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Thursday, September 17, 2015

Pseudo-dialectic posturing

It's more than a little bizarre to see a professional rhetorician at the New York Times affecting dialectic in attempting to criticize Donald Trump's superior rhetoric that has dominated this election campaign to date:
What did Trump think of something mean that someone else on the stage had said about him? What did someone else think about something nasty that Trump had said about him or her?

Trump had insulted Jeb Bush’s wife: Discuss! Trump had insulted Carly Fiorina’s business career: Respond!

So it went, somewhat tediously and surreally, for many stretches of the debate on Wednesday night and especially for the first half-hour, during which Rand Paul took the precise measure of — and raised the correct question about — the egomaniacal front-runner.

“Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?” Paul asked.

“I think really there’s a sophomoric quality that is entertaining about Mr. Trump, but I am worried,” he added, and I nodded so vigorously at the “worried” part that I’m going to need balm and a neck brace tomorrow.

Paul went on to single out Trump’s “visceral response to attack people on their appearance — short, tall, fat, ugly. My goodness, that happened in junior high. Are we not way above that?”

No, we aren’t. Or at least Trump isn’t. And “junior high” is too easy on him, too kind. Trump comes from, and belongs in, the sandbox, as he demonstrated the second that Paul paused and Trump fired back: “I never attacked him on his look, and believe me, there’s plenty of subject matter right there.”

How lovely. And how adult.
I look forward to Frank Bruni's next columns: WE MUST DO X BECAUSE I AM GAY AND I AM SAD. Followed by WE MUST DO Y BECAUSE WOMEN ARE UNHAPPY and WE MUST DO Z FOR THE CHILDREN.

You know, communicating the way adults do.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump will review Bruni's column, smile, and promptly announce that the New York Times has declared him the official frontrunner for the Republican nomination.

Labels:

59 Comments:

Anonymous Discard September 17, 2015 4:30 AM  

Who cares if Trump's an asshole? For the moment, he's OUR asshole.

Anonymous Rhys September 17, 2015 4:45 AM  

“Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?” Paul asked.

As opposed to a cuckservative who'd be too busy grovelling?

If Trump were not running what are the odds that this columnist would have been attacking Paul instead?

Anonymous Takin' a look September 17, 2015 4:59 AM  

I wonder what a Trump/Vidal Ticket would be like?
Would Vidal end up an Emeth?

Blogger SciVo September 17, 2015 5:00 AM  

We've had a surfeit of ponces prancing daintily around the issues for far too long. Enough. Time to bring a bull with balls into their precious little made-in-China shop.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop VFM #0167 September 17, 2015 5:12 AM  

"Affecting dialectic" is awfully charitable. Psycho-historical fantasy analysis off the cuff-

Trump think mean someone else think nasty Trump
Trump insulted wife insulted Carly career
tediously surreally stretches debate precise raised egomaniacal front-runner.
someone careless sophomoric quality entertaining Trump, worried vigorously “worried” need balm and neck brace
visceral response attack people appearance short, tall, fat, ugly. goodness way above too easy too kind. Trump sandbox, Trump fired attacked look, believe lovely


Second pass-
Trump think mean nasty Trump. Trump insulted wife insulted Carly. Trump tediously surreally stretches debate. Is precise raised to egomaniacal front-runner.
Someone careless sophomoric quality entertaining Trump. worried vigorously “worried”
Visceral response attack people short, tall, fat, ugly. Goodness way above too easy too kind. Trump sandbox, Trump fired attacked: look, believe lovely.

Third pass-
Trump think mean nasty Trump. Wtf: surreal. Concern: how is precise raised to egomaniacal front-runner.
Someone careless allowed sophomoric quality entertaining Trump. I'm worried, vigorously worried.

Blogger napari September 17, 2015 5:16 AM  

CNN declared in advance the questions were designed to get candidates locking horns and not discussing issues in a meaningful way.
Bread & Circus is what people want and CNN delivered.
"Make America Great Again" Donald Trump 2016

Anonymous kh123 September 17, 2015 5:25 AM  

"Trump comes from, and belongs in, the sandbox,..."

