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Friday, September 25, 2015

Mailvox: get your syllogisms straight

TB goes awry in the second step:
This post (which was about IQ, part of a larger issue of Civilization) seemed to me to be about the very foundation of the Civilization discussion.

1. Genetics and culture are inseparable,
2. Only British genetics can grasp and enact Western Civilization,
3. The U.S. cannot allow a drop below a certain level of British derived population.

I understand that civilization requires trade-offs in education, economics, religion, and other systems. It just seems that the Civilization you describe was doomed the very moment it started. I believe the Constitution allows the nation to be hardier than this hot house flower being described.
2. is false. The U.S. Constitution is not synonymous with Western civilization. Western civilization is hardier than the U.S. Constitution, which was not only written by and for Englishmen, but is only understood correctly by them and those who have sufficiently adopted their culture.

More than that, it was only written for them and their descendants and was never intended to apply to anyone else except some of the German colonists who successfully grasped, accepted, and supported their unusual limited government philosophy.

The descendants of the countries who came later, the Irish, the Italians, the later Germans, the Scandinavians, the Jews, and the Hispanics are not the posterity of the Founding Fathers. It should be no surprise that they have not successfully defended a philosophy they have never accepted or understood nor respectfully abided by a document that was never written for them.

And my rebuttal to those who would argue is very simple and straightforward. Look around you. Do you see anything that is even remotely respectful of the concepts put forth in the U.S. Constitution?

Labels: , ,

116 Comments:

Blogger Nate September 25, 2015 12:48 PM  

"And my rebuttal to those who would argue is very simple and straightforward. Look around you. Do you see anything that is even remotely respectful of the concepts put forth in the U.S. Constitution? "

well no.

But it doesn't appear the Britts have done any better defending the concept of common law they created either.

no population is immune to this problem over time. I doubt you could argue the britts did any better than the US did... and they didn't have near the immigration.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 12:57 PM  

Western Civilization and Culture were founded and started by the Greeks and the Romans. The American Classicist Edith Hamilton, along with many other classicists start Western Culture and Civilization with the Greeks and the Romans. Civilization is about Order. Order undergirds civilization. The Gaelic and Teutonic tribes all had culture but not civilization. Rome passed Western Civilization into the Teutonic and Gaelic tribes.

It is the Graeco-Roman heritage that forms the basis of Western Civ. VD is right in that #2 is definitely wrong. The French, The Spanish, the Germans and the Scandanavians all had Western Culture and Civilization before the American and French Revolutions.

Blogger Student in Blue September 25, 2015 12:58 PM  

Then again Nate, we also know that not all Brit is the same. It's very plausible that the Brits that self-selectingly came over to Americas were the naturally independence-minded individuals that *could* defend the concepts in the U.S. Constitution -- whereas the Brits left behind were *not*.

Blogger Patrick Kelly September 25, 2015 1:03 PM  

The Brits didn't do any better than US for the same reason: they applied their "constitution" (I know, they don't have one quite like we do, but this would encompass the founding political philosophies, cultures, and laws of their civilization) equally to British and those who, as Vox put it, "have never accepted or understood nor respectfully abided by a document (concepts - pk) that was never written for them.

Expansion of the voting franchise to those who would use it to destroy the very foundations of civilization underneath them doesn't help much either.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz September 25, 2015 1:06 PM  

"those who have sufficiently adopted their culture."

Those who can sufficiently adopt the culture have the requisite genetics to do so. Others can be trained like puppies, but still cannot fully internalize it. The examples are as Vox noted.

The English failure to defend their roots cannot be equated to the US. Note that those who populated the US were typically self selected, and therefore were different even from standard English genetics. Also consider the effect of war on English genetics, including significant depopulation of aristocratic classes in the first part of the 20th century. The decline of aristocracy also caused the decline of English culture.

People who are self-selected to enter a hostile and unknown environment have a greater ability to co-operate and respect each other than a teeming mass of a population that generally despises other people in that population. Homogeneous populations generally can avoid most of those triggers, and while it can be a racial thing, it is also vitally a cultural thing. If your neighbor is not like you in skin color, but barbecues like you, works like you, knows the same history, and you know that they'll help you out in a pinch? You share a common culture and you know that your neighbor is going to be like you and not like some foreign thug that will eat you for food in a crisis.

And that's going to be the crux of the forthcoming violence...

The US is returning to that mean.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz September 25, 2015 1:12 PM  

Naturally it appears the minds of Vox readers run in the same directions....

Two types of civilizations are also highlighted. Those civilizations that develop hierarchies in order to transmit culture and civilization in an r-selected manner, and then those civilizations that flee a parent country and establish a co-operative non-hierarchical civilization in a K-selected manner.

I'm going to suspect that the inevitable cycle is that the latter transforms into the former over time due to the increase in r-selected populations. It would then take an extensive dieback of r-selected individuals to allow K-selected culture to return to the fore.

One might also postulate that aristocracy is a K-selected survival mechanism in a sea of r-selected populations.

Blogger Orville September 25, 2015 1:13 PM  

@3 Then again Nate, we also know that not all Brit is the same. It's very plausible that the Brits that self-selectingly came over to Americas were the naturally independence-minded individuals that *could* defend the concepts in the U.S. Constitution -- whereas the Brits left behind were *not*.

This was true of my family in 1857, and they were landowners and fairly well off, yet two brothers sought better opportunities in the US.

Blogger Orville September 25, 2015 1:18 PM  

I'd also add a fourth bullet of spiritual decay.

Blogger Anonymous Robot September 25, 2015 1:31 PM  

Related to this, it is amusing that this guy believes in the power of magic pixie dust or something.

That is, transforming under-class black youngsters into dutiful scholars is unreachable but we may be able to civilize them just as millions of Europeans were “domesticated” between the 11th and 20th century (see Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature, Chapter 3).

What he doesn't seem to understand is that it was crucifixion and hanging that caused the domestication. Removing the most violent over a long period of time and the fact that violence is highly heritable.

Blogger pyrrhus September 25, 2015 1:32 PM  

Genetics and culture are inseparable because you cannot have high culture without high intelligence, but not in any other way. And intelligence is created by overcoming difficult, low temperature environments. Period.

Blogger Maple Curtain September 25, 2015 1:48 PM  

@10: I would tend to agree that "intelligence is created by overcoming difficult, low temperature environments."

So how does one explain the amazing technological advances of the Eskimo/Inuit?

OpenID karsten0 September 25, 2015 1:51 PM  

"Genetics and culture are inseparable because you cannot have high culture without high intelligence, but not in any other way."
It's not solely intelligence; I might even argue that it's not primarily intelligence.

It's temperament.

And that is largely the product of genetics (or, to use the older term, race).

