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Monday, August 31, 2015

The sour grapes of Mensa

The Aesopean analogy doesn't quite work, though, given that foxes are a symbol of intelligence. And it's just so hard to maintain the pretense that you're the smartest guy in the room when you didn't even qualify for the high-IQ society with the lowest bar to membership. It doesn't take a, well, a Mensa member, to figure out why Mensa is such a sore spot for McRapey.
    Pro tip: Bragging about your Mensa card as an actual adult signals that while you may be "smart," you almost certainly are not wise.
    — John Scalzi (@scalzi) August 31, 2015

In the various recent kerfuffles surrounding science fiction and its awards, there have been a couple of people (and their spouses, declaiming about their beloved) who have been slapping down Mensa cards as proof that they (or their spouse) are smart. Let me just say this about that:

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

If you want to be in Mensa, that’s fine. Everyone needs hobbies and associations, and if this is the direction you want to go with yours, then you do you. Not my flavor, but then, lots of hobbies and associations aren’t my flavor.

That said:

1. Literally no one outside of Mensa gives a shit about your Mensa card. No one is impressed that you belong to an organization that has among its membership people who believe that because they can ace a test, they are therefore broadly intellectually superior to everyone else.

2. Your Mensa membership does not imply or suggest that you are the smartest person in the room. Leaving aside the point that the intelligence that Mensa values is a narrow and specialized sort, a large number of people who can join Mensa, don’t, for various reasons, including the idea that belonging to a group that glories in its supposed intellectual superiority is more than vaguely obnoxious.

3. Your need to bring up the fact you have a Mensa card suggests nothing other than it’s really really really important to you for people to know you’re smart, and that you believe external accreditation of this supposed top-tier intelligence is more persuasive than, say, the establishment of your intelligence through your actions, demeanor, or personality. Which is to say: It shows you’re insecure.

4. Your Mensa card does not mean you know how to argue. Your Mensa card does not mean you do not make errors or lapses in judgment. Your Mensa card is not a “get out of jail free” card when someone pokes holes in your thesis. Your Mensa card does not mean that you can’t be racist or sexist or otherwise bigoted. You may not say “I have a Mensa card, therefore my logic is irrefutable.” Your Mensa card will not save you from Dunning-Kruger syndrome, and if you think it will, then you are exactly who the Dunning-Kruger syndrome was meant to describe. You Mensa card will not keep you from being called out for acting stupidly, or doing stupid things.
See, you're not supposed to brag about your Mensa-qualifying IQ and having one doesn't mean you know how to argue. What you're supposed to do is brag about your BACHELOR'S DEGREE in Philosophy of Language from the University of Chicago, which institution we are reliably informed does not hand them out like gumballs, and appeal to the authority of that degree whenever someone happens to observe your incompetence at constructing syllogisms and formulating sound arguments. Which, as it happens, is practically every single time McRapey attempts to construct an actual argument rather than simply posturing about his assertions.

As I noted back in 2013, McRapey hasn't changed what passes for his debating technique since at least 2005.
  1. Make an obviously questionable assertion.
  2. When the assertion is questioned, appeal to bachelor's degree.
  3. When the appeal to the bachelor's degree is questioned, question the questioner's intellect and/or good will.
  4. Avoid further questions.
  5. Posture as if one has thoroughly proved one's point.
He even went so far as to claim that I had never bested him in any argument. "As for besting me in argument, well, no, not at any point I can remember."

SJWs always lie.

Sure you don't remember, Johnny. Read SJWs Always Lie, Amazon's #1 bestseller in Political Philosophy. It will serve to refresh your memory in brutal and well-documented detail, and it even contains a chapter devoted to rhetoric that you will find educational.

Speaking of Dunning-Kruger, McRapey is a walking, talking example of the syndrome in action, particularly when it comes to rhetoric. For all that he majored in something that could be considered akin to it if you squint hard enough, he clearly doesn't know the first thing about it. The rhetorical device to which he habitually resorts is a sophistical and dialectically illegitimate one called "ambiguity", not that he could correctly identify or name it despite his famous bachelor's degree. But then, as we know, we shouldn't be too harsh on him considering that he's not even smart enough for Mensa. Aristotle had Scalzi's kind pegged more than 2,000 years ago.

"Now for some people it is better worth while to seem to be wise, than to be wise without seeming to be (for the art of the sophist is the semblance of wisdom without the reality, and the sophist is one who makes money from an apparent but unreal wisdom); for them, then, it is clearly essential also to seem to accomplish the task of a wise man rather than to accomplish it without seeming to do so."

As for me, I don't brag about my Mensa membership. Why on Earth would I? The requirements for joining aren't even within a standard deviation of my IQ or the three other residents of the Digital Ghetto back in the day. I joined Mensa after starting my WND column as an efficient and effective way to defang the inevitable "right-wing writer is stupid" disqualifications from the left. And that is precisely why some people on the right brandish it like a shield, because that is exactly what it is: a rhetorical shield that successfully blunts the left's most frequently used rhetorical disqualification: "dey stupid, DISQUALIFY!"

And since we're on the subject of SJWs lying, where, exactly, is the "bragging about your Mensa card" in Sarah's post, to which, of course, McRapey does not link? Go ahead, see just how much importance she and her readers place on it and note the context in which it was mentioned.

But do tell us more about how it is actually membership in Mensa that is stupid and totally doesn't matter and doesn't mean that one is intelligent at all, Johnny. Let it all out. You'll feel better after a good cry.


UPDATE: It turns out that Mr. "Bachelor's Degree in Philosophy of Language from the University of Chicago" graduated with a 2.8 GPA. See, obviously he was one of the cool party guys... at the University of Chicago.
I was not hugely grade-intensive. I didn’t stress out: I had a 2.8 GPA…. I did well in the classes that I liked, and I did very poorly in the classes that I did not care about.
Apparently he didn't care about his IQ test either, or he totally would have done well enough to qualify for Mensa.

Labels:

175 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon August 31, 2015 4:54 AM  

The Three Laws of SJW are so reliable and predictable McRapey might as well be a bot.

Blogger Shimshon August 31, 2015 4:55 AM  

He fails the Turing Test.

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 5:17 AM  

Mensa is for losers. I read some of their propaganda about how hard it is to find other people worth talking to when you're so smart. So, if you're so fucking smart, why don't you hang out with the other rocket scientists. Oh? You're not a rocket scientist? Well, if the conversation with the other folks at the car wash isn't sufficiently stimulating, then I guess that Mensa is for you.

Blogger InnerPartisan August 31, 2015 5:34 AM  

I'm still a bit perplexed by your claim that SJWs *always* lie, Mr. Beale. Surely that is too absolute an assertion even for the likes of you?!?
Especially, as I was given to understand, that your so-called book focuses almost exclusively on your personal feud with Mr. Scalzi. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and accepting that Mr. Scalzi *always* lies (though even that would be a very questionable presupposition at best) - that is one HELL of a tiny sample size.

Blogger Rantor August 31, 2015 5:41 AM  

Inner Partisan. If you read the book you'd know the difference between rhetorical and dialectic arguments. Second, you'd know that it is about more than McRapey. For commenting without engaging brain, you are too short for this ride. Good Day!

Blogger InnerPartisan August 31, 2015 5:47 AM  

But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money. That is why I asked.

Also, I fail to see how an honest inquiry qualifies as "commenting without engaging brain". In fact, isn't that the very definition of "engaging brain" - trying to learn?

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 5:51 AM  

But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money. That is why I asked.

And you think that I should take my time and answer you when you won't even bother to read the book about which you are asking? I'm content to leave you perplexed in perpetuity.

Especially, as I was given to understand, that your so-called book focuses almost exclusively on your personal feud with Mr. Scalzi.

SJWs always lie. Your understanding is completely false.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 August 31, 2015 5:57 AM  

Ambiguity is a virtue when there are two solutions to a problem and you wish to refrain from oversimplifying a response. I'd even say it's necessary. The circumlocutory is to expand the questioners understanding. And I suspect that its nearly impossible to say anything beyond a sentence or two without subliminal meaning. Unintended consequences even. Words are fuzzy. They always need a bigger container than is at your or anyone's disposal. It's my corollary of the incompleteness theorem.

Blogger Rantor August 31, 2015 5:58 AM  

Inner Partisan. Honest inquiry? Why did you use the intended to insult, "so-called book" in your question? Honest questions do not attempt to belittle.

Anonymous daddynichol August 31, 2015 5:59 AM  

6. Ban, block or censure the person.

Anonymous Mike M. August 31, 2015 6:04 AM  

@3

That was my observation when I looked into Mensa. I qualify handily...but the other people seemed to be people more interested in appearing smart than in being smart.

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 6:06 AM  

Ambiguity is a virtue when there are two solutions to a problem and you wish to refrain from oversimplifying a response. I'd even say it's necessary.

Just stop right now, PhillipGeorge. You literally don't know what you're talking about. The term "ambiguity" does not indicate the general English word, but a specific rhetorical technique favored by sophists to which Aristotle referred in his De Sophisticis Elenchis.

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 6:07 AM  

I qualify handily...but the other people seemed to be people more interested in appearing smart than in being smart.

I've never been to a meeting. I joined specifically to have the card to wave in the faces of would-be disqualifiers.

Blogger InnerPartisan August 31, 2015 6:16 AM  

VD: So you are not actually interested in an honest debate. That is unfortunate, but hardly surprising. Have a nice day.