Because politics has never involved mud slinging over the past several decades. Or race baiting over the past several years. Both pol and press have been far above any of that, you see, because nothing says Pharisee quite like "Thank yah Lawdy that I ain't of these uncouth Philistines."

Breast beating sold separately.

Anonymous Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery September 17, 2015 5:27 AM  

Rhys - “Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?” Paul asked.

As opposed to a cuckservative who'd be too busy grovelling?


Zackly.

Has Rand Paul ever dealt with Russians?

They'd be eating out of Trump's hand. Russians love that patriotic macho alpha male stuff.

They despise weak, simpering intellectuals.

That's why they elected Putin.

Anonymous kh123 September 17, 2015 5:30 AM  

@5

"...Is precise raised to egomaniacal front-runner.
Someone careless sophomoric quality entertaining Trump. worried vigorously “worried”
Visceral response attack people short, tall, fat, ugly. Goodness way above too easy too kind..."


Spam emails. So that's how these NYT columnists are picking up spare change.

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 17, 2015 5:54 AM  

I've started an #IStandWithTheDon hashtag on Twitter. I invite the ilk to join in the fun.

Note for the anally retentive: I don't care if you support him or not. Not the point.

Anonymous Kel-Tec PF9 September 17, 2015 6:03 AM  

Hey New York Slimes, 2 things: 0bama, Ukraine. Now tell me agian how antagonizing Pootie-poot is bad... morons.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 September 17, 2015 6:53 AM  

He'll, Rand Paul got rolled by the Jerry Curl Jihad with the blacklivesmatter meme. He wouldn't even be an appetizer for Putin.

I'll say it again: there's no room in this outfit for good losers; we need tough sons of bitches who'll go in there and win!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 17, 2015 6:57 AM  

If the Right did not take the NYTs seriously no one would, another example of the Right used as ratification of the Left.

Blogger Eric September 17, 2015 7:01 AM  

Since he is being attacked, clearly Trump is doing all the right things!

Blogger Josh September 17, 2015 7:18 AM  

It's pretty clear that Trump hates Rand.

Blogger Steveo #238 September 17, 2015 7:24 AM  

Trump's doing the Fosbury while everyone else straddles.

Blogger bob k. mando September 17, 2015 7:28 AM  

So it went, somewhat tediously and surreally, for many stretches of the debate on Wednesday night and especially for the first half-hour, during which Rand Paul took the precise measure of — and raised the correct question about — the egomaniacal front-runner.


so ...
content free bromides and platitudes are A-OK! when Obama ( seriously, "We are the Change we have been waiting for" is as dumb or dumber than any of the Donald's "I'm a Winnarz" comments ) or Hitlery or Biden or Pelosi do it ...

but when somebody with an ( R ) beside their name does it, it's completely unacceptable? because now the NYT has standards?

fuck off, you useless and treasonous twats.

i swear to God, this looks like a reverse psychology op to get the Repug base to vote for Trump. the problem being, this is also perfectly natural who / whom behavior that you would expect from SJWs.

how do you tell the difference between the two options?

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion September 17, 2015 7:41 AM  

“Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?” Paul asked.

Trump knows how to negotiate. He even wrote a bestselling book about it.

So, yes, I want him negotiating with Putin.

Anonymous Stingray September 17, 2015 7:44 AM  

Trump got the NYT to begin to appeal to moderates. Hilarious.

Blogger Salt September 17, 2015 7:49 AM  

Trump was great about being called out on his remarks about Carly. He didn't give a damn.

Anonymous Fran September 17, 2015 8:15 AM  

Trump would work well with Putin. They being fellow alphas. He would bring out the natural alliance between our 2 nations toward the struggle against Islam.

Anonymous Tom Joad September 17, 2015 8:16 AM  

Donald Trump is an adolescent buffoon who knows absolutely nothing about governing or foreign policy. (Actually calling him an adolescent is too kind. By his own admission, his character hasn't changed since he was six. He'd have to mature considerably before calling him an adolescent would no longer be an insult to adolescents.) His presidency would be a domestic disaster and a global nightmare.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan September 17, 2015 8:22 AM  

There once was a debater named Trump,
He gave each opponent a thump,
When he'd get shellacked,
He smiled, then attacked,
And on the remains, took a dump.

