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Thursday, July 02, 2015

This is what happens

When you put women in the pulpit  It doesn't surprise me in the least. Notice how wide the approval is; the deputies were just itching to have an excuse to turn canon into parody.
The Episcopal Church officially joined Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the United Church of Christ this week in becoming the third mainline denomination to embrace gay marriage rites — a move that comes just days after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized same-sex unions.

The new liturgy extending marriage to gays and lesbians was widely approved with a vote of 184-23 by the Episcopal Church USA’s House of Deputies during the denomination’s 78th General Convention; it will become available for use on November 29, Deseret News reported.

In a separate vote of 173 to 27, the institution of marriage was changed from being comprised exclusively by a man and a woman to being between two persons more generally, with the line “both parties understand that Holy Matrimony is a physical and spiritual union of a man and a woman” being axed from the canon.
Once the women start preaching, it's only a matter of time before Jesus Christ himself is axed from the canon. Refuse to accept the authority of God's Word in one thing, you may as well refuse to accept them all, because sooner or later, that's where you're headed.

The headline is wrong, however. The Episcopal Church ceased to be a Christian church some years ago.

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244 Comments:

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Anonymous Curious but not an SJW July 02, 2015 3:35 PM  

How long before they add:

all parties understand that Holy Matrimony is a physical and spiritual union one or more people and their consenting animals?

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 3:39 PM  

Mat 13:25 but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
Mat 13:26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
Mat 13:27 And the servants of the householder came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?'
Mat 13:28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
Mat 13:29 But he said, 'No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"


2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

Anonymous Quartermaster July 02, 2015 3:39 PM  

The EC ceased to be a Christian Church when the appointed their first female "elder." The rest was down hill.

Blogger Salt July 02, 2015 3:45 PM  

Can't wait till they change the story of Noah -

8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah.

turning it into some kinda gay cruise.

/s

Blogger Nikis-Knight July 02, 2015 3:45 PM  

Wow, what a coincidence that they just happened to discover that the Bible secretly supports gay marriage within a week of discovering that the constitutions secretly supports gay marriage? What are the odds? It's almost as if the text really has nothing to do with anything, but that would be silly, considering all the oaths on the former to defend the latter.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) July 02, 2015 3:49 PM  

It's not what it is. It's what some wacko feels it is.

Blogger Guitar Man July 02, 2015 3:50 PM  

The only people I've seen at those churches are the homeless who go there on Tuesdays to get free bags of groceries.

Anonymous Varenius July 02, 2015 3:52 PM  

They are dead now, even in just a worldly sense. Once the old fogies staying on for tradition's sake kick the bucket, these churches will be reduced to a dwindling core of urban faggotry.

Anonymous Taylor137 July 02, 2015 3:56 PM  

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Blogger Alexander Thompson July 02, 2015 4:02 PM  

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Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 02, 2015 4:02 PM  

Give me some clarity here:

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way, would it be necessary to leave my church if they merely acknowledged its existence?

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:03 PM  

For your itching ears, Taylor, may I recommend the Episcopal church? See you there, buh bye now.

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 4:03 PM  

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Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 July 02, 2015 4:03 PM  

And now a word from The Church of Making Shit Up:


> If you can't live with women having a place at every table, you can't claim to 1) care about the fate of humanity nor 2) to be a champion of the Lord's word.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:04 PM  

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way, would it be necessary to leave my church if they merely acknowledged its existence?
If you have to ask, you're clearly not a Christian.

Blogger jay c July 02, 2015 4:07 PM  

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way...

No need to go any further than that. None of the rest matters.

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 4:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Alexander July 02, 2015 4:08 PM  

If you can't live with women having a place at every table, you can't claim to 1) care about the fate of humanity nor 2) to be a champion of the Lord's word.

Gay marriage proponents: a woman at every table, except the dinner one.

Blogger Salt July 02, 2015 4:09 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 02, 2015 4:12 PM  

Markku,

I am one.

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 4:13 PM  

Better than since*

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:13 PM  

Ok, I won't fight the point, I'll postpone that discussion until Judgement Day.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 02, 2015 4:16 PM  

If you can't live with women having a place at every table, you can't claim to 1) care about the fate of humanity nor 2) to be a champion of the Lord's word.

Except that both Peter and Paul opposed having women teach men in the Church. And Jesus, despite having women in his ministry, never sent them out to preach nor considered any of them his disciples.

And who cared more about the fate of humanity than the Son Himself?

Blogger Cail Corishev July 02, 2015 4:21 PM  

I'd have sworn they'd been marrying gays for years. It's fun, though, to see who's "coming out" as if this suddenly makes it okay to be for gay marriage. As if the pastor of a church couldn't be in favor of it before because his hierarchy said so, but now that the Supreme Court has spoken, that's all over.

Anonymous FriarBob July 02, 2015 4:22 PM  

@swiftfoxmark

Oh they were definitely among His disciples, that just means student. A rare few may even have been deaconesses. They simply were not given the office of elder or apostle.

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 4:26 PM  

FriarBob, that's not what disciple meant in Jewish thought of the time. A disciple was a very zealous kind of follower, someone who was fully committed to following a teacher and abandon his normal life. Women were not participatory in this practice. Also, where's your scriptural evidence about the women being deaconesses?

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 02, 2015 4:28 PM  

Markku,

I'm game to hear more. If I'm mistaken in my view, even to the point you think I may not be a Christian, I'm willing to listen. My view is that I simply don't care to waste time thinking about others sin. It's irrelevant to me. I asked my question earnestly.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:30 PM  

Yes, the word for "the disciples" has the same meaning as "his classroom". Finnish bibles translate that word as "opetuslapsi" = "teaching-child". When they were following Jesus, they were his disciples. When he sent them out to the world, they became his apostles, which means "sent out ones".

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:33 PM  

I'm game to hear more. If I'm mistaken in my view, even to the point you think I may not be a Christian, I'm willing to listen. My view is that I simply don't care to waste time thinking about others sin. It's irrelevant to me. I asked my question earnestly.

The Bible, both the Old and the New Testament condemns homosexual practice in absolutely unambiguous terms. It is not possible - not the tiniest bit - to hold a contrary view honesty. Everyone who claims to do so is a liar, and will answer to God.

If you as a Christian can sit in a church and listen to the pastor spit in God's face, and not be disgusted enough by the sight of it to leave immediately, then we will have this discussion on Judgement Day. As for now, do what you will.

Anonymous Taylor137 July 02, 2015 4:36 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Lovekraft July 02, 2015 4:36 PM  

so the Catholic church is infiltrated by a small number of pedophiles/gays and the media never shuts up about it.

and now we have society bending over backwards (pun intended) to accommodate gays and feminists, with there to be scandals involving youths and their 'elders' in the future.

anyone else see a shakedown of the CC like I did?

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 02, 2015 4:37 PM  

Markku,

If you as a Christian can sit in a church and listen to the pastor spit in God's face, and not be disgusted enough by the sight of it to leave immediately

Fair enough.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 02, 2015 4:37 PM  

Unlike the Supreme Court decisions, which were not really on Christianity, this is.

Worse sexual corruption has not been seen.

