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Monday, September 07, 2015

Social justice contradictions

Diversity and Equality are inherently contradictory. The racism of the university diversity champions is just one obvious example.
Her primer on college admissions begins with the basics: application deadlines, the relative virtues of the SAT versus the ACT and how many Advanced Placement tests to take. Then she eases into a potentially incendiary topic — one that many counselors like her have learned they cannot avoid.

“Let's talk about Asians,” she says.

Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.
So blacks are getting a 280-point SAT bonus. Because they're equal to Asians, who obviously are culturally advantaged in white institutions. Although, what exactly is the benefit to whites to have Asians going to their top universities instead of whites?

Maybe the New Americans will be nice and whites will get their own reservations and casinos too. I have no doubt that there were more than a few of my people back in the day saying, "hey, I'm sure we can get along just fine with these paleskins. There is plenty of land for everyone!"

Fortunately, that could never happen because Asians don't outnumber Americans like Europeans outnumbered Native Americans... wait a minute!

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139 Comments:

Blogger El Borak September 07, 2015 12:06 PM  

Obviously, the solution for a mediocre Asian is to identify as black. #Wongskin.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 12:12 PM  

On the sidebar to that article was this one:

Why are women leaving the tech industry in droves

It too, seemed aimed at Asians ...

Of course, it was full of the same old tired old platitudes about losing half of our capable people and needing more people in tech blah blah ...

Maybe someone should point out that they are largely there to pretty the place up and make males work harder.

Blogger Rico Suave September 07, 2015 12:18 PM  

I find it hard to mind Asians because I like their food, their women, and that they are pro civilization. Most importantly I hope they could be allies against the Hispanic hordes.

Anonymous Pax Romana September 07, 2015 12:24 PM  

I notice it didn't include white people on that scale. Do we fall between 0 and -50, or do we have a greater deficit than the Asians?

Anonymous LES September 07, 2015 12:27 PM  

It is ironic. The White Man stole the land from the American Indian and now the Indians are buying it back with the White Mans' money in the casinos.

Blogger El Borak September 07, 2015 12:29 PM  

Do we fall between 0 and -50

0. White people are considered the standard, because equality.

Anonymous Discard September 07, 2015 12:29 PM  

3. Rico Suave: They'll be Whites' allies until they are strong enough to make us their servants. They are pro-Oriental civilization, not pro-civilization. If you like their food and women so much, move there.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 12:32 PM  

I find it hard to mind Asians because I like their food, their women, and that they are pro civilization. Most importantly I hope they could be allies against the Hispanic hordes.

I doubt that Asian men will appreciate you much ...

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 07, 2015 12:34 PM  

3. Rico Suave: "Most importantly I hope they could be allies against the Hispanic hordes."

The way the vote implies that instead they are allies of the Hispanic hordes.

Blogger Shimshon September 07, 2015 12:35 PM  

Vox, your racism is so self-evident that I'm having fainting spells whenever I think about it. I blame you for the sad state of my formerly perfectly-coiffed rainbow-dyed hair.

Anonymous WillBest September 07, 2015 12:37 PM  

@1 didn't Mindy's brother of Mindy Project fame do that?


Asians have an interesting method of invading. 1/3rd of their women marry whites. Its like a reverse Spanish conquest of South America. Then again it seems to fit in with female survival instincts. If you children will be discriminated on a form for being Asian, get them the option of avoiding that discrimination with a white surname.

I might also point out that Asians in the US are hardly united. And many of the South East Asians are pushing to be broken out separately (and unofficially are in many instances) as they are tired of getting penalized for the success of the their NE cousins.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 12:41 PM  

The way the vote implies that instead they are allies of the Hispanic hordes.

You obviously haven't heard of the revolt of the East Asians when certain groups tries to get more Hispanic-directed affirmative action in in the University system in CA.

Anonymous Steve, The Dark Ninja of Mockery September 07, 2015 12:43 PM  

"Obviously, the solution for a mediocre Asian is to identify as black."

Blogger El Borak September 07, 2015 12:44 PM  

WillBest: ...Mindy's brother...

No idea, I don't watch TV.

#WrongSkin is a joke now, but a few decades ago, so was the homosexual simulacrum of marriage as well as "trans" everything. How long until reruns of M*A*S*H are taken off the air because of their transphobia?

The Thermidorian-style reaction to this nonsense all is going to be one for the ages.

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 12:44 PM  

This from "Why are women leaving the tech industry in droves": Until then, women like Redmond and Means will keep leaving. Redmond now runs her own business making educational apps for children, while Means, 36, has moved to Rome to work on a novel and figure out what she'll do next.

Looks to me like they're leaving to do what they really wanted to do all along. This is what happens when you push otherwise intelligent people into doing what they're not suited to do.

Blogger toadbile September 07, 2015 12:50 PM  

White people get no adjustment because they are the baseline, which is to say, "normal." We need to let in some races and limit others so we can have diversity and thus not be accused of racism. If enough people complain, either the black or hispanic bonus will be set to zero and white will get -200, asians -250, and all will be right with the world.
Now let's talk about gays and muzzlums.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 12:50 PM  

Redmond now runs her own business making educational apps for children

which are most likely full of SJW crap ... anyone want to bet on it?

Anonymous WillBest September 07, 2015 12:51 PM  

@14 No I mean her
real life brother

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 12:54 PM  

There is something that that article about Ana Redmond hid. You can verify it by looking her up on LinkedIn.

I wonder why they hid that fact?

Blogger IM2L844 September 07, 2015 12:54 PM  

It's pure dumb luck that white men have ended up with most of the power and most of the stuff. Evolutionary genetics have nothing to do with how cultural environments develop. It's dumb luck turtles all the way down, since the beginning of time. Slot machines in Vegas need to be equipped with race/gender detection and algorithms to balance out white men's dumb luck advantage.

Blogger Salt September 07, 2015 12:56 PM  

Minus fifty. That's what they get for not invading the west coast.

Blogger El Borak September 07, 2015 1:01 PM  

@18 , Ah, my bad. that's funny as hell.

@20 white men's dumb luck advantage White men are pretty stupid for working so hard when they could have just relied on their luck. Same with Asians, only 50 points moreso.

Anonymous Menelaus September 07, 2015 1:01 PM  

Speaking of "Maybe the New Americans will be nice"...this starts slowly but is very powerful - moderates/fence-sitters pay special attention:
Nice...

Blogger VD September 07, 2015 1:02 PM  

I find it hard to mind Asians because I like their food, their women, and that they are pro civilization.

That's stupid. They think you are intrinsically inferior. The average Asian is far more racist than the average KKK Grand Dragon. The great horror of the 21st century isn't going to be what the Europeans do to the Muslim invaders, but what the colonizing Chinese do to Africa.

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 1:02 PM  

@19 Ana = Anupama (links to linkedin)

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 1:07 PM  

The real hidden fact is that Anupama did not leave technology behind at all. In fact, she seems to be thriving in it.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 1:10 PM  

The real hidden fact is that Anupama did not leave technology behind at all. In fact, she seems to be thriving in it.

All together now! SJWs Always Lie!

Blogger Rico Suave September 07, 2015 1:11 PM  

It may be stupid, but I'm okay with it. So long as they aren't causing me problems, or bitching about the things I want to do, I don't really care. Maybe if I had a family I would mind. Until then I'm going to continue enjoying their women.

Blogger Kull September 07, 2015 1:15 PM  

I lived in Japan for many years. On the topic of race they said things that would make my southern slave owning ancestors spit their mint juleps all over the porch. I was told once that the Japanese appreciate whites, particularly me, at that particular time, because of their beauty, the unsaid implication was that we were intellectually inferior. I might have been offended if I hadn't been having such a good time. They stated openly that blacks could be nice but that they weren't technically human, not fully evolved. And they hated the Chinese and Koreans. All petty crime was blamed on Chinese and Koreans. It was a great shock to me later to learn that white people are the only people capable of racism.

Don't even ask what the Japanese thought of Jews.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 1:17 PM  

Don't even ask what the Japanese thought of Jews.