Blogger bob k. mando September 17, 2015 8:23 AM  

22. Tom Joad September 17, 2015 8:16 AM
His presidency would be a domestic disaster and a global nightmare.



[ looks at Obama, Clinton, Johnson and Carter presidencies, Clinton and Kerry terms as Sec of State ]


so, is what yer sayin is, Donald Trump is wholly qualified to carry the glorious US domestic and foreign policies forward to their natural conclusion?

Anonymous Peter Garstig September 17, 2015 8:25 AM  

Isn't it a left-wing power point to hand more power to the children? By their own logic, Trump should be their top candidate then. Straight out of the sandbox.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 17, 2015 8:50 AM  

I didn't watch the thing; I had to wash my hair. But it was fun to check into Twitter and see how certain people were frantically boosting certain candidates -- usually without mentioning anything they actually said, just talking about their great demeanor or whatever -- and extrapolate from that to what was really happening.

Anonymous Soga September 17, 2015 8:56 AM  

@1 Who cares if Trump's an asshole? For the moment, he's OUR asshole.

The asshole really doesn't get thanked enough. I mean, it's a pretty important body part. It gets the shït out of the body.

Hopefully, likewise, Trump will get the shït out of America.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 17, 2015 9:00 AM  

Someone on Twitter had a good line: it's like Trump is a cow on the train tracks -- except that the cow is made of train and the train is made of cow.

Blogger Quizzer W September 17, 2015 9:09 AM  

Yes, the NY Times has standards: double ones. Yellow journalism has been around forever, that isn't the problem. The problem is the elected 'pubes give it any credence whatsoever. They haven't figured out we aren't in 1990 any longer, and there are a ton of very important ways to reach their base, which they go out of their way to insult.

Trump, Fiorina, Bush... which one has the best chances of Whigging the Republican party so we can actually get real alternatives? Not that the Democrats are doing much better, the civil war erupting in their party is going quietly unnoticed, for now.

And right there with you Cail, my carrots weren't going to chop themselves.

Blogger Dexter September 17, 2015 9:16 AM  

"Donald Trump is an adolescent buffoon who knows absolutely nothing about governing or foreign policy."

Unlike Obama, whose "governing" and "foreign policy" remain unmitigated disasters even after six years on the job. Is our President learning? (No... incapable of it... toxic narcissist thinks he's perfect already.)

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 17, 2015 9:18 AM  

VD,

Were you impressed by Trump's rhetoric last night?

I'm surprised if you were. It was nothing more than "I'll make us great, but I don't know how, but with a team." He said nothing of rhetorical note.

At least Fiorina saw the chance to catch him on the "misspeaking," which I know women everywhere must have clapped for.

Anonymous BGS September 17, 2015 9:22 AM  

Trump would at least be able to get 5 hostages in trade for Iran getting nukes.

If Trump were not running what are the odds that this columnist would have been attacking Paul instead?

When leftists defend politicians they are saying "Leave our cucks alone"

His presidency would be a domestic disaster and a global nightmare.

Trump will get a Nobel prize at the end of his presidency not the beginning. Opps awkward http://nationalreport.net/obama-receive-second-nobel-peace-prize/

Blogger bob k. mando September 17, 2015 9:23 AM  

31. NorthernHamlet September 17, 2015 9:18 AM
He said nothing of rhetorical note.


[ facepalm ]

everything he said was rhetorical ... by your own testimony.

and *you* might not care for it, but it sure got Obama elected.

Blogger ScuzzaMan September 17, 2015 9:31 AM  

Sogs

I will steal your line out of sheer admiration, to add to my brewing Twitterstorm:

"Maybe Trump is an asshole, but when you're full of shit ... ?"

#IStandWithTheDon

Blogger Cail Corishev September 17, 2015 9:38 AM  

At least Fiorina saw the chance to catch him on the "misspeaking," which I know women everywhere must have clapped for.

