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Monday, September 21, 2015

Rise of the ultras

The result of the recent Greek parliamentary election is in line with my prediction of the European ultra-nationalists coming to power in two election cycles.
Golden Dawn, one of Europe’s most violent far-right parties, has emerged as one of the biggest winners of Sunday’s general election in Greece, consolidating its presence in parliament and power on the streets. The neo-fascist group came in third with 7% of the vote, behind the triumphant leftwing Syriza and conservative New Democracy....

“Golden Dawn is a movement of power, it is not a protest movement any more,” the party’s Swastika- tattooed spokesman, Ilias Kasidiaris, told Star TV as it became clear that the extremists had retained their position as the country’s third biggest political force. “Golden Dawn is the only party seeing an increase in its percentage. In October when Greeks begin to experience the consequences of the memorandum and illegal immigration you will see our support increase radically,” said the former marine, berating the country’s mainstream media for boycotting the party.

With 18 MPs in the 300-seat house, around 500,000 Greeks cast ballots in favour of Golden Dawn. The organisation performed especially well in Attica, the greater Athens region and the Aegean islands of Lesbos and Kos where voter support doubled. Both islands have been overwhelmed in recent months by thousands of refugees and migrants fleeing conflict and poverty.

Golden Dawn’s anti-immigrant stance at a time of mounting fears over Greece’s frontline role in Europe’s biggest humanitarian crisis in recent history, almost certainly helped. The party, portraying itself as the “only nationalist choice” played heavily on fears that Greeks could soon become a minority in their own country. But, so too, did its shrill opposition to the internationally sponsored bailout accords, or memoranda, that the extremists have said amount to “ethnocide” or death of the nation. Polls showed that some 16.6% of those who voted for Golden Dawn were victims of record levels of unemployment – the most grievous side-effect of massive budget cuts and lay-offs enforced as the price of being bailed out to the tune of €326bn creditors in the EU and International Monetary Fund (IMF).

“In terms of absolute numbers Golden Dawn was the only party to hold its ground,” said Aristides Hatzis, political commentator and Athens University professor.
The Fascists and the National Socialists came to power in the 1930s because they were the most credible options available to the Italian and German publics at the time. Don't confuse the beginnings with the ends; 1933 was not 1941 or even 1939. Fascists were not elected with the idea that they would throw in with German imperialism (it is usually forgotten that Mussolini was an ally of France and Great Britain and only threw in with Germany after Great Britain betrayed Italian interests), and the National Socialists were not elected because they promised they would invade the Soviet Union, slaughter the Jews in Eastern Europe, and get Germany into a war with the USA.

One can't learn anything useful about the future prospects of revolutionary parties by what other revolutionary parties did AFTER they came to power, one can only learn about their prospects by looking at what the other parties were doing BEFORE they came to power.

The worst thing about the established anti-nationalist European parties is that they have failed so spectacularly that even the violently murderous anti-immigrant parties will be preferred to them by even the most sane and civilized elements of the electorate. In a time of invasion, it doesn't matter how dangerous the only party willing to defend you might be, what matters is that they are the only ones willing to defend you, your family, and your children.

As for those who are historically ignorant enough to point out that Golden Dawn only won 18 seats in the Greek parliament with 7 percent of the vote and therefore will never come to power, I will type very, very slowly and point out that in 1928, five years before they took power, the National Socialist Workers Party won 12 seats in the German parliament with 2.6 percent of the vote.

Two election cycles. And then you will see an absolute sea change in Europe. And if the EU attempts to entirely abandon even the pretense of democracy in defense of the invasion, the change will come even faster. And harder.

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138 Comments:

Blogger Rantor September 21, 2015 5:12 AM  

In less than six months, the Greeks go from voting against the EU deal to voting for EU/IMF debt-slavery. Really sad. meanwhile just watched a YouTube video of immigrants running through the streets of Germany, attacking a Polizei van, and generally being a nuisance. The German voices reacting were not happy, the women's voices were scared. Way to go Ms Merkel, drive the moderates and liberals to a desire for law and order that you fail to provide. Hell Germans think Jay-Walking is a terrible crime...

Blogger Peter P. VFM #438 September 21, 2015 5:18 AM  

What are we to do when they come to power? How long do we let them run things before they pose a danger to our nation, the nation that they swear they will protect?

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 21, 2015 5:46 AM  

My heart is very heavy with concern over this Muslim invasion of Europe. Our homeland, our Fatherland, is being overrun by Semites and a Hostile religion. It pains me to no end.

The great evil and the death of Europe is the Liberal. For some reason, he is a natural gnostic, a hater of reality and seeks to implement a utopia. He hates the Church and so what happens, Europe is committing suicide and the Church abets this. And then it is no wonder that many European nationalists are anti-Christian. I mean it is a no-win situation. I'm all for Golden Dawn's push for nationalism and the end of immigration but it is also anti-Christian.

Why can't we have a Christian nationalism on lines of Martel and the Reconquista?

Blogger James Dixon September 21, 2015 5:50 AM  

> How long do we let them run things before they pose a danger to our nation, the nation that they swear they will protect?

What makes you think they will become more of a danger than the existing parties?

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 6:00 AM  

Why can't we have a Christian nationalism on lines of Martel and the Reconquista?

We can. But people like you need to focus on it, sell it, and stop attacking those who don't agree perfectly with your perspective 100 percent. House divided and all that.

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 6:01 AM  

What are we to do when they come to power? How long do we let them run things before they pose a danger to our nation, the nation that they swear they will protect?

It's not a given that they will. It totally depends upon whether one gets a Hitler, a Tito, or a Cincinnatus. But right now, don't worry about them. They are not the problem. Worry about today's problem's today.

Blogger Peter P. VFM #438 September 21, 2015 6:05 AM  

@4
The main reason i don't support them, is because i know people inside GD and they confirm that the 3 main people(Michaloliakos, Kasidiaris and Lagos) do indeed push the ideological core of the party as the spiritual successors of the Nazi party(maybe i just butchered the English language).

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler September 21, 2015 6:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sherwood family September 21, 2015 6:55 AM  

My fear is the cyclical nature of what comes after the ultras. We are living where nationalism is a dirty word because of the work of nationalists of a previous era. It was that anti-nationalist/global liberal order that was ushered in as a backlash against the nationalist movements of the Nazis, the Fascists, and the Showa period of Japanese nationalism that created the policies/cultural views that have lead to the present multicultural insanity.

My fear is that the Golden Dawns, Le Front Nationals, and the other nationalist parties will succeed in driving out foreign elements but succeed in a way that brands love of country and nationalism as anathema for another 70 years or so.

I am not sure if I am more afraid of their success or their failure. If promoting the interests of one's nation had not undergone a thoroughgoing subversion following WWII, a process which accelerated to ludicrous speed after the end of the Cold War, we would not be where we are today.

Blogger DadOfTen September 21, 2015 7:04 AM  

No form of government can work well when the people are unrighteous. Any form of government will work well if the people are righteous. Brutal dictatorships only arise when the people refuse to be governed by any other means. And even those fail miserably. Even democracy works if the people only want what is their just reward.

Historically you see governments fall apart as the difference between right and wrong becomes a guess and not a reality. Bread and circuses governments teach people to unrighteously demand satiation when they have done nothing to earn it. When they don't get what they want, the line between what is rightfully mine and what I should be able to take because it is owed to me becomes blurred. Just look at our riots. Looting appears to be the real driver of the riots. Then follows a demand for the area to be rebuilt in order to be "fair".

Sexual immorality from pornography thru fornication, adultery, and the gay or swinging lifestyles destroys the foundation of family life. Trust, respect, and the building of close permanent relationships is destroyed. Children are raised by one parent or the foster state. Abuse of children rises dramatically as desperate mothers hook up with whatever men will agree to put up with the children of other men. The children lose all sense of family, morality, work ethic, and order. They become the prey of gangs and parties of hate. The destruction of the family then brings about all the plagues described by prophets and scriptures.