Ahhh, so now we know the origin of US Policy towards Japan in the lead up to WWII.

Blogger Dexter September 07, 2015 1:17 PM  

The great horror of the 21st century isn't going to be what the Europeans do to the Muslim invaders, but what the colonizing Chinese do to Africa.

Surpassing even the great horror of what the Africans themselves did to Africa from 1950 to the present? Hard to credit.

I can't decide whether my reaction to Chinese colonization of Africa is,

"I don't care"

or

"Faster, please"

Anonymous Donn #0114 September 07, 2015 1:18 PM  

Les 'They're buying their land back?' That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Have you lived on a rez when 'per capita' checks come in or as it is know on the rez 'Indian money'? None of it goes towards land or anything like that. They get houses free from HUD. They don't buy land. They buy new cars, flat screen tvs, toys, clothes (sometimes even for their kids), jewelry, more toys, drugs, pets, fish tanks and bird cages, booze, new furniture to trash, game consoles or computers, electronics of all kinds etc.

But land? The tribe might buy some business parks and such so there's more for department heads and council members to skim off of but 'land' as in land to continue their traditional way of life? No not so much.

OpenID corvinus333 September 07, 2015 1:19 PM  

I find it hard to mind Asians because I like their food, their women, and that they are pro civilization.

Assuming you're white-European: East Asian women are overrated, and if you procreated with them, your sons would be unattractive (think of Elliot Rodger).

Anonymous Pax Romana September 07, 2015 1:19 PM  

@24
Speaking to Asians being more racist, I get called "Gwai-lo" a lot. Is it standard practice for Chinese people to call Americans "Ghosts?"

Anonymous Donn #0114 September 07, 2015 1:22 PM  

Dexter what chaps the African's hide to this day (and their SJW allies) is that the Africans didn't fight valiantly and kick out the invader. They didn't beat the brits or the froggies. They were simply given the civilization that the Europeans had imposed on them and sometimes even money to keep it running and what did they do?

They pissed it away. That deep down has to burn. They never accomplished anything of worth when they were on their own, they improved when ruled by Europeans, then have slid right back into juju cannibalism and squalor.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 07, 2015 1:22 PM  

You obviously haven't heard of the revolt of the East Asians when certain groups tries to get more Hispanic-directed affirmative action in in the University system in CA.

Look carefully, though. None of the Asian politicians switched parties, ditto for the voters. It was handled as an intra-Party disagreement, totally inside the Democratic machine. The East Asians will still vote Jerry Brown, just like the Hispanics, because one-party politics comes naturally to them.

VD
The average Asian is far more racist than the average KKK Grand Dragon.

I know a number of people who have spent time in China as cogs in the multinational machine, some of them pretty high ranking cogs. To a man they will agree in private that the Han Chinese are far more racist than anyone in North America. One man said to me "It's like one very large family; they may cheat their cousins sometimes, but they'll totallly rip off outsiders without a thought, because outsiders are only marginally human to the Han".

Anonymous Donn #0114 September 07, 2015 1:24 PM  

Pax -it's like nigger only not as polite nor do they care that it is a slur. They really are that racist. Yes, they say it all the time. At least when I was working for social services every time a person who wasn't the client answered the phone they would tell whomever I needed to speak to that a gwalow or gwalow fan was on the phone.

OpenID corvinus333 September 07, 2015 1:24 PM  

The great horror of the 21st century isn't going to be what the Europeans do to the Muslim invaders, but what the colonizing Chinese do to Africa.

@24 VD
Or what the Muslim invaders do to the Europeans. Tom Kratman's Caliphate, anyone?

It's interesting to note, however, that the most idiotically boneheaded Western European country regarding this Syrian-etc. "refugee" crisis right now is Germany. I guess France, Britain, the Low Countries, and the Nordics have finally had their fill of muzzies and darkies. The Paki-Rotherham scandal has appeared to have given Cameron at least some spine.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 1:25 PM  

Speaking to Asians being more racist, I get called "Gwai-lo" a lot. Is it standard practice for Chinese people to call Americans "Ghosts?"

Where is that?

You should learn to say: 我唔係鬼

Blogger Rico Suave September 07, 2015 1:25 PM  

"Assuming you're white-European: East Asian women are overrated, and if you procreated with them, your sons would be unattractive (think of Elliot Rodger)."

If the average white American female embraced femininity and kept in shape, I would find them more desirable. I like my women to act like women. I rarely get that from white American girls.

Anonymous Pax Romana September 07, 2015 1:26 PM  

@ 37

Awesome. Well, I guess I'll take the high road and not call them "Chinamen," or "Oriental Devils." At least not in English. (I'd rather lose my job for something I can't control than something I can)

Blogger Anthony Gillis, the Hydra-Headed Mockery September 07, 2015 1:28 PM  

Ah, #Wrongskin... A joke, you say? Trans already offers tremendous opportunities for black-knighting. The old fratboy joke about being a lesbian in a man's body isn't necessarily a joke any more, and you get cash and prizes. Who's to say #Wrongskin couldn't be next?

Blogger Mint September 07, 2015 1:29 PM  


It is all about resources. USA has limited resources. Sooner, the host will have to decide to take care of her own first with her resources or else sacrifice them in the name of diversity.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 2:06 PM  

The East Asians will still vote Jerry Brown, just like the Hispanics, because one-party politics comes naturally to them.

Hmmm, maybe those two or more thousand years living under emperors has selected them to like the big, powerful man. That possibly explains why so many Asians I know seem to support Trump.

However, Jerry Davis is a bit of a wimp.

Blogger RobertT September 07, 2015 2:12 PM  

If the Trump appeal is real, the tide may be changing. It's like "The Emperor's New Clothes." All it takes is one guy (Trump) saying, "hey, "that guy's naked," and the entire ruse falls apart. (I hope.) At least part of this is the way he fights back when he's attacked. I remember a video Vox posted several years ago. VD commented the guy should have kicked the assailant in the face as he left. Trump would totally do that, kick him in the face. But ... I've been known to give people more credit than they deserve. It's my long running Achilles heel.

Blogger RobertT September 07, 2015 2:16 PM  

Whoops. Intended to post my comment above on the subsequent post. Pardon.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 2:26 PM  

Kratman points to how the SJWs deal with their enemies.

Blogger Jack Ward September 07, 2015 2:40 PM  

@20 You might find it interesting looking into Bruce Lipton's theories concerning evolution and the primacy of DNA. I found him destroying the primacy of DNA theory; backed up with hard research and courageous papers by some real scientists.
There are plenty of utubes of his interviews and lectures for free. Or, to his site and buy some stuff.
I'm still scratching my head over it all, but, his pov does explain a lot.
On line look for utube Biology of Belief; the long 2.30 hour or more lecture whose title is quite long but starts with Activation of DNA. There is some speculative stuff concerning how to re-program your subconscious to control DNA response. Thats one of the things you might head scratch over.

Anonymous WillBest September 07, 2015 2:43 PM  

@40 Utter nonsense. Asian women absorb grrl pwr with a couple years exposure to western culture. It doesn't matter if you go over there to get them, bring them to the US and they turn into vipers all the same. In fact that is probably more likely since they were in it for the green card.

The best you can say of Asian women is that they are willing to exploit a market. The Asian female 6's rather than compete for top quality Asian men (who get all the 8+ Asian women) ladder jump over and grab the white deltas being ignored by the white women chasing alpha cock.

Result: an uptick swirly babies and barren post wall white women.

Blogger Jack Ward September 07, 2015 2:49 PM  

@47 So, Tom does a column at Every Joe? Thanks, didn't know that. Will have to keep an eye on Lines of Departure.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 07, 2015 2:54 PM  

I find it hard to mind Asians because ...they are pro civilization.

You don't know what you're talking about. They may not be barbarians in the same way as west Africans or arabs are, but they are not civilized in my book.

I watched a Chinese toddler get run over by a bicycle on a Beijing sidewalk and the hordes of people watching it laughed. Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.