I saw a couple of them doing the flounce on Twitter. But here's the thing: anyone who knows a bit about Game -- which certainly includes Trump, whether he calls it that or not -- knows that when women claim to be offended on the outside, they're often attracted on the inside. What women say is irrelevant, and what they say on social media is irrelevant squared. As long as he doesn't apologize, it won't hurt him with women at all -- may even give him a boost -- and he'll basically be immune to future cries of sexism.

Blogger Alexander September 17, 2015 9:40 AM  

Meanwhile, the current President of the United States is taking time out of his busy schedule trying to bring more non-Americans into America to tell us what racist Islamaphobes we are because a kid with a suitcase 'clock' got in trouble with the police, and no child in America has ever, ever faced an overwhelming reaction from authorities before.

#StandWithTheDon

Anonymous Brother Thomas September 17, 2015 9:43 AM  

@2

Hmm, I'd put the odds at... say... something like 100%.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 17, 2015 9:52 AM  

bob k. mando,

... yes, and?


Cail Corishev,

Sure, but in terms of rhetoric, that was more of note than anything that Trump said.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 17, 2015 10:23 AM  

NorthernHamlet,

As I said, I didn't watch it, so I can't say you're wrong. But since Trump communicates almost entirely in rhetoric, it seems unlikely. Perhaps his rhetoric wasn't good or effective, but it's hard to imagine it being non-existent.

The "I'll take care of women" line that caused Twitter flouncing had to be rhetoric. I don't know what he was asked, but I'm sure it wasn't, "Will you take care of women?" It was probably something like, "This fine upstanding Republican candidate over here (nudge nudge to voters) says that you have said offensive things about women. How do you respond to that?" Am I close?

But instead of answering the question directly with the apology and backing-down they expected, he went sideways with what was almost a non-sequiter. In Game terms, he agreed and amplified: Oh, your panties are in a bunch? Well, here's something to twist them a little harder.

The interesting thing is that he had to know that angle was coming, so he had to have a response prepared for it. Was that it? Or did he decide to ad-lib it because he didn't like how the prepared angle fit?

Anonymous The other robot September 17, 2015 11:09 AM  

because a kid with a suitcase 'clock' got in trouble with the police,

There are some interesting details about that kid that the media are not telling us. I wonder what it is?

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 17, 2015 12:17 PM  

Cail,

Am I close?

Yeah it was something along those lines. Sure, the guy doesn't grovel... but I'm not seeing any rhetorical mastermind at work here.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 17, 2015 12:31 PM  

I'm not seeing any rhetorical mastermind at work here.

In that regard, he may be the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, but that's good enough to make it interesting.

Blogger Danby September 17, 2015 12:36 PM  

"... I'm not seeing any rhetorical mastermind at work here."

perhaps not. I didn't watch (I had an important game of solitaire to attend to). The problem with your statement is that he's the ONLY ONE speaking rhetoric. He's the only Alph, he's the only one with Game.

Hell, the cashier at the grocery store last night was all on about how he had slapped ol' Carly around the way she deserved.
You will not believe the number of women and Blacks that will wind up voting for this guy. Mexicans too.

Blogger BunE22 September 17, 2015 12:53 PM  

@40
"because a kid with a suitcase 'clock' got in trouble with the police,

There are some interesting details about that kid that the media are not telling us. I wonder what it is?"

How's this for weird? A couple of days ago I had on my local news channel but I wasn't paying attention. I caught something about a foiled plot by a 15 year old to kill the Pope at his NYC visit. I didn't see anything else about it.

I tried to find it online and at first thought it might have been a foiled plot from years ago that the news was bringing up. I eventually found one recent story about it by a NY paper where they didn't mention age and said the police aren't giving out any info at this time. I'm not saying these are related, just that there really is suppression of info these days.

Then I find out that my county spent 50 million dollars on swapping our police radio transmissions to an encrypted digital system. I found an article online that said this is happening across the country. The excuse that criminals all have apps to know when the cops are coming is a lame excuse to me. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to have those apps banned?