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 2:03 PM  

@2. W.LindsayWheeler

There were lessons learned from the Greeks and the Romans, and their pagan symbols and idols, but the "Republic of Republics" (irrespective of the word republic itself) was not created with Roman Civil law in mind. It was supposedly establish based on individual rights, inherent and inviolable. But these uSA have been moved away from individual rights slowly towards the idea that the government grants civil rights ... and can take them away at will.
I am Hispanic (puertorrican) and was a fish out of the water back in PR, politically speaking. I moved to Texas (not New Jersey or New York, etc.) and stayed.
Leaving the Articles of Confederation was a mistake. Trying to limit the FedGov to the Constitution is a huge step forward but the Constitution of 1787 was the beginning of the end. We seeing the running out of the capital built by our predecessors.

Blogger Geoff September 25, 2015 2:03 PM  

tempermant...is largely the product of genetics (or, to use the older term, race).

The difference in average EQ among races is likely even more stark than IQ.

Blogger jay c September 25, 2015 2:08 PM  

For no reason at all: My Hessian Carper ancestors were third-generation Americans when they fought in the American Revolution and received land grants from old George in the Shenandoah.

Blogger Matamoros September 25, 2015 2:11 PM  

@2 - Western Civilization and Culture were founded and started by the Greeks and the Romans.

Western Civilization is not synonymous with Classical Civilization (Greece and then Rome).

Western Civilization is the product of the Catholic Church. It did not develop in Eastern Europe and Russia because of the schism by the Orthodox, which never attained the heights of the High Middle Ages either in culture or learning.

See Thomas Woods, “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization” for a brief synopsis in this regard.

The Church pulled learning from Classical civilization, corrected its errors, and build scholasticism, the university system, etc. Classical Civ is only a building block the Church used, not the beginning or extension of Western Civ.

The Catholic Church, unlike all other religions (insofar as I’m aware) recognizes the need to progress and gain knowledge. In this regard read Rodney Stark. She built Western Civ, capitalism, limited government, and all other things that we today correctly regard as good.

As her influence has declined, so has Western Civilization.

Blogger Tim_W_Burke September 25, 2015 2:20 PM  

I appreciate the clarification. Thanks!

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 25, 2015 2:20 PM  

@16: Russia for all of the centuries prior to the October Revolution might take exception to your characterization of them as not part of "Western civilization." As would all of the more easterly territories of the former Austrian Empire.

Blogger kudzu bob September 25, 2015 2:20 PM  

@11

So how does one explain the amazing technological advances of the Eskimo/Inuit?

For the same reason that you can make an atom bomb with nine pounds of plutonium but not with nine ounces. The Eskimo gene pool was just too small.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 2:23 PM  

Oh, boy! How can the Catholic Church be the creator of Western Civilization when it was Plato who formed the intellectual formation of Christianity? I point to Prof. Jerry Dell Ehrlich's Plato's Gift to Christianity.

The Church adopted the Roman system throughout the Meditereanean AND spread it Northwards. Roman civilization was already in Gaul, in Spain, in Britain. The Church didn't create civil law, Roman Civil Law was used by everybody and by the Church. Classical Civilization IS synonymous with Western Civilization: I point to The Sparta-Rome-Christendom Continuum.

The Sabines, Doric Greeks, a colony from Lacedaemonia, influenced Rome from the very beginning. Roman military dress was in some ways copied from the Spartans. The Mixed government of Sparta, was copied in Rome and then passed into Western Civilization! The Roman Republic is a copy of the Spartan Republic. The upper house of Sparta being the Gerousia, Old Men, and the Roman upper house, being called Senatus, Old Men. Plutarch said many Roman institutions came from Sparta due to the Sabine influence.

America is in no way connected to Western Culture or Western Civilization. None whatsoever.

Blogger Nate September 25, 2015 2:43 PM  

Oh Lord Jesus.... Its Team Catholic Vs Wheeler.

A battle of the window licking mongoloids if ever there was one.

Blogger Doom September 25, 2015 2:47 PM  

"Do you see anything that is even remotely respectful of the concepts put forth in the U.S. Constitution?"

No, not much, but that doesn't make you correct. Whatever the truth, of the other matters you suggest, the main reason the constitution and what it entails is under assault is because women were never a part of the equation. As for men, only some men, the stronger, faster, smarter, were ever on that page. By diluting the voting population with the weakest and most risk adverse (women), you have destroyed all the elements and institutions which supported these things of which you and that contract, along with the bill of rights, propose. It has nothing to do with more, or less, foreigners. Those foreigners, to some larger degree, came here to get rich, or at least figure out how to get rich.

Oh, don't even tell me that didn't work! Our poorest, for generations, have been better off than some the richest in other lands! Our fat are porkers, pure porcine beasts! We are, even in our greatly fallen state, a land of milk and honey. Until you remove women from the system, the good governing part of the population is not enough to steer the ship aright.

OpenID karsten0 September 25, 2015 2:59 PM  

"The difference in average EQ among races is likely even more stark than IQ."

Undoubtedly true (though I don't know enough about the concept of EQ to speculate as to how 360-degree a picture of temperament it measures).

But to the idea of temperament being a more significant factor than mere intelligence (intelligence being just one factor in temperament, and possibly not even the most significant factor), I need hardly point out that someone with a high IQ but corrosive inclinations could, far from a civilization-builder, be nothing but a very clever parasite, or worse, an ultra-crafty cancer cell.

Blogger Ken September 25, 2015 3:06 PM  

Interesting! My family was either Scotch/Irish or German/Jew immigrants. There is a definite and noticeable trend towards socialism, except among the family members that served in the military for 5 or more years.

The longer they served, the more they appreciated limited government and constitutional freedom.

I don't know if that was merely a trend from my family or if it has greater reaching implications regarding integrating an immigrant (or descendant of immigrants) into American culture.

Blogger CarpeOro September 25, 2015 3:23 PM  

"I don't know if that was merely a trend from my family or if it has greater reaching implications regarding integrating an immigrant (or descendant of immigrants) into American culture."

The more exposure you have to Uncle Sugar doing things for you, if you have any real competence doing for your self, the more you want to do it for your self.

OpenID corvinus333 September 25, 2015 3:25 PM  

So how does one explain the amazing technological advances of the Eskimo/Inuit?

@11 Maple Curtain
Or lack thereof, you mean? Low population density and a relative unavailability of food. You can't build technology when you're constantly using up all your energy looking for seals and polar bears to eat.

Their language is interesting, though. It looks like it could be distantly related to Finnish.

Blogger Student in Blue September 25, 2015 3:25 PM  

I need hardly point out that someone with a high IQ but corrosive inclinations could, far from a civilization-builder, be nothing but a very clever parasite, or worse, an ultra-crafty cancer cell.

*cough, cough*

*COUGH, COUGH*

Blogger automatthew VFM 0062 September 25, 2015 3:31 PM  

COOOOOOOOOOOOOUGHS.

