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Sunday, August 23, 2015

A tale of two interviews

Once again, the Wall Street Journal did a much more equitable job of covering the Hugos than other media outlets as Michael Rapoport followed up his previous article on the nominations with one on the awards:
Authors and fans who have opposed the Puppy campaigns said the results show that the science fiction fans who vote on the Hugos don’t want to see the field’s most prestigious award gamed.

“Good work was rewarded and bad action was penalized,” said novelist John Scalzi. “A small group of people tried to game the awards for their own gain, and a vastly larger group of people who valued the integrity of the awards responded by choosing ‘No Award’ over nominees they felt got on the ballot by gaming the system.”

But Theodore Beale, aka “Vox Day,” the writer and editor who organized the Rabid Puppies slate, characterized the results as a “scorched earth strategy,” and said liberals in science fiction “would rather burn down a historically prestigious award” than let the awards go to Puppy-backed nominees. It “demonstrates the extent to which science fiction has been politicized and degraded by their far left politics,” he said....

“This was the most optimal outcome with what we had to deal with,” said author Kameron Hurley, another critic of the Puppies. “Really proud of the community for rewarding deserving work and passing on so many of the stacked categories.”

But Sarah Hoyt, a Sad Puppies organizer, said the “fury” of the reaction to the Puppies has proven their point. “That is the reaction of a small clique that has engaged in log rolling or years to reward its followers and those they approved of,” she said before the Hugo ceremony.

The Hugo ceremony mostly steered clear of direct references to the controversy, apart from loud applause for some of the announcements of “No Award.” “Please, God, let there be winners,” co-host David Gerrold joked at one point, clutching a bunch of awards envelopes yet to be opened.
 This Wired article attempting to maintain the SJW Narrative concerning the Hugos is mildly amusing for the author's complete inability to keep up and follow the plot. It's an example of Vox's First Law in action, sprinkled with a few factual inaccuracies that appear to result from the writer's attempt to maintain the narrative. But give Amy Wallace credit for at least talking to us:
Based on his voluminous writings, it can be said that Theodore Beale—who writes fiction as a hobby while working as a game designer—openly opposes racial diversity, homosexuality, and women’s suffrage. Beale quibbles with those assertions, as he did with me when I reached him at his home in Northern Italy. For example, he says he doesn’t oppose all women’s suffrage, just women (and most men) voting in a representative democracy, like the one we have, um, in America. The reason: “Women are very, very highly inclined to value security over liberty” and thus are “very, very easy to manipulate.” (He favors direct democracy—and, obviously, men). At one point, he emailed that he would be “very disappointed” if I failed to quote the Wall Street Journal’s label for him: “the most despised man in science fiction.”

A conversation with Beale feels sort of like walking around a room designed by MC Escher. It turns in on itself in unexpected and at times dizzying ways. A sampling: When I asked him why he once called noted fantasy author NK Jemisin an “educated, but ignorant half-savage” on his blog, he said it wasn’t because she is black, then launched into an explication of what he called “new” genetic research that he says he doesn’t expect very many people to understand (but which he claims supports his use of the term “half-savage”).

When I said that he was intentionally baiting a person of color with a word that has racial overtones, he acknowledged, “I’m calling her a half-savage because I know it’s going to offend the crap out of her, because she’s going to run around screaming, ‘Racist! Racist!’ for the next 10 years.”

A beat, and then he added: “I don’t consider all black people to be half-savages. I mean, some people are. Here in Europe, for example, we have actual proper Africans, not African-Americans. This leads to problems, like people shitting on top of the closed toilets. They don’t know how to use indoor plumbing, okay? This is not civilized behavior.”

Torgersen told me something that helped me understand Beale, which is that he believes Vox Day is a character Beale plays—“Performance art, like Andy Kaufman,” Torgersen said. “He embraces this nemesis role that he inhabits. He’s the dark star circling around the outer rim of the solar system. He’s Darth Vader breathing heavily into your phone. He wants people to be enraged and flipping out and tearing their hair and completely losing their minds. And he gets that every single time.”

Beale acknowledged as much: “I love chaos,” he says. “I am generally pretty destructive.”

Given this kind of incendiary rhetoric, it’s possible that the Sad Puppies were at best naïve when they let Beale piggyback on their idea. At worst, they have been accused of providing a politely moderate front for a shit-stirring provocateur. Certainly, both Correia and Torgersen have worked hard to distinguish themselves from Beale.

“Look at it like this,” Correia blogged at one point. “I’m Churchill, Brad is FDR. We wound up on the same side as Stalin.” But when I asked Torgersen whether he felt the Sad Puppies had been tarnished by their association with Beale, he said no. “If he went away, I don’t think it would have changed much. People would have been just as hacked off about Sad Puppies. They just would have found some other reason.”

For his part, Beale—who runs his own small publishing company, Castalia House, which got five of its writers and editors (including Beale himself) on this year’s Hugo ballot—has been outspoken about his goals. “I wanted to leave a big smoking hole where the Hugo Awards were,” he told me before the winners were announced. “All this has ever been is a giant Fuck You—one massive gesture of contempt.” Some nerds just want to watch the world burn.

