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Monday, August 03, 2015

The metric

A Puppy predicts:
In Best Related Work:
• No Award wins – the majority of supporting memberships came from the various campaigns urged by the puppy kickers.
• Wisdom From My Internet wins – the majority comes from the Monster Hunter Nation.
• Letters from Gardner wins – the majority of new SMs came from uncommitteds who joined because of the publicity and a attention drawn to the Hugo. These are folk who genuinely want to see the award rehabilitated (call them Brad's Troops).
• Transhuman or Subhuman wins – the majority of new SMs come from the Dread Ilk.
• The Hot Equations wins – the majority of new SMs comes from people who have felt disenfranchised by the CHORFs, who like good *hard* SF and milSF. It also gets a good boost from the Dread Ilk and Baen because of Castalia and Kratman. This is the win that shows that we *really* hit home with the justification for the Sad Puppies.
• Why Science is Never Settled wins – something is seriously wrong in the demographics and/or the voting.

268 Comments:

1 – 200 of 268 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 10:16 AM  

I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom. They were never going to be Persians, they were always destined to be the Spartans.

The fact that the most obnoxious, most toxic elements of the proper fandom cliche have essentially gone into radio silence the last few months is essentially all the evidence we need to know that they are working behind the scenes to get No Award done in peace and seclusion. These are not people who are afraid to make demands and to institute a whisper campaign.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 10:22 AM  

hrmm.... I wonder if this takes into account the odd proclivities of aussie rules voting.

Anonymous MrGreenMan August 03, 2015 10:23 AM  

They will burn their own fields and kill their own animals, and they'll probably do this every year from here until they make the Hugos into the Nebulas.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 03, 2015 10:41 AM  

I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom. They were never going to be Persians, they were always destined to be the Spartans.

Of course.

Then again, the SJWs aren't the majority of fandom either. If the Puppies are the Spartans, the SJWs are merely the quisling contingent of some unimportant Ionian Greeks who served as auxiliaries in Xerxes' army.

Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 10:55 AM  

Then again, the SJWs aren't the majority of fandom either. If the Puppies are the Spartans, the SJWs are merely the quisling contingent of some unimportant Ionian Greeks who served as auxiliaries in Xerxes' army.

Yeah, that could be. It may be that the insider cliche will be disappointed that they are unable to control the system. Their new voting proposal that they are working on getting done the year after next will essentially permanently balkanize the awards - creating a way for the major publishers to virtually ensure their one or two works always receives a nomination. These are not the actions of a confident majority.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 10:59 AM  

"I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom. They were never going to be Persians, they were always destined to be the Spartans. "

sure.. but the fact is sci fi customers like Star Wars... not Queers Dig Timelords.

Anonymous Book_Girl August 03, 2015 11:03 AM  

I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom.

Agreed. I don't doubt they will win their "No Award" campaign on almost everything this year, as yes, we are in the minority now.

But, we are just getting started...

Blogger Salt August 03, 2015 11:07 AM  

Minority? Who cares! Heads you lose, tails we win. 18 days and counting.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite August 03, 2015 11:07 AM  

This is all prologue. The real fun starts next year.

Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 11:10 AM  

sure.. but the fact is sci fi customers like Star Wars... not Queers Dig Timelords.

If I was Kate the Impaler, this is the direction I would take next year. 100% big Hollywood tie's get nominated. Everything will be related to Marvel, Star Wars, or Star Trek. Then enlist those fan communities. The Disney people especially are legion and fanatical to a degree that the average Torling can't even imagine.

Best Novel:

1. Star Wars Tie-In Spin Off
2. Star Trek Tie-In Spin Off
3. Marvel Universe Tie-In Spin Off
4. John Wick Universe Tie-In Spin Off
5. Something from Tor, probably a Scalzi novel

The Hugo committee next year would be steamrolled with tens of thousands of supporting memberships.

Blogger Alexander August 03, 2015 11:12 AM  

Not so sure. If I had to put money on it, I suppose I'd expect No Award to win...

But then, there were a lot of supporting memberships that jumped in, and we are in the middle of an anti-establishment rebellion across the board. How many Gamergates bought memberships after the anti-puppies decided to smear them, because hurtfeels? How many people tweeting in support of the confederate flag or against the organ snatchers or the #cuckservatives saw the cross traffic and checked it out and noted the common enemies? How much was Milo and his hair a force multiplier between the groups?

Maybe everyone is still focusing on their one battle and not yet providing support to potential allies. But maybe they are starting to. We will see.

Anonymous Tom August 03, 2015 11:13 AM  

If I'd had a vote, it would have been for "The Hot Equations," which is surprising given how much I love most of JCW's stuff.

Blogger GK Chesterton August 03, 2015 11:14 AM  

I would rather not do tie-ins given that Star Wars is drifting left and Marvel has taken a hard left turn.

But yes, I am one of the Rabid's hoping for a "Transhuman" win.

Anonymous Rolf August 03, 2015 11:16 AM  

@7 - At this point, we really don't know just what the numbers are. This is a "recon by fire" event. We will know a lot more once the vote totals are released. They might have bought / encouraged a large number of memberships (greater than the pups), it might be a tight race, we might crush them utterly, and the lamentations of their men and women will be indistinguishable as we drive them before us.

I've talked to a number of people over the last few months that used to be big sci-fi fans in the 70s/80s/90s but got away from it because it wasn't interesting any more, and when I spelled it out for them they got the "light-bulb look." I had jury duty a few weeks ago, and there were three of them between the other twelve people like that in the room, and another two in the larger room before I was empaneled. We will know soon enough.

Blogger Alexander August 03, 2015 11:16 AM  

Dh,

I still like your idea of getting a telephone directory, a farsi-english dictionary, and a technical manual nominated for best novel.

But given the hurdle in getting them qualified, I like the tie-ins. Scalzi wouldn't make the cut though - you forgot HALO.

Blogger JartStar August 03, 2015 11:17 AM  

dh - Yes, and the Balkanization of the awards is one of the RP/SP victory scenarios. Every year people will know that Tor will get their one or two awards, and that's the end of that.

Their beef never was that SP is evil, but rather that SP/RP kicked down the gate to their private pool party. The "SP is evil" talk was rhetoric to get their side motivated and plain old anger. They know it can never be private again so they are looking to make sure they always have a seat in the hot tub.

Anonymous Tom August 03, 2015 11:22 AM  

Oops, silly me! I was still thinking about what kind of SciFi and Fantasy I actually like to read, and not the societal implications of the awards votes.

In as much as this controversy has brought attention and customers to Baen and Castalia, it has moved beyond just the Xanathos Gambit stage. It has become a booster rocket to help New Blue SciFi get off the ground. The brilliance of this whole scenario is staggering.

Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 11:31 AM  

> I still like your idea of getting a telephone directory, a farsi-english dictionary, and a technical manual nominated for best novel.

Right, I abandoned that idea because there is no group to fight for inclusion. If you pick the major Movie & TV franchises with active fandom's, they will be naturally inclined to line up on the sides and direct fire towards those trying to squelch their fandom fiefdom.

The size and scale of these fandom's is crushing.

Blogger Alexander August 03, 2015 11:41 AM  

The added bonuses of:

1. Watching the SJW crowd point and shriek and demand that Disney, HALO, etc. do what they are told to do

2. See what happens when a Torling decides the code of conduct isn't for them and they can badmouth Disney publicly under the name of their employer...

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 11:48 AM  

"Right, I abandoned that idea because there is no group to fight for inclusion"

doens't matter.

If you control the NOMS ... you control everything.

Anonymous Michael Maier August 03, 2015 11:57 AM  

"I would rather not do tie-ins given that Star Wars is drifting left and Marvel has taken a hard left turn"

Marvel? Examples?

Blogger jay c August 03, 2015 11:58 AM  

Next year, we nominate the absolute worst works we can find for every category that gets No Award this year. Except Graphic Novel. For that category, we need to find the one or two deserving artists/writers who surely must exist.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan August 03, 2015 12:01 PM  

You weak, weak, only mildly hydrophobic dogs!
My prediction is that the RBs do a lot better than you think. So much so that I think Vox will get a nomination if not a win.