And like Paradigm mentioned, cheating is just fine with them. They are a low-trust society. I like a lot of Chinese food too. I can cook it just fine myself, and even better, I use a fork to eat it.

Blogger Floyd Looney September 07, 2015 2:57 PM  

When California had the big fight over state colleges discriminating against Asians a while back, some of the "Asian Organisations" that had been taken over by SJW's were totally on the side of discriminating against the people they supposedly represented.

I have no idea if there were reverberations from that.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 2:58 PM  

I watched a Chinese toddler get run over by a bicycle on a Beijing sidewalk and the hordes of people watching it laughed. Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.

Is it any worse than all those people in Europe cheering when sub-Saharan and other thugs arrive who are going to cause them lots of pain.

I suspect that those Chinese people were laughing at the parents who didn't keep their kid out of harm's way.

Blogger Floyd Looney September 07, 2015 3:00 PM  

@29 What I expect to find if it were really studied is that white Americans were the least racist people on Earth.

OpenID corvinus333 September 07, 2015 3:04 PM  

The best you can say of Asian women is that they are willing to exploit a market. The Asian female 6's rather than compete for top quality Asian men (who get all the 8+ Asian women) ladder jump over and grab the white deltas being ignored by the white women chasing alpha cock.

Result: an uptick swirly babies and barren post wall white women.


@49 WillBest
The rule appears to be that the low-value people of a given race will get with whichever race is more sexually attractive. So, low-value (fat) white women get with black men, low-value (nerdy) white men get with Asian women, and low-value whites of either sex get with Hispanics.

Low-value (fat) black women are left out in the cold, since there are no orcs around. Similar story with low-value Asian men. Both groups give up and fall into a vicious spiral, with the black women becoming grossly fat and bitchy, and the Asian men going hikikomori.

Anonymous mayhem September 07, 2015 3:05 PM  

Pretty soon blacks may not need such help, Africa is the future...
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/05/the-future-is-african/?ncid=rss#.zexc8e:z4Tx

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 3:15 PM  

We should encourage those Tech Companies in their diversity efforts.

That will make it easier for White People to start companies.

Anonymous Dr. J September 07, 2015 3:17 PM  

Fortunately, that could never happen because Asians don't outnumber Americans like Europeans outnumbered Native Americans... wait a minute!

What - you think China sees a ready solution for 30 million single men?

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 3:17 PM  

A black woman whines in that article:

I left Dropbox because as a black woman working on bettering myself, the tech industry doesn’t give a shit. Even with the skills to do more, if I had stayed at Dropbox, I would have always had the submissive role of serving others and never calling the shots. Why? Because a white manager didn’t want to see me do more.

I encourage DropBox to let black women do more.

Anonymous Geoff September 07, 2015 3:17 PM  

The Asian invasion of North America should be a huge concern. They are smart enough to take over the place, and they will do so without regard for such niceties as Western civilization and Christian morality.

Anonymous Whitey McWhite September 07, 2015 3:22 PM  

60. Geoff: "The Asian invasion of North America should be a huge concern. They are smart enough to take over the place, and they will do so without regard for such niceties as Western civilization and Christian morality."

We're getting a government-imported unassimilable ruling class in Australia too.

Anonymous Femare Japanese Poritician September 07, 2015 3:29 PM  

Ret me terr you about my erections.

Anonymous Dr. J September 07, 2015 3:29 PM  

In all seriousness, what's keeping the Chinese from a massive black-knight campaign of immigration to California? Asians already have a nice beachhead there (1.3 million Chinese). Our government has made clear it's open to a full-on invasion and won't lift a finger to stop it.

Pack ships with hundreds of thousands of single men, land them in LA and San Fran, claiming they're all fleeing the horrors of Communism. The ACLU would be lining up to process the amnesty requests while they basically overrun the place. The welfare checks could allow them to arm themselves locally. Then they could hold a Crimean-style vote for independence/union with China. I doubt even that would prompt the limp-wristed jack-offs in DC to lift a finger.

Anonymous D. MacQuin September 07, 2015 3:32 PM  

"Although, what exactly is the benefit to whites to have Asians going to their top universities instead of whites?"

Hi VD, I am confused by this question. Are you concerned that Asians will outnumber Whites at universities? I thought Asians made up a small percentage of good universities.

Anonymous Geoff September 07, 2015 3:39 PM  

Good point, Mr. McWhite. I hear Asians are now around 25% of Australia's population and rising. Not quite that high in North America but getting there in places like California and British Columbia, e.g. Vancouver is now over 40% Asian!

Forget the Mexicans and the Muslims. The Asian invasion is a much bigger problem.

Blogger YIH September 07, 2015 3:41 PM  

@51 Jack Amok:
I watched a Chinese toddler get run over by a bicycle on a Beijing sidewalk and the hordes of people watching it laughed. Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.
The kid was lucky it was a bicycle.

Blogger James Dixon September 07, 2015 3:42 PM  

> Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.

I agree that it's not the civilization we would want. But it is a civilization. And one that will probably outlast ours. You see, it wasn't their child, and life is cheap to societies that value the collective over the individual. And that's been the case of most societies throughout most of history.

Anonymous Discard September 07, 2015 3:43 PM  

63. Dr. J: The Chinese will not scare Whites into opposing them. They know that their greatest advantage is appearing to be unthreatening. Chinese gangs do not attack Whites, they feed on their own. Credit card fraud excepted, because you don't see their faces.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 3:43 PM  

We're getting a government-imported unassimilable ruling class in Australia too.

Interesting. Mao gets the last laugh, eh. His encouraging Chinese women to have lots of babies has created a demographic juggernaut. (And they seem to be relaxing the one-child policy as well.)

Forget about learning Spanish if you live in the US. Chinese might be a better language to learn.

Blogger Rico Suave September 07, 2015 3:44 PM  

@Jack Amok. I only know my own experiences. Where I live Asians are 3% of the population.

Blogger YIH September 07, 2015 3:46 PM  

Plenty to read here about the so-called ''model minority''.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 3:50 PM  

Plenty to read here about the so-called ''model minority''.

I know a Chinese guy whose parents live in San Fran.

He readily admits that if his father falls in the street (the parents are getting old) it is only whites who will help him.

Anonymous WillBest September 07, 2015 3:51 PM  

@64 depends on what you define as good. The Ivy league caps Asians to 16% of enrollment when "merit" dictates that they be closer to 40%.

Berkley and UCLA which for the most part aren't allowed to discriminate have 40% Asian enrollment.

Of course the heads of the Ivy League apparently haven't learned the lessons. They capped a certain other group at 16% and the results since have been suboptimal.


Anonymous BigGaySteve September 07, 2015 4:00 PM  

Other robot"I doubt that Asian men will appreciate you much" you seem to have come up with my reponseHmmm, maybe those two or more thousand years living under emperors has selected them to like the big, powerful man

Now let's talk about gays and muzzlums.

I told a guy he might not get approved right away & might have to wait a year to enter the RN program at a college. He told me he had sex a party at the college VP's house so he was guaranteed a spot. That the VP's house was a "safe space" for guys not old enough to go to the gay bars.

And many of the South East Asians are pushing to be broken out separately

Somehow i doubt they are saying "Don't use our numbers to lower the Asian IQ scores" "but more like "give us the bennies"

Obviously, the solution for a mediocre Asian is to identify as black.

You should have linked the guy from india that claimed to be black.

Redmond now runs her own business making educational apps for children, while Means, 36, has moved to Rome to work on a novel

Like the annual announcements of women preferring to be part time pediatricians as opposed to surgeons on call that have to stand for hours a time, & have their vacation time chosen for them by others. I was in healthcare for years before I found out that many hospital doctors in the higher paying specializations don't have a choice when they can go on vacation.

The average Asian is far more racist than the average KKK Grand Dragon

Maybe I should rethink saying it would rather have David Duke as a neighbor than any black moslem.

but what the colonizing Chinese do to Africa. I would rather they did soylent green than drove them to Europe.