It appears that in Greece that many of the immigrants who are coming in are used to even more chaos, less morality, and more rampant lawlessness than the Greeks accept from their government now. Those immigrants demand more welfare care or they will explode as a group.

It isn't the immigrants alone causing the problems. It is also the natives who accept immorality in all the guises that destroy public morality and the family. As the family goes, so goes the nation.

Blogger Michael September 21, 2015 7:12 AM  

My grandmother was German. When I was about 11 I asked her, " Why did Hitler come to power?". She told me:

you have no job. - then you have a job,
You have no food- you have food,
You have no hope - you have hope

You will believe anything that he tells you.

This, from a woman with the equivalent of an 8 th grade education. years later in college, studying economics, I found out that she was right.

I still miss the chocolate cookie care packages she sent to me.

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 7:13 AM  

The main reason i don't support them, is because i know people inside GD and they confirm that the 3 main people(Michaloliakos, Kasidiaris and Lagos) do indeed push the ideological core of the party as the spiritual successors of the Nazi party(maybe i just butchered the English language).

And yet you will when the only options are worse.

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 7:22 AM  

Wheeler, SHUT THE FUCK UP. You, and your CONSTANT desire to attack those who are your potential allies, are a serious part of the problem.

No more lectures here. No more "corrections" of other commenters. Stop tearing down those who are more or less on your side. For someone who loves the Greeks, you really need to read more Aristotle.

Perfect understanding is not persuasion.

Blogger Peter P. VFM #438 September 21, 2015 7:26 AM  

@12
Sadly this is true.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2015 7:40 AM  

the entertaining thing on this side of the pond is how the lefties twist themselves in knots about all these ultra nationalist parties having success in europe.

On the one hand.... they practically worship europe for its progessive ways... and yet when you mention something like Golden Dawn or even UKIP... they revert to "that could never happen here."

Blogger James Sullivan September 21, 2015 7:44 AM  

"Don't confuse the beginnings with the ends; 1933 was not 1941 or even 1939. Fascists were not elected with the idea that they would throw in with German imperialism (it is usually forgotten that Mussolini was an ally of France and Great Britain and only threw in with Germany after Great Britain betrayed Italian interests), and the National Socialists were not elected because they promised they would invade the Soviet Union, slaughter the Jews in Eastern Europe, and get Germany into a war with the USA."

This. Why is this so hard for some people to wrap their brain around? Are people that afraid of being painted with the Nationalist label that they can't bear to talk about why the Nationalists succeeded?


OpenID ymarsakar September 21, 2015 7:45 AM  

the entertaining thing on this side of the pond is how the lefties twist themselves in knots about all these ultra nationalist parties having success in europe.


They usually automatically plant them as fascists and ultra right wing nuts, same as guns and bible clingers in the US, same with Southern conservatives and non Leftists.

The Leftist alliance has mobilized enough assets that they are going all in. Nobody can stop them now, except through Civil War II or its like.

http://www.lyricsbox.com/the-cr%C3%BCxshadows-lyrics-winterborn-this-sacrifice-pr8pt1h.html

Dry your eyes and quietly bear this pain with pride
For heaven shall remember the silent and the brave
And promise me they will never see, the fear within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
We will give strength to those who still remain

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

(I've waited all day in the pouring rain, but nobody came, no, nobody came)

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith is come
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winter born

Hold your head up high-for there is no greater love
Think of the faces of the people you defend
(you defend)
And promise me, they will never see the tears within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
Although we are men, with mortal sins, angels never cry

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate


I picked up that song around 2007 or 08, and it meant something very different to me than to others I found at the time. Perhaps less so now.

Blogger Unplugged Beta September 21, 2015 7:48 AM  

@3
"And then it is no wonder that many European nationalists are anti-Christian. I mean it is a no-win situation. I'm all for Golden Dawn's push for nationalism and the end of immigration but it is also anti-Christian."

In a sane world, I would find this comment immensely offensive, but I should not be surprised given how the media portrays us. I can't speak for other country's parties, but I want to impress upon you that Golden Dawn is deeply Orthodox.

It is annoying; on the one hand we are made out to be neo-nazis who cling to neo-pagan beliefs (ridiculous) and on the other we are called "Ultra-religious" (correct) as if that is a terrible, terrible indictment on our political party.

To understand why we are anti-invader, you must understand that these people are not doing anyone any favors, least of all themselves. Not only are they destroying our lives, but their very own by flooding our tiny islands.

You must also understand that food & healthcare is denied to the average Greek while these invaders are taken care of.

I am of the diaspora so I too am fat and happy as you are (I am pre-supposing), but our family on the islands are suffering and literally, I must stress this, literally dying. I must stress this again: we are dying in a supposedly first world nation because of food and medicine being denied us while germany slakes its thirst on our national assets and the influx of cheap workers suffocating our people.

If you think we sound angry: Man is fallen and, as a result, man becomes angry when he is choked with grief.

If you truly want to help these invaders, then do something about the United States funding terrorism in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Macedonia, Serbia, Russia, Ukraine, and Armenia.

Blogger Alexander Thompson September 21, 2015 7:51 AM  

I feel this ties into what I heard on the radio this morning driving in. Ben Carson said that a muslim can't be president and it clashes with our traditions of law.

The folks on the radio were appalled. I just wondered "why does our culture have to be so transitory?"

Blogger DadOfTen September 21, 2015 7:56 AM  

@18 - Are you saying that government welfare is denied the natives while being given to the immigrants? It almost sounded like a native with a job cannot get food. I suspect you are only complaining about food not being freely given away to natives too.

Blogger Plump Pleasant Plumber September 21, 2015 8:00 AM  

I wonder what will happen to Feminism when the borders close and the Nationalists come to power? How can this problem be dealt with?

OpenID karsten0 September 21, 2015 8:10 AM  

"If promoting the interests of one's nation had not undergone a thoroughgoing subversion following WWII, a process which accelerated to ludicrous speed after the end of the Cold War, we would not be where we are today."

This is concern trolling at its finest: blaming nationalism for the fact that the Cultural Marxists led a sly, crafty, merchant propaganda campaign against nationalism. This is the definition of Cuckservative thinking: "Oh, no, we can't defend race, because then the Leftists will cal us racists." That craven cowardice, that kind of fearing-bad-press is how we got into this mess in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with the ultras. Nothing. Whether they're pro-Christianity or anti-Christianity or, rightly, put important matters ahead of Christianity is utterly irrelevant. There are far more pressing matters at hand.

Christianity is good if it promotes nationalism (Poland, Hungary), but bad if it opposes nationalism and promotes liberalism (Western Europe). It's that simple.

The sooner the ultras get into power, if they can, the better. They're Europe's last hope, no less.

Blogger CM September 21, 2015 8:13 AM  

No form of government can work well when the people are unrighteous...

How is it that what is intuitive to the readers here is so violently rejected by so many?

Its a rhetorical question, but the frustration is real.

I miss Beau. He was a reminder to pray.

Blogger JAY WILL September 21, 2015 8:13 AM  

The deluded low t lefty actually sees the bigger more brutish looking male and thru fear is happy to empower govt to weaken him. The islamists and various other groups are understood only thru abstract thought, as the oppressed. The lefty will soon pray for the brute to be released from his progessive chains as he sees his abstract thoughts dont fit with the reality around him.

Blogger Jourdan September 21, 2015 8:13 AM  

@11 Michael - What you heard from you Grandmother about the Nazis mirrors what I heard from German immigrants as a boy/young man in and around Anaheim, California. (It's not well known, but Anaheim--Home on the Ana River--was a German settlement in Southern California). They had a club with the interesting name of the Phoenix Club in town. It would only take them a little bit to loosen up and then they would explain the absolute powerlessness and hopelessness the German people felt during the Weimar period and what a ray of light the Nazis were.

