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Monday, August 17, 2015

It's a start

Donald Trump continues to move the Republicans right on immigration:
Donald Trump would reverse President Obama's executive orders on immigration and deport all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. as president, he said in an exclusive interview with NBC's Chuck Todd.

"We're going to keep the families together, but they have to go," he said in the interview, which will air in full on NBC's "Meet the Press" this Sunday. Pressed on what he'd do if the immigrants in question had nowhere to return to, Trump reiterated: "They have to go. We will work with them. They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country, or we don't have a country," he said.
The ironic thing is that based on his immigration policies alone, Trump is less of a joke candidate than the so-called "serious" candidates. The only reason he has become such a story is because all of the other Republican candidates are so absurdly terrible on the issue of the 40-year invasion of the country.


Trump's actual announced policies:

Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:

1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.

2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.

3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.

And the big one: "End birthright citizenship." 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens if his support grows following this announcement, especially in light of his plan to require higher wages for H1B visa holders. But regardless, it is obvious that the romantic view of America as "the Melting Pot" is now dead. And notice that everything he is talking about could have been brought up by any of the other candidates, but wasn't.

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240 Comments:

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Anonymous JustCuckservativeThings August 17, 2015 4:52 AM  

The US can't deport illegal immigrants like Mexico and every other country in Latin America does, because that would be racist.

Mexicans are natural cuckservatives. Loco Luis and his esses are gonna roll up in their lowriders to vote Republican any day now. You'll see.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 5:14 AM  

His immigration plan is surprisingly sane.

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2015 5:21 AM  

> His immigration plan is surprisingly sane.

Agreed. Hopefully the other candidates are listening.

Anonymous Steve Brown VFM#0273 August 17, 2015 5:24 AM  

Good for Trump. They have got to go!

Anonymous Discard August 17, 2015 5:31 AM  

Once the dirty word is said, then everybody has to respond. Let's hear them all say how caring for wetbacks over citizens, our present policy, is the right thing to do.

Anonymous TroperA August 17, 2015 5:34 AM  

I looked up Australia's immigrations policies not too far back. Turns out, if you're from a first world country and you want to become a citizen there, you need to have an actual useful skill (like welding or skills in the medical field). I don't understand why this country doesn't have a similar requirement. The Neil Diamond "We Comin' To America!" golden age of romanticized immigration took place during a time when America had plenty of farms and factories. But nowadays, our farms ARE factories (where much of the work is done by machine) and our factories are located in the countries that immigrants are fleeing from. Nearly all of our job gains go to foreigners, many of whom snuck in by the back door.

We used to have a word for community leaders, businessmen and government officials who put the interests of foreigners over the interests of their own people: TRAITORS. And as I recall, the crime of treason had a pretty stiff penalty. One that involved ropes and lampposts.....

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly August 17, 2015 6:21 AM  

@ TroperA: Australia makes first world immigrants jump through hoops but we import hundreds of thousands of third world immigrants with bugger all screening.

Blogger Eric August 17, 2015 6:29 AM  

The problem with Trump is he's taking both sides of every issue. Two weeks ago he was talking about giving illegals a path to citizenship. He's both for and against abortion. He's for and against raising taxes. He's for and against everything - who the hell knows what he'd do if he were ever elected?

Blogger M Cephas August 17, 2015 6:34 AM  

Much of the media, the establishment candidates, presidential consultants, Hilary Clinton, and Rand Paul have all attacked Donald Trump.

It's pretty much them versus The United States of America.

Anonymous EH August 17, 2015 6:36 AM  

It's going to blow the mainstream pundits' little minds how big a jump in the polls this is going to give Trump. The likely Republican primary voters (of whom there are now are more than there were a month ago) are going to favor Trump by an absolute majority. The other candidates, Jeb in particular, have stated cuck positions on immigration and can't follow Trump's move.

It looks like Trump might have just won the election.

Blogger M Cephas August 17, 2015 6:40 AM  

"The problem with Trump is he's taking both sides of every issue. Two weeks ago he was talking about giving illegals a path to citizenship. He's both for and against abortion. He's for and against raising taxes. He's for and against everything - who the hell knows what he'd do if he were ever elected?"

Two weeks ago he did not consult with Jeff Sessions to lay out a plan for dealing with immigration. He also said he would deport the illegals, and maybe let the good ones come in legally after being deported, and a wall being built. But that was before he consulted Jeff Sessions.

He has not once in his campaign thus far said he was for abortion as far as I am aware, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 August 17, 2015 6:46 AM  

""We're going to keep the families together, but they have to go,"
But...but...that was MY policy in response to "reuniting (illegal alien) immigrant families.
"Anchor babies" leading the march to the well established "repatriation trains" (thanks NAFTA)!
CaptDMO

Anonymous Sam the Man August 17, 2015 6:58 AM  

good for Trump

He has my and the wife's vote

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 17, 2015 6:59 AM  

@ 11 "He has not once in his campaign thus far said he was for abortion as far as I am aware, so I'm not sure where you got that from."

He didn't say he was for abortion, but he did say he would continue to fund PP which is basically status quo and is effectively enabling that organization to continue performing abortions.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trump-hits-bush-women-health-gaffe-article-1.2322630

Blogger M Cephas August 17, 2015 7:09 AM  

"He didn't say he was for abortion, but he did say he would continue to fund PP which is basically status quo and is effectively enabling that organization to continue performing abortions."

He said as long as they continue to do abortions at all, they should be defunded.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/08/12/trump-on-pp-i-would-not-give-if-they-do-abortions-absolutely-defund-does-good-stuff/

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 17, 2015 7:10 AM  

@15 and thus I think the point was made that he has taken both sides of the issue.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 7:16 AM  

The problem with trump of course is.. Does he actually believe anybof this?

As we have pointed out repeatedly this is abguy who as recently as July of this year... Wanted to increase legal immigration.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 7:18 AM  

The problem with trump of course is.. Does he actually believe anybof this?

As we have pointed out repeatedly this is abguy who as recently as July of this year... Wanted to increase legal immigration.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 7:18 AM  

The problem with trump of course is.. Does he actually believe anybof this?

As we have pointed out repeatedly this is abguy who as recently as July of this year... Wanted to increase legal immigration.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2015 7:18 AM  

The most terrifying part of this election cycle has been finding myself agreeing with Donald Trump on a regular basis.

This map says it all

Birthright citizenship was needed a hundred years ago but it has long since served it's purpose. Time to retire it.

I've changed my mind about Trump. Not about voting for him. Good lord no! But he is in fact quite valuable to the fight.

He is (a) actually moving he needle on immigration. And (b) he is sucking all the air out of the media room. There is no ink to be spared for anyone else on the GOP ticket.

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 17, 2015 7:19 AM  

@ 17 I agree. He is saying most of the right things but I do not trust him at all. The more I see of him the more I am convinced he is following the Obama strategy. Say whatever he has to at the time to gain support. Then do as he pleases later on.

Anonymous jSinSaTx August 17, 2015 7:21 AM  

Trump may betray. But he has tied his name to this proposal. May mean no more than the Contract with America did, but he has put his name behind it. Trump may betray. However, you know the other ones will betray.

The abortion issue has been in the republican plank for my entire life. No movement. Multiple supreme court justices. No movement. It doeant matter what the view on abortion is. It is not going away regardless. This invasion has to be stopped. I doubt it will be, but it is good to see a big name wave the flag of nationalism.

Blogger Student in Blue August 17, 2015 7:25 AM  

I really, really wish the Repubs would sit up and take note that it's this immigration thing that's 70-80% of why Trump is so popular.

But they won't. They're *all* caught in their cuckservative delusion that if we all just toe the moderate line hard enough, everyone will like us. The other candidates and non-Trump supporters will just try to believe that it's only due to his brash personality, and that the only people who agree with Trump's policies are raaaaaacisssssss.

It's a damn shame.

Blogger M Cephas August 17, 2015 7:31 AM  

"@15 and thus I think the point was made that he has taken both sides of the issue."

That's not both sides of the issue. That's against abortion, since this campaign.

Blogger Mark Citadel August 17, 2015 7:35 AM  

I don't think the Trump-debacle ends with a more right wing GOP. It may end however with the destruction of the GOP which will be exposed, and this is a big positive. The sooner that right-oriented people come to the conclusion that one cannot live in peace with liberal neighbors, the better. It's now a matter of demographic survival.

Blogger M Cephas August 17, 2015 7:36 AM  

"But they won't. They're *all* caught in their cuckservative delusion that if we all just toe the moderate line hard enough, everyone will like us"

I believe some of them have financial interests involved as well. Corporate donors benefit from immigration. They are bought and paid for. It's not just a matter of all of them trying to be moderate.