To speak of Christianity and paganism as though the former stands for purity and the latter for sexual corruption is silly now.

One can say: there are good men and bad in different religions; there are good and bad cults and denominations, and so on. That's fine.

But to speak of Christianity looking back on classical paganism from some moral height? No. That can't look the facts in the face.

"Decadent" Ancient Rome probably deserves an apology in general, compared to this. The "gay" Greeks too.

Blogger Student in Blue July 02, 2015 4:38 PM  

Give me some clarity here:

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way, would it be necessary to leave my church if they merely acknowledged its existence?


You should consider the state of your vine, if those are your fruits.

Blogger astrodominant July 02, 2015 4:38 PM  

I was in Boston a few months back walking around in a historic part of town and there was an old Episcopal church. There were four banners outside. Three had images of the woman pastor. One was about some Spring event. That place was not about God or Jesus, it was about her. Just disgusting to see.

Blogger Russell (106) July 02, 2015 4:38 PM  

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

Seems pretty clear there.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 02, 2015 4:39 PM  

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way, would it be necessary to leave my church if they merely acknowledged its existence?
If you have to ask, you're clearly not a Christian.


Dude, I'm not a Christian yet, and I can probably count the total n. Of times I been in a church on my fingers and even *I* thought...."say what??? Are you fully retarded? Would you need to leave your church if they started to rape children on the altar? " I mean the logic is the same as far as I can tell.

Anonymous bw July 02, 2015 4:39 PM  

I'm sure those respective 23 and 27 "Nay" vote people have left already.
You know, on Christian principle or something.

Blogger Alexander July 02, 2015 4:41 PM  

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Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 4:42 PM  

These Church's are dead and have been for a long time. Throw in the Methodist church and others as well. I remember when the Methodist church picked Jocelyn Elders for woman of the year. They did with Hillary as well. Two abortionists and a lesbian and a teacher of masturbation techniques to children.

"I never knew you". - Jesus Christ

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 4:44 PM  

The fact is that women have the potential to excel at every endeavor equally well as men.

Every endeavor, you say? Without exception?

Blogger VD July 02, 2015 4:44 PM  

If I don't give even a little bit of a damn about gay marriage either way, would it be necessary to leave my church if they merely acknowledged its existence?

It's not about you. But yes, you will probably want to leave your church for one that actually attempts to follow the Bible rather than the world.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 02, 2015 4:44 PM  

Nikis-Knight: "It's almost as if the text really has nothing to do with anything, but that would be silly, considering all the oaths on the former to defend the latter."

Due to modern divorce, we are as a society used to breaking oaths and thinking nothing of it, and being let by men and women who have broken their oaths.

If you had told the ancients, pagan or Christian, that their descendants would build a society of routine breakers of holy vows, they would have been appalled and predicted doom.

Blogger Rek. July 02, 2015 4:46 PM  

anyone else see a shakedown of the CC like I did?

The Catholic Church has been shaken down then stabbed to death. It is impossible these days to meet people who don't hold the Village of Light in the most contemptuous disregard.

Belgium has been deChritianized thanks in great part, it is my very strong belief, to the freemasons and jews (without wanting to open the gates to conspiracy theories).

Blogger maniacprovost July 02, 2015 4:46 PM  

women have the potential to excel at every endeavor equally well as men. Whether it's preaching the Word of God, fighting fires

Now that's funny.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 4:48 PM  

My mother-in-laws church, Methodist, recently lost their female preacher to the psyche ward.

We went on Christmas Eve to her church because the children wanted to go. She preached on the assassins, the Three Wise Men, who were sent to kill the "bawby Jeesuus". She also didn't know her mic was on before the sermon and was talking about some people who were in the church to some other people (not a flattering discussion and the whole church heard it).

The straw that broke the camels back was her repeatedly claiming Clint Black, the country singer, was stalking her. Sneaking around her house, calling her, asking her friends if they knew how he could marry her.

Women and psychoactive meds: the gift that just keeps giving.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:49 PM  

My mother-in-laws church, Methodist, recently lost their female preacher to the psyche ward.

Praise the good Lord! Amen, and hallelujah.

Blogger Salt July 02, 2015 4:52 PM  

women have the potential to excel at every endeavor equally well as men

That's octagon-ally funny. I will throw you a feelz-good bone and admit that Excel is the next best thing to PowerPoint.

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata July 02, 2015 4:53 PM  

And the Mormon sellout begins: https://www.facebook.com/UTpridecenter/posts/10153202379773961

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 4:54 PM  

What sex acts between two men do these church's celebrate as normal.

Is it anal? Is it oral? Is it gerbils? Is it group sex? Stranger sex? Is it "whatever else they do which I am sure knows no boundaries".

I would like to hear how that will be addressed in their "gay marriage seminars"...

Anonymous zen0 July 02, 2015 4:55 PM  

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Anonymous SS July 02, 2015 4:57 PM  

And the Mormon sellout begins

Well, let's face it. They weren't following the teachings of the bible before anyway. When you're already condemned, might as well live it up.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 4:59 PM  

Want some more word from the Lord of Hosts? Here's more.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Gee, what would be a modern word for that?

I know. Celebrate.

Anonymous T July 02, 2015 4:59 PM  

if your concern is creating a world in which human beings can prosper.

Prosperity Gospel drivel.

This 'interpretation' of Christianity is worldly and materialistic in its focus. Hence, wrong.

Between these people and those who think that Christianity and spirituality are distillable down to Luuuuuhhhhvvv...

Some people just see what they want to see.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:02 PM  

NATO is supposedly kicking around the tact of taking out Putin on the basis of his human rights violations against the homosexuals (explains why we had to placate the gays).

We may go to nuclear war for the precious rights of sodomites (and to kill the morons of the earth while the elites feast and screw in their bunkers).

This is just getting better every day.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 02, 2015 5:03 PM  

Markku: "Gee, what would be a modern word for that?

I know. Celebrate."

That would be the one.

Anonymous Huckleberry (#87) -- est. 1977 July 02, 2015 5:04 PM  

I get "interesting times" and all that, but I honestly never thought it'd be quite this moronic.
What a stupid time to be alive.

Anonymous Steve July 02, 2015 5:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite July 02, 2015 5:05 PM  

Tiny Tim: "NATO is supposedly kicking around the tact of taking out Putin..."

Oh, and again: long live Russia.

Blogger Dave W. (#0257) July 02, 2015 5:07 PM  

Wow. I went to a Presbyterian church & a Presbyterian school when I was a kid. To paraphrase Ronnie Reagan, I didn't leave the Presbyterian church, the PCA left me.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:07 PM  

If women can do anything men can do...

Show me a building a crew of women constructed from the ground up? OK, I will make it easier, show me a house? Or even better, a dog house, or a swimming pool?

I would assume it may have possibly occurred at the level of a dog house.

How long have women been in universities? How long have they been in the workforce? And nothing yet to show us all how women can come together and accomplish "great things".

If things were reversed and men had been oppressed for 6,000 years (if you even believe that) and they were released from bondage after WW2 they would have taken over everything from the women by now, guaranteed.

It is like combat, women will never be able to handle combat. Never!