And even if I am completely wrong, shame on you! For not being appropriately fanatical in your faith. I mean what kind of rabid bigots, misogynist homophobes neo-nazi are you? Moderate ones?!?

Blogger ScuzzaMan August 03, 2015 12:10 PM  

It could be a lot messier tgan that, with no clear winner in purely numeric terms. My thinking is that we've already won.

We're just waiting to see exactly how much

Anonymous RedJack #22 August 03, 2015 12:12 PM  

The fact that every thing went "Radio silent" suggest that they were not as secure as they had hoped, and are trying to lock some things down via back room deals.

Or it could mean they are just busy. Still, I will donate $40 next year. I got my money's worth and more from the works and the chaos.

I have also had a number of people jump in from my immediate cycle of friends. Next year should be interesting, as they were talking about "Dr Who" nominations a lot.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 12:12 PM  

""I would rather not do tie-ins given that Star Wars is drifting left and Marvel has taken a hard left turn""

With Marvel I think its clear that the upper management have their eyes on the movie world. That is giving the SJWs room for crap like Girl Thor. But note that you don't see the PC BS in the movies. Look at the last avengers. The scenes with Hawkeye's family and wife are distinctly anti-SJW.

And Cap is profoundly un-pc.

"There is only one God ma'am... and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that."

Blogger ScuzzaMan August 03, 2015 12:21 PM  

Compromise out of fear or compromise out of greed, it is still compromise.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 03, 2015 12:23 PM  

If the Puppies are the Spartans, the SJWs are merely the quisling contingent of some unimportant Ionian Greeks who served as auxiliaries in Xerxes' army.

The SJWs are obviously Ephialtes of Trachis.

Anonymous Obvious August 03, 2015 12:31 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 12:33 PM  

Y'all are the same group that though Beale had a chance in hell of being SFWA President.

Quote or it didn't happen.

There is a difference between tilting at windmills and thinking you are the windmill. Quixotic yes, delusional no.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2015 12:35 PM  

> Marvel? Examples?

Hank McCoy gay? Seriously? What were they thinking?

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2015 12:36 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Mike M. (vfm #315) August 03, 2015 12:45 PM  

If the Puppies are the Spartans, I guess that makes the Vile Faceless Minions the Athenians at Salamis.

Ramming speed!

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 03, 2015 1:00 PM  

I would rather not do tie-ins given that Star Wars is drifting left and Marvel has taken a hard left turn.

So what?

Blogger Migly August 03, 2015 1:09 PM  

I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom. They were never going to be Persians, they were always destined to be the Spartans.

*Scratches head* According to Torgersen the trump card justifying all this was that the slate was supposed to represent the millions fans who really and truly like, well, something that wasn't already being nominated.

Now you're 300 Spartans?

Anonymous zen0 August 03, 2015 1:10 PM  

SJW's a symptom of decadent civilization:


Civilizations normally go through three stages; Barbaric, Vigorous and Decadent.

The central cultural critique becomes updating older works to more politically correct forms. A classic character is made black or gay. Problems with diversity or sexism are tackled. The critic becomes a commissar whose job is to sanctify the transformation of an old politically incorrect work as politically correct. That is the role of the social justice warrior.

All this energy makes it appear as if there is cultural ferment when nothing is actually being produced. Instead older works are being "cleaned up" in keeping with new social values by a civilization that frantically chews up the past in a desire to forget the problems of the present.


Sound familiar, sci-fi fans?

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 1:13 PM  

"Now you're 300 Spartans?"

Not understanding an analogy is not a sign of intelligence.

OpenID malcolmthecynic August 03, 2015 1:23 PM  

I greatly enjoyed "Ant Man". The second half of that movie was some of the best stuff Marvel has ever done.

Buuuuuuut...there's no question that it leans distinctly left.

Consider:

. We know the thief is a "good guy" because he only steals from evilly evil one-percenters, who obviously deserve it

. The one one-percenter who happens to be a good guy is also the guy who wants to destroy the evil pro-war big corporation (the headquarters of which is, of course, blown up, as should happen to the headquarters of all big corporations)

. The bland female love interest is actually better at punching and fighting than the guy who learned how to fight in prison against apparently dangerous criminals. Apparently studying martial arts means that your thin skinny arms are better at punching than a grown man who learned how to fight in prison.

. The woman who got re-married and put out a restraining order on her non-violent ex-husband, forcing him to be unable to see his daughter again until he gets financially stable, a process that could take him more than a year, is portrayed as being in the right.

Let's repeat: He is non-violent and clearly loves his daughter. He does not ask for custody. But he is not allowed to go to her BIRTHDAY PARTY. And we're supposed to believe that the mother is in the right about this.

It's not all bad. There's some good pro-family stuff with his daughter in there, and in general the movie has a running theme about the importance of family. And the second half was awesome. But there's no question it's starting to lean left.

Blogger maniacprovost August 03, 2015 1:27 PM  

People never remember that Sparta sacked Athens after it degenerated into an orgy of decadent robber barons.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 03, 2015 1:34 PM  

@38. Yes and no. The idea that Lange couldn't fight as well as that girl was stupid beyond belief, but that's really it.

For one thing, corporations aren't right-wing organizations, and those who favor the corporations are not right-wingers. Corporations are cronies, in bed with big government, and the two of them conspire together to oppress everyone else. Granted, this axis of opinion is somewhat veiled by the Hamiltonian big government poseurs in the Republican party, but the Republicans are not conservatives, or vice versa.

For another, the women who got remarried is NOT portrayed as being in the right in the least.

Blogger Mark Citadel August 03, 2015 1:35 PM  

They either light their own funeral pyre, or let us do it for them. They can't win either way.

Anonymous Bz August 03, 2015 1:38 PM  

"a chance in hell of being SFWA President."

Come to think of it, wasn't that episode a very instructive example of backroom dealing by the shining exemplars of SJW SF? By their acts, you shall know them. I'm sure PNH and Tor are busily continuing their deals as we speak.

Alas, that the prize diminishes as they squeal and whisper and grub for it. Nothing says fan value like shameless award manipulation by a publisher.

Blogger Masha K. August 03, 2015 1:42 PM  

@38: The scenes with the woman fighting did take me out of the story as well (granted, she sucker punched him TWICE, but when was able to physically subdue him while grappling on the floor, I was just rolling my eyes.)

As for the ex, to me it just showed the unfairness of the family court system more than anything else. Just because she asked for a restraining order, the court didn't have to grant it. But of course her fiancée was a cop, so that might have something to do with it as well.

All of that having been said, Marvel is not stupid and I hope this is as left as they go if they want to continue having an unbroken stream of blockbusters.

Anonymous Dr. J August 03, 2015 1:44 PM  

@Nate "There is only one God ma'am... and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that."

Best line in any of the Marvel movies - can't believe it made the final cut.

OpenID malcolmthecynic August 03, 2015 1:49 PM  

@40

I had a longer comment, but it got deleted, so the short version: The corporation stuff just seemed very "Occupy Wall Street"-ish to me.

The stuff with his wife just annoyed me. Suffice to say that I disagree with you - I think they were pretty clear that she was supposed to be in the right.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 03, 2015 1:50 PM  

Unless the Soron put up the money for astroturfers I'll guess the puppies beat out no award. The libtards I know wouldn't give a penny to another person, only lip service rhetoric.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 1:57 PM  

"
The stuff with his wife just annoyed me. Suffice to say that I disagree with you - I think they were pretty clear that she was supposed to be in the right"

I think they portrayed her as a bitch. I certainly didn't like her... bu then.. I really didn't like many of the characters at all... other than Pym.

Anonymous Obvious August 03, 2015 1:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 1:58 PM  

But again... go back to the recent Avengers movie. Remember the whole bit about Black Widow's issues related to her being unable to have kids... and how being around Hawkeye's family effected her?

This is VERY unPC ground here.

You can't just wash it away and say "MARVEL IS LEFTIST!" when they are putting stuff like that in there that is obviously making feminist heads 'splode.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 2:00 PM  

"Yeah. You guys REALLY don't care. "

No dumbass.

