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Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Cuck-slapping Charles Murray

Charles Murray has done some genuinely good and courageous work in the past, but with regards to immigration, he jumped several sharks this day:
Charles Murray @charlesmurray
It could be the 1850s and the Know Nothings. Same fear, same rhetoric, same fascist tendencies. And I don't use "fascist" loosely.

Mike Cernovich ‏@Cernovich
Fascism in 1850?  Did you have a stroke, Charles? 

Ken Zimmern ‏@KenZimmern
Opposing uncontrolled immigration is not fear, it's national preservation. Sensible immigration necessary.

zerg_rush ‏@zerg_rush01
why not replace Charles with a cheaper, more eager Eritrean equivalent?

SpookyGoyScaryToy ‏@WorldWarMeme
only thing you can be too conservative on is immigration apparently.Old cucks are wasting rhetoric, they've lost

Jack Hanson ‏@jhansonwrites
600k plus Americans died because of Yankee "altruism". How many millions are going 2 die this time?

Preston S. Brooks ‏@Rebel_Bill
So is this willful blindness or are you signalling that the Koch Brothers have bought you?

Enlightened Cow ‏@bendiestraw
Why is it always the people that live in HUGELY white areas are for diversity and mass immigration? His town is 99% white.

Vox Day ‏@voxday
Not to mention the worst thing about the 1850s, when the Know Nothings rounded up the Jews and killed them at Auschwitz.
Charles Murray doesn't use the term "fascist" loosely. He uses it ahistorically and incorrectly.

Labels: ,

173 Comments:

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 6:02 PM  

How is it that the author of the bell curve supports immigration?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 28, 2015 6:02 PM  

I'm sure he is trolling his masters, clever man that CM is.

If you ask me and this is not the Occam answer but he is undermining the establishment, I think he should double down. Now if we could get a real cuck like George Will to just have a meltdown over "fascists" in 'Murka that would be worth all those millions he has stolen from conservatives.

Gotta think 4GW folks, get over that fantasy of being in a conservative think tank makin them Oligarchbucks.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy October 28, 2015 6:05 PM  

zerg_rush ‏@zerg_rush01
why not replace Charles with a cheaper, more eager Eritrean equivalent?


Huh. Now that I see “zerg rush” right next to something about immigration… the West is actually being zerg-rushed.

OpenID paworldandtimes October 28, 2015 6:11 PM  

At this point either out of weariness or out of a sense of urgency, I no longer ascribe any "trolling his masters" triple-bankshot motives to establishment conservatives. I take their statement at face-value.

Charles Murray caught heat from John Derbyshire, Steve Sailer and the late Lawrence Auster some ten years ago as a participant on NRO's The Corner for saying that he'd rather live in a vibrant Guatemalan neighborhood than a boring white-bread one. It was almost immediately pointed out to Murray that his exurban Maryland town is something like 99.6% White.

-PA

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 6:13 PM  

Those replies are epic.

Bravo !!!

What a dumb cuck.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 28, 2015 6:14 PM  

#4 then the man is a lunatic nutter first class. But I will mention the establishment is in auto delegitimization mode and I am not sure even long winded conservative intellectuals can save it anymore.

Anonymous KBT October 28, 2015 6:19 PM  

I got the most enjoyment from someone named "zerg rush" chiming in on immigration. :D

Anonymous Starets October 28, 2015 6:20 PM  

@5
"What a dumb cuck."

Unfortunately, in Murray's case, it is 'What a brilliant cuck!'

Clever fools can be very dangerous.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 6:24 PM  

Context:

@charlesmurray Oct 26
When are the Trumpers going to figure out that he's a RINO? Actually, on a lot of issues, a statist.

@charlesmurray Oct 27
Everybody thinks my opposition to Trump is based on immigration policy. Actually based on my belief he is a total sleaze unfit to be Pres.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 6:25 PM  

Question:

Is anyone opposed to Trump a cuck?

OpenID paworldandtimes October 28, 2015 6:28 PM  

"Is anyone opposed to Trump a cuck?"

If they think that he has no intention of living up to the hype, then no. If they feel threatened by his challenge to the party, then yes.

-PA

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 6:32 PM  

If they think that he has no intention of living up to the hype, then no. If they feel threatened by his challenge to the party, then yes.

Murray appears to be in the first category, not the second.

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 6:42 PM  

Not to mention the worst thing about the 1850s, when the Know Nothings rounded up the Jews and killed them at Auschwitz.

I'm guessing that would be all 6 million.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 28, 2015 6:43 PM  

I see that he still isn't living in a "vibrant guatemalan" neighborhood. Whyever not Chuck?

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 6:44 PM  

And someone says what the GOPe is thinking needs to be done about Trump

Blogger Noah B #120 October 28, 2015 6:46 PM  

This is hilarious. I never read NRO so I had no idea they had a blog called "The Corner."

#cuckservative

Anonymous Nathanael October 28, 2015 6:50 PM  

The Know Nothings were right.

Blogger Groot October 28, 2015 6:56 PM  

@4. paworldandtimes: "his exurban Maryland town is something like 99.6% White"

The utopian diverse village he knows is academia, where he's worked all his life. Students from all over the world chosen for their high IQ give the professoriate adulation. It's not cognitive dissonance, it's living in a bubble. He's trying to be non-elitist, but it's a foreign tongue.

Blogger mistaben October 28, 2015 6:57 PM  

NOBODY pulls Cucky out of The Corner!

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 6:59 PM  

If Murray is a cuck, Derb is a cuck.

MURRAY AND DERBYSHIRE TURN AGAINST WHITE AMERICA

(Many comments have been added to this entry since it was originally posted. Also the discussion has been continued in a separate entry.)

John Derbyshire asked Charles Murray for his views on immigration. Murray wrote him back a point-by-point e-mail, which Derbyshire posted at The Corner. Among Murray’s points was:

3. I am not impressed by worries about losing America’s Anglo-European identity. Some of the most American people I know are immigrants from other parts of the world. And I’d a hell of a lot rather live in a Little Vietnam or a Little Guatemala neighborhood, even if I couldn’t read the store signs, than in many white-bread communities I can think of.

Derbyshire commented:

Pure Murray—clear, succinct, data-based, no punches pulled. And not a thing I can see to disagree with [emphasis added].

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 7:00 PM  

Charles Murray caught heat from John Derbyshire, Steve Sailer and the late Lawrence Auster some ten years ago

Correction: Murray and Derb caught heat from Auster.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 28, 2015 7:03 PM  

Derb belongs back in Merry Ol' England, not the US. Deporting all immigrants means deporting all immigrants. He can take his Asian wife with him.

Anonymous keener October 28, 2015 7:04 PM  

Murray can read. He can look things up on the net. He can see the streams of migrants overwhelming Europe on television station. He ain't stupid. I just saw on Breitbart yet another beating and rape of a woman by an illegal immigrant. From Honduras. He had been arrested for violent crimes twice, came back over the border twice, the third time he kidnapped a woman and her two year old, beat her and raped her repeatedly. Near Kansas City. I have elderly relatives living there. And young goodlooking girl relatives there. Murray is a son-of-a-bitch. He is now privileged and contemptuous of the 'stupid' common people. I don't care if he wrote The Bell Curve or the Bible, he's a piece of shit now. As far as I am concerned he's the Enemy.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 October 28, 2015 7:09 PM  

the word fasces gives fascist. Mussolini was right, it simply means corporatism. If you are a nation you are a fascist.
It is a bundle of smaller rods tightly bound to make an axe handle.

