Blackwell July 05, 2015 6:24 PM  

No to paying debts! No to paying for groceries! No to paying electricity bills! Hooray for democracy and dishonoring debts! We don't need no food or housing.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 6:25 PM  

No to paying debts! No to paying for groceries! No to paying electricity bills! Hooray for democracy and dishonoring debts! We don't need no food or housing.

Shut up retard

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 05, 2015 6:26 PM  

Student in Blue - The elections are so corrupt that they don't even question results like the 100% districts in Philadelphia for Obama, they simply recount the votes like the Wa State governor's office until they get the result they want, we are full of rotten Burroughs where illegal aliens skew the Presidential elections.

Elections simply don't matter unless they are so lopsided the dems cannot cheat.

Blogger Joshua_D July 05, 2015 6:28 PM  

83. Josh July 05, 2015 6:21 PM

No, I'm not a "banker" of either type, nor is anyone in my extended family that I know of.

So when you say you're not a "banker," do you mean that you're not a "jew?"


Heheheheh.

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 6:32 PM  

Is it just me or does anyone else hear 'Tubular Bells' playing whenever the subject of bankers come up?

wtf?

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 6:34 PM  

No to paying debts! No to paying for groceries! No to paying electricity bills! Hooray for democracy and dishonoring debts! We don't need no food or housing.

Debt-collection in all circumstances is anti-Biblical. I mean, you do realize that the Bible counsels defaulting on debt every 50 years, right? There is a reason that Christendom banned usury for centuries; I expect by the time this is all over, they will do so again.

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 6:36 PM  

"Hell, I'm currently working as a teller for a small locally-owned bank, and I don't like bankers either. To be more specific, I don't like the Fed."

You shouldn't. They've put more banks out of business since 2008 than any period besides the S&L Crisis and the Great Depression.

Blogger Doc Rampage July 05, 2015 6:38 PM  

I'd like to apologize to those of you who were offended by my question about whether "banker" means "Jew".

I was once involved in a long confusing conversation where it took me a long time to realize that when the other person said "International Finance" he actually meant "The Jews" (it eventually started to become clear when he got into the International Finance conspiracy to force Christians to be circumcised). I just wanted to short circuit the possibility of such a waste of time here. I'm glad to hear that my (very slight) suspicion was wrong.

Anonymous Steve July 05, 2015 6:43 PM  

Josh - my grandmother was an Ashkenazi banker, though not involved in the finance business.

I'll never forget her advice to me on my 13th birthday, when she presented me with a signed first edition copy of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, a velvet pouch stuffed with Jewgold, and a mix tape of Neil Diamond's greatest hits.

"Son," she said, "I want you to promise me that you'll become head of the European Central Bank - it'll be set up in a few years, read about it in the Protocols - then lend loads of money to those goyim bastards in Greece, and fleece the plate-smashing, lamb-munching Zorba-dancing fuckers. Make Granny Shylock proud!"

"But, gran..." said I, "I was raised Christian, as you know, since you married one. And I'm not good at maths. And your name isn't Shylock. Have you forgotten to take your pill?"

"Hush, boy" she replied. "Hello Dolly! is coming on the telly. It's got Barbara Streisand in it. I like her."

So basically it's my fault the head of the ECB is actually an Italian, and not a Jew. Sorry.

Blogger Corvinus July 05, 2015 6:45 PM  

You shouldn't. They've put more banks out of business since 2008 than any period besides the S&L Crisis and the Great Depression.

It's why I prefer the term "bankster".

A "banker" is the dude down the street who takes care of your money. A "bankster" is a billionaire robber baron scumbag.

Blogger Steveo #238 July 05, 2015 6:47 PM  

71. David-093 "First of all, I'd like to clear something up: in this conversation, does "banker" mean "Jew"? I just like to know what kind of hostility I'm dealing with."

RELEASE THE WHEELER!


That was so funny I almost coffee'd the monitor! I can hear the battle cry now. I'll say that when necessary even when no one could possibly know what I'm talking about.


Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 6:47 PM  

Abolish the Fed. Return to private, gold-backed money. Abolish fiat money and you take away the central government's ability to borrow money in your name and your children's name.