Blogger bob k. mando July 02, 2015 5:07 PM  

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Blogger Ragin' Dave July 02, 2015 5:09 PM  

The Episcopal Church has been pro-gay for a long time. That's why nobody really gives a shit about the Episcopal Church anymore.

They're just another Social Justice group in a sea of gay-loving social justice groups. They're not really a church at all. Not a Christian one in any case.

Blogger Ragin' Dave July 02, 2015 5:12 PM  

Side note - in my job, I deal with a lot of Korean Presbyterians. Don't ask why, just listen. These Koreans come to America and try to link up with the PCUSA, or the "reformed" American Presbyterian Church. And most of these Koreans end up leaving that church and finding another one that doesn't violate Christ's precepts. I've had more than one Korean admit to me (rather furtively, because they still hold a great deal of respect for the Presbyterian Church in Korea) that they don't think the PCUSA is really Presbyterian at all. They see what the PCUSA is like, and they jump ship.

So if you happen to see a Korean Baptist minister, now you know why. No, I'm not kidding.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:13 PM  

I have seen women with engineering degrees in the workforce my whole working life.

I have never known one to design anything substantial. I have never known one who had an in depth working knowledge of anything, even if they were tasked with running it (say a process in a chemical plant). They always make sure they have a "senior" male engineer doing their work to make sure the plant doesn't blow up.

They all end up in safety, HR and pushing paper.

Blogger Russell (106) July 02, 2015 5:14 PM  

@Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata.

Maybe.

Here's an official statement from the LDS church leadership: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/top-church-leaders-counsel-members-after-supreme-court-same-sex-marriage-decision

A few highlights.

"Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change the moral law that God has established. God expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions or trends in society. His law of chastity is clear: sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife."

"Consistent with our fundamental beliefs, Church officers will not employ their ecclesiastical authority to perform marriages between two people of the same sex, and the Church does not permit its meetinghouses or other properties to be used for ceremonies, receptions, or other activities associated with same‐sex marriages."

"The Church insists on its leaders’ and members’ right to express and advocate religious convictions on marriage, family, and morality free from retaliation or retribution. The Church is also entitled to maintain its standards of moral conduct and good standing for members."

Anonymous Steve July 02, 2015 5:14 PM  

Tiny Tim - the Russian homophobe meme is just bullshit.

Homosexuality is legal in Russia. There are dozens of countries where it is a serious criminal offence, and even some where they legally torture, castrate or execute gays. For example, our pals in Saudi Arabia.

Blogger bob k. mando July 02, 2015 5:15 PM  

46. Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata July 02, 2015 4:53 PM
And the Mormon sellout begins:



has the Mormon church verified this? what is the first thing SJWs do?

the Mormons have plenty of their own outreach programs. it would baffle me in the extreme that the MORMON CHURCH would even bother donating their money to a non-Mormon cause.

Blogger Rabbi B July 02, 2015 5:15 PM  

Acts 20:28-32

"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of G-d which He purchased with His own blood. "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

"Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. "Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

"So now, brethren, I commend you to G-d and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified . . ."

We have little to fear from without.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:18 PM  

In regards to Russia, I believe the condemnation by NATO is for Putin and the whole country is painted with that broad brush for the purposes of kicking off the population reduction measures, also known as a nuclear, chemical and biological war between the US and Russia.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:20 PM  

Think about it. The US is taking the moral high ground supporting sodomites and their right to sodomize each other in matrimony.

Those countries that do not embrace gays are an affront to the civilized nations of the world, and must be taken out as that is the only moral and right thing to do.

This is strategy.

And as far as gay's already being able to marry. Look no further than Barack and Michelle, or Bill and Hillary. Their are married gays in both of those relationships.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 5:22 PM  

...and curse the joining together of this man and this man in Profane Matrimony...

Blogger Danby July 02, 2015 5:26 PM  

@Tom,
Just shut up already, Tad. You're ignorant, dishonest, lazy and have a severe case of unwarranted self-importance syndrome.

You have nothing interesting to say, and you've just become tedious at this point.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:26 PM  

We are flying B-2's on the Russian border. We are staging heavy weapons and NATO troops on the Russian Border. We told Putin he will comply or else (recent phone call with Barry the Gay President).

Now NATO is considering pushing gay rights in it's condemnation of Russia and Putin to engender support for a provocation with Russia.

These moron's in America can get behind that. They will support being irradiated for the rights of perverts to sodomize each other as sure as I am typing.

We have achieved that level of stupidity.

Blogger Rabbi B July 02, 2015 5:27 PM  

Oh . . . Tom Toad, we forgot you were there . . . you may go now.

Anonymous Anonymous July 02, 2015 5:28 PM  

is it just me or are there more trolls than usual coming out the woodwork?

-AmicusC

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 5:28 PM  

When God's name is profaned, it hurts the Elect.

2Pe 2:6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

Blogger JartStar July 02, 2015 5:28 PM  

The Episcopal Church and the PCUSA will effectively be gone as a denominations within 80 years or less at the current rates of decline.

Anonymous Steve July 02, 2015 5:30 PM  

Tiny Tim - There's definitely an agenda. It was spooky how the entire Western media (the English speaking portion anyway) used the last Winter Olympics as a propaganda exercise to ridicule the Russians. Then, when MH17 crashed, the media was reporting as fact that the Russians did it - before the wreckage had even cooled. Weirdly, MH17 soon stopped being a major news story and is now rarely mentioned in the MSM.

I haven't seen such blatant rabble rousing since the outrageous lies we were told about Kosovo in 1999 - even the second Iraq war had more media opposition.

Blogger Rabbi B July 02, 2015 5:34 PM  

@Tom Joad,

Oh., look . . . you can read all about yourself, right in the Bible . . .

" . . . having a form of godliness but denying its power . . . . the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth."

Anonymous BigGaySteve July 02, 2015 5:37 PM  

Leftists and logic: Trump trumps Lemon
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/07/02/donald-trump-delivers-a-cnn-brain-hurt-whos-doing-the-raping-don/

I thought the episcopal church was where catholic priests went when they wanted to be openly gay.

Tiny Tim - the Russian homophobe meme is just bullshit.

The Russian law they cry about doesn't affect consenting adults that avoid having sex in public. The videos everyone cried about where of guys that showed up at a home looking to have sex with a 14yo boy for the price equivalent of a carton of cigs.

And the Mormon sellout begins

Not sure about that maybe they are just helping the homeless boys that cant get women because some guys hog up 51 wives.

"In an historic show of common purpose and unity, continuing a civil and respectful dialog between the LGBTQ Community and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Church has, for the first time, made a contribution to a Utah Pride Center program. The contribution will be used by the Pride Center for its homeless and low-income youth program."