Going forward, he said, no matter how the Hugo administrators modify the nominating process to try to prevent manipulation (and there are two proposals being considered), he will still have enough supporters to control future awards. Specifically, “I have 390 sworn and numbered vile faceless minions—the hardcore shock troops—who are sworn to mindless and perfect obedience,” he said, acknowledging that his army wasn’t made up solely of sci-fi fans. On the contrary, “the people who are very anti-SJW said, ‘Okay, we want to get in on this.’” When I asked him how he might deploy those people in the future, he continued, “It’s very simple. The dark lord speaks, the minion acts.”
Corrections:
  1. I don't favor direct democracy "and, obviously, men", I favor direct democracy for all native-born adult citizens. Period.
  2. I did not rely upon "genetic research" to justify my use of the term "half-savage" to describe NK Jemisin, I relied upon my Hypothesis of Time to Civilization, which is a combination of history and logic that the writer somehow managed to confuse with science. 
  3. I did not acknowledge the Torgersen's claim of "performance art" but specifically denied it. 
  4. I have 400 Vile Faceless Minions, not 390, and the number is growing daily.
  5. I am not a white male. I am a Red male. 
  6. Castalia House is not mine. I don't own it, I'm just the lead editor. 
  7. GamerGate did not make a "political movement out of threatening with rape any woman who has the temerity to offer an opinion about a videogame."
Notice in particular the juxtaposition between "it can be said" and "quibbles with those assertions". Translation: she said "Isn't it true that...." to which I responded "No." For crying out loud, as I explained to her, ANY support for direct democracy is intrinsically far MORE democratic than playing games about the specific limits on whom is permitted to choose between the two candidates offered by the bifactional ruling party.

My favorite part of the article was this: "But even as Beale claimed victory, John Scalzi, a novelist and three-time Hugo winner who has been among their most outspoken opponents, said the war was over."

SJWs always lie.

You may not like what I say one little bit, but it's hard to argue that I don't tell the truth. Granted, it's only been just over two years as yet, but NK Jemisin is still running around screaming "racist, racist!" You'll note that the writer didn't see fit to quote Jemisin calling Robert Heinlein and "most of SF fandom" "racist as *fuck*". And lest you think I was inventing Europe's indoor plumbing problem, there is a reason you'll now see these signs at the train stations when traveling through Switzerland and Germany.

Labels: ,

123 Comments:

Blogger David-093 August 23, 2015 12:11 PM  

You can tell somebody is experiencing badfeels over a wrongthought by the presence of an "um" or "uh" in an article.

Anonymous MrGreenMan August 23, 2015 12:16 PM  

The funhouse mirror way in which they say everybody should have a nomination, then, of course, not those people we don't like, is like how Planned Parenthood supporters are defending the ghoulish action in their videos because they do some other good things - as if ghoulish infant dismemberment was the price of mammograms in low-income neighborhoods. They do get the appropriate "noble defeat" guy in there - I like the books, but they shouldn't have been nominated. Then there's the very large girl who seemed pleasant enough until she keeps talking - assuming you couldn't possibly have read and judged her writing, but that it must have been some elaborate joke - I can't tell if she's sore from a pig dance or if she is just so incapable of projecting her own limitations that she cannot get outside of her own politics.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 12:16 PM  

hah. yes, the African failure to understand non-nyagen (?) toiletry.

that was one of the more interesting things about Tanzania, throneless toiletry. it's weird to be using a slit trench in porcelain.

Blogger Russell (106) August 23, 2015 12:19 PM  

How did "Locked In" do?

Scalzi was a non-entity for this battle, irrelevant to either side. Oh sure, he's quoted still, but he didn't having a showing on this historical event.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 12:23 PM  

It is amusing to see this comment:

then launched into an explication of what he called “new” genetic research that he says he doesn’t expect very many people to understand (but which he claims supports his use of the term “half-savage”).

Why? Because Science

The old notion that the white skin of Caucasians (whites) was due to the need for Vitamin-D synthesis is falling away, and it is becoming realized that there was a sweep to fixation of genes for white skin. This leads to the question: What was so advantageous about white skin that those genes went to fixation in some populations and haven has a high frequency in some browns?

Perhaps the answer is: when you reduce the developmental energy going into melanocytes you can invest it in neurons

Blogger Michael Maier August 23, 2015 12:34 PM  

I walked into a store men's room once and saw a mess that scarred my mind to this day. That was over 20 years ago. It never made sense to me, until I heard about savages not knowing how to use a Western toilet.

It's cruel to import savages that are not functional into a society. Cruel TO the savages, who know very well their many, many shortcomings and will never be at home in the West.

Blogger Jeff Weimer August 23, 2015 12:57 PM  

Shorter Scalzi: We gamed the awards because we don't like our awards being gamed. We also don't like people other than us stacking categories.

Blogger Rantor August 23, 2015 1:09 PM  

You are truly magnanimous. This VFM would see only native born, male property owners over the age of 21 allowed to vote, with representative government for the mundane and direct democracy for the key and critical.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. August 23, 2015 1:11 PM  

Nein and No.

The chaos spoke of is a recharging, energizing celebration of truth. Chaos can be a tactical controlled version of conversing with liars and SJWLiars.

When chaos surrounds me, I laugh. When I walk into a darkness I feel no fear, I know my paths well and I move forward.

For some here, while local/offline family hurts me. I take their hate and vile mistreatment as a energizing force for greatness.

The more distractions and distractions Vox is handed he merely objectively corrects them, again and again and again. SJW's lie and McScaRaRa framed the issue like swiss cheese.

It is non of anyone's business where anyone lives or who owns what of CH.

Finland's media will respond and PR this matter since it concerns our dearest Finn.

Why are we not privy to where Torg or man in the dress live?

