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Tuesday, September 08, 2015

Interview with Vox Day

Greg Johnson of Counter-Currents interviewed me last night. The MP3 is available there of our discussion, which he summarized as follows:
Greg Johnson talks to video game designer, musician, blogger, novelist, and publisher Vox Day. Topics include:
  • His political outlook and its formation
  • Why he is no longer a Libertarian
  • “National libertarianism”
  • The necessity of borders
  • The European refugee crisis
  • Why nationalism and tribalism are unstoppable forces
  • Illegitimate forms of identity politics
  • The problem of white identity in the United States as opposed to European national identities
  • His new book SJWs Always Lie
  • Why they always lie
  • Advice to those who wish to roll back political correctness
  • A preview of coming attractions
I think the most interesting part of the interview was when we discussed the problem of "white identity". I think "whites" are inclined to significantly underperform in identity politics for much the same reason that "Hispanics" and "Asians" do, which is that most people who qualify as white don't primarily identify as White in the same manner that more cohesive minorities such as Blacks, Jews, Gays, and Women (which actually means Feminists) do.

Ask a "Hispanic" what he is and he'll tell you he is Mexican or Guatemalan. Ask an "Asian" what he is and he'll tell you Chinese or Thai. Ask a "white" and he'll tell you "mostly German" or "half-this, half-that". You will almost never hear anyone self-identify as White, nor would you have 30 or 40 years ago. And a man who identifies as "Italian-American" is simply not going to see another man who identifies as "Irish" or "Scandinavian" or "German" as his goombah and proactively engage in nepotistic favoritism on his behalf.

There is no nationalism without a cohesive nation and there is no tribalism without identification with the specific tribe.

Labels: ,

207 Comments:

1 – 200 of 207 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Real Republican September 08, 2015 8:15 AM  

Greg Johnson is a racist and anti-semite!

You Trump-humper can't even help your selves.

Jeffery Tucker, Adam Baldwin, Nick Searcy, Jonah Goldberg are all right -- you are total brownshirts now.

Blogger VD September 08, 2015 8:18 AM  

Greg Johnson is a racist and anti-semite!

DISQUALIFY! That's new. You know, if it doesn't work for SJWs, why do you think it will work for Real Republicans? Go ahead and throw in with them if you like.

You can't purge us because we're not on your team.

Blogger Steffen September 08, 2015 8:20 AM  

We need a better class of troll than that...

Blogger Jack Aubrey September 08, 2015 8:21 AM  

It's getting harder to distinguish a Real Republican from a Real Democrat these days.

Blogger Bodichi (0031) September 08, 2015 8:35 AM  

@Real Republican

If you are not a troll, if you have actually come here for debate and thoughtful conversation, why is the first thing you throw out insults? If you want to be taken seriously and actually persuade others, why don't you lay out some carefully thought out talking points?

Blogger dc.sunsets September 08, 2015 8:38 AM  

Boy, you nailed it. As I read history, the success of the Ashkenazim must have much to do with the extraordinary level of cohesiveness of that group. Of course, this is a visible asset for its members during periods of social harmony. It is less so, but a major group success factor, during periods of social strife, as it mercilessly culls the group of all but the nimblest members. Today, Jews are highly-placed in government and industry across much of the West, and they often openly identify first with other Jews and Israel. If times of social strife come again, the weaker and slower of these may find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Social cohesion can cut both ways.

What often seems "great" across the spectrum of members in a group yields group weakness, while what seems punishing often forges a better group.

The current war on white males might actually yield a better crop of white males in the future, assuming the strong and nimble of the group are wise enough to cluster and fight, and mercilessly out-group those who ostensibly hold membership cards but who are otherwise weak and appeasement-prone.

Blogger Steffen September 08, 2015 8:38 AM  

We need a better class of troll than that...

Blogger dc.sunsets September 08, 2015 8:41 AM  

I suppose it's pretty obvious to whom "weak and appeasement-prone" applies.

Blogger James Dixon September 08, 2015 8:42 AM  

> We need a better class of troll than that...

Poe's law

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 8:42 AM  

I've never heard of a Mexican astronaut. No wonder, mañana won't get you to the Moon.

Great interview, Vox.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 08, 2015 8:43 AM  

OT: It's fun to see the Financial Times offer something to tickle the funny bones of those who pay attention to more than the Kardashians. I'd think this applies to the usual visitors of VP.

http://gizmodo.com/only-smart-people-will-understand-the-fts-amazing-new-4-1729106468

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 8:43 AM  

I would take issue with the claim that america has a weak sense of identity. The issue is not that america has no identity. Its that regions of the US have very strong identities.

Southern Pride is nationalism.

Blogger Bodichi (0031) September 08, 2015 8:44 AM  

@James

Ah! I was parody trolled!

Blogger Nate Winchester September 08, 2015 8:47 AM  

*listens*

Wait, which VFM forgot to get Vox his dark lord voice reverb mask? He doesn't sound evil at all in that interview!

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 8:47 AM  

also... it sounds like you're being interviewed by Napoleon Dynamite.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 08, 2015 8:47 AM  

What Nate said is true. I am a Southerner (by the Grace of God), first and foremost.

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 8:50 AM  

"You Trump-humper can't even help your selves.

Jeffery Tucker, Adam Baldwin, Nick Searcy, Jonah Goldberg are all right -- you are total brownshirts now."

You should try yelling "racist" at us some more. No one's ever tried that tactic.

Blogger VD September 08, 2015 8:55 AM  

I would take issue with the claim that america has a weak sense of identity. The issue is not that america has no identity. Its that regions of the US have very strong identities.

You just contradicted yourself there. If the regions have strong identities, there is no "American" identity, much less a "white" identity. I agree that "Southern" is an identity, but it is a defeated and occupied one that couldn't even successfully defend its own symbol earlier this year.

Anonymous PA September 08, 2015 9:00 AM  

With the name like "Real Republican," that comment sounds more lIke parody than a troll.

Anonymous PA September 08, 2015 9:06 AM  

The high water mark for American identity was the 1980s.

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 9:06 AM  

"Southern" ... couldn't even successfully defend its own symbol earlier this year."

Zing.

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 9:13 AM  

Now, that is a good interview (just as I expected from CC). Finally an intelligent questioner. In fact, it's the best Vox Day interview I've encountered yet. The host asked Vox the right questions, those that enabled him to introduce himself to unfamiliar readers; he eked out the most important points of the new book; but the interview also featured (and this was the most interesting segment) a worthwhile debate between the host and interviewer on white identity, in which they offered different perspectives that were both thought-provoking and which both had merit. I think I lean towards Johnson's inclination in that regard, but Day did point out a critical stumbling block.

My own disagreement with Day's remarks would be with regard to the success of Hispanic identity politics. I cannot fathom the idea that Hispanic politics can be considered anything other that massively successful (from their point of view) and deleterious to white America, given that they have managed to keep an endless flow of their kin coming in across the border. Only the Jews (and probably women) have been more successful at identity politics, in terms of how they've benefited their own kind.

An excellent discussion and worth hearing in full.

Anonymous RS September 08, 2015 9:18 AM  

The only 'Southerners' that used the stars and bars as their 'symbol' were trailer trash, crooked Boss Hog good ok boys, and MPAIs.

Southern identity runs much deeper than statist-coopted Civil War flags. Hell, Georgia got rid of one Civil War flag and put up another only a few years later.

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 9:18 AM  

I agree that "Southern" is an identity, but it is a defeated and occupied one that couldn't even successfully defend its own symbol earlier this year.

Is that a weakness of identity or rather (and this is what I believe) a weakness of material power? You can have all the identity in the world, but if you don't own the media and can't bribe politicians, you can't exert your will

Blogger YIH September 08, 2015 9:23 AM  

@1:
You forgot the /sarc

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 9:24 AM  

@24 I lived in Colorado for five years, watched as the Cailfornians kept coming. I didn't find people from the east as desirious to alter the landscape as Californians. Most from the east I knew liked Colorado as we found it, not wanting to interfere. Not the Californians.

Anonymous Crude September 08, 2015 9:24 AM  

With the name like "Real Republican," that comment sounds more lIke parody than a troll.

You'd be surprised. One response to Trump's rise has been a lot of establishment supporters trying to talk about how Trump and his supporters aren't REAL Republicans or REAL conservatives.

They have it in their head that the one thing which can dissolve support for what Trump is saying is stirring up party loyalty. The big problem there being that conservative party loyalty to the Republicans is probably at an all-time low.

Blogger James Dixon September 08, 2015 9:27 AM  

> it is a defeated and occupied one that couldn't even successfully defend its own symbol earlier this year.

Vox, the number of openly flown Confederate battle flags in my area has gone from half a dozen or so to something on the order of 40 or 50. And this is West Virginia, which fought on the other side.

> My own disagreement with Day's remarks would be with regard to the success of Hispanic identity politics.

That's not Hispanic identity politics, that's (primarily) Mexican identity politics.

Blogger Jack Ward September 08, 2015 9:29 AM  

I would suggest there is a 4th. law to the sjw litany.

4. The ends always justify the means.

@21 Maybe so Salt; but, since that kerfuffle started, I have seen many more Confederate battle flags flying on vehicles around here, particularly in Wal Mart parking lots. Mostly on pickups.
You do what you can.

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 9:30 AM  

That's not Hispanic identity politics, that's (primarily) Mexican identity politics.

A fair point. But what would be the difference, in practical terms?

Anonymous Dave September 08, 2015 9:31 AM  

"video game designer, musician, blogger, novelist, and publisher"

Did you request these items be listed in this order? I mean band member before novelist or editor? Where's "Hugo Nominated" mentioned? What is your publicist doing?

Blogger Cail Corishev September 08, 2015 9:33 AM  

I cannot fathom the idea that Hispanic politics can be considered anything other that massively successful (from their point of view) and deleterious to white America, given that they have managed to keep an endless flow of their kin coming in across the border.

Have Hispanics themselves done that, though, or have they just been the beneficiaries? When I look at who's pushing mass immigration politically, I see mostly white faces. Sure, there are some Hispanic politicians in the mix these days, but they were pulled in by the white liberals more than pushed in by their own people. The Chamber of Commerce and white liberal politicians keep that flow coming.

Steve Sailer has talked about this quite a bit. The media keeps talking about the coming Hispanic power at the polls, and the Hispanics keep not showing up. They don't care enough to organize and agitate, unless there's a soccer game maybe.

Blogger YIH September 08, 2015 9:35 AM  

@14 Nate Winchester:
Wait, which VFM forgot to get Vox his dark lord voice reverb mask? He doesn't sound evil at all in that interview!
He's not nearly as nasal as he was when he was doing his own podcasts.

Blogger VD September 08, 2015 9:37 AM  

My own disagreement with Day's remarks would be with regard to the success of Hispanic identity politics. I cannot fathom the idea that Hispanic politics can be considered anything other that massively successful (from their point of view) and deleterious to white America, given that they have managed to keep an endless flow of their kin coming in across the border.

That's ridiculous. Look at how many Hispanics there are. How many Hispanic politicians do you see, either on the state or federal level? They are MASSIVELY underrepresented and do not wield anything close to the political power that their numbers indicate they should.

