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Monday, October 26, 2015

Thank you, Winter-chan

It's their fault and it's not our problem. Besides, as both Napoleon and Hitler learned the hard way, invaders freezing to death during winter is a feature, not a bug.
Migrants crossing the Balkans will begin freezing to death as winter approaches, the head of European Union has said, as leaders warned the continent was "falling apart" trying to deal with the biggest humanitarian crisis since the Second World War.

As leaders of eastern European countries turned on each other at a foul-tempered emergency summit in Brussels, they said the Schengen visa-free zone and even the European Union itself could be pulled apart as states threw up borders to halt the influx.

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, said a solution was urgently needed or thousands of refugee families facing winter temperature on the hillsides and freezing river-banks of Eastern Europe, would die.

"Every day counts," he said. "Otherwise we will soon see families in cold rivers in the Balkans perish miserably."

Miro Cerar, the Slovenian prime minister, said the EU was days from collapse as his country buckled under an “unbearable” influx of migrants. "If we do not deliver some immediate and concrete actions on the ground in the next few days and weeks I believe the EU and Europe as a whole will start falling apart," he said.

Werner Faymann, the Austrian chancellor, said Sunday's meeting would "either consolidate the unity of Europe or watch the slow decomposition of the EU."
First of all, the continent of Europe is not going to fall apart no matter what happens. Second, the EU has already started falling apart, as the various walls going up and Euroskeptic parties winning elections in former EU candidates like Poland demonstrates. Third, what "unity of Europe"? Faymann might as have reasonably appealed to consolidating the unicorn of Europe. The EU is already mortally wounded, it just hasn't stopped thrashing about yet.

If the EU leaders genuinely care about the poor families in cold rivers" (which they absolutely don't), there is a very simple and straightforward solution that is certain to save thousands of lives. Start sending immigrants back to their homelands and show it on television. Repeatedly. Incessantly. Once people see that the entire arduous ordeal is guaranteed to be for nothing, they will turn back. Or not begin the long march in the first place.

The EU leaders clearly don't understand that most Europeans will be as happy to see the invaders fall to General Winter as the Russian people were to see the French, and later the Germans, do the same. They're about to learn what the US leaders learned after Sandy Hook: the sob stories are not fooling anyone any longer.

With 3,175 migrant deaths in 2015 vs 125 total Berlin Wall deaths, Angela Merkel has killed more people than any German leader since Hitler.

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132 Comments:

Blogger Markku October 26, 2015 5:30 AM  

It will be an exceptionally harsh winter in Finland, say the forecasts.

Praise the Good Lord!

Blogger Rantor October 26, 2015 5:58 AM  

And what is the only thing that could unite and save the EU today? Uniting together to defend Europe from the invaders? Ahh the progressive socialist internationalists don't see it. Well the people closer to the problem are reacting. We are seeing the organic, natural response to invasion. The PEGIDAs of the world are the little white blood cells of Europe. Further right we have over 500 attacks on immigrant housing this year in Germany versus about 40 last year (Der Spiegel). The CSU needs to rise up and throw Merkel out, bring in a real Christian conservative willing to defend Germany and Europe too. Otherwise the EU experiment is dead. Current proposals to accelerate Turkey's membership are totally deranged but then many of the people remain blind to the threat. The idiocracy that is Koln just elected the pro-immigrant candidate to accelerate the destruction of that once German city.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 26, 2015 6:07 AM  

That final sentence was a masterful twist of the shiv. Well done, Vox!

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 26, 2015 6:22 AM  

Are you sure this isn't a preamble for a drive to shovel them down to the Riviera?

OpenID xsyq October 26, 2015 6:31 AM  

Matthew 24:12 seems very appropriate here.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

Blogger Sherwood family October 26, 2015 6:38 AM  

If I remember properly, the weather's a bit warmer throughout most of Syria. It would be a shame to leave a pleasant climate like that for the icy oblivion of Europe, right? Maybe someone could do these folks a favor and point them back in that direction.

Blogger 334 October 26, 2015 6:51 AM  

I love the line "families in cold rivers", when anyone who has actually seen them knows we're talking about an army of young men with the occasional family thrown in for optics.

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 6:59 AM  

I wonder how many of the refugees are coming to Europe in order to get on the welfare gravy train, then get underground jobs, so that they can send money back to family and fellow political beings in Syria and other countries? A Wikipedia estimate is that $22B Mexico's economy is supported that way. Also "The main states receiving remittances in 2014 were Michoacán, Guanajuato, Jalisco, Mexico and Puebla, which jointly captured 45% of total remittances in that year] Several state governments, with the support of the federal government, have implemented programs to use part of the remittances to finance public works. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico And that doesn't even include foreign aid.

Unfortunately, I must agree, the only way for Europe to humanely deal with the crisis is to ship the people back quickly and publicly. They should be put on bare bones military transport planes and dropped off at mid-east airports with a great display of cameras. Then people would stop coming futilely, self deport, and maybe fix their own problems. Hey, wait a minute. That is what Eisenhower did in the US with operation wetback. Historical proof it works.

Blogger Josh October 26, 2015 7:11 AM  

Winter is racis

Blogger Markku October 26, 2015 7:16 AM  

By golly, you are right, Josh! Winter is the epitome of white privilege. It's the reason we have low amount of pigment in our skin. Winter must be eliminated, for social justice.

Double the carbon emissions!

Blogger Michael Maier October 26, 2015 7:17 AM  

First of all, the continent of Europe is not going to fall apart no matter what happens.

Yeah, it's gonna capsize. Like Guam.

Blogger Markku October 26, 2015 7:17 AM  

And roll out the carbon credits. You put carbon out there, you get credit.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 26, 2015 7:18 AM  

Crush the effectiveness of their rhetorical jab word of "racist" that mainstay of their propaganda efforts this problem would be solved before Xmas.

What does "racist" mean anyway?

Blogger Markku October 26, 2015 7:18 AM  

EU is Yugoslavia.

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery October 26, 2015 7:19 AM  

DadofTen - I wonder how many of the refugees are coming to Europe in order to get on the welfare gravy train, then get underground jobs, so that they can send money back to family and fellow political beings in Syria and other countries?

Pretty much all of them. If you've seen the pictures and videos from the invaders at Calais over the summer, it's striking how much fun they're having.