We dont care, I dont care. We have zero interest in harm or henhousing, I am about the truth and promoting the higher better values/quality work that CH, Hoyt, Crevald, Wright, Correia, even Um Eco offer.

That is my interest.

It is good that WSJ and Wired covered it even though Wired had a differing spin.

What divides us from others are differing goals, beliefs and intel. However, no one here is interested in group identity politics, liars are fricking liars.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. August 23, 2015 1:16 PM  

Edit: distractions and distortions.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 1:31 PM  

And lest you think I was inventing Europe's indoor plumbing problem, there is a reason you'll now see these signs at the train stations when traveling through Switzerland and Germany.

These signs aren't supposed to warn people against "shitting on top of closed toilets". They're to warn against people who can't shit sitting, having been used to shitting while squatting.

Blogger VD August 23, 2015 1:33 PM  

These signs aren't supposed to warn people against "shitting on top of closed toilets".

Whether they are supposed to or not, that's the biggest problem.

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2015 1:33 PM  

>>Chinese have been "civilized" for much longer than any whites/Europeans. How does this mesh with the "hypothesis"?

Socialism and communism de-civilize anyone.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 1:36 PM  

@12

I used to work in the same building as a number of recent Chinese immigrants. The women's restrooms had similar issues, most commonly shoe prints in various places. Evidence also demonstrated different nose-clearing practices. Chinese have been "civilized" for much longer than any whites/Europeans. How does this mesh with the "hypothesis"?

China's always been dirty and full of squalor. The weird thing is, they have indeed adapted to civilization, only in their own unique way. For example, children in mainland China aren't given diapers, but instead a hole in their pants so that they can shit directly out of it. This usually results in them shitting on sidewalks, roads, so that a typical Chinese city smells of shit. But when I questioned my affluent Chinese friend about how disgusting this practice is, he instead argued that storing shit in a diaper is much more disgusting, as you're literally asking your child to wallow in shit for a few hours before you change that diaper. So you're sacrificing public hygiene for private hygiene. It has its own weird logic.

Anonymous clk August 23, 2015 1:37 PM  

The signs VD is referring are not because people as defecating on the closed top cover of the toilet for lack of civilization or knowledge of indoor plumbing ....its there because some people are using a squatting position on sitting toilets. This presents a safety hazard as some squatters have slipped and fell off the traditional toilets. Its has been shown in many studies that the squatting position is better than sitting.

It is a African and Asian thing to start but some modern Europeans and Americans (mostly Californians :) ) have adopted this ...American Indians also well known used a squatting position to defecate until the evil white man came and forced on them to a sitting position ...

Have none of you seen the "Squatty Potty Toilet Stool" ...

You cant make this stuff up...

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 1:40 PM  

Scalzi was a non-entity for this battle, irrelevant to either side. Oh sure, he's quoted still, but he didn't having a showing on this historical event.

I'll wager that he never will get another nomination.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 1:40 PM  

@15

Socialism and communism de-civilize anyone.

There is also some truth to this. I read an argument that the Cultural Revolution and communism basically wiped China's middle and upper-class culture, leaving working class people to fill the void. Imagine if all middle-class white people were killed or displaced and only working-class and lower-class white trash was left. In time, some of these would rise up to become middle class again, but they would bring their old white trash culture with them.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 1:43 PM  

Another thing I've never understood in Western culture is using dry toilet paper to clean your ass after shitting. This is somehow considered "civilized" to the Asian practice of using a hose near the toilet to spray your ass, which is much more logical. Would you want to use plates which were only cleaned by wiping them, instead of washed in soap and water?

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 1:43 PM  

Other Robot, white people have melanocytes and produce melanin. We're not (all) albino.

Yes, but I said reduce, not eliminate.

Blogger VD August 23, 2015 1:44 PM  

The signs VD is referring are not because people as defecating on the closed top cover of the toilet for lack of civilization or knowledge of indoor plumbing ....its there because some people are using a squatting position on sitting toilets.

Yeah, they are, CLK. They most definitely are. I've also seen them get out of the car and take more than 5 minutes to figure out a roundabout, then promptly DRIVE THE WRONG WAY on it and just narrowly avoid causing a head-on collision.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 1:47 PM  

But when I questioned my affluent Chinese friend about how disgusting this practice is, he instead argued that storing shit in a diaper is much more disgusting, as you're literally asking your child to wallow in shit for a few hours before you change that diaper. So you're sacrificing public hygiene for private hygiene. It has its own weird logic.

Of course, if you use cloth daipers you encourage them to control their excretory urges sooner.

Maybe that is why so many SJWs have verbal diarrhea and an inability to think in a controlled manner.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 1:51 PM  

17. clk August 23, 2015 1:37 PM
.its there because some people are using a squatting position on sitting toilets. This presents a safety hazard as some squatters have slipped and fell off the traditional toilets. Its has been shown in many studies that the squatting position is better than sitting.



absolute, unmitigated bullshit.

have you ever experienced a slit trench IN PUBLIC USE?

do you have ANY conception of HOW MUCH waste DOES NOT make it into the slit? all it takes is one fart, a little diarrhea or a woman trying to urinate. now you're walking around with piss and shit all over your feet. and in Africa this often means BARE feet.

the whole point of putting your ass directly on the seat is so that you don't have any "misfires". and even then, that doesn't work all the time.

the other thing is this:
it's EXTREMELY inconsiderate of other users to stand on the seat. even if they manage to get everything in the bowl, once the first person has grunged up the seat with their feet/feat pretty much everybody else has to follow suit ... or they can wear little footy prints on the back of their thighs.