The logic is this. If you are any corporation/ nation you have to have something like articles of association/ rules/ a constitution. The only question in all immigration talk is simply whether you are going to be true to those articles or betray them.

Margaret Thatcher apparently said, we manage a trust between past generations and unborn.

be "another nation" if you want to. It currently means betrayal.

Anonymous REG October 28, 2015 7:12 PM  

Well, recently someone on this blog stated that the word Fascist comes from the Greek meaning 'community.' I know I'm probably a little off kilter; but, since Lincoln stated that the idea of the Civil War was to restore the Union (community?) then the Republican should know what he's talking about when he says 'Fascist'. Only, it's the three fingers pointing back, not the forefinger.that counts.

Thanks for restoring 'name and url' nothing else seems to work for me.

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 7:14 PM  

I don't care if he wrote The Bell Curve or the Bible, he's a piece of shit now. As far as I am concerned he's the Enemy.

The problem is that too many really smart people have no empathy for the common man.

Then when the shit hits the fan they wonder why the common man is not interested in saving them.

Blogger Noah B #120 October 28, 2015 7:15 PM  

"As far as I am concerned he's the Enemy. "

Before we can effectively deal with the invaders, we have to deal with those who are stopping us from fighting back.

Blogger Phillip George October 28, 2015 7:19 PM  

the word fasces gives fascist. Mussolini was right, it simply means corporatism. If you are a nation you are a fascist.
It is a bundle of smaller rods tightly bound to make an axe handle.

The logic is this. If you are any corporation/ nation you have to have something like articles of association/ rules/ a constitution. The only question in all immigration talk is simply whether you are going to be true to those articles or betray them.

Margaret Thatcher apparently said, we manage a trust between past generations and unborn.

be "another nation" if you want to. It currently means betrayal.

..........the notion of civilisation as a trust between the living, the dead and the yet-to-be-born: this was the heritage she'd been elected to preserve and strengthen.

unquote

OpenID paworldandtimes October 28, 2015 7:30 PM  

"Correction: Murray and Derb caught heat from Auster."

Thanks for digging up the link. I remembered that wrong.

In Derb's defense, he's come a long way on immigration.

-PA

Blogger Noah B #120 October 28, 2015 7:36 PM  

I can see the idealistic appeal of open borders and free trade. But witnessing the consequences of the West's move toward these over the past 25 years should, by now, be enough to convince anyone that it was a stupid idea.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 28, 2015 8:02 PM  

The man wrote Human Achievement and never mentioned racial IQ. Clever sillies can't thinking sans data.

This is the reverse grandpa.


Humor explanation: normally grandpas say politically incorrect things. But tides go in as well as out...

Anonymous Daniel H October 28, 2015 8:10 PM  

I think it noteworthy: after Murray divorced his Thai wife he married a white woman from solid midwestern stock, apparently of his own hometown. My suggestion: after Murray shook his bout of yellow fever he determined that he didn't much like asian women that much, despite their legendary sexual charms. Oh, they are quite good for a traipse through a brothel (which is what the entirety of Thailand essentially is for white men), but not something to build a legacy on.

Anonymous Homesteader October 28, 2015 8:14 PM  

Fasces, from which "fascist" is derived, means a bundle of wood. This is synonymous with faggot, also meaning a bundle of wood.

Why does Charles Murray hate gays?

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 8:15 PM  

@16. Before The Corner there was GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out). I used to post comments at GIGO all the time, for a long time, until I posted sedition against these uSA in defending the South.

OpenID karsten0 October 28, 2015 8:17 PM  

"If Murray is a cuck, Derb is a cuck."

Asked and answered. Murry is a cuck and Derb is a cuck. Always has been.

Blogger traderdoc October 28, 2015 8:24 PM  

What good does immigration do for the average person?

If you are a Democrat politician, it is about votes.

If a Republican businessman, you get cheaper labor.

If an immigrant, it's obvious.

But for anyone else not looking for praise for being so wonderfully tolerant, there is simply no advantage.

So here we are, immigrants being forced on us for the benefit of very few. 98% - the rest of us -get no benefit.

The rest of us will have huge problems with which to deal, high costs, crime, and NO BENEFITS at all.

Blogger Eric October 28, 2015 8:34 PM  

If they think that he has no intention of living up to the hype, then no. If they feel threatened by his challenge to the party, then yes.

Trump donated to Hillary's campaign in 2008. He's been on both sides of nearly every divisive issue since the start of the campaign. He couldn't live up to the hype if he wanted to. And he doesn't want to. He just wants to be president.

If I thought he would actually live up to his immigration rhetoric I'd vote for him. But I don't.

Blogger Eric October 28, 2015 8:36 PM  

Asked and answered. Murry is a cuck and Derb is a cuck. Always has been.

If someone like Derb is a "cuck" then the non-cuck share of the electorate is so tiny it's irrelevant.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 8:45 PM  

What good does immigration do for the average person?

I've asked some average people that. Basically, they think they get cheaper prices on things. They think their house was cheaper because the contractor hired a Mexican crew to put in the drywall. They think they get their lawn mowed cheaper because of immigrants -- even if they don't hire immigrants themselves, they figure the going rate would be higher if immigrants weren't competing for the work.

Generally, they fear that prices on most things would be higher if there were fewer immigrants, so they'd be able to afford less.

Anonymous BGS October 28, 2015 8:47 PM  

Josh Question:Is anyone opposed to Trump a cuck?

This sounds like a question you could answer for us yourself.

He couldn't live up to the hype if he wanted to. And he doesn't want to. He just wants to be president.

He might have jumped in front of a parade but there is enough inertia too keep it going without him

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 8:48 PM  

Gamergate still has it

BTW, Trump is the Manchurian Candidate!

Anonymous BGS October 28, 2015 8:50 PM  

More refusegee Sweden burning news http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=68196&icid=4&d_str=

http://madworldnews.com/muslim-refugee-rapes-toddler/

"The officials on the Swedish Migration Board attempted to cover up the rape of the toddler in order to protect a 40-year-old Muslim illegal, Speisa reports. Police confirmed that the leftists moved the rapist to another building in an attempt to thwart his arrest."

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 8:51 PM  

Derb isn't a cuckservative. No cuckservative would have written the article on race that got him booted from NRO -- a cuck would have flogged himself for even thinking of it -- and you'll notice he didn't apologize for it.

But I'm sure he'd freely admit to some cuckservative beliefs in the past. Heck, he's admitted to being a liberal in the past, such as when he believed that blacks would soon rise to even levels of achievement with whites once they got civil rights and a bit of a boost to get them started. He observed reality and learned from it. One thing I like about Derb is that he's not too proud to say, "Man, was I wrong back then."