Anonymous Steve August 31, 2015 6:21 AM  

Discard - I wouldn't call them "losers", but the social side of Mensa attracts an eclectic and eccentric bunch. Not really my cup of tea. The most obviously brilliant people also tend to be the most Aspergery, so just having a laugh can be a bit challenging. Unless you really, really like talking about maths and astronomy. My attempts to steer the conversation towards football and tits were unappreciated, and I was no longer welcome at the monthly Pizza Hut gathering.

The special interest groups used to be really good, before the internet made them obsolete. Every month you'd get your lovingly photocopied, artisan hand-stapled edition of the Mensa Star Trek SIG newsletter, or whatever you were into.

I got into a bit of a spat with some Mensan proto-SJW's back in the early 90's, and it was glorious. Those guys were hilariously easy to troll, though to their credit, nobody tried the pitchforks-and-torches routine on me. Not sure if that's because Mensa is/was quite tolerant of free speech, or just a reflection of the more easygoing spirit of the time.

Anonymous rienzi August 31, 2015 6:23 AM  

@3. Discard: "Mensa is for losers. I read some of their propaganda about how hard it is to find other people worth talking to when you're so smart. So, if you're so fucking smart, why don't you hang out with the other rocket scientists. Oh? You're not a rocket scientist? Well, if the conversation with the other folks at the car wash isn't sufficiently stimulating, then I guess that Mensa is for you."


You should think before you post.

A) It is possible to be intelligent as hell, but everything from alpha down to gamma socially. Some Mensa members, indeed a majority may well be "losers", but I suspect most are "joiners" who just want to be around like-minded folks.

B) If you are highly intelligent, IT IS hard to find other people to talk to, and an organization specifically for the highly intelligent gives the Mensa member a nice pool of other highly intelligent people. You look for diamonds in a diamond mine, not at random.

C) The "car wash" jibe is obviously just another SJW "disqualify". God, but you people are predictable.

D) Man, but you are angry about this innocuous organization. I would venture a guess you tried to get in and failed. Much butthurt indeed.

Let me snowflake here: +4SD IQ, National Merit Finalist, 1590 out of possible 1600 back before the SAT got dumbed-down. Too much of a Sigma to join much of anything. And yes, I was the guy who dated the homecoming queen back in high school. Somebody had to, and that was me So. no, I'm not your prototypical car wash employee, and I can and will criticize you from from a position of intellectual and social superiority all day, every day.

Now run along back to the warren.

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 31, 2015 6:51 AM  

@14 I think it is clear you were not interested in an honest debate. You start off your line of questioning with phrases like "your so called book". Then go on to state you refuse to read the book. It is clear you have already formed an opinion based on lies that you no doubt read at one of the many sewers that pass as SFF blogs. The question you asked is addressed in the book and I fail to see why VD would bother to answer questions he already has addressed in the book. Now go back and tell your friends that you took on the big bad wolf, I am sure they will hang on your every word and reward you for bravery.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2015 7:09 AM  

> Your Mensa membership does not imply or suggest that you are the smartest person in the room.

Actually, assuming a random distribution of people and something less than a ballroom sized room, yes it does. But I'm not surprised the math is beyond him.

> Leaving aside the point that the intelligence that Mensa values is a narrow and specialized sort,

Now what was rule number one again?

> But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money. That is why I asked.

Then why don't you ask him for a copy politely in exchange for leaving an honest review on Amazon? Oh, that's right, rule number one again. You have o idea what an honest review is.

Anonymous MrGreenMan August 31, 2015 7:12 AM  

Philip George

You are misapplying the programming technique of deferred decision making / least possible commitment.

They are not the same term. It's like when somebody asked why I had to hide my discrete math.

@InnerPartisan

How unthinking do you have to be to accept its a rehash of Vox v Scalzi if it's already selling like hot cakes? Perhaps the people who led you to believe this thing don't want you to read anything from people you disagree with, and you are easily led.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly August 31, 2015 7:16 AM  

@3 Discard: You must have missed this post:

http://voxday.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/the-excluded.html

Blogger George August 31, 2015 7:16 AM  

The thing that I find annoying about trolls like InnerPartisan is they seem to think they are original. They show up, spout this same non-sense that the new troll last said and expect us to be convince that all this time we have been wrong. IP take a look at the some of the previous posts and realize you are just this week's troll. Basically you are like static on AM radio, most readers on this forum turn you out without noticing you.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2015 7:22 AM  

"Leaving aside the point that the intelligence that Mensa values is a narrow and specialized sort,"

It's funny that the people who most overvalue their own intelligence are the quickest to denigrate the concept of intelligence itself. In fact, I hereby declare that Midwit Rule #1. Now I just have to think of a pithy way to say it.

Blogger Daniel August 31, 2015 7:23 AM  

Honest debaters read the book, IP. Farewell.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 31, 2015 7:24 AM  

What's with his new Wil Wheaton look?

Is Scalzi doing it deliberately? Or is this part of the long term effects of being an overbearing SJW? Adam Sessler is starting to look that way too.

Do male SJWs secrete some kind of specialized hormone that does this to them overtime? A sort of anti-testosterone?

#stuffcatalinewondersabout




i

Anonymous Rob August 31, 2015 7:28 AM  

As far as I'm aware, the University of Chicago doesn't offer a bachelors degree in the Philosophy of Language.

Scalzi also had a 2.8 gpa, which isn't very good. Perhaps things were different back in the early 90s, but today that would make him one of the worst students in a given class at UofC.

Anonymous NateM August 31, 2015 7:40 AM  

Guess he figured out he and his proto lesbian daughter weren't as good at "blowing the doors of standardized tests" as he thought.

Blogger Josh August 31, 2015 7:44 AM  

This answer is illuminating especially in light of what Malcolm Gladwell told Bill Simmons about kids who don't study:

I was not hugely grade-intensive. I didn’t stress out: I had a 2.8 GPA…. I did well in the classes that I liked, and I did very poorly in the classes that I did not care about. The reason I did not stress too much about it is because I knew I had no plans of going on to graduate school. But part of it is that I knew the reason I was coming here was to work on the newspaper and to learn how to be a writer. I was more interested in the quality of my life experience than whether or not I was going to get that A in my Conrad class.

Anonymous Eli August 31, 2015 7:48 AM  

@14 You won't read his book, but turn around and say HE isn't up for honest debate. That's rich.

Blogger Jeff Hendricks August 31, 2015 7:56 AM  

I qualify for MENSA, but have never gotten around to joining. I'm not actually interested in going to any meetings. I may end up doing it just to irritate SJW's, like VD.

Blogger Crude August 31, 2015 7:57 AM  

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

Just popping in the comment at what a faggoty line this is.

Blogger Jack Ward August 31, 2015 7:58 AM  

Speaking of possible 'butt hurt' allowing room for circumstances, I've been going to the Rev3 site at least once a day looking for the blog master's 'conclusions' [part 4 of 4] of his 'how to kill Vox Day' series.
Nothing yet, though the first three parts are still up. See link if you wish.

I suspect that worthy ran smack into the sophont wall of the new fighting back against the sjw book. Considering the content of the first three parts I doubt not his consternation. Once again possible circumstances; maybe he's sick.

http://therev3.blogspot.com/

Blogger Jack Ward August 31, 2015 8:00 AM  

@29
If you do it to irritate VD; oh, the waste of your time. By all means go for it, though.

Blogger dlw August 31, 2015 8:00 AM  

> As I noted back in 2013, McRapey hasn't changed what passes for his
> debating technique since at least 2005.

He doesn't have to. He makes Grand Pronouncements, then his followers dogpile any opposition.

SJWs might *call* something a debate, but they're only there to score points, not to have a reasoned discussion.

Blogger Rantor August 31, 2015 8:01 AM  

That is hilarious, Like Scalzi (spit0 I didn't care much about my grades, but managed to graduate cum laude with a 3.5. Maybe my Mensa level intellect does mean something.

Blogger Salt August 31, 2015 8:02 AM  

All the disqualify showing up. Hardly unexpected. I don't blame InnerPartisan for not reading the book. It's beyond his understanding. Better use of the money hanging out at the car wash with Discard.

Blogger Jeff Hendricks August 31, 2015 8:03 AM  

@32: No, you misunderstand. I should have said "like VD did." I *want* to irritate SJW's.

I thought it was understood that VD isn't an SJW, not sure how you read it that way.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2015 8:10 AM  

> I thought it was understood that VD isn't an SJW, not sure how you read it that way.

I assume he missed the comma. But he probably was probably simply pointing out (in a humorous manner) that it is easily misinterpreted.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2015 8:15 AM  

> ... where, exactly, is the "bragging about your Mensa card" in Sarah's post,...

Sarah mentions somewhere near the bottom of the post:

" I’d like to serve warning, though I normally don’t brag about it because I think it correlates poorly to things like building a decent cabinet or managing your finances, that I do have a Mensa card somewhere in the moving boxes and even if I don’t find it and have to renew to post it, you should realize that I AM NEITHER STUPID NOR BORN YESTERDAY."

Pretty much the same reason you mention it, in other words.

Blogger jay c August 31, 2015 8:16 AM  

Shout out to IP for the great illustrations of the rule that SJWs always lie.

Anonymous Stephen J. August 31, 2015 8:18 AM  

"I'm still a bit perplexed by your claim that SJWs *always* lie, Mr. Beale. Surely that is too absolute an assertion even for the likes of you?!?"