Blogger Calvin Dodge August 23, 2015 1:52 PM  

Pardon me if this was posted to another thread - it's the Hugo Downfall video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOWipBL0gM

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 1:53 PM  

Physo, the Chinese haven't "adapted to civilization," they invented it.

I don't agree with this claim. Civilization, ie, large collections of people, arose simultaneously in two or three parts of the world, it seems.

However, it does seem that the Chinese have been building larger collections of people than others have.

Blogger automatthew August 23, 2015 1:53 PM  

Pick a name, Anonymous.

Anonymous JCB August 23, 2015 1:56 PM  

@20

I've been in these Asian bathrooms you speak of, and let me tell you, there is nothing more civilized than walking around in puddles of shit stained water on the floor. It's like the cholera wrapping its arms around you in a big embrace. The real reason many places don't use TP is the plumbing can't handle it. And I personally don't eat ass. In fairness, perhaps you do.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 1:56 PM  

@23
Of course, if you use cloth daipers you encourage them to control their excretory urges sooner.

My friend also added that by having a hole in their pants instead of any form of diaper, Chinese kids learn early enough to tell their parents when they want to shit or pee, so that their parents can stop and dangle them over a trashcan or road before going about their business - a form of early potty training. Diapers, on the other hand, give license to the child to shit any time they want.

In any case, if anyone is still wondering why the Chinese are still dirty even though they've been civilized for much longer than whites - remember that the idea of public hygiene is something that's only come about in the last 200 years or so, thanks to the germ theory of disease, which was a Western discovery. Back in London in the 1700s people were still regularly throwing shit out the window.

Anonymous physphilmusic August 23, 2015 2:04 PM  

I don't agree with this claim. Civilization, ie, large collections of people, arose simultaneously in two or three parts of the world, it seems.


Civilization basically arises in any agrarian society. Agrarian society only allows people who are capable of forethought and pre-planning to succeed. You plant crops today and only harvest them a few months later. In contrast, hunter-gatherer societies only require a few days of pre-planning. Agrarian society itself seems to arise whenever you have fertile, arable land. Sub-saharan Africa, unfortunately (AFAIK), isn't such a place.

@29
I've been in these Asian bathrooms you speak of, and let me tell you, there is nothing more civilized than walking around in puddles of shit stained water on the floor.

That's a different general hygiene problem, equivalent to people leaving shit-stained toilet paper all around the toilet. The correct way of using a hose to clean your ass is of course to do it while sitting or squatting on the toilet, allowing the shit-stained water to go into the drain like everything else (ideally, you'd have automatic bidets like the ones in Japanese toilets).

Blogger Franz Lyon Hart August 23, 2015 2:13 PM  

In Vox's Hypothesis about Time to Civilisation, surely France is ahead of Africa, but alas it's behind the Germanic countries of Middle Europe/ Scandinavia. Because when you go kaka, they make you stand up!


(*In fairness ... only until the 1980ies ca.; since then these old style French slit toilets broadly vanished. Although... you'll occasionally find these still in some public motorway restrooms.)

Anonymous Wyrd August 23, 2015 2:18 PM  

5.I am not a white male. I am a Red male.

The purple piper plays his tune,
The choir softly sing;
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue,
For the court of the crimson king.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_MSK_zt-nM

Anonymous clk August 23, 2015 2:21 PM  

@25 ... Bob... you should read what I write before you reply ..you waste your limited time arguing a point I didn't make.

1) I was pointing out that the meaning of this sign is that this toilet is design for use in a sitting position, not a squatting position ... in this matter I am completely correct. Its doesn't mean there isn't a problem in Europe with people shitting on the floor in public restrooms --... I just pointed out what this particular sign means ... maybe they need a better sign that better explains to immigrants where to shit and not to shit .. IDK and IDC

2) There have been many studies, articles etc about the advantages of a squatting position over a sitting position for medical reasons ... I will not list a bunch of links .. if this subject interests you do your own research.

3) Nothing did I say was a support of slit toilets in 3rd world countries or people squatting on public toilets designed for sitting... I avoid both when ever possible .. which is always....

So relax ....




Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 2:24 PM  

“Good work was rewarded and bad action was penalized,” said novelist John Scalzi. “A small group of people tried to game the awards for their own gain, and a vastly larger group of people who valued the integrity of the awards responded by choosing ‘No Award’ over nominees they felt got on the ballot by gaming the system.”

How does Scalzi get this nonsense out of his mouth with a straight face?

Anonymous Luke August 23, 2015 2:34 PM  

Vox, you said:
" I favor direct democracy for all native-born adult citizens. Period."

I did not expect this, based upon the voluminous, apparently formidable evidence I have read on this forum about the general poor voting competence women have. So you favor even unmarried mother women voting?
I certainly oppose this.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 2:42 PM  

34. clk August 23, 2015 2:21 PM
3) Nothing did I say was a support of slit toilets in 3rd world countries



IF you don't understand why Africans are standing on the toilet in the first place ( they have always previously used slit toilets )

THEN you have no business commenting on the problem.


34. clk August 23, 2015 2:21 PM
There have been many studies, articles etc about the advantages of a squatting position over a sitting position for medical reasons



and how many of those studies address the public health / communicable disease issues vs ease of bowel movement?

because i tell you what, reducing TB and Cholera to virtually zero is a pretty damn good trade off for a couple of people needing to watch their diet to make sure they get enough fiber and don't eat too much cheese.

