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Tuesday, August 25, 2015

What will Vox do?

The SJWs are worried:

“The real burning question is, 'what will Vox Day attack next?'”
- Charles Stross

"What will happen in 2016. We both know the question is what will Vox Day do? The Sad Puppy plans are secondary to what ever Vox Day does. I assume he will try to run some kind of disruption campaign but what kind we won’t know until next year."
- Camestros Felapton

Of course, I am not at liberty to reveal the Rabid Puppy 2 strategy, in part because we are still in the first two stages of the OODA loop, observing and orienting. (Sorry, Tom, I couldn't resist.) But in the interest of further demoralizing the already-retreating enemy, I'm not reluctant to reveal one of the new weapons in our arsenal.

That's right. The Evil Legion of Evil is training a corps of Amphibious Assault Otters. Armed with acid-filled squirt guns and supported by a crack squad of Attack Manatees, they will emerge from the rivers and literally melt the faces of the SJWs attempting to burn bridges as they continue to retreat. Good day, sir! I said good day!

In other news, the International Lord of Hate has pronounced his verdict on the 2015 awards. He does not sound especially pleased with SF fandom. Consequences may never be the same.
Before Sad Puppies came along, Toni had never received a Hugo nomination. Zero. The above-mentioned Patrick Nielsen Hayden has 8 15. Toni’s problem was that she just didn’t care and she didn’t play the WorldCon politics. Her only concern was making the fans happy. She publishes any author who can do that, regardless of their politics. She’s always felt that the real awards were in the royalty checks. Watching her get ignored was one of the things that spurred me into starting Sad Puppies. If anybody deserved the Hugo, it was her.

This year Toni got a whopping 1,216 first place votes for Best Editor. That isn’t just a record. That is FOUR TIMES higher than the previous record. Shelia Gilbert came in next with an amazing 754. I believe that Toni is such a class act that beforehand she even said she thought Shelia Gilbert deserved to win. Fans love Toni.

Logically you would think that she would be award worthy, since the only Baen books to be nominated for a Hugo prior to Sad Puppies were edited by her (Bujold) and none of those were No Awarded. Last year she had the most first place votes, and came in second only after the weird Australian Rules voting kicked in (don’t worry everybody, they just voted to make the system even more complicated), so she was apparently award worthy last year.

Toni Weisskopf has been part of organized Fandom (capital F) since she was a little kid, so all that bloviating about how Fandom is precious, and sacred, and your special home since the ‘70s which you need to keep as a safe space free of barbarians, blah, blah, blah, yeah, that applies to Toni just as much as it does to you CHORFs.  You know how you guys paid back her lifetime of involvement in Fandom?

By giving 2,496 votes to No Award....

The real winner this year was Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies. Yep. You CHORFing idiots don’t seem to realize that Brad, Sarah, and I were the reasonable ones who spent most of the summer talking Vox out of having his people No Award the whole thing to burn it down, but then you did it for him. He got the best of both worlds. Oh, but now you’re going to say that Three Body Problem won, and that’s a victory for diversity! You poor deluded fools… That was Vox’s pick for best novel. That’s the one most of the Rabid Puppies voted for too.

Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT.
There is no question that the Rabid Puppies and I won this year. In addition to hand-picking Best Novel and burning five awards (we should have had seven, dammit), I received more votes for Best Editor than Patrick Nielsen Hayden ever has. Also, and perhaps more importantly, I'm not going to be fired for attacking a female Tor Books author in public at a professional venue.

Screaming about "blood libels" at a woman of Jewish descent, Patrick? Really?

Labels: ,

242 Comments:

1 – 200 of 242 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Chris Scena August 25, 2015 12:05 PM  

Wait, is there really a chance PNH will face ANY professional condemnation for his misconduct?

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan August 25, 2015 12:12 PM  

I dunno, but I am sending a full blown hardcopy letter to mcmillan. It will be scathing. And I will leave a copy on my blog as an open letter.

Blogger Giraffe August 25, 2015 12:14 PM  

Well we're already boycotting them, so that bullet has been fired. I guess this just demonstrates we were wright to do so.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 25, 2015 12:14 PM  

This one will be interesting. As Vox points out, yelling Nazi at a Christian is for some reason acceptable in today's society. Yelling anything remotely anti-Semitic at a Jew is going to get a lot more sympathy in a court room. If Mrs. Wright decides to push the issue and threatens legal action I believe Macmillan will take notice and swift action. Especially now, since this sort of behavior from Tor management was brought to their attention just a couple months ago.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 12:16 PM  

"Wait, is there really a chance PNH will face ANY professional condemnation for his misconduct?"

Probably not.

Especially if he offers the I-am-sorry-IF-my-comments-may-have-offended-you-or-made-you-feel-bad-I-am-not-really-responsible-for-my-actions-because-I-really-didn't-do-anything-wrong-it's-really-all-your-fault-anyway-save-my-face-at-any-cost-spineless-nutless-I-am-never-wrong-ever-no-matter-what-because-I-always-lie-anyway-you-shoul-be-apologizing-to-me-NON-APOLOGY.

Heck, if it was good enough for GRRM, it should be good enough for all of us.

Blogger jay c August 25, 2015 12:18 PM  

Ok. The first time was a little funny and also a little weird, but I have to admit that the more you repeat it, the funnier it gets.

Anonymous RedJack #22 August 25, 2015 12:18 PM  

Wright and MHI appear to be offline.
DNS attack or my crappy internet?

Anonymous Krul August 25, 2015 12:19 PM  

"What will Vox do?"

What does the Vox say?

Anonymous Dave August 25, 2015 12:21 PM  

I can't believe there are no recordings of the PNH outburst. Cmon TMZ? Anyone? Oh to have YouTube of that all over the net

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 12:22 PM  

MHI was having "Error establishing a database connection" last night too.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 12:23 PM  

You guys really know how to run a boycott. The genius to vote for first place a book published by the company you're boycotting, wow. Even better you riled up the press so more people than usual would hear info on the awards, in which you all voted first a work published by the company you are boycotting. Then, and this might be the best, you crow about how it was you that achieved this victory for the publishing company you are boycotting. Pure genius gang.

Anonymous Geoff August 25, 2015 12:23 PM  

This is what the Vox says

Blogger Bluntobj Winz August 25, 2015 12:23 PM  

I hunger!

#0178

Blogger Jack Ward August 25, 2015 12:24 PM  

@7 Yeah, if your connection is bad so is mine. Neither Wright or Correia would lock in. Is this what a dos attack looks like? How hard is it to track the attacker[s] back to url?

Anonymous JN August 25, 2015 12:24 PM  

WWVD bracelets in the works?

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 12:25 PM  

"I'm not going to be fired for attacking a female Tor Books author in public at a professional venue."

Does anyone know if she is going to lodge a complaint of some kind?

Blogger Jack Ward August 25, 2015 12:26 PM  

@11 you really don't understand the principal of good quality, decent story fiction do you? Go hide somewhere until your mommie calls you down for lunch. Or, is it up? you may be living in the basement.

Anonymous DanG August 25, 2015 12:27 PM  

Red Jack: Not just you. I can't reach them either.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell August 25, 2015 12:31 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell August 25, 2015 12:32 PM  

"You did exactly what you said you were going to do, losers."

Blogger Derrick Bonsell August 25, 2015 12:32 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 12:33 PM  

An SJW peers into the mind of Vox Day. Pt. 1 is accessable too. The DreadIlk may find this amusing.

From Pt. 1 intro

With the 2015 Hugo Awards drawing near, I have been pondering how one might end Vox Day, the Sci-Fi community's most boogiest of boogie men. I've been reading Vox's blog Vox Populi semi-religiously since last year's Hugo kerfuffle, and if the one unforgivable sin is being boring, then the man may qualify for sainthood. I...I kind of love him now.