Anonymous 334 October 28, 2015 8:55 PM  

If someone like Derb is a "cuck" then the non-cuck share of the electorate is so tiny it's irrelevant.

I don't think "cuck" applies as much to the electorate as it applies to the enablers: the "conservative" establishment and much of the so-called "right wing" commentators, writers and talking heads. Joe Average Republican voter seems to be more in line with what Trump has been saying about immigration than the rubbish the Republican braintrust is spouting.

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 9:00 PM  

Police confirmed that the leftists moved the rapist to another building in an attempt to thwart his arrest.

Do these people really think that refugees have the right to rape toddlers or do they think that he won't do it again after doing it once?

A bullet is too good for them. Crucifixion is called for.

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 9:04 PM  

Police confirmed that the leftists moved the rapist to another building in an attempt to thwart his arrest.

Do these people really think that refugees have the right to rape toddlers or do they think that he won't do it again after doing it once?

A bullet is too good for them. Crucifixion is called for.

Blogger traderdoc October 28, 2015 9:10 PM  

Generally, they fear that prices on most things would be higher if there were fewer immigrants, so they'd be able to afford less.

Lets see. Car payments cheaper? Utility costs cheaper? Clothing, most foods, liquor, guns, ammo, medical costs, gasoline cheaper? No, No, No.

I'll give you the lawn care. But the impact on friends wallets would be very positive if all things were considered. Immigrants have been shown (on this blog) to cost the economy more than they generate.

Your economics is the same BS we get from government reports to justify immigration. Your friends as advisors are just purely misled. So are you.

Anonymous Dave October 28, 2015 9:20 PM  

@BGS "The officials on the Swedish Migration Board attempted to cover up the rape of the toddler in order to protect a 40-year-old Muslim.

If ever vigilante justice was called for these officials couldn't be more deserving. I would start with a sword.

OpenID tz October 28, 2015 9:27 PM  

Remember, "Know Nothings"

Blogger ncartist October 28, 2015 9:28 PM  

Moslem rapes woman on airliner as she sleeps
A woman flying from Dubai to New York City was molested by a male passenger who rubbed lotion on her body as she slept, according to federal investigators who say the suspect told flight attendants that the victim “enjoyed it because she did not resist.”

Blogger ncartist October 28, 2015 9:36 PM  

This is for all you Carsonites.
Quote: "Ben Carson in Iowa only has 2% of the Iowa voters, 4% GOP. You are being lied to, so that you can be destroyed. Carson is a tool like Obama was a left wing tool. What Carson is being used for in the Jebcavers is to "show a plunge" for Donald Trump, so Mr. Trump is pressured to get out of the race, and then Jeb Bush will scrape up the remnants, as Ben Carson is at 2% in Iowa and has no finances to win a nomination."

BTW: Trump is a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive. That is one hundred year jump back politically. All the other GOP candidates are versions of Obama. What ever the hell you want does not exist.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 9:51 PM  

Traderdoc, you misunderstood me. Someone asked what average people think they get from immigration. I told you what average people have told me they think they get. I didn't say they're right. They're not; but it's what they think.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 9:52 PM  

Trump is a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive

And that's supposed to be a good thing?

Anonymous Will Best October 28, 2015 9:54 PM  

From Honduras. He had been arrested for violent crimes twice, came back over the border twice, the third time he kidnapped a woman and her two year old

I don't even understand this. Anybody who is deported the first time should have their DNA taken. If upon being caught a DNA comes up in the database that person should be summarily executed owing to having already been provided due process and now conclusively proving they are an invader.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 10:02 PM  

@50 "That is one hundred year jump back politically."

In our time, that would be an improvement.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 10:36 PM  

Charles Murray sounds like Trump on immigration:

4. When it comes to the nitty-gritty, I would get rid of reuniting-families provisions, get rid of the you’re-a-citizen-if-you’re-born-here rule, and make immigrants ineligible for all benefits and social services except public education for their children. Everybody who immigrates has to be on a citizenship track (no guest workers). And I would endorse a literacy requirement. Having those measures in place, my other criteria for getting permission to immigrate would be fairly loose. Just having to get through the bureaucratic hoops will go a long way toward reinstalling a useful self-selection process. But, to go back to basics: None of this works unless illegal immigration is effectively ended.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 10:40 PM  

Did Trump drop out and throw his support to Jeb! tonight? October's getting kind of long in the tooth here.

Blogger Noah B #120 October 28, 2015 10:42 PM  

@38 Generally, they fear that prices on most things would be higher if there were fewer immigrants, so they'd be able to afford less."

A business that hires an illegal might come out ahead of its competitors, but that's only because that business is able to shift much of its labor costs onto taxpayers, who are paying for food, health care, schools, and who knows what else. Illegals have larger families than natives, and that means they use more public services.

For every $5 you save from the cheaper labor of illegal workers, it probably costs you another $20 in taxes and inflation.

Anonymous Viidad October 28, 2015 10:42 PM  

@Josh

No, I don't read it as him saying it's a good thing. Rather, that there's no good alternative. "What ever the hell you want does not exist."

Blogger TheRedSkull October 28, 2015 10:50 PM  

As we grumble, gripe and munch
on geriatric buttock lunch,
there is a point I'd like to air:
These gentlemen almost spoke fair!

Derby and Murray earned their fate;
they joined with PC far too late,
but bigger problem's on our plate.

With transition r to K
a dangerous shift is underway
and Fascist currents come to play.

Socialism's always bust,
And so externalize it must -
That's when nukes will make us dust.

Trump's a Caesar or Augustus;
Turn to him for hope and justice!
Still we can't mistake the man
For our first George Washington.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 10:54 PM  

@Viidad
No, I don't read it as him saying it's a good thing. Rather, that there's no good alternative. "What ever the hell you want does not exist."

...and I'm pretty sure we've been saying that exact same thing for *months*, but it always goes ignored.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 28, 2015 11:00 PM  

"Ron Paul save us!" Shout in hope...
Machiavelli answers: Nope.
Aurelius could not turn the tide
Like Canute 'fore the Roman slide

Two shots heard round the world, they'll say;
To Minuteman will mutants pray.

Blogger overcaffeinated October 28, 2015 11:16 PM  

My ancestors came over from Lithuania not speaking a word of English. Within one generation, they built churches, businesses and their own PRIVATE schools. That was with zero government help and likely some opposition from WASP elements though I'm not going to complain about that.

And that's Lithuania, basically the Guatemala of Europe :) (If Poland is the Mexico of Europe, I guess we are Guatemala...).

There are real differences between European immigrants and Hispanic immigrants. How many Hispanic immigrants really build their own institutions? At best, they marginally support the Catholic institutions that previous Irish, Italian, Polish and Lithuanian immigrants built before them. At worst ...

To say "someone made similar arguments 150 years ago and were wrong then, therefore such arguments must also be wrong now" is just silly. Name one church, school, or charitable institution that Hispanics have created in the US. There are none, except MAYBE a few that are limited to supporting further Hispanic immigration and leeching.

Here's an example of what Catholic Czech immigrants brought to the US: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Our_Lady_of_Sorrows_080202.jpg

a Polish church: http://s3.amazonaws.com/architecture-org/files/modules/st-mary-perpetual-help-eric-allix-rogers-01.jpg

What do Hispanics have to show for themselves other than complaining, and a lot of menial labor that's going to be done by robots sooner or later?

