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Friday, September 11, 2015

Peak American-Israelism

It looks as if the Learned Elders of Wye were correct to be concerned as the apex of Jewish influence in America they expected appears to have already passed:
Officials at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee knew the odds were against them in the fight to block President Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran from surviving a congressional vote. But the influential pro-Israel group threw itself into a nearly $30 million advertising and lobbying effort to kill the accord anyway.

On Thursday, the committee, known as Aipac, was handed a stinging defeat. After Mr. Obama mustered enough Democratic backing in the Senate to halt a vote on a resolution of disapproval against the deal, a group known for its political clout saw its power and reputation in Washington diminished.

“They failed — they couldn’t even get a vote,” said Clifford Kupchan, an Iran expert and the chairman of the Eurasia Group, a consulting firm, who noted that Aipac had gone “all in” and tried everything to stop the deal. “It’s among the biggest setbacks for Aipac in recent memory.”

The loss has raised difficult questions about the future of Aipac, a group formed in 1951 just a few years after the birth of Israel. Aipac has long drawn its political potency from its reservoirs of loyalty among members of both parties, but that bipartisan veneer all but vanished in recent weeks as the debate over the Iran deal became increasingly bitter.

Republicans lined up unanimously with Aipac against the accord, which Mr. Obama had made his top foreign policy priority. The vast majority of Democrats supported it.
It's playing out exactly as I, and a few other contrarians, had warned them. The New Americans who are now the driving force in the Democratic Party view the Jews as dangerous and powerful rivals, not as poor oppressed refugees who are beyond all criticism, and they are totally immune to both Holocaustianity and accusations of anti-semitism. And while AIPAC still enjoys the lockstep loyalty of elected Republicans, its left-wing domestic politics, adventurist foreign policy, and pro-immigration stance means it is increasingly anathema to the Republican base.

It's not the end for AIPAC. It remains a rich and powerful political influence. But it is the first indication that its days of dictating to the U.S. Congress are over and the trend lines clearly point downward.

Labels: ,

87 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon September 11, 2015 4:42 AM  

This will likely prove to be Bibi's biggest mistake and perhaps even undoing. He made this THE issue of his administration, and lost. It was absurdly stupid. What's going on in Syria (and Iraq) are of far greater import, and now Iran and the US are practically allies there fighting the non-entity of Daesh. Russia is now entering in a very big way. A developing world war, right on our doorstep.

Iran's nuclear program pales as an issue by comparison. As you've said many times. It was inevitable that they would get nukes, it was rational for them to want them, and regardless of their rhetoric, will not actually use them. It would have been better to accept the deal but attempt to keep the US otherwise at a lightly adversarial stance.

Blogger Shimshon September 11, 2015 4:55 AM  

Vox, have you seen Xenakis' latest on Generational Dynamics? If true, Putin is making some shrewd moves.

According to one analysis, Russia's president Vladimir Putin does not really want to end up in a quagmire in Syria, but is using the threat of a massive Russian military deployment to Syria to blackmail the West into accepting "Putin's plan" for Syria.

Putin's plan would be to form a broad international coalition, targeting the so-called Islamic State (IS or ISIS or ISIL or Daesh). The all-inclusive anti-ISIS coalition would unite Syrian regime forces with Western forces and Russian forces against ISIS, and would receive a mandate from the United Nations General Assembly. Putin plans to address the UN General Assembly in mid-September, and may discuss the plan then.

The plan would mean that Western forces would join with Russia and Iran to prop up the regime of Syria's president Bashar al-Assad, with the nominal objective of fighting ISIS. Russia's power and military base in the Mideast would be firmly established, and the West could relieve Russia of the job of defeating ISIS and al-Qaeda linked Jabhat al-Nusra (al-Nusra Front), which Putin sat back and watched.

Anonymous Haxo Angmark September 11, 2015 5:00 AM  

while Vox'Day's remarks about AIPAC's diminishment are accurate, AIPAC is only the tip of the JewPower iceberg. So long as Zion controls the Central Bank and the MSM, it will continue to dominate and destroy America by bribing off and fencing in the political class and most of the chattering class. This AIPAC defeat is tactical, not strategic

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 11, 2015 5:20 AM  

The good news for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee is its continuing control of the Republican Party establishment, presumably through the influence of the "donor class". (Meaning Sheldon Adelson etc.)

The bad news is that the Republican Party establishment is brittle and weak, without a loyal popular base or the ability to influence public opinion much. It gets its votes by pretending to stand for values that in office it does not stand up for, and it is practiced in "failure theater," always holding up its empty hands to its base and saying "we tried but we couldn't get you anything," no matter how great its numbers are, and no matter how obvious it is that is doesn't care about delivering on its promises.

(The policies that the "donor class" members require as a condition of their generosity mean that the Republican Party establishment is never going to deliver the goods for a 90% white, mostly Christian, mostly working-class base. So the establishment is not going to earn back its lost loyalty from the white base.)

One could wish for a more reliable political gang to bet one's safety on, rather that these greedy losers with their limited future.

Jews in America ought to be making the same sorts of calculations that Jews in South Africa did, as that country approached its fatal crises. This is not the time for the world's premier sojourning people to forget how to get while the getting is good.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 11, 2015 5:28 AM  

3. Haxo Angmark: "This AIPAC defeat is tactical, not strategic"

But the hollowing out of a Republican Party establishment that stands for nothing but its bribes is strategic, not just tactical.