For two really good historical reads, I recommend Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism and Murray Rothbard's What Have They Done to Our Money. And, Doc Rampage, it's just a coincidence. I agree with 67. Joshua_D:

"No". "Banker" "does" "not" "mean" "jew".

Blogger YIH July 05, 2015 6:49 PM  

VD:
You shouldn't. They've put more banks out of business since 2008 than any period besides the S&L Crisis and the Great Depression.
The bank I do business with now used to be 'a small locally-owned bank'. The bursting of the housing bubble left it insolvent. FDIC took it over and did a quick sale to a large bank seeking to expand in the US.
Thanks to Greenspan and Bernanke (anyone want to play ''guess the ethnicity''?) small local banks are an endangered species.

OpenID simplytimothy July 05, 2015 6:50 PM  

Is it just me or does anyone else hear 'Tubular Bells' playing whenever the subject of bankers come up?

wtf?


ah...Theme from Exorcist .

its a song. I thought you meant you heard actual tubular bells ringing--something like the horses neighing in response to Frau Blücher's name in the move Young Frankenstein.

whew.



Anonymous George of the Jungle July 05, 2015 6:52 PM  

On second thought, I wonder if this whole referendum thing is just a scam, and that the Tsipras government will now go back to the banksters and sell out anyway.

Blogger Floyd Looney July 05, 2015 6:56 PM  

Either way Greece gets a major wake-up call. Their welfare state is not sustainable whether they get bail-outs and loans or whether they go the same way as former Rhodesia and melt the printing presses down.

I'd favor national sovereignty though

Blogger Joshua_D July 05, 2015 6:56 PM  

Of course, "banker" certainly doesn't mean "not Jew" either. There are plenty of banker Jews.

Fuck you Bernake.

Anonymous nil July 05, 2015 6:58 PM  

"No. Bankers are people who create credit money from nothing. Moreover, the bankers have known for years that Greece could never repay the money and yet they kept providing them with more debt in order to keep the interest payments flowing. "

IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?

Blogger Eraser July 05, 2015 6:58 PM  

What are the major European politicians (Merkel, EU leadership, etc.) getting out of this whole fiasco with Greece?

It's been obvious for quite a while that greece is broke and can't pay back its loans. The greek government is doing the same shit that several Latin American governments did in the 80's. Government budgets completely out of control; borrow a ton of money they can't pay back When the lenders come knocking, blame the evil IMF for all their troubles, incite the population to protest ("how dare they demand interest payments when we don't have money to pay pensions for our elderly"), and default.

Assuming that no one gets to the top of politics in a major European country by being naive, they must have seen this coming. If they kept the farce for so long nevertheless, they must be getting something out of it. The question is what? I find it hard to believe it was just to buy time or save face.

Blogger Joshua_D July 05, 2015 7:02 PM  

nil July 05, 2015 6:58 PM

IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?


The bankers literally create money from nothing, and the governments require everyone to accept this "money ex nihilo" for payment. The bankers get paid interest which they can turn into real assets, and when the Greeks can't pay anymore, then the bankers seize the assets. At least, that's the plan.

Fuck you Dimon.

Blogger Jim July 05, 2015 7:03 PM  

Thanks to Greenspan and Bernanke (anyone want to play ''guess the ethnicity''?) small local banks are an endangered species.

During the bailout, when the big banks were demonstrated to be the most dishonest actors while getting public money tossed at them hand over fist, the politicians screamed "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!" They settled on that something, which was to crack down on the credit unions that had been responsible lenders and were still solvent.

Anonymous Steve July 05, 2015 7:04 PM  

Nil - same reason banks loan money to other basket case economies, like Argentina. In fact - same reason why people with bad credit histories and minimum wage jobs can get loans.

It's a risky loan, so the interest rate reflects that. Everybody hopes they'll get paid before the debtor defaults.

And in the Greek case there's also the huge dollop of moral hazard created by expectations of EU bailouts.

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 05, 2015 7:05 PM  

Bankers are people who create credit money from nothing. Then they repeatedly sell it back to each other in various forms. The idea that such money can copulate and make more of itself is sterile intercourse, i.e. sodomy. It should end in shame and tears for all involved.