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 9:37 AM  

"Have Hispanics themselves done that, though, or have they just been the beneficiaries? When I look at who's pushing mass immigration politically, I see mostly white faces."

Ah, now there you have me. I cede the point.

Blogger VD September 08, 2015 9:38 AM  

Did you request these items be listed in this order?

No.

Blogger YIH September 08, 2015 9:41 AM  

'Real Republican' = parody of a cuckservative... Or Jizzabel.

Anonymous zen0 the Ephemeral September 08, 2015 9:41 AM  

National Libertarian Moshe Feiglin:

“Those who constantly seek to negate their Jewish identity, take advantage of the horrifying pictures of the refugees to break the collective Jewish-identity will.
In order to perfect the world we must first be ourselves. The person throwing a rope to the person drowning must be standing on solid ground.
Europe is committing suicide before our eyes. They rejected their identity in favor of individualism and that was their undoing. Israel really cannot afford to undergo the same process,” Feiglin concluded.


Moshe Feiglin: Israel Must Not Open Gates to Syrian Refugees

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 9:43 AM  

"Look at how many Hispanics there are. How many Hispanic politicians do you see, either on the state or federal level? They are MASSIVELY underrepresented and do not wield anything close to the political power that their numbers indicate they should."

This is true, but then again, that may simply reflect the fact that this is not a burning desire for them. And with good reason: since their greatest wish (to bring over as many of their kind as possible) is already amply being satisfied, they hardly need to have their politicians in place, do they? The politicians who are already there are already pushing their interests (or I should say, interest, singular -- importing their people).

Perhaps I should say, "Hispanic identity politics has been extraordinarily successful -- as engineered by Leftists more so than the Hispanics themselves." It still means that Hispanic identity politics have been successful, just that the Hispanics have not been the sole, or maybe not even the primary, agents of that success.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 08, 2015 9:44 AM  

Honestly, I disagree. There is an overall American identity along with sub regional identities. People are capable of more than one identity after all.

This isn't flag waiving on my part...Not in any serious way.

Take a look at China. A long history of a national identity as the people of the Han, yet with very, very strong regional sub-identities. Yes, China has had periods of disunity, yet they always get back together.

I remember the brief period of American nationalist re-unification during the Post 9-11 period in 2002. It's weak, it battered and unhealthy but it's still there.

Now as for not identifying with the American Government, I'd have to agree at this point. The concept of our Social Contract has been broken by Washington.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey September 08, 2015 9:45 AM  

Very cool. I've been hoping for, and working towards, interaction among various Alt-Right, Manosphere, and Red Pill figures for years. It's happening.

It is interesting, though, to see Greg take such an interest in VD given that he has previously slagged off the Manosphere, Red Pill community (of which VD undeniably is a part).

"The high water mark for American identity was the 1980s."

The Last White Decade.

The key is for Whites to start thinking of themselves not merely as Whites, but as European-Americans, or Europeans-over-the-water. This is the civilization that binds us together. They don't target us as Italians, Germans, or Scandinavians, but as Whites, or European-Americans.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey September 08, 2015 9:49 AM  

"The high water mark for American identity was the 1980s."

I remember very clearly around 1989-1991 that non-Whites--mostly Africans--began appearing in much larger numbers in television shows, advertisements, and commercials. I thought it was quite odd. It certainly contributed to my racial awareness at the time.

Blogger James Dixon September 08, 2015 9:51 AM  

> A fair point. But what would be the difference, in practical terms?

To us, none. To the Hispanics, quite a bit. Hispanic covers a wide range.

Blogger kudzu bob September 08, 2015 9:51 AM  

@24.

Is that a weakness of identity or rather (and this is what I believe) a weakness of material power?

It is a weakness of will that manifests itself as lack of material power. There are far more Southern White men--many of them armed, and with military training--than there are cubicle-dwelling, hoplophobic SJWs, and yet the former are invariably defeated in any conflict between the two groups. Southern White men could turn this country around in a short period of time...if, that is, somehow they could be bothered to devote one tenth of the attention to activism that they now beerily devote to watching the 85-IQ descendants of slaves play football. No wonder even the Republican politicians they vote for hold them in open contempt.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 08, 2015 9:55 AM  

Vox is right on white identity but perhaps it is being forged from the left

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 10:01 AM  

"It is a weakness of will that manifests itself as lack of material power. There are far more Southern White men--many of them armed, and with military training--than there are cubicle-dwelling, hoplophobic SJWs, and yet the former are invariably defeated in any conflict between the two groups."

While I don't disagree with your point, I don't think that will is primarily what cause the lack of material power -- which is why I put the word "material" in there, rather than just power. What is lacking is the shrewdness, slyness, cleverness that a certain tribe uses to attain worldly riches, and with those riches they own the media. This also accounts for the victories of the SJWs. The SJWs themselves win largely because the media that the tribe owns, and over which they have editorial control, take their (the SJWs) side.

And that shrewdness, slyness, and cleverness comes not from will (or at least not entirely), but from a certain type of mind, and impulses that many others find distasteful.

So, yes, there is a certain lack of will, but more importantly, I think, is simply a lack of the kind of scheming mindset that enables one to attain the material wealth to then influence the world.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 10:04 AM  

@46. karsten, yes.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 08, 2015 10:09 AM  

Whites lack the moral level of war

Blogger kudzu bob September 08, 2015 10:11 AM  

@46

The situation is not helped of course, by the adherence of so many White Southerners to a dumbed-down form of Christianity that has them worshiping Jews. Whenever I hear one of them proclaim how he would rather have this country perish in a nuclear war than see any harm befall Israel, I despair of my people.

Blogger Nate Winchester September 08, 2015 10:15 AM  

@33 Now you've got me thinking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjEjt5vMosI

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 10:16 AM  

"The situation is not helped of course, by the adherence of so many White Southerners to a dumbed-down form of Christianity that has them worshiping Jews. Whenever I hear one of them proclaim how he would rather have this country perish in a nuclear war than see any harm befall Israel, I despair of my people."

All too true -- and utterly insane. The noble heroes of the true Old South would be ashamed of their descendants for having such a twisted mentality.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 10:20 AM  

Karsten is quite right with regard to latino identity and political power. It's true that inertia and the built-in slow response to massive demographic change in the United States does not appear yet in equal numbers among political leaders. Given time, that will change, as California's latin-americanization becomes cemented and Texas' begins to really bite. Latinos also value local politics over what they view as national government, due to their experiences in not having much say over national organs of power.

With regard to their over-all identity, it depends on how the question is raised. Yes, they self-identify as Mexican, Salvadorean or Cuban first, Latino second, but with regard to Whites, we are all gringos and they are all brothers *in that regard*. Yes, they will fall to fighting amongst themselves later, but now they vote in lock step. The ONLY reason their solidarity doesn't appear odd and dangerous to American eyes is because we are used to the extremely unsual black bloc vote.

As my colleague from blessed Laguna Beach points out: our nation is European-American. I have more in common with a Scots-Canadian in Calgary than I do with an African-American in Atlanta or an Indian-American in New Jersey.

A European-American nation-state in North America is vital and I believe we will all live to see it born.

Blogger Nate Winchester September 08, 2015 10:22 AM  

That's ridiculous. Look at how many Hispanics there are. How many Hispanic politicians do you see, either on the state or federal level? They are MASSIVELY underrepresented and do not wield anything close to the political power that their numbers indicate they should.

Well.... you may be misjudging their game. It's weird to think about, but this is something Derb brought up in his latest podcast:

"The phrase "Latino supremacist" needs unpacking. The usual rule in Latin American nations, certainly in Mexico, is that the commanding heights of politics, culture, and the economy are held by whites, while the bronze race, La Raza, feeds on scraps from their tables.

So Latino supremacy in practice means white-Latino supremacy. Somebody should ask Rep. Gutiérrez why mestizos like himself, much less brown or black Americans, should wish for this.


End quote. It's a good point. For a column I wrote last year I put together collage pictures of the last dozen Presidents of Mexico, and the same for Brazil. As I said in my column, they, quote: "don't look anything like California lettuce-pickers or Carnavaleras," end quote. They sure don't. What they look like is, boards of directors of two Westchester County exclusive golf clubs.

So why is congresscritter Gutiérrez pushing for a society which presumably will end up, as all Latino societies do, stratified by race, with whites running the show and browns like himself doing the yard work?"

So who knows. Maybe Hispanics are winning because the country's looking more and more like they think it should?

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 10:25 AM  

A European-American nation-state in North America is vital and I believe we will all live to see it born.

We need some good American Nationalist songs. Get the blood boiling, get Americans to want to march in lock-step against the invaders.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 08, 2015 10:33 AM  

Ask a "white" and he'll tell you "mostly German" or "half-this, half-that".

The NW Euros won't engage in tribal nepotism at all unless times are really tough. They barely practice nepotism within the nuclear family!

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 10:34 AM  

"We need some good American Nationalist songs. Get the blood boiling, get Americans to want to march in lock-step against the invaders."

This is not exactly what you're looking for -- and I agree that the kind of martial, militant anthems that you desire ARE needed -- but it's kind of inspiring in its own way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg1uP_dYd-Q

And just for amusement's sake, since it's kind of topical to this discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIwIRD9HFDE

Blogger JACIII September 08, 2015 10:41 AM  

@48 So, yes, there is a certain lack of will, but more importantly, I think, is simply a lack of the kind of scheming mindset that enables one to attain the material wealth to then influence the world.

It is not a lack of scheming on the part of Southrons. It is a lack of caring what other parties are up to; a lack of vigilance. There is a fallacious expectation in the South that if one minds one's own business others will mind theirs. We simply wish to be left alone to live as we do and see no reason to enter into societal conflict so long as we are able to continue this.

We have no interest in engaging in low intensity sparing and monkey games. We find the yankees abhorrent and we feel soiled by rolling around amongst them. The hispanics are nicely occupying the blacks, the arabs are causing the jews to consider emigrating to isreal. We have time, still. The weak and stupid among us are self identifying and our enemies are prone to overreach. "Hide and watch" is an apt Southron adage.

Sure, we are the frog in a pot and the yankee and his barbarian filth are slowly turning up the heat, but the Southron frog is liable to not stay put when the water actually gets hot.

There may even come a time where we must spruce up the old hanging tree.

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 10:54 AM  

@56 Something more along the lines of this, or this.

Anonymous World War Jew September 08, 2015 10:59 AM  

"Have Hispanics themselves done that, though, or have they just been the beneficiaries? When I look at who's pushing mass immigration politically, I see mostly white faces."