You can bribe Lindsey Graham all you like, but what is he worth?

Anonymous redsash September 11, 2015 5:39 AM  

Putin, Iran, and the USA together in Syria fighting ISIS and protecting Assad. This just warms my heart.

Putin is not Stalin, Hitler, Churchill, Talleyrand, or Metternich. If anything he is the new Alexander the Great. It amazes me how he stays several jumps ahead. One could easily believe that he is God's chosen servant specially picked to carry out some plan that God has in store for mankind.

Blogger Doom September 11, 2015 5:42 AM  

You nailed it. What amazes me is that they have to, no matter their politics, understand what is happening. And still they choose to make no course corrections. They have abused their partners in literal crime, as I see it, Republican politicians that is, to the point where they may not be able to win, simply because in pursuing AIPAC's goals, they have eliminated the simple strength of the demographics which might vote for their favored allies. Even if holding the nose to do so. It's gone. Many like me simply refuse to vote at all at this point. I won't give them the rope to hang me.

I seriously have to believe the left is suicidal, and learned it from Jews, at this point. Perhaps some things, in the broader contexts, are fated. Jews were the first minority. They played it well, but those cards are played out. Too many other groups are using the franchised system of gaming the program and there isn't enough left for anybody. When the smallest minority is every individual, and they are playing for freebies, the time has to come when everyone is shoved off the boat, or it just sinks. It's coming.

I wonder if Jews will pay the highest price, being the first to capitalize on the weakness of the democratic parts of many republics and other sorts? They will be remembered for introducing this sin. I want Israel to exist, but not at the cost of my domestic politics that has included. Repatriation may be required, but not just for Jews. For all who have been sucking on the tit wrongly, and those who have broken the political system.

Blogger The Observer September 11, 2015 5:49 AM  

@6

I do see one problem with repatriation, though. Even Israel doesn't want atheist leftist people, be they of Jewish descent. Bibi's own words. Chances in a crisis that they'll cook up some reason to take in only orthodox jews?

Anonymous Samuel Scott September 11, 2015 6:08 AM  

Even Israel doesn't want atheist leftist people, be they of Jewish descent. Bibi's own words.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Israel welcome immigration from anyone 1.) who is at least 1/4 ethnically Jewish and 2.) has not adopted another religion.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 September 11, 2015 6:09 AM  

shimshon you should be more concerned with whether or not Elul has 29 days or 30. Will Nehemiah Gordon see the new moon Sunday night or Monday?
Israel could have been the nation of kings and priests - leading the world in worship.
Where is Mount Zion now? A missing hill. Just south of the city of David there should be a hill. Mount Zion. It's not there. The temple was on a saddle back ridge.
Didn't Israel create Hamas and then Isis to divide their enemies? Not really working very well but what were the alternatives?

But you've never had a throne for a priest have you? Where would Melchizedek be seated if He were to walk in Jerusalem today? A throne? Could you sit Him on the Ark of the Covenant? Where are Israel's royal family now that you need one?

Anonymous Rick Johnsmeyer September 11, 2015 6:32 AM  

The Iran debate seems to be at least partly a generational one. Boomers and older "pundits" may care, in part because they have been insulated from the consequences of their own national mismanagement. To them, America is something other than a rapidly-third-worldifying and economically-stagnant nation which already shot its foreign-wars wad on Iraq and Afghanistan.

Their conception of "America" is not, for example, full of elementary school classrooms that are half-Hispanic and rising. They don't see these things nor understand them. Their America is little-changed from the conditions that prevailed in 2002, when the great national concerns were extraneous rather than internal.

A lot of younger Americans regard this is a ridiculous self-indulgence which is completely irrelevant to more proximate concerns related to jobs and finances and ethnocultural contortions, even if they don't (or cannot) express that last prong very clearly.

They also regard the Boomers as incompetent fools who sent them into Iraq/Afghanistan to begin with, for no clear purpose, and with no real legacy but debt and failure.

An organization like AIPAC got fat and lazy on the post-9/11 feeding trough. They are hardly the only ones to be glancing up in confusion as the snout finally hits the bare metal under the feed.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 11, 2015 6:48 AM  

This thread will have analysis many times better then what you will read in the controlled media.

That 1965 immigration act looking like a pure stroke of genius doesn't it AIPAC? Now which group of white people will they blame? And they will, it is the script.

Blogger Sherwood family September 11, 2015 6:53 AM  

AIPAC has been around for quite a while and could count on bipartisan support: Leftist Jews on the Democrat side, and Evangelical Zionists delivering the Republicans. Looks like the leftist Jews did not get the memo. But the Evangelical Zionists are still getting the goods for them.

I used to be very much a Republican Zionists who believed that Israel was America's most important ally in the Middle East.

Now, older and more experienced, though perhaps no more wise, I scratch my head and wonder what kind of alliance we have had? Israel has been important to the United States because of the Diaspora Jews and because of a strain of Old Testament mentality that resonated with certain religious portions of the population.