Blogger Student in Blue August 17, 2015 7:39 AM  

@M Cephas
True enough.

Anonymous SugarPi August 17, 2015 7:49 AM  

Now if we could only believe what candidates say... and if only Hilary would go to jail...
what a wonderful world it would be.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 7:52 AM  

"But they won't. They're *all* caught in their cuckservative delusion that if we all just toe the moderate line hard enough, everyone will like us."

Ya know its really not cuckoldry... its stockholme syndrome.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2015 7:57 AM  

I really, really wish the Repubs would sit up and take note that it's this immigration thing that's 70-80% of why Trump is so popular.

You are correct. You would think Eric Cantor's being sent to the wall by his own constituency over immigration would have been a wakeup call but it wasn't. They pretended it didn't happen. They are trying very hard to bury their heads in the sand.

Or to be precise. The Chamber of Commerce Donor Class is ordering them to bury their heads in the sand.

Here is the thing about the Chamber of Commerce. They are all bad businessmen.

I didn't find this out until I had to start dealing with them. They are invariably a second or third generation descendant of the business founder. They don't have Grandpa's drive, talent or determination and their spreadsheets show it.

Consequently, they go to GOP politicians to demand special favors and privileges since it is impossible for them to compete or even survive in the coliseum of American business. They are all basically Democrats but the Democrats don't’ need them.

They are all feeling the pain right now. They are all on the look out for the next Silver Bullet that will kill all their problems. Right now that Silver Bullet is the undocumented worker.

Anonymous jSinSaTx August 17, 2015 8:04 AM  

I wonder if Ron Paul had put a little of the immigration issue into his campaign if he could have made a little more headway, or if the libertarian/lewrockwell crowd would have disowned him.

Anti war. Anti bailout. Anti immigration.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 17, 2015 8:04 AM  

Some here are desperate to maintain their anti-Trump bona fides, including promises not to vote for him and arguing "he may not believe what he's saying."

Who cares? Here's the choice: You can vote for someone who's saying the right things but may not believe them...or you can vote for a candidate saying all the wrong things.

You call that a choice? My wife and I will vote for Trump. We'll try to get our kids and friends to do the same.

Blogger sykes.1 August 17, 2015 8:08 AM  

Birthright citizenship is a Constitutional right and would require a Constitutional Amendment.

Amendment XIV: Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. …

Fat chance changing that.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 17, 2015 8:12 AM  

Fat chance changing that.

Hide & watch. Depends on how far gone we are, and who is President. In any event, your cuckservative-like negativity is displeasing.

Blogger Student in Blue August 17, 2015 8:12 AM  

@Nate
Ya know its really not cuckoldry... its stockholme syndrome.

It's both. Stockholme syndrome from going through liberal academia growing up... but they're also still watching their lady nation's borders get penetrated by other men and they ain't even mad. Hell, they helped set it up.

Blogger Student in Blue August 17, 2015 8:14 AM  

Fat chance changing that.

I think the ship's already sailed on Presidents acting contrary to the Constitution.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2015 8:16 AM  

They are invariably a second or third generation descendant of the business founder. They don't have Grandpa's drive, talent or determination

At the other end of the Republican Rainbow is the GOP establishment itself. The current Republican leadership is a mirror image of the Chamber of Commerce.

They were the number two men when the GOP was driven into the wilderness in 2006. Fit only to be a shadow government while a new generation of leadership developed beneath them.

Then suddenly due the miracle of Obama over reach they were thrust into actual leadership and the they aren't fit for it. They are trying to get away with tactics from twenty years ago. Deliver deliverables to the donor class and Failure Theater to the base.

Welcome to the internet Boehner and McConnell, the base won't fall for that today.

Naturally they have surrendered utterly to the mystically chimeric siren song of having a new inclusive, diverse and uncritical non-white base.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 8:16 AM  

His immigration plan is surprisingly sane.

It's actually quite good. I'd nitpick and say that the O1 visa system is adequate already to get the world's "best and brightest" to come to America; the H1 visa system should be completely done away with. But that's a relatively minor point, considering that he's taking the teeth away from H1 completely.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 August 17, 2015 8:16 AM  

the biggest single revolution in 19 centuries was "sola scriptura". For all the good the bad and the ugly it defined the western world's shape and future; it was colossal upheaval in it's day.
this looks like a start but isn't. One can't define a movement or nation by what it is not. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness still needs fleshed out detail put to those chewed up and spat out dry bones.
T minus 38

Anonymous Paul August 17, 2015 8:17 AM  

“Are you Batman?” the boy asked.
“I am Batman,” Trump said.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/16/politics/donald-trump-iowa-state-fair/index.html

Well, that settles that...

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 8:18 AM  

" Stockholme syndrome from going through liberal academia growing up... but they're also still watching their lady nation's borders get penetrated by other men and they ain't even mad. "

There is a difference.

The cuckhold knows his lady is being penetrated and is humilated... but likes the humilation.

The stockholme inflicted sees the penetration and feels no shame or humilation. He blames the lady nation for being bad and making the capture do that to her. and feels sorry for the captor for the hard choice he had to make.

When you look at the republic an attitude toward the press... it is pure stockholm syndrome. They get kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked... and all they want... is the person who keeps kicking them to just approve them just a little bit. And the slightest hint from the press that they may have a point, sends them into euphoria.

Blogger RC August 17, 2015 8:18 AM  

@33 "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"

It's quite arguable that the mother being here illegally when the child is born does not provide the child with U.S. citizenship.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2015 8:25 AM  

@33

Lets face it, the constitution is whatever the supreme court says it is. Otherwise as the law of the land, it's a dead letter.

And yes, you are correct, the amendment system is also dead.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 8:26 AM  

Ya know its really not cuckoldry... its stockholme syndrome.

As in Stockholm, Finland?

Anyway, I'd love to see Trump really drive this home in a debate. I'd love him ask ¡Jeb! if he lets the American people get screwed because he's just a weak and pathetic cuckold, or if he's one of those perverts who gets off on watching it.

It's high time that the traitors in our political class and media are actually shamed and scorned publicly for their actions. Nothing else will convince these rabbits that they're... to borrow a phrase, on the wrong side of history on this issue.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 17, 2015 8:27 AM  

@42 RC - Yes, that's the key phrase. Is an illegal who slunk into our country, "hiding in the shadows," and actively evading our laws really "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? No. Brennan slipped the anchor baby crap it into a footnote in a SCOTUS decision in the early 80's. It's been thirty years of abuse due to a judge's legislative fiat - Congress never legislated it.

As for Trump - even if he goes down in flames he's introduced the ideas to the electorate and the polling will reflect to everyone "hey, there are tens of millions of people who are thinking just like me on this issue and the GOP is pushing a bunch of status quo losers."

The needle has moved. Anti-racist narrative crumbling.

Place your trust in the ideas, not the man. Remember the lessons of GamerGate.

Blogger Student in Blue August 17, 2015 8:29 AM  

@Nate
I get what you're saying. Unfortunately, the hyperbole of claiming they get sexual gratification has caused far more of a reaction (and hopefully eventually causes them to ponder why they kneejerked so hard) than the more accurate analogy of the Stockholme'd captive.

Anonymous Sheila August 17, 2015 8:31 AM  

If I recall from my consular class prior to my first posting, at the time of the "birthright citizenship" amendment to the Constitution, opposition politicians were highly critical, saying it would mean such absurdities as the children of a foreign nation's ambassador becoming American citizens. The authors of the amendment scoffed, but duly altered the language. So now, although the ambassador's children aren't citizens, his gardener's children are.

It would not require changing the Constitution; it would merely require an interpretation that bore in mind the intent at the time it was passed. Certainly, it should have been spelled out, but no one rational back at that time would have imagined the interpretation it has today - that someone born on a plane over US airspace gets citizenship.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 17, 2015 8:33 AM  

Sheila might be onto something there. Maybe the first step should really be to deport all the lawyers who have a reading comprehension problem.

Anonymous dh August 17, 2015 8:33 AM  

As we have pointed out repeatedly this is abguy who as recently as July of this year... Wanted to increase legal immigration.

That's the real problem. It means he believes in the power of government to fix big things that are wrong. When you hear the "secure and then enforce" people talking, you know they are believers in big government.

People who support the wall and deport know that the government is always going to be broken, and that it's incentives, no government, that drive people to do something. A wall and financial incentives for speedy deportation is all we need to empty the country out of illegal immigrants. It will be over in no time.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 17, 2015 8:34 AM  

@ 11 - "He has not once in his campaign thus far said he was for abortion as far as I am aware, so I'm not sure where you got that from."

IIRC, wasn't he recently talking about how the government would need to be shut down so as to stop funding to Parts Procurement?