As VD states above, no one at that time was voting for all-out war or thinking all the Jews would be killed. They were thinking just what your grandma was thinking: the place went from no hope and degenerate culture to hopeful and a healthy culture in just a matter of months.

I heard much the same thing many years later from the German emigre community in Los Angeles (including Leni Reifenstahl herself, one memorable night).

The parallels between the Weimar period and now are strong, very strong. I expect VD is correct. What remains to be seen is: will Europe's re-birth provoke an American movement in solidarity or will be face the new Europe as an enemy?

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 21, 2015 8:16 AM  

I wonder what will happen to Feminism when the borders close and the Nationalists come to power? How can this problem be dealt with?

When push comes to shove, feminism will be dealt with on its own without any overt need to deal with it by non-feminists. Most women are not feminists. And even those who claim to be feminists are mostly "soft feminists" who see it as a way to get the best of both worlds. When feminism is used to actually give women the equality they claim to want, in a more resource poor, stressed environment where conflict is open and relatively common, then nobody will claim to be a feminist and the ideology will be abandoned in droves.

Women are usually cunning enough to see to their own needs. In the absence of an ersatz daddy/husband figure in the government that can provide what an actual daddy/husband figure can provide, they won't be interested in pursuing the ideology anymore. Heck, with the repeated failures of our government to provide security and safety (or even the illusion of such) the ideology is already seriously on the wane.

Even as its more vocal supporters become yet more shrill. The reason for that is because they see the decline of their ideology happening rapidly in real time around them.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 8:17 AM  

I feel this ties into what I heard on the radio this morning driving in. Ben Carson said that a muslim can't be president and it clashes with our traditions of law.

The Breitbart stormtrumpers are frantically searching for their fainting couches.

‏@NolteNC

It's not politically incorrect to say a Muslim shouldn't be president. It's un-American.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 21, 2015 8:19 AM  

There are several "types" of nationalists: Nazis, fascists, and Golden Dawn are socialist nationalists. Like all socialists, they are also perforce statists, and thus both ignorant and dangerous. The only difference between them and communists---also extreme statists---is that communists are internationalists rather than nationalists. All are socialists. The combination of socialism and statism is murderously dangerous.

Yet nationalism need not be socialist OR statist. The Donald Trump phenomenon may be the emergence of a non-socialist, non-statist nationalism. Or rather, "re-emergence", since the U.S. has historically been nationalist, but non-socialist and non-statist.

Blogger Durandel Almiras September 21, 2015 8:22 AM  

What are the chances that some of these Nationalist parties not only perform an immigrant purge, but a rabbit purge as well?

I would vote in a heartbeat for a party that would kick both of them out.

Blogger njartist September 21, 2015 8:23 AM  

"I mean it is a no-win situation. I'm all for Golden Dawn's push for nationalism and the end of immigration but it is also anti-Christian."

Since this will come around to the U.S. choices for president; most likely in whining about Trump, I say this: There are no Christians in any meaningful sense of the word running for the presidency; the real question is whether or not Trump will have the fortitude to do the necessary and bloody work to re-establish the Republic or at least take it back to a point where we can begin the long, serious work of restoration: we have to go back over one hundred years to undo the elites' plans.

Again, has Churchiantiy produced anyone who could or would do the bloody work? No. Will Cuckianity? No. And, from what I have read here, most here would reject Cromwell: and he is exactly what is needed::"Oh, No! He let the Juuus in!" "Oh, No! He's a damned Judaizing Protestant!"

OpenID karsten0 September 21, 2015 8:24 AM  

"My fear is that the Golden Dawns, Le Front Nationals, and the other nationalist parties will succeed in driving out foreign elements but succeed in a way that brands love of country and nationalism as anathema for another 70 years or so."

That's your fear? Branding? Heaven forefend that the ultras get in, because of . . . branding. What a perfectly cuckservative mindset.

Not until people stop caring about being "branded," or, better still, take being "branded" negatively by the Cultural Marxists as a badge of honour and actively seek it -- because being so branded would mean that one were doing something right -- will we get anywhere.

If "driving out foreign elements" is done right, then those adept at "branding" will be asked kindly to do their branding somewhere else.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 8:27 AM  

There are no Christians in any meaningful sense of the word running for the presidency

What do you mean by "in any meaningful sense?"

Blogger Hammerli280 September 21, 2015 8:29 AM  

I'm not worried about this current crop of nationalists. They aren't expansionist, but defensive groups. As opposed to the Nazis and Communists, who were aggressively expansionist.

OpenID elijahrhodes September 21, 2015 8:33 AM  

the party’s Swastika- tattooed spokesman, Ilias Kasidiaris, told Star TV as it became clear that the extremists had retained their position as the country’s third biggest political force.

Considering that the media always portrays those with even the mildest nationalist leanings as being swastica-clad neo-fascists, I never take anything they write at face value. I know almost nothing about the Golden Dawn party, but five minutes worth of research reveals that they, themselves, do not claim to be Nazis:

Media figures use labels like this to get the general public to not listen to what we have to say or to try and understand who and what we are. Any rational person, who knows common Greek people, either in Greece or abroad knows that Greek nationalists fought the Axis Occupation in WWII and many of us have grandparents or relatives who died doing so. The strong resistance of our nation during that period was due to Ioannis Metaxas, a leader who by today’s had an ideology that would be labeled “Fascist” or “Neo-Nazi” if it existed today. He was responsible for our preparation of that resistance, not tolerant “Social Democrats”. Metaxas was a leader who believed Greece was for Greeks, and rejected the Axis, the Allies, and the Communists all at once.

Make no mistake, we are Greek Nationalists, and despite what the BBC or CNN has to say, as such we are going to have some basic similarities with other Nationalists around the world, be they Tibetan, German, Somali , Taiwanese or Indian nationalists. Of course, you won’t hear a BBC reporter calling a Somali Nationalist a “Neo-Nazi”.

The only reason they call us “Neo-Nazi” is because we are a country in Europe, the Occident, and they know if they use that term, they can get other Europeans to think we are crazed lunatics rather than normal people with families and a culture we want to protect. We stand in the way of the bankers plan to enslave us with their “European Union” and to destroy our national identity.

Blogger Hammerli280 September 21, 2015 8:35 AM  

I''ll add that Hitler came to power because he was aggressively anti-Communist, and split the difference on other political issues.

If you look at German politics ca. 1930, you've got the Communists spouting red revolution (i.e. Soviet-style civil war + massacres). Against them you have the monarchists, who have the will to stop the Communists but not the strength; and the Social Democrats, who have the strength but not the will.

Which left an opening for the National Socialists. The nationalism appealed to the monarchists, the socialism appealed to the social democrats, and the anti-communism appealed to everybody except the Communists.

Hitler's big mistake was not learning from Bismark, who understood that pigs get fed...hogs get slaughtered.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2015 8:39 AM  

CLEARLY that is just the meander. Nothing to see here.

Blogger Phillip George September 21, 2015 8:39 AM  

The fate history future prosperity and defence of Nations, Kingdoms, Principalities is laid out in black and white in Psalm 2.
Kiss the only begotten Son of God.
or be histories chaff to the wind.

Extrapolate from one single home to the nation. You don't invite people in who will shit in your bed. To run a house you might want to start with a law, which, for example says, "don't shit in my bed".
If you write 'don't shit in my bed' into the constitution you have a point of reference most neo nationalists, libertarians, churchians and even some masochists can tacitly agree on.
It's about Jesus, you need Him at base level in the Constitution.
IMHO. It's only logical.