Vox will correct me on this if I am wrong, I hope, but my understanding is that it's a rhetorical summary of the typical SJ approach to political advocacy and argument rather than a literal blanket statement, and covers the following points, among others:

- SJ arguments typically rely on rhetorical emotional fallacies like Bulverism and ad hominem rather than citations of evidence towards a thesis, and tend to involve unfalsifiable assertions rather than testable and falsifiable predictions.
- SJ advocates will regularly and unblushingly shift the goalposts of an argument whenever they think they can get away with it.
- SJ advocates tend to assume that their positions are so morally obvious that only the self-consciously immoral can disagree, which gives them the conviction that their opponents always argue in bad faith and the reflex bias that no evidence cited by said opponents is to be trusted. This in turn means that they feel no obligation to actually prove their argument, since they do not trust their opponent to accept such proof, and are more interested in simply getting their position accepted however possible.
- SJ philosophy assumes in general that the average person cannot tell truth from falsehood with sufficient reliability to guarantee that pernicious doctrines will not poison the public discourse. However, recognizing that this conviction alienates most people from sympathizing with them, they generally work very hard to conceal it and to present themselves as nicer and more reasonable people than their behavior in fact demonstrates them to be.

I personally think a slightly more accurate formulation would be something like: "SJWs always argue dishonestly, because they care far more about implementing their preferred policy than about justifying their preferred philosophy." But that has nowhere near the pith and memorability of Vox's phrasing.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 31, 2015 8:29 AM  

@29

@Jeff Hendricks

If memory serves and that is a very big IF. You'll need a new test administered by a psychologist. Then the annual dues are $70.

I used to qualify but a career in the Marine Corps undoubtedly beat several IQ points out of me. I'm afraid to find out how dumb I've gotten.

Also the cost of gaining membership is the equivalent of a decent pistol and 40 rounds of Cor-Bon DPX.

But you have your priorities and I have mine.

Anonymous Rob August 31, 2015 8:31 AM  

Josh,

It's also interesting considering that, again with the caveat that things may have been different then, any competent writer should be able to regularly get B+'s simply by regurgitating class lectures in decent prose, even at an elite school like U of C.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2015 8:32 AM  

At this point I think someone ought to reprimand Scalzi for mocking the neuro-atypical, or whatever the buzzword is now. The sputtering alone should be worth it.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 31, 2015 8:32 AM  

Well my measly 117 IQ did recognize that the SJW were damned effective at trolling all the smarties on our side for basically decades. The SJW would spew some nonsense and our smarties would tailgate the conversation with essays all in an effort I gather to promote to other conservatives how smart they were.

SJWAL is literally the first offensive weapon I have seen or can remember since maybe Ronald Reagan used a few sentences of rhetoric against the Soviets, but since then the Cultural Marxists have been ass pounding our "intellectuals" (George Will conservative intellectual Depends customer #1) at will and with ease.

Blogger Jeff Hendricks August 31, 2015 8:38 AM  

@41 I've looked into it, my ACT/SAT scores can't be used, they're just past the cutoff date. I was tested more than once while in school, but I haven't really found the need to pursue it.

Part of me says "It doesn't matter, it's a waste of time and money," but another part of me says "There's an SJW out there I can piss off. Totally worth it."

I may still do it, though it will have to wait until after I finish some projects, like restoring my '65 Rambler.

Blogger Dexter August 31, 2015 8:40 AM  

I was in Mensa in high school. At the time I was mystified - "why are these people so lame?" - but now I understand that the group primarily consisted of the people I now recognize as gammas and omegas.

OpenID rufusdog August 31, 2015 8:41 AM  

An appeal to IQ is an appeal to authority; it only works as a shield the first time, once the fact of high IQ is established further appeals to it are generally just an appeal to authority, a cudgel.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 31, 2015 8:42 AM  

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

This sort of condescension is something no one would have the spine to say in person. It is a signal of the vilest form of cowardice. No man would ever use it, and no man would ever accept it from a pseudo-man who did.

I really didn't grasp the Vox/Scalzi thing until I read that quote.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 31, 2015 8:48 AM  

Mensa card good shield against SJW stupidity-attacks (SJW's always lie). This minion took test many years ago...failed by 2 IQ points. Minimal butthurt though: Can still be vile faceless minion, even if not not Ilk or Dread Ilk hero. All have important part to play in war to defeat SJW Disease.

Blogger Harsh August 31, 2015 8:48 AM  

VD: So you are not actually interested in an honest debate. That is unfortunate, but hardly surprising. Have a nice day.

Bahahaha! I can almost see him flip his pink scarf over his shoulder as he walks away in a huff.

"I said, good day, sir!"

Anonymous clk August 31, 2015 8:52 AM  

"But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money. That is why I asked." ...

Another example of the failures on the other side .. they dont understand whom they are dealing with. The one thing about VD -- I dont think its hardly ever about the money ... he doesn't write these sort of books for the promise of gold....

My observational theory is that when he gets focused on an issue the only way he can finally get resolution is to publish a book. Very often the subjects being discussed here are part of his process (either intentional or unintentional) as he fleshes out his thoughts on any given subject . The blog is often the sounding board for his ideas... and beleive it or not, the discussions that go on here does help shape those positions.

Blogger Harsh August 31, 2015 8:57 AM  

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

The way the man turns a phrase reveals so much aberrant psychology it's hard to know where to begin.

Blogger CM August 31, 2015 8:57 AM  

@Cataline

Do male SJWs secrete some kind of specialized hormone that does this to them overtime? A sort of anti-testosterone?

Wonder if SJWs are disproportionately affected by low-T? Given how many other liberal neurosis are linked to unusual thought patterns and brain processing, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a chemical imbalance.

Blogger JP August 31, 2015 9:02 AM  

The South African chapter of Mensa gives you access to lower beer prices at their meetings (we usually go to a pub) and you can also get a Mensa-branded credit card with an attractive interest rate.

Blogger Nate August 31, 2015 9:03 AM  

ya know this post by Scalzi i pretty funny if you compare it his post on guns. Putting them side by side is an excellent way to demonstrate exactly how formulaic he really is.

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 9:18 AM  

So you are not actually interested in an honest debate. That is unfortunate, but hardly surprising.

Not with you. I don't debate the willfully ignorant.

Blogger Shimshon August 31, 2015 9:24 AM  

@52 Harsh

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

The way the man turns a phrase reveals so much aberrant psychology it's hard to know where to begin.


My first thought on reading that is that he's trying to sound like the Supreme Dark Lord at his Most Disdainful and Dismissive. But it just doesn't work.

Blogger Harsh August 31, 2015 9:25 AM  

Wonder if SJWs are disproportionately affected by low-T?

Given their uniformly doughy and effeminate appearance, I'd say that's a given.

Anonymous Menelaus August 31, 2015 9:29 AM  

Apparently the phrase is taken from rape-rape.
great minds think alike, eh
here ye be

Anonymous Menelaus August 31, 2015 9:30 AM  

And yes, it was spoken by a female character, specifically old Nan the nanny

Anonymous Alexander, #10 August 31, 2015 9:37 AM  

Sarah Hoyt is not a very intelligent author and I myself am quite intelligent.

Anonymous Alexander, #10 August 31, 2015 9:37 AM  

If you qualified for a Mensa membership, my love.

Anonymous Stephen J. August 31, 2015 9:46 AM  

@57: "My first thought on reading that is that he's trying to sound like the Supreme Dark Lord at his Most Disdainful and Dismissive. But it just doesn't work."

He's actually quoting a very minor character in Game of Thrones, Bran Stark's nurse Old Nan who dresses him down about some childish pout or other by telling him what the Long Winter, when it comes, will really be like:

"“Oh, my sweet summer child," Old Nan said quietly, "what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the icy wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods...."

What it says about me that I recognized the quote instantly, you may construe as you wish; what it says about Mr. Scalzi that this is his preferred mode of reproof, I must admit I find it hard to resist making a few construals of my own.

Anonymous Reader August 31, 2015 9:49 AM  

Why resent Mensa? Maybe because of envy?

Mensa is just like any place where you may find obnoxious and pleasant people. I’ve been to 2 meetings and found them pleasant enough and with varied degree of “success”.

I think what we can say about the members are that they have the ability to think differently and are capable of learning and excelling in many things. Scalzi is wrong when he says IQ test measures something that is narrow and specific. I wouldn’t say abstract reasoning , (which the tests claim to measure) has a definite boundary.

I have lived with 3 persons of very high IQ, one of which a Mensa member (surely the 2 will qualify for membership if intelligence is genetic, if they bother to take the test); they are just normal persons, although quick witted than most people . And based on my experience they have a great sense of humour. Boring is not a word to describe them.

OpenID pancakeloach August 31, 2015 9:52 AM  

@14 I have to admit, I did LOL. Good thing I wasn't sipping coffee at the time.

Squeal harder, little guy!

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 31, 2015 9:55 AM  

I have yet to see Vox brag about it on his on blog, other than to remind people that he's not a low-IQ dunce. And that's not bragging by my estimation.

Also, good people don't brag about who they are but what they've done. Think Odysseus when he bragged about sacking towns.

The only other Mensa person I saw was some obese man driving a hybrid with a bumper sticker broadcasting his membership. Obviously he wasn't going to be discovering what is best in life besides the next Twinkie in his pocket.

Anonymous BGS August 31, 2015 10:09 AM  

1. Literally no one outside of Mensa gives a shit about your Mensa card.

Since US Mensa has ~57,000 members but the only 9 that can check the African American box could sneak into a clan rally during the summer if they stayed out of the sun, I am surprised the govt has not forced them to accept non Asian minorities.