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2015 8:38 AM  

@50

He was but he is also on the record for a long time as being pro-abortion.

Anonymous guest August 17, 2015 8:39 AM  

In the words of Chateau Heartiste:

"Trump just delivered a roundhouse kick to the groins of GOP cuckservatives, which would hurt them if they had any balls to begin with."

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 17, 2015 8:45 AM  

@ 51 - "He was but he is also on the record for a long time as being pro-abortion."

Perhaps so. Abortion is one of those issues that a lot of folks change on, however. Much of this has to do with going from viewing it in the abstract to viewing it as real people being really killed. Don't know if that's the case with Trump, but it seems to be with a lot of folks.

Blogger paradox August 17, 2015 8:46 AM  

@31 jSinSaTx

On immigration, libertarians are overwhelming pro-immigration, with the rare Vox type exception. Immigration-wise, they're more cuck than cuckservatives... completely cuckootarian.

Blogger Justin C August 17, 2015 8:47 AM  

PhillipGeorge©2015

" the biggest single revolution in 19 centuries was "sola scriptura".


It was 16 centuries not 19. Im glad that it is acknowledged that sola scripture is a revolution and not original teaching. Anyways, the fallout from that gave us a divided Christendom, led to protestantism, which led to deism, which led to agnosticism, which led to atheism, relativism, no objective truthism, , Bruce Jenner I feel like I'm a womanism, and we're all the same ism so lets let everyone invade our countryism.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 8:55 AM  

"That's the real problem. It means he believes in the power of government to fix big things that are wrong. When you hear the "secure and then enforce" people talking, you know they are believers in big government."

it doesn't take a big government to enforce border security.

its one of the very few... and I mean tiny number of jobs the government should actually be doing.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 8:56 AM  

"Immigration-wise, they're more cuck than cuckservatives... completely cuckootarian."

you have to believe in nations before you recognize your nation being destroyed.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 17, 2015 8:57 AM  

"libertarians are overwhelming pro-immigration"

I've ticked off a few libertarians by observing that the fundamental problem with their philosophy is the same as with Marxism - that people are fungible commodities and culture doesn't matter. I then follow up with a magic soil comment.

Culture may not matter to them but it sure as hell matters to the members of your own tribe you just disadvantaged to save a few bucks for a business at the myriad expenses to society, and it certainly matters to the immigrant whom you've just opened the door for obtaining an extremely valuable citizenship.

Not all economics is money.

Blogger tridekka August 17, 2015 8:58 AM  

@31 Anti war. Anti bailout. Anti immigration.

Peace. Responsibility. Americans.

@40 “I am Batman,”
He lies! But it's for the children.

Anonymous Wild Bill August 17, 2015 8:59 AM  

My biggest complaint about Trump is his promise to continue beating the war drum in the Middle East by putting ground troops there against ISIS. When will they learn?

Blogger Cail Corishev August 17, 2015 9:02 AM  

The problem with trump of course is.. Does he actually believe any of this?


That doesn't matter, unless he wins -- unless he can win and intends to try. If he's just a vanity candidate or some sort of distraction, then it's all positive no matter what.

The important thing is that he's putting the lie to decades of Republican claims that immigration is too tricky to campaign against and impossible to fix without caving in to leftist demands, because the media pulls out scare stories of some immigrant widow being dragged away from her kids (scenes which are surely arranged for that effect anyway). Trump shows how easy it is to say, "No, we'll keep families together. Next question?"

Immigration is not nearly as difficult an issue as pro-open-borders Republicans and cuckservatives have portrayed it. If Trump gets people thinking maybe it's not this big, complicated, impossible problem to tackle after all, that's a big change at ground level that the globalists like ¡Jeb! won't be able to roll back.

Anonymous Eric Ashley August 17, 2015 9:08 AM  

Some of them are simply not alpha enough to pull off Trump's stunts. Alpha frat at pool party says 'watch me' and jumps off diving board, does horrible cannonball Delta does exact same thing.....Delta hears about it all the rest of the month. Alpha doesn't.

On my FB, I've got a couple Libertarians telling the rest of us how 'authoritarian' and 'statist', and how '2000 miles of fence just won't work'. And people wonder why I say the Libertarians are one of the prime causes of the destruction of America.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 9:11 AM  

Trump may be lying, but the others aren't even bothering too. They're just outright promising not to deport the immigrants but grant them amnesty.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 9:14 AM  


I've ticked off a few libertarians by observing that the fundamental problem with their philosophy is the same as with Marxism - that people are fungible commodities and culture doesn't matter.


Not all self-described libertarians have a clue about actual libertarianism. Even Utopian Libertarianism (the theory that can't exist in the real world) recognizes that if everything is privately owned, any mass immigration is impossible--it would involve mass trespass and be repelled, violently if necessary, by agencies of insurance contracted to protect the property rights of those being invaded.

That said, you are right; plenty of "libertarian" literature supports open movement of people, and does so either from a standpoint of naivete or in a belief that all other parts of Utopian Libertaria are in place.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 17, 2015 9:17 AM  

@ 24 "That's not both sides of the issue. That's against abortion, since this campaign."

Go back and look at the article I cited. His original position was that he wanted to defund the abortion aspect of PP but still fund PP for women's health services which is what the current government policy is. The article you cited from Breitbart that came out later now says he won't fund PP if they perform abortions. That is a change of position no matter how much you might want to say it's a clarification.

Blogger alexamenos August 17, 2015 9:19 AM  

It's a damn fine start. I'm down for the clown.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 9:20 AM  

The appeal of Trump is just another sign that people are herd animals always looking for a new Master to provide "better justice" on the Political Plantation.

The longer view is that the topping process of social mood's 300 year rally has moved us closer to the conflicts many who comment on this blog recognize. Trump is a sign of the times; his work may alter the details of the process but not the process itself.

His current popularity is an effect, not a cause.

Those who enjoy the signal that the old "we are the world" Narrative is dying (and I'm largely among them) are apt to get even more than we wished for in coming years, and risk experiencing the old saw, "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

I can't help seeing a bit of the future and enjoying a little guilty schadenfreude.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 9:23 AM  

On immigration, libertarians are overwhelming pro-immigration, with the rare Vox type exception. Immigration-wise, they're more cuck than cuckservatives... completely cuckootarian.

Libertarians are a spectrum. Most declared libertarians are crazy Bill Maher types. I consider myself a paleo-libertarian of the Ilana Mercer school.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 17, 2015 9:23 AM  

Here's a thing about Trump: he's never been afraid to express an opinion, even if he didn't have much basis for one. Career politicians don't do that; they learn to hold back their opinions until they've been vetted and parsed for dangers and passed through focus groups to try to ensure that they're safe.

As the big cheese of his company, Trump has never had to do that. He could say what he wanted, and not worry about how "the votes" would react. If asked for a decision, he could make a snap decision if he liked, and change it later if he liked. He could call his VP of Golf one day and say, "I want to put a golf course in Podunk, KY; start planning"; and then call it off a week later, and no one would demand explanations for this "waffling." He might tell the VP he read an article about Podunk that changed his mind, or he might give no explanation at all, but that would be up to him.

I might be doing him a disservice, but I doubt Trump gave more than 10 minutes thought to abortion before it came up in the campaign. It just doesn't seem like his thing. He's also never seemed like the patriotic type to me (though he has a very strong sentimental streak that could substitute for it), so I doubt he ever thought much about immigration either until recently. He probably just accepted the mainstream attitudes on them, and recited those if asked what he thought, because they were what the good people were saying.

So the stories of him reading a book or talking to a particular person and suddenly having different or more developed positions on a major issue are actually believable coming from him. That's exactly how he works in business: make snap decisions on instinct, but then when it comes time to get into the project seriously, do some research and meet with some smart people and come to a final decision that may not resemble the initial one.

That's normal in business, but very weird in politics.

Anonymous Mike M. August 17, 2015 9:26 AM  

The rest of the Republican field had better take notes. Trump could lock this up by the end of the year at this rate.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 17, 2015 9:40 AM  

They're *all* caught in their cuckservative delusion that if we all just toe the moderate line hard enough, everyone will like us"

Some are, but many Republicans -- and certainly the Bush family -- are simply pro-open borders. They're not afraid to oppose immigration; they're in favor of more of it. They've been pretty open about it, if you look deeper than their campaign speeches.

The organizations that drive much of the GOP, even at the local level, are all for cheap labor. The Chamber of Commerce and the Farm Bureau sound like La Raza on the topic. They're not deluded at all; they've been working with Democrats to get what they want. Their only holdout is that they don't want the invaders to be able to vote, because they know they'll vote Democrat.