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 7:05 PM  

Same thing happened in 2008 right here in the USA. Do you know how much Goldman Sachs lost in that disaster? Not one penny. They were 100% compensated by the US Treasury. Do you know who the Treasury Secretary was at the time? Hank Paulson, ex-CEO of... Goldman Sachs.

Blogger Doom July 05, 2015 7:05 PM  

There are only two sides in Europe. The left, the other left, the other other left, and the other other other left. Though there might be one or two other lefts out there, by party name or style, somehow. What happened to logic there, did the old Poland of low IQ jokes win a quiet war on the whole continent? They call it right and left, but when you pull morality, ethics, and God out of it completely, you just end up with fascists, socialists, communists, and various forms of (other) nihilists. No one can win over there. It's simply a matter of who loses faster and to whom. They, themselves, are among their own worst enemies.

While you are right, that the Greeks voted "no", and overwhelmingly, you haven't convinced me that they did it for the right reasons. Of those who voted "no", how many just did it as a hoped bargaining chip for... *cough* more debt. Time will tell, but I am extremely suspicious of the boomer generation, here or there.

Blogger Josh July 05, 2015 7:11 PM  

IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?

That's what bankers always do.

When the times are good, no loan looks bad.

Anonymous rubberducky July 05, 2015 7:18 PM  

George of the Jungle reasonably wonders if Tsipras will wind up selling out to the banksters in the end. I don't think so, here's why:

He was elected with an impossible mandate with these three elements 1) End austerity, 2) Stay in the EU, 3) Keep the Euro. Can't all be done.

Now, with this vote, he's got a new mandate. End the austerity and screw the banksters. In fact I think that was the plan all along, because the deal was to expire before the vote anyway. He set it up so that the only vote with real meaning was, "NO". And viola.

The Greeks have run circles around the EU on this. Circles.

And off topic BTW: US women are utterly destroying the Japanese in the World Cup!!! More circles!

Blogger Cinco July 05, 2015 7:20 PM  

You shouldn't. They've put more banks out of business since 2008 than any period besides the S&L Crisis and the Great Depression.

Ahhh. But they are then gobbled up by Citi, BoA, etc. thereby centralizing the systemic risk even more, and enlarging the TBTF's.

Blogger Student in Blue July 05, 2015 7:26 PM  

You shouldn't. They've put more banks out of business since 2008 than any period besides the S&L Crisis and the Great Depression.

Really, with all the rules and regulations and laws-that-try-to-prevent-crime-but-fail, it's no wonder that Credit Unions and other "bank-like" institutions have been growing in popularity and are in effect indistinguishable from banks, to the customer.

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 05, 2015 7:39 PM  

Can someone explain all of the cheering I see on this site for deadbeats who refuse to pay back their debts?

The EU has been forcing them to treat illegals better than their own citizens. What does a greek taxpayer owe for Laskanka's illegitimate crackbabies?

That's why J.K. Rowling never wears sleeveless dresses in public...swastika and SS death's head tatoos on her biceps. She posts on Stormfront as "AryanSortingHat88".

I was just talking to her yesterday I post there as ErnstRoehmGKK

Anonymous BGS July 05, 2015 7:49 PM  

That last part was sarcasm I wouldn't want thordaddy trying to purge something from his site that didn't exist. Ernst Roehm was the leader of the brown shirts killed for being gay.

Blogger VD July 05, 2015 7:51 PM  

IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?

To keep the game going while they're still working and hopefully cash out before the crash.

Blogger Floyd Looney July 05, 2015 8:16 PM  

Greece is going to get "austerity" either way, by whatever term they use. Whether they use euro's or a newly printed currency. They will not be able spend more than they raise forever, which seems to be their main goal. Dumping the banks and euro is good but I don't think that most of them have a long-term plan. (gut the welfare state)

Blogger Cinco July 05, 2015 8:22 PM  

@floyd Looney

Exactly right. Except this way the Greeks get a little of their sovereignty back and a chance at a future. I don't think anyone has any misperceptions about what the EU was going to do to Greece over the long run if they stayed as a member.

Blogger So Meh July 05, 2015 8:25 PM  

"IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?"

there is no long term profit (30 year bond), but very large short term salaries and (beyond huge) bonus money to be made.

great movie on this bankster world view...take place over 24 hours when the music begins to stop, i think it is still on netflix streaming; "Margin Call" - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/ Dialogue is well written...David Mamet style. " Be first. Be smarter. Or cheat."