I watched a Chinese toddler get run over by a bicycle on a Beijing sidewalk and the hordes of people watching it laughed.

Asians can tell the difference between different Asian ethnicities better than any white guy. They might not think everyone should have a pool alarm because a stupid uncaring mom who didn't pay attention to her kids that says everyone should & that she wouldn't have ignored the alarm going off.

Anonymous kh123 September 07, 2015 4:04 PM  

" 'Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.'

I agree that it's not the civilization we would want. But it is a civilization. And one that will probably outlast ours."


Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but is less the fatalist "pick your poison" and more a deliberative declaration that that is a hell most white Americans could not - or would not want to - live under, civilization or no.

There's a line that describes a recent low-trust society: "And in a city of millions, one was as isolated as if in a desert."

Is the difference between "secure" and bezopasnost, from a post earlier this week.

Anonymous BGS September 07, 2015 4:15 PM  

Pretty soon blacks may not need such help, Africa is the future

Another article about what anyone but blacks could do with Africa's resources. Has it been a decade yet since India had more cell phones than toilets?

Blogger buwaya September 07, 2015 4:21 PM  

"Chinese might be a better language to learn."
Chinese (Cantonese flavor) is a much more useful language.

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 4:25 PM  

@77 Why Cantonese? True, it's spoken in Hong Kong, but Taiwan and the Chinese mainland officially speak Mandarin.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 4:28 PM  

Why Cantonese?

Because then you would know what they were saying when they said: 死鬼佬

Blogger Floyd Looney September 07, 2015 4:32 PM  

I want to learn Korean, I love their shows. :p

Blogger ray September 07, 2015 4:34 PM  

Identity politics is evil incarnate. Only corruption and hate result from the endless Politics of Resentment.


These are not grassroots policies or movements. The impetus for our culture of Group Grabbing comes from the top. It's like putting a handle on the various identity interests . . . makes them easy to manipulate for larger purposes. Large groups, including polities, are always easier to steer and control than individuals. Human behavior at mass levels is very predictable.

The health of the American nation and its citizens doesn't even register on the elite scale. And Beltway politicians, operatives, and assorted vampires do not constitute the elite.

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 4:37 PM  

@79 Yeah, I think I'd know it in Mandarin, too.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 4:43 PM  

@79 Yeah, I think I'd know it in Mandarin, too.

However, they don't use that term in Mandarin.

Anonymous Me So bw September 07, 2015 4:48 PM  

That's what they get for not invading the west coast.

But they easily could have and it was obviously in the works.

Anonymous WillBest September 07, 2015 4:58 PM  

Somehow i doubt they are saying "Don't use our numbers to lower the Asian IQ scores" "but more like "give us the bennies"

Well obviously the goal is to stop getting the CJK 50 point penalty, and instead get an 80 point bump because discrimination is the reason Cambodians score 130 points lower on the SAT than their northern cousins.

Was a thread back when I frequented somethingawful where one of these Ivy league admission clowns was bemoaning how it wasn't that they were discriminating against Asians so much as every Asian has the same resume so there would be no diversity if they admitted them based on test scores alone. Top 3% class, 97th+ percentile SAT, violin, piano, volunteer at library, tennis or badminton, student council, upper middle class suburbs intact family, etc.

Conformist nature I supposed. All using the same template without any real attempt to deviate.

One of the reasons why I think the white elite doesn't really give a damn about what happens is because they aren't particularly worried about dispatching an enemy that isn't particularly creative even if they are ruthless and have numbers.

Blogger ray September 07, 2015 4:58 PM  

"Interesting. Mao gets the last laugh, eh."

They kept him and his bolsheviks outta the Japanese mainland in '45, and he knew he couldn't conquer America militarily. So he conquered America culturally and spiritually.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster September 07, 2015 5:31 PM  

@86: If I remember correctly, the US government refused to sell weapons to Chiang Kai-Shek when he was in a position to wipe out Mao's Communists once and for all. If they had, China would have avoided decades of Communist dystopia, and the best part of a hundred million lives might have been saved.

I'm sure that was nothing to do with those mythical Communists in the US government, who we now know couldn't possibly have existed because McCarthy was just an evil bigot.

Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 5:41 PM  

@83 The characters are the same and the meaning comes through loud and clear. My experience, however, has been mostly in Taiwan, where the Taiwanese have a particularly "endearing" term for people of European extraction which means "Big Nose". Don't know the characters, since the Taiwanese language is yet a different dialect from either Cantonese or Mandarin. And yes, Chinese people can be astoundingly "ethnocentric".

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 5:52 PM  

@51
I watched a Chinese toddler get run over by a bicycle on a Beijing sidewalk and the hordes of people watching it laughed. Whatever that was, it wasn't civilization.


Chinese mainland civilization has always struck me as being pretty screwed up in comparison with modern Western civilization. There are some aspects that I now understand better the reasoning behind them (although they're still disgusting) - such as making your child shit on the road, but among other things there is the rampant disregard for human life and complete lack of individualism. I suspect that the Cultural Revolution and 70 years of Communist rule has done a lot to screw up the general mentality - the middle class was basically wiped out and fled to Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore, and Western countries. Hopefully, with the rapid spread of Christianity in China the prevailing moral norms will slowly evolve and change. We already see that in the West, a large proportion of Asian Americans are Christian, and often more seriously Christian than their merely culturally Christian white neighbors.

Anonymous TimP September 07, 2015 5:54 PM  

@65 Geoff:

> I hear Asians are now around 25% of Australia's population and rising.

That's probably not true on the whole. There may be sections where it's getting that high (I'm looking at you Sydney), but the most recent census indicates under 10% Asian, and probably about the same number various other races (including Australian Aboriginal, hispanics, Africans, etc), with the remaining 80-85% white. But this is 4 years ago, and the minority groups, particularly Asians, are growing.

Blogger ray September 07, 2015 6:00 PM  

Yeah they really lit the Boomers up with that Bad McCarthy rap! While installing their Victim Politburo from the other side of the tongue.

Candy from a baby. Generation Duped.

Dunno about the Chiang tactics, or his full capabilities. Like to hear if you know. By '45 Chiang's military options were v. limited; he'd been playing off Russia vs. America for years.

Mao's incipient show was being run from Moscow however, and Chiang certainly hadn't capacity to 'wipe out' the Big Red Machine. Nor did the U.S want that. Under certain conditions, Chiang could have crushed Manchurian communism. For awhile.

I think Fat Man was lobbed at the Soviets and their tool Mao. Though it landed on Japan. Little Boy and the firebomb raids already had finished the Empire. So the second bomb had alternate (and various) messages.

In those days, the Nip mainland was surrounded northerly by Stalin's Reds. For reasons I will spare folks here, I suspect that Japan itself was the main prize, partly for strategics (Pacific Theatre key) but partly for more esoteric reasons.


Anonymous Tim the Enchanter September 07, 2015 6:12 PM  

@91 Not sure what you're getting at with your reference to the Boomers. If it's the baby boomers you're referring to, in 1950 when McCarthy was doing his thing, the oldest Boomers were 4 years old.

Anonymous BGS September 07, 2015 6:36 PM  

such as making your child shit on the road, but among other things there is the rampant disregard for human life

Even San Fran is trying to reduce that http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-to-solve-San-Francisco-s-homeless-pooping-6465355.php

in 1950 when McCarthy was doing his thing

after the US was able to buy KGB files it turned out McCarthy seriously underestimated the numbers.

Anonymous Quacky the Duck September 07, 2015 7:00 PM  

"I suspect that the Cultural Revolution and 70 years of Communist rule has done a lot to screw up the general mentality"

Nah, it's a lot more than that. That culture is like 5,000 years old. Do some reading.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 07, 2015 7:08 PM  

I agree that it's not the civilization we would want. But it is a civilization

I'm at the point where I'm not willing to call any collection of people who manage to build shacks next to one another and (usually) feed themselves a civilization. A civilization implies the people in it are civilized and I just can't extend that description to a society as clannish as Chinese society.