So we've been getting a compromise: lots of people coming in to break down the culture and demand bigger government -- what the Democrats want -- and lots of consumption and cheap, off-books labor -- what the Republicans want -- but they don't get to vote (so far). Until they decide to vote like the Huns did, I guess.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 9:42 AM  

The next 14 months promise ample entertainment, far better than the usual "evil party/stupid party" false dichotomy (they're both evil and stupid, two wings of the same bird of prey (the state, that great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of others.)

If the DJIA is 17k or more next June the promise of lively silliness will go unfulfilled. If, however, the DJIA is <7,000 I imagine the Fun of Trump now may be eclipsed by even more Stand-Your-Ground political combat.

I'm hoping for the latter. The collectivist-Left has squatted on the Moral High Ground for at least 3 decades too long.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 9:42 AM  

So how long will it take for Josh and Nate to admit they are wrong about Trump?

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 9:43 AM  

How long will it take for Nate and Josh to realize the shill for Hillary (as they have stated on many occasions) is leading the charge destroying Hillary?

Not much of a shill.

Blogger alexamenos August 17, 2015 9:44 AM  

"The appeal of Trump is just another sign that people are herd animals always looking for a new Master"

Plus he has an eminently sane immigration platform. I'm hardly a herd animal--I think I've voted in one presidential election in the last 20 years (3rd party, don't recall the guys name but his platform was basically 'I'll obey the constitution'). But as long as Trump is in the campaign we have a real choice on the issue that matters and that is worthy of support.

Say what you will about Trump, he's right on immigration and that's better than being wrong on immigration and right on everything else. Is he lying? Possibly, but I know Bush is telling the truth....

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 9:46 AM  

It has been so long since Americans have been offered up a real man they don't recognize Trump is the only real man in the race.

God bless Rand Paul but he is down in Haiti fixing eyes to get attention.

If Rand had a set he would be marching around the country sounding like Trump.

Anonymous BGS August 17, 2015 9:46 AM  

His immigration plan is surprisingly sane.

He meet with Sen Jeff Sessions and this is everything Sessions roots for.

Australia's immigrations policies not too far back. Turns out, if you're from a first world country and you want to become a citizen there, you need to have an actual useful skill (like welding or skills in the medical field

Zimbabwe Doctor = 1st world CNA

Australia makes first world immigrants jump through hoops but we import hundreds of thousands of third world immigrants with bugger all screening.

That's the same plan the Kennedys and jewish donors saddled America with in 1965.

Anonymous rienzi August 17, 2015 9:47 AM  

Trump: ...........Mark Zuckerberg's personal senator, Marco Rubio.........

Speaking of roundhouse kicks to the groin. This one is positively Churchillian.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 9:48 AM  

Trump is real.

And if you can't see that and you still insist he is a shill for Hillary or Jeb, I would suggest you loosen the cinch on your tin foil sombrero and let your brain breathe a little.

Blogger Doom August 17, 2015 9:50 AM  

I am honestly surprised he hasn't been shot yet. Hell, it's not just Dems, as if party-wise there is any really difference when it comes right down to it.

As to turning the GOP to the right? Yeah, no. Rhetoric, all of it, until some action is seen. With congress as it is, I doubt if he can get any singly point on his plan through. Cuckfull of rinos. All talk. Won't make it ten feet after the election, assuming one of the talkers makes it to nomination and then is elected.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 17, 2015 9:50 AM  

Here is the thing about the Chamber of Commerce. They are all bad businessmen.

Boy howdy, you said a mouthful there. If I start writing about that, I won't get anything at all done today.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 17, 2015 9:51 AM  

It has been so long since Americans have been offered up a real man they don't recognize Trump is the only real man in the race.

Explaining Donald Trump - http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/dunkin/150810

"Which leads to another reason for Trump's appeal – he presents himself as a real man. He's the sort of take-charge, get it done, doesn't brook any foolishness type of person who does very well in big business, with its wheeling and dealing and highly-charged competitive atmosphere. Someone like that is not going to be easily tamed by a bunch of "rules of polite discourse," or those who make them. The mealy-mouths in the media and the establishment can't handle someone like him.

Even among the other Republican candidates, the difference is pretty obvious. Donald Trump is the one alpha man in a room full of beta males (excepting Carly Fiorina, of course). He speaks his mind and takes charge, while the other candidates smile blandly, speak their sound bites, and hope not to get savaged too badly by the talking heads on the evening shows. Even my own choice, Ted Cruz, while being very smart, very knowledgeable, and very capable, still comes off looking like a preschool-dad beta-provider in comparison."

Anonymous The other robot August 17, 2015 9:53 AM  

Lee Harvey Oswald will be rediscovered living in America.

Who will they use? A Christian White Supremacist Gun Nut?

Blogger Cail Corishev August 17, 2015 9:54 AM  

Birthright citizenship is a Constitutional right

Yeah, it's not like any constitutional scholars have looked at it and said it doesn't have to be interpreted in the extreme literal way it has been. Let's all go back to sleep now, right?

Anonymous BGS August 17, 2015 9:55 AM  

The problem with trump of course is.. Does he actually believe anybof this? He thinks global warming is a hoax.

Birthright citizenship is a Constitutional right and would require a Constitutional Amendment.
Amendment XIV: Section 1. All persons ...subject to the jurisdiction thereof... Fat chance changing that.


It only applied to anchor babies via the stroke of a judges pen. The author of the 14th had several newspaper articles about it before it was passed. It was intended to make blacks & Indians citizens but it specifically said people working for foreign embassy's could not. A maid & janitor working in the British embassy living in the US having a kid wouldn't not be considered under the jurisdiction thereof, so I am pretty sure someone breaking the law crossing the border in the middle of the night to squat out a kid would not be either.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 9:58 AM  

I might be doing him a disservice, but I doubt Trump gave more than 10 minutes thought to abortion before it came up in the campaign. It just doesn't seem like his thing.

I like Ann Coulter's line on twitter about this too: "I don't care if @realDonaldTrump wants to perform abortions in the White House after this immigration policy paper."

Anonymous The other robot August 17, 2015 9:58 AM  

excepting Carly Fiorina, of course

Carly is either too dumb to know that she fucks everything up or knows and uses her sex to get a pass.

Anonymous Nathanael August 17, 2015 9:59 AM  

I consider my defense of Trump against Nate in that other thread on the basis of his immigration stance to be vindicated.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 17, 2015 10:01 AM  

It is simple for me, no more sissy white males, no more gamma white males telling me in their little sadistic ways that I am a second class citizen behind the donor classes new serfs.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:05 AM  

"I consider my defense of Trump against Nate in that other thread on the basis of his immigration stance to be vindicated."

You can put a lot of faith in a position the man has held since July of 2015... and I can draw various conclusions about you based on that.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:07 AM  

Nate and Josh refuse to let the facts get in the way of what they believe.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:09 AM  

"So how long will it take for Josh and Nate to admit they are wrong about Trump?"

When he:

A) doesn't drop out of the race

B) doesn't run a seperate ticket to split the party and hand hillary the nomination

C) actually follows through on these words...

I judge a man by action. Not words.

What we have from trump.. are words. Empty words.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:10 AM  

Nate and Josh refuse to let the facts get in the way of what they believe.

Two questions:

1) what are the facts?

2) what do Nate and I believe?

Anonymous Alexander, #10 August 17, 2015 10:10 AM  

Birthright citizenship is a Constitutional right

1. Doesn't apply to invaders.

2. You're just not looking at the right emanations and penumbras. The constitutional demonstrably supports (and has always supported!) exactly what we decide it does at any given moment.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:11 AM  

"Nate and Josh refuse to let the facts get in the way of what they believe."

I could say the same about you. Confronted with all of the flip flops... no matter how extreme or recent... you simply choose to ignore them.

We'll have our answers in time Tiny Tim.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 10:12 AM  

"And notice that everything he is talking about could have been brought up by any of the other candidates, but wasn't."

Whether he is 'electable' or not, what does it tell us about the other candidates when someone else has to has to "move them to the right" simply by taking a stand for their position and not apologizing for it? The other candidates can't move themselves in the right direction? And even if they were to "move to the right," they would only be doing do so in order to avoid looking worse than they already do, not because they really believe that's the right direction to go. These people are constantly licking their fingers trying to determine which way the favorable winds are blowing.

I'll give this to the guy, Trump continues to highlight the worthlessness and ineffectiveness of the rest of the field.

I don't have much faith in the electoral system, but in principle, why can't people just run on what they truly believe in, articulate their position, stop apologizing for it, and let the voters decide who they want? That's why I wouldn't last two minutes in politics, just too darn naive and idealistic.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:13 AM  

Nate, he is not yet president.