Blacks, TheTribe, Hispanics and Asians have no power whatsoever in a European descendent society but that which White Elite Traitors have given them purposefully. So it begs the question: What is the end purpose?
The answer is of course a boot stomping on the face of Nationalism forevermore as they Transform your traditionally White societies and enact irrevocable Control, money being simply and ancillary and useful benefit.
Destruction of Sovereignty has been the aim of the Globalists for more than a Century. It is what they loathe and fear the most, thus, White countries for everyone.
The Serb Christians were accused of "genocide" while simply protecting themselves from the Muslim hoards. That was obviously unacceptable to the US military and the Oxford Rhodes Scholar, the US Congress, and those whispering in their ear. They're coming from the Balkans because the circumstances for them to do so were created two decades ago by "NATO". Why Cold War 2? The Vlad is having none of it. You can't see it if you're thinking only politics. The entryism is Cultural, and as former KGB, he'd understand how it's done very well - they change the hearts and minds first by way of fear and guilt propaganda. Feminism, Homosexuality, etc. That's what Marxism does.
What are you guilty of, white boy? That's right. Nothing countless other peoples and nations haven't themselves done and continue to do. See: "Israel's Immigration Policy".They're using your tax dollars @$3billion/year to pay refugees to go to Europe.
A People for me, but not for thee. Evangelical Churchians are gonna have to drop the C I Scofield bullshit, and that right quick. How's that "I will bless those that bless thee" working out for you, Westerners? Revel in your "blessings". Strange gods, indeed.
Play the game that they've long played. You're gonna get a little soiled. It's ok, Euro - that is far more the history of peoples than not.
Out the Traitors and those they use to accomplish their goals.
Anti-Racism is a code word for Anti-White.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 11:04 AM  

@12 Nate

Southern Pride is nationalism
---

+1

Blogger The Original Hermit September 08, 2015 11:07 AM  

@54 "We need some good American Nationalist songs. Get the blood boiling, get Americans to want to march in lock-step against the invaders."

I've always been partial to Manowar: Blood of The Kings lyrics
And for the VFM, something a bit more over the top: Hail and Kill lyrics

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 11:11 AM  

@26 Salt
@24 I lived in Colorado for five years, watched as the Cailfornians kept coming. I didn't find people from the east as desirious to alter the landscape as Californians. Most from the east I knew liked Colorado as we found it, not wanting to interfere. Not the Californians.
---------------

Please tell me the regional names you call those people. I'd like to know :P

For instance, we call yankees who move to Florida, find its too hot then move to AL GA NC SC TN, half-backs.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis September 08, 2015 11:18 AM  

@40

I second Cataline's opinion there. The big question is, will that remain as the demographics of America change. My personal experience has given me evidence points both in favor and against it, but then personal experience doesn't really matter when it comes to making predictions for the general population.

Blogger Salt September 08, 2015 11:18 AM  

@62 Didn't have names for them back then. Just didn't like them.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 11:20 AM  

@49 kudzu bob
@46

The situation is not helped of course, by the adherence of so many White Southerners to a dumbed-down form of Christianity that has them worshiping Jews. Whenever I hear one of them proclaim how he would rather have this country perish in a nuclear war than see any harm befall Israel, I despair of my people.
-----

I have never heard such a thing. Where exactly do you hear this sentiment? I'm more likely to hear someone blathering on and on how the Jews are behind everything.

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 11:26 AM  

"Something more along the lines of this, or this."

Magnificent. Truly magnificent.

It's very telling (and of course, coldly calculated) that whenever we see footage of the German forces in WWII, it's always overdubbed with weirdly dissonant, atonal, creepy music. You never hear their original marching songs, which, like these that you have link, are festive and folkloric and speak of camaraderie and the pure joy of life, and offer a window into the real, life-affirming, masculine sensibility that these brave men had, back in the day.

I know the lyrics of some old Prussian war songs in translation, and they're truly inspiring.

Blogger Nate Winchester September 08, 2015 11:26 AM  

@64 I could stand to hear more complaints about california though. Seems like a lot of the nation's troubles originate from there and the west coast...

(hey, New York is no peach but at least they seem to keep more to themselves)

Anonymous Donn #0114 September 08, 2015 11:26 AM  

Sailer had a blog post about the Hispanic under achievement at all levels. How many politicians, how many charitable organizations, how many hospitals, how many etc etc.

The answers were always damn few or none. Most criminal invaders who came here do not believe they are the 'political class' and most are too honest (even the felons) to want to be something as dirty as a politician. Sorry, that last part was sarcasm. But politicians are dirty.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 11:28 AM  

@67 Nate Winchester

(hey, New York is no peach but at least they seem to keep more to themselves
----

Wow, I must be in an alternate universe.

Blogger kudzu bob September 08, 2015 11:46 AM  

@65

Have you never heard of Dispensationalism, a heretical form of Christianity no more native to the South than is the invasive species from which I derive my pseudonym?

Anonymous daddynichol #126 September 08, 2015 11:47 AM  

Please tell me the regional names you call those people. I'd like to know :P

"Assholes" was, and still is, used quite often.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 12:19 PM  

Good interview; worth the time to listen to.

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 12:43 PM  

""Southern" ... couldn't even successfully defend its own symbol earlier this year"

See this is why not living here causes problems. You see the news. You don't see the fact that literally everywhere you go in the south now there are battle flag flying. In gatlinburg and pigeon forge stores were displaying them out front for sale and the cashiers said they were selling out routinely.

Up and down the interstate you see battleflags flying from truck bed.

In the south... all they did was light a fire.

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 12:50 PM  

"
You just contradicted yourself there. If the regions have strong identities, there is no "American" identity, much less a "white" identity"

And that isn't a contradiction because its a distinction without a difference. The southern americans don't have to an american identity any more than the germans have to have a european identity.

Alabama will defend itself. It evicted a huge chunk of the illegal population already. and yes here that distinction matters because the vast majority of them are in fact illegal.

You should've seen it. it was a high school football nightmare. Teams all over the state were suddenly without their kickers.

Blogger IM2L844 September 08, 2015 12:58 PM  

I like the use of the word "tribalism" because it includes specific subcultures and countercultures that have some racial, gender, geographic and political overlap such as SJWs who try to paint themselves as inclusive and tolerant, but are every bit as bigoted and exclusionary as the KKK.

Anonymous Crude September 08, 2015 1:05 PM  

And a man who identifies as "Italian-American" is simply not going to see another man who identifies as "Irish" or "Scandinavian" or "German" as his goombah and proactively engage in nepotistic favoritism on his behalf.

While this is completely true, the mental image of some italian stereotype calling a german stereotype his 'goombah' is so awesome, I wish I had the art skill to draw it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 08, 2015 1:11 PM  

I gave White Identity a thought or two over lunch. I suspect a big part of this lack of identity stems all the way back the American War for Independence.

There are German-Americans, Dutch-Americans, French-Americans, Italian-Americans, Swedish-Americans, Norwegian-Americans, Danish-Americans, Irish-Americans, Scottish-Americans, Polish Americans and on and on.

But there is no such thing as an English-American.

No Brittish-Americans either come to that.

The closest we came to even a concept of that was the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant and that was a term of derision for group that did not dare name itself.

Our split from England came at a time when the English civilization was hitting a low point and English identity itself was being submerged by Magna Britannia.

When Nationalism rose in Europe, (courtesy of the Prussian School system), the English as a separate ethnicity got left out. By 1850-something England was the junior partner in Great Britain, Edinburgh being the financial powerhouse of the Sceptered Isle by then.

So what chance did an English identity have in America? The English made for a convenient historical whipping boy. They were the bad guys in our two first (official) wars.

Our central identity is there but it is unnamed because if it did have a name it would be English-American.

Anonymous Anonymous September 08, 2015 1:19 PM  

Do you have the Interview in written form?

Blogger David-093 September 08, 2015 1:25 PM  

"And that isn't a contradiction because its a distinction without a difference. The southern americans don't have to an american identity any more than the germans have to have a european identity."

What would Southerners call themselves if they seceded again? Southrons? Americans? From what I've seen, Southerners very much identify as Americans, its just that they see themselves as the True Americans and the Northeast/West Coast as godless degenerates.

Blogger David-093 September 08, 2015 1:27 PM  

"Up and down the interstate you see battleflags flying from truck bed."

I've never seen so many battle flags in my life as I have in the past few months. New England should have left the South alone.

Blogger Dexter September 08, 2015 1:30 PM  

It's very telling (and of course, coldly calculated) that whenever we see footage of the German forces in WWII, it's always overdubbed with weirdly dissonant, atonal, creepy music. You never hear their original marching songs, which, like these that you have link, are festive and folkloric and speak of camaraderie and the pure joy of life,

Until the depressing final verse about the death-bullet and the iron grave, anyway.

But heck I still wind the car windows down and crank it up...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5hjByZuUNs

Anonymous Porky September 08, 2015 1:34 PM  

@73

I was wondering.... how come Arizona became such a national outrage with other states boycotting and such...... while Alabama did almost the same thing and there was nary a peep about it?

Blogger David-093 September 08, 2015 1:35 PM  

@81

Because Alabama showed it could be done, with virtually no cost or violence, and quickly.

Anonymous Jim Milo September 08, 2015 1:38 PM  

The Lord Mayor of London is a distant cousin, but I'm no City bankster.

Might explain my interest in law, however.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian September 08, 2015 1:40 PM  

Another great interview. Great especially for the back and forth for exposition instead of the super gay, leftist interviewer gotcha game.

Anonymous Jim Milo September 08, 2015 1:44 PM  

@1 Yes, Trump is definitely no true Scotsman.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 1:44 PM  

No, no, no guys, the Alabama move was quickly killed by Federal courts, just as they killed our California moves decades ago. And, just like out West, your businessmen were the people who brought the Federal suit to kill it.

It's all just talk until some contractors and landscape company owners are hung. Then we'll know something is happening.

Anonymous Jim Milo September 08, 2015 1:52 PM  

@42 Spike Lee is what happened.

Lost a good black friend after he saw that propaganda and no longer wanted to be seen with 'whitey.'

Anonymous Jim Milo September 08, 2015 2:07 PM  

@77 I'm Canadian-American, but thanks to the IRS now I'm just Canadian.

Anonymous Orville September 08, 2015 2:10 PM  

@77 I think I'd disagree with that, but not because I identify as English. My people, and I'm not speaking of countries, ruled most of the world for several centuries, particularly if you think of it in terms of the Anglo-American empire.

Anonymous Takin' a look September 08, 2015 2:10 PM  

"True" Americans....hmmm, I would say they are Southrons and the Blue-Dog Populists of the Mid-West. It's not necessarily racial, it is more a sense of belonging and ennui. Hajnali values of a sort.
The once prevailing ethos of the masses in the American Way which had it's high-water mark in the 1980s and went downhill from there.

@zen0 The Ephemeral

Moishe Feiglin is quite disingenuous. He knows perfectly well his fellow $aturdays are kicking the White Man off the beach into the rip-tide.

Anonymous Orville September 08, 2015 2:12 PM  

Not that I'm a proponent of empire, but what other ethnic group other than the Romans comes so close to that level of supremacy.

Blogger Daniel September 08, 2015 2:22 PM  

I've lost count at the number of battle flags I have seen flying in trucks, or new stickers on bumpers or sold at the truckstops...

...in Iowa.

25 years ago, for no other reason but dumb teenage aesthetics, I bought a full-size battle flag and hung it on my wall. Almost every friend I ever had over asked me if I was a white supremacist. Even as a stupid kid it was then I realized that most of my friends were dumber than me.

Blogger Daniel September 08, 2015 2:24 PM  

The 1980s were not the high-water mark of white culture, just the last predominantly white decade.

Stop. Hammertime.