Oh, my sweet summer children. Just don’t.

Not entirely sure what this means, I have heard people say about kids being too young to have body odor, but unless a kid was diabetic I don't see how they would be sweet. If he means sweet as in well behaved, kids usually act up more in the summer.

I was not hugely grade-intensive. I didn’t stress out: I had a 2.8 GPA

Another person arguing for a gentlemanly C.

I'm still a bit perplexed by your claim that SJWs *always* lie, Mr. Beale. Surely that is too absolute an assertion even for the likes of you?!?

Even crazy people are more likely to cross a bridge than jump off of it. People who are willing to lie about small things can not be trusted with big things.

But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money.
Its only $5, you cant even get a crack ho for that much. Although that does remind me of a Clinton joke.

My attempts to steer the conversation towards football and tits were unappreciated

Perhaps check out the lesbian bowling league.

Leaving aside the point that the intelligence that Mensa values is a narrow and specialized

I guess he means the types created to make blacks feel better. The military's asvab score is basically 7 different types of g weighted IQ tests focusing on different factors but there is no great difference between them, people are not retarded in one factor while genius in another.

Do male SJWs secrete some kind of specialized hormone that does this to them overtime

Could be something they swallow.

OpenID cglasgow99 August 31, 2015 10:09 AM  

'Summer children' is a Game of Thrones reference -- in-setting, it means 'has no personal experience with hardship or deprivation'. He's implying that his audience is sheltered/naïve and that he, from his 'superior' position, is cluing them into harsh reality. Typical dismiss..

OpenID trunthepaige August 31, 2015 10:10 AM  

We all did well in the classes we liked. Those were the classes we found easy. As for the classes we did badly in, we didn't like them. The reason we hated those classes, is that they were hard for us. Saying that the way McRapey did, is implying that if only he had loved it, he would have aced it. And that is a self deceptive lie.

Anonymous Blaster August 31, 2015 10:17 AM  

I'm still a bit perplexed by your claim that SJWs *always* lie, Mr. Beale. Surely that is too absolute an assertion even for the likes of you?!?

As others have said, this is explained clearly in the book as being a rhetorical device. You do not actually need to read "SJW's Always Lie" to understand, however the explanation there. Chapter 10 is dedicated to rhetoric, and the book's title is used as an example of rhetoric. Two dialectically accurate versions of the same phrase are presented for comparison, along with explanations about when and why each version is appropriate.


Especially, as I was given to understand, that your so-called book focuses almost exclusively on your personal feud with Mr. Scalzi. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and accepting that Mr. Scalzi *always* lies (though even that would be a very questionable presupposition at best) - that is one HELL of a tiny sample size.

There are 10 chapters and 3 appendices in the book. Chapter 2 is about the "Three Laws of SJW" and describes experiences with Scalzi to illustrate the meaning of each law. Appendix C includes the details of the SFWA drama and the board's vote to kick him out. Scalzi's role there is peripheral at best, but it's mentioned. There may be a few other examples scattered in the book that I don't recall but that's it.

By the way, you can find in a previous thread in this blog where I questioned Vox's decision to use Scalzi as the first example of SJWs always lie. He responded directly to my material point with a valid counter-argument. I was not fully persuaded, but it's an obvious example of how Vox will treat opponents who make a baseline effort to be informed and make straightforward dialectic arguments.

(I only read and post periodically, and do not consider myself part of Vox's "Dread Ilk" or anything like that so Vox has no reason to treat me differently based on anything other than the content of my posts.)

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 31, 2015 10:25 AM  

It turns out that Mr. "Bachelor's Degree in Philosophy of Language from the University of Chicago" graduated with a 2.8 GPA.

In fairness to Scalzi. The University of Chicago actually did have a pretty rigorous liberal arts program back then. Although I don't know if that applied to Language Philosophy program.

In unfairness to Scalzi, we have only his word that he even puled a 2.8

In his case it's not unreasonable to assume he pulled 2.65 and rounded up...a little.

It's called earning a reputation and he does not have one for honesty.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2015 10:28 AM  

"They show up, spout this same non-sense that the new troll last said and expect us to be convince that all this time we have been wrong."

It's compelling and they can't help themselves. But I don't think they expect us to embrace the light of their sage wisdom. It's just some kind of cathartic release. For them, even negative attention is better than no attention.

Think about the troll who drops in on occasion and then reminds everyone who responds to him that the rules forbid engaging him. Poor, sad, pathetic, lonely little souls desperate to be accepted somewhere in this world, even if it's as an anonymous blip in someone's blogosphere.

OpenID trunthepaige August 31, 2015 10:29 AM  

I always wondered why you used to have a Mensa membership up as a qualification. In the USA there would be very roughly seven million people who qualified for it. Or put another way I'm at the bottom qualifying level for Mensa and I'm the dummy of my family. You seemed too bright to use that as a qualification. I'm no genius myself, but I'm smart enough to know when someone else is.

Blogger Alexander August 31, 2015 10:33 AM  

Scalzi had a GPA of up to 2.8!

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 10:34 AM  

I always wondered why you used to have a Mensa membership up as a qualification.

Because the credentialists midwits care about it and think it denotes serious intelligence. That's why you often see their attacks on me begin: "he's smart, but...."

I'm no genius myself, but I'm smart enough to know when someone else is.

I'm not a genius either. My IQ is above the so-called "genius" level, but I think that's a ridiculous term. Genius is about unique and genuine ACCOMPLISHMENT, not potential. Nothing I've done merits the label.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 August 31, 2015 10:37 AM  

Hmmm... I'll bet Scalzi once turned down the opportunity to write an original work in order to "create" derivative Trekkie fan fiction. After all, Riker once turned down command...

Blogger Nate August 31, 2015 10:41 AM  

"I'm not a genius either. My IQ is above the so-called "genius" level, but I think that's a ridiculous term. Genius is about unique and genuine ACCOMPLISHMENT, not potential. Nothing I've done merits the label."

That will be determined by the next 10 years of economic history mate.

a genius you may well be.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 August 31, 2015 10:46 AM  

Lest we forget.....
That (crap, I forget) IQ score is the MINIMUM for membership, not "limited to"
I too will not read Mr. Beal's new book because-
1. It is not a book, yet, (freely admitted dead tree snob)
2. If I've been paying attention for the last few years, do I HAVE to?
Why do I SUSPECT that "archives" will reveal most, except for twiddly minutia.
(Correct me if I'm wrong here)
I have NEVER been to a Mensa meeting.
The gatherings are nice when they involve food/booze because
1. I RARELY have to stop and explain what (ie) "discrimination", "affirmative Action",or "Chauvinism" ACTUALLY mean.
2. "figuring out" everyone's cut of the bill, AND tip, takes 5 seconds, for a group or 12.
Gatherings CAN suck, when I have to stop, and explain what a (ie) shoe horn is, or what the term "award winning" means when used in print, to folks who have never had a need to use either.
CaptDMO
(100010954)

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 31, 2015 10:48 AM  

Genius is about unique and genuine ACCOMPLISHMENT, not potential. Nothing I've done merits the label.

Funny thing about that. You only have to be a genius once to qualify as one for life.

And often that one thing is a just a new common sense approach to a thing that is long established. After the moment of genius comes, everybody goes, "Well I could have thought of that!"

But you didn't, did you?

I admit my own view of Common Sense was formed by my time in the Marines. I came to view Common Sense as the rarest and most precious form of genius imaginable. Any of my boys who demonstrated it, I would guard as savagely as a mother tiger.

Blogger Josh August 31, 2015 10:49 AM  

After all, Riker once turned down command...

Nate, did you know this?

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 31, 2015 10:52 AM  

Scalzi had a GPA of up to 2.8!

Its easy to see how someone smart could end up with lower grades as seen in the hugo award winning story "If Shitivous got a 8.0 in the class you earned a 2.8 my love"
"According to her syllabus, students will lose one point every time they use the words “illegal alien” or “illegals” rather than the preferred terms of “‘undocumented’ migrants/immigrants/persons.” Throughout the course, Fowler says, students will “come to recognize how white privilege functions in everyday social structures and institutions.”" "if they fail to “defer” to non-white students."

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6770


Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2015 10:53 AM  

It's compelling and they can't help themselves.

They do it because it usually works for them. On most blogs, they can swoop in, say something like, "So, are you really saying that [insert distortion of blogger's point here]?" and the blogger will take the bait, trying to explain what he really meant. It works especially well on smart, logic-oriented people, because they like explaining things anyway, and they assume others can be convinced that way.

That's why it's so important to start teaching rhetoric again (from the reactions to Vox's book, it appears that this is the first many people have heard of it), and for people to learn how to recognize fallacies and knock them down. Do that, and they don't stick around, because that would be work.

Anonymous AlteredFate August 31, 2015 10:54 AM  

InnerPartisan proves rather succinctly Vox's point about SJWs never acting in good faith. They are liars through and through, and they believe everyone else to be liars too, arguing only to win the approval of the warren. The truth means nothing to them. It is a mere inconvenience they believe can be waved away with a flick of the wrist.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 31, 2015 10:56 AM  

"The reason we hated those classes, is that they were hard for us."

The classes I loved the most were objectively the hardest and all involved advanced math and/or algorithms. The ones I hated were the mandatories that required rote memorization and regurgitation. Those were easy to coast through because they didn't require much thinking and were a waste of time.