He has words, like all the others... only his words are changing the discourse of an entire nation and resulting in the shifting of the overton window in the United States and beyond.

Not too shabby.

That is a guy I can get behind.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 10:15 AM  

Trump or a man who sounds like him may soon be either president or the "runner up" indicator that the electorate is becoming much more visibly split.

I am among those sick of the collectivist Left (which includes cuckservatives) and don't know how much further the West can follow the Left's map into Unicorn Land (the place of crazy people), but I also recognize that Trump's appeal feeds the continued evolution of the presidency as an elected dictatorship.

The root of the problem has always been the willingness of people to lend their personal power to those accumulating (or arrogating) it in Washington DC and the Cities of New York, Los Angeles, Boston and Chicago. The immigrant invasion, the Fed's war on Middle America and the Left's entire New Man paradigm hinge on an irresistibly powerful center.

Dictatorship, elective or not, inevitable or not, is not even a relatively durable solution.

Anonymous BGS August 17, 2015 10:16 AM  

On immigration, libertarians are overwhelming pro-immigration

I don't know any real life libertarian that thinks immigration is good while the welfare state exists. Don't mistake pot smoking leftists for libertarians just because they say they are.

Here is the thing about the Chamber of Commerce. They are all bad businessmen.

But great crony capitalists. How to earn money like Warren Buffet: buy underpriced govt. property from corrupt/incompetent govt workers.

It is simple for me, no more sissy white males, no more gamma white males

I have said that myself but the pickings are pretty slim if you have those standards.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:24 AM  

The wife of Ted Cruz is a partner with Goldman Sachs.

That is very, very hard to ignore.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:26 AM  

God bless Rand Paul but he is down in Haiti fixing eyes to get attention.

He's been going on medical mission trips for years, long before he ran for the senate.

If he wanted attention, he would have gone to the Iowa State Fair.

From a campaigning perspective, going to Haiti is a bad move. Much better to stay in Iowa.

Anonymous smedley butler August 17, 2015 10:27 AM  

Rand Paul was looking for a way to appeal to minorities. Well, Trump seems to have found his answer:

"Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities. "

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:29 AM  

"That is a guy I can get behind. "

This is a guy who's pulled this shit before.

I'll get behind him when he demonstrates he's serious and not just attention whoring.

Note how little money he is spending. he will say he doesn't have to.

I say its another sign he isn't serious.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:34 AM  

Also note that Trump said Jeb! was a real good guy and someone he could support...

Anonymous BGS August 17, 2015 10:36 AM  

Note how little money he is spending. he will say he doesn't have to.

He can send out a tweet and get $50million worth of air time of people clutching their pearls while they repeat it on TV. OMG TRUMP THINKS GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX TO MAKE MONEY!!! If you want the national debt reduced, you would want someone that smart. Also there is this thing called Opportunity Cost, what he could be doing to make money in place of running.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:40 AM  

Josh, you can bet your bottom dollar that Rand will bring up the eye surgery in the next debate and on the campaign stump every speech for a while.

I know he is sincere, but he needs to be taking on the establishment.

The fight is here.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:41 AM  

I know he is sincere, but he needs to be taking on the establishment.

What do you think he's been doing the past six years in the Senate?

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:42 AM  

Josh, Trump says Jeb is a joke and a loser and it was an insult to him to ever be tied with a loser like that.

Not much of a shill for Bush. This diatribe by Trump against Bush and Clinton is shooting holes in the hull of the Good Ship Lollipop, both of them.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:44 AM  

Josh, I guess you and I just define street fighting a little different.

We are on the ground getting kicked in the head.

The time for decorum is done.

Anonymous Porky August 17, 2015 10:49 AM  

I'm voting Trump because I despise Rosie O'Donnell.

Anonymous Quartermaster August 17, 2015 10:49 AM  

@31
“...or if the libertarian/lewrockwell crowd would have disowned him.”

Rockwell writers are on both sides of this mess. Hard to say where Rockwell stands

@33
Congress is the most powerful branch of FedGov. It can pass a law stating that kids of illegals don't get birthright citizenship and remove the issue from the jurisdiction of the courts.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:49 AM  

he was pro choice... now he's pro life... he was pro immigration... now hes anti immigration.. he was anti gun... now he's pro gun... He was pro-universal health care... now he's against universal healthcare.

He was Donald Trump... Now he's Mitt Romney.

Anonymous Porky August 17, 2015 10:50 AM  

Just kidding. Voting is stupid.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:51 AM  

"I'm voting Trump because I despise Rosie O'Donnell."

can't argue with that.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 10:51 AM  

"Just kidding. Voting is stupid."

can't argue with that either.

Anonymous Sheila August 17, 2015 10:51 AM  

BGS #85 - You are slightly incorrect. The maid and janitor working at whatever embassy and having a kid DO get citizenship for that child. The language specifically excludes only the children of ambassadors or accredited foreign diplomats, because at the time embassies were small affairs staffed solely by accredited diplomats. It's now interpreted that everyone else has birthright citizenship who is not specifically excluded, which includes any support staff in an embassy. That is usually the largest contingent - especially for the embassies of 3rd world countries in the US. Only those in an embassy on the State Dept's "diplomatic list" don't get citizenship for their kids. All the UN Nigerian drivers' kids in NY get birthright citizenship.

Overseas, the American embassy is the only one that employs the majority of its support staff from locals (known as FSNs or Foreign Service Nationals) which creates a massive security problem. The FSNs know who works for which agency and which offices are on which floors and so forth. They do all the purchasing, all the travel arrangements, and all local business for the embassy. Again, unless things have drastically changed in the past 20 years (and I think not), the American embassy is the only one with this practice. Even the Brits and the Dutch had minimal local staff (I couldn't speak for the Swedes - I don't recall their policies).

Trump may be all talk, but FWIW that talk sounds quite reasonable to anyone with nationalist leanings.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:52 AM  

Josh, Trump says Jeb is a joke and a loser and it was an insult to him to ever be tied with a loser like that.

Not much of a shill for Bush. This diatribe by Trump against Bush and Clinton is shooting holes in the hull of the Good Ship Lollipop, both of them.


"I can't say yet, it's too early. I can certainly see myself supporting him because he's a good person," Trump said on "The Steve Malzberg Show."

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/donald-trump-jeb-bush/2015/08/14/id/670203/

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:53 AM  

Rockwell writers are on both sides of this mess. Hard to say where Rockwell stands

I think the Ron Paul and Rockwell approach to immigration is mostly self-deportation by destroying the welfare state.

Both of them (and Murray Rothbard) have written that open borders combined with the welfare state is a disaster.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 10:56 AM  

Josh, businessman Trump is every ones buddy.

He had to have appeal across the spectrum. He is primarily in the service industry and his gambling operations require support from democrats and republican or he goes out of business. If he upsets 65% of the population he doesn't survive in his business.

He was everybody's buddy out of necessity.

Now he is stepping in to save the nation and make sure his empire doesn't go up in smoke because if this POS crashes and burns, his business empire will be in ruins.

He isn't in the defense industry or selling abortion services.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 10:57 AM  

@20

The most terrifying part of this election cycle has been finding myself agreeing with Donald Trump on a regular basis
---------------------------

Me too, even given he is a complete NY product.

I have a question for people who don't believe what he is saying. Who, or what organization, is giving him the things to say that many of us agree with? Seems like somewhere there is a really good source of ideas he is drawing from.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 10:58 AM  

Josh, businessman Trump is every ones buddy.

That Jeb! quote was from THREE DAYS AGO.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler August 17, 2015 11:03 AM  

Yes, the melting pot idea should be over; it is the Tower of Babel all over again. God personally intervened in the history of mankind to destroy three things: the first generations after Adam, the Tower of Babel, and Sodom and Gomorrah. That is how important the lesson of the Tower of Babel is. God hates it. America being a Masonic country which is about re-creating the One World has got to change to being a straight European nation.

Blogger Josh August 17, 2015 11:04 AM  

America being a Masonic country which is about re-creating the One World has got to change to being a straight European nation.

/facepalm

Anonymous Horsewithnonick August 17, 2015 11:06 AM  

"As in Stockholm, Finland?"

Nice.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 17, 2015 11:07 AM  

@87 - Carly is either too dumb to know that she fucks everything up or knows and uses her sex to get a pass.

True. The exception was made only because of her gender, as she cannot technically be referred to as a beta male.

Anonymous Rolf August 17, 2015 11:09 AM  

For the record, I don't like Trump in general (but then it must be said I don't like blowhards or politicians). But that is one plank in his platform I can support; one lifeboat can't save everyone, and attempting to do so will only sink it.

Anonymous Nathanael August 17, 2015 11:09 AM  

"Who, or what organization, is giving him the things to say that many of us agree with? Seems like somewhere there is a really good source of ideas he is drawing from."