Before diving into the topic at hand, I want establish two things. First, "Killing Vox Day" does not mean "murdering Vox Day" or "physically harming Vox Day." As a pacifist, I do not even condone "wedgieing Vox Day." To kill Vox Day is to kill his credibility and to undermine the momentum of the Rabid Puppies.

Second, I have approached this as a purely mental exercise. This is a war game of the sort Vox himself loves so much, not an actual plan.

As in all games, we must first set the board. Let's start with the Boss Monster. Here are a few conclusions I have come to about Vox Day.

Blogger Chris DeBoe August 25, 2015 12:42 PM  

MHI has given "database connection error" for a couple of days now, and is due to migrate servers this week. As I recall, the administrator said it was a load problem but not DoS.

SciFiWright was okay last night (US East Coast night); just now, it returned "The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems".

It also appears that either Kate Paulk's FB was hacked, or a bogus account was created to spam. Kate will be the SP4 coordinator. But I'm sure that's just a coincidence.....

Anonymous Nathan August 25, 2015 12:50 PM  

It wasn't until I realized that the logorrhea of #11 and all too many of the trolling of Puppy blogs boiled down to "FEEL BAD" that I realized the genius of "We don't care."

Enlightenment comes late for some of us.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 12:53 PM  

You sound an awful lot like an SJW. Projecting like that.

Anonymous Soga August 25, 2015 12:55 PM  

An SJW peers into the mind of Vox Day. Pt. 1 is accessable too. The DreadIlk may find this amusing.

Heh, that moron. The methods of "fighting back" he lists are things SJWs at large will NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER go for.

Stop fighting us? OK, we win then.

Get 4GW allies to fight us? Good luck with that, SJWs. You're hated by the majority of people, even if they don't say that to your faces. They hate you precisely because you are SJWs, because you align yourself against common decency and freedom of speech. You're morally rotten people that made yourselves very unlikable.

Live and let live? We're not the aggressors here, SJWs. This war was your own making. 4GW is our response.

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 12:59 PM  

Stop fighting us? OK, we win then.

Now, check this out.

Posted in Amazing Stories, by Frank Wu.

Blogger Matt #0083 August 25, 2015 1:02 PM  

Wright's site went down at about 10:30 EDT today. I was in the process of editing a comment. VERY intermittent connectivity since then. MHN also throwing database connection errors much more frequently this morning than the last few weeks, but they already knew they had a load problem and hopefully will be solving it tomorrow. My networking skills are woefully out of date (Netware 5, haha) and I never had much to do with routing and the Internet, but it seems likely that Wright's issue is an attack.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 1:03 PM  

TrAvis lanDenwitsch?

T.A.D.?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 25, 2015 1:04 PM  

So I take it that the antagonists of the RPs are working to ensure the survival of TOR's blockade of art and for the clique of trolls to remain the gatekeepers?

I just don't see them as a natural elite, they seem so pedestrian and prolish for me to put much stock in what they say

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 1:08 PM  

Minion #10 hungers for the bones of our enemies. Also, I like otters. So really a win-win all around.

Anonymous Soga August 25, 2015 1:09 PM  

The SJWs in power won't listen to Frank. To make peace with Puppies is to bring back the very qualities in SciFi that triggered them in the first place. Remember, we're talking about child molesters and people that willfully associate with them here. Christian virtues in books that also show pagan practices in a less than savory manner would send so many of them into a spiraling rage. We're talking GigaHitler levels of FeelBads.

It is an amazing story, though...

Blogger Matt #0083 August 25, 2015 1:11 PM  

I just don't see them as a natural elite

Very much an unnatural one, I would say.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 25, 2015 1:12 PM  

"Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT."

You know, Larry is really good at making things easy to understand. It would be hard to make this any more clear.

Blogger IM2L844 August 25, 2015 1:16 PM  

@27

Stop fighting us? OK, we win then.

Now, check this out.

Posted in Amazing Stories, by Frank Wu.


Read like something that came directly after the realization: "Oh fuck, what have we just done?"

Anonymous Obvious August 25, 2015 1:18 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz August 25, 2015 1:19 PM  

@27

No. We don't care.

Compromise is #Cuckservative.

VFM demand skulls for the Dark Lord.

#0178

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 25, 2015 1:25 PM  

@14 These are for-hire hackers bought and paid for by SJWs who wouldn't know which way up to plug in a USB cable. They usually cover their tracks well.

Blogger rycamor August 25, 2015 1:28 PM  

Consequences may never be the same.

I, for one, am happy to see one of Florida's few contributions to literary memes continue to be used so effectively.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 1:34 PM  

@27

Ha! Sure we just spat in your face, No Awarded Toni Weisskopf, Jim Butcher, and John C. Wright, libeled you in every news article anywhere in the world we could, and then burned down the awards to prevent you from taking one.

But hey, that's all bye-gones, eh? And just because we've never even nominated Butcher or Wright or Toni before... we totally could have, if only they hadn't been slated. So send in the works and we'll totally have a look at them.

... well, except for the fact that we're cheering the fact that they were all labeled 'bad-to-reprehensible'. But good faith, honest!

Nuts

OpenID mickoneverything August 25, 2015 1:36 PM  

@#22 thanks for sharing that. He seems much more intelligent and dare I say even open minded than the average SJW. Is he possibly doing some deep cover work?

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 1:43 PM  

@41 He's definitely a more dangerous player than your average SJW, though I see no ability to rally any troops. His prescriptions go against SJW emotionalism.

Blogger MendoScot August 25, 2015 1:44 PM  

Yeah, their crowing didn’t last long. Now comes that sinking feeling - down, down, where the otters are.

Genetically-enhanced Elixir-quaffing cyberotters.

Anonymous Hawk S. Rabidus August 25, 2015 1:50 PM  

@11
Travis Bandersnatchi isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer, is he?

You've got to be pretty stupid to show up here and pick the lowest fruit possible in your quest to show that Vox and his gang are dimwitted.

Vox himself said that the ban involves books from Tor in the future. If you've got Tor books on your shelf that you've not yet read, you might as well read them. And if they're good, it reflects on the authors, doesn't it? Which means that Vox won't be nominating future Tor books because he won't be reading them, but also means that he won't expunge all past Tor reads as "evilthink" and use mind bleach to cleanse the stains.

It's not that hard to admit that Vox is quite bright, and it's a shocking realization to discover that he's also very noble. He does what he says he will do, and you can count on that. You can also count on him not blindsiding you if you don't try to do so first yourself.

But you're not even on that level, Travis. You're just anklebiting here.

Blogger Bodichi (0031) August 25, 2015 1:53 PM  

@27 Salt

It cannot be saved. Sewage cannot be saved. Wine and Sewage cannot live together, they both become sewage.

It must be destroyed.

By fire.

Blogger Caedryn - VFM #54 August 25, 2015 1:58 PM  

Reminder @27
Frank Wu is the life partner of John Flynt, aka Brianna Wu. He doesn't seem all that bad, but the SJW runs deep with him.

Also, blow it out your ass, Frank. I would guarantee you didn't bother reading any of our 2014 nominees since you have made no writings about their quality or content, so why should we bother spoon feeding you the 2015 nominees for you to not read?

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 25, 2015 2:03 PM  

@1 "Wait, is there really a chance PNH will face ANY professional condemnation for his misconduct?"

I tried to pin down MRK yesterday on Twitter to denounce the outburst by PNH, but she came back with JCW is a liar and Jagi said it wasn't as bad as John made it out to be and she'd need a secondary confirmation, and IF this and IF that, first blah blah blah.

And then somehow she couldn't figure out how it was misogynistic that:
-a supposed professional Tor editor, perhaps the most powerful editor in the scifi field
-at a public scifi con where he's been professionally awarded 15 times
-verbally assaulting a somewhat obscure professional Tor author
-an author who was trying to reconcile things but who herself had nothing to do with it
-assaulting her for simply being the WIFE of a badthinker
-rather than confronting her husband with whom he had the disagreement while the husband was indisposed and unable to defend her
-the husband who was publicly available for a quick chat many times over the course of the weekend.