These are not grim-faced Syrian mothers in rags clutching half-starved little moppets. They're nearly all healthy young Arab and African men with smartphones, laughing their arses off and taking selfies as they run rings around the police.

You stop invasions the same way you stop riots. Stop rewarding them. Stop pussyfooting. Stop making it fun. Break their bones and ship them back with a couple of aspirin and a free souvenir T-shirt bearing the slogan "My friend went to Europe and all he got was his lousy head kicked in".

This is a trivially easy problem to solve.

Blogger Michael Maier October 26, 2015 7:22 AM  

"The camera is the new gun." - The Judge (Napolitano)

I cannot believe TPTB haven't realized that information and communication is too free for their schemes to work. For all of our ills, the truth outs too easily to hide the truth from the people for any time at all.

I just do not see where these evil idiots like Merkel can really believe their own bullshite. It seems really pointless unless they want a bloodbath and a totalitarian regime... which won't work either.

Blogger Michael Maier October 26, 2015 7:25 AM  

What does "racist" mean anyway?

Plenty of us don't care when we're called that anyway.

I wouldn't breed with a non-white.

I'm a racist.

I believe in free-(NON-)association.

I'm a racist.

I believe holding folks to standards.

I'm a racist.

I want to live amongst folks that look like me.

I'm a racist.

So what?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 26, 2015 7:38 AM  

I'll believe we are "winning" when I see an "anti-racist" street agitator using the word "racist" and then having its teeth all busted out with a lead pipe to the face and said agitator face down and bleeding profusely on the street. It is called the moral level of war, it is the most important level of war, and we need it badly.

Blogger VFM 188 October 26, 2015 7:38 AM  

Knock off the incorrect grammar and spelling, Michael Maier!

You be raciss! That was what you meant to convey. There. Fixed.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 26, 2015 7:40 AM  

I'm obviously not pleased that people will be freezing to death. I'd rather that people not have to die over this sort of thing. And these are people, regardless of their behavior.

That said, their behavior is the reason why Europeans simply aren't interested in helping them. When refugees destroy care packages because they don't like the food, and when they burn down refugee camps for reasons unknown and use the provided blankets to fan the flames, the sympathy that people like me have for them quickly drops off.

So this simply isn't going to be the fault of the Europeans.

@17 I don't care what my neighbors look like, I care about how they act.

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 7:48 AM  

Going back to the idea of deporting the "refugees" quickly and humanely on military transports to mid-east airports. It occurred to me that they should all be sent back to WHATEVER country they want to claim. Don't ask them for proof. Then the rich countries, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, might be inundated with refugees. Well, except they really would violently deport the liars. I am not in favor of violence, other than what is necessary to put the "refugees" in zip cuffs for their trip home. You run much slower and cause less trouble with your hands behind your back. Make it as humane and safe as possible.

Blogger Sherwood family October 26, 2015 7:48 AM  

The sad part of all of this is that these problems might have been avoided. If Merkel specifically had been firm that the EU would be willing to send aid but would turn back any and all of these migrants/refugees/invaders should they try to cross into Europe and if she had used her position to push other European states to follow her lead instead of doing the opposite and inviting them in and then browbeating other nations to make the same mistake, most of these guys would still be at home.

Of course, if the United States had left Iraq alone, not meddled in Libya, and not destabilized Syria then there would have been no reason for most of this in the first place.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 26, 2015 7:52 AM  

When Americans wax poetic about our immigrant ancestors, the hardships they endured are a big part of the mythos. Starving in the holds of ships; afflicted by the diseases brought on by overcrowding, underfeeding, and the elements; facing the slings and arrows of the natives, both indigenous and of the "we were here first" variety; working every waking moment just to provide one's children with a crust; losing all contact with the loved ones left behind -- these are just some of the hardships that filtered out the weak, lazy, and fearful; made those who survived it all stronger; and ultimately made America a great nation. (It's one of the reasons we feel superior to the rest of the world.)

So yes, a hard winter is a feature. It'll make the surviving immigrants better, and ultimately make Europe better. Other hardships that could be provided for their own good: natives shooting at them, businesses refusing to hire them or serve them, and perhaps a bit of scurvy.

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 7:56 AM  

@22. Sherwood family
Not to mention what we did in Egypt, Iran, and Afghanistan. Every foreign adventure has had severe blowback over time. I guess the British and French left the middle east and let us be the patsies to support the Shah of Iran so we could feel the pain of trying to stabilize a tribal area immersed in racial, religious, and power wars. I guess Ron Paul is smarter than I thought he was 10 years ago when I called him a kook, a traitor, and anti-humanity.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 7:56 AM  

I'm obviously not pleased that people will be freezing to death. I'd rather that people not have to die over this sort of thing. And these are people, regardless of their behavior.

So are serial killers. They are invaders, period. They should be regarded as such.

No one had to die at all. But Merkel decided to try to win approbation by encouraging them all. Their deaths, however many occur, are on her hands.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 7:57 AM  

I guess Ron Paul is smarter than I thought he was 10 years ago when I called him a kook, a traitor, and anti-humanity.

You don't say.... Better late then never.

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 26, 2015 8:05 AM  

There tends to be a degree of correspondence between the two ...

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 26, 2015 8:07 AM  

@25

Which I agreed with. I acknowledge without reservation that these migrants are not what the media is pretending they are. They don't see themselves as refugees seeking shelter in the home of whoever will have them, and they aren't even following Islamic doctrines about showing respect for your hosts. They are acting like entitled, spoiled brats, and I'm rapidly losing whatever sympathy I've got left for their situation.

That said, Ron Paul went on record to complain about US efforts to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. I watched part of the interview he gave to the Russian media. Whatever the value of his ideas about domestic policy, especially economic policy, a lot of his foreign policy notions are flat-out insane. I'd be happy with President Cruz picking him for Commerce Secretary, but not with President Paul.

Blogger Salt October 26, 2015 8:10 AM  

The EU has an option at saving these invading people. Abandon infrastructure projects, abandon the school system, agandon a bit of the healthcare system and devote those resources to building housing and support for those people. Of course, the EU will become a slum of sorts; a liberal Utopia. Well, there it is. It is an option.

Blogger Josh October 26, 2015 8:12 AM  

a lot of his foreign policy notions are flat-out insane.

List some.

On the other hand, almost all the foreign policy notions of Cruz and the neocon establish are flat-out insane.

Blogger Student in Blue October 26, 2015 8:13 AM  

Thank you, Winter-chan

I don't like it.