We don't care what you think about us... or our objectives.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz August 03, 2015 2:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger CarpeOro August 03, 2015 2:07 PM  

Regarding Marvel, don't forget the new Captain America is black in the books (place holder for the original as has been done before or new direction? Unknown at present).

Marvel movies - new Fantastic Four couldn't be all white and adults. New one is what, teens/early twenties and Human Torch is black. So, yeah Marvel movies are starting to slide not just left but likely off the box office winner list. Will money win out and pull them back? Also remains to be seen.

OpenID malcolmthecynic August 03, 2015 2:08 PM  

And no, both Avengers movies are very un-PC. Great stuff.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 2:11 PM  

"Marvel movies - new Fantastic Four couldn't be all white and adults. New one is what, teens/early twenties and Human Torch is black. So, yeah Marvel movies are starting to slide not just left but likely off the box office winner list. Will money win out and pull them back? Also remains to be seen."

The fantastic four movies have always been the most leftist Marvel movies and they've always been the worst and least successful. They simply have no idea how to deal with that franchise.

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 03, 2015 2:15 PM  

"sure.. but the fact is sci fi customers like Star Wars... not Queers Dig Timelords. "

Dr Who has been a British staple since the days of black & white TV its only in recent years that had gender & race bending. Dr Who has been on the air since 1963 either as new or reruns, it has not just been queers watching it.

will be related to Marvel, Star Wars, or Star Trek. Then enlist those fan communities

"If you where a tran - wookie my love." The hugo award winning tale of a wookie in a huts body. by Moochell Obama

Marvel? Examples?

Bisexual blatino spiderman, black nick fury (wears eye patch b/c a woman he raped), Thor ribbed for her pleasure.

The fact that every thing went "Radio silent" suggest that they Maybe industrial vote shredders jam radio signals.

We know the thief is a "good guy" because he only steals from evilly evil one-percenters,

No point in stealing from the poor.

The libtards I know wouldn't give a penny to another person, only lip service rhetoric.

The woman that bought votes only managed to get enough money to gether to buy 75, Tim Geithner's brother is willing to pay more than that to be screwed for an hour.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 03, 2015 2:16 PM  

Regarding Marvel, don't forget the new Captain America is black in the books (place holder for the original as has been done before or new direction? Unknown at present).

The books have become unrelentingly SJW. Which is why hardly any of them sell anymore, and the movies is where the corporation has turned its attention.

Marvel movies - new Fantastic Four couldn't be all white and adults. New one is what, teens/early twenties and Human Torch is black. So, yeah Marvel movies are starting to slide not just left but likely off the box office winner list. Will money win out and pull them back? Also remains to be seen.

FF is not a Marvel movie. As with Spiderman and the X-men, the movie rights were sold before Marvel was in the business of making movies, so Marvel can't make a FF movie unless Fox reverts the rights back for whatever reason.

OpenID gregq August 03, 2015 2:23 PM  

Link to A Puppy's post / comment?

Anonymous Obvious August 03, 2015 2:26 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger luagha August 03, 2015 2:36 PM  

On Ant-Man, I thought the point at the beginning of the movie indicated that Scott Lang wasn't much of a fighter - he was barely adequate. But he did have agility and parkouring type skills.

Blogger Josh August 03, 2015 2:39 PM  

black nick fury

That's not SJW or PC because Samuel Jackson is a badass motherfucker.

OpenID gregq August 03, 2015 2:42 PM  

The fact that the most obnoxious, most toxic elements of the proper fandom cliche have essentially gone into radio silence the last few months is essentially all the evidence we need to know that they are working behind the scenes to get No Award done in peace and seclusion. These are not people who are afraid to make demands and to institute a whisper campaign.

1: WTF? Where have you been? Irene and the other CHROFs have been out and proud and obnoxious for some time.

2: It's been my experience that SJWs and other lefties are very happy to spend other people's money, but very loath to spend their own. So I will be shocked if it turns out that even a large majority of those 3000+ extra Sustaining Memberships came from anti-puppies.

3: The big question is : how many people voted this year? If it's 4000 or less, I expect us to win big. If it's 6000+, it will probably be a night of "No Award".

4: But it's quite possible that votes will be over 4000, and we'll still win a fair amount. That would be "The publicity got a lot more members to actually give a damn, read, and vote,." And since the Puppy works are better than most the crap that's been nominated in previous years, and most of the non-Puppy crap nominated this year, those newly engaged voters who actually download their voters packs won't be doing a lot of No Award.

5: There isn't a chance in hell that the Hugo Administrators will "throw" the count. If they were going to do something like that, they would have done it at the nomination counting stage.
A: It would have been more believable. Hell, if it had been reported that we'd gotten 4 / 5 in all the categories where we actually got 5 / 5, we still would have been ecstatic.
B: They would have had much longer to fake up the data to make it look reasonable.
C: The people doing the work are honorable people, and "stopping" the Puppies for a year wouldn't be worth the cost to their self images.

6: I have no idea whether or not they buy Rockets for the "No Award". Does anybody know what happened last time No Award was given? If "No Award" == no rocket, then we may get leaks just from other people finding out how many Rockets get bought / have plaques put on them. But I expect the Hugo Admins will be keeping their mouths shut.

7: Numbers I'd love to have: How many people voted? How many voters were Supporting Members.

Blogger Danby August 03, 2015 2:48 PM  

The fantastic four movies have always been the most leftist Marvel movies and they've always been the worst and least successful. They simply have no idea how to deal with that franchise.

That's because they don't understand that the hero of the F4 series is Dr. Victor von Doom.

Blogger Anthony August 03, 2015 3:10 PM  

@48 - there's a difference between Vox believing that he *should* win and that he *would* win the SFWA presidency. I'm sure anyone could dig up a few posts where Vox said that he *should* win. However, you claimed that he said that he *would* win. Got a citation?

Blogger Cail Corishev August 03, 2015 3:12 PM  

It seems to me they drop a lot of stuff into those movies that can be interpreted one way if you think about it, but will probably be seen another way by most. For instance, in the ultra-bad Affleckian Daredevil (which says it's Marvel, but I guess that could refer to the source material, not the movie), the warrior chick can barely beat a blind man, and Bullseye takes her out without much of a fight at all. So....realistic, kinda? On the other hand, the movie gives her an entire scene of chopping at bags of rice, complete with rock music, and clearly means for you to think she's a total badass. And an audience raised on warrior chicks probably comes away thinking just that.

In what I guess is now the next-to-last FF, Ben walks into a bar and meets an attractive, black, blind woman who's immediately presented as super-wise, and even refers to God as female. It's like they asked casting for a Magical Negro and got one so perfect that they had to make her blind so audiences could stand her.

On the other hand, he's there because his wife, who apparently was waiting in a pretty negligee to welcome him home from space, pretty much instantly dumped him on seeing his transformation. No questions, no talking to the scientists, no waiting to see if it was temporary. Just, "Ack, you're scary now; here's your ring back!" So, do you come away from the movie with the lesson that women are disloyal and will turn on you as soon as something goes wrong, or that black women are better than everyone? Probably depends on what you believed going in, and what you've seen in hundreds of other movies.

Speaking of warrior chicks, the "Rousey could beat a man" nonsense is making the rounds again after this weekend.

Anonymous IsMise August 03, 2015 3:21 PM  

"That's because they don't understand that the hero of the F4 series is Dr. Victor von Doom."
Well, yeah.

Anonymous Obvious August 03, 2015 4:06 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous BGS August 03, 2015 4:12 PM  

"Rousey could beat a man" nonsense is making the rounds again after this weekend"

She can A man named Scalzi ,"played to the turn of Firefly's A Man Named Jane

OpenID malcolmthecynic August 03, 2015 4:18 PM  

@64

All good points, Cail. I think you're right.

Anonymous Keith August 03, 2015 4:44 PM  

Fables from DC vertigo by bill willingham and steve leiahola. It just ended in july plenty of acclaim and sales. Two of the "controversies" it has been involved in over the years were being seen as pro-Israel and pro traditional marriage vows when snow white married the big bad wolf by saying "love, honor, and obey".