But what has Israel delivered for the United States? Some help during the Cold War, no doubt, but then Iran did the same thing so that can't be it. Have they ever contributed money or troops to a military engagement that included the United States? They might have. Perhaps I am ignorant. But compared with Australia they've done relatively little. Compared with Canada they have not helped out with much of the heavy lifting. Yet, they are a sine qua non of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Why?

Their U.S. relatives and co-ethnics or co-religionists (however you prefer to view it) have a large presence in the United States. But so do the Armenians. Yet, despite some effect on U.S. policy, one rarely hears much in the news about Armenia, about the Nagorno-Karabakh War, about animosity towards Azerbaijan. One hears occasionally about the Genocide and there is lobbying that goes on to get it recognized as such from time to time in Congress but there is no National 1915 Genocide Museum. There is not a law on U.S. books related to helping them emigrate from the Soviet Union like there was for Jews. Armenians have simply not had the same impact on policy or culture in the United States. (Unless one counts the Kardashians.) Why?






Blogger finndistan September 11, 2015 7:00 AM  

Oh oh...

First they install a radical muslim as president to further destroy the west, then are surprised when the radical muslim stops taqiyya and does as a radical muslim does.

Will just give more credibility when they go Samson
Rest of us can burn in the inferno.

Still I believe the cries of the aipac are just for show. They benefit from Big O signing the deal and not signing the deal.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 11, 2015 7:01 AM  

So I flip to Free Republic and yes the Israelis are lashing out at whites, whom they think should lose and die off, but somehow via some miracle support the Jewish State till the messiah arrives, that sure is some fucking genius.

How did the world's self proclaimed smartest people get that White Genocide is good for Jews?

Blogger Eric September 11, 2015 7:01 AM  

What really amazes me is that, through these kinds of losses, the American Jew continues to vote in lockstep with the Progressive Left. They are voting for their own doom as the Left in this country couldn't care less about Jews - except for votes and campaign contributions.

SJWs always lie - even to themselves.

Blogger VD September 11, 2015 7:10 AM  

How did the world's self proclaimed smartest people get that White Genocide is good for Jews?

Because they stupidly continue to see the Europeans as their rivals for global dominance and not the Chinese, who will murder them all in a heartbeat if someone tells them Jewish testicles are an aphrodisiac.

Seriously, it makes me laugh to think of the Jews trying to cry Holocaust to the Chinese. "The Germans killed SIX MILLION of us, humanity OWES us!"

"Yeah, we Han kill fifty million Chinese, nobody care, what the fuck you think we care about six million who aren't even Han?"

Blogger Sherwood family September 11, 2015 7:14 AM  

The difference in reactions between the Han and the Hebrews is that the Hebrews have better publicists.

Anonymous RedJack #22 September 11, 2015 7:17 AM  

Another party in this is the Catholic church. They have been importing massive numbers of muslims into the US and the EU. Not to mention blocking any attempt at immigration control, beginning at the local level.

They hate the Evangelical almost as much as the left does. Of course, it is going to blow up in their face once the Vatican becomes a mosque .

Anonymous Lawyer Guy September 11, 2015 7:22 AM  

I went to a top 5 law school, and the Jews ruled like princes. 20 percent of the students, and 50 percent of new faculty. No events Friday night. half the pizzas had to be goat cheese.

Snarked about everything conservative or religious--except Sacred Israel

Then I passed the bar. Where three or more lawyers gather with drinks, and Jews are not present, stories about the tribe come out. Control of judges, business deals where they have info on both sides with a few calls, freezing out goy lawyers professionally for life for not rolling on clients. My favorite is their hobby of sending out operatives an hour or two from cities to attack prayers before football games or county commission meetings, and acting like it is the second coming of the holocaust.

The end of their reign isn't here yet, but they have been priming the pump for 50 years.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 11, 2015 7:24 AM  

The hilarious part is that this will change nothing.

Republicans will continue mooning over the eternally out of reach Jewish vote like a love struck Gamma. It's the sensible thing to do really when you honestly think about it. We really are alike in so many, many ways! Vote for us please. Pleeeeeeeeaaaase!!. (*sob...sob*)

American Jews will continue to their wife-beater relationship with the Democrats.

Obama will continue to slap the Israelis and ignore American Jews because he knows that that relationship is not even slightly at risk over this. New York Jews will continue for their part to make excuses for him. He's really been under a lot stress and it only happens when he's been drinking.

I'm reminded of a story from the war. A Polish Jew who was fighting as a partisan came upon a group of German Jews who were being transferred from a sub-concentration to Auschwitz. It was a small group only a couple hundred. Not even worth the cattle cars. They were being marched their deaths on foot. The guards over seeing them weren't even proper SS and they had ordered them to sit down while they went and had lunch.

The Polish Jew ran up to them furtively, "Run," he told them in Yiddish. "You are going to your deaths at Auschwitz. Take your chances in the wilderness."

This created a good deal of consternation among them. The woods were cold. They would be outside. There would be no food at all as opposed to the small amount of scraps that the SS fed them. And what was up with his Yiddish anyway? His accent was funny. Where was he from?

"Warsaw," he said darkly, having barely escaped from there.

Sighs of relief all around. "Oh, that's the problem," they laughed. "We're German Jews, they wouldn't think of doing that to us. Run along now. We will be just fine."