Anonymous 224 August 31, 2015 10:56 AM  

Rev3 -"Let's face it: shunning Vox has worked about as well as ignoring that strange lump growing beneath your skin. "

Good Lord! It's learning. If it this continues it may reach self awareness!

Rev3 is asking SJWs to do the following:


1. "..it's about treating human beings like human beings instead of Captain Planet villains. Hug a Puppy. By them lunch. Invite them over to discuss their favorite books. They may never be your best friend, but they may begin to see you as human. "

*snicker*

2." So don't respond with insults and dismissals, respond with links to evidence and politeness."

BAHAHAHAHAAA!

3. "So learn to think like the enemy. I don't care how much you hate Vox Day; if you want to go after him, you first have to understand where he's coming from. Read Vox Populi daily. Buy a few of his books. Read the articles and papers he cites as evidence and do some research of your own"

Good luck with that! Go long popcorn futures,


4. "This means taking some responsibility on our side as well. Are we standing up for wider representation or demonizing Europeans? Are we voting for the best Sci-Fi (subjective as that may be) or for stunt novels? Or worse, for the best Tor novel? "

This is funny stuff. It's as if Dev3 doesn't know how his warren works. It speaks of mutual goals but we know that it is simply a ploy to compromise so that the take over can commence.



OpenID cglasgow99 August 31, 2015 11:04 AM  

I pity Dev3. He's apparently going through that process known as 'trying to deny the slowly growing horrific realization that the side you're in is actually full of assholes and idiots'. He'll almost certainly lapse back into drinking the Kool-Aid rather than finally acknowledging the SJW dogma is hollow and soul-destroying, but its still sad to see someone /almost/ clue in, then deliberately turn away from truth and flee back into the depths of comforting self-deception.

Anonymous Alsos August 31, 2015 11:05 AM  

Is it just me, or do the SJWs seem to be suddenly focusing their efforts on Sarah Hoyt? I know she's on their radars because of SP2/SP3 and her repeated criticisms of SJWry in SF/F, but it seems like a sudden spike in interest in her and attacks on her since Sasquan. Perhaps a swarm is forming?

OpenID cglasgow99 August 31, 2015 11:10 AM  

It's not just you. If I remember her last blogpost correctly Sarah's own theory is that its battlespace prep for Sad Puppies 4, given that its already been announced she'll be lead organizer for it.

Anonymous Anonymous August 31, 2015 11:17 AM  

I am a member of Mensa. I have found membership to be a two edged sword.

I joined specifically so I could put it on my resume to differentiate myself from other candidates. It has produced positive reactions from interviewers. Surprisingly, it has also produced a number of negative reactions.

The advantages of Mensa are debatable, but I've yet to see anyone argue that there are advantages to failing to qualify for Mensa.

Blogger Harsh August 31, 2015 11:18 AM  

Leaving aside the point that the intelligence that Mensa values is a narrow and specialized

And just happens to be highly correlated with career success and wealth. But other than that, completely irrelevant.

Anonymous Porky August 31, 2015 11:21 AM  

At least Scalzi is raising money for a charity that benefits Vox.


Blogger Russell (106) August 31, 2015 11:30 AM  

VP's commenters are better at turning a phrase than Scalzi.

Evidence:

@15 Steve Every month you'd get your lovingly photocopied, artisan hand-stapled edition of the Mensa Star Trek SIG newsletter, or whatever you were into.

@45 Jeff "There's an SJW out there I can piss off. Totally worth it."

@74 Alexander Scalzi had a GPA of up to 2.8!

Blogger Zach August 31, 2015 11:30 AM  

St. Augustine demonstrates that the Internet must have been around in Late Roman times:

I heard that certain persons were preparing against them an answer of some kind or other in writing. Then it was told me that they had already written their answer, but were waiting a time when they could publish it without danger. Such persons I would advise not to desire what can be of no advantage to them; for it is very easy for a man to seem to himself to have answered arguments, when he has only been unwilling to be silent. For what is more loquacious than vanity?

There were obviously proto-SJWs around too:

And though it be able, if it like, to shout more loudly than the truth, it is not, for all that, more powerful than the truth.

Amazing how some things don't change.

peace,
Zach

Blogger Chiva August 31, 2015 11:31 AM  

I came to view Common Sense as the rarest and most precious form of genius imaginable.

So true.

Anonymous Quartermaster August 31, 2015 11:47 AM  

@94

Einstein said that common sense is just the prejudices accumulated since adolescence. Einstein was known to have little common sense,

@89

I've never met anyone proud of having failed to gain admission to Mensa. I've never been enamored of the organization, but I work in circles where finishing Engineering School with a high GPA is all the credential I required.

Near the end, as I am now, no one asks about my GPA and no one cares. We do not hesitate to rag each other about the sorry school the other guy graduated from, however. OTOH, people like Scalzi carry on as they do because they are simply insecure. UC wasn't a place that handed out degrees like Cracker Jack prizes, but I've met one or two of their grads that had little on the ball.

Anonymous Anonymous August 31, 2015 11:49 AM  

Scalzi when to a private boarding school, $50K a year, then U of C, $50K a year, immediately lands a job at the sac bee then aol. Where does a 14 -22 year old suburban white kid get say $500K. I think this is a massive demonstration of white privilege. How is this over privileged white as can white be white guy have any say as a social progressive.

Anonymous RedJack #22 August 31, 2015 11:59 AM  

A few years ago, the whole "Mensa" thing was talked about here. I was happily surprised to learn a few things.

There are quite a few current and former members here. There are more National Merit Scholars here than Mensa.
The quality of intellect is one of the reasons I have stayed. In short, credentials don't matter, knowing your stuff does. I have been taken down a number of times by guys who didn't have the credentials here, and have done the same to others.

It is refreshing. You have to defend your position, and are expected to make others defend theirs

Blogger Tommy Hass August 31, 2015 12:00 PM  

If Common Sense is genius, then it isn't really "common".

Its not that common sense is an extraordinary thing to have. It's that common sense is an extraordinary thing to NOT have.

Blogger Josh August 31, 2015 12:04 PM  

Pennies are common cents

Anonymous Jack Amok August 31, 2015 12:04 PM  

we have only his word that he even puled a 2.8

Good point. If his honesty about his GPA is anything like his honesty about his blog traffic, he would've had a GPA around 0.3. Are we even sure he graduated?

Y'know, it occurs to me we might have to question his huge lawn too. I'm thinking his lawn might actually be a chia pet on the balcony.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 31, 2015 12:04 PM  

@RedJack #97: In short, credentials don't matter, knowing your stuff does.

Dis minion knows da stuff. It is to drive da SJW enemies before us, to see all dere stuff is belong to us, and to hear da vailing of der vimmin. Dese are da good things of knowing our stuff.

Blogger Josh August 31, 2015 12:09 PM  

Can we create a scale to prorate gpa by degree and by school?

So scalzi would get a bump for Chicago but a drop for both the 2.8 and philosophy.

Blogger IM2L844 August 31, 2015 12:11 PM  

Pro tip: Bragging about your Mensa card as an actual adult signals that while you may be "smart," you almost certainly are not wise. — John Scalzi (@scalzi) August 31, 2015


"Looks like he's going with a 9 iron. That may not be enough club."

Blogger Josh August 31, 2015 12:12 PM  

Bragging about your mensa card vs bragging about your lawn...discuss...

Blogger Were-Puppy August 31, 2015 12:16 PM  

@14 InnerPartisan
VD: So you are not actually interested in an honest debate. That is unfortunate, but hardly surprising. Have a nice day
------------------

Well, I guess the Seagulls appearing at MHI should have been a forewarning that they would be over here too at some point. I call them seagulls because they aren't proper concern trolls, and they appear to not be for either side. They simply fly into the conversation, shit everywhere, and fly off.

Anonymous Porky August 31, 2015 12:21 PM  

Bragging about your mensa card vs bragging about your lawn...discuss...

Bragging about mensa vs. bragging about knowing Tom Hanks. No discussion needed.

Anonymous Duke of URL VFM#391 August 31, 2015 12:22 PM  

@31
Thanks for revealing the existence of Rev3. I went and read the 3 episodes and was impressed. He was coherent AND POLITE. Amazing...
There was so much praise (sometimes unwilling, but WTH) of VD in there that I suspect Rev3 & VD would get along nicely as friends, while still disagreeing on some things.

Blogger Danby August 31, 2015 12:25 PM  

@61 Alexander, #10
"Sarah Hoyt is not a very intelligent author and I myself am quite intelligent."

I admit, I LOLed myself.

Anonymous dh August 31, 2015 12:25 PM  

Bragging about mensa vs. bragging about knowing Tom Hanks. No discussion needed.

In fairness to Tom Hanks, it looks very much like Tom Hanks was just sitting around this guy asks for a photo. It's up in the air if Tom Hanks really knows who JS is. For all we know JS was essentially name dropping him.

Blogger RobertT August 31, 2015 12:27 PM  

I do think bragging is generally off putting. I mention my mensa credentials somewhere deep in my web site and my certificate is on my trophy wall, but I'm very cautious about where and when I use it. I personally was so deeply disappointed by mensa that let my membership lapse after a single dues cycle 25 years ago. I joined thinking i would meet a lot of bright people, and I didn't meet a single one. I run into brighter people on a regular basis as a practicing tax strategist. To be fair, not many, but more than I met in mensa.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 31, 2015 12:31 PM  

@51 clk
"But I won't read his book, because I'd rather not give Mr. Beale any of money. That is why I asked." ...