Blogger Student in Blue September 25, 2015 3:33 PM  

Thanks for the chuckle, automatthew.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 3:34 PM  

Here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson: liberalism as its ethos which is embodied in the Bill of Rights.136 They rejected much of the classical learning and wisdom necessary for the proper functioning of a republic. 116 (For instance, Thomas Jefferson responding to a letter, wrote, "the introduction of the new principle of representative democracy has rendered useless almost everything written before on the structure of government; and, in a great measure, relieves our regret, if the political writings of Aristotle or of any other ancient, have been lost, or are unfaithfully rendered or explained to us."

Jefferson was more or less the architect of the American Revolution. He says right here they didn't give a rat's ass about what the Classical heritage teaches. Right there is a break between the American Revolution and Western Civilization. Though he liked Plutarch and bought some twenty copies of Plutarch to pass around to his buddies, Jefferson was the son of the Atheist/Deist Enlightenment. He was thoroughly immersed in the Enlightenment which was a rejection of Christendom which was Western Culture and Western Civilization.

Furthermore, he attended Masonic and Rosicrucian meetings and his library included works of these movement with his annotations in the margins of these books. Masonry and Rosicrucianism are based on the Hermetic Tradition and the Kabbala. All of it Eastern. Not Western. Americanism is not a part of Western Culture or Civilization.

Blogger Maple Curtain September 25, 2015 3:36 PM  

@19, @26: Thanks for your replies.

"Low population density and a relative unavailability of food."

I was being facetious, but they had to have been relatively resourceful to survive up there at all.

However, there's the question of why they were the groups pushed up so far were there were next-to-no readily exploited resources.

Anyway, the contrast to the English, island-nation, enough people, reasonable resources, no constant enemy threat, is interesting.

But, @10's point seems sound, so we only have to wait a millennium or two for the mohammadeans to evolve under the harsh northern conditions and, then, we can all sing Kumbaya together, is that right?

Blogger Student in Blue September 25, 2015 3:42 PM  

But, @10's point seems sound, so we only have to wait a millennium or two for the mohammadeans to evolve under the harsh northern conditions and, then, we can all sing Kumbaya together, is that right?

Until the point where they'd be invaded by barbaric hordes from Asia Minor, that is.

Blogger Edward Isaacs September 25, 2015 3:51 PM  

This is more a problem with written constitutions than with immigration. There are other ways to existentially threaten an existing culture than just by importing outsiders. Industrial revolutions, for one.

A written constitution has sovereignty only to the degree that the human sovereign(s) responsible for executing it are willing and able do so faithfully. But no constitution, however cleverly written, can guarantee that it will always have people willing and able to faithfully execute its laws.

On a slightly different topic, I'd ask whether an English philosophy, or a written constitution based upon it, that didn't even have enough backbone to defend itself from invasion and corruption from outside can possibly be correct enough to be worth defending.

Blogger rumpole5 September 25, 2015 3:58 PM  

I've realized for some time that almost all countries outside of the former British Empire are seriously flawed. The madness going on in continental Europe confirms that conclusion. Europeans are, basically, -- NUTS! We who are fortunate enough to live under the blessings of Magna Carta, the English commonlaw, and the common rights of Englishmen should take all of the wierd notions of Rousseau, Robespierre, Marx, Nietzsche, Lenin, and other assorted European wacko-birds, and throw them on the ash heap where they belong.

Blogger Maple Curtain September 25, 2015 4:02 PM  

@33: @22's point about female suffrage has to be the beginning of the conversation.

Apparently, the English-speaking peoples were sufficiently advanced by the 1910s that the men of those societies could begin the process of destroying those societies by granting women full power over the appropriation of societal resources, and the making of laws.

Am I wrong?

We're in the middle of another soccer-mom, let's loot the public treasury election here in Canada, and the U.S. has those elections on a 2-year cycle.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 4:30 PM  

Women's Suffrage came out of the Socialist/Communist/Progrressive camps. Karl Marx, who is Jewish, called for the women's rights. Also you have to figure in J. S. Mill and his book, The Subjection of Women. J. S. Mill was an Atheist. In 1880, there were over 200 communist and socialist organizations in America. It is they who spread the message that women should vote. Not Christianity.

Our modern world is the creation of Atheists and the Jewish ideology of International Socialism. Atheists have a inner hatred.They hate Christianity and so they must promote the opposite of Christianity. What does Christianity teach? That women are to be under the leadership of Men. Leadership of Men is a Christian/Western teaching. English men did not rise up one day and give women the vote. The concept was laid down by atheists and socialists.

In order to restore Western Culture and Civ,, it would be necessary to strip women of their right to vote. They never had that in the first place.

Blogger Eraser September 25, 2015 4:42 PM  

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems not even Englishmen are able to understand the concepts of limited government and fundamental rights anymore.

By 2001 England was still 91% white and 87% British [Wikipedia] and it is exactly the opposite of those concepts: huge welfare state, surveillance, eavesdropping, highly restricted gun ownership, criminalization of self-defense, etc.

Why invoke race to explain something that has a simpler explanation? Socialism is popular in the Western World and increasing the size of government is easy in a democracy (the benefits are concentrated and the opposition is diffuse).

Blogger Salt September 25, 2015 4:57 PM  

Do you see anything that is even remotely respectful of the concepts put forth in the U.S. Constitution?

The forseeable problem Jefferson understood. That's why he uttered the, "Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.”

The tree died.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis September 25, 2015 5:03 PM  

Jefferson was more or less the architect of the American Revolution. He says right here they didn't give a rat's ass about what the Classical heritage teaches. Right there is a break between the American Revolution and Western Civilization. Though he liked Plutarch and bought some twenty copies of Plutarch to pass around to his buddies, Jefferson was the son of the Atheist/Deist Enlightenment. He was thoroughly immersed in the Enlightenment which was a rejection of Christendom which was Western Culture and Western Civilization.

Furthermore, he attended Masonic and Rosicrucian meetings and his library included works of these movement with his annotations in the margins of these books. Masonry and Rosicrucianism are based on the Hermetic Tradition and the Kabbala. All of it Eastern. Not Western. Americanism is not a part of Western Culture or Civilization.


I don't think your making a valid argument at all. Your picking one of the founder fathers and outright making erroneous claims, Jefferson was heavily influenced by the great Roman and Greek philosophers and when he wrote up his plans for a public school system for the Commonwealth of Virginia he stipulated that Grecian, Roman, European and American history would be taught as they he considered them principal foundations of the society he wanted to create. Based on that error alone I can't take anything else written seriously.