Anonymous Takin' a look September 08, 2015 2:29 PM  

@Daniel

Agreed, it was the last decade that Whites still felt like they had a shining future.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 08, 2015 2:37 PM  

The key is for Whites to start thinking of themselves not merely as Whites, but as European-Americans, or Europeans-over-the-water.

Entirely wrong, Fogey. (1) Whites do not "merely" identify as "whites"; they generally don't ID as a group ("whites") at all. (2) Whites are being attacked "as whites", not as Europeans. (3) When you attack and seek to oppress someone, they tend to coalesce; we are in the beginning phase of this happening to whites; the eventual result will be that they will "identify as whites" as a group. But they don't now. Not yet.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 08, 2015 2:40 PM  

" the Alabama move was quickly killed by Federal courts"

No it wasn't, and that's why many of the migrants have left Alabama.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 3:09 PM  

@94. VFM bot #188: "But they don't now. Not yet."

Those of us who do aren't monsters; we're just ahead of the curve.

Anonymous Discard September 08, 2015 3:13 PM  

My European ancestry is mixed, and my parents never mentioned it. I did not know even know the origin of my own name until it was part of a class assignment in 8th grade. White American Christian is the only identity I have. Despite being without any Anglo-Saxon blood, I see the Kings of England as my ancestral rulers, because they ruled the colonies that became America. When reading European history, I emotionally root for the English, even when they oppose my own ancestors. White identity is very real for some of us.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 3:13 PM  

No, patrick, that's not correct. Many of them left because they catch the rumor mill and don't understand our system.

"Opponents of Alabama's strict immigration law are declaring victory Tuesday, as the state agreed not to pursue key provisions of a measure critics had called an endorsement of racial profiling. Earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the state's appeal of a federal court's ruling that gutted the law.

Widely considered the toughest immigration law in the U.S. when it took effect in 2011, the measure known as HB 56 was challenged soon after it was approved. Its opponents included the U.S. Justice Department, a coalition of civil rights groups, and religious groups."

and...

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday declined to consider a case concerning a tough 2011 Alabama immigration law that makes it a crime to harbor or transport immigrants not authorized to be in the United States or to induce them to enter or live in the state. The move left in place an appeals court ruling blocking the law.

The justices, as is their custom, offered no reasons for turning down the appeal. Justice Antonin Scalia noted his dissent but also offered no reasoning.

and from the ruling itself...691 F.3d 1269

Just like Arizona, Alabama has “understandable frustrations with the problems caused by illegal immigration.” Arizona, 132 S.Ct. at 2510. Although it is a problem that gives rise to unique issues in our Nation, we must be mindful that individual states “may not pursue policies that undermine federal law.” Id. We find that the United States is likely to succeed on the merits of its challenge to sections 10, 11(a), 13(a), 16, 17, and 27. Consistent with its position set forth in supplemental briefing, we agree with the United States that it is not likely to succeed on the merits of its challenge to section 12(a) or section 18 at this time. We also find that the United States has not shown at this stage that it is likely to succeed on the merits of its challenge to section 30. Finally, we dismiss the United States's appeal as to section 28 as moot, as our opinion in the private plaintiffs' companion case fully disposes of that issue

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 08, 2015 3:14 PM  

@ #96, Whitey: True dat.

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 08, 2015 3:14 PM  

"Fat Shaming" Video causes YouTube Row ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34185158

DO NOT look at the second picture.

You Have Been Warned.

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 3:17 PM  

"No, no, no guys, the Alabama move was quickly killed by Federal courts, just as they killed our California moves decades ago. And, just like out West, your businessmen were the people who brought the Federal suit to kill it."

Didn't matter.

They left before the bill was even passed. The one house passed it... the other house hadn't even voted yet.. and POOF... they were all gone.

I have heard that up in the northern part of the state they are still there... but they have easy access to friendly TN up there. They can be gone quick. Down here in south alabama... I don't even remember the last time I saw a mexican.

Anonymous Discard September 08, 2015 3:17 PM  

67. Nate Winchester: The Californians that move to your state may be disruptive. The New Yorkers disrupt your state with even setting foot in it.

Blogger Nate September 08, 2015 3:22 PM  

" Many of them left because they catch the rumor mill and don't understand our system. "

Gentlemen.. the point is... you don't even have to pass laws to scare the off. You just have to make them think you MAY pass laws... and they run for the hills.

Regardless... the fact is they left.

Which means Alabama defended itself.

Blogger Torial (#170) September 08, 2015 3:38 PM  

Its amazing how refreshing an interview is that doesn't have gotcha attempts like the Pakman one. Much more intelligent discussion and details occur.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper September 08, 2015 3:42 PM  

Aeoli Pera #55

The issue with Whites and lack of in group loyalty is ancient, dates at least to the Middle Ages where the Church, the EU of its day encouraged loyalty to "Christendom" rather than ones clan , tribe or kin,

It was quite pernicious in England too where it was common practice to send ones sons away to apprentice rather than keeping them close

Its going to be a while if/when the West self repairs before people unlearn this "outgroup" nonsense and either dial it back along racial lines, national lines or tribal lines,

All of these things come at a cost but I suspect will be essential for European peoples well being.

None of the elite religious or political will like, their ambitions exceed their allotted lands however if they don't like, tough.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 3:50 PM  

Nate - I agree that a state and its people taking a firm stand is helpful, and can for a short while chase them off, but they aren't established in Alabama yet. When they are, you'll find Alabama no differently placed than California was 30 years ago when we were at the same stage in the process.

Aside from a complete break, that is. I admit that is more likely to happen in Alabama than in my home state.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 3:51 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Alexander September 08, 2015 4:00 PM  

@106 Jourdan

As a Georgian it somewhat pains me to say this... but while I am uncertain of the outcome in Europe and the United States, I think the sun will die before Alabama and Mississippi fall to the invader. As soon as the first Anglo-Saxon showed up in Mississippi, that was it: and that includes a long window where non-whites were an absolute majority in the state.

Dammit all, but we should have said thanks, but no thanks to the federalists, now that the war's over we're going our own way... and we're taking the Yazoo lands with us!

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 08, 2015 4:06 PM  


The issue with Whites and lack of in group loyalty is ancient, dates at least to the Middle Ages where the Church, the EU of its day encouraged loyalty to "Christendom" rather than ones clan , tribe or kin,


That's an effect. Likely the cause lies further back in time. Cultures west of the Hajnal line are less tribal than the rest of the world.

Blogger Jourdan September 08, 2015 4:23 PM  

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, August 24, 2015

Justice Department Settles Immigration-Related Discrimination Claim Against Nebraska-Based Meat Packing Company

The Justice Department announced today that it reached a settlement with Nebraska Beef Ltd., a meat packing company headquartered in Omaha, Nebraska. The settlement resolves an investigation by the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices (OSC) into whether the company was engaging in employment discrimination in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). In particular, OSC investigated whether the company was requiring non-U.S. citizen employees, because of their citizenship status, to present proof of their immigration status for the employment eligibility verification process.

The department’s investigation found that the company required non-U.S. citizens, but not similarly-situated U.S. citizens, to present specific documentary proof of their immigration status to verify their employment eligibility. The INA’s anti-discrimination provision prohibits employers from making documentary demands based on citizenship or national origin when verifying an employee’s authorization to work. …

Under the settlement agreement, Nebraska Beef Ltd. will pay a $200,000 civil penalty to the United States and will establish an uncapped back pay fund to compensate individuals who lost wages because of the company’s practices. The settlement also requires the company to undergo compliance monitoring for two years, train its employees on the anti-discrimination provision of the INA, and to review and revise its office policies. For more information on the back pay fund or to make a claim for lost wages, please call 202-616-2603 or email OSC.NBClaims@usdoj.gov.

Anonymous clark September 08, 2015 4:29 PM  

In support of Nate's point on the flag being displayed more now than before; dozens of trucks here in Western NC are displaying it, where they didn't before.
But more importantly, when I was traveling all the way through Ohio a few weeks ago I took a lot of back roads. Throughout OHIO!, the battle flag was flying in front of peoples houses. I lived in Ohio 30 years ago and that was definitely not the case.

Blogger SciVo September 08, 2015 4:43 PM  

@ VD in the OP: "There is no nationalism without a cohesive nation and there is no tribalism without identification with the specific tribe."

Very true. That is why I favor Lawrence Murray's Anglo-Americanism:

"So how do we define Anglo-Americans in 2015? I define it as a people of white European descent who are from the United States (or Canada) and speak English both fluently and natively. Bonus points will be awarded for English or Scottish ancestry. Ultimately, one’s assorted European heritages are not critical in defining a white American identity, as we are no longer in Europe. What is useful is to have a term that is our own and reflects who we are, indigenized, intra-racially mixed white Europeans in North America who speak English."

Blogger rycamor September 08, 2015 4:45 PM  

I like Greg Johnson's summation of what this alternate human species, the SJW's really want: "they want to destroy our society and replace it with some kind of totalitarian system, which basically seems to boil down to patronizing crazy people."

Anonymous Porky September 08, 2015 4:46 PM  

Gentlemen.. the point is... you don't even have to pass laws to scare the off. You just have to make them think you MAY pass laws... and they run for the hills.

Well, they didn't flee Arizona. But then, there is a white sheet shortage in Arizona.

Anonymous Sonnenrad September 08, 2015 4:49 PM  

Vox: Reading "SJWs Always Lie" on Greg Johnson's exuberant recommendation--although I had already been acquainted with your blog for maybe two years--I ran across a claim that floored me: the '90s electronic band Psykosonik was YOU? The Mortal Kombat theme song, and the excellent "Unlearn" album? I still consider "Unlearn" one of my favorite albums from that intensely nostalgic period (I was a teenager) and I have listened to it multiple times in the last six months. In fact, it is one of the few albums I've kept with me since that time whose appeal is not solely nostalgia, despite the inevitable cheesy elements of the genre. Anyway, I wanted to share my surprise and also express my enthusiasm to the artist of a piece of work I have always felt was entirely underappreciated. (I did not care much for the other Psykosonik album, by the way, which fact will hopefully cast what I have already said in an even more earnestly appreciative light.)

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 4:52 PM  

@70 kudzu bob
@65

Have you never heard of Dispensationalism, a heretical form of Christianity no more native to the South than is the invasive species from which I derive my pseudonym?
----------------

Not sure I have heard of it. I read a lot of the link, which is interesting. But it mostly reads like a history of a movement, and not exactly what Dispensationalism is.

"Whenever I hear one of them proclaim how he would rather have this country perish in a nuclear war than see any harm befall Israel, I despair of my people."

When you said this earlier, this is what I have not heard from any Christians I know. Maybe it's more prominent in certain denominations? But yeah, I would despair too hearing something like that.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 08, 2015 4:53 PM  

@109 Paradigm: Tribalism "qua tribalism" is a horror. Look at Africa, even today, especially the Hutu-Tutsi genocide in Rwanda and the murderous suppression of the Matabeles by the Shona in Rhodesia.

European "tribalism" by contrast, takes the form of nationalism. Instead of fealty to a "tribe" per se, we look to our nations (which is what replaced our original early tribes, such as the Pics, the Angles, the Huns, the Goths, the Visigoths, the Alans, the Vandals, etc.)