I'm not a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but they make it easy to become one. Why are tax payers being kept out of the loop with regard to public safety issues? The media has complained that this will make it very difficult for them to report on crime. Isn't this bringing us one step closer to a police state? Am I overreacting?

Blogger RobertT September 17, 2015 1:16 PM  

"Trump had insulted Jeb Bush’s wife: Discuss! Trump had insulted Carly Fiorina’s business career: Respond!"

Why should anyone apologize for good taste? Carly's latest thing is "look at this face," which surely just reminds people of Trump's dig. Honestly, Trump is so good at this stuff, I'm starting to think the founders had it right, No professional politicians need apply.

Blogger RobertT September 17, 2015 1:37 PM  

I was recently forced to buy an online subscription to the NYT because of one article I wanted to read. I haven't been back since. And this article does nothing to disabuse me of my original reluctance. My favorite thing in the entire paper used to be their devotion to gay wedding announcements in their Sunday supplement. I suppose some day historians will look back on this newspaper and say, this paper documented to downfall of American Civilization.

Blogger RobertT September 17, 2015 1:39 PM  

The article was on Roger Stone so you can imagine how important it was that I read it. "The only man in America that Lee Atwater was afraid of."

Blogger RobertT September 17, 2015 1:42 PM  

By the way, your friend Milo made the Rush Limbaugh show recently according to somebody who tweeted Limbaugh's web site. Limbaugh spoke very nicely about him.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 17, 2015 1:49 PM  

Sort of on topic: Did y'all see this? How tall are presidential candidates?

Sigh. Might as well go all the way and ask which candidate generates the most leg tingles.

At least its—for once—likely to work out in our favor.

Blogger Danby September 17, 2015 3:29 PM  

Gaiseric,
did you see this:
Bush stands on toes to be taller than Trump
It's at least as bad a you think.

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 17, 2015 3:42 PM  

What women's suffrage hath wrought.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2015 8:00 PM  

“Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?” Paul asked.

I have it on good authority that anybody who attacks Trump is Doomed.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2015 8:01 PM  

Which probably also means Putin, China, Mexicans, muslim hordes.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2015 8:11 PM  

@19 Stingray
Trump got the NYT to begin to appeal to moderates. Hilarious.
---

They must be paying attention to all the Cuckservative butthurt. One thing Trump has done is turn the light on, so we can observe the cuckroaches panic and rush around.

The good thing about that light is showing me the places I need to clean up, and throw into the garbage.

Almost every day Boortz whines and cries about Trump.
Same with Erickson. Same with National Review.

These people are obsessed with Trump like the election itself is happening tomorrow.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2015 8:13 PM  

@22 Tom Joad
Donald Trump is an adolescent buffoon who knows absolutely nothing about governing or foreign policy. (Actually calling him an adolescent is too kind. By his own admission, his character hasn't changed since he was six. He'd have to mature considerably before calling him an adolescent would no longer be an insult to adolescents.) His presidency would be a domestic disaster and a global nightmare.
---

Relax man, the election is a long way off.

Blogger James Dixon September 17, 2015 8:45 PM  

> There are some interesting details about that kid that the media are not telling us. I wonder what it is?"

Like his name being Ahmed Mohamed, you mean?

Anonymous George of the Jungle September 18, 2015 1:22 AM  

Lately it's been fun to hie over to National Review and observe the hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth now regularly directed at Trump.

I guess being a cuckservative bitch has lost some of its charm.

Anonymous shadow #0342 September 18, 2015 6:05 PM  

“visceral response to attack people on their appearance — short, tall, fat, ugly. My goodness, that happened in junior high. Are we not way above that?”

That's a little naive. Politics is like a cross between Jerry Springer show, and a homecoming king election. Or has Rand never heard of the Brooks/Sumner incident and the election of 1800?

"“Do we want someone with that kind of character, that kind of careless language, to be negotiating with Putin?”

I get the feeling that any meeting between Putin and Trump would involve a strip club.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 18, 2015 6:22 PM  

I get the feeling that any meeting between Putin and Trump would involve a strip club.

I was gonna say they could do a lot better than that, but then I remembered that Trump sold off Miss Universe. Even so: they could do better than that.

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