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 8:36 PM  

From zerohedge.com:

"Greece Contemplates Nuclear Options: May Print Euros, Launch Parallel Currency, Nationalize Banks"

Meanwhile, the Chinese stock market has jumped off the tracks and burst into flame, down 30% and still plunging. Luckily, I can live off of photosynthesis, if worse comes to worst.

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 8:40 PM  

114. BGS

> Ernst Roehm was the leader of the brown shirts killed for being gay.

Is that what they told you in Gay School Steve?

Hitler was aware of Röhm's homosexuality. At this point they were so close that they addressed each other as du (the German familiar form of "you"). No other top Nazi leader enjoyed that privilege, and their close association led to rumors that Hitler himself was homosexual.[7] Röhm was the only Nazi leader who dared to address Hitler by his first name "Adolf" rather than "mein Führer."[6]

As Hitler rose to national power with his appointment as Chancellor in 1933, SA members were appointed auxiliary police and marched into local government offices forcing officials to surrender their authority to the Nazis.


He was a power rival. He was trying to set up a power structure replacing the German Army in power. Hitler knew the Army had the power to remove him at any time, but they didn't have sufficient motivation. If Rohm had not been reigned in , Hitler knew he had an existential problem.

Blogger Jack Ward July 05, 2015 8:45 PM  

Someone up page asked what the EU and the banksters get out of all this. It may be timing. Now, timing for what is the question. So much is happening right now, both in the EU, here in the USA and in places like China. Whoever makes the proper connection may win the lollipop.

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 8:47 PM  

@ VD

To keep the game going while they're still working and hopefully cash out before the crash.

When Mark Carney was Governor of the Bank of Canada, he used to write a lot about the meltdown. One time, he mentioned that one part of fixing the financial system was to get bankers to become more ethical.

They shut him up by buying him out. Made him the head of the Bank of England. Haven't heard a word about that since.

Blogger Nate July 05, 2015 8:48 PM  

I love these people claiming the Greeks are dead beats. Yet when we talk about american debt... suddenly the song changes.

The financial shenanigans involved in the creation of all this debt are to blame. Which is why the default is not only necessary... but inevitable.

It has nothing to do with work ethic or morality. No amount of austerity will EVER pay it off because there is more debt than actual money in existence. There is more debt than actual value in the entire world.

The answer is to erase the debt...and either throw those responsible in jail or in some case out right execute them.

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 8:48 PM  

Holy cat fight, Batman! zen0 is taking on BigGaySteve about gay nazis in a cage fight!!

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 8:54 PM  

Eric Margolis says:

If the Greeks were really wise, they would oust all the incompetent café socialists now misruling Athens and bring in a technocratic government of hired Swiss officials to pull them out of bankruptcy.

I think he is an idiot.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 05, 2015 8:55 PM  

If they kept the farce for so long nevertheless, they must be getting something out of it. The question is what? I find it hard to believe it was just to buy time or save face.

1) There's always profit in it, for the people who are making the deals and moving the money.

2) If you're in a term-limited position as many politicians are, or simply expect to retire to a nice beach at some point, why wouldn't "buying time" be one of your main concerns?

Anonymous IsMise July 05, 2015 9:01 PM  

"Where is that NATO quick reaction force? Will the EU's tanks roll into Greece? "
When monkeys fly out of my butt.

Blogger Nate July 05, 2015 9:05 PM  

"When monkeys fly out of my butt."

Depends on Spain and Italy and the derivatives market. if they decide it all goes ***BOOM*** if greece defaults they will definately opt for the War Option... as the war will cover up the boom and give them cover to pull even more crazy shenanigans to save their asses.

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 9:08 PM  

If I were IsMise, I would fervently hope against this eventuality. Although, it would be entertaining to watch from a safe distance (the flying monkey thing, I mean, not the war).

Anonymous The other robot July 05, 2015 9:13 PM  

"Where is that NATO quick reaction force? Will the EU's tanks roll into Greece? "
When monkeys fly out of my butt.


Thank you for confirming that it is one of the options, flunky.