Blogger Phillip George September 21, 2015 8:39 AM  

History's

Blogger Cail Corishev September 21, 2015 8:44 AM  

I'm still very much a clueless newbie with regards to history, so I'm wondering: Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume? Is that a real pattern? Or is it a belief that comes from growing up in the shadow of WWII?

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 21, 2015 8:45 AM  

The latter, Cail.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 8:47 AM  

Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume? Is that a real pattern? Or is it a belief that comes from growing up in the shadow of WWII?

By uglier do you mean domestic policy or foreign policy?

Blogger Salt September 21, 2015 8:55 AM  

We are living where nationalism is a dirty word because of the work of nationalists of a previous era.

I don't see that in the Europeans. It's interesting that the Europeans have Ultra parties gaining prominence. The US is having similar problems yet there is no Ultra on the horizon.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2015 8:58 AM  

It is absolutely and utterly ridiculous to call True Finns (now "Finns Party") an Ultra party though. Almost all nationalists despise them. They see them as completely lukewarm, and only useful as a springboard to true nationalism.

Yet, abroad they are reported as an Ultra party. So, knowing the hilarious difference between the reality and the narrative, it makes me wonder about Sweden Democrats, and other supposedly ultra parties out there.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 21, 2015 8:59 AM  

Donald Trump is not an "ultra", but he is the manifestation of how Americans will begin to deal with the problem.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 9:00 AM  

Donald Trump is not an "ultra", but he is the manifestation of how Americans will begin to deal with the problem.

Urbandale, Iowa (CNN)Donald Trump on Saturday responded to a question from CNN about whether Muslims pose a danger to the country, saying: "I love the Muslims. I think they're great people."

Blogger Phillip George September 21, 2015 9:05 AM  

Put this another way. I can not force anyone to believe that Jesus is who He said He is. I can put up a sign which says 'don't shit in my bed', even if it is only at the gate of my house.
It's really very very easy. Just allow a new mosque in your country for every new Christian Cathedral built in Mecca or Medina or Afghanistan for example.. Problem solved. Relativism has done your head in.

OpenID karsten0 September 21, 2015 9:06 AM  

"We are living where nationalism is a dirty word because of the work of nationalists of a previous era."

More textbook Cuckservatism. That's not the case "because of the work of nationalists of a previous era." Their work was yeoman's work.

That's the case because of Leftist propaganda. Aim at the real foes.

Denouncing ultra-nationalism because the Left led a brainwashing campaign against it would be like GamerGaters denouncing Vox because anti-GGs attack Vox as "racist, sexist, homophobic."

OpenID karsten0 September 21, 2015 9:07 AM  

"Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume?"

Who is this "everyone"?

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 9:12 AM  

I suspect you are only complaining about food not being freely given away to natives too.

Only? To whom should food be given first? That's the whole point. They're nationalists, not abstract libertarian romantics.

Or is it a belief that comes from growing up in the shadow of WWII?

It is a belief that comes from that and from the mistaken belief of influential Jewish groups that denigrating nationalism would provide greater safety and security for Jews in the West.

Blogger JartStar September 21, 2015 9:13 AM  

Until the EU can figure out the difference between a humanitarian crisis (and there is a legitimate one going on) and the migrant crisis things will only continue to get worse.

As for the US the non-interventionists should rejoice because Obama has made the long term strategic decision to reduce our presence in the Middle East in both supporting dictators and our traditional allies. The EU is paying for this policy and with Russia possibly as the savior. Interesting times...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 21, 2015 9:14 AM  

I don't think the Cucks' "Magic Borders Theory" is a big seller going forward.

Blogger Phillip George September 21, 2015 9:16 AM  

Lively debate.....
or put this in another perspective......

Nationalism has arrived already,,,,,, it's called Islam, Nation of Islam, etc etc etc.

Blogger Alexander September 21, 2015 9:18 AM  

Only? To whom should food be given first? That's the whole point. They're nationalists, not abstract libertarian romantics.

So many people who wring their hands and refuse to understand this.

We are no longer playing by rules that allow for live-and-let-live. Or allow for uptopic thinking.

The game is very simple: There will be boots, and there will be faces. Which one will you and yours be? Complaining that it's not a game you want to play is as futile as a gladiator in Ancient Rome being offered the choice of sword or spear and declaring he'll take neither because its a violation of his human rights to force him to battle.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 September 21, 2015 9:22 AM  

Open borders are the wages of pussifism

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2015 9:23 AM  

What happens to feminism when all hell breaks loose? For some reason, the Bible seems to have the answer. Isaiah 3-4.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2015 9:36 AM  

Harem-a-rama. Concubine bonanza.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 21, 2015 9:42 AM  

What do you mean by "in any meaningful sense?"

Uh oh, I think Josh senses a dog-whistle!

I'd agree with him, if "Christians in any meaningful sense" means in the sense that they would act significantly different in office than a non-Christian. After all, we've had it drilled into us that Obama is a Christian, and definitely not, I repeat, not a Muslim, not even a little bit. Now, pick your favorite atheist liberal. How has Obama's administration been any different than that person's would have been? Or take Bush, another self-declared Christian. Pick your favorite non-Christian neo-con: how was Bush's administration any different than his would have been?

Except for Santorum, and maybe Huckabee, I don't see any of these people acting any differently than a non-Christian with the same political platform would act. I think Santorum would genuinely try harder on abortion, and Huckabee would probably do more public praying. Other than that, no. So while they may be Christian in a "meaningful sense" when they're sure no one's watching, they aren't as public figures.

Who is this "everyone"?

I'm not sure why we're being carefully pedantic about this, but okay. "Everyone" obviously doesn't mean "everyone," since it was clear from the question that it didn't include me. It means the general bulk of society, the rabble who are talking about it.

Obviously the Left preaches nationalism == Nazis. But even on the right I see a fairly common attitude that nationalism is dangerous because, while it may have some good points, it's inevitably followed by jackboots. You can see it right here in this thread: maybe it'll be an improvement, but how will we stop it from continuing down the inevitable slide to facism/bad-ism? I see very little, "Yay, nationalism!" and a lot of, "Oh boy, here we go, I think this is for the best, but I hope we don't regret it."

I didn't make a distinction between domestic and foreign policies because they're intertwined in this viewpoint: freedoms will be curtailed domestically as society becomes more militaristic, while foreign policy will be where that militarism will find its outlet.

My question wasn't rhetorical (ok, not entirely). I really do wonder if there have been other, non-Nazi nationalist movements and governments in history, and whether they show a pattern of evolving into a particular next stage.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 9:47 AM  

I didn't make a distinction between domestic and foreign policies because they're intertwined in this viewpoint: freedoms will be curtailed domestically as society becomes more militaristic, while foreign policy will be where that militarism will find its outlet.

Got it.

An example of what you're referring to could be USA after 9/11. Curtailing of freedom at home, militarism abroad.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2015 9:51 AM  

"Except for Santorum, and maybe Huckabee, I don't see any of these people acting any differently than a non-Christian with the same political platform would act. "

Cruz is another potential... but as always... cruz has the wierd creep factor... like an eddy haskell thing.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 9:55 AM  

Cruz is another potential... but as always... cruz has the wierd creep factor... like an eddy haskell thing.

He also has gay clown face.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 9:56 AM  

Except for Santorum, and maybe Huckabee, I don't see any of these people acting any differently than a non-Christian with the same political platform would act. I think Santorum would genuinely try harder on abortion, and Huckabee would probably do more public praying. Other than that, no. So while they may be Christian in a "meaningful sense" when they're sure no one's watching, they aren't as public figures.

This is actually a big part of Carson's appeal to evangelicals.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 21, 2015 10:00 AM  

@45, Josh: Donald Trump is not an "ultra", but he is the manifestation of how Americans will begin to deal with the problem.