No, not misogynistic at all to publicly cuss out the wife of the man you have an argument with while he's elsewhere.

"You are professional writers, so should know the power of words."

It's all on my timeline (assuming she didn't delete any) and I archived it all. They're all rabid weasels.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 25, 2015 2:03 PM  

Obviously the SJWs didn't realize that they were tying their own nooses and Vox was simply stepping back and letting them hang themselves.

Neither did the majority of the Sad Puppies as well.

Anonymous Hawk S. Rabidus August 25, 2015 2:05 PM  

So, speaking for myself, I voted for the first time in the Hugos because of the Puppy initiative. I wanted to be sure that the Hugos represented quality, and did not exist to serve any political agenda or special interest clique.

So, yes, I am not a Puppy supporter. But, surprisingly, I did read all of the nominated works. And I voted accordingly.

I did not vote according to a bloc. I did not no-award everything to burn it down. I voted Mike Resnick, Toni Weisskopf, and Sheila Gilbert, and was shocked that at least two of those three names didn't win. I voted for Rajnar Vajra, and Arlan Andrews, and Kary English.

And I did no-award John C. Wright on "One Bright Star to Guide Them", because of the annoying info-dumps, but I consider him a first-rate author who is Hugo-worthy, if not for that story.

So... just for the record a few of those new memberships were people that were actually trying to do their best to make the Hugos stay true to the intended goal of being awards determined by actual fans on the basis of quality.

If for nothing else whatsoever, the fact that a lifelong SF reader as myself finally voted shows that the Puppy movement has brought new attention to the Hugos by people that truly care.

But... I am at best a moderate, and as such I'm quite sure you have very little patience for the space I take up here. Just wanted to let lurkers know that their are cooler heads prevailing in some of the folks who are not filling your ranks.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 2:09 PM  

Vox himself said that the ban involves books from Tor in the future.

That's not even the worst of it. The worst is that this betrays how they think. Hugos are supposed to be about the authors. They are supposed to reward the best literary output. And that's what Vox did, with no consideration for how it might help his enemies. This is integrity.

But they don't even have the concept of integrity. They see the Hugos merely as a tool for an end. Not only do they consider integrity and reject it, they don't even understand it when they see it.

Now, how we spend our own money is a different matter. When we reach into our wallets, we are supporting something with our own money. And currently that involves supporting Tor. So, we cannot do that in good conscience.

Now, if Liu Cixin were able to sell us an English translation of the novel APART from Tor, I highly doubt anyone here would have any qualms for purchasing it.

But if our action leads to someone else indirectly supporting Tor with their money, then that is not on our conscience.

Anonymous DJJ August 25, 2015 2:10 PM  

erm, he's Brianna Wu's "husband"

Anonymous LLC August 25, 2015 2:11 PM  

Shorter Frank Wu:

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

Where have I heard that before?

Blogger Stephen Ward August 25, 2015 2:13 PM  

Frank Wu's call for compromise is no such thing. Here is the telltale line:

"What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

The offered compromise has the puppies giving up the guaranteed ability to get their works on the nomination list in exchange for a _promise_ to seriously consider puppy works - not for nomination, oh no! - but rather for a recommendation to other people to nominate the puppy works.

It is no compromise at all.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 2:18 PM  

Really effective way to run a boycott. Seriously if you're too stupid to see how it might be counterproductive to vote for a company you're supposed to be boycotting for an award, nothing I say will help.

OpenID crash August 25, 2015 2:18 PM  

@41 Not really,

He is calling upon SJWs to abandon their prize (Running a crony system, disguised as fairness), and abandon their perk of being jackasses without fearing retribution. The chances of either actually happening are slim to none.

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 2:19 PM  

Frank Wu's call for compromise is no such thing.

Of course not. It is telling, though. RP2 scares them to no ends.

Anonymous dh August 25, 2015 2:19 PM  

F.U. is offering things he can't promise.

The slate has the left very worried. The water carriers who pushed through EPH don't realize that the people behind EPH are enabling carve out's for the industry publishers who just want their 1 or 2 nominations per year.

But EPH is extremely limited in effectively "solving" anything. It is a basic mathematical operation on how to distribute your nominating votes to effectively lock up the entire ballot.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 2:21 PM  

Really effective way to run a boycott.

Integrity comes before the boycott. But I fully understand that your kind doesn't fathom the concept. Which is exactly the reason why we will not stop until your kind is entirely incapacitated in our society. Nothing less will suffice. You are like a cancer that WILL come back.

Anonymous Nathan August 25, 2015 2:23 PM  

Let's assume goodwill on Frank Wu's part. The problem with his proposal is that it only works if the Sad Puppies admit to something they've been denying all along: that Sad Puppies voted a slate instead of a recommendation list. So both Frank's gesture and the Sad Puppies', assumed they'd agree, would get ignored by the loud howling monkeys screaming "They admitted to voting a slate." Frank's attempts at reconciliation would be just as torpedoed as the "We Are All Fans" movement was at Sasquan.

Anonymous Seneca August 25, 2015 2:23 PM  

He wants to be the gatekeeper. Give up your "slates" and he'll--maybe--put one or two of your works on his "recommendation list." His recommendation list is totally not a slate, probably because he'll make sure his SJW readers know which "recommendations" are puppy compromise candidates so they can avoid voting for them in the nomination process and no award them if they get nominated. He just doesn't want any competing slates/recommendation lists out there.

Here's another compromise suggestion, Mr Wu. Don't put up your own slate. Instead, take the works you think are award worthy and forward them to Vox. If he likes them, I'm sure he'll put them in his recommendation list. And we'll happily demonstrate that it's not a slate by not voting for any SJW trash that somehow tickles his fancy.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 2:23 PM  

"It is no compromise at all."

Doesn't matter. Any compromise is always a concession of defeat. Only those who are interested in losing will compromise. We may nor always win, but it's how we are determined to run every race and fight every battle: to win and secure victory.

@50

Well said. They simply cannot comprehend that there are people in this world who are not serving their own interests, but who are only interested in serving the interests of the truth.

Blogger Groot August 25, 2015 2:24 PM  

@31. Alexander:
"Minion #10 hungers for the bones of our enemies. Also, I like otters."

You otter not eat the otters, no matter how hungry.

Blogger Stephen Ward August 25, 2015 2:25 PM  

Travis

TOR is being boycotted because they haven't fired Irene Gallo for unbecoming and unprofessional conduct, not because the puppies are ideologically opposed to TOR. There is zero conflict between nominating TOR works and boycotting the company.

Blogger Greggzilla Jr August 25, 2015 2:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Hawk S. Rabidus August 25, 2015 2:28 PM  

I promised Vox I would post at most twice on any topic, but I'm hoping he will permit just one more this time.

As for Frank Wu, the telltale line is indeed: "What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

Why should anybody have to do anything in order for people to seriously consider the work? Isn't that the stated job function of any fan who aspires to nominate and vote for the Hugos? If there's any buzz (anywhere) for any particular piece of fiction, it should be obvious that those works needs to be seriously considered. You shouldn't have to barter with any promises whatsoever to have people read your work and have it seriously considered?

Did Frank Wu have any reciprocal demands about other works being taken seriously? Did he say "oh... tit for tat. You also have to read Scalzi and give him serious consideration."

No? Then he's being condescending and paternalistic, and he's deigning to throw you a bone if you behave well as good children.

That's it for me for today.

(Oh, and Travis Bandersnatchi, you had to double down with your stupid notion about the Tor boycott, didn't you?)

Blogger Stephen Ward August 25, 2015 2:28 PM  

@Rabbi

No; compromises exist so you can rest and resupply, they are not a permanent state of affairs, and only the losing party concedes defeat by accepting them.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 2:29 PM  

But aren't you encouraging business for TOR by helping to win an award for one of their books?