But nationalism isn't such a great idea either, as two World Wars have demonstrated. So we're left for now with an open-border elite-led liberalism that is rapidly degrading European civilization. Then, as whites edge closer to becoming minorities, they will be discriminated against, oppressed, and even "hunted" (as some black Americans are publicly advocating today). At some point, probably sooner than we think, they will coalesce. That's what happens when you attack and oppress a group of people based on shared attributes. White skin will do (or "white privilege" as the SJW's put it). This process is why blacks in America are so politically homogeneous. They were caused to coalesce by oppression. Whites will eventually do the same.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 5:06 PM  

@100
Whatever happened to cool fat guys like Fat Albert?

Blogger Were-Puppy September 08, 2015 5:08 PM  

@101 Nate

Very similar thing happened here in Georgia. I see a few here and there, but not like a few years ago where you would see several hundred in Home Depot parking lots looking for work.

Blogger BunE22 September 08, 2015 5:22 PM  

@100

OT: Saw that video last night, this guy had a good response and was getting hell for it. http://youtu.be/4HrzYa6TRns

He's not afraid of the SJWs either.

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) September 08, 2015 5:24 PM  

“Some good American marching songs”

Swinging American Idiot

DannyR

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) September 08, 2015 5:26 PM  

Some good American marching songs
Swinging American Idiot

DannyR

Blogger Student in Blue September 08, 2015 5:28 PM  

@Sonnenrad
The Mortal Kombat theme song[...]
Googling tells me that The Immortals did that, not Psykosonik. A couple of the Mortal Kombat movies used Psykosonik songs though.

Blogger Student in Blue September 08, 2015 5:30 PM  

@VFM bot #188
But nationalism isn't such a great idea either, as two World Wars have demonstrated.

Is it really that the World Wars proved nationalism is a bad idea, or was it that those in charge using nationalism to push lies was a bad idea?

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) September 08, 2015 5:32 PM  

Swinging American Idiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UPaT6ltDs4
Some good American marching songs
Swinging American Idiot

DannyR
preview showed my comment as a link but it didn't publish that way?

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 5:36 PM  

When whites are as concerned with "keeping it real" as blacks are, in the sense of owning up to your racial and therefore cultural identity and not trying to be something else, this will be important progress.

A lot of the toxic fake identity politics of the social justice warrior comes from a flight from unbearable reality. Since authentic, biologically factual white identity has been made radioactive by the mass media and the legal system, and since human beings require identity, white people need fake identities, all the way to "otherkin". And whites who are particularly flawed and vulnerable on the identity front especially go for this.

That is why they are so easy to mold, for the Professor Traitorsteins who are vociferous and super-secure in their own collective identities. Social justice warriors need validation, and they will bow down and serve those who can provide it.

When I say, "keep it real," the obvious challenge is, "compared to what?" The answer to that challenge is: "compared to social justice warrior fantasy identities with no genuine biological basis, like 'otherkin'."

Anonymous Sonnenrad September 08, 2015 5:40 PM  

I stand corrected. https://youtu.be/pbLnEbf1W38 "It Has Begun" is the one I was thinking of. Maybe it's not THE Mortal Kombat theme song, but it is a Mortal Kombat-themed song and is better than the official one anyway. I don't think I had even listened to the original MK album, just the More Kombat compilation.

Anonymous Cheddarman September 08, 2015 5:46 PM  

@80 I grew up in Ohio, on a country road called "Yankee Road". Even I want to fly a Confederate Battle Flag. It seems like the only symbol of America that has not been corrupted to mean selling out your religion, race and culture.

Blogger kudzu bob September 08, 2015 5:49 PM  

@116

Maybe it's more prominent in certain denominations?

Yes, a great many Baptist, Pentecostal, and Charismatic groups among them.

You have Google. Begin searching terms such as "Dispensationalism" and "Israel," and do some reading on the attitude of Hal Lindsey and Timothy LaHaye toward Israel as well. I have nothing more to say on the subject.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 5:58 PM  

124. Student in Blue: "Is it really that the World Wars proved nationalism is a bad idea, or was it that those in charge using nationalism to push lies was a bad idea?"

When biologically homogeneous populations with common ethnic genetic interests are slaughtering each other by the millions, while moving different flags to and fro, that looks bad to me.

If the destruction of the common interest of the race principally involved in World War I does not refute the idea that national interests (practically speaking meaning narrow states interests) should be our bottom line, even at the expense of our shared biological interests, what would?

I don't know which of his books it is in, but there is a passage by C.S. Lewis where he mentions a friend who took pure delight in killing Germans (apparently for no other reason than that they were German). C.S. Lewis does not suggest that there is anything less than innocent about this. That is nationalist morality. I am not for it.

If that could be criticized, from the point of view of old-time morality, it would only be from the point of view of Christian universalism, which would fault Christian slaying Christian, and by the same token see no fault in the annihilation of the entire white race and its wholesale replacement by, say, Bantus, as long as they would profess Christ at comparable rates to the extinct whites. I am not for that either.

Blogger Marissa September 08, 2015 6:24 PM  

The issue with Whites and lack of in group loyalty is ancient, dates at least to the Middle Ages where the Church, the EU of its day encouraged loyalty to "Christendom" rather than ones clan , tribe or kin,

Which is the reason there were no Moors in Spain for a long time once they were kicked out. I don't see the EU defending Europe's territorial and demographic integrity. Interestingly, during the First Crusade, the men of Spain had to be ordered to stay and fight there instead of going on pilgrimage to Jerusalem to take back and defend the Holy Land.

Blogger Marissa September 08, 2015 6:25 PM  

I don't know which of his books it is in, but there is a passage by C.S. Lewis where he mentions a friend who took pure delight in killing Germans (apparently for no other reason than that they were German).

C.S. Lewis was friends with Harry S. Truman?

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 08, 2015 6:27 PM  

@ 124: A legitimate question, Blue, but I don't think it matters. Without the nationalism, the lies couldn't have gotten everyone juiced up enough to start killing. Without nationalism, the people running the show and peddling the lies couldn't have gotten into the positions of power where they could cause the holocausts they did.

Nationalism is based upon the artificial construct known as the State, and the State is responsible for most of the misery of humanity, right back to the dawn of civilization. We need something better. We need to transcend the God of the State which has caused unlimited slavery, death, destruction, misery, poverty, and suffering. (Note: I am not an idiot; therefore I am not an anarchist. But I don't know what the answer is either.)

Anonymous karsten September 08, 2015 6:47 PM  

"Nationalism isn't such a great idea either, as two World Wars have demonstrated"

Nice try. It wasn't nationalism but the internationalism that the nationalists were fighting against that caused the second of those wars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac65nF2tOHw

Nationalism protects against something far worse than "the State," which is an internationalist monostate. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, about "the State" if that state is ethnically and culturally homogeneous.

Blogger Anthony Gillis, the Hydra-Headed Mockery September 08, 2015 6:48 PM  

@62

Heh. I lived in Colorado a long time. People there, and the other states near California DO have a somewhat pejorative regional word for them: Californians.

Blogger Michael Maier September 08, 2015 6:55 PM  

"....but you're not going to get to the moon that way."

Classic stuff.

Of course, WE never got to the moon, either... but the point is taken.

Anonymous Quartermaster September 08, 2015 7:28 PM  

@49 @51

I'm a Southron and lived most of my adult life in the south. I'm also a Christian. I have as yet to hear anyone say such a stupid thing. Support Israel, yes, but not like that.

@65

Among Christians I don't hear that, but among the trailer trash it's common.

@67

Ever hear the name Chucky Shumer? Hardly a shrinking violet in anyone's book. New Yawkahs hardly keep to themselves. They are trying to export stupidity as much as Kalifornia is.

@70

Dispensationalism is no more heretical than Covenant theology which is far more aberrant. It would be nice if you had the slightest idea what you are talking before you let those fingers fly on the keyboard.

@79

godless degenerates are exactly what most of them are.

@81

There is a mistake in the lyrics in the subtitles. It's bestaubt, not verstaupt. They also left of the umlaut off glühend.

Blogger VD September 08, 2015 7:48 PM  

Vox: Reading "SJWs Always Lie" on Greg Johnson's exuberant recommendation--although I had already been acquainted with your blog for maybe two years--I ran across a claim that floored me: the '90s electronic band Psykosonik was YOU?

Paul and I were the two founding members. Mike joined next, then Dan. Unlearn was more Dan and Paul although I contributed most of the lyrics; the first CD was more the four of us working together. Paul and Dan later recorded a third CD, Spiritual Machine, that was unreleased.

Anonymous Discard September 08, 2015 8:24 PM  

105. A.B. Prosper: The willingness of some European peoples to accept other, compatible groups is not a weakness. The weakness lies in accepting people who do not reciprocate.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper September 08, 2015 8:39 PM  

Discard, you aren't wrong but most people including most other Europeans don't reciprocate. Thus encouraging out group loyalty in general even though its allows for more complex society is not a good thing.

VFM bot #188

Tribalism isn't really the issue, The 30 Years War was just as if not more violent and horrific than the Rwandan genocide . The 30YW ended up killing half the population of Germany . A lot of it it was about loyalty to variants of the same religion so tribalism really isn't worse

Why our societies don't like it is less violence but the fact it renders complex merchantile societies less feasible. Tribal societies are usually poorer than non tribal ones.

Original Eurpean societies were quite tribal but we picked up a love of "money societies" from the Romans and the Jews . I won't claim we'd be better off without them

Blogger Student in Blue September 08, 2015 9:15 PM  

@130. Whitey McWhite
When biologically homogeneous populations with common ethnic genetic interests are slaughtering each other by the millions, while moving different flags to and fro, that looks bad to me.

Biologically homogeneous populations, probably. Common ethnic genetic interests? Probably not if it's a biologically homogeneous population. It's because our current populations are heterogeneous that we have an ethnic 'other', and as such have a more solidly defined ethnic group with common interests.

With biologically homogeneous populations however? They'll find more minute differences. City folk versus rural folk. My family versus your family. Texans versus everyone else. Southron versus Yankees.

Regardless, killing each other over pointless stuff is bad. Nationalism by itself, with no urging by the State, does not automatically make people wage wars on others, however. Greed makes people start wars, Nationalism is just the excuse used.

If the destruction of the common interest of the race principally involved in World War I does not refute the idea that national interests (practically speaking meaning narrow states interests) should be our bottom line, even at the expense of our shared biological interests, what would?

It's not that the idea is refuted or needs to be refuted, but rather there is a conflation of definitions and as such the question doesn't matter. Is nationalism, patriotism? Does nationalism automatically mean holding water for the government? The definitions, practical and technical, do not suggest so.

If nationalism doesn't mean unreservedly approving of the State, then nationalism has nothing to do with what the State believes its national interests are.

I don't know which of his books it is in, but there is a passage by C.S. Lewis where he mentions a friend who took pure delight in killing Germans (apparently for no other reason than that they were German). C.S. Lewis does not suggest that there is anything less than innocent about this. That is nationalist morality. I am not for it.