Another example of the failures on the other side .. they dont understand whom they are dealing with. The one thing about VD -- I dont think its hardly ever about the money ... he doesn't write these sort of books for the promise of gold....
---------------------------------

That guy missed the memo. They are supposed to be making Vox so successful that he will wander away counting money, forgetting the fight.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) August 31, 2015 12:35 PM  

@trunthepaige

The difference between damn near failing my first few years, and straight A's at the end, was bothering to do the damned homework.

Most of the classes bored me to tears, and even the physics class was aced while keeping a paperback open just under the desk edge most of the time. I found geometry and proofs to be far more interesting than the grindwork of algebra (ditto 1st and 3rd semester calculus)

Outside of calculus, nuke school in the Navy was the first time I ran into something I had to sit down and study, rather than just take notes and review. Though not that much.

Hands-on in a plant was the first time I actually had to leave my comfort zone. THAT was an adjustment, and a good part of leaving gamma.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 31, 2015 12:36 PM  

@53 CM
@Cataline

Do male SJWs secrete some kind of specialized hormone that does this to them overtime? A sort of anti-testosterone?

Wonder if SJWs are disproportionately affected by low-T? Given how many other liberal neurosis are linked to unusual thought patterns and brain processing, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a chemical imbalance.
-------

There was the comment in the SJWAL about SJWs having small amygdalas.

Anonymous The Millennial Falcon August 31, 2015 12:38 PM  

@ Josh

I volunteer as the bottom of the scale (or in Scalzi parlance, the easiest difficulty setting). Film degree. Cal State Fullerton + 63 transferred credits from 3 community colleges. In my final community college class, the instructor would write 70+% of the answers on the whiteboard to make sure everyone passed.

3.99 cumulative GPA, but grade-inflation-adjusted it might be close to Scalzi's. Though I'd like to think if I'd taken a more challenging route I would have stepped up my game accordingly.

Blogger RobertT August 31, 2015 12:46 PM  

If you're explaining you're losing.

Anonymous DNW August 31, 2015 12:47 PM  

As for me, I don't brag about my Mensa membership. Why on Earth would I? The requirements for joining aren't even within a standard deviation of my IQ or the three other residents of the Digital Ghetto back in the day. I joined Mensa after starting my WND column as an efficient and effective way to defang the inevitable "right-wing writer is stupid" disqualifications from the left. And that is precisely why some people on the right brandish it like a shield, because that is exactly what it is: a rhetorical shield that successfully blunts the left's most frequently used rhetorical disqualification: "dey stupid, DISQUALIFY!"


Yes, it's become obvious the last number of years that intelligence only counts in jockeying for social position and proving your social architect bona fides when progressives say it does. Whatever you think of her, Ann Coulter has made this point forcibly as well.

When progressives are demonstrably not the brightest, most expert, of best informed person in the room, then the preeminent moral virtue becomes whatever trait it is that they may have in abundance. Even if it is nothing more than snark.

If progressives were on average more sexually dimorphic than they are; then female beauty and masculine virtue would count for something as well. But since "progressive" is largely a term we use to describe the political alignment of humans who lack these traits, it is unlikely that that will ever come to pass. They would simply be conservatives of libertarians, rather than what they in fact are.

Anonymous 0007 August 31, 2015 12:48 PM  

VD@56:
Shouldn't that maybe be "woefully ignorant"?

Anonymous Porky August 31, 2015 12:51 PM  

It's up in the air if Tom Hanks really knows who JS is. For all we know JS was essentially name dropping him.

No, Tom is an avowed Scalzi fan.

Anonymous Anonymous August 31, 2015 1:06 PM  

"I came to view Common Sense as the rarest and most precious form of genius imaginable."

Common sense is the inability to think outside the box; it's the inability to think beyond your experiences.

But, not recognizing the common sense is also a problem.

When you find someone that recognizes the common sense solution, but doesn't feel bound by it, then you have someone special.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 31, 2015 1:10 PM  

It's interesting that Scalzi is of an age where the SATs he took to get into the University of Chicago were before they were watered down and Mensa stopped accepting them in the early '90s.

Which means he knows for an absolute fact he's not that smart, since those old fashioned SATs are a very good proxy for IQ, for example, the IQ test I took in high school and the IQ you get from my SATs after using the handy conversion tables both say 3SD+ like our host, are within a point or two.

Anonymous Anonymous August 31, 2015 1:14 PM  

"When progressives are demonstrably not the brightest, most expert, of best informed person in the room, then the preeminent moral virtue becomes whatever trait it is that they may have in abundance."

There is no correlation between being progressive and having a high IQ. There are plenty of conservatives and libertarians with high IQs.

There is a correlation between a high IQ and hubris.

Some people get so used to being the smart guy in the room, that they start to believe they are the smart guy in the room on every subject. That's hubris, plain and simple.

Everybody is ignorant about something.

Ignorant is a word that needs to be revived. It is not an insult to say someone is ignorant about a subject. It means they lack information, not brain power.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2015 1:25 PM  

@110 RobertT

"I do think bragging is generally off putting."

So do the wise:

"Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth;
an outsider, and not your own lips."

(Proverbs 27)

Blogger IM2L844 August 31, 2015 1:33 PM  

"Post a Comment

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. Anonymous comments will be deleted.
DO NOT RESPOND TO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. You will be punished.
"

Ignorantia non excusat

Just sayin...

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 31, 2015 1:57 PM  

@Anonymous

Yeah, Vox is pretty strict on that point.

No Anonymous comments.

You have to come up with handle or you'll be banned. It's just to keep comments organized. Don't take it personally.

Believe it or not my real name is not Cataline Sergius.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2015 1:58 PM  

"Believe it or not my real name is not Cataline Sergius."

Truth is stranger than fiction . . .

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 2:13 PM  

16. Rienzi:

a. It is possible to be intelligent as hell, and still be a loser. Mensa members tend to group at the gamma end of the social scale.

b. If you want the company of smart people, do smart things. Achievement matters, not potential. Mensa is not a gold mine of intelligence, it's more like a tailings pile.

c. "Car wash" is an SJW "disqualify", you say. Actually, your use of SJW is a disqualify, which you might have noticed had you thought before you posted. A pretty poor disqualify too, since I am a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic anti-Semite.

d. I am not angry about Mensa, I am disdainful. No, I never tried to join, never had an interest.
I would say that the butthurt is all yours. A man with a +4SD IQ, a National Merit Finalist, and who got 1590 on his SAT does not trouble himself with a mere flea like myself, unless the flea bite hurts.

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 2:19 PM  

15. Steve: "Mensa is for losers" is a generalization, true, but so is "Blacks are stupid". Either case is a pretty good guide.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 31, 2015 2:28 PM  

Believe it or not my real name is not Cataline Sergius.

No, but it very well could be Gunny Danger or Top Sergeant Leatherneck.

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 2:29 PM  

20. Rhys O'Reilly: I did read that post about the inappropriately excluded. They were losers. They did not recognize their situation and take steps to remedy it. It's possible for the 150 IQd person to make themselves and their ideas accessible to the normals, if they will only learn how it's done. Good teachers do it all the time.

Blogger Harsh August 31, 2015 2:30 PM  

Bragging about your mensa card vs bragging about your lawn...discuss...

It might actually be easier to get into Mensa than to have a full, lustrous green lawn.

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 2:35 PM  

66. SwiftFoxMark: What kind of car was the obese Mensa driving? And in what condition?

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan August 31, 2015 3:21 PM  

Just stop right now, PhillipGeorge. You literally don't know what you're talking about. The term "ambiguity" does not indicate the general English word, but a specific rhetorical technique favored by sophists to which Aristotle referred in his De Sophisticis Elenchis

Plus, this was in any case self-evidend from the original sentence structure in which VD used the word "ambiguity". Few things look dumber than a supposedly smart guy trying to look smart and making elementary mistakes.

Blogger Dexter August 31, 2015 3:24 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dexter August 31, 2015 3:26 PM  

I am a member of Mensa. I have found membership to be a two edged sword. I joined specifically so I could put it on my resume to differentiate myself from other candidates. It has produced positive reactions from interviewers. Surprisingly, it has also produced a number of negative reactions.

(eyeroll) That's pretty much like mentioning your undergrad GPA or SAT scores on your resume. Stinks of trying too hard. Might be something to do on your first job application but after that, forget it.

If I have two otherwise identical resumes on my desk from applicants:
1. Mensa membership, no relevant work experience
2. No mensa membership, a year of relevant work experience

Guess who gets the offer?

Blogger Civis Silas August 31, 2015 3:40 PM  

I'm not a fan of Scalzi, but frankly I'm horrified that any author who knows he has a significant following would publicly be so flippant about his mediocre academics. I can speculate as to why he'd act that way, but it is a bad example nonetheless. His refusal to recognize it for what it is shows disrespect for both the institution and his own person.

I myself was an underachiever as an undergrad, and did only slightly better than Scalzi. I'll also be the first to tell you it was laziness and immaturity on my part that led to my mediocre performance. Looking back, I would prefer to have spent that time either taking my academics seriously or electing to educate myself in lieu of enrollment.

Anonymous Alexander, #10 August 31, 2015 3:58 PM  

His refusal to recognize it for what it is shows disrespect for both the institution and his own person.

Whether it's his undergrad GPA or his upper body strength vis-a-vis his daughter, this is classic Scalzi.