Blogger Sherwood family September 11, 2015 7:29 AM  

For the record, I support an ethnic Jewish state. I think the group of Jews in Israel have every right to defend themselves and their territorial claims. I support ethnic states for any group that wants one for themselves and has the will and wherewithal to control a territory. Of course, the problem with ethnic states is they have neighbors who are different and they usually get to killing one another most of the time, so it isn't all hunky-dory. But you could do much worse than a nation and a territory as an organizing principle. Too bad it is being disallowed in so much of the West.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 11, 2015 7:43 AM  

Not with the Republican party. Ben Carson, Cruz, Jeb Bush, Kaisich, Trump will all do Israel's bidding. The Republican Party is only to happy to do Israel's bidding. All this singles out is that the Democratic Party is not so pro-Israeli.

That Obama is more powerful than AIPAC, the man is truly the messiah!!! (sarc)

Blogger Doom September 11, 2015 7:44 AM  

The Observer,

Sending seculars to Israel? No. Send like to like. Democrats, including secular atheist Jews, will be sent to nations that most fit their profiles. NorK, Cuba, China, Vietnam... atheist for atheist. If Israel doesn't accept them, as you suggest, some nation will. We paid a lot of money, per head, to pull Jews out of the hellholes they helped foment in Russia, at least. Perhaps it is time to pay those governments to take, and process however they wish, those that aren't worthy of Western Civ. Not just Jews. Anyone who chooses to attempt to break down Western ideals. I would love to see Farrakhan in Russia. And his entourage, plus Eminem. Oh, yes. Pleasant thoughts.

Oh, and most Republican politicians and insiders? Europe. They'll fit right in.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 September 11, 2015 7:50 AM  

Shimshon, Samuel Scott, are you both over there? Are you enjoying the sand storm such as there hasn't been in Autumn for 75 years?
The sun will rise darkened and the moon not give it's light before the

Isaiah 13:10, "the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light ......

If the new moon can't be seen Sunday or Monday night do you still blow the Shofar, or is it the Silver trumpet? Can you have a new moon without a trumpet of a Rosh Hashannah without a trumpet? Does a great and terrible day of YHWH sound disturbing? Is Russia provoked beyond incandescent rage? Are all the launch codes hacked? Is Japan beyond incandescent rage? Is China beyond incandescent rage? Is Fukushima paid for? Are 911 accounts settled? Has the smart money already fled?

Blogger Dexter September 11, 2015 7:52 AM  

I was on Capitol Hill this week, and I hadn't seen that many yarmulkes since I went to a friend's bar mitzvah.

I did like their signs -- "What part of DEATH TO AMERICA don't you understand?"

The amazing thing to me is that so many American Jews are enthusiastic about the deal -- which undermines the idea that Jews are really intelligent, heheh. In this case loyalty to the Democrats and to Obama trumps Israel, too bad so sad.

Anonymous Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery September 11, 2015 7:52 AM  

Another party in this is the Catholic church. They have been importing massive numbers of muslims into the US and the EU.

Beh...

Time was when the Pope was the defender of Christendom. Literally, as in raising armies to smite the heathen hordes and Inquisitions to root out the enemy within.

Since the post-hippy freakout that was Vatican 2, the Catholic hierarchy has turned into a bunch of old women who are as soft and mushy as sauteed bird shite on the immigration issue.

Wuv your invaders! Kumbayah milord! Kumba-bumfucking-yah!

But... nobody really listens to them. Certainly not historically Protestant, yet Islamic immigration crazy countries like Britain, Sweden, Holland and Germany.

And if they did listen to them, at least Italians and Spaniards and Frenchies and whatnot wouldn't be aborting and contracepting away their future.

Unfortunately the Church of England is no better. I don't know what's going on in the continental churches.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 7:58 AM  

AIPAC's defeat is a very good thing.

Blogger Nate September 11, 2015 8:02 AM  

Vox...

I love ya man.

But you really shouldn't talk about American politics. You're to far away... and you've been gone to long.


Blogger Chris Mallory September 11, 2015 8:04 AM  

@19 "My favorite is their hobby of sending out operatives an hour or two from cities to attack prayers before football games or county commission meetings,"

But reading various message boards it is the Muslims attacking Christianity in the US. The NeoCons have used their propaganda well.

@20 "Obama will continue to slap the Israelis"
He can slap me to the tune of 3 billion a year, plus arms transfers. Obama has rolled over for Tel Aviv just like every other president since Johnson. Obama and Nuttyahoo play at hating each other, but the gravy train keeps on flowing to Tel Aviv.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 8:06 AM  

And while AIPAC still enjoys the lockstep loyalty of elected Republicans, its left-wing domestic politics, adventurist foreign policy, and pro-immigration stance means it is increasingly anathema to the Republican base.

This is incorrect. If anything, the Iran deal has made loyalty to Israel even more important to republican voters.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 8:12 AM  

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-15/bloomberg-politics-national-poll-finds-deep-partisan-split-on-israel-and-iran

Republicans by a ratio of more than 2-to-1 say the U.S. should support Israel even when its stances diverge with American interests, a new Bloomberg Politics poll finds. Democrats, by roughly the same ratio, say the opposite is true and that the U.S. must pursue its own interests over Israel's.

Anonymous Samuel Scott September 11, 2015 8:15 AM  

the gravy train keeps on flowing to Tel Aviv

What does the United States get from Israel?