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 2:30 PM  

What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?

That is an excellent question.

We would say "SJWs always lie".

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 2:31 PM  

But aren't you encouraging business for TOR by helping to win an award for one of their books?

It's amazing how you don't even read my posts. Did you get triggered before you reached the last paragraph and needed a safe space?

I said: But if our action leads to someone else indirectly supporting Tor with their money, then that is not on our conscience.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 2:32 PM  

Frank Wu mistakes us for Republicans.

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 2:33 PM  

@70

Most assuredly.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 25, 2015 2:35 PM  

So, apparently the asterix/yellow stars/asshole badges were only given out to puppy nominees. Surely this is unethical? DaddyWarpig and others on Twitter are trying to see if it contravenes their by-laws. If it does I for one will be demanding a refund.

These freaks are so sure of their self-righteous nothing is sacred and nothing they do is ever wrong. No wonder their predecessors of previous generations shunned polite society and kept their nihilism to themselves in darkened rooms. How far civilisation has fallen that they feel safe showing their foul faces and spreading their manure in public (or is it the availability of mobility scooters that has freed them from their dungeons?).

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 25, 2015 2:37 PM  

Oh and Frank Wu, we're not Charlie Brown so take your fucking ball home Lucy.

Blogger Civis Silas August 25, 2015 2:38 PM  

Screaming about "blood libels" at a woman of Jewish descent, Patrick? Really?

The black knight cometh

Anonymous Porky August 25, 2015 2:39 PM  

Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT.

Damn. If any of them were capable of shame, this would induce it.

But they aren't.

There's only one thing to do with a seared conscience or a fruitless tree.

Blogger Fatherless August 25, 2015 2:39 PM  

Nuts!

Anonymous Krul August 25, 2015 2:39 PM  

"What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

You SJWs should have seriously considered all the works on the ballot and voted for the most deserving candidate in the first place.

Instead, you put politics over literary merit (again) and voted "No Award".

"Sad Puppies" was your opportunity to prove Larry Correia wrong about you.

You had your chance, Frank. Now it's too late.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 25, 2015 2:41 PM  

The offered compromise has the puppies giving up the guaranteed ability to get their works on the nomination list in exchange for a _promise_ to seriously consider puppy works - not for nomination, oh no! - but rather for a recommendation to other people to nominate the puppy works.

"I am sorry, Sir, but you appear to have mistaken us for Republicans."

Forgive Cataline for quoting Cataline.

Blogger Noah B #120 August 25, 2015 2:43 PM  

Is it too soon to mention the exploding hentai body pillows?

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 25, 2015 2:44 PM  

Do we have any more details about the blood libel? Mrs Wright didn't want to discuss it on Twitter yesterday.

Anonymous NateM August 25, 2015 2:44 PM  

I dunno, i'd say shouting profanity at an otherwise uncontroversial colleague should be a huge red flag, but that's just me. While I know it couldn't have been part of Vox' strategy, sometimes you just harry your opponent to the point they make a fatal mistake. I just wish that fat goon had been stupid enough to try to dress down Mr C Wright himself (for the entertainment of his no doubt verbose and insulting return volley) or if they were there Larry (for the sheer volume of his response, both hilarious and which would draw the attention of EVERYONE) or Vox, for the snort of derision followed by a withering smirk (or if he'd been dumb enough to put his hands on him...)

Anonymous Anonymous! August 25, 2015 2:45 PM  

I can't believe there are no recordings of the PNH outburst.

Vox gave very explicit instructions to his minions to record everything. Ergo...

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 2:45 PM  

Remember folks, we may be ruthless, but we will always have integrity. We won't No Award a deserving nominee dishonestly, just to gain a shallow victory. We will allow the list to be filled with entries that only deserve No Award, and then vote truthfully.

We may be at a natural disadvantage because we cannot utilize The Lie like the SJWs do, but the lay of the land is now such that we can win anyway. With that one hand tied behind our backs. Because the society is now saturated with The Lie. This here is our window of opportunity.

Anonymous dh August 25, 2015 2:46 PM  

Markuu, I really love the way you think. If you are going to be accused of being racist, Nazi's, the least you can do is nominate horrible actual racist Nazi work and then just walk away.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 2:49 PM  

David Gerrold on his facebook page back in April:

his year -- this stuff, this little turd in the punch bowl -- the community will survive it. Whatever happens, the Hugo will survive. With an asterisk, perhaps. (Maybe we'll hand out official asterisks with the trophies this year.)

Blogger Karl August 25, 2015 2:50 PM  

From the same type of people who brought you the Hugo award voting, we present the Republican primaries selection process. Scorched earth is a popular strategy. If you are concerned that Trump will run as third party, why would you ask him to sign a pledge that makes it more likely he would?

Republican leaders in two states reportedly are plotting to make presidential candidate Donald Trump’s quest for the GOP nomination a lot harder.

Party leaders in Virginia and North Carolina told Politico.com that they are considering a push to require candidates entering their respective Republican primaries to pledge their support for the eventual nominee and not run a third-party candidacy — a pledge Trump, the current frontrunner, would not make when asked to during the Fox News debate earlier this month in Cleveland.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 25, 2015 2:50 PM  

@67 Unless you've had your head up your nether parts for the last few decades you'd know that "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover will discourage most SF/F readers from ever looking at the book. Those that claim to love it will have bought it already or be too piss-poor to afford a book budget from their barista wages.

Is he not cruel?

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 2:53 PM  

I chose to ignore you, because your posts prove you don't understand what a boycott is. You continue to prove this.

I bet you think the next best step for the TOR boycott is to buy televsion ads showing how the RPs helped a TOR published book win an award for best novel.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 25, 2015 2:55 PM  

@88 "I chose to ignore you,.."

Yet here you are, posting your ignorance....

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 3:02 PM  

"I chose to ignore you,.... Yet here you are, posting your ignorance...."

All together: SJWs always _________.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 25, 2015 3:02 PM  

@88 TV ads informing the public that pedos and their supporters and protectors approve this book? That's not a bad idea...

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 3:04 PM  

That's the (GOP) ticket! Let's force the guy whose appeal is based on contempt for the establishment sign a written statement of loyalty towards the same. That'll help!

@88 Voxachu, I choose (to ignore) you! Use approved-Boycott tactics!

Voxachu ignores the trainer! Trainer doesn't have enough badges!

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:04 PM  

I chose to ignore you, because your posts prove you don't understand what a boycott is.

You just confessed to a logical fallacy, by the actual definition thereof, rather than what it's commonly and erroneously often understood to be.

"Ad Hominem", Wikipedia:

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments.

People often understand ad hominem to mean an insult, but that's not what it means. It is an insult employed in order to avoid responding to the argument. And by your own confession, that's what you just did.

Blogger Chris Scena August 25, 2015 3:06 PM  

@88

Choose to ignore him somewhere people believe you are anything but a fuckwit.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy August 25, 2015 3:07 PM  

@83: We won't No Award a deserving nominee dishonestly, just to gain a shallow victory.

Even if we expect the trophy to be an asshole again?


@85: David Gerrold on his facebook page back in April:

Please post the archive.is link for that. And if it isn't on archive.is, put it there ASAFP.

Blogger Jack Ward August 25, 2015 3:08 PM  

Went to the rev3.blogspot site mentioned above and found the two postings [so far] relating how to 'kill' VoxDay not amusing so much as interesting.
The writer is obviously well spoken [in print] and seems to have done his/her homework well. I would love to see Vox and this poster lock horns in a protracted debate. Be worth shelling out some money.
I would recco going to that site and reading parts 1 and 2 of the continuing essay on the subject of fight Vox and the Ilk with their own strategies. I'm pretty sure 'they' could not win but what a glorious battle it would be!

http://therev3.blogspot.com/

OpenID jakoye August 25, 2015 3:09 PM  

I was vaguely aware of the SadRabidPuppies/HugoAwards imbroglio over the last year. I read a few articles, sided with the SadPuppies (RabidPuppies seemed too... ahem, radical), then forgot about it.