Anonymous Quacky the Duck September 07, 2015 7:26 PM  

"A civilization implies the people in it are civilized and I just can't extend that description to a society as clannish as Chinese society."

Chuang-Tzu. Han Fei. Tu Fu. Li Po. Master Mo. Su-Tung-p'o. Han Shan. Po Chu-I. Master K'ung, for heaven's sake. Read the damn I Ching. Read the "Second Prose Poem on the Visit to Red Cliff." Read SOMETHING.

For crying out loud, Su Shih was a high Modernist in the Ezra Pound tradition 1,000 years before Ezra Pound was born. Granted, Catullus lived and wrote earlier, and William Blake is better than all three (well, maybe Blake doesn't ace Catullus, and Su is in his own category), but still.

Chinese culture/civilization for sure has a lot that is wanting, and a lot that is ripe for criticism. So did Nero and Heliogabulus. Not quite the same barbarous thing as Sudan or Eritrea, though. The Tai-pings were interesting, because they were so damn bat-shit crazy, but within a context that was not, entirely. Worse than Mao in certain ways, if you can believe it, but it is of course debatable. So was An Lu-shan, not because he was bloodier, but because what he destroyed was more valuable. Baby/bathwater, that sorta thing. Read more.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster September 07, 2015 7:28 PM  

@91: "Mao's incipient show was being run from Moscow however, and Chiang certainly hadn't capacity to 'wipe out' the Big Red Machine."

Oh, there'd still have been Communists, because Moscow would have kept funding wherever they could. But Mao's could certainly have been wiped out. His abilities and support were always exaggerated, because... as we know... SJWs always lie.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 7:33 PM  

A civilization implies the people in it are civilized and I just can't extend that description to a society as clannish as Chinese society.

Chinese society is "clannish" mostly against non-Chinese or non-Han. This is not abnormal - most societies throughout history have been fearful of outsiders. Other than that it's not much more clannish than any other society with clans. As for them not being "civilized", it seems like you are equating civilized values with Christian or European values. Can you give an example of a civilization which is not Christian or European then?

Blogger ray September 07, 2015 7:36 PM  

The "McCarthy Is Crazy Ha Ha!" meme was sold mainly to the Booms, not to the prior generation. The target generation for the vast majority of pre-NWO propaganda was the Boomers. That propaganda has to be in place BEFORE those generations exist . . . or at least when they're kids, so it can percolate properly, and they can assume it as their own Revealed Truth.

The McCarthy deke lasted a couple (fertile) decades. It was extremely effective at prepping the Booms to know (not believe) that there was no real commie threat in America. Heh.

The scam wasn't intended to function during McCarthy's actual hour.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 7:42 PM  

@94

Nah, it's a lot more than that. That culture is like 5,000 years old. Do some reading.

I agree that the majority of Chinese values have roots that are much more than the result of the Cultural Revolution, but what I'm talking about are more "superficial" features of the culture, like hygiene issues. Even compared to other cultures in the area, like Korean, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, or Malay culture, Chinese mainland people are incredibly rude, brash, disgusting, and selfish. They mess up tourist areas all over Asia by littering or literally shitting in them, they don't clean up after themselves, and so on. It's weird when you see a Chinese family with middle-class wealth behaving like lower-class people. One theory I have read about is that the Cultural Revolution destroyed many of the bourgeois values that we have come to expect the majority of people in civilized societies (middle class) to have. The result is a culture which doesn't value literature, the arts, cleanliness, nor manners.

Blogger ray September 07, 2015 7:42 PM  

93 -- "after the US was able to buy KGB files it turned out McCarthy seriously underestimated the numbers."


Doubtless. Didn't take 'em long to take over, did it?

Anonymous Reader September 07, 2015 7:43 PM  

60. Geoff:The Asian invasion of North America should be a huge concern.

@61 McWhite: We're getting a government-imported unassimilable ruling class in Australia too.


Which one? Actually, when I look-up I see mostly whites. And Australia is still one of the most peaceful places on the planet. Of course, we have some cases like the Lidnt Cafe seige, and for that all we have to do is to vote for the right government. But what I see is the number problem in Aus, is too much political correctness and people take offence so easily. There's a problem with freedom of speech in this country.

And if you don't want the ruling class to change colour, then work a bit harder at school and reduce your time lying down at the beach. The fact is, from a study I read, that the second generation Asian migrants are least represented on the Centrelink dole list.

Why sour grapes when their is a solution.

VD said: Fortunately, that could never happen because Asians don't outnumber Americans like Europeans outnumbered Native Americans... wait a minute!

Didn't you propose a solution long time ago? Halt all immigration, legal or illegal. And there's another maybe: get the white women to breed more. This is not to judge them, just basing it on facts. white women are not breeding more though they have more partners in their lifetime than Asian women have.




Blogger ray September 07, 2015 7:48 PM  

"But Mao's could certainly have been wiped out. His abilities and support were always exaggerated, because... as we know... SJWs always lie."


OK. Thanks. If Mao had been stopped, the Reds would still be at the northern door, though, yes? . . . just slightly different shade of red.

Mao was Communist Russia's tool, so I assume the U.S. didn't wish that type of confrontation with Stalin, at that time.

Not my area of expertise however and I am open to information and instruction.

Blogger papabear September 07, 2015 7:56 PM  

"I suspect that the Cultural Revolution and 70 years of Communist rule has done a lot to screw up the general mentality - the middle class was basically wiped out and fled to Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore, and Western countries."

That plus the dehumanizing effect of living in large population centers.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 07, 2015 7:58 PM  

For all you people commenting on how uncivilized the east
Asians are, or how much you wouldn't want to live among them...Jared Taylor begs to disagree. He's the #1 Evil Racist of all Racist Evilers, and he loves Japan, and assays that it's the best-run country in the world. Bar none.

Anonymous Reader September 07, 2015 8:02 PM  

I'm replying to the ff. quotes that didn't appear on my reply at 102

@61 Whitey: We're getting a government-imported unassimilable ruling class in Australia too.

VD:Fortunately, that could never happen because Asians don't outnumber Americans like Europeans outnumbered Native Americans... wait a minute!

Anonymous Jim Milo September 07, 2015 8:11 PM  

@15 Yes, women 'driven' from tech move to Rome, after a summer in the Hamptons, and a month or so on Daddy's yacht in Bermuda.

My great aunt went from riches to rags in the depression, and was bitter for the rest of her life. We're going to see a lot more of thst I'm afraid.



Anonymous Quacky the Duck September 07, 2015 8:11 PM  

@physphilmusic ---

well I don't disagree in absolute terms. (I've studied a great deal about Asia over its several storied millennia, but I've never actually lived there; but I do know what Canal Street is like.) I just think there are different strata, as there are going to be in any complex society. To call the Chinese "uncivilized", when the Japanese and Koreans emulated a vast and sophisticated and highly literate empire, is to be a bit naïve. One of the great puzzling questions in cultural history is (pace Joseph Needham, who wondered why China didn't advance into hard science, despite having all the available advantages), why China gave up on philosophy as a discipline.

Chinese philosophical discourse was pretty sturdy around the time of Confucius and Lao-Tzu; there was a tendency towards Taoist mysticism that pushed away from the sorts of things Plato and Aristotle were striving towards (not a bad thing in itself, but, speaking as a mystic, handle with care), but defeat wasn't inevitable, they just sort of stopped going in that direction. Why that was, is anyone's guess. I have heard it argued that for linguistic reasons, Greek and Latin are simply more flexible and better suited for philosophical inquiry than Chinese, which is, let's face it, a very strange language. Whether that's true or not is beyond my scope; what is true is that the West came up with Aristotle and Erasmus and Descartes and Kant and Hume and Locke, and so on, and the Chinese tradition pretty much ran out of gas after Mencius (personally I think the issue was that the Chinese thinkers were more interested in practical issues of political philosophy, --look at the Legalists if you doubt me-- whereas the Western thinkers were concentrating on both that, and also the nature of thought itself: Aristotle is much more systematic and coherent than Plato, but Plato is more adventurous), but that's debatable and I would never insist.