Last summer, Hamas fired hundreds of rockets at me in Tel Aviv. Thankfully, after I went back outside from back rooms or basements, I could see straight overhead the smoke from the explosions of the Iron Dome interceptions.

The US helped to fund that anti-missile technology. Israel developed, tested, and deployed it. The US will then also get to use it.

Read all about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

That's just one specific example of many, many, many things in a lot of different sectors and industries. And a lot of the money that Israel gets is loans -- not grants. It's not like Israel is a welfare deadbeat -- as many of its detractors like to claim or insinuate.

Seriously, too many people here have no idea what they're talking about.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 8:17 AM  

The amazing thing to me is that so many American Jews are enthusiastic about the deal -- which undermines the idea that Jews are really intelligent, heheh. In this case loyalty to the Democrats and to Obama trumps Israel, too bad so sad.

Or they could be correct about this deal.

Anonymous Samuel Scott September 11, 2015 8:18 AM  

Are you enjoying the sand storm such as there hasn't been in Autumn for 75 years?

It's miserable. It's a sandstorm combined with a heatwave. I've uploaded two pictures here if people are interested.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 8:22 AM  

Question for the Jewish and Israeli ilk:

What do y'all think about the Iran deal?

Blogger YIH September 11, 2015 8:23 AM  

Hmm, today's date is... Yep, it's right there!
Between July and September, Goldberg had been in contact online with an individual, who was actually an informant. Goldberg had allegedly provided the individual with details on how to fashion a pressure cooker bomb and fill it with nails, metal and other shrapnel dipped in rat poison.
There's a word for that - let me see - oh I know! Chutzpah!

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 11, 2015 8:49 AM  

36. YIH, that's just Goldbergs being Goldbergs.

Anonymous karsten September 11, 2015 8:59 AM  

"Hmm, today's date is... Yep, it's right there!
Between July and September, Goldberg had been in contact online with an individual, who was actually an informant. Goldberg had allegedly provided the individual with details on how to fashion a pressure cooker bomb and fill it with nails, metal and other shrapnel dipped in rat poison.
There's a word for that - let me see - oh I know! Chutzpah!"


More on this guy. He's quite a piece of work:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/australian-is-jihadist-is-actually-an-jewish-american-troll-20150911-gjk852.html

Anonymous Big Bill September 11, 2015 8:59 AM  

@7: "Atheist" is ok in Israel. Universalist/humanist is not.

"Orthodox" is questionable.

Yes, if it means "religious Zionist".

No, if it means "Haredi" (aka draft-dodging, government-oppositional welfare leeches).

Anonymous Big Bill September 11, 2015 9:08 AM  

@38: What a chump! I bet Goldberg got rid of the bomb he built (shown in the photos he posted online) but did he get rid of the table with the distinctive parquet pattern and utterly unique stain on which the bomb was photographed? I doubt it. It is probably still sitting in his parent's basement.

Blogger Dexter September 11, 2015 9:13 AM  

Or they could be correct about this deal.

Since Obama is energetically and successfully working to destroy America on every possible front, that's not the way to bet.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 9:15 AM  

Since Obama is energetically and successfully working to destroy America on every possible front, that's not the way to bet.

This is such a dumb argument. Obama is incredibly lazy. He's not energetically working on anything except his golf game.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 11, 2015 9:16 AM  

"...
Have they ever contributed money or troops to a military engagement that included the United States?
..."


USS Liberty

Yes, that's a joke.

Blogger YIH September 11, 2015 9:28 AM  

Just goes to show that 'The Bell Curve' applies to the tribe as well. On the left side of the bell is Goldberg, on the right side is Silverstein.

Blogger Rabbi B September 11, 2015 9:35 AM  

"AIPAC's defeat is a very good thing."

Yes, it most certainly is.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 11, 2015 9:49 AM  

"42. Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 9:15 AM
Since Obama is energetically and successfully working to destroy America on every possible front, that's not the way to bet.

This is such a dumb argument. Obama is incredibly lazy. He's not energetically working on anything except his golf game."



Yeah, I can see a defense counsel saying,
"He's not a traitor, he's just lazy."

Blogger Chris Mallory September 11, 2015 10:06 AM  

@32, The US gets nothing from that deal.
When the Mexicans or Canadians start lobbing missiles at the US, it might be different. But Iron Dome is nothing but Israeli welfare.

Israel could disappear tomorrow and it would be a net positive for the average American. Oh, the gambling and porn industries might take a hit, but that would be a good thing.

Blogger Chris Mallory September 11, 2015 10:11 AM  

"Have they (Israel) ever contributed money or troops to a military engagement that included the United States? "

Not unless you count a few spooks/torturers that were attached to American prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Turkey sent troops to fight along side Americans during the Korean War.
South Korean sent troops to Vietnam to fight along side Americans.
Syria had troops fighting along side Americans during the first Gulf War.

Israeli troops? They were busy shooting kids on the West Bank and in Lebanon.

Blogger skiballa September 11, 2015 10:27 AM  

@47

Chris, I'll have to disagree, as I (and a few other Americans) benefited from that technology directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugDbAXXk-Oo

It's one of those sounds I'll never forget.

Anonymous Will Best September 11, 2015 10:36 AM  

Don't get me wrong, Jew money is a pretty big deal to the GOP establishment, but there are plenty of other reasons the GOP are against the deal that have nothing to do with Israel.