Of course the dirty old men who run the gay youth outreach have people saying they should reject the money.
"Ken Constant So they caused a lot of the youth homelessness with their anti gay policies and are now buying their way out of guilt."
"Toni Palmer I say Fuck the church (I Am a former member and Queer)! Refuse their donation, it's a P.R. Stunt."
"! I had never realized our community was so easy to buy off! I will pony up $250 towards it, if they give the contribution back."
another jaimie "Jaime Booz This is blood money. We can use it to take care f the youth that get kicked out if their homes "

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:38 PM  

The math is simple:

1. We have 8 billion people on earth at this time.

2. Bill Gates and his ilk believe our population should be below $500MM (if you even believe it is that high).

3. It is time to cull the herd. It will require nuclear, chemical and biological war to achieve that goal.

4. We are on Russia's border, threatening them, and boxing Putin into a corner - for what? Ukraine? What a joke.

5. Now NATO is bringing up the oppression of gays by Putin while we celebrate our new found love for gays and transgenders (which by the way could have only happened with women being given the vote and positions of power).

This is all strategy with the end game being our death and destruction. Even the gays will be killed by nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. In much the same strategy as Hitler killed the SA.

The gays are the current "useless idiots du jour". Nothing more. And they all think they are "belle of the ball".


Blogger jay c July 02, 2015 5:39 PM  

God will forgive you for rejecting the commandments of Jesus.

"I and my father are one. If you've seen me, then you've seen the father....If you love me, obey my commands."

You've neither seen him nor loved him.

Blogger Danby July 02, 2015 5:39 PM  

TEC is already gone. It's basically a property-tax-free real estate holding company at this point.
They have a huge endowment, largely created by wealthy industialists of the robber baron class. They've been eating their seed corn for decades now.

TEC saw the great success the Unitarians had by becoming the SJW, neo-pagan and Atheist Church, they had to try to move into that market. Given the current trends, in 80 years, they will consist entirely of lesbian bishops living at Trinity Wall Street off of the last of the endowment. It's not like Gays will actually donate real money to a church.

Anonymous Shutup, Tad July 02, 2015 5:40 PM  

70 Tom Joad

It's meaningful to those who will now be able to enter into matrimony, not just legally but spiritually.

I really doubt that is what any of it is about. Besides, it is no more spiritual matrimony than it was before homosexuals began living together without a piece of paper. All the ones I have heard talk about it make their emphasis on protecting property, not spiritual motives.

You are just blathering meaningless drivel like Tad. Is Tad running an online course or something?

Blogger Rantor July 02, 2015 5:45 PM  

Someone slighted the PCA above. Need to set record straight, Presbyterian Church of America allows no woman to serve as pastor, elder, or deacon, nor do they celebrate homosexuality in any way. PCUSA are the apostate ones.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 5:45 PM  

God will forgive you for rejecting the commandments of Jesus.

And for that, we are eternally thankful to Him.

But the particular commandments are not the ones you think.

Anonymous Roundtine July 02, 2015 5:50 PM  

They have to allow 3 people to get married because the Trinity.

Anonymous DNW July 02, 2015 5:53 PM  


Why was this filed under "Christianity"? hehe

Blogger Danby July 02, 2015 5:55 PM  

My wife, who was raised in TEC, said "Have they made being in a gay marriage a requirement for bishops yet?

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 5:58 PM  

So when do all the lawsuits start for these preachers in these church's who think it is now moral to screw the 13 year old boy who came to them for counseling?

The lowering of the age of consent is next.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:00 PM  

people are expecting the United Methodist Church to do the same.. but they should prepare to be disappointed. Unlike these other churches the UMC is international.. and about 40% of its voting delegates for general conference are from asia and africa... and they are all hardline against this rainbow bullshit.

The last three general conferences the church has actually moved further to the right... not left... and it is going to happen again.

Expect to see the UMC pass mandatory punishments for any ministers that perform gay weddings.

Blogger Groot July 02, 2015 6:02 PM  

Some numbers:

"While the Episcopal Church has established a continued pattern of steady decline since the early 2000s, the unbroken trend is relatively recent: the church lost only 18,000 members in the 1990s, a plateau that dropped off about the time Gene Robinson of New Hampshire was consecrated the church’s first openly partnered gay bishop. Overall, the church has declined from a high of 3.6 million members in the mid-1960s to 1.8 million today, even as the U.S. population has more than doubled. The church has lost a quarter of its attendance since 2003."

Blogger Cecil Henry July 02, 2015 6:02 PM  

AS I keep telling my family regarding our increasingly 'progressive' Presbyterian church.

'Some churches serve (worship) God. Some churches serve (worship) people.

This church serves people.'

The smile of agreement on their faces --and then cognitive dissonance is revealing to say the least.
They're not awake yet.

Blogger ICG July 02, 2015 6:04 PM  

Fortunately, the mainstream ECUSA isn' the only Episcopal/Anglican option. Here's the ACNA's statement on the ruling:

http://anglicanchurch.net/?/main/page/1060

Anonymous DT July 02, 2015 6:05 PM  

Do you see what happens Larry?

DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS LARRY?

This is what happens when you **** a stranger in the ***!


Wow. Walter Sobchak was right all along.

Blogger Rabbi B July 02, 2015 6:06 PM  

"They have to allow 3 people to get married because the Trinity."

Weeeelllllll . . . (Trigger Warning)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/three-women-married-each-other-3453009

http://www.westernjournalism.com/three-lesbian-women-massachusetts-marry/

http://nypost.com/2015/02/27/thai-throuple-believed-to-be-worlds-first-gay-married-trio/

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:06 PM  

Now that longer extensions are available, .net has become obsolete.

Now it's .DotComAndDotOrgWereAlreadyTaken

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:06 PM  

Nate, then explain how the Methodist's elected Hillary woman of the year? Or Joycelyn elders woman of the year (after her controversial stand on teaching 5 year olds how to masterbate).

Your logic is incongruent with their actual prior positions (Hillary and Joycelyn) on abortion, masturbation, etc. and the purveyors of this filth.

The Methodist Church will cave, if for no other reason than to keep their tax exempt status (when that is threatened here shortly unless they support gay marriage).

They will cave as sure as I am typing.

I grew up a Methodist (which was dead when I was there) and quit when they picked Joycelyn Elders to honor.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:06 PM  

"The lowering of the age of consent is next."

There are two different groups with two different end goals. One group is the one you're talking about that will (and in fact already is) pushing for pederasty to be legalized.

The other is the group that never gave a damn about marriage at all... they were just pushing this whole gay marriage thing as a way to use 501c to destroy the church.

Blogger ICG July 02, 2015 6:07 PM  

"people are expecting the United Methodist Church to do the same.. but they should prepare to be disappointed."

We'll see. The UMC isn't quite as weak as ECUSA, PCUSA, etc., but they're close.

Blogger ICG July 02, 2015 6:09 PM  

"The other is the group that never gave a damn about marriage at all... they were just pushing this whole gay marriage thing as a way to use 501c to destroy the church."

I agree with you there. These are the so-called progressives. Many aren't gay and deep down couldn't care less about gay agendas, either...except to further their cause.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:12 PM  

And some just vomit blasphemies from their throats like it was as natural as breathing to them.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:12 PM  

Nate, I just did a little research on where the Methodist Church stands on abortion. You have to read between the lines as their position is ambiguous but by all measures I would say they support abortion.

And you think they are going to make a stand against gay marriage? And you think they will take this stand because of the opinion of some third world savages?

They will be pressured and will buckle, the second their tax exempt status is threatened.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:14 PM  

"Nate, then explain how the Methodist's elected Hillary woman of the year? Or Joycelyn elders woman of the year (after her controversial stand on teaching 5 year olds how to masterbate)."