I have cousins who are Air Force F16 flight instructors and published medical doctors. There is a difference between Europeans and Hispanics. Mainly having to do with IQ and how far back their families were Christianized.

Anonymous John Carter October 28, 2015 11:29 PM  

Derb has done some real growing up on immigration. Although it should be noted that, while he deserves mad props for not rolling over- he was a cucky NRO writer who got busted for very mildly crossing the SJW line. So, you know...

Still- I think we should leave some room to grow- man has gotten better on it.

Trump-

Look, the Perfect Conservative Candidate doesn't exist. And if he did, he'd have no charisma. Carson would've been a great 90's candidate- with the gentle black doctor thing going on. Cruz, much the same.

We're past that. Taxes? Nice- nothing on immigration. Gay marriage- should be stopped. Not a patch on immigration. We need to control our borders first and foremost- which is why the anti-American leftists have made it unspeakable.

Trump fights. I don't care if he hits every button on the "All the best parts of Reagan, Eisenhower, Washington, and Mises" checklist.

Take someone who recognizes the primary, defining issue of the next hundred years- and will fight for it. I genuinely am past giving a blessed damn about what the sales tax on the Titanic is.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 11:36 PM  

We're past that. Taxes? Nice- nothing on immigration. Gay marriage- should be stopped. Not a patch on immigration. We need to control our borders first and foremost- which is why the anti-American leftists have made it unspeakable.

Santorum is the highest rated candidate by NumbersUSA

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 28, 2015 11:46 PM  

Santorum is the highest rated candidate by NumbersUSA

And the man's obsession with social conservative issues would make him a guaranteed loser.  The difference between Santorum and Trump on immigration is that Trump would have a chance to put his program into action.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 11:48 PM  

This is for all you Carsonites.
Quote: "Ben Carson in Iowa only has 2% of the Iowa voters, 4% GOP. You are being lied to, so that you can be destroyed. Carson is a tool like Obama was a left wing tool. What Carson is being used for in the Jebcavers is to "show a plunge" for Donald Trump, so Mr. Trump is pressured to get out of the race, and then Jeb Bush will scrape up the remnants, as Ben Carson is at 2% in Iowa and has no finances to win a nomination."


That guy offers no evidence to support his claims.

Blogger Josh October 28, 2015 11:49 PM  

The difference between Santorum and Trump on immigration is that Trump would have a chance to put his program into action.

How so?

Blogger StrongCoffee61 October 28, 2015 11:59 PM  

I recall Charles Murray admitting on CNN's Crossfire that he had never taken an I.Q. test.

Anybody who confuses a raw green sparsely populated America and the frontier of 1850 with a nation of 320 million in which the great majority of invaders are black and brown with poor intelligence is a person who should have been afraid to take an I.Q. test.

Anonymous smedley butler October 29, 2015 12:07 AM  

Charles Murray is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Kochtopus. Right now the Kochs are in a state of despair over the poor performance of their candidates against the Trumpenkreig. So they have sent Murray on a mission to try to weaken Trump.

Anonymous Viidad October 29, 2015 12:34 AM  

Santorum is a big gov't "compassionate" conservative who never met a war he didn't like.

Are you just stirring the pot today, Josh?

What do YOU want?

Blogger Wyrd October 29, 2015 12:46 AM  

What do YOU want?

The position of slave standing beside Trump in his triumphal chariot reminding him he's not a god, natch.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 12:54 AM  

Santorum is a big gov't "compassionate" conservative who never met a war he didn't like.

Are you just stirring the pot today, Josh?

What do YOU want?


My point is that Santorum is better than Trump on immigration according to numbers usa.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:02 AM  

My point is that Santorum is better than Trump on immigration according to numbers usa.

So am I. And then?

OpenID Jack Amok October 29, 2015 1:05 AM  

A bullet is too good for them. Crucifixion is called for.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Bullets will do the job just fine.

Is anyone opposed to Trump a cuck?

Don't be willfully ingorant Josh. It's stupidly supporting immigration that makes him a cuck. Trump's got nothing to do with it, other than forcing people to talk about immigration.

Blogger bob k. mando October 29, 2015 1:06 AM  

24. REG October 28, 2015 7:12 PM
Well, recently someone on this blog stated that the word Fascist comes from the Greek meaning 'community.'



not that i've ever heard.

'Fascism' is supposed to come from the Latin 'fascis' which means "a bundle" and comes from the political principal of combining the entire society, from the proletariat to the aristocracy together in order to strengthen it.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

i suppose the Latin word could have a Greek root, but i've never heard of it.

so far as Trump goes, as Vox has said, he's one of the few who even sounds like he's serious about backing this shit up.

is he actually? does he really mean it? who knows?

we know the Repug establishment intends to implement ALL of it. Boehner's two year budget deal being the most recent example in a track record going back decades.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:08 AM  

Josh, you're sperging. Just a little. Any idiot knows Santorum doesn't stand a chance. The discussion on the table is about strategy, not about virtue. That's where we are now.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:13 AM  

Do I think Trump is the solution? No. What I do think is that Trump represents at least a slight chance of not following in the painfully disappointing footsteps of every single other damn Republican we've had for decades. Now, he may be worse. That's possible. Even then, he has still done this nation a service *simply by running this campaign* because he's the only one who has gotten rank-and-file Americans to stop apologizing for their concerns. Sure, on paper some of these other guys have great opinions and plans, but I suspect that if it weren't for Trump, no one would be seriously talking about immigration right now, much less uniting the public on it.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:19 AM  

Don't be willfully ingorant Josh. It's stupidly supporting immigration that makes him a cuck. Trump's got nothing to do with it, other than forcing people to talk about immigration.

If you look at the other tweets I posted, Murray said his opposition to Trump has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with personality.

And if you look at the NRO piece where Murray shares his views on immigration policy, they look very similar to Trump's plan.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 29, 2015 1:21 AM  

"Charles Murray doesn't use the term "fascist" loosely. He uses it ahistorically and incorrectly"

Saved me having to say it.

But worse, he uses it stupidly. He uses it in the same stupid manner as the self-styled liberals, as a pejorative not a descriptive. As a pejorative whose only meaning is:

"Bad person. DISQUALIFY!"

Which makes him an idiot, and an arsehole, and a traitor.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:22 AM  

Josh, you're sperging. Just a little. Any idiot knows Santorum doesn't stand a chance. The discussion on the table is about strategy, not about virtue. That's where we are now.

I just get tired of the "Trump is the only candidate with a sane immigration policy!" line.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:22 AM  

Boring administrative note:

I just released about a dozen legit comments from spam. This happens a lot with the Name/URL setting, which sucks for both you and me.

If your comments are disappearing, know that it's almost certainly not being done by the mods. Blogger is just ... troubled.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 29, 2015 1:23 AM  

@68 How so?

Because you have to get elected first.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:24 AM  

Even then, he has still done this nation a service *simply by running this campaign* because he's the only one who has gotten rank-and-file Americans to stop apologizing for their concerns.