Trump met with Jeff Sessions right before his immigration platform came out; there's a possibility Sessions even helped write. Which is really great news if you know anything about Sessions.

http://www.conservativehq.com/node/20897

Also, Trump has never been anti-gun. He's a long time NRA member, gun owner, and knowledgeable enough to know that AR-15s and other semi-autos aren't "assault weapons". Those quotes of him saying he doesn't support "assault weapons" were referring to actual automatic machine guns.

"I certainly stand by my opposition to Gun Control when it comes to taking guns from law-abiding citizens. You mention that the media describes the AR-15 as an “assault rifle,” which is one example of the many distortions they use to sell their agenda. However, the AR-15 does not fall under this category. Gun-banners are unfortunately preoccupied with the AR-15, magazine capacity, grips, and other aesthetics, precisely because of its popularity. To the Left every gun is an assault weapon."

http://www.ammoland.com/2015/07/donald-trump-talks-gun-control-assault-weapons-gun-free-zones/#axzz3h28Y8t8u

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 11:15 AM  

"Also, Trump has never been anti-gun. He's a long time NRA member, gun owner, and knowledgeable enough to know that AR-15s and other semi-autos aren't "assault weapons". Those quotes of him saying he doesn't support "assault weapons" were referring to actual automatic machine guns."

Bullshit.

Trump wasn't talking about fully auto weapons in 2000 when he wrote: “I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons,”

He was writing about scary black rifles.

You may fall for his bullshit. But the gun community isn't.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/trump-lies-about-2000-call-for-assault-weapons-ban/

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 11:17 AM  

"I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. "

That is the full quote from "The America We Deserve"

here is a another from the same page:

"It’s often argued that the American murder rate is high because guns are more available here than in other countries. Democrats want to confiscate all guns, which is a dumb idea because only the law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns and the bad guys would be the only ones left armed. The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions. "

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 11:20 AM  

@Josh "Also note that Trump said Jeb! was a real good guy and someone he could support..."

That means almost nothing. Every time he speaks he blasts Bush and his policies. I know, I've listened to his speeches.

@Tiny Tim "That is very, very hard to ignore."

Agreed. In that case we'd have to look at how he actually to know if Goldman Sachs has a lot of sway over him. I can't imagine they wouldn't, but then Cruz is a shrewder politician than the others running, which is why hes been so friendly regarding Trump and why Trump has never (to my knowledge) done anything other than complement him.

Cruz knows which way the wind is blowing.

Rand has been just a disappointment, which is a shame because he was my first pick for a long time.

Anonymous Nathanael August 17, 2015 11:20 AM  

Just more proof by assertion, Nate, pretty par for course from you apparently.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 11:22 AM  

@Nate

You and I both know that there's nothing any administration can do now about guns. Nothing. Operation SANDY HOOK proved that. They can't ban them, they can't get rid of them, they can't confiscate them, hell, they can't even pay people to get rid of them. And if Donald Trump went after guns as prez he'd lose massive support.

Anonymous Porky August 17, 2015 11:27 AM  

"If you looked like Rosie you'd be critical of beauty pageants, believe me. Rosie is a very unattractive woman, both inside and out. And as hard as it is to believe, inside is probably uglier than outside, and that's really saying something."

"I know Rosie. Rosie's a loser. Rosie's been pulling the wool over people's eyes for a long time. She is a stone cold loser."

"If you look at her IQ, it's not up there."

"Rosie's a loser. A real loser. I look forward to taking lots of money from my nice fat little Rosie."

"She's a disgusting pig, right?"

"Rosie is crude, rude, obnoxious and dumb - other than that I like her very much!"



Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:28 AM  

Josh, who knows. Maybe Trump is playing up to the weakling Jebby to appease the RNC for support down the road, or to back them off?

It might make good sense strategically.

Everyone can see Jeb is going nowhere quick.

And as far as Trump not having to spend his own money even though he says "I will spend a billion of my own money on this race" and some of you seeing that as a sign he isn't really serious.

Who in their right mind would buy a milk cow if they are getting the milk for free?

Another brilliant move and if he was spending tons of his own money right now I would say he was just stupid when they are giving him millions of dollars of free attention practically every day since he announced.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 11:31 AM  

@Josh

"I think the Ron Paul and Rockwell approach to immigration is mostly self-deportation by destroying the welfare state."

Ron Paul has never struck me as being pro-immigration, based on what I've read from him. Even if he was, killing the welfare state and entitlement programs would end it anyway, so its a win either way.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 11:31 AM  

@106

Josh, you can bet your bottom dollar that Rand will bring up the eye surgery in the next debate and on the campaign stump every speech for a while
-------------------------------

As long as Ben Carson is around, Rand Paul doesn't have a lock on the Dr. angle.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:31 AM  

I guess most of us aren't asking if we can keep our guns so it is of no real concern who wants to take them.

And by the way Trump knows full well who is constituency is and is not interested in taking our guns because he knows "we aren't the problem" and we are a stronger country when the good people are armed up to the teeth.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 11:35 AM  

@116

It's amazing how you pull one paragraph out of that entire article. The rest of the article he details all kinds of bad things about JB.

Anonymous The Millennial Falcon August 17, 2015 11:36 AM  

@ Josh, didn't Ron Paul oppose a border fence because he was worried it would be used to keep people in? I thought remember him saying that in the 2012 debates.

The problem I've had with the purist anarcho-capitalists like Ron and Lew is that they have big blinders for any enemy that's not the state.

I hoped Rand would be more well-rounded, but all he's done is water down the same approach with concessions to the neocons.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 11:37 AM  

@117

If the next president coming into office has been super outspoken against immigration, most of the illegals will hit the road on their own. I don't know what legal immigrants would do.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:38 AM  

Sad Puppy: "As long as Ben Carson is around, Rand Paul doesn't have a lock on the Dr. angle."

Great point. Ben Carson stole his thunder and his monopoly on good works and benevolence. Rand's Casper Milquetoast impression need to be tossed aside and he needs to attack the real enemies of Liberty, and it's not Trump.

I will say it again. After the debate Rand knocked over three old ladies to get to Trump and whisper sweet nothings. It looked pathetic after portraying himself as Trump's nemesis.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:41 AM  

Sad Puppy: "It's amazing how you pull one paragraph out of that entire article. The rest of the article he details all kinds of bad things about JB."

Not when you realize Josh is acting more and more like Leni Riefenstahl with every post.

Blogger Cecil Henry August 17, 2015 11:42 AM  

ONE Problem: AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY??

If Trump says this one statement, it will be progress.

That is the crime. It is white Genocide. IT is state violence. Politicians past and present must be held accountable. ;Just obeying orders' is not an excuse.

Do you wish to spend the rest of your life supporting swarms of non-citizens streaming across our borders and voting for you to give them more of your earnings?

Anonymous The other robot August 17, 2015 11:43 AM  

I am surprised that our rulers have let Trump go on raising uncomfortable subjects for so long.

The longer it goes on before they pull the rug, the greater the risk that the American public realizes that Play School Democracy is not actually how the country is run.

Anonymous cheddarman August 17, 2015 11:45 AM  

I look forward to the day we hold the politicians accountable by mounting some of their heads on pikes.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 11:45 AM  

@132

Wow the entertainment value of Trump is unlimited!

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:46 AM  

We need to pray for Mr. Trump regardless of what we think. He is on the field of battle and is our champion this hour, like him or not.

Men like him have a habit of crashing planes, helicopters, or taking a bullet.

If he is real, then tragic consequences for he and his family are without a doubt being considered.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 11:51 AM  

Queen Elizabeth on hearing of Diana's crash" "they must have greased her brakes".

The old hag knows darn good and well how this works.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 11:53 AM  

I suppose Trump is aware and has security precautions in place? I really don't know. But you would think being a New Yorker where its almost impossible to be personally armed, someone like Trump would have hired armed security at the least.

But if they go Dead Six on him, he's in trouble.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 11:56 AM  

Rand has been just a disappointment, which is a shame because he was my first pick for a long time.

Ever since women's suffrage, we'd be unable to get Rand elected. He's short, his voice sounds like a woman's and his hair looks like that guy from the Pet Shop Boys. He doesn't make half the electorate tingle enough to get their votes.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 11:56 AM  

"I am surprised that our rulers have let Trump go on raising uncomfortable subjects for so long."

I don't think they have a choice, to be honest. Once Trump came out brazenly against immigration, the cat was outta the bag. People listened by the millions and liked what they heard. Trump has shown that the attacks by the media against him won't work because people are simply too sick of the usual bullshit to much care about the details.