Blogger Salt September 25, 2015 5:15 PM  

#39 I didn't even need to scroll up to know that was Wheeler.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 5:19 PM  

Machiavelli was an Atheist. He is also known as the Father of **Modern** Republicanism. Join what Jefferson said and what Machiavelli says here:

“He who desires or wishes to reform the condition of a city and wishes that it be accepted and that it be able to maintain itself to everyone's satisfaction is forced to retain at least the shadow of ancient modes so that it might seem to the people that order has not changed—though, in fact, the new orders are completely alien to those of the past. For the universality of men feed as much on appearance as on reality {ed. note: this is Plato’s cave}: indeed, in many cases, they are moved more by the things which seem than by those which are....And this much should be observed by all who wish to eliminate an ancient way of life (un antico vivere) in a city and reduce it to a new and free way of life (ridurla a uno vivere nuovo e libero): one ought, since new things alter the minds of men, to see to it that these alterations retain as much as the ancient as possible; and if the magistrates change from those of old in number, authority, and term of office, they ought at least retain the name." (Machiavelli as quoted by Rahe, Vol II, p. 291)

Jefferson was in line with the Machiavelli. Notice it is about "eliminating the old way" and bringing in a "newer and freer" way of life.

What did Machiavelli want ended? Christendom, Western Culture and Western Civilization. Machiavelli began be defining republics as any government without a king. That is what America has. The Spartan, Roman, and English republics (under the Tudors), were all started by kings. The Spartan Republic and the English Commonwealth, "commonwealth" means the same as "republic", kept their kings. The ancient definition of a republic is mixed government. Jefferson, like all atheists, hated hierarchy and used the term "priestcraft" to attack and denigrate traditional Christianity. Where as in Sparta, Rome and Christendom, church and state went together, Jefferson and Machiavelli conceived of a New Order. That phrase "Novus Ordo" is on the US Seal and on the back of the US one dollar bill. Western Culture and civ is the Old Order. America and the French republics are all of the Novus Ordo. And the Novus Ordo is Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevism. That is what Machiavelli was promoting in his "newer, freer way of life". America is part of the Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevist culture and Civilization.

Blogger Pseudotsuga September 25, 2015 5:33 PM  

When my Scandi ancestors moved to the Upper Midwest (Wisconsin) in the mid 1800s, they joined up with the others who were already there, in an enclave. There's where the Scandi-Social strain seemed to remain. My particular family line broke those ties in a generation, moving westward (along with a grandfather whose father died only few weeks after he was born, so he never knew his family.)
I suspect that this is why my family isn't part of the Scandi-Socialist/Democratic voting bloc.

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan September 25, 2015 5:38 PM  

Vox,
I take umbrage at the suggestion the Italians don't understand the concept of limited government. We have essentially been existing without any government other than a very advanced form of kleptocracy since WW2. I don't even know an Italian that gives a flying copulation at a bat's posterior with regard to any politician other than how to maximally avoid their attentions.

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan September 25, 2015 5:48 PM  

Nate,
please be silent, you Greek philistine, who obviously cannot grasp the nature of the Constitution being a filthy Southern European, while our Mestizo Red Indian explains it to us Dagos.

Blogger Kirk Parker September 25, 2015 5:53 PM  



"America is in no way connected to Western Culture or Western Civilization. None whatsoever."

I gotta say, Vox collects some of the best, most entertaining trolls.

Blogger Salt September 25, 2015 5:57 PM  

This is how one makes Wheeler's hampster go ballistic-

SPARTA!

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 25, 2015 6:02 PM  

@41

"Machiavelli began by defining republics as any government without a king. That is what America has."

Strictly speaking, America has an elected King, known as a President. He exercises all the prerogatives of the Kings of old, up to and including deciding which of his citizens lives or dies today.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. September 25, 2015 6:10 PM  

Atreyu ref; the king is unconscious...

No, post america is deeply distorted, distracted with strange things. The laws or Constitution is ignored, the actions taken by lawmakers, law enforcement, etc., are supra constitutional meaning above and beyond the Constitution in the worst way.

Blogger Nate September 25, 2015 6:10 PM  

"please be silent, you Greek philistine, who obviously cannot grasp the nature of the Constitution being a filthy Southern European, while our Mestizo Red Indian explains it to us Dagos. "

Yes yes... I mean granted... My ancestors were busy formulated the concept of The Republic while Vox's were gutting each other on top of temples to appease some aztec blood god... but still...

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. September 25, 2015 6:11 PM  

(I along with others reject all these dynasties; Bush, Clinton, yet I am hoping for Rand.)

Blogger Nate September 25, 2015 6:13 PM  

I mean we had indoor plumbing... and freaking climate controlled buildings.... and Vox's fore fathers had not yet figured out the utility of the wheel...

The Kurgan and I are beling lectured about western civilization by someone who's great great great grand father was a cave man.

Blogger Doom September 25, 2015 6:13 PM  

W.LindsayWheeler,

Just one note. Voting isn't a right, never has been. It is a privilege.

Gun ownership, now, that is a right. See how the two have been perverted? Fix that, as a start, I suppose. I, personally, would take it back to the constitutional meaning (voting, and gun rights actually), then consider any changes. Actually, I would consider changes the way they did for most of history. As an academic (in the truer sense of the word, mind you, not this modern drivel), not legal, pursuit. Hrumph!

Blogger Salt September 25, 2015 6:19 PM  

@51 Yeah, had... and you were stupid enough to lose it all. Look at your ancestral lands now.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 6:34 PM  

@33 Edward Isaacs
As I seem to often say in certain conversations that ultimately are seeking utopia: "there is no human solution to the human condition."

OpenID Steve September 25, 2015 6:34 PM  

@31 so we only have to wait a millennium or two for the mohammadeans to evolve under the harsh northern conditions

You would have to cut off their white taxpayer paid benefits.
-BGS

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 6:35 PM  

@52 Doom
Depending on how you construct your argument. I do have the right to delegate. If my vote is a form of delegation, then voting is a right.
But the devil is in the details.

Blogger VD September 25, 2015 6:36 PM  

I take umbrage at the suggestion the Italians don't understand the concept of limited government.

They do, they just take a VERY different approach to it.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 6:41 PM  

Yes, and only those who stood in the spear line should vote. For they have put themselves on the line for the nation.

In his book, Agrarian Justice Thomas Paine, the Atheist, lays out that the American and French Revolutions were about a change in civilizations:

“A revolution in the state of civilization is the necessary companion of revolutions in the system of government."
And
"It is a revolution in the state of civilization that will give perfection to the Revolution of France."
(Vincent, pgs. 143; 165)

The American style of government is a completely different system of government. Thomas Paine was there; he knew exactly what he was doing and why. He knew the goals. The FFofA pulled in a lot of streams together. The FFofA delibrately rejected a mixed society hence you can't have a true republic, i.e. mixed government. They were liberals who hated democracy but copied the institutions from England and Rome, yet mixed it with Enlightenment ideas of egalitarianism and individual liberty and a rejection of Church and State, Throne and Altar. They rejected in some parts the Classical patrimony.