Urbandale, Iowa (CNN)Donald Trump on Saturday responded to a question from CNN about whether Muslims pose a danger to the country, saying: "I love the Muslims. I think they're great people."


You'll notice he didn't answer the question, Josh. Unintentional? I think not.

Blogger Dennis Freeman September 21, 2015 10:07 AM  

@42 if only Socialist became such a dirty word, it has killed more than Nationalists ever have.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 September 21, 2015 10:08 AM  

Cruz is a Christian. Doesn't make him right about policy, but I don't doubt his sincerity as a Christian. Ditto for Carson with an extra helping of wrong policy and a sprinkle of not ready to fight on top.

Rand Paul, otoh, is just another nappy-headed ho at this point.

As for nationalism, that's just another way of saying "patriotism" although the usual suspects will say or do most anything to hide that fact.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 10:17 AM  

You'll notice he didn't answer the question, Josh. Unintentional? I think not.

More from that piece:

One student told Trump that she considered Muslim-Americans to be an important segment of the country. They asked whether the billionaire businessman would consider putting a Muslim in his Cabinet or on his ticket.

"Oh, absolutely," Trump responded. "No problem with that."

Blogger Stilicho #0066 September 21, 2015 10:20 AM  

Vox, two election cycles in Europe, how many presidential election cycles in U.S.?

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2015 10:25 AM  

@56: As @26 put it, Women are usually cunning enough to see to their own needs. In the absence of an ersatz daddy/husband figure in the government that can provide what an actual daddy/husband figure can provide, they won't be interested in pursuing the ideology anymore.

Blogger Alexander September 21, 2015 10:34 AM  

We can go round circles forever. "Trump would absolutely consider putting a Muslim in his cabinet" can mean the Trump has no problem with Islam at all; It can mean that Trump has seen many bullshit concepts pass his test and "oh yes, he has no problem looking at each and every one (knowing full well they're heading straight for the bin)".

But I'm still betting that Trump is deliberately refusing to answer the question because he's not going to jump through hoops for little shitlibs all aquiver at the idea of getting the headline TRUMP WON'T SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE. On the other hand, he's not going to make a statement that he explicitly will, because he won't.

If it all comes back to bite us in the ass, I'll be happy to make a public statement that we were forewarned. But Trump's statements so far + Trump's wife's homeland + the absolute circus of Muslim immigrants we are going to be treated to in Europe for the next year leading up to the election... I'm not worried about Trump putting a Muslim in the cabinet or on the ticket.

OpenID eidolon1109 September 21, 2015 10:40 AM  

Women are usually cunning enough to see to their own needs. In the absence of an ersatz daddy/husband figure in the government that can provide what an actual daddy/husband figure can provide, they won't be interested in pursuing the ideology anymore.

One of the many ways the TV version of The Walking Dead was inferior to the original version was that in the comic version, the female characters have a conversation about feminism and leadership while they wash everyone's clothes in the river. One of them tries to toe the feminist line, but the rest say "forget it, we want the men to fight for us and protect us, and we're also not capable of doing it for ourselves, so doing woman stuff is an excellent trade if we get that in return," and the other woman backs down and agrees. They also discuss whether the women should have a role in the decision-making and they turn it down, saying that they really don't want to be part of it. They just want to be led and protected. Basically feminism was over after a few weeks of genuine danger.

When things get dangerous feminism will be the first thing to go. If being feminist means she doesn't eat, a woman will stop being a feminist pretty quick. I bet a lot of the women in the cities that got sacked were strongly opposed to the ideology of the conquerors too, until the walls came down.

Blogger Ratatǫskr September 21, 2015 10:49 AM  

Google Translate this, Vox.
http://www.friatider.se/svenskt-gang-hogg-ihjal-invandrare

A group of ethnic Swedish youth stabbed an immigrant to death. Reportedly there was a bunch of young immigrants who somehow bothered the group. Among other things, the immigrants allegedly groped a Swedish girl, which made the quarrel escalate.

Blogger Anthony September 21, 2015 10:55 AM  

Call, Steve Sailer has pointed out that nationalism and ethnic homogenization worked pretty well in post-war Europe. The borders were moved, and then the people were. France for the French, Germany for the Germans, Poland for the Poles.

Blogger Alexander September 21, 2015 10:58 AM  

@69

I tried to watch the tv show Revolutions a few years ago and there take on things made the show completely uninteresting - it was like watching human robots. A world where technology has suddenly and violently returned to the 18th century... and the feisty little she-protaganist has no qualms telling the former Marine what to do, who takes it because he's 'done some bad stuff' and isn't fit to lead. Feminism, Multiculturalism, et.al. were very much alive and well.

This is an element that the SJWs fail so hard at. Surely a sane person would argue, they can't be offended by racial violence and oppression and sexism and the destruction of feminism in a world that is designed to look like an absolute shithole.

Nope. Portraying the future as a patriarchal dystopia is still bad because it denies that the feminist ideal is universal and that progress is inevitable. That future women are either incapable of fending off the oppressor or - worse - would recognize and accept a division of labor.

But aside from being ridiculous, it makes for really bad tv.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 21, 2015 11:02 AM  

@46 Phillip George
Relativism has done your head in.
---

You've pinpointed a huge problem. The relativism philosophy is behind a lot of the evils plaguing us these days.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 21, 2015 11:16 AM  

@70 Ratatǫskr
Google Translate this, Vox.
http://www.friatider.se/svenskt-gang-hogg-ihjal-invandrare

A group of ethnic Swedish youth stabbed an immigrant to death. Reportedly there was a bunch of young immigrants who somehow bothered the group. Among other things, the immigrants allegedly groped a Swedish girl, which made the quarrel escalate.
---

Why do the good guys always go to jail?

Blogger automatthew September 21, 2015 11:18 AM  

Josh, if you think Trump is lying in his clear and definite statements, why wouldn't you allow for subterfuge in his evasions?

Blogger automatthew September 21, 2015 11:19 AM  

Carly Fiorina is a beautiful woman with a beautiful face.

OpenID eidolon1109 September 21, 2015 11:19 AM  

@72

Agreed. What's funny is the original TWD even had a tough female character -- that made sense! One of the women turns out to be an excellent shot, which proves critical in many situations as she serves as a sniper. As I understand it this is actually a real thing, women actually can be really good shots in some cases, as good or even a little better than men. So they actually managed to do it while not having it be idiotic.

It's sad that they refused to use the scene by the river, even though it was already written for them and was tremendously more interesting than anything they were doing, because they couldn't stand for anything to happen that didn't conform to their worldview 100%. A lot of times they won't even let the villains disagree with them!

But don't worry, the highly-paid writers managed to improve on the original by adding racist rednecks that weren't originally there. You know, because it was set in Georgia.

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2015 11:23 AM  

@72 One of the reasons I liked the Cadfael series from the BBC was because it was set in the dystopian past ("The Anarchy" in England during the 12th century) and therefore had to be relatively true to the times. Not a lot of feminism evident.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 11:25 AM  

Josh, if you think Trump is lying in his clear and definite statements, why wouldn't you allow for subterfuge in his evasions?

He could be lying. Who knows?

At this point I'm not sure there's anything trump could say that would cause his hardcore supporters to abandon him.

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2015 11:38 AM  

@77 Lyudmila Pavlichenko for one.

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2015 11:41 AM  

@77 Annie Oakley for another.

Blogger haus frau September 21, 2015 11:48 AM  

@69 They also discuss whether the women should have a role in the decision-making and they turn it down, saying that they really don't want to be part of it. They just want to be led and protected.

Which makes sense entirely. If your life is on the line and you know you're incapable of fighting why would you want to make decisions on something you have no ability or experience in? It doesn't serve self-interest one bit to deny the limits of their capabilities. The only reason feminists get away with doing that now is because social engineering with the military and police is like their version of Fantasy Football. No consequences to the decision makers whatsoever. And so far no consequences to the narrative as it hasn't suffered enough Jessica Lynch type tragic defeats to break through the propaganda spin.