1) The deal is stupid and doesn't serve American interests.
2) Neocons like their wars... err... military engagements
3) Token resistance to placate the base
etc.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 11, 2015 10:39 AM  

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Israel welcome immigration from anyone 1.) who is at least 1/4 ethnically Jewish and 2.) has not adopted another religion.

We found their weak point, since they fail to recognize that leftism is a religion!

OpenID corvinus333 September 11, 2015 10:40 AM  

How did the world's self proclaimed smartest people get that White Genocide is good for Jews?

Because they stupidly continue to see the Europeans as their rivals for global dominance and not the Chinese, who will murder them all in a heartbeat if someone tells them Jewish testicles are an aphrodisiac.

Seriously, it makes me laugh to think of the Jews trying to cry Holocaust to the Chinese. "The Germans killed SIX MILLION of us, humanity OWES us!"

"Yeah, we Han kill fifty million Chinese, nobody care, what the fuck you think we care about six million who aren't even Han?"


@16 VD
I suspect it also has to do with Europeans having once been Christian. They see high-IQ Christians as a threat -- African Christians get a pass, as do high-IQ non-Christians like the Chinese -- and whereas Europeans are no longer actually Christian, I guess they see them as being potential Christians.

So the goal therefore is to race-mix Europeans out of existence and Islamize them.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 11, 2015 10:40 AM  

Chris, I'll have to disagree, as I (and a few other Americans) benefited from that technology directly.

Bet you would have benefited even more by not being in Basra in the first place though.

Anonymous Samuel Scott September 11, 2015 10:45 AM  

Israeli troops? They were busy shooting kids on the West Bank and in Lebanon.

The US asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because it didn't want to endanger the US-Arab alliance against Iraq. Israel was even asked not to respond when Iraqi scuds hit Tel Aviv (and it complied).

Blogger skiballa September 11, 2015 10:48 AM  

@53

Gaiseric, not my video, I spent over three years of my life between Tikrit and Balad, with some trips to Baghdad and Mosul. I have very mixed feelings about it, not unlike many other Vets. Better we hadn't gone, failing that, better not leaving like we did, it's too late now.

Blogger luagha September 11, 2015 10:57 AM  

@35 The deal is bad for both the US and Israel. It's tactically evil and strategically evil. The US gets nothing and we give away the farm. Dancing around about how bad it is for Israel, however fun, is a side issue.

Why would anyone make such a pointless deal with Iran - that gives them back their frozen money while they actively chant 'Death to America'? One where we get no meaningful inspections and no nothing? It is actively traitorious.

Of course, if one is anti-Israel, one can hope they get nuked first and retaliate.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 11, 2015 11:00 AM  

The US asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because it didn't want to endanger the US-Arab alliance against Iraq. Israel was even asked not to respond when Iraqi scuds hit Tel Aviv (and it complied).

So, we went to war in the Middle East to weaken Israel's foes in the region, and asked Israel to let us handle it? We're so freakin' gamma. :(

Blogger beerme #0183 September 11, 2015 11:06 AM  

I've always viewed the Jews situation throughout history closest to the relationship between a parasite and its host. The parasite initially performed useful roles (usury, tax collection) for the host, but inevitably caused too much harm and the stronger host expelled the parasite once the parasite began to overwhelm the host. Multiculturalism is an attempt to weaken the host's ability to expel the parasite via the introduction of multiple varieties of parasite to weaken the host and overwhelm it with differing symptoms to make treatment difficult.

The parasites are overwhelming the host and the junior parasites are finally strong enough to compete for the host's resources. The senior parasite is now in danger from the host and the junior parasites.

Blogger Alexander September 11, 2015 11:07 AM  

So, we went to war in the Middle East to weaken Israel's foes in the region, and asked Israel to let us handle it? We're so freakin' gamma. :(

We even rode in on a white house.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 11, 2015 11:16 AM  

58. beerme #0183, all correct.

I think the greater danger to the parasite is from the junior parasites, but I don't care what happens if we're gone.

Blogger Chris Mallory September 11, 2015 12:02 PM  

@54
Where were Israeli troops during Vietnam? Oh, that's right, trying to murder all the sailors on the USS Liberty.

#49,

You were a sucker, period. Nothing in Iraq was any business of the West.

Anonymous A Visitor September 11, 2015 12:03 PM  

"Republicans by a ratio of more than 2-to-1 say the U.S. should support Israel even when its stances diverge with American interests, a new Bloomberg Politics poll finds. Democrats, by roughly the same ratio, say the opposite is true and that the U.S. must pursue its own interests over Israel's."

I have no problem supporting Israel when their interests align with ours. Having said that, there are times when our and the Israelis' interests differ. To further expound upon what Sherwood Family said, the Israelis did provide us with some training and equipment used in the counterinsurgency in Iraq in 2004.

The Iranians, for all their rhetoric, will not use a nuclear weapon. They're building it for defensive purposes. Look at what happened after Saddam gave up his quest for a nuclear weapon. Look at what happened in Libya. Having said that, this deal is a joke. Why are we going to unfreeze their oil assets? Why are we taking Suleimani off the listed off sanctioned individuals? The IRGC and Quds Force is a bigger threat to the U.S. than a nuclear armed Iran.