Anonymous Geoff August 03, 2015 4:53 PM  

Judging by my Twitter feed, Rousey has quickly become a significant role model for young girls, which tells you all you need to know about the state of Western culture today.

Blogger Alia D. August 03, 2015 4:59 PM  

I’d say a “Why Science is Never Settled” vote represents SM bought by political conservatives (brought in the Instapundit links and the like) looking more for a culture wars proxy rather science fiction specific stuff. I would agree it’s an unlikely win but with Australian rules voting who knows what could happen.

Anonymous nrrl August 03, 2015 5:12 PM  

I would love to see the Graphic Novel category get flooded with unlicensed manga. Although I suppose Knights of Sidonia is licensed, and it's one of the best science fiction stories of the decade.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2015 5:14 PM  

The Kurgan speaks truly.

My predictions are as follows:

The Dark Lord will win a Hugo and celebrate by taking his yacht Disco Volante out on Lake Como to hand-feed SJW-meat to Narciso, his pet kraken.

George Rape Rape Martin will be raped, raped and then eaten by an amorous-yet-peckish 14ft tall cyborg chicken that escapes from a secret underground KFC research facility. A coroner will officially record the cause of death as "irony".

David Gerrold's head and bowels will assplode like that guy in Scanners.

Connie Willis will finally have that mental breakdown she's been working on, but it won't make any difference to the quality of her writing.

Philip Sandifer will shave, burn all his My Little Pony hentai, and move out of his parents' house. He'll then drift from town to town on his motorcycle, befriending the locals and using his English PhD to thwart bad guys and solve mysteries.

Blogger Danby August 03, 2015 5:37 PM  

Philip Sandifer will shave, burn all his My Little Pony hentai, and move out of his parents' house.

Notta chance. Well, might shave.

Anonymous zen0 August 03, 2015 5:39 PM  

> He'll then drift from town to town on his (motorcycle,)

Electric assist bicycle

Anonymous BGS August 03, 2015 6:00 PM  

He'll then drift from town to town on his (motorcycle,) Electric assist bicycle Sorry couldn't help but think of this record setting bike event. google white people stole my bike, do you mean black people stole my bike

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-300-cycle-solidarity-20150801-story.html

"The 300 Men March, which has held several 10-mile marches along the stretch of North Avenue and back, for the first time rode bikes to promote the message also printed on their black T-shirts: "We must stop killing each other."
The west-to-east Baltimore bike ride took place after 45 people were killed in July, tying a monthly record set in August 1972, when the city had about 275,000 more residents.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee #151 August 03, 2015 6:05 PM  

"Yeah. You guys REALLY don't care."

If you're looking for a qualifier on the slogan, it's that we don't care what you think.

Blogger GK Chesterton August 03, 2015 6:24 PM  

@21

MM - There are several. There is "Girl Thor". There is the Spidey re-write. Of course there is the older Ultimate Colossus thing too. I have to admit I haven't read many comics since the 90's for the same reason that there is a RP/SP fight in the Hugos now.

@26

"With Marvel I think its clear that the upper management have their eyes on the movie world. That is giving the SJWs room for crap like Girl Thor. But note that you don't see the PC BS in the movies. Look at the last avengers. The scenes with Hawkeye's family and wife are distinctly anti-SJW."

I'd say Marvel Movies are conflicted about this. For example see the new Fantastic Four cast. I'm not sure how that is going to work out at all (was Torch adopted? I also don't remember him being interested in science so much since he was the "action thinker").

Ant-Man was good minus the sop for "you aren't a good guy and can't see your kids unless you pay up on child support no matter how sucky your life is."

@48

"he threw Irene Gallo under the bus to distract from the Nebula weekend"

What's fascinating is I am definitely to the left of most of the commenters here and did _not_ like Vox when I first read him. What brought me back was flat lies like this one (and I am not responding to the banned troll just commenting on the rhetoric). How does one throw an enemy under the bus? You throw a _friend_ under the bus. I was here during the SFWA election and to my knowledge he never claimed he could win. He just ran. And how are we, exactly, supposed to do anything about the Nebula Awards given the whole contention behind Sad Puppies?

It is stuff like this that will just create more VFMs.

Anonymous T August 03, 2015 6:39 PM  

The new Daredevil on Netflix certainly didn't seem left, with the bad guy being a well-meaning collectivist who thinks breaking eggs for his omelette is okay, and his adversary being someone who bends and breaks the rules to ensure people can live their own lives.

Blogger byronfrombyron August 03, 2015 6:42 PM  

As far as the graphic novels:

I definitely agree on Fables. It's criminal that it got passed over in the past for Girl Genius. Also,vindication at last would be nice for this huge series.

The Fuse is really good. Police procedural in a big dumb object.

I will look over the year more as we get closer. Good art deserves recognition, and it does exist, even in graphic novels.

Anonymous Wat Tyler August 03, 2015 6:44 PM  

"Still, I will donate $40 next year."

Price next year is $50. Set last year before this round of fireworks.

Blogger Nate August 03, 2015 6:49 PM  

"I'd say Marvel Movies are conflicted about this. For example see the new Fantastic Four cast. "

We've covered this. FF is not a Marvel movie.

Anonymous dh August 03, 2015 6:51 PM  

Marvel will not go full leftist retard, especially the part that Disney controls (i.e. everything except what was sold to Fox or Sony).

Marvel along with Lucas is the natural counterweight to the Disney princess, fairytale, and girl segment. It was obvious that Disney had a problem selling to boys after several of their movies were very heavily viewed only by little girls. Marvel is the fix.

Disney is definitely a left-orientated company, but they are also a company that believes in gender roles and that boys and girls have different interests. The rest of the marketing about being inclusive is fine, but the bottom line is that they have spent billions and billions of dollars acquiring entertainment that boys and men like, instead of trying to convince those same boys and men that they actually like the other stuff they put out.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2015 6:52 PM  

Danby - it could happen.

What if there are other, parallel universes next door, and in some of them the Sandman took a different path in life, one that led away from basement-dwelling social justibation, away from beardy homeless-wizard-looking incelitude, up, up and away from novelty TARDIS-shaped fleshlights and his poor Mum having to fetch the tongs to remove curdled-smelling crusty socks from her son's room?

What if there are an infinite number of Sandmen in the metaverse who are... cool guys? Who may - even this very moment - know the gentle, sensuous touch of a woman in love?

zen0 - even so, it's got to be more dignified than Rachel Swirsky's rascal.

Anonymous Obvious August 03, 2015 7:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 August 03, 2015 8:01 PM  

> to members of the Ilk thinking he had a chance,

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAA.

HAA.

Now that's funny.

Anonymous Jonathan August 03, 2015 8:36 PM  

I just read the essay on science by Tedd Roberts. Seems a pretty good essay for lay people.

Blogger Edward Isaacs August 03, 2015 8:53 PM  

"If I was Kate the Impaler, this is the direction I would take next year. 100% big Hollywood tie's get nominated. Everything will be related to Marvel, Star Wars, or Star Trek. Then enlist those fan communities. The Disney people especially are legion and fanatical to a degree that the average Torling can't even imagine."

If only there were a way to get the bronies involved...

Blogger CM August 03, 2015 8:55 PM  

If only there were a way to get the bronies involved...

That ship sailed with the Cutie Map pt 1 & 2 episodes.

Those episodes deserved awards.

Anonymous Fp August 03, 2015 9:18 PM  

"They will burn their own fields and kill their own animals, and they'll probably do this every year from here until they make the Hugos into the Nebulas."

That's why Vox should burn down the Hugo's and salt the fields.

Blogger Frit Bat August 03, 2015 10:07 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CARuMPsfGA

could you comment?

leaperman

Anonymous Anonymous August 03, 2015 10:20 PM  

Cail - I have male friends who poor deluded Miss Rousey could defeat, I feel bad I don't encourage them enough to go the gym; BGS - lots of acceptable women will marry exiles from the nihilistic gay life, read Proverbs 8 and 31:10-31 and ask a trusted friend for advice; GKC: gluttony is a sin, as are suggestions from silly little belletrists as to ways to be mean to their fellow Englishmen (estrella de amarillo, anyone?). Your moniker choice, who did much good and, sad to say, much bad, is, one hopes, in heaven, but unless you are sure that is true, the stained glass windows of churches around the world - Mr Kolbe and Miss Stein included, encourage you to pray for him with fervor and love.