Blogger MycroftJones September 21, 2015 11:57 AM  

Vox, did I miss something? Was one of W.Lindsey.Wheeler's posts deleted? His article about the Tower of Babel was spot on. Been meaning to write something along those lines myself. I'll finish it when I get home from work, but at first skim it looks correct; has the right flow and outline. Finally, another person who read the Bible and made a good analysis. Didn't see how that was an attack on anyone.

Blogger MycroftJones September 21, 2015 11:59 AM  

Over on Alpha Game Plan, Artisanal Toad posted a solid analysis on polygamy, and was attacked by Jack Amok and Delta Man. What is going on?

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 12:07 PM  

Don't cross post

Blogger Patrick Kelly September 21, 2015 12:10 PM  

@77 " One of the women turns out to be an excellent shot, which proves critical in many situations as she serves as a sniper. As I understand it this is actually a real thing, women actually can be really good shots in some cases, as good or even a little better than men"

Yes and no.

I have watched veteran female competitive shooters perform amazingly on the line, and young teen-age girls take to such shooting as naturally as a fish takes to water.

However, under very stressful situations, like actual combat or training for it, not so much.

OpenID Jack Amok September 21, 2015 12:32 PM  

Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume?

I think in 1776 it led to something not so very ugly. In England and France and some other parts of Europe it did as well. The Kaiser's Germany took fifty years to go to war against the rest of civilization, and the rest of civilization wasn't entirely innocent then. Nationalism in Europe replaced the feudal system that had an international nobility lording it over the serfs. And in all honesty, the "ugliness" of the Nazis is only extreme in comparison to what had become the norm in "Nationalist" Western Civilization.

Nationalism displaced feudalism. The neo-feudalists hate it because they want to take us back to a state of feudalism, with them as the nobility and us as the serfs. Nationalism gets in their way.

Blogger VD September 21, 2015 12:33 PM  

Was one of W.Lindsey.Wheeler's posts deleted?

Yes. Because I have repeatedly warned Wheeler that he is neither a teacher nor an instructor and he is not welcome to offer detailed critiques or corrections of other commenters.

Been meaning to write something along those lines myself. I'll finish it when I get home from work, but at first skim it looks correct; has the right flow and outline.

Don't post it here.

Over on Alpha Game Plan, Artisanal Toad posted a solid analysis on polygamy, and was attacked by Jack Amok and Delta Man. What is going on?

An active refusal to permit readers with agendas to hijack the blogs.

Blogger bob k. mando September 21, 2015 12:33 PM  

9. Sherwood family September 21, 2015 6:55 AM
It was that anti-nationalist/global liberal order that was ushered in as a backlash against the nationalist movements of the Nazis, the Fascists, and the Showa period of Japanese nationalism



absolute, a-historical bullshit.

the militant internationalists date from the mid-1800s and Marx.

HG Wells was a Fabian Socialist advocating for the abolition of nations BEFORE 1900.

the union / socialist / communist movements ( outgrowths of Marxism ) were huge throughout the West BEFORE the world wars.

Fascism / National Socialism IS THE "THIRD WAY" between pure Marxist internationalism and the nation state.

the ONLY reason that the internationalist / global liberal order has been ushered in is because we have allowed them control of higher education, through which they have gained control of lower education and the instruments of media.

as a first example, explain this:
IF
the current internationalist, race neutral, anti-Christian ideology is due to the 'past sins' of Christian nationalists
THEN
why is motherfucking SWEDEN the Euro nation taking the most immigrants?

what Negroes / other racial "minorities" did Sweden oppress? what muslims did Sweden oppress?

and yet they scourge themselves for the 'sins' of others? this makes NO RATIONAL SENSE whatsoever.

otoh, if Swedes have been raised since kindergarten to believe that the 'white man' has oppressed all the rest of the planet ...



9. Sherwood family September 21, 2015 6:55 AM
My fear is that the Golden Dawns, Le Front Nationals, and the other nationalist parties will succeed in driving out foreign elements but succeed in a way that brands love of country and nationalism as anathema for another 70 years or so.



your concern should much rather be that all of the professoriat that taught Phil Sandifer that the 60,000 dead of Operation Condor is WORSE than the 60,000,000 dead of Mao be decertified and prohibited from teaching anyone ever again.



39. Cail Corishev September 21, 2015 8:44 AM
Or is it a belief that comes from growing up in the shadow of WWII?


so ... the US was anti-nationalist in 1942-45?

that's ... a very interesting hypothesis.



60. Josh September 21, 2015 9:55 AM
He also has gay clown face.



also, Spock ear.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 12:43 PM  

In England and France and some other parts of Europe it did as well. The Kaiser's Germany took fifty years to go to war against the rest of civilization, and the rest of civilization wasn't entirely innocent then.

To paraphrase Jonah Goldberg in liberal fascism, the likelihood of nationalism leading to ugliness depends on the nature of the nationality. German nationalism is probably more likely to lead to wars of aggression and conquest than Portuguese or Spanish nationalism.

Blogger Forrest Bishop September 21, 2015 12:47 PM  

@89. bob k. mando September 21, 2015 12:33 PM

the militant internationalists date from the mid-1800s and Marx.

Right, 1848 and even earlier. Some background- http://mileswmathis.com/papa.pdf
Marx was a paid agent. Cultural Marxism could just as well be called Cultural Fascism or Cultural Corporatism, for the same reasons that Soviet Socialism could just as well be called State Capitalism.

Golden Dawn-

"...More likely is that Pound's people knew Yeats' people through the Golden
Dawn, an offshoot of Theosophy. Although he arrived in August, by October he was lecturing at the
Polytechnic and by January he was attending the literary salons of Olivia Shakespear. Not a bad four
months for a 22-year-old popping into London on a lark. That simply doesn't happen without major
strings being pulled, and we may assume that Pound's grandfather had links to military intelligence.
Thaddeus Pound had been Lieutenant Governor of Wisconsin and a member of US Congress..."

OpenID Jack Amok September 21, 2015 12:48 PM  

MycroftJones, yes don't cross post, but I did just respond to you at AG.

But to your larger theme of why the short leash, there are things in common with the arguments that get it.

OpenID Jack Amok September 21, 2015 12:51 PM  

German nationalism is probably more likely to lead to wars of aggression and conquest than Portuguese or Spanish nationalism

The Aztecs disagree. For that matter, the Dutch might disagree too.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 12:53 PM  

The Aztecs disagree. For that matter, the Dutch might disagree too.

Those were mostly feudal, not nationalist, conflicts.

Blogger CM September 21, 2015 1:03 PM  

"Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume?"

It's like its projection, since they (far/vocal left) are in favor of killing off their ideological opponents.

I haven't heard the speaking nationalists advocating killing off other-citizens (black, asian, indian).

And even VD has said he's ok with immigration... with the caveat your country isn't devolving into a third world country because of it.

While the same could be said of Hitler in 1929 or whenever he was elected, we aren't advocating imprisoning and gassing our minorities.

Given our democratic-republic government is a dysfunctional shambles that needs complete rebuilding and is very vulnerable to a usurping by a dictator, I can't imagine "Americans letting [Germany] happen here."*

*In quotes for the mockery of what "americans" HAVE let happen...

Blogger SciVo September 21, 2015 1:05 PM  

CM @23: How is it that what is intuitive to the readers here is so violently rejected by so many?

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

Blogger CM September 21, 2015 1:13 PM  

All this talk about German Nationalism, what about Japanese Nationalism prior to the West's arrival?

For that matter, National Socialism vs Imperial Nationalism vs Libertarian Nationalism? I don't think Libertarian has been well represented in World History, but Australia seems to have been close until recently.