...I love love love it.

This title is so good it hurts.

Blogger Steve, the Dark Ninja of Mockery October 26, 2015 8:17 AM  

Damn Winter-chan

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 8:17 AM  

@28. White Knight Leo #0368
The trouble with opposing Iran getting nukes is that it becomes the US's problem. All of a sudden the US is in charge of embargoes, inspections, bombing for non-compliance, and waging a trillion dollar war to prevent it. Every country geographically closer should care more and be the first to work to prevent it. That puts the US way back down the list. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Italy, Israel. And if Germany, Britain, France and Russia are worried, they have a much bigger stake than the US does. They are the ones who should worry. We should just improve our missile defenses and port nuke detectors. Let those countries worry about it.

Blogger James Dixon October 26, 2015 8:23 AM  

> I'm obviously not pleased that people will be freezing to death. I'd rather that people not have to die over this sort of thing.

You'd rather people not have to live (or in this case, die) with the consequences of their decisions and actions?

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 8:25 AM  

@28. White Knight Leo #0368
Returning to the original post. If the EU allows all these refugees into their countries. The problem of mid-east nukes really will be the EU's problem. The hatred that all those refugees start feeling for their hosts will deflect anger away from the USA if we are just smart enough to get out of there and leave bad enough alone. Okay, forget that. Our politician are incapable of leaving a problem alone.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 8:34 AM  

@1 Markku:
I live in Florida, I like it and I'm staying put.
But then again I'm not an ''Iraqi refugee''.
But I have to smile at the ''greeting'' you Finns have been giving ''Iraqi refugees''.
I could be wrong but isn't Finland a few thousand kilometers away from Iraq?
(Yeah, I can do globe). IIRC, it's also a hell of lot different in climate.
That's why I'm not coming to visit, I'd freeze my butt off, so chill out... Literally.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 26, 2015 8:41 AM  

The sad part of all of this is that these problems might have been avoided.

I keep repeating the old farmer's aphorism: Good fences make good neighbors. (Politicians who have had an 11th-hour conversion on immigration are welcome to use that.) If Europe and America had had strong fences all along and not tried to play Charitable Boss & Mommy to the rest of the world, these people wouldn't be risking their lives.

Fortunately, technology can stop the problem fairly quickly. Centuries ago, it might have taken many years for the news that the risk/reward ratio wasn't worth it after all to get back home and stop the flood. Nowadays, thanks to every invader having a smart phone, as soon as the welcome mat is rolled up and construction begun on the fences, that information can be transmitted to their homes in an instant. No one has to die this winter.

Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 8:44 AM  

"List some."

Josh... c'mon... using your military for defense instead of offense is nuts. Switzerland tried that. Look what happened to them.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 8:45 AM  

BTW, out of curiosity I just googled it 48 degrees Fahrenheit? No thanks, I'd rather it be 78 (F).

Blogger bub October 26, 2015 8:48 AM  

Was ist da los? Global warming will fix the winter problem any minute now. 97% of scientists agree on this.

OpenID elijahrhodes October 26, 2015 8:51 AM  

Europe may right the ship sooner than later, but I'm increasingly pessimistic about the United States. I simply do not see anything stopping the invasion until it's far past the time when anything but real men engaging in actual war solves it. But where are those real men? We've drugged, indoctrinated, and stupefied entire generations. U.S. men are mostly soft, mentally weak, imbeciles.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 26, 2015 8:53 AM  

Earlier this month Dayib, now a PhD researcher at the University of Helsinki, hit out earlier this month at what she called Finland’s “failed integration policies,” saying inefficient government programmes are overwhelmingly run by, and designed to benefit, Finnish citizens rather than refugees.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 8:54 AM  

@38 Nate:
Josh... c'mon... using your military for defense instead of offense is nuts. Switzerland tried that. Look what happened to them.
Yeah right? They managed to stay out of both world wars. Quite a feat in itself considering that they were smack dab in the middle of things both times.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. Burnin' Up! October 26, 2015 8:54 AM  

All the sob stories failed.

Europe will survive (even though broke thanks to absurd banking policies) despite the leadership pushing this migrant distraction upon the people. What utter dysfunction for the people to put up with. But the people won't tolerate it, they will simply disappear those they dont want in their country. Multiculti fails.

At Zero Hedge - From the Death of Europe: "European leaders talk about two things these days; preserving European values by taking in Muslim migrants and integrating Muslim migrants into Europe by getting them to adopt European values. It does not occur to them that their plan to save European values depends on killing European values."


Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 9:00 AM  

" They don't see themselves as refugees seeking shelter in the home of whoever will have them, and they aren't even following Islamic doctrines about showing respect for your hosts"

/facepalm

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 9:01 AM  

Looking at that article that photo caught my eye.
If I were to dress like that here I'd likely be (physically) attacked. No joke.

Blogger Sherwood family October 26, 2015 9:03 AM  

I was in Egypt when we fouled that up and that decision is directly related to the problem in Syria. Assad has nowhere to go because he saw what the U.S. did to Mubarak and then to Gaddafi (even after he made nice and dumped his weapons programs.)

Pro-tip: if you don't want to have to fight for the last bloody inch of territory give people a bolt hole so they feel like they have an option.

The bigger strategic question is: what do we care about Syria? Without Iraq as a geopolitical problem (self-inflicted) we have absolutely no vested interest in it.

Did we leave it alone? Of course not. Instead, we encouraged people to take to the streets and called for Assad's ouster. Having seen how his fellow Arab strongmen ended up why would he listen to the U.S? Better to try to ride it out.

Now that decision is paying off because he's called our bluff and the Russians have gotten in to shore things up.

In the meantime, however, there is an opportunity for enterprising "refugees" and Merkel swallowed what they were selling whole.

Blogger Josh October 26, 2015 9:05 AM  

Sherwood,

I'd appreciate your analysis of the Iran deal as an FSO.

Blogger Edward Isaacs October 26, 2015 9:11 AM  

Winter-chan is some seriously pagan-tier magicka bullshit. Surprised to see it here.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 9:15 AM  

@40 bub:
Was ist da los? Global warming will fix the winter problem any minute now. 97% of scientists agree on this.
I always get a kick out of seeing protests against ''global warming'' in places like Montreal, Canada.
Current temp: 36 degrees (F).