Blogger Civis Silas August 31, 2015 4:03 PM  

@136 The thing is, I can't tell if he actually has convinced himself that there's no shame in it, or if deep down he knows and is afraid to admit it. Is he self-deluded or just shameless?

Blogger Russell (106) August 31, 2015 4:15 PM  

@137 Civis: Is he self-deluded or just shameless?

Why not both?

Anonymous Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery August 31, 2015 4:34 PM  

Cataline Sergius - Do male SJWs secrete some kind of specialized hormone that does this to them overtime? A sort of anti-testosterone?

Not sure what you mean. Check out the pecs on this guy.

Anonymous Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery August 31, 2015 4:38 PM  

Russell - please read my new book, "Pinkshirts: A Novel with Three Condors"

It's a very clever, very meta, very trans-pre-postmodern book about a chubby little SJW who gets sent to the circle of Hell reserved for plagiarists, where he is doomed to be eternally pecked in the scrotum by a trio of razor-beaked condors who cry tears made of vinegar.

It's mostly just copied and pasted from "Whatever" and I did the illustrations myself in MS Paint while high on opiates, but it's still more entertaining than other coloured shirt-based book titles you may have heard of. Though it does not include blowjobs.

Blogger VD August 31, 2015 4:40 PM  

It's possible for the 150 IQd person to make themselves and their ideas accessible to the normals, if they will only learn how it's done. Good teachers do it all the time.

Teachers average less than 100 IQ. Good teachers do not have 150 IQs.

OpenID trunthepaige August 31, 2015 4:45 PM  

MidKnight (#138) I accept that there are usually acceptations to be found to any rule. But for most the love of a subject indicates talent in it. And the hate of a subject shows a lack of talent. Once we get past basic core subjects, sure this might all go out the window. Underwater basket weaving just might be boring.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2015 4:51 PM  

@139. Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery

Does anyone else experience an unexplained foreboding and overwhelming sense of doom when they see a link posted by Steve?

To click or not to click . . . that is the question.

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The links and pics of outrageous httm's

Or to take arms against a sea of images,
And by opposing end them.

To die, to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That the retinas are heir to.

Blogger Russell (106) August 31, 2015 4:54 PM  

@Steve

I was going to, but I was triggered by your microagression of being a vinegarist, which we all know is just code for anti-Actinobacteriaist. Check your gram-negative privilege, shitlord.

We all need to be more aware of struggles and oppression of Actinobacteria, and your casual use of vinegar just drives it home how much further we, as a society, still need to go.

Oh, and it's not "he", it's xe, or xir, or wu, or something. We'll change it next year, so don't get too attached.

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 31, 2015 5:05 PM  

I myself was an underachiever as an undergrad, and did only slightly better than Scalzi. I'll also be the first to tell you it was laziness and immaturity on my part that led to my mediocre performance.

Not me. This minion didn't make THAT mistake. No fuckin' way! The sex...the drugs...the rock 'n roll!

But especially the sex. Damn that was a fun time. Started as a freshman less than a year after getting back from two tours in Vietnam, back-to-back. I deserved a break...and took full advantage it all, I'm happy to say.

Blogger Civis Silas August 31, 2015 5:15 PM  

@145 But did you check your privilege?

Blogger VFM bot #188 August 31, 2015 5:24 PM  

You kiddin' me? For anyone with any sense at all, "privilege"---whether it be white, natural athlete, high-IQ, good looking, big-&-strong, or whatever---each is a feature, not a bug. SJW's just don't get that...and so much the better for all us normals, LOL.

OpenID gregq August 31, 2015 6:26 PM  

Mensa? The people who are in the (to be generous) incredibly narrow range of top 1.8% <= Mensa <= 2%?

Or, to put it more clearly, people who are really, and unjustifiably, impressed by their own intelligence?

Blogger SciVo August 31, 2015 7:15 PM  

That Would Be Telling @120: "Which means he knows for an absolute fact he's not that smart, since those old fashioned SATs are a very good proxy for IQ, for example, the IQ test I took in high school and the IQ you get from my SATs after using the handy conversion tables both say 3SD+ like our host, are within a point or two."

Hey, thanks! Those handy tables (and a flexible converter) were an easy search away. So now I know, from my SAT and GRE scores, somewhere between +3.5 and +4 SD... and that and $2 will get me a cup of coffee. ;)

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 7:24 PM  

141. VD: Good teachers do not have IQs of 150, but they are noticeably above average. 115-125, perhaps? There's quite a spread between a 120 IQ adult and a 100 IQ 13 year old, but skillful teachers can reach across it. Some of that is native talent and some is good technique, but I see no reason that the brilliant can't do what the merely intelligent can. I don't suggest that the high IQed "inappropriately excluded" should be teaching high school algebra, but they could learn to make themselves approachable and intelligible to the right hand side of the bell curve.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2015 7:36 PM  

Under the category of "always project," one can't help but notice that Scalzi is mocking a Latina immigrant from a dictatorial Communist regime as an inheritor of ease and privilege.

Easiest difficulty setting, indeed.

Blogger Anthony August 31, 2015 7:47 PM  

A departed friend once referred to Mensa as "the society for over-intelligent underachievers", and he pointed out that there were lots of very smart people actually accomplishing things, and that the upper ranks of business were one place to look for many of them - that highly intelligent didn't have to mean impractical or ivory-tower or "creative".

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2015 8:01 PM  

Good teachers do not have IQs of 150, but they are noticeably above average. 115-125, perhaps?

Seems unlikely. In general, education students have some of the worst college entrance scores of any field that's not specifically designed to help athletes pass. When I was momentarily at college 25 years ago, it was understood that girls who couldn't hack harder subjects switched to Elementary Education (guys who couldn't hack engineering generally went to business management or something like that). From what I've heard, it's still that way.

Now granted, there aren't many college students with IQs below 80, so the average is somewhere above 100. But with nearly 50% of Americans getting degrees, there are a lot of people just a hair over 100 on campus. Whatever the range is, teachers as a group are at the bottom of it, so I'd guess most cluster between 100-110.

When you specifically say "good teachers," who knows. I don't think high intelligence necessarily makes a good teacher, but they might be a bit higher. But 120, which would put them in the 90th percentile? I doubt it.

Blogger Groot August 31, 2015 8:55 PM  

I remember my first IQ test, when I was in first and second grade. Even at the age of seven, I thought it comical to watch their heads explode. I took the tests (they made me take several, to confirm, I guess) in first grade, and they bumped me to second, so it was one year.

Anonymous Discard August 31, 2015 9:13 PM  

153 Cail Corishev: I'm no professional IQ guesser, but the really good ones I've worked with are definitely and obviously above average. If the average professor has an IQ of 125, these people don't fall much below that.
When I was in school, teachers were smarter than today. Many were farm or working class kids, to whom becoming a schoolteacher was a real step up. Many were women that nowadays would have gone to law school. Still, there are smart people today who think that teaching children is about the best job you could have. For example, me. And a number of sharp Mexican women fit the first-generation-off-the-bottom profile. So yes, there are still good, smart teachers who can connect with people not nearly as smart as themselves. And they do a much better job of it than the not-so-bright ones. They're smart enough to see the gap and figure out how to bridge it.

Anonymous dc red dogs August 31, 2015 11:00 PM  

discard - you are of course right about teachers - and C.C. is, in this case, someone I disagree with. There are few better ways of spending one's life, even in these degenerate times, than as a useful high school teacher. This is a way of life that many people have access to - What many people do not understand is that Mexicans are, at worst, half an SD less in IQ than Anglo-Americans - and, to be blunt, I am certain that 10 Mexicans working for a good leader (such as myself when younger, a VFW member - a real one, not an internet one, but that is off topic) could easily outperform 10 similarly situated Anglo-Americans working for an average leader (looked at another way, Patton in charge of a hundred Mexicans would defeat, ceteris paribus, the average Mexican general in charge of 114 Anglo-Americans - I worked the math and it is correct). History has not turned out that way, of course, but history is not always reliable. That being said, John Scalzi is not a Dunning Krueger guy, because he has never said that he is smarter than a smart guy, he has only said that he and Vox are average dudes and that he is right and that Vox is wrong. Finally, I would hate to work at a car wash, as would you, but to work at an engine repair shop - there are not many people who post on the internet, or even many people who win multiple Hugos, who are as lucky as the guys who work at engine repair shops. Just saying, I think I get the "nuances" of your "car wash" comment, a nuance your critics on this thread seem to have missed. Finally, there is a poster here named Nate who should be pissed that Vox's employees did not delete comment 26 from Nate M, who said something unChristian and unfair about someone he does not know (don't ever make fun of the relatives of people you disagree with, that is unacceptable, and un - Christian- even Belloc rarely descended that low, and Chesterton never did).

Anonymous Jack Amok September 01, 2015 12:37 AM  

Are you guys talking about teachers in college, or K-12?

Cause if you're talking about K-12, the average is below 100 and while "good" teachers may be in the 115-120 range, they are rare enough to not be a factor in any serious discussion. 1 "good" teacher with a 120 IQ among a faculty of 30 or more low-90's IQs is hardly going to make a dent in the problem.

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) September 01, 2015 12:40 AM  

BLOW ME DOWN
DannyR

Anonymous Discard September 01, 2015 12:55 AM  

157 Jack Amok: The original subject was not the number of intelligent high school teachers, but the ability of an intelligent person to explain things to someone much less intelligent. See comments 20, 129, 141, 150, 153.