America is a Machiavellian Republic. q.v. Quentin Skinner's work.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 6:44 PM  

Re. Th. Jefferson

He violated his limited charter, for a limited time declared himself king (being poetic here) and bought a whole lot of land and people (they did not go anywhere, by and large). Another step in the empire building and the long term destruction of what was gained in the secession of 1776.

Blogger Harsh September 25, 2015 6:46 PM  

Them's some really long paragraphs, Wheeler.

Blogger Nate September 25, 2015 6:46 PM  

" Yeah, had... and you were stupid enough to lose it all. Look at your ancestral lands now."

What do you expect?

They were conquered military by the turks and interbred with them... its no wonder they've gone retard.

Blogger Harsh September 25, 2015 6:46 PM  

Them's some really long paragraphs, Wheeler.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 6:48 PM  

@44 Giuseppe The Kurgan

And all this time I though Nate is from Alabamy.

@49 Nate

Pretty funny. Thanks for clearing up you ancestry. Did you lift borrow that line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding?

Blogger maniacprovost September 25, 2015 6:53 PM  

Vox's fore fathers had not yet figured out the utility of the wheel...

The wheel is an artifact of White colonialism. What is it used for? To travel faster, bringing about globalisation and extended political units. Without the wheel we would have local communities. See "Victoria" and their intentionally range-limited vehicles.

The wheel is also used to move giant blocks of stone with SLAVE labor to build monuments to the White Man.

The wheel grinds natural foods like whole grains into industrialized carb-loaded snacks.

When the revolution comes, we will leave no whell unturned!

Blogger Bobo #117 September 25, 2015 6:55 PM  

@Pyrrus
"And intelligence is created by overcoming difficult, low temperature environments. Period."

Living amongst the Costa Ricans, which literally is the land of low-hanging fruit, has me constantly muttering to myself about "things that never go thru a Tico's mind"...like not parking in the middle of a busy road with your flashers on, just to talk to your friends...or not wearing black at night as you ride your non-reflectored bike at night with your 4-year old on the handle bars...or not spending $10 on lunch everyday when you make $3/hr and have a family...etc.
Not a bright bunch, but at least they're polite & passive. Unlike other tropical bunnies.

Blogger Bobo #117 September 25, 2015 6:57 PM  

You know what they say about the Catholic signers of the Declaration of Independance...seen one, ya seen em both...

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 7:52 PM  

Like how many people start their proofs of their argument with "All men are created equal"?

That statement is not true. It has no basis in Scripture nor in the real world. Yet that phrase is almost the central core of the Declaration. That is Masonic influence not Christian. No Catholic should have signed it. The biggest signature on the document is of John Hancock and he was a Mason. He was black marketeer who skirted the law. What was real basis of the revolution, to break away from Britain's mercantilist practices. It was about money. John Hancock was the biggest instigator of the revolution because he wanted to make money. America is a Masonic country.

Blogger VD September 25, 2015 7:55 PM  

My ancestors were busy formulated the concept of The Republic while Vox's were gutting each other on top of temples to appease some aztec blood god... but still...

At least we know how to party. And to think people wonder where I got my vicious streak from!

Blogger Doom September 25, 2015 8:22 PM  

JaimeInTexas,

No, you don't have a right to delegation, either. Only if you fit specific guidelines, constitutionally. Further, those allowances could be taken from you, unlike the numbered, God given, rights. Technically there isn't a way to remove the freedom of speech, or religion, etc., or even the right to own and bear arms... though common and poor sense alike have affected that and other rights. Certainly there isn't a way for the state to remove the right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness without just cause. All technical and theory, but truth enough in those areas. Unfortunately, a bit of a stretch in the real world, of course... obviously.

But, and again, no... you don't have a right to delegation. We had taxation without representation, which we again have, but by offering representation without taxation... just another form of tyranny and even more of a reason for war.

Blogger Bobo #117 September 25, 2015 8:25 PM  

@Wheeler

The concept of "All been are created equal" isn't a perfect scriptural quote, of course.
But it's there in the simple term "whosoever" repeated by Jesus.
And as Peter added, God is no respecter of persons.

So are you as handsome as me? No.
As strong and athletic? Of course not.
As intelligent? Laughable.

But we all start out equal in the eyes of God.
It's the staying equal that's hard...

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 8:26 PM  

Doom. Do I have the right tho contract?

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 8:31 PM  

The "no respecter of persons" simply means "equally treated." we are all stinners in need of salvation. Context people, context. Rich, poor, Jew, Greek, slave or free. He who calls on Jesus will be saved.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 8:34 PM  

This Scriptural quote ought to disabuse anyone from using Jefferson's phrase:

“And all men are from the ground, and Adam was created of earth. In much knowledge the Lord hath divided them, and made their ways diverse. Some of them hath he blessed and exalted, and some of them hath he sanctified, and set near himself: but some of them hath he cursed and brought low, and turned out of their places. As the clay is in the potter’s hand, to fashion it as his pleasure: so man is in the hand of him that made him, to render to them as liketh him best.” (LXX, Ecclesiasticus 36:10-13)

Two nations came from Rebecca's womb on the same day. One was the father of the Edomites and Jacob was the Patriarch of the Israelites. Were the Edomites equal to the Israelites? No.

We have different souls from our Patriarchs. Just like women are fundamentally different from men and men from God, so men are different from each other. There is no equality between the Semite and the Indo-European. Georges Dumezil recognized that Indo-European languages have a trifunctionality to them. For the Semites it is monism. Semites think very differently from Indo-Europeans as the Greeks are different from the Romans. The Romans were not a philosophical people but a very pragmatic people.

True God is not a respecter of people, but He still created us differently. It is the principle of macrocosm/microcosm.

If what they want to say that all men are equal and there is no difference amongst men, Socrates would ask the for the principle of consistency. Does a furniture maker go out to the woods and just grab any tree out there? Is there a difference between a poplar and an oak? If all men are created equal then all trees are created equal. Does a stone mason go out to the quarry and grab any rock out there to carve? Is there a difference between gypsum and marble? If all men are created equal then all rocks are created equal. Does a farmer go to a Hereford for milk the same way he goes to a Holstein? If all men are created equal then all cows are created equal.

There are racial differences. Some are blessed and some are deprived of this-n-that. Racial differences have value.

Blogger Subversive Saint #249 September 25, 2015 8:51 PM  

@Nate. Sounds like our ancestors share similar heritage of the Hellenistic variety.

War Eagle.

Blogger Danby September 25, 2015 9:04 PM  

Wheeler
You're misunderstanding the use of the words "created equal". In the present case "created was used in the sense that one is "created" a member of nobility. In other words, the phrase means "given equal status", not "made the same by God".