Blogger ncartist October 26, 2015 9:29 AM  

Trapp family to rescue

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 26, 2015 9:30 AM  

@45

That was intended to be facetious. There really is an Islamic doctrine like that, but this migrant issue proves that it's not commonly followed. By contrast to the similar Jewish doctrine, which generally has been.

I'm not arguing in favor of letting them in. Quite the contrary, their behavior proves that they have no intention of being good neighbors, responsible citizens, or even of simply assimilating into the nations that they wish to settle.

They are spoiled, entitled brats who are angry because Europeans don't want to share what they have to people who demonstrate clear intention to take what they want and refuse to contribute anything in return.

And those are the ones who AREN'T members of ISIS or other terrorist groups who are embedded in the migrant population and are probably egging on the violence.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 9:34 AM  

The reason Montreal came to mind was this:
Michael Sam says he's stepping away from football out of concern for his mental health.
Let's see, crap CFL pay, Montreal climate, Canadian taxes, and French on top of it all. Yeah, that would drive me nuts too.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 26, 2015 9:35 AM  

@33

It's our problem anyway, because we are already the Great Satan to them. They hate us specifically, apart from their general hatred of the West, and Western nations are certainly vulnerable to the "suitcase nuke" scenario. The kind of nuke that would actually fit in a suitcase would be rather small, but the end result would be very, very bad for the West, at least in the short run.

There's also the fact that Israel IS within their reach, and Israel is our ally and a major trading partner. Not trying to stop Iran from gaining nuclear warheads means abandoning Israel to deal with the problem on its own. That's not to say that Israel is incapable of dealing with the problem - the issue is that the means by which Israel can respond involve pre-emptive strikes and missiles of their own.

In the current climate, Israel can't take that step without risking serious blowback from their trading partners, and as a country it is isolated enough that such blowback would be very dangerous. With our support, however, it would be much easier for them to take that step. If nothing else, continuing to have full access to American markets would blunt the effects of blowback.

I do get the "it's not our problem" argument, I just think it's wrong in this scenario. There's no way to stop Iranian nukes from being our problem.

Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 9:36 AM  

"Winter-chan is some seriously pagan-tier magicka bullshit"

we don't care.

Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 9:38 AM  

"There's no way to stop Iranian nukes from being our problem."

You realize we have provided intense motivation for all of these countries to get nukes right? Look at our policy. We screw with non-nuke countries. We cow tow to nuke countries.

Logic dictates that if Saddam had nukes we wouldn't have killed him.

So... Can you really question the Iranians for wanting nukes?

Everyone is going to have nukes Leo. everyone. You can accept that fact or you can ignore it... but it is never the less a fact.

Blogger Sherwood family October 26, 2015 9:41 AM  

Josh,

Well, in my view the Iran deal comes down to practical questions. The most practical of which is: really, if Iran decides to get a nuclear weapon what are we going to do about it?

We have tried sanctioning Iran which created enough pain to bring them to the negotiating table.

We could try to bomb their program out of existence but that is pretty much impossible and would give them every reason to renew it at warp speed to prevent anything like that from ever happening again.

We could try to assassinate their scientists/technicians but that is also tough opens our scientists/technicians to the same kind of treatment.

We could put boots on the ground and try to "find" weapons of mass destruction but that would make Iraq look like a cakewalk and it would be political suicide for the president who tried to do it.

In short, we have one basic option: to try to make it more palatable to not pursue a nuclear weapon than to pursue one. I am not sure this deal does that. But it is a lot closer than what went before.

I typically have nothing good to say about Obama but this deal is something that is more good than bad and is part of the process of stepping away from the neo-con/military-industrial-complex invasion extravaganza of the last 14 years.

As far as Iran my view is that if we can make nice with Mao or Stalin we can make nice with the Mullahs.

That does not make them nice guys but nobody in the region is and they are not worse than their neighbors, just bigger.

Additionally, my view is that we can buy oil from them as easily as from the Saudis.

Policy at State is more nuanced then that but basically consists of a realistic view that there is no way to stop the Iranians if they really want a bomb and attempting to do so fruitlessly will cause bigger problems than Iran actually possessing a bomb would.

The Mullahs are also not wild eyed apocalyptic psychopaths. They benefit too much in this world to want to go to the next one in a blaze of glory.

Our problems with Iran come from the 50's Cold War stuff we did there and our support for the Shah as an alternative to Soviet backed regimes in some of the rest of the neighborhood. The Shah is gone and it is time to get on with normalizing relations rather than keeping them as a pariah state. Those are my two cents.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 9:42 AM  

There's no way to stop Iranian nukes from being our problem.

Iran is going to get nukes. Deal with it. And they're going to get them thanks to the US attacks on Hussein and Qaddafi.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 26, 2015 9:45 AM  

@56

And if the nations who wanted them wanted them for self-defense, I would be less inclined to argue. But I've seen plenty of evidence that Iran wants them *in order to use them*, not merely to buff themselves up. The constant chants of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" kinda give that impression.

If it was a nation like Japan, or South Korea, I wouldn't say anything, because neither nation is run by people who follow an apocalyptic death-cult like Islam. You do know why the war between Iran and Iraq stopped, right? The Iranian mullahs said that the fact that Iraqi gas attacks did not produce bleeding deaths meant that the Iranian soldiers who were killed by the gas did not qualify as martyrs. They didn't stop fighting because of the death toll; they stopped because the way they were dying meant they didn't go to heaven. The Ayatollah wasn't kidding when he said they worship death.



Sure, we might not have invaded Iraq if Saddam had nukes. So? That's because we would be afraid *that he would use them*. That was the reason why we didn't want him to have nukes. He had proven perfectly willing to use lesser WMDs on more or less innocent people, there was no reason to think he wouldn't use a greater WMD.

Blogger Cinco October 26, 2015 9:54 AM  

1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

2. Never go all in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

3. Never march across Europe in the winter.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 9:57 AM  

I've seen plenty of evidence that Iran wants them *in order to use them*, not merely to buff themselves up.

Please. They're not suicidal.

Blogger James Dixon October 26, 2015 10:04 AM  

> ... saying inefficient government programmes are overwhelmingly run by, and designed to benefit, Finnish citizens rather than refugees.

Gee, taxes paid by citizens are being used to benefit citizens. What a novel concept. One would almost thing it was designed that way, wouldn't one?

> But I've seen plenty of evidence that Iran wants them *in order to use them*, not merely to buff themselves up.