Because like so many others... you don't understand how the UMC works. What you're talking about are the actions of committees and organizations within and without of the UMC. For example... the UMC Women are actually not part of the United Methodist Church. The actions you're talking about are actions taken by them... not the Church.

The discipline is controlled by The General Conference... not some little committee or interest group here or there attempting to speak for the whole UMC.

There is a real problem with liberals in the american UMC... but the rest of the world the church is very conservative and in the UMC... the rest of the world actually gets a say.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:15 PM  

What I expect is the eventual disappearance of denominations from among the Elect, and the emergence of a revolutionary, new kind of a creature: A Christian.

Anonymous DT July 02, 2015 6:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:17 PM  

to be specific...the UMC Women actually voted to seperate themselves from the Church specifically because the General Conference was voting to reign them in and shut them down on a number of these stupid issues. Rather than accepting their cumupence... they voted to take their ball and go home. So now there is no representation of the UMC Women organization at the General Conference at all. They have to fight to get delegates elected threw other means. They really just ended up throwing a fit and silencing themselves. All they can actually do is have press releases about this or that. They have no power. They have no say.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:17 PM  

From the UMC's own position paper on abortion:

"Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.

But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother and the unborn child.

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184)."

They only take a firm position on abortion being used for gender selection. They are tough on that one. It is verboten.

I just don't see the UMC drawing a line in the sand that isn't continually shifting until it disappears altogether.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:20 PM  

I am reluctant to approve the murdering of innocent human beings, but I am equally bound to respect the desire of women to murder innocent human beings if they inconvenience them.

No, that didn't come out right.

Blogger aut0062matthew July 02, 2015 6:21 PM  

"Taylor137" is Tad, as y'all should have been able to tell from the very first comment.

Destruction ensues.

Blogger bob k. mando July 02, 2015 6:21 PM  

83. Shutup, Tad July 02, 2015 5:40 PM
Is Tad running an online course or something?



Tom Joad
"Tom Joad" - "om Jo" == Tad

coincidence? i think not!


77. Steve July 02, 2015 5:30 PM
Weirdly, MH17 soon stopped being a major news story and is now rarely mentioned in the MSM.



as i pointed out at the time, even if separatists/Russians are proven to have launched the missile, Ukrainian ATC is without a doubt criminally negligible to almost certain to have tried to create this event.

the Buk SA-11 is the only SAM in the area that can even reach airliner altitude. the Buk is operated by both sides in the conflict.

the Buk only has an operational radius of 19 miles and a max altitude of 46k feet..

WHY did Uke ATC order the flight to descend to minimum flight rules over the hot war zone where Uke aircraft had previously been shot down?

WHY did Uke ATC route MH17 significantly north, rather than over the Black Sea as all previous flights had routed?

note that the flight was west-to-east. wiki says sat data indicates a launch site 12 miles *south* of the flight path ... and as previously noted, this SAM only has a range of 19 miles.

it is clear, Uke ATC put that aircraft over the center of a combat zone because they wanted it downed.

whether the Russians fired the missile or not is almost irrelevant.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:21 PM  

Also, tadpoles always grow into toads.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:22 PM  

Nate, I hope you are right. It would be nice to see the UMC stand tall. I had given up on them long ago. And when I did attend the UMC this last Christmas and the lady pastor was so medicated she was talking crazy, it affirmed my prior assumptions.

Maybe I jumped the gun.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:25 PM  

Tom Joad = Jom Toad.

Coincidence?

I

THINK

NOT!

Blogger Chiva July 02, 2015 6:28 PM  

Grace is not earned by man, but granted by Jesus's supreme act of salvation.

For by grace you have been saved through faith - Ephesians 2:8

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:28 PM  

Tim... You cut out some very important stuff... like this:

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184).

"We oppose the use of late-term abortion known as dilation and extraction (partial-birth abortion) and call for the end of this practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. This procedure shall be performed only by certified medical providers. Before providing their services, abortion providers should be required to offer women the option of anesthesia."

in fact the only time the UMC is not against abortion is in the case of the life of the mother... which is an act of self defense anyway.

Blogger bob k. mando July 02, 2015 6:31 PM  

116. Markku July 02, 2015 6:25 PM
Tom Joad = Jom Toad.



ruh roh. somebody told Markku about Spoonerisms.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:31 PM  

I note Tim you did not quote the UMC Book Of Discipline on homosexuality.

Allow me:

304.3 - The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.

OpenID peoplegrowing July 02, 2015 6:32 PM  

The best evidence for the truth of the Bible is that the vast majorities of the teachings in the bible make sense if your concern is creating a world in which human beings can prosper. One of the few exceptions to that is the various and strangely out of contexts prohibitions on women doing various things. This makes them very suspect as being the revealed WORD.


Prosperity Gospel drivel.

This 'interpretation' of Christianity is worldly and materialistic in its focus. Hence, wrong.


I agree with the assessment of prosperity Gospel as drivel, and it certainly seems Taylor is of that branch. But I do think it's important to bear in mind that the Bible does, among other and more important things, give excellent advice on the best way to live, which is likely to bring far more lasting joy than seeking after the things of the world. The problem is not that Taylor acknowledges the Bible as giving good advice for a prosperous life (where prosperous is meant to reflect spiritual and mental health, not material possessions), but that she picks and chooses what she thinks is good.

It is like a child that acknowledges a parent's authority when they agree, but believes that parent clearly wrong when they disagree. Taylor lacks the faith to see that if so much of the other advice/regulation in the Bible is good and useful, then maybe the less exciting, more "backwards" parts are good and valuable as well. As a woman, the best possible testimony I could see was women joyfully living out Biblical roles. I thought, if women were so peaceful and joyful living in what the world would call "oppression", maybe there was something to all that Jesus nonsense after all. This is not prosperity Gospel, but Fruit of the Spirit.

Calling into question the authority of the Word of God because it doesn't match up with your inclinations is a foolishness beyond comprehension. Test the spirits to know that they are of God, read through the whole Bible with proper understanding of each book, and you will find that it all builds together.

Blogger Rantor July 02, 2015 6:33 PM  

I learned from a friend last week that there is a church security coalition in our area, has been for years, and the conservative baptist, Presbyterian, and Bible churches (Dallas Theological Seminary I think) are members and have many have armed (concealed carry) security. Something I imagine the more liberal churches would react negatively to.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:37 PM  

"We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184)."

They state they will not "affirm" abortion as an acceptable means of birth control. They also state they "unconditionally" reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics.

Withholding affirmation the last time I checked is not unconditional rejection of anything. That is a very weak stand if they are truly against abortion for the purposes of birth control.

I think they need to rewrite this section to state they unconditionally reject abortion as a means of birth control...

if that is what they really mean to convey to those reading their position.

They do say they "oppose" late term abortion. Again, if they "oppose" abortion as a means of birth control they need to state it that way.

They do not.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) July 02, 2015 6:42 PM  

I'm game to hear more. If I'm mistaken in my view, even to the point you think I may not be a Christian, I'm willing to listen. My view is that I simply don't care to waste time thinking about others sin. It's irrelevant to me. I asked my question earnestly.