Blogger automatthew August 03, 2015 10:21 PM  

Anonymous, pick a name, please.

You can use the Name/URL option in the "Comment as:" menu. No need to fill in the URL.

Blogger luagha August 03, 2015 10:22 PM  

@88

Those go on next year's Hugo's for certain.

Anonymous Anonymous August 03, 2015 10:24 PM  

Sorry to post as anonymous at 10:20. The other non-anonymous options erased my comments - DC Red Dogs.

Anonymous dc red dogs August 03, 2015 10:30 PM  

GKC - I personally am certain that GKC is in Heaven, having prayed for that and knowing that God grants such prayers (the granting of such prayers is one of the promises that can be found in each of the four gospels). But forty years of reading about him leads me to believe most of his fans do not have that certainty, I apologize if I do not know you well enough to know if you have that certainty or not.

Anonymous RCPete August 03, 2015 10:57 PM  

@94

I've found that it will tend to eat comments the first attempt with name/URL. I learned to shove my comment onto the clipboard so I can repaste if necessary.

Still lurking on puppies. Never got into Fandom and the budget was tight, but it's looser now. Next year, I suspect. Bronies? Oh My!

Anonymous dc red dogs August 03, 2015 11:17 PM  

RC Pete = good advice, but since I have no idea how to manipulate a clipboard, I just try and remember what I was trying to say and then I retype it again after the first attempt is deleted. God knows how much happier I would be if that technique worked in one's non-internet life, 1978 might have been an ideal year for me and I might have thirty grandkids by now.

Anonymous RCPete August 04, 2015 12:11 AM  

red dog: I'm talking about a trick that's been buried in Windows for a long time. To put stuff on the clipboard, highlight it, and type CTRL-C. If Shub-Blogger eats your comment, you can paste it with CTRL-X. You can get fancy and use a mouse (cut/copy and paste), but this will do.

Growing old is a pain, but it beats the alternative. At least that's what I tell myself as I creak out of bed...

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 04, 2015 12:21 AM  

I think it's best to have no delusions of what a minority the Puppies are compared to the rest of fandom.

Not so fast, and that depends. There are "formal" and "informal" puppies. There are sad puppies and rabid puppies. There are also "supporters of puppies" which would be the conservative echelons of fandom. They are a majority in fandom. SJW's are very skillful in seizing power, even when they're in the minority (e.g. the minority Bolsheviks in 1917 seizing power over the majority Mensheviks).

Only the awards announcements will tell, and only then if the SJW's haven't managed to corrupt and pervert the process as they always strive to do.

My best is...big win for Puppydom. But I've always been susceptible to creeping optimism.

Blogger SciVo August 04, 2015 12:26 AM  

Paste is Ctrl-V. Ctrl-X is cut and copy.

Anonymous dc red dogs August 04, 2015 12:26 AM  

RCPete - thanks, I got it now . Control C and Control X, in order...yes, growing old is a good choice when the other choice is missing so much of life that comes after the short years of being young ...

Blogger SciVo August 04, 2015 12:31 AM  

To add, it's easy to highlight the whole comment with Ctrl-A. Just six keystrokes total to copy and paste.

Anonymous RCPete August 04, 2015 12:33 AM  

Errk! SciVo got it: CTRL-C, CTRL-V. The fingers know, but the brain...

Hmm, looks like if you Preview, it doesn't get eaten as often, if ever.

Blogger SciVo August 04, 2015 12:33 AM  

Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C, Publish, cuss, Ctrl-V.

Blogger Groot August 04, 2015 2:02 AM  

@35. Migly:

At least, we don't think the Hugos were named after Hugo Chavez.

Blogger Migly August 04, 2015 2:18 AM  

6: I have no idea whether or not they buy Rockets for the "No Award". Does anybody know what happened last time No Award was given? If "No Award" == no rocket, then we may get leaks just from other people finding out how many Rockets get bought / have plaques put on them. But I expect the Hugo Admins will be keeping their mouths shut.

That's an interesting thought experiment. So far as I know the rockets are still made by the same company I ordered them from in 1996 (when it was run by Peter Weston). We needed to give them a few months advance warning to manufacture and send us the rockets, which then were attached to bases made by two local artists. Based on my experience, I think they probably ordered enough rockets to cover potential winners in all categories.

Blogger VD August 04, 2015 3:02 AM  

Mike, why would you think the Rabids are guided in any way by what Brad Torgersen thinks? That doesn't make any sense at all!

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 6:35 AM  

"Judging by my Twitter feed, Rousey has quickly become a significant role model for young girls, which tells you all you need to know about the state of Western culture today."

Nuke America. For that matter, nuke the world.

Btw, if you believe Rousey couldn't beat a significant part of the male population, you're insane.

Seriously, I'd pay good money to have you two fight each other. No matter who loses, I win.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 6:36 AM  

Rousey is one of the most maladjusted people I've ever seen. A real POS.

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Blogger ScuzzaMan August 04, 2015 7:07 AM  

Missing the point, Tommy. What part of the male population with 10 profeesional bouts could she defeat ?

Nobody has ever denied that the curves overlap.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 04, 2015 7:16 AM  

Actually, I think some people have claimed she couldn't beat any man, professional or not. I'll have to defer to guys with more fighting knowledge on that. But I watched a couple of her TKOs yesterday, and the punches didn't look like they'd take out the average 12-year-old boy.

If I picture her fighting Scalzi, I see her swarming him and him crawling into a ball and tapping out because he's overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do. But it's harder to picture her hurting and stopping him, if he were actually determined to fight.

Blogger ScuzzaMan August 04, 2015 7:21 AM  

Yes, but she's a **bantam-weight", ffs. Not all women are. Even so, there are adult males smaller, less experienced, and perhaps weaker.

The curves DO overlap, even if she's not in that part of the curve.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 04, 2015 8:16 AM  

FYI,

Our most esteemed JCW recently became a full time writer. As a fan, this is exciting news. Unfortunately his creditors are ambivalent and his family needs to eat. Drop some change in his tip jar now and maybe he'll crank out an extra trilogy for next year or something.

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/shanghaied-for-a-thank-you/

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 9:30 AM  

"Yes, but she's a **bantam-weight", ffs. Not all women are. Even so, there are adult males smaller, less experienced, and perhaps weaker. "

dude... no.

even a low level male fighters would destroy her. In fact... the vast majority of untrained guys would break her in half in seconds. She's small. She's weak. And she's very very slow.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 9:39 AM  

"the vast majority of untrained guys would break her in half in seconds."

xDDDD

Seriously Nate, lay off the crackpipe.

"She's small. She's weak. And she's very very slow."

Based on what exactly? Protip: just because Vox said something, doesn't mean it's true.

Btw, she looks like a fucking truckdriver when not cutting.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 9:43 AM  

"But I watched a couple of her TKOs yesterday, and the punches didn't look like they'd take out the average 12-year-old boy."

She could likely beat the average 12 year old boy into a coma, mostly because beating 12 year old boys into a coma isn't that hard.

Also, what part of JUDO do you not get? How would a huge part of males even manage to stay on their feet? A lot of people have shitty balance. Hard to beat Ronda to death when you're off balance/ on your back.

I mean if you land a blow, you can likely swarm and destroy her, but that only puts you on the same level as Bob Sapp against most of his opponents.

And yes I am aware that men are more explosive than women. What you don't take into account: unathletic men often get outrun by women. Also, if there is this much of a gap in ability, your hulk strength doesn't suffice.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 9:45 AM  

"Based on what exactly? Protip: just because Vox said something, doesn't mean it's true. "

I've followed MMA since it was fat dudes head butting each other. Watching her fight after watching guys fight is like watching the guys in slow motion. Its pathetic.