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 9:18 PM  

Wheeler. Th. Jefferson is a brilliant political mind. Theologically, Christian biblical theology, not so much.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 9:35 PM  

Danby I do not understand your response. If we are talking about "creating men" only God does the creating. The phrase "all men are created equal" is a rhetorical statement and so it has no truth value to it. It isn't even a Truth statement about reality. Scholars point to Jefferson's statement as overturning Aristotle. Aristotle said, some men are natural slaves. If they are "natural" they were created that way. Aristotle is observing of reality. The Negro is a slave to his passions; we know that today by just observation of his general character. A person enslaved to his passions is a slave. Funny thing, the Bible says that of the descendants of Ham.

Some people are created as nobility. The natural law is ensconced in this agrarian saying, "Cream rises to the top". All groups have an elite within them. People that excel in strength, foresight, intelligence, action and charisma. That is the nobility. And what fleshed that out was the battlefield. All nobility were brought to the fore on the battlefield. Nature does this. And what is behind nature is God.

Even "given equal status" is not right. The family is the first society. It is a unit of human grouping. Are all men created equal in the family? Most certainly not. "As above, so below". What forms all things in nature is the natural law. And what forms both the family and the society is the Natural Law. Thomas Jefferson, even though he uses the phrase 'laws of nature', did not have the real, original natural law. The natural law makes distinctions. Not everybody is born a chief. Natural leaders come to the fore and then it became standardized in monarchy and aristocracy and all the orders in between. Nature forms castes from the bees to the bovines to the gorillas.

And to say that Thomas Jefferson was brilliant--America is a failed state. It has been the cause of much evil in the world for instance Woodrow Wilson's forcing the abdication of the kings and princes of Germany and Austria. The ensuing power vacuum led the way for Adolf Hitler's rise to power. The immigration debacle is due to our democracy. The rule of Jews of America is due to its democracy that Jefferson set up.

If this was a true monarchy, with Church and State, there would have been no muslims in America, no immigration destroying our patrida, and no Jewish rule over us and over our culture. The Loss of Europe and America is due solely to the Enlightenment's and the Englishman's rejection of the Catholic Faith.

Blogger J Van Stry September 25, 2015 9:36 PM  

My ancestors were mainly European (Dutch/German, English, Irish, and some American Indian). When I look back at them, thinking of Vox's comments above, I do note that some of my Irish ancestors and relatives really didn't pay much heed to that document as compared to the rest.

Back in the 60's my father used to complain about how the government was abusing and ignoring the constitution, and how eventually we wouldn't have any of the rights he did. We all thought he was just being 'an old man' complaining about change. But I look around now, and I see he was actually quite prophetic about where things were going.

I don't know if it is genetics or culture, or what, but I notice that South America really hasn't changed very much in the last two hundred years government wise. Same for Mexico. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Blogger Cail Corishev September 25, 2015 9:50 PM  

J Van Stry,

I read an article a while back (wish I could remember where) that went through the Latin American countries one by one and detailed how they keep gravitating to socialism. Even when they find themselves ruled by somewhat right-wing governments for one reason or another, it doesn't take them long to shed those; and as soon as they get their druthers, back to socialism they go. It's the same story in nation after nation across the continent. Granted, they've been marinating in the Liberation Theology of the Jesuits and other flavors of Marxism for a while, but that just begs the question: why have they been such a fertile breeding ground for that?

It seems they just plain like it. It's what feels right to them.

Blogger Koanic September 25, 2015 9:56 PM  

"So how does one explain the amazing technological advances of the Eskimo/Inuit?"

Haven't been cold long enough. Small gene pool too. And perhaps intelligence also comes from macro jumps that have nothing to do with temperature. *Cough* Nephilim.

As for me, I hail from Northern ice and snow, with a drop Ashkenazi to make the brain go. My wrath runs chill and my plots grind slow. Salt DC? I'll make it glow.

Blogger Bobo #117 September 25, 2015 9:59 PM  

Wheeler, you're in pretty deep and you don't have the boots for it.

Slaves & nobility are the same in God's eyes. Nobody but you has missed that point.
Was Jefferson a Christian? No, but quit pissin in the soup! The Declaration was penned with protestant English sentiment, by predominately protestant Englishmen, as with the Constitution. It only really works for people who are or think like protestant Englishmen.

Now stop.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 10:02 PM  

The difference between North and South America is due to religion and racial qualities. The Northern European is highly intelligent over the indigenous people of South America. South America is really a land of the indigenous people where as North America was colonized by Northern Europeans and the indigenous people were wiped out by disease. Second, Purtanism which was progressive and also its fundamentalist views from the Bible created a society that a) forced to create a utopian state and hence progressive and b) the fundamentalism, in a sense, established a hardcore character. Original Catholicism was not a progressive religion. What formed Catholicism, the Greeks and the Romans, they were a both a people that were not progressive. The Jewish messiansim introduced in the Renaissance changed the character of the European and made him progressive; i.e. to seek a milleniarist society.

SJWism is found in the Enlightenment Thought. It was about "fixing the world" which is also a Jewish value.

These two things, the Puritans were introduced into. They carried into the New World and it their mentality that formed Americanism with its progressiveness and its so-called duty to fix the world of its evils.

Blogger Sheila4g September 25, 2015 10:05 PM  

@79 Cail - was the article about Latin American countries perhaps this post at the right stuff?

Off topic - Vox, there's a review of SJWs Always Lie over at Amren now. Mostly positive and fair overall.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 10:08 PM  

Slaves and nobility are not the same. They are both God's children but by calling them "God's children" doesn't make them same. They are not. You are talking Galations 3:8, which has a totally different context, that of many religions of the day only accepted certain genders, certain classes and discriminated against outsiders. Christianity as a universal religion accepted everybody, but that "equality" does NOT exist IN Nature! You can't apply a theological standard to Nature. Nature is one thing. Theology is another. The error is taking something in the Theology sphere and applying it to reality. That is what is messing everything up. What is Caesars is Caesars, and what is God's is Gods. You have to keep the spheres separated. You can't apply theological equality that is part of the theological sphere and apply it to the realm of the material world. "All men are NOT created equal". But all men are beloved of God. There is a huge difference there.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 25, 2015 10:19 PM  

Sheila4g, yes, that was it, thanks.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 25, 2015 10:21 PM  

Symbols are very important. Every society, every culture, every religion engages in symbology. Symbols point to a hidden reality.

To further press the argument that America is not a part of Western Culture is to look at the symbols it engages. What is on the flag of America? Who created the American Flag? Basically, George Washington. He was a Mason as was all of his generals under him. What symbol is on the flag?

The Star.

The Star is a Masonic symbol. It is also used on the European Union flag. It is on the USSR flag as well. What was carved on foreheads of the victims of the Karkov massacre in the Russian Revolution? Stars. What is on the cap of the Chinese and Vietnamese communist military cap? A star.