Anonymous Jim Milo September 07, 2015 8:15 PM  

@17 Under the tax code here you get to write off business losses for three years, after which it's considered a hobby. Good way to clear up back taxes if you have Daddy or Betacuck paying.

Anonymous Jim Milo September 07, 2015 8:36 PM  

@59

Dropbox? Never thought I'd see the day when hosting an FTP site was a 'career' not to mention someone complaining about it.

Anonymous Sheila September 07, 2015 8:36 PM  

We lived in Singapore for 2 years. I recall warning my husband against jaywalking our first day there - I still thought all those laws they trumpet truly meant something. Jaywalking is endemic there, although traffic does follow rules and isn't nearly as chaotic as Thailand. As far as "civilization" and "hygiene" go, they all hawk and spit in the street (that has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with being culturally Han) and the elevators in their housing complexes all have urine sensors for a reason. My husband used to pick up the trash the giggling office girls dropped as they walked along, go tap them on their shoulders and say "I think you dropped this?" Easiest way to make them lose face.

There was one Chinese Singaporean in my birth class (taught by a British woman married to a Singaporean). She hoped to have a natural birth, although she was under immense pressure (from both her mother and mother-in-law) to have a caesarean (they schedule births there to occur in auspicious months and/or years plus they consider it better for one's figure). She also hoped to breastfeed, although traditional foods for new mothers (like black chicken) can cause jaundice in newborns. It's also traditional not to shower or wash for 4-6 weeks after giving birth because this is believed to cause rheumatism and other ailments.

Our Texas neighborhood is heavily Asian - and the high school dropped Latin and started offering Chinese instead. They only socialize with one another, have caused the school district to limit GPAs to 3 decimal places when calculating valedictorian, and are incredibly pushy and rude.

One of many reasons I strongly oppose a meritocracy, or Sailer's idea of "citizenship." I'd rather live amongst median IQ Whites than in an Asian neighborhood or country any day.

Anonymous The other robot September 07, 2015 8:41 PM  

It seems that fires broke out at refugee centers in Germany etc ... and someone who looks like a German version of Bruce Jenner says he is a [h]uman being ...

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 8:55 PM  

To call the Chinese "uncivilized", when the Japanese and Koreans emulated a vast and sophisticated and highly literate empire, is to be a bit naïve.

As I said, I think the Chinese (at least the mainlanders) are only "uncivilized" with regards to 20th-21st century norms of modern etiquette, such as cleanliness and orderliness - this is why I believe Communism is partly responsible. Other than that, no sane person could disagree that they certainly have had a rich and high civilization over the last few millennia.

As for why they gave up on philosophy - well I'm not sure if that's the most important or useful question to answer. Certainly Needham's question about why they couldn't obtain the scientific revolution is more important, and might even partially explain the stagnation of philosophy itself. I myself speculate that over the centuries China built a very strong tradition of hierarchy and conformity based on Confucianism that rewarded innovators less and less. As time went on, China became even more unified and homogeneous. Compare this with Europe, which has always been divided into many states that are very different culturally and ethnically, allowing more diversity of ideas to spring up (e.g. Martin Luther being able to flee to a different noble who was willing to support him).

In addition, China has only been "losing" to Europe for the last 500 years. Europe were perhaps "lucky" to have that little spark of the Scientific Revolution that drove progress forward for the next few centuries. If the next Great Innovation happens to turn up in Asia or even Africa, that civilization might become the most advanced for the next few centuries.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 9:07 PM  

We lived in Singapore for 2 years. I recall warning my husband against jaywalking our first day there - I still thought all those laws they trumpet truly meant something. Jaywalking is endemic there, although traffic does follow rules and isn't nearly as chaotic as Thailand. As far as "civilization" and "hygiene" go, they all hawk and spit in the street (that has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with being culturally Han) and the elevators in their housing complexes all have urine sensors for a reason.

If you think Singaporean culture is on the same level as China, then either 1) you're being dishonest, or 2) you have never visited China. Singaporeans do not spit on roads nearly as often as in other Asian cultures, or even Western cultures. You do not see spit being strewn about if you walk on any of the main streets. It's also very weird for you to call jaywalking "endemic" - I've lived in both Singapore and the US and I certainly saw more people jaywalking in America. Interestingly, one of the greatest sources of outrage now is the native Singaporeans complaining about the disgusting habits of mainland Chinese immigrants.

That being said, Singapore was indeed at China's level 60 years ago. Their rapid cultural and technological progress was achieved in a generation, which required authoritarian rule and very restricted laws, and there are clear remnants of that old mentality everywhere - such as occasional littering. But currently, Singapore is incredibly clean and well-ordered, even compared to Western standards. In my experience New York, Boston, SF, and LA were much dirtier and disorganized compared to Singapore.

Anonymous Sheila September 07, 2015 9:36 PM  

@113 - I never compared Singapore to mainland China. I specifically said that a lot of their behavior, based on what I've read about China, seems quite similar, which I specifically attributed to their genetic and cultural Han identity.

As far as jaywalking goes, it's been decades since I've lived downtown in a US city, as well as downtown Singapore. My personal experiences were that jaywalking was far worse in Singapore than in DC. My point was that despite the reputed draconian law, the behavior was widely practiced and persisted.

As you note, Singapore's "progress" required authoritarian rule. What you label the "old mentality" is more correctly labeled traditional, centuries old, highly ingrained cultural habits. I've witnessed the same by Chinese here in Texas.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 07, 2015 9:41 PM  

As I said, I think the Chinese (at least the mainlanders) are only "uncivilized" with regards to 20th-21st century norms of modern

This is my point. The bar for what qualifies as "civilized" has been raised a bit in the last thousand years and the Chinese simply haven't kept up. I'm also quite aware of their history - of how far it stretches back and of how amazingly little they have accomplished in all that time.

this is why I believe Communism is partly responsible.

Chinese stagnation predates Mao by at least a thousand years.

Other than that, no sane person could disagree that they certainly have had a rich and high civilization over the last few millennia.

I'm quite sane and I disagree. What would you consider the pinnacle of their cultural achievement?

In addition, China has only been "losing" to Europe for the last 500 years.

Correct. Prior to that, China was losing to Mongols, Jurchen and Xiongnu.

For all you people commenting on how uncivilized the east
Asians are, ...Jared Taylor begs to disagree. He's the #1 Evil Racist of all Racist Evilers, and he loves Japan, and assays that it's the best-run country in the world. Bar none.


I said the Chinese didn't deserve to be called civilized. Japanese are not Chinese. I would far rather live among Japanese - even with them freely calling me a ghost - than among Chinese.


Anonymous Sheila September 07, 2015 9:55 PM  

I just found something rather apropos to this thread over at therightstuff. If I may be permitted to quote from it:

"And isn't that nice! Conservatives genuinely believe in meritocracy. They're not fooling. They really would like to live in a society where we all believe in capitalism, Christianity, monogamy, and the rule of law, and otherwise didn't worry too much about anyone's geographic origin. I have to admit, that sort of place would be nice to live.

The problem is this sort of ideal is completely utopian. Let's imagine for just a moment that all traits of habit, intellect, and behavior are spread homogeneously across the globe. This is false, of course, but let's indulge the egalitarian fantasy that "race is only skin deep" for a moment.

The fact is that if two groups of people have very different physical features, the only way this is possible is if they haven't socialized much over the last few centuries. Whatever delusions people hold about IQ, no one pretends skin color isn't heritable. And if two peoples haven't socialized, it means their values, morals, social norms, and ethics have evolved in relative isolation from each other.

In other words, assuming that someone who doesn't look like you doesn't think like you is simply playing the odds. We cannot a priori expect that any culture outside of Western Europe produces significant numbers of people who are amenable to freedom in a law-based republic."

I highly recommend the rest - it's liberty and ethnicity at therightstuff.

Anonymous Sheila September 07, 2015 10:01 PM  

As an aside/personal anecdote - I did not live in an American expat bubble in Singapore, but I did live in a diplomatic/business bubble. Our friends included Turks, Brits, Kiwis, Chinese from Australia and a few Chinese Singaporeans. My son's playgroup included two Japanese boys - but no Chinese Singaporeans.