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 9:13 PM  

Mish on the vote:

Also, and as I commented earlier, Greeks had virtually nothing to gain by voting 'yes' after German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble commented that further negotiations would be on a "completely new basis and under difficult economic conditions" even if Greeks voted 'yes'.

Is Schauble being too clever, very smart, or just an old fart. He is Merkel's mentor, after all.

Time will tell.

Blogger rcocean July 05, 2015 9:17 PM  

I think its most unchristian of the Bankers to demand repayment of their loans. What about "turn the other cheek" what about forgiveness? Doesn't that apply to loans too?

Lol - I didn't realize the banksters played by Alinskey's rules too.

Blogger rcocean July 05, 2015 9:19 PM  

And good grief why does everything have to be such a drawn out drama? Why doesn't everyone just admit that extending the Euro to countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal was a mistake?

Anonymous Varoufaku July 05, 2015 9:25 PM  

Acropolis Now

I love the smell of default in the morning

Anonymous BGS July 05, 2015 9:26 PM  

"Holy cat fight, Batman! zen0 is taking on BigGaySteve about gay nazis in a cage fight!!""told you in Gay School Steve?"

I figured I would just try to keep it short so I didn't ruin Thordaddy's weekend by having him try to ban something he couldn't find.

Blogger Nate July 05, 2015 9:28 PM  

This business is gonna get out of control. Its gonna get outta control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 9:30 PM  

> Why doesn't everyone just admit that extending the Euro to countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal was a mistake?

BCZ a lot of bureaucrats are dining out on the illusion that they are useful and necessary. If they lose that, they will have to get a real job.

It is similar to having a professional priesthood in order to worship the Lord.

Don't get me started.

Blogger Jim July 05, 2015 9:33 PM  

I love these people claiming the Greeks are dead beats. Yet when we talk about american debt... suddenly the song changes.

That's not what I have seen. People who cheer for Greece to wipe out their debt also call for the US to do the same. Those who call the Greeks "deadbeats" also tend to say that the US should pay its debts.

And yeah, I blame the American people (myself included) for our current situation. The appalling lack of bodies hanging from lampposts at the time of the bailout is proof of our culpability. People sold our children into bondage: what else could be the appropriate response?

Anonymous zen0! July 05, 2015 9:37 PM  

136. Nate July 05, 2015 9:28 PM

This business is gonna get out of control. Its gonna get outta control and we'll be lucky to live through it.


Pull yourself together man! Put a paper bag over your head. These people are professionals, they know what they are doing!

Anonymous Jack Amok July 05, 2015 9:38 PM  

I love these people claiming the Greeks are dead beats...It has nothing to do with work ethic or morality.

If anything, the arrow probably goes the other way - the financial and government shenanigans have probably eroded the work ethic in Greece. As is happening in the US too. When you see people getting rich in finance while the people who actually work for a living are struggling to get by, why shouldn't we expect people to start looking for their own con game to play?

Anonymous rubberducky July 05, 2015 9:59 PM  

The Greeks have always had a lot of economic problems and their share of fraudulent practices. But, if published numbers can be believed:

- This year, admittedly before this current crisis, Greece has been running a surplus of 4.5% of GDP. Americans about to throw stones at them, consider that. Problem is, that's still not enough to service the financing anymore.

- The average age of retirement in Greece is 67 years old. In the US it's 65 (but heading up).

- The average public pension in Greece is $733. Average Social Security benefit per month in the US is $1170.

So, I'm not going to be on the "Greeks are bums" bandwagon, for one. Imagine if the US went on a crash course to a 4.5% GDP surplus, how many people would be screaming bloody murder and how much unrest there would be, ... and then banksters came along and said, "We need still more from you."

What's happened in Athens would look like a picnic compared to what'd happen around here.

Anonymous harry12 July 05, 2015 9:59 PM  

Nate July 05, 2015 8:48 PM
The financial shenanigans involved in the creation of all this debt are to blame. Which is why the default is not only necessary... but inevitable.

It has nothing to do with work ethic or morality. No amount of austerity will EVER pay it off because there is more debt than actual money in existence. There is more debt than actual value in the entire world.

.
Are you actually trying to make us believe that 2+2 does NOT equal five? Huh! I'm gonna have to check with my Papua New Guinean banker.
.