Blogger rcocean August 17, 2015 11:57 AM  

Ron Paul is a nut on immigration. He's one of those dishonest absurd types who says all we need to do is get rid of the welfare state and immigration won't be a problem. Yep, and if only we could find Geese that lay golden eggs, the deficits wouldn't be a problem.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 17, 2015 12:00 PM  

Just like Sad and Rabid Puppies have exposed a lot of SJWs, the whole Trump thing is exposing many a Cuckservative and Cuckatarian before my very eyes.

One of the saddest is Boortz, whom I mostly enjoyed listening to for years. Even though I thought EE was kind of wierd, I didn't realize he was such a Cuck until recently.

Blogger rcocean August 17, 2015 12:01 PM  

As stated above, almost all LIbertarians are expressly or de facto for open borders. Instead of pushing for immigration restriction now and then open borders when the welfare dismantled, they support open borders now, with some welfare state dismantling to be done sometime in the future, maybe 2070 or before Hell freezes over. Dishonest.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:03 PM  

@Joshua Dyal

"Ever since women's suffrage, we'd be unable to get Rand elected. He's short, his voice sounds like a woman's and his hair looks like that guy from the Pet Shop Boys. He doesn't make half the electorate tingle enough to get their votes."

Good point. I've watched Rand speak in front of focus groups and he has a lot of charisma, he's very persuasive, and he comes across as comfortable and knowledgable. His problem is he is just outshined completely by Trump. Trump is a solid alpha and Rand is a lesser one, at best, by comparison. He either can't or won't compete against him because he's afraid of fighting him or thinks that the politician's approach is the winning move. He refuses to take hardline positions on anything, specifically immigration, that would make him popular.

Trump uses rhetoric, slogans, and imagery that makes him memorable and stand-out. Rand uses logic, which is fine for us since we're not dim-witted plebes, but it's just not going to persuade the people at large. There needs to be more, and if Rand wants to tap into that popularity he needs to learn him audience the way Trump has and speak to them in a way that's appealing.

Its like trying to seduce a woman: she's not going to be reasoned into it ("OMFG RAPE!"), it's an emotional thing; if she's not feeling it, she's not going to have it, no matter how logical the reasons are.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:05 PM  

"Ron Paul is a nut on immigration. He's one of those dishonest absurd types who says all we need to do is get rid of the welfare state and immigration won't be a problem."

The only reason the invaders are here is because of the generous welfare. Most are unemployed, and the ones that are employed are in jobs that would be worked by Americans if the employers simply paid them a bit more. Ron Paul is right about immigration: cut off the welfare state and most of the immigration problem, illegal AND legal, solves itself. Most legal immigrants are on welfare by the way (thanks, Ann Coulter, for pointing that out).

Blogger Joshua Sinistar August 17, 2015 12:09 PM  

I really don't believe there will be an election, the collapse will happen before 2016, but Trump is the only candidate that anyone to the right of Karl Mar can support. That execrable Rand going to do eye surgery in Haiti is all that's wrong with him. He's still going after the black vote. What a clueless asshole. He'll probably come back and ramble on for days about how too many black criminals are in jail, right through the black intifada killing White people. Ted Cruz wants 5x the H1b nightmare of today. that will decimate STEM for Whites and send this country into a Third World Spiral. He might be getting money from China to push that stinker. All the candidates but Trump are traitors engaging in TREASON - straight up. They should be rounded up and Nuremberged for White Genocide after the War!

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:13 PM  

"He's still going after the black vote."

He's going after it like a beta: by sucking up. Trump isn't even bothering to go after it, and blacks are supporting him in larger numbers anyway. Politics and seduction are similar: one is macro, the other is micro, but they both use the same principles. Trump knows this, at least subconsciously, and he's winning because of it.

There's a reason God called Israel His bride. It's both literal and figurative. On a macro level, a nation that has regressed is very much like a woman: fickle, easily swayed, and desiring of a leader to fix problems it can't. America has been unusual in this regard since we don't have a king, nor do we want one, but the principles are still there in part.

Trump won't win the majority of blacks, by any means, but he'll probably get at least 15-20% based just on his anti-immigration talk alone.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 12:15 PM  

"I really don't believe there will be an election . . . "

I too will be surprised. I suspect there may be something more sinister afoot. Would love to be wrong. We'll soon see. There's more than one way to get around the 22nd amendment.

Anonymous The Millennial Falcon August 17, 2015 12:19 PM  

@ David This should be obvious but welfare isn't the only reason we have an immigration problem. Jobs, opportunities and quality of life in the first world just crush the third world.

Anonymous Curious August 17, 2015 12:23 PM  

Does Trump think he can go back on his deal with the Elites?

Now that he has crossed the Rubicon Trump has got to know that Brutus has an appointment with him.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:24 PM  

@159

True, I don't think all would leave even if the welfare spigot was cut off. They would need a bit more persuasion than that. Usually the threat of deportation, with a few thousand actively being rounded up and shipped back to Mexico, would get the rest moving.

@Rabbi

Not trying to be anti-Semitic here or anything but....any chance you know somebody in the Illuminati who could give us an idea?

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 17, 2015 12:25 PM  

@ 154 . He either can't or won't compete against him because he's afraid of fighting him or thinks that the politician's approach is the winning move. He refuses to take hardline positions on anything, specifically immigration, that would make him popular.

If you think Rand is anything other than a political animal you haven't been paying attention. As much as you hate Cruz (because Goldman Sachs) at least he has the balls to stand up to McConnell. Rand has been sucking up to McConnell since he first started campaigning in Kentucky.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 12:25 PM  

"Just more proof by assertion, Nate, pretty par for course from you apparently."

Assertion my ass.

Those are full quotes directly from Donald Trump's book.

I didn't say the man was out to confiscate guns. I said he was anti-gun... or he WAS anti-gun.

Those quote prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was anti-gun.

Anyone calling for a 72 hour waiting period is categorically anti-gun. This isn't debatable.

Anonymous Jack Amok August 17, 2015 12:27 PM  

"But they won't. They're *all* caught in their cuckservative delusion that if we all just toe the moderate line hard enough, everyone will like us"

I believe some of them have financial interests involved as well. Corporate donors benefit from immigration. They are bought and paid for. It's not just a matter of all of them trying to be moderate.


Not so much cuckolds as pimps then - prostituting their own wives out to rich bigwigs. And considering the debt, their own granddaughters too.

But Cuckservative is still far better than Pimpservative.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:31 PM  

"But Cuckservative is still far better than Pimpservative."

Somebody from MPC said that we had to come up with the term cuckservative since it's just assumed that all liberals are cucks anyway.

Blogger Salt August 17, 2015 12:31 PM  

I really don't believe there will be an election

Channeling Dread... -

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 12:36 PM  

I am deeply skepitcal of the Goldman Sachs connection with Cruz.

I mean... this may be taking the cuckservative metaphor to literally.

Blogger David-093 August 17, 2015 12:39 PM  

"I am deeply skepitcal of the Goldman Sachs connection with Cruz."

Yeah, I like Cruz as a person, he seems like he's a good guy, but his ties to GS are suspicious. There's simply no way the higher ups would not use his wife's connections to try and influence him. Would he resist that? Maybe, but how likely is that?

Anonymous George of the Jungle August 17, 2015 12:41 PM  

Those who rely on Twitter must inevitably become twits.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 12:41 PM  

"Not trying to be anti-Semitic here or anything but....any chance you know somebody in the Illuminati who could give us an idea?"

Heh . . . I'm no help there. I just don't think the current occupant is going anywhere any time soon. I think somehow it's all going to fall right back in his lap somehow, and for some reason we will need him to stick around for the good of the country and all our sakes.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/07/29/427207032/could-president-obama-win-a-third-term

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/06/barack_obamas_third_term.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jvdelong/2015/08/03/thinking-about-a-third-term/

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2015/03/09/rush-limbaugh-if-obama-sought-third-term-would-anyone-stop-him

Blogger CM August 17, 2015 12:49 PM  

Rabbi -

That's a long, uncomfortable list of sources...

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 12:54 PM  

So you guys think that, if the stock/bond markets detonate and 80th-99th percentile-in-wealth Americans see 50% of their wealth (or much, much more) evaporate, that Obama stays in office?

Maybe, but I think it would be much more likely that his crowd is driven into the Atlantic Ocean while any cars sporting the "Hope and Change" Obama 2012 bumper sticker are burned to the pavement, along with their occupants.

Cops and other government bureaucrats are among the aforementioned 80-99th percentile cohort.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 17, 2015 12:55 PM  

@156. "I really don't believe there will be an election, the collapse will happen before 2016"

On what do you base that prediction exactly?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 17, 2015 12:57 PM  

I think the Trump Situation is more than indicative that, whether there's a financial/economic SNAFU soon or not, rioting would ABSOLUTELY ensue, spontaneously, if the current Head Clown openly tried to ignore such a (excuse the pun) black-and-white rule.