Unbeknownst to me, WorldCon was happening in my geographical backyard this year (Spokane, WA... I live in the Seattle area) and thus I wasn't there to witness the NoAward travesty that occurred. I'm sort of glad about that because I might have been forced to introduce some of those SJW pigs to the ol' Captain and Tennille!

So now I need to DO SOMETHING. I need to fight those who would make an awards process for a genre I love into a political litmus test. I need to STOP THEM from taking over yet another institution, as they have the colleges (and really all levels of education), the culture, and the media. Thus I realized that SadPuppies sympathy was not enough. Not only do I need to be an active puppy, I need to move to the more aggressive, the more radical, the more EFFECTIVE camp.

I am now a RabidPuppy. Instruct me as you will.

Blogger Stephen Ward August 25, 2015 3:09 PM  

"But aren't you encouraging business for TOR by helping to win an award for one of their books?"

The puppies are saying the book is worth reading. That doesn't mean you have to buy it brand-new. But even if they do buy it brand new, so what? The person doing so is either unaware of the Gallo boycott, or has decided that unprofessional conduct is not a reason to avoid patronage. Either way it is their decision to make.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:11 PM  

Even if we expect the trophy to be an asshole again?

Remember that according to the new rules, there essentially HAS to be an SJW entry in the shortlist. What if we allowed that entry to rise all the way to the top tier, when it's No Award against If You Were an SJW, My Love?

What would be the honest answer?

Anonymous Krul August 25, 2015 3:12 PM  

@88 Travis - "I chose to ignore you, because your posts prove you don't understand what a boycott is."

I chose not to ignore you, because your posts prove you don't understand what integrity is. Or possibly what an award is.

It's a simple concept. An award is for the best, so a man with integrity will vote for and recommend what he believes to be the best, even if the best is published by a company that he is currently boycotting.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 3:13 PM  

"You just confessed to a logical fallacy, by the actual definition thereof, rather than what it's commonly and erroneously often understood to be."

Well, crap . . .

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:16 PM  

The poster had asked why I hadn't replied to their previous posts. Context is hard I know.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz August 25, 2015 3:16 PM  

@70

#Cuckservatives would be a better term.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 3:17 PM  

@95

https://archive.is/H719F

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:18 PM  

The poster had asked why I hadn't replied to their previous posts. Context is hard I know.

No, I pointed out that you specifically asked me a question, that I specifically anwered in a post prior to that. What this tells me is that you had read part of the post, but not the entirety of the post. This usually means that the reader got triggered, and had to protect her oversensitive amygdala by ceasing to read the post.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 3:20 PM  

Remember that according to the new rules, there essentially HAS to be an SJW entry in the shortlist.

Technically, not yet. The new rules have to be approved at next year's con. They will only be 'in effect' by 2017, assuming they pass again.

So while a plan to counter them is all well and good, it is not strictly necessary for RP2.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:25 PM  

Technically, not yet. The new rules have to be approved at next year's con. They will only be 'in effect' by 2017, assuming they pass again.

Fair enough, 2016 will be the last Lulz year. Maybe it will be filled with nothing but John Scalzi as per the original plan. I grant that Kansas may be a bit more cloak and dagger than I would prefer. But that's what makes it unique. If you don't join this year, you will never be part of THAT again.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:25 PM  

Swing and a miss big guy. That was in response to a question from you about why I hadn't read your posts.

Context should be your next Wikipedia search.

Anonymous Krul August 25, 2015 3:27 PM  

Although a man could vote for something other than the best as long as he makes it known that he is doing so and his reasons, but that would not be appropriate here because the whole point of Puppies is to restore the integrity of the Hugo awards. Which means, make sure the award goes to the actual best work irrespective of political considerations.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:29 PM  

I have never specifically asked you a question.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 August 25, 2015 3:30 PM  

@104 Good catch Alexander. It would appear then that Gerrold is behind the asterisk insults. Good to know.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:32 PM  

I see, the rhetorical plural is what you are hanging your argument on, even though in the very next paragraph I identified the post I'm talking about - part of which you obviously read because you responded to it.

Actually, whatever. You can have the rhetorical plural. Let's just say that you have legitimate reasons to ignore the rest of my posts too because I used a plural instead of singular. But the cost of that agreement is that I get to delete your future posts, since you chose the ignoring route. Deal?

(No, I won't delete the post in response to the offered deal)

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 3:33 PM  

The new rules have to be approved at next year's con.

Opportunity. I smell opportunity.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

All that SJW effort to allow the clique to remain as self enriched gatekeepers. We need to make it painful for those rabbits it's there fault

Blogger Jim Rizzi August 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

To Frank Wu:

Burn it all down. We’re done with you.

Jim Butcher was voted below no award. Burn it all down.

Toni Weisskopf was voted below no award. Burn it all down.

Irene Gallo called the works bad-to-reprehensible. Burn it all down.

It was called the Year of the Asterisk. Burn it all down.

Patrick Hayden yelled and cursed at L. Jagi Lamplighter. Burn it all down.

The list goes on. They’ve called us racists without knowing us. They’ve called us misogynists without listening to us. They call us trolls when we disagree, and they somehow think banning us makes them stronger. They’ve called us jackasses, and they’ve called us dipshits, and most of us are standing here because we once tried to talk.

But then we learned.

They are the racist ones. They are the sexist ones. Anyone with clarity can see this. They attack the white, they condemn the male. They applaud their own sly brand of racism, but a racism that is socially acceptable is still not okay. To hell with them, and burn it down.

They speak of privilege. The only privilege that has been at play in the community is the #DiversityPrivilege. The privilege of the liberal, of the liars and the hypocrites and the would-be controllers of expression. So burn it all down.

The faceless rabid don’t make deals. I’m happy to spend good money the rest of my life. Money on fire to burn it all down.

Anonymous kfg August 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

"Nuts"

Will the real Inspector Cramer, please stand up?

Anonymous Statists are so dull August 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

Deliver us us from these petty, petty, "gotcha", "na na na na na", sophists like Travis

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

"But aren't you encouraging business for TOR by helping to win an award for one of their books?"

...

"I have never specifically asked you a question."

Everyone together now: SJWs...

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:37 PM  

Markku,

I see the problem now, and it was my fault. When posting on a phone you can just reply to a comment, and then that response only appears below the post you replied to. I'm now on my tablet and I see that my posts instead were inserted into the steam of regular posts. My bad.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 3:37 PM  

"But aren't *you* encouraging business for TOR by helping to win an award for one of their books?"

*you (pl.)*

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:38 PM  

So, to be clear: You asked that question of Vox? If not, then who?

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:40 PM  

Markku,

I was asking Stephen Ward.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:40 PM  

*you (pl.)*

Thou art a bit unfair with thine linguistic principles, Rabbi B.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy August 25, 2015 3:41 PM  

@104: https://archive.is/H719F

Thanks!


@Markku:

As Alexander pointed out, next year we should still be able to control the entire set of nominees. (Assuming that either the No Award bloc is exposed as a fraud and prevented from nominating, or GamerGate shows up to explain why SJWs should not bear false witness against GG.)

I guess the right approach for next year depends on what side the con committee is on.

Markku, do you know whether the Helsinki convention in 2017 will be run by SJWs?

Blogger RobertT August 25, 2015 3:42 PM  

I'm not going to be fired for attacking a female Tor Books author in public at a professional venue.

Yes, but, will he?

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 3:42 PM  

"Thou art a bit unfair with thine linguistic principles, Rabbi B."

Me thinketh you (s.) mighteth be righteth.