If that could be criticized, from the point of view of old-time morality, it would only be from the point of view of Christian universalism, which would fault Christian slaying Christian, and by the same token see no fault in the annihilation of the entire white race and its wholesale replacement by, say, Bantus, as long as they would profess Christ at comparable rates to the extinct whites. I am not for that either.


I am not for it either.

The Christian would certainly see fault in the annihilation of the entire white race and its wholesale replacement by self-proclaimed Christians. For one, to lay down and die for no reason is in the same spirit as suicide which is a sin.

It also flies in the face of the first command given to humans, to be fruitful and multiply, filling the four corners of the earth. Glibly accepting nihilism spits in the spirit of that command.

Moreover, the Christian must continue to live so that witnessing may continue in its fullest. We would not care for our fellow man if we did not do all we could to proclaim the cross of Jesus.

As for the man who saw Germans as essentially inhuman... sociopathy exists no matter who or where. There will certainly be people who will take the concept of "I love my people", and twist it so that anything who is not their people, is hated and blamed for everything (which is a reality-conflicting lie). Those kind of self-serving lies happen no matter how you feel about your country. Therefore, I do not see how it was nationalism that warped that man into what he was.

Blogger Student in Blue September 08, 2015 9:16 PM  

I typed a ton. Sheesh. Had to split it up into two posts.

@133. VFM bot #188
A legitimate question, Blue, but I don't think it matters. Without the nationalism, the lies couldn't have gotten everyone juiced up enough to start killing. Without nationalism, the people running the show and peddling the lies couldn't have gotten into the positions of power where they could cause the holocausts they did.

An interesting argument.

The TV is being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban TV.
Talking is being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban talking.
Books are being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban books.

It's not the lie's fault, it's the medium's fault.

And with nationalism banned so hard that anything too remotely patriotic is looked at suspiciously, what do we have in place of it? I see nothing but apathy for our countries, which has allowed elected officials to do whatever they want because the voters don't care.

Only recently has that apathy started to be washed away.

Nationalism is based upon the artificial construct known as the State, and the State is responsible for most of the misery of humanity, right back to the dawn of civilization.

Incorrect. Sin is responsible for all of the misery of humanity, right back to the dawn of civilization.

If we're defining State as the government in charge of a nation... then you and I are talking about very different "nationalism"s.

Merriam-Webster: "a feeling that people have of being loyal to and proud of their country often with the belief that it is better and more important than other countries"

I've heard and met several people who had a bunch of pride in 'MURRICA and yet in the same breath mouthed disgust at the State. Is that not nationalism?
Wikipedia (shudder) says about nationalism: "Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related concept of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions."

So yes, that 'MURRICA supporter who detests their government sure sounds like a nationalist to me. Therefore, nationalism is not based on the State.

We need something better. We need to transcend the God of the State which has caused unlimited slavery, death, destruction, misery, poverty, and suffering.

There will never be a perfect solution as long as man remains sinful. At best we can aim for better, but if loving your nation doesn't work, how would apathy towards it or outright hatred towards it be better in any way?

Anonymous Adam1 September 08, 2015 9:51 PM  

@73,113. When the biz got started, I had no thought about it. I really didn`t care. Then I met a Sioux putting a flagpole on his front lawn. When I asked what for he replied,`` I`m gonna fly the Stars and Bars. If it has to come down in SC because 9 blacks were killed, then the Stars and Stripes should come down too given all the thousands of Indians murdered by the US Cav.`` Amen

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 10:06 PM  

136. karsten: "Nationalism protects against something far worse than "the State," which is an internationalist monostate. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, about "the State" if that state is ethnically and culturally homogeneous."

I agree.

What I object to is a scale of morality that makes that nation-state the bottom line. It certainly has great value, but it must be ordinate value.

Edmund Burke presses the claims of the "little platoons":

"To be attached to the subdivision, to love the little platoon we belong to in society, is the first principle (the germ as it were) of public affections. It is the first link in the series by which we proceed towards a love to our country, and to mankind."

Obviously from my perspective he leaves out a meaningful natural collective between the "country" and all "mankind," but what I like is the insistence that the greater association must not practically exclude the lesser associations and loyalties that lead up to it, or else it becomes tyrannical.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 10:20 PM  

144. Student in Blue: "And with nationalism banned so hard that anything too remotely patriotic is looked at suspiciously, what do we have in place of it? I see nothing but apathy for our countries, which has allowed elected officials to do whatever they want because the voters don't care."

I would never approve the suppression of national patriotism. That is bad, and has repercussions for the chain of natural loyalties, up to race (which is the loyalty above it) all the way down to natural families.

Anonymous Fp September 08, 2015 10:25 PM  

"Greed makes people start wars..."

Greed from the so-called "elite".

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 10:39 PM  

There's another objection to nationalism-with-nothing-over-it, and that is: for a lot of nations, all but the greater ones, it doesn't work.

Australia's solitary policy toward "all mankind" is practically meaningless. What matters (if anything) is our associations and what we add to our alliances. Those associations and alliances can have very unpleasant consequences, like Australians showing up in South Africa to kill Boers who never did us any harm, but nevertheless the idea that for a smaller nation to matter it must fit into a larger scheme of loyalties is correct.

I suggest that these wider loyalties should be natural, biologically real ones.

Anonymous The other robot September 08, 2015 10:42 PM  

Does she really think that the Holocaust started in 1918?

I was fifteen years old and my grandfather, a former Hungarian refugee from the Holocaust, was writing his life story. I was “the writer” in a family of doctors, so he came to me for this project, asking me to fix his broken English. Here’s an excerpt from the beginning of his book. It was 1918, and he and his brother were hiding in wine casks in a courtyard in Paks, Hungary, while the townspeople went on an anti-Jewish rampage.

Will they ever stop being perpetual victims?

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 10:50 PM  

148. Fp: "Greed from the so-called "elite"."

It's not Joe and Jane Average American lusting after the wealth of Whogivesadamnistan that's driving America's aggressive foreign policy, is it?

So I partly agree with you, in letting the masses off the hook. But...

I don't believe Debbie Wasserman Schultz's co-ethnics in the ruling class are motivated by shekels to the exclusion of love of one's own either. When they show great love of their nation-state Israel and their international nation (which means race) the Jewish people, I think that's genuine and admirable.

It's also a driver of war.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 08, 2015 10:51 PM  

The high water mark for American identity was the 1980s

Yeah, well, when Boomers start becoming the standard bearers of your civilization, it gets kinda hard to take all that much pride in it.


(hey, New York is no peach but at least they seem to keep more to themselves)

You don't realize most of the "Californians" other states complain about had parents who came from New York, New Jersey, or some other Northeast disaster (or Oklahoma). Their parents screwed up California, then the kids went somewhere else to carry on the family business.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 08, 2015 11:48 PM  

143. Student in Blue: "Biologically homogeneous populations, probably. Common ethnic genetic interests? Probably not if it's a biologically homogeneous population."

From the point of view of Frank Salter's account of ethnic genetic interests, this is a question with a numerical answer, even if we don't have the skill and foresight to supply it. The logic is: I would not die for my brother, but I would for two brothers, and for a determinate number of cousins, and so on.

From that point of view, the moral efficacy of doing for one's race, where there are millions of people to whom one is highly related, is magnificent. A tiny genetic difference between Englishmen and Dutchmen (for example) is a very poor reason to fight them. The common interests of all in peace and prosperity ought to prevail, as far as that can be arranged.

On the other hand, keeping non-whites out of the United Kingdom (for example), if necessary by fighting them, is a no-brainer. The clash of ethnic genetic interests is enormous and obvious. The land has a finite carrying capacity, and more for Achmed is less for Andy.

(More for the Frenchman Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte, on the other hand, is not necessarily less for Sven the Swede; first because being all white they are so genetically similar that Jean-Baptiste is 0.99-something-ridiculous of a Swede anyway, and second because Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte single-mindedly pursues Swedish interests: he walks across the border and is instantly a Swede; the difference in breed is too small for anyone to care about, including him, and the House of Bernadotte acts accordingly, generation after generation.)

143. Student in Blue: "With biologically homogeneous populations however? They'll find more minute differences. City folk versus rural folk. My family versus your family. Texans versus everyone else. Southron versus Yankees."

Sure. And from a perspective of in-group and out-group processes, a purely psychological perspective, all these differences are equally arbitrary, and equally worth fighting over or not worth fighting over.

But from an ethnic-genetic point of view, that is not so.

Blogger Kirk Parker September 08, 2015 11:54 PM  

@150: no, the writer's grandfather is talking about a little local pogrom in 1918 when he was only 6 years old. The grandfather was thus around 32 when the Germans took over Hungary in 1944.

Blogger Kirk Parker September 08, 2015 11:54 PM  

Were-Puppy @ 118:

Ahem: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Dispensationalism

(Took me to a wiki article with a very large section 1 on the content of the "movement".)

Blogger Student in Blue September 08, 2015 11:57 PM  

@151. Whitey McWhite
I don't believe Debbie Wasserman Schultz's co-ethnics in the ruling class are motivated by shekels to the exclusion of love of one's own either. When they show great love of their nation-state Israel and their international nation (which means race) the Jewish people, I think that's genuine and admirable.

It's also a driver of war.


Then they're greedy for other people's prosperity and want it for "themselves", so instead of becoming part of the group and contributing towards continuing the prosperity, they try and funnel it off to their own home country.

Immigrants need to subsume into the whole and *stop being immigrants*, or else they're being greedy and trying to get the best of both countries (with none of the downsides).

Blogger Student in Blue September 09, 2015 12:21 AM  

@153. Whitey McWhite
From the point of view of Frank Salter's account of ethnic genetic interests, this is a question with a numerical answer, even if we don't have the skill and foresight to supply it.[...]
On the other hand, keeping non-whites out of the United Kingdom (for example), if necessary by fighting them, is a no-brainer.[...]


On the third hand, simple numbers don't in real life account for solidarity of any stripe, even if everyone had the same genes. Location has a big impact on it too, as regions form and develop over time. Self-selection forms, languages drift. Humans are inherently tribal and maintain a relatively small "tribe" of people who they generally agree and run with. While Frank Salter's example rings true for the one or two brothers, eventually it reaches a point where the numbers lose meaning to the one doing the sacrificing.

One person gets murdered and it's a tragedy. Tens of thousands perish and it's a statistic.

And on the fourth hand (for we are in fact Goro, from Mortal Kombat) there are certainly behavioral differences between the different Europeans, and it's not just with culture. Even when transplanted to the US, the Irish loved to drink and fight, the Germans tended toward larger governments, Italians talked loudly in public and with their hands...

So it's not exactly true that Jean could waltz on over and fit in like a glove in Sweden, and no one would notice the difference -- but he would definitely integrate a lot better than someone from, say Nicaragua.
But from an ethnic-genetic point of view, that is not so.

From an ethnic-genetic point of view, said in-group/out-grouping is *not* arbitrary? Either I misunderstood your point or that does not seem to follow.

Blogger rho September 09, 2015 12:28 AM  

I don't think there is any real "nationalism," as it tends to be defined in the negative, i.e. "not those people, not those people, and definitely not those people." It's simply a matter of scale. I can care deeply for my family and friends, I can be concerned about my community, I can cherish my state, and I can respect my country. But in the end, my concerns lie mainly with my immediate circle--my tribe.