Anonymous shadow #0342 August 23, 2015 2:45 PM  

@Harsh:

'Good' has a subjective definition.

For normal people, it would mean a worthwhile piece of literature.

For Scalzi et al, it means a story about LGQT transabled jellyfish.

So it all depends the hijacking of language.

Blogger buwaya puti August 23, 2015 2:46 PM  

Unfortunately off topic, so I apologize -
It seems to me that the influence of Castalia as a publisher would be helped if it carried a larger list. How about selling on e-format a larger range of backlists? And not just for big names like Pournelle. I am not sure what the economics of this are, so this is probably a foolish suggestion.
Many writers have backlists that don't move much. I see Baen carries a lot. You seem to have a good setup as a publicist, with a high traffic site that you promote so effectivelt, a backlist here is more likely to move than a dead list elsewhere.
Politically it would also put more writers on side.
And then there is a possible role as a self publishing facilitator. There is the automatic advantage over self publishing, as anything here has a built in notoriety for the initial push.
Eh, just thinking out loud.

Blogger buwaya puti August 23, 2015 2:48 PM  

Unfortunately off topic, so I apologize -
It seems to me that the influence of Castalia as a publisher would be helped if it carried a larger list. How about selling on e-format a larger range of backlists? And not just for big names like Pournelle. I am not sure what the economics of this are, so this is probably a foolish suggestion.
Many writers have backlists that don't move much. I see Baen carries a lot. You seem to have a good setup as a publicist, with a high traffic site that you promote so effectivelt, a backlist here is more likely to move than a dead list elsewhere.
Politically it would also put more writers on side.
And then there is a possible role as a self publishing facilitator. There is the automatic advantage over self publishing, as anything here has a built in notoriety for the initial push.
Eh, just thinking out loud.

Blogger ScuzzaMan August 23, 2015 2:49 PM  

Those train signs are racist as fuck.

Blogger Noah B #120 August 23, 2015 2:52 PM  

If they don't know that the shit goes in the toilet, does anyone really expect them to know what the red X's and green check marks mean?

Anonymous Bz August 23, 2015 2:58 PM  

"... John Scalzi, a novelist and three-time Hugo winner who has been among their most outspoken opponents, said the war was over."

Heh, this cries out for a 'Mission Accomplished' photoshop.

Blogger Eraser August 23, 2015 3:03 PM  

The toilet signs are there because there are people - mostly women - who don't want to touch a public toilet with bare skin due to ickiness. They step on the seat to do their business and leave dirty footprints for the next user.

I've never heard that people shitting on closed toilet lids is a problem in Europe. Someone might do it out of that same feeling of spite that makes one spray paint a building, but I doubt it would be because he doesn't know what a toilet is.

Anonymous No anonymous postings August 23, 2015 3:13 PM  

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. Anonymous comments will be deleted.

Blogger Franz Lyon Hart August 23, 2015 3:14 PM  

does anyone really expect them to know what the red X's and green check marks mean?

That also hit me when I saw these. Well spotted +1.

Blogger Groot August 23, 2015 3:26 PM  

Ah, now we come the Shit thread.

@35. Harsh:
"How does Scalzi get this nonsense out of his mouth with a straight face?"

Maybe he should have a hose by his face for whenever he speaks.

Anonymous Godfrey August 23, 2015 3:27 PM  

The war is never over.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 3:30 PM  

The Great Toilet Debate of 2015 is proceeding nicely, I see.

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 3:54 PM  

Nobody can polish this turd

Anonymous a_peraspera August 23, 2015 4:14 PM  

Bottom line: The Mean Girls of the Hugos showed they are so immature and petty, that if one of their "in-crowd" buddies isn't going to win the award, then they will simply not give out the award at all. Kind of exposes them for what they are.

Anonymous Toilet guy August 23, 2015 4:15 PM  

If you have ever had to clean female toilets for a living you know how nasty they are.

Women are paranoid about toilet germs so they heist their butts above the seats and let fly --- which makes an even bigger mess for the subsequent women attempting to use the toilet.

Attempts to mitigate this female hygiene problem include providing paper toilet seat liners (ie little paper donuts) that girls can place on the toilet seat to protect their cute little bottoms from evil germs.

It is a losing battle, however. Even when you provide the dispensers they don't use them and still pee all over the place.

If you ever wondered why your mom and sister were so fanatic about "clean toilets" when traveling on the interstate, this is why. Girls make a filthy mess. Standing on the seat, peeing from high altitude, etc.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 4:25 PM  

If you have ever had to clean female toilets for a living you know how nasty they are.

Someone once told me a story about a college female who found out that guys don't wash their, ahhh, intromittent organ after urinating.

Seems she was so disgusted she refused to have sex with him after that.

I guess that is what is known as a first-world problem.

Blogger Sean Carnegie August 23, 2015 4:59 PM  

I was in Guangzhou in February 2010 or 2011 and was amazed by the lack of personal hygiene evident in public. First time I had ever used a "slit trench in porcelain" squat toilet in my life. Also, there is no TP in the stalls and I had forgotten any Kleenex that one is always supposed to have in one's pocket whilst in China. So... used a 1 yuan note and wiped with Mao's face. Strangely empowering...