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 25, 2015 3:42 PM  

@22, This guy actually appears to be that rarest of beasts, an honest, intelligent leftist. I suspect if he keeps reading this blog, he will wind up on our side.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 3:45 PM  

@119

You might consider employing the "@ option" to avoid future confusion.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2015 3:45 PM  

Markku, do you know whether the Helsinki convention in 2017 will be run by SJWs?

Absolutely. SJW to the max. I have some limited experience with these people, but even with that I can stake my head on it being SJW-o-rama.

Blogger Travis Landenwitsch August 25, 2015 3:47 PM  

@128

I will, thanks for the advice.

Blogger Alexander August 25, 2015 3:47 PM  

It's interesting. A week after Gerrold, Scalzi references the Hugo with an asterisk - although he is not so gauche as to reveal handing out literal asterisks.

https://archive.is/pogHX

I am curious if one looks through the blogs of all the usual suspects, if from mid-April to May we don't suddenly see a consensus forming around the asterisk-Hugo. Now yes, it's quite a common American phrase when one considers something illegitimate, but it may reveal a path of how the meme spreads, both speed and direction. Who picks it up from who...

Blogger Longstreet August 25, 2015 3:48 PM  

Screaming about "blood libels" at a woman of Jewish descent, Patrick? Really?
Part of me is disgusted at the notion that this happened, and part of me is really hoping it did and that it was recorded. Or witnessed by a reliable many.

Anonymous WinstonWebb August 25, 2015 3:50 PM  

^^^
Scalzi has comments turned off.
How queer.

Blogger IM2L844 August 25, 2015 4:00 PM  

@127
I suspect if he keeps reading this blog, he will wind up on our side.

Since 2008, I've seen that happen more times than I would have ever expected. Only the dangerously obstinate refuse to accept reality.

Blogger Mark Citadel August 25, 2015 4:09 PM  

Everyone is awaiting orders. Even people who were unable to participate this time round due to rules and such, are positioned now to act.

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 25, 2015 4:11 PM  

Armed with acid-filled squirt guns and supported by a crack

What if the media hides this like it does moslem acid attacks on women?

TravisStupid ...in which you all voted first a work published by the company you are boycotting.

Its a good thing leftists are not so stupid as to avoid buying Noah Ward books that Vox highlights. Oh wait.

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2015 4:12 PM  

They aren't even looking the right direction. Here's a hint, guys:

VOX IS CRASHING THE STOCK MARKET WITH NO SURVIVORS WITH MAGIC OTTER MEMES.

Lets see if they can figure it out from there....

Blogger Allan Davis August 25, 2015 4:13 PM  

Hawk @49 -

You No Awarded JCW? Blasphemy!

...yes, I'm kidding.

You read it. You ranked it and voted. "I don't think this story deserved a Hugo because this story --fill in the blank--...no mention of the writer's gender, race, beliefs whatever. No mention of the same for the person who nominated the story. We can debate plot points, or measure the scale of "good," or even agree to disagree.

No, the one true blasphemy is to rank and vote *without reading*. Something some 2500-odd people should know.

-=ad=-

Blogger Unknown August 25, 2015 4:20 PM  

That Frank guy is just blowing smoke. "Agree to no more slate voting........" That was the problem to begin with, except it was hidden slate voting that started Correia's complaint from the beginning. Frank's "solution" is the reason for the conflict in the first place.

Anonymous BGS August 25, 2015 4:20 PM  

They’ve called us racists without knowing us. They’ve called us misogynists without listening to us.

Don't forget homophobes

@22, This guy actually appears to be that rarest of beasts, an honest, intelligent leftist. I suspect if he keeps reading this blog, he will wind up on our side.

He already said he loved Vox, now all you have to do is offer a signed shirtless pic of VD with a bulk purchase of all available Castalia house products.

Blogger Russell (106) August 25, 2015 4:23 PM  

"literally melt the faces" and your hearts!

Blogger Allan Davis August 25, 2015 4:23 PM  

@53 - I totally agree.

"What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

It is the job of the Hugo voter to "seriously consider work." Period. To use that as a bargaining point demonstrates that they don't take the job seriously in the first place.

-=ad=-

Blogger Noah B #120 August 25, 2015 4:32 PM  

Wouldn't it be easiest to just announce that we're having a Gamergate meetup inside of every future Worldcon?

Blogger Cail Corishev August 25, 2015 4:39 PM  

One of you guys hacked Frank Wu's account and posted that as a parody, right? C'mon, fess up.

Attack Manatees

Glad to hear Randi Harper's finding honest work these days.

Blogger Rabbi B August 25, 2015 4:46 PM  

"Don't forget homophobes"

And *cough* . . . neo-Nazis.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 25, 2015 4:47 PM  

Let's assume goodwill on Frank Wu's part.

Why?

Blogger Sad Puppy August 25, 2015 4:50 PM  

@13
I hunger!

---
Hey, is that a reference to Sinistar? +1

Blogger Jeff Weimer August 25, 2015 4:52 PM  

"What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

Piss off. You don't get to *gatekeep* anyone's recommendations, Frank.

Blogger VD August 25, 2015 4:57 PM  

"What if you Puppies gave up block voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering your work for recommendation lists?"

I think the Puppies can seriously consider not bloc voting in exchange for Non-Puppies seriously considering our work.

Anonymous kfg August 25, 2015 5:10 PM  

@146: "Why?"

It highlights his idiocy.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) August 25, 2015 5:11 PM  

That steely look of determination in the otter's eyes has triggered SJW's who come here to spy.

There's an old saying that otters scare SJW's 3 times. The first time is when the SJW sees the otters footprints, the second time is when the SJW hears the otter call, and the 3rd time is when the SJW sees the otter in person.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz August 25, 2015 5:11 PM  

@147

Yes. It definitely liked to Nom me regularly.

Blogger SciVo August 25, 2015 5:14 PM  

NoahB #120: "Wouldn't it be easiest to just announce that we're having a Gamergate meetup inside of every future Worldcon?"

I like the elegant simplicity.

Blogger Civis Silas August 25, 2015 5:17 PM  

Non-puppies are all fine and good as far as considering the Hugos on merit are concerned. Anti-Puppies on the other hand...

Blogger Salt August 25, 2015 5:19 PM  

SJWs always lie. There is nothing to consider.

Blogger SciVo August 25, 2015 5:21 PM  

Hmm. If GamerGate joins in for having its name invoked in vain, and the Puppies control the noms, then I think exactly one piece of politically-correct utter drek per category would let them demonstrate their lies once again, since they would predictably put it above Noah Ward (while we put it beneath), despite it being a Puppy recommendation.

Blogger Blume August 25, 2015 5:26 PM  

Not sure he is the enemy. More like their version of a moderate. Leave him.he shoots at the other side.

Blogger Civis Silas August 25, 2015 5:40 PM  

@157

Yes. He'll soon have to reconcile his requests with the behavior of a large contingent of WorldCon insiders. Or not, in which case he wasn't worth listening to in the first place.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 25, 2015 5:40 PM  

@125

I rather doubt it.

Tom Doherty is an old man and from the rumors I've heard, a sick one.

That, I suspect is the biggest reason that Patrick still has a job. Finding a replacement would be such major pain in the ass, no one wants to do it. Whoever replaces him would have to clean out an SJW nest and then rebuild from scratch. Fun in theory but in practice every one of them who gets fired is going to go shrieking to the SJWsphere.

Only Tom Doherty could do it and he just can't do it.

Tor is clearly a mess but it's mess with major legacy assets. It's creaky but it's not broken.

My suspicion is that MacMillan is waiting for Tom Doherty to keel over and then they will "restructure" Tor/Forge. Removing the crown jewels (Card, Jordan, HALO (etc)) from PNHs purview. Leaving that drama queen with his art house, Scalzi headlining SJW message fic palace for as long as it stays in the black.

But why make PNH's life easier? Send the hard copy letters! Do it today. Just to remind MacMillan that they have an offensively self righteous editor who is making enemies for them right and left.