Between the Israelis running the Holy Land or the Palestinians, I'd prefer the Israelis for obvious reasons.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 11, 2015 12:08 PM  

I have no problem supporting Israel when their interests align with ours. Having said that, there are times when our and the Israelis' interests differ. To further expound upon what Sherwood Family said, the Israelis did provide us with some training and equipment used in the counterinsurgency in Iraq in 2004.

Again; the Iraq that we had no business going to in the first place, right? That Iraq?

Thanks, Israel.

Anonymous Sheila September 11, 2015 12:10 PM  

I happened to glance up at the tv monitors in the gym the other day (usually keep my head down to avoid getting unnecessarily agitated) and caught some ad pleading for Americans to "help the People of Israel." Various shots of Bibi and golden domes designed to tug at Christian heartstrings. So is Bib today's Sally Struthers? (I didn't continue watching so I don't recall specifically who sponsored the ad). Other than my rage at the pseudo-refugees overwhelming Europe, I can't bring myself to give a damn about any of the sides of the Middle East fiasco. As Sherwood family #21 said quite well, " I support ethnic states for any group that wants one for themselves and has the will and wherewithal to control a territory. Of course, the problem with ethnic states is they have neighbors who are different and they usually get to killing one another most of the time, so it isn't all hunky-dory. But you could do much worse than a nation and a territory as an organizing principle. Too bad it is being disallowed in so much of the West."

Blogger Were-Puppy September 11, 2015 12:11 PM  

@38

What is this guy, Trans-Jihadi?

Blogger Were-Puppy September 11, 2015 12:13 PM  

@44

That's very interesting. Most insurance policies have endorsements that exclude liability for terrorist attacks.

Blogger skiballa September 11, 2015 12:22 PM  

@61

I joined pre-9/11, I don't recall being given a choice in the matter, but thanks.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 11, 2015 12:26 PM  

What amazes me is that they have to, no matter their politics, understand what is happening. And still they choose to make no course corrections.

Seems to be a pattern. Double down and double down and double down again until it blows up, then the survivors move on to the next host country.

Blogger Josh September 11, 2015 12:48 PM  

Seems to be a pattern. Double down and double down and double down again until it blows up, then the survivors move on to the next host country.

Our managerial class does the same thing with corporations.

Blogger SciVo September 11, 2015 12:50 PM  

Huh. So the disconnect between pro-Israel Democrats in Congress and their pro-Palestine/anti-Israel base couldn't last forever. Weird, it seemed so solid.

Blogger SciVo September 11, 2015 2:26 PM  

You know, just for kicks and giggles, I went back and looked at Roe v. Wade. The plaintiff was a white lesbian -- but who later became a straight Roman Catholic -- and was represented by a white Methodist. The majority decision was handed down by a white Methodist, a white Roman Catholic, a white Episcopalian, a black Episcopalian, and three white Presbyterians. We literally did it to ourselves, and yet...

And yet, ever since reading the estimate of how many white and black babies have been slaughtered just in America since then, I have become immune to "Holocaustianity" (good word). Oh boo hoo, 6 million. BFD.

Just me?

Anonymous Adam1 September 11, 2015 2:31 PM  

@7. I`ld bet a shekel that Bibi`s limo has a bumpersticker that sez:`Aliyah or Bust`. @8. `...who is at least 1/4 ethnically jewish...` That`s funny. I remember a C-Span interview years ago of an Israeli author`s book,`Hitler`s Jewish Soldiers`, who mocked the silly rules and regs that the Wehrmach proscribed allowing their service(1/2,1/4,1/8,etc). Oh wait...double standard. @16. ``...if someone tells them Jewish testicles are an aphrodisiac.`` Oh gawd! I think I ripped my diaphragm at that one. LMAO. @54. True.

Blogger Dexter September 11, 2015 3:12 PM  

Where were Israeli troops during Vietnam? Oh, that's right, trying to murder all the sailors on the USS Liberty.

In point of fact, the most useful thing Israel ever did for us was close the Suez Canal from 1967 to 1973. This forced Soviet supply ships to go from the Black Sea to Hanoi the long way around, via the Cape of Good Hope. This reduced the quantity of Soviet munitions delivered to Hanoi, saving the lives of thousands of American soldiers.

Blogger Dexter September 11, 2015 3:15 PM  

This is such a dumb argument. Obama is incredibly lazy. He's not energetically working on anything except his golf game.

This is such a dumb argument.

He's not destroying America because he is lazy and inattentive. He actively intends to do so. A plus, for him, is that destroying and losing is easier than creating and winning, so the former leaves him plenty of time for golf and vacations.

Blogger Mindstorm September 11, 2015 3:26 PM  

@46 That would be called 'criminal negligence', I guess.

Blogger luagha September 11, 2015 3:37 PM  

@44 @66 Except that the World Trade Center had already been targeted for terrorist attack and had been a subject of an attack in 1993; the bombing that killed 6 people and injured more than a thousand but failed to demolish the buildings.

So it's perfectly sensible to make sure your insurance policy includes something against terrorist attack when you buy the building.