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
(1 Cor 5:9-13)

It is relevant to you, because a Christian is not just an individual, but a part of the Christian body - one under attack by many spiritual viruses and diseases.

Resist them all, that we can give a good report to our Master.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:47 PM  

Son: "Dad, I am thinking about trying out homosexual activities this weekend".

Dad: "Son, I cannot affirm your having sex with other men this weekend".

Come on Nate, this is folly. The correct response is not "I cannot affirm".

You, of all people, know this is double speak.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:48 PM  

"Son, I cannot affirm your having sex with other men this weekend".

No no no! You got it all wrong. You are reluctant to affirm.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:54 PM  

" Something I imagine the more liberal churches would react negatively to. "

weird... our armed security is our congregation.

Anonymous Steve July 02, 2015 6:56 PM  

Markku = 6 letters.

Finland independence day = 6th December

Castalia House = 6 consonants!

A question: what do we really know about this Markku character, anyway?

I looked up Finland on Wikipedia. It's a country that borders Russia. That, in itself, is suspicious. Their capital is called "Helsinki". Hell. Sinki. Think on that.

On the very same day Finland declared independence, the largest man-made explosion in recorded history - until the atomic bomb was invented - happened in Nova Scotia, devastating the peace-loving town of Halifax. Coinkydink? I think not.

Could this Suomic supervillain be hiding in plain sight, revelling in... the Markku (mark of) The Beast?

Wake up, sheeple!

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:56 PM  

"Come on Nate, this is folly. The correct response is not "I cannot affirm". "

Tim... no offense mate but you obviously don't understand what you're reading. What this says... and how it is enforced... is gays cannot be ministers or serve in any way shape or form in the UMC. They can attend. They can join if they repent. They cannot teach or lead in anyway.

Blogger bob k. mando July 02, 2015 6:57 PM  

125. Markku July 02, 2015 6:48 PM
You are reluctant to affirm.


i are confuzled.

is the father in this situation asking for a Viagra?

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 6:57 PM  

Hell. Sinki. Think on that.

Actually it's pronounced Hell Sing Key.

Uh, I mean, nothing...

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 6:57 PM  

To put it another way... the word "affirm" doesn't mean what you think it means. "affirm" is used in a specific way in the church documents. its the process of granting leadership.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 6:59 PM  

"I cannot affirm"... and by inference "neither do I condemn nor reject, I only refuse to state my active support"...

I see that as "wink, wink, nod, nod"...

Maybe I am wrong.


Blogger Corvinus July 02, 2015 7:05 PM  

Some numbers:

"While the Episcopal Church has established a continued pattern of steady decline since the early 2000s, the unbroken trend is relatively recent: the church lost only 18,000 members in the 1990s, a plateau that dropped off about the time Gene Robinson of New Hampshire was consecrated the church’s first openly partnered gay bishop. Overall, the church has declined from a high of 3.6 million members in the mid-1960s to 1.8 million today, even as the U.S. population has more than doubled. The church has lost a quarter of its attendance since 2003."


@Groot
According to teh Wikipedia, the United Church of Christ has gone from over 2 million members in nearly 7,000 churches in 1957 to 979,239 members and 5,154 churches in 2014, and the Presbyterian Church USA has gone from 3.10 million members in 1984 to 1.67 million in 2014.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:05 PM  

Yes, the way I react to that is, well, it could be worse, considering.

But on the other hand I think, do these people really believe that abortion takes the life of an innocent human being? Because if they did, would someone really be so tone-deaf as to actually say something like "we are reluctant to approve the murder of an innocent human being?"

I mean, sure, I understand corporate-speak. But does the Body of Christ REALLY talk this way? Can I picture Peter the Apostle saying those words, under any circumstances? No.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 7:09 PM  

"We cannot affirm Herr Hitler's gassing of the Jews".

Seriously...

PRESS: "Mr. President, what do you think of ISIS beheading Christians in Syria?"

OBAMA: "My administration cannot affirm the beheading of Christians by ISIS".

It depends on the what the definition of "is" is... I guess.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:11 PM  

Yeah, because he'd like more of them crucified.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 7:14 PM  

".. and by inference "neither do I condemn nor reject, I only refuse to state my active support"...

I see that as "wink, wink, nod, nod"...

Maybe I am wrong."

Look at the rest of the text. Everything in it relates to life vs life circumstances. In practice... and in doctrine... the UMC only supports abortion in the case when the mother is going to die otherwise... or there is no way to save the baby regardless.

It has nothing to do with winks and nods. You've chosen one word out of a two paragraphs. Pretty shitty way to build a case.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 7:18 PM  

Absolutely Markku.

Moloch requires blood sacrifice and the accolytes of Allah (Lucifer) are more than happy to comply.

I note many inferences to islam now drop the name Allah and are using god (with a big G). This is interesting and not by accident.

Satan is coopting Christianity on every front.

The blood of innocents, especially the unborn, is the sweetest.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2015 7:20 PM  

Nate, in law one word makes all the difference, all day long, every day.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:21 PM  

Again I want to bring up the word reluctant because I think that's the bigger whopper.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:22 PM  

That means that I should probably affirm it, but, gee I dunno, murder is kinda iffy.

Blogger SirHamster (#201) July 02, 2015 7:22 PM  

The blood of innocents, especially the unborn, is the sweetest.

Babies taste best.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 7:23 PM  

I would ask you to compare the UMC's position on Abortion to an actual liberal church's position:

"The United Church of Christ has affirmed and re-affirmed since 1971 that access to safe and legal abortion is consistent with a woman’s right to follow the dictates of her own faith and beliefs in determining when and if she should have children..."

or the ECLA...

"The church recognizes that there can be sound reasons for ending a pregnancy through induced abortion. These are the threat to a woman's physical life; when pregnancy has resulted from rape, incest or sexual violence; and fetal abnormalities incompatible with life.[59] The church opposes legal restrictions on abortion and provides health-care benefits to its employees that cover elective abortions. Some hospitals affiliated with the church perform elective abortions.[60]"

"The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) believes that the choice to receive an elective abortion can be "morally acceptable;" "

There is a giant difference between the UMC position and the positions of these "churches".

Blogger Nate July 02, 2015 7:25 PM  

"Nate, in law one word makes all the difference, all day long, every day."

Horse. Shit.

Pretending that the UMC is anything other than on your side on the abortion issue makes you exactly like the moderates complaining that republicans should watch their tone.

Crazy thought... shoot at the enemy... not the guys standing beside you.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:28 PM  

And for balance, I want to stress again that "it could be worse, considering."

But what I really want is a congregation that I can be proud of, in the particular sense in which one is, for example, proud of his children. One where I can bring an atheist friend and not have the fear of what embarrassing things are going to be said as the foremost thought in my mind.

Could I have that, please?

(Shut up Catholics. No. Never.)

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:29 PM  

(Shut up Mormons. No. Never.)

Anonymous Tom Joad July 02, 2015 7:34 PM  

Strange. I left a comment. People responded to the comment. But the comment no longer appears here — without any indication that it was deleted.

Too much truth for Vox?