When all is said and done he is the one that started this whole mess when he turned the Hugos into the Torlock Awards.

Blogger Sad Puppy August 25, 2015 5:50 PM  

I like the otters!

@22
Regarding the plan of the guy that makes VD the Boss Monster.

1 - So he actually thinks a way to defeat Vox is to make him so successful that he doesn't have time to stomp on SJW. Excellent idea!

2 - this point is impossible for an SJW. It's impossible for SJWs to leave others alone. Our very existence triggers them into ridiculous outbursts. If they were capable of any of this, then the entire origin of Sad Puppy's would never have happened! There might be a Dr. Who episode in this concept.

3 - Same as above

4 - Fractures in the puppies? I'm sure it can be smoothed over if Sad Puppies bring the skulls to VD after collecting the PUFF for each.

Regarding Frank Wu, Puppy senses detect antiGG nearby.

Anonymous Steve August 25, 2015 5:52 PM  

Frank Wu and another Wu-man.

Blogger Russell (106) August 25, 2015 5:54 PM  

That's wutarded.

Blogger Chris DeBoe August 25, 2015 6:00 PM  

Re: Wu's offer
Standard leftist tactics: if you win, do everything you can to change the rules so the other side doesn't get a chance to win next time. If you lose, demand the other side compromise.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus #144 August 25, 2015 6:04 PM  

"I would love to see Vox and this poster lock horns in a protracted debate."

Meh, I think that you are letting yourself get carried away simply because you are that unaccustomed to seeing a coherent, cogent line of thought from a putative opponent. For good reason mind you, they are scarce.

The Rev is not bad, his averment of 'bleating' on the part of the Ilk aside, I would only rate him mid-pack relative to the denizens here, let alone Vox.

Anonymous Quintus Maximus August 25, 2015 6:05 PM  

@17

Some pretty damn good comments in that thread. This one from a previously un-affiliated Hugo voter and first time WorldCon attendee. I think this is a good example of 'winning hearts and minds':

I actually went to Sasquan this year. This had nothing to do with the current drama – it’s simply the first time WorldCon has been held in a location I could reasonably travel to, and I wanted to go. I won’t be going to another. I’m not employing hyperbole when I say that many of the people there made my skin crawl (and I go to Cons whenever I can, so this is not ‘those nerds are creepy’). I have never actually seen so many adults, many of them significantly older than me, so openly campaigning for attention for nothing at all like 14 year old girls on facebook, and the reactions to the various panels, and the Hugo announcements themselves, were downright infantile. I have been a liberal for as long as I have had a political identity, and I can’t make common cause with these people anymore. Our causes aren’t common. These smug self-congratulatory nitwits actually ARE thought police, and are reveling in it, and are GLORIFYING acting like children. I don’t understand how adults with their own agency are capable of doing this without any self-awareness, and actually thinking it makes them heroes.

This is the vast majority of your allies (or at least the most vocal and visible portion of them, but that may be giving too much benefit of doubt). They think acting more like children than actual children present at WorldCon is a good thing, so it’s literally an impossibility that they are actually going to employ anything as complex as 4GW tactics to combat their enemies. They are emotional reactionaries focusing on one short-term goal at a time. They may have the determination to fight for a long time (after all, they are combatting evil and oppression!), but they also ensure that their enemies will never lack for motivation to oppose them either. In the long run, this is good for the Rebel Alliance, but is probably a loss for sanity.

Blogger Jason August 25, 2015 6:21 PM  

All of this is important, but what I really want to know is. Where can I sign up to get one of the acid gun armed otters?

Anonymous Steve August 25, 2015 6:30 PM  

Russell - you may think that's Wutarded.

But consider this: Frank Wu won four Hugo awards for his "art".

Stephen Hawking was wrong.

It's bum cancer.

Bum cancer all the way down.

Anonymous Quintus Maximus August 25, 2015 6:32 PM  

He got a hugo for that shit? My 16 year old daughter has more skill.

Anonymous Steve August 25, 2015 6:44 PM  

Quintus - He got a hugo for that shit?

Of course not.

He got four Hugos for this shit.

Anonymous kfg August 25, 2015 6:51 PM  

@168: "My 16 year old daughter has more skill."

She can probably lift more than Scalzi's daughter as well.

Blogger James Dixon August 25, 2015 6:51 PM  

> He got four Hugos for this shit.

I don't know. Those look like pretty good renditions of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards to me.

Blogger Russell (106) August 25, 2015 6:53 PM  

Steve, I have to ask, did you make a pact with dark forces in order to locate these, uh, images so quickly?

But now I understand why the Hugo SJWs thought GG was rolling up to the party. Frank Wu is pretending to be married to Literally Wu whose crappy game got swirled into the corrupt gaming journalists goodthink list and got blasted apart by the GGers. The Wu-sses must have thought the same badthinkens were gunning for his worthless crap.

Wu winning a single Hugo is indicative of how messed up Hugos are. I'm in for next year, I want to see we can get seven No Awards up there.

Burn it down, salt the earth, and feast on their feelhurts!

Anonymous Quintus Maximus August 25, 2015 6:53 PM  

@Steve

This is my 'wtf' face.

I'm not sure I even want part of the huggos (not a typo) anymore. It seems like burning the whole fucker down makes a lot more sense now & might clear out all manner of spoliation. I should know this: I've been following VD for 10+ years, but I think he was right from the outset.

Blogger Joshua Dyal August 25, 2015 6:55 PM  

Wow, consequences may never be the same? A real classic there.

Blogger Russell (106) August 25, 2015 6:58 PM  

@173 Quintus Maximus

"I've been following VD for 10+ years, but I think he was right from the outset."

Shush! We don't want such things to go to His Dark Lord's head! He might show a quantum of benevolence and order VFMs to be beaten only three times for a day, then were would we be?

Blogger Chiva August 25, 2015 6:58 PM  

Burn it down, salt the earth, and feast on their feelhurts!

Good day, sir! I said good day!

Blogger John Morris August 25, 2015 6:58 PM  

Wait! You are right on the mark!

Do not forget the mutant hunting otters in James H Schmitz' "Demon Breed". The most Campbellian of Science Fiction, with the mutant hunting otters ripping apart evil Parahuans on the waterworld Nandy-Cline.

One of the finest hard SF reads ever written.

Blogger Carl Philipp August 25, 2015 6:59 PM  

@149 CLEVER. I salute you.

Re: Frank Wu:
My immediate reaction was, "How stupid does he think we are?" Or does he, like I suspect of Martin, actually believe that's where the Hugos actually come from?

The BEST-case scenario that could come from that is that the CHORFS would "recommend" a couple of the least objectionable Puppy works each year to preserve plausible deniability, while making sure that their followers know not to vote for them. ("Somewhither is OK, not as bad as his other tripe, and if it got the Hugo I'd probably survive, but have you READ Scalzi's latest? That scene where the hermaphroditic protagonist calls the villain Dox Vay a dipshit and the Dark Lord just collapses into tears made my whole year!")

Or they'll just invent some reason to say it sucks. ("He STILL hasn't learned to keep names consistent! The vampires are sometimes called Cruorbibitor and sometimes Kasugallillut, and the villain is either Lord High Starmage or Slaughterbench Dyed-Red for no reason! What a hack!")

Either way, the result will be that Puppy works will never, ever be seriously considered.

You know, EXACTLY WHY SAD PUPPIES GOT STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Blogger JACIII August 25, 2015 7:00 PM  

I'm with Jim Rizzi.

Fuck 'em and feed 'em fish heads.

Anonymous Quintus Maximus August 25, 2015 7:06 PM  

@179

Fuck that. Fish heads make good bait or fertilizer. The Social Justice Bullshitters are not even worthy of that.