Nationalism is an attempt to do tribalism at a grander scale, and it largely works... for a time. Trump is interesting for many things, but giving American nationalism a solid go is the most interesting thing he does, at least to me. It may work, and he may even get elected (or at least nominated) because of it. It won't last forever, ultimately, because it's too weak a structure to support the weight of a nation the size of the U.S., but it certainly could prop it up long enough to re-establish some semblance of federalism.

In the end, at least for the U.S., federalism is the best solution to keep a cohesive nation. Lesbian soccer moms in Bed-Stuy have more in common with trailer football parents in Permian TX than either would care to admit, but they might as well be aliens from the moons of Jupiter to each other. Short of an invasion of actual magma aliens from Io, you'll be hard pressed to get those two on the same side of a badminton net. But they both probably agree that the other shouldn't get to dictate how they live their lives. And they can probably find mutual accommodation in how much tax they themselves should pay to the federal government.

Nate's point about Southern pride is relevant, but naive. He suffers from the same disease as most of us do in the Deep South--it's real nice here. Sure, it gets hot, but it gets cold too. Politeness is still a thing, and we'll be real sorry if it hurts your progressive feelings to hold the door open, but we'll do it anyway. We'll tell "your mama" jokes all night, but in the daylight your mama is our mama. Respect goes a long way, and disrespect can outlive a thousand suns.

And if it all goes to shit tomorrow, well, you can plant your foot and sprout another toe. Only the lazy and worthless starve or beg, and everybody knows it.

Anonymous Carl Selton III September 09, 2015 12:33 AM  

I'm disappointed your voice does not possess the timbre and cadence of a raving lunatic. You've hidden your nature well.

Blogger automatthew September 09, 2015 12:45 AM  

Damnit. Do I really have to go Tad-hunting at this hour?

Blogger automatthew September 09, 2015 12:47 AM  

rho,

You're going to die alone.

Unless you man the fuck up.

Sincerely,

automatthew

Blogger rho September 09, 2015 1:00 AM  

I take your words to heart, and I will endeavor to not die alone.

I hope to take out Adam Sandler, Blondie before "Heart of Glass", and Mies van der Rohe.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 1:10 AM  

156. Student in Blue: "Immigrants need to subsume into the whole and *stop being immigrants*, or else they're being greedy and trying to get the best of both countries (with none of the downsides)."

When it comes to whites among whites, that has often worked, with many instances at the highest levels. Frenchman Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte walks across the border and is a Swede; the Austrian woman Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna walks across the border and becomes French (even though the French resented her as a foreigner; she did not give them just cause to do so); Philip II of Spain, while he was married to Bloody Mary, was a sound and firm King of England, attending to the good order of the realm as well as any Englishman would have. And so on and on and on. Whatever the problems with the English royal family, nobody thinks that the root of the problem is that they are too German.

This works much better if the numbers are small and dispersed, of course.

Crossing racial lines is different.

Letting whites rule over non-whites ultimately did not work out to the satisfaction of non-whites. (I think it is very bad for the whites too.)

Letting non-whites rule over whites is a bad idea for the whites. It need not result in immediate disaster, but results seem poor. (Especially on the city level. The Americans have tested this a lot.)

Letting Jews rule over whites is a terrible idea for the whites. There are various reasons why this should be so, including the internationally networked character of the Jewish people, which is so resistant to the effects that small numbers and dispersion have on whites among whites; the aggressive mimicry of Jews, which defeats efforts to limit the growth of Jewish influence in the way that a Spanish court in London could be limited instinctively and naturally by the surrounding English; and the magnetic attraction of Jews to "apex predator" positions where they create wealth-appropriating systems of debt, monopoly and so on, thus enhancing their own power while bleeding out potentially competitive elites.

But theory is nothing compared to the practical argument. If you look at what the 80-85% Jewish Bolshevik government (according to Putin) did to Christian / non-Jewish Russians, or if you look at what covert Jewish rule has done for America, where it has turned a 90% white nation into one that is minority white in the youngest age cohorts, with a flourishing system of legal anti-white discrimination -- if you look at that, and say "heck yes; sign us up for Jewish rule too!" you are poorly informed, or dumb, or anti-white.

Bottom line: demanding that white immigrants subsume into the whole white nation is doable, though you may have to insist hard and long, and keep the immigrants few in numbers and well-dispersed, but demanding that non-white immigrants subsume into the whole white nation is at best a very bad idea, and demanding that Jews subsume into the whole white nation is a known non-starter with devastating consequences.

Sooner say that lions need to subsume into the whole herd of zebras, or ticks need to subsume into the whole dog, than that Jews need to subsume into the white whole.

Blogger automatthew September 09, 2015 1:18 AM  

May your sacrifice be successful. Don't forget to grab Yoko as you go.

Blogger rho September 09, 2015 1:26 AM  

Son, Yoko is long dead. I'm gigging fresher fish.

Seems you've a hook or two yourself. The key is to stretch the mouth out when you push and release.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 1:40 AM  

@157. Student in Blue: "While Frank Salter's example rings true for the one or two brothers, eventually it reaches a point where the numbers lose meaning to the one doing the sacrificing."

By their mutual loyalty around the world, the Jews constantly prove otherwise.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 09, 2015 1:42 AM  

@155 Kirk Parker

I know how to use Google. And also, after reading SJWAL, and a big blog post here, I have no trust in Wikipedia.


Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 1:46 AM  

157. Student in Blue: "And on the fourth hand (for we are in fact Goro, from Mortal Kombat) there are certainly behavioral differences between the different Europeans, and it's not just with culture. Even when transplanted to the US, the Irish loved to drink and fight, the Germans tended toward larger governments, Italians talked loudly in public and with their hands...

So it's not exactly true that Jean could waltz on over and fit in like a glove in Sweden, and no one would notice the difference -- but he would definitely integrate a lot better than someone from, say Nicaragua."

Agreed, with a reservation about us being Goro.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 2:13 AM  

143. Student in Blue: "With biologically homogeneous populations however? They'll find more minute differences. City folk versus rural folk. My family versus your family. Texans versus everyone else. Southron versus Yankees."

Whitey McWhite: "Sure. And from a perspective of in-group and out-group processes, a purely psychological perspective, all these differences are equally arbitrary, and equally worth fighting over or not worth fighting over.

But from an ethnic-genetic point of view, that is not so."

@157. Student in Blue: "From an ethnic-genetic point of view, said in-group/out-grouping is *not* arbitrary? Either I misunderstood your point or that does not seem to follow."

From an ethnic-genetic point of view it is not (always) arbitrary which in-groups are preferable (that is, which are actually in your ethnic-genetic interest), but when nothing but in-group / out-group processes produce the groupings, it's arbitrary which groups people actually identify with.

Example 1: you are white, and there are two basketball teams, both all black. The members of neither team will do anything good for you and your (white) relatives, ever. But you happen to spend a lot of time in the same work-place with a bunch of guys who regard Team A (or Team B) as their team. You are likely to wind up thinking of the same team as your team -- even though they aren't, and would tell you so emphatically if you ever met them. That's an example of a purely arbitrary grouping produced by a psychological process.

Example 2: you are white, and you grow up in a future Texas which is 90% Mestizo and has sufficient anti-white laws, written and unwritten, to guarantee that the future of Texas will eventually be 0% white. But, due to the same sorts of psychological processes that make you pick one basketball team over the other, your attitude is: "Texans versus everyone else."

From a psychological point of view, one choice is as arbitrary as another, and no better and worse than another. From an ethnic-genetic point of view the first example's choice really doesn't matter, but the second one is a real choice with grave consequences.

Contrary to social justice warrior thinking, your real group interests are not merely a consequence of whom or what you choose to identify as and with. Like Timothy Treadwell, you can choose to identify with the bears, and that is as arbitrary as anything can be. But genetically, which is to say in reality, you are not a bear, and your real interests are not bear interests.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 2:41 AM  

To anyone: do you think there's a basic difference in attitude between people like Greg Johnson and Vox Day, who were libertarian before they addressed modern identity politics, and people like me whose influences were conservative. (Either explicitly so, with Edmund Burke, or implicitly, with pre-Christian thinkers.) Is there a definite stamp that the (former) libertarians continue to have, even as they address problems that according to their system were not supposed to exist?

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 09, 2015 2:50 AM  

You can define nationalism as a negative if you like, but it aint necesarily so.

It is a bit like the de-segregation arguments of the 60's: the shriekers and fainters club defined racism as a negative response to difference, and pointed to the clustering of the different ethnicities as proof positive they are racists.

(Of course, the excluded black people from even the possibility of being racist, so it was all whitey's fault. Nothing new or interesting there.)

But Stephen Wolfram demonstrated irrefutably that all it takes for such clustering to occur is the existence of a simple preference to not be alone of your kind, to have *some* neighbours who are like you.

And it is as plain as day that *every* single one of us has such a positive preference.

I'm not a nationalist in the usual sense, since I have no particular sentiment for the modern nation-state. I'm a Menckenist, believng that every sane and decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. However, I am a nationalist in the "Vox Day-an" sense, and in the biblical sense.

As to the first, I agree with Vox that nations must have borders at which laws apply, and nations must have laws which are applied, or else there is no nation any longer.

As to the second, I am very much aware of the ancient hebrew languages conventions regarding the use of repetition so that, for example, when you read a phrase like "to all nations, kindreds (today we would say "tribes"), tongues, and peoples" it is not talking about a list of four different things but four ways of saying essentially the same thing.

Nations ARE tribes. At least, they WERE until very recently, and the presumption that modern political conveniences are immutable and irreversible is naive, stupid, ignorant and arrogant; four different things but which will inevitably produce one result - destruction.

Blogger Blue Mountain Ranger September 09, 2015 4:23 AM  

I tried to find the Martin van Creveld article on immigration being a kind of warfare, that you, Vox talked about, but without any luck. Can anyone throw me a link?

Anonymous VD September 09, 2015 4:38 AM  

It will be in RIDING THE RED HORSE Vol. 2

Anonymous George of the Jungle September 09, 2015 5:49 AM  

I think this thread has devolved into word salad, especially Whitey McWhite and the related responses.

Vox's interview and his answers are clear and concise, but do any of you know what you are talking about? It doesn't look like it to me. I suggest this thread be stopped on account of rain.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 5:55 AM  

OK.

Blogger bob k. mando September 09, 2015 6:49 AM  

27. Crude September 08, 2015 9:24 AM
a lot of establishment supporters trying to talk about how Trump and his supporters aren't REAL Republicans or REAL conservatives.



as i pointed out when Trump first got in, there are LOTS of legitimate policy statements and concerns ( gun control, abortion, etc ) that a Reagan Republican could critique Trump on ...

but almost NO ONE from the Republican side has made a serious attack on Trump from one of those directions.

instead, we get idiotic Tone Policing and predictions that Trump is going to blow *himself* up Real Soon Now.

one of the few who has actually made the "No True Conservative" attack on Trump is ... Jeb motherfucking Bush?

kiss my ass, you little bitch.

the day Jeb Bush ( or McCain or McConnell or Boehner ) succeeds in instructing me in Conservatism is the day i eat a shotgun. every one of these fools should be a registered Democrat.