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:36 PM  

What ho? Strange tidings and ominous portents, Tom!

Blogger papabear July 02, 2015 7:43 PM  

Markku: Orthodoxy?

Anonymous BGS July 02, 2015 7:45 PM  

Expect to see the UMC pass mandatory punishments for any ministers that perform gay weddings.

I would advise against spanking, as that might encourage them.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:49 PM  

I'm not looking for another denomination. I have a relatively positive impression of Orthodoxy - considering - but that's the most that I can say.

I don't think it will happen, except rarely at isolated locations (and those are due to the particular men in charge) until persecution begins in earnest and the Church is driven underground.

I'm just expressing my exasperation of the current situation, not looking for advice as to denominations. And yes, in all truth, I do enjoy the comfort of having a roof on my head, clothes on my back, and food on my table. Just for full disclosure.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 7:55 PM  

And my anus unmolested, and my body uncrucified. I enjoy those too.

Blogger Groot July 02, 2015 7:57 PM  

Nate, you are totally not allowing Tiny Tim his feelings, and it's triggering me. He's getting a good steam building in his tip-toeing through your tulips, and bang! Whoops, my use of the word "trigger" has triggered me.

Anonymous Discard July 02, 2015 8:01 PM  

Nate: The United Methodist Church, regardless of the Book of Discipline, has homosexual ministers and ministeresses. The higher ups know this. Soon, the American UMC will most likely be looking to dump the African and Oriental branches of the church, so they can officially bow down to Satan.
Your loyalty to the UMC is like the loyalty of many conservatives to the U.S. government, it is misplaced. The UMC, like the U.S. government, is not loyal to you.

Anonymous Godfrey July 02, 2015 8:04 PM  

Hell... I didn't even know the Episcopal Church was still around.

Anonymous kfg July 02, 2015 8:25 PM  

@Tiny Tim:

God is a pagan Germanic word.

Blogger Michael Maier July 02, 2015 8:25 PM  

My grandfather helped found the Episcopal Church in Bedford, MA. I didn't know about that until after he passed. And a dykeheadpriestesscarpetmuncher officiated at his memorial. I really felt like having a Jesus / moneylenders moment, but both of my grandparents had approved of that mockery while they were here, so the rot had set in long before. The grounds aren't even worth my spit.

I remember thinking the gayness was messed up and my grandparents were liberal idiots, long before I came to Jesus. For everyone's sakes, we're lucky Jesus is far more forgiving than I'd ever be.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 8:34 PM  

dykeheadpriestesscarpetmuncher officiated at his memorial.

The Abomination That Makes Desolate is not the only abomination of that nature.

Satan recycles.

Blogger ScuzzaMan July 02, 2015 8:35 PM  

Markku;

I hear you. I believe that day is not far away. But what I fear is that many believers have no idea of the time or the season. Christ was explicit and emphatic that he expected his people to know in what season we're living.

My mother expressed her disappointment in her church one day, and she asked me why I wasn't disappointed in them. "I never had any faith in them to begin with, so they could never disappoint me. My faith is in God, and God alone."

This is what forever separates me from most of my fellow believers, in my own church, in the Catholic church perhaps more obviously but no more emphatically. I'm looking for a far more primitive worship, and I dont expect to find it until a clear line has been drawn between those who obey men and those who obey God.

I see the beginnings of that in these things (the murder of the unborn, the perversion of marriage, the many churches who celebrate war), and I recall that Christ implies that the last moves will be rapid, as he promises to cut short those days in mercy.

I dont have a clear sense of our host's eschatalogical leanings, but when he talks about saving western civilisation I hear a voice saying, this is the last cycle. We now have a global hegemon that seeks to establish its perverse monoculture (another attribute of the Noahic world) everywhere, without exception, and is becoming bolder and more ruthless in persecuting dissenters. It proclaims itself as the sole remaining superpower and I hear "who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

Christians forget that the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, which speaks directly to this question, contains no reference to unbelievers. It's about the state of the church, the negligence of believers. Ironically, we're running out of oil.

Anonymous zen0 July 02, 2015 8:37 PM  

147. Tom Joad July 02, 2015 7:34 PM

Strange. I left a comment. People responded to the comment. But the comment no longer appears here — without any indication that it was deleted.

Too much truth for Vox?


I don't think "too much truth" is listed in the blog rules.

After perusing the 29 rules, I can confidently state that no, that can't be it.

Put your thinking cap on.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 8:38 PM  

Yes, we have cried wolf on escathology way, WAY too many times.

Woe is us.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 8:40 PM  

And one must remember that in the story, the wolf DOES come.

Blogger Random July 02, 2015 8:42 PM  

"(Shut up Catholics. No. Never.)"

Fine. We will remember you refused our prayers for your poor, tormented soul.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 8:43 PM  

What part, and so forth.

Blogger Random July 02, 2015 8:44 PM  

But we won't ever quit. No, never.

Anonymous Viidad July 02, 2015 8:48 PM  

@Markku

You're killing it today. You speak truth.

Anonymous Viidad July 02, 2015 8:51 PM  

Tiny Tim makes a good point on the UMC. It really is a pussified statement. Why not just say "abortion is murder and murder is prohibited by God."

"I am reluctant to approve of anything that may be construed as perhaps the taking of a life... though yes, there are some tough decisions you may be going through..."

Meh.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 8:56 PM  

I like how Greg Koukl phrases it, "abortion is the taking of innocent human life". Because although "murder" is true in the overwhelming majority of situations, then as a general, 100% accurate definition it can be gainsayed by the few where it is not. "Murder" is the taking of human life for unjustifiable reasons in a deliberate way.

Abortion can be slaying in rare circumstances, and not murder. Namely, where the options are both the mother and the baby dying, and the mother surviving and the baby dying.

But the fact remains, the overwhelming majority is murder. So, to say "reluctant to approve" REALLY rubs me the wrong way.

Anonymous Viidad July 02, 2015 9:02 PM  

"I find the mass killing of Jews somewhat troubling..."

Blogger Eric July 02, 2015 9:02 PM  

Wow, what a coincidence that they just happened to discover that the Bible secretly supports gay marriage within a week of discovering that the constitutions secretly supports gay marriage?

Also not coincidentally the same week the SJW rumblings started in favor of stripping tax exempt status from churches that refuse to perform gay weddings.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 9:04 PM  

I have salt here. But what wonder? What marvel? It has no taste!

What should I do with it?

Blogger Groot July 02, 2015 9:07 PM  

At least Tom Joad is writing about something other than his monomania. I'm sure the post that disappeared was about his obsession, but, hey.

Blogger Doom July 02, 2015 9:11 PM  

The Episcopalian church, through it's roots in the Church of England, has never been a Christian church. Any church who, through it's roots, is based on a church which bases it's high priest, or priestess, on bloodlines which lead to a crown, disregarding the sex of the wearer, is outside Christianity. Queen Elizabeth, actually, was the first female faux church matriarch. Just by being so, she axed any connection to Christianity that whole line of churches might ever have carried. Though, really, her father did that by the way he did his own things. Still, Elizabeth was icing on the cake.