The Star is the symbol of Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevism. When you pledge allegiance to the Flag of America, you are pledging your allegiance to values of Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevism. I have stopped participating in saying the Pledge when I attend Public or community meetings. No Catholic can. America is a Novus Ordo that has very little connection to the values and culture of Traditional Indo-European culture and civilization. Basically, all Americans are Jews. You certainly are not Europeans for you do not hold what Europeans did before the American and French Reovlutions. European society has always been of a caste character. Order is a predominant European value and cultural meme. America has none of that. European culture exhibits trifunctionality. America does not have that. America today is a fully realized Marxist state.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 25, 2015 10:34 PM  

Or, sometimes a star is just a star.

Blogger BunE22 September 25, 2015 10:57 PM  

All men WERE created equal. At least back then. You see, when daddy and mommy were very much in love they expressed their love to each other and then men were born of that love.

Today they have sperm donors, frozen embryos, petri dishes, and all kinds of shit.

Stars in the flag? http://www.usa-flag-site.org/history/

"On June 14, 1777, in order to establish an official flag for the new nation, the Continental Congress passed the first Flag Act: “Resolved, That the flag of the United States be made of thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation.”

It's a trap! Me thinks you need more tin foil.



Blogger Evan Hartshorn September 25, 2015 11:05 PM  

What did the Magi follow to Christ? A star!
What did a ninja throw at my face? A star!
What makes Mario invincible?
In what pattern do you tighten you tire's lug nuts?
I see it now. The Magi were the original Masons. When they left baby Jesus, they went to Japan and made ninjas and vidya. Henry Ford was a ninja, and thus also an Italian Mason/Plumber, which gave him a knack for engineering.

"All men are created equal and endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights" because even kings are subject to God's Law. My "right to life" is nothing more than "Thou shalt not murder" applied to potentates as well as peons.

Blogger Student in Blue September 25, 2015 11:09 PM  

That's a nice rant and all but why do you never, ever, ever seem to talk about anything except Masonry and Jews?

You took the topic, Wheeler, and ran sprinting with it off in your own tangent beating your dead hobby horse once more.

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 25, 2015 11:27 PM  

"And intelligence is created by overcoming difficult, low temperature environments. Period."

I sincerely doubt it.

Low temperature environments will certainly filter out the indolent and stupid. That I will grant you. And thus they will inevitably make higher intelligence more generalised amongst any population.

Created?

That's a very unfortunate word in this context.

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 25, 2015 11:30 PM  

Wheeler,

Paine was just plain wrong about the French and American revolutions. While they aimed at similar objectives, perhaps, the French is better termed a simple revolt. Yes there was blood and fire and the separation of heads from nobles, but no change in the basis of power or its distribution.

The American experiment is, in this sense, far more deserving of the term Revolution, even as it has visibly reverted to the historic mean ...

Blogger haus frau September 25, 2015 11:49 PM  

@11 I have read that Native Americans on the whole are descended from very, very small founding groups. This was used as a partial explanation of their vulnerability to western diseases. Starting the culture/IQ game off with very restricted genetic variability can't help much. Theoretically %95 of Native Americans are believed to have descended from only 6 women about 18,000 yrs ago.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88228156

Blogger Were-Puppy September 26, 2015 1:10 AM  

The Native Americans are bolshevik mormon masons with deep roots in masonism and i can't even

Blogger J.J. Mangas September 26, 2015 1:21 AM  

Actori incumbit probatio is Latin for the longstanding legal maxim in Western Civilization meaning burden of proof falls upon the plaintiff. Can you recognize it's influence on the US Constitution? Or, if you wish; Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (Proof lies on him who asserts, not on him who denies)

Mens rea, (guilty mind) is an essential part of American jurisprudence and wholly harmonious with the Constitution.

Ad quod damnum, (according to the harm)

Affidavit (he has sworn)

Audi alteram partem (hear the other side) a key element to a fair trial.

Certiorari (to be apprised)

compos mentis (of sound mind)

Ex post facto (thing done afterward)

Expressio unius est exclusio alterius ("the express mention of one thing excludes all others") this legal maxim was at the heart of the Anti-Federalists aversion to the Bill of Rights and why the 9th Amendment exists.

Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance of law excuses no one)

Just a smattering of Latin phrases among countless embedded in British and subsequently American jurisprudence.

OpenID Jack Amok September 26, 2015 1:38 AM  

I doubt you could argue the britts did any better than the US did... and they didn't have near the immigration.

They didn't have as much immigration, but they had a lot more emigration. They lost a fair chunk of the population most likely to preserve what they had to the US.

Where they were eventually swamped by immigrants.

OpenID Jack Amok September 26, 2015 1:46 AM  

Homogeneous populations generally can avoid most of those triggers, and while it can be a racial thing, it is also vitally a cultural thing. If your neighbor is not like you in skin color, but barbecues like you, works like you, knows the same history, and you know that they'll help you out in a pinch?

Bluntobj, I agree with you to a large degree, but...

racial differences can only be overlooked when the minority race is relatively tiny in numbers. When they are not, the "culturally compatible" ones get lumped in with their non-compatible lookalikes as a defense mechanism by the other races. Mass immigration ruins the ability of the nation to assimilate immigrants.

If the numbers of self-selected immigrants is very small, a trickle compared to the host population, then exactly what you described can happen. But when it's a deluge, or even a steady flow, it's too destabilizing on the culture.

Blogger Phillip George September 26, 2015 2:13 AM  

writer's here seem to be incessantly conflating IQ with creativity, resourcefulness, insight and culture. The country is riddled with clever alcoholics and drug addicts. IQ doesn't make the cut.

It's simple Wheeler, Plato simply discovered some pre Christian insights. It was mere prescience. ie. Nothing predates Christianity. I don't expect you to "get" that. but NT writers themselves allude to foresight in forebears. Does it ring a bell? Jesus predates Plato - He predates Adam.

Blogger Forrest Bishop September 26, 2015 3:51 AM  

@94. Were-Puppy

The Native Americans are bolshevik mormon masons with deep roots in masonism and i can't even

Finally someone's gotten to the bottom of it.


@88. BunE22 September 25, 2015 10:57 PM

Stars in the flag? http://www.usa-flag-site.org/history/

"On June 14, 1777, in order to establish an official flag for the new nation, the Continental Congress passed the first Flag Act: “Resolved, That the flag of the United States be made of thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation.”

It's a trap! Me thinks you need more tin foil.


I gotcher tin foil right here, pal. The alleged flag of the alleged United States is a variation of one of the many ensigns of the British East India Company, one of the world's first corporations. The Tea Party ripped it off from an Eastindiaman in Boston Harbor, which was operating outside of its charter. Washington then hoisted that very ensign as a signal to the British Army: let's cut the bs and get down to business. The alleged American Revolution was nothing more than a corporate restructuring, as can be deduced from the Paris Treaty. The bit about the raised-arm, palm-down, Pledge of Allegiance came later (courtesy of a pinko-commie proto-SJW), only to be ripped off later by their allies, the Nazis.

Blogger Doom September 26, 2015 4:34 AM  

JaimeInTexas,

Do I hold available to contract?