Good point.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:24 AM  

Yup, the reason Vox is calling him a cuck is due to the clumsy tone-policing. Tone-policing supersedes questions about whether your opinions on paper line up vis-a-vis the other other guy. The real war is one of rhetoric, unfortunately for those of us who prefer a reason-based approach.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:27 AM  

I just get tired of the "Trump is the only candidate with a sane immigration policy!" line.

That's because you've misunderstood the line. It's something closer to "Trump is the only candidate pitching a sane immigration policy who has the further qualities of probably-not-going-to-punk-out and has-an-actual-chance-at-changing-things."

What I think you are actually taking umbrage at is the latter two assertions. If so, we should be talking about them.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:28 AM  

Josh, I understand the frustration. I don't like Trump. I've lived in Florida most of my life so I've had to hear the stories of his antics in the West Palm Beach social set. I hate hate hate that he's the guy who finally had the cojones to stand up to the media and the SJWs on this issue. My attitude is similar to that of Nassim Taleb: to hear Trump is to marvel at how a free man speaks. I only wish there were a more intelligent alternative. Also, Taleb said "A humble Trump is of no use. Without his attitude problem, Donald Trump is nothing. "

Yup. This is where we are.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:28 AM  

Yup, the reason Vox is calling him a cuck is due to the clumsy tone-policing. Tone-policing supersedes questions about whether your opinions on paper line up vis-a-vis the other other guy.

I'll be honest, at this point I have absolutely no idea what cuck is supposed to mean anymore.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:31 AM  

What I think you are actually taking umbrage at is the latter two assertions. If so, we should be talking about them.

Very well. I have no reason to believe Trump won't punk out and no reason to believe he has an actual chance of changing things.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:31 AM  

But Trump has already changed things. We have to face that fact.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:33 AM  

Sometimes, speech amounts to action. We're seeing that here.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 29, 2015 1:34 AM  

Josh,

Santorum's policy positions are irrelevant because Santorum is first and foremost a part of the Red vs Blue entertainment complex. He's a Republican hope and change salesman. Like Dubya had the ideal campaign, reduced budgets, reduced powers, humble foreign policy, no nation building. So what?

If you believe a single word Santorum says you're ineligible to comment on Trump.

It is not that anyone believes Trump. It is that Trump's "extreme" views have opened the Overton window, and made space for the most real conversation about immigration since 1924.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 29, 2015 1:37 AM  

And you dont shoot your extremists.

You shoot the other guy's ...

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 1:37 AM  

The feeling I get about older gentlemanly guys like Murray is that they simply don't grasp the proportion of the problem. The danger of immigration is entirely a matter of proportion. But people are very bad at applying proportionate thinking to the fate of their nation or culture. So when immigration is at 1% of the population and one defends the fair treatment of foreign immigrants and the vibrancy of the cultural interchange... fine. This absolutely has merit. No culture benefits by being utterly insular. But when immigration slips into the double digits and begins to affect everything about the culture, the livelihood of its citizens, and even the future of the nation as a whole, the old platitudes and bromides just do not apply. And to keep using them only encourages the other side.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:39 AM  

no reason to believe he has an actual chance of changing things.

I would agree with this, but with the modifier "unless he flouts or changes the system." And that's what I would cheer on. I prefer an owner to a renter.

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 1:42 AM  

"Even then, he has still done this nation a service *simply by running this campaign* because he's the only one who has gotten rank-and-file Americans to stop apologizing for their concerns."

And shaken the populace's sense of the establishment's invincibility.

That said, I'm all in on Cruz.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:44 AM  

That said, I'm all in on Cruz.

Cruz had a really good debate tonight.

I think the primary will eventually become a Rubio Cruz race.

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 1:45 AM  

"The feeling I get about older gentlemanly guys like Murray is that they simply don't grasp the proportion of the problem."

Yeah. If your gift is for dialectic, that's the direction to aim your cannons. Drown them in facts. Keep them on the defensive.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:45 AM  

Goldman has Cruz by the Sach.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:46 AM  

older gentlemanly guys like Murray

My grandfather's cuck was too tall for the shelf,
So he sat many years on the floor.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:46 AM  

Goldman has Cruz by the Sach.

Literally in bed with the banksters

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 1:51 AM  

The feeling I get about older gentlemanly guys like Murray is that they simply don't grasp the proportion of the problem.

Actually, I think he does grasp it.

From the link up thread:

2. Massive immigration of legal low-skill workers is problematic for many reasons, and some of them have to do with human capital. Yes, mean IQ does vary by ethnic group, and IQ tends to be below average in low-job-skill populations. One can grant all the ways in which smart people coming from Latin American or African countries are low-job-skill because they have been deprived of opportunity, and still be forced to accept the statistical tendencies. The empirical record established by scholars such as George Borjas at Harvard cannot be wished away.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 1:56 AM  

Yes, mean IQ does vary by ethnic group, and IQ tends to be below average in low-job-skill populations.

He sounds like Cary Grant working up the will to screw an actual woman, instead of just relenting and whistling for Rock Hudson.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 2:00 AM  

To be more serious, this is the dishonest, just-the-tip-of-my-premise, question-begging part:

One can grant all the ways in which smart people coming from Latin American or African countries are low-job-skill because they have been deprived of opportunity, and still be forced to accept the statistical tendencies..

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 2:02 AM  

I get angrier every time I read that lying bullshit claptrap sentence from Murray. Devilry, is what we have here.

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 2:04 AM  

He grasps it as an intellectual abstraction, yes. It doesn't seem to hit home with him, though. Irony.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 2:05 AM  

He's walking around the nation seven times, and when he blows the Trumpet, the walls will come tumbling up.

Before that he was busy securing red rope real estate and bedding hotties therein.

Humor explanation: joke likens Trump and immigration to story of Jericho and Rahab.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 2:05 AM  

Look at this. If you saw this statement on Tumblr, which side would you assume the author was on?

Massive immigration of legal low-skill workers is problematic for many reasons, and some of them have to do with human capital.

OpenID Jack Amok October 29, 2015 2:05 AM  

If you look at the other tweets I posted, Murray said his opposition to Trump has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with personality.

And if you look at the NRO piece where Murray shares his views on immigration policy, they look very similar to Trump's plan.


Then Murray's a fucking idiot if he lets personality get in the way of a candidate who's policies he actually supports. Especially when every other candidate treats immigrants about the same way the Seattle Seahawk's offensive line treats pass rushers this year.

Blogger automatthew October 29, 2015 2:07 AM  

rycamor, I now think Murray is a conscious and willing servant of the enemy. That one quotation is proof enough.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 2:11 AM  

http://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2015/10/28/trump-walks-backs-low-immigration-high-wage-plan/

Trump’s turnabout on the foreign-worker issue is also seen in his pending book, Crippled America: How to Make America Great Again.

“I don’t want to stop legal immigration to this country. In fact, I would like to reform and increase immigration in some important ways,” he writes on page 29, according to a Politico article.

OpenID Jack Amok October 29, 2015 2:18 AM  

I'll be honest, at this point I have absolutely no idea what cuck is supposed to mean anymore.