And who exactly are they going to use them against, Leo? The only country in the Middle East that we know already has enough nukes to turn the entire area in to glass?

Blogger David-093 October 26, 2015 10:07 AM  

I don't care about Iran. This is America, there's nothing to worry about from them that a single nuclear sub couldn't handle in an afternoon. And the hysteria about them is just weird.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:09 AM  

As I've said before, it's pretty warm back in their home desert. Simple problem, simple solution. GTFO and go back where you came from invaders. They apparently lost the idea of the spring campaign, and started it in the summer and fall.

Blogger Sherwood family October 26, 2015 10:09 AM  

Leo, Iran is also in a neighborhood with people who would like to see them dead. They are Shias surrounding almost entirely by Sunnis who don't like them. They also have the Israelis with nukes pointed at them. Their rhetoric vis-a-vis Israel began at a time when they were the only "Islamic" country in the region. Everybody else was some flavor of Arab socialist except the Saudis who are...whatever they are. So they tried to burnish their Islamic credentials by trying to shame their neighbors about their failure to do anything for the Palestinians. The Israelis and the Iranians have been at it ever since.

Of course, the fact the the U.S., the UK, and the Israelis trained the Shah's intelligence service, SAVAK and those guys used to disappear and torture people kind of means that the U.S., the UK, and the Israelis have kind of a bad reputation in Iran.

But like Vox says, the Iranians aren't stupid. They want the bomb for deterence. Notice we don't invade Pakistan. There's a reason and it has to do with plutonium and uranium.

Blogger horsewithnonick October 26, 2015 10:12 AM  

Alternate response to accusations of racism:
"You say that like it's a bad thing."

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:15 AM  

@4 Cataline Sergius
Are you sure this isn't a preamble for a drive to shovel them down to the Riviera?
----

I have no trust in our western leaders. But, if this were to turn out to have been on purpose to cull the combatants from the middle east, in prep for an invasion to keep them on their own side of the stone age, then that would be cool.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:20 AM  

@9 Josh
Winter is racis
---

I wonder if word has gotten out that they shouldn't eat the yellow snow yet?

Blogger Chris Mallory October 26, 2015 10:21 AM  

@59 "The constant chants of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" kinda give that impression."

Why are chants about "Death to Israel" any business of the US government or responsibility of the American tax payer?

How are the "Death to America" chants any different than anything printed by the NeoCons or Glenn Beck over the past 10 years or what you will read posted about Iran by any Faux Conservative on just about any message board?

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:22 AM  

@13 Mr.MantraMan
Crush the effectiveness of their rhetorical jab word of "racist" that mainstay of their propaganda efforts this problem would be solved before Xmas.

What does "racist" mean anyway?
---

Around here i've hear it used sort of like this:

I'll racist you down the skreet to the fleaq market.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:24 AM  

@16 Michael Maier
I just do not see where these evil idiots like Merkel can really believe their own bullshite.
---

There's nothing as sad as a smarty pants who's bought into their own bullshit, except for one who's somehow got power over other people.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 10:28 AM  

@19 VFM 188
Knock off the incorrect grammar and spelling, Michael Maier!

You be raciss! That was what you meant to convey. There. Fixed.
----

If they say racisssssss with a snake like S at the end, try and get them to say "Ka nama kaa lajerama." If they can't say it, then you know what we are dealing with.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 10:28 AM  

@59 White knight Leo:
And if the nations who wanted them wanted them for self-defense, I would be less inclined to argue. But I've seen plenty of evidence that Iran wants them *in order to use them*, not merely to buff themselves up. The constant chants of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" kinda give that impression.
North Korea. Care to explain?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 26, 2015 10:40 AM  

What is winter-chan a reference to? I tried googling it, but ended up with pointers to a linkedin account. The images, however, make me think it is some sort of anime thing.

Blogger DadOfTen October 26, 2015 10:46 AM  

@59. White Knight Leo #0368
Let's take a look at recent "rogue nations" that have developed nukes.

North Korea: bellicose, makes Iran look calm and friendly by comparison. Are you scared of them? I am not. Despite their rhetoric, they choose life. It doesn't look like they could produce a briefcase nuke. That is some crazy technology to be able to do it.

Pakistan: It was going to be the end of the world if they got nukes. Lunatics all. Despite their rhetoric, they choose life. Does anyone know if they can produce a briefcase nuke?

Are there other recent nuclear nations? I don't remember.

I am not so worried in the inland USA. Maybe the coasts should be worried. Better boat bomb detectors would be nice. But, I think rogue nations are scared that even if we didn't respond nuclear, we would wipe out any government that nuked us in less than a week using our Special Forces.

Europe should be much more worried. They're not worried enough to deploy forces, though they will cheer on US involvement because it is no cost to them.

Blogger Dago October 26, 2015 10:48 AM  

Guys go easy on WhiteKnightLeo,
You know cops can't have an IQ above 110 or so max.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 26, 2015 10:48 AM  

Now I want a nuke of my own, as a deterrent against Leo.

Blogger Random October 26, 2015 10:52 AM  

@74

In Japanese, the -san suffix is used to show respect. The -chan suffix is used with close friends, family, and indicates intimate fondness.

There is probably a different explanation, but I think it's like saying 'beloved winter'.

Blogger Engineer-Poet October 26, 2015 10:58 AM  

@72 For those of us who can't even figure out what language that is with Google Translate, can you elucidate?

@74 Perhaps a Google of "Ebola-chan" would be enlightening.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 26, 2015 10:58 AM  

This is interesting:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oe24.at%2Foesterreich%2Fchronik%2FOesterreicher-decken-sich-mit-Waffen-ein%2F209555400&edit-text=

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they were interviewing the "refugees" all of whom spoke excellent English and were highly educated: doctors, computer engineers, people seeking further education so they can get their masters or doctorate. The underlying assumption was that "of course we want these people in our country and they will be a benefit to the economy."

Fewer and fewer people are buying that.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 26, 2015 11:02 AM  

But it occurs to me that if you are highly educated in medicine or computer engineering and are multilingual and speak the language of the country you wish to immigrate to, why are you risking your life and spending thousands of dollars to illegally immigrate? The EU nations don't have any programs for useful people to apply to?

Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 11:04 AM  

'Now I want a nuke of my own, as a deterrent against Leo."

