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Thursday, August 13, 2015

Little skeletons in the closet

As Sasquan approaches, more of the File 770 SJWs are starting to lose it.
Patrick May: There is, however, a group within the non-Puppy set that has been making broad accusations of racism, misogyny, and homophobia against all Sad and Rabid Puppy supporters.

Matt Y: Eh, if you’re a supporter of a movement with a mission statement about how previous recent award winners only won because of affirmative action instead of quality work, without citation or evidence to back up that claim, I don’t think that’s a broad statement. There might be Puppy supporters that aren’t, but what they’re supporting certainly is.

Shao Ping: I would also add some of the works the Puppies supported add a great deal of credibility to charges of racism, misogyny, and homophobia.
That makes no sense. Whether you have supported someone who has made a broad statement or not, it is still, by definition, a broad statement to accuse you and every other supporter of racism, misogyny, and homophobia. This attempt to create a distinction about Person X's action on the basis of Person Y's action isn't logically valid; Person X's action exists in its own right. And I would also add that by Shao Ping's standard, many of the works supported by the science fiction SJWs add a great deal of credibility to charges of child molestation, child abuse, rape, sexual deviance, and pedophilia.

For example, there is considerably more solid evidence indicating that SFWA Grand Master and NAMBLA supporter Samuel Delaney is a criminal child molester than there is to indicate that any Sad or Rabid Puppy nominee, much less supporter, is racist, misogynistic, or homophobic, much less a Fascist, a neo-Nazi or a Nazi. I have repeatedly denied all of those charges myself and no one has ever been able to prove otherwise because they are all false. Whereas, to the best of my knowledge, Mr. Delaney has never once denied having had sex with a minor as an adult... and gay sex with minors, both voluntary and involuntary, is a frequent feature of his books. Among various and sundry other unpleasantries.

We know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that many Puppy Kickers have direct personal ties to "Chip" Delaney, to convicted child molester and SFWA member Ed Kramer, and to the late child molester, Marion Zimmer Bradley, whose estate is listed in the SFWA directory. And they were not, they are not, the only child molesters in science fiction.

Listening to these criminal sex deviants and psychological train wrecks whine for months about what terrible people the Puppies are to steal their awards is surreal. It's going to be amusing to see how they react when the media attention they have so assiduously courted starts looking in their direction and begins finding the many child-sized skeletons in their closets.

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81 Comments:

Anonymous BGS August 13, 2015 7:44 PM  

After gay marriage the next big targets are age of consent and churches tax status. If Ephebophilia & Hebephilia become legal then they will all have clean records.

Anonymous zen0 the Seer August 13, 2015 8:04 PM  

I see the award industry splitting into the Hugos, which will be purged of SJW dreck, and the SJW dreck awards, appropriately named the Marions. The emblem award, instead of a rocket, will be a child sized dildo.

Anonymous ticticboom August 13, 2015 8:10 PM  

How surprised would anyone be to see someone from that crew being asked to sit down by Chris Hansen?

And how stupid or arrogant would someone like that be to piss off people with the ability to hire private investigators or who had the same skills?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 13, 2015 8:20 PM  

Ping is not the sharpest tool in the shed, poor lad and his racial theorizing ruined mind

Blogger luagha August 13, 2015 8:30 PM  

Facts don't bother SJW's, see rule 1.

I mean, take Tom Kratman's Big Boys Don't Cry. Female protagonist of color, nonconforming to standard bodily concepts of female attractiveness, and the villains are evil white politicians and war profiteers.

In content, it is the perfect SJW story. And still they can't bring themselves to love it.

Anonymous A Visitor August 13, 2015 8:33 PM  

"Matt Y: Eh, if you’re a supporter of a movement with a mission statement about how previous recent award winners only won because of affirmative action instead of quality work, without citation or evidence to back up that claim, I don’t think that’s a broad statement. There might be Puppy supporters that aren’t, but what they’re supporting certainly is."

U mad bro?

Anonymous Quintus Maximus August 13, 2015 8:34 PM  

These people are INSANE. They're now making the accusation that Lou 'doxxed' the editor that decided to drop his story. As far as I'm concerned the whole Hugo establishment can burn in hell. I have no interest in supporting worldcon, the hugos, nor anyone involved in it. This is so far gone that I could give a shit less whether worldcon goes down in a ball of flames this year or not. As far as I'm concerned, from here on out, the entire thing needs to be 'NO AWARD'ed into obilvion. Except I have no desire to even give them the $40 A year to do that (although I guess getting the ebooks back is worth the money).