It means someone who's so afraid of a confrontation that he'd stand by and let the people he's supposed to represent - the people who trusted him - get fucked over if that's what it takes to avoid the confrontation.

A guy who would literally rather let immigrants rape children in his home town than do something that might get him called a racist.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 2:19 AM  

Then Murray's a fucking idiot if he lets personality get in the way of a candidate who's policies he actually supports.

1) immigration might not be his number one issue
2) he might think trump is lying about his immigration plan

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 2:22 AM  

It means someone who's so afraid of a confrontation that he'd stand by and let the people he's supposed to represent - the people who trusted him - get fucked over if that's what it takes to avoid the confrontation.

A guy who would literally rather let immigrants rape children in his home town than do something that might get him called a racist.


I'm not sure that any of that describes Murray or Derb. I don't think either are afraid of being called racist. Murray's been a racist in the eyes of the media establishment for twenty years.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 29, 2015 2:28 AM  

" immigration might not be his number one issue"

Then he's irrelevant, as well as an idiot arsehole traitor.

Why are you still talking about him?

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 2:30 AM  

Why are you still talking about him?

Because that's the subject of the post?

Blogger rycamor October 29, 2015 2:33 AM  

LOL... riposte in Josh's favor.

OpenID Jack Amok October 29, 2015 2:34 AM  

I'm not sure that any of that describes Murray or Derb.

If not, then Murray's making common cause with the cucks.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 2:45 AM  

Correct me if I have missed something:

Derb and Murray tone policed, possibly as part of a Koch network effort.
The Fascism charge is somewhat correct, in that fascism is K flavored socialism, and America is shifting K due to depression and crime causing amygdala stimulus.
However attacking Trump and anti-immigration is retarded, because immigration simply makes everything get worse faster.
Socialism will always fail and failure will always produce K flavor. Given a choice between fascism and communism, pick the former.
Whatever Trump's actual positions, he is actually building anti-immigration consensus, which no other prominent figure has safely done.
AFAICT, the scope of the details being argued doesn't change anything above.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 29, 2015 5:40 AM  

Precisely. Hence my question to Josh and his disingenuous reply:

"because that's the subject of the post?"

No, that's not why. You're trying to make a point that is irrelevant at best. At this stage of the thread you're simply shucking and jiving to avoid admitting you were wrong.

Murray's irrelevance was not the tooic of the thread, rather his treachery. But at least you now concede his irrelevance. And THAT is the ultimate meaning of being a cuck; you make yourself irrelevant.

Blogger VD October 29, 2015 5:44 AM  

Don't be willfully ingorant Josh. It's stupidly supporting immigration that makes him a cuck. Trump's got nothing to do with it, other than forcing people to talk about immigration.

Precisely. This post was focused on Murray's ahistorical anti-nationalist, pro-immigration lies about Fascism. So naturally Josh went on shrieking TRUUUUUMP!

I'll be honest, at this point I have absolutely no idea what cuck is supposed to mean anymore.

Perhaps if you stopped sperging-out every time anyone mentioned something even tangentially related to Trump, you'd be able to spare the brain cells to do so. If you're trying to reach the point that everyone just skims past your comments in a state of blissful Zen, you're succeeding.

Because that's the subject of the post?

No, it's not. Sweet Donald J. Trump, do you not see how obsessed you are? The first THREE mentions of Trump were you. The fourth mention was someone quoting you. You just want to whine and cry about Trump. The subject of the post was a nominal conservative intellectual's dishonest appeal to FASCISM. You derailed the entire discussion by unnecessarily "putting it in context" so you could talk about Trump again. Stop being such a fucking bore on the subject. Do you seriously think we don't understand that you don't like or trust Trump?

Wheeler is not the role model you should be following here.

Blogger VD October 29, 2015 5:45 AM  

The Fascism charge is somewhat correct, in that fascism is K flavored socialism, and America is shifting K due to depression and crime causing amygdala stimulus.

No, it is not at all correct. It is completely and utterly false.

Anonymous Kool Moe Dee October 29, 2015 6:02 AM  

Everyone chill on Josh. You should be glad that Ed Driscoll, I mean Josh, is reading Voxday. Eventually, he'll get it and stop spamming Instapundit with Trump-phobia.

Anonymous Infinite facepalm October 29, 2015 6:34 AM  

@ Josh: If someone is opposed to Trump but can not see there is no downside to his presidency they may not be a cuck but they are idiots

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 7:07 AM  

The funny thing here is occasional mass deportation (operation wetback) and total shut down of all immigration is actually the historical norm in the US.

This is what we've done since the late 1800s.

OpenID karsten0 October 29, 2015 8:11 AM  

"I'll be honest, at this point I have absolutely no idea what cuck is supposed to mean anymore."

A cuckservative favors what's good for the Jews and opposes what the Jews are against, even (nay, especially) against the interests of his own race. It's that simply. Though perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be, "favors what the Jews want" and vice versa, rather than "good for," since Mr. Day has pointed out that sometimes, the Jews' overarching desire to take down the white race leads them to support policies that hurt them as well, per the scorpion-and-toad mode.

Hence Derb qualifies. Look back at his reviews of Dr. Kevin MacDonald's work. Cuck through and through. He may be good on the black issue, but even some neocons and cucks say some sensible things sometimes (they need to, or else no one would listen to them at all). But their position vis-a-vis Jewish interests is the unfailing test.

"Everyone chill on Josh. You should be glad that Ed Driscoll, I mean Josh, is reading Voxday."

Long ago I pegged this poster (who monitors and participates in this site as assiduously as if it were his job) as paid Hasbra. That remains my belief.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 8:35 AM  

"A cuckservative favors what's good for the Jews and opposes what the Jews are against, even (nay, especially) against the interests of his own race."

/facepalm

Blogger Lulabelle October 29, 2015 8:37 AM  

Aww, come on, Nate. We've gotta have at least one "It's the joooos!!!!" post.

Blogger Guitar Man October 29, 2015 8:49 AM  

Thank you for this thread, everyone.

Blogger ncartist October 29, 2015 8:53 AM  

Here, Josh, real polls, not Mockingbird/Cartel BS:

TRUMP 65.29% (86,210 votes)

CRUZ 15.77% (20,828 votes)

RUBIO 7.35% (9,705 votes)

PAUL 3.77% (4,973 votes)

CARSON 3.09% (4,085 votes)

FIORINA 1.75% (2,305 votes)

CHRISTIE 1.11% (1,470 votes)

KASICH 0.95% (1,252 votes)

HUCKABEE 0.49% (648 votes)

BUSH 0.43% (562 votes)

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 9:19 AM  

Yeah, but it's generally accepted by all knowledgeable people that Trump's ceiling is 66%. No way he's going above that.

Blogger Hunsdon October 29, 2015 9:36 AM  

Josh, if you've got a few minutes, I'd like to talk with you about our lord and savior, Donald Trump.

(jk)

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 9:37 AM  

If you say Trump is just like all the others so there's no reason to support him, but then write thousands of words to oppose him, there's a disconnect there. No reason to support == no reason to oppose. If you think he's worse than the others, enough to oppose him every time you think you hear his name, then it's on you to say why.