Blogger SciVo September 11, 2015 4:24 PM  

karsten @38:

The irony, it burns! From the article:

"Joshua Ryne Goldberg, a 20-year old living at his parents' house in US state of Florida, is accused of posing online as "Australi Witness," an IS supporter who publicly called for a series of attacks against individuals and events in western countries."
. . .
"In conversations with Fairfax Media, which were also cited in the affidavit, Mr Goldberg had said he did not expect any jihadist to actually carry out an attack because: "These guys are pussy keyboard warriors"."
. . .
"In the leadup to an exhibition in Garland, Texas, at which pictures of the Prophet Mohammed were to be displayed, "Australi Witness" tweeted the event's address and reposted a tweet urging people to go there with "weapons, bombs or with knifes". Two Muslim men attempted an attack at the exhibition, and were killed by police. Australi Witness then praised them online as martyrs."

Lying? Check. Projecting? Check. Doubling down? Check. Odds that he's an SJW? High.

Anonymous bgs September 11, 2015 4:41 PM  

@8 SSWrong, wrong, wrong. Israel welcome immigration from anyone

I am pretty sure the reason one type of jew hates Bibi, is that only the religious jews are breeding in Israel, like to vote, & keep their kids from the bacon eating atheist jews.

How did the world's self proclaimed smartest people get that White Genocide is good for Jews?

Without whites no one will tell the muds that a 500%+ payday loan is a bad idea, and its not like they will behead them to avoid paying.

Don't get me wrong, Jew money is a pretty big deal to the GOP establishment

We send $8billion a year in aid, they spend some of it buying our politicians. Sounds like a bad deal.

Blogger James Dixon September 11, 2015 5:53 PM  

> The US helped to fund that anti-missile technology. Israel developed, tested, and deployed it. The US will then also get to use it.

Samuel, do you really think we can't develop, test, and deploy our own weapons systems? You'll have to come up with something better than that to convince anyone.

Anonymous Discard September 11, 2015 5:54 PM  

I've read that 60% of the money given to the Democrats is from Jews, and 40% of the money given to the GOP. I can't recall the source, but it was Jewish. For the dirt on Jews, I look for them bragging about it, rather than relying on their critics.

Anonymous meh September 12, 2015 4:20 AM  

In point of fact, the most useful thing Israel ever did for us was close the Suez Canal from 1967 to 1973. This forced Soviet supply ships to go from the Black Sea to Hanoi the long way around, via the Cape of Good Hope. This reduced the quantity of Soviet munitions delivered to Hanoi, saving the lives of thousands of American soldiers.

That's a pretty weak argument even by Hasbara standards.

Firstly, the Israelis didn't close the Suez Canal with any intention of effecting the Vietnam war, so they get no credit even if they did us any good, which they did not.

The North Vietnamese were never short of munitions; if it took Soviet freighters a few more weeks or even months to get to Hanoi, so what? They still got there, and not a single American life was "saved" by the delay, since the North Vietnamese never lacked for munitions. The quantity of munitions delivered was NOT reduced.

The Soviets did not practice "just in time" supply chain logistics.You have to be pretty simple minded to think that closing the Suez Canal somehow caused the Vietnamese any shortage in munitions; they had vast stockpiles of the stuff, that they had been building up for years. The Soviets simply adjusted their schedules to account for the delay in the closing of the Suez Canal, and things continued on in Vietnam the same as they would have done had the Suez Canal not been closed.

You guys really think us goyim are incredibly stupid, don't you? Such contempt for the intelligence of your target audience.

Anonymous meh September 12, 2015 4:31 AM  

So it's perfectly sensible to make sure your insurance policy includes something against terrorist attack when you buy the building.

It's the timing of the thing more than anything that sets the conspiracy theorist alarms off.

And surely the previous owners also had terrorism insurance; what would be interesting to see is the precise wording of the insurance policy and how it might have changed from one owner to the next.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit September 12, 2015 11:43 PM  

Support for Israel: It's possible that after 9/11 quite a lot of people decided that anyone fanatic Muslim murderers hate have to be doing something right.

I'm also disappointed in the so-called cleverness of the Ilk as displayed herein: None of the comments indicates that anyone took the time to download the actual poll rather than merely assuming the description of it by the press-donkeys was accurate.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 13, 2015 1:52 AM  

84. The Overgrown Hobbit: "I'm also disappointed in the so-called cleverness of the Ilk as displayed herein: None of the comments indicates that anyone took the time to download the actual poll rather than merely assuming the description of it by the press-donkeys was accurate."

The linked article was on a Senate vote, not an opinion poll. What poll are you referring to?

Blogger Technomad September 13, 2015 2:25 AM  

I have never seen what the Israelis bring to the table that justifies all we do for them. And I can make a case that sans Israel, "fanatical Muslim murderers" would have a lot less motive to strike at us. Admittedly, replaying history is impossible, but I have actually read what the evil Muzzle-ums have said about the whole thing, and Israel's always been a huge grievance.

And I've never understood why, if the Israelis were such a bunch of supermen and -women, they can never seem to wean themselves off our charity. If I were as heavily dependent on, and as heavily in debt to, anybody as they are on us, you can bet I'd be very careful indeed about going against that person's expressed wishes. Instead, the Israelis gobble up our aid and help, and spit on us when we ask them to do things they don't feel like doing just at the moment.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 13, 2015 4:42 AM  

85. Technomad, what you are describing is not charity but parasitism.

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