28. James Dixon September 08, 2015 9:27 AM
And this is West Virginia, which fought on the other side.



Confederate flags are everywhere. i'm seeing them in WI ( the Republican Party was founded here ), IN, MI, PA, etc.



34. VD September 08, 2015 9:37 AM
They are MASSIVELY underrepresented


this.

the Hispanic population is already as large or larger than the Negro population ... but Hispanics are nowhere near as electorally successful as Blacks.

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states/hispanic-or-latino-population-percentage#map

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states/black-population-percentage#map

Blogger skiballa September 09, 2015 7:09 AM  

"Confederate flags are everywhere. i'm seeing them in WI ( the Republican Party was founded here ), IN, MI, PA, etc."

Add Western Massachusetts to your list, though I'd rather they dust off the Massachusetts Navy Ensign.

Blogger Gaisereiks Gaisericus September 09, 2015 8:15 AM  

Add Western Massachusetts to your list, though I'd rather they dust off the Massachusetts Navy Ensign.

I'm not seeing them "everywhere" in the Michigan SSR, but I did see a few trucks driving around town with them on the day of the so-called ban. Of course, the Michigan SSR is as far from feeling any sense of ethnic southern pride as you can get, too.

Blogger Nate September 09, 2015 8:44 AM  

"And this is West Virginia, which fought on the other side."

actually... the Army of Virginia was full of men from that part of the state. The only ones left over there were the cowards.

Which is why its such a shit hole now.

Blogger Student in Blue September 09, 2015 9:17 AM  

@George of the Jungle
It doesn't look like it to me. I suggest this thread be stopped on account of rain.

Just because you, someone not even taking part, can't follow the conversation doesn't mean it's pointless word salad.

Blogger RasseKrieger September 09, 2015 9:33 AM  

Vox is both right and wrong on the issue of identity. He is right about Americans not having an identity and do not really claim a "white" identity. But this is true NOT because white identity and other American identities are artificial. It is simply because our leaders have never wanted the masses to partake in identities. Our countries culture has always been neutral or secular when it comes to identity. Our leaders could have easily promoted a romantic European identity amongst the masses. And everyone white person would feel some relation to it. European and white identity has ALWAYS been for the American AND European Elite. European Elites are not guided by the same nationalist identities as the masses. European Elites have always known they are all related. Royalty has always had arranged marriages not based on nationalist identity but white identity. Even the Aryanism of the Nazis was about white identity NOT nationalist identity. European anthropologists, archeaologists, historians, language professors, eugenics leaders, etc were and have always been guided by white identity NOT nationalist identity. The bottom line is that white identity IS NOT ARTIFICIAL. And it may take some time to reconfigure the identity boundaries, but white identity makes sense and it will become the identity of the future.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 10:20 AM  

180. RasseKrieger: "The bottom line is that white identity IS NOT ARTIFICIAL. And it may take some time to reconfigure the identity boundaries, but white identity makes sense and it will become the identity of the future."

I agree with that and most of the points that led you to this conclusion.

I question this:

180. RasseKrieger: "... our leaders have never wanted the masses to partake in identities. Our countries culture has always been neutral or secular when it comes to identity."

Then why did the American government codify the Hispanic identity from the 1970 census on?

Blogger RasseKrieger September 09, 2015 10:55 AM  

Correction Country's (U.S.) not countries sorry

The same reason they had the "one drop rule" before that. Eurocentrism? They wanted to separate Europeans from non-Europeans.

The US could have forged a national identity like Mexico or Brazil. I met many Mexicans who didnt even know they are Native Americans. Its hilarious. I would rather identify by race then nationality.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 09, 2015 11:05 AM  

183. RasseKrieger: "I would rather identify by race then nationality."

Me too. More and more I prefer what's real to "identity" that's created by propaganda and can be taken away by propaganda.

Blogger RasseKrieger September 09, 2015 11:11 AM  

Are census bureau categories identities? If Hispanics take it on as an identity i still dont think its necessarily artificial it just new and unique to the US. Identities in the US are political. Similar to each nation in the EU

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 09, 2015 12:08 PM  

@ #144, Student in Blue:

I said: Without the nationalism, the lies couldn't have gotten everyone juiced up enough to start killing. Without nationalism, the people running the show and peddling the lies couldn't have gotten into the positions of power where they could cause the holocausts they did.

Student in Blue then said: An interesting argument. The TV is being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban TV. Talking is being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban talking. Books are being used to push lies. Therefore, we must ban books.

It's not the lie's fault, it's the medium's fault. And with nationalism banned so hard that anything too remotely patriotic is looked at suspiciously, what do we have in place of it?


Calm down Blue guy. I didn't make any of those statements, and you didn't make reasonable extrapolations of what I did say (you make something of an inductive LEAP, as a matter of fact).

My point still remains: We need to find or create or notice or announce or build...something better, something more useful, something healthier, something more beneficial than mere nationalism, which is based upon statism. An overweening fealty to one Government or another causes problems. Big ones, as the 20th century proved..

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 09, 2015 12:23 PM  

I am a nationalist in the "Vox Day-an" sense, and in the biblical sense...I agree with Vox that nations must have borders at which laws apply, and nations must have laws which are applied, or else there is no nation any longer.

The latter does not follow from the former, and does not equal "nationalism". I advocate moving beyond nationalism because it can cause great harm and is abased on statism; but I agree that "nations must have borders at which laws apply, and nations must have laws which are applied."

To believe those things is not to be a "nationalist".

Blogger skiballa September 09, 2015 12:47 PM  

@178

Gaisereiks, I doubt any feeling of shared identity here either, it's probably to piss off the more liberal types that abound in these parts, which is why I'd rather see the Massachusetts Navy Ensign.

Blogger BoysMom September 09, 2015 3:30 PM  

@62
We call them Californicators.

Anonymous Anonymous September 09, 2015 5:56 PM  

I've given the interview a bit of thought and I think Vox is correct in his assessment, however I think that is in reference to an explicit white identity. I believe there is an implicit white identity through millenia of common culture, faith, heritage, and proximity. That is exampled when you notice that large numbers of white immigrants across Europe are seen with less controversy than an equal number of non-whites

Anonymous Discard September 09, 2015 11:25 PM  

Given the adverse response that most Whites have towards large numbers of non-Whites moving in, I'd say there is a de facto White identity, whether it can be precisely defined or not.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 10, 2015 2:30 AM  

191. Discard: "Given the adverse response that most Whites have towards large numbers of non-Whites moving in, I'd say there is a de facto White identity, whether it can be precisely defined or not."

Right.

The problems are that confident and explicit self-identification as white is penalized, the war against whites is massively incentivized, and we live surrounded by anti-white propaganda. These things makes it hard for white people to go from implicit whiteness to explicit white identity including the defense of collective white interests.

Still, white identity is the truth, based on facts. It's what we can't abandon and continue to exist, unlike unlike identities such as Lombardian, Capuan, and Florentine. It's what's under attack. And it's also what we will come to believe and defend.

Otherwise, as Pris the replicant said: "then we're stupid, and we'll die."

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 10, 2015 2:41 AM  

@186. VFM bot #188: "My point still remains: We need to find or create or notice or announce or build...something better..."

I'm sympathetic to that.

There are limited choices, though.

You can recognize a reality, or build on the basis of propaganda. But we don't own the propaganda mills.

You can keep it simple, at essence, or go for sophisticated and only for the highly indoctrinated. But we don't own academia.

It can be a state thing (like governments defining Australia as "a nation of immigrants" and Australian identity as inherently "multicultural"), or it can be a non-state thing. But we don't own the state -- anywhere, in any white country.

It can be something that addresses our shared interest and predicament around the world, as whites are pressed by policies tending to end us all, or it can be something that sets us against each other (like the Irish versus the English), or something that just ignores the pressure we are under.

It can be the sort of thing that you can't abandon, if it is under attack, otherwise survival through the generations is not an option. Or it can be a lifestyle or and "image" thing that you could abandon or allow to be redefined away, the way "conservatism" has largely been redefined away.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 10, 2015 2:51 AM  

191. Discard: "Given the adverse response that most Whites have towards large numbers of non-Whites moving in, I'd say there is a de facto White identity, whether it can be precisely defined or not."

The problems are that self-identification as white is heavily penalized, the war against whites is massively incentivized, and we live surrounded by anti-white propaganda. All this makes it hard for white people to go from implicit whiteness to explicit white identity with collective white interests.

Still, white identity is the truth, based on facts. It's what we can't abandon and continue to exist, unlike unlike identities such as Lombardian, Capuan, and Florentine. It's what's under attack. And it's also what we will come to believe and defend.

Otherwise, as Pris the replicant said: "then we're stupid, and we'll die."

Anonymous Discard September 10, 2015 5:42 AM  

Whitey McWhite: The truth is penalized, but people still know it's the truth. That's why an old rude man with very bad hair and no political experience is leading the race for the GOP nomination, and is even getting Democrat support. Whites are getting in touch with their inner Klansman.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 10, 2015 6:36 AM  

Discard: I hope we win.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 10, 2015 6:55 AM  

Whites are getting in touch with their inner Klansman.

Nah. Bad quip. No one acts like that unless they're stupid. Concern for and support of one's own race or bio-group doesn't mandate or include hatred of other groups. And to the extent that Klansmen are neo-Nazi, they're really stupid, for supporting a form of leftism, i.e. national socialism.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 10, 2015 7:09 AM  

The problems are that self-identification as white is heavily penalized, the war against whites is massively incentivized, and we live surrounded by anti-white propaganda. All this makes it hard for white people to go from implicit whiteness to explicit white identity with collective white interests.

So? Learn from those who have done it and continue to do it. How have the Jews done it, dispersed across the world as they have been? How do the Han Chinese do it, similarly dispersed? How do Hispanics do it, such as La Raza ('the Race"), with their explicit admonitions to "improve the Race"?

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 10, 2015 10:31 AM  

198. VFM bot #188: good questions. That's what got Kevin MacDonald wondering: how do successful diaspora peoples do that? The answer turned out to be hard to imitate, complicated, and disturbing in its implications for the host peoples, who can wind up as out-groups to a clever, highly ethnocentric and exploitative over-class.

Kevin MacDonald (2002-06-06). A People That Shall Dwell Alone: Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy, with Diaspora Peoples. iUniverse.

Anonymous Discard September 10, 2015 8:03 PM  

VFM bot #188: "Inner Klansman" is a semi-jest, but only semi. I don't hate Blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, Jews or homos. I see and work with some or all of them every day. But as things continue to deteriorate, it won't matter whether I know a few good ones or not.

You ask how Jews, Chinese, and La Raza have defended their racial interests. Hostility, if not outright hatred of outsiders is a big part of it. Jewish attitudes to the well-being of their non-Jewish neighbors allow them to single-mindedly ask the same question on every issue: Is it good for the Jews? Chinese are famously racist, and don't care who knows it. La Raza defends its racial interests by stealing from Whites and killing Blacks.

Support for your own group does not, in theory, mandate hatred of others, but in practice, it observably helps.

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