If there's a catastrophe: He gets blamed.
If there's not a catastrophe: Any excuse he uses would incite conflagration.

Anonymous Curious August 17, 2015 12:58 PM  

He would have to declare a state of emergency ...

Ahhh, light comes on! That is why there are so many links between the White House and the Black Grievance Industry.

The end game of stirring up the blacks is the next phase of US history.

Anonymous ZhukovG August 17, 2015 1:04 PM  

@Tiny Tim

" He is on the field of battle and is our champion this hour, like him or not."

Dude, ummm... I like some of what Trump says, but seriously, this Dudecrush you have is a little out there.

OpenID corvinus333 August 17, 2015 1:04 PM  

The "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was already determined to refer to anyone born physically in the U.S., even if the parents were illegals, thanks to the Wong Kim Ark case -- essentially the Roe v. Wade of immigration

Yes, we will need a Constitutional amendment. But if anyone can browbeat people to pass it, it's Trump.

Blogger haus frau August 17, 2015 1:05 PM  

I don't like Trump and I certainly don't trust him. He may not really believe his own immigration stance but if he wins the primary it will pull the pool of senate and congressional candidates to the right on immigration and for this alone I'd consider voting for him.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 1:07 PM  

POTUS doesn't exactly have a reputation for upholding the constitution. Why should he start now? The definitions of words are constantly changing and they mean whatever they need to mean at the time.

The key word in the 22nd amendment is *election*. It does not say a president could not secure a third term by some other means.

This is also POTUS's MO . . throwing these ideas out there from time-to time in speeches and in a light-hearted fashion so that no one really thinks he's serious.

My question: Is there a campaign promise he has not made good on since he has taken office? The meaning of words is fluid with this guy. I know that's true of other politicians . . . but POTUS has been most successful in my estimation.

Anonymous cheddarman August 17, 2015 1:11 PM  

@ 128
it sounds like Trump is one "Sandy Hook" away from a gun confiscation executive order.

Blogger JCclimber August 17, 2015 1:12 PM  

Hey Vox,
sent you an email with an idea for a counter-meme on immigration. I'll be looking for the right photo to turn this into a social media type of message.

I'll be certain to lose some more friends, but I had no problems purging my friends list last month when their Facebook photos went rainbow to celebrate their temporary victory over christian values.

Anonymous Curious August 17, 2015 1:13 PM  

The key word in the 22nd amendment is *election*. It does not say a president could not secure a third term by some other means.

Is the constitution clear on what should happen if the newly elected president and vice president should meet with an unfortunate accident prior to January 20, 2017?

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 1:16 PM  

@182

http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment25.html

Anonymous Rabbi cheddarman August 17, 2015 1:19 PM  

"Not trying to be anti-Semitic here or anything but....any chance you know somebody in the Illuminati who could give us an idea?"

Silly you, the illuminati are all goyim. You must be thinking of the equivalent semitic organization the "jewinatti"

Blogger Nate August 17, 2015 1:25 PM  

"The key word in the 22nd amendment is *election*. It does not say a president could not secure a third term by some other means. "

You just went full WND.

You should never go full WND

Anonymous Curious August 17, 2015 1:27 PM  

@183

I don't think that amendment makes it clear what should happen when both positions suddenly become vacant.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 1:32 PM  

"You should never go full WND"

World Nut Daily?

Anonymous Discard August 17, 2015 1:32 PM  

Regarding birthright citizenship for the children of wetbacks: Let them prove that they were born here. A birth certificate is just a piece of paper. A country that can summon the strength to kick out the invaders can find the strength to do whatever else is necessary. Take care of Americans' offspring before you go looking for foreigners' offspring to weep over.

Blogger Rabbi B August 17, 2015 1:35 PM  

Is going full Savage worse?

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/michael-savage-obama-may-seek-third-term-nullifying-election

Anonymous Jim Milo August 17, 2015 1:37 PM  

Mandatory, free and instant e-verify and heavy fines for anyone hiring an illegal maid, gardener or some dude hanging out at the Home Depot.

Also, reissue SSNs with biometrics since the current system is beyond repair.

Positives: 98% of problem solved.
Negative: You just got a national ID card courtesy of the beaner problem.

Anonymous Eric Ashley August 17, 2015 1:40 PM  

I don't think its neccessarily dishonesty on the part of Libertarians. To be a Tarian is to 1. Have ALL the answers with little work. 2. To have a hammer and all problems look like nails. 3. To be very much an Inside the Box thinker. 4. To be usually a bit smarter than average, but not that much smarter. 5 To have an all purpose insult 'statist'.

Anonymous Eric Ashley August 17, 2015 1:42 PM  

I don't think its neccessarily dishonesty on the part of Libertarians. To be a Tarian is to 1. Have ALL the answers with little work. 2. To have a hammer and all problems look like nails. 3. To be very much an Inside the Box thinker. 4. To be usually a bit smarter than average, but not that much smarter. 5 To have an all purpose insult 'statist'.

Anonymous Jim Milo August 17, 2015 1:47 PM  

In my experience, anti-abortion activists have been on par with LGBT radicals. But instead of felching demonstrations we have torture porn. Both are passionate, crazy, and have no political sense. One issue cranks don't donate to presidential campaigns.

Anonymous Jim Milo August 17, 2015 1:50 PM  

We're long overdue for a constitutional convention. But remember the SJW rent seekers will want their piece of the pie too.

Blogger JCclimber August 17, 2015 1:51 PM  

Regarding anchor babies: Any anchor baby will be faced with a choice - give the child up for adoption, immediately, or take that child back to the country where you are from until that child is 18 years old. When they turn 18, the child will have to choose which country's citizenship to keep, with US citizenship automatically revoked by the 19th birthday if they haven't chosen one. They can go into the US Embassy in that year to make their choice.

Problem solved. Oh, and zero welfare payments, except a free airline ticket for the mom and infant out of the US. One way, of course, ticket booked 10 days after the child is born, unless it is a C-section than they will have 21 days. And the parents of the child cannot ever become citizens for the rest of their lives.

Anonymous BGS August 17, 2015 1:58 PM  

"I am surprised that our rulers have let Trump go on raising uncomfortable subjects for so long."

He had security as a billionaire before he told uncomfortable truths. I think him letting kids take rides on his helicopter was signaling its a bad idea to try to sabotage it. It would be like a nun was hit with Breitbart's heart attack dart.

Yep, and if only we could find Geese that lay golden eggs

We have they are called white people, that's why everyone wants in to their nations.

Jobs, opportunities and quality of life in the first world just crush the third world.

Being on welfare is better than being in the top 1% of natives in black nations. The last king or Rwanda lives on welfare in Virginia getting better free healthcare then you can buy in his homeland. Even black moslem refugees from Somolia don't want to live near Atlanta blacks and move to Lewistown Maine for the higher welfare handouts. If we get more people sinking boats they will not come.
https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/somali-migration-to-maine-its-the-welfare-magnet-stupid/

So you guys think that, if the stock/bond markets detonate and 80th-99th percentile-in-wealth Americans see 50% of their wealth (or much, much more) evaporate, that Obama stays in office?

Maybe hanging from a cherry tree.

Anonymous Donn #0114 August 17, 2015 2:01 PM  

Rabbi B @170 I think you're wrong on this one. We've never not had an election in modern times and Barry is deeply lazy and a drug addict. I suspect that he will go back to Hawaii, Michelle will go to Chicago and the kids will spend summers with dad school year with mom. Barry will smoke the weed and play golf and spend time with whomever replaces Reggie Love.

Blogger Floyd Looney August 17, 2015 2:03 PM  

A month ago Trump was saying he would let the "good ones" stay. Like he wants to fund the "good parts" of Planned Murderhood and he'd keep the "good parts" of rhe Iran deal.

This guy also likes Kelo and ENDA.

jeesh. I don't even think Trump is a conservative.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 17, 2015 2:04 PM  

Zhugov D: " He is on the field of battle and is our champion this hour, like him or not."

"Dude, ummm... I like some of what Trump says, but seriously, this Dudecrush you have is a little out there."

He is the one in the arena taking on all comers. No one else. By definition my statement is correct.

The other also ran's are just trying to stay out of trouble and be the last man standing.

My statements and characterizations are spot on. They aren't personal. I don't know the man nor do I expect any man not to let us all down at some point. Trump is no exception.

But today, he fights... and the others talk and conspire to destroy him. They all tried a couple of weeks ago and it blew up in their face.

Trump is the champion... until he loses.

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