Anonymous Heads Up September 07, 2015 10:02 PM  

Merkel will be assassinated.

Anonymous Heads Up September 07, 2015 10:07 PM  

Merkel will be assassinated

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 10:32 PM  

I never compared Singapore to mainland China. I specifically said that a lot of their behavior, based on what I've read about China, seems quite similar, which I specifically attributed to their genetic and cultural Han identity.

Perhaps you lived in Singapore in a much earlier time (80s or 90s?). My experience just disagrees with what you said. In my several years of living in Singapore, I never saw anyone spit in the road (not even smaller alleys, streets, or parking lots), nor did I ever see anyone littering the roads openly. There is sometimes some littering in the main public places, but most of that is from tourists or foreign construction workers or maids. Singapore culture is not quite at the level of upper-middle-class SWPL whites living in American suburbias, but they are closer to that than they are to their Han cousins in China. This shows to me that Chinese behaviors like spitting in public are not endemic to Chinese genetics. They are heavily influenced by population density and government.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 10:43 PM  

I'm quite sane and I disagree. What would you consider the pinnacle of their cultural achievement?

QuackyDuck probably knows more than me, but I would say things like Confucian philosophy, the Great Wall, the imperial examination system, the "Four Great Chinese Inventions", Sun Tzu. Yes, none of these are comparable to the European achievements of the last 500 years. It is certainly true that in the last 200 years (or at least up to the 1990s) China hasn't really achieved anything, in fact it regressed. At the same time, these are still great cultural achievements compared to many other civilizations around the world.

Correct. Prior to that, China was losing to Mongols, Jurchen and Xiongnu.

China only lost militarily to the Mongols. Culturally, Mongols were influenced by Chinese culture way more than vice versa.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 07, 2015 11:17 PM  

but I would say things like Confucian philosophy, the Great Wall, the imperial examination system, the "Four Great Chinese Inventions", Sun Tzu.

Philosophy, sure, but name a list of significant Chinese philosophers. There's Confucius, Mencius, Daijian, Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu if you want, maybe Yang Zhu. Now compare to, say, the ancient Greeks. They produced more all by themselves in a three-hundred year span than the entire Chinese "civilization" has in three thousand years. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Pythagoras, Zeno, Diogenes, Epicurus... and of course that has been built upon - for good and bad - by legions of other western philosophers in the centuries since.

There's certainly something to be appreciated in Daoism and Confucism and Zen, but as a major civilizational accomplishment, at best those might be granted a tie with one part of Western Civilization.

Likewise, the Four Great Inventions - start comparing to European civilizations and... they look a little paltry. Certainly I give the Chinese credit for accomplishing more than, say, Africans or even (sorry Tommy) Arabs, but at best I consider them semi-civilized. And contrary to Vox's Time To Civilization theory, they don't seem to be progressing. They seem to be stuck at the same place they were two thousand years ago.

China only lost militarily to the Mongols. Culturally, Mongols were influenced by Chinese culture way more than vice versa.

China lost militarily to every Turkic people who got up the energy to invade. Culturally, sure they influenced their conquerors, but I still see that as semi-barbarians influencing complete barbarians. Mongols pretty much adopted whatever local customs they found, wherever they found them. All the Turkic people did. That's why the Ottoman's were Moslems, they went west and conquered Islamic peoples. Their ancestors were Confucists because they went east and conquered the Chinese.


Yes, none of these are comparable to the European achievements of the last 500 years...

They're barely comparable to the Mediterranean achievements of two thousand years ago. It's like they never got out of Kindergarten.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 07, 2015 11:56 PM  

They produced more all by themselves in a three-hundred year span than the entire Chinese "civilization" has in three thousand years. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Pythagoras, Zeno, Diogenes, Epicurus... and of course that has been built upon - for good and bad - by legions of other western philosophers in the centuries since.

Precisely - the contributions of the Greeks might seem more significant simply because they have been built upon by the precursors of the current, superior Western civilization. If we were living in 800 AD, then Confucius would probably be easily viewed as more superior compared to the Greeks. If in 500 years China becomes the dominant power, then probably by then Confucius' philosophy would have been developed in a manner similar to how Plato's and Aristotle's have been.

Viewed on their own merits, I wouldn't say that the Sophists, Epicureans, Stoics, Pythagoreans, and so on were much more brilliant than Chinese philosophers. Perhaps one can make a case for some parts of Plato and Aristotle, since they feature and develop logical reasoning, which is universal, but that's it. Greek mathematics, AFAIK, was not significantly more advanced than Chinese mathematics - e.g., the Chinese have their version of Pythagoras' theorem.

Certainly I give the Chinese credit for accomplishing more than, say, Africans or even (sorry Tommy) Arabs, but at best I consider them semi-civilized.

Rather than proclaiming being "civilized" as some sort of definite, golden standard with which you can measure and put a stamp on certain cultures, I would rather say that human civilization as a whole develops throughout history, and so the golden standard keeps changing, depending on which culture is in the forefront. China has relatively slowed down and stagnated in the last 500-1000 years, but it certainly had a period (the Song and Tang Dynasties) when Europe was a shithole and it was for a few centuries the most civilized nation on Earth. I don't think it's very meaningful to sum up the accomplishments of China of the last 3000 years, compare them with the West's and use this to determine how "civilized" they are. It's more meaningful to compare China at any era to its contemporaries in Europe.

Currently, Western civilization is still the technological and scientific standard for civilization, but in 100 years, who knows? Especially considering the self-destructive tendencies of current Western civilization.

Anonymous physphilmusic September 08, 2015 12:01 AM  

I'm curious, as you've said that you wouldn't mind living among the Japanese, do you view them as being civilized? Which cultural accomplishments would you point to in support of that?

Blogger Kirk Parker September 08, 2015 12:54 AM  

BigGaySteve,

"I was in healthcare for years before I found out that many hospital doctors in the higher paying specializations don't have a choice when they can go on vacation."

Try being an ER doc! You have to take your share of the Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc shifts.


@ 89,

Regarding Chinese civilition, a friend who lived in Hong Kong for years explained it to me this way. When he first got there, he was shocked at e.g. the disrespect shown to elderly ladies on public transportation. Weren't the Chinese supposed to be all about respect for elders? Then one day he got it: in China you absolutely must respect your elders--but that little old lady on the bus is a stranger, so she's NOT your elder.

Blogger Harold September 08, 2015 2:06 AM  

@124
Try being an boiler operator! You have to take your share of the Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc shifts.

Or for that matter, any other 24/7/365 job. And if your relief doesn't show up, too bad.

Blogger buwaya puti September 08, 2015 2:44 AM  

China invented bureaucracy.
That's why their technological superiority was, eventually, at the degenerate stage of a dynasty, useless.
Also why the Chinese state discouraged change and expansion.
It certainly explains their failures vs the Manchu/Jurchen.
The armies and generals at the front were undercut by Ming dynasty office politics. Look into the details and much is explained. The Chinese bureaucrats betrayed their successful generals, overtaxed the peasants so they revolted, couldn't pay the troops so they revolted too (having betrayed the generals didn't help), so armies dissolved or joined the Manchu.

Everybody lost to the Mongols. No one could stand before them in their day. Europeans did no better.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 08, 2015 3:01 AM  

Viewed on their own merits, I wouldn't say that the Sophists, Epicureans, Stoics, Pythagoreans, and so on were much more brilliant than Chinese philosophers.

I said I'd call it a tie. But you're missing the point that that's all the Chinese got. All of their history and the best they can do is a tie, maybe a loss, against 300 years of the earliest part of Western Civilization. That's what I mean about them barely making it out of Kindergarten. It's not as you say that Western Europe is just the current gold standard. It's that in 3000 years, al the bazillions of Chinese have barely accomplished what a relative handful of Greeks living on one peninsula full of rocky-ass soil accomplished in a tenth the time.