Anonymous dc red dogs September 01, 2015 1:01 AM  

Jack Amok - I have a few friends who are high school teachers, and a few friends who would have been high school teachers if they did not have more important things to do, including navy commanders and CEOs. You may be right , but I think your estimate of high school teacher IQ is way low. My guess is that things are not all that bad in high schools,which are sort of like gated communities where everyone gets constant positive feedback, the problem is that high school diplomas used to be worth something and now they are, absent connections, worthless, we can argue all day about the average IQs of high school teachers, the problem is that high school kids are told they are wonderful and full of promise and that is usually, from the economic point of view, a lie, as anybody with empathy can easily understand.

Anonymous Discard September 01, 2015 1:17 AM  

156. dc red dogs: The hardest mechanical job I've ever done was replacing a transmission gear in a Triumph motorcycle. I love motorcycles, but I was never was a grease monkey. But now I spend most of my free time making things and fixing things. A French drain for my fruit tree. Remounting an ancient drill press. An improved cup holder/bookshelf/GPS mount/coin box/compass for my truck. If I won the lotto, I'd open a school and teach math and shop myself.

The worst thing about Mexicans is not their lower intelligence or even their violence, it's their lack of civic mindedness. I agree, if well-led, they could do a lot more than they do now. But their society doesn't produce good leaders. Look up the hajnal line if you've got some time.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) September 01, 2015 1:39 AM  

@trunthepaige

Fair point, and I think generally correct.

I know in my case - I tend to do better in abstract/conceptual math and systems interrelationships than memorizing lists of stuff.

In my case, and a number of otherwise "smart" people I knew, we were underachievers until actually challenged, and would have done far better in school if we'd actually spent even a pittance of time on the work rather than on other hobbies.

I know, not "smart" - but school seemed a crock for the most part. And there were far more interesting things to do - like calculate constant-acceleration travel times to different destinations for Traveller, or figuring out how to optimize code for the Epson printer at my house, or rewriting bits of Telengard. Or swim.

Anonymous dc red dogs September 01, 2015 5:30 AM  

discard- I hope I did not give the impression that I think working with engines is easy. Maybe almost everyone who visits this site understands that a car wash and an engine shop are in completely different universes, I just got the impression that the difference was not clear enough for one or more commenters. My last real mechanical experience was a decade ago when I found out after a lot of frustration that the tires on my old car did not come off, even with the rusted lug nuts completely removed, without being repeatedly hit by a two by four. Still I was lucky to go to high school when shop (I think they call it industrial arts) was a required course.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 01, 2015 7:37 AM  

C.C. is, in this case, someone I disagree with. There are few better ways of spending one's life, even in these degenerate times, than as a useful high school teacher.

Please point to where I said anything bad about teachers, or anything that disagrees with this. Do you think saying someone has an average IQ is a put-down? Because I don't.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan September 01, 2015 7:49 AM  

I'm not a genius either. My IQ is above the so-called "genius" level, but I think that's a ridiculous term. Genius is about unique and genuine ACCOMPLISHMENT, not potential. Nothing I've done merits the label.

I believe my first communication with Vox, which he posted, stated he is not actually an arrogant man. I believe the above confirms it.

For myself, I would say that once my contentions regarding Mars have finally been proven and accepted at a gloval level, sometime in the future, anyone who reads my first book might say "he was a genius!" but in truth, my singular accomplishment in that field would have been more one of persistence in looking at many different topics at once and seeing the synthesis between them.

Whether that is true genius might be arguable, but I don't really see it that way, and I suspect most so-called geniuses would see it the same way.
If SJWAL becomes a global bestseller it will have an impact on the planet and that would be an accomplishment, and for my part I would respect Vox's persistence and synthesis of the whole subject matter as indeed "genial", but I doubt he himself would necessarily see that as equivalent to "yeah, me and Tesla.... The same!"
I have met a few genuinely genial people and without exception I found them to be actually humble.
It speaks ro a lesser law of SJWs : They are too arrogant to be smart.

Anonymous dc red dogs September 01, 2015 8:43 AM  

CC - I misread your last paragraph, first sentence, where you said " good teachers - who knows", to mean, good teachers, who knows if they even exist. My mistake, which I made because I mistook your statement about high-IQ not correlating to being a good teacher (with which I agree) as following from your statement that you doubted "they" were in the 90th percentile - reading "they" as meaning "as a practical matter, any of them" rather than reading "they" in the context of "good teachers as a group on average." So I can't say you said anything bad about teachers (of course saying a group has average IQ or less than 120 IQ is not an insult).

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan September 01, 2015 9:34 AM  

Rabbi B,
No, you are most definitely not alone. I hover over the links Steve TDNOM puts up for seconds before clicking them, even though I know my retinas will grow back, being The Kurgan.
If he were not on our side we would have to kill him just to get a semblance, nay a MOCKERY of Justice.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 01, 2015 10:07 AM  

Dc red dogs, no problem, I may not have been clear. It happens sometimes, especially at 5:30am.

As it happens, my mom was a teacher, and I now do some part-time teaching. I do think high IQ is helpful in being a "good teacher," at least in the way I try to do it, because it helps you figure out what they're getting wrong faster. And it generally correlates with greater knowledge, which helps too. But it's probably less important than patience, dedication, and other virtues.

Anonymous Discard September 01, 2015 2:53 PM  

163. dc red dogs: Don't over think things. It's a rare comment I make that I don't wish I'd edited a bit more.
I was fortunate too. My jr high school had wood shop, metal shop, electric shop, print shop, plastics shop, and one more I can't recall. Drafting? All gone now. They auctioned off all the equipment.

Anonymous Discard September 01, 2015 3:40 PM  

168. Cail Corishev: Depends on what you call a "high" IQ. I'd guess that +1 SD or thereabouts is required to be a good teacher. You have to be smart enough to actually understand the material, not just regurgitate it. You ought be smart enough to have actually belonged in a college, rather than simply paid tuition and filled a seat. Consider: How smart do you have to be to actually understand and use trigonometry? The average person, with IQ 100, can't do it. English and history teachers don't need to know trigonometry, but they should be as able as the math teachers are in their own subject.

Beyond having a better grasp of the material, higher intelligence allows you to come up with different ways to present it. For me, that was always the real work of teaching, coming up with ways to connect the new stuff to something they already knew. It's not rocket science, but it's beyond the average teacher. They can repeat what's in the assigned curriculum, follow directions, try to use the techniques they practiced in ed school, and get some knowledge into the kids' heads. Patience and dedication are necessary, but without sufficient intelligence and imagination, they can only make you a mediocre teacher. As most are.

OK. I'll stop now. My Obsessive Teaching Syndrome is lighting up.

Anonymous dc red dogs September 01, 2015 9:20 PM  

Discard - we had print shop (its own room), drafting class, pottery shop, carpentry shop, woodworking shop and sheet metal (and welding) shop in another room, and automotive shop for the seniors in some weird annex near the gym. No plastics shop and no electric shop, but I am older than you, maybe they had that later .... I hated pottery shop.

Anonymous Discard September 02, 2015 2:39 AM  

171, dc red dogs: Isn't pottery shop where the artsy girls were? I had a photo of my girlfriend at the wheel, splattered with clay and very attractive for it.

Anonymous delta c red dogs September 02, 2015 9:39 PM  

Discard - I have no doubt that I wasted many opportunities in high school to appreciate artsy girls. I have made up for it since, I hope - the women in my life have been more artsy than not. I would not have hated pottery shop if I had a girlfriend, attractive or not, taking it with me. I only spent three years in high school and the first two and a half years were, unfortunately, girl-friend-free.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 03, 2015 6:35 PM  

It's been a while, but I ran across this set of estimates of the IQs of college graduates in different fields, based on their SAT scores, so I thought I'd add it for posterity.

It has teachers broken down into a few different types, but they're all near the bottom of the list. Elementary Ed: 108, Student Counseling 105. Only Social Work does worse.

It's worth noting that even the highest field, Physics & Astronomy, only averaged 133. They're not all Sheldons. In this community at VP, 120 is no big deal, but the curve drops sharply in that range; and the likelihood of a particular IQ appearing in the general population drops fast as you go down the curve. 120 isn't nearly as common as you'd guess from talking here. When you're talking about a large group, such as millions of teachers, you can't expect a high average. A group that large with a 125 average would include a lot of startlingly smart people, and we just don't see that.

Or look at it this way:

Number of teachers in the US: 7.2M
Number of Americans with IQs of 130+: 7.1M
Number of Americans with IQs of 125+: 14.8M
Number of Americans with IQs of 120+: 28.3M
Number of Americans with IQs of 115+: 26.1M
Number of Americans with IQs of 110+: 78.3M
Number of Americans with IQs of 105+: 114.5M

Anonymous Discard September 03, 2015 7:38 PM  

174 Cail Corishev: Something's wrong with the numbers.

Number of Americans with IQs of 120+: 28.3 million.
Number of Americans with IQs of 115+: 26.1 Million.

More 120+ IQs than 115+ IQs?

In any case, I know that the average IQ for teachers is nowhere near 115, let alone 125. But most of them are mediocre. The good ones are smarter. Decades ago, before smart women started rushing off to law school, they were teachers or nurses. I wouldn't doubt that they had an average IQ of 120. We kids benefitted greatly.


delta c: That artsy girl of mine eventually got herself a smart tenured nerd. (The pottery class was college, not high school) She's probably better off with him.

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