I don't blame anyone for not liking Trump. There are plenty of reasons not to like him. His love of New York City is near the top of the list for me. But one reason not to like him is that he can be kind of a blind, stubborn asshole when he has his mind made up about something. That, plus the fact that he's paying his own way and not as beholden to the GOP donors as the others, makes him less likely (though not 0%) to roll over and "grow in office" as soon as he gets there, like every other Republican we've seen for 30 years.

That may not be enough to overcome your distaste and distrust for him, but it does make him different from the others.

Blogger ncartist October 29, 2015 9:57 AM  

Slightly O.T.: AFIK, the terms "cuck" and "cuckservative" have only been in use since this past summer; yet, they have spread like wildfire to the point that even the old codger James Kirkpatrick is using them.

Anonymous BGS October 29, 2015 10:00 AM  

A cuckservative favors what's good for the Jews and opposes what the Jews are against,

Since jews are for a secure border fence, no black/brown immigration, chemically sterilizing any blacks already in, & a machine gun in every hand, why is that a bad thing? Oh yea they only want that in Israel.

Anonymous bgs October 29, 2015 10:04 AM  

Slightly O.T.: AFIK, the terms "cuck" and "cuckservative" have only been in use since this past summer;

5 foot tall stack of cuckold porn versus a thumb drive with the combined works of Shakespeare and Chaucer that used the word cuckold when no blacks lived in England.

Blogger George of the Jungle October 29, 2015 10:12 AM  

Moral equivalence is the kneejerk reaction of those who know absolutely nothing about religion.

George of the Jungle

Blogger Marie October 29, 2015 10:16 AM  

"but it does make him different from the others."

I have liberal friends who respect Trump, loathe they would be to admit that at the moment. They consider what he says more than other candidates because they have a frame of reference for him that doesn't include Republican Politics.

If you admit you will need some independent/non party-line voters and maybe even some democrats to win the general election you are going to have far more luck with Trump than with Cruz.

Cruz has the reputation of being the face of " the crazy republican establishment" and he is more interested in playing politics than improving the country. (That may not be true, but that's how people see him.)

If Cruz gets the nomination, I'm pretty sure the republicans are going to have another Romney on their hands.

Blogger VD October 29, 2015 10:36 AM  

AFIK, the terms "cuck" and "cuckservative" have only been in use since this past summer; yet, they have spread like wildfire to the point that even the old codger James Kirkpatrick is using them.

That is what is called "effective rhetoric". Which, you will note, I correctly called from the start. Anything that makes people squirm upon hearing it is effective rhetoric, for the obvious reason that rhetoric is about persuasion through feelbads/feelgoods.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 10:38 AM  

"Cruz has the reputation of being the face of " the crazy republican establishment" and he is more interested in playing politics than improving the country. (That may not be true, but that's how people see him.)"

wierd how people never hold that against democrats. Only republicans.

Blogger Student in Blue October 29, 2015 10:45 AM  

@Nate
wierd how people never hold that against democrats. Only republicans.

The democrats, once elected, eventually gave them some gimmedats.

Blogger FP October 29, 2015 10:46 AM  

"Santorum is the highest rated candidate by NumbersUSA"

Josh, Santorum is the very definition of a cuck. He was loyal to the GOP and got roasted for it, you'd think he'd have learned by now. He stood with Arlen Specter who then went Dem. He lost his third election to the senate in PA by almost 20 points.

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 10:54 AM  

Josh, Santorum is the very definition of a cuck. He was loyal to the GOP and got roasted for it, you'd think he'd have learned by now. He stood with Arlen Specter who then went Dem. He lost his third election to the senate in PA by almost 20 points.

But he's the highest rated candidate by NumbersUSA!

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 10:56 AM  

Josh, Santorum is the very definition of a cuck. He was loyal to the GOP and got roasted for it, you'd think he'd have learned by now. He stood with Arlen Specter who then went Dem. He lost his third election to the senate in PA by almost 20 points.

But he's the highest rated candidate by NumbersUSA!

Blogger Krul October 29, 2015 11:02 AM  

@139 VD - "Anything that makes people squirm upon hearing it is effective rhetoric, for the obvious reason that rhetoric is about persuasion through feelbads/feelgoods."

Something clicked for me when I read this. Rhetoric is Operant Conditioning.

For those who don't know, operant conditioning is the process of controlling a living thing's behavior with rewards and punishments. It's training. Rhetoric is an application of operant conditioning where the rewards and punishments are emotional.

"Cuckservative", then, is an example of "positive punishment". It's the conservative base saying "No! Bad dog!" to the politicians.

Perhaps this comparison can help dialectical thinkers better comprehend what's going on with rhetoric. Your objective is not agreement, but compliance.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 11:06 AM  

"VD - "Anything that makes people squirm upon hearing it is effective rhetoric, for the obvious reason that rhetoric is about persuasion through feelbads/feelgoods."

And the notion that Murray is a rhetorical mind is based on what evidence?

He said something stupid. He used the word "fascism" wrong. He's wrong about the Know Nothings. Bash him for those things. But generally speaking rhetoric doesn't work that well on dialects... and I wager Murray is a dialect.

Calling him a cuck will have the same effect as calling him a racist. It won't matter.

Blogger Marie October 29, 2015 11:08 AM  

"weird how people never hold that against democrats. Only republicans."

Sure they do. But they are never going to voice their criticism of the ruling party in front of you.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 11:10 AM  

"Sure they do. But they are never going to voice their criticism of the ruling party in front of you. "

That's the dumbest thing that's been said on a thread full of really dumb things.

When the democrats are the minority they are far more obstructionist than the republicans have been... and they are praised for it.

Blogger Marie October 29, 2015 11:25 AM  

Nate,

That's because the democrats play the PR game better than the republicans do. But getting back to the original point, even if you are right and the republicans are the only ones who ever get branded with the crazy-establishment brush.....So what?

Do you want to complain about how unfairly the deck is stacked or do you want to win the election?

Cruz isn't going to win. If I am wrong and he gets the nomination and wins the general election I'll buy you a case of your favorite whiskey and send it to your door.

OpenID Jack Amok October 29, 2015 11:31 AM  

Calling him a cuck will have the same effect as calling him a racist. It won't matter.

To him, perhaps not, but - especially on the Internet - the audience is bigger than the guy you're responding to, and most of them will be driven by rhetoric.

Blogger Student in Blue October 29, 2015 11:36 AM  

@Nate
And the notion that Murray is a rhetorical mind is based on what evidence?

Nate, someone who has been persuaded by rhetoric does not mean they have a "rhetorical mind". No one is purely rational, and no one is purely emotional - there are just heavy preferences for either.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 11:38 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Lulabelle October 29, 2015 11:44 AM  

" I'll buy you a case of your favorite whiskey and send it to your door. "

Uh-oh. Nate has expensive taste in whiskey.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 11:47 AM  

"Cruz isn't going to win. If I am wrong and he gets the nomination and wins the general election I'll buy yo u a case of your favorite whiskey and send it to your door. "

There are only a few republicans have no chance of beating hillary. They are the ones that absoutely turn off the base. Cruz isn't one of them.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 11:48 AM  

"Nate, someone who has been persuaded by rhetoric does not mean they have a "rhetorical mind". No one is purely rational, and no one is purely emotional - there are just heavy preferences for either."