Anonymous zen0 July 05, 2015 10:02 PM  

Interesting take from a Russian Orthodox Christian

This is the fifth time the an Orthodox nation has said “no” to the dictatorship of the AngloZionist plutocracy which currently occupies the European continent on behalf of the USA. The first time was, of course, when the Bosnian Serbs refused to cave in to the US/NATO/EU threats and decided to take up arms rather than to submit to the transnational terrorist network demanding their subjugation. The second time was when the people of Crimea voted “yes” to break away from the Ukronazi Banderastan. The third time was when the people of Novorussia did rise up and voted “no” with the ballot and, eventually, with their guns. The fourth time was when the people of Russia decided to give their total backing to Putin and his categorical rejection of the US/EU/NATO hegemony. And today is the fifth time that an Orthodox nation, the people of Greece, decided to say no to the bankers, financiers, crooks and politicians who serve the 1% and their interest.

Anonymous BGS July 05, 2015 10:17 PM  

OT: Anyone interested in training to escape the nigapocalypse. http://www.zyonpro.com/fieldjournal/2015/6/22/escaping-from-a-city-near-you
"I am interested in conducting some real world urban escape scenarios from a major metropolitan area. Our base camp, Boise, Idaho, does not fit the bill. If you ever wondered what it would be like to make it home on foot from your office during a major disaster or emergency, here is your chance to test your route and emergency gear. I'm looking for a host city and someone on the ground who is willing to help with logistics.

Here are the criteria I am looking for:

Population of 1,000,000 or greater
Major public transportation infrastructure
At least 15 miles to reach our designated safe zone
At least 1 overnight bivouac site en-route to our designated safe zone
Great food and attractions to enjoy after the scenario is complete!!

Blogger Groot July 05, 2015 10:20 PM  

You mean Thordaddy, the black White Supremacist?

Anonymous Gofrey July 05, 2015 10:21 PM  

Get it over with... default! Write off the debt.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 05, 2015 10:36 PM  

I also have wondered if the "no" vote winning, if there will be consequences relating to NATO, especially money flows to Greece?

Anonymous horsewithnonick July 05, 2015 10:50 PM  

IDGI, why are bankers aggressively loaning to Greece if they know full well it won't be repaid in full? Where's the profit in that?

Greece is bankrupt. So are the banks to which it owes money. But as long as Greece can make its minimum payments on schedule, the banks can pretend that those loans are not basically garbage, and can count them as assets against their own otherwise-unmanageable liabilities...

So the banks loan Greece the money with which to pretend it is solvent, so the banks can continue to pretend that they are solvent. At least, until the ever-increasing interest expense eats Greece's economy.

Anonymous TroperA July 05, 2015 10:51 PM  

So, I'm not going to be on the "Greeks are bums" bandwagon, for one. Imagine if the US went on a crash course to a 4.5% GDP surplus, how many people would be screaming bloody murder and how much unrest there would be, ... and then banksters came along and said, "We need still more from you."

What's happened in Athens would look like a picnic compared to what'd happen around here.


Nah. What'd happen around here is that another celebrity would decide that they've been a woman all along and the eyes of America would turn to the struggle of this courageous soul attempting to be true to their own identity in the face of heteronormative cis-oppression.

But some poor sod celebrity would have to volunteer to have their junk cut off in order to provide the distraction. Or maybe not. Will Smith's kid is starting to look pretty fruity these days....

Blogger Jim July 05, 2015 10:58 PM  

But some poor sod celebrity would have to volunteer to have their junk cut off in order to provide the distraction. Or maybe not. Will Smith's kid is starting to look pretty fruity these days....

Nah. They can just say they're going to cut their junk off and tell everyone to call them "Sally" without even going through the trouble of filling out the legal paperwork. Nothing permanent required.

Blogger Robert What? July 05, 2015 11:08 PM  

I, too, applaud the Greeks giving the middle finger to the international banksters. Now if they can just do the same to the other villains in the story: the public sector unions, who by and large made the bailouts necessary. I'm afraid that is going to be a much tougher but to crack, however.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 05, 2015 11:44 PM  

Time for another "color revolution?"