I wish I had my pictures from the trip on this computer. The Asian Games were scheduled to be held in GZ shortly after my departure. Believe it or not, there were signs around GZ showing proper public behaviour; using Kleenex to blow one's nose, etc. I took a picture of it just to tell myself in the future I wasn't imagining it. Now to find it...

Anonymous Reader August 23, 2015 5:35 PM  

VP, the best blog on the planet.

Blogger Nathan Hall August 23, 2015 5:42 PM  

“I wanted to leave a big smoking hole where the Hugo Awards were,” he told me before the winners were announced. “All this has ever been is a giant Fuck You—one massive gesture of contempt.”

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.

Anonymous Statists are so dull August 23, 2015 5:43 PM  

Took my six year old to his friend's birthday party. One of the kids was North African and I heard him asking the host's mother where the water was after he'd been to the toilet. At first she thought he was asking where to wash his hands but she eventually understood that he wanted a bowl of water to wipe his ass with. She ended up explaining what toilet paper is to him.

This is a six year old in a EU country who has never experienced toilet paper! It's not funny (the medieval toilet habits must have been accommodated at school). European hegemony was based on keeping the poop out of the food.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 5:56 PM  

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.

Patience, pathetic little SJW. 冰凍三尺非一日之寒.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 6:02 PM  

The SJWs need to take this message to heart: Fuck Feelings

Anonymous Reader August 23, 2015 6:10 PM  

@51 Don't know why it's a problem for many. When I use a toilet outside of home, I always put toilet paper, about 2 layers, on the seat , before sitting on it.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. August 23, 2015 6:14 PM  

Edit: replace Hoyt with VD.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 6:15 PM  

53. Sean Carnegie August 23, 2015 4:59 PM
Also, there is no TP in the stalls



wow. even Africa is more civilized than that.

and that was 20 years ago.



55. Nathan Hall August 23, 2015 5:42 PM
AND YOU FAILED!



Vox's choice for best novel winning is failure?

and hey, i know you dumbfucks have significant cognition problems ... but we were EXPLICITLY NOT voting 'No Award' this year.

the four 'No Awards' that got handed out were due to YOUR side.

bravo, dumbshit.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 6:17 PM  

59. Reader August 23, 2015 6:10 PM
When I use a toilet outside of home, I always put toilet paper, about 2 layers, on the seat , before sitting on it.




shhhhhh.

that's an intelligence test.

if they can't figure that out on their own, they deserve to have diseased asses.

Blogger Danby August 23, 2015 6:21 PM  

“I wanted to leave a big smoking hole where the Hugo Awards were,”
AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.


Look, Sport, you're really not getting this.
Tell me, who won the Best Novella Hugo last night?
Yeah, that smoking hole over there? Didn't there used to be Hugos there?

That he got you to convince each other to do it to yourselves, and then declare victory, is even funnier.

Anonymous Borderline Anonymous August 23, 2015 6:40 PM  

If you have ever had to clean female toilets for a living you know how nasty they are.

As a bartender I did that. Once. After that it was the barmaid's job. Not mine.

How much better it would have been to threaten to clean the women's crapper, only to have the barmaids all crowd into me shouting "No! It's all ours! You can't have it!". I wasn't good enough a strategist to make that happen. Vox could have. No doubt. Worldcon proves it.

The shoggoths and landwhales of the SFWA and TruFanDum have finished hovering over the Hugos for now. "Why does it stink in here so bad?" they scream. Heh. Wait till next year, losers. Wait till next year.

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 6:51 PM  

Thank you Bob K. & Danby for ripping lil' SJWs apart 24/7

Blogger VD August 23, 2015 7:03 PM  

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.

As we only got five out of 16, I shall go and cry now.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 7:43 PM  

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.

No, we're not going away. We'll be back next year and in greater numbers. This battle has ended but the war is just beginning.

And this is a fun war.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 7:45 PM  

I just wanted a quick clarification and got only Ew! Poor countries are icky! from you princesses.

You're confusing us with Scalzi. I believe he even has the tiara. Now go away, little worm.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 8:19 PM  

I've managed a squat toilet in heels and a silk.dress without a second thought.

Well, aren't you a clever thing then. Do you do any other tricks?

Anonymous zen0 August 23, 2015 8:25 PM  

@56 Nathan Hall

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.

Do you, dear little Nathan, what a beachhead is? Maybe you should look it up.

Maybe ask The Google "establishing a beachhead".

I think you can.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 8:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 8:35 PM  

Shut up, Tad.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 8:35 PM  

And I lived in Tokyo for two years. It ain't that clean.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 8:49 PM  

No, Bob. Tokyo is not in China. But, like many, many places, squat toilets are common there, too.

I would be happy if all those people desperately trying to get into Europe and the US would all go to those places with Squat toilets if they are so pleasant.

I wonder why they aren't.

Ohhh, I get it. You are using shaming language.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 8:52 PM  

Dresses and heels are a social construct.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 9:00 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 9:01 PM  

Lady, you're missing the point. Not surprising because you're obviously an idiot and your grandad was probably a closet fag.

Now shut the fuck up and let the men talk.

Anonymous Tar Heel (VFM#0245) August 23, 2015 9:02 PM  

I think the discussion of proper toilet use can cease now. SJW trolls fling enough excrement without us speaking about it at length.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 23, 2015 9:02 PM  

@34 "here have been many studies, articles etc about the advantages of a squatting position over a sitting position for medical reasons .."

They're not shitting on the cover for medical reasons. It is out of their backward ignorance, not some medical breakthrough their tribe recently discovered before us white people.