History suggests one day you will.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 26, 2015 11:06 AM  

For that matter, doesn't Australia want useful immigrants? If you have a useful skill and can get a job they will let you in. They don't want people looking to go on the dole though.

Blogger YIH October 26, 2015 11:08 AM  

@74. Ron Winkleheimer:
What is winter-chan a reference to?
My guess, it's a takeoff on last year's Ebola-chan meme.

OpenID Steve October 26, 2015 11:31 AM  

With 3,175 migrant deaths in 2015 vs 125 total Berlin Wall deaths, Angela Merkel has killed more people than any German leader since Hitler

As AM keeps doubling down on the Muh holocaust card, people will start to notice its a gay jewish defense minister and a former Stasi lesbian jewish Facebook monitor causing problems and start to see AH as self defense.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Germans-give-Hitler-actor-a-warm-welcome-421082

It would be a shame to leave a pleasant climate like that for the icy oblivion of Europe, right

The Puerto Ricans that collect social security disability for NO SPEAK ENGLISH would want no part of the US back when 7yo white boys worked in coal mines to help feed their families. K vs R style evolution.

welfare gravy train, then get underground jobs, so that they can send money back to family and fellow political beings

The worlds richest man Carlos Slims got that way by leeching off of every Mexican remittance thanks to his govt. enforced phone monopoly
-bgs

Blogger Matamoros October 26, 2015 11:33 AM  

Start sending immigrants back to their homelands and show it on television.

Even better would be showing the army and police shooting them for criminal trespass.

Refugees freezing - the Euros need to develop the "not our problem" attitude.

Blogger Student in Blue October 26, 2015 11:33 AM  

@Ron Winkleheimer
It's a reference to "Ebola-chan" from last year.

When the Ebola virus was kind of a thing, there was an artist who anthromorphized it, and the picture got passed around quite a bit jokingly calling her "Ebola-chan" (-chan being a diminuitive honorific in Japanese, labeling young or cute things. Kinda sorta like calling a Robert, "Bobby", but only vaguely).

Anyway, "Thanks Ebola-chan!" became a thing, because it was funny to treat it flippantly.

Blogger pdwalker October 26, 2015 11:44 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger pdwalker October 26, 2015 11:45 AM  

"Oh...the Islamics invading are frightful
but outside, the winter's delightful
and since they don't have enough clothes
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!"

"The Invasion shows no signs of stopping
and I've dug up Grandpa's guns for popping
to encourage the ragheads to go
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!"

"When we finally kick them out, right
How they'll freeze out in the storm
But if we set them all a-light
For the rest of their life, they'll be warm"

"The fires are slowly dying
the survivors are now a-flying
towards the borders they go
Let 'em Go! Let 'em Go! Let 'em Go!"

(with apologies to the original authors of "Let it Snow")

Blogger rcocean October 26, 2015 12:02 PM  

"And the hysteria about them is just weird."

Yep, but then the whole Christain Zionist thing is craziness on stilts.

OpenID Steve October 26, 2015 12:07 PM  

What does "racist" mean anyway? At this point it means that you won't willingly have sex with an HIV+ n166er.

It occurred to me that they should all be sent back to WHATEVER country they want to claim. Don't ask them for proof.

The destroying documents and "you cant send me back because you cant prove were I am from" might lead them to stay in the ash tray

they aren't even following Islamic doctrines about showing respect for your hosts

The aid given to them is considered jizya, they are way past the being nice to fool people part of islam.

Michael Sam says he's stepping away from football out of concern for his mental health.Let's see, crap CFL pay, Montreal climate

If you saw his combine time you would know he was walking away slowly.

@46Looking at that article that photo caught my eye.If I were to dress like that here I'd likely be (physically) attacked. No joke.

Not by blacks, I pull this out when people claim civilized Egypt was black."Let's take our cue about blacks from the inscriptions on a stele erected in Egypt by Sesostris III from about 3500 B.C. He said that blacks were utter cowards and would always retreat when attacked and would only attack when the enemy withdrew their attack. This is exactly how people today speak of blacks- that if you stand up to them, they'll back down. And they only attack when they think you are weaker or not paying attention or are an easy target or they have the numbers."
-BGS

Blogger James Dixon October 26, 2015 12:31 PM  

> History suggests one day you will.

Well, we're still probably at least 50 years away from that, so more likely his kids.

Blogger Krul October 26, 2015 12:34 PM  

"Thank you, Winter chan"

Too much

Blogger Nate October 26, 2015 12:45 PM  

"If you saw his combine time you would know he was walking away slowly."

bahahahahaha

Blogger Tom Terrific October 26, 2015 12:46 PM  

The UNITED States of America has not existed since around 1984. When there were only three sources of national news you could pretend the country was united. Anyone who disagreed with the consensus narrative could be ignored. Not anymore.

The only thing necessary for the political dissolution of the United States to become reality is for peor to begin moving to the territories that are most likely them - socially, politically, religiously - and then start voting for succession. Texas will probably start it since it specifically retained the right if succession in its Constitution. But many more states will follow.

I can also see these new countries banding together to form Confederacies with their neighbors to provide for the common defence.

Yet I also see them writing laws that protect their CULTURES from foreign invaders.

Look, if I can unfriend you on Facebook, why can't I unfriend you as my government?

Blogger Ostar October 26, 2015 1:03 PM  

@61 I've seen plenty of evidence that Iran wants them *in order to use them*, not merely to buff themselves up.
Vox: Please. They're not suicidal.

No - but significant numbers of them are religious fanatics - it is a theocracy after all. And people martyr themselves for Islam on a daily basis.
So when some Iranian leaders talk about destroying Israel and bringing the 13th Imam as their Islamic eschatology believes, I would give their own words a LOT of credence.

Blogger JohnR219 October 26, 2015 1:21 PM  

YIH: Canadian football is played during the summer. They can leave in the fall and go someplace warm.

Sam is a pussy...surprising since he doesn't like it.

Blogger James Dixon October 26, 2015 1:24 PM  

> So when some Iranian leaders talk about destroying Israel and bringing the 13th Imam as their Islamic eschatology believes, I would give their own words a LOT of credence.

Somehow I suspect they can't begin to get that many nukes. The most they might manage is destroying significant parts of half a dozen of the largest cities.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 1:40 PM  

@89 pdwalker

Awesome tune! I've been wracking my brain today trying to come up with something like that for the holiday sleigh ride song :P

Blogger Were-Puppy October 26, 2015 1:46 PM  

@95 Tom Terrific

We tried that once before, in case you forgot. I wish it could happen, but maybe we should wait until the army is full on women and trannies.