Blogger Pseudotsuga August 25, 2015 7:10 PM  

I read a Facebook post last night about dog feces being mailed to "No Awards" recipients.
Is there any actual proof of this, or is this a "faith-promoting rumor" that gets bandied about?

Anonymous Jess August 25, 2015 7:42 PM  

@177 - The Demon Breed is one of my favorite sf novels ever. I would rate it in my top 10 all time; I still have my paperback copy after more than 40 years. If anyone cares to read it, you can get it dirt cheap on Amazon.

Anonymous Huckleberry August 25, 2015 7:49 PM  

mailed to "No Awards" recipients

Mailed to who, precisely?

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan August 25, 2015 7:50 PM  

Ilk:

I dub Steve The Dark Ninja of Mockery.
He has the ability to source lost scrolls, secret files and images not fit for human eyes, like a dark ninja, and use them to vicious Mockery of the enemy. If you agree say so, the tribe must speak.

Anonymous VFM293 August 25, 2015 7:52 PM  

Mmm.... all this talk of SJWs is making me hungry. My teeth desire the feeling of ripping flesh, my ears lust after the pitiful bleating of rabbits. Blood and guts, gore and bones, flesh and fat(lots). O dark lord, blow thine horn, sound thine trumpet, unleash us! Allow us the carnage we desire. (This comment brought to you by Jagermeister)

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan August 25, 2015 7:58 PM  

Ilk:

I dub Steve The Dark Ninja of Mockery.
He has the ability to source lost scrolls, secret files and images not fit for human eyes, like a dark ninja, and use them to vicious Mockery of the enemy. If you agree say so, the tribe must speak.

Anonymous WaterBoy August 25, 2015 8:00 PM  

RE: Frank Wu's "peace offering"

1. You are too late. A peace offering was already proffered to one prominent anti-Puppy, but it was rejected. This does not bode well for acceptance of peace on the part of affiliated anti-Puppies.

2. As far as is known, you are not authorized to negotiate on the part of all other non- or anti-Puppies. What you are proposing, therefore, has no visible backing beyond your own personal opinion...hence of no value.

3. What you are proposing also has no mechanism for enforcement amongst those No Award voters so is also of questionable value. Temporally speaking, this puts the Puppies at the mercy of the SJWs. Furthermore, applying SJW Rule #1 demonstrates the likely outcome of this scenario.

4. Your proposal presumes that block promotion is only deployed on the part of the puppies, but it fails to address the proven promotion on the part of several others in offering your list in place of the puppies. To be fair, your proposal would have to eliminate all competing lists, as well...something that we all know has no chance of success.

If you really wish to make a serious proposal, go back and re-examine your initial assumptions, taking these basic observations into account.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream August 25, 2015 8:13 PM  

@22, that's fantastic. Like Pope never said,

Vox is a monster of such frightful mien
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with his face,
We first abjure, then contend with, then embrace.”

Anonymous Nemo Maximus August 25, 2015 8:15 PM  

I just went for a walk, and honest to God, saw a real live otter in the suburban 'wild'. I take this as a sign. Tomorrow, I shall procure a water gun and a quantity of sulphuric acid, and leave it by the pond as an offering. Good day sir, indeed!

Anonymous zen0 the Ephemeral August 25, 2015 8:17 PM  

@185 GTK

I dub Steve The Dark Ninja of Mockery.

To me he seems more like a combination between the Cheshire Cat and Lucy when she spots the football for Charlie Brown to kick.

For some reason you keep thinking the next link he posts will not make you throw up in your mouth, but you are always wrong.

Anonymous Book_Girl August 25, 2015 8:28 PM  

As a faithful VFM, I serve whenever and/or wherever the Dark Lord sends me. I am not not in the least demoralized. Ready for battle, no matter how long it takes.

P.S. I am currently drinking an Argentinian Malbec. Dreaming of the day it is SJW blood instead....

Anonymous Book_Girl August 25, 2015 8:35 PM  

As a faithful VFM, I serve whenever and/or wherever the Dark Lord sends me. I am not not in the least demoralized. Ready for battle, no matter how long it takes.

P.S. I am currently drinking an Argentinian Malbec. Dreaming of the day it is SJW blood instead....

Anonymous Jabari August 25, 2015 8:44 PM  

OT: SWC just got deleted. They were reposting Vox a bit recently too, but censors gonna censor I guess.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2015 8:56 PM  

That still makes me laugh.

Will it ever get old?... I don't think so.

Blogger Steve Moss August 25, 2015 8:57 PM  

#115- Amen.

This year, I voted my conscience. Worse, my brain was saying vote some of the non-Puppy works below No Award for strategic reasons. I didn't do it. I looked at Vox's and other's recommendations and, regardless, I did what I thought was right and voted nos. 1-5, and avoided No Award in its entirety. I voted as a fan should, not an agenda driven pathetic "trufen" trying to protect their imagined turf.

I won't do that again. I tried reason and I tried understanding (even if we disagreed). I tried honest discussion. At the end, they showed exactly what they are. And if they won't play it straight, it's time to tear it down.

To those who voted Butcher and Weisskopf, etc. below No Award, you are pathetic, miserable, malicious, stupid human beings. I'm sorry for you. Despite my pity, I won't give you an ounce of consideration in the future.

On the issue of slates violating the unspoken conventions of "trufen", that's BS. It was a made up after the fact excuse. Read File 770. It was days, if not longer, before they brought up the issue of unspoken rules (which is in itself a crap argument).

What's more, the Puppy "slate" had no coercive ability. It was a recommendation list. Some voted zealously. Some did not. The only real "slate" was No Award.

I'm not Rabid, but I am pissed. Slate away next year. Please. I'll support you as I would love to stick them once or twice (or more). It will be 100% tactical next year; the time for compassion, debate and understanding has passed.

Anonymous BigGaySteve August 25, 2015 8:58 PM  

@22 I think I found a new sales idea for Castalia House from my post on his blog.

if you purchase everything Castalia house offers at once you get a signed shirtless picture of VD. ...If you want to find gays that don't act like middle school girls & don't want more money taken out of their paychecks going to Latrina's 28 illegitimate crack babies check out gaypatriot.net.

Replies
The RevAugust 25, 2015 at 4:56 PM

I've read a decent amount of gay literature/critical theory, but conservative homosexual stuff is harder to find.

Is said shirtless picture of classic Vox or Sitting on Throne of Skulls Vox?

Anonymous freddie_mac August 25, 2015 9:02 PM  

@159
Macmillan's strategy as you've outlined it makes sense, but they obviously forgot to factor in PNH's self-destructive tendencies. I mean, the moron essentially takes a flamethrower to his employer's reputation on multiple occasions ... Macmillan won't have anything left to overhaul; PNH is destroying it to save it.

Love the otters ... looking forward to progress reports once they've been deployed. "Good day sir. I said, 'good day' " will strike fear in the hearts of SJWs everywhere ...

Blogger John Wright August 25, 2015 9:03 PM  

@47
" but she came back with JCW is a liar"

Obviously she knows nothing of me. Different men are tempted by different sins, so it is no boast for me to say that I have never once felt the slightest impulse to deceive any one. I do not even tell little white lies, nor misreport my income tax, nor tell my boss I am out sick when actually I was just out late. Nothing like that.

A dishonest person simply does not believe honest people exist.

Anonymous zen0 the Ephemeral August 25, 2015 9:11 PM  

@159 CS


Tom Doherty is an old man and from the rumors I've heard, a sick one.

That, I suspect is the biggest reason that Patrick still has a job


Classic power vacuum. In this case, there is another second in command that is a rival to PNH at that level of the command structure, who is looking for an opening to gain advantage.

Of course, my cogent analysis may simply disappear, as I am sometimes considered undesirable. To those who may be able to see this, repeat it somewhere.

zen0 the Ephemeral out.

Anonymous puppyologist August 25, 2015 9:13 PM  

haiku:

manatee shirt wit
none otter than Vox Day on
a throne of bones sweet

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