Why is German Nationalism the only one up for discussion?

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 1:18 PM  

All this talk about German Nationalism, what about Japanese Nationalism prior to the West's arrival?

Probably not the best example, given their repeated invasions of Korea and ethnic cleansing of the ainu or whatever they're called.

Blogger Tom K. September 21, 2015 1:35 PM  

Yaaaaayyyaàa! And can I get a witness for the Loooorrrddd tonight!!

Blogger Nate September 21, 2015 1:44 PM  

"Carly Fiorina is a beautiful woman with a beautiful face."

***blink blink***

what?

Blogger bob k. mando September 21, 2015 1:45 PM  

97. CM September 21, 2015 1:13 PM
Why is German Nationalism the only one up for discussion?



because preaching about the evils of German Nationalism ( while ignoring the crimes of socialism and communism ) allows them to push their chosen narrative.

Blogger bob k. mando September 21, 2015 1:46 PM  

100. Nate September 21, 2015 1:44 PM
what?



Riker was offered command of his own starship.

yes, i watch Jeopardy. what of it?

Blogger Tom K. September 21, 2015 1:47 PM  

"It's not a given that they will. It totally depends upon whether one gets a Hitler. . ."

Has the new Nationalist leader written a book? A "Main Kampf"? Hitlers plans were only a surprise to those who didn't read. Or didn't believe he was serious.

OpenID Steve September 21, 2015 1:47 PM  

"My fear is that the Golden Dawns, Le Front Nationals, and the other nationalist parties will succeed in driving out foreign elements but succeed in a way that brands love of country and nationalism as anathema for another 70 years or so."

You sound like the reporter that said the worse thing about the Rotherham UK gang rapes of 1,400 little white girls by moslems is that it proves the right party right.

Blogger CM September 21, 2015 2:11 PM  

Probably not the best example, given their repeated invasions of Korea and ethnic cleansing of the ainu or whatever they're called.

Ha. I mostly brought them up because lefty hipsters are generally in love with Japanese culture.

Blogger Eraser September 21, 2015 2:13 PM  

Two election cycles. I like that VD is willing to make very specific predictions. I think this one depends on something else.

Remember the saying: "It's the economy, stupid"; governments are able to get away with a lot and keep their popularity at reasonable levels, as long as the people don't feel it in their wallets. There has been a crisis at the edges of the EU, Spain, Italy and Greece, for some time now. If the Euro crashes, or the same kind of crisis hits the core countries (France, UK and Germany) then we'll probably see ultras in power. On the other hand if the economy doesn't crash, I think the current situation will just drag on.

OpenID Steve September 21, 2015 2:25 PM  

@77 " One of the women turns out to be an excellent shot, which proves critical in many situations as she serves as a sniper. As I understand it this is actually a real thing, women actually can be really good shots in some cases, as good or even a little better than men"

They have the patience to conserve ammo and wait for the perfect shot. That is best done from a "safe space", its the difference between a street fight and sparring at a Dojo where no one actually wants to hurt you, so they pull their punches. In sales this leads them to waste time trying to convert maybe/no into yes instead of looking for more yes.

"Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume?"

It will be uglier because the elite looters will not take their boot off peoples face, to run away. If the only way to get the boot off your peoples face is to kill the looter, its the only option available. Do you think the Weimar jews even considered selling a "Fair Share" of the media monopoly to ethnic Germans?

Blogger Tom K. September 21, 2015 2:28 PM  

He says that about everyone the media tries to play "gotcha". Besides, how do you make a truthful statement about ANY large group of people that can't be used against you in some way.

I watched a video yesterday of a law school lecture wherein the lawyer was teaching the class: NEVER, EVER, EVER , EVER talk to the police! EVERYTHING you say WILL be used against you.

But guess what? NOTHING you say can be used TO DEFEND YOU! It will be called HERESAY and is INADMISIBLE.

The Donald is BRILLIANT!

Blogger Gaiseric ! September 21, 2015 2:39 PM  

Do we have evidence that "nationalism" naturally leads to something uglier, as everyone seems to assume?

No. All of the evidence points to the socialism in the National Socialists being their big problem, not the nationalism. It wasn't the nationalist Chinese that killed 60 million Han. It wasn't the White Russians who caused the Holodomor. And it wasn't the Kaiser's nationalist government that caused the Holocaust.

Blogger Tom K. September 21, 2015 2:40 PM  

Even Spock eventually learned to lie to those who would use his integrity against him.

Blogger Tom K. September 21, 2015 2:45 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger vashine September 21, 2015 3:43 PM  

Focus on today. Don't spend so much time online preaching to the crowd. Think of simple ways to get the basic information out there about Islam to a desperately thirsty populace. Most people, especially men, KNOW that Muslims and Islam are the scourge of the earth, the big problem we ALL share, be we Hindus, Christians, Latinos, gringos, Asians, Indians, Africans, Europeans, whatever. We all KNOW. But many don't know that their instincts are fully and completely justified, moral, and Righteous.

Low-tech, spread the information everywhere you walk, and you'll not only save a few lives, but you'll activate and inspired a great many to feel utterly justified in their instincts, to then search out more information on websites like this one, Jihadwatch, etc.

To those who have been given much, much is expected. Minimize preaching to the choir. There are kids, teenagers, the apathetic and confused middle-aged, who sense that a lot is wrong, one little flyer, something, anything, could make him and her an ally.

Do those little things, every day, and the tipping point will be reached sooner. Which will be better for everyone, and save quite a few lives and souls to boot.

And it's now or never. Restaurants, bars, buses, anywhere. The Apostles? They preached anywhere and everywhere and didn't give a damn about the laws. If you Love enough, you shouldn't give a damn about the laws or liberalism-enforced rules of decorum or etiquette either. People are in need of some truth, shove it in their face, even if they squirm. They may even hate you for it in the moment, but you plant a seed in their head and heart, and later they are on our side.

Tipping point. Help push a little more. They can't stop the information from getting out there. Go out into your towns and cities, and get. it. out. there. It's so simple. And is vital to speeding up the awakening.

Blogger vashine September 21, 2015 3:45 PM  

I think small flyers, with very little info, a Koran quote that justifies rape of infidel women (for example), some rape stats from Norway, Sweden, the UK, and some quite unsavory pictures of white girl rape and Jihad victims, with a few links to learn more, a plea to copy and share with any and all they know. It will help, without a doubt. And the powers that be cannot stop it.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 21, 2015 4:07 PM  

@76 automatthew
Carly Fiorina is a beautiful woman with a beautiful face.
---

That's a powerful set of beer goggles you've got on.

Blogger automatthew September 21, 2015 4:13 PM  

Carly Fiorina is a beautiful woman with a beautiful face.

That was an example of the kind of thing Trump says that nobody actually believes. Analogous to the statement that he'd consider a Muslim for cabinet.

Blogger vashine September 21, 2015 4:29 PM  

"That was an example of the kind of thing Trump says that nobody actually believes. Analogous to the statement that he'd consider a Muslim for cabinet."

Exactly. Trump is far more 'nuanced' and with a far richer personality and character than his haters can even imagine. Yes, objectively he know Fiorina is nothing to look at, but he's willing to admit that she has moments of dignity and beauty, and he's not afriad to say either depending on his mood, or if he's tossing her a bone. We all know he'd never give her the time of day. He comes off as Alpha and with class, while still smirking.

Same with 'considering a Muslim for cabinet'. Trump knows he's dealing with abject losers in the media, people so socially awkward and annoying the moment others don't play by their script, so he panders to them often. Again, he does it because their relentless hyterics are just plain annoying, and he is essentially just brushing them aside. And he may even be technically telling the truth and retaining his honor. He WOULD consider a Muslim for cabinet. For about 1.5 seconds. So there liberals, stuff it.