Blogger Rez Zircon October 26, 2015 2:14 PM  

If these invading migrants help the EU fall apart while there's still something left to salvage, they'll have performed a valuable service... now let's all wish for a Napoleonic winter...

As to nukes, show me a weapon the Middle Eastern fanatics have had their hands on and haven't used. They may not be suicidal, but they sure don't do well at judging consequences. (Then again, neither do most foreign policies...)

Blogger Unknown October 26, 2015 2:38 PM  

"If you saw his combine time you would know he was walking away slowly."

thread winner
-Boone Waxwell

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 4:06 PM  

So when some Iranian leaders talk about destroying Israel and bringing the 13th Imam as their Islamic eschatology believes, I would give their own words a LOT of credence.

And Israel talks about nuking Europe. "The Sampson Option". Should the US invade them too? Stop babbling. Everyone said the same nonsense about North Korea until they got the bomb too.

I pay as much attention to those who say Iran wants to immenantize the eschaton as those who say evangelical Christians do. It's ridiculous.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 4:09 PM  

Also, all you idiots are going to look like complete morons, again, when Iran gets nukes and doesn't use them. And then we'll remind you that you were so stupid that you actually wanted to hand power to the neocons again and invade another country again over nothing.

Do you never fucking learn?

History lesson: when people in the USA bang on the war drums, they are lying to you. In this case, it's particularly stupid because they're basing it on nonexistent FUTURE atrocities.

Blogger automatthew October 26, 2015 4:18 PM  

Also, all you idiots are going to look like complete morons, again, when Iran gets nukes and doesn't use them. And then we'll remind you that you were so stupid that you actually wanted to hand power to the neocons again and invade another country again over nothing.

I still think Jeff Sutton wrote The Programmed Man because he knew something.

Blogger Engineer-Poet October 26, 2015 4:20 PM  

@89 Doesn't scan.  Try this:

"Oh...the Muzzies in town are frightful
but outside, the cold's delightful
and since they all wear thin clothes
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!"

"Immivasion just isn't stopping
But Grandpa's guns still work for popping
the ragheads who just won't go
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!"

"When they're finally set to flight
How they'll freeze their butts out in the storm
But if we set them all a-light
For the rest of their lives, they'll be warm"

"The fires are slowly dying
the survivors now a-flying
Across the borders they flow
Let 'em Go! Let 'em Go! Let 'em Go!"

No apologies to the Tin Pan Alley authors who wrote the original.  It was hack-work then and still is.

Blogger Ostar October 26, 2015 5:21 PM  

@104 Vox
Also, all you idiots are going to look like complete morons, again, when Iran gets nukes and doesn't use them. And then we'll remind you that you were so stupid that you actually wanted to hand power to the neocons again and invade another country again over nothing.
Do you never fucking learn?

Wait - when did I or someone in this thread say we want war with Iran? Or support neocons? Being concerned about religious fanatics who have a history of suicidal bombings is not the same thing - attacking Iran to stop their nuke program would indeed be stupid. I never thought NK would use the bomb, but that's not to say it was a good thing they got one.

The difference is to me that Iran is an avowed enemy of the US, has been since the 70's before neocons existed, and has been killing Americans long since before the Iraq war.

So Vox, direct question please - do you think any sovereign nation has a right to have nuclear weapons?
And if so, do their opponents then have a right to try to deny or destroy their capability to build them?

Blogger Ostar October 26, 2015 6:04 PM  

The difference is to me that Iran is an avowed enemy of the US, has been since the 70's before neocons existed, and has been killing Americans long since before the Iraq war.

Alright, I concede you can say the above about Korea too. But Korea has China to keep it in line. Iran has no one.

OpenID Bob October 26, 2015 6:23 PM  

Is living life without the curse of white racist oppression so terrible of a fate ... the answer is obvious.

OpenID Bob October 26, 2015 6:26 PM  

Doesn't the Samson option presuppose that Israel has been deleted. Samson died.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 26, 2015 6:41 PM  

@107

Don't be so harsh on Vox, he's just having his batshit, Arian, Christ denying, time of the month again, the woman.

Blogger James Dixon October 26, 2015 7:10 PM  

> So Vox, direct question please - do you think any sovereign nation has a right to have nuclear weapons?

Not Vox, but yes.

> And if so, do their opponents then have a right to try to deny or destroy their capability to build them?

If they can do so, sure. Who's going to stop them, the UN?

> The difference is to me that Iran is an avowed enemy of the US, has been since the 70's before neocons existed, and has been killing Americans long since before the Iraq war. ,,, Alright, I concede you can say the above about Korea too. But Korea has China to keep it in line. Iran has no one.

Lots of people have been killing Americans for a long time. Also, It may have escaped your attention, but we actually fought a war against North Korea. We haven't against Iran. So tell me again; who has the greater grudge against us?

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 7:35 PM  

Vox, direct question please - do you think any sovereign nation has a right to have nuclear weapons?

Yes.

And if so, do their opponents then have a right to try to deny or destroy their capability to build them?

No, not if they are not at war with them.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 7:36 PM  

Doesn't the Samson option presuppose that Israel has been deleted. Samson died.

Yes, but Samson attacked Philistines, not people who had nothing to do with the conflict.

Blogger newanubis October 26, 2015 8:03 PM  

Bwahaha! Thanks,I needed that.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 26, 2015 8:17 PM  

@108 "since the 70's before neocons existed,"

The NeoCons spawned during the 1960's.

Blogger Danby October 26, 2015 8:23 PM  

@Ostar
do you think any sovereign nation has a right to have nuclear weapons?
And if so, do their opponents then have a right to try to deny or destroy...


rights? nations? What on earth make you think the legal regimen of rights has anything to do with nations? Nations have apabilities, interests, alliances, influence, but not rights.

A nation has just as many rights as other nations allow them to have.

Blogger newanubis October 26, 2015 8:25 PM  

Bwahaha! Thanks,I needed that.

Blogger Ostar October 26, 2015 8:26 PM  

@113 Vox And if so, do their opponents then have a right to try to deny or destroy their capability to build them?
No, not if they are not at war with them.