I was wondering when someone would chime in with the "you're doing it wrong, the Africans do it right" crap I've been seeing posted all over FB. Now I know why.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 23, 2015 9:05 PM  

@67 "As we only got five out of 16, I shall go and cry now."

Now now, I'm sure a purple umbrella drink will make it all feel better. Have 2 or 3 just to make sure.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 9:08 PM  

I think the discussion of proper toilet use can cease now. SJW trolls fling enough excrement without us speaking about it at length

Amen

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 9:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger bob k. mando August 23, 2015 9:17 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 9:26 PM  

I think the discussion of proper toilet use can cease now. SJW trolls fling enough excrement without us speaking about it at length

Not so. One of the important things that has been done in the west it to improve public health and reduce the burden on all of us caused by unhygienic practices.

However, now we are threatened by a real increase in that public health burden again from hordes of illegal immigrants with lots of unhygienic practices like squatting on toilets and making a mess everywhere as well as spitting in public and further spreading their novel diseases etc.

And then the SJWs want to distract to conversation to: Look at me, I am smart because I can squat and shit like a half-savage.

Anonymous Mr. A is Mr. A August 23, 2015 9:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Jack Ward August 23, 2015 9:48 PM  

Anyone tell me how to import a jpeg into a comment window on Blogger? If you know I have a funny photo to go with the how to crap sign uppage. No, its not an obscene photo. And, I don't have the link [otherwise it would be easy]
Thanks...



Anonymous zen0 the Ephemeral August 23, 2015 9:59 PM  

Don't respond to trolls

I, zen0 the Ephemeral adjure you.

Pay attention. I don't know how long this text will exist.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 10:02 PM  

CLK: The signs VD is referring are not because people as defecating on the closed top cover of the toilet ...

VOX: Yeah, they are, CLK. They most definitely are.


A person I know who hates Macs once fixed a printing problem with a Mac that even IT could not fix. That person simply switched the printer on.

Anonymous Mr.A is Mr.A August 23, 2015 10:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 10:10 PM  

The problem is not just half savages pooping on toilet lids in Europe, it is also half savages with guns who want to kill Europeans.

These are the wonders that unrestricted illegal immigration bring us, along with their unhygienic practices and their exotic diseases.

And, as Vox points out, it takes 700 to 1,000 years to improve them because truncation selection takes that long, because Science and Genetics.

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 10:16 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 10:19 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger SciVo August 23, 2015 10:25 PM  

Harsh @35: "How does Scalzi get this nonsense out of his mouth with a straight face?"

By actually talking out of a different orifice.

Anonymous The other robot August 23, 2015 10:31 PM  

Vox's tIme to civilization theory has been discussed in many previous threads if you would take 2 seconds to search the blog.

There is a wealth of evidence and papers on civilizing (or domestication) recently, pointing to potential genetic mechanisms.

However, perhaps the most effective method is removal of the half-savages and their genes from the gene pool and we can calculate how long it takes and it is remarkably close to Vox's numbers.

In some sense, Kratman's support of crucifixion is well founded.

Anonymous Mr.A is Mr.A August 23, 2015 10:35 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Jim Milo August 23, 2015 10:37 PM  

@50
The Mean Girls of the Hugos showed they are so immature and petty, that if one of their "in-crowd" buddies isn't going to win the award, then they will simply not give out the award at all.

In other words, if I can't have you, no one can.

I think Anita Sarkeesian would call that trope problematic. But ends justify means to the SJW.

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 10:41 PM  

"Future Mrs.A " my, my

The regulars here don't always have the best bedside manner but few places on the web are as intriguing and thought provoking if you're willing to give it a chance.

Anonymous Mr.A is Mr.A August 23, 2015 11:27 PM  

Now reviewing the rules and awaiting Malwyn, Supreme Dark Lord.

Blogger Harsh August 23, 2015 11:29 PM  

Don't respond to trolls

I am guilty. Mea culpa.

Blogger automatthew August 23, 2015 11:36 PM  

If you would learn discipline, begin with this simple exercise. Before you type even the first character into the comment box, ask yourself: "Who am I trying to impress?"

Anonymous Dave August 23, 2015 11:54 PM  

You're the man with the hammer automatthew however your post is somewhat bizarre on a thread where half of the posts are discussing how to take a shit in or on a toilet. Now I wonder who those posts were meant to impress

Anonymous Mr.A is Mr.A August 24, 2015 12:02 AM  

@99. Dave
Sensei automatthew is wise. Too much Hugo excitement; too much anticipation of what is to come -- makes one forget, as I did.

I am chastened, and I have been given wisdom.

Enough for tonight -- returning to lurking and waiting for what comes next.

Blogger automatthew August 24, 2015 12:10 AM  

Now I wonder who those posts were meant to impress

Sometimes the answer to the question I asked is, "No one". A second question is then useful. "What do I desire to achieve?"

Blogger bob k. mando August 24, 2015 12:11 AM  

98. automatthew August 23, 2015 11:36 PM
Before you type even the first character into the comment box, ask yourself: "Who am I trying to impress?"



Porky? the subject matter seems like something that would intrigue him.

Blogger automatthew August 24, 2015 12:16 AM  

the man with the hammer

Just to be clear, I and the other moderators act under very strict rules of engagement provided by the Dark Lord. My personal opinions of commenters are never in play.

Blogger automatthew August 24, 2015 12:17 AM  

Porky? the subject matter seems like something that would intrigue him.