That's a distinction without a difference. It didn't work when the left shouted racist. It won't work when you shout cuck.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 11:52 AM  

"To him, perhaps not, but - especially on the Internet - the audience is bigger than the guy you're responding to, and most of them will be driven by rhetoric. "

look you all know my stance on this whole cuck thing. No sense in repeating myself.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 12:18 PM  

Ok VD, conceded, it is not somewhat correct.

As socialism fails, amygdala pressure rises. Fascism outgroups the far and weak in response; Communism the near and strong. Thus fascism is superficially, relatively K.

Since to a leftist superficial holiness signaling is the sum total of reality, leftists equate any anti-far, anti-weak political movement to fascism.

This is literally the only distinction they think matters about politics.

Someone will get outgrouped hard as amygdala rises. That's an inevitable response to Fed collapse, anarcho-tyranny and NAM underclass crime.

I think Serb and Murray notice this wave and shoot their own side in response, which if done sufficiently results in the bloodier Communist variant, wherein everyone is criticized and then shot in order from least to most guilty.

Obviously having walls around borders is non-Fascist. They are complaining because they as pro immigrationists and their alien proxies are being outgrouped. What they complain about is simply rationalist policy, as it correctly identifies and solves the problem. This drains madness, helping prevent a fascist or communist state.

To a cuckservative, anything that fails to bend over is a fascist, ie equipped with a rod rather than a buttplug. They are Mensheviks who plead for a fiscally responsible proletarian workers revolution.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2015 12:32 PM  

"the vibrancy of the cultural interchange"

That's a red herring. People like to pretend we're ancient Athens, or something, where mamy of the names we remember were from greater Greece, Asia Minor, and so forth. But where's the Mexican Aristotle? There is none. Admittedly, many a great American cultural figure was foreign born. Quite a lot of them were of the international culture of science, like Einstein, and so didn't add any "vibrancy." Others, like those surrounding the academics who write about the benefits of diversity are basically the same as every other damn student or teacher, except for the accent.

The only undeniable cultural benefit of immigration is food.

Blogger Student in Blue October 29, 2015 12:32 PM  

@Nate
That's a distinction without a difference. It didn't work when the left shouted racist. It won't work when you shout cuck.

And theeeere goes my point, right over your head.

The "difference" that you missed is that there is zero need to prove he has a rhetorical mind in order to be a cuck.

Blogger VD October 29, 2015 12:40 PM  

He said something stupid. He used the word "fascism" wrong. He's wrong about the Know Nothings. Bash him for those things. But generally speaking rhetoric doesn't work that well on dialects... and I wager Murray is a dialect.

You missed my point. Murray was using rhetoric. He got multiple barrels of it right back in the face. Rhetoric was the proper response to his rhetorical sally.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 1:04 PM  

It's funny though... reading up on know nothings... they were right on nationalism... but they also have comonalities with the fascists of Italy beyond that. Women's suffrage for example. It's actually a kind of long list. The weren't capital f fascists obviously.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 1:15 PM  

"He got multiple barrels of it right back in the face. Rhetoric was the proper response to his rhetorical sally."

maybe I'm hopelessly in Murray's corner and blind.

but this looks like a Vox Day style trap to me.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 1:46 PM  

There is a time for sniping and a time for volley fire. I suspect this was the latter.

You do not need a full judicial proceeding to shoot at the other line.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 1:59 PM  

Details dialectical often do not matter;
we can build our capitol once their line is shatter'd.

Blogger Student in Blue October 29, 2015 2:07 PM  

@Nate
maybe I'm hopelessly in Murray's corner and blind.

but this looks like a Vox Day style trap to me.


You're the one who's convinced that dialectically minded people are immune to rhetoric, which is observably false. Either that or you believe dialectically minded people cannot use rhetoric, which is also observably false.

OpenID karsten0 October 29, 2015 2:25 PM  

"A cuckservative favors what's good for the Jews and opposes what the Jews are against, even (nay, especially) against the interests of his own race."

/facepalm


There's the disqualify. And here's the rhetoric:

"Aww, come on, Nate. We've gotta have at least one "It's the joooos!!!!" post."

Just like any Leftists would denounce conservative dialectic with rhetorical means.

You're so transparent. Posts identifying the toxic effects of groups working for the interests of blacks, of Hispanics, of women, those are fine. But a post identifying that Jews are working for their own interests and against those of whites, those are special; those to be disqualified with the greatest vehemence.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 2:29 PM  

"You're the one who's convinced that dialectically minded people are immune to rhetoric, which is observably false. "

I'm not convinced of that. I'm saying using against this particular one doesn't sound like a smart plan because its already been used against him so much already.

Shouting CUCK at someone who's had RACIS! shouted at him is whole life isn't impressive

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 2:30 PM  

"You do not need a full judicial proceeding to shoot at the other line."

This is the guy that wrote the bible for your line.

are you sure you're shooting that volley at the other line?

Blogger Student in Blue October 29, 2015 2:53 PM  

@Nate
I'm not convinced of that. I'm saying using against this particular one doesn't sound like a smart plan because its already been used against him so much already.

That's not what you said at @146. You quite clearly said calling him a cuck doesn't matter because he's a "dialectic thinker".

Shouting CUCK at someone who's had RACIS! shouted at him is whole life isn't impressive

Your argument would only make sense if the quoted selection in the topic were just people yelling cuck at him.

They aren't. Only one guy said cuck in the selection, and that wasn't Vox.

Hence, they aren't shouting "CUCK" at him, they just applied the description to him after the fact because he's trying to apply 'fascist feelbads' to people who want to crack down on illegal immigration. What they shouted at him sounded a lot more like "What in the hell are you smoking!?"

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 3:02 PM  

Yeah, but it's generally accepted by all knowledgeable people that Trump's ceiling is 66%. No way he's going above that.

Heh. According to at least some polls he's at 74% among Republicans and 57% among all voters.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 3:05 PM  

I'm sure he was standing in the line when he was hit, yes. Biographers and psychologists may quibble over why.

It doesn't matter how he feels about the other brakes on the train. Only one of them isn't broken. And only one man is capable of pulling it. This Trumps the rest.

Hope is hanging by a thread; noosed around her purple head. Tap the eye; yep she's dead.

Blogger Sevron October 29, 2015 5:28 PM  

Nate, you might want to read Steve Sailor's reviews of Murray's works before declaring that he wrote our side's "bible". I will provide links later if you are interested, I am at work now and can't spend much time besides some light reading. You might also want to seriously consider that you are, in fact too far in his corner to be fully rational.

Hell, if you really would read the links, I'd buy you a bottle of your favorite rye and a case of your preferred 9mm ammo, no strings.

Blogger SciVo October 30, 2015 4:16 AM  

LurkingPuppy @3: Huh. Now that I see “zerg rush” right next to something about immigration… the West is actually being zerg-rushed.

Ha! That needs to be a meme. Looks like it's time to dig up that old copy of Photoshop Elements and install it on this computer.

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