Iran - they pretty clearly consider themselves in a state of 4th Gen war with us and have for decades, so we should be using 4th Gen methods to deny or destroy their ability to build nuclear weapons. Not a direct attack.

North Korea - A state of War still technically exists there, since we only have an Armistice. Clinton dropped the ball on letting them get nuclear weapons - but again a direct attack was not warranted. 4th Gen methods should have been used, but I concede with them being a Chinese satellite our options were somewhat limited.

If on the other hand some nation we are not in a open or 4th Gen state of war with wants nukes, I agree they have the right, if they have the will and technical know-how.

Blogger Danby October 26, 2015 8:36 PM  

@119 Ostar
"Clinton dropped the ball on letting them get nuclear weapons"

North Korea's first nuclear test was in 2006. Nothing to do with Clinton by that point.
"- but again a direct attack was not warranted."
Which kind of undermines the whole point.
What action, short of actual acts of war, could we have done that would have prevented Iran getting the bomb? They already demonstrated the ineffectiveness of sanctions, and they had the wonderful example of what happens to non-nuclear anti-American regimes when we think we can get away with it

Blogger dfordoom October 26, 2015 9:32 PM  

Ron Paul went on record to complain about US efforts to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

Sounds like a sensible guy.

No country is truly safe from US aggression without nuclear weapons. Unless the US abandons its current policy of invading and/or destabilising every country it takes a dislike to then the only sane response by other countries is to obtain nukes. If the US is thereby prevented from pursuing these crazy policies there will be no more refugee crises.

The current "humanitarian crisis" is not the fault of Moslems. It is the fault of the US.

Blogger VD October 26, 2015 9:46 PM  

Iran - they pretty clearly consider themselves in a state of 4th Gen war with us and have for decades, so we should be using 4th Gen methods to deny or destroy their ability to build nuclear weapons. Not a direct attack.

No. We are not at war with them. Not even close. As a nation-state, you do NOT go to war without making sure you have the support of the people. If you can't get it, you don't do it. Period. Because, if you can't, you will lose one way or another.

OpenID Steve October 26, 2015 10:15 PM  

Yes, but Samson attacked Philistines, not people who had nothing to do with the conflict.

I guess Iceland is too far away for the Sampson option given that it actually put bankers in jail

OT: My review of the first episode of Super Coal Burner Girl, as bad as you thought with more majik negros than the movie The Martian + Female General ZOD + Devil Wears Prada Boss. This season of DR Who couldn't get worse with the ass kicking girl made immortal via alien tech stalking & outsmarting the Dr.
-BGS

Blogger Ostar October 26, 2015 10:28 PM  

Well Vox, I pray you're right, and that Iran doesn't use it's (now inevitable, thanks to Obama) nukes. Followed by the Saudi's nukes, and then many others.

@120 What action, short of actual acts of war, could we have done that would have prevented Iran getting the bomb?

We had a number of espionage tactics that were quite successful (like using Bluetooth to spread viruses) that were crowed over by the Obama admin, thus halting their effectiveness. And sanctions was hurting them - until the megacorps saw the profit to be made and started sidestepping them. Remember, Libya finally stopped seeking the bomb.
But it's all a moot point now.

Blogger Danby October 26, 2015 11:09 PM  

@Ostar
We had a number of espionage tactics that were quite successful (like using Bluetooth to spread viruses) that were crowed over by the Obama admin, thus halting their effectiveness.
"Act of war", do you know what that means. It certainly includes cyber attacks.

And sanctions was hurting them - until the megacorps saw the profit to be made and started sidestepping them.
Hurting them and effecting a change in policy are very very different things. Yes we hurt the economy, and thus the Iranian people. Which pain the government used as a rallying point to better unify its popular support and demonize the US.
Iran shares a several hundred mile border with Turkmenistan, as well as a few other former Soviet states, and is on a friendly basis with most of them, as well as with the regional powers, Russia, and China. There was no way to enforce sanctions without control of Turkmenistan and Afghanistan, which we did not achieve and could never maintain.

"Remember, Libya finally stopped seeking the bomb."
And... look what happened to Gaddaffi. Do you even begin to understand how much of a motivator that is for every other country on the face of the earth to get nukes?

Forbidding a major country county from getting nukes is pointless and debilitating. There is no way to win that war. and from a 4G perspective, the entire strategy is counter-productive. It alienates virtually every population in the world, outside of those who might feel directly threatened.

But it's all a moot point now.
It was a moot point before.

Blogger pdwalker October 27, 2015 12:12 AM  

@99 You're welcome.

@106 That's the beauty of collaboration. Together, we can build something beautiful. Yes We Can!

Blogger Ostar October 27, 2015 12:20 AM  

@125 I agree our stupidity in then attacking Libya made any other nuke stoppage impossible.

Iran is at war with us - in their view - and has been for decades, regardless of what the US professes. So I believe espionage and cyber attacks against their interests are fully justified.

Islam, including Iran, is the West's enemy, at war with us, and should be treated as such. Not attacked like in Iraq, but not supported economically nor allowed in our countries.
But as Vox said, without the support of the people of the West we are doomed to lose.

Blogger Engineer-Poet October 27, 2015 1:21 PM  

@126 When I think of anything that has to be fit to the timing of a tune, I prefer to say "Yes, we scan!"

<o-puns the door and lets himself out>

Blogger Akulkis October 27, 2015 2:20 PM  

"I live in Florida, I like it and I'm staying put.
But then again I'm not an ''Iraqi refugee''.
But I have to smile at the ''greeting'' you Finns have been giving ''Iraqi refugees''.
I could be wrong but isn't Finland a few thousand kilometers away from Iraq?
(Yeah, I can do globe). IIRC, it's also a hell of lot different in climate.
That's why I'm not coming to visit, I'd freeze my butt off, so chill out... Literally."

Q: Do you know what Finns do in the summer?

A: They have a picnic if it falls on a Sunday.

Blogger James Dixon October 27, 2015 2:45 PM  

> Islam, including Iran, is the West's enemy,

We're our own worst enemy.

Blogger Akulkis October 27, 2015 3:02 PM  

@Steve
"Stasi lesbian jewish Facebook monitor"

Uh... can you clarify the identity of the miscreant whom you are alluding to?

Blogger Takin' a Look October 27, 2015 5:07 PM  

That would be Anetta Kahane

A former Statsi Informer by the code name of "Victoria" who has dozens of "liquidations" under her belt.

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