And yet he is strangely absent from this discourse.

Blogger Carl Philipp August 24, 2015 12:20 AM  

@84 Jack Ward
Create a photobucket account, upload to there, post the link.

Blogger bob k. mando August 24, 2015 12:20 AM  

101. automatthew August 24, 2015 12:10 AM
"What do I desire to achieve?"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc&feature=youtu.be&t=55s


the problem with associating with pyromaniacs is that they sometimes forget that it's just the Hugos that you're trying to collect insurance money on.


84. Jack Ward August 23, 2015 9:48 PM
Anyone tell me how to import a jpeg into a comment window on Blogger? ... And, I don't have the link [otherwise it would be easy]



1 - open a free photobucket ( or similar ) account
2 - upload pic to your account ( whether from your local hard drive or elsewhere on the net makes no difference )
3 - use provided webserver link and copy / paste to your post

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f125/bobkmando/EMzJ1_zpslb1fkxad.jpg~original

Blogger automatthew August 24, 2015 12:37 AM  

Dear bob,

I think you've taken my comment beyond its intended scope.

Sincerely,

Hammerhands

Anonymous Dave August 24, 2015 12:43 AM  

"Just to be clear, I and the other moderators act under very strict rules of engagement provided by the Dark Lord. My personal opinions of commenters are never in play."

That's been my observation as well for all the moderators here. Use of the term "hammer" did suggest negativity that was not intended

The lines re Porky were good for a laugh though

Blogger bob k. mando August 24, 2015 12:58 AM  

you think i'm going to limit myself to your intended scope?

you're so cute.

Blogger automatthew August 24, 2015 1:09 AM  

Authorial intent means nothing to you? You ... you ... postmodernist.

I hope you enjoy Derrida's company in hell.

Anonymous Rolf August 24, 2015 1:26 AM  

For what it's worth, I sat down with Amy Wallace, the Wired article writer, for something like 20 minutes at the convention center. She had her recorder. I also had mine. I clearly and briefly laid out the history of things. I note she chose not to quote me or correctly use anything I said.

I also sat down with a pair of reporters (forget offhand where from) and another interviewer working on a documentary, describing tech and SF and the rabid puppies and views on accusation of racism, etc. He had his camera running, I had my digital voice recorder.

Always bring your own recorder.

Anonymous Dave August 24, 2015 1:53 AM  

Knowing what we now know that Wallace is a media whore would you still give her 20 minutes of your time and will you release your recording or provide a transcript?

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit August 24, 2015 2:18 AM  

Scalzi was a non-entity for this battle, irrelevant to either side. Oh sure, he's quoted still, but he didn't having a showing on this historical event.

Hah. Did I nail it? Yes: http://tempestinateardrop.wordpress.com/characters/

Nice seeing you at worldcon, Rolf.

NB: I highly recommend Toilets of the World - great bathroom reading:http://www.amazon.com/Toilets-World-Morna-E-Gregory/dp/1858944996

Blogger Linh Pham August 24, 2015 3:13 AM  

this too long I can read all ^_^

--------
nha pho dep | nha dep | do choi sieu cao cap | biet thu vuon |

Anonymous Discard August 24, 2015 4:07 AM  

I was once made to clean the officer's shitter. When finished, I pissed in a sink. I imagine that the Africans might crap on the lid out of spite too.

Sorry, Colonel Kratman.

Blogger Dago August 24, 2015 4:32 AM  

+1

Blogger VD August 24, 2015 5:29 AM  

Knowing what we now know that Wallace is a media whore would you still give her 20 minutes of your time and will you release your recording or provide a transcript?

No. Perhaps, but probably not as I don't have the time and it's trivial anyhow. I did put her idiotic quote about GamerGate in the new book, though.

Blogger John Wright August 24, 2015 5:40 AM  

冰凍三尺非一日之寒

/To freeze the water three feet deep take more than one cold day/

Slow clap. You swatted a troll on the nose with a rolled up newspaper of a haiku that is poetical, poignant and profound.

It is like Cyrano reciting a poem before he skewers them with his pigsticker.

Bravo.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 24, 2015 8:30 AM  

I note she chose not to quote me or correctly use anything I said.

I've been interviewed twice, both times by local media for local-interest stuff, nothing at all controversial. Both times I was misquoted, paraphrased at best. Others I know report the same thing.

So when I see words in quotes in articles, I don't assume the person said them. I assume they're what the reporter heard the subject saying, or wanted the subject to have said.

But if I'd never been interviewed myself, I'd probably still believe that "quote" means "quote," as in, "this is exactly what he said."

Anonymous BGS August 24, 2015 2:07 PM  

Perhaps they will be getting such signs in Obama's EPA

Blogger SirHamster (#201) August 24, 2015 2:32 PM  

AND YOU FAILED! Your Sad and Rabid Puppies were beat back like the sad little unwanted dogs you are.
----------------
As we only got five out of 16, I shall go and cry now.


Without even trying. As moms say, if only you would apply yourself ...

Anonymous balrog666 August 24, 2015 5:46 PM  

Given the nature of this discussion, I offer a link to writer Robert "Mil" Millington's classic pages of Lavatories of the World.

http://www.mil-millington.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/lavvy.htm

:)

Blogger JohnG August 25, 2015 1:15 PM  

The sign is common anywhere we're deployed and have local (Arabs or Afghans) nationals on the same bases. Welcome to the third world, coming to a bathroom near you soon!

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