Blogger Dewave September 21, 2015 4:52 PM  

"As I understand it this is actually a real thing, women actually can be really good shots in some cases, as good or even a little better than men."

This is not a real thing. See the emprical data gathered from the marines experiment in mixed gender units. Short version: best few percent of women worse than worst few percent of men, across almost all weapons.
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/280017557/Marine-Corps-gender-integration-research-executive-summary

Blogger luagha September 21, 2015 5:53 PM  

Women have a lower center of gravity than men, making for a more stable platform. That's why when you teach a woman target shooting, they seem to have 'beginner's luck' and are surprisingly skilled for someone on their first day if they have the desire to listen, handle the noise, and combat recoil.

Their natural disadvantage in upper body strength and inability to handle 'burst' energy limits them with some weapons. I've noticed that the slower 'push' of a .45 ACP recoil affects them less than the 'crack' of say, a .38 Special.

At the highest levels that few women ever reach, on average a woman's heartbeat follows a different angle in the body. When a woman reaches the level that controlling for heartbeat becomes an issue (like Annie Oakley, or the American Olympic Gold medalist Kim Rhode ) she has an advantage over men.

The female Marine leader who was bounced due to her trying to impose quality on her female marines specifically in shooting was going on this. Her opinion was that the women under her command were capable of more, but they would rather be lazy than pressed.

The Top Shot competition had two good women's competitors - one middle of the road who left to take care of her father dying of cancer, and one Olympic Gold pistol shooter who outshot many men and did well on rifle but still got edged out there. There were several other women competitors who got quickly crushed, fairly or unfairly - one, an expert police officer, went to a challenge that actually used her duty weapon and got blown out of the water first week though she had every advantage. It turned out that the guy who blew her out of the water eventually won the tournament and was acclaimed to be as much of a 'natural' as can be imagined.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 21, 2015 7:37 PM  

At this point I'm not sure there's anything trump could say that would cause his hardcore supporters to abandon him.

Correct Josh. We're supporting Trump because he's threatening America's political parasite class. He is an extreme threat to their lucrative control of government power, and they know it.

Burn. It. Down.

Blogger James Dixon September 21, 2015 7:47 PM  

> Worry about today's problem's today.

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

> We are living where nationalism is a dirty word because of the work of nationalists of a previous era.

Who were stopped by US, British, and Russian ... nationalists.

> If you truly want to help these invaders, then do something about the United States funding terrorism in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Macedonia, Serbia, Russia, Ukraine, and Armenia.

What do you think we've been trying to do?

> Carly Fiorina is a beautiful woman with a beautiful face.

Neigh. :)

Blogger David-093 September 21, 2015 8:46 PM  

I'm thinking Trump simply didn't want to get bogged down with yet another unimportant non scandal that the media is trying to gin up. Nobody believes he'd put a Muslim in office anyway.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 21, 2015 9:07 PM  

Vashine, well said. That's why it's so easy to find quotes from Trump that contradict each other, but it's also why such quotes won't hurt him. If he doesn't respect the person asking a question or see a reason to take the question seriously yet, he may just say shit, and he doesn't see anything wrong with that. When someone asks a question that's obviously a trap or a "My question is you suck" speech -- which means 99% of media questions if you're not the chosen liberal -- he feels no obligation to take it seriously, and may decide just to wind them up with some BS. It's the way he's always been, and he's too old to change now.

I think non-aspies can recognize that, so "gotcha" quotes won't work against him the way they work against ordinary politicians who lie with great care but would never do so flippantly. If that's unfair, tough: that's what they get for being such lying, parsing bitches for so long.

Blogger Josh September 21, 2015 9:51 PM  

Correct Josh. We're supporting Trump because he's threatening America's political parasite class. He is an extreme threat to their lucrative control of government power, and they know it.

/facepalm

Blogger automatthew September 21, 2015 10:04 PM  

I would support Trump for king, but not for president.

OpenID Jack Amok September 21, 2015 10:35 PM  

Those were mostly feudal, not nationalist, conflicts.

Certainly not, otherwise the Spaniards wouldn't have been quite so touchy about Englishmen sailing around the Caribbean. The Spanish-Aztec conflict may not have been seen by anyone in Europe as a conflict of nations, but the Hidalgos were in the New World because the Spanish Nationalism forged by the Reconquista gave them a powerful lot of momentum and an appetite for expansion.

Note that I am not saying the Spanish were wrong to do this. Fewer cultures who engage in ritual sacrifices is generally a good thing.

Blogger bob k. mando September 21, 2015 11:27 PM  

124. automatthew September 21, 2015 10:04 PM
I would support Trump for king, but not for president.



depending on how far into ochlocracy you think we've fallen, Trump may be your man.

Blogger David-093 September 21, 2015 11:50 PM  

"/facepalm"

You mean they secretly like him and the virulent hatred is just for show?

Blogger automatthew September 22, 2015 12:18 AM  

Owners take better care than renters.

Blogger automatthew September 22, 2015 12:20 AM  

And our current political system is pederastocracy.

OpenID Jack Amok September 22, 2015 12:31 AM  

Owners take better care than renters.

And renters are better than squatters.

OpenID eidolon1109 September 22, 2015 1:08 AM  

See the emprical data gathered from the marines experiment in mixed gender units. Short version: best few percent of women worse than worst few percent of men, across almost all weapons.

luagha pretty much identified what I was thinking of. I wouldn't expect women to be anywhere near as good as men at shooting in a typical soldier's environment, at running and gunning, or any of that. The character in TWD is a good shot compared to various untrained shooters and one cop who has presumably had target practice; she's not the greatest marksman who ever lived.

The group often employs her as a lookout and sniper in high positions using a rifle, which would maximize the advantage a woman would have as per luagha's description. Not sure if Kirkman looked that up or it was a lucky coincidence, but the depiction is reasonably accurate.

Blogger Josh September 22, 2015 1:23 AM  

You mean they secretly like him and the virulent hatred is just for show?

No.

Blogger Shimshon September 22, 2015 1:55 AM  

@116 Vashine,

When I read Trump's response to the question about Muslims in American politics, I thought, that's a fine non-answer answer (and quite the Alpha way to do it). Muslims may be very fine people, but he didn't exactly answer the question, did he? Since he didn't, he might actually consider them unacceptable participants at the level he was asked about. He just couldn't answer a question like that directly.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 22, 2015 7:39 AM  

VFM #188: Correct Josh. We're supporting Trump because he's threatening America's political parasite class. He is an extreme threat to their lucrative control of government power, and they know it.

Josh: /facepalm

David: You mean they secretly like him and the virulent hatred is just for show?

Josh: No.


Well if it's not just snark, then Josh must be indicating he understands the existential threat posed by Trump to the political parasite classes, thus making Trump the only rational choice for anyone opposing the parasites (which in turn exacerbates the virulent hatred)...and that's why Josh is going to vote for Trump!

Thank you, Josh! You da man!

Blogger Mark Citadel September 23, 2015 6:40 AM  

Another great assessment by Vox

Blogger Michael Chiu September 23, 2015 11:33 AM  

@VD Can you post up a reading list of good history books that reflect a lot of the declines that are happening with society / the american empire. Or some good history references in general for us that are not as well acquainted as we should be?

Blogger Laocoon September 28, 2015 2:51 AM  

The only hope for Europe is the rise of nationalist parties (falsely described as "neonazi") and the wake up of patriots in power structures (police departments, military, secret services). Otherwise, the islamization of Europe would be unstoppable. :( Fuck EU!

OpenID ymarsakar October 01, 2015 8:46 AM  

Golden Dawn is probably the closest to the Nazi images and habits, although that's generally because there hasn't been a leadership change yet as was the case with national front. Old generational habits die hard. But if 90% of their members are "new" and "mainstream" haters of Islam... well, that might change sooner than people realize.

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