Anonymous MendoScot July 02, 2015 9:14 PM  

Abort it, Markku.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 02, 2015 9:20 PM  

Markku, Nate, tinytim,
The way I see it no church on Earth will ever be as Markku said, a non-embarrasment. They are all filled with humans. Who are miserable, flawed, broken sinners.
It is part of the reason I am not yet baptised into any denomination, and so far, I remain skeptical I would be ever baptised INTO any specific denomination. Luckily baptism is a relatively simple thing that anyone can do...I am just being a little particular about it.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 9:21 PM  

The way I see it no church on Earth will ever be as Markku said, a non-embarrasment. They are all filled with humans. Who are miserable, flawed, broken sinners.

I think the current state goes beyond than what is just expected human brokenness.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 9:23 PM  

Ok, take this thought experiment. Imagine taking your atheist friend to a random pastor at random congregation.

Then, imagine taking him to Beau.

Did you imagine a fundamental difference between the expected, probable outcome?

Anonymous Giuseppe July 02, 2015 9:28 PM  

I think the current state goes beyond than what is just expected human brokenness.

That's just because you are a rose-tinted optimist Markku. (heh) I have no such illusion about humans.

Anonymous Giuseppe July 02, 2015 9:30 PM  

Markku,
on Beau, agreed. Another is Rabbi B. I recently had occasion to verify this for myself. That man is humble, but he is LEARNED. A true Rabbi.

Anonymous The other robot July 02, 2015 9:41 PM  

BP paying a lot of money for a woman who could not do the job but then they should have been more careful about where they employed her. Making sandwiches was probably the limit of her abilities.

Blogger Mike Farnsworth July 02, 2015 9:41 PM  

"(Shut up Mormons. No. Never.)"

Fine. We will remember you refused our prayers for your poor, tormented soul. And we won't share any of our jello or cheesy potatoes either.

(With apologies to @Random)

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 9:43 PM  

The Two That Won't Shut Up, have agreed to shut up. This is indeed a day of many miracles. Perhaps I should be expecting the trumpets too?

Blogger Tommy Hass July 02, 2015 9:44 PM  

Why don't you just behead them?

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 9:47 PM  

I can see how that solution might occur to you, Tommy. But alas, Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all.

Blogger Groot July 02, 2015 9:50 PM  

At least Tom Joad is writing about something other than his monomania. I'm sure the post that disappeared was about his obsession, but, hey.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 02, 2015 9:56 PM  

"I can see how that solution might occur to you, Tommy."

:D

Seriously, your disgust reflexes are too weak and your stomachs too strong.

Btw, what about past inquisitors? Were they apostates? They would've dealt with these heretics in a more cruel manner than I suggested.

How far does blasphemy or heresy have to go until you guys have to take action? (like imprisoning them)

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:04 PM  

Yes, my opinion is that they were breaking God's commandments. I can't say if they were or weren't apostates because that word assumes they were Christians at some point.

When the Apostles killed, they did it by asking the Holy Spirit to do it. Otherwise the Bible has one prescription for gross and unrepentant immorality: ceasing to associate with them, also known as shunning.

Anonymous Tom Joad July 02, 2015 10:08 PM  

So, what? Butt hurt? Was that what got my comment sent into the bowels — pardon me — of VD's censorship?

Really?

Judging from other comments on this blog, perhaps I should have said anal hurt, or linked it more explicitly to gay sex (or homo sex as y'all so charmingly refer to it).

Other than that, I seriously have no idea why the comment would have not only been deleted but (butt) erased from all existence, unlike other comments that were deleted but (butt) at least allowed to show some sign that they had once been made.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:16 PM  

But do I have a base, carnal impulse to imagine what you are imagining, Tommy? Yes. Yes I do. But the text says what it says. I have to either defer to it, or else conclude it's untrue in its entirety.

Anonymous Soga July 02, 2015 10:26 PM  

Tom Joad seems to think that defecating on someone's carpet and having it cleaned up is censorship.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:32 PM  

Also, the concept of loving your enemies has been so utterly perverted that you'd quite legitimately imagine a smiley glad-hand, hiding his fear and cowardice behind a plastered-on smile.

But, the thing is, it's still commanded by Jesus. And when you see the genuine article, as rare as it is, I think you'd recognize it as alien to how human nature is, barring supernatural influence, that you would find it convincing indeed.

Blogger ICG July 02, 2015 10:37 PM  

The Episcopalian church, through it's roots in the Church of England, has never been a Christian church. Any church who, through it's roots, is based on a church which bases it's high priest, or priestess, on bloodlines which lead to a crown, disregarding the sex of the wearer, is outside Christianity. Queen Elizabeth, actually, was the first female faux church matriarch. Just by being so, she axed any connection to Christianity that whole line of churches might ever have carried. Though, really, her father did that by the way he did his own things. Still, Elizabeth was icing on the cake."

This is bunk. Your grammar is as poor as your knowlege of continuing Anglicans.

Anonymous Viidad July 02, 2015 10:40 PM  

Tommy Hass: "Why don't you just behead them?"

This gets my vote for thread winner. I laughed.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 02, 2015 10:41 PM  

My wife grew up UMC. Ibacame a Christian in 1985. Around 1988, my wife and I were in a position to be part of the founding of an UMC church in Atascocita, Tx. In a Q&A meeting the issue of abortion and alcohol came up. UMC wss OK with abortion, against drinking. There were other issues we were witnesses to. We did not stay.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:44 PM  

against drinking

It's these little, petty evils that act as the cherry on top, that's the mark of true, Satan-grade evil instead of just banal, boring evil.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 02, 2015 10:45 PM  

I have read about various great men vowing to avenge their betrayed enemies/mourning them before (Alexander/Darius, Caesar/Pompeius, Mao/Chiang), but it's probably not what is talked about here.

Glad I'm not the only one with that impulse, haha.

Btw, has the Old Testament been abrogated entirely? Jesus has said something about restoring the Law rather than abolishing it, so it's not that likely.

Blogger Corvinus July 02, 2015 10:45 PM  

(Shut up Catholics. No. Never.)

@Markku
(shrug)

The Episcopalian church, through it's roots in the Church of England, has never been a Christian church. Any church who, through it's roots, is based on a church which bases it's high priest, or priestess, on bloodlines which lead to a crown, disregarding the sex of the wearer, is outside Christianity.

@ICG
Don't forget that it's also based on 1) a king demanding!!! a divorce, and 2) a pack of oligarchs slavering at seizing the Church's lands (i.e., medieval social security).

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:47 PM  

The Mosaic Law didn't apply to goyim even at the time, so the point is kinda moot for everyone else than perhaps Rabbi B here.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2015 10:50 PM  

Now, if Rabbi B chooses to get his hands dirty, then I'm sure we can arrange to spend our time harrumphing and why-I-never'ing about it, instead of, you know, stopping him.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 02, 2015 10:56 PM  

I expect the UMC to accept the gay stuff. There will be individual UMC churches that will defy. But, in the UMC the UMC owns the property and not the local congregation.
For what is worth, my wife's family, for yhe most part, are still in the UMC. My wedding was officiated by the UMC pastor that also officiated her aunts" weddings and even her mom and dad's wedding.
Nate, I am glad that your are hopeful. I pray that it goes as you hope.

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