I frequently go to live events... low level regional events with guys who will never make it to the big leagues. Again.. comparing them to her is like comparing NFL players to high school players. The difference is that obvious.

and Tommy... I don't know what you think truck drivers look like.. but I guarantee you... she ain't it.

So she walks around at 150? wow really? I'm a small guy Tommy... and I'm 190.

What do you think she benches? squats? curls?

I'll bet its jack shit.

Blogger Josh August 04, 2015 9:47 AM  

Any male fighter could easily shoulder press rousey.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 9:48 AM  

"Also, what part of JUDO do you not get? How would a huge part of males even manage to stay on their feet? A lot of people have shitty balance. Hard to beat Ronda to death when you're off balance/ on your back. "

Jesus... you really don't get this...

Hoss... Rhonda is not strong enough, or fast enough, to hurt the average adult male. Much less an adult male with actual fight experience.

Her punches are weak and slow. She could land them all day long and it wouldn't matter. And all her magic judo shit would mean less than nothing when he just picks her up and throws her on her head until she dies.

Anonymous Geoff August 04, 2015 9:55 AM  

I was watching the Crossfit Championships on the weekend. Those women look like they would crush Rousey.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 9:55 AM  

think about this... Rhonda gets Male X in her vaunted arm bar.

***whooops*** Male X just flexes his am... stands up... and clubs her into the mat.

we've seen men do this to other men... much less small, slow, weak little girls.

Blogger Student in Blue August 04, 2015 9:59 AM  

Nate, pretty sure no one was disputing the fighter aspect of it, but rather a claim that *any* male, fighter or not, could take her on.

Blogger Student in Blue August 04, 2015 10:00 AM  

I stand corrected. Tommy tried to dispute the fighter part of it.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:03 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9xjs2fWJEs

Watch that video Rousey fans. There is your girl... "sparring" with a middle weight. That's a man that fights at 185.

Look how tiny she looks. Notice how fast she gets winded. Notice how relaxed he is. he isn't trying. He's literally toying with her the way you toy with your kids when trying to teach them to wrestle.

If this doesn't put your questions to rest... you're simply incapable of learning.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 04, 2015 10:06 AM  

Thing is, people calling for her to fight a man aren't talking about a Bobby Riggs scenario. They don't want her to fight Bob Barker or Peter Dinklage. They're talking about an MMA fighter in her weight class -- maybe a small-timer or amateur, but a guy who's been in the ring before.

A guy like that would destroy her, and she and the fighters all know that, which is why it hasn't happened. But to hear people on Twitter, it's because all the men are afraid she'd win and embarrass them. Heck, after the Mayweather fight, there were people saying she should fight him, because he only knows boxing, and because Arm! Bar!

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:07 AM  

"and Tommy... I don't know what you think truck drivers look like.. but I guarantee you... she ain't it."

I meant dyke truckers, lol.

"I frequently go to live events... low level regional events with guys who will never make it to the big leagues. Again.. comparing them to her is like comparing NFL players to high school players. The difference is that obvious."

It's probably even bigger. Then again, THOSE ARE FIGHTERS. Guys who have some athletic talent and know fighting 101 at least.

"I'll bet its jack shit."

But the same is true for most guys.

"***whooops*** Male X just flexes his am... stands up... and clubs her into the mat."

This guy actually thinks that you can overpower her legs, glutes, core etc with just your bicep, lmao.

" And all her magic judo shit would mean less than nothing when he just picks her up and throws her on her head until she dies."

I doubt it's as easy as you imagine it to be.


Seriously, it's hilarious to see mentally retarded shertards pretending that Ronda actually stands anything but an infinitestimally small hail mary chance on one side and people that seriously claim the average male would not only win, but "break her in half in seconds".

Reality would probably be closer to Bob Sapp in his early days whenever he fought someone who actually deserved to be famous for fighting.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:16 AM  

"Seriously, it's hilarious to see mentally retarded shertards pretending that Ronda actually stands anything but an infinitestimally small hail mary chance on one side and people that seriously claim the average male would not only win, but "break her in half in seconds"."

I think generally it comes from our differing perceptions on what the 'average' male looks like and is.

The average male where I am from is about about 6 foot tall and weighs between 190 and 225. They are big dudes. They work for a living... doing real physical work. They are strong... and they are tough... and they've all been in plenty of fights.

Rhonda has no idea what aggression really is. She thinks aggression is her charging some chick.

Male aggression is completely different... on a completely different scale. The speed, strength, and fury of the onslaught of yes... your average male... would wreck her shit.

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 10:17 AM  

BGS - lots of acceptable women will marry exiles from the nihilistic gay life,

Even an 18yo Mexican boy would be better than a feminist.

Btw, if you believe Rousey couldn't beat a significant part of the male population, you're insane.

Only those who wouldn't hit what they are told is a girl. Caitlyn Jenner would win against the same amount. Rousey's arms are 1/2 the size of Serena's.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:17 AM  

"Watch that video Rousey fans. There is your girl... "sparring" with a middle weight. That's a man that fights at 185."

Because he cuts like 30 pounds of water weight. This guy is AT LEAST 205 solid. AT LEAST.

You must be surrounded by giants if Mousasi doesn't look swole/big to you. He would dwarf me as well. Then again, I'm a bit of a manlet.

What you don't take into account: Mousasi would more or less do the same to these "average dudes" whom you claim could "break her in half in a few seconds".

Also, I never claimed that most male fighters would lose. Hell she would get crushed by just about all of them.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:20 AM  

I think I now understand what Nate means.

I see you point. But it would have to be truly savage aggression. If they fight like they're in a sports bout, the strength goes to waste.

Blogger Bill August 04, 2015 10:21 AM  

I am always amazed at these conversations about women fighting. The Army has done extensive studies in this area, the length of the studies varies depending on how long it takes to walk to the gym - after that they all take about 30 seconds. Men are about 4x stronger, about 10% faster, and can take WAY more abuse before a crippling injury occurs.

I like watching bouts between the entry-level guys. They fight like a typical guy you'd meet that works out but really isn't a pro-level fighter (just not the same level of natural talent). Watch how they take a punch, watch how they keep focused, this is what a fight looks like. The gloves are just leather, not really padded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNHXWK4quTY#t=9m

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:25 AM  

"Because he cuts like 30 pounds of water weight. This guy is AT LEAST 205 solid. AT LEAST."

Most people really have no idea just how big americans are until they come here and walk through a mall.

205 isn't big here. He's just a guy. He's not a small guy.. he's not a big guy. Just a guy.

He is in great shape... but size wise... he's not big.

Blogger David-093 August 04, 2015 10:26 AM  

In a way I feel bad for Rousey. People everywhere talk as if she could beat male fighters, when she knows she can't, which kinda spoils her winning over the other women she's fought. It's like they can't be satisfied that she's the best female fighter, that she has to be the best fighter period and she knows that's not going to happen despite all the hype.

I doubt she's losing sleep over it, but it just shows how unbalanced our society is.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:27 AM  

Big Guys here are like... 6'7 320

REALLY big guys are a like 6'6 425... and some of them can beat you in raquetball.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:29 AM  

"I like watching bouts between the entry-level guys. "

I do too... plus... sometimes you get to see a true brutal beat down between a really talented new guy and an average new guy.

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 04, 2015 10:33 AM  

Actually tommy might have a point about a number of men she could defeat."Nearly 1 in 5 People Have a Disability in the U.S., Census Bureau Reports Report Released to Coincide with 22nd Anniversary of the ADA"

Oh never mind Puerto Ricans can collect social security disability for not speaking English.

I am reminded of hearing a woman tell a boy that was not her son who was crying from being hit in the face by another boy say "you shouldn't cry I get punched in the face every day" . I used my loud outdoor military voice "Your face looks pretty good for getting punched in the face every day, I had a roommate in the military who could press his nose down flat from being in so many bar fights & he could go weeks without getting punched in the face .What's your secret?" It turned out she kickboxed with other girls 2x a week with gloves and pads.

"Because he cuts like 30 pounds of water weight. This guy is AT LEAST 205 solid. AT LEAST."