Sometimes. My health conditions mean that at some points I may not be always held liable. Age, and to a degree, sex and sophistication, may hold bearing on contractual worthiness and obligation. So... here again, I think you are failing. There are plenty of loopholes, limits, and such, even in law to this day.

Now, I mean to keep my word. I do not do business with false intent. And I have pretty much kept my word, save once when medical demands were too much and I had no real choice. However, push come to shove, if those I do business with act in bad faith, I have no actual obligation to pay them due to the nature of my income. So... yes and no.

I do well enough that businesses work with me regularly. I simply explain the bad practices and that covers the problems.

Blogger Red Bane September 26, 2015 5:12 AM  

The Exodus like fable concerning the pure and hygienic founding of America by a small group of Anglo's fleeing religious persecution has always been an amusing tale. The problem at the heart of the US Constitution, the New covenant of 'Americanism' for the chosen people,despite some vague reference to the creator, is that man is front and center of this novel and secular creation. God will not be mocked, and nature abhors a vacuum. The novel lack of a true recognition of man's spiritual ontological reality was always setting up the American secular identity for eventual corruption and collapse. In many respects, the American experiment was as secular and anti-western as was communism .
John Adams stated that the Constitution was written for and only suited for a moral people. The tenuous and fragile connection to the religion that inspired western civilization and morality ,cut off in America from its font, has resulted in the amoral secularism that dominates the landscape today. The same result of course, can be witnessed in the violently and legalistically anti Christian British homeland today. Englishmen established the shaky and doomed foundations of America and post-Catholic England. They have no one but themselves and their own man centered idealism to blame for the inevitable results.

Blogger Red Bane September 26, 2015 5:32 AM  

Take a look at the names of the 1948 Court Justices that ruled against prayer in school. Apart from one Catholic, they all have Anglo names and professed some form of protestant faith. Anglo's, in the majority, have lead the charge to eradicate God from the fiber of American life and her most influential institutions. Taking God out of the equation is like taking the wheels of your car as far as sound social progress is concerned. No civilization will stand that tries to deny the Creator.

Blogger Koanic September 26, 2015 5:45 AM  

The interminable Wheeler of Time:
Scroll Wheeler

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 26, 2015 5:58 AM  

How does Thomas Jefferson interpret his own phrase?

We have a clue when in a letter, Thomas Jefferson said there was no difference between Hinduism, Christianity and Islam. They were all equal. His phrase "All men are created equal" is meant materially. Why do you think the US Constitution forbids distinctions of rank for? Because "all men are created equal". That is not how Nature works.

Blogger Phillip George September 26, 2015 6:39 AM  

tell that to someone with spina bifida Wheeler

Blogger Phillip George September 26, 2015 6:44 AM  

What is Caesars is Caesars,
Case in point, When Caesar is a born again Christian what is Caesar's is God's. The paradigm you promote disappears in a puff of logic.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 26, 2015 8:21 AM  

If your neighbor is not like you in skin color, but barbecues like you, works like you, knows the same history, and you know that they'll help you out in a pinch?

Until O.J. Simpson kills two people, or Trayvon Martin gets himself killed, or Barack Obama gets nominated for president, and you discover that your neighbor -- who BBQs with you, roots for the same sports teams from your couch, knows the same history, speaks the same language in the same way, cares about the same local issues, prays to the same God, disciplines his kids in the same way, and has helped you out in a pinch -- will let all that be trumped by solidarity with a killer or socialist traitor who happens to have his skin color. All of a sudden this guy you thought was just like you is talking like a radical idiot because of some racial thing happening thousands of miles away.

That's just how it works. White Christians keep being surprised by it because they got out of the habit of thinking that way after centuries of being on top and not needing to, but it's how every other group in the world works.

Blogger Bobo #117 September 26, 2015 9:31 AM  

True, Cail.
Very likely, in the coming unpleasantness, your skin is your uniform...

Blogger Sheila4g September 26, 2015 1:59 PM  

@107 Spot on, Cail. Race trumps social ties, income, politics, religion, everything.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 26, 2015 3:17 PM  

Doom. Are you agreeing that we have a right to contract?

Blogger Joe Keenan September 26, 2015 5:26 PM  

Your history is way off Vox. After the fall of the Western Empire it was Irish monks and priests who educated Western Europe. The "Germans" were chasing pigs in the forest when the Irish got there. Regarding the English, they destroyed 900 years of culture in the culture war called the English Reformation, they soon descended into a Police State and from there into civil wars. Post Reformation English history is mad. The American system was a response to the then "recent" English history. Roundheads were in New England and Cavaliers in the South; the same people who warred in England. The American system collapsed when the Roundheads finally got the war they wanted (and seized control of the system) with the South, it was the English Civil Wars brought to America. The decline of the American Republic is not because the Italians, Irish, French, etc. don't understand it, it died because the "English" killed it, just like they killed civilization in their own country.

Blogger Red Bane September 27, 2015 3:50 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Red Bane September 27, 2015 3:55 AM  

Joe Keenan. Can I get an Amen? Nailed it. Nearly 14 years living in the UK taught me that Britain, a conglomeration of nations on the verge of social chaos, was simply running on the cultural fumes of the pre-reformation tank of western culture.To use the term 'Police State' is no exaggeration. William Cobbet, a Protestant, wrote about the devilish tactics used by a small ruling elite to subjugate the English people. Any more modern tyrant would be proud to adopt the same tactics.

OpenID tz September 27, 2015 9:16 AM  

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=100766#The Aitken Bible and Congress
The whole thing was non-conformist protestants and is more biblical than anglo with a dash of baptized enlightenment. Hard to see, but look at the UK of Dawkins and (late) Hitchens and consider what they would do.
Blackstone was anglo as well as the jury system, and the Magna Charta.
It is far easier if you have 1000 years of history complete with problems like Lord Protector Cromwell to have reason, desire, and background to create the US Constitution.
English History, reason, the bible all came together. Most don't study their own history much less others, and few read the bible which is the word of God or any other less worthy book. Even here.
It is one of the problems with anarchic libertarians - they assume a few Rothbards, Blocks, and Hoppes could do better in a few months.
In a different area, Japan copied Deming and became an industrial powerhouse, so there is hope, especially since the alternative is a collapse.

Blogger Joe Keenan September 28, 2015 8:48 PM  

Red Bame, Amen! Cobbet is very informative. See also:

http://www.amazon.com/Gunpowder-traditional-tested-original-evidence/dp/B003P2VYTQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1443487367&sr=8-5&keywords=what+was+the+gunpowder+plot

We would now call The Gunpowder Plot a false flag operation.

OpenID ymarsakar October 01, 2015 7:53 AM  

The Demoncrats in 1830s didn't respect the Constitution either.

This has long been an issue in America, because Civil War 1 was going to be refought one way or another, since Reconstruction was won by the losing side, not the Union side.

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