Anonymous rubberducky July 05, 2015 11:47 PM  

You're on to it, Robert What? People read that some Greeks are retiring with sweet deals at age 50. But they forget our California lifeguards, who have pulled off the heist of a century, and countless cushy deals for retired firemen and police officers, all of whom are pulling the same trick only beating the Greeks at it. So many sweetheart deals between the local politicians and the public unions who elect them. They'll eat up the local seed corn in a generation, because the public has no seat on that bargaining table.

Blogger Groot July 06, 2015 12:13 AM  

@154. Robert What?

"much tougher but to crack": That is a funny typo there.

Blogger Corvinus July 06, 2015 12:28 AM  

I also have wondered if the "no" vote winning, if there will be consequences relating to NATO, especially money flows to Greece?

@JaimeInTexas
I don't think so... NATO has nothing to do with the EU, except for happening to have many of the same members.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 06, 2015 12:43 AM  

I can't resist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Zgp-EzfOU

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 06, 2015 1:41 AM  

The horse never learned to sing.

Blogger Robert What? July 06, 2015 2:54 AM  

@Groot, I did it on purpose. Yeah, that's the ticket :)

Blogger Shimshon July 06, 2015 2:57 AM  

"I mean, you do realize that the Bible counsels defaulting on debt every 50 years, right?"

I don't know if I would use the word "counsel" on the matter. But the Torah cancels debt every SEVEN years. Although in later times, as people's willingness to lend in later years of the cycle waned, prozbul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozbul) was developed as a workaround to encourage lending.

Israel is not really the Jewish State yet. It's more the State of the Jews. But it does make some pretense of adhering to our traditions. So the state, in the guise of the Chief Rabbi, sells the government-owned chametz every year before Pesach. As one example.

Banks, likewise, all claim to abide by halacha on ribbis (interest) through the use of the heter iska (http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/heter1.html). In the case of the banks, when the entire system is credit-based with the Bank of Israel as lender of last resort, this is obviously impossible. Having dealt with debt locally, the system is pretty bad. If you are in arrears (to a utility for example), the law totally favors the creditor. They can tack on penalties and interest. They can actually prevent you from leaving the country through an easily-obtained court order. For small amounts of unsecured debt.

Blogger James Dixon July 06, 2015 9:00 AM  

>Frankly, I'm not sure it would be a bad thing if international opinion changed so that no one felt responsible for paying back national loans.

There are no more than a handful of countries where the people do feel that way.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 06, 2015 9:26 AM  

"I mean, you do realize that the Bible counsels defaulting on debt every 50 years, right?"

I would also add that the word "defaulting" is wrong. Defaulting is not the same as forgiving.

The whole debt structure for the Jewish nation seems to be designed to limit borrowing to only short term so that , in case of default and no assets to satisfy the creditor, the debt can be satisfied with limited indentured labor and not for lifetime. As to the land rents. Remember that the land (Promised Land, Israel, Palestine, whatever name you want to use) being returned to its owner, was divided among the 12 tribes and were to stay within the tribes. Land transfers are really long term leases if you do the transfer after the year of jubilee. No transfer, or loans, should be done in the year prior the jubilee.

Of course, like all things, humans tend to corrupt any system and this was no exception.

Anonymous BGS July 06, 2015 11:13 AM  

You mean Thordaddy, the black White Supremacist?

Thordaddy is black? Do the people at stormfront know?

Will Smith's kid is starting to look pretty fruity these days....

the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Blogger Bard July 06, 2015 11:33 AM  

I think a very real possibility is to crash the system so that like in Egypt, the last thing people sell is themselves. Why stop at owning everything when you can own everyone? Even more insidious, through a cashless system, people won't even know they did it!

Anonymous Quartermaster July 06, 2015 12:05 PM  

The Media is owned and run my SJWs. everything else falls out from that fact.

Blogger Groot July 06, 2015 3:17 PM  

162. Shimshon:

Stay away from the halacha on ribbis at Chipotle.

165. BGS
"You mean Thordaddy, the black White Supremacist?

Thordaddy is black? Do the people at stormfront know?"

Does he really troll over there, too? That is hilarious.

Anonymous Donn #0114 July 06, 2015 8:32 PM  

Thordaddy is black wtf is he uncle Ruckus - no relation?

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