You could match all of Chinese history up against at least a half dozen 500 year spans of various Western Civilization societies and find a similar result.

I'm curious, as you've said that you wouldn't mind living among the Japanese, do you view them as being civilized?

I said I'd rather live among Japanese than among Chinese, that's not quite the same thing as not minding living among them.

But I do consider Japanese civilized. Perhaps only recently civilized, but civilized none-the-less. The only reason I brought up cultural accomplishments was because you had claimed the Chinese had a "rich and high civilization" for millennia. This is a common claim, but I see no evidence of anything very rich or sublime about the millennia of various Chinese dynasties.

The Japanese, far, far fewer in number than the Chinese and having spent most of their time in isolation, living on rocky islands with poor soil, have still out-produced the Chinese in poetry, music, painting, gardening and architecture.

They've also been significantly more successful militarily than the Chinese, who have never really won a war against anyone but themselves (including losing at least twice the Japanese, though one was reversed due to US intervention).

Japanese culture is significantly higher trust than Chinese. Japanese may be incredibly racist, they may consider big, white, Gaijin me inferior, but they will be significantly less likely to cheat me than the Chinese. They have a significantly more developed tradition of craftsmanship, art and storytelling.

Now I am sure you will point out that the Japanese inherited a great deal of their culture from the Chinese, and this is correct, but the Germanic tribes inherited a great deal from the Romans too. And then built upon it. The Japanese, with fewer numbers and fewer resources, made more out of what the Soga clan introduced from the mainland than what the mainlanders ever did. I would say Germany today is more civilized than Byzantium ever was, and Japan is more civilized than China.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 08, 2015 3:08 AM  

in China you absolutely must respect your elders--but that little old lady on the bus is a stranger, so she's NOT your elder.

And that is exactly what I mean about the clannishness. True civilization involves the ability to form bonds beyond your clan, and Chinese culture does not really have that.

Blogger Thordaddy September 08, 2015 6:33 AM  

Actually, "equality" and "diversity" are essentially the same "thing" in that each describes a violently inclusive collective beholden to AwS. The desire is a "universal equality," ie., a mass of radical autonomists, that then manifests a "default elite." This idealized equal mass of radical autonomists is, by definition, die-versity. It is a mass of committed liberationists each existing under varying degrees of dispiriting, emasculation, deracination, homosexulization and bureaucratization. The last piece of this self-annihilating puzzle is Final Liberation.

Total equality + Absolute diversity = "white" self-annihilation.

Blogger VFM bot #188 September 08, 2015 6:47 AM  

@129: What's "AwS" mean? Acronym-finder shows 95 potential meanings.

Blogger James Dixon September 08, 2015 9:14 AM  

> And contrary to Vox's Time To Civilization theory, they don't seem to be progressing. They seem to be stuck at the same place they were two thousand years ago.

Absolutely true. But what you consider stagnation the Chinese may consider desirable stability.

Anonymous BGS September 08, 2015 9:26 AM  

And Australia is still one of the most peaceful places on the planet.

Australia is LA near the beaches and a whiter version of Nevada in the middle. 3rd worlders only stay in the nice areas near the beach with lots of hand out services, not where people have to be self sufficient.

from a study I read, that the second generation Asian migrants are least represented on the Centrelink dole list.

I have a gay study to show you. http://retractionwatch.com/2015/05/30/weekend-reads-gay-canvassing-study-saga-continues-elsevier-policy-sparks-concern-a-string-of-scandals/

Chinese philosophical discourse was pretty sturdy around the time of Confucius and Lao-Tzu

Then china started killing people that questioned reality. If you question reality you insult the emperor. This lead to memorizing science but nothing believed before could be questioned. Point Deer Make Horse is a loyalty test, anyone that didn't agree that a deer you brought in calling it a horse was not an excellent horse would be killed.

109. Under the tax code here you get to write off business losses for three years, after which it's considered a hobby.

If you file a form before those 3/5 years you can write off loses for 5/5 years. Singed the gay interior decorator with demo furniture in his house.

Merkel will be assassinated Hopefully she gets gang raped by moslems first so she can suffer die verse city herself.

Try being an ER doc! You have to take your share of the Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years

Everyone full time in healthcare has to sign up for 3 federal holidays a year. But women can plan their pregnancies to call off sick Thanksgiving and have Christmas & new years off. One night before Easter a co worker told me Alison was calling off sick again, I joked that every time people decorated their yards the 4 horsemen headed over to her house, someone from another section was hanging out in the area and said "who is Alison?". I replied "she is around 4' tall and wider around at the waist than I am at the shoulders",

Anonymous Jack Amok September 08, 2015 11:30 AM  

Absolutely true. But what you consider stagnation the Chinese may consider desirable stability.

True. I certainly think our own society could have done without most of the last 50 years of "progress", but what did all that stability buy China? Being parted-out by European powers and only saved from Japanese conquest by outside intervention. And of course before that being conquered by every wandering band of steppe nomads who came along.

I think a measure of civilization is being able to change without falling apart. And we in the US are becoming more and more post-civilized.

Anonymous GRY September 08, 2015 12:13 PM  

Wow since when did East Asians/Chinese again become the Yellow Peril?

Anonymous Discard September 08, 2015 1:12 PM  

134. GRY: When they came here and we started seeing how they behave. They don't care for us Big Noses.

Blogger pdwalker September 08, 2015 1:58 PM  

offtopic, just commenting on others comments.

@8 The other robot
I doubt that Asian men will appreciate you much ...

In small enough numbers, it is not a problem. But isn't that true of all countries that allow foreigners in to live?

@24 VD
The average Asian is far more racist than the average KKK Grand Dragon.

If anything, VD is vastly understating the case. Asians discriminate on the slightest shades of skin colour and are very open about it

@34 Pax Romana
Is it standard practice for Chinese people to call Americans "Ghosts?"

When they are deliberately being rude? Yes. Or rather, when they are referring to any white person.

In my experience, I have actually found Mainlanders of all stripes to be more polite in my presence. It is the Honkies and Singaporeans who are more deliberately rude, when they are being rude.

More often than not, the word is used so much that it no longer holds any "bite". Here is the actual definition, illustrated.

@51 Jack Amok
They are a low-trust society.

China is the very definition of a low trust society. There is a saying (in Chinese, of course) that ends with "...and the Chinese are the only people who hate themselves".

For many years, I was the "business partner" of a Hong Kong Chinese friend doing business in China. He explained to me that as a Chinese man, people in China naturally wouldn't trust him, but with me as his business partner, he'd get more deals because "White people were more trustworthy".

@77, @78,

Cantonese is far more flavourful, but it is much harder to learn because many spoken words have no written equivalent. And it has more tones than Mandarin which makes it a pain unless you have an ear for music.

@89 physphilmusic,

The cultural revolution was very damaging to Chinese culture. They've only recently started to recover from it in the last 20 years.

@110 Sheila,
We lived in Singapore for 2 years

I don't know when you lived there, but it is unlikely to have have been in the last 15-20 years. What you describe is certainly not the case today. The only country I find cleaner and neater is Japan. (The Japanese are immaculate). And yes, it took/takes strong authoritarian control to achieve it. Lee Kwan Yu was an excellent example of a benevolent dictator.

Anonymous The other robot September 08, 2015 11:41 PM  

And it has more tones than Mandarin

Yes. Cantonese has 7 tones (do not listen to Cantonese speakers who claim that they have nine, since they are simply counting 入聲 as three* more tones.) Mandarin has five, or perhaps six. Four because third tone before another syllable other than third stays low, while third-tone in isolation has a down and up contour. Thus five. There is also the clear tone, which could be counted as a sixth.

* And, there are cases where syllables ending in /p/,/t/ or /k/ are spoken in second tone, and high level and high falling are also distinguished, we should really count 10 or 11 if we want to play that game.

which makes it a pain unless you have an ear for music.

Not really as long as you can pronounce the level tones and the contour tones and you have someone patient who can help you. Just as important is all the little pronunciation differences compared with sounds we make in English.

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