In America we have 5' tall women over 205 pounds.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:35 AM  

I believe my Bob Sapp analogy was sound. He could theoretically crush everybody he fought but wasn't expected to do so because....well he was a shit fighter, who had a gas tank for 1-2 minutes and couldn't take a punch at all.

A guy weighing 170 (normal, not ripped), 5'11'' with no experience in fighting sports and only a couple of fistfights in his life is not going to break her, or rather, you would be optimistic in betting the farm on him doing so.

Anonymous And now.... a Hallmark moment August 04, 2015 10:37 AM  

"Nuke America. For that matter, nuke the world."

- Tommy Hass

Blogger Bill August 04, 2015 10:40 AM  

You take the average guy, 170 at 5'11", or whatever (anybody that can run for a mile and still be alive). Work him four to six hours per day for about two months, and he'd crush her before you could chug a beer.

Blogger luagha August 04, 2015 10:44 AM  

You all are looking at it in the wrong way.

It's not whether or not Rousey can beat a man.

It's that any man she CAN beat is an incompetent pathetic wimp. She sets the bar.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 10:44 AM  

Rousey won't even fight Cyborg at catch weight, much less a man at any weight.

Why? She's not stupid.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:47 AM  

"A guy weighing 170 (normal, not ripped), 5'11'' with no experience in fighting sports and only a couple of fistfights in his life is not going to break her, or rather, you would be optimistic in betting the farm on him doing so."

Again... you're ignoring the fact that men are significantly more savage than women... and its HIGHLY unlikely that Rousey has ever experienced anything like that.

The famous "fight" in that movie theater was ultimately her being an idiot and two guys who didn't fight back because she's female. if they had.. she'd have gone to the hospital.

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 04, 2015 10:48 AM  

A guy weighing 170 (normal, not ripped), 5'11'' with no experience in fighting sports and only a couple of fistfights in his life

If you are talking street fighting with no gloves or pads (except menstrual) there is even less of a chance of her beating an average guy that is willing to hit her. If that is the case there are gay men and drag queens I would be willing to bet on against her. "rousey said bad things about RuPaul, Lady Gaga, & Madona," 10 seconds later Rousey is on the ground bleeding missing some teeth.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 10:48 AM  

and Money? moron thinks she could take Money?

bitch please.

Blogger Salt August 04, 2015 10:51 AM  

Watch that video Rousey fans. There is your girl...

I hear her breathing. Not him. It's probably just practice for him; "Yeah, this is how I'll do my girl tonight. Take her from behind."

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 04, 2015 10:51 AM  

"In a way I feel bad for Rousey. People everywhere talk as if she could beat male fighters, when she knows she can't"

Then she should have tried to tone down expectations like her mother did, instead of running her mouth and feeding into it for ego/fame. When it comes time to cash that ego check I will laugh long and hard. And I will not feel bad for her in the least. Until she steps into the ring with a male opponent she's a joke, and her defenders beclown themselves with their grrrl power blather.

See: Fallon Fox.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:53 AM  

Those two "guys" were 14 year old boys. Pretty sure she would've beaten them regardless of what they did.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 10:57 AM  

"rousey said bad things about RuPaul, Lady Gaga, & Madona"

Why do you homos like degenerate copycats so much?

"and Money? moron thinks she could take Money?"

She is so full of shit, her eyeballs are brown.

Blogger GK Chesterton August 04, 2015 10:57 AM  

"Then she should have tried to tone down expectations like her mother did,"

I've only been watching on and off for the last couple of years since I didn't do any martial arts until very late in life. After I did some I could appreciate what was going on inside the ring more. So I don't understand the comments about her mom. Was she a fighter too?

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 04, 2015 11:02 AM  

Those two "guys" were 14 year old boys. Pretty sure she would've beaten them regardless of what they did.

I just remembered Tommy is a Turk, I have not fought with 14yo boys since I was under 14 , so I yield to Tommy's experience as an adult fighting boys. Has Tommy ever been in a street fight with no knives involved? Are the cops in Germany so PC that they would not arrest Tommy but would arrest me for delivering blows to 14yo boys on the street?

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 11:03 AM  

Yes.

She also is a feminist shrew that didn't bother changing her name. Is it a wonder her husband committed suicide. (jk, he had cancer. but still)

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 04, 2015 11:03 AM  

Her mom is a former Judo world champ.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/03/265436-ronda-rouseys-world-champion-judo-mom-weighs-daughter-says-beat-100-percent-men/

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 11:04 AM  

"Why do you homos like degenerate copycats so much?"

Answer plz

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 11:04 AM  

Is that yet to street fights with no knives or giving blows to 14yo boys?

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 11:06 AM  

"Why do you homos like degenerate copycats so much?"

The reason TV tropes exists is there are few new things that have not been done before in some way.

Is that yes to street fights with no knives or giving blows to 14yo boys?

Answer plz

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 11:13 AM  

"Why do you homos like degenerate copycats so much?"

Just like Guy Fawkes was the last man to enter parliament with honest intentions, the last original love song was sung by GWAR.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 11:13 AM  

Or course I've been in fights with no knives, lol.

Also, you're missing the point. I only mentioned the copycatting because it is an attribute these two share beyond being degenerate. It's not my central criticism.

It's like you brothers have a.......type.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 11:17 AM  

Streetfight Tommy is one tuff turk.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 11:18 AM  

Or course I've been in fights with no knives, lol.

IED's don't count, Streetfight Tommy.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 11:22 AM  

Do I look like an Arab to you?

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 11:24 AM  

I noticed you avoided the blows to 14yo boys question.

It's like you brothers have a.......type
One reason facebook is bad it that it has a like button but no dislike button, causing people to get validation for the craziest ideas, it leaves some addicted to validation. Until recently any singer that reached out to gays became popular with them simply for being on their side & validating them.

Anonymous BGS August 04, 2015 11:32 AM  

"Do I look like an Arab to you?"

Are you the one with long hair, earings and blue shirt on your blogger page? I can't believe I actually agree with Tommy about something, eating animals. How did I get to the point that youtube hides my comments but not tommy's. They have a system where you can comment and see your comment but it disappears when you log off and clear cookies for those that break the narrative. It censors people in a way they don't know they are censored. I guess its easier to dismiss a turk than a gay guy saying apple CEO Timmy Cook cried for a boy cot because he wouldn't be served pizza but cheerfully commences commerce with nations that execute gays.

Anonymous Steve August 04, 2015 11:33 AM  

Hmm. I don't agree with Tommy's fez-wearing policy. But I do approve of his world-nuking policy!

Anonymous Jack Amok August 04, 2015 11:34 AM  

Disney is definitely a left-orientated company, but they are also a company that believes in gender roles and that boys and girls have different interests.

Reminds me of the debate about whether Tomorrowland (another Disney property) was SJW or anit-SJW. Obviously there are many SJW entryists in media companies, but artists like to throw rocks at the establishment (when they can still get paid and not thrown in jail anyway), and it's a grand tradition to make fun of sanctimonious prigs.

I think we'll see more and more digs at and inversions of SJW themes in movies, and I think we'll start to see SJW harpies as the new Mr. Hand's.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 11:34 AM  

Do I look like an Arab to you?

All of those countries where the men dance with each other look the same to me.

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 11:58 AM  

"Do I look like an Arab to you?"

its a blog.

We can't see you.

And even if we could... the answer would probably be "yes". Because a rag head is a rag head.

Blogger Rabbi B August 04, 2015 12:11 PM  

"its a blog. We can't see you. And even if we could... "

Do I look like an Arab to you

Blogger ScuzzaMan August 04, 2015 12:19 PM  

Cruel and dirty people, the Arabs.

She'll come back with no hands and clap.

Blogger Alexander August 04, 2015 12:45 PM  

Tommy Hass sums up nicely why Iran won't bomb Israel.

Because there is nothing a Turk or a Persian hates more than being considered one-and-the-same as an Arab.

Iran won't bomb Israel for the benefit of the Arabs, and once ISIS goes ahead and accomplishes the dirty work that the Turks wish they could get away with doing, Turkey will have no truck for a bunch of Arabs thinking the caliphate belongs to them.