Blogger Sasa August 13, 2015 8:34 PM  

Well I thought Samuel Delaney's Nova was good novel. Anyways, same age I read that novel, I met hot, buxom Italian lady, who told me, "if you want, you get". And I thought, that is very interesting philosofical proposition. Took me twenty years to understand what that proposition really meant.

Well, it still happens time to time (unbelievable, I know), and when it happens, my unbuxomed wife asks, "wanna talk with my fist, city girl?" But nowadays I read Correia and Wright, so I guess it's all good in my life.

Blogger Chris Scena August 13, 2015 8:40 PM  

I'd be curious to see how many people really believe the SJW ideology, how many are fence-sitters, and how many (including this site) think the SJWs are batshit crazy.

I know I didn't care too much until the guilt by association crap started (and judging by comments here and like sites, I'm not alone). Since then, I have become militant anti-SJW, to the point of actually telling some of them to fuck off.

Anonymous Jim Milo August 13, 2015 8:53 PM  


How surprised would anyone be to see someone from that crew being asked to sit down by Chris Hansen?


Quite surprised as they would be smart enough to find a kid at a homeless shelter rather than online, and ruthless enough that the bag of lime in their trunk would ensure they wouldn't narc.

Blogger Leandro Novaes August 13, 2015 8:54 PM  

@1 No, the next step is not age of consent. The next step is polygamy. THEN age of consent, then pedophily, then incest. Then, if we live that long, bestiality.

VD, unrelated to the post, but related to the overall tone of the blogs, I think you might like this article, if you haven't read already. Looks like other people are reaching the same conclusion as you did regarding racial relations:

http://fredoneverything.org/applied-racial-anencephaly-making-things-worse/

Blogger Danby August 13, 2015 8:54 PM  

I wonder how many SJWs actually believe their own bullshit, as in believe they are stating truth, as opposed to laying out a series of words that will get them what they want. I'd put the over/under at 20%.

Anonymous Knarf August 13, 2015 9:00 PM  

@ Chris Scena - If you look at the circulation numbers for the major SF magazines, and especially at what's happened to them in the years since they all began to embrace SJW ideology (or at least went heavily for publishing stories that genuflected to the SJW ideals) - well, I think that kind of tells the story. Going from a monthly paid circulation of 100,000+ copies to being lucky to move 15,000 copies is *not* evidence that your views are popular.

Blogger YIH August 13, 2015 9:06 PM  

@1 BGS:
After gay marriage the next big targets are age of consent and churches tax status. If Ephebophilia & Hebephilia become legal then they will all have clean records.
Church tax status, yes, pedos, nope. Too much 'ick' factor there - even for hardcore SJWs.
Remember last year how the SJWs were all over 8chan for it's supposed 'pro-pedophilia' stance? In fact, 8chan is being attacked again over it this time through Google.
It's easier to 'look the other way' with the authors mentioned above, not so easy when it's being pushed more openly.
Whenever the 'pro-pedos' have pushed forward the pushback has been twice as hard - and comes from across the political spectrum.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 13, 2015 9:06 PM  

Who else thinks they are going to try and rig the vote in some way?

Blogger Carl Philipp August 13, 2015 9:09 PM  

@11 I'd expect incest to be before pedophilia, since many of the same arguments regarding gay marriage apply with essentially no change. I've already seen murmurs in that direction, as much as regarding pedophilia. But, of course, I don't pay enough attention for my subconscious appraisal to be meaningful.

Blogger bw August 13, 2015 9:12 PM  

NAMBLA SUPPORTER

Blogger Leandro Novaes August 13, 2015 9:14 PM  

@14 Tax status is not so easy to change. At least, not in my country, however, they are pushing for it, but the pushback is being quite powerful. As I keep telling them, at least here in Brazil where I live, the tax status is due to the fact that their money source is donations, and donations cannot be taxed. Changing that means that a lot of stuff would start to have to pay taxes, including political campaigns and non-profit NGOs. Making an exception on the law just for churches hit straight into separation of church and state and freedom of religion so they simply keep being knocked down when they try.

@15 Everyone, but if they do, and succeed, we win (because it gives us precedent to do the same next year). And if they do, and fail, we win (because we get the moral ground).

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 13, 2015 9:16 PM  

...if you’re a supporter of a movement with a mission statement about how previous recent award winners only won because of affirmative action instead of quality work...

What movement?

Where is this mission statement?

We nominated some stuff that we liked for an award, that they have been telling everyone for years represents all of the best of Science Fiction.

You'd think they would have been grateful that we had finally made our voices heard. Thus putting stop to their cultural appropriation of our damn culture, (Which they have been doing for years, when you think about it.)

Diversity! Inclusion! Uh...Gendernormative (I guess) And other social justice words.

Ah well. Gratitude is rare in conventions and is unknown to Social Justice Warriors.

Blogger Leandro Novaes August 13, 2015 9:18 PM  

@16 The argument works for all of them just the same, or with little modification. "It is all about love". You are thinking too much on logical terms. They think on emotional terms so you have to set the facts aside for a while if you wanna think like them. I ordered stuff by my hunch of general 'ick factor', but YMMV.

Blogger Groot August 13, 2015 9:26 PM  

Matt Y denies that it's an overbroad accusation, based on a mission statement that he knows exists, because Shao Ping told him, and he knows because Matt Y told him so.

And yet their mission statement includes promoting child molestation and a return to the previous racial makeup of Hugo Awards when they were in charge - all white except for one Oriental. So blatant racism and child rape and abuse. These rumor mills are fascinating.

Do you think both Matt Y and Shao Ping have bags of lime to dispose of children's bodies, or only one of them?

Anonymous zen0 Unchained August 13, 2015 9:31 PM  

@1 BGS

After gay marriage the next big targets are age of consent and churches tax status.

I vote for Churches being taxed as well as Synagogues and Mosques. If some Pagan bastards set something up, tax them also. Drive all the MoFos out of business, because that is what it is, a business.

Anonymous rtp August 13, 2015 9:31 PM  

VD.

Why do you deny that you are a racist?

I am not making any accusations of you but doesn't that fly in the face of the idea that you should never qualify yourself to SJWs?

Shouldn't you just say something like: "all people notice other people's race, indeed the government actually takes down data categorising people in that manner, so if there are precisely no differences between the races then how could anybody know which is which?"

Blogger Student in Blue August 13, 2015 9:37 PM  

@15

Worldcon has been above-the-board so far, so I don't see how exactly Puppykickers'd be able to rig the vote at this point.

Blogger Student in Blue August 13, 2015 9:43 PM  

@22. rtp

Shouldn't you just say something like:[...]

So instead of qualifying, you suggest dissembling?

Regardless, denying you are something is not qualifying. Qualifying is saying, "Yes, BUT (proceeds to qualify)" or "No, BUT (proceeds to qualify)"

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 13, 2015 9:46 PM  

David Gerrold is the 2015 Worldcon Guest of Honor or something. He hands out the Hugo awards, I think. He has a free excerpt posted right now on his website:


this month's free excerpt from Under the Eye of God


http://www.gerrold.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/under-the-eye-of-god_excerpts.pdf

In it we find:

The door crashed open with a bang! Finn plunged in like a charging buffalo. A scream and a roar—“Murdock!I have a warrant for your arrest!” Something crashed against the wall, shaking it visibly, and then another shuddering crash, and a chair came flying out the door, arcing over the railing, tumbling down into the bar and shattering on the floor below. The crashing, smashing noises continued, punctuated by painful grunts and other meaty sounds.

A naked young man—no, only a boy—just a little too young and a little too pretty, came running out the door carrying his clothes in his hands. He looked terrified.He came flying, skidding, tripping down the stairs. He slipped and skidded the last few steps.

Sawyer’s eyes widened in surprise at the sight of the voluptuous boy, but he let him pass. “That’s not Murdock,” he decided. Apparently, this establishment kept a wider variety of erotic talents available for the entertainment of its guests than he had previously assumed.

“Hm,” said Sawyer, looking after the boy’s rosy cheeks. “I didn’t think Murdock liked humans of any sex.”


Passing over the poor writing and grotesque visions throughout the entire excerpt, maybe I’m mis-interpreting this passage as a pedophile wish and/or admiration and support for pedos. Or maybe not. In either case, it should be made available to any parents who might buy Gerrold’s books and any Worldcon attendees, SJWs in particular. Ick.

Blogger maniacprovost August 13, 2015 9:46 PM  

The commonly understood definition of racist and the SJW definition of racist are two different things. Don't give in to their definitions.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 August 13, 2015 9:54 PM  

@ 23 Student in Blue

> Worldcon has been above-the-board so far, so I don't see how exactly Puppykickers'd be able to rig the vote at this point.

It would not surprise me to know that there are people working for Sasquan who welcome the Puppies as a way to save them from the tedious totalitarianism of SJWs.

Politics is deep shit.

Anonymous Knarf August 13, 2015 10:01 PM  

Finishing the except for Mr. Gerrold:

"Please help me," the boy said. "We were tribbling, and I think the one that crawled up my rectum is dead."

Blogger Tallawampus August 13, 2015 10:03 PM  

Knarf, that was funny. I'll never think of Tribbles the same way again.

Blogger Nate August 13, 2015 10:08 PM  

"we're not racist. we molest children of all races" - Anti Puppies

Blogger Nate August 13, 2015 10:10 PM  

"Who else thinks they are going to try and rig the vote in some way? "

there was no evidence of it last year.

We have no reason to believe it will happen this year.

The Con people have been nothing but classy about all of this.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 13, 2015 10:33 PM  

"Please help me excerpt," the underage boy said. "We were tribbling, and I think the one that Gellord shoved up my rectum is dead."

Blogger automatthew August 13, 2015 10:39 PM  

The Con people have been nothing but classy about all of this.

The SJWs getting caught cheating is the best possible outcome from this gambit.

Anonymous Murgy "Where do I put this box of pre-filled ballots?" August 13, 2015 10:43 PM  

It doesn't matter how many vote - it's who counts the votes that matters.

Previous years, no chicanery was *detected*.

I have my suspicions, going forward. No proof, but, remember Rule 1.

Blogger automatthew August 13, 2015 10:43 PM  

I was wrong. The best possible outcome is the SJWs getting caught cheating, yet we still win.

Blogger D. G. D. Davidson August 13, 2015 11:08 PM  

@25

Well, the writing isn't terrible. Looks like Correia on his first outing.

At least, that's what I thought of the first paragraph, but then it kept going and got stupid. Who in the world describes a young boy as "voluptuous"? I don't think that means what he thinks it means.

Blogger IM2L844 August 13, 2015 11:11 PM  

Shouldn't you just say something like: "all people notice other people's race, indeed the government actually takes down data categorising people in that manner, so if there are precisely no differences between the races then how could anybody know which is which?"

Vox, the Dread Ilk and various Puppies have been logically pointing out the glaringly obvious for years. It simply doesn't register with SJWs no matter how my times you repeat it. There is no reasoning with people so heavily invested in their feelings and image projection.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 13, 2015 11:19 PM  

Who in the world describes a young boy as "voluptuous"?

Well, the obvious answer is: someone who looks at young boys the way a normal man looks at women. But maybe he just doesn't know what "voluptuous" means.

It occurs to me that the kids in Ender's Game sometimes ran around naked. But I don't recall them ever being described in terms more often found in Penthouse letters.

Blogger overcaffeinated August 13, 2015 11:23 PM  

@26

Right, "racist" to a SJW means "wrong, bad person." It's more of a magic incantation than a normal word with a defined meaning. There is no point trying to reason with them about this or that aspect of fact-based analysis of race relations. They don't care about that, at all. They know "racist" is a way of asserting power over others, that's all. So handing them that power is foolish.

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 13, 2015 11:27 PM  

@38 Yes, the children in Ender's Game occasionally went in skins, but A) They were primarily associating with other children, and almost exclusively male and B) This was never described in remotely sexual terms. Like or dislike OSC, you cannot lay this kind of shit at his doorstep.

Blogger rho August 13, 2015 11:31 PM  

@19 We nominated some stuff that we liked for an award, that they have been telling everyone for years represents all of the best of Science Fiction.

As I understand it, that's what Sad Puppies was for, while Rabid Puppies had different motives. Lumping the two together is convenient, but possibly a category error.

@36 At least, that's what I thought of the first paragraph, but then it kept going and got stupid. Who in the world describes a young boy as "voluptuous"? I don't think that means what he thinks it means.

Unless he's aliterate, he knows what it means. Therefore, by the standards set by File770 commenters, Gerrold supports pederasty.

The best part about thinking in Social Justice Warrior terms is that you don't have to do that much actual thinking. Three sticks and a tarpaulin are sufficient to build a mansion.

Anonymous Kevin Jennings, "Safe Schools Czar" August 13, 2015 11:38 PM  

I am not a "SJW".

I just think I should be unmolested while teaching your kids about fistin', rimmin' and dental dams.

Blogger D. G. D. Davidson August 13, 2015 11:50 PM  

@38

Well, the obvious answer is: someone who looks at young boys the way a normal man looks at women.

I realize "voluptuous" has two distinct meanings, but when describing someone's appearance, it usually means "curvaceous," which young boys simply aren't, no matter how you look at them. It's a poor word choice.

The passage is all-around clumsy, though parts of it would be excusable in a rough draft. "The door crashed open with a bang!" is a dumb sentence anyone could pen in the heat of composition, and easily fixed: remove the exclamation point, and have one onomatopoeia or the other, but not both. And we have a character who flies ad trips and skids . . . and then slips and skids once more. Again, easily fixed with the red pen.

But then it just gets dumb. He wanted to show how seedy this establishment is, I get that, but seems to have no clue how to convey it, and that little double entendre about "rosy cheeks" is just ridiculous, a bit of humor that simply doesn't work. It reminds me of the "twinkling buttocks" in Lady Chatterly's Lover

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 13, 2015 11:59 PM  

@36. D. G. D. Davidson

Who in the world describes a young boy as "voluptuous"? I don't think that means what he thinks it means.

You're too kind. I think he knows exactly what the word means and Mr. David Gerrold, Guest of Honor of Worldcon 2015 and Presenter of the Hugo Awards, is using it with precision to describe his own feelings toward underage boys. Just my opinion, of course.

Full Definition of VOLUPTUOUS http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voluptuous
1
a : full of delight or pleasure to the senses : conducive to or arising from sensuous or sensual gratification : luxurious, a voluptuous dance, voluptuous ornamentation, a voluptuous wine
b : suggesting sensual pleasure by fullness and beauty of form, voluptuous nudes
2
: given to or spent in enjoyment of luxury, pleasure, or sensual gratifications, a long and voluptuous holiday — Edmund Wilson

OpenID corvinus333 August 14, 2015 12:02 AM  

If you think being "racist", "sexist", or "homophobic" is pure evil, but being a child molester is a minor personal failing, you might be an SJW.

Blogger bob k. mando August 14, 2015 12:21 AM  

43. D. G. D. Davidson August 13, 2015 11:50 PM
He wanted to show how seedy this establishment is, I get that, but seems to have no clue how to convey it



no, he was making the same error as Wilbur Smith vis a vis the anal rape scene.

it's being presented as something that's supposed to denote 'wrongness' ...

but at the same time the author is getting so excited by the presentation that it's bleeding over into the work.

it's kind of like watching Michael Jackson talking about sleeping naked with children, and saying that it's perfectly 'innocent'.

you have to be seriously deranged not to see what you're actually saying.

but there are plenty of people who actually are that deranged.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 14, 2015 12:22 AM  

And furthermore, and in my opinion, and why oh why and hem and hum and my oh my: why would Mr. Gerrold pick that particular free excerpt to put up on his website in the weeks just before Worldcon 2015, where he is the Big Man, Guest of Honor? With reams of other material to select from, why would he highlight this as an example of his work for all to see? Is his other material similar? (I don't know.)

Can I leave the rest as an exercise for the Reader or do I need to spell it out for people who don't- for an hypothetical & 'purely' rhetorical example- understand how pedos do their grooming and recruiting? Can we learn anything from prior examples like Dragoncon?

Anonymous Ain August 14, 2015 12:41 AM  

Vox: "We know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that many Puppy Kickers have direct personal ties to "Chip" Delaney, to convicted child molester and SFWA member Ed Kramer, and to the late child molester, Marion Zimmer Bradley, whose estate is listed in the SFWA directory. And they were not, they are not, the only child molesters in science fiction."


I'm not surprised by much that the SJWs do, but it's always disgusted me that "the most hated man in science fiction" is not one of the child rapists.

Blogger SciVo August 14, 2015 12:50 AM  

@47 Forrest Bishop VFM #0167:

Well, let's make it pseudo-explicit for legal reasons: one could be forgiven for wondering whether the excerpt was carefully chosen in the hopes that a boy matching that description would come up to the author at the imminent convention and say how much the excerpt excited him, and he's... [licks lips]... looking forward to more.

Blogger Daniel August 14, 2015 12:59 AM  

We called your molesters what they are while you lionized them. We exposed your "literary" awards for the logrolling that they are while you lionized Johnny Con's antics. We shamed your perversions and horrible taste in entertainment by providing actual readers measurably better options.

We have only begun to take everything you value and destroy it. Just pray we don't have bigger designs than you can imagine...

Anonymous Homesteader August 14, 2015 2:10 AM  

Wormtongue. We fight him and his. Ever was it thus, ever shall it be.

Blogger VD August 14, 2015 4:49 AM  

Why do you deny that you are a racist?

Because I'm not. By any definition. Rhetorically, it isn't advantageous. Dialectically, it's not possible because it isn't true.

Anonymous Anonymous August 14, 2015 5:20 AM  

Honest question to Vox.

Do you have any link or have written any book about your time management techniques? You produce software games, write books, write about five posts a day and have a family AT THE SAME TIME. I really admire this. I would like to learn how you do it so I can do more things with my time (maybe not as much as you do but more than I am able to do now).

Blogger VD August 14, 2015 5:28 AM  

Do you have any link or have written any book about your time management techniques?

Put off the paperwork as long as possible and sleep 5-6 hours per night. That's about it.

Blogger dlw August 14, 2015 6:15 AM  

@7: I have no interest in supporting worldcon, the hugos, nor anyone involved in it.
---
That's the beauty of their whole system. To oppose them, you have to send them money to play their game. They're laughing all the way to the bank.

The Puppies are the best thing to happen to Worldcon in decades. Free PR and lots of people sending them money who would never have done it otherwise.

It doesn't matter how you "vote" in their little contest; they already won when they got your money.

Anonymous Steve August 14, 2015 6:29 AM  

They're laughing all the way to the bank.

Lol.

The Puppies are the best thing to happen to Worldcon in decades.

Agreed.

It doesn't matter how you "vote" in their little contest; they already won when they got your money.

Nah.

I won when I got much more entertainment value for my $40 than I could ever have expected.

A+++ would join again.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 14, 2015 7:05 AM  

Is being an eksothenegynist better than being a misogynist?

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 14, 2015 8:19 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 14, 2015 8:34 AM  


@18
Everyone, but if they do, and succeed, we win (because it gives us precedent to do the same next year). And if they do, and fail, we win (because we get the moral ground)
---------------
This is a wonderfully concise description of the overall strategy. Perhaps I didn't word my question very well, because I was thinking of how lefties will do all manner of things during the actual vote counting.

@24
Worldcon has been above-the-board so far, so I don't see how exactly Puppykickers'd be able to rig the vote at this point
---------------------

So the actual event workers and vote counters are not infiltrated by the SJWs, but are more or less impartial people just doing a job? That's a much better situation than what I thought.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 14, 2015 8:41 AM  

@26

The name Murdock is triggering me. I believe this character, in the name of vibrant inclusiveness, should be changed to Trayvondius Xiou Gonzoles.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 14, 2015 8:52 AM  

@37

Well, the writing isn't terrible. Looks like Correia on his first outing
-----------------------------------------

"On one otherwise normal Tuesday evening I had the chance to live the American dream. I was able to throw my incompetent jackass of a boss from a fourteenth-story window."

I have used this first paragraph from MHI multiple times to get friends and relatives hooked on MHI. I doubt the first paragraph in the excerpt would have the same effect. Just my opinion, but it doesn't look anything like ILoH.

Blogger Student in Blue August 14, 2015 9:13 AM  

So the actual event workers and vote counters are not infiltrated by the SJWs, but are more or less impartial people just doing a job? That's a much better situation than what I thought.

Relatively normal people doing their job. They might have some SJWs but they've shown no signs of being compromised and partial - that is, they're not critically infiltrated (yet?).

Blogger Tom Kratman August 14, 2015 10:43 AM  

Luaghga:

Indeed, and it's not like setting them up for that wasn't deliberate...

Anonymous Jack Amok August 14, 2015 11:26 AM  

...he was making the same error as Wilbur Smith vis a vis the anal rape scene.

it's being presented as something that's supposed to denote 'wrongness' ...

but at the same time the author is getting so excited by the presentation that it's bleeding over into the work.


Yep, plus, Gerrold can't help himself and presents what any normal person would find disgusting - discovering a brothel with underage prostitutes - as only mildly interesting and not terribly relevant. Whatever character traits are supposed to be important about this Murdock character, the fact he pays to bugger young boys isn't one of them. It's just window dressing, like his favorite brand of scotch or the color of his shoes.

If I'd written that scene, the last sentence would have been more along the lines of :

“Well,” said Sawyer, looking away from the fleeing boy. “I thought I knew Murdock, but I guess he's worse scum than I realized.”

But Gerrold can't quite bring himself to have the viewpoint character - whom the audience is supposed to experience the story through - condem pedos.

Blogger Carl Philipp August 14, 2015 12:14 PM  

@48 Forrest Bishop
What... What about Dragoncon? Do I want to know?

Anonymous Conservative Buddhist August 14, 2015 12:32 PM  

@62. Agreed. That first chapter in MHI was a great way to introduce readers to this alternative world.

Anonymous Sheila August 14, 2015 12:46 PM  

I've yet to read any Correia, but I've read a bunch by Kratman and Sarah Hoyt, and both authors' books are filled with characters of varied race, sex, ethnicity, and national origin. They seem to go out of their way, in fact, to point out that what matters (to them) is the individual's character and/or job competence. Hoyt also includes genetically-altered humans of all sorts and repeatedly notes (in various books and short stories) that their differing bodies or appearance does not make them in any way less than human. She also notes that humans are, by nature, tribal, but seems to believe this can and will be overcome in time (a point I cannot agree with her on). How in any possible way are either of them "racist"?

Blogger Groot August 14, 2015 1:28 PM  

Sheila, read Correia. I mean, get up right now and read him. I didn't know if Mrs. Groot would like the pulp, being a literary type, but she loves it.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 14, 2015 1:32 PM  

@65. Jack Amok

"it's being presented as something that's supposed to denote 'wrongness' ...

but at the same time the author is getting so excited by the presentation that it's bleeding over into the work."

Yep, plus, Gerrold can't help himself and presents what any normal person would find disgusting ...
But Gerrold can't quite bring himself to have the viewpoint character - whom the audience is supposed to experience the story through - condem pedos.


Exactically. There a similarity here with George RR Martin. Several have said about his stories that they are littered with rape scenes told from the POV of an approving protagonist. One person went through some of the Game of Thrones books and counted a rape scene every 24 pages on average, or something like that. (I don't know, haven't read him.)

There appears to be a rape/pedo culture within SFF in general and within SFWA in particular. Did John Scalzi, past President of SFWA, ever do anything about that? Invoking SJW Law #3: SJWs Always Project, this may be one of the sources of the "all men are rapists" and "all men are pedos" assertions.


@66. Carl Philipp

@48 Forrest Bishop
What... What about Dragoncon? Do I want to know?


Probably not, for mental hygiene purposes, but this is why they get away with this stuff. Entering ed kramer dragoncon boy harem into a search engine turns up e. g. http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-sicko-side-of-the-sci-fi-circuit/

"Ed Kramer, founder of the highly influential Dragon*Con... The formula Kramer had created for DragonCon’s success was simple: other conventions were where people went to meet their favorite celebrities, Dragon*Con was where you went to party with them.

...From the beginning rumors followed Kramer as he began to appear in public with a harem of young male sci-fi fans... Mike Dillson, the head of Dragon*Con’s operations and security for nine years, admitted that he had seen many instances of inappropriate behavior involving Kramer and young boys. One of those instances left no doubt in his mind as to what was going on:

... “He came from the shower dripping wet and so was the little boy he had with him.” Later, he says, he refused Kramer’s request to take his young son on a caving trip.

It should be noted that Dillson didn’t alert authorities. In fact, for more than a decade Dragon*Con participants, from the celebrity guests to his fellow founders, witnessed increasingly obvious predatory behavior from Kramer toward young boys...

....”You’d go up to his suite to get passes or to talk to him and the room would always be filled with pre-pubescent boys,” Johnston recalls...


Notice the "meetups" don't have to be in the hotel room, nor do they have to be with the original underage contact. Maybe it's on a caving trip later on. Maybe all those curiously-silent SJWs get invited, too. Maybe the pedo adopts a young boy and so gets to meet all his little friends.

Say, have any of these gay SFF authors ever adopted little boys?

Blogger Carl Philipp August 14, 2015 1:46 PM  

@70 Forrest Bishop "Several have said about his stories that they are littered with rape scenes told from the POV of an approving protagonist."

I... Can't quite remember any? Although the forced marriage of Danaerys who ends up falling in love with the guy was kinda weird.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 August 14, 2015 2:16 PM  

@71. Carl Philipp

I don't know for sure. I'm reporting what others have said about GRRM.
http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2015/05/george-martin-loves-rape.html

Blogger CM August 14, 2015 2:22 PM  

The Danaerys Scene - I can see why feminists hate it and think its rape... I don't see how any of the ilk see it that way.

She didn't fight him and she describes him as surprisingly gentle given his size, warlike manner, and the wedding feast.

At least the first 3 books, i don't recall much rape. But sex scenes aren't eroticized in the books, either.

Blogger Carl Philipp August 14, 2015 3:04 PM  

@72 Forrest Bishop
Glancing through the list, I don't recall that any of them are approved of by the pov protagonists? Sure, sometimes like Crasters daughters the protagonists don't risk their lives to help, and Theon is forced to participate. Seems, though, like proof that Rule 1 applies to SJWs eating each other.

Blogger Feather Blade August 14, 2015 4:28 PM  

@70 "Invoking SJW Law #3: SJWs Always Project, this may be one of the sources of the "all men are rapists" and "all men are pedos" assertions."

That would be a good comeback to 'all men are rapists': "You need to hang out with a better class of men."

Blogger Tom Kratman August 14, 2015 8:23 PM  

I think the latest lefty theory, Sheila, is that I married a Latin girl to pollute her genes.

Blogger bob k. mando August 14, 2015 11:36 PM  

76. Tom Kratman August 14, 2015 8:23 PM
I think the latest lefty theory, Sheila, is that I married a Latin girl to pollute her genes.




given horizontal gene transfer, there may be more to this than you might expect.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 15, 2015 1:24 AM  

Oh, I can hardly wait. Go on, then; horizontal gene transfer...

Blogger D. G. D. Davidson August 15, 2015 1:37 AM  

@62

I should probably clarify what I meant, or perhaps I should have thought through what I meant more carefully before posting the first time. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Correia. He does indeed have an excellent hook for his first sentence, and the entire first chapter demonstrated, when I read it, that I was in the hands of a very capable action writer. The scene is exciting, fast-paced, and perhaps most importantly, clear. I knew, without any effort on my part, where the characters were and what was happening throughout the action sequence.

That being said, I think Monster Hunter Nation is in places clunky. Correia has not quite the flair for dialogue that he has for action. I mean that as no serious criticism: it is a really, really good first novel.

This passage here, though brief, leaves me with a similar impression, that of a first outing by someone who has talent but hasn't fully matured. But the passage reads like a rough draft. He needs an editor, or he needs to put it away for a few weeks before looking at it again.

@45 I concede. The definition of the word is slightly broader than I realized. I suppose he did not, strictly speaking, use it incorrectly, but, at least in my opinion, it still offends the ear and doesn't quite work in context.

@47 Wilbur Smith . . . Wilbur Smith . . . yeah, I've heard of him. I think I got a third of the way through Warlock before I threw it across the room. I kind of like Smith's half-baked, overwrought, purple style, because I'm into that, but the at-first-intriguing story got steadily more stupid, and when the hero's very young sister decided to betray her brother for no other reason than because her evil and significantly older husband was good in bed, that's when I hurled the book against the wall. I won't deny, whenever a female character walked onto the page, it was suddenly like I was reading the ramblings of a slightly senile dirty old man.

Don't know the particular scene you're talking about. I'm probably happier that way.

Blogger Achillea August 15, 2015 11:52 AM  

At least the first 3 books, i don't recall much rape. But sex scenes aren't eroticized in the books, either.

The sex scenes, consensual or otherwise, are really barely even there in the books (though I haven't read the last one or two, so maybe GRRM suddenly went all Steve Perry in those).

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