If the west declared tomorrow that there would be no investigation or retaliation for a dead Arab, this time next week Turkey and Iran would be back to their historical feud over where in Iraq was the national boundary.

Anonymous Viidad August 04, 2015 12:52 PM  

Turks ain't Arabs.

I have a Turkish middle name since I was almost born over there. The cultures only have a little overlap and the people are totally different.

They're more like Greeks than Arabs.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 1:13 PM  

"And even if we could... the answer would probably be "yes". Because a rag head is a rag head."

I look much more like a Mongol.

Blogger Bill August 04, 2015 1:22 PM  

They're more like Greeks than Arabs

Bah, the goats can't tell the difference.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 1:23 PM  

Turks ain't Arabs...They're more like Greeks than Arabs.

They all look the same if you're a sheep on a lonely saturday night.

Anonymous Porky August 04, 2015 1:24 PM  

Ha! Bill got there first!

Blogger Nate August 04, 2015 1:46 PM  

turks and greeks have nothing in common. Turks are abomination.

Greeks on the other hand formulated Western Civilization.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 04, 2015 2:03 PM  

Bah, the goats can't tell the difference.

I think you mean: Ba-a-a-a-ah, the goats can't tell the difference.

OpenID everybodyhatesscott August 04, 2015 2:07 PM  

REALLY big guys are a like 6'6 425... and some of them can beat you in raquetball.

I'm 6'2" 220 and do bjj and amateur mma (sparring not real cage fights). A few weeks ago I free rolled with a 17-18 year old kid. He had a few inches on me and 100+ lbs and I felt like a rag doll. There are some absolute giants out there who are also athletic.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 04, 2015 2:20 PM  

Back on topic: http://sasquan.org/2015/08/sasquan-announces-record-participation-in-the-2015-hugo-awards-voting/

So, @61: we'll see how good your predictions are shortly.

Anonymous Viidad August 04, 2015 2:20 PM  

"Greeks on the other hand formulated Western Civilization."

Nate says this for no particular reason at all.

Blogger Jack Ward August 04, 2015 2:46 PM  

OT Question: Anyone have any experience with the writtings and/or talks/books of Bill Bonner and his Agora organization? Is he worth reading?

Thanks

Blogger Groot August 04, 2015 2:53 PM  

Average height for all American adult males: 5 ft. 9 1⁄2 in. (176.3 cm), non-Hispanic whites: 5 ft. 10 in. (178.2 cm), trees, substantially taller.
Average height for all American adult females: 5 ft. 4 in. (162.9 cm).

Anonymous Steve August 04, 2015 2:57 PM  

Dunno what you chaps have against the Turks, they're a great bunch of lads.

Very similar to the Greeks: boisterous and forthright. And politically correct manginery doesn't seem to exist in Turkey.

If Western governments weren't full of immigrationist fanatics there would be no reason for us to quarrel with Turkey or any other Mahometan nation.

Blogger VD August 04, 2015 3:11 PM  

Tommy, just stop. You have no idea what you're talking about. Rousey can't beat a grown man, period. If she could she would fight one and make a mint. She won't because she can't. Unlike you, she trains with men and knows better.

OpenID kbswift August 04, 2015 3:12 PM  

@126

Nate, are you saying the average guy would give the guy in the video more of a fight?

Anonymous Viidad August 04, 2015 3:12 PM  

@Jack Ward

Yes, I've read Bonner off and on for years. Never had a reason to dislike him. His book Mobs, Messiahs and Markets was quite entertaining.

Anonymous Krul August 04, 2015 3:14 PM  

@183

Welcome to VP, stranger.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 04, 2015 3:39 PM  

VD,

If she could she would fight one and make a mint. She won't because she can't.

You're wrong. If she did and won, that man's career would be over. He's not an idiot.

Are you under the assumption that sports fighting pair ups are merely a matter of choice?

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 04, 2015 3:42 PM  

If Western governments weren't full of immigrationist fanatics there would be no reason for us to quarrel with Turkey or any other Mahometan nation.

Centuries of Western civilization soldiers from the Byzantine to the Austrian empires would like to have a word with you, @182.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 3:47 PM  

"turks and greeks have nothing in common. Turks are abomination.

Greeks on the other hand formulated Western Civilization."

Do you bite towels when having bowel movements? Sheesh.

Turks are literally nigh identical with Greeks. That's what they're referring to. The fact that they brutally subjugated you doesn't change that. History is full of that kinda shit.

"Tommy, just stop. You have no idea what you're talking about. Rousey can't beat a grown man, period. If she could she would fight one and make a mint. She won't because she can't. Unlike you, she trains with men and knows better."

Beating "grown men" isn't all that hard.

But hey, if you're right, it means I could probably beat her easily. I assumed that this is not the case.

I am unconviced of your maximalist opinion.

For one, beating up random tools would hardly make her any money. Who gives a shit about professionals beting random people off the street, even if women?

And as for male fighters: LOL. I think we all know why she isn't doing that.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 3:50 PM  

"Turks are literally nigh identical with Greeks."

Turks are literally night identical with Greeks from a genetic standpoint, I meant.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 04, 2015 3:51 PM  

"Centuries of Western civilization soldiers from the Byzantine to the Austrian empires would like to have a word with you"

This just in: The telephone and automobile have been invented.

Blogger LAZ August 04, 2015 3:57 PM  

@ Tommy: Rousey couldn't stand up and bang with a man but, she can hold her own on the mat with men her size.

Blogger Tiny Tim August 04, 2015 4:00 PM  

Men who argue that Roussey could beat the average male are coming from the point of view because they know that a woman could beat them, or possibly has in the past.

Keep in mind your girlfriend making you cry is not what we are talking about here.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 04, 2015 4:09 PM  

This just in: The telephone and automobile have been invented.

Also just in: Turkey is just now starting to recover as a power beyond its immediate region after being dismantled as part of WW1. There are no indications that anything substantive has changed with regards to their intentions towards the West, merely their perception of what the West will tolerate.

For example, some Turks now move to places like, say, Germany, and think that they belong there.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper August 04, 2015 4:16 PM  

There is no benefit in men fighting women in the ring, if you lose, you look like a sap, if you win you look like a thug.

Now Rowdy is a pretty good fighter, stocky and strong though with an odd build for 5'7" that suggests thin bones to me and she might be able to handle men in her weight class (135 according to Wikipedia) who have mediocre or less training,

She probably can mangle even heavier unfit male civilians with little or no training . I've known women in her weight class who have KO-D guys with a suckerpunch.

Good fighters , big fit guys however, not a chance, Well unless she uses a pipe or something which I wouldn't put past her being from Riverside, just kidding there but my ex was from that region and women there have a certain something

Anyway the real life power difference between men and women is considerable . Heck I have with fairly poor grappling skills and in mediocre shape, less strong than I am now been able to fling men heavier than her across a room and men in better shape can do more,

She knows this though and isn't stupid enough to buy into the hype.

Now as a side note, I like my women feminine or sometimes tough but tender but Rhonda Rousey does have a certain something as well as a nice voice and a pretty face.

Is it just me or does anyone think there are more pleasant ways to spend time with her than throwing punches and far more pleasant kinds of grappling as well.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 04, 2015 4:32 PM  

I'll fight Rousey for a mere 10K. You can call me anytime, Mr. White.

Anonymous Gary August 04, 2015 4:43 PM  

"Again... you're ignoring the fact that men are significantly more savage than women... and its HIGHLY unlikely that Rousey has ever experienced anything like that."

I'm 230 pounds, can lift and carry 450 pounds. work with my hands all day and grew up in a certain section of town where street fights were a parts of growing up white in a black section of town.

I watched one of her videos, I'm not impressed. I'd prudently not underestimate her of course but if I found an opening I'd grab hold and beat the crap out of her in a street fights. If a women wishes to get in the ring and fight like a man I have no moral qualms about getting down to business.

Blogger scipioafricanus August 04, 2015 4:50 PM  

"Turks are literally night identical with Greeks"

Tommy does seem